[tw] Re: My TiddlyWiki Journey

2017-01-22 Thread Dmitry Sokolov 
Hi Rich and others,
sorry for being away from GGoups and missing your messages. The core of the 
TW knowledge network can be accessed here:
http://confocal-manawatu.pbworks.com/w/page/113574373/TiddlyWiki
The "Visual Taxonomy" link will open the same structure in the "graph view".

I am not sure why I am seen as discussed on "leaving Google Groups". 
According the "Transmedia" paradigm, I have to follow people to be visible 
and co-operative. It can be GG, FB, LI or any other platform for 
communication, but we still need a "single entry point" (a "Collective 
Memory") to "see a bigger picture", stop "reinventing wheels" and find the 
experts in particular fields of knowledge. LikeInMind, above, is used to 
prototype such a "single entry point" / Memory. It will be transferred into 
TW format as soon as P2P, multi-user and versioning are demonstrated / 
developed.

Now, when most of the resources are collected "under the same umbrella", I 
feel ready for efficient management of the development of P2P Collective 
Intelligence platform.

Your thoughts?
Cheers,
Dmitry

On Sunday, 15 January 2017 17:01:49 UTC+13, RichShumaker wrote:
>
> Dmitry
>
>> thank you for the great observations. Would you have an idea what was so 
>> attractive with TWC compared to TW5, or was it just a "market saturation"?
>>
>
> Response
> TWC met a need many people had and was then further developed to make it 
> even better.
>
> TW5 was created as a NEW product that followed HTML 5 standards.
> Because of that there was no migration from TWC it just needed to be NEW.
> So anything that is HTML5 TW could be used to work with that as a 
> standard, no need to rework the product to make it work as you so often do.
> Many amazing things have been created because of this fact that TWC 
> probably never would have been able to do effectively. 
>
> In regards to leaving Google Groups
> I am not sure how new you are Josiah except for a long time people were 
> debating leaving Google Groups.
>
> The general consensus was 'Why?' as it is 'Good Enough'
> Then most of the developer went to a development platform, GitHub, to do 
> most of their work.
> If you ask me this is where development is best served as you can easily 
> 'fork' something and go in your own direction.
> Or you can work with the people together.
> Or BOTH.
> And GitHub is designed for just such a project like TW5.
> Developers also use the Google Group, TiddlyWiki Dev.
>
> During the previous discussions of lets move from Google Groups everyone 
> was saying lets 'Build something Better and use that'
> Meaning Eat Your Own Dog Food.  TiddlyWiki is Google Groups.
> This allows the most flexibility as no one relies on anyone else as you 
> can create your own thing for you, and share.
> Do as much or as little as you want, when you want.
>
> Since that time people have been working on an infrastructure for TW5 to 
> do just that except it takes time to create something like this.
>
> So that is why I think most don't want to jump to any other platform as we 
> want to build our own or have our own.
> We outgrew Google Groups, and  we might outgrow 
> that too.
> If we had our own platform then we don't have to rely on the tools others 
> create as we can create our own and we won't outgrow it.
>
> Rich Shumaker
>
> On Saturday, January 14, 2017 at 6:01:57 PM UTC-8, Josiah wrote:
>>
>> Ciao Tobias
>>
>> To continue on that one point. I think you are right that I could go 
>> another way. Into a more honed environment. Though, if so, I'd more likely 
>> take it local with interested folk face to face if it got the steam up 
>> enough. 
>>
>> The question for me remains, and where we will probably forever tussle 
>> (so long as we GG), is whether differentiation requires segregation or not. 
>> IMO, GG won't serve anything that could balance those. BUT some other forum 
>> types, probably.
>>
>> So far you have intensified my existential ennui :-).
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Josiah
>>
>> On Thursday, 12 January 2017 08:43:32 UTC+1, Tobias Beer wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Josiah,
>>>  
>>>
 Over the last several months there has been a lot of e-pub discussion 
 (the fact you never read one I forgive you for and hope you will accept 
 the 
 example even though you know nothing :-). 

>>>
>>> When one is not around, they're not around. ;-) 
>>>
>>> My point? In a different type of forum it might well gel better. To get 
 beyond one demo. E-pubs have many shared issues that better collectivity 
 could help. TW could be a great e-pub format. Here we get splinters on it. 
 Real steps remain at the edge. IMO this happens because GG is inadequate 
 to 
 fostering anything other than transient emailing/posting.

>>>
>>> I don't think leverage is what you're after but rather *traction*, 
>>> traction and *support* for a very explicit *project*. Now, one might 
>>> argue that e-pubs can be a significant project to help push TiddlyWiki out 
>>> onto the big

[tw] Re: My TiddlyWiki Journey

2017-01-14 Thread RichShumaker 
Dmitry

> thank you for the great observations. Would you have an idea what was so 
> attractive with TWC compared to TW5, or was it just a "market saturation"?
>

Response
TWC met a need many people had and was then further developed to make it 
even better.

TW5 was created as a NEW product that followed HTML 5 standards.
Because of that there was no migration from TWC it just needed to be NEW.
So anything that is HTML5 TW could be used to work with that as a standard, 
no need to rework the product to make it work as you so often do.
Many amazing things have been created because of this fact that TWC 
probably never would have been able to do effectively. 

In regards to leaving Google Groups
I am not sure how new you are Josiah except for a long time people were 
debating leaving Google Groups.

The general consensus was 'Why?' as it is 'Good Enough'
Then most of the developer went to a development platform, GitHub, to do 
most of their work.
If you ask me this is where development is best served as you can easily 
'fork' something and go in your own direction.
Or you can work with the people together.
Or BOTH.
And GitHub is designed for just such a project like TW5.
Developers also use the Google Group, TiddlyWiki Dev.

During the previous discussions of lets move from Google Groups everyone 
was saying lets 'Build something Better and use that'
Meaning Eat Your Own Dog Food.  TiddlyWiki is Google Groups.
This allows the most flexibility as no one relies on anyone else as you can 
create your own thing for you, and share.
Do as much or as little as you want, when you want.

Since that time people have been working on an infrastructure for TW5 to do 
just that except it takes time to create something like this.

So that is why I think most don't want to jump to any other platform as we 
want to build our own or have our own.
We outgrew Google Groups, and  we might outgrow 
that too.
If we had our own platform then we don't have to rely on the tools others 
create as we can create our own and we won't outgrow it.

Rich Shumaker

On Saturday, January 14, 2017 at 6:01:57 PM UTC-8, Josiah wrote:
>
> Ciao Tobias
>
> To continue on that one point. I think you are right that I could go 
> another way. Into a more honed environment. Though, if so, I'd more likely 
> take it local with interested folk face to face if it got the steam up 
> enough. 
>
> The question for me remains, and where we will probably forever tussle (so 
> long as we GG), is whether differentiation requires segregation or not. 
> IMO, GG won't serve anything that could balance those. BUT some other forum 
> types, probably.
>
> So far you have intensified my existential ennui :-).
>
> Best wishes
> Josiah
>
> On Thursday, 12 January 2017 08:43:32 UTC+1, Tobias Beer wrote:
>>
>> Hi Josiah,
>>  
>>
>>> Over the last several months there has been a lot of e-pub discussion 
>>> (the fact you never read one I forgive you for and hope you will accept the 
>>> example even though you know nothing :-). 
>>>
>>
>> When one is not around, they're not around. ;-) 
>>
>> My point? In a different type of forum it might well gel better. To get 
>>> beyond one demo. E-pubs have many shared issues that better collectivity 
>>> could help. TW could be a great e-pub format. Here we get splinters on it. 
>>> Real steps remain at the edge. IMO this happens because GG is inadequate to 
>>> fostering anything other than transient emailing/posting.
>>>
>>
>> I don't think leverage is what you're after but rather *traction*, 
>> traction and *support* for a very explicit *project*. Now, one might 
>> argue that e-pubs can be a significant project to help push TiddlyWiki out 
>> onto the big stage more (and thus create some more leverage to do bigger 
>> proects ;-) but... and of course you agree, this place is a terrible forum 
>> to try and manage the ambitions of a TiddlyWiki e-pub project.
>>
>> At least, such a thing would require a propper project context. For me, 
>> atm that would be a github repo, since you can address all the nitty gritty 
>> detail from goals and requirements, to functional and technical 
>> specification all the way to voting for and implementation features through 
>> actual code and all that ...in a defined spot. But it takes for a lead 
>> developer (architect) to take on the job not only to understand the 
>> code-base, but to kind of manage the overall process, so people stay 
>> realistic of how to get from start to finish. If you want an even more 
>> "engaging" experience than a github repo can deliver, well, I don't know... 
>> you're trying to give life to a highly complex social experiment with a 
>> desired outcome... that's never quite a simple thing to pull of, no matter 
>> what the environment. Without some professional organisation, there's a 
>> good chance a bunch of voluntary, self-made coders and idea-generators will 
>> find it hard to form unity, but it's possible as we all know. OpenSource is 
>> a thing, it's

[tw] Re: My TiddlyWiki Journey

2017-01-11 Thread Tobias Beer 
Hi Josiah,
 

> Over the last several months there has been a lot of e-pub discussion (the 
> fact you never read one I forgive you for and hope you will accept the 
> example even though you know nothing :-). 
>

When one is not around, they're not around. ;-) 

My point? In a different type of forum it might well gel better. To get 
> beyond one demo. E-pubs have many shared issues that better collectivity 
> could help. TW could be a great e-pub format. Here we get splinters on it. 
> Real steps remain at the edge. IMO this happens because GG is inadequate to 
> fostering anything other than transient emailing/posting.
>

I don't think leverage is what you're after but rather *traction*, traction 
and *support* for a very explicit *project*. Now, one might argue that 
e-pubs can be a significant project to help push TiddlyWiki out onto the 
big stage more (and thus create some more leverage to do bigger proects ;-) 
but... and of course you agree, this place is a terrible forum to try and 
manage the ambitions of a TiddlyWiki e-pub project.

At least, such a thing would require a propper project context. For me, atm 
that would be a github repo, since you can address all the nitty gritty 
detail from functional to technical specification all the way to voting and 
implementation and actuall code and all that ...in a defined spot. But it 
takes for a lead developer (architect) to take on the job not only to 
understand the code-base, but to kind of manage the overall process, so 
people stay realistic of how to get from start to finish. If you want an 
even more "engaging" experience than a github repo can deliver, well, I 
don't know... you're trying to give life to a highly complex social 
experiment with a desired outcome... that's never quite a simply thing to 
pull of, no matter what the environment. Without some professional 
organisation, there's a good chance a bunch of freelance, self-made coders 
and idea-generators will find it hard to form unity, but it's possible as 
we all know. OpenSource is a thing, it's alive and it's kicking... but 
everyone doing it also knows its problems... the most prominent one being 
that that guy didn't show up for half a year: So what's that about? ;-)

Best wishes,

Tobias. 

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[tw] Re: My TiddlyWiki Journey

2017-01-11 Thread Josiah 
Ciao Tobias
 

> 1 - VERY difficult to gain leverage
>

> And what would you want or need leverage for? I like the humble nature of 
how this project unfolds.

Me too.

But humbleness per se isn't the leverage issue I meant. 

What I meant was that because of the way GG works its hard IF, like me, 
you'd like to see pattern. And having seen pattern, and felt into it, 
engage with it.

To make this concrete...

Over the last several months there has been a lot of e-pub discussion (the 
fact you never read one I forgive you for and hope you will accept the 
example even though you know nothing :-). 

My point? In a different type of forum it might well gel better. To get 
beyond one demo. E-pubs have many shared issues that better collectivity 
could help. TW could be a great e-pub format. Here we get splinters on it. 
Real steps remain at the edge. IMO this happens because GG is inadequate to 
fostering anything other than transient emailing/posting.

SO. My answer to you is: Leverage is good. Here is not good for it.

J.

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[tw] Re: My TiddlyWiki Journey

2017-01-11 Thread Josiah 
Ciao Dmitry

On Tuesday, 10 January 2017 02:08:56 UTC+1, Dmitry Sokolov wrote:
>
> Josiah, I know just one way of removing any scepticism. It's experiment 
> and practice.
> Here is the method of measuring "findability" of any topic on LikeInMind: 
> http://confocal-manawatu.pbworks.com/w/page/102426340/Findability%20Experiment
>

I find it incomprehensible. WTF does "The task is finding the Findability 
Modes 
 
page on LikeInMind . Total 
time of finding this particular page is measured." mean?
 

> "FYI, there are NO companies (corporations) HERE." - that's fine! I am 
> looking for a way of realising the P2PCI platform as soon as possible. 
>

Good.
 

> As soon as a map of intents and preferences is collected, we should be 
> able to decide what namely way to go.
>

Collected by whom? For what?
 

> Josiah, sorry for misreading your previous statements. Would you elaborate 
> more of your understanding and ideas on forums vs knowledge networks vs 
> personal memories. That was probably the topic I missed something critical.
>

The only thing I really thought important was grasping that Google Groups 
is inadequate because it lacks basic tagging. It lacks decent searching. It 
loses its own history rapidly. 

My analysis was NEGATIVE, not positive. I know what is NOT here that would 
help it if it were. I am less concerned about exact solutions. 

Right now there are TWO initiatives in play. One for Reddit. One for 
StackOverflow. IMO, either, either as additives or alternatives to here, 
would help practically improve things.
 


LiM is as messy as a human mind. What I know about my mind, for example, 
> that it can pull ideas from apparently nowhere, from the noise and mess of 
> my random associations and thoughts.
>

That is not yet a description of a system. That is what we all cognitively 
do, one way or another, all the time.

The point you are getting at, I think, is more about LIMINAL knowing. That 
is not so frequent. It is absolutely true that liminality---knowing at the 
edge---is not well addressed on most of the internet. 

New concept formation is a complex interaction between extant social, 
shared categories and emergent felt-knowing.

Articulateness, by definition, will be constrained by shared public 
language and categories. Its a push to change that. Especially when you 
don't yet quite know yourself what you are trying to say.



Your appeal to LiM is an appeal to engage with it, to help it. What I 
looked at is pretty unappealing to me at the moment. 

I think MY problem with it is it TOO REFRACTORY to my aims. Too much 
effort, for what?



Your talk of "mental states" I find confusing. 

I have a "mental state" as I write this. Once its on the net its "published 
words". 

The potential mapping between first person self-articulation and published 
words is, of course, a legitimate playground. But, as far as I can see, it 
leads nowhere without a FORMAT to engage through.

Best wishes
Josiah

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[tw] Re: My TiddlyWiki Journey

2017-01-09 Thread Dmitry Sokolov 
"You could not open MBTF because tiddlyspace is gone." - nice!
Guys, we need to speed up the development of P2P TW.
Your thoughts?
Thank you Birthe!!
Dmitry

On Tuesday, 10 January 2017 14:07:33 UTC+13, Birthe C wrote:
>
> Hi Dmitry,
>
> You could not open MBTF because tiddlyspace is gone.
>
>
> Birthe
>

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[tw] Re: My TiddlyWiki Journey

2017-01-09 Thread Dmitry Sokolov 
Josiah, I know just one way of removing any scepticism. It's experiment and 
practice.
Here is the method of measuring "findability" of any topic on LikeInMind: 
http://confocal-manawatu.pbworks.com/w/page/102426340/Findability%20Experiment
Please confirm what your experiment leads to the same or similar result, in 
both direct access to topics and following the "associative networks". If 
any topic can be found in seconds, in a manner similar to human memory, 
should those means providing those features be thought "an external memory"?
"FYI, there are NO companies (corporations) HERE." - that's fine! I am 
looking for a way of realising the P2PCI platform as soon as possible. 
Please let me know what organisational structure would make you feeling 
good at contributing to further development of TW platform. As soon as a 
map of intents and preferences is collected, we should be able to decide 
what namely way to go.
Josiah, sorry for misreading your previous statements. Would you elaborate 
more of your understanding and ideas on forums vs knowledge networks vs 
personal memories. That was probably the topic I missed something critical.
"Its NOT YET really an example. Its nearly as messy as here right now." - 
yes, indeed! LiM is as messy as a human mind. What I know about my mind, 
for example, that it can pull ideas from apparently nowhere, from the noise 
and mess of my random associations and thoughts. If you ask me to write 
down consistently all knowledge I have, I'd probably stack immediately. 
It's not there! :) Same with LiM. A lot of topics but nothing is visible 
without "thinking", without interaction with LiM. Only when I have an idea, 
I can zoom in/out the broader / narrow meaning on LiM, find what 
"resonates" and follow the "associative links". To my perception, LiM 
reflects the situation I can observe in my mind and in my surroundings: we 
can form the structures out from the chaos, mess and noise, and reuse those 
structures to navigate successfully from a problem to a known solution, 
from one "mental state" to another.
"The point is that things felt-known are expressed but don't get cognizance 
unless there is a congruent system for their reception." - absolutely! But 
that's too far ahead in our plans. Please see the IVAN Dimensions 
for more details. 
Currently, LiM is a collection of various points of view of different 
people, similar to Q sites. We are given a chance of listing through the 
options and selecting those which "resonate". With time, AI will be 
developed to help us with delivering the tiddlers as semantically close to 
our "cultural background" (cultural in a broader sense, as all the 
experience and memories learned previously), as needed to "resonate", 
understand and utilise those particular tiddlers ASAP, without spending 
extra time on understanding and "reshaping" of the content and solutions. 
But, that's too early to talk about. We need TW proven in reliable building 
of knowledge networks. Let's focus on that first?
"I think you are mixing up YOUR (WONDERFUL) aims with the actual reality 
here." - I will cite myself, sorry:
"Regarding the "Marketing, Mass Apps (e.g. e-pubs), Sub-project Threads 
(e.g. UI issues) etc" and other applications, I do not see any difficulties 
(because Anything Is a Tiddler 
) except a need 
in systematic building your own PVAN, for your self first of all. Only when 
published your ideas can be found / discovered and reused not only by you 
but by the TW team that is even more important due to the cumulative effect 
of knowledge." Indeed, where is the problem? I build my PVAN, and get 
result as soon as needed. My expectation is that your cognition works in a 
similar way, and you will be able to organise anything too, because Anything 
Is a Tiddler . 
:)
I believe, you are talking not just for fun but to prepare yourself for 
effective work in TW Community? I am here to hear your voice and think what 
would work best for you. If we have a common goal we will meet there. :)
Cheers,
Dmitry
On Tuesday, 10 January 2017 09:14:03 UTC+13, Josiah wrote:
>
> Ciao D et al
>
> On Monday, 9 January 2017 09:45:57 UTC+1, Dmitry Sokolov wrote:
> > LikeInMind is designed to support building Personal Associative Networks 
>  
> online. When published, it becomes an "external memory" of a person. 
>
> So. Let us see it in action :-) 
>
>
> > Regarding the consensus, I don't think we need it. Agile style of 
> project development, I am trying to follow, is focused on solving the 
> problems within the frames of company's policies and standards.
>
>
> FYI, there are NO companies (corporations) HERE.
>
>
> > I can't agree with "there is NO reliable public way to form a KNOWLEDGE 
> NETWORK other than,

[tw] Re: My TiddlyWiki Journey

2017-01-09 Thread 'Birthe C' via TiddlyWiki 
Hi Dmitry,

You could not open MBTF because tiddlyspace is gone.


Birthe

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[tw] Re: My TiddlyWiki Journey

2017-01-09 Thread Dmitry Sokolov 
Tobias, sorry, was not able to open MBTF. I will try again later.
The "merge-conflicts" is a must in a multi-user environment but I see no 
"complexities of resolving merge-conflicts" at a well established 
authentication system, theoretically. On PBWorks, for example, I can easily 
distinguish my editions from editions of other users. Theoretically again, 
I would expect a notification from the system on the changes of a page I 
edited previously. The system would allow me reading the document only if I 
accepted the changes (made by others, as a bunch), federate the last 
version for me, or reverse to my last edition. PBWorks is highlighting the 
changes by comparing any selected versions. I don't see the theoretical 
limitations for TW doing the same.  Unfortunately, I did not even touch 
this subject, versioning and authentication, yet and can't really advise 
anything. That's where I would appreciate help and contribution from the 
experts in this field. Please think of me as a theorist with a few years of 
experience in the "findability" field. Saying that, I am not going to stop 
my efforts in developing this knowledge missing from LikeInMind, when and 
if that becomes a barrier to the development of the product.
One of the methods of versioning seems being relevant here: one way 
synchronisation with retaining the "conflicting" versions in a "backup" 
directory. In other words, no deletion of (versions of) tiddlers allowed. 
The author and end users, their memory and practical experience are the 
criteria validating the integrity of tiddlers. If something went wrong, a 
user must have the means of "rolling back" reliably any number of changes. 
Ideally, he should be able to select a piece of text of his concern and see 
who and when introduced those changes. Theoretically, according to IPFS 
protocol, that should be possible. Practically, that is one of the critical 
features of the future methods of protection of the Intellectual Property: 
PBIIMS 
Proposal . 
Tobias, Dear All, thank you for the job you are doing. I believe, together 
we will be able to work out the practical ways of realising the future we 
deserve.
Cheers,
Dmitry

On Tuesday, 10 January 2017 01:10:08 UTC+13, Tobias Beer wrote:
>
> Hi Dmitry,
>
> Without getting into too much detail atm, thank you for your very well 
> thought out response which quite put your motivation(s) into perspective.
>
> You are indeed quite ambitious and I now see that you are rather good at 
> communicating a clear perspective, perhaps leading to workable future 
> frameworks, in terms of organisation as well as technological focus.
>
> Of course, you can imagine that *multi-user* is a buzzword that probably 
> popped up as early as the first year of TiddlyWiki being around.
>
> With the end of TiddlySpace and plenty silence around TiddlyWeb, the most 
> advanced collaborative technology for TiddlyWiki didn't quite manage to 
> sprout, if only for its gardeners having gone and focus on other fruits to 
> harvest.
>
> So, at this point, it seems, we've gone back to square 1 for now in terms 
> coming to new forms of TiddlyWiki-driven collaboration. You can still see a 
> remnant of previous collaborative efforts involving inclusion of bags of 
> tiddlers in the context where needed in something like: 
> http://mbtf.tiddlyspace.com, knowing that local centers were able to 
> include the master documentation and branch of from there, extend it as 
> needed... while the master documentation would be able to list and display 
> local variations of itself.
>
> I am in no position to say wheter TWederation has the potential of filling 
> the collaboration gap or not.
>
> Possibly, a node.js & GitHub driven workflow, especially for a developer 
> community seems to make for a splendid TiddlyWiki based collaboration 
> platform, including versioning, and conflict resolution via merges, etc... 
> with the master being publicly accessible for consumption, for example... 
> somewhat similar to TiddlyWiki.com. But, of course, this type of workflow 
> is hardly apt for the general public, or so it seems, for now. but perhaps 
> it actually isn't. There once were some tests regarding a GitStore 
> implementation... you know, storing tiddlers in GitHub directly, from 
> within TiddlyWiki. But you can imagine the complexities of resolving 
> merge-conflicts, should they arise.
>
> As for a P2P web of tiddlers, it appears we've only just started exploring 
> this kind of technology, e.g. via BeakerBrowser 
> . How this helps advance multi-user 
> applications, at this point, is more or less unknown.
>
> Anyway, there's solving all the little challenges which I think is what 
> this group is doing, mostly, every day. But perhaps it's time to consider 
> the more long term challenges a bit more frequently and a bit more 
> strategically, not just from a development point of view, in terms of

[tw] Re: My TiddlyWiki Journey

2017-01-09 Thread Josiah 
Ciao Tobias

You are one bright spark.

I am very happy to reply because you make explicit what the stakes are.

I will do it in bits.

Josiah, x

On Saturday, 7 January 2017 14:34:11 UTC+1, Tobias Beer wrote:
>
> Hi Josiah,
>
> I hope you allow me to respond to your assessments from a more critical, 
> call it provocative perspective.
>  
>
>> 1 - VERY difficult to gain leverage
>>
>
> And what would you want or need leverage for? I like the humble nature of 
> how this project unfolds.
>
> 2 - Difficult to form sustainable sub-groups pursuing one thread.
>>
>
> There are plenty reasons for (sub)groups not making "it", whatever "it" 
> is. Different or unclear, or mostly individual goals and ambitions and 
> divergent capabilities and perspectives. You see, it may be honorable to 
> have great ambitions, but there's a point when pushing an agenda really 
> isn't what people are after, and when that's more disturbing than actually 
> contributing.
>
> 3 - VERY difficult to form consensus on anything.
>>
>
> When and where do you need concensus? Make decisions, do what you can and 
> want and for the rest of it, let go... or find someone who can and wills 
> it. And let it be manageable, actionable steps, not mere abstract ideas 
> with no practical leverage.
>  
>
>> Some folk do make note of threads and go back to them. But there is NO 
>> reliable public way to form a KNOWLEDGE NETWORK other than, basically, your 
>> own powers of reading & memory.
>>
>
> Precisely, so try your best at it, personally. Find your sweet spot, 
> things you like and know best. However, making everyone follow whatever 
> your potentially best way for everything is will hardly ever work, unless 
> that is something that practically works well for most people, processes, 
> environments, technologies that are simple and inviting enough for people 
> to join and keep participating.
>
> While it may not be easy to find everything, the google groups are an easy 
> environment to join and dive in whereas Github provides more formal, 
> advanced ways of participation.
>
> Google groups are not a knowledge base, we got that. You want one, to 
> cover all of the TiddlyWiki experience? Well, have your try, but try not to 
> expect too much. It's easy to see all the missing pieces to a puzzle you're 
> trying to solve. Well, the game is not about finding the missing pieces and 
> point out just how missing they are, but to solve the puzzle, if you care. 
> To me, it's really more of a narrative, of words spoken here and there, 
> tricks applied, methods learned, things achieved. I don't need a TiddlyWiki 
> for Dummies book to cover every topic I never needed, I'd rather be part of 
> a community that doesn't treat you like one and helps you meet your ends, 
> insofar as everyone's capable.
>
> At this point, TiddlyWiki is not the communication platform around 
> TiddlyWiki. There are places people talk about it and find useful 
> application for this little Swiss Army knife of atomic knowledge mgt. See, 
> if you want some Google for TiddlyWiki, to make it easy to find stuff,  and 
> also some more social chatter to have people talk and find solutions to 
> problems, answers to questions, like-minded people for projects, and what 
> not... perhaps TiddlyWiki itself isn't the right place to look for it, and 
> neither is this group.
>
> If you find a better environment for your own ambitions, that's fine. But 
> don't go around reminding people how much they're missing. If they think 
> it's worth a shot and compelling, then you better make it so. Should you 
> get there, telling others how much better that is and much worse it is 
> whatever they do... never works. Let me repeat: never works. Youtube was 
> successful because people liked to watch videos and it turns out to also 
> create and share those. Please do invent a TiddlyTube people find useful to 
> share and create rich content for. But just don't go to the google groups 
> and say how much better reddit is or go to vimeo to comment on how youtube 
> is so much more... who knows what.
>
> My point is that EMERGENT properties are become severely inhibited. And my 
>> overall impression is that if you are not a keen *bricoleur * 
>> it can be hard work.
>>
>
> I feel no inhibition and I think that is so because I keep my expectations 
> as well as ambitions adequate. Why waste much energy on abstract, 
> theoretical ideas one thing perhaps doesn't cater for while igoring all the 
> brilliant ways you can make good use of it? You see, not sure what 
> everyone's ambitions are, but if you feel like you can't make it, there are 
> two options: either your ambitions are way out of your league or the steps 
> you take to get there are unfit, or too big, have you procrastinate from 
> one minute to the next, so you can't manage. So, chunk 'em up, do the 
> little steps and if it turns out you're not getting anywhere it's time to 
> let go.

[tw] Re: My TiddlyWiki Journey

2017-01-09 Thread Josiah 
Ciao D et al

On Monday, 9 January 2017 09:45:57 UTC+1, Dmitry Sokolov wrote:
> LikeInMind is designed to support building Personal Associative Networks 
 
online. When published, it becomes an "external memory" of a person. 

So. Let us see it in action :-) 


> Regarding the consensus, I don't think we need it. Agile style of project 
development, I am trying to follow, is focused on solving the problems 
within the frames of company's policies and standards.


FYI, there are NO companies (corporations) HERE.


> I can't agree with "there is NO reliable public way to form a KNOWLEDGE 
NETWORK other than, basically, your own powers of reading & memory".


THAT is SERIOUS MISREADING of what I wrote. I was ONLY referring to Google 
Groups. IF you are interested in knowledge networks its essential to read 
accurately.


> LikeInMind (LiM) is the example.


Its NOT YET really an example. Its nearly as messy as here right now.

> Could you tell me more about "My point is that EMERGENT properties are 
become severely inhibited. And my overall impression is that if you are not 
a keen *bricoleur * it can be 
hard work.", please?


Emergent properties are ubiquitous. The point is that things felt-known are 
expressed but don't get cognizance unless there is a congruent system for 
their reception. 


> Regarding the "Marketing, Mass Apps (e.g. e-pubs), Sub-project Threads 
(e.g. UI issues) etc" and other applications, I do not see any difficulties.


I think you are mixing up YOUR (WONDERFUL) aims with the actual reality 
here.


Best wishes

Josiah

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[tw] Re: My TiddlyWiki Journey

2017-01-09 Thread Tobias Beer 
Hi Dmitry,

Without getting into too much detail atm, thank you for your very well 
thought out response which quite put your motivation(s) into perspective.

You are indeed quite ambitious and I now see that you are rather good at 
communicating a clear perspective, perhaps leading to workable future 
frameworks, in terms of organisation as well as technological focus.

Of course, you can imagine that *multi-user* is a buzzword that probably 
popped up as early as the first year of TiddlyWiki being around.

With the end of TiddlySpace and plenty silence around TiddlyWeb, the most 
advanced collaborative technology for TiddlyWiki didn't quite manage to 
sprout, if only for its gardeners having gone and focus on other fruits to 
harvest.

So, at this point, it seems, we've gone back to square 1 for now in terms 
coming to new forms of TiddlyWiki-driven collaboration. You can still see a 
remnant of previous collaborative efforts involving inclusion of bags of 
tiddlers in the context where needed in something like: 
http://mbtf.tiddlyspace.com, knowing that local centers were able to 
include the master documentation and branch of from there, extend it as 
needed... while the master documentation would be able to list and display 
local variations of itself.

I am in no position to say wheter TWederation has the potential of filling 
the collaboration gap or not.

Possibly, a node.js & GitHub driven workflow, especially for a developer 
community seems to make for a splendid TiddlyWiki based collaboration 
platform, including versioning, and conflict resolution via merges, etc... 
with the master being publicly accessible for consumption, for example... 
somewhat similar to TiddlyWiki.com. But, of course, this type of workflow 
is hardly apt for the general public, or so it seems, for now. but perhaps 
it actually isn't. There once were some tests regarding a GitStore 
implementation... you know, storing tiddlers in GitHub directly, from 
within TiddlyWiki. But you can imagine the complexities of resolving 
merge-conflicts, should they arise.

As for a P2P web of tiddlers, it appears we've only just started exploring 
this kind of technology, e.g. via BeakerBrowser . 
How this helps advance multi-user applications, at this point, is more or 
less unknown.

Anyway, there's solving all the little challenges which I think is what 
this group is doing, mostly, every day. But perhaps it's time to consider 
the more long term challenges a bit more frequently and a bit more 
strategically, not just from a development point of view, in terms of 
code-base that is. How and possibly where that may unfold, we have yet to 
see.

Best wishes,

Tobias.

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[tw] Re: My TiddlyWiki Journey

2017-01-09 Thread Dmitry Sokolov 


Sorry taking that long to reply. I think, Thomas, Rich and Tobias are 
talking about the same, and I can can write just one message covering all 
the topics above.

Thomas,

It's great that you are interested in marketing TiddlyWiki platform!

If we think it's a good time to grow into a (non-profit social?) 
enterprise, for example, we should start thinking and acting as an 
enterprise. The main idea behind this enterprise could be volunteering for 
whatever roles are required. As soon as TW Project gets traction and 
funding, those positions would be transformed into the jobs.

TiddlyWiki Vacancies 
 list is just 
created. I am happy to consult and manage development of the Findability 
and Discoverability for Reuse 

 
functionality but would appreciate someone else taken the role of a manager 
of the project. I believe, the role of TW Director is not disputable. I 
would appreciate Jeremy Ruston 
 
agreed with this position. I think, Thomas Elmiger 
 
will be happy with the "Marketing" position. The ideas are recorded at the 
TiddlyWiki 
Intents Map .

To realise our current and future ideas, we need a person who would focus 
on management of funding for the project. CrowdFunding 
 could be one of the 
options here.

>From my experience, a business plan is viable only when the core values of 
participants coincide with TiddlyWiki Users Experience 
. At the 
moment, I am willing to contribute my expertise in "findability", as a 
consultant. Apparently, we have the marketing and coding covered. 
Fundraising and a few more positions are missing. I will try to push in all 
those missing positions but my time resources are also limited.

Ideally, we need to research the business models of Mozilla or other open 
source software. Orion Health 
, for example, offers 
customisation, development, service, maintenance and support to their 
solutions. If TW users express this kind of interest to fill the gaps in 
the business model, it will be viable. If not, then not. We may need to see 
also the history of Mozilla, for example. How did they startup and 
developed? Currently, I am at the stage of collecting information (initial 
stage of collective intelligence) for decision making, ASAP. I would 
appreciate participation and help. The sooner the information is collected, 
the higher our chances of smooth and fast startup.

 

Rich,

thank you for the great observations. Would you have an idea what was so 
attractive with TWC compared to TW5, or was it just a "market saturation"?

I think, we are in the same boat regarding the TiddlyWiki Users Experience 
. Would 
you help me with figuring out what is missing from the page, what are our 
potential users and what are their expectations? Ideally, we'd need to 
realise what our "market segment" is the biggest and focus on it first. The 
alternative strategy could be decided on what 

Minimal Viable Product 
 could be and 
focus on it's development first of all.

"TW5 has not really had that same spike even though there are many TW5 
applications that are amazing." can well be that an integrity of a 
functionally product may have more value for the end users than a 
collection of amazing but separated tools hard to manage.

Rich, thank you for your support. I am personally at the stage of 
collecting information about TW platform and community. Please feel free to 
join and participate in any way you find valuable and interesting for 
yourself.

 

Dear Josiah,

I am sharing your feelings about the Google Groups: Knowledge Network vs 
Forums 

.

LikeInMind is designed to support building Personal Associative Networks 
 
online. When published, it becomes an "external memory" of a person. When a 
number of Personal Virtual Associative Networks 

 
(PVANs) are collected in the same Unified Conceptual Space 
, their 
nodes of similar sense can be found / discovered and merged into Sense 
Domains 
. 
This theory is based partially on AI methods of semantic

[tw] Re: My TiddlyWiki Journey

2017-01-07 Thread Tobias Beer 
Hi Josiah,

I hope you allow me to respond to your assessments from a more critical, 
call it provocative perspective.
 

> 1 - VERY difficult to gain leverage
>

And what would you want or need leverage for? I like the humble nature of 
how this project unfolds.

2 - Difficult to form sustainable sub-groups pursuing one thread.
>

There are plenty reasons for (sub)groups not making "it", whatever "it" is. 
Different or unclear, or mostly individual goals and ambitions and 
divergent capabilities and perspectives. You see, it may be honorable to 
have great ambitions, but there's a point when pushing an agenda really 
isn't what people are after, and when that's more disturbing than actually 
contributing.

3 - VERY difficult to form consensus on anything.
>

When and where do you need concensus? Make decisions, do what you can and 
want and for the rest of it, let go... or find someone who can and wills 
it. And let it be manageable, actionable steps, not abstract ideas with no 
practical leverage.
 

> Some folk do make note of threads and go back to them. But there is NO 
> reliable public way to form a KNOWLEDGE NETWORK other than, basically, your 
> own powers of reading & memory.
>

Precisely, so try your best at it, personally. Find your sweet spot, things 
you like and know best. However, making everyone follow whatever your 
potentially best way for everything is will hardly ever work, unless that 
is something that practically works well for most people, processes, 
environments, technologies that are simple and inviting enough for people 
to join and keep participating.

While it may not be easy to find everything, the google groups are an easy 
environment to join and dive in whereas Github provides more formal, 
advanced ways of participation.

Google groups are not a knowledge base, we got that. You want one, to cover 
all of the TiddlyWiki experience? Well, have your try, but try not to 
expect too much. It's easy to see all the missing pieces to a puzzle you're 
trying to solve. Well, the game is not about finding the missing pieces and 
point out just how missing they are, but to solve the puzzle, if you care. 
To me, it's really more of a narrative, of words spoken here and there, 
tricks applied, methods learned, things achieved. I don't need a TiddlyWiki 
for Dummies book to cover every topic I never needed, I'd rather be part of 
a community that doesn't treat you like one and helps you meet your ends, 
insofar as everyone's capable.

At this point, TiddlyWiki is not the communication platform around 
TiddlyWiki. There are places people talk about it and find useful 
application for this little Swiss Army knife of atomic knowledge mgt. See, 
if you want some Google for TiddlyWiki, to make it easy to find stuff,  and 
also some more social chatter to have people talk and find solutions to 
problems, answers to questions, like-minded people for projects, and what 
not... perhaps TiddlyWiki itself isn't the right place to look for it, and 
neither is this group.

If you find a better environment for your own ambitions, that's fine. But 
don't go around reminding people how much they're missing. If they think 
it's worth a shot and compelling, the you better make it so. Should you get 
there, telling others how much better that is and much worse it is whatever 
they do... never works. Let me repeat: never works. Youtube was successful 
because people liked to watch videos and it turns out to also create and 
share those. Please do invent a TiddlyTube people find useful to share and 
create rich content for. But just don't go to the google groups and say how 
much better reddit is or go to vimeo to comment on how youtube is so much 
more... who knows what.

My point is that EMERGENT properties are become severely inhibited. And my 
> overall impression is that if you are not a keen *bricoleur * 
> it can be hard work.
>

I feel no inhibition and I think that is so because I keep my expectations 
as well as ambitions adequate. Why waste all much energy on abstract ideas 
one thing perhaps doesn't cater for while igoring all the brilliant ways 
you can make good use of it? You see, not sure what everyone's ambitions 
are, but if you feel like you can't make it, there are two options: either 
your ambitions are way out of your league or the steps you take to get 
there are unfit, or too big, have you procrastinate from one minute to the 
next, so you can't manage. So, chunk 'em up, do the little steps and if it 
turns out you're not getting anywhere it's time to let go.

However, if you're serious about some TiddlyWiki marketing, have your try. 
Find an ecosystem to work it and people who care to join. Possibly, 
overloading this group with a bigger project like that wouldn't be a 
meaningful approach. Some two years ago the *TiddlyWikiDocs* group was 
created to provide a more focused entry point to topics around 
documentation. There was some

[tw] Re: My TiddlyWiki Journey

2017-01-07 Thread Josiah 
Ciao Thomas, Dmitry & all

I have commented at length on the deficiencies of Google Groups in previous 
threads. THE MAJOR issue with it is is its near immediate loss of history.

IMO this has a partly veiled, but, none the less extreme, negative effect 
in SCALING. If you can't easily find and organise you own history of 
interest it becomes ...

1 - VERY difficult to gain leverage.

2 - Difficult to form sustainable sub-groups pursuing one thread.

3 - VERY difficult to form consensus on anything.

Some folk do make note of threads and go back to them. But there is NO 
reliable public way to form a KNOWLEDGE NETWORK other than, basically, your 
own powers of reading & memory.

My point is that EMERGENT properties are become severely inhibited. And my 
overall impression is that if you are not a keen *bricoleur * 
it can be hard work.

IMO, if this situation were improved questions like Marketing, Mass Apps 
(e.g. e-pubs), Sub-project Threads (e.g. UI issues) etc would likely gain 
a  clearer place and likely to gain TRACTION.

As is the history of THIS thread itself will shortly be lost.

Best wishes
Josiah




Thomas Elmiger wrote:
>
> ... I got the same impression as you: 
> ”TW has a great team of technically skilled experts but probably no 
> marketing and product management specialists.“ ...
>
 

> As a marketing specialist I have many ideas concerning communication 
> around TW … but like everyone else I lack resources to realize this or to 
> contribute other marketing activities to the project. So I focus on my own 
> small everyday projects and try to be helpful here and there
>

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[tw] Re: My TiddlyWiki Journey

2017-01-06 Thread RichShumaker 
Welcome Dmitry,

1 > 0 is a concept that GaryVee discusses.
Doing something is better than doing nothing.

TW Classic had a spike in the user base when a version of TW was married 
with Getting things Done, Monkey Getting Things Done if memory serves me 
correctly.
TW5 has not really had that same spike even though there are many TW5 
applications that are amazing.

I believe that building something that others use with bring more people 
faster than anything else.

I look forward to seeing and hopefully helping with what you are creating 
using TW5.

Rich Shumaker

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[tw] Re: My TiddlyWiki Journey

2017-01-05 Thread Thomas Elmiger 
Hi Dmitry

Let me throw in some thoughts here. Following Hangout 102 I got the same 
impression as you:
”TW has a great team of technically skilled experts but probably no marketing 
and product management specialists.“ Reading your last posts here I think you 
have gathered a good overview of the TW ecosystem in very short time.

As a marketing specialist I have many ideas concerning communication around TW. 
For example I would love to write some books and let TW play a role there, a 
”TiddlyWiki for Dummies“ and a fictional thriller … but like everyone else I 
lack resources to realize this or to contribute other marketing activities to 
the project. So I focus on my own small everyday projects and try to be helpful 
here and there. 

Many open source projects are operated by companies today. The last example I 
know of is TYPO3 (a very popular CMS system in Europe). They moved from 
crowd/association to company structure in 2016 and funded TYPO3 Inc. Mozilla is 
a company with over 500 payed employees in 30 countries … so aiming this high 
seems very ambitious ;–) Of course it is a good example for many things because 
we all know at least Firefox. 

Dmitry, you mentioned ideas for making a commercial product based on TW, maybe 
you could give us some hints about your business plan? Just curious …

Have a great time!
Thomas 

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[tw] Re: My TiddlyWiki Journey

2017-01-05 Thread Dmitry Sokolov 
Today I participated in a Hangout 102. See the list of recorded hangouts 
here: TiddlyWiki Hangouts. 

My impression was that TW has a great team of technically skilled experts 
but probably no marketing and product management specialists. My feeling is 
that the vast majority of our potential customers are computer literate but 
extremely busy people. Learning something new is a pain for them. TW (as a 
product) must be oriented to users with very basic computing experience, at 
about MS Office (no scripting, no programming!) level.
Same applies to the current TW users who would be interested with entering 
this fascinated World of Coding. TW documentation and tutorial requires 
more structuring and more FDR (Findability / Discoverability for Reuse). 
When anything can be found with ease, the (learning / technical) barrier to 
participation will drop, and TW Community would have more chances of 
attracting more volunteers with even higher product and project management 
skills.
Otherwise, TW is extremely good. I am looking forward to transferring my 
knowledge network, 30,000+ nodes, on TW ASAP.
Cheers,
Dmitry

On Tuesday, 3 January 2017 13:47:12 UTC+13, Dmitry Sokolov wrote:
>
> Hello All,
> my name is Dmitry.
> I am new to the TiddlyWiki World.
> I just found out that I am not alone here. :)
> There are many people who either recently joined, or just no good in 
> programming.
> I thought, a thread like this is missing from this great forum on one of 
> the best wiki's I've seen, TiddlyWiki. :)
>
> My plan is to start writing on my experience of starting with TW, in use 
> and development.
> I hope this exchange of ideas will be a guideline for other newcomers who 
> would like to contribute but just not sure in what way that would be 
> possible.
>
> A few of "W" questions:
> Who is Dmitry?
> - a developer of knowledge networks, a way of interconnecting relevant 
> bits and pieces of information into sensible structures. Once connected, 
> each chunk of information can be found or discovered in a few seconds. Each 
> of the Authors, Participants and Contributors can be found as fast as their 
> Topics of interest, to be accessed already as experts in their particular 
> fields of knowledge. That's how "We Connect People by Connecting Their 
> Knowledge".
>
> What are the Intents?
> - to transfer the LikeInMind Knowledge Network from PBWorks to a P2P Web 
> platform. 
>
> Why TiddlyWiki?
> - TiddlyWiki is apparently the best platform for the task, for a number of 
> reasons to be discussed later.
>
> What's Next?
> - follow and participate, share your information, knowledge and 
> experience, see how the knowledge network is growing, help with building it 
> and see your threads of knowledge in the overall picture of the World.
>
> Just to keep a track between platforms, this thread is interconnected with 
> the textual page on LikeInMind:
>
> http://confocal-manawatu.pbworks.com/w/page/114199798/My%20TiddlyWiki%20Journey
> as well as graphical on DebateGraph:
> http://debategraph.org/Stream.aspx?nid=460606=bubble=focus
>

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[tw] Re: My TiddlyWiki Journey

2017-01-03 Thread Dmitry Sokolov 


Today I went through just one thread: TW5 Is there a single, concise 
upgrade HowTo anywhere 
.
 
However, it was extremely thought provoking and resulted in a number of 
nodes created and modified, below.


TiddlyWiki Change Request 

 
page is created. Easy Access to Known Solutions TiddlyWiki 
,
 
HTML and JavaScript Containers for TiddlyWiki 

 
and No Coding by TiddlyWiki Users 

 
were added.

Classic Parser Plugin Demo 
 is added 
to the list of TiddlyWiki Plugins 

.

TiddlyWiki Users Experience 

 
is added to the TiddlyWiki Development 

 
page.

TiddlyWiki Criticism 
 
now includes No Support of TiddlyWiki Classic 

, 

Updating TWc to TW5 

 
can now be found at the TiddlyWiki Administration 
,
 
as well as directly accessed via the Direct Access to Topics Bar 

 
at the SideBar panel to the right from every page on LikeInMind.


I can see Frustration From Learning Coding By TiddlyWiki Users 
,
 
from lack of quick access to particular information, lack of 
TiddlyWiki Backward Compatibility 
,
 
etc.


Thank you for your interest in my journey.

Please join me jogging around and help when you see me making the circles. 
:)

It would be great, for example, if we could start connecting dots, 
visualising and adding whatever is being missed by many. I think, 
TiddlyWiki Change Request 

 
may need your attention at this time. Should it be linked to a page on 
GitHub?


Cheers,

Dmitry

On Tuesday, 3 January 2017 13:47:12 UTC+13, Dmitry Sokolov wrote:
>
> Hello All,
> my name is Dmitry.
> I am new to the TiddlyWiki World.
> I just found out that I am not alone here. :)
> There are many people who either recently joined, or just no good in 
> programming.
> I thought, a thread like this is missing from this great forum on one of 
> the best wiki's I've seen, TiddlyWiki. :)
>
> My plan is to start writing on my experience of starting with TW, in use 
> and development.
> I hope this exchange of ideas will be a guideline for other newcomers who 
> would like to contribute but just not sure in what way that would be 
> possible.
>
> A few of "W" questions:
> Who is Dmitry?
> - a developer of knowledge networks, a way of interconnecting relevant 
> bits and pieces of information into sensible structures. Once connected, 
> each chunk of information can be found or discovered in a few seconds. Each 
> of the Authors, Participants and Contributors can be found as fast as their 
> Topics of interest, to be accessed already as experts in their particular 
> fields of knowledge. That's how "We Connect People by Connecting Their 
> Knowledge".
>
> What are the Intents?
> - to transfer the LikeInMind Knowledge Network from PBWorks to a P2P Web 
> platform. 
>
> Why TiddlyWiki?
> - TiddlyWiki is apparently the best platform for the task, for a number of 
> reasons to be discussed later.
>
> What's Next?
> - follow and participate, share your information, knowledge and 
> experience, see how the knowledge network is growing, help with building it 
> and see your threads of knowledge in the overall picture of the World.
>
> Just to keep a track between platforms, this thread is interconnected with 
> the textual page on LikeInMind:
>
> http://confocal-manawatu.pbworks.com/w/page/114199798/My%20TiddlyWiki%20Journey
> as well as graphical on DebateGraph:
> http://debategraph.org/Stream.aspx?nid=460606=bubble=focus
>

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[tw] Re: My TiddlyWiki Journey

2017-01-02 Thread Dmitry Sokolov 
Thank you Birthe

*,*the key words resonated with me were "It's really hard to suggest a 
generic discovery path."
I will try to follow the "knowledge networking" discovery path while 
posting here.

As the "silver bullet" was not found, let's make it! :)

The words of Tobias are important and added to the Getting Started with 
TiddlyWiki Development 

 
page.
Two more links are already there. I will start building the knowledge 
network by systematically reading this resources first: 

http://tiddlywiki.com/dev/ while keeping guidance from Tobias in mind.

I looks like a journey towards TW metalanguage (API?) to me. :)


Cheers,

Dmitry

On Tuesday, 3 January 2017 14:47:43 UTC+13, Birthe C wrote:
>
> Hi Dmitry,
>
> My name is Birthe. I started using TWclassic in autumn 2011 and TW5 in 
> august 2013. TW5 was in the beta phase and constantly changing. A very 
> learning experience.
>
> How to learn tiddlywiki? I think Tobias Beer explained it perfectly here: 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/1Y0_2a5bypY/afOP_haYDwAJ 
>
> That will be true no matter who we are and what background we have. The 
> difference is the time it takes and how far we get ;-)
>
> *I am the slow and limited kind*. If some of you will tell me, that you 
> have not felt frustration and pulled out hair at times, I simply will not 
> believe you.
>
> I love to see other peoples examples. Learn to identify the tiddlers you 
> will need to import to "steal" a functionality and have it in your own  
> wiki. Little by little getting an idea, where you would need to tweak to 
> change it a little for your own purpose. Being a Dane I have also learned a 
> lot translating some of the tiddlers I imported. Make a mistake and it just 
> doesn't work. If it work and everything visible is translated, you did it 
> in the right spots.
>
> Do not focus solely on your own wish to create something fantastic in the 
> smallest timeframe.. Test the stuff that gets published. There is a lot to 
> learn from that also. Really there is a great chance of you learning faster.
>
> Users of the same kind as myself I would advice to take their own notes of 
> what they do and how in  their own language. Not all documentation is 
> easily read by non programmers, but we know ourselves what and how we 
> understand things.
>
> Learning from others every day, this group is a generous group.
>
>
> Birthe
>

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[tw] Re: My TiddlyWiki Journey

2017-01-02 Thread 'Birthe C' via TiddlyWiki 
Hi Dmitry,

My name is Birthe. I started using TWclassic in autumn 2011 and TW5 in 
august 2013. TW5 was in the beta phase and constantly changing. A very 
learning experience.

How to learn tiddlywiki? I think Tobias Beer explained it perfectly here: 
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/1Y0_2a5bypY/afOP_haYDwAJ 

That will be true no matter who we are and what background we have. The 
difference is the time it takes and how far we get ;-)

*I am the slow and limited kind*. If some of you will tell me, that you 
have not felt frustration and pulled out hair at times, I simply will not 
believe you.

I love to see other peoples examples. Learn to identify the tiddlers you 
will need to import to "steal" a functionality and have it in your own  
wiki. Little by little getting an idea, where you would need to tweak to 
change it a little for your own purpose. Being a Dane I have also learned a 
lot translating some of the tiddlers I imported. Make a mistake and it just 
doesn't work. If it work and everything visible is translated, you did it 
in the right spots.

Do not focus solely on your own wish to create something fantastic in the 
smallest timeframe.. Test the stuff that gets published. There is a lot to 
learn from that also. Really there is a great chance of you learning faster.

Users of the same kind as myself I would advice to take their own notes of 
what they do and how in  their own language. Not all documentation is 
easily read by non programmers, but we know ourselves what and how we 
understand things.

Learning from others every day, this group is a generous group.


Birthe

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[tw] Re: My TiddlyWiki Journey

2017-01-02 Thread Dmitry Sokolov 
I know TiddlyWiki for a number of years. However, the easiness of the 
PBWorks platform was the barrier for even considering any sort of 
transition, until recently.

Recently, about a month ago, I received a signal of potential commercial 
application of wikis if realised on P2P Web principles. One of the students 
expressed his interest in taking this challenge as his summer project. I 
thought, it would be beneficiary to apply his knowledge of HTML, CSS and JS 
rather than learning something new. A brief analysis of currently available 
wikis gave me almost no choice: TiddlyWiki.

We collected information on the TW platforms 
 
available. TWederation 
 seemed 
being the most promising for our efforts and time to be invested.


I also started capturing "the breath" of TW community 
, 
and found, to my surprise, that very similar intents are being expressed 

 
in this mailing list too.

My situation at the moment:
- invitations to participate in the project and co-ordinate our efforts are 
sent to the key players I was able to visualise to the date: 

Jeremy Ruston 
, Paul 
Frazee, Jed Carty, Daniel 
 and Simon Baird. 


- TiddlyWiki knowledge network 
 
initiated and being filled with content.

- my attempt to participate in TWederation development on my own failed.

The latter can be resolved by started learning by myself, or, ideally, by 
teaching received from my senior and more experienced experts and 
colleagues, fellows of TiddlyWiki Community.


Here is my situation on 3 January, 2017.


I am looking forward to your suggestions, fellows TWers.


Thank you beforehand,

Dmitry

On Tuesday, 3 January 2017 13:47:12 UTC+13, Dmitry Sokolov wrote:
>
> Hello All,
> my name is Dmitry.
> I am new to the TiddlyWiki World.
> I just found out that I am not alone here. :)
> There are many people who either recently joined, or just no good in 
> programming.
> I thought, a thread like this is missing from this great forum on one of 
> the best wiki's I've seen, TiddlyWiki. :)
>
> My plan is to start writing on my experience of starting with TW, in use 
> and development.
> I hope this exchange of ideas will be a guideline for other newcomers who 
> would like to contribute but just not sure in what way that would be 
> possible.
>
> A few of "W" questions:
> Who is Dmitry?
> - a developer of knowledge networks, a way of interconnecting relevant 
> bits and pieces of information into sensible structures. Once connected, 
> each chunk of information can be found or discovered in a few seconds. Each 
> of the Authors, Participants and Contributors can be found as fast as their 
> Topics of interest, to be accessed already as experts in their particular 
> fields of knowledge. That's how "We Connect People by Connecting Their 
> Knowledge"
>
> What are the Intents?
> - to transfer the LikeInMind Knowledge Network from PBWorks to a P2P Web 
> platform. 
>
> Why TiddlyWiki?
> - TiddlyWiki is apparently the best platform for the task, for a number of 
> reasons to be discussed later.
>
> What's Next?
> - follow and participate, share your information, knowledge and 
> experience, see how the knowledge network is growing, help with building it 
> and see your threads of knowledge in the overall picture of the World.
>
> Just to keep a track between platforms, this thread is interconnected with 
> the textual page on LikeInMind:
>
> http://confocal-manawatu.pbworks.com/w/page/114199798/My%20TiddlyWiki%20Journey
> as well as graphical on DebateGraph:
> http://debategraph.org/Stream.aspx?nid=460606=bubble=focus
>

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