Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Yeah, they cannot completely open up the old Source engine due to the middleware. Would be interesting if Source 2 is all in-house.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
> Debian's kernel by default ships without the potentially non-free kernel bits Does Debian actually use the Linux-libre scripts to deblob their kernel? Or do they have their own in-house solution? Also, is Debian's de-blobbed kernel (after Squeeze) effectively the same as Linux-libre?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
It's not the same scripts, and there's one difference in outcome: Debian just removes the proprietary firmware, leaving in error messages telling you the names of the firmware files, while Linux-libre replaces those names with some slightly stylized version of "DEBLOBBED" (I want to say either "*DEBLOBBED*" or "/* DEBLOBBED */", but I'm not sure). There's also an unfortunate side-effect of the way Linux-libre does it where it becomes impossible to install these firmware blobs without modifying the source code and recompiling.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Valve could liberate the Source engine and provide paid support for game developers easily, they could still earn a LOT of cash.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
I didn't quite say we shouldn't talk about proprietary software. That's really taking it out of context. I said we shouldn't talk about playing specific proprietary games (any specific one(s)). Particularly on a free software forum like this. It's quite hypocritical. Talking about specific proprietary games is encouraging others to play those games. jxself does have a particularly negative opinion of Debian. I think stretching that to the rest of the people on the forums is a bit of a stretch. It's accepted Debian isn't doing everything right and it's the primarily reasons people here are using Trisquel over Debian. Debian is both better and worse compared to other distributions. Debian is better than Ubuntu or Linux Mint in that it does enable people to avoid non-free software, but it's worse than Trisquel or Parabola GNU/Linux-libre in that it does offer it as an option.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
People seem to have a negative opinion on Debian because they offer a "non-free" repository that you can easily not use. I guess the same goes for the "restricted" and "multiverse" repositories for Ubuntu which contain the non-free bits. Kernel wise, Ubuntu will include the bits from upstream that the Linux Libre team does not like. Debian's kernel by default ships without the potentially non-free kernel bits, but you can add them if needed.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
In another note speaking of games, this one guy did a comparison between Ubuntu 15.04 and Windows 10 and the new Source 2 engine in DOTA 2 performed better on Ubuntu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM8qXbJqMvs=1 I know its all non-free and all with the game, platform, and firmware, but I hope some of you can see why they may want to game on GNU/Linux instead of Windows. Windows 10 is a spy machine and some people just want to play games.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Yeah, people would still spend hundreds of dollars on gun skins on CS:GO or TF2 no matter if the game was libre or not.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Yeah, people would still spend hundreds of dollars on gun skins on CS:GO or TF2 no matter if the game was libre or not.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Yeah, people would still spend hundreds of dollars on gun skins on CS:GO or TF2 no matter if the game was libre or not.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Well, i believe it is a free software hatred by major companies like apple and eletronic arts, but everone is entitled to an opinion.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
tWell, i was talking about the original build engine,wasn't i?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Sorry, I thought Remedy changed the original Build's license to a libre one.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Hi, I love playing games. But I have a problem, some game runs with low fps like Nexuiz, cuz fully libre systems just not enough for playing some games. My fully libre laptops are Macbooks 2,1. So, for play some games I must to use my not fully libre systems: i5 3570k 4000hd, i7 3840QM 4000hd. Here no libre BIOS/UEFI/EFI and all backdoored CPUs.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
"I just think that if less people did it and swallowed their pride for the greater good of a project, that we would have better quality free software code." People say this so much but whenever anyone sits down and tries to do this, nobody agrees on what project to focus on as everyone has different preferences. I feel like it's a pointless thought, though I'd like to know what projects you have in mind that could specifically use this?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Many game companies like EA and Rockstar HATE Free software so badly, They dont even release their games for GNU/Linux (for Rockstar, i think this is true, but i may be wrong). Some companies release their game engines as free software, Like Id Software's Old ID tech engines and Ken-Silverman's Build engine (technially non-free, Because it's free for non-commercial use only.) There is some nonfree developers like Valve who Embrace GNU/Linux and even make a Distro. Digital (Restictions) Management is extremely bad for freedom Lovers. I agree with that. What if your favourite game is non-free? Do you find a GNU/Linux version of the nonfree game, or you settle in for a Free-Software clone like minetest, Openarena, Etc.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
I guess this is why some of us are Free-Software Diehards!
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
I don't know why there aren't any nonprofit game developers that develop games with libre engines. By "non-profit" I mean they make money, but the primary goal is their mission and it could be lobbying to make cracking DRM legal and reverse engineering game engines.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
I really doubt it's because of something other than Windows and gaming consoles being so popular...(i.e. it's Money and nothing more than that if you ask me).
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
To be fair, I clearly suck at publicity. I need to improve on that. As of today, there have been just over 3,000 visits to ReTux's contribution page. That's not very many. An established publisher wouldn't have this problem.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
I think he can be forgiven for misunderstanding.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
You seem to have a counter argument for everything don't you? :-) I just don't see the point in continuously having to ask money from people again and again through multiple rounds of funding. That's how you start to irritate your backers and they just want to you to release the damn thing already.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
I get what you mean, I see free software supporters as a spectrum thing instead of a binary false dichotomy. There are are people that are dependent on non-free software and can't afford the switching costs of spending downtime to learn something like Blender, but appreciate the free software philosophy and then there's people that install Coreboot and everywhere in between. While I don't have all non-free software purged from my computer, I have my fullest respects to people like you and moxalt and the people at FSF that really stick to their guns. Especially with the FSF video on User Liberation, I watched it and the first thought that came to my mind was "Phh, I bet they payed a guy to make this and he used the Adobe flash animator" and I was pleasantly surprised to find the sources for that video and that's something worth admiring. That said, I do plan on experimenting with Trisquel and I would even build a KFSN4-DRE Workstation and install Coreboot on it and document my experiment.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
"I just don't see the point in continuously having to ask money from people again and again through multiple rounds of funding. That's how you start to irritate your backers and they just want to you to release the damn thing already." Yeah, if the people running the project are horrible and can't effectively plan and are always running out of money. "Oh, I know I said $20,000 would be enough but I was wrong and now need an additional $20,000 and then I'll be able to finish it. Oh, now I need $20,000 more but this really is the last time I promise." That shows poor planning and execution as I said.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Well, you do see collaboration on big projects, but that tends to be by multiple corporations who have a vested interest. Something that comes to mind is the Vulkan graphics project. It is happening because all these companies want a better graphics stack and become less reliant on DirectX. The nice thing about Vulkan is that GNU/Linux games will not be second class citizens to their Windows ones. Free or not.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
"Let's say you pay for tickets to go to a concert or live standup or sketch comedy. That guy off the street who didn't pay shouldn't have the right to view it as they do not have the right to do so." However, it's legal and a common task for fans to upload videos of concerts and standup acts. You'll find a massive amount of them on Youtube. "hey created something for you and provide the best method to share with you so they can have the income to continue to create in the future." If putting excessive fines on someone (and, perhaps, a prison sentence or two) for sharing art is the "best method [...] so they can have income" then that would be, perhaps, alright. But it isn't the best method so they can have income, nor is it the only method. For movies? Most films get a very good profit from being in movie theatres-- film companies could survive without even releasing to stream and DVD! Merchandise also is a great way to make a profit-- have you even seen Despicable Me 2's merch?! Merchandise makes a profit because a lot of people have seen the movie-- the best way to make the film available to more people and make a larger mech profit is to allow non-commercial distribution of the film. There are also people that prefer to have a nice DVD (Or a $200 "extra-special" DVD for die-hard fans)-- these people wouldn't die out because, in their eyes, MP4s just aren't the same as DVDs. For TV shows? Mostly the same. But also, adverts. Under the hypothesized copyright system of "non-commercial distribution allowed," derivatives would still be illegal. The TV show could release it's digital formats with adverts actually in the video, so that when you download it there would be short commercial breaks in the media's file. Since users can't remove them legally, you could still sue the living heck out of people that remove commercial breaks and put the non-commercial-ed versions on The Pirate Bay or some such thing. Not the best or most ethical outcome, but way better than what we have today. For music? Mostly the same, too. Concerts, CDs, signed stuff, merch, digital copies. For smaller artists, donations are also an option. For games? Offering online services for the game, like multiplayer, leaderboards, etc. (Hell, you could sell hats for use on the online server.) Physical copies of the game (And again, $200 uber-mega-special editions for fan-fans), and merch. For smaller devs, donations are also an option. Also, selling the game itself online, and not providing a gratis download. There could also be a customer support "DRM" sort of thing. Upon purchasing the game, you get a key to make an account for the online server, and this allows you customer service you couldn't get without the key. Server hosting for less centralized games (Think Minetest or Minecraft) is another way the devs could profit. Perhaps a partnership with a server hosting company for an ad on their page.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Can you please rephrase this post to make it understandable? It sounded like something interesting.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
I'm no web design expert, so forgive my ignorance. can't the N°1 and 2 points be replaced by Wordpress or similar? About offering the source code for a fee: I remember the guys at Ardour doing that. But I wouldn't separate it from buying the program. I think it's best to educate people to compile the program for themselves. After all, the compiled package can be compiled from a slightly modified source. About the watermark: if it's very well hidden (or there are several instances of it), it could "maybe" work as an identifier. But then what? confront the offender? After saying he's sorry, then what? What I'm saying is I wonder if it's effective. The creators of Frogatto seem to have a good model.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
"There is no need for the conditional tense now that Cloud Imperium Games' crowd funding campaign has raised $89 millions to develop Star Citizen: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals; Ssshhh... we're not allowed to point to stuff like this because it's clearly not possible for free games to raise large sums of money. :)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
"Like Id Software's Old ID tech engines and Ken-Silverman's Build engine (technially non-free, Because it's free for non-commercial use only.) " http://wiki.eduke32.com/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Questions Eduke32 is GPL. Also, you have forks of Eduke32 for Redneck Rampage. And , more awesome, you have a Blood reimplementation for Eduke32.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
"And I just want to thank you for making it easy to buy hardware that will work with Linux-libre" Same here!
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
A successful libre game is really few and far in-between if you are going the crowd funding route. Like I said in a previous post, the most successful ones have a name or property tied to it. Shenmue 3 was able to bypass 2 million dollars within hours of the crowd funding release. You would think that more people would have a greater piece of mind by funding a FLOSS project because they could go "oh I paid for this game and I get to look at the code and own it in some way" but the majority of people really couldn't give a damn. All they want is the final game and the experience. "With the same (wrong) argument, you could state that free software will never penetrate the server market. Wait..." That comment kinda irked me a little. It brings in to a prior discussion where software, when used as a tool, should always have a FLOSS version/alternative. I use nginx for my sites and I am glad that I don't have to pay for server software. It is a utility and I can deliver information without restrictions of a licensing structure like one Microsoft would employ. But for games... I dunno. People seek out games for entertainment value and it differs than server software where one may use it for various purposes and may even modify the code to serve their specific goal.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Btw, did you happen to see this today? http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/09/ubuntu-convergence-x-apps-running-mir-video-2
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
You make a good argument, but I'm not convinced we're taking the wrong action here. Everybody here is running some non-free software out of necessity. Should we stop helping people to move away just because they're not capable of jumping to Trisquel in one step? I can't accept that.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
> You're shipping non-free software if people want so. Should it not be an individual's freedom of choice to choose what the fuck they run on their machine? If people want to run non-free software, they will do so. If you start imposing YOUR will on other people and telling them what to run, say, think or do, you DON'T seem to understand the concept of freedom or free software. ThinkPenguin has been active in promoting libre software, helping to free software and has made contributions back to the community. They only provide the freedom of choice where the user is responsible for making an informed choice about what they want to run or use. Yes, we may not like the fact that people run non-free software or choose to do so when they are fully informed, but it is still important to give people a choice and try to fully inform them about what they are doing and what the consequences may be.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
> " i for one while pay 50 bucks for games that are DRM free" I read that and that's the part that was the problem.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
1.) Rich? I hardly would say that a price fixated by the developer ($1, $10) for source code makes it "rich people only" if the consumer is willing to out of of their way to support your game. You ask people to crowd fund a game, which has NO guarantee that the game is ever going to be finished and you support on blind faith. Having an incentive for something that may not be necessary (but still available) to people in an effort to support the developer is more concrete as you get actual source code and not a promise. Like I said, a developer could have the source for free but also offer it for a small fee if they choose to. It is up to the developer and then up to the consumer to buy that game. 2.) You should be able to share the code for the game like any other free software code. The artwork part of it would not be allowed to share as it is for that user own. What would work? Splitting it into parts instead of one big package/binary? Lets say when you buy and then download the game you pretty much get two parts of the game. The first part is the engine and the second part is the artwork/video/sounds. Those two are kept separated for licensing purposes, but will talk to each other. This may not be the most ideal situation as you probably want to keep them all together, but what better solution do you have? All I'm getting is the typical question of ethics because of "I can't have what the other guy has" attitude even if the other guy paid for the right to the artwork.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Now you know why people don't use "free software" and instead use "open source" because it confuses between free as in price and free as in freedom. Maybe from now on, I should just use libre so you guys can stop twisting my words. :-) I always meant free as in "freedom" and in relation to the assets, I meant that the assets don't have to be free (once again as in freedom) and not "gratis" as in giving it away. But if these assets are free as in freedom, they will find their way to be free as in "gratis" if people want to distribute your work even if you want them to pay for it. That is why I was pondering solutions in keeping the artwork locked down so the artists and programmers behind a free (as in freedom) game can get compensated in some way for their work.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Why was this downvoted? I linked to a site and provided basic information. Whatever.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
That's what they seem to be saying.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Let's revisit this topic when Mir gets released with either 16.04 or 16.10 and compare to Wayland.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Check my comment above: https://trisquel.info/en/forum/do-drm-free-games-matter-even-if-game-non-free#comment-77905
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
"Crowdfunding is supposed to help with getting the initial capital. What happens when you need more money to deliver your project and sustain it for years? Are you going to alienate and piss off your original investors if you cannot meet those demands?" If it turns out that the initial crowdfund goal was not sufficient to deliver the project, that reflects poor planning on the project leadership (oops, we underestimated the full cost of this) and not a fundamental flaw in the crowdfunding project. Crowdfunding's only one idea but could also be used for a second round of funding too. Also there's subscriptions. This is especially good if it's a project that needs ongoing support. I think the subscription model was used for Ryzom. As I've said, you're limited only by your imagination. The pre-order system's also been used and as I pointed out earlier has some similarities to crowfunding such that there may not be a reason to draw much difference between the two.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
One example is https://www.thinkpenguin.com/gnu-linux/penguin-pocket-wee-gnu-linux-desktop "Default configuration:Ubuntu Compatible with Microsoft Windows 7" If Chris was 100% to free software like he preaches on here and fights with people, he wouldn't offer Ubuntu or even mention it. Same goes for Windows 7. The reality is that he owns a business and pays his bills like the rest of us. If he just sticks with Trisquel only systems and isn't making money off of it, he goes out of business and sells tacos on the street or caves in to the demands of the market and offers Ubuntu. I find it funny that all of you blasted me for having an alternative to the free software games problem by not requiring artwork to be libre/free culture while still keeping the engine libre, but then you have people like Chris who sell computers with Ubuntu. LOL.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
"Would you please open your eyes? It's obviously _not_ working. I wished too that it would work and a lot of people could make a living from developing great free software games; reality is different though." And this means that I can't "like to see more people doing what onpon4 is doing and developing free games commercially"??? Good to know that people not doing this means I can't want it to be done. I can't believe I've been so blind all this time. Thanks for opening my eyes! *rolls eyes*
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
It's not about the money. It's about reality. Sometimes to move forward you need to take baby steps. * We don't tell users what distribution to get *. We ask them what distribution would you like? And if they don't know they get a 'default'. The default is based off the assumption they don't know anything about GNU/Linux. Which is a very fair assumption. A good percentage of our customers are coming from Microsoft Windows land. You don't want people returning systems because they think "GNU/Linux" is too hard for them. It's best to get them onto something which is less likely that they'll run into a problem with and position them so they'll be able to run with a 100% free software operating system later.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
i going to say this and be done with it- games are not evil- i am, tired of people saying video games cause voilence but im sorry they dont but the linux cummonity needs a game devolper team that runs an GPL engine and only focus on games for linux but untill then i for one while pay 50 bucks for games that are DRM free- i do think we need to get an open source team started to make games that are AAA titles and kick sony!
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
1. Your not following what I'm saying. If you waste time trying to get people to understand your view point who aren't listening you might as well be talking to a brick wall. It's better to spend time addressing the problems which are holding people back from being able (due to lack of competency with technology) to adopt a 100% free software operating system. There are more people who will listen and get it- but not be able to figure it out. 2. We ship with whatever operating system a user chooses. Our main goal is to get people off of hardware dependent on proprietary software. Long term I think we'll see more Trisquel users as a result. I'm pretty confident we already have more Trisquel users today than ever before because of the work we've done at making it easier to adopt/market/etc. What you don't want to do is put non-tech savvy users in front of Trisquel as there first distribution. Particularly not without a lot of one-on-one hand-holding. It won't work to there advantage. It'll be off-putting and they will get the idea "GNU/Linux is hard" and that it's not adoptable by non-tech savvy users. If you put them in front of a distribution that isn't 100% free there is a high chance it'll work for about 50-80% of the population today. From there people will adopt Trisquel and they will have an easier time doing so because there is less to figure out compared to any 100% proprietary system. If they fail at it at this point they'll still be better off because they'll only likely be returning to something that isn't 100% proprietary (be it Linux Mint, Debian, Ubuntu, or some other distribution which includes some proprietary components). To get my point across how many people here went from a completely proprietary operating system to a 100% free one? I bet there isn't a single user that didn't first adopt a distribution which contained some proprietary software. The next question I have is how many people here went from a computer with non-free BIOS to one with a free BIOS and no other non-free software? The answer to this question is likely zero. Everything is a processes and we should focus on what can be done to move things forward. Not waste time talking to a brick wall. If your talking to people who are listening- that's not wasting time.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Your entitled to that position, but its contradictory to movement's position. Non-free software is unethical. If you don't agree then it's not the right place for you.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
ok i dont know what happen to my last post but i have heard this From JupiterBroadcasting a lot and i agree we need an os standerd amd pratice - recently had to email FSF for some ? and i will never do it again- i will not be treated like an idoit. we need to rethink how we approach new users better
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Those artists are trying to make money from live performances because that is the only way for them to make their own money these days. Gone are people buying $20+ records (ever since Napster) and instead people would rather download them on their smart phone, stream via a site like Spotify or Pandora, or outright take the .mp3 and .flac files from a Torrent site. If they could still make money from the "old way" of selling records, there would be less of a need to push t-shirts at a concert at inflated prices or turn to crowd funding. The reality is that many of these artists do have bosses and need those bosses at the record companies to not only throw them chump change once in a while, but to also market them and keep them relevant via singing at award shows or the Super Bowl. I'm totally for an artist going solo in creating their own legacy and getting paid via donations on their site or through something like Patreon. But most of those times, those artists have a big fanbase due to a media conglomerate giving them a chance and making them relevant in the first place.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
This is the point I was trying to make in my original post. It is stupid that the engine is closed source, but it is ok for the artwork to be not "gratis" if you are trying to sell an actual game. Some games like Team Fortress 2 are free to play but the only thing you pay for is cosmetic items. You may want a hat or sunglasses to add flair to your character. These don't give you an advantage since they are cosmetic and you can playing the game without buying anything.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
@t3g-i agree but the Linux community needs to agree on what is what- i recently email the FSF about couple of things and they rubbed me the wrong way. i'm sorry but we need to have change in the big boy playground so us little guys (newcomers} can also play and help premote libre free sofware. like Chris Fisher from Jupiterbradcasting has says. we need to clean up our act and get rid of distro that are the same thing then big boy like microsfot will get worried. but untill we do the microsfot and apples fan will be cussing and making fun of us.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
I just want to say thank you for contributing all these years the Linux-Libre repository you maintain. It's really helped *a lot* of users get on board with newer hardware *still being sold*. Without that there would be a good chunk of people here who wouldn't be on Trisquel today.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Thank you for your support.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
> How is the approach different from Debian? It's a bit difficult to wrap my head around this. We're not a distribution and only attempting to draw people away from non-free operating systems. Including partly non-free ones. > Encouraging people not to even talk about this software does not coexist > with your softer stance when it comes to shipping OS. Don't you agree? No.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
I keep on seeing crowdfunding being mentioned as the best solution, but from what I've seen, only the games that have a big name behind them or franchise get the full funding. I'm talking about Shenmue 3, Mighty Number 9, and that Castlevania spinoff. All of these success stories result in the developer exceeding the goal and part of the reason why they get that is they entice you with supporting a platform that caters to non-free games. Want it on PS4 in addition to the PC? Help them reach another 2 million dollars and they will remove that roadblock. That's why crowdfunding shouldn't be seen as the backbone of your project. Like many things, the popular kids always get the success and continue to have that success leaving no breathing room for others. Crowdfunding is supposed to help with getting the original capital. What happens when you need more money to deliver your project and sustain it for years? Are you going to to alienate and piss off your original investors if you cannot meet those demands?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Sorry, I was distracted by your incorrect usage of "your" and "you're". :-) Anyways, I softballed some solutions to the free engine debacle so hopefully it was helpful.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
I've been on these forums 4+ years and besides Ruben packaging a Trisquel ISO every few years, no one here has really contributed anything to the free software cause of any significance. People here are more concerned in pointing fingers and telling you that you are wrong without providing concrete solutions to improve the situation. If you haven't noticed, the significant contributions to FLOSS software are handled by large corporations or organizations and not a small community like the one we have here. That's why its difficult to have even a discussion with a community like this as they are more concerned with guilt and ideology than real solutions that are sustainable and move us forward.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
"And not all people are unimaginative." I didn't say all people were. Just those that can't imagine any other funding model as being valid. "Not all people are assholes who *want* to make stuff proprietary." Haha, but the reverse is true and all people that make proprietary stuff are? Thanks for proving my point. :)
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
I re-read my post a few hours later and actually felt bad about what I said there. I apologize for those comments and initially meant to say "most" instead of none. I actually use your repos for the kernel and VLC and am thankful for that. I just feel like I bang my head against the wall sometimes with die hard free software evangelists. In my computing, I don't push for non-free software and I want to support it all I can. I just end up fighting with many of you as I am really trying to find solutions. Whether I get into a tiff over permissive licenses or compromises with artwork in a libre game, there are always those people that simply follow an ideology and simply say "no. you can't do that. that's it" without willing to hear another person's reasoning. Sometimes it feels like I'm fighting with toddlers or grumpy old men who are so set in their ways that the world passes them by. I honestly wish from the bottom of my heart that all games were FLOSS. Not so I could pirate them easier, but to have that piece of mind. Games that I paid for once that my child could install and run without issues. So yeah, I'm sorry if I offended you Jason. It's just that I try to put together thoughtful discussions about these things and its frustrating when no one can respond with a solution that can fix it. It's been a problem for years and I fear its going to get worse from here.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
People will never agree as they are stubborn and will protect their ego. If there is a disagreement, they will create their own community. After time, there is conflict within the new community and members leave to start yet another. There may never be a solution to this. That's why companies like Canonical decided to do their own thing with Mir. They were never going to get what they wanted with Wayland and the other Wayland devs wouldn't play nice with Canonical. Free software allows you the right to create a derivative work and I would never deny someone that right. I just think that if less people did it and swallowed their pride for.the greater good of a project, that we would have better quality free software code.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
I think your missing the point. It's not a topic we should be discussing here. We shouldn't be having a discussion on DRM in relation to gaming. Any game with DRM is non-free and not appropriate here. If you feel otherwise it's a discussion you need to take elsewhere. In fact your not in agreement with the ethos of the free software movement if you think its acceptable.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
"I've been on these forums 4+ years and besides Ruben packaging a Trisquel ISO every few years, no one here has really contributed anything to the free software cause of any significance." Wow. Just. Wow.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Well, I get your overall sentiment, but I'm not sure I totally agree in that "nobody" has/is. There are a half dozen people here at a minimum that either do contribute something. Be it development time, work on maintaining a repository, work on maintaining a distribution (at least 3 people who occasionally post), or are working to make things easier to adopt (I get its not a direct "working on developing free software", but if its what leads us to having the sources under free software licenses from corporations that paid to write said software that's still moving things forward in my mind, and "doing something"). We've poked and prodded and that has led to sources being released for critical components. Everything is slow going... but there is progress being made even as we lose ground.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Did you even read it? THE GAME ENGINES WILL BE FREE.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
If I had Mark Shuttleworth money, I would put it towards building libre hardware. I want an open society so true innovation can happen without restrictions. Unfortunately, companies with the big money are focusing on mobile and tablet devices and are locking things down more and more.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
I think we're getting off topic... if people keep bringing up non-free games...
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Agreed, interesting topic but there is nothing new to be said about it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Yes! Let's do it!
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
> DRM is a breach but not as bad as Windows 10 That doesn't excuse DRM, however. I would argue that Stalin wasn't as bad as Hitler, but that by no means legitimises Stalin.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Most Developers go for the convenience like the "I have to use Adobe" world of Content Creators. When it comes to Games, they use middleware that have re-licensing restrictions and in a lot of cases, making non-free software free is just as hard as legally making a non-free fork of GPL Code, you need the consent of everybody that ever contributed to your source code because you didn't add a "it's not your code, it's mine and I just pay you to improve it" clause in the contract. There's no middleware for developers that's convenient, exports to evil Consoles and can be re-licensed however the license wants to. I like what Id Software used to do, they made their engines libre but if a developer wanted to make it non-free, said developer would have to pay Id Software for their branch that can be re-licensed however the licensee pleases. I think said middleware that's like unity would be a great idea for a non-profit lobbying organization. Even RMS has likes the idea of libre software with paid exceptions better than BSD licensed software. All that said, I am looking forward to OpenMW and I'm glad Morrowind is on gog.com . You can play one of the best games ever made using a completely free software stack. That's no more unethical than buying a non-free Flac song on Bandcamp. "Nonfree game programs (like other nonfree programs) are unethical because they deny freedom to their users. (Game art is a different issue, because it isn't software.) If you want freedom, one requisite for it is not having or running nonfree programs on your computer. That much is clear."-RMS Now, I don't have a complete free software stack, but I would like to try it as an experiment. I want to buy that dual AMD Quad Core Opteron Motherboard, install Coreboot and get the GPU that performs the best on a free software stack and see what I can do with it. Though I do wish a newer Xeon Motherboard was Coreboot compatible, AMD CPUs aren't very good and it uses a lot of juice for the performance it has :/
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
How about a Free Philosophy page? You can have Games be a subpage on that and have sticky topics on "Evil Consoles", "Windows DRM Games is a lesser evil of Consoles", "DRM-Free/non-free Windows Games is a lesser evil of DRM Windows Games", "DRM-Free/non-free games on a free OS is a lesser evil of DRM-free/non-free Games on Windows" and "DRM-Free/non-free Games with a free engine is the lesser evil of DRM-free/non-free Games on a free OS" and just be done with it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
For a while I have been trying to think of ways to encourage more people to make their games more freedom friendly but also get paid to continue to do what they love. I do agree that making games DRM free is a good step in the right direction, but there should be more than that. You do have to admit that being a strong free software supporter does put you at ends of what the "average consumer" generally looks for in their programs and entertainment. I really want to bridge that gap so more people can have access to games that respect their freedom but also at the same time have source code if they really want to. So here is what I was throwing around for something in my free time since I am a pretty decent programmer (mainly Python and PHP) and pretty good at making web site designs and their backend. 1.) Create a storefront where you have a GPLv3 licensed piece of software written in Qt either by hand or the Qt Creator program. Maybe in something like PyQt5 as offered via http://packages.trisquel.info/belenos/python3-pyqt5. Qt is a decent cross platform library and I have written programs in it before with PyQt and PySide. 2.) That program like GOG, Origin, and Steam would use the Qt5 Webkit to render the storefront pages but of course the "buy" or "source code" links will bring to a storefront on the site and when you go to install the game or source code, it would call a special link to talk to the program but if you are not in the program, directly give you the tarball. 3.) If you are a developer, you are of course able to offer the all-in-one game as you normally would. In a .deb file, .tar.gz, or maybe down the road in a Snappy package. Its their choice. 4.) When offering that program to the user, you either apply a hidden watermark or tie the artwork in the program to the buyer's email address or ID to make sure they are unique. While the software is free to distribute, the buyer has rights only to the art in the game and if the game is heavily pirated on like a torrent site, you can check the randomly placed watermark to find the person who did it. Like stated before, this art can be libre as jxself wants or can be commercial and when the person buys the game, it price of the artwork is factored into the cost (if the developer wants it to be) and not a separate payment. 5.) Offering the source code. The developer has pretty much two options. Offer a direct link to the source code that corresponds to the version of the game you are offering as either free or they have to pay for the source. People like jxself would of course offer a free option, but some developers may charge $10 for like a $30+ game. It is up to them. They would have access to the source code and for people like jxself who NEED it, they can get it. For average consumer, it may not be THAT big of a thing, but they have the option to get it. So what is what I have been throwing around. While it is great that there are people trying to make free software games, there needs to be that "it" factor to not only make it easier for gamers to get these games, but also for the developer to have the comfort in creating them while respecting the views of the free software movement.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Except that a budget for a video game is much bigger than developing web server software or a JavaScript library. I'm talking hundreds of millions of dollars (GTAV was like $250 mil and Destiny was $500 mil) that is not possible with a pure FLOSS game. You are telling me that a company should spend that amount of money and then give EVERYTHING away for free? What bubble do you live in? I personally think that the engine could be free and the art stays commercial. So when you are developing a big budget game and spend the money on artists and voice actors and the marketing team, they should be compensated from the money they make from the art. It is a win-win situation where free software evangelists can get the source code for the engine and be happy that the software is open, but for them to earn the right to play that game, they must pay for the media of the game so the development house can stay afloat. If RMS is fine with game art being proprietary/commercial, then what makes you think that your ideology that game art should be totally free has any pull? You do realize that the games you push like Xonotic are based off of proprietary engines and if ID Software didn't have the courtesy to release their old code as FLOSS, you wouldn't have anything now.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Let's think about this typical scenario: I have 10 employees (which is pretty low) and have the intention to create a game. Since the game is aiming to use a pure FLOSS engine, either I or someone on that team has to build it from scratch which takes time and effort. Let's say I aim for a year to two years for an engine from scratch. On top of that, I have to hire animators and programmers and artists and sound engineers. Let's say I also have someone to handle the marketing as well. Oh and don't forget an administrative assistant since we don't want the engineers having to deal with paperwork and use up their time. I'm guessing that you, Jason Self, wouldn't work for free since you have to eat. Especially since you say you live in Seattle and it isn't cheap to live there. In that scenario, I have to pay these people rates relative to their skills in the industry. They wouldn't work for free and even paying them $30,000 a year would be peanuts and I'm guessing $50,000+ easily. Prior to hiring these people, I would have to risk my savings or find some sort of capital to get things going. The first year or two is going to be building through my savings or that capital for not only the employees, but the rent and utilities for the office. Let's say we finally finish the game. In your ideal scenario, you would offer ALL of the game available at no cost which includes the engine and the artwork since you believe that artwork and video and sounds should be given away for free. Here are the scenarios: 1.) You sell the game for $20, which is under the average $60 price of a game. Someone goes to your site to buy the game but then also notices they can get the game for free. They will pick the free game. 2.) Let's say that person feels bad and REALLY wants to support you. But then at the same time they look at the cost. In the era of Steam sales, people are groomed to wait for $60 PC games to drop to $5. That could take years, but they are conditioned to wait for these seasonal sales. 3.) That same person may not play PC games but is used to freemium or $1 games from the Apple or Google app stores on their phone or tablet. That industry has conditioned those consumers to either get their games for free or at bottom prices. With that mentality, do you think they will pay $10 or $20 for your game? Never. So where does that leave us? Now you are the owner of a company and you poured all this money into your game due to having to pay employees and the other costs associated. Don't give me the "oh you can get people to do things for free" mentality. Good talent wants to be paid for it because they have bills like everyone else. That is why I leaned towards the scenario of having the game engine free and the assets not when you sell your game DRM free. You could provide (or even charge for the source code since that is also ok) the source code for the code itself. Its true that the game won't really function without the assets and is just a skeleton, but you can look in there and make sure its not spying on you and is of quality work. When you buy the game, the assets are tied to your email account or user id through a watermark of sorts to validate your purchase. That way you can also see who is distributing the game if it is pirated heavily on bittorrent. You can get to the source. So that's my thought. I probably wasted my breath with the people on here because you will always say "give me free code and free art and free video and free everything" without the consequences. It just seems a little closed minded and not realistic at times when you want to aim for something as big as a video game and want quality work while still respecting freedoms.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
RMS doesn't think a game's art assets have to be free-- he thinks everyone should be able to redistribute art non-commercially, though.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
In this post you still seem to be confusing gratis and libre. At no point have I said everything must be gratis. Please correct your understanding. :) "...when you want to aim for something as big as a video game and want quality work while still respecting freedoms." It seems interesting that you say that while also saying "having the game engine free and the assets not."
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Here's another question for you. Let's say someone develops a game that fits your ideals of free software and free culture. Or maybe its free software but has pay for assets. A customer goes on the site and buys the game and the developer doesn't immediately offer the source code for that game and asks $1.00 for the source code. Is that unethical to you that someone wouldn't offer source code off the bat? Maybe if the person doesn't want to buy that source code but then a month down the road puts in the request for the code and not only has that piece of mind, but also supports the developer. I totally support free culture but I have limitations. I believe in open file formats for word processing, audio, video, and anything else that serves the better good for the broadest appeal and offers no restrictions on archiving that media for future generations. But like I said before with games, it is specific to one purpose (art for that one game) and is for entertainment purposes. I'm just trying think of various methods of how someone can feel comfortable developing freedom friendly games without having to rely on panhandling (crowd funding) for the duration of the development and deployment.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Just out of interest, I want to point out what the numbers are like with a 500 million dollar game. I think you might be misinterpreting the statistics (Wikipedia says that 500 million dollars was the total money earned from the initially sold copies), but let's just assume you're right: at $60 from each person (a typical cost for a copy of a game), that would take just over 8.3 million people. That's a lot, for sure. But Activision apparently managed to convince nearly twice that number of people to buy copies. (Wikipedia mentions 16 million as the number of "registered players" in January of this year.) A publisher with a reputation for delivering high-quality games, such as Activision, Nintendo, or SEGA would probably adapt just fine to using the sort of scheme I've been trying with ReTux if they had to. It's hard to say if they would profit quite as much, but they wouldn't disintegrate.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
http://www.technobuffalo.com/2014/07/01/bungie-says-destiny-cost-nowhere-near-500-million-decade-long-story-planned/
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Ideally, you create a paywall for your game where they must pay for their copy of it. But then realistically, once that tarball and source code is out there after the first person buys it, it is distributed freely without restriction according to the free software license. It reminds me of that saying where you are the first one to get cable on your street, but the last one to pay for it. Art is not software and doesn't have to follow the freedoms associated with free software. Therefore doesn't conflict with the free software ideology. Maybe for you, with the free culture mentality, but that isn't software. I do agree that there should be no restrictions in learning or access to museums, but a game is a source of entertainment and not education.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Regardless of whether they implement DRM or not, they are still non-free software, and must be opposed on those grounds.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
If I were to justify the use of a non-free game just because it was DRM-free, I'd be able to justify running any non-free program that is DRM-free. Games are software, just like any other program. It's just as bad when a game is non-free.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
"You are telling me that a company should spend that amount of money and then give EVERYTHING away for free?" You of all people should know that when we're talking of free it doesn't mean gratis. Free software and free culture aren't anti-money. Recall what I said earlier that "I'd like to see more people doing what onpon4 is doing and developing free games commercially. Free from the start. Not free code with non-free graphics/sounds. Or that start proprietary and are made free later on when the code is thrown over the wall (and no longer compiles or runs on modern systems), etc." "that is not possible with a pure FLOSS game." So you say. Some people said developing GNU was impossible. If we really do want proprietary stuff to disappear entirely then it needs to be possible for people to make money from the stuff they make. All of the usual funding suspects come into play: Crowdfunding, subscriptions, etc. People are only limited by their own imaginations for what sort of funding models they can think up. BUT... just because someone's unimaginative and can't think up a way to raise a sufficient budget for what they want to do doesn't mean that sticking with the old school model of "I must take the power and control away from other people in order to make money" is valid. It assumes that the make of the money is the most important thing. Money is a reward only and isn't necessarily deserved. To quote RMS, "if anything deserves a reward, it is social contribution. Creativity can be a social contribution, but only in so far as society is free to use the results..." Society isn't free to use proprietary stuff, because it's proprietary. So if someone making something proprietary they don't deserve any money IMO. "If RMS is fine with game art being proprietary/commercial, then what makes you think that your ideology that game art should be totally free has any pull?" Fortunately I am not the only person with this view.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
http://www.engadget.com/2014/08/13/destiny-500-million/ It is the total package including the marketing in addition to the development. If that is inaccurate, there is another list at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_video_games_to_develop which has more info. Either way, most of these budgets are on the 10s of millions of dollars on the lower end.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
So let's talk more about this art issue. You pay for the right to see a movie in a movie theatre or steam a movie. Let's say you pay for tickets to go to a concert a poetry reading. You and you alone specifically have the right to view that medium for the duration. That guy off the street who didn't pay shouldn't have the right to view it as they do not have the right to do so. They created something for you and provide the best method to share with you so they can have the income to continue to create in the future. I'm talking about something in the realm of entertainment where it is not a necessity. You can choose to view something or not. It isn't food and their lives will go on if they choose not to consume your medium. If you are the creator of that art, what benefit do you get from allowing others to freely consume your media when you spent hours, months, or years creating? During that time period you had to eat or pay rent or take care of someone else. Where does the money come to if you cannot monetize it with at least some restriction?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
"Ideally, you create a paywall for your game where they must pay for their copy of it. But then realistically, once that tarball and source code is out there after the first person buys it, it is distributed freely without restriction according to the free software license. It reminds me of that saying where you are the first one to get cable on your street, but the last one to pay for it." Paying for copies made sense when copying was hard, but it isn't anymore. This goes back to finding other funding models. Just because someone is unimaginative and can't think of how to raise enough to fund what they want to do doesn't justify making stuff proprietary. "Art is not software and doesn't have to follow the freedoms associated with free software. Therefore doesn't conflict with the free software ideology. Maybe for you, with the free culture mentality, but that isn't software. I do agree that there should be no restrictions in learning or access to museums, but a game is a source of entertainment and not education." They can be education but I digress. You're clearly not onboard with free culture. That doesn't mean others aren't and won't be pushing for it. Nor does not mean they're being "closed minded" and "not realistic."
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
There seems to be some confusion going on again.
"Or maybe its free software but has pay for assets."
Here you're again confusing libre and gratis. So for this purpose I'll try to
say libre. Saying "but has pay for assets" tells me nothing of that license
of those assets. Someone can pay for libre assets but also for proprietary
assets. Is it libre? Is it proprietary? You don't say and I can't really
answer vague questions.
It happens again when you say "the developer doesn't immediately offer the
source code." Why aren't they? Is it because they're witholding it and it's
not available at all? A game without source code is proprietary, as I'm sure
you know.
Or is it the case that it really is available, but just costs $1? In that
case I wouldn't describe it as "the developer doesn't immediately offer the
source code."
Not knowing the specifics makes it hard to answer but I shall take a stab in
the dark.
If it's the case where the source code is absolutely withheld like on a
delayed release ("buy the game and get source code in 6 months for $1"), then
I would not be okay with that because it is proprietary until the source code
is available to those that are getting the game.
If it's the case that the source code is available at the same time as the
game but for an extra dollar then that could be okay but only conditionally
because it seems to becoming a slippery slope. $1 is not much but letting
someone charge one amount for the binary and then another amount for the
source code potentially opens a loop hole where someone could charge $60 for
the game and then one million dollars for the source code and then no one
could afford to get it. The game would in truth be proprietary since no one
could afford the source code. (See "High or low fees, and the GNU GPL" from
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.en.html.)
"...it is specific to one purpose (art for that one game) and is for
entertainment purposes."
Not necessarily. Things under a libre license can be re-used. Even for uses
and purposes that the original developer never thought of, so this logic
can't really apply to libre things. onpon4 is re-using stuff in reTux for
example.
"I'm just trying think of various methods of how someone can feel comfortable
developing freedom friendly games without having to rely on panhandling
(crowd funding) for the duration of the development and deployment."
Panhandling and crowdfunding are not the same thing. If it helps, think of
crowdfunding as being similar to placing a pre-order but just with with
different levels and amounts. Someone pays $60 and they'll get a copy of the
same when it's done. If they a larger sum then they could get a copy of the
game and some other perk.
I understand that a similar thing is going on with the sequel to Destiny.
Pre-order now and get come bonuses:
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/all-the-destiny-the-taken-king-preorder-bonuses-an/1100-6429170/
What they're doing here is exactly the same as what is commonly seen in
crowdfunding campaigns: Different amounts get you different things:
Normal Edition -- $40
Legendary Edition -- $60
Digital Collector's Edition -- $80
Are they panhandling? Of course not. Panhandling and crowdfunding are not the
same thing.
Using copyright to restrict people is commonly done under the guise of "we
need to restrict people in order to be able to pay for the development." But,
in the cases of crowdfunding (aka pre-ordering) where all of that money's
obtained upfront, what's the argument to be made for continuing to restrict
people after all of that money's been raised? There really isn't one because
their one argument's been nullifed by raising the money in advance and yet
people do it all the time.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
I'm still on the fence about the DRM free, yet non-free games debate. If the software was a tool like lets say Python or nginx or an operating system like Trisquel, then I 100% agree that it should be FLOSS. A game though is pretty self contained and serves one purpose. It doesn't try to run your web server. You don't use it to build things or surf the web. It is an isolated experience and you use it to enjoy the storyline and consume the media. Video games are art and should be in the same light as music and movies. I'm not going to deny something like Grand Theft Auto V (which the PC version is clearly the best) in favor of something else "just because its libre" and have to deal with lower quality. Yes, the game does have software due to the engine, but it is entertainment. Period.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
I think that the first had some free stuff, at least after enough money was raised: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2010/05/with-1-million-raised-humble-bundle-games-go-open-source/3 But this doesn't seem normal anymore though. You're totally right - They should be selling only free software. I don't give them any money for that reason. One challenge I see with setting a particular funding level in order to make a program free (like that link... raise one million dollars and it becomes free) is that is seems kinda like a chicken and egg problem to get started. I might be interested in supporting a free game, but I wouldn't until the goal's been achieved. If they were to offer full refunds if they don't achieve their goal that might sway my decision in the direction to support it but if they don't achieve it (like maybe they "only" get $800,000) and don't have such a policy then all I really would have done in the end is supported a proprietary game. I'd like to see more people doing what onpon4 is doing and developing free games commercially. Free from the start. Not free code with non-free graphics/sounds. Or that start proprietary and are made free later on when the code is thrown over the wall (and no longer compiles or runs on modern systems), etc.
[Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
The Humble Bundle store is having a big sale right now and for many of these games, they offer DRM free versions for GNU/Linux that can be installed directly from the download in addition to Stem keys. I know the free software community hates DRM and wants ALL of the code to be free software, but with it just being DRM free, does it really matter? What I am trying to say is that will any of you at least play DRM free games not requiring Steam even if they are non-free or do you consider the DRM free games useless as long as the program isn't free? As in they are wasting their time.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
"...and serves one purpose." Says who? Everyone deserves the fundamental
right to copy, modify and share. Period. It is the user's purpose that
matters, not the developer's purpose. The developer of the program is not
entitled to impose their purposes on someone else. All software is a "tool"
of some kind and should be free for the same reasons: Making a program
proprietary is a power grab. It's an attempt to have power over other people
("You have to agree to be a bad person and promise to never share a copy with
anyone. Have a bug in the game? You must come crawling on your knees to me
and pray "Please almighty developer! Please help us and fix this bug!" and
*maybe* I shall listen to you puny people." This should not be done.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
Are we allowed to talk about an idealized society, with a radically different economic structure than ours?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
I think you have to ask this question: Should we even accept copyright in the first place? It's taking away what is otherwise peoples rights to free expression. The justification for copyright was the benefit of the arts and sciences. However it was always intended to be "limited". That was originally 7 years. Now I don't see how you can argue that today those original claims hold true. It's not a "limited right" (it's an extreme length of time which means nothing you write today will likely ever be in the public domain in your lifetime- short of someone explicitly putting it there- or government works). I think it's also utterly ridicules to try and enforce copyright in the environment that exists today. It's a fruitless battle that can only destroy the democratic institution. I don't think you can justify censorship and copyright as the cost of freedom. Yet this is what is going on. The internet is global and the world doesn't agree on copyright no matter how much the entertainment industry wants to argue otherwise. There are international agreements on copyright, but it's far from globally enforced. There are dozens of countries which have sign none of the half dozen international agreements in the last 150 years. Where has copyright led us? It has led to censorship, violence against the people, and unjustly benefited a small minority of absurdly rich individuals. I don't think the elimination of copyright would necessarily be a bad thing. The people doing the core work are not the ones benefiting from it, and I'm coming at this from a perspective of being one of the people who have benefits financially from my own creative works. It didn't take digital restrictions, threats, or violence to profit off my labor. All it took was merely a sane business model. For example an author producing creative works can provide there works via subscription. Those works may get copied, but the end result is those who want those works *now* and continued access to new works from the same author need to subscribe. There are other totally doable models as well. The news industry survived off advertising for the last 100 years. While it may be a failing industry today it's not because of copyright infringement. It's because the newspapers have failed to adapt to the ever changing environment and competition from other outlets utilizing the advertising model. There are certainly successful news outlets now that are even specialized and successful. One need only look around. One such example is: torrentfreak.com. While small they put out a consistent 2-3 articles a day on a topic that attracts a niche readership. If they can succeed with a niche certainly others can too with a wider audience.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
I dont´t dislike copyright, but it just doesn´t work for anyone, at least for long. A game can be copied, just like many other things. It can get incompatible, specially the DRM... (old incompatible CD-checks aren´t fun). When Games are considered art, then they should be archived as good as possible, ohh yeah DRM...and copyright. There are some models: subscriptions, donations, advertisements, background mining, part goes to charity, merchandise, sell support...
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
I'd encourage people to avoid playing, paying for, contributing to, or even discussing the games dependent on non-free code. Talking about them furthers the publicity of the game. I'm not going to suggest we *censor* users who choose to talk about them as that too would be wrong.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
To answer OP: That's a problem the aswer for which is different for every individual. But it's still non-free software.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
moxalt wrote: Regardless of whether they implement DRM or not, they are still non-free software, and must be opposed on those grounds. And in addition from a security perspective, any non-free software one runs has as much access to the computer as the user account under which it runs. So any non-free software running as your normal login on your computer could spy on you, open a backdoor (certainly a temporary backdoor when running, possibly a backdoor that persists across sessions and reboots), and more. Even highly-skilled technical users would have no easy way to investigate this. Certainly nothing to compare with looking into the security of free software. This is where I think examining this issue along the type of software is pursuing a rather impractical argument.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Do DRM free games matter even if the game is non-free?
And "free trade" agreements like TPP, TISA, TTIP will extend the copyright term even further if passed :(
