date:20050604


 
 
Pure and undefiled religion is defined by James in terms of two different kinds of activities.   One has to do with our relationship to others.   A second concern is our relationship to ourselves   (Jam 1:27). Only the most thoughtless would believe that our responsibility to others is fulfilled in a "Hi and how are you" to the fatherless  or that the fatherless are to be our only concern.  And we not much help, in some cases, if we are doing what we can to keep ourselves free of worldly influences.   
 
Social concern, then, is a part of our divine imperative.   
 
In James,  a book written to those who tended towards legalism and the "doing of church,"  he pointedly reminds his readers that their efforts are good for nothing if their speech is not followed by action.  Be thou warmed and fill is a part of the message of the church.   But if it is not accompanied with that which is necessary for the health and well-being of the body,  their message is of no use  (James 2:16,17)
 
The story of the good Samaritan is a story that is all about social responsibilities.   It's message is as much for us today as it was 2000 years ago.   It is a lie of the Father of Lies to believe and teach that the preaching of repentance is the only evangelical concern of the church.  Evangelical, I say, as if social considerations were part of the evangelical outreach of the church.   If that is what you thought I had in mind,  then I want you to know that, yes,  I confirm that impression.    God is manifest in us and how we react to the world we live in.  That is the example of Christ.   Our lives should be lived with His in mind.  
 
He fed, perhaps, tens of thousands of people  (the loaves and the fishes  --  is the count of men only?)A dramatic statement of His concern for the social welfare of the community in which He had influence.  
 
His miracles expressed his social concern, as well.    
 
And passages such as Is 58:9-11 make it clear that our search for God will not be complete if it does not included an out-pouring for the hungry and the afflicted.
 
I, for one, admit my hypocrisy in this part of the ministry of reconciliation.   I have failed in the showing of social concern.   The question, ask by others on this in an effort to continue the fight, is nonetheless, a good questionwhat are we going to do about the suffering of those not so white and not so rich?    I do not know.   I am just now asking myself this question. And there will be an answer.    
 
there is too much in scripture for me to deny.   A change of mind, for me, is in order and I appreciate Lance and Gary having things to say on this subject that have brought me to this moment.  
 
Grace to you who know not grace,
Peace to you who know not peace,
Love  to those who show no love
 
and mercy upon us all
 
Jd

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Satan


Don't wait up all night looking for a response. 
Jd
 
  -Original Message-From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 02:19:03 -0400Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: Satan





 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: Hughes Jonathan 

even if an angel from heaven


I think it was from James Jordan that I first encountered the notion that Satan may have had a legitimate teaching task in Eden. After all, despite popular mythology, we don't have a biblical text that specifically points out when Satan fell. Moreover, elsewhere in Scripture, angels are teachers of human beings - indeed, angel means messenger. Furthermore, as I think I noted recently, God pronounces a curse upon the serpent specifically in connection with his deception of Adam and Eve; it could be argued that this is the initial curse against Satan.
Hmmm I don't have to ask who the author of this is.  Legitimate teaching task?  Only if you want to learn the lie; what do you expect the Father of lies to teach?  We do have a biblical text that tells us Satan fell from the third heaven with the angels who rebelled with him, no date but it was before God created A&E.  I'd like to see somewhere in scripture where angels teach.  A messenger announces something and/or delivers a message.  A teacher teaches.
But it strikes me that there is one further possible line of evidence: Galatians 1.8. "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed." It seems to me that it is not much of a stretch to think that Paul is alluding to Satan coming as a messenger from heaven and "preaching" something other than what had already been preached to Adam and Eve - namely, the words of God in Genesis 2.16-17. This is only fortified by the resultant curse upon the serpent in Gen 3.14-15 and Paul's use of the term anathema. The point then would not be that the serpent/Satan was not supposed to be in the garden - he had a legitimate teaching task. But he "preached another message," and Adam and Eve's calling was to judge it in terms of the message they had already received.
A&E were to fellowship with and obey God and when they chose to obey the voice with the opposite message they lost it.
This again opens up a further interesting door upon what the serpent was doing, if the analogy goes further. Paul is speaking of those who are offering "a different gospel," or rather, not another one, but a perversion of the gospel that they had heard. Suggesting, if the parallel holds, that Satan wasn't just telling nothing but lies; rather, he was twisting the truth that they knew.  All very interesting possibilities which deserve further reflection and investigation, it seems to me. 
And.. Should we give our pulpits over to Satan now as the teacher??
http://rabbisaul.com/blog/index.php?title=even_if_an_angel_from_heaven&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#comments
 






This e-mail and any attachments contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Thank you for your cooperation in connection with the above.Ce courriel ainsi que tous les documents s'y rattachant contiennent de l'information confidentielle et privilégiée. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé, s.v.p. en informer immédiatement son expéditeur par retour de courriel, effacer le message et détruire toute copie (électronique ou autre). Toute diffusion ou utilisation de cette information par une personne autre que le destinataire visé est interdite et peut être illégale. Merci de votre coopération relativement au message susmentionné.

[TruthTalk] Fw: Satan

- Forwarded Message -
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: Hughes Jonathan 

even if an angel from 
heaven

I think it was from James Jordan that I first encountered the notion that 
Satan may have had a legitimate teaching task in 
Eden. After all, despite popular mythology, we don't have a 
biblical text that specifically points out when Satan fell. Moreover, 
elsewhere in Scripture, angels are teachers of human 
beings - indeed, angel means messenger. Furthermore, as I 
think I noted recently, God pronounces a curse upon the serpent specifically in 
connection with his deception of Adam and Eve; it could be argued that this is 
the initial curse against Satan.
Hmmm I don't have to ask who the author of this is.  
Legitimate teaching task?  Only if you want to learn the lie; what do you 
expect the Father of lies to teach?  We do have a biblical text that tells 
us Satan fell from the third heaven with the angels who rebelled with him, no 
date but it was before God created A&E.  I'd like to see somewhere in 
scripture where angels teach.  A messenger announces something and/or 
delivers a message.  A teacher teaches.
But it strikes me that there is one further possible line of evidence: 
Galatians 1.8. "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to 
you, let him be accursed." It seems to me that it is not much of a 
stretch to think that Paul is alluding to Satan coming as a messenger from 
heaven and "preaching" something other than what had already been preached to 
Adam and Eve - namely, the words of God in Genesis 2.16-17. This is only 
fortified by the resultant curse upon the serpent in Gen 3.14-15 and Paul's use 
of the term anathema. The point then would not be that the serpent/Satan 
was not supposed to be in the garden - he had a legitimate teaching 
task. But he "preached another message," and Adam and Eve's calling was to judge 
it in terms of the message they had already received.
A&E were to fellowship with and obey God and when 
they chose to obey the voice with the opposite message they lost it.
This again opens up a further interesting door upon what 
the serpent was doing, if the analogy goes further. Paul is speaking of 
those who are offering "a different gospel," or 
rather, not another one, but a perversion of the gospel that they had heard. 
Suggesting, if the parallel holds, that Satan wasn't just telling nothing but 
lies; rather, he was twisting the truth that they knew.  All very 
interesting possibilities which deserve further reflection and investigation, it 
seems to me. 
And.. Should we give our pulpits over to Satan 
now as the teacher??
http://rabbisaul.com/blog/index.php?title=even_if_an_angel_from_heaven&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1#comments

This e-mail and any attachments contain confidential and privileged information. 
If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by 
return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or 
use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is 
unauthorized and may be illegal. Thank you for your cooperation in connection 
with the above.Ce courriel ainsi que tous les documents s’y rattachant 
contiennent de l’information confidentielle et privilégiée. Si vous n’êtes pas 
le destinataire visé, s.v.p. en informer immédiatement son expéditeur par retour 
de courriel, effacer le message et détruire toute copie (électronique ou autre). 
Toute diffusion ou utilisation de cette information par une personne autre que 
le destinataire visé est interdite et peut être illégale. Merci de votre 
coopération relativement au message susmentionné.

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: Satan





DAVEH:  Mormons have been criticized for suggesting the same.   Has JJ
received a lot of similar criticism from other Christians?

Lance Muir wrote:

  
  
  
  
  even if an angel from heaven
  
  I think it was from James Jordan that I first encountered the
notion that Satan may have had a legitimate teaching task in Eden.
  
  

-- 
 ~~~
 Dave Hansen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.langlitz.com
 ~~~
 If you wish to receive
 things I find interesting,
 I maintain six email lists...
 JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
 STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz




I agree Kevin that preaching and teaching the gospel of 
the Kingdom is the answer but I don't think this is the
kind of help Lance refers to since this is not 
primarily the ministry of the US Government.  jt
 
On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 20:29:57 -0700 (PDT) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
writes:

  Go into all the world and.Judy Taylor 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
  

Let me get this straight - IYO it is the duty of 
America as a nation to go in and try to heal the epidemic of violence and Aids in the Congo with what??  Just how 
does the gospel of the Kingdom cover a situation such as this?  jt
 
On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 06:09:29 -0400 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
writes:

  Why? It is the gospel of the kingdom, that's 
  why.
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 
 
Lance why are you so busy judging 
nations?  The Lord is the one who will take care of that in His 
time.  We are supposed to be examining 
ourselves to see if WE are in the faith so that we will be on the right 
side when He returns.   
jt
 
On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 17:18:23 -0400 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
writes:

  If this was a source of oil Kevin, your 
  country WOULD BE THERE! Terry sees this.
  
From: Kevin Deegan 
 
These deaths add daily to the cumulative total of 3.8 
million fatalities since the crisis began in August
 
Why don't you go over there and do something about it?
Talk is cheap!Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

  
  
  
  

  

  It's truly uncomfortable is it not? 
  When (in print) you sound, often, like someone so ?yuck! 
  Do be faithful to one of your own, Iz. Joe looks down from 'the 
  great 'hearing in the sky.' He's on the lookout for 'commies' like 
  homeland security is on the lookout for terrorists. It's the head 
  in the sand thingy, Iz.
   
  You want serious? I'll give you 
  serious! Does anyone out there know the following: One thousand 
  people die every day in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and 
  nearly half of these deaths are accounted for by children under 
  five years of age.  These deaths add daily to the cumulative 
  total of 3.8 million fatalities since the crisis began in August, 
  1998 to the end of April 2004.  This makes the DRC conflict 
  worse than any other conflict since the end of World War II and in 
  terms of death toll exceeds other recent crises, including Bosnia 
  (estimated 250,000 dead), Rwanda (800,000), Kosovo (12,000),. and 
  Darfur in Sudan (70,000)
   
  Despite this, the international 
  community has failed to take the necessary action to alleviate the 
  crisis.  During 2004, only 42% of funding sought by the 
  United Nations for its activities had been raised by August, while 
  contributions by the United Sates Agency for International 
  Assistance to DRC for 2004 have declined by almost 25% when 
  compared with 2003.  "No other recent confllict has claimed 
  as many lives and mortality rates remain elevated at an alarming 
  level.  In spite of these unambiguous facts, the 
  international community has not yet mobilized the necessary will 
  or resources to effectively address the crisis," according to the 
  latest mortality study, a joint effort by the New York based 
  International Rescue Committee (IRC) and Australia's Burnet 
  Institute.
  
- Original Message - 

From: 
ShieldsFamily 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: June 03, 2005 
14:27
Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: 
[TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz


Oh, 
good grief---why is it that liberals always fall back on those 
old tried and true names to call other people? If it isnt 
Hitler its McCarthy.  Get a new, but more creative 
insult please.  Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
MuirSent: 
Friday, June 03, 2005 11:47 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: 
[TruthTalk] N

Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz




 
 
On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 20:37:43 -0500 Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
writes:

  Judy Taylor wrote: 
  
I have no idea what is going on in the Congo Terry, 
and I suggest that you don't either.  Not really.  I've had enough 
going on here in my own home for the past two 
weeks to keep me more than busy.  I'm sorry you think I am 
cold
hearted and unloving but I still need the 
confirmation and witness of the Holy Spirit before begging God to do 
something when He knows the details much better than me .. Don't you think 
He is able to put it on the heart of some intercessor if that is what it 
would take?  jt
  ===Let 
  me ask a question, Judy.  Do you pray about your problems at home, or has 
  the Holy Spirit not led you to do that?
   
  Yes Terry, I pray and seek the Lord about what goes 
  on in my home, my family, and my community.
   I have a friend there who is a missionary in Africa, Judy.  
  His parents are in our home church.   Let me suggest that I know 
  what goes on there and since there is nothing else I can do, I pray about 
  it.  Let me also suggest that you do not want to know about the troubles 
  of others, part of the reason being that you have your own problems to deal 
  with.
   
  The Congo is one nation and Africa is a big landmass 
  Terry; the church we attend has missionaries in several
  of these and some have been to our church to tell in 
  person how they had to leave their home and belongings
  for reasons of safety. They had testimonies of grace; 
  God was there for them even without my prayers as surprising as that may 
  be.
  If you ever solve those problems at home, you might want to read about 
  the good Samaritan.  Jesus will point out plainly to you just who is your 
  neighbor.  
   
  Yeah! I've read it lots of times Terry and my 
  neighbor is the guy who was robbed and thrown in a ditch down the street, not 
  over on another continent.  My mother in Australia is always lamenting 
  the fact that I can't do much for her in her old age because I live here and 
  when there are problems and she does not have access to a telephone I am at 
  the mercy of those who are there in 
  person.
   
  The Pharisees could not entertain the thought of God loving some some 
  foriegner as much as He loved them.  They weren't about to love some 
  stranger as they loved themselves.  I hope that is not the case with you, 
  'cause it was sin then and it is sin now.
   
  I hope you are not judging me Terry because that is 
  every bit as much a sin.  Jesus said to "judge with righteous 
  judgment"I am sorry that I saw you as cold hearted and unloving 
  too.  It was a big disappointment.Terry

Re: [TruthTalk] Refresher concerning the TruthTalk forum


 Like I said, Deegan  -- you are here for the fight and nothing else.   You have my explanation s below and they will not be revisited.   It really is a shame about your hate.  
 
JD -Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 21:01:15 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Refresher concerning the TruthTalk forum




John wrote: > So where was the concern when Deegan called me a liar half a dozen times? 
Just for the record, John, I wrote Gary privately about that and his response was asking me to dig up the old posts for him. Then he posted something to TruthTalk that basically said he wanted people to be free to speak however they like to speak. Peace be with you. David Miller. 
LIE ONE  
John wrote:> Too bad you don't work for a living -- it would go a long way to keeping you off the street.  You are the liar on this one.  Kevin.   I wrote a post minutes after this first --  which made the point I was trying to make.  
From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Thu, 19 May 2005 16:40:57 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells
We went thru this all before and JD knows this. I don't mind if any call me ANGRY (CW) or worse (Johnathan). But to continue to propagate outright lies, well that is JD. 
This is a little bit of a sore point, as I will try and explain (again) I do not have my own business but am employed by others. I was married to Cheryl for 10 years in which we never had a vacation because all my vacation and many weekends and evenings were spent in ministy, in church & out. 

LIE TWO  I am not the one saying this.   Lie number two for Deegan.  
Kevin DeeganWed, 20 Apr 2005 04:25:52 -0700
DO not LIE & imply that I ever said "GO TO HELL" or have any wishes that anyone go there. 
You are a liar. (Like father like son)[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

In a message dated 4/19/2005 3:21:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

L&M says Go to hell, DavidLance has caught the Jezebel Spirit!
So you don't like it when someone says it back to you? JD 
 
LIE THREE   The churches he cited were not a part of the Churches of Christ , mainstream Restoration.  The Boston C of C is not a part of the mainstream Restoration body.   They have somewhere around 160 congregations and hopefully, their influence will die out completely.   The fact that you and David did not know this is proof of my point.   Lie number three , Kevin.  
Kevin DeeganSun, 24 Apr 2005 04:50:29 -0700
First it was you never talked to any CoC's Then it was never in the Church 
And now that david has posted the names it becomes Well you never preached in one! 
Ludicrous! 
Just like the "NONE" that mysteriously changed to "few" 
Par for the course for the LIAR [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

In a message dated 4/23/2005 2:12:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I'm not sure who you are talking about when you say "ignorant" Church of Christers, or what you mean by saying that I handled them so effectively. Many of them have sought me out, some I have accepted invitations to come visit them in their church or home, some have approached me trying to convert me to their way but ending up slipping on the creek bank and becoming baptized in the Holy Ghost and coming out of the Church of Christ. 
Nonsense, David. Absolute nonsense. You have never been invited to a non- instrument Church of Christ and delivered members of that church from whatever -- if that is a part of your claim in the above. Names, David. Give me the name of any Church of Chrsit you prached in. not unless you pretended to be one of them. 
 
Kevin DeeganWed, 20 Apr 2005 11:07:24 -0700
LIAR says You got me. Whoa -- how could I have been so inconsistent? No, actually, I meant what I said. Judy is the one who equated "one" with a "lot." This is what I mean -- you really don't read our posts. You just react. Point is you changed your story. That is to be expected. 
When one lies it gets hard to keep the stories straight! 
I changed nothing.   David nor you know the differeence between the mainstream C of C and the Boston church.   They are not in fellowship with each other  -- they are separate as the Mormons are from the Baptist.   Once again,  Deegan  you know nothing of what you are talking about.   
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

In a message dated 4/20/2005 4:52:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

JD NOW says By the way -- "one" is not "a lot." JD previously said "There are no corrupt Bibles"SO, what you really meant to say was "there are few corrupt Bibles"
You got me. Whoa -- how could I have been so inconsistent? No, actually, I meant what I said. Judy is the one who equated "one" with a "lot." This is what I mean -- you really don't read our posts. You just react. JD 
 
Judy TaylorWed, 20 Apr 2005 11:25:39 -0700
Another lie to cover the first one JD? Why not just "give it up" because this is a gotcha! 
What

Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz


To my shame,  I am much more inclined to go 2nd grade with you, Kevin.   Lance and Gary simply do not spend much time returning insults  --  and I am constantly having to hold  myself back.   If you really were concerned for their answers, they would give answer.   But when their words will be twisted and used against them NO MATTER WHAT IS SAID  --  well what is the point.   You are here on TT just for the fight and nothing else.   Virtually all of your posts are about the fight  --  complete with insults and the most uncaring presentation of anyone on this forum.   
 
JD -Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 20:32:05 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz



Are you asking Lance ALSO?
He is a little backed up with questions he is avoiding.
Get in Line![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



does the "love of God" in your life say anything to this problem or is your thinking that the Government fulfills your responsiblity to those dying in the Congo?  - or is that just more liberal nonsense?   
 
JD  -Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 09:54:13 -0500Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz






Lance, get it off your chest and please EXPLAIN to us exactly what you want US to do SPECIFICALLY about the CONGO!  Shall we follow your example and just blame other entirely guiltless people for it so that we can feel how compassionate we are? Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 4:21 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
 

Myopia. Ask your husband about it. I've found a total lack of concern on TT, from DM to DH, for global issues. To make light of 4M deaths is simply beyond my comprehension. Wait, actually it's not as you've all made jokes at any reference to events outside of either your neighborhoods or some 'sodomite' convention with an accompanying 'hollerin'' contest. 


- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: June 03, 2005 21:19

Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

 
You don?t make me feel uncomfortable except for you, Lance.  You?re really ?out there? my friend.  And your concerns about the Congo?what are you and Canada doing about it? Did you have a complaint with someone other than your beloved United Nations? (It?s a crooked JOKE!!!) Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, June 03, 2005 1:25 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
 

It's truly uncomfortable is it not? When (in print) you sound, often, like someone so ?yuck! Do be faithful to one of your own, Iz. Joe looks down from 'the great 'hearing in the sky.' He's on the lookout for 'commies' like homeland security is on the lookout for terrorists. It's the head in the sand thingy, Iz.

 

You want serious? I'll give you serious! Does anyone out there know the following: One thousand people die every day in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and nearly half of these deaths are accounted for by children under five years of age.  These deaths add daily to the cumulative total of 3.8 million fatalities since the crisis began in August, 1998 to the end of April 2004.  This makes the DRC conflict worse than any other conflict since the end of World War II and in terms of death toll exceeds other recent crises, including Bosnia (estimated 250,000 dead), Rwanda (800,000), Kosovo (12,000),. and Darfur in Sudan (70,000)

 

Despite this, the international community has failed to take the necessary action to alleviate the crisis.  During 2004, only 42% of funding sought by the United Nations for its activities had been raised by August, while contributions by the United Sates Agency for International Assistance to DRC for 2004 have declined by almost 25% when compared with 2003.  "No other recent confllict has claimed as many lives and mortality rates remain elevated at an alarming level.  In spite of these unambiguous facts, the international community has not yet mobilized the necessary will or resources to effectively address the crisis," according to the latest mortality study, a joint effort by the New York based International Rescue Committee (IRC) and Australia's Burnet Institute.


- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: June 03, 2005 14:27

Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

 
Oh, good grief---why is it that liberals always fall back on those old tried and true names to call other people? If it isn?t ?Hitler? it?s ?McCarthy?.  Get a new, but more creative insult please.  Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, June 03, 2005 11:47 AMTo: Trut

Re: [TruthTalk] [Bulk] Rmoderator Commant: was: Re: NIV Bible Quiz


Not even close.
 
Jd  -Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 20:26:58 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] [Bulk] Rmoderator Commant: was: Re: NIV Bible Quiz



I called you a Liar when I caught you in a lie, I presented the supporting statements, at that time.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 



You know , Perry,  if you are going to get serious with this  -- what about "liar" and Deegan.   Or just about ANYTHING Izzy says to anyone on the "left?   You strike me as being fair minded --  but you areheaded across the line  --  big time.   As far as David being a false prophet  --  tons of evidence on that , Perry.  Does not mean that he IS a false prophet  -- but it does mean that Gary's opinion is not unsupported.   
 
JD  -Original Message-From: Charles Perry Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 08:32:04 -0700Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] [Bulk] Rmoderator Commant: was: Re: NIV Bible Quiz


Gary, To call someone's comments a "myth" (even without any evidence) expresses your unsupported opinion. But, your parenthetical comment equates David to a false prophet. Rather than level such an ad hominem attack, please provide exidence to support your claim or retract it.  Perry the moderator  >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org >Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz >Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:51:16 -0600 > >myth (false prophets speak of JC in the past tense for manipulative >personal reasons or as does the author, below) > 
>On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:09:38 -0400 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >writes: > >..Jesus also respected Scripture the way that we do.  -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org  If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Re:American Nationalist PRIDE


Y0ou could care less about the folks in the Congo  --  so why continue badgering Lance.
 
JD  -Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 20:13:06 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:American Nationalist PRIDE



CMON Lance lay it on us your heart is Bleeding for those people in Africa!
What is your plan, and when are you implementing it?Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:







IFF you are content to be and, remain, somewhat more narrowly focused then, do so. Hell, Iz they're only black people dying of aids, starvation and war. I think it was Alfred E Newman who said 'What, Me Worry'? N 

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: June 04, 2005 10:54
Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz


Lance, get it off your chest and please EXPLAIN to us exactly what you want US to do SPECIFICALLY about the CONGO!  Shall we follow your example and just blame other entirely guiltless people for it so that we can feel how compassionate we are? Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 4:21 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
 

Myopia. Ask your husband about it. I've found a total lack of concern on TT, from DM to DH, for global issues. To make light of 4M deaths is simply beyond my comprehension. Wait, actually it's not as you've all made jokes at any reference to events outside of either your neighborhoods or some 'sodomite' convention with an accompanying 'hollerin'' contest. 


- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: June 03, 2005 21:19

Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

 
You don?t make me feel uncomfortable except for you, Lance.  You?re really ?out there? my friend.  And your concerns about the Congo?what are you and Canada doing about it? Did you have a complaint with someone other than your beloved United Nations? (It?s a crooked JOKE!!!) Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, June 03, 2005 1:25 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
 

It's truly uncomfortable is it not? When (in print) you sound, often, like someone so ?yuck! Do be faithful to one of your own, Iz. Joe looks down from 'the great 'hearing in the sky.' He's on the lookout for 'commies' like homeland security is on the lookout for terrorists. It's the head in the sand thingy, Iz.

 

You want serious? I'll give you serious! Does anyone out there know the following: One thousand people die every day in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and nearly half of these deaths are accounted for by children under five years of age.  These deaths add daily to the cumulative total of 3.8 million fatalities since the crisis began in August, 1998 to the end of April 2004.  This makes the DRC conflict worse than any other conflict since the end of World War II and in terms of death toll exceeds other recent crises, including Bosnia (estimated 250,000 dead), Rwanda (800,000), Kosovo (12,000),. and Darfur in Sudan (70,000)

 

Despite this, the international community has failed to take the necessary action to alleviate the crisis.  During 2004, only 42% of funding sought by the United Nations for its activities had been raised by August, while contributions by the United Sates Agency for International Assistance to DRC for 2004 have declined by almost 25% when compared with 2003.  "No other recent confllict has claimed as many lives and mortality rates remain elevated at an alarming level.  In spite of these unambiguous facts, the international community has not yet mobilized the necessary will or resources to effectively address the crisis," according to the latest mortality study, a joint effort by the New York based International Rescue Committee (IRC) and Australia's Burnet Institute.


- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: June 03, 2005 14:27

Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

 
Oh, good grief---why is it that liberals always fall back on those old tried and true names to call other people? If it isn?t ?Hitler? it?s ?McCarthy?.  Get a new, but more creative insult please.  Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, June 03, 2005 11:47 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
 

So then Kevin, in  Senator McCarthy like fashion you hurl out accusations sans proof in the hope that the accusation itself will serve you well enough! I'd have though as much.


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Re: [TruthTalk] Refresher concerning the TruthTalk forum


John wrote: > So where was the concern when Deegan called me a liar half a dozen times? 
Just for the record, John, I wrote Gary privately about that and his response was asking me to dig up the old posts for him. Then he posted something to TruthTalk that basically said he wanted people to be free to speak however they like to speak. Peace be with you. David Miller. 
LIE ONE
John wrote:> Too bad you don't work for a living -- it would go a long way to keeping you off the street.
From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Thu, 19 May 2005 16:40:57 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fond Farewells
We went thru this all before and JD knows this. I don't mind if any call me ANGRY (CW) or worse (Johnathan). But to continue to propagate outright lies, well that is JD. 
This is a little bit of a sore point, as I will try and explain (again) I do not have my own business but am employed by others. I was married to Cheryl for 10 years in which we never had a vacation because all my vacation and many weekends and evenings were spent in ministy, in church & out. 

LIE TWO
Kevin DeeganWed, 20 Apr 2005 04:25:52 -0700
DO not LIE & imply that I ever said "GO TO HELL" or have any wishes that anyone go there. 
You are a liar. (Like father like son)[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

In a message dated 4/19/2005 3:21:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

L&M says Go to hell, DavidLance has caught the Jezebel Spirit!
So you don't like it when someone says it back to you? JD 
 
LIE THREE
Kevin DeeganSun, 24 Apr 2005 04:50:29 -0700
First it was you never talked to any CoC's Then it was never in the Church 
And now that david has posted the names it becomes Well you never preached in one! 
Ludicrous! 
Just like the "NONE" that mysteriously changed to "few" 
Par for the course for the LIAR [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

In a message dated 4/23/2005 2:12:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I'm not sure who you are talking about when you say "ignorant" Church of Christers, or what you mean by saying that I handled them so effectively. Many of them have sought me out, some I have accepted invitations to come visit them in their church or home, some have approached me trying to convert me to their way but ending up slipping on the creek bank and becoming baptized in the Holy Ghost and coming out of the Church of Christ. 
Nonsense, David. Absolute nonsense. You have never been invited to a non- instrument Church of Christ and delivered members of that church from whatever -- if that is a part of your claim in the above. Names, David. Give me the name of any Church of Chrsit you prached in. not unless you pretended to be one of them. 
 
Kevin DeeganWed, 20 Apr 2005 11:07:24 -0700
LIAR says You got me. Whoa -- how could I have been so inconsistent? No, actually, I meant what I said. Judy is the one who equated "one" with a "lot." This is what I mean -- you really don't read our posts. You just react. Point is you changed your story. That is to be expected. 
When one lies it gets hard to keep the stories straight! 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

In a message dated 4/20/2005 4:52:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

JD NOW says By the way -- "one" is not "a lot." JD previously said "There are no corrupt Bibles"SO, what you really meant to say was "there are few corrupt Bibles"
You got me. Whoa -- how could I have been so inconsistent? No, actually, I meant what I said. Judy is the one who equated "one" with a "lot." This is what I mean -- you really don't read our posts. You just react. JD 
 
Judy TaylorWed, 20 Apr 2005 11:25:39 -0700
Another lie to cover the first one JD? Why not just "give it up" because this is a gotcha! 
What I said is that there are a lot of corrupt bibles out there and I gave one as an example 
which is hardly equating one with a lot. Do you have a problem with dyslexia by any chance? jt 
On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:06:11 -0700 (PDT) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: 

LIAR says You got me. Whoa -- how could I have been so inconsistent? No, actually, I meant what I said. Judy is the one who equated "one" with a "lot." This is what I mean -- you really don't read our posts. You just react. Point is you changed your story. That is to be expected. 
When one lies it gets hard to keep the stories straight! 
 David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Lance wrote:> Why not let David take care of this privately?Because Gary said it publicly. Besides that, my experience is that Gary often does not respond to my private posts, so why should I waste my time?Can't you, Gary, and John follow rules? Let's not be lawless. We have one rule on TruthTalk: No ad hominem arguments. The reason for this is because the dialogue degenerates into being about egos and people defending themselves. We want to talk about truth. The list is not for evangelizing, personal counseling, or any other similar personal ministry. It is a place for discuss

Re: [TruthTalk] A review of Lance Muir


I am not judging Daivd in his arrogance.  For all I know, he might think that arrogance can be a good thing  -  of the Lord.  
 
As far as you not understanding what is posted  --  I have seen that happen a number of times.   I think it is because you start thinking of your "reply" well before you have finished AND considered the post.  
 
Jd  -Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 21:09:33 -0500Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] A review of Lance Muir



 






David cannot see his arrogance  (but who's judging?)JD, you are. 
 
 You Linda rejects authority   (go ahead  --  moderator  --   and tell me the last time you "corrected"  her and received what you receive from the likes of me  --   that would be something like  "understood."What on earth are you rambling about here??? Izzy

Re: [TruthTalk] [Bulk] Rmoderator Commant: was: Re: NIV Bible Quiz

I called you a Liar when I caught you in a lie, I presented the supporting statements, at that time.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



You know , Perry,  if you are going to get serious with this  -- what about "liar" and Deegan.   Or just about ANYTHING Izzy says to anyone on the "left?   You strike me as being fair minded --  but you areheaded across the line  --  big time.   As far as David being a false prophet  --  tons of evidence on that , Perry.  Does not mean that he IS a false prophet  -- but it does mean that Gary's opinion is not unsupported.   
 
JD  -Original Message-From: Charles Perry Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 08:32:04 -0700Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] [Bulk] Rmoderator Commant: was: Re: NIV Bible Quiz


Gary, To call someone's comments a "myth" (even without any evidence) expresses your unsupported opinion. But, your parenthetical comment equates David to a false prophet. Rather than level such an ad hominem attack, please provide exidence to support your claim or retract it.  Perry the moderator  >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org >Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz >Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:51:16 -0600 > >myth (false prophets speak of JC in the past tense for manipulative >personal reasons or as does the author, below) > >On Fri, 3 Jun 2005
 20:09:38 -0400 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >writes: > >..Jesus also respected Scripture the way that we do.  -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org  If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. __Do You
 Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

Are you asking Lance ALSO?
He is a little backed up with questions he is avoiding.
Get in Line![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



does the "love of God" in your life say anything to this problem or is your thinking that the Government fulfills your responsiblity to those dying in the Congo?  - or is that just more liberal nonsense?   
 
JD  -Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 09:54:13 -0500Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz






Lance, get it off your chest and please EXPLAIN to us exactly what you want US to do SPECIFICALLY about the CONGO!  Shall we follow your example and just blame other entirely guiltless people for it so that we can feel how compassionate we are? Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 4:21 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
 

Myopia. Ask your husband about it. I've found a total lack of concern on TT, from DM to DH, for global issues. To make light of 4M deaths is simply beyond my comprehension. Wait, actually it's not as you've all made jokes at any reference to events outside of either your neighborhoods or some 'sodomite' convention with an accompanying 'hollerin'' contest. 


- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: June 03, 2005 21:19

Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

 
You don?t make me feel uncomfortable except for you, Lance.  You?re really ?out there? my friend.  And your concerns about the Congo?what are you and Canada doing about it? Did you have a complaint with someone other than your beloved United Nations? (It?s a crooked JOKE!!!) Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, June 03, 2005 1:25 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
 

It's truly uncomfortable is it not? When (in print) you sound, often, like someone so ?yuck! Do be faithful to one of your own, Iz. Joe looks down from 'the great 'hearing in the sky.' He's on the lookout for 'commies' like homeland security is on the lookout for terrorists. It's the head in the sand thingy, Iz.

 

You want serious? I'll give you serious! Does anyone out there know the following: One thousand people die every day in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and nearly half of these deaths are accounted for by children under five years of age.  These deaths add daily to the cumulative total of 3.8 million fatalities since the crisis began in August, 1998 to the end of April 2004.  This makes the DRC conflict worse than any other conflict since the end of World War II and in terms of death toll exceeds other recent crises, including Bosnia (estimated 250,000 dead), Rwanda (800,000), Kosovo (12,000),. and Darfur in Sudan (70,000)

 

Despite this, the international community has failed to take the necessary action to alleviate the crisis.  During 2004, only 42% of funding sought by the United Nations for its activities had been raised by August, while contributions by the United Sates Agency for International Assistance to DRC for 2004 have declined by almost 25% when compared with 2003.  "No other recent confllict has claimed as many lives and mortality rates remain elevated at an alarming level.  In spite of these unambiguous facts, the international community has not yet mobilized the necessary will or resources to effectively address the crisis," according to the latest mortality study, a joint effort by the New York based International Rescue Committee (IRC) and Australia's Burnet
 Institute.


- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: June 03, 2005 14:27

Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

 
Oh, good grief---why is it that liberals always fall back on those old tried and true names to call other people? If it isn?t ?Hitler? it?s ?McCarthy?.  Get a new, but more creative insult please.  Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, June 03, 2005 11:47 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
 

So then Kevin, in  Senator McCarthy like fashion you hurl out accusations sans proof in the hope that the accusation itself will serve you well enough! I'd have though as much.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: Moderator commant: Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

Translation:
 
Lance is saying "There is no way I can support any of this"
 
Dance Lance Dance
 
Don't look now but maybe you have the GIFT of Prophecy.
Lance said " I already know"
Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
There is no false witness being 'borne' here, CPL. I've been reading Davidfor a long, long, long while. He has a way of parsing definite articles. Ialready know what David would say in response to my 'supportive arguments'.So then, as I bear up under your mutual monologues with the Mormons, you cantolerate my 'read' of David's very distinctive theological 'bent'.- Original Message - From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: June 04, 2005 11:41Subject: Re: Moderator commant: Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz> Because if you can not support your claims, they are likely false, and> bearing false witness...well...you know.>> >From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org> >To:
 > >Subject: Re: Moderator commant: Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz> >Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 11:38:36 -0400> >> >Why?> >- Original Message -> >From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >To: > >Sent: June 04, 2005 11:37> >Subject: Moderator commant: Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz> >> >> > >> > > Lance, if you are going to state that David's citations demonstrate a> > > misreadng, please provide some evidence of such and allow David to> >respond.> > >> > > Perry the Moderator> > >> > > >From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > > >Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org> > > >To: > > > >Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV
 Bible Quiz> > > >Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 06:08:12 -0400> > > >> > > >As I said David, it is you. Your citations demonstrate a misreadingof> > > >both.> > > >(Jesus & Scripture)> > > >> > > >> > > >- Original Message -> > > >From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > > >To: > > > >Sent: June 03, 2005 20:09> > > >Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz> > > >> > > >> > > > > Lance wrote:> > > > > > I was simply alluding to those on TT who believe> > > > > > that God 'incarnated' in book form as opposed> > > > > > to a human being. (You, David, Judy and Izzie)> > > > >> > > > > I wouldn't
 use the word 'incarnated' but because you threw my name> >into> > > >the> > > > > mix, I suppose you are addressing my great respect for Scripture.> >Don't> > > >you> > > > > think Jesus also respected Scripture the way that we do?> > > > >> > > > > Consider the straining at the letter of Scripture that Jesus doesin> >the> > > > > following passage:> > > > >> > > > > John 10:34-36> > > > > (34) Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said,Ye> >are> > > > > gods?> > > > > (35) If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, andthe> > > > > scripture cannot be broken;> > > > > (36) Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into>
 >the> > > > > world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?> > > > >> > > > > Besides Jesus demonstrating here that he is a legalist, he> >illustrates> > > > > respect for every jot and tittle of Scripture. And why not, healso> > > >taught> > > > > that no jot or tittle would fail until heaven and earth pass away.> > > > >> > > > > Matthew 5:17-18> > > > > (17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:I> >am> > > >not> > > > > come to destroy, but to fulfil.> > > > > (18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, onejot> >or> > > >one> > > > > tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.> > > >
 >> > > > > Remember too that Jesus encouraged his disciples to listen andobey> > > >those> > > > > expounders of Scripture whom many on TruthTalk would label as> >legalists.> > > > >> > > > > Matthew 23:2-3> > > > > (2) Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:> > > > > (3) All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observeand> >do;> > > >but> > > > > do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.> > > > >> > > > > So who here is walking in the tradition of Jesus Christ? Is it> >those> > > >who> > > > > greatly respect the Scriptures and follow it closely, or is itthose> >who> > > > > think it would be evil legalism to do so?> > >
 > >> > > > > Peace be with you.> > > > > David Miller.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > --> > > > > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, thatyou> >may> > > >know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)> > > >http://www.InnGlory.org> > > > >> > > > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an emailto> > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If youhave> >a> > > >friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to> > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.> > > >> > > >> > > >--> > > >"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that
 youmay> > > >know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)> > > >http://www.InnGlory.org> > > >> > > >If you do not wa

Re: [TruthTalk] [Bulk] Rmoderator Commant: was: Re: NIV Bible Quiz

To quote Lance:
"Why?"Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Gary might have the gift of discernment, Charles. If this is the case then,simply 'discerning' (though he didn't, as you seem to suggest infer Davidwas a false prophet, IMO) is sufficient.Why not let David take care of this privately?- Original Message - From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: June 04, 2005 11:32Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] [Bulk] Rmoderator Commant: was: Re: NIV Bible Quiz> Gary, To call someone's comments a "myth" (even without any evidence)> expresses your unsupported opinion. But, your parenthetical commentequates> David to a false prophet. Rather than level such an ad hominem attack,> please provide exidence to support your claim or retract it.>> Perry the moderator>> >From:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org> >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org> >Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz> >Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:51:16 -0600> >> >myth (false prophets speak of JC in the past tense for manipulative> >personal reasons or as does the author, below)> >> >On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:09:38 -0400 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >writes:> > >..Jesus also respected Scripture the way that we do.>>> --> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you mayknow how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)http://www.InnGlory.org>> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have afriend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail
 to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: Moderator commant: Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

Because everyone sees your baseless accusations for what they are.Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Why?- Original Message - From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: June 04, 2005 11:37Subject: Moderator commant: Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz>> Lance, if you are going to state that David's citations demonstrate a> misreadng, please provide some evidence of such and allow David torespond.>> Perry the Moderator>> >From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org> >To: > >Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz> >Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 06:08:12 -0400> >> >As I said David, it is you. Your citations demonstrate a misreading of> >both.> >(Jesus & Scripture)> >> >>
 >- Original Message -> >From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >To: > >Sent: June 03, 2005 20:09> >Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz> >> >> > > Lance wrote:> > > > I was simply alluding to those on TT who believe> > > > that God 'incarnated' in book form as opposed> > > > to a human being. (You, David, Judy and Izzie)> > >> > > I wouldn't use the word 'incarnated' but because you threw my nameinto> >the> > > mix, I suppose you are addressing my great respect for Scripture.Don't> >you> > > think Jesus also respected Scripture the way that we do?> > >> > > Consider the straining at the letter of Scripture that Jesus does inthe> > > following passage:> > >> > >
 John 10:34-36> > > (34) Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Yeare> > > gods?> > > (35) If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the> > > scripture cannot be broken;> > > (36) Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the> > > world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?> > >> > > Besides Jesus demonstrating here that he is a legalist, he illustrates> > > respect for every jot and tittle of Scripture. And why not, he also> >taught> > > that no jot or tittle would fail until heaven and earth pass away.> > >> > > Matthew 5:17-18> > > (17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: Iam> >not> > > come to destroy, but to fulfil.> > > (18) For verily I say unto you, Till
 heaven and earth pass, one jot or> >one> > > tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.> > >> > > Remember too that Jesus encouraged his disciples to listen and obey> >those> > > expounders of Scripture whom many on TruthTalk would label aslegalists.> > >> > > Matthew 23:2-3> > > (2) Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:> > > (3) All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe anddo;> >but> > > do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.> > >> > > So who here is walking in the tradition of Jesus Christ? Is it those> >who> > > greatly respect the Scriptures and follow it closely, or is it thosewho> > > think it would be evil legalism to do so?> > >> > > Peace be with
 you.> > > David Miller.> > >> > >> > > --> > > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that youmay> >know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)> >http://www.InnGlory.org> > >> > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a> >friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.> >> >> >--> >"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may> >know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)> >http://www.InnGlory.org> >> >If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a> >friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.>>> --> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you mayknow how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)http://www.InnGlory.org>> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have afriend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who
 wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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Re: [TruthTalk] Exerpts


You give him an endless source of matrerial.  
 
Jd  -Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 18:33:14 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Exerpts



Are you stuck in a RUT man?
 
Everything you post is either "MYTH" or "DUALISM"[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



dualistically, then, false worship depends on an incorrect heart attitude
 
On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 15:58:39 -0400 Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

true worship depends upon a correct heart attitude


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Re: [TruthTalk] Re:American Nationalist PRIDE

STOPBlaming others what are you doing ?
Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:








Tell us? Ask Jesus what you should do, Iz. Guiltless? Have you seen 'Shake Hands With The Devil"? Look at Clinton and Albright showing up in Rwanda years later claiming that they did not know the extent of that holocaust. That holocaust was a mere 800,000. Who was the General who stayed behind during the conflict? Why Iz, it was Romeo Dallaire, a Canadian General.I'll pay for the rental cost if you'll get it and watch it. Thereafter I'd love to hear something other than a simple dismissal re: the second worst tragedy since WWII.

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: June 04, 2005 11:16
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Re:American Nationalist PRIDE


Im still WAITING, Lance.  Answer the QUESTION, Lance!  Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 9:10 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] Re:American Nationalist PRIDE
 

IFF you are content to be and, remain, somewhat more narrowly focused then, do so. Hell, Iz they're only black people dying of aids, starvation and war. I think it was Alfred E Newman who said 'What, Me Worry'? N 


- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: June 04, 2005 10:54

Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

 
Lance, get it off your chest and please EXPLAIN to us exactly what you want US to do SPECIFICALLY about the CONGO!  Shall we follow your example and just blame other entirely guiltless people for it so that we can feel how compassionate we are? Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 4:21 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
 

Myopia. Ask your husband about it. I've found a total lack of concern on TT, from DM to DH, for global issues. To make light of 4M deaths is simply beyond my comprehension. Wait, actually it's not as you've all made jokes at any reference to events outside of either your neighborhoods or some 'sodomite' convention with an accompanying 'hollerin'' contest. 


- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: June 03, 2005 21:19

Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

 
You dont make me feel uncomfortable except for you, Lance.  Youre really out there my friend.  And your concerns about the Congowhat are you and Canada doing about it? Did you have a complaint with someone other than your beloved United Nations? (Its a crooked JOKE!!!) Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, June 03, 2005 1:25 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
 

It's truly uncomfortable is it not? When (in print) you sound, often, like someone so ?yuck! Do be faithful to one of your own, Iz. Joe looks down from 'the great 'hearing in the sky.' He's on the lookout for 'commies' like homeland security is on the lookout for terrorists. It's the head in the sand thingy, Iz.

 

You want serious? I'll give you serious! Does anyone out there know the following: One thousand people die every day in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and nearly half of these deaths are accounted for by children under five years of age.  These deaths add daily to the cumulative total of 3.8 million fatalities since the crisis began in August, 1998 to the end of April 2004.  This makes the DRC conflict worse than any other conflict since the end of World War II and in terms of death toll exceeds other recent crises, including Bosnia (estimated 250,000 dead), Rwanda (800,000), Kosovo (12,000),. and Darfur in Sudan (70,000)

 

Despite this, the international community has failed to take the necessary action to alleviate the crisis.  During 2004, only 42% of funding sought by the United Nations for its activities had been raised by August, while contributions by the United Sates Agency for International Assistance to DRC for 2004 have declined by almost 25% when compared with 2003.  "No other recent confllict has claimed as many lives and mortality rates remain elevated at an alarming level.  In spite of these unambiguous facts, the international community has not yet mobilized the necessary will or resources to effectively address the crisis," according to the latest mortality study, a joint effort by the New York based International Rescue Committee (IRC) and Australia's Burnet
 Institute.


- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: June 03, 2005 14:27

Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

 
Oh, good grief---why is it that liberals always fall back on those old tried and true n

RE: [TruthTalk] Exerpts

He is dancing as fast as he can.ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:









ANSWER THE QUESTION LANCE. 
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 9:16 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Exerpts
 

I, for one, do not blame such as yourself, who choose the 'broad road' that leadeth to fellowshipping with 'non-sinners'. What was it again that Jesus was criticized for? With whom was he hanging out? A but, you take the Scriptures seriously unlike some who shall remain nameless (eh?)! 


- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: June 04, 2005 11:11

Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Exerpts

 
I suppose you would sit there and celebrate the community of diversity under the leadership of that pervert woman? 
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 8:54 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Exerpts
 

Wasn't it Jesus who first set the example of 'driving' around the sodomites, whores, liberals, crazies and the like in order to fellowship with the 'saints'.? Good for you, Izzie! Amen! Right on sister!


- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: June 04, 2005 10:42

Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Exerpts

 
Methodist, around the corner from our home.  One of the great liberal city churches in these huge, beautiful turn of the century buildings.  They are all peppered with sodomites.  No wonder we drive 25 miles to a real gathering of saints. Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 9:15 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Exerpts
 

what church?

 

On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:24:05 -0500 "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

..a church service..in which the Reverend was a lesbian__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [TruthTalk] Real men don't have a clue?





ShieldsFamily wrote:

  
  
  
   
ShieldsFamily wrote:
  

===


Spoken like a real man.  Who has never had to cook and
clean for a houseful of guests for weeks on end!  Maybe the Lord is
prouder of Judy for what she does than he does for a judgmental man who
doesn't have a clue? How many meals did you eat today, Terry? And how
many of them did you prepare? 

  
  ==
I had three meals today Iz.  Breakfast I made for myself so that my
wife could sleep in.  Lunch is something I always make for myself.  I
took my wife out for supper.  My wife has it rough, Huh?
Now tell me again.  Who is it that doesn't have a clue? 
   
   
  When you do the same for Judy then we'll
talk.
  

It may be a long quiet spell

RE: [TruthTalk] Re:American Nationalist PRIDE

We are all ears Lance.ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:









Im still WAITING, Lance.  Answer the QUESTION, Lance!  Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 9:10 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] Re:American Nationalist PRIDE
 

IFF you are content to be and, remain, somewhat more narrowly focused then, do so. Hell, Iz they're only black people dying of aids, starvation and war. I think it was Alfred E Newman who said 'What, Me Worry'? N 


- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: June 04, 2005 10:54

Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

 
Lance, get it off your chest and please EXPLAIN to us exactly what you want US to do SPECIFICALLY about the CONGO!  Shall we follow your example and just blame other entirely guiltless people for it so that we can feel how compassionate we are? Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 4:21 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
 

Myopia. Ask your husband about it. I've found a total lack of concern on TT, from DM to DH, for global issues. To make light of 4M deaths is simply beyond my comprehension. Wait, actually it's not as you've all made jokes at any reference to events outside of either your neighborhoods or some 'sodomite' convention with an accompanying 'hollerin'' contest. 


- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: June 03, 2005 21:19

Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

 
You dont make me feel uncomfortable except for you, Lance.  Youre really out there my friend.  And your concerns about the Congowhat are you and Canada doing about it? Did you have a complaint with someone other than your beloved United Nations? (Its a crooked JOKE!!!) Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, June 03, 2005 1:25 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
 

It's truly uncomfortable is it not? When (in print) you sound, often, like someone so ?yuck! Do be faithful to one of your own, Iz. Joe looks down from 'the great 'hearing in the sky.' He's on the lookout for 'commies' like homeland security is on the lookout for terrorists. It's the head in the sand thingy, Iz.

 

You want serious? I'll give you serious! Does anyone out there know the following: One thousand people die every day in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and nearly half of these deaths are accounted for by children under five years of age.  These deaths add daily to the cumulative total of 3.8 million fatalities since the crisis began in August, 1998 to the end of April 2004.  This makes the DRC conflict worse than any other conflict since the end of World War II and in terms of death toll exceeds other recent crises, including Bosnia (estimated 250,000 dead), Rwanda (800,000), Kosovo (12,000),. and Darfur in Sudan (70,000)

 

Despite this, the international community has failed to take the necessary action to alleviate the crisis.  During 2004, only 42% of funding sought by the United Nations for its activities had been raised by August, while contributions by the United Sates Agency for International Assistance to DRC for 2004 have declined by almost 25% when compared with 2003.  "No other recent confllict has claimed as many lives and mortality rates remain elevated at an alarming level.  In spite of these unambiguous facts, the international community has not yet mobilized the necessary will or resources to effectively address the crisis," according to the latest mortality study, a joint effort by the New York based International Rescue Committee (IRC) and Australia's Burnet
 Institute.


- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: June 03, 2005 14:27

Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

 
Oh, good grief---why is it that liberals always fall back on those old tried and true names to call other people? If it isnt Hitler its McCarthy.  Get a new, but more creative insult please.  Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, June 03, 2005 11:47 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
 

So then Kevin, in  Senator McCarthy like fashion you hurl out accusations sans proof in the hope that the accusation itself will serve you well enough! I'd have though as much.
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RE: [TruthTalk] Real men don't have a clue?




 
ShieldsFamily wrote: 

  ===
  Spoken like 
  a real man.  Who has never had to cook and clean for a houseful of guests 
  for weeks on end!  Maybe the Lord is prouder of Judy for what she does 
  than he does for a judgmental man who doesn't have a clue? How many meals did 
  you eat today, Terry? And how many of them did you prepare? 
  
==I 
had three meals today Iz.  Breakfast I made for myself so that my wife 
could sleep in.  Lunch is something I always make for myself.  I took 
my wife out for supper.  My wife has it rough, Huh?Now tell me 
again.  Who is it that doesn't have a clue? 
 
 
When you do the same for Judy then we'll talk.

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:American Nationalist PRIDE

CMON Lance lay it on us your heart is Bleeding for those people in Africa!
What is your plan, and when are you implementing it?Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:








IFF you are content to be and, remain, somewhat more narrowly focused then, do so. Hell, Iz they're only black people dying of aids, starvation and war. I think it was Alfred E Newman who said 'What, Me Worry'? N 

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: June 04, 2005 10:54
Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz


Lance, get it off your chest and please EXPLAIN to us exactly what you want US to do SPECIFICALLY about the CONGO!  Shall we follow your example and just blame other entirely guiltless people for it so that we can feel how compassionate we are? Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 4:21 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
 

Myopia. Ask your husband about it. I've found a total lack of concern on TT, from DM to DH, for global issues. To make light of 4M deaths is simply beyond my comprehension. Wait, actually it's not as you've all made jokes at any reference to events outside of either your neighborhoods or some 'sodomite' convention with an accompanying 'hollerin'' contest. 


- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: June 03, 2005 21:19

Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

 
You dont make me feel uncomfortable except for you, Lance.  Youre really out there my friend.  And your concerns about the Congowhat are you and Canada doing about it? Did you have a complaint with someone other than your beloved United Nations? (Its a crooked JOKE!!!) Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, June 03, 2005 1:25 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
 

It's truly uncomfortable is it not? When (in print) you sound, often, like someone so ?yuck! Do be faithful to one of your own, Iz. Joe looks down from 'the great 'hearing in the sky.' He's on the lookout for 'commies' like homeland security is on the lookout for terrorists. It's the head in the sand thingy, Iz.

 

You want serious? I'll give you serious! Does anyone out there know the following: One thousand people die every day in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and nearly half of these deaths are accounted for by children under five years of age.  These deaths add daily to the cumulative total of 3.8 million fatalities since the crisis began in August, 1998 to the end of April 2004.  This makes the DRC conflict worse than any other conflict since the end of World War II and in terms of death toll exceeds other recent crises, including Bosnia (estimated 250,000 dead), Rwanda (800,000), Kosovo (12,000),. and Darfur in Sudan (70,000)

 

Despite this, the international community has failed to take the necessary action to alleviate the crisis.  During 2004, only 42% of funding sought by the United Nations for its activities had been raised by August, while contributions by the United Sates Agency for International Assistance to DRC for 2004 have declined by almost 25% when compared with 2003.  "No other recent confllict has claimed as many lives and mortality rates remain elevated at an alarming level.  In spite of these unambiguous facts, the international community has not yet mobilized the necessary will or resources to effectively address the crisis," according to the latest mortality study, a joint effort by the New York based International Rescue Committee (IRC) and Australia's Burnet
 Institute.


- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: June 03, 2005 14:27

Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

 
Oh, good grief---why is it that liberals always fall back on those old tried and true names to call other people? If it isnt Hitler its McCarthy.  Get a new, but more creative insult please.  Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, June 03, 2005 11:47 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
 

So then Kevin, in  Senator McCarthy like fashion you hurl out accusations sans proof in the hope that the accusation itself will serve you well enough! I'd have though as much.
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RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

It is the ENEMIES of the Cross that are headed to Destruction that should be ASHAMED. Phil 3:18-19ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:









Blaine, its only shameful if Im wrong.  And Im not.  One day you will wish with all your heart that you had heeded the warnings you have been given here on TT.  Izzy
 





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]You are using the "guilt by association" approach to reasoning, which is false reasoning, and shameful for anyone to have to resort to it.    
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Re: [TruthTalk] Real men don't have a clue?





ShieldsFamily wrote:

  
  
  
===
  
  
  Spoken like a real man.  Who has never had to cook and
clean for a houseful of guests for weeks on end!  Maybe the Lord is
prouder of Judy for what she does than he does for a judgmental man who
doesn't have a clue? How many meals did you eat today, Terry? And how
many of them did you prepare? 
  

==
I had three meals today Iz.  Breakfast I made for myself so that my
wife could sleep in.  Lunch is something I always make for myself.  I
took my wife out for supper.  My wife has it rough, Huh?
Now tell me again.  Who is it that doesn't have a clue?

RE: [TruthTalk] Real men don't have a clue?




Obviously you were put in charge of your own laundry by your wife 
so she could tend to the Congo. 


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry 
CliftonSent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 8:59 PMTo: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Real men don't 
have a clue?
What underwear?ShieldsFamily wrote: 

  
  PS And she kept your stupid underwear clean, 
  too!!!
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  On Behalf Of ShieldsFamilySent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 8:22 
  PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: 
  [TruthTalk] Real men don't have a 
  clue?===Let 
  me ask a question, Judy.  Do you pray about your problems at home, or has 
  the Holy Spirit not led you to do that?
   
 I have a friend there who is a missionary in Africa, Judy.  
His parents are in our home church.   Let me suggest that I know 
what goes on there and since there is nothing else I can do, I pray about 
it.  Let me also suggest that you do not want to know about the 
troubles of others, part of the reason being that you have your own problems 
to deal with.
  If you ever solve those problems at home, you might want to read about 
  the good Samaritan.  Jesus will point out plainly to you just who is your 
  neighbor.  The Pharisees could not entertain the thought of God loving 
  some some foriegner as much as He loved them.  They weren't about to love 
  some stranger as they loved themselves.  I hope that is not the case with 
  you, 'cause it was sin then and it is sin now.I am sorry that I saw you as 
  cold hearted and unloving too.  It was a big 
  disappointment.Terry 
   
  Spoken like 
  a real man.  Who has never had to cook and clean for a houseful of guests 
  for weeks on end!  Maybe the Lord is prouder of Judy for what she does 
  than he does for a judgmental man who doesn't have a clue? How many meals did 
  you eat today, Terry? And how many of them did you prepare? And Lance? and JD? 
  My guess is there was a woman who kept your belly full so you guys could 
  bellyache about Judy not wringing her hands about the Congo!!! Try walking in 
  someone else's shoes before you accuse them of being insensitive because they 
  aren't overwrought over what is going on on the other side of 
  the earth.  If we took on every problem in the world we would 
  pray night and day and never do anything else--and that's the truth. We should 
  deal with whatever God puts on our plate today--tomorrow will have enough 
  trouble of its 
own. Izzy

Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

Backup your statement, for once in your life. Anyone can make accusations, what is your basis for such?Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
As I said David, it is you. Your citations demonstrate a misreading of both.(Jesus & Scripture)- Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: June 03, 2005 20:09Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz> Lance wrote:> > I was simply alluding to those on TT who believe> > that God 'incarnated' in book form as opposed> > to a human being. (You, David, Judy and Izzie)>> I wouldn't use the word 'incarnated' but because you threw my name intothe mix, I suppose you are addressing my great respect for Scripture. Don'tyou  think Jesus also respected Scripture the way that we do?>> Consider the straining at the letter of Scripture that Jesus does in the> following passage:>> John
 10:34-36> (34) Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are> gods?> (35) If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the> scripture cannot be broken;> (36) Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the> world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?>> Besides Jesus demonstrating here that he is a legalist, he illustrates> respect for every jot and tittle of Scripture. And why not, he alsotaught> that no jot or tittle would fail until heaven and earth pass away.>> Matthew 5:17-18> (17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I amnot> come to destroy, but to fulfil.> (18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one> tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.>> Remember too that Jesus encouraged his disciples to
 listen and obey those> expounders of Scripture whom many on TruthTalk would label as legalists.>> Matthew 23:2-3> (2) Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:> (3) All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do;but> do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.>> So who here is walking in the tradition of Jesus Christ? Is it those who> greatly respect the Scriptures and follow it closely, or is it those who> think it would be evil legalism to do so?>> Peace be with you.> David Miller.>>> --> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you mayknow how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)http://www.InnGlory.org>> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have
 afriend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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Re: [TruthTalk] Real men don't have a clue?





What underwear?

ShieldsFamily wrote:

  
  
  
  PS And she kept your stupid underwear
clean, too!!!
  
  
  From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of ShieldsFamily
  Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 8:22 PM
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Real men don't have a clue?
  
  
===
  
Let me ask a question, Judy.  Do you pray about your problems at home,
or has the Holy Spirit not led you to do that?
  
 
 I have a friend there who is a missionary in Africa, Judy. 
His parents are in our home church.   Let me suggest that I know what
goes on there and since there is nothing else I can do, I pray about
it.  Let me also suggest that you do not want to know about the
troubles of others, part of the reason being that you have your own
problems to deal with.

  
  If you ever solve those problems at home, you might want to read
about the good Samaritan.  Jesus will point out plainly to you just who
is your neighbor.  The Pharisees could not entertain the thought of God
loving some some foriegner as much as He loved them.  They weren't
about to love some stranger as they loved themselves.  I hope that is
not the case with you, 'cause it was sin then and it is sin now.
I am sorry that I saw you as cold hearted and unloving too.  It was a
big disappointment.
Terry 
   
  Spoken like a real man.  Who has never had to cook and
clean for a houseful of guests for weeks on end!  Maybe the Lord is
prouder of Judy for what she does than he does for a judgmental man who
doesn't have a clue? How many meals did you eat today, Terry? And how
many of them did you prepare? And Lance? and JD? My guess is there was
a woman who kept your belly full so you guys could bellyache about Judy
not wringing her hands about the Congo!!! Try walking in someone else's
shoes before you accuse them of being insensitive because they aren't
overwrought over what is going on on the other side of the earth.  If
we took on every problem in the world we would pray night and day and
never do anything else--and that's the truth. We should deal with
whatever God puts on our plate today--tomorrow will have enough trouble
of its own. Izzy

Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

I've found a total lack of concern 
 
Here is your opportunity to FLAP your gums.
 
In what way have you demonstrated your Concern Lance?Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:








Myopia. Ask your husband about it. I've found a total lack of concern on TT, from DM to DH, for global issues. To make light of 4M deaths is simply beyond my comprehension. Wait, actually it's not as you've all made jokes at any reference to events outside of either your neighborhoods or some 'sodomite' convention with an accompanying 'hollerin'' contest. 

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: June 03, 2005 21:19
Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz


You dont make me feel uncomfortable except for you, Lance.  Youre really out there my friend.  And your concerns about the Congowhat are you and Canada doing about it? Did you have a complaint with someone other than your beloved United Nations? (Its a crooked JOKE!!!) Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, June 03, 2005 1:25 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
 

It's truly uncomfortable is it not? When (in print) you sound, often, like someone so ?yuck! Do be faithful to one of your own, Iz. Joe looks down from 'the great 'hearing in the sky.' He's on the lookout for 'commies' like homeland security is on the lookout for terrorists. It's the head in the sand thingy, Iz.

 

You want serious? I'll give you serious! Does anyone out there know the following: One thousand people die every day in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and nearly half of these deaths are accounted for by children under five years of age.  These deaths add daily to the cumulative total of 3.8 million fatalities since the crisis began in August, 1998 to the end of April 2004.  This makes the DRC conflict worse than any other conflict since the end of World War II and in terms of death toll exceeds other recent crises, including Bosnia (estimated 250,000 dead), Rwanda (800,000), Kosovo (12,000),. and Darfur in Sudan (70,000)

 

Despite this, the international community has failed to take the necessary action to alleviate the crisis.  During 2004, only 42% of funding sought by the United Nations for its activities had been raised by August, while contributions by the United Sates Agency for International Assistance to DRC for 2004 have declined by almost 25% when compared with 2003.  "No other recent confllict has claimed as many lives and mortality rates remain elevated at an alarming level.  In spite of these unambiguous facts, the international community has not yet mobilized the necessary will or resources to effectively address the crisis," according to the latest mortality study, a joint effort by the New York based International Rescue Committee (IRC) and Australia's Burnet
 Institute.


- Original Message - 

From: ShieldsFamily 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: June 03, 2005 14:27

Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

 
Oh, good grief---why is it that liberals always fall back on those old tried and true names to call other people? If it isnt Hitler its McCarthy.  Get a new, but more creative insult please.  Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, June 03, 2005 11:47 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
 

So then Kevin, in  Senator McCarthy like fashion you hurl out accusations sans proof in the hope that the accusation itself will serve you well enough! I'd have though as much.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

The sodomites are growing fast are they right too?
 
Jo was not guilty by association, but by his own IMMORAL behavior![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



In a message dated 6/1/2005 1:34:33 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The mormons have their JSmith; the J.Witnesses have their CT Russell, theChristian Scientists have their Mary Baker Eddy; the RCC's have their Pope,and the Incarnationalists have their "Bishop".  Ever wonder if ANY of themhave the "right" Jesus? Izzy

Blaine:  The "Right" Jesus is the one we all worship, and saying he is different because of this or that is rediculous.  Jesus has not changed, and he has spoken to men in this dispensation, just as in olden times, and the truths he taught  will eventually engulf the world, as the stone (His Church) cut out of the side of the mountain rolls forth and eventually fills the whole earth.  And Pairing Joseph Smith with a bunch of other false Christs and false prophets is just another of Satan's tricks. You are using the "guilt by association" approach to reasoning, which is false reasoning, and shameful for anyone to have to resort to it.    By the way, the Mormon Church is now the 4th largest denomination in America.  Just two years ago, it was the 5th largest.  
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Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

myth[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



myth (false prophets speak of JC in the past tense for manipulative personal reasons or as does the author, below)
 
On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:09:38 -0400 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:>..Jesus also respected Scripture the way that we do.

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Re: [TruthTalk] The Truth About the Congo

What comes out of the UN? Look at these NGO's
They are both waiting for the coming World Spiritual Teacher!
http://www.lucistrust.org/ used to be Lucifer trust
http://www.aquaac.org/ We have an informal network at the UN, a humanity underground. It consists of those who are committed, aware, and striving to bring the New World to birth. It consists of people in high places and in low-of the patient secretary who has been 30 years with the UN, but lives with the vision and the spirit; of the professionals, and undersecretaries and heads of departments who are acting out the imperatives that their own inner vision gives them. Some few are conscious of the sources of their inspiration; most are not. They are the Karma Yogis of our time-those whose path of spirituality is to achieve through doing-to grow through serving. They are found not only in the secretariat but also in the delegations to the UN, among the diplomats and their staffs, and also among folks like us, representatives of non-governmental organizations around the UN.
http://www.aquaac.org/meetings/may05/info/index.html
WHO IS THIS MAN THIS UN He has been for two thousand years the supreme Head of the Church Invisible, the spiritual Hierarchy, composed of disciples of all faiths. He recognizes and loves those who are not Christian but who retain their allegiance to their Founders--the Buddha, Mohammed, and others. He cares not what the faith is, if the objective is love of God and of humanity. If men look for the Christ Who left His disciples centuries ago they will fail to recognize the Christ Who is in process of returning.
The reappearance will take place on many different levels. There will be a Great Being who will be recognized as the World Spiritual Teacher. Also, this Great Being will bring a vortex of planetary and cosmic energy that will be available to those who can respond to it, inspiring and strengthening the cause of all that which is Good, True and Beautiful. The reappearance also refers to the _expression_ of the christ or love nature within humanity. It refers to the birth of the christ nature (the soul) within the "cave of the human heart" (the physical plane).
http://www.shareintl.org/ 'Soon, now very soon, you will see my face and hear my words.'
ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
US is largest contributor to UN Peacekeeping missions. UN Officials rapeand abuse refugees in Congo:http://www.heritage.org/Research/InternationalOrganizations/hl868.cfm. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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Re: [TruthTalk] The Truth About the Congo

The Beasts in Blue Berets have a history of such.
. . . we are not going to achieve a new world order without paying for it in blood as well as in words and money Arthur Schlesinger Jr., in Foreign Affairs (July/August 1995)
Is that the RAPE FOR FOOD PROGRAM?
Where the UN goes RAPE follows:
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/001578.htm raped by three U.N. peacekeepers from Pakistan
http://www.acepilots.com/unscam/archives/001846.html The people who were left after the machete hacking in Rwanda and the survivors of other carnage and rape while supposedly being 'protected' by UN personnel
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A30286-2005Mar12.html?nav=rss_world
sexual misconduct by U.N. personnel in Burundi, Haiti, Liberia and elsewhere
http://www.news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/01/17/wleon17.xml United Nations peacekeepers were all guilty of raping women on a systematic scale throughout Sierra Leone's ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
US is largest contributor to UN Peacekeeping missions. UN Officials rapeand abuse refugees in Congo:http://www.heritage.org/Research/InternationalOrganizations/hl868.cfm. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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RE: [TruthTalk] Real men don't have a clue?




PS And she kept your stupid underwear clean, 
too!!!


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
ShieldsFamilySent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 8:22 PMTo: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] Real men don't have a 
clue?
===Let 
me ask a question, Judy.  Do you pray about your problems at home, or has 
the Holy Spirit not led you to do that?

   
   I have a friend there who is a missionary in Africa, Judy.  
  His parents are in our home church.   Let me suggest that I know 
  what goes on there and since there is nothing else I can do, I pray about 
  it.  Let me also suggest that you do not want to know about the troubles 
  of others, part of the reason being that you have your own problems to deal 
  with.
If you ever solve those problems at home, you might want to read about the 
good Samaritan.  Jesus will point out plainly to you just who is your 
neighbor.  The Pharisees could not entertain the thought of God loving some 
some foriegner as much as He loved them.  They weren't about to love some 
stranger as they loved themselves.  I hope that is not the case with you, 
'cause it was sin then and it is sin now.I am sorry that I saw you as cold 
hearted and unloving too.  It was a big disappointment.Terry 
 
Spoken like a 
real man.  Who has never had to cook and clean for a houseful of guests for 
weeks on end!  Maybe the Lord is prouder of Judy for what she does than he 
does for a judgmental man who doesn't have a clue? How many meals did you eat 
today, Terry? And how many of them did you prepare? And Lance? and JD? My guess 
is there was a woman who kept your belly full so you guys could bellyache about 
Judy not wringing her hands about the Congo!!! Try walking in someone else's 
shoes before you accuse them of being insensitive because they aren't 
overwrought over what is going on on the other side of the earth.  If 
we took on every problem in the world we would pray night and day and never 
do anything else--and that's the truth. We should deal with whatever God puts on 
our plate today--tomorrow will have enough trouble of its 
own. Izzy

RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz




Neither Lance nor JD has been one bit helpful today in suggesting 
concrete ways in which we can cure the ills of the Congo.  I am sorely 
disappointed. Izzy


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin 
DeeganSent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 7:28 PMTo: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV 
Bible Quiz

I asked you before what you were DOING. You did not want to answer because 
it is not important. Right!
 
What gets it DONE JD?
Tell us how you do it.
 
Is this not a REAL ISSUE? Then don't avoid it. 
Just come out and admit it, you are DOING 
_[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  Hidding behind tough words don't get it done, Deegan.   
   Just another way of avoiding the real and important issues.  
   
  JD -Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
  Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:52:25 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] 
  NIV Bible Quiz
  

  
  These deaths add daily to the cumulative total of 3.8 million 
  fatalities since the crisis began in August
   
  Why don't you go over there and do something about it?
  Talk is cheap!Lance Muir 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  






It's truly uncomfortable is it not? When (in 
print) you sound, often, like someone so ?yuck! Do be faithful to 
one of your own, Iz. Joe looks down from 'the great 'hearing in the sky.' 
He's on the lookout for 'commies' like homeland security is on the lookout 
for terrorists. It's the head in the sand thingy, Iz.
 
You want serious? I'll give you serious! Does 
anyone out there know the following: One thousand people die every day in 
the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and nearly half of these deaths are 
accounted for by children under five years of age.  These deaths add 
daily to the cumulative total of 3.8 million fatalities since the crisis 
began in August, 1998 to the end of April 2004.  This makes the DRC 
conflict worse than any other conflict since the end of World War II and in 
terms of death toll exceeds other recent crises, including Bosnia (estimated 
250,000 dead), Rwanda (800,000), Kosovo (12,000),. and Darfur in Sudan 
(70,000)
 
Despite this, the international community has 
failed to take the necessary action to alleviate the crisis.  During 
2004, only 42% of funding sought by the United Nations for its activities 
had been raised by August, while contributions by the United Sates Agency 
for International Assistance to DRC for 2004 have declined by almost 25% 
when compared with 2003.  "No other recent confllict has claimed as 
many lives and mortality rates remain elevated at an alarming level.  
In spite of these unambiguous facts, the international community has not yet 
mobilized the necessary will or resources to effectively address the 
crisis," according to the latest mortality study, a joint effort by the New 
York based International Rescue Committee (IRC) and Australia's Burnet 
Institute.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: June 03, 2005 14:27
  Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] 
  NIV Bible Quiz
  
  
  Oh, good 
  grief---why is it that liberals always fall back on those old tried and 
  true names to call other people? If it isn?t ?Hitler? it?s 
  ?McCarthy?.  Get a new, but more creative insult please.  
  Izzy
   
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, June 03, 2005 11:47 
  AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] 
  NIV Bible Quiz
   
  
  So then Kevin, in 
   Senator McCarthy like fashion you hurl out accusations sans proof in 
  the hope that the accusation itself will serve you well enough! I'd have 
  though as 
  much.
  
  
  Discover Yahoo!Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & 
  more. Check it out! 
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[TruthTalk] Real men don't have a clue?



===Let 
me ask a question, Judy.  Do you pray about your problems at home, or has 
the Holy Spirit not led you to do that?

   
   I have a friend there who is a missionary in Africa, Judy.  
  His parents are in our home church.   Let me suggest that I know 
  what goes on there and since there is nothing else I can do, I pray about 
  it.  Let me also suggest that you do not want to know about the troubles 
  of others, part of the reason being that you have your own problems to deal 
  with.
If you ever solve those problems at home, you might want to read about the 
good Samaritan.  Jesus will point out plainly to you just who is your 
neighbor.  The Pharisees could not entertain the thought of God loving some 
some foriegner as much as He loved them.  They weren't about to love some 
stranger as they loved themselves.  I hope that is not the case with you, 
'cause it was sin then and it is sin now.I am sorry that I saw you as cold 
hearted and unloving too.  It was a big disappointment.Terry 
 
Spoken like a 
real man.  Who has never had to cook and clean for a houseful of guests for 
weeks on end!  Maybe the Lord is prouder of Judy for what she does than he 
does for a judgmental man who doesn't have a clue? How many meals did you eat 
today, Terry? And how many of them did you prepare? And Lance? and JD? My guess 
is there was a woman who kept your belly full so you guys could bellyache about 
Judy not wringing her hands about the Congo!!! Try walking in someone else's 
shoes before you accuse them of being insensitive because they aren't 
overwrought over what is going on on the other side of the earth.  If 
we took on every problem in the world we would pray night and day and never 
do anything else--and that's the truth. We should deal with whatever God puts on 
our plate today--tomorrow will have enough trouble of its 
own. Izzy

RE: [TruthTalk] A review of Lance Muir




 






David cannot see his arrogance  (but who's 
judging?)JD, you are. 
 
 You Linda rejects 
authority   (go ahead  --  moderator  --   
and tell me the last time you "corrected"  her and received what you 
receive from the likes of me  --   that would be something 
like  "understood."What on earth are you rambling about 
here??? Izzy

RE: [TruthTalk] Exerpts




I have no idea what that was supposed to mean.  So Methodists 
don't have church services? 


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 2:41 
PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] 
Exerpts

(the fact that 
Methodists were having a 'church' service iz really significant--the word 
'church' in its context unravels the) myth
 
On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 09:42:55 -0500 "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
writes:

  
  Methodist
  ||
  
  

  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  On Behalf Of 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 9:15 
  PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] 
  Exerpts
   
  
  what 
  church?
  
   
  
  On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:24:05 -0500 "ShieldsFamily" 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  writes:
  
  ..a church 
  service..in which the “Reverend” was a 
  lesbian

RE: [TruthTalk] Exerpts

Pr 15:8 The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD
Pr 15:26 The thoughts of the wicked are an abomination to the LORD
Pr 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.
Pr 21:4 the plowing of the wicked, is sin.
Even the "best" of the wicked is an Abomination to God!
Even the work (plowing) turns God's stomach.ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:









Excellent points, Judy.  Worship can be acceptable or unacceptable to God.  If it feels good, it isnt necessarily acceptable to Him.  I sat in on part of a church service in which the Reverend was a lesbian, and the congregation was filled with sodomites.  They were quite into their communal worship as they hugged each other and rejoiced in the fact that God loved them so much they could come out of the closet.  I had to leave when they started handing out communion as I just couldnt stomach watching that sacrilege.  It was enough to make even me throw up.  Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy TaylorSent: Friday, June 03, 2005 1:59 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] Exerpts
 

 

 

On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:48:10 -0400 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:


Worship shapes our spirituality

"...our spirituality is usually shaped more by the experience of communal worship than it is by preaching and teachingthe way we think about God and relate to God is influenced enormously by our experience of God in communal worship..Songs are especially formative. We are far more likely to find ourselves humming something we sang in church when we go home than we are to find ourselves meditating on a phrase in the sermon..(not one of yours, of course)..

 

jt: I would disagree with the above statement Lance - Is it yours?  Actually spirituality shapes worship rather than vice-versa because true

worship depends upon a correct heart attitude and we do not enter God's presence just any old way - We must properly prepare ourselves to worship.. And God does not accept all of it.  He spoke through the prophet Amos and told the Israel of that day that their feasts and worship times literally made him want to vomit ... He also spoke through the prophet Isaiah about a crowd who were pretty pleased with themselves and these descended into sheol rejoicing.

 

Christian philosopher and scientist Michael Polanyi spoke of knowledge that we simply absorb by a kind of 'osmosis' without even realizing that we have done so. This is what he refers to as 'tacit knowledge' Most Christians simply imbibe a theology through the way that they worship.

 

jt:  This is not the way anyone is to learn let alone Christians. This is how the animals perform (by instinct).  Humans must be taught, we have been given a mind so that we can think and God will reveal Himself to whomsoever He will. The only ones who imbibe should be drunks.

 

.theology springs from right worship but theology also, in turn, guides and ensures right worship.There is a circular relationship between the two as healthy worship and theology support each otherhow theology can guide the kind of worship that in turn shapes people spirituality.

 

jt: Just like your little trinitarian dance, round and round and round we go... 

 

 

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RE: [TruthTalk] Exerpts




You are so right.  An adversarial relationship, but a 
relationship for sure. Izzy


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 4:02 
PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] 
Exerpts



myth (read:lie)  :  Gary O has no relationship with the Word of 
God 
 
JD  -Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 
14:01:25 -0600Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Exerpts






Isaiah's point about false worship solidifies in 
ch2, relates to 'trusting in man'; in ch5, Isaiah condemns the 
arrogant attitude/s of God's people; e.g., '..you live alone in the 
land'  (5:8), a criticism of their 
economics which reflects their real poverty (lording 
themselves over the poor)..apparently such poverty results primarily 
from man-centeredness witnessed in the philosophy partic 
of the/ir religious establishment (cp. 3:12, 14); 
also, 
5:14 does not mention 'hell'--its about a blessed society trapped in the 
throes of (its) spiritual suicide
 
On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:44:34 -0400 Judy Taylor 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

  . read ..Isaiah 
5:13,14

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:WWCofG lives on

JD said Years ago, when I too, was a legalist
Ha HA ha HA Ha HA Ha HA Ha HA Ha!
Ha HA ha HA Ha HA Ha HA Ha HA Ha! 
Ha HA ha HA Ha HA Ha HA Ha HA Ha!
Ha HA ha HA Ha HA Ha HA Ha HA Ha!
Ha HA ha HA Ha HA Ha HA Ha HA Ha!
Ha HA ha HA Ha HA Ha HA Ha HA Ha!Ha HA ha HA Ha HA Ha HA Ha HA Ha!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Years ago, when I too, was a legalist,  I enjoyed listening to Herbert W Armstrong and Garner Ted. 
 
But they lost me with their emphasis on the Old LAw.  Many of their arguments  --  such as "against evolution"  --  were actually very good.  
 
Anyway  --   Carner Ted did the twist with one of the sisters and Herbert died in the mid 80"s
 
and something very unusual happened to this fellowship.  I don't know what to think about all the changes,  but one very important change was the "end of the law" and life in a relationship with the Christ.
 
You just might find this article interesting.   
 
http://www.wcg.org/lit/AboutUs/history.htm
 
 
 
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Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz





Judy Taylor wrote:

  
  
  
  I have no idea what is going on in the
Congo Terry, and I suggest that you don't either.  Not really.  I've
had enough going on here in my own home
for the past two weeks to keep me more than busy.  I'm sorry you
think I am cold
  hearted and unloving but I still need the
confirmation and witness of the Holy Spirit before begging God to do
something when He knows the details much better than me .. Don't you
think He is able to put it on the heart of some intercessor if that is
what it would take?  jt

===

Let me ask a question, Judy.  Do you pray about your problems at home,
or has the Holy Spirit not led you to do that?

   
   I have a friend there who is a missionary in Africa, Judy.  His
parents are in our home church.   Let me suggest that I know what goes
on there and since there is nothing else I can do, I pray about it. 
Let me also suggest that you do not want to know about the troubles of
others, part of the reason being that you have your own problems to
deal with.
  

If you ever solve those problems at home, you might want to read about
the good Samaritan.  Jesus will point out plainly to you just who is
your neighbor.  The Pharisees could not entertain the thought of God
loving some some foriegner as much as He loved them.  They weren't
about to love some stranger as they loved themselves.  I hope that is
not the case with you, 'cause it was sin then and it is sin now.

I am sorry that I saw you as cold hearted and unloving too.  It was a
big disappointment.
Terry

Re: [TruthTalk] Exerpts

Are you stuck in a RUT man?
 
Everything you post is either "MYTH" or "DUALISM"[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




dualistically, then, false worship depends on an incorrect heart attitude
 
On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 15:58:39 -0400 Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

true worship depends upon a correct heart attitude
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Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

MT 23 "for they say, and do not."
TALK is Cheap.
Tell us what you are DOING, not just what you are talking, JD & Lance.David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Lance wrote:> I was simply alluding to those on TT who believe> that God 'incarnated' in book form as opposed> to a human being. (You, David, Judy and Izzie)I wouldn't use the word 'incarnated' but because you threw my name into the mix, I suppose you are addressing my great respect for Scripture. Don't you think Jesus also respected Scripture the way that we do?Consider the straining at the letter of Scripture that Jesus does in the following passage:John 10:34-36(34) Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?(35) If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;(36) Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?Besides Jesus demonstrating here
 that he is a legalist, he illustrates respect for every jot and tittle of Scripture. And why not, he also taught that no jot or tittle would fail until heaven and earth pass away.Matthew 5:17-18(17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.(18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.Remember too that Jesus encouraged his disciples to listen and obey those expounders of Scripture whom many on TruthTalk would label as legalists.Matthew 23:2-3(2) Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:(3) All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.So who here is walking in the tradition of Jesus Christ? Is it those who greatly respect the Scriptures and follow it closely, or
 is it those who think it would be evil legalism to do so?Peace be with you.David Miller. --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

I asked you before what you were DOING. You did not want to answer because it is not important. Right!
 
What gets it DONE JD?
Tell us how you do it.
 
Is this not a REAL ISSUE? Then don't avoid it. 
Just come out and admit it, you are DOING _[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Hidding behind tough words don't get it done, Deegan.    Just another way of avoiding the real and important issues.  
 
JD -Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:52:25 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz



These deaths add daily to the cumulative total of 3.8 million fatalities since the crisis began in August
 
Why don't you go over there and do something about it?
Talk is cheap!Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:







It's truly uncomfortable is it not? When (in print) you sound, often, like someone so ?yuck! Do be faithful to one of your own, Iz. Joe looks down from 'the great 'hearing in the sky.' He's on the lookout for 'commies' like homeland security is on the lookout for terrorists. It's the head in the sand thingy, Iz.
 
You want serious? I'll give you serious! Does anyone out there know the following: One thousand people die every day in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and nearly half of these deaths are accounted for by children under five years of age.  These deaths add daily to the cumulative total of 3.8 million fatalities since the crisis began in August, 1998 to the end of April 2004.  This makes the DRC conflict worse than any other conflict since the end of World War II and in terms of death toll exceeds other recent crises, including Bosnia (estimated 250,000 dead), Rwanda (800,000), Kosovo (12,000),. and Darfur in Sudan (70,000)
 
Despite this, the international community has failed to take the necessary action to alleviate the crisis.  During 2004, only 42% of funding sought by the United Nations for its activities had been raised by August, while contributions by the United Sates Agency for International Assistance to DRC for 2004 have declined by almost 25% when compared with 2003.  "No other recent confllict has claimed as many lives and mortality rates remain elevated at an alarming level.  In spite of these unambiguous facts, the international community has not yet mobilized the necessary will or resources to effectively address the crisis," according to the latest mortality study, a joint effort by the New York based International Rescue Committee (IRC) and Australia's Burnet Institute.

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: June 03, 2005 14:27
Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz


Oh, good grief---why is it that liberals always fall back on those old tried and true names to call other people? If it isn?t ?Hitler? it?s ?McCarthy?.  Get a new, but more creative insult please.  Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, June 03, 2005 11:47 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
 

So then Kevin, in  Senator McCarthy like fashion you hurl out accusations sans proof in the hope that the accusation itself will serve you well enough! I'd have though as much.


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Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

One thousand people die every day in the Democratic Republic of Congo 
 
 
So What are you doing about it? Hypocrit!

MT 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


If this was a source of oil Kevin, your country WOULD BE THERE! Terry sees this.

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: June 03, 2005 16:52
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

These deaths add daily to the cumulative total of 3.8 million fatalities since the crisis began in August
 
Why don't you go over there and do something about it?
Talk is cheap!Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:








It's truly uncomfortable is it not? When (in print) you sound, often, like someone so ?yuck! Do be faithful to one of your own, Iz. Joe looks down from 'the great 'hearing in the sky.' He's on the lookout for 'commies' like homeland security is on the lookout for terrorists. It's the head in the sand thingy, Iz.
 
You want serious? I'll give you serious! Does anyone out there know the following: One thousand people die every day in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and nearly half of these deaths are accounted for by children under five years of age.  These deaths add daily to the cumulative total of 3.8 million fatalities since the crisis began in August, 1998 to the end of April 2004.  This makes the DRC conflict worse than any other conflict since the end of World War II and in terms of death toll exceeds other recent crises, including Bosnia (estimated 250,000 dead), Rwanda (800,000), Kosovo (12,000),. and Darfur in Sudan (70,000)
 
Despite this, the international community has failed to take the necessary action to alleviate the crisis.  During 2004, only 42% of funding sought by the United Nations for its activities had been raised by August, while contributions by the United Sates Agency for International Assistance to DRC for 2004 have declined by almost 25% when compared with 2003.  "No other recent confllict has claimed as many lives and mortality rates remain elevated at an alarming level.  In spite of these unambiguous facts, the international community has not yet mobilized the necessary will or resources to effectively address the crisis," according to the latest mortality study, a joint effort by the New York based International Rescue Committee (IRC) and Australia's Burnet Institute.

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: June 03, 2005 14:27
Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz


Oh, good grief---why is it that liberals always fall back on those old tried and true names to call other people? If it isnt Hitler its McCarthy.  Get a new, but more creative insult please.  Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, June 03, 2005 11:47 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
 

So then Kevin, in  Senator McCarthy like fashion you hurl out accusations sans proof in the hope that the accusation itself will serve you well enough! I'd have though as much.


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Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity

No sense in wasting the keystrokes you would not get it. Just like you don't get the Bible.
Prov 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

And your point  --  that we must shave our heads, worship flat on the ground while tearing our clothing? ??

JD  -Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:48:49 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity

JOB And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house: And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them: And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The Chaldeans made out three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have carried them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their
 eldest brother's house: And, behold, there came a grea t wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped,[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

Good comments.   My wife and I do not look to songs for didache  --  rather we score high a service that allows us to praise God and give Him His righteous due.   Perhaps reflective of how we approach the Faith in total.  

JD  -Original Message-From: Christine Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:47:35 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity

> It plays a very important part in
> the discipline of spiritual growth.

Amen. I realized recently that the worship songs I
sing have taught me a sort of spiritual jealousy,
where I wanted to mean those songs from my heart when
I sang them. This one song had a line "You can offer
her anything her affections are all for Him only,"
that showed me how I should desire my God. Though I
wouldn't rate it over preaching and teaching, as
quoted in Lance's post, I do love worship!

Blessings!

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>  
>   
>  
> Worship shapes our spirituality
> "...our spirituality is usually shaped more by the
> experience of communal worship than it is by
> preaching and teachingthe way we think about God
> and relate to God is influenced enormously by our
> experience of God in communal worship..Songs are
> especially formative. We are far more likely to find
> ourselves humming something we sang in church when
> we go home than we are to find ourselves meditating
> on a phrase in the sermon..(not one of yours, of
> course)..Christian philosopher and scientist Michael
> Polanyi spoke of knowledge that we simply absorb by
> a kind of 'osmosis' without even realizing that we
> have done so. This is what he refers to as 'tacit
> knowledge' Most Christians simply imbibe a theology
> through the way that they worship.
> .theology springs from right worship but theology
> also, in turn, guides and ensures right
> worship.There is a circular relationship between the
> two as healthy worship and theology support each
> otherhow theology can guide the kind of worship
> that in turn shapes people spirituality.
>  
>  
> How very true, for my wife and I, at least.  Our
> "church of choice" is Valley Christian Center in
> Fresno.   It is a 2000 member congregation with,
> perhaps, the best comtemporary worship service in
> the area.   What Polanyi speaks of in the above
> quote is, perhaps, the same as that referenced by
> Paul in Eph. 5:18-20.   There, spirit filling is an
> experience received on any occasion the community of
> saints gather togather in the sharing of song and
> spiritual hymns.   It plays a very important part in
> the discipline of spiritual growth.   Too much
> attention to the negatives expressed by some saints
> (including ourselves)  often counters the joy and
> peace derived from these times of worhsip.  
>  
> Thanks for the words
>  
> JD
> 

__
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"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how 
you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not w

Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity

I don't know about your case but maybe you do need a rest.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I rest my case !!!  

JD  -Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:42:22 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity

NO

ain't you been to the Mecca?
down in the Holla were the snake handler's go.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Having trouble with the phrase "do   you   know    what I mean  by  "sinless" 
perfection?"

JD  -Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:44:39 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity

do you know what I mean by "sinless perfectionism?"

Your definition or the standard, which do you want?
It is some kinda KENtuckee snake handler![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Why suddenly so concerned for the truth, Deegan?  do you know what I mean by "sinless perfectionism?"

Jd  -Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:16:17 -0700 (PDT)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity

You are accusing him of something he has never professed. 
Standard "fair" for this crowd!
Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 07:25:57 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

You are such a bore, David.   If one eats nearly all the time  --  postponement is a good thing.  If one thinks to stop at Burger King for the third time today, postponement is a good thing.  And it is not eating more often, David;  it is eating smaller meals more often   --  postponement working again.  If I think to eat a candy bar after hours,  postponement is a good thing.   

What is wrong with you ppl - you break the Royal Law so far as David Miller is concerned daily.  Where's the love??
You are quick to throw out everything but Christ's two commandments and you break both on a daily basis.

And why do I think it will work with sin   --   because I am told that if I flee youthful lusts,  I will have victory   --  on any occasion thaI I do  this, a victory will be mine.   The addict, if not miraculously delivered  (and most [say 99%] are not),  his only hope is sin management  --  postponement.  If the postponement is successful, he can build on that success.  

This must be where your "incarnational gospel" fails.  Jesus did not go to the cross for "sin management"  He defeated sin and freed us from it's inheritance, power, and presence ... However, this reality seems to threaten you.

"  ...  who do not sin  ."   No one on this list fits that description, David   --   lest of which is you.  Let me make myself clear:  THE number one reason why I do not believe in sinless perfectionism is YOU.  That's it.  

You are accusing him of something he has never professed. I have read DM's views on sin and have seen him admit that he misses it, repents and goes on.  When consistent that sin should eventually fall away.  Why do you persist in accusing him?  The blood of bulls and goats covered sin which was a type of sin management.  The blood of Christ remits them.  Big difference.

You is the reason for the season.  I think it funny that you equate "humility" with my giving attention to you or people like you.   Arrogance, pride and conceit plague us all, don't they David?  

You may speak for yourself - otherwise all you are doing is becoming the devil's advocate JD.

Back to "postponement."  Eatng  is not my only issue  --  and the management principle has, in deed, worked in a number of areas in my life.   JD

Management does not get rid of the problem. This is what Israel thought they would do when God told them to get rid of the Canaanite Nations.  They partially obeyed but decided to allow some to stay and be water carriers for them and these enemies rose up and bit them in the rear end.  Something to think about.  jt

  -Original Message-From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 06:43:36 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity

John wrote:
> I was illustrating "sin management,"   David.
> Who said anything about slowing down ones
> metabolism?   No me.   But let's stay on track
> and avoid a food fight.

You were using the problem of obesity to illustrate the value of sin 
management.  You used the postponement of eating as an analogy to validate 
the concept of postponing sin.  Well, if it does not work for fat people, 
why do you think it will work with sin?  Let's just say that I was drawing 
upon your analogy for two reasons:  1) to help anyone struggling with being 
overweight, and 2) to illustrate that your teaching concerning sin is 
probably about just as effective as your success in managing your weight.

Look, you have told us often that you are fat and that you continue to sin. 
Why do you presume to teach us how to manage these issues?  Don't you think 
a little more humility is in order?  How abou

Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

So in the interest of Truth what accusations have I hurled without proof?
 
Answer here 
 
See Lance dance
Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


What I said concerning JM still stands. I'd not expect you to do the necessary legwork to establish this so, why not return to the issue that precipitated the comparison? Most of the Bibles on the globe are neither KJV nor are they KJV derivatives. You do know this do you not? I was simply alluding to those on TT who believe that God 'incarnated' in book form as opposed to a human being. (You, David, Judy and Izzie)
 
- Original Message - 

From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: June 03, 2005 16:36
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

Senator McCarthy 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism
Recently declassified Soviet-era documents have, in fact, confirmed that Soviet spies had infiltrated the U.S. State Department in the 1930s and 1940s
 
He was right all along!
So in the interest of Truth what accusations have I hurled without proof?
Answer here ___
Or is it you that is hurling?
Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


So then Kevin, in  Senator McCarthy like fashion you hurl out accusations sans proof in the hope that the accusation itself will serve you well enough! I'd have though as much.

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: June 03, 2005 13:41
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

When I find one with error I throw it back on the Trash heap where it came from.
How much more REsearch do I need when I know about Judith?
 
Some translations will require more research, but since I talk no foriegn Languages, I do not need to concern myself with such, EH?Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


This then is your direct answer to my direct question?

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: June 03, 2005 12:45
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

Ask JudithLance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 


Do you happen to know for a certainty upon which mss all foreign translation are based?

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: June 03, 2005 08:22
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

You asked me not to give a smart remark. I complied. I answered as best I could since I really did not understand your question 
 
State it more clearly & I will answer. I do not evade questions. 
The new bible problem exists in other languages also.
There are plenty of translations based on the Textus Receptus in other languages that are the pure word of God for the people of that language.
There are also corrupt bibles in those languages based on the corrupt greek text of the Jesuits Westcott & Hort 
 
Who worships pages, covers and indexing?
Looks like you are the one that needs to lighten up, how absurd!
Why is it that you inteligensia always have to mischaracterize?
Why not deal with the issue unless it is you who is not able to.
I guess this is the best you can do given the facts.
Fact is the new bibles are hopelessly corrupted.
 
Are far as lightening up, I will never as long as God gives me strength. 
I do not want to face His rebuke, for suffering FALSE Teachers! 
Rev 2:20 I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
 
WWJD
What would JUDITH do?Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


This is both evasive and, a non-answer. I've done the same myself multitudinous times on TT so, I can't hold your feet to the fire. However, one can't fail to notice that both Christine and yourself have no real answer for this reality. Which reality? The reality that the majority (pun intended) of believers on the globe read from a bible which is not the counterpart to the KJV. May I ask those of you (Kevin, Christine and David) who worship the pages, covers and indexing to lighten up a bit and, let God be God. 

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: June 02, 2005 21:23
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

The Bibles that have out & out lies and ERRORS in them can not possibly be God's word.
It may say Bible, it may look like a Bible, but a FALSE WITNESS utters lies!
 
The Word of God is recorded in the Bible that we may know what is required of us and that we might DO IT!
 
 Tell me what you make of that observation.
Well obviously those that do not speak ENGLISH would have a Bible that is based on the Recieved text.
Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


It is wise for one to remember that the Word of God is Jesus Christ. It is also wise to remember that His (God's) Words do not return void. Take care, Kevin, not confuse your role with that of the Spi

Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

You are so confused.
 
I can not decide whether you puroposefully misrepresent my beliefs or if you are just not able to comprehend them.
 
 
 
Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


What I said concerning JM still stands. I'd not expect you to do the necessary legwork to establish this so, why not return to the issue that precipitated the comparison? Most of the Bibles on the globe are neither KJV nor are they KJV derivatives. You do know this do you not? I was simply alluding to those on TT who believe that God 'incarnated' in book form as opposed to a human being. (You, David, Judy and Izzie)
 
- Original Message - 

From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: June 03, 2005 16:36
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

Senator McCarthy 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism
Recently declassified Soviet-era documents have, in fact, confirmed that Soviet spies had infiltrated the U.S. State Department in the 1930s and 1940s
 
He was right all along!
So in the interest of Truth what accusations have I hurled without proof?
Answer here ___
Or is it you that is hurling?
Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


So then Kevin, in  Senator McCarthy like fashion you hurl out accusations sans proof in the hope that the accusation itself will serve you well enough! I'd have though as much.

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: June 03, 2005 13:41
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

When I find one with error I throw it back on the Trash heap where it came from.
How much more REsearch do I need when I know about Judith?
 
Some translations will require more research, but since I talk no foriegn Languages, I do not need to concern myself with such, EH?Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


This then is your direct answer to my direct question?

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: June 03, 2005 12:45
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

Ask JudithLance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 


Do you happen to know for a certainty upon which mss all foreign translation are based?

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: June 03, 2005 08:22
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

You asked me not to give a smart remark. I complied. I answered as best I could since I really did not understand your question 
 
State it more clearly & I will answer. I do not evade questions. 
The new bible problem exists in other languages also.
There are plenty of translations based on the Textus Receptus in other languages that are the pure word of God for the people of that language.
There are also corrupt bibles in those languages based on the corrupt greek text of the Jesuits Westcott & Hort 
 
Who worships pages, covers and indexing?
Looks like you are the one that needs to lighten up, how absurd!
Why is it that you inteligensia always have to mischaracterize?
Why not deal with the issue unless it is you who is not able to.
I guess this is the best you can do given the facts.
Fact is the new bibles are hopelessly corrupted.
 
Are far as lightening up, I will never as long as God gives me strength. 
I do not want to face His rebuke, for suffering FALSE Teachers! 
Rev 2:20 I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
 
WWJD
What would JUDITH do?Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


This is both evasive and, a non-answer. I've done the same myself multitudinous times on TT so, I can't hold your feet to the fire. However, one can't fail to notice that both Christine and yourself have no real answer for this reality. Which reality? The reality that the majority (pun intended) of believers on the globe read from a bible which is not the counterpart to the KJV. May I ask those of you (Kevin, Christine and David) who worship the pages, covers and indexing to lighten up a bit and, let God be God. 

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: June 02, 2005 21:23
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

The Bibles that have out & out lies and ERRORS in them can not possibly be God's word.
It may say Bible, it may look like a Bible, but a FALSE WITNESS utters lies!
 
The Word of God is recorded in the Bible that we may know what is required of us and that we might DO IT!
 
 Tell me what you make of that observation.
Well obviously those that do not speak ENGLISH would have a Bible that is based on the Recieved text.
Lance Muir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


It is wise for one to remember that the Word of God is Jesus Christ. It is also wise to remember that His (God's) Words do not return void. Take care, Kevin, not confuse your role with that of the Spirit of

Re: [TruthTalk] A public request to DaveH







Lance Muir wrote:

  
  
  
  You've outlined your reasons for
being here on numerous occasions, Dave. You write well. You read well.
You've undoubtedly learned much. 

DAVEH:  Thank you for the kind words, Lance.   Though I'm not sure I
quite deserve them

  Would you kindly consider the
following:
   
  1. Write a description of Mormonism,
as if you were a non-Mormon, utilizing the information you've gleaned
while being a participant on TT?

DAVEH:   I'm afraid I don't know how to do that.  I think I am far too
biased to ever write such from a non-LDS viewpoint.

   
  2. Write a description of
Evangelicalism, from a Mormon persepctive, utilizing the information
you've gleaned while being a participant on TT?

DAVEH:   ???   I'm not sure I can do that either.  What I see on TT
appears not to be evangelism from my (LDS biased) perspective.  Maybe
if you would define it as you perceive it, the perhaps I could offers
my thoughts.  

    Let me explain how I perceive evangelism, and then you can correct
(or enlighten) me if I am wrong.  I see evangelism as a way or calling
to spread the gospel of the Lord.  I don't see that happening in TT
though.  While many have expressed a desire to bring others to Jesus,
what appears to happen on TT is quite the opposite.  What is said seems
to have more an opposing force, rather than an attractive effect.

    Let me give you an example.  To a committed Mormon, having their
holy underwear waved in their faces at Conference time is an
abomination, and would cause many to recoil rather than be attracted to
the message.  Similarly, if another TTer takes what I find holy and
tries to embarrass me with it in TT, would you think I would be
attracted to the person trying to denigrate my beliefs?  So where's
evangelism in TT?  Instead I see strife and intended conflict.  It
almost seems some folks are here to witness the blood an carnage, if
not being the perpetrators of such themselves.  Maybe it's like a
wrestling match.  Do people really watch wrestling to see good triumph
over evil, or do they instead simply want to see two guys brutalize one
another.  IOWthe more blood drawn, the more enthused the crowd. 
Those who do not enjoy seeing the blood, simply leave the arena after
getting their fill of it.  Perhaps those of us who remain have a high
capacity for the talk that is less true and more battle.  SoHas TT
merely become a spectator sport in a virtual world of TruthTalk
gladiators and not much else?

   
  It need not be some multi-page,
to-be-published, document. Just do what you've already demonstrated
that you do well.

DAVEH:  I may have failed you on that one, Lance.  I don't think I can
step aside my LDS biases enough to give you that view.  And, I suspect
we have two strikingly different understandings of evangelism.  If you
want me to elaborate, you'll have to define evangelism as you
understand it.

   
  I. and every thoughtful participant
on TT, understands that you draw a distinction between believers &
non-believers which places 'us' in
the NB category.

DAVEH:  Not at all, Lance.  As far as I've seen, I think all TTers are
believers.  We just don't believe all the same things.  For that
matter, I don't think there are any two TTers who believe alike.  But
in my book, that doesn't mean they are all unbelievers.  

 As I see it though, believing is simply not enough to achieve
salvation.

   
   I'm genuinely interested in this.
Unless the moderator objects

DAVEH:  You mean besides objecting to my definition of
evangelism, or do you think he will object to me teaching you
what I think?  :-) 

   I'd really like to hear you on both
of the above.
   
  Lance
   
   


-- 
 ~~~
 Dave Hansen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.langlitz.com
 ~~~
 If you wish to receive
 things I find interesting,
 I maintain six email lists...
 JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
 STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH





DAVEH:   ???  I don't see where Blaine guessed at anything, or that he
implied he made up a definition for priestcraft.   I felt he was merely
explaining how he understands it so any confusion would be minimized. 
Even if he had not had a previous knowledge or understanding of
its true definition.then his guess would still have been accurate,
would it not?  Yet you would criticize him for guessing the
truth?  Wowyou are a pretty tough critic, Perry.

    Perhaps that explains a lot of why you find fault with what Mormons
believe.  Even if they believe something correctly (from your
perception), they are at fault because of simply being LDS.  In effect,
any truth spoken by a Mormon is inherently false, from your
perspectiveis that correct, Perry?

    Interestingly, Blaine even explained his understanding of the
definition so that if you or anybody else had a different definition,
there would be no room for confusion.  In effect he was trying to make
sure there was no misunderstanding from a difference of definitions so
that you would not find a reason to be critical.  Yet that's exactly
what you did anyway, is it not?

    IMO, the ax you grind against Mormonism is getting duller the more
you grind, Perry.

Charles Perry Locke wrote:
Dave, Blaine wrote, "Priestcraft is, by my  definition,"
which admits that he guessed at or made the definition up that suits
him. Had he said "according to Webster's", or " the definition of
Priestcraft is" I could not have made the assertion I made.
  
  
Perry
  
  
  From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 12:33:09 -0700


DAVEH:  According to the dictionary definition, it's obvious Blaine was
not making it up as your below assertion, Perry





...Will Blaine receive a forthcoming apology?


Charles Perry Locke wrote:


I never use the term, and have no
definition. But if I wanted one I would see if there was a comon usage
for the term. I wouldn't make up my own definition to fit my own
desires.
  
  
  
So, what is your definition of "priestcraft,"  Perry?

Blaine



In a message dated 6/3/2005 7:17:13 AM Mountain Standard Time,

[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


>Blaine wrote:  Priestcraft is, by my  definition, ...


Here we go again...the mormons like to  make up their own meanings for

words, to suit thier own personal  perception of the world. I call this
the

"Queen of Hearts" syndrome:  "Words mean exactly what I want them to
mean!"


When a  person is steeped in a culture in which the cultural leaders

redefine  words to have untraditional meanings, for the purpose of
making the


culture appear to be other than it really is, this begins to affect
it's

adherents, as we see with Blaine above, and have recently seen with
DaveH  in

his limited definition of the word "teach", which exclusdes his own 
actions

on TT.


Another case in point is the Clinton  case where his attempt tp liimit
the

definition of certain words and  phrases to exclude his own actions has
been

passed down to our youth, who  at times use these tactics to try to
exclude

thier own  actions.


Another, but inverse,  example is the word  "homophobe". In this case
the

definition of the word has been EXPANDED to  include not only those who
fear

homosexuality (traditional definition),  but to include those who
beleive

that it is sinful behavior.


The root of this is in the "politically correct" movement, where it
does

not matter what you feel or believe, but how you are  perceived.



Wow. What a  world!


Perry


  

  


-- 
 ~~~
 Dave Hansen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.langlitz.com
 ~~~
 If you wish to receive
 things I find interesting,
 I maintain six email lists...
 JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
 STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

DAVEH:  I seeyou want to define teaching by using me as an example, 
eh Perry.  Instead of spinning it that way, I chose to use a definition 
consistent with my perception of what teaching means to TTers.  You 
might consider it to be culturally and contextually more meaningful.


Charles Perry Locke wrote:

Dave, pick a definition, any definition. Just don't pick one that 
labels what you do as "teaching".


DAVEH:  FWIW Perry, you may be the one trying to change the culture 
(see below), so to speak.  As I pointed out, there are many 
definitions of teach, but the one I feel is appropriate for TT agrees 
with what DavidM posted today about the meaning of teaching 
(/sermonizing)/..


DavidM wrote:

Actually, he does tell the saints that they come together to GIVE a 
sermon, and such implies that there will be some there to HEAR a 
sermon.   :-)


1 Corinthians 14:26
(26) How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of 
you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, 
hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.


Notice the word "doctrine" in this list of what the Corinthian 
believers were doing when the whole church comes together.  *This is 
teaching -- a sermon. *



...Do you think what I post qualifies as sermons?Furthermore, 
do you really think other TTers have joined TT to listen to me 
/sermonizing?  / Therefore Perry, is it not you who wants to use 
another definition in an attempt to change the culture here?


Charles Perry Locke wrote:



When a  person is steeped in a culture in which the cultural leaders
redefine  words to have untraditional meanings, for the purpose of 
making the


culture appear to be other than it really is , this begins to 
affect it's
adherents, as we see with Blaine above, and have recently seen with 
DaveH  in
his limited definition of the word "teach", which exclusdes his 
own  actions

on TT.




--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.


--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
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Re: [TruthTalk] A review of Lance Muir


  



These quotes make my point JD, especially the last one ...  You and he seem to like the word substantive. jt
 
 
Better than "the movies" and "Bobby Dylan ?"     
 
Anyway  --  you and have no real reason for conversation.   .   I am sure you agree.   David cannot see his arrogance  (but who's judging?)   You are in an outrageous world of denial and Linda rejects authority   (go ahead  --  moderator  --   and tell me the last time you "corrected"  her and received what you receive from the likes of me  --   that would be something like  "understood."   
 
 
John

Re: [TruthTalk] A review of Lance Muir

These quotes make my point JD, especially the last one
... You and he seem to like the word substantive. jt
On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 16:43:58 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Given enough time, I could offer perhaps a hundred such examples,
debunking Judy's claim that Lance is not concerned with
substantive matters.
I didn't say Lance was not concerned with matters
he thinks substantive. I said he was not rooted and grounded
in God's Word - HUGE difference.

Izzy says of Mormonism:'Not worth
'fighting' about.' I'm thinking she might wish to qualify that as the nature
of God and the Gospel are indeed worth very serious engagement ('fighting'
aside).
Biblical thought/question. Nothing wrong with this.
Hey! Who wants to go on a 'Lost
Books of the Bible' hunt? eh?
Lance disagrees with the Mormon?s
claim of lost NT Books - or, at least, that such a claim has
anything to do with the establishment of their World Religion.
'We are
whole people living whole lives before a holy God.' The dichotomization issue
is central. Thanks for raising it! Please do not forward this message to Tim
Horton's.Lance agreeing with Miller Yes to #1. No to #2. I believe you to be a faithful child of God who demonstrates more diligence than most of those I've met.
A comment addressed to Judy Taylor.
Jt:Do you have a friend who, on an issue of some substance, believes other than you
do? If you are praying for one another over this then, how is there to be a
satisfactory resolution?
A question ask
by Lance that seems to be a good question
Nine times out of ten, not unlike
in marriage or friendship, we accept one another including the distinctives. I
sense that that is what you do also, Linda. I saw a yound man last evening,
characterized by his mother as 'my dirty sweet boy'. His 'dirtyness' was
swallowed up in the ontological sweetness within
Mom and, in the young man.
Also yesterday, I had the pleasure
of talking with someone who sees both more and better than most I know
(ironically an optometrist). In her case I practice more deference than is
normal for me due to the perceived presence of God's
Spirit.
Lance believes in the Holy
Spirit.
Dave:IFF
'orthodoxy' has any intrinsic meaning whatsoever then, you are not.
This consideration might be based alone on the answer to the question posed by
Jesus Himself: 'Who do people say that I am?' This could not but place you,
and 'yours', in the camp of anti-orthodox Given this, I would not consider
your anti-christian (in the sense of 'orthodox') posts to be in any way
slanderous any more than I would a Muslim who proceded to speak of Jesus out
of his Koranic understanding. It is IMO
possible to preach an anti-christ message and live a genuinely christian
life.(We all do). This being said You know how it works - those who win
the war get to hold war crimes trials.
A substantive response by Lance. Food for thought whether you agree or
not.

Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz


 They ( Then)  why did Jesus blow it off by telling the disciples they would always have the poor .  Well, this is perhaps the most upsetting of my discussions here on TT.   I really have nothing more to say.  
 
We have virtually nothing in common.  You will not believe me, but I am going to think about what has just happened, do some praying  (part of it will be "intercessory" as we call it in the land of the Charismata)  and return.  
 
John Smithson


 
 
 
On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 17:54:58 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



What I believe, Judy, is that your response is one of the more bazaar comments entertained here on TT.   
In my book, David's " children sent to hell " comment is number 1;  
 
jt: What on earth are you talking about JD - Solomon?
 
this is number 2, for the time being.  You ask a question to which the answer would have absolutely no meaning to you  -- so why ask?   I mean, dead is dead  -- right?  
 
jt: I have no idea what you are referring to or talking about - what was the question?
 
We are not going to even entertain a benevolent emotion because they are better off dead anyway!!!   
 
jt: Your words not mine and again, I have no idea what you are talking about or referring to.
 
 That is not only nasty but gross and disgusting.   Yeah  !!!    It most definitely is not the widom of God.   On one hand we beat the banner for action in Iraq.   I am one who, thus far, thinks intervention in Iraq is a good thing.   But, for me, we should be there for the same reasons we should be in Durfar and the Congo and so on.   The fact that we are not in the Congo or Durfar is evidence , to me, that humanitarian concerns had nothing to do with our going to Iraq.   I believe that the people of that country benefitted from our hypocricy anyway. 
 
jt: It's good that you have opinions about all this JD.  I don't since I am not in the position to know all details
I leave that to the ppl God has placed in authority - the ones who make these kinds of decisions.
 
A position that ignores the blight of the poor and hungry finds people without a divine awareness, per Is 58:9-11.  
 
jt: They why did Jesus blow it off by telling the disciples they would always have the poor among them? I guess he
must have been void of divine awareness also.
 
What is critical in the Is 58 passage is the fact that the disciple is pictured as one who is searching for God, but finding Him only when a number of realities are entertained in his life  -   not the lest of which is the outpouring for the hungre and and afflicted.   Jd
 
jt: No JD; it is dealing with the sin in their lives as a whole - it is not playing God to the whole globe.  jt

Re: [TruthTalk] Exerpts




That is your myth (read lie) JD because I never 
made a statement anything like what you have written
below.  Did I say Gary O never reads the 
Bible? What I said is that he is not sufficiently rooted and grounded 

in God's Word to discern 
what is and what is not a genuine spiritual gift in operation.  Actually I 
suspect he
would say they are all bogus because of the fact that 
he is Calvinistic at heart.  jt
 
On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 18:01:59 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
  myth (read:lie)  :  Gary O has no relationship with the Word of 
  God 
   
  JD  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  

  
  

  
  Isaiah's point about false worship solidifies in 
  ch2, relates to 'trusting in man'; in ch5, Isaiah condemns the 
  arrogant attitude/s of God's people; e.g., '..you live alone in the 
  land'  (5:8), a criticism of their 
  economics which reflects their real poverty (lording 
  themselves over the poor)..apparently such poverty results 
  primarily from man-centeredness witnessed in the philosophy 
  partic of the/ir religious establishment (cp. 3:12, 14); 
  also, 
  5:14 does not mention 'hell'--its about a blessed society trapped in the 
  throes of (its) spiritual suicide
   
  On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:44:34 -0400 Judy Taylor 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
  
. read ..Isaiah 
  5:13,14

Re: [TruthTalk] [Bulk] Rmoderator Commant: was: Re: NIV Bible Quiz

2005-06-04 Thread Charles Perry Locke

Lance, I cannot disagree that Gary MAY have the gift of discernment. 
However, people with discernment also know WHY they discern the things they 
do.

From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] [Bulk] Rmoderator Commant: was: Re: NIV Bible Quiz
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 11:41:46 -0400

Gary might have the gift of discernment, Charles. If this is the case then,
simply 'discerning' (though he didn't, as you seem to suggest infer David
was a false prophet, IMO) is sufficient.

Why not let David take care of this privately?

- Original Message -
From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: June 04, 2005 11:32
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] [Bulk] Rmoderator Commant: was: Re: NIV Bible Quiz

> Gary, To call someone's comments a "myth" (even without any evidence)
> expresses your unsupported opinion. But, your parenthetical comment
equates
> David to a false prophet. Rather than level such an ad hominem attack,
> please provide exidence to support your claim or retract it.
>
> Perry the moderator
>
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> >To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> >Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
> >Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:51:16 -0600
> >
> >myth (false prophets speak of JC in the past tense for manipulative
> >personal reasons or as does the author, below)
> >
> >On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:09:38 -0400 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >writes:
> > >..Jesus also respected Scripture the way that we do.
>
>
> --
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
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know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
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ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Exerpts

2005-06-04 Thread ttxpress




(the fact that 
Methodists were having a 'church' service iz really significant--the word 
'church' in its context unravels the) myth
 
On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 09:42:55 -0500 "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
writes:

  
  Methodist
  ||
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  On Behalf Of 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 9:15 
  PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] 
  Exerpts
   
  
  what 
  church?
  
   
  
  On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:24:05 -0500 "ShieldsFamily" 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  writes:
  
  ..a church 
  service..in which the “Reverend” was a 
  lesbian

Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz




I have no idea what is going on in the Congo Terry, and 
I suggest that you don't either.  Not really.  I've had enough going 
on here in my own home for the past two weeks to keep 
me more than busy.  I'm sorry you think I am cold
hearted and unloving but I still need the 
confirmation and witness of the Holy Spirit before begging God to do something 
when He knows the details much better than me .. Don't you think He is able to 
put it on the heart of some intercessor if that is what it would take?  
jt
 
 
Terry writes:
To hear that brothers and sisters in Christ are being killed for no other 
reason but that they worship the true God, and then say "That's not my problem" 
is about as cold hearted and unloving as anything you could say, Judy.  I 
generally agree somewhat with what you say, but you are way off base this 
time.  I suggest you get on your knees and beg God to help these brothers 
and sisters.  Terry
 
On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 16:25:54 -0500 Terry Clifton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
writes:

  Judy Taylor wrote: 
  
Where they hacked to death by other believers in 
their church services JD?  If they are christians then I rejoice 
with them that they are now at a better place. Do 
you think God expects every believer to be responsible for every other believer no matter in what country in the 
world JD?  Should we hire the CIA to keep us up with what is 
going on?
 ==

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

2005-06-04 Thread Charles Perry Locke

Dave, pick a definition, any definition. Just don't pick one that labels 
what you do as "teaching".

From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 13:06:07 -0700

DAVEH:  FWIW Perry, you may be the one trying to change the culture (see 
below), so to speak.  As I pointed out, there are many definitions of 
teach, but the one I feel is appropriate for TT agrees with what DavidM 
posted today about the meaning of teaching (/sermonizing)/..

DavidM wrote:

Actually, he does tell the saints that they come together to GIVE a sermon, 
and such implies that there will be some there to HEAR a sermon.   :-)

1 Corinthians 14:26
(26) How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath 
a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an 
interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

Notice the word "doctrine" in this list of what the Corinthian believers 
were doing when the whole church comes together.  *This is teaching -- a 
sermon. *

...Do you think what I post qualifies as sermons?Furthermore, do 
you really think other TTers have joined TT to listen to me /sermonizing?  
/ Therefore Perry, is it not you who wants to use another definition in an 
attempt to change the culture here?

Charles Perry Locke wrote:

When a  person is steeped in a culture in which the cultural leaders
redefine  words to have untraditional meanings, for the purpose of making 
the

culture appear to be other than it really is , this begins to affect it's
adherents, as we see with Blaine above, and have recently seen with DaveH 
 in
his limited definition of the word "teach", which exclusdes his own  
actions

on TT.

--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

2005-06-04 Thread Charles Perry Locke

Dave, Blaine wrote, "Priestcraft is, by my  definition," which admits that 
he guessed at or made the definition up that suits him. Had he said 
"according to Webster's", or " the definition of Priestcraft is" I could not 
have made the assertion I made.


Perry


From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 12:33:09 -0700

DAVEH:  According to the dictionary definition, it's obvious Blaine was not 
making it up as your below assertion, Perry




...Will Blaine receive a forthcoming apology?

Charles Perry Locke wrote:

I never use the term, and have no definition. But if I wanted one I would 
see if there was a comon usage for the term. I wouldn't make up my own 
definition to fit my own desires.




So, what is your definition of "priestcraft,"  Perry?
Blaine


In a message dated 6/3/2005 7:17:13 AM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

>Blaine wrote:  Priestcraft is, by my  definition, ...

Here we go again...the mormons like to  make up their own meanings for
words, to suit thier own personal  perception of the world. I call this 
the
"Queen of Hearts" syndrome:  "Words mean exactly what I want them to 
mean!"


When a  person is steeped in a culture in which the cultural leaders
redefine  words to have untraditional meanings, for the purpose of making 
the


culture appear to be other than it really is, this begins to affect it's
adherents, as we see with Blaine above, and have recently seen with DaveH 
 in
his limited definition of the word "teach", which exclusdes his own  
actions

on TT.

Another case in point is the Clinton  case where his attempt tp liimit 
the
definition of certain words and  phrases to exclude his own actions has 
been
passed down to our youth, who  at times use these tactics to try to 
exclude

thier own  actions.

Another, but inverse,  example is the word  "homophobe". In this case the
definition of the word has been EXPANDED to  include not only those who 
fear

homosexuality (traditional definition),  but to include those who beleive
that it is sinful behavior.

The root of this is in the "politically correct" movement, where it does
not matter what you feel or believe, but how you are  perceived.


Wow. What a  world!

Perry



--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.





--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Exerpts


  



myth (read:lie)  :  Gary O has no relationship with the Word of God 
 
Gary is not a man of many words  --  kind of like Terry.   He may not seem as traditional in thought as some on this forum  --   but he is clearly concerned with the Word,  God in Christ and so on.    To argue otherwise is to pit a lie against the truth.   I will certainly go into the archives to demonstrate my point.  I have done that with Lance...successfully , I might add.   Do any doubt that this can be done with Mr. G?    Will there be moderated comments about bearing false witness now that someone on the "left" has proven the accepted gossip to be a untrue.   
 
JD  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 14:01:25 -0600Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Exerpts






Isaiah's point about false worship solidifies in ch2, relates to 'trusting in man'; in ch5, Isaiah condemns the arrogant attitude/s of God's people; e.g., '..you live alone in the land'  (5:8), a criticism of their economics which reflects their real poverty (lording themselves over the poor)..apparently such poverty results primarily from man-centeredness witnessed in the philosophy partic of the/ir religious establishment (cp. 3:12, 14); also, 5:14 does not mention 'hell'--its about a blessed society trapped in the throes of (its) spiritual suicide
 
On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:44:34 -0400 Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

. read ..Isaiah 5:13,14

Re: [TruthTalk] Exerpts


myth (read:lie)  :  Gary O has no relationship with the Word of God 
 
JD  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 14:01:25 -0600Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Exerpts






Isaiah's point about false worship solidifies in ch2, relates to 'trusting in man'; in ch5, Isaiah condemns the arrogant attitude/s of God's people; e.g., '..you live alone in the land'  (5:8), a criticism of their economics which reflects their real poverty (lording themselves over the poor)..apparently such poverty results primarily from man-centeredness witnessed in the philosophy partic of the/ir religious establishment (cp. 3:12, 14); also, 5:14 does not mention 'hell'--its about a blessed society trapped in the throes of (its) spiritual suicide
 
On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:44:34 -0400 Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

. read ..Isaiah 5:13,14

Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz





Judy Taylor wrote:

  
  
  Where they hacked to death by other
believers in their church services JD?  If they are christians then I
rejoice
  with them that they are now at a better
place. Do you think God expects every believer to be responsible for
  every other believer no matter in
what country in the world JD?  Should we hire the CIA to keep us up
with what is
  going on?
   

==
To hear that brothers and sisters in Christ are being killed for no
other reason but that they worship the true God, and then say "That's
not my problem" is about as cold hearted and unloving as anything you
could say, Judy.  I generally agree somewhat with what you say, but you
are way off base this time.  I suggest you get on your knees and beg
God to help these brothers and sisters.
Terry

Re: [TruthTalk] community and the Kingdom of God


Let's take the first paragraph of your response below:  tell me how you can read my article, with an honest heart, and conclude that it is written with a view of prersenting humanism as opposed to a God-centered faith?   I say that such is IMPOSSIBLE.   
 
JD  -Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 12:49:46 -0500Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] community and the Kingdom of God






Thanks for asking, JD.  To me humanism is the religion worshipping humans.  Putting humans and humanistic thinking ahead of God and thinking according to God?s Word.  I have no idea how DM would define it.  I also don?t appreciate your insinuation that I get my ideas from DM.  
 
Regarding your post, it sounded ?nice? and all.  But a religion that spends time promoting ?Community? is off-base IMO.  The true Church is not about promoting the community of humans, but is all about lifting up Jesus Christ as Lord of Lords and King of Kings.  The true community which springs from that as a byproduct is truly wonderful, as you seem to understand.  Izzy
 
PS Here is how a Humanist defines Humanism: http://www.jcn.com/humanism.html.  (Is it NOT Christianity.)
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 10:18 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] community and the Kingdom of God
 



Well, it most certainly is not humanism, Linda.   Or maybe I should ask what you think humanism is before going any further.  David M accused me of the same thing  -- perhaps this is where you got the idea.   He too, left off giving me a definition.   

 

What was written below is a first draft attempt at continuing the task of understanding, on my part.  It could not be more God centered  -- so how is it humanism.   What is you defintion?

 

Jd 
 -Original Message-From: ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 09:47:48 -0500Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] community and the Kingdom of God


JD, all this talk of community above everything else just comes across to me as humanism.  Lift us Jesus and all men will be drawn unto Him, and coincidentally to each other?s fellowship.  It?s a priority thing. Izzy

 





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 12:03 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] community and the Kingdom of God

 




 

  


Thinking Out Loud (again).  Some of these thoughts and  wording comes from From Cells to Souls  --  a section in that  book written by Alan Torrance.   The following is a combination of AT?s thinking and my understanding of the importance of his presentations.   


 


In search of a truly heuristic consequence,  many have involved themselves in the recovery of the gospel story as realized in the triune God and the Sonship of Christ. 


?Christians acknowledge that the complexity of the world is irreducible to anything other than the simplest explanation of all   ---   the God who has created persons in his image for personal communion with himself, with each other and, indeed,  with all the other sentient beings which contribute o to the richness of the world we know. ?  (p222).   And there you have it  --  ?the simplest explanation of all,?   that mankind has been created in His very image.   If there is another explanation for that image, certainly it must in clude the idea of ?community.? 


 


God loves the Son,  the Son loves the Father and the Holy Spirit is the _expression_ of each in this world and in the lives of those who are a part of His creation after The Reconciliation  (Col 1:17ff).


 


That being true,  the personal behavior of man is incomplete until expressed in the company of others  (p210).   Man was created for the expressed purpose of the expansion of community  (ye shall be fruitful and multiply) ?.. God?s covenant with Abraham had everything to do with the blessing of an increasing community of persons.  Israel was God manifest in national function.   His Christ was all about the reconciliation of all things  < /SPAN> --  a tearing down of the barriers erected in the garden, allowing the bridging of the divide created by man?s decision to chart his own course, to go his own way, to misappropr
iate the revealed word of the day  [?ye shall not surely die ]  &nb sp; His church is His bride, bearing the offspring of all that reveals His power and presence   --   a community of believers that live to reveal God to a lost and confused world.   He is the Father, we are his adoptive children.   Community is written on every page and thought of God?s dealings with man.   ?The relational dimens ion of human nature? is at the centre of our very being.  It is such because and only because we have been created in that image and for that purpose.   Community is not only the image of creative endeavor, it is

Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

2005-06-04 Thread ttxpress





prophets are 
unambiguous; conjecture is not prophecy, conjecturists are not 
prophets
 
ftr, your original 
comment, below, promotes a false, ambiguous idea of JC which you can 
not defend truthfully by defending your self 
 
On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:32:36 -0400 "David Miller" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
writes:>David Miller wrote:>>> ... Jesus also respected 
Scripture the way that we do.> >Gary wrote:>> myth 
(false prophets speak of JC in the past tense||
> 
[DavidM:]> If I had spoken in the present tense 

||

Re: [TruthTalk] A review of Lance Muir

Given enough time, I could offer perhaps a hundred such examples, debunking Judy's claim that Lance is not concerned with substantive matters.

Izzy says of Mormonism:'Not worth 'fighting' about.' I'm thinking she might wish to qualify that as the nature of God and the Gospel are indeed worth very serious engagement ('fighting' aside).
Biblical thought/question. Nothing wrong with this.
Hey! Who wants to go on a 'Lost Books of the Bible' hunt? eh?
Lance disagrees with the Mormon?s claim of lost NT Books - or, at least, that such a claim has anything to do with the establishment of their World Religion.
'We are whole people living whole lives before a holy God.' Thedichotomization issue is central. Thanks for raising it! Please do notforward this message to Tim Horton's. Lance agreeing with Miller
Yes to #1. No to #2. I believe you to be a faithful child of God who demonstrates more diligence than most of those I've met.
A comment addressed to Judy Taylor.
Jt:Do you have a friend who, on an issue of some substance, believes other than you do? If you are praying for one another over this then, how is there to be a satisfactory resolution?
A question ask by Lance that seems to be a good question
Nine times out of ten, not unlike in marriage or friendship, we accept one another including the distinctives. I sense that that is what you do also, Linda. I saw a yound man last evening, characterized by his mother as 'my dirty sweet boy'. His 'dirtyness' was swallowed up in the ontological sweetness within Mom and, in the young man.
Also yesterday, I had the pleasure of talking with someone who sees both more and better than most I know (ironically an optometrist). In her case I practice more deference than is normal for me due to the perceived presence of God's Spirit.
Lance believes in the Holy Spirit.
Dave:IFF 'orthodoxy' has any intrinsic meaning whatsoever then, you are not.This consideration might be based alone on the answer to the question posedby Jesus Himself: 'Who do people say that I am?' This could not but placeyou, and 'yours', in the camp of anti-orthodox Given this, I would notconsider your anti-christian (in the sense of 'orthodox') posts to be in anyway slanderous any more than I would a Muslim who proceded to speak of Jesusout of his Koranic understanding. It is IMO possible to preach an anti-christ message and live a genuinelychristian life.(We all do). This being said You know how it works - thosewho win the war get to hold war c
rimes trials.
A substantive response by Lance. Food for thought whether you agree or not.

Re: [TruthTalk] Exerpts

2005-06-04 Thread ttxpress





Isaiah's point about false worship solidifies in 
ch2, relates to 'trusting in man'; in ch5, Isaiah condemns the 
arrogant attitude/s of God's people; e.g., '..you live alone in the 
land'  (5:8), a criticism of their 
economics which reflects their real poverty (lording 
themselves over the poor)..apparently such poverty results primarily 
from man-centeredness witnessed in the philosophy partic 
of the/ir religious establishment (cp. 3:12, 14); 
also, 
5:14 does not mention 'hell'--its about a blessed society trapped in the 
throes of (its) spiritual suicide
 
On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:44:34 -0400 Judy Taylor 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

  . read ..Isaiah 
5:13,14

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

DAVEH: FWIW Perry, you may be the one trying to change the culture (see below), so to speak. As I pointed out,
there are many definitions of teach, but the one I feel is appropriate
for TT agrees with what DavidM posted today about the meaning of
teaching (sermonizing)..

DavidM wrote:

Actually, he does tell the saints that they come together to GIVE a sermon,
and such implies that there will be some there to HEAR a sermon. :-)

1 Corinthians 14:26
(26) How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath
a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an
interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

Notice the word "doctrine" in this list of what the Corinthian believers
were doing when the whole church comes together. This is teaching -- a
sermon.

...Do you think what I post qualifies as sermons? Furthermore,
do you really think other TTers have joined TT to listen to me sermonizing?
Therefore Perry, is it not you who wants to use another
definition in an attempt to change the culture here?

Charles Perry Locke wrote:

When a person is steeped in a culture in which the cultural leaders

redefine words to have untraditional meanings, for
the purpose of making the

culture appear to be other than it really is
, this begins to affect it's

adherents, as we see with Blaine above, and have recently seen with DaveH in

his limited definition of the word "teach", which exclusdes his
own actions

on TT.

--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] community and the Kingdom of God




I say Amen and well put to what Izzy writes here and 
would also like to point out that the "definition of Kingdom"
is much more than what it is not - which is meat 
and drink.  Jesus Himself said that when He cast out Satan 
with
the finger of God - then you may know that the Kingdom 
of God is come upon you.  It is "spiritual authority" -
All of this community business reminds me of Hillary 
Clinton and her "it takes a village to raise a child" mindset.
Also the way the trinity is conceptualized is bothers 
me a whole lot but I am not sure why; the Lord will reveal it
to me.  jt
 
On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 12:49:46 -0500 "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
writes:

  
  Thanks for asking, 
  JD.  To me humanism is the religion worshipping humans.  Putting 
  humans and humanistic thinking ahead of God and thinking according to God’s 
  Word.  I have no idea how DM would define it.  I also don’t 
  appreciate your insinuation that I get my ideas from DM.  
  
   
  Regarding your post, 
  it sounded “nice” and all.  But a religion that spends time promoting 
  “Community” is off-base IMO.  The true Church is not about promoting the 
  community of humans, but is all about lifting up Jesus Christ as Lord of Lords 
  and King of Kings.  The true community which springs from that as a 
  byproduct is truly wonderful, as you seem to understand.  
  Izzy
   
  PS Here is how a 
  Humanist defines Humanism: http://www.jcn.com/humanism.html. 
   (Is it NOT Christianity.)
   
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  On Behalf Of 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  
  
  Well, it most certainly is not 
  humanism, Linda.   Or maybe I should ask what you think humanism is 
  before going any further.  David M accused me of the same thing  -- 
  perhaps this is where you got the idea.   He too, left off giving me 
  a definition.   
  
   
  
  What was written below is a 
  first draft attempt at continuing the task of understanding, on my part.  
  It could not be more God centered  -- so how is it humanism.   
  What is you defintion?
  
   
  
  Jd 
  -Original 
  Message-From: ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 4 Jun 
  2005 09:47:48 -0500Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] community and the Kingdom of God
  
  
  JD, all this talk of 
  community above everything else just comes across to me as humanism.  
  Lift us Jesus and all men 
  will be drawn unto Him, and coincidentally to each other?s fellowship.  
  It?s a priority thing. Izzy
  
   
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  On Behalf Of 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 12:03 
  AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] community and 
  the Kingdom of 
  God
  
   
  
  
  
  
   
  
    
  
  
  
  Thinking Out Loud 
  (again).  Some of these thoughts and  wording comes from From 
  Cells to Souls  --  a section in that  book written by Alan 
  Torrance.   The following is a combination of AT?s thinking and my 
  understanding of the importance of his presentations.   
  
  
   
  
  
  In search of a truly heuristic consequence,  many 
  have involved themselves in the recovery of the gospel story as realized in 
  the triune God and the Sonship of Christ. 
  
  
  ?Christians acknowledge that the complexity of the 
  world is irreducible to anything other than the simplest explanation of 
  all   ---   the God who has created persons in his image 
  for personal communion with himself, with each other and, indeed,  with 
  all the other sentient beings which contribute o to the richness of the world 
  we know. ?  (p222).   And there you have it  --  ?the 
  simplest explanation of all,?   that mankind has been created in His 
  very image.   If there is another explanation for that image, 
  certainly it must in clude the idea of ?community.? 
  
  
  
   
  
  
  God loves the Son,  the Son loves the Father and 
  the Holy Spirit is the _expression_ of each in this world and in the lives of 
  those who are a part of His creation after The Reconciliation  (Col 
  1:17ff).
  
  
   
  
  
  That being true,  the personal behavior of man is 
  incomplete until expressed in the company of others  (p210).   
  Man was created for the expressed purpose of the expansion of community  
  (ye shall be fruitful and multiply) ?.. God?s covenant with Abraham had 
  everything to do with the blessing of an increasing community of persons. 
   Israel 
  was God manifest in national function.   His Christ was all about 
  the reconciliation of all things  < /SPAN> --  a tearing down 
  of the barriers erected in the garden, allowing the bridging of the divide 
  created by man?s decision to chart his own course, to go his own way, to 
  misappropriate the revealed word of the day  [?ye shall not surely die 
  ]  &nb sp; His church is His bride, bearing the offspring of all 
  that reveals His power and presence   --   a community of

Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

DAVEH:   Hmm..So why did you not quote my posts about Izzy's 
beauty as an example???


David Miller wrote:

We are looking for posts with substance, 
 


--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.


--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: Rmoderator Commant: was: Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz




I'd like to see something of substance that is in line 
with God's Word (not doctrines of men) written by either of them on a subject we 
have discussed on TT.  If you search the archives I think you will find 
that they both excel in criticism and their own opinion which is OK if this 
is what they want to contribute.  However, this will not qualify 
them as discerning disciples   jt
 
On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 15:27:05 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  First of all,  I thought you were responding to my words, since you 
  included them in your response  --  call me crazy.   
  Secondly,  are you tryng to tell me that nothing written by Gary was (is) 
  biblical  --  all of it was rock and roll?  Are you trying to 
  convince me that the Bishop from the North only speaks of movies?   
  That seems to be what you just said.   There is no point in going 
  on with this discussion if that is your "recollection."   
  What is your claim against these two men, once again?   NOTHING but 
  rock and roll and the movies?   Is that what you just 
  said?   JD
  
  From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  

  
  Gary & Lance are referenced in my wording not 
  yours because they are two of the three who are most critical of David Miller 
  and his spiritual gift.  I'd be interested in some examples of the 
  rooting and grounding (in God's Word) that you perceive in the writings of 
  both Lance and Gary JD.  Lance is an expert in old movies and this is 
  what he writes about. Gary is taken up with his own writings, those of Bob 
  Dylan, and the word "myth" ... So how about giving me some examples of what I 
  have missed.   jt
   
  On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 14:42:23 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  


 And where, pray tell, do you see "Gary"  or "Lance" 
referenced below in my wording  -  not that anyone one rigth 
really cares about what I actually write?   But more than that 
aside  -   being rooted and grounded in Wod's Wod is exactly 
waht I see in these brothers.   So who decides?   You or 
me?   Or maybe we just agree to live and let live.  
 
JD From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]



JD it is impossible to "try the spirits" aside 
from being rooted and grounded in God's Word which is not true 
for
either Lance or Gary.  Lance claims repeatedly 
that we can not know anything (because of the enlightenment) 
and
what comes from Gary's computer is more Dylan than 
scripture (out of the abundance that fills the heart the mouth 
speaks).  To me this has everything to do with everything because 
a person can be honestly deceived so being 

honest is not a litmus test either.  
jt
 
On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 13:07:23 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
  What does this have to do with anything?   I believe in 
  prophecy, Judy.  And I have known a few honest people who claim 
  to be prophets.   And I believe in testing the spirits to 
  confirm the difference.  
   
  JD

RE: Rmoderator Commant: was: Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz









 

They are definitely that!  ROFL! Iz

















But more than that aside  -   being rooted and grounded in Wod's Wod is
exactly waht I see in these brothers.  





JD

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH





DAVEH:  According to the dictionary definition, it's obvious Blaine was
not making it up as your below assertion,
Perry



...Will Blaine receive a forthcoming apology?

Charles Perry Locke wrote:
I never use the term, and have no definition. But if I
wanted one I would see if there was a comon usage for the term. I
wouldn't make up my own definition to fit my own desires.
  
  
  
So, what is your definition of "priestcraft,"  Perry?

Blaine



In a message dated 6/3/2005 7:17:13 AM Mountain Standard Time,

[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


>Blaine wrote:  Priestcraft is, by my  definition, ...


Here we go again...the mormons like to  make up their own meanings for

words, to suit thier own personal  perception of the world. I call this
the

"Queen of Hearts" syndrome:  "Words mean exactly what I want them to
mean!"


When a  person is steeped in a culture in which the cultural leaders

redefine  words to have untraditional meanings, for the purpose of
making the


culture appear to be other than it really is, this begins to affect
it's

adherents, as we see with Blaine above,
and have recently seen with DaveH  in

his limited definition of the word "teach", which exclusdes his own 
actions

on TT.


Another case in point is the Clinton  case where his attempt tp liimit
the

definition of certain words and  phrases to exclude his own actions has
been

passed down to our youth, who  at times use these tactics to try to
exclude

thier own  actions.


Another, but inverse,  example is the word  "homophobe". In this case
the

definition of the word has been EXPANDED to  include not only those who
fear

homosexuality (traditional definition),  but to include those who
beleive

that it is sinful behavior.


The root of this is in the "politically correct" movement, where it
does

not matter what you feel or believe, but how you are  perceived.



Wow. What a  world!


Perry


  


-- 
 ~~~
 Dave Hansen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.langlitz.com
 ~~~
 If you wish to receive
 things I find interesting,
 I maintain six email lists...
 JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
 STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: Rmoderator Commant: was: Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz


First of all,  I thought you were responding to my words, since you included them in your response  --  call me crazy.   Secondly,  are you tryng to tell me that nothing written by Gary was (is) biblical  --  all of it was rock and roll?  Are you trying to convince me that the Bishop from the North only speaks of movies?   That seems to be what you just said.   There is no point in going on with this discussion if that is your "recollection."   What is your claim against these two men, once again?   NOTHING but rock and roll and the movies?   Is that what you just said?   
 
JD -Original Message-From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 15:06:15 -0400Subject: Re: Rmoderator Commant: was: Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz



Gary & Lance are referenced in my wording not yours because they are two of the three who are most critical of David Miller and his spiritual gift.  I'd be interested in some examples of the rooting and grounding (in God's Word) that you perceive in the writings of both Lance and Gary JD.  Lance is an expert in old movies and this is what he writes about. Gary is taken up with his own writings, those of Bob Dylan, and the word "myth" ... So how about giving me some examples of what I have missed.   jt
 
On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 14:42:23 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



 And where, pray tell, do you see "Gary"  or "Lance" referenced below in my wording  -  not that anyone one rigth really cares about what I actually write?   But more than that aside  -   being rooted and grounded in Wod's Wod is exactly waht I see in these brothers.   So who decides?   You or me?   Or maybe we just agree to live and let live.  
 
JD From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]



JD it is impossible to "try the spirits" aside from being rooted and grounded in God's Word which is not true for
either Lance or Gary.  Lance claims repeatedly that we can not know anything (because of the enlightenment) and
what comes from Gary's computer is more Dylan than scripture (out of the abundance that fills the heart the mouth speaks).  To me this has everything to do with everything because a person can be honestly deceived so being 
honest is not a litmus test either.  jt
 
On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 13:07:23 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



What does this have to do with anything?   I believe in prophecy, Judy.  And I have known a few honest people who claim to be prophets.   And I believe in testing the spirits to confirm the difference.  
 
JD

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH


This goes on a wall in a frame  !!!  Thank you.  -Original Message-From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 14:06:50 -0400Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH



I think I am going to like the "new John."  Very well written and thought provoking.  Keep them coming.
 
Peace be with you.David Miller.

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH



Mester Blaine:   Jesus, indeed, is the same.  The notion that he has spoken in this dispensation is apparently given credence (in your thinking) because of the claim to fame  --  4th largest denomination.  What does the comparison of numbers mean when you compare to    say  --  Buddhism?  How are you doing in that exchange.   Could it be that numbers mean absolutely nothing when it comes to the establishment of truth.   I mean, my family is larger than yours...  7 kids and 12 grandchildren.  That makes us    ---   what?  Right?  
 
Secondly,  the Mormon revelations have nothing to do with the First Church.   There was no doctrine in the first church that provided for polygamy.  Blacks were welcome.  Grace, not works, was the theme of the day, God as expressed in the Godhead, was and is the only God, salvation was a gifted occurrence apart from the law, the church was never "right" in terms of the thinking and actions of its membership, and the governmental structure of the first church was nothing similar to what you have today  --  dispite the use of such words as "elders" and "bishops." &a
mp;n bsp; No one believed that Temple righteousness played a role in securing new heavens and new earths for the faithful  --  becoming gods to the same degree as the god of this earth.   
 
I mention the "first church,"  because the justification for the revelations of Mormonism have everything to do a supposed apostasy from the True Church of the first century.  such an opinion ignores the fact that "first church" was divided based on doctrine and if we count heads, doctrinal error (works salvationism  --  Jewish style) was,  by far, the majority opinion.   The notion that the church and its leadership had controls over the individual members (a false doctrine) led to the establishment of the Pope and the continuance of works salvationism.   There would have been no Pope if the membership understood that the rule of the bishop was a rule of example      only.   The first church did
 not understand the theology of accepted diversity as taught in Romans 14.  In fact,  if we cut out all the material in the NT letters,  if we cut all the material that was written to inform and correct the thinking of the first church  -   we would have nothing left but a pamphlet  of NT instruction.     
 
JD
 
  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 01:29:00 EDTSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH




In a message dated 6/1/2005 1:34:33 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The mormons have their JSmith; the J.Witnesses have their CT Russell, theChristian Scientists have their Mary Baker Eddy; the RCC's have their Pope,and the Incarnationalists have their "Bishop".  Ever wonder if ANY of themhave the "right" Jesus? Izzy

Blaine:  The "Right" Jesus is the one we all worship, and saying he is different because of this or that is rediculous.  Jesus has not changed, and he has spoken to men in this dispensation, just as in olden times, and the truths he taught  will eventually engulf the world, as the stone (His Church) cut out of the side of the mountain rolls forth and eventually fills the whole earth.  And Pairing Joseph Smith with a bunch of other false Christs and false prophets is just another of Satan's tricks. You are using the "guilt by association" approach to reasoning, which is false reasoning, and shameful for anyone to have to resort to it.    By the way, the Mormon
 Church is now the 4th largest denomination in America.  Just two years ago, it was the 5th largest.

Re: [TruthTalk] Refresher concerning the TruthTalk forum

 
 
 
How bout them Dadgers  !!
Can't you, Gary, and John follow rules?  Let's not be lawless.  We have one 
rule on TruthTalk:  No ad hominem arguments.  The reason for this is because 
the dialogue degenerates into being about egos and people defending 
themselves.  We want to talk about truth.  The list is not for evangelizing, 
personal counseling, or any other similar personal ministry.  It is a place 
for discussing Truth.

Re: Rmoderator Commant: was: Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz




Gary & Lance are referenced in my wording not yours 
because they are two of the three who are most critical of David Miller and his 
spiritual gift.  I'd be interested in some examples of the rooting and 
grounding (in God's Word) that you perceive in the writings of both Lance and 
Gary JD.  Lance is an expert in old movies and this is what he writes 
about. Gary is taken up with his own writings, those of Bob Dylan, and the word 
"myth" ... So how about giving me some examples of what I have 
missed.   jt
 
On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 14:42:23 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
   And where, pray tell, do you see "Gary"  or "Lance" referenced 
  below in my wording  -  not that anyone one rigth really cares about 
  what I actually write?   But more than that aside  
  -   being rooted and grounded in Wod's Wod is exactly waht I see in 
  these brothers.   So who decides?   You or me?   
  Or maybe we just agree to live and let live.  
   
  JD From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  

  
  JD it is impossible to "try the spirits" aside 
  from being rooted and grounded in God's Word which is not true 
for
  either Lance or Gary.  Lance claims repeatedly 
  that we can not know anything (because of the enlightenment) and
  what comes from Gary's computer is more Dylan than 
  scripture (out of the abundance that fills the heart the mouth speaks).  
  To me this has everything to do with everything because a person can be honestly deceived so being 
  honest is not a litmus test either.  
  jt
   
  On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 13:07:23 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  


What does this have to do with anything?   I believe in 
prophecy, Judy.  And I have known a few honest people who claim to 
be prophets.   And I believe in testing the spirits to confirm 
the difference.  
 
JD

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH





DAVEH:  Denial granted.

    Does Izzy not shine so brightly that you cannot see her luster,
John?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  Ahh  --  so it was grafted that served as the
motivation.   Of course DAvH will deny tis  --  but the facts are now
on the table.   
   
  Another reason why I cannot type as well as some is that I am
nearly legally blind.   What is instore for me?  
  
  JD 
 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Dave might
just win a free eye exam from my Hubby! J Iz
   
  
  
  
  
   
  
  
  
  Paaleezzz. 
Do your lips crack when puckered that tightly?  
  
  
   
  
  
  JD  
  
  
   
  
  
  :-) 
  
   
  
  
  DAVEH:   
Izzy...Your kindness is only exceeded by your beauty!
  
ShieldsFamily wrote: 
  
  Dave,
you are too much of a gentleman to ever be boring. J Izzy
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  


-- 
 ~~~
 Dave Hansen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.langlitz.com
 ~~~
 If you wish to receive
 things I find interesting,
 I maintain six email lists...
 JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
 STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Obesity



DAVEH:Service?

Charles Perry Locke wrote:


 Are there any other types of worship than singing songs?

Perry



--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.


--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: Rmoderator Commant: was: Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz


 And where, pray tell, do you see "Gary"  or "Lance" referenced belwow in my wording  -  not that anyone one rigth really cares about what I actually write?   
 
But more than that aside  -   being rooted and grounded in Wod's Wod is exactly waht I see in these brothers.   So who decides?   You or me?   Or maybe we just agree to live and let live.  
 
JD -Original Message-From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 13:14:44 -0400Subject: Re: Rmoderator Commant: was: Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz



JD it is impossible to "try the spirits" aside from being rooted and grounded in God's Word which is not true for
either Lance or Gary.  Lance claims repeatedly that we can not know anything (because of the enlightenment) and
what comes from Gary's computer is more Dylan than scripture (out of the abundance that fills the heart the mouth speaks).  To me this has everything to do with everything because a person can be honestly deceived so being 
honest is not a litmus test either.  jt
 
On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 13:07:23 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



What does this have to do with anything?   I believe in prophecy, Judy.  And I have known a few honest people who claim to be prophets.   And I believe in testing the spirits to confirm the difference.  
 
JD

RE: [TruthTalk] Re:American Nationalist PRIDE









Sad story of socialism at work—rob from
the workers and give to the government to give to the non-workers. Izzy

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005
11:27 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: [TruthTalk] Re:American
Nationalist PRIDE



 



What do you propose to do about it Lance
- take from the rich and give to the poor? Australia
is a semi socialistic country like Canada and my mother is a good
example.  She went to work at 57yrs old out of necessity because my father
(who did not believe in owning a home died).  She was untrained for
anything relevant to the 50's as she had been a milliner before she married but
the Lord made a way for her. She began as "tea lady" in the office of
a stock broker and graduated to the mail room, was given stock options as part
of the job which led to being able to put a deposit down on a Unit which
she lived in from 1969 until February 2005 when she fell and broke her
hip.  She has had to enter a Respite Hostel which is requiring her to sell
the Unit and give them a $200,000.00 deposit.  She was telling me on the
phone this morning how unfair this is because ppl who don't own a home are able
to enter the same place with only their pension.  She has been frugal
for all these years - and for what??  jt





 





 





On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 11:10:16 -0400 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:







IFF you are content to be and, remain, somewhat more
narrowly focused then, do so. Hell, Iz they're only black people dying of aids,
starvation and war. I think it was Alfred E Newman who said 'What, Me Worry'?
N 







From: ShieldsFamily






 



Lance, get it off your chest and please EXPLAIN to us exactly what you want US to do
SPECIFICALLY about the CONGO!
 Shall we follow your
example and just blame other entirely guiltless people for it so that we can feel how compassionate
we are? Izzy

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir





Myopia. Ask your husband about it. I've found a total lack
of concern on TT, from DM to DH, for global issues. To make light of 4M deaths
is simply beyond my comprehension. Wait, actually it's not as you've all made
jokes at any reference to events outside of either your neighborhoods or some
'sodomite' convention with an accompanying 'hollerin'' contest. 







From: ShieldsFamily








 



You don’t make me feel uncomfortable
except for you, Lance.  You’re really “out there” my
friend.  And your concerns about the Congo—what
are you and Canada
doing about it? Did you have a complaint with someone other than your beloved
United Nations? (It’s a crooked JOKE!!!) Izzy



 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir





It's truly uncomfortable is it not? When (in print) you
sound, often, like someone so ?yuck! Do be faithful to one of your own,
Iz. Joe looks down from 'the great 'hearing in the sky.' He's on the lookout
for 'commies' like homeland security is on the lookout for terrorists. It's the
head in the sand thingy, Iz.





 





You want serious? I'll give you serious! Does anyone out
there know the following: One thousand people die every day in the Democratic
Republic of Congo (DRC) and nearly half of these deaths are accounted for by
children under five years of age.  These deaths add daily to the
cumulative total of 3.8 million fatalities since the crisis began in August,
1998 to the end of April 2004.  This makes the DRC conflict worse than any
other conflict since the end of World War II and in terms of death toll exceeds
other recent crises, including Bosnia (estimated 250,000 dead), Rwanda
(800,000), Kosovo (12,000),. and Darfur in Sudan (70,000)





 





Despite this, the international community has failed to take
the necessary action to alleviate the crisis.  During 2004, only 42% of
funding sought by the United Nations for its activities had been raised by
August, while contributions by the United Sates Agency for International Assistance
to DRC for 2004 have declined by almost 25% when compared with 2003. 
"No other recent confllict has claimed as many lives and mortality rates
remain elevated at an alarming level.  In spite of these unambiguous
facts, the international community has not yet mobilized the necessary will or
resources to effectively address the crisis," according to the latest
mortality study, a joint effort by the New York
based International Rescue Committee (IRC) and Australia's Burnet Institute.







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: June 03, 2005
14:27





Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re:
[TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz





 



Oh, good grief---why is it that liberals
always fall back on those old tried and true names to call other people? If it
isn’t “Hitler” it’s “McCarthy”.  Get a
new, but more creativ

RE: [TruthTalk] Exerpts









Judy, I think Lance is talking about all
those times when Jesus “hung out” in the Baal temples with the
homos and prostitutes—it’s in his Bible. Izzy

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005
10:45 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Exerpts



 



I knew it!  You definitely do have
your own exclusive Bible Lance.  Where do you read that Jesus went to





fellowship with "sodomites, whores,
liberals, crazies, and the like"  In my Bibles they came to Him ...
In fact





read John 2:23-25 and you will see that
during the Passover there were many who believed on Him just





because of what they saw Him do but he would not commit Himself to them
because He knew what was in





man.  So what has changed??  God's
ppl have a responsibility to go into the highways and byways which





the much criticized SP's are doing to
preach the Kingdom and call people to God.  However, the Church has





a different standard, it should not be
full of the kinds of ppl you name.  As Paul told the Ephesians "such





WERE some of you"   jt





 





On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 10:53:45 -0400 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:







Wasn't it Jesus who first set the example of 'driving'
around the sodomites, whores, liberals, crazies and the like in order to
fellowship with the 'saints'.? Good for you, Izzie! Amen! Right on sister!







From: ShieldsFamily






 



Methodist, around the corner from our
home.  One of the great liberal city churches in these huge, beautiful
turn of the century buildings.  They are all peppered with
sodomites.  No wonder we drive 25 miles to a real gathering of saints.
Izzy

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]





what church?





 





On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:24:05 -0500 "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:





..a church service..in which the
“Reverend” was a lesbian

[TruthTalk] Christian "conspiracy" in Canada









Christian “conspiracy” in Canada:
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44581

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH

2005-06-04 Thread David Miller




I think I am going to like the "new John."  Very well written and 
thought provoking.  Keep them coming.
 
Peace be with you.David Miller.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 10:02 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs 
  DaveH
  
  
  
  Mester Blaine:   Jesus, indeed, is the 
  same.  The notion that he has spoken in this dispensation is 
  apparently given credence (in your thinking) because of the claim to fame  --  4th largest 
  denomination.  What does the comparison of numbers mean when you compare 
  to    say  --  Buddhism?  How are you doing in that 
  exchange.   Could it be that numbers mean absolutely nothing when it 
  comes to the establishment of truth.   I mean, my family is larger 
  than yours...  7 kids and 12 grandchildren.  That makes 
  us    ---   what?  
  Right?  
   
  Secondly,  the Mormon revelations have nothing to do with the First 
  Church.   There was no doctrine in the first church that provided 
  for polygamy.  Blacks were welcome.  Grace, not 
  works, was the theme of the day, God as expressed in the Godhead, was and is 
  the only God, salvation was a gifted occurrence apart from the law, the 
  church was never "right" in terms of the thinking and actions of its 
  membership, and the governmental structure of the first church was 
  nothing similar to what you have today  --  dispite the use of such words 
  as "elders" and "bishops." &n bsp; No one believed that Temple 
  righteousness played a role in securing new heavens and new earths for the 
  faithful  --  becoming gods to the same degree as the god of this 
  earth.   
   
  I mention the "first church,"  because the justification for the 
  revelations of Mormonism have everything 
  to do a supposed apostasy from the True Church of the first 
  century.  such an opinion ignores the fact that "first 
  church" was divided based on doctrine and if we count heads, doctrinal 
  error (works salvationism  
  --  Jewish style) was,  by far, the majority 
  opinion.   The notion that the 
  church and its leadership had controls over the individual members (a false 
  doctrine) led to the establishment of the Pope and the continuance of works 
  salvationism.   There would have 
  been no Pope if the membership understood that the rule of the bishop was a rule of example   
     only.   The first church did not understand the theology of accepted 
  diversity as taught in Romans 14.  In fact,  if we cut out all the 
  material in the NT letters,  if 
  we cut all the material that was written to inform and correct the thinking of 
  the first church  -   we would have nothing left but a 
  pamphlet  of NT instruction.     
   
  JD
   
    -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 
  01:29:00 EDTSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH
  

  
  
  In a message dated 6/1/2005 1:34:33 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  The 
mormons have their JSmith; the J.Witnesses have their CT 
Russell, theChristian Scientists have their Mary Baker Eddy; the RCC's have 
their Pope,and the Incarnationalists have their "Bishop".  Ever wonder 
if ANY of themhave the "right" Jesus? Izzy
  
  Blaine:  The "Right" Jesus is the one we all 
  worship, and saying he is different because of this or that is rediculous.  Jesus has not changed, and 
  he has spoken to men in this dispensation, just as in olden times, and the 
  truths he taught  will eventually engulf the world, as the stone (His 
  Church) cut out of the side of the mountain rolls forth and eventually fills 
  the whole earth.  And Pairing Joseph Smith with a bunch of other 
  false Christs and false prophets is just another of Satan's 
  tricks. You are using the "guilt by association" approach to reasoning, 
  which is false reasoning, and shameful for anyone to have to resort to 
  it.    By the way, the Mormon Church is now the 4th largest 
  denomination in America.  Just two years ago, it was the 5th 
  largest.

[TruthTalk] Re:American Nationalist PRIDE




What do you propose to do about it Lance - take from 
the rich and give to the poor? Australia is a semi socialistic country like 
Canada and my mother is a good example.  She went to work at 57yrs old out 
of necessity because my father (who did not believe in owning a home 
died).  She was untrained for anything relevant to the 50's as she had been 
a milliner before she married but the Lord made a way for her. She began as "tea 
lady" in the office of a stock broker and graduated to the mail room, was given 
stock options as part of the job which led to being able to put a deposit 
down on a Unit which she lived in from 1969 until February 2005 when she fell 
and broke her hip.  She has had to enter a Respite Hostel which is 
requiring her to sell the Unit and give them a $200,000.00 deposit.  She 
was telling me on the phone this morning how unfair this is because ppl who 
don't own a home are able to enter the same place with only their 
pension.  She has been frugal for all these years - and for what??  
jt
 
 
On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 11:10:16 -0400 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

  IFF you are content to be and, remain, somewhat 
  more narrowly focused then, do so. Hell, Iz they're only black people dying of 
  aids, starvation and war. I think it was Alfred E Newman who said 'What, Me 
  Worry'? N 
  
From: ShieldsFamily 
 

Lance, get it off 
your chest and please EXPLAIN to us 
exactly what you want US to do SPECIFICALLY about the CONGO! 
 Shall we follow your example and just blame other 
entirely guiltless people for it so that we can feel how compassionate we are? 
Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
Muir 

Myopia. Ask your husband about 
it. I've found a total lack of concern on TT, from DM to DH, for global 
issues. To make light of 4M deaths is simply beyond my comprehension. Wait, 
actually it's not as you've all made jokes at any reference to events 
outside of either your neighborhoods or some 'sodomite' convention with an 
accompanying 'hollerin'' contest. 

  
  From: ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  
  
  You dont make me 
  feel uncomfortable except for you, Lance.  Youre really out there 
  my friend.  And your concerns about the Congowhat are you and Canada doing about it? Did you 
  have a complaint with someone other than your beloved United Nations? 
  (Its a crooked JOKE!!!) Izzy
   
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
  Muir 
  
  It's truly uncomfortable is it 
  not? When (in print) you sound, often, like someone so ?yuck! Do 
  be faithful to one of your own, Iz. Joe looks down from 'the great 
  'hearing in the sky.' He's on the lookout for 'commies' like homeland 
  security is on the lookout for terrorists. It's the head in the sand 
  thingy, Iz.
  
   
  
  You want serious? I'll give 
  you serious! Does anyone out there know the following: One thousand people 
  die every day in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and nearly half of 
  these deaths are accounted for by children under five years of age.  
  These deaths add daily to the cumulative total of 3.8 million fatalities 
  since the crisis began in August, 1998 to the end of April 2004.  
  This makes the DRC conflict worse than any other conflict since the end of 
  World War II and in terms of death toll exceeds other recent crises, 
  including Bosnia (estimated 250,000 dead), Rwanda (800,000), Kosovo 
  (12,000),. and Darfur in Sudan 
  (70,000)
  
   
  
  Despite this, the 
  international community has failed to take the necessary action to 
  alleviate the crisis.  During 2004, only 42% of funding sought by the 
  United Nations for its activities had been raised by August, while 
  contributions by the United Sates Agency for International Assistance to 
  DRC for 2004 have declined by almost 25% when compared with 2003.  
  "No other recent confllict has claimed as many lives and mortality rates 
  remain elevated at an alarming level.  In spite of these unambiguous 
  facts, the international community has not yet mobilized the necessary 
  will or resources to effectively address the crisis," according to the 
  latest mortality study, a joint effort by the New 
  York based International Rescue Committee (IRC) and Australia's Burnet 
  Institute.
  

- Original Message - 


From: ShieldsFamily 


To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 


Sent: 
June 03, 2005 14:27

Subject: RE: 
[Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz

Re: [TruthTalk] Exerpts




I knew it!  You definitely do have your own 
exclusive Bible Lance.  Where do you read that Jesus went to
fellowship with "sodomites, whores, liberals, crazies, 
and the like"  In my Bibles they came to Him ... In fact
read John 2:23-25 and you will see that during the 
Passover there were many who believed on Him just
because of what they saw Him do but he would 
not commit Himself to them because He knew what was in
man.  So what has 
changed??  God's ppl have a responsibility to go into the highways and 
byways which
the much criticized SP's are doing to preach the 
Kingdom and call people to God.  However, the Church has
a different standard, it should not be full of the 
kinds of ppl you name.  As Paul told the Ephesians "such
WERE some of you"   jt
 
On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 10:53:45 -0400 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

  Wasn't it Jesus who first set the example of 
  'driving' around the sodomites, whores, liberals, crazies and the like in 
  order to fellowship with the 'saints'.? Good for you, Izzie! Amen! Right on 
  sister!
  
From: ShieldsFamily 
 

Methodist, around 
the corner from our home.  One of the great liberal city churches in 
these huge, beautiful turn of the century buildings.  They are all 
peppered with sodomites.  No wonder we drive 25 miles to a real 
gathering of saints. Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]

what 
church?

 

On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:24:05 -0500 "ShieldsFamily" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
writes:

..a church 
service..in which the Reverend was a 
lesbian

RE: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH









 

 











=
Well done, John!!  Especially that last sentence.
Terry

 

Ditto! Iz

RE: Rmoderator Commant: was: Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz









 

This is
so very funny!!!













Lance claims repeatedly that we can not know anything (because of the
enlightenment)

Re: [TruthTalk] Exerpts

2005-06-04 Thread David Miller

Lance wrote:
> I, for one, do not blame such as yourself, who choose
> the 'broad road' that leadeth to fellowshipping with 'non-sinners'.
> What was it again that Jesus was criticized for?
> With whom was he hanging out?

Let's make one thing clear.  Jesus did not have fellowship with sinners.  I 
have been criticized many times for being friends with homosexuals, 
fornicators, drunkards, drug addicts, prison convicts, etc.  I have even 
been "disfellowshipped" for having homosexuals in my Bible studies. 
Nevertheless, I have never had fellowship with these sinners while they were 
still in their sin.

Jesus was criticized for ministering to sinners, not for having fellowship 
with them.  Every sinner who came to Jesus was told by Jesus to go and sin 
no more.  Why?  Sinners cannot have fellowship with Jesus.

Peace be with you.
David Miller. 

--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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RE: [TruthTalk] community and the Kingdom of God









Thanks for asking, JD.  To me
humanism is the religion worshipping humans.  Putting humans and
humanistic thinking ahead of God and thinking according to God’s
Word.  I have no idea how DM would define it.  I also don’t
appreciate your insinuation that I get my ideas from DM.  

 

Regarding your post, it sounded “nice”
and all.  But a religion that spends time promoting “Community”
is off-base IMO.  The true Church is not about promoting the community of
humans, but is all about lifting up Jesus Christ as Lord of Lords and King of
Kings.  The true community which springs from that as a byproduct is truly
wonderful, as you seem to understand.  Izzy

 

PS Here is how a Humanist defines
Humanism: http://www.jcn.com/humanism.html.
 (Is it NOT Christianity.)

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005
10:18 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] community
and the Kingdom
 of God



 







Well, it most certainly is not humanism,
Linda.   Or maybe I should ask what you think humanism is before
going any further.  David M accused me of the same thing  -- perhaps
this is where you got the idea.   He too, left off giving me a
definition.   





 





What was written below is a first draft attempt at
continuing the task of understanding, on my part.  It could not be more
God centered  -- so how is it humanism.   What is you defintion?





 





Jd 



 
-Original Message-
From: ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 09:47:48 -0500
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] community and the Kingdom of God





JD, all this talk of community above
everything else just comes across to me as humanism.  Lift us Jesus and all men
will be drawn unto Him, and coincidentally to each other?s fellowship. 
It?s a priority thing. Izzy





 













From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005
12:03 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] community
and the Kingdom of God







 











 







  







Thinking Out Loud
(again).  Some of these thoughts and  wording comes from From
Cells to Souls  --  a section in that  book written by Alan
Torrance.   The following is a combination of AT?s thinking and my
understanding of the importance of his presentations.   









 









In search of a truly heuristic consequence,  many have involved
themselves in the recovery of the gospel story as realized in the triune God and
the Sonship of Christ. 









?Christians acknowledge that the complexity of the world is irreducible
to anything other than the simplest explanation of all  
---   the God who has created persons in his image for personal
communion with himself, with each other and, indeed,  with all the other
sentient beings which contribute o to the richness of the world we know.
?  (p222).   And there you have it  --  ?the simplest
explanation of all,?   that mankind has been created in His very
image.   If there is another explanation for that image, certainly it
must in clude the idea of ?community.? 









 









God loves the Son,  the Son loves the Father and the Holy Spirit
is the _expression_ of each in this world and in the lives of those who are a
part of His creation after The Reconciliation  (Col 1:17ff).









 









That being true,  the personal behavior of man is incomplete until
expressed in the company of others  (p210).   Man was created
for the expressed purpose of the expansion of community  (ye shall be
fruitful and multiply) ?.. God?s covenant with Abraham had everything to do
with the blessing of an increasing community of persons.  Israel
was God manifest in national function.   His Christ was all about the
reconciliation of all things  < /SPAN> --  a tearing down of
the barriers erected in the garden, allowing the bridging of the divide created
by man?s decision to chart his own course, to go his own way, to misappropriate
the revealed word of the day  [?ye shall not surely die
]  &nb sp; His church is His bride, bearing the offspring of all
that reveals His power and presence   --   a community of
believers that live to reveal God to a lost and confused world.   He
is the Father, we are his adoptive children.   Community is written
on every page and thought of God?s dealings with man.   ?The
relational dimens ion of human nature? is at the centre of our very
being.  It is such because and only because we have been created in that
image and for that purpose.   Community is not only the image of
creative endeavor, it is the very purpose for our existence.   Our
identity as persons,  our true identity is manifest in freedom  (the
perfect law of liberty), in presence  (ye who are spiritual help those who
are weak;   pour yourselves out for the hunger, give yourselves to
the afflicted and see your light shine as the noonday sun), i

[TruthTalk] Refresher concerning the TruthTalk forum

2005-06-04 Thread David Miller

Lance wrote:
> Why not let David take care of this privately?

Because Gary said it publicly.  Besides that, my experience is that Gary 
often does not respond to my private posts, so why should I waste my time?

Can't you, Gary, and John follow rules?  Let's not be lawless.  We have one 
rule on TruthTalk:  No ad hominem arguments.  The reason for this is because 
the dialogue degenerates into being about egos and people defending 
themselves.  We want to talk about truth.  The list is not for evangelizing, 
personal counseling, or any other similar personal ministry.  It is a place 
for discussing Truth.

Here is the way it works.

When Perry acts as moderator to guide people away from the ad hominem 
arguments, the people addressed should comply and not respond to the list. 
If you have a problem with what he is saying, write to him privately.  Perry 
is the only one on the list who can address personal issues, and he does so 
as moderator to keep the discussion on track.  So please do not reply to the 
list when reading any post where Perry signs it as moderator, or indicates 
in the subject line that the post is being made as moderator.

Concerning Kevin calling John a liar.  That is an ad hominem remark as well 
and is generally not allowed.  We have been over this many times.  Giving 
evidence along with the remark might make such a post allowable in some 
cases.  That is for the moderator to make the call on.  The reason it might 
be allowed is because if he wants to demonstrate how someone is bearing 
false witness by producing facts, that might be edifying to the list.  Just 
calling someone a liar is not edifying.  Still, what is considered solid 
evidence to one person might appear to be no evidence at all to everybody 
else, so the moderator has the final say about what will be allowed.  There 
are gray areas here.  Personally, I think it is best if nobody ever calls 
anyone a liar on the list.  That does not mean he cannot do so privately or 
in another forum.  It is not a sin to call someone a liar.  It is something 
we simply discourage on this list only.  The reason?  We want to talk about 
truth, not judge one another on the list.  The focus here should be on 
truth, concepts, ideas, theology, philosophy, and opinions, not upon people.

So to summarize:

1.  No ad hominem arugments are allowed on the list.

2.  Do not respond to the list on any posts signed by Perry as moderator. 
Accept what he says, or respond privately if needed.

3.  If you think someone has crossed the line about the ad hominem rule, 
respond to that person directly on the list in the course of your argument 
to point out their error, or write Perry privately and ask him to do 
something about it.  Do not attempt to use it to justify the ad hominem 
remarks of others.  Two wrongs do not make something right.  You cannot 
justify bad behavior by pointing out somebody else's bad behavior.

If we follow these simple rules, the list will get cleaned up and we can get 
back to some constructive discussions like we have had in the past.

Peace be with you.
David Miller
List Administrator 


--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] [Bulk] Rmoderator Commant: was: Re: NIV Bible Quiz









JD, if you are going to falsely accuse me
of ad hom attacks please provide the quotes. Izzy

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005
10:13 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] [Bulk]
Rmoderator Commant: was: Re: NIV Bible Quiz



 







You know , Perry,  if you are going to get
serious with this  -- what about "liar" and Deegan.  
Or just about ANYTHING Izzy says to anyone on the "left?   You
strike me as being fair minded --  but you areheaded across the line 
--  big time.   As far as David being a false prophet 
--  tons of evidence on that , Perry.  Does not mean that he IS a
false prophet  -- but it does mean that Gary's opinion is not
unsupported.   





 





JD 



 
-Original Message-
From: Charles Perry Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 08:32:04 -0700
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] [Bulk] Rmoderator Commant: was: Re: NIV Bible Quiz



Gary, To call someone's comments a "myth" (even without any
evidence) expresses your unsupported opinion. But, your parenthetical comment
equates David to a false prophet. Rather than level such an ad hominem attack,
please provide exidence to support your claim or retract it. 
 
Perry the moderator 
 
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
>Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz 
>Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:51:16 -0600 
> 
>myth (false prophets speak of JC in the past tense for manipulative 
>personal reasons or as does the author, below) 
> 
>On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:09:38 -0400 "David
 Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>writes: 
> >..Jesus also respected Scripture the way that we do. 
 
-- 
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org 
 
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to
send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
and he will be subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] For those who want Scripture and in the KJV translation









Were you referring to someone in
particular here, Lance?

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005
10:01 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: [TruthTalk] For those who
want Scripture and in the KJV translation



 



I'd heartily recommend 2 Tim 3:1-17





 





enjoy

RE: [TruthTalk] Re:American Nationalist PRIDE









STILL WAITING, LANCE.  ANSWER PLEASE. 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 9:27
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Re:American Nationalist PRIDE



 



Tell us? Ask Jesus what you should do, Iz. Guiltless? Have
you seen 'Shake Hands With The Devil"? Look at Clinton and Albright
showing up in Rwanda
years later claiming that they did not know the extent of that holocaust. That
holocaust was a mere 800,000. Who was the General who stayed behind during the
conflict? Why Iz, it was Romeo Dallaire, a Canadian General.I'll pay for the
rental cost if you'll get it and watch it. Thereafter I'd love to hear
something other than a simple dismissal re: the second worst tragedy since
WWII.







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: June 04, 2005
11:16





Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]
Re:American Nationalist PRIDE





 



I’m still WAITING, Lance. 
Answer the QUESTION, Lance!  Izzy

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 9:10
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: [TruthTalk] Re:American
Nationalist PRIDE



 



IFF you are content to be and, remain, somewhat more
narrowly focused then, do so. Hell, Iz they're only black people dying of aids,
starvation and war. I think it was Alfred E Newman who said 'What, Me Worry'?
N 







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: June 04, 2005
10:54





Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re:
[TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz





 



Lance, get it off your chest and please EXPLAIN to us exactly what you want US to do
SPECIFICALLY about the CONGO!
 Shall we follow your
example and just blame other entirely guiltless people for it so that we can feel how compassionate
we are? Izzy

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 4:21
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re:
[TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz



 



Myopia. Ask your husband about it. I've found a total lack
of concern on TT, from DM to DH, for global issues. To make light of 4M deaths
is simply beyond my comprehension. Wait, actually it's not as you've all made
jokes at any reference to events outside of either your neighborhoods or some
'sodomite' convention with an accompanying 'hollerin'' contest. 







- Original Message - 





From: ShieldsFamily






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: June 03, 2005
21:19





Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re:
[TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz





 



You don’t make me feel uncomfortable
except for you, Lance.  You’re really “out there” my
friend.  And your concerns about the Congo—what
are you and Canada
doing about it? Did you have a complaint with someone other than your beloved
United Nations? (It’s a crooked JOKE!!!) Izzy

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 1:25
PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re:
[TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz



 



It's truly uncomfortable is it not? When (in print) you
sound, often, like someone so ?yuck! Do be faithful to one of your own,
Iz. Joe looks down from 'the great 'hearing in the sky.' He's on the lookout
for 'commies' like homeland security is on the lookout for terrorists. It's the
head in the sand thingy, Iz.





 





You want serious? I'll give you serious! Does anyone out
there know the following: One thousand people die every day in the Democratic
Republic of Congo (DRC) and nearly half of these deaths are accounted for by
children under five years of age.  These deaths add daily to the
cumulative total of 3.8 million fatalities since the crisis began in August,
1998 to the end of April 2004.  This makes the DRC conflict worse than any
other conflict since the end of World War II and in terms of death toll exceeds
other recent crises, including Bosnia (estimated 250,000 dead), Rwanda
(800,000), Kosovo (12,000),. and Darfur in Sudan (70,000)





 





Despite this, the international community has failed to take
the necessary action to alleviate the crisis.  During 2004, only 42% of
funding sought by the United Nations for its activities had been raised by
August, while contributions by the United Sates Agency for International
Assistance to DRC for 2004 have declined by almost 25% when compared with
2003.  "No other recent confllict has claimed as many lives and
mortality rates remain elevated at an alarming level.  In spite of these
unambiguous facts, the international community has not yet mobilized the
necessary will or resources to effectively address the crisis," according
to the latest mortality study, a joint effort by the New
 York based International Rescue Committee (IRC) and Australia's
Burnet Institute.







- Original

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH





Lance Muir wrote:

  
  

  
  David has given you a more
appropriate answer than Izzie but, she has a good heart? (I think so,
anyway) 

===
Izzy is the re-incarnation of miss Kitty on Gunsmoke.  Tough as nails,
heart of gold.  With your vast knowledge of film and television
characters I am surprised that you had not noticed that.
(If you don't believe me, ask Festus)

[TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz




JD show me in scripture where God makes "his ppl" 
responsible for the ills of the whole world?  The Church is
responsible to witness to the Truth and the Truth is 
what will make them free.  In the world there is always some
crisis. It is just one big demonic game. I can remember 
the 60's when my sister would send these newspaper
clippings to me about impending doom from a nuclear 
catastrophe and everyone was investing in bomb shelters
which proved to be a mirage.  Missionaries have 
been sent to Zaire - we have some living locally and some boys
from that nation who are here to study.  CBN is 
also very involved. ... So if there is something we are all missing
please post Chapter and verse and I for one will give 
it some thought and some prayer.  jt
 
On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 13:03:16 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
  does the "love of God" in your life say anything to this problem or is 
  your thinking that the Government fulfills your responsiblity to those dying 
  in the Congo?  - or is that just more liberal 
  nonsense?   JD From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  

  
  

  
  Lance, get it off 
  your chest and please EXPLAIN to us exactly 
  what you want US to do SPECIFICALLY about the CONGO! 
   Shall we follow your example and just blame other 
  entirely guiltless people for it so that we can feel how compassionate we are? 
  Izzy
   
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  On Behalf Of Lance 
  Muir 
  
  Myopia. Ask your husband about it. 
  I've found a total lack of concern on TT, from DM to DH, for global issues. To 
  make light of 4M deaths is simply beyond my comprehension. Wait, actually it's 
  not as you've all made jokes at any reference to events outside of either your 
  neighborhoods or some 'sodomite' convention with an accompanying 'hollerin'' 
  contest. 
  
From: ShieldsFamily 




You don?t make me 
feel uncomfortable except for you, Lance.  You?re really ?out there? my 
friend.  And your concerns about the Congo?what are you and Canada doing about it? Did you 
have a complaint with someone other than your beloved United Nations? (It?s 
a crooked JOKE!!!) Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance 
Muir 

It's truly uncomfortable is it 
not? When (in print) you sound, often, like someone so ?yuck! Do be 
faithful to one of your own, Iz. Joe looks down from 'the great 'hearing in 
the sky.' He's on the lookout for 'commies' like homeland security is on the 
lookout for terrorists. It's the head in the sand thingy, 
Iz.

 

You want serious? I'll give you 
serious! Does anyone out there know the following: One thousand people die 
every day in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and nearly half of these 
deaths are accounted for by children under five years of age.  These 
deaths add daily to the cumulative total of 3.8 million fatalities since the 
crisis began in August, 1998 to the end of April 2004.  This makes the 
DRC conflict worse than any other conflict since the end of World War II and 
in terms of death toll exceeds other recent crises, including Bosnia 
(estimated 250,000 dead), Rwanda (800,000), Kosovo (12,000),. and Darfur in 
Sudan 
(70,000)

 

Despite this, the international 
community has failed to take the necessary action to alleviate the 
crisis.  During 2004, only 42% of funding sought by the United Nations 
for its activities had been raised by August, while contributions by the 
United Sates Agency for International Assistance to DRC for 2004 have 
declined by almost 25% when compared with 2003.  "No other recent 
confllict has claimed as many lives and mortality rates remain elevated at 
an alarming level.  In spite of these unambiguous facts, the 
international community has not yet mobilized the necessary will or 
resources to effectively address the crisis," according to the latest 
mortality study, a joint effort by the New 
York based International Rescue Committee (IRC) and Australia's Burnet 
Institute.

  
  - Original Message - 
  
  
  From: ShieldsFamily 
  
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  
  Sent: June 
  03, 2005 14:27
  
  Subject: RE: 
  [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] NIV Bible Quiz
  
   
  Oh, good 
  grief---why is it that liberals always fall back on those old tried and 
  true names to call other people? If it isn?t ?Hitler? it?s 
  ?McCarthy?.  Get a new, but more creative insult please.  
  Izzy
   
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance MuirSent: Friday, June 03, 2005 11:47 
  AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk]

Re: [TruthTalk] Perry vs DaveH