subject:"\[TruthTalk\] Only 9 of the 10 commandments\?"

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  michael 
  douglas 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

  Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 1:07 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]Only 9 of the 10 
  commandments

   Marlin Halverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote: 

When people say that they do not want the law, 

and that they want to do away with the Old Testement, 

what they really want to do away with is Jesus Christ 

because He is the Word made flesh. (John 
1)

Michael D: When, then, you desire to bring believers in Christ back under 
the law, God condems that. Please read Galatians 
4.

Dear Michael,

It is sinning, disobeying the law, that puts us under 
the law.  Jesus pays the penalty so that we are not condemned to death 
for failing to keep the law when we repent of breaking the law.  
Repentance means to stop sinning.  Sinning puts us back under the 
law.  With repentance, Jesus redeems us that we might receive the 
adoption of sons, and as sons, God sends the Spirit of His Son into our 
hearts, crying abba, Father.  We are not to turn again to sin, to the 
weak and beggarly elements that put us into bondage, in service to them that 
are no gods.  (2Chron 13:9; Isa 37:19; Jer. 2:11).  Weak and 
beggarly elements cannot be a schoolmaster or a shadow of things to 
come.

Please read:
ROM 5:20    Moreover the law entered, 
that the offence might abound. But 
where    
sin abounded, grace did much more abound:ROM 6:1 
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace 
may    
abound?
ROM 6:2 God forbid. How shall 
we, that are dead to sin, live any 
longer    
therein?
JAM 2:17    Even so faith, if it hath 
not works, is dead, being alone.JAM 2:18    Yea, a man 
may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me 
thy    
faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.JAM 
2:19    Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest 
well: the 
devils    
also believe, and tremble.JAM 2:20    But wilt thou know, 
O vain man, that faith without works is dead?JAM 2:21    
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had 
offered    
Isaac his son upon the altar?JAM 2:22    Seest thou how 
faith wrought with his works, and by works was 
faith    
made perfect?JAM 2:23    And the scripture was fulfilled 
which saith, Abraham believed 
God,    
and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was 
called    
the Friend of God.JAM 2:24    Ye see then how that by 
works a man is justified, and not by 
faith    
only.JAM 2:25    Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot 
justified by works, when 
she    
had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way?JAM 
2:26    For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith 
without 
works    
is dead also.

Re: [TruthTalk]Only 9 of the 10 commandments

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  michael 
  douglas 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

  Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 1:07 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]Only 9 of the 10 
  commandments

   Marlin Halverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote: 

When people say that they do not want the law, 

and that they want to do away with the Old Testement, 

what they really want to do away with is Jesus Christ 

because He is the Word made flesh. (John 
1)

Michael D: 
Rom. 10: 4. For Christ is the end of 
the law for righteousness to 
every one that believeth.

Dear Michael,

"end" strongs index #5056 telos, "It never 
denotes merely an end as to time, a termination in and for itself, for which 
another word, teleute(5054), death, is always used" Lexical 
Aids to the New Testament, Zodhiates.

ROM 11:26   And so all Israel shall be 
saved: as it is written, There 
shall    
come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away 
ungodliness    
from Jacob:ROM 11:27   For this [is] my covenant unto them, 
when I shall take away 
their    
sins. (Isa. 59:20-21; 27:9; Jer 31:33-34 NT reference to OT)
ROM 13:9    For this, Thou shalt not 
commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, 
Thou    
shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt 
not    
covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is 
briefly    
comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy 
neighbour    
as thyself. 
(Exo 20:13-17; Deu 5:17-21; Lev 19:18 NT affirmation 
of OT 10 Commandments)ROM 13:10   Love worketh no ill to his 
neighbour: therefore love [is] 
the    
fulfilling of the law.
REV 12:17   And the dragon was wroth with 
the woman, and went to make war 
with    
the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, 
and    
have the testimony of Jesus Christ.REV 14:12   Here is the 
patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep 
the    
commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
REV 22:14   Blessed [are] they that do his 
commandments, that they may 
have    
right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates 
into    
the city.REV 22:15   For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, 
and whoremongers, 
and    
murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a 
lie.

Love,

Marlin

Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?

2002-11-23 Thread GJTabor

You, Marlin, don't keep the Sabbath in the Old Testament 100% therefore you are guilty of all.  You will have to stone me to death because I reject your teaching as false doctrine.  Marlin, condemns others for not keeping the Sabbath and Marlin, doesn't keep the Sabbath.

You say the same old same old and ignore posts that refute Old Testament keeping.  I hope Martin will join TT for a short while, as he used to keep the Sabbath before he saw the light.



Hello Michael,
 
I have always took this to apply to those of us who keep God's Sabbaths and holy days, with attention to God's lunar based calendar who were being judged by the kind of people who were judging Jesus.  Paul did not say to let no man judge you for NOT keeping the Sabbaths.  He said not to let others judge you in respect of the holy days, new moons, and Sabbaths, the things that Colossians were doing.  Paul never said that these days had been changed to Sunday worship, or to some other holidays invented by men.
 
Love,
 
Marlin

- Original Message - 
From: michael douglas 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?


 Marlin Halverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
Do they not rread in Colossians 2, [? Who is not reading?]
 
Michael D:  I humbly submit that it seems like these commentators aren't, neither are you. Read Colossians 2:  
16.  Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink or in respect of a holy day, on of the new moon, or of the sabbath days . 
 
Notice the 'days' are in italics in the KJV. Sounds familiar to me... Doesn't it?

Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?




Hello Michael,
 
I have always took this to apply to those of us who keep 
God's Sabbaths and holy days, with attention to God's lunar based calendar who 
were being judged by the kind of people who were judging Jesus.  Paul did 
not say to let no man judge you for NOT keeping the Sabbaths.  He said not 
to let others judge you in respect of the holy days, new moons, and Sabbaths, 
the things that Colossians were doing.  Paul never said that these days had 
been changed to Sunday worship, or to some other holidays invented by 
men.
 
Love,
 
Marlin

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  michael 
  douglas 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 2:48 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 
  commandments?
  
   
   Marlin Halverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote: 
  

Do they not rread in Colossians 2, [? Who is not reading?]
 
Michael 
D:  I humbly submit 
that it seems like these commentators aren't, neither are you. Read 
Colossians 2:  
16.  Let no man therefore judge you in meat or 
in drink or in respect of a holy day, on of the new moon, or of 
the sabbath days . 
 
Notice the 'days' are in italics in the KJV. Sounds 
familiar to me... Doesn't it?
 
 
  
  
  
  With Yahoo! Mail you can get a bigger mailbox -- choose a 
  size that fits your needs

Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?




David Miller wrote:> I think observing passover and 
the feast of unleavened bread is wonderful.> Paul, being a Jew, kept 
these feasts and taught their application to the> believer.  I have 
been in Israel during Passover and the feast of unleavened> bread, and 
the imagery is fantastic when you have all these hotel owners and> 
restaurant owners washing all their things outside, getting rid of every 
bit> of leaven.  People meticulously vacuum their cars to make sure 
every bit of> leaven is gone.  When a person understands how this 
leaven represents sin,> to see all the industry given to making sure the 
leaven is all gone, how> clear it becomes that we must put away every 
speck of sin that might be> residing somewhere in our lives.> 

You have eyes to see this.  To me, God's holy days 
make sense.  Man's counterfeit holidays are empty.  
--Marlin
> I have Jewish friends who are not 
Christian.  During Passover and the feast> I was visiting one of 
these friends in Israel.  I asked him if he knew why> the Scriptures 
told them to get rid of the leaven.  Did he know why they> were 
doing all this.  He said no, only that the Torah says to do it.  
You> should have seen his eyes widen when I explained how our 
Christian> perspective is that the leaven represents sin, and therefore, 
when we come> to Christ who is the true passover lamb, we must 
immediately put forth all> the leaven (sin) in our lives and enter into 
his rest.  He has lived in this> culture his whole life and never 
heard that.  In my culture, people don't> understand what it takes 
to get rid of all the leaven in the household.> Bringing these cultures 
together is wonderful I think.
 
You have eyes to see this.  But, how can you enter 
into His rest without keeping the seventh day holy?  Sin is the 
transgression of the law.  Unleavened Bread represents sin during those 
days.  The flat bread of sincerity and truth shows that we are not to be 
all puffed up in our own conceit, but humble.  So how can we spiritualize 
away the holy Sabbaths of God with the ideas of men and try to say that the 
Sabbaths are every day?  When do we labor and do all of our work on the six 
days?  How can we remember a day that is spiritualized into being every 
day?  And worse of all, pick the day of Sun worshippers to keep holy in 
fellowship? --Marlin
> > The article said:> > Paul 
carries his instruction even further, showing that> > we have to keep 
the Sabbath or lose salvation.> > "For he that is entered into His 
rest [keeping the Sabbath],> > He also has ceased from his own works, 
as God did> > from His [when He created the Sabbath day]"> 
> Do you believe this Marlin, that if we don't literally observe Saturday 
that> we will lose salvation?
 
Jesus, and most likely, Paul, answer this question in 
these two verses:
JOHN 9:41    Jesus said unto them, {If ye 
were blind, ye should have no sin: 
but    now ye 
say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.}HEB 10:26   For if we 
sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge 
of    the 
truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
> > Do you not recognize that the author of Hebrews was talking 
about a rest> other than Saturday observance?  Surely you are not 
blind to this spiritual> insight.
 
The author of Hebrews, inspired by the Holy Spirit, was 
using Sabbath keeping, which was being kept by the Hebrews, to show the 
substance of other truths.  The author was referencing Psalm 95, especially 
verses 7,8, and 11, a song which is all about the meaning of the Sabbaths, Gen 
2:2, and Numbers 14.
 
1) to show that we should not be as those who came out of the 
bondage of Egypt and did not enter into the promised land because of 
unbelief.
 
2) to show in Heb 4:11, that we believers should "LABOR" (work) "to 
enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example 
of unbelief."  
 
3) To show, using the Sabbaths, that there is a rest that 
"remaineth" to the people of God.  (Heb 4:9).  I believe these to be 
the promises of eternal life and the millennial reign of Christ on the 
earth.  (The meek shall inherit the earth.)  Heb 4:11 shows that the 
rest has not yet come to pass for the people of God.
 
4) To show that the WORD of God is judging the intents of our hearts 
TODAY.  (Heb 4:12-13)
 
NUM 14:22   Because all those men which have seen my glory, and 
my 
miracles,    
which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me 
now    these 
ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice;NUM 14:23   Surely 
they shall not see the land which I sware unto 
their    
fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:
NUM 14:29   Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all 
that were    
numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty 
years    old 
and upward, which have murmured against me,NUM 14:31   But your 
little ones, which ye said should be a prey, them will 
I    bring

Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?

2002-11-23 Thread michael douglas

 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?

2002-11-23 Thread GJTabor

Marlin, YOU, that's YOU, do NOT, that's do NOT, keep the Old Testament Sabbath completely.  YOU, that's' YOU, condemn yourself by not completely keeping the Old Testament Sabbath.  
YOU MUST STONE ME TO DEATH TO KEEP THE OLD TESTAMENT SABBATH.  I reject the Old Testament Sabbath.  
Has Satan blinded you or has your stubbornness which is as witchcraft blinded you?   

On the contrary, the Sabbath, made for man, establishes our relationship with Jesus because it is the special time He has asked us to keep holy for fellowshipping with Him.  We show our love for God by obeying His commandments.

Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?




Michael D: ".walking in the spirit"
So then, if I walk in the spirit I am a law breaker? 
--Marlin
 
Michael D: "These folks just refuse to see that God's sabbath is not a day, 
but a relationship of faith in Jesus Christ."  
 
HEB 4:7 Again, he limiteth 
a certain day, saying in David, To day, after 
so    long a 
time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his 
voice,    
harden not your hearts.HEB 4:8 For if Jesus had 
given them rest, then would he not afterward 
have    
spoken of another day.HEB 4:9 There 
remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
 
Michael D: "...the seventh day rest that God undertook, is 
not now accomplished by faith in Christ. ..." 
How does faith in Christ keep the fourth commandment, the 
one God said to remember?
 
Michael D: "...these 
folks...refute the transition from the day, to the relationship with 
Jesus)."
 
I can find plenty of evidence of God's people keeping the 
weekly Sabbath and holy day Sabbaths after Jesus died on the cross, but there is 
no scriptural evidence of a change in the Sabbath commandment, and no scriptural 
evidence of a "transition."
 
On the contrary, the Sabbath, made for 
man, establishes our relationship with Jesus because it is the 
special time He has asked us to keep holy for fellowshipping with 
Him.  We show our love for God by obeying His commandments.
 
JOH 14:15   {If ye love me, keep my 
commandments.}JOH 14:21   {He that hath my commandments, and 
keepeth them, he it is 
that    
loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and 
I    will 
love him, and will manifest myself to him.}JOH 15:10   {If ye keep 
my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as 
I    have 
kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.}
REV 22:14   Blessed [are] they that do his 
commandments, that they may 
have    right 
to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates 
into    the 
city.
 
This idea of a "transition" is a doctrine of men; it is 
not in the bible.
 
--Marlin

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  michael 
  douglas 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 8:46 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 
  commandments?
  
  Michael D:   Marlin, usually, I will not read 
  someone's commentary presented in answer to my comments in these discussions, 
  because I am not interested in what any authority's 
  position, but on what I see in the scriptures.  For instance, to say that 
  Chrisrians have to keep the sabbath, and not only that, but all of the 
  sabbaths, leads me to wonder at the level of deception these people are 
  existing. (I do not say that to be unkind, but out of deep concern). Do they 
  not rread in Colossians 2, where Paul says let no man judge you conc3erning 
  keeping the sabbath(s), which were only a shadow of things to come, but not 
  the true, but the body is of christ? Where do these folks get off 
  contradicting the Gospel of Christ and putting people in bondage that Christ 
  paid to free us from? That is deep deception. 
  The fact that Paul said that the sabbaths are a 
  shadow, and not the real, is the 
  basis of the NT teaching that the sabbath was a type of our rest in Christ, 
  through faith. For these folks to condemn that is to deny the salvation that 
  is in Christ alone, and to nullify His work on the cross for us. 
  Now, why would any one want the shadow and not the 
  real, I don't know. 
   Marlin Halverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote: 
  

"...because the commandment of Sabbath 
in the NT is our rest in Jesus as I previously mentioned re Hebrews 
4."
 
The following 
is from: http://www.cbcg.org/true_sabbath.doc --Marlin
 

"Many 
ministers and theologians have applied the opposite meaning to Hebrews 
4:9.  They have completely 
misinterpreted the King James Version of this verse, which reads, There 
remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.  They teach that Christians are no 
longer required to observe the Sabbath because Jesus Christ has given them 
rest by releasing them from commandment keeping and thereby He fulfilled 
the law for them.  As a result, 
they are told that he or she has entered into a spiritual rest from sin 
and does not have to keep the commandments of God.  Such 
reasoning is completely false???   Jesus Himself said that He did not 
come to abolish or do away with the laws and commandments of God, but to 
fulfill them.  Did 
you read I Tim 1, that I shared in a previous post? It says that there 
are people who want to use the law, but miss it altogether. Paul said that 
the law is good if a man use it lawfully. It was not made for a righteous 
man but for sinners. Did you consider th

Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?

2002-11-23 Thread michael douglas

 
 Marlin Halverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Do they not rread in Colossians 2, [? Who is not reading?]
 
Michael D:  I humbly submit that it seems like these commentators aren't, neither are you. Read Colossians 2:  
16.  Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink or in respect of a holy day, on of the new moon, or of the sabbath days . 
 
Notice the 'days' are in italics in the KJV. Sounds familiar to me... Doesn't it?
 
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Re: [TruthTalk]Only 9 of the 10 commandments

2002-11-23 Thread GJTabor

Marlin, what say ye? Are you going to address each comment here? Prove me wrong, for I say, you cannot and will not REFUTE each verse and comment.

Marlin Halverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
When people say that they do not want the law,
and that they want to do away with the Old Testement,
what they really want to do away with is Jesus Christ
because He is the Word made flesh. (John 1)

Michael D: Marlin, I think you have to be careful in how you represent what people say... No one wants to do away with the Old Testament. It is God's Word. Jesus said that they testify of Him.
The fact is that the OT did not usher in the age of grace through faith, by which we are justified by God. what I find though is that you are neglecting the clear teaching of the NT to hold on to OT types and shadows as requirements from God when God says something totally different.

Rom. 10: 4. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Rom. 9: 31. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32. Wherefore, because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone...

Rom. 7: 4. Wherefore, my brethren, ye are also become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit to God.

Rom. 3:19. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20. Therefore, by the deeds of the law there shall shall no flesh be justified in His sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets.

Now, Marlin, I can go on and on, but I think that the passages quoted are more than adequate to show, that the law had its place, but not for the Church.
Paul says Rom. 6: 14. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Now if you, or any one else, want to put yourself under the law, that's clearly your choice, but Paul clearly says that everything (without exception) that the law says is said to those who are under the law. He said that no one is justified by the works of the law. So don't be mistaken, if one depends on the law, he cannot attain to the righteousness of God.
And finally, I Timothy 1:

7. Desiring to be teachers of the law: understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. 8. But we know that the law is good if a man use it lawfully; 9. Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane... 10. ...and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11. According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God , which was committed to my trust.

When, then, you desire to bring believers in Christ back under the law, God condems that.
Please read Galatians 4.
For example, vs 21. Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
vs. 30. Nevertheless what saith the Scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bond woman shalll not be heir with the son of the free woman.
Unfortunately, this is what God will do to all who hold on to the bond woman. Gal 5:4.
There is alot to ponder here Marlin.

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Re: [TruthTalk]Only 9 of the 10 commandments

2002-11-23 Thread michael douglas

Marlin Halverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

When people say that they do not want the law,
and that they want to do away with the Old Testement,
what they really want to do away with is Jesus Christ
because He is the Word made flesh. (John 1)
Michael D: Marlin, I think you have to be careful in how you represent what people say... No one wants to do away with the Old Testament. It is God's Word. Jesus said that they testify of Him.
The fact is that the OT did not usher in the age of grace through faith, by which we are justified by God. what I find though is that you are neglecting the clear teaching of the NT to hold on to OT types and shadows as requirements from God when God says something totally different.
Rom. 10: 4. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Rom. 9: 31. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32. Wherefore, because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone...
Rom. 7: 4. Wherefore, my brethren, ye are also become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit to God.
Rom. 3:19. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20. Therefore, by the deeds of the law there shall shall no flesh be justified in His sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets.
Now, Marlin, I can go on and on, but I think that the passages quoted are more than adequate to show, that the law had its place, but not for the Church.
Paul says Rom. 6: 14. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Now if you, or any one else, want to put yourself under the law, that's clearly your choice, but Paul clearly says that everything (without exception) that the law says is said to those who are under the law. He said that no one is justified by the works of the law. So don't be mistaken, if one depends on the law, he cannot attain to the righteousness of God.
And finally, I Timothy 1:
7. Desiring to be teachers of the law: understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. 8. But we know that the law is good if a man use it lawfully; 9. Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane... 10. ...and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11. According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God , which was committed to my trust.
When, then, you desire to bring believers in Christ back under the law, God condems that.
Please read Galatians 4.
For example, vs 21. Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
vs. 30. Nevertheless what saith the Scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bond woman shalll not be heir with the son of the free woman.
Unfortunately, this is what God will do to all who hold on to the bond woman. Gal 5:4.
There is alot to ponder here Marlin.
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Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?

2002-11-22 Thread GJTabor

You are a smart elick.  I am not showering you with blessings.  To shower you will blessings, what I say must be false.  The Holy Spirit does not lie.  You should listen but you will not because your stubbornness is as witchcraft.  

You are misusing Matt. 5:11 and John 15 just as you have misused other scriptures.  

You quote "JOH 15:21   {But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.}"  YOU ARE SAYING I AM NOT SAVED BECAUSE I DO NOT FOLLOW THE OLD TESTAMENT SABBATH.  You are misusing this verse.
I REBUKE YOU IN JESUS NAME FOR JUDGING MY ETERNAL SALVATION.   


Thank you, Glenn, for showering me with more blessings. MAT 5:11
I am sure that you get along with others much better than I do.

Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?




Thank you, Glenn, for showering me with more blessings. 
MAT 5:11
I am sure that you get along with others much better than 
I do.
 
JOH 15:14   {Ye are my friends, if ye do 
whatsoever I command you.}.
 
JOH 15:17   {These things I command you, that ye 
love one another.}JOH 15:18   {If the world hate you, ye know that 
it hated me before [it hated] you.}JOH 15:19   {If ye were of 
the world, the world would love his own: but 
because    ye 
are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the 
world,    
therefore the world hateth you.}JOH 15:20   {Remember the word 
that I said unto you, The servant is not 
greater    
than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also 
persecute    
you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.}JOH 
15:21   {But all these things will they do unto you for my 
name's 
sake,    
because they know not him that sent me.}

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 10:45 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 
  commandments?
  Marlin, You have a problem with getting along with people.  The 
  Holy Spirit revealed it to me the first time you posted.   You are 
  stubbord which is as witchcraft according to the Bible.   I'm not 
  saying you are saved.  I am saying it sounds like you have fallen from 
  grace.  Gal. 5:4.  But I will not make that judgment. 
  Glen:Truth is no respector of persons.Forget 
me.  I'm only a worm in God's eyes.What about God?  
What does God think?--Marlin

Re: [TruthTalk]Only 9 of the 10 commandments




When people say that they do not want the law, 

and that they want to do away with the Old Testement, 

what they really want to do away with is Jesus Christ 

because He is the Word made flesh. (John 1)
 
--Marlin

Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?

2002-11-22 Thread GJTabor

Marlin, You have a problem with getting along with people.  The Holy Spirit revealed it to me the first time you posted.   You are stubbord which is as witchcraft according to the Bible.   I'm not saying you are saved.  I am saying it sounds like you have fallen from grace.  Gal. 5:4.  But I will not make that judgment. 



Glen:
 
Truth is no respector of persons.
Forget me.  
I'm only a worm in God's eyes.
What about God?  
What does God think?
 
--Marlin

Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?

2002-11-22 Thread David Miller

Marlin wrote:
> The following is from: http://www.cbcg.org/true_sabbath.doc
>"Many ministers and theologians have applied the opposite
> meaning to Hebrews 4:9.  They have completely misinterpreted
> the King James Version of this verse, which reads, "There
> remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God."
> ... ...

Hi Marlin.  I had huge problems with the logic of this article that you
shared.  Basically it sought to establish the use of a same Greek word used
in the Septuagint to argue that Paul could only mean exactly the same thing
as that referred to in the Septuagint.  This is crazy.  People use words
figuratively all the time.  Water is sometimes used in the New Testament to
refer to the Word of God, and you can't argue that because in the Old
Testament it means real water that it must mean real water in the New
Testament.  Bread likewise is used this way.  Leaven is another thing that
in the New Testament refers to sin, and also to false doctrine and a false
political system.  What would you think if I pointed out how the same Greek
word is used in the Septuagint to refer to real leaven.  Are you really
going to think that therefore it must refer to actual leaven everywhere the
word is used in the New Testament?  Such logic is ludicrous.

The article said:
> The apostle Paul kept the holy days

True.

The article said:
> and commanded Gentile converts to keep them (I Cor. 5:7-8).

False.  This passage in 1 Cor. 5 is exactly one of those passages where Paul
sees clearly and expresses to the believers how that Christ has become our
passover sacrifice, so now we are in the days of unleavened bread and we
should put away the leaven.  He is not talking about literal leaven that is
put out during the days of unleavened bread anymore than he is talking about
the literal passover lamb that was killed and eaten at passover.  He is
talking about how when believers become saved in Jesus Christ, they
immediately put away from themselves the leaven of sin from their lives,
just as the shadow of the feasts depict.  Notice how this passage says, "not
with old leaven" and "with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth."  He
spells it out clearly for everyone that the unleavened bread he speaks of is
not something you put in your mouth and eat.  Rather, he is speaking about
the sincerity and truth that we need to walk in when we believe upon Jesus
Christ and eat him as our passover lamb (spiritually speaking, not
literally).

I think observing passover and the feast of unleavened bread is wonderful.
Paul, being a Jew, kept these feasts and taught their application to the
believer.  I have been in Israel during Passover and the feast of unleavened
bread, and the imagery is fantastic when you have all these hotel owners and
restaurant owners washing all their things outside, getting rid of every bit
of leaven.  People meticulously vacuum their cars to make sure every bit of
leaven is gone.  When a person understands how this leaven represents sin,
to see all the industry given to making sure the leaven is all gone, how
clear it becomes that we must put away every speck of sin that might be
residing somewhere in our lives.

I have Jewish friends who are not Christian.  During Passover and the feast
I was visiting one of these friends in Israel.  I asked him if he knew why
the Scriptures told them to get rid of the leaven.  Did he know why they
were doing all this.  He said no, only that the Torah says to do it.  You
should have seen his eyes widen when I explained how our Christian
perspective is that the leaven represents sin, and therefore, when we come
to Christ who is the true passover lamb, we must immediately put forth all
the leaven (sin) in our lives and enter into his rest.  He has lived in this
culture his whole life and never heard that.  In my culture, people don't
understand what it takes to get rid of all the leaven in the household.
Bringing these cultures together is wonderful I think.

The article said:
> Paul carries his instruction even further, showing that
> we have to keep the Sabbath or lose salvation.
> "For he that is entered into His rest [keeping the Sabbath],
> He also has ceased from his own works, as God did
> from His [when He created the Sabbath day]"

Do you believe this Marlin, that if we don't literally observe Saturday that
we will lose salvation?

Do you not recognize that the author of Hebrews was talking about a rest
other than Saturday observance?  Surely you are not blind to this spiritual
insight.

Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida  USA

--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?

intents of the heart" (Heb. 4:10-12, AT).
What could be more clear?
God's Holy Word reveals that if we want to be true Christians, we
must be loving God the Father and Jesus Christ. We must be living by every word of
God, keeping His commandments.
This is how we are to follow Jesus Christ and the teachings of the
Bible. There is no question
that we should be observing the seventh-day weekly Sabbath as the day of
worship and fellowship."

- Original Message -
From:
michael
douglas
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002
9:09 AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of
the 10 commandments?

ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

Michael
D: Izzy, do you hope to achieve by seeting yourself to
obey the ten commandments?
What do you hope to achieve by obeying the other nine? Or dont
you believe they exist anymore, either? Izzy
Also,
If I may add... Keeping your Sabbath is something you must do
because you need to obey your conscience (from what you have
shared), but I would suggest that it is not part of fulfilling
the ten commandments, because the commandment of Sabbath in the NT
is our rest in Jesus as I previously mentioned re Hebrews 4.
Why
did Jesus, the apostles, and all the Believers keep the Sabbath?
Please write specifically what scripture you think says
this.
Michael D: Izzy, I am in agreement with Glenn's answer
on this. Many things Jesus did, He did it because He submitted to
the old covenant. That's why I keep asking, and ask here again,
where in the Church age are we commanded to keep the
sabbath day. Can you furnish me an answer for that one? I would
appreciate that.
Also, I keep referring you to Hebrews 4. I quoted some
of the verses for you and Marlin in a recent post. Have you had an
opportunity to consider those verses, and the thoughts I expressed
concerning them?
Sabbath
in the Church is no longer a day. If we have worry
or unbelief, or if we try to be accepted by God through
our good works, or our faithfulness/obedience to Him... we have
broken God's Sabbath, we enter into God's Sabbath when we enter into
the rest of faith, as Hebrews 4 says ...he that has entered into his
rest has ceased from his own works as God ceased from His... We
accept the finished work of Jesus on the cross, that is the
fulfilling of the OT type y sabbath. So
you have ceased from all good works?
Paul encourages us to keep good works as a testimony
to Christ in our lives...
And from
obeying Gods laws? IWhere does it say to do this? I am forbidden by the scriptures from walking in the
old covenant. I fulfil God's commandments according to the new
covenant...

Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your
needs.

Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?

 of worship and fellowship."

- Original Message - 
From: michael douglas 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 9:09 AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?

 ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

 Michael D:   Izzy, do you hope to achieve by seeting yourself to obey the ten commandments?    What do you hope to achieve by obeying the other nine? Or dont you believe they exist anymore, either? Izzy
Also, If I may add... Keeping your Sabbath is something you must do because you need to obey your conscience (from what you have shared),  but I would suggest that it is not part of fulfilling the ten commandments, because the commandment of Sabbath in the NT is our rest in Jesus as I previously mentioned re Hebrews 4. Why did Jesus, the apostles, and all the Believers keep the Sabbath? Please write specifically what scripture you think says this.   
Michael D: Izzy, I am in agreement with Glenn's answer on this. Many things Jesus did, He did it because He submitted to the old covenant. That's why I keep asking, and ask here again, where in the Church age are we commanded to keep the sabbath day. Can you furnish me an answer for that one? I would appreciate that.
Also, I keep referring you to Hebrews 4. I quoted some of the verses for you and Marlin in a recent post. Have you had an opportunity to consider those verses, and the thoughts I expressed concerning them?   
Sabbath in the Church is no longer a day. If we have worry or unbelief,  or if we try to be accepted by God through our good works, or our faithfulness/obedience to Him... we have broken God's Sabbath, we enter into God's Sabbath when we enter into the rest of faith, as Hebrews 4 says ...he that has entered into his rest has ceased from his own works as God ceased from His... We accept the finished work of Jesus on the cross, that is the fulfilling of the OT type y sabbath.  So you have ceased from all good works? 
Paul encourages us to keep good works as a testimony to Christ in our lives... 
And from obeying Gods laws? IWhere does it say to do this? I am forbidden by the scriptures from walking in the old covenant. I fulfil God's commandments according to the new covenant...Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.

Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?

th as the day of worship and fellowship."

- Original Message - 
From: michael douglas 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 9:09 AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?

 ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

 Michael D:   Izzy, do you hope to achieve by seeting yourself to obey the ten commandments?    What do you hope to achieve by obeying the other nine? Or dont you believe they exist anymore, either? Izzy
Also, If I may add... Keeping your Sabbath is something you must do because you need to obey your conscience (from what you have shared),  but I would suggest that it is not part of fulfilling the ten commandments, because the commandment of Sabbath in the NT is our rest in Jesus as I previously mentioned re Hebrews 4. Why did Jesus, the apostles, and all the Believers keep the Sabbath? Please write specifically what scripture you think says this.   
Michael D: Izzy, I am in agreement with Glenn's answer on this. Many things Jesus did, He did it because He submitted to the old covenant. That's why I keep asking, and ask here again, where in the Church age are we commanded to keep the sabbath day. Can you furnish me an answer for that one? I would appreciate that.
Also, I keep referring you to Hebrews 4. I quoted some of the verses for you and Marlin in a recent post. Have you had an opportunity to consider those verses, and the thoughts I expressed concerning them?   
Sabbath in the Church is no longer a day. If we have worry or unbelief,  or if we try to be accepted by God through our good works, or our faithfulness/obedience to Him... we have broken God's Sabbath, we enter into God's Sabbath when we enter into the rest of faith, as Hebrews 4 says ...he that has entered into his rest has ceased from his own works as God ceased from His... We accept the finished work of Jesus on the cross, that is the fulfilling of the OT type y sabbath.  So you have ceased from all good works? 
Paul encourages us to keep good works as a testimony to Christ in our lives... 
And from obeying Gods laws? IWhere does it say to do this? I am forbidden by the scriptures from walking in the old covenant. I fulfil God's commandments according to the new covenant...Get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs.

Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?





Glen:
 
Truth is no respector of persons.Forget 
me.  
I'm only a worm in God's eyes.
What about God?  
What does God think?
 
--Marlin

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 7:43 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 
  commandments?
  The 
  reason I think this is wrong is because Marlin 
..

Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?

l, quotes extensively from the Septuagint in his epistle to the Hebrews.  When Paul used the Greek word sabbatismoV sabbatismos in Hebrews 4:9, he knew that the meaning of this word was well known to the Greek-speaking believers of that day.  The verb form sabbatizw, sabbatizo was used in the Septuagint which was as familiar to the Greek-speaking Jews and Gentiles of New Testament times as the King James Bible is to Christians today.
 
The use of the verb sabbatizw sabbatizo in Leviticus 23:32 in the Septuagint leaves no room to mistake its meaning. The Greek English Lexicon of the Septuagint defines sabbatizw sabb
atizo as to keep sabbath, to rest (Lust, Eynikel, Hauspie). The English translation of this verse in the Septuagint reads: It [the Day of Atonement] shall be a holy sabbath [literally, a Sabbath of Sabbaths] to you; and ye shall humble your souls, from the ninth day of the month: from evening to evening shall ye keep your sabbaths (The Septuagint With the Apocrypha, Brenton). 
 
    The phrase shall ye keep your sabbaths is translated from the Greek phrase sabbatieite ta sabbata sabbatieite ta sabbata, which literally means, You shall sabbathize the Sabbaths.  The form of the Greek verb sabbatizw
 sabbatizo is the second person plural sabbatieite sabbatieite, which means, ye shall keep.  Since the verb sabbathize, means to keep the Sabbath, this verb is a special verb that also relates to and defines Sabbath-keeping, for Gods command for the land Sabbath every seven years.  In the entire Septuagint, the verb sabbatizw sabbatizo is never used to define the keeping of anything else. Rather, it is always used in relation to Sabbath-keeping and Sabbath-keeping only.  In keeping with this definition, the KJV translates sabbatieite sabbatieite, this way: shall ye celebrate your sabbath.  
 
There is no question that the Greek verb sabbatizw sabbatizo in Leviticus 23:32 is specifically referring to Sabbath observance.  This meaning applies equally to the noun form sabbatismoV sabbatismos, which we find in Pauls epistle to Hebrews.  The fact that Paul used the Septuagint translation in this epistle confirms that the meaning word sabbatismoV sabbatismos, in Hebrews 4:9, is in complete accord with the meaning of sabbatieite ta sabbata sabbatieite ta sabbata, in Leviticus 23:32. Clearly Paul is upholding the observance
 of the Sabbath, the seventh day of the week.
 
The use of the Greek word sabbatismoV sabbatismos in Hebrews 4:9 contradicts the teachings that the Fourth Commandment has been abolished.  As the context of this verse shows, the observance of the seventh day as a day of rest and worship is as binding for the people of God today, as it was for Israel of old. In addition to the weekly Sabbath, the annual holy days that God commanded, which are also called Sabbaths, are included in the Fourth Commandme
nt. In the same manner as true believers are commanded to keep the seventh-day Sabbath, they are also commanded to observe the annual holy days of God.  The early New Testament church kept the holy days of God, as determined by the calculated Hebrew Calendar.  The apostle Paul kept the holy days and commanded Gentile converts to keep them (I Cor. 5:7-8).  None of the apostles or the early converts to Christianity observed the pagan holidays that are now called Christmas or Easter.  These holidays, which originated in sun worship, were later adopted into Christianity, through the influence of the Roman church.  They became false substitutes for the annual holy days that are commanded by God, just as Sunday has become a false substitute for the weekly Sabbath. 
 
    Paul carries his instruction even further, showing that we have to keep the Sabbath or lose salvation.  "For he that is entered into His rest [keeping the Sabbath], He also has ceased from his own works, as God did from His [when He created the Sabbath day] 
 
    "We should be diligent therefore to enter into that rest [Sabbath-keeping, as well as striving to enter into the Kingdom of God], lest anyone fall after the same example of disobedience.    For the Word of God is living, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is able to judge the thoughts and intents of the heart" (Heb. 4:10-12, AT).
 
    What could be more clear?  God's Holy Word reveals that if we want to be true Christians, we must be loving God the Father and Jesus Christ.  We must be living by every word of God, keeping His commandments.  This is how we are to follow Jesus Christ and the teachings of the Bible.  There is no question that we should be observing the seventh-day weekly Sabbath as the day of worship and fellowship."
 
 

- Original Message - 
From: michael douglas 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 9:09 AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]

Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?

l, quotes extensively from the Septuagint in his epistle to the Hebrews.  When Paul used the Greek word sabbatismoV sabbatismos in Hebrews 4:9, he knew that the meaning of this word was well known to the Greek-speaking believers of that day.  The verb form sabbatizw, sabbatizo was used in the Septuagint which was as familiar to the Greek-speaking Jews and Gentiles of New Testament times as the King James Bible is to Christians today.
 
The use of the verb sabbatizw sabbatizo in Leviticus 23:32 in the Septuagint leaves no room to mistake its meaning. The Greek English Lexicon of the Septuagint defines sabbatizw sabb
atizo as to keep sabbath, to rest (Lust, Eynikel, Hauspie). The English translation of this verse in the Septuagint reads: It [the Day of Atonement] shall be a holy sabbath [literally, a Sabbath of Sabbaths] to you; and ye shall humble your souls, from the ninth day of the month: from evening to evening shall ye keep your sabbaths (The Septuagint With the Apocrypha, Brenton). 
 
    The phrase shall ye keep your sabbaths is translated from the Greek phrase sabbatieite ta sabbata sabbatieite ta sabbata, which literally means, You shall sabbathize the Sabbaths.  The form of the Greek verb sabbatizw
 sabbatizo is the second person plural sabbatieite sabbatieite, which means, ye shall keep.  Since the verb sabbathize, means to keep the Sabbath, this verb is a special verb that also relates to and defines Sabbath-keeping, for Gods command for the land Sabbath every seven years.  In the entire Septuagint, the verb sabbatizw sabbatizo is never used to define the keeping of anything else. Rather, it is always used in relation to Sabbath-keeping and Sabbath-keeping only.  In keeping with this definition, the KJV translates sabbatieite sabbatieite, this way: shall ye celebrate your sabbath.  
 
There is no question that the Greek verb sabbatizw sabbatizo in Leviticus 23:32 is specifically referring to Sabbath observance.  This meaning applies equally to the noun form sabbatismoV sabbatismos, which we find in Pauls epistle to Hebrews.  The fact that Paul used the Septuagint translation in this epistle confirms that the meaning word sabbatismoV sabbatismos, in Hebrews 4:9, is in complete accord with the meaning of sabbatieite ta sabbata sabbatieite ta sabbata, in Leviticus 23:32. Clearly Paul is upholding the observance
 of the Sabbath, the seventh day of the week.
 
The use of the Greek word sabbatismoV sabbatismos in Hebrews 4:9 contradicts the teachings that the Fourth Commandment has been abolished.  As the context of this verse shows, the observance of the seventh day as a day of rest and worship is as binding for the people of God today, as it was for Israel of old. In addition to the weekly Sabbath, the annual holy days that God commanded, which are also called Sabbaths, are included in the Fourth Commandme
nt. In the same manner as true believers are commanded to keep the seventh-day Sabbath, they are also commanded to observe the annual holy days of God.  The early New Testament church kept the holy days of God, as determined by the calculated Hebrew Calendar.  The apostle Paul kept the holy days and commanded Gentile converts to keep them (I Cor. 5:7-8).  None of the apostles or the early converts to Christianity observed the pagan holidays that are now called Christmas or Easter.  These holidays, which originated in sun worship, were later adopted into Christianity, through the influence of the Roman church.  They became false substitutes for the annual holy days that are commanded by God, just as Sunday has become a false substitute for the weekly Sabbath. 
 
    Paul carries his instruction even further, showing that we have to keep the Sabbath or lose salvation.  "For he that is entered into His rest [keeping the Sabbath], He also has ceased from his own works, as God did from His [when He created the Sabbath day] 
 
    "We should be diligent therefore to enter into that rest [Sabbath-keeping, as well as striving to enter into the Kingdom of God], lest anyone fall after the same example of disobedience.    For the Word of God is living, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is able to judge the thoughts and intents of the heart" (Heb. 4:10-12, AT).
 
    What could be more clear?  God's Holy Word reveals that if we want to be true Christians, we must be loving God the Father and Jesus Christ.  We must be living by every word of God, keeping His commandments.  This is how we are to follow Jesus Christ and the teachings of the Bible.  There is no question that we should be observing the seventh-day weekly Sabbath as the day of worship and fellowship."
 
 

- Original Message - 
From: michael douglas 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 9:09 AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]

Re: [TruthTalk] Only 9 of the 10 commandments?