Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On 2022-02-11 12:15, fed...@cwm030.com wrote: Hi Ya'll, I know that there are, to me, seems like A LOT of email clients for the linux world. And It's getting harder and harder for me to hop around and try new email clients out when they come out being a..GET READY TO CRINGE. POP3 user. Last week I tried TDE ( Trinity Desktop ) on Debian. and decided to give KMAIL a try... Big mistake... Importing my email into KMAIL caused the emails names to be changed from numbers ( because I used Claws before) to this weird string of letters and numbers. Therefore, I could not import my email back to CLAWS since I gave up and returned to Fedora and Gnome 3. I plan on staying with Fedora and Gnome 3. I thought about making the change to IMAP, but old habits die hard. I find myself when I set up or try a new email client, I wind up setting it up as POP3... So I am just curious if there is any POP users still out there And what are some pros and cons switching to IMAP? And what program do you use on Fedora for your email? Thanks, Chris Also... I forgot to add... I have emails saved in the Claws-Mail format going all the way back to 2016 when I first got this domain. My current Claws-Mail file stands at 719.4 MB. I have enough data for a Ubuntu 13.x ISO.. Back when Linux ISO's were 700 Megs. What happened to those days? :\ Chris ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 12:15:42 -0600 fed...@cwm030.com wrote: > And what are some pros and cons switching to IMAP? > > And what program do you use on Fedora for your email? I use fetchmail to download mail from every other mail server onto my home machine, where fetchmail then injects the mail into the dovecot imap server. With dovecot sieve support, I filter the mail into appropriate IMAP folders (or simply discard it). Then I can use any email client to talk to my local IMAP server without having to convert or transfer mail anywhere. The client I like best is claws-mail which allows be to disable html mail so I can example any plain text before deciding to actually read it (by opening in chrome). ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 12:15:42 -0600 fed...@cwm030.com wrote: > Hi Ya'll, > > I know that there are, to me, seems like A LOT of email clients for the > linux world. > > And It's getting harder and harder for me to hop around and try new > email clients out when they come out being a..GET READY TO > CRINGE. POP3 user. > > Last week I tried TDE ( Trinity Desktop ) on Debian. and decided to give > KMAIL a try... Big mistake... Importing my email into KMAIL caused the > emails names to be changed from numbers ( because I used Claws before) > to this weird string of letters and numbers. Therefore, I could not > import my email back to CLAWS since I gave up and returned to Fedora and > Gnome 3. > > I plan on staying with Fedora and Gnome 3. > > I thought about making the change to IMAP, but old habits die hard. I > find myself when I set up or try a new email client, I wind up setting > it up as POP3... > > So I am just curious if there is any POP users still out there > > And what are some pros and cons switching to IMAP? > > And what program do you use on Fedora for your email? I use Fedora and claws-mail. I also use pop3. I do not leave any thing on someone else's server (no contact list, no emails, etc). That way I am much less likely to have someone hack my email account and send spam emails out to everyone in my contact list. David > > Thanks, > Chris > ___ > users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List > Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List > Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
Hello Chris, On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 12:15:42 -0600 fed...@cwm030.com wrote: > I know that there are, to me, seems like A LOT of email clients for the linux > world. > > And It's getting harder and harder for me to hop around and try new email > clients out when they come out being a..GET READY TO CRINGE. POP3 > user. > > Last week I tried TDE ( Trinity Desktop ) on Debian. and decided to give > KMAIL a try... Big mistake... Importing my email into KMAIL caused the emails > names to be changed from numbers ( because I used Claws before) to this weird > string of letters and numbers. Therefore, I could not import my email back to > CLAWS since I gave up and returned to Fedora and Gnome 3. > > I plan on staying with Fedora and Gnome 3. > > I thought about making the change to IMAP, but old habits die hard. I find > myself when I set up or try a new email client, I wind up setting it up as > POP3... > > So I am just curious if there is any POP users still out there > > And what are some pros and cons switching to IMAP? > > And what program do you use on Fedora for your email? I use Claws Mail on several systems (including a Fedora and a CentOS), with POP3 on my main machine (where I keep the whole history of my emails), and IMAP4 on secondary or mobile devices or for accounts where it's pertinent. Whenever to use POP or IMAP is very dependent on some factors or criteria that a quite subjective. I personally prefer not keeping personal stuff on remote servers, and I having a reference machine where POP3 is used if possible. Which means: using IMAP only for very specific uses. Moreover, using IMAP will make you dependent of remote resource and you must be online, the use of IMAP accounts generate much more network traffic, that's a problem to me. I also experienced very slow or unreliable IMAP servers (orange.fr, the worst one ever?) and when it's slow or not reliable, having to push everything online (drafts, sent and their copy to Sent emails, ..) is just a pain in the *ss. Regards, -- wwp https://useplaintext.email/ pgphDuOhfsv9L.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Fri, 2022-02-11 at 12:15 -0600, fed...@cwm030.com wrote: > Hi Ya'll, > > I know that there are, to me, seems like A LOT of email clients for > the > linux world. > > And It's getting harder and harder for me to hop around and try new > email clients out when they come out being a..GET READY TO > CRINGE. POP3 user. > > Last week I tried TDE ( Trinity Desktop ) on Debian. and decided to > give > KMAIL a try... Big mistake... Importing my email into KMAIL caused > the > emails names to be changed from numbers ( because I used Claws > before) > to this weird string of letters and numbers. Therefore, I could not > import my email back to CLAWS since I gave up and returned to Fedora > and > Gnome 3. > > I plan on staying with Fedora and Gnome 3. > > I thought about making the change to IMAP, but old habits die hard. I > find myself when I set up or try a new email client, I wind up > setting > it up as POP3... > > So I am just curious if there is any POP users still out there > > And what are some pros and cons switching to IMAP? I stopped using POP around 10 years ago. The biggest pro is that you can keep your mail on a server and access it from multiple clients. That includes organizing it in folders. You can't realistically do this in POP. The only "con" is again that you're keeping your mail on a server. However even that isn't a limitation as you can easily download it for off-line access. Good IMAP clients will do this automatically if you want. > And what program do you use on Fedora for your email? Evolution. I also use Gmail, but have my Gmail accounts set up for IMAP access so I can see them in Evolution, or on the web client, or on my phone app. poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On 11Feb2022 12:15, fed...@cwm030.com wrote: >So I am just curious if there is any POP users still out there I use POP3 to collect email from my mailboxes and store it locally in my mail folders. That way all my email is here, and I can use what I like. >And what are some pros and cons switching to IMAP? Mostly that your email is effectively in the cloud (even if you run the server yourself) and accessible from multiple readers and locations (eg from your phone, from your laptop, from your desktop). Downside is that either your mail reader needs to maintain a local cache (most do anyway, if just for performance) or you can't read email when offline (eg on a train). >And what program do you use on Fedora for your email? I read my email with mutt (a terminal based mail reader). It can talk directly to POP3 or IMAP if you want to leave your email upstream, but I use it locally on my laptop. I'm on MacOS right now, but did the same on Linux when that was my desktop. And on Solaris etc etc before that. Cheers, Cameron Simpson ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 12:15:42PM -0600, fed...@cwm030.com wrote: [ ... ] So I am just curious if there is any POP users still out there Me! ... :) And what are some pros and cons switching to IMAP? Why should I need IMAP? With `fetchmail', that I use, it seems I can even keep emails on the remote POP server - I usually just don't need that. And what program do you use on Fedora for your email? Mutt. But I'd recommend clawsmail easily to anyone needing reliable email software. The reasons I have mutt is simply because I've had it for decades; except for an `outlook' account I got sendmail working (I'm still wondering how I did that); and I really like the looks of email in a decently coloured terminal. That clawsmail feature when setting up an email account - just one example - to find the server ports for an account by simply telling the program to find them - that's just wild .. There's one thing I miss in clawsmail, and that is permanent mail logs, i.e. logs that are saved somewhere to disk after closing the program. HTH Wolfgang ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
Chris: >> And what are some pros and cons switching to IMAP? Wolfgang Pfeiffer: > Why should I need IMAP? > > With `fetchmail', that I use, it seems I can even keep emails on the > remote POP server - I usually just don't need that. > Although you can leave mails on a server with POP3, and just read newer ones, it's not designed for that usage pattern. It can be very painful, and fail spectacularly. There's nothing stopping a server renumbering your messages, then there's no correlation between what you've already got and not yet seen. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.53.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jan 14 13:59:45 UTC 2022 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
Chris: >> And what are some pros and cons switching to IMAP? >> >> And what program do you use on Fedora for your email? Tom Horsley wrote: > I use fetchmail to download mail from every other mail server > onto my home machine, where fetchmail then injects the mail > into the dovecot imap server. With dovecot sieve support, > I filter the mail into appropriate IMAP folders (or simply > discard it). Then I can use any email client to talk to > my local IMAP server without having to convert or transfer > mail anywhere. > I do the same thing, excepting that I use Evolution as my mail client. But since the mail is on a server, not in my mail client, I can try out alternative clients and not lose any mail. Thus far, Evolution is the least-worst one I've found on Linux. I have a small LAN, and it's handy to be able to do mail on any computer, and having it all in one server helps with that. I don't really need to do mail away from my LAN. If I did, I could make my mail server publicly accessible, but I'd rather not deal with that security nightmare. The alternative would be to use an external mail service that dragged in all mail from other addresses to it. Plenty offer that feature, or used to (it's years since I looked). Mail in IMAP has various advantages that POP3 doesn't have. You can look at the headers of all available messages, and only fetch the ones your interested in (by name, subject, etc). You can filter based on headers (and that's quicker than taking the whole message in and filtering). A standard way of marking messages as read/unread, etc. Here, read what someone else has said, instead of me going through them all: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Message_Access_Protocol -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.53.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jan 14 13:59:45 UTC 2022 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 at 08:01, Tim via users wrote: > Chris: > >> And what are some pros and cons switching to IMAP? > >> > >> And what program do you use on Fedora for your email? > > Tom Horsley wrote: > > I use fetchmail to download mail from every other mail server > > onto my home machine, where fetchmail then injects the mail > > into the dovecot imap server. With dovecot sieve support, > > I filter the mail into appropriate IMAP folders (or simply > > discard it). Then I can use any email client to talk to > > my local IMAP server without having to convert or transfer > > mail anywhere. > > > > > I do the same thing, excepting that I use Evolution as my mail client. > But since the mail is on a server, not in my mail client, I can try out > alternative clients and not lose any mail. Thus far, Evolution is the > least-worst one I've found on Linux. > > I have a small LAN, and it's handy to be able to do mail on any > computer, and having it all in one server helps with that. I don't > really need to do mail away from my LAN. If I did, I could make my > mail server publicly accessible, but I'd rather not deal with that > security nightmare. The alternative would be to use an external mail > service that dragged in all mail from other addresses to it. Plenty > offer that feature, or used to (it's years since I looked). > > Mail in IMAP has various advantages that POP3 doesn't have. > > You can look at the headers of all available messages, and only fetch > the ones your interested in (by name, subject, etc). You can filter > based on headers (and that's quicker than taking the whole message in > and filtering). > IMAP can use folders (aka multiple mailboxes) on the server. I haven't used POP since IMAP2bis arrived in pine -- maybe modern POP3 supports folders. My pre-retirement work often involved sorting out issues on random workstations (back when people had actual offices scattered over a couple floors/buildings) so it was important to have quick access to email via IMAP from whatever workstation was having issues. > > A standard way of marking messages as read/unread, etc. > > Here, read what someone else has said, instead of me going through them > all: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Message_Access_Protocol -- George N. White III ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Sat, 2022-02-12 at 09:06 -0400, George N. White III wrote: > IMAP can use folders (aka multiple mailboxes) on the server. I > haven't > used > POP since IMAP2bis arrived in pine -- maybe modern POP3 supports > folders. It doesn't. The POP model has not fundamentally changed since its creation. IMAP was designed mainly to overcome its many limitations while still offering everything that POP has. poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 22:31:10 +1030 Tim via users wrote: > Tom Horsley wrote: > > I use fetchmail to download mail from every other mail server > > onto my home machine, where fetchmail then injects the mail > > into the dovecot imap server. With dovecot sieve support, > > I filter the mail into appropriate IMAP folders (or simply > > discard it). Then I can use any email client to talk to > > my local IMAP server without having to convert or transfer > > mail anywhere. That is true, you could use any mail client that you want to. >>Thus far, Evolution is the least-worst one I've found on Linux.<< You must of never had to use the Evolution mail group before.. They're quite rude over there. Basically, they give you the nice " GO RTFM" for replies, even though you tried Googling your issue. " Go to HELP > AND " and read the help guide." I use to really love Evolution until that started happening. > > Mail in IMAP has various advantages that POP3 doesn't have. > > You can look at the headers of all available messages, and only fetch > the ones your interested in (by name, subject, etc). You can filter > based on headers (and that's quicker than taking the whole message in > and filtering). > How do you do that? When I tried IMAP, on this sat dish connection, here in Claws, Claws slowly loaded the whole inbox and displayed everything in the inbox. And every time I switched folders it took it a min to display everything in that folder. Chris ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 11:11:15 +1100 Cameron Simpson wrote: > I read my email with mutt (a terminal based mail reader). It can talk > directly to POP3 or IMAP if you want to leave your email upstream, > but I use it locally on my laptop. I've tried ALPINE before and I found it hard to use. But I kinda liked it though. I've always wanted to know, where does your POP email get stored if you're using a email client via the terminal? Chris ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 22:54:16 +0100 wwp wrote: > Moreover, using IMAP will make > you dependent of remote resource and you must be online, the use of > IMAP accounts generate much more network traffic, that's a problem to > me. I also experienced very slow or unreliable IMAP servers > (orange.fr, the worst one ever?) and when it's slow or not reliable, > having to push everything online (drafts, sent and their copy to Sent > emails, ..) is just a pain in the *ss. About the network point you made: I am on a satellite dish connection and we only get so much data a month and then when we run out, we're lowered to 1 to 3 megs until our reset day. But, a lot of people on the internet has told me that IMAP doesn't use a lot of data. I don't believe it though. Chris ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 13:41:12 -0500 Tom Horsley wrote: > On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 12:15:42 -0600 > fed...@cwm030.com wrote: > > > And what are some pros and cons switching to IMAP? > > > > And what program do you use on Fedora for your email? > > I use fetchmail to download mail from every other mail server > onto my home machine, where fetchmail then injects the mail > into the dovecot imap server. With dovecot sieve support, > I filter the mail into appropriate IMAP folders (or simply > discard it). Then I can use any email client to talk to > my local IMAP server without having to convert or transfer > mail anywhere. > > The client I like best is claws-mail which allows be to disable > html mail so I can example any plain text before deciding to > actually read it (by opening in chrome). That sounds very confusing lol. I think if I was to use IMAP, I would redirect my email from my Web host's mailbox which only offers you 25 gigs of storage, to my FREE gmail account, since I am one of those that keeps EVERYTHING. At least GMAIL offers upgrades in storage space, where my web host doesn't. Chris ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
> Date: Sunday, February 13, 2022 13:13:42 -0600 > From: "c. marlow" > > On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 13:41:12 -0500 > Tom Horsley wrote: > >> On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 12:15:42 -0600 >> fed...@cwm030.com wrote: >> >> > And what are some pros and cons switching to IMAP? >> > >> > And what program do you use on Fedora for your email? >> >> I use fetchmail to download mail from every other mail server >> onto my home machine, where fetchmail then injects the mail >> into the dovecot imap server. With dovecot sieve support, >> I filter the mail into appropriate IMAP folders (or simply >> discard it). Then I can use any email client to talk to >> my local IMAP server without having to convert or transfer >> mail anywhere. >> >> The client I like best is claws-mail which allows be to disable >> html mail so I can example any plain text before deciding to >> actually read it (by opening in chrome). > > > That sounds very confusing lol. > > I think if I was to use IMAP, I would redirect my email from my > Web host's mailbox which only offers you 25 gigs of storage, to my > FREE gmail account, since I am one of those that keeps EVERYTHING. > At least GMAIL offers upgrades in storage space, where my web host > doesn't. > > Chris > I too have used the in-house imap server approach, for many years. There are different ways to pull mail from the MSP's imap server to your own. I happen to currently do this, with heavy filtering and folder management, via an imap client that is always up. I leave (and sometimes copying back) certain types of messages that I might need when remote on the MSP's server. Depending on my connectivity type I sometimes make my in-house server externally accessible. Once the messages are on your own server it's easy to manage things as you wish. Other benefits of course include system backups and not being dependent on the vagaries of a mail client, and desktop machine (or worse, mobile device) for maintaining the message store. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On 2022-02-13 2:09 p.m., c. marlow wrote: On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 22:54:16 +0100 wwp wrote: Moreover, using IMAP will make you dependent of remote resource and you must be online, the use of IMAP accounts generate much more network traffic, that's a problem to me. I also experienced very slow or unreliable IMAP servers (orange.fr, the worst one ever?) and when it's slow or not reliable, having to push everything online (drafts, sent and their copy to Sent emails, ..) is just a pain in the *ss. About the network point you made: I am on a satellite dish connection and we only get so much data a month and then when we run out, we're lowered to 1 to 3 megs until our reset day. But, a lot of people on the internet has told me that IMAP doesn't use a lot of data. I don't believe it though. That's actually a good reason to use IMAP instead, as the normal behaviour is to download the headers and not the bodies. You only download the bodies on mails that you read, so unless you don't get any spam or if you actually read every single message that you get, your bandwidth usage will normally appreciably be lower with IMAP. -- John Mellor ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On 13Feb2022 13:02, c. marlow wrote: >On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 11:11:15 +1100 >Cameron Simpson wrote: >> I read my email with mutt (a terminal based mail reader). It can talk >> directly to POP3 or IMAP if you want to leave your email upstream, >> but I use it locally on my laptop. > > >I've tried ALPINE before and I found it hard to use. > >But I kinda liked it though. > >I've always wanted to know, where does your POP email get stored if >you're using a email client via the terminal? Depends on the client. The client inherently has to download any email it doesn't have, so there will be some local storage. But in principle it can leave the email at the server. POP3's not great for that - there's only one serverside mail folder, not much state (I think you can mark things as read maybe - or maybe that too is client side). _If_ you're keeping your email server side, IMAP is a better choice. Most people using POP3 with mutt do not have mutt do the POP3 stuff - they collect it regularly from the server with a tool like fetchmail or getmail or my own "pop3" tool (which has a vast user base of 1, I think) and delivery it locally, either via something like procmail to spread the messages to suitable local folders or directly to some kind of spool or inbox folder for later refiling. Anyway, normally the collected messages are deleted from the server. Then you just run mutt against your local folders. Cheers, Cameron Simpson ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On 13Feb2022 13:02, c. marlow wrote: >On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 11:11:15 +1100 >I've tried ALPINE before and I found it hard to use. >But I kinda liked it though. A friend of mine uses Alpine IIRC. Seems to like it. Cheers, Cameron Simpson ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On 13Feb2022 12:58, c. marlow wrote: >How do you do that? When I tried IMAP, on this sat dish connection, >here in Claws, Claws slowly loaded the whole inbox and displayed >everything in the inbox. Ah, satellite land. Me too! >600ms ping times, best case (for geostationary). However, throughput can be ok, you just need to drive it well. That's what drove me to write my pop3 tool - things like ftechmail and getmail do synchronous fetch/delete steps per message. My tool stremas the fetches and also the deletes. Full speed throughput after the login step. Even over a 4G link it is far faster than getmail. >And every time I switched folders it took it a min to display everything >in that folder. The downside of serverside email, writ large. This is one of the reasons I like my email local. My filing system forwards "important" things to a distinct mailbox for my phone to access if I want an "in the cloud" copy. Cheers, Cameron Simpson ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
Thanks for the heads-up, Tim ... On Sat, Feb 12, 2022 at 10:21:47PM +1030, Tim via users wrote: Chris: And what are some pros and cons switching to IMAP? Wolfgang Pfeiffer: Why should I need IMAP? With `fetchmail', that I use, it seems I can even keep emails on the remote POP server - I usually just don't need that. Although you can leave mails on a server with POP3, and just read newer ones, it's not designed for that usage pattern. `man fetchmail': - -k | --keep (Keyword: keep) Keep retrieved messages on the remote mailserver. Normally, messages are deleted from the folder on the mailserver after they have been retrieved. Specifying the keep option causes retrieved messages to remain in your folder on the mailserver. This option does not work with ETRN or ODMR. If used with POP3, it is recommended to also specify the --uidl option or uidl keyword. - So it seems, leaving messages on the server after reading is not a problem for fetchmail, be it POP3 or whatever usage. But yes: it might lead to problems ... It can be very painful, and fail spectacularly. There's nothing stopping a server renumbering your messages, then there's no correlation between what you've already got and not yet seen. Seems to be it. Again `man fetchmail': -- RETRIEVAL FAILURE MODES [ ... ] A potential POP3 problem might be servers that insert messages in the middle of mailboxes (some VMS implementations of mail are rumored to do this). The fetchmail code assumes that new messages are appended to the end of the mailbox; when this is not true it may treat some old messages as new and vice versa. Using UIDL whilst setting fastuidl 0 might fix this, otherwise, consider switching to IMAP. -- The important part: "when this is not true it may treat some old messages as new and vice versa." Which might mean (I'm guessing here), with another read on the POP3 server one might get already downloaded messages a 2nd time, while the new ones are not delivered, when running fetchmail again with the "keep" option ... might *hopefully* be fixed with the "--all" (something like "fetch everything") option while running fetchmail next time. `man fetchmail' might be worth a read when considering POP3 or IMAP .. I really like the document. I've used fetchmail most of the time in its default mode, namely deleting emails after retrieving them from the POP3 server. That's probably why I never, IIRC, became aware of any delivery problems with fetchmail while using it for ~15 or 20 yrs. But true: setting up newly again my email accounts I might be using IMAP instead of POP3. Thanks again, Tim! Wolfgang ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Mon Feb14'22 08:34:39AM, Cameron Simpson wrote: > From: Cameron Simpson > Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2022 08:34:39 +1100 > To: Community support for Fedora users > Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users > Subject: Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management > > On 13Feb2022 13:02, c. marlow wrote: > >On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 11:11:15 +1100 > >Cameron Simpson wrote: > >> I read my email with mutt (a terminal based mail reader). It can talk > >> directly to POP3 or IMAP if you want to leave your email upstream, > >> but I use it locally on my laptop. > > > > > >I've tried ALPINE before and I found it hard to use. > > > >But I kinda liked it though. > > > >I've always wanted to know, where does your POP email get stored if > >you're using a email client via the terminal? > > Depends on the client. The client inherently has to download any email > it doesn't have, so there will be some local storage. But in principle > it can leave the email at the server. > > POP3's not great for that - there's only one serverside mail folder, not > much state (I think you can mark things as read maybe - or maybe that > too is client side). _If_ you're keeping your email server side, IMAP is > a better choice. > > Most people using POP3 with mutt do not have mutt do the POP3 stuff - > they collect it regularly from the server with a tool like fetchmail or > getmail or my own "pop3" tool (which has a vast user base of 1, I > think) I am tempted to send your IPO soaring. What/how does your pop3 tool work? It seems to have only 4 lines of code, but I have no idea what it can do:-) For the record, I use fetchmail on multiple accounts and then procmail. Three cheers for local email! Ranjan ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
John Mellor writes: On 2022-02-13 2:09 p.m., c. marlow wrote: I am on a satellite dish connection and we only get so much data a month and then when we run out, we're lowered to 1 to 3 megs until our reset day. But, a lot of people on the internet has told me that IMAP doesn't use a lot of data. I don't believe it though. That's actually a good reason to use IMAP instead, as the normal behaviour is to download the headers and not the bodies. You only download the bodies on mails that you read, so unless you don't get any spam or if you actually read every single message that you get, your bandwidth usage will normally appreciably be lower with IMAP. There's no such thing as "normal behavior" when it comes to IMAP. It all depends entirely on how a mail client uses it. It is true that IMAP offers a compact way of downloading a compact, capsule summary, of the messages in each folder. So, if your IMAP client uses it, great. But there's nothing that stops the IMAP client from downloading every email message in the mailbox, as soon as it sees it, if it so chooses to do so. pgpKmDSr93roJ.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
Tim: >> Thus far, Evolution is the least-worst one I've found on Linux. Chris: > You must of never had to use the Evolution mail group before.. > They're quite rude over there. Basically, they give you the nice " GO > RTFM" for replies, even though you tried Googling your issue. > > " Go to HELP > AND " and read the help guide." > > I use to really love Evolution until that started happening. True, I've never used their forum. Manual, what manual? Ha! I just pressed F1 for help, it opened my web browser to: https://help.gnome.org/users/evolution/3.28 Giving me: Not Found The requested URL /users/evolution/3.28 was not found on this server. But, in the past, I've seen Gnome manuals for such programs where all they do is give a one-liner on each control. This button downloads your mail, this button prints it. I can figure that out for myself. Narrating the icons and menu is useless. I need a manual that explains how your program does something, so I can figure out how to get it to do what it's supposed to, when it's not. Tell me how the different options for a function work, what they do. Though that problem is endemic with most software. But when I say "least worst" I mean various things like, the following, just to mention a few of the main ones: The program has to run without being a major CPU hog. I want to use a three-pane view (list of folders, list of mail in the current folder, and view the message). The layout needs to be ergonomic. I have to be able to read the contents in each pane without it being a pain, no reading a magazine through a keyhole effects. When I type a reply, I don't want mangled quoted paragraphs because your program is utterly crap at either not re-wrapping text, or does a job like a three-year old has typed it, with line breaks where they don't belong, mixtures of different length lines, quote indicators splattered through the paragraph and an untidy mess left of it. I need to be able to unmangle the quoted text without it being a major fight. Even more important, when I type MY text it has to be unmangled. It should be as good as a word processor at handling line breaks, especially if I edit a paragraph and change something in the middle. I've been doing email for around 30, and still morons write email programs that just can't get the basics right. I want proper flags on my mail. Only, ONLY, bloody ONLY, mark a mail as read if *I* have actually read it. Don't mark old mail as read to hide it from me. I need some damn way to tell which mails I've read and not read. If I'm ignoring a thread, don't mark it read, either do nothing or mark it ignored. If it's that bad I'll delete it. If I want to hide older mail to quickly see the latest, I'll use a filter that only shows me the last few days messages in the list. But when you mark an email as read, when I haven't, it makes it damn hard to find a message someone sent me a while ago but I haven't actually read. Considering how email is often used for business, in software that's supposed to be office software, it's vital to not bugger that up. It's not bloody rocket science! But there is some truly dire programs out there, including the main ones that most people use. I'm reminded of that scene in the Tomorrow Never Dies Bond film where the evil henchmen are having a video conference and one of them tells his boss: as requested the software is full of bugs, so they'll be updating for years. I'm sure that line was thrown in by a writer who was sick of Microsoft's crap. >> Mail in IMAP has various advantages that POP3 doesn't have. >> >> You can look at the headers of all available messages, and only >> fetch the ones your interested in (by name, subject, etc). You can >> filter based on headers (and that's quicker than taking the whole >> message in and filtering). > How do you do that? When I tried IMAP, on this sat dish connection, > here in Claws, Claws slowly loaded the whole inbox and displayed > everything in the inbox. > > And every time I switched folders it took it a min to display > everything in that folder. It's an option (depending on how good your software is client &/or server). When you open a mail folder, you can * Only fetch very brief headers only (e.g. from, to, subject, date), and it'll only fetch the actual message when you select it from your list. * Or, only prefetch more extensive headers (more headers that are useful for filtering) * prefetch the entire message * It's even optional about fetching attachments (brilliant for wading through mail where people have sent you 50 meg attachments). It is designed for being able to minimise network traffic and be more efficient at it. Though, your program also has to be written intelligently (I've already roasted that concept). And the very nature of email (lots of individual messages) does mean that some network environments are more painful than others. For laggy ones, it can be simplest t
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
Tim: >> Although you can leave mails on a server with POP3, and just read >> newer ones, it's not designed for that usage pattern. Wolfgang Pfeiffer: > `man fetchmail': > > - > -k | --keep > (Keyword: keep) > Keep retrieved messages on the remote mailserver. Normally, > messages are deleted from the folder on the mailserver after > they have been retrieved. Specifying the keep option causes > retrieved messages to remain in your folder on the mailserver. > This option does not work with ETRN or ODMR. If used with POP3, > it is recommended to also specify the --uidl option or uidl > keyword. > - > > So it seems, leaving messages on the server after reading is not a > problem for fetchmail, be it POP3 or whatever usage. But, and it's a very big but, you're entirely dependent on a POP3 server working in a way that's compatible with that (added) feature. It's a kludge hacked on, always remember that. Even if you have a mail server that doesn't renumber all your messages between mail runs you need to parse a large list (if you keep messages on the inbox), and that gets significantly worse as it increases. On my LAN mail server, using maildir folders accessed with IMAP, I have one mailing list folder with 19,734 messages in it, and it's a snap to work through it (load up the list, search through it, read a message, etc). And there's over a dozen folders with similarly huge numbers of mail in each of them. Trying to deal with a POP3 server with just a few hundred on it is painful, sometimes even just a few dozen, by comparison. So what does happen when a POP3 mail server isn't really compatible with the feature? Ordinarily messages are numbered as message 1 in the mailbox, message 2 in the mailbox, etc, as simply as that. You get sent a list of this each time, your mail client requests the numbers to be sent, the mail server deletes the ones it know it sent at the end of the mail run. If I delete message 4, then everything after it is renumbered. If it receives a new message and inserts it in the middle, rather than tack it on the end, all the other messages get renumbered. If the connection aborts part way through, most will not delete the messages you already downloaded. Suddenly, your mail program can't tell which messages are read, or which are which. You can try using UIDL options, if supported, where the lists note down the message-id headers instead of just message #1, #2, #3, etc. But they're not guaranteed to be unique, permanent, or even present. For instance, your message, that I'm replying to now, has this header > Message-ID: The mail server is still dealing with message #1, #2, #3, etc., but now your mail client also (potentially) has some unique ID numbers to try and figure out that yesterday's message #14 is today's message #5. You often find some important message gets left on the server and never downloaded. You're not even aware it exists. You may find that you have to fetch and delete all other messages to deal with it. You may find you can't fetch it, and can only delete it. Been there, done that, got the tee shirt. If you've never used IMAP, then the nearest equivalent experience to it is virtually every webmail interface (Hotmail, Yahoo mail, gmail, etc.). Many of them use IMAP, but even if they don't, they work in the same way: Mail is on the server, you have an interface to the lists of it, you fetch individual messages when you click on them, you temporarily cache them locally (quicker to reload the same message, but it's not permanently kept locally). Sometimes going from one message to another is quick, sometimes it's slow either because of networking issues or their server is inefficient. IMAP *can* be tedious, if every new message you read involves reconnecting to the server, negotiating that connection, checking for new messages, issuing fetch instructions, queuing every action one after another (i.e. half-baked software written by people who've not fully thought through how to do it properly, and don't care). But, it doesn't have to be. If they'd done things intelligently, keeping an active connection to the server during your session (only timing out after a long time), simultaneously handling new message additions to the lists, while you do what you do, sending commands in parallel. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.53.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jan 14 13:59:45 UTC 2022 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Li
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On 2022-02-13 8:03 p.m., Tim via users wrote: Tim: Thus far, Evolution is the least-worst one I've found on Linux. I used fetchmail for a lot of years. Then one of my upstream email servers switched to a modified and mostly-undocumented Yahoo connection mechanism, and I could not find the correct connection strings and ports to make it work, and was forced into either switching email clients or using a web browser as a substandard email client. Various web notes for connecting are now improved enough that I think I could move back to fetchmail if circumstances required it. I moved from fetchmail to Evolution, and initially thought it was brilliant. The only initial issues that I faced were in trying to configure undocumented connectivity to Rogers (altered Yahoo) and Google upstream mail services. Eventually, somebody published the correct incantations, like using SSMTP ports but not the protocol, and all was good for quite some time. However, the Evolution ivory tower released a couple of bad versions that corrupted their internal db and I lost a lot of mail as a result. IMHO, I have no idea why someone thought a db was a good idea in an email client, but maybe they came from a Microsoft background and email using the Jet db. Anyway, I was never able to correct the problem, as there are no recovery tools, the devs are uncommunicative, and I experienced very poor support from their user group. While I've done it very long ago, I have better things to develop than debugging what is supposed to be a well-designed client. Maybe I only work on well-designed code, since I think that the coding complexity of Evolution is a bunch of accidents waiting to happen. After about 2 years of fighting with an overly-complex mail client with internal corruption, I just gave up and switched to Thunderbird. My first happy surprise was when both current upstream providers were recognized and correctly configured. Then I got very busy after hours, as I could see about 10k of unread emails that Thunderbird had not fetched, presumably due to their broken db issues. After a week of reading and getting back to people that I should have, I got my fingers well programmed for Thunderbird. Luckily, if you use Firefox, then there is a lot of commonality in the UI. I've now been using Thunderbird for about 3 years on a dozen machines, and am still happy with it. Its now my go-to email client across multiple platforms, even (gasp!) Windows. Its heavyweight, but very capable. -- John Mellor ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On 13Feb2022 18:15, Ranjan Maitra wrote: >I am tempted to send your IPO soaring. What/how does your pop3 tool >work? It seems to have only 4 lines of code, but I have no idea what it >can do:-) "pip install cs.pop3". All the code's in there. https://pypi.org/project/cs.pop3/ https://hg.sr.ht/~cameron-simpson/css/browse/lib/python/cs/pop3.py?rev=tip The script is just a stub to call the module c0ommand line mode. >For the record, I use fetchmail on multiple accounts and then procmail. >Three cheers for local email! Aye. It is the correct path. For those liking IMAP, there are definitely tools to keep your IMAP in sync with a local set of folders, allowing local email and also IMAP access. Cheers, Cameron Simpson ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Sun, 2022-02-13 at 22:03 -0500, John Mellor wrote: > I used fetchmail for a lot of years. Then one of my upstream email > servers switched to a modified and mostly-undocumented Yahoo > connection mechanism, and I could not find the correct connection > strings and ports to make it work, and was forced into either > switching email clients or using a web browser as a substandard email > client. Various web notes for connecting are now improved enough > that I think I could move back to fetchmail if circumstances required > it. Every now and then someone "improves" their software so that you're forced to go through their crappy advertising-infested interface. I only keep using a Yahoo mail, because of spam. At that stage, they were the cause of most of it, so I figured their servers could receive most of it. Serve the buggers right. I went through a stage where they changed something and it took quite a bit of experimenting with what ports to use, which security protocol to use, how to login (username or full address), before I could receive send mail again. Around the same time it became important to send through the services own SMTP servers so they verified your mail for you as being real, so other servers would accept it. My hosted service recently (again) decided to tell us to stop logging into their mail services using its real address, and use our own domain names that it virtually serves. The trouble is, the security certificates are all in its name, so fetchmail complains of a security fault. I can override and download anyway, from *apparently* the wrong server, or not get my mail. That's *not* security, that's insecurity. I've tried Thunderbird over the years, but (like a web browser) it's overly convoluted for what it actually needs to do. Its mail editor has always been painful, I don't think much of its viewer either. Years ago, MANY years ago, I tried Opera on Windows 98SE. They decided to use a database for mail storage. That may have worked well for ordinary users who might have 100 emails (if they keep them), but it couldn't cope with the workload of people who participate in mailing lists (like this Fedora one). Since I use fetchmail to a local Dovecot server, mail is stored how I like it (maildir), and it doesn't matter what silliness the mail client uses, the mail client only caches things as it reads it, rather than store it. In my prior installation Dovecot used mailbox (one huge file per mail folder), that was diabolically slow once one got moderately big. When I replaced the server I put the effort into figuring out how to make it use maildir, that was a massive speed improvement. Things work in a flash, now. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.53.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jan 14 13:59:45 UTC 2022 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Sun, 2022-02-13 at 12:58 -0600, c. marlow wrote: > > > Thus far, Evolution is the least-worst one I've found on Linux.<< > > You must of never had to use the Evolution mail group before.. > They're > quite rude over there. Basically, they give you the nice " GO RTFM" > for > replies, even though you tried Googling your issue. > > " Go to HELP > AND " and read the help guide." > > I use to really love Evolution until that started happening. I'm one of the moderators of the Evolution list. Pointing out that an issue is addressed in the Help is not rude, and anything not dealt with that way is typically answered by many of the very helpful contributors, one of whom is the principal maintainer of Evolution. poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Mon, 2022-02-14 at 11:33 +1030, Tim via users wrote: > Manual, what manual? Ha! I just pressed F1 for help, it opened my > web > browser to: https://help.gnome.org/users/evolution/3.28 > Giving me: > > Not Found > The requested URL /users/evolution/3.28 was not found on this > server. Recall that Evolution is available on multiple distros and that the Evo list is not restricted to Fedora. The Help docs are often in a separate package. For Fedora, it's "evolution-help". poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Sun, 2022-02-13 at 22:03 -0500, John Mellor wrote: > I moved from fetchmail to Evolution, and initially thought it was > brilliant. The only initial issues that I faced were in trying to > configure undocumented connectivity to Rogers (altered Yahoo) and > Google > upstream mail services. Eventually, somebody published the correct > incantations, like using SSMTP ports but not the protocol, and all > was > good for quite some time. However, the Evolution ivory tower > released a > couple of bad versions that corrupted their internal db and I lost a > lot > of mail as a result. IMHO, I have no idea why someone thought a db > was > a good idea in an email client, but maybe they came from a Microsoft > background and email using the Jet db. Anyway, I was never able to > correct the problem, as there are no recovery tools, the devs are > uncommunicative, and I experienced very poor support from their user > group. While I've done it very long ago, I have better things to > develop than debugging what is supposed to be a well-designed > client. > Maybe I only work on well-designed code, since I think that the > coding > complexity of Evolution is a bunch of accidents waiting to happen. I'm sorry you had that experience, but I have to assume that this happened quite some time ago. The current maintainer is in fact extremely communicative and anxious to resolve problems. I agree that the code base of Evolution is large, at least in part because it's not just a mail client, and that even as an MUA it has to deal with Exchange (it's the go-to MUA for Exchange users on Linux). Personally, I only ever use IMAP and don't particularly care about the non-mail aspects, so it works for me. poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Mon, 2022-02-14 at 08:34 +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote: > POP3's not great for that - there's only one serverside mail folder, > not > much state (I think you can mark things as read maybe - or maybe that > too is client side). _If_ you're keeping your email server side, IMAP > is > a better choice. AFAIK POP servers don't keep any per-message state, nor can you download messages selectively, nor indeed download only the headers as you can with IMAP. poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
Hello John, On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 15:40:16 -0500 John Mellor wrote: > On 2022-02-13 2:09 p.m., c. marlow wrote: > > On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 22:54:16 +0100 > > wwp wrote: > > > >> Moreover, using IMAP will make > >> you dependent of remote resource and you must be online, the use of > >> IMAP accounts generate much more network traffic, that's a problem to > >> me. I also experienced very slow or unreliable IMAP servers > >> (orange.fr, the worst one ever?) and when it's slow or not reliable, > >> having to push everything online (drafts, sent and their copy to Sent > >> emails, ..) is just a pain in the *ss. > > About the network point you made: > > > > I am on a satellite dish connection and we only get so much data a month > > and then when we run out, we're lowered to 1 to 3 megs until our reset > > day. > > > > But, a lot of people on the internet has told me that IMAP doesn't use a > > lot of data. I don't believe it though. > > That's actually a good reason to use IMAP instead, as the normal behaviour is > to download the headers and not the bodies. You only download the bodies on > mails that you read, so unless you don't get any spam or if you actually read > every single message that you get, your bandwidth usage will normally > appreciably be lower with IMAP. You make assumptions here that follow your use, and it's not at all mine - I do read (thus, download) - read or filter by body contents - nearly all emails I receive, and I receive a lot of spam that is also filtered on client-side. Of course, you were definitely right by explaining there are different kinds of email uses. The OP would have to evaluate his own uses and see if IMAP fits better them. Also, writing/sending at lot of emails, using drafts, will increase your network consumption, but that, also, depends on your own uses. A slow network user will be sensitive to that. Regards, -- wwp https://useplaintext.email/ pgpva3CjFDBd3.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Mon, 2022-02-14 at 13:03 +0100, wwp wrote: > > That's actually a good reason to use IMAP instead, as the normal > > behaviour is to download the headers and not the bodies. You only > > download the bodies on mails that you read, so unless you don't get > > any spam or if you actually read every single message that you get, > > your bandwidth usage will normally appreciably be lower with IMAP. > > You make assumptions here that follow your use, and it's not at all > mine - I do read (thus, download) - read or filter by body contents - > nearly all emails I receive, and I receive a lot of spam that is > also filtered on client-side. I do all my spam filtering server-side, though that would apply both to POP and IMAP. [...] > Also, writing/sending at lot of emails, using drafts, will increase > your network consumption, but that, also, depends on your own uses. A > slow network user will be sensitive to that. Most IMAP MUAs allow you to specify a local folder for drafts, if that's a concern. poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 15:00:20 +1100 Cameron Simpson wrote: > For those liking IMAP, there are definitely tools to keep your IMAP > in sync with a local set of folders, allowing local email and also > IMAP access. > I am a Linux N00B. I would love to know how to keep a copy of emails locally. My Claws-Mail MH offline storage folders ( back when I was a POP user) currently stands at 720.3 Megs going all the way back to 2016! Chris ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 15:40:16 -0500 John Mellor wrote: > That's actually a good reason to use IMAP instead, as the normal > behaviour is to download the headers and not the bodies. You only > download the bodies on mails that you read, so unless you don't get > any spam or if you actually read every single message that you get, > your bandwidth usage will normally appreciably be lower with IMAP. > > -- > > John Mellor Interesting! I never would of thought of that! Chris ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On 2/11/22 13:15, fed...@cwm030.com wrote: Hi Ya'll, > > I know that there are, to me, seems like A LOT of email clients for > the linux world. > > And It's getting harder and harder for me to hop around and try new > email clients out when they come out being a..GET READY TO > CRINGE. POP3 user. > > Last week I tried TDE ( Trinity Desktop ) on Debian. and decided to > give KMAIL a try... Big mistake... Importing my email into KMAIL > caused the emails names to be changed from numbers ( because I used > Claws before) to this weird string of letters and numbers. Therefore, > I could not import my email back to CLAWS since I gave up and > returned to Fedora and Gnome 3. > > I plan on staying with Fedora and Gnome 3. > > I thought about making the change to IMAP, but old habits die hard. I > find myself when I set up or try a new email client, I wind up > setting it up as POP3... > > So I am just curious if there is any POP users still out there > > And what are some pros and cons switching to IMAP? > > And what program do you use on Fedora for your email? Chris, as one of the contributors to IMAP, it still took me years to make the jump and I am glad I did. IMAP is just more functional than POP ever was with better security features; though Peter Resnick of Qualcomm would regal us with stories of maintaining Eudora for their CEO for years after there were other better choices, but he started on Eudora, and it was Qualcomm's product and he was going to keep using it... Worked for me! I switched all those years ago from Eudora to Thunderbird, still POP. There was a nice utility to convert Eudora mail folders to that used by Thunderbird. In fact just last year an old friend was FINALLY getting of Eudora and asked if anyone knew how, so I dug the program out of my archives for him. Over all these years I have been using Thunderbird with all its warts. But then really they all have warts. Oh and just updated my wife from Thunderbird on XP to Thunderbird on Win10, and she is complaining on how things are different... ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 10:43:07 -0500 Robert Moskowitz wrote: > IMAP is just more functional than POP ever was with better security > features; though Peter Resnick of Qualcomm would regal us with > stories of maintaining Eudora for their CEO for years after there > were other better choices, but he started on Eudora, and it was > Qualcomm's product and he was going to keep using it... Worked for > me! I noticed that IMAP is SLOWW because Claws checks every folder for new mail, when my email is only filtered when I launch Claws. I did find a way to right click on a folder and go to properties and uncheck " CHECK FOR MAIL"... So basically Claws skips over checking that folder for new mail. > I switched all those years ago from Eudora to Thunderbird, still POP. > There was a nice utility to convert Eudora mail folders to that used > by Thunderbird. In fact just last year an old friend was FINALLY > getting of Eudora and asked if anyone knew how, so I dug the program > out of my archives for him. > > Over all these years I have been using Thunderbird with all its > warts. But then really they all have warts. > I don't think that I could use TB... I like the MH file format, less chance of corruption. > Oh and just updated my wife from Thunderbird on XP to Thunderbird on > Win10, and she is complaining on how things are different... > Good lordYour wife was still using Windows XP and had XP hooked up to the internet? Chris ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On 2/14/22 11:01, c. marlow wrote: On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 10:43:07 -0500 Robert Moskowitz wrote: IMAP is just more functional than POP ever was with better security features; though Peter Resnick of Qualcomm would regal us with stories of maintaining Eudora for their CEO for years after there were other better choices, but he started on Eudora, and it was Qualcomm's product and he was going to keep using it... Worked for me! I noticed that IMAP is SLOWW because Claws checks every folder for new mail, when my email is only filtered when I launch Claws. I did find a way to right click on a folder and go to properties and uncheck " CHECK FOR MAIL"... So basically Claws skips over checking that folder for new mail. I only check my inbox for new mail. I don't use any sieves or other tools to move incoming mail to specific folders, and I leave that to Thunderbird. Actually I have no special folders on the server. All filtered mail is moved to local folders. I switched all those years ago from Eudora to Thunderbird, still POP. There was a nice utility to convert Eudora mail folders to that used by Thunderbird. In fact just last year an old friend was FINALLY getting of Eudora and asked if anyone knew how, so I dug the program out of my archives for him. Over all these years I have been using Thunderbird with all its warts. But then really they all have warts. I don't think that I could use TB... I like the MH file format, less chance of corruption. Only corruptions I have had for years has been in the index. These are easily rebuilt when they go bad. Oh and just updated my wife from Thunderbird on XP to Thunderbird on Win10, and she is complaining on how things are different... Good lordYour wife was still using Windows XP and had XP hooked up to the internet? And what it took to get some of her apps working! But she was never really "connected". She is behind 2 firewalls and only opens graphics and other attachments from known sources, and then Comodo filtered for checking content. For her limited web access, she is behind a proxy firewall and really does very little online. Just not her interest/style; I do almost all the family online shopping from my Fedora system. Actually it was the need to get a newer Firefox to run embedded code from some banking sites that finally forced the hand for her to be willing to update! She is complaining about loosing the XP Search app. It is her go-to tool to find whatever doc she needs to work on. File Manager search is just strange. "Why do I have to put asterisks in my search string. I never had to do that before!" And don't get me started on the Windows 10 default picture program(s). I am going to have to search around and see if I can get something worth her time to use. I spent over an hour Sunday, getting a bunch of pics printed as she wanted them; got to be a better tool than what M$ supplies (I use gthumb for most of my pic printing). And what it took me to turn off all the M$ ad stuff all over the desktop. "We own you..." Of course turning off Firefox and google ad stuff, even with Adblock Plus was a pain. At least Office 2003 installed OK. ;) But Noteworthy Composer setup just would not run. It is a Win98 (or was that Win95?) app that is her main use app for her tutoring. Finally I worked out I could just copy the whole program folder for the XP system over to the Win10 system and it works. Whew! She never wanted to learn the new version's methods even when we moved to XP! "Works well enough for me." ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 11:48:47 -0500 Robert Moskowitz wrote: > I only check my inbox for new mail. I don't use any sieves or other > tools to move incoming mail to specific folders, and I leave that to > Thunderbird. Actually I have no special folders on the server. All > filtered mail is moved to local folders. I tried that and it seemed like Claws wasn't moving everything to the local folders.. But, I think that was my mistake though.. I used the MOVE command instead of COPY command. So I wound up changing my filters to IF: ALL MAIL to DOMAIN ACCOUNT COPY TO >> ChristophersMail ( That's my local MH folders ) > >> I switched all those years ago from Eudora to Thunderbird, still > >> POP. There was a nice utility to convert Eudora mail folders to > >> that used by Thunderbird. In fact just last year an old friend > >> was FINALLY getting of Eudora and asked if anyone knew how, so I > >> dug the program out of my archives for him. Actually, if in the previous paragraph you said you don't have any special folders on the mail server, but your emails are moved to the local folders, that basically means you have your account set up as IMAP and then a rule set up to copy or move the emails from the IMAP server to LOCAL FOLDERS? Right? > Only corruptions I have had for years has been in the index. These > are easily rebuilt when they go bad. Ohh... I've had TB lose my email 2 or 3 times... I don't trust TB... But that was after a nuke and pave and restoring my email back in /home. Chris ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Mon, 2022-02-14 at 08:02 -0600, c. marlow wrote: > On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 15:00:20 +1100 > Cameron Simpson wrote: > > > For those liking IMAP, there are definitely tools to keep your IMAP > > in sync with a local set of folders, allowing local email and also > > IMAP access. > > > > I am a Linux N00B. > > I would love to know how to keep a copy of emails locally. > > My Claws-Mail MH offline storage folders ( back when I was a POP > user) > currently stands at 720.3 Megs going all the way back to 2016! On Evolution, this is a per-folder setting. You right-click on the folder and select "Copy folder content locally for offline access". There's also a separate per-account setting: "Synchronize remote mail locally for all folders". poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Mon, 2022-02-14 at 10:01 -0600, c. marlow wrote: > I noticed that IMAP is SLOWW because > Claws > checks every folder for new mail, when my email is only filtered when > I launch Claws. Checking every folder not a property of IMAP but of how you choose to access it. poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On 2/14/22 11:59, c. marlow wrote: On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 11:48:47 -0500 Robert Moskowitz wrote: I only check my inbox for new mail. I don't use any sieves or other tools to move incoming mail to specific folders, and I leave that to Thunderbird. Actually I have no special folders on the server. All filtered mail is moved to local folders. I tried that and it seemed like Claws wasn't moving everything to the local folders.. But, I think that was my mistake though.. I used the MOVE command instead of COPY command. ALL my filter rules use move, rarely copy. So I wound up changing my filters to IF: ALL MAIL to DOMAIN ACCOUNT COPY TO >> ChristophersMail ( That's my local MH folders ) I switched all those years ago from Eudora to Thunderbird, still POP. There was a nice utility to convert Eudora mail folders to that used by Thunderbird. In fact just last year an old friend was FINALLY getting of Eudora and asked if anyone knew how, so I dug the program out of my archives for him. Actually, if in the previous paragraph you said you don't have any special folders on the mail server, but your emails are moved to the local folders, that basically means you have your account set up as IMAP and then a rule set up to copy or move the emails from the IMAP server to LOCAL FOLDERS? Right? Yes. I rather like having them local. Works nicely when I would be flying and needed my mail. I suppose I could have kept everything both on the server and local server copy, but then I only use the one notebook. I rarely need to access mail from another system. Then I use Roundcube on my server and only have inbox and sent. Only corruptions I have had for years has been in the index. These are easily rebuilt when they go bad. Ohh... I've had TB lose my email 2 or 3 times... I don't trust TB... But that was after a nuke and pave and restoring my email back in /home. So far has not happened and I try that it doesn't! And been using TB since back before Fedora, when I ran Centos on my notebook... ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 17:32:30 + Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > On Mon, 2022-02-14 at 10:01 -0600, c. marlow wrote: > > I noticed that IMAP is SLOWW because > > Claws > > checks every folder for new mail, when my email is only filtered > > when I launch Claws. > > Checking every folder not a property of IMAP but of how you choose to > access it. > > poc No lie... Claws does go down the line and checks every folder when you set the account up. Chris ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
Well.. I am reaping what I sew... I am starting to regret the change to IMAP. I just told Claws to move two emails from my cell phone company to another folder / label whatever you want to call it.. And the emails are not in that folder. I even went online to gmail.com and did a search for 2 words that were in the subject line.. POOF...GONE No where to be found. Chris ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Mon Feb14'22 01:10:27PM, c. marlow wrote: > From: "c. marlow" > Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2022 13:10:27 -0600 > To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org > Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users > Subject: Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management > > Well.. I am reaping what I sew... > > I am starting to regret the change to IMAP. > > I just told Claws to move two emails from my cell phone company to > another folder / label whatever you want to call it.. And the emails > are not in that folder. > > I even went online to gmail.com and did a search for 2 words that were > in the subject line.. POOF...GONE No where to be found. I had similar issues with IMAP (for 2-3 hours) when I tried to move to IMAP on a whim, and then, discretion being the better part of valor, moved right back to POP3. I am pretty certain that I was not using IMAP correctly, but decided to stick to POP3 because it served my needs. I leave e-mail on the server because I pull it from several places, and then I use rsync between the machines to keep all my local mails in sync. Serves my needs well and I am pretty happy about it. Best wishes, Ranjan ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
Hi Chris, On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 10:01:31 -0600 "c. marlow" wrote: > On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 10:43:07 -0500 > Robert Moskowitz wrote: > > > > IMAP is just more functional than POP ever was with better security > > features; though Peter Resnick of Qualcomm would regal us with > > stories of maintaining Eudora for their CEO for years after there > > were other better choices, but he started on Eudora, and it was > > Qualcomm's product and he was going to keep using it... Worked for > > me! > > > I noticed that IMAP is SLOWW because Claws > checks every folder for new mail, when my email is only filtered when > I launch Claws. If you find CM slow here, don't try TB! ;-) [snip] > > I switched all those years ago from Eudora to Thunderbird, still POP. > > There was a nice utility to convert Eudora mail folders to that used > > by Thunderbird. In fact just last year an old friend was FINALLY > > getting of Eudora and asked if anyone knew how, so I dug the program > > out of my archives for him. > > > > Over all these years I have been using Thunderbird with all its > > warts. But then really they all have warts. > > > > I don't think that I could use TB... I like the MH file format, less > chance of corruption. [snip] TB has support for the MH file format. This has to be tuned when you create the account. Search the web! Regards, -- wwp https://useplaintext.email/ pgpHQB5itbtet.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 20:32:58 +0100 wwp wrote: > If you find CM slow here, don't try TB! ;-) > > > [snip] It's not Claws thats slow, its IMAP. > TB has support for the MH file format. This has to be tuned when you > create the account. Search the web! And is still currently considered in development and are advised to NOT use that format for right now in TB unless you know how to fix problems that come up while using the MH format in TB. Chris ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 13:21:37 -0600 Ranjan Maitra wrote: > I had similar issues with IMAP (for 2-3 hours) when I tried to move > to IMAP on a whim, and then, discretion being the better part of > valor, moved right back to POP3. > > I am pretty certain that I was not using IMAP correctly, but decided > to stick to POP3 because it served my needs. I leave e-mail on the > server because I pull it from several places, and then I use rsync > between the machines to keep all my local mails in sync. Serves my > needs well and I am pretty happy about it. It's tempting!!! Chris ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Fri, Feb 11, 2022, at 1:15 PM, fed...@cwm030.com wrote: > And It's getting harder and harder for me to hop around and try new > email clients out when they come out being a..GET READY TO > CRINGE. POP3 user. AHH CRINGE... haha. > > I thought about making the change to IMAP, but old habits die hard. I > find myself when I set up or try a new email client, I wind up setting > it up as POP3... > > So I am just curious if there is any POP users still out there Haha, haha, nope. Switched away years ago... never looked back. > > And what are some pros and cons switching to IMAP? For me, I switched operating systems and user interfaces all the time, and I really want everything email-wise to be in sync no matter what I'm using because I work primarily by email. Especially now that I use Fastmail, which uses JMAP on its webmail, I need something that's got some level of compatibility with that. I'm basically just trying to cut down on extra work. If you're used to POP3 or only access your email on that device, or on one platform, go for it. It's just not my cup of tea personally. > > And what program do you use on Fedora for your email? When I use Fedora, I generally run Thunderbird with flowed text turned off, wrapped text set to 0, and signature separator (--) suppressed) Slade ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
Tim: >> Manual, what manual? Ha! I just pressed F1 for help, it opened my >> web browser to: https://help.gnome.org/users/evolution/3.28 >> Giving me: >> >> Not Found >> The requested URL /users/evolution/3.28 was not found on this >> server. Patrick O'Callaghan: > Recall that Evolution is available on multiple distros and that the > Evo list is not restricted to Fedora. The Help docs are often in a > separate package. For Fedora, it's "evolution-help". That may be, but *it* tried to access its own manual over the internet and got that response. Sure, I can knock 3.28 of the end of the URI and find a manual, but what I find is still little more than a power point presentation kind of thing, not an actual explanatory manual. And if I install the Help package, I get the same useless thing in a Gnome help window. We'd never be able to use Apache if their manual was as useless as Evolution's (likewise for many other software). -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.53.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jan 14 13:59:45 UTC 2022 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Mon, 2022-02-14 at 14:26 -0600, c. marlow wrote: > It's not Claws thats slow, its IMAP. Well, to be fair, it's not IMAP, but: Your network, their network, their mail server, how you use your mail client, and how their server and your client uses IMAP. It can be done efficiently, but some programmers don't even attempt it. On an inefficient system (overall) it's not going to be nice. Using POP3 *hides* that, by dragging all your mail in locally. As far as I'm concerned, after some 25+ years of doing email, if you want *local* storage, speed, and efficiency; and you don't want pain when keeping mail long term across installation of new releases and software; you need to run your own email server, drag your mail into it with some tool that periodically fetches your mail, and read your mail from your own server. And, in my opinion, mail servers are much better at handling local mail storage than mail clients are. Likewise for filtering. On my system: Fetchmail drags in my mail, from all my services, every 9 minutes. And this is easier to configure for all the different mail servers than doing so in a mail client (and doing it again after updates and new installs). It also drags in mails for other users at 11 minutes and 13 minutes, deliberately using different intervals. Dovecot (mail server) stores my mail locally. Dovecot uses mailsieve to filter *some* of my mail (I'm doing an experiment about what's most convenient). e.g. Fedora mailing list gets filtered into a Fedora mailing list folder, likewise for some other mailing lists. But low-volume things stay in my inbox. Evolution is my mail client, using IMAP to access my mail server. I don't have it set up to romp through all my folders when I start the program, I don't have it synchronising, I don't have it filtering my mail (it's always been painfully slow at that), I don't have it checking for new mail all the time. I do set the message lists to only display the last 5 days mail (older mail is there, but hidden out of the way until I need to hunt something down). When I go to read mail, I look in my inbox, it takes only a few seconds to see that I've some new email to me, maybe a couple of spams a week (so I manually delete them, and don't have to manually check on a spam folder for false positives). Some of that mail I want to keep for later I'll manually drag over to another folder. Some of it I want to keep I'll semi-automatically file into other folders - I select all mail listed in the inbox, or just the ones I've wanted to do something with, and manually run the filter on it that will move read messages from certain places. This way unread messages don't suddenly disappear on me. e.g. I see my bills waiting in my inbox until I deal with them, then *after* they're read they can get filed away for record keeping. Then I'll check on the already filtered mail. I'll pop over to the Fedora mailing list folder. It's showing the last 5 days of received mail, hiding the rest. The list of mail shows up in a snap. I'll look through the unread messages to see what interests me. If I'm idle and bored I'll read all the unread messages. Then I'll do the same for some other mailing lists. It's all organised and quick for me to do. As I step through any folders, I always see whatever's the lastest collection of mail. If I want to check for new mail while in the middle of a long reading session I can do that manually. It's less annoying that suddenly having your list of messages re-arranged on you while you're in the middle of reading them. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.53.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jan 14 13:59:45 UTC 2022 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Tue, 2022-02-15 at 17:58 +1030, Tim via users wrote: > Tim: > > > Manual, what manual? Ha! I just pressed F1 for help, it opened > > > my > > > web browser to: https://help.gnome.org/users/evolution/3.28 > > > Giving me: > > > > > > Not Found > > > The requested URL /users/evolution/3.28 was not found on this > > > server. > > Patrick O'Callaghan: > > Recall that Evolution is available on multiple distros and that the > > Evo list is not restricted to Fedora. The Help docs are often in a > > separate package. For Fedora, it's "evolution-help". > > > That may be, but *it* tried to access its own manual over the > internet > and got that response. Sure, I can knock 3.28 of the end of the URI > and find a manual, but what I find is still little more than a power > point presentation kind of thing, not an actual explanatory manual. > And if I install the Help package, I get the same useless thing in a > Gnome help window. > > We'd never be able to use Apache if their manual was as useless as > Evolution's (likewise for many other software). I can't answer that, except to say that the current version of Evolution is 3.42 and you seem to be using 3.28. That's roughly 7 years out of date. In the interim the root website has changed: https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Evolution/ poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Tue, 2022-02-15 at 12:36 +, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > I can't answer that, except to say that the current version of > Evolution is 3.42 and you seem to be using 3.28. That's roughly 7 > years out of date. In the interim the root website has changed: Only because *this* PC is using CentOS 7, another one has Fedora. I don't think it should be *that* far out of date, but it is CentOS 7's current version. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.53.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jan 14 13:59:45 UTC 2022 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 18:39:38 +1030 Tim via users wrote: > As I step through any folders, I always see whatever's the lastest > collection of mail. If I want to check for new mail while in the > middle of a long reading session I can do that manually. It's less > annoying that suddenly having your list of messages re-arranged on you > while you're in the middle of reading them. > YESS!!! Me too... I have to click the " GET MAIL" button to download new email when * I AM * ready to read new messages.. Being ADHD, lol, that lets me pay attention to what I am reading at the moment instead of being in the middle of reading and then be like "OH LOOK NEW MESSAGES!" and then lose my place in what I was just reading and have to start all over :(. Chris ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
> On 15 Feb 2022, at 14:26, Tim via users wrote: > > On Tue, 2022-02-15 at 12:36 +, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: >> I can't answer that, except to say that the current version of >> Evolution is 3.42 and you seem to be using 3.28. That's roughly 7 >> years out of date. In the interim the root website has changed: > > Only because *this* PC is using CentOS 7, another one has Fedora. I > don't think it should be *that* far out of date, but it is CentOS 7's > current version. Centos 7 is frozen to versions of packages from about 7 or 8 years ago. The whole point of centos is to support old versions of software for the long term. It’s not my choice for desktop os because the apps are so old and hard to get help with. Barry > > -- > > uname -rsvp > Linux 3.10.0-1160.53.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jan 14 13:59:45 UTC 2022 x86_64 > > Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. > I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list. > > ___ > users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Wed, 2022-02-16 at 00:55 +1030, Tim via users wrote: > On Tue, 2022-02-15 at 12:36 +, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > I can't answer that, except to say that the current version of > > Evolution is 3.42 and you seem to be using 3.28. That's roughly 7 > > years out of date. In the interim the root website has changed: > > Only because *this* PC is using CentOS 7, another one has Fedora. I > don't think it should be *that* far out of date, but it is CentOS 7's > current version. It *is* that far out of date. You have the option of installing a Flatpak version (assuming this works on Centos) which would be up to date but may have other issues as it basically runs in a sandbox and has only limited communication with the rest of the desktop. poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 17:12:45 + Barry wrote: > Centos 7 is frozen to versions of packages from about 7 or 8 years > ago. The whole point of centos is to support old versions of software > for the long term. It’s not my choice for desktop os because the apps > are so old and hard to get help with. So basically CenTOS is another version of "Debian" basically? Debian sticks with "older" software. Chris ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On 2/15/22 12:12, Barry wrote: On 15 Feb 2022, at 14:26, Tim via users wrote: On Tue, 2022-02-15 at 12:36 +, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: I can't answer that, except to say that the current version of Evolution is 3.42 and you seem to be using 3.28. That's roughly 7 years out of date. In the interim the root website has changed: Only because *this* PC is using CentOS 7, another one has Fedora. I don't think it should be *that* far out of date, but it is CentOS 7's current version. Centos 7 is frozen to versions of packages from about 7 or 8 years ago. The whole point of centos is to support old versions of software for the long term. It’s not my choice for desktop os because the apps are so old and hard to get help with. I ran CentOS on my notebook until Fedora 6; that is when I made the switch even with the semi-annual ver upgrade approach. It was always behind, for good reasons on apps. Now I typically only do annual Fedora upgrades; when the ver I am using EOLs. Thus I tend to be current and avoid, for the most part old stuff. Though new stuff does not always work (can't figure out why VLC hard hangs my system with some videos). In all seriousness, there has to be a good hardware reason to run CentOS on a notebook. Barry -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.53.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jan 14 13:59:45 UTC 2022 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On 15Feb2022 17:12, Barry Scott wrote: >Centos 7 is frozen to versions of packages from about 7 or 8 years ago. >The whole point of centos is to support old versions of software for the long >term. >It’s not my choice for desktop os because the apps are so old and hard >to get help with. CentOS and RedHat release stick with the version which came out with their release (7.0, 7.1 etc). That gets you stabilty, often wanted on production systems. Security fixes (and some bugfixes) get backported by RedHat. You only get new package versions (versus new builds of the stable versions) when you upgrade releases. Stability is the release objective for these distros. Fedora, OTOH, is fast moving. Cheers, Cameron Simpson ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
Tim: >> Only because *this* PC is using CentOS 7, another one has Fedora. I >> don't think it should be *that* far out of date, but it is CentOS >> 7's current version. Patrick O'Callaghan: > It *is* that far out of date. > > You have the option of installing a Flatpak version (assuming this > works on Centos) which would be up to date but may have other issues > as it basically runs in a sandbox and has only limited communication > with the rest of the desktop. > This PC is the main file/mail/web-server, etc., so it runs something I don't have to update twice a year, even once a year would be seriously annoying. Yes, I know you shouldn't work on your server, but it's a small LAN, and I don't want to install yet another a computer. I'm surprised that client software is kept so old, on purpose, it really should only have itself to depend on, I can only imagine that newer versions can't handle older system libraries. Server software, I fully understand. Other things do stay far more current, Firefox, for instance. I won't go down the headaches of flatpaks and their ilk. I've already got the pain of dealing with an appimage of MuseScore (can't print, isn't updated with all the other software with "yum update", can't be updated because newer versions won't run on CentOS 7, etc). I don't fancy having to manually look after more software, and I don't see this version of Evolution missing any functionality, at this time. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.53.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jan 14 13:59:45 UTC 2022 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Tue, 2022-02-15 at 12:21 -0600, c. marlow wrote: > So basically CenTOS is another version of "Debian" basically? Debian > sticks with "older" software. No, it's a recompilation of Red Hat, RHEL. But, yes, it was a long-term install. Various distros had long-life versions as well as short-term ones. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.53.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jan 14 13:59:45 UTC 2022 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Wed, 2022-02-16 at 19:18 +1030, Tim via users wrote: > I'm surprised that client software is kept so old, on purpose, it > really should only have itself to depend on, I can only imagine that > newer versions can't handle older system libraries. Server software, > I fully understand. Other things do stay far more current, Firefox, > for instance. Evolution is a component of Gnome, so I'm assuming that your Gnome desktop on that Centos system will be similarly out of date. If not, there's something weird going on. AFAIK it is possible to install Evo with a different library root by building it yourself, but that's a non-trivial process. poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 at 14:21, c. marlow wrote: > On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 17:12:45 + > Barry wrote: > > > Centos 7 is frozen to versions of packages from about 7 or 8 years > > ago. The whole point of centos is to support old versions of software > > for the long term. It’s not my choice for desktop os because the apps > > are so old and hard to get help with. > > > So basically CenTOS is another version of "Debian" basically? Debian > sticks with "older" software. Debian has stable and unstable releases. I use Debian unstable and Fedora to check for issues in "mission critical" apps to help ensure they get noticed and fixed before wide adoption. The majority of installations use Ubuntu LTS releases which generally track Debian stable releases. Large organizations often expect new systems to need startup work, but then expect them to run with patch updates for 5 years (plus 2 years it takes to do "new business cases, new threat/risk assessments, purchase, and commissioning"). This means there are still "mission critical" systems running RHEL/CentOS 7 and Ubuntu 16.04 LTS. -- George N. White III ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 19:18:35 +1030 Tim via users wrote: > This PC is the main file/mail/web-server, etc., so it runs something I > don't have to update twice a year, even once a year would be seriously > annoying. Yes, I know you shouldn't work on your server, but it's a > small LAN, and I don't want to install yet another a computer. If I understood this correctly, You don't run " sudo dnf update" but twice a year? :O I run my " sudo dnf update" every Sunday. Chris ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
Tim: >> This PC is the main file/mail/web-server, etc., so it runs >> something I don't have to update twice a year, even once a >> year would be seriously annoying. Yes, I know you shouldn't >> work on your server, but it's a small LAN, and I don't want to >> install yet another a computer. Chris. > If I understood this correctly, You don't run " sudo dnf update" but > twice a year? :O > > I run my " sudo dnf update" every Sunday. Sorry, it was not a very clear description by me. I meant a whole system update, like going from Fedora 34 to Fedora 35. I do yum or dnf updates every few days. It has to be a moment when I've got time to deal with any potential problems it causes. It's rare, but sometimes a software update bolixes something up. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.53.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jan 14 13:59:45 UTC 2022 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 13:00:15 -0500 Robert Moskowitz wrote: > > ALL my filter rules use move, rarely copy. I just got done changing hosting companies from InterServer to HostGator, due to I.S. not sending me all of the emails from the lists that I am on. Like for instance.. I would see SO AND SO REPLIED TO : But I wouldn't get the original starter email from xxx. But anyways, I have the same set up like you right now.. Except I manually move my email off of each account. I am just afraid that using a MOVE command filter could cause some emails to come up missing or something like that. I will have to test that out and let you know. Chris ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Thu, 2022-02-17 at 12:05 -0600, c. marlow wrote: > I am just afraid that using a MOVE command filter could cause some > emails to come up missing or something like that. There's always this approach: Download all mails to a mail spool file. Input that file into your new mail system. After all is done, delete the spool. There are tools for migrating mail. Some mail clients even have them built in. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.53.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jan 14 13:59:45 UTC 2022 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
So I've set my email up as IMAP... I've got kind of a special set up. Call me frugal.. Lol I set up CPANEL to forward my email to a brand new gmail address that I made. Only because I kinda like the whole gmail " label " system now. HostGator offers Google Workspaces but I don't want to have to move 5 accounts to the new GW accounts and plus, just using HostGator's default email service, I get unlimited accounts vs having to pay for each one with GW. But then I started thinking this morning, WHY did I move to IMAP? I only check my email on my computer. I had the new account set up on my phone, but it got annoying to change accounts every time I open the gmail app from the free account that i've had since 2015 and don't use for anything to the new account for my domain. So I wound up removing the new account off of my phone. But then again.. My MH folders are getting ridiculously large... 845.8 MB and that is taking up A LOT of my 20 gig storage with NextCloud since I back up my MH folders nightly. Chris ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Sat, 2022-02-19 at 09:45 -0600, c. marlow wrote: > HostGator offers Google Workspaces but I don't want to have to move > 5 accounts to the new GW accounts and plus, just using HostGator's > default email service, I get unlimited accounts vs having to pay for > each one with GW. > > But then I started thinking this morning, WHY did I move to IMAP? I > only check my email on my computer. I had the new account set up on > my phone, but it got annoying to change accounts every time I open > the gmail app from the free account that i've had since 2015 and > don't use for anything to the new account for my domain. So I wound > up removing the new account off of my phone. You could probably consolidate your gmail accounts (if you wanted to), or at least pull mail from one to the other (again if you wanted to). Over the years I've accumulated a few email accounts, but long ago realised various problems with that: Choosing which address to tell to someone to contact me via, using email clients which didn't automatically reply using the same account details that the message came from, dealing with losing accounts I didn't want to lose (closing ISPs, etc), and the more accounts the more spam you receive. Of course there's arguments for the opposite: Erroneous spam detection can ruin an account. Services having technical gremlins don't stop you sending from a different account. It's useful to have different business and personal accounts, if you want to be able to dispose of a business, or have a business partner check business mail for you. It can be useful to have a mailing list account with filtering that ignores anything that didn't come from the mailing list (that's the one anti-spam technique I still trust to use). IMAP does let your mail get properly flagged as read, replied to, etc, even if you do only use it in one device. Remembering that /that/ one device may go through several software updates over time, so local handling of that kind of thing can get royally stuffed up. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.53.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jan 14 13:59:45 UTC 2022 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 20:24:27 +1030 Tim via users wrote: > > IMAP does let your mail get properly flagged as read, replied to, etc, > even if you do only use it in one device. Remembering that /that/ one > device may go through several software updates over time, so local > handling of that kind of thing can get royally stuffed up. > Well, to keep that from happening, I do, do nightly backups of my "CLAWS" folder in /home/chris just to be safe. So, I am guessing that you're saying that IMAP is better even though its very painfully slow on my connection? Chris ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 20:24:27 +1030 Tim via users wrote: I forgot to answer the other parts of your email.. OOPS! > You could probably consolidate your gmail accounts (if you wanted to), > or at least pull mail from one to the other (again if you wanted to). using Gmail's fetch setting under webmail settings? > > Over the years I've accumulated a few email accounts, but long ago > realised various problems with that: Choosing which address to tell > to someone to contact me via, using email clients which didn't > automatically reply using the same account details that the message > came from, dealing with losing accounts I didn't want to lose (closing > ISPs, etc), and the more accounts the more spam you receive. Yesss, I use to have that problem too! I've weeded out quite a few addresses over the last year, of accounts that I wasn't using anymore Chris ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Sun, 2022-02-20 at 08:28 -0600, c. marlow wrote: > On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 20:24:27 +1030 > Tim via users wrote: > > > > IMAP does let your mail get properly flagged as read, replied to, > > etc, > > even if you do only use it in one device. Remembering that /that/ > > one > > device may go through several software updates over time, so local > > handling of that kind of thing can get royally stuffed up. > > > > > Well, to keep that from happening, I do, do nightly > backups of my "CLAWS" folder in /home/chris just to be safe. > I don't do any backing up of email, since it's all on the IMAP server and they have full-time admins who I trust to know what they're doing. That's up to you of course. > So, I am guessing that you're saying that IMAP is better even though > its very painfully slow on my connection? Again, your use case is your own, but you might want to consider not synching the IMAP mail locally. In my own case that would be pointless, but YMMV. poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Sun Feb20'22 08:24:27PM, Community Support for Fedora Users wrote: > From: Tim via users > Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2022 20:24:27 +1030 > To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org > Cc: Tim > Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users > Subject: Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management > > On Sat, 2022-02-19 at 09:45 -0600, c. marlow wrote: > > HostGator offers Google Workspaces but I don't want to have to move > > 5 accounts to the new GW accounts and plus, just using HostGator's > > default email service, I get unlimited accounts vs having to pay for > > each one with GW. > > > > But then I started thinking this morning, WHY did I move to IMAP? I > > only check my email on my computer. I had the new account set up on > > my phone, but it got annoying to change accounts every time I open > > the gmail app from the free account that i've had since 2015 and > > don't use for anything to the new account for my domain. So I wound > > up removing the new account off of my phone. > > You could probably consolidate your gmail accounts (if you wanted to), > or at least pull mail from one to the other (again if you wanted to). > > Over the years I've accumulated a few email accounts, but long ago > realised various problems with that: Choosing which address to tell to > someone to contact me via, using email clients which didn't > automatically reply using the same account details that the message > came from, dealing with losing accounts I didn't want to lose (closing > ISPs, etc), and the more accounts the more spam you receive. Excellent points. I have tried to address the following by having four email accounts. One provided by my employer, and what I call my "main account". Has to do with work-related things and I use fetchmail to fetch email. I have a second email address for mailing lists, that I never check or fetch from, but use to email to mailing lists (yes, this one). The third email address is for everybody else but family, and I use that for everything unrelated to work and family. I use fetchmail to fetch email, but do not bother with fetching spam. GMX.com has a helpful feature where they summarize all the headers of messages marked spam and email me everyday and I use that to unmark spam as needed. The last email address is for family and even messages to spam there are attempted to be fetched, but the email address is not given out, and stays within the family. Works for me. Ranjan ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 10:02:27 -0600 Ranjan Maitra wrote: > I have a second email address for mailing lists, that I never check > or fetch from, but use to email to mailing lists (yes, this one). I am confused, if you don't check or fetch from this GMX account, the how do you know when people have answered you? Chris ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Sun Feb20'22 04:30:14PM, c. marlow wrote: > From: "c. marlow" > Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2022 16:30:14 -0600 > To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org > Reply-To: Community support for Fedora users > Subject: Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management > > On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 10:02:27 -0600 > Ranjan Maitra wrote: > > > I have a second email address for mailing lists, that I never check > > or fetch from, but use to email to mailing lists (yes, this one). > > > > I am confused, if you don't check or fetch from this GMX account, > the how do you know when people have answered you? Right, sorry, I also have one of those other email addresses subscribed to the mailing list. So I essentially read email sent there. Ranjan > > Chris > ___ > users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
Ranjan Maitra wrote: >> I have a second email address for mailing lists, that I never check >> or fetch from, but use to email to mailing lists (yes, this one). c. marlow: > I am confused, if you don't check or fetch from this GMX account, > the how do you know when people have answered you? They may be reading off the website (the mailing list, or GMX's). -- uname -rsvp Linux 5.11.22-100.fc32.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed May 19 18:58:25 UTC 2021 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Sun, 2022-02-20 at 16:30 -0600, c. marlow wrote: > I am confused, if you don't check or fetch from this GMX account, > the how do you know when people have answered you? Oops, didn't finish before I hit send. They could also do what I do: Subscribe to the list with two addresses. Have list mail sent to one address. Reply on the other. I did that because I want to avoid receiving spam and private messages from strangers on the list. Twenty-plus years of being on mailing lists has taught me that they're full of nutters, and a prime cause of masses of spam. And that automatic anti-spam systems always screw up. I'd do it all (send and receive) through an external service, but they tend to erroneously reject list mail as spam, so I receive the messages on a service that doesn't do that, it only accepts mail from the list, and does no other filtering. Since I don't want that service to get spammed (not having to manage that traffic in any way), I avoid exposing its address by posting to the list from another address that rejects all mail. If you use the usual public services, gmail, yahoo, etc., they all have uncontrollable and fallible anti-spam systems. It means you have to continually check your junk mail folder for false positives (so what's the damn point in doing any filtering?). Or, you don't bother checking, and you seriously piss someone off who's been trying to contact you, or simply miss out on solutions to problems and work, completely unaware that you're missing some mail. -- uname -rsvp Linux 5.11.22-100.fc32.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed May 19 18:58:25 UTC 2021 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 09:37:25 +1030 Tim via users wrote: > I did that because I want to avoid receiving spam and private messages > from strangers on the list. Twenty-plus years of being on mailing > lists has taught me that they're full of nutters, and a prime cause of > masses of spam. And that automatic anti-spam systems always screw up. I should of done that... I am on a mailing list that for some reason I wasn't getting that person's messages and could only see what they said when someone replied to them.. That would of worked perfectly in that situation. I changed hosting providers.. I think that fixed it. > > I'd do it all (send and receive) through an external service, but they > tend to erroneously reject list mail as spam, so I receive the > messages on a service that doesn't do that, it only accepts mail from > the list, and does no other filtering. Since I don't want that > service to get spammed (not having to manage that traffic in any > way), I avoid exposing its address by posting to the list from > another address that rejects all mail. I dont mind people coming to me OL... Until they say mean and hateful things in their email. And then, you get a special filter set up in your honor that has Claws silently delete your emails and not let me know that you sent me something :) > If you use the usual public services, gmail, yahoo, etc., they all > have uncontrollable and fallible anti-spam systems. It means you > have to continually check your junk mail folder for false positives > (so what's the damn point in doing any filtering?). Or, you don't > bother checking, and you seriously piss someone off who's been trying > to contact you, or simply miss out on solutions to problems and work, > completely unaware that you're missing some mail. You can turn off Gmail's spam filtering: *Create Filter* in:spam ( never send to spam) label:spam ( never send to spam) is:spam ( never send to spam) And for an extra bonus: TO = myaddr...@gmail.com ( never send to spam) === Thanks, Chris Please send *ALL* off list conversations to ch...@cwm030.com Otherwise, I will never see it. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
For everyone: Just to follow up I wound up going back to POP and setting my email up like Robert Moskowitz I have Claws MOVE the emails to my local folders. I could of just had CPANEL forward all 5 of my email accounts to the brand new gmail account, set that brand new gmail account up in Claws as a POP account and then download everything that way I don't have to wait for EACH IMAP account to update and then move the email to the local folders. I guess that's something to think about... I am trying to compensate being stuck on a slow satallite dish connection and use as little data as I can since I only get 30 gigs a month and i've already ran out for the month with 18 days left in my billing cycle. OYE VEY! Oh, And SAT DISH connections ARE EXPENSIVE!! === Thanks, Chris Please send *ALL* off list conversations to ch...@cwm030.com Otherwise, I will never see it. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
> I could of just had CPANEL forward all 5 of my email accounts to > the brand new gmail account, set that brand new gmail account up in > Claws as a POP account and then download everything that way I don't > have to wait for EACH IMAP account to update and then move the email > to the local folders. > > I guess that's something to think about... I am trying to compensate > being stuck on a slow satallite dish connection and use as little data > as I can since I only get 30 gigs a month and i've already ran out for > the month with 18 days left in my billing cycle. OYE VEY! Just ignore this ^^ That was just a ADD / ADHD moment... lol... ADD is a CURSE I SWEAR! lol Chris ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Mon, 2022-02-21 at 07:05 -0600, c. marlow wrote: > I dont mind people coming to me OL... Until they say mean and hateful > things in their email. And then, you get a special filter set up in > your honor that has Claws silently delete your emails and not let me > know that you sent me something :) I don't know about other countries, but it's actually illegal to send harassing mail, there's nothing that excludes email from that law. Mind you, unless it was death threats you're unlikely to get anyone to take action on it. I just decided that I'd had enough of it, and wasn't going to deal with any more. People can contact me off-list, but either they mention it on-list and I reply (if I want to), or they do some sleuthing to figure out how to contact me. But it's not just harassing mail, some people are just plain nuts and you can do without having to deal with the weirder stuff they talk about when they're not in the public eye. Many years ago I responded back to a mailing list to a stupid private email, just so everyone could see what they were like. Tim: >> If you use the usual public services, gmail, yahoo, etc., they all >> have uncontrollable and fallible anti-spam systems. It means you >> have to continually check your junk mail folder for false positives > You can turn off Gmail's spam filtering: Over time there's been discussions about that, but consensus was that you can't. Attempting to do so my throttle it somewhat, but not completely disable it. While it makes sense to have it detect mail from false addresses and spam-bin them, it's overzealous and fallible at coming to that conclusion. There's a lot of genuine mail that doesn't meet their criteria for authenticated. List mail often confused it, and there's a plethora of service providers that don't authenticate their user's mail as being verified. When you send through a SMTP server that requires you to log in, and you're a customer that somehow they've previously verified your identity, they should be flagging the mail as it goes through in a way that other servers trust. Not all do. And, of course the spam houses will fake that trust, anyway, for their own posts. > > And for an extra bonus: > > TO = myaddr...@gmail.com ( never send to spam) I had tried that kind of thing before, but other non-user- controllable anti-spam filters were in effect *before* user customisable ones. While that may have changed, I kind of doubt it. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.53.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jan 14 13:59:45 UTC 2022 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
Tim: >> You could probably consolidate your gmail accounts (if you wanted >> to), or at least pull mail from one to the other (again if you >> wanted to). c. marlow: > using Gmail's fetch setting under webmail settings? Sounds right. I haven't explored their interface for ages, to see where they hid everything. That's another bugbear with webmail interfaces; they keep redesigning things on you, then you have to go hunting for something you need. Sure, mail clients do that, too, but far less often (in my experience), and usually their interfaces seem more logically organised. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.53.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jan 14 13:59:45 UTC 2022 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
SO UPDATE: Since I have a domain host that allows me to point my email to be delivered to any email address that accepts mail. It's what they call a "Forwarding only service" I currently have my email pointed towards a brand new free Yahoo account. To date... Yahoo has the biggest storage limit of 1 Terabyte of storage. And since I don't send out a lot of emails anymore nor do I get a lot of emails with a lot of attachments, 1 TB of storage could last me for the rest of my life! TBH on using IMAP: Opening Claws and having to wait for a little over a minute for email to be sorted into folders and then wait for the folder to light up to let me know that, that folder has new mail in it, is kinda frustrating. But I guess I'll get use to it? I just know that backing up my Claws-Mail folders is starting to get harder and harder. Right now, Nautilius says that the claws folder has 31,989 items in it, and the current size of my Claws data folder is 799.2 Megs. My Nextcloud backup service only gives me 20 gigs of storage. So, by me doing daily backups of my Claws Data.. I am currently sitting at 9.1 gigs out of 20 used. I was using a free gmail account, but GMAIL is fixing to do away with being able to use Less Secure Apps... And I didn't feel like having to jump through hoops to set up O-OATH for Claws and gmail.. So I knew it was time to make the switch now, instead of waiting until May. Switching to IMAP is kind of new for me. It also gives me anxiety too knowing my WHOLE LIFE is stored online now instead of locally in my email client But it does make life a little bit easier now that I don't have anything to backup anymore and I can switch around to any email client that I want. === Thanks, Chris Please send *ALL* off list conversations to ch...@cwm030.com Otherwise, I will never see it. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
Since I am using IMAP I am trying something different: Currently writing this email from within Evolution... I keep opening new emails and wanting to go to the right side of the screen and click: SEND TO BROWSER... for HTML emails... This is weird! It's been a good while since I've used Evolution. Chris ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Mon, 2022-03-07 at 17:36 -0600, c. marlow wrote: > Since I am using IMAP I am trying something different: > > Currently writing this email from within Evolution... > > I keep opening new emails and wanting to go to the right side of the > screen and click: > > SEND TO BROWSER... > > for HTML emails... This is weird! > > It's been a good while since I've used Evolution. Is this a question? If so, maybe you should consider asking on the Evolution list. poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
I've tried to move away from gmail, but it's not easy. I've been a kde fan for years, and back in the day used kmail. Triggered by this discussion, I tried again to use kmail with gmail/imap. But after waiting some hours for mail to sync gave up. I've never used evolution, but decided to try it. This time speed to sync was much more acceptable. But there is one barrier to using evolution over gmail web interface. Gmail sorts mail automatically into "categories", distinct from the mail folders that you can manually create. I find these categories just too useful, and they are not reflected into imap folders. Without this sorting, my inbox is too cluttered with e.g., Promotions, which I would normally not bother with when using gmail/web. On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 6:56 AM Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > On Mon, 2022-03-07 at 17:36 -0600, c. marlow wrote: > > Since I am using IMAP I am trying something different: > > > > Currently writing this email from within Evolution... > > > > I keep opening new emails and wanting to go to the right side of the > > screen and click: > > > > SEND TO BROWSER... > > > > for HTML emails... This is weird! > > > > It's been a good while since I've used Evolution. > > Is this a question? If so, maybe you should consider asking on the > Evolution list. > > poc > ___ > users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure > -- *Those who don't understand recursion are doomed to repeat it* ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Tue, 2022-03-08 at 07:22 -0500, Neal Becker wrote: > I've never used evolution, but decided to try it. This time speed to > sync > was much more acceptable. But there is one barrier to using > evolution over > gmail web interface. Gmail sorts mail automatically into > "categories", > distinct from the mail folders that you can manually create. I find > these > categories just too useful, and they are not reflected into imap > folders. > Without this sorting, my inbox is too cluttered with e.g., > Promotions, > which I would normally not bother with when using gmail/web. Although I haven't looked closely at this, I think the same is going to happen with any desktop MUA, given that Gmail implements this via its own non-standard "magic". If they used IMAP labels it could perhaps be made to work, but I don't think they do. In practice, I use Evo and the Web interface for different things, e.g. Gmail doesn't handle mailing lists well. poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Tue, 2022-03-08 at 11:56 +, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > Is this a question? If so, maybe you should consider asking on the > Evolution list. > > poc No, I was just saying its weird getting use to things again. I do have a question, but I know if I come over there I am going to get told to RTFM. Basically, I imported my emails from CLAWS to Evolution by: * Opening Claws * Selecting all emails in that one mailbox * Clicked the file menu * EXPORT TO MBOX FILE then imported the emails into Evo by selecting the file and telling EVO that it's a .mbox file type. But I noticed that when I went to rename the folder in EVO to something else... The folder was suddenly empty. But at the top left of the screen it said there was 1533 emails total in the folder.. I tried to delete the whole folder to reimport, the emails just showed up with a error message saying the directory wasn't empty. So I selected all emails in that folder and deleted them and deleted the folder and re-created the folder and reimported the emails and so far everything is okay. Before any of this happened, I did a complete reset of Evo: https://www.reddit.com/r/gnome/comments/sy460m/evolution_reset/ Thanks, Chris Please send all off list messages to ch...@cwm030.com Fedora 35 Gnome 3 ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Tue, 2022-03-08 at 13:40 +, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > Although I haven't looked closely at this, I think the same is going > to happen with any desktop MUA, given that Gmail implements this via > its own non-standard "magic". If they used IMAP labels it could > perhaps be made to work, but I don't think they do. I've had a play with labels in Evolution. The first label you make becomes label 1, the next one label 2, and how your client colours them is up to it. It doesn't matter what purpose you give them. If you, then, read the mail in another client, they may not be considered the same labels. Certainly not if you'd already made some labels in it. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.59.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Feb 23 16:47:03 UTC 2022 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Tue, 2022-03-08 at 07:22 -0500, Neal Becker wrote: > I've tried to move away from gmail, but it's not easy. > > I've been a kde fan for years, and back in the day used kmail. > Triggered by this discussion, I tried again to use kmail with > gmail/imap. But after waiting some hours for mail to sync gave up. > > I've never used evolution, but decided to try it. This time speed to > sync was much more acceptable. But there is one barrier to using > evolution over gmail web interface. Gmail sorts mail automatically > into "categories", distinct from the mail folders that you can > manually create. I find these categories just too useful, and they > are not reflected into imap folders. Without this sorting, my inbox > is too cluttered with e.g., Promotions, which I would normally not > bother with when using gmail/web. I turn all of that stuff off. But there's one thing I cant stand about GMAIL imap, and that is when you go to delete a email and you tap the delete key, the emails get moved to [GMAIL/TRASH]. And when you go to look for something under ALL MAIL, Emails that you wanted to keep are mixed in with trash until you move all of those emails under the label [ GMAIL/TRASH] to the actual trash folder under webmail. Thanks, Chris Please send all off list messages to ch...@cwm030.com Fedora 35 Gnome 3 ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Wed, 2022-03-09 at 01:36 +1030, Tim via users wrote: > I've had a play with labels in Evolution. The first label you make > becomes label 1, the next one label 2, and how your client colours > them > is up to it. It doesn't matter what purpose you give them. If you, > then, read the mail in another client, they may not be considered the > same labels. Certainly not if you'd already made some labels in it. Oh, is that what you're supposed to do? That's the correct way of using gmail with IMAP? oops Whatever email client I am in, I just make a rule If users@lists.fedoraproject.org Then.. MOVE TO: "Fedora List" Thanks, Chris Please send all off list messages to ch...@cwm030.com Fedora 35 Gnome 3 ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Wed, 2022-03-09 at 01:36 +1030, Tim via users wrote: > > Although I haven't looked closely at this, I think the same is > > going > > to happen with any desktop MUA, given that Gmail implements this > > via > > its own non-standard "magic". If they used IMAP labels it could > > perhaps be made to work, but I don't think they do. > > I've had a play with labels in Evolution. The first label you make > becomes label 1, the next one label 2, and how your client colours > them > is up to it. It doesn't matter what purpose you give them. If you, > then, read the mail in another client, they may not be considered the > same labels. Certainly not if you'd already made some labels in it. Tim, I just tried the labels thing and I noticed that when you apply the label, not really much happens: I added the labels column to Evolution... And Yes, I see that it tagged the email with " Fedora Group" but that was it. For a test, I dragged the email from the gmail server to ON THIS COMPUTER and I noticed the email turned completly blue ( Thats the color I picked out ) and had FEDORA GROUP listed as the label under the label column. Interesting. Thanks, Chris Please send all off list messages to ch...@cwm030.com Fedora 35 Gnome 3 ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Tue, 2022-03-08 at 08:06 -0600, c. marlow wrote: > Basically, I imported my emails from CLAWS to Evolution by: > > * Opening Claws > > * Selecting all emails in that one mailbox > > * Clicked the file menu > > * EXPORT TO MBOX FILE > > then imported the emails into Evo by selecting the file and telling > EVO that it's a .mbox file type. > > But I noticed that when I went to rename the folder in EVO to > something else... The folder was suddenly empty. But at the top left > of the screen it said there was 1533 emails total in the folder.. I > tried to delete the whole folder to reimport, the emails just showed > up with a error message saying the directory wasn't empty. I wonder if it was just taking a while (too long) to process them before showing the list. For what it's worth, I didn't bother with using the import features of Evolution (when I changed OS installations a year or so ago). I found it was sufficient (and less wading through menus and options) to just drop a mail spool file onto the folder I wanted them to go in (create a folder, then drop the mbox file from a file browser onto the folder name in the list of folders) I've just done a quick test now, using 24 meg spool file with some 11,000 messages, it seems to be importing about 3 messages a second. Probably the most painful thing about doing anything on Evolution is trying to abort a lengthy process. You only seem to be able to abort a current little bit of it, it'll just carry on doing the rest. Clicking the offline/online button to go offline was the only way I could abort this little (little!?) test. I had no trouble deleting the folder after that. It vanished in a couple of seconds. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.59.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Feb 23 16:47:03 UTC 2022 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list. ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Wed, 2022-03-09 at 01:52 +1030, Tim via users wrote: > I wonder if it was just taking a while (too long) to process them > before showing the list. > > For what it's worth, I didn't bother with using the import features > of > Evolution (when I changed OS installations a year or so ago). I > found > it was sufficient (and less wading through menus and options) to just > drop a mail spool file onto the folder I wanted them to go in (create > a > folder, then drop the mbox file from a file browser onto the folder > name in the list of folders) > > I've just done a quick test now, using 24 meg spool file with some > 11,000 messages, it seems to be importing about 3 messages a second. > > Probably the most painful thing about doing anything on Evolution is > trying to abort a lengthy process. You only seem to be able to abort > a > current little bit of it, it'll just carry on doing the rest. > Clicking > the offline/online button to go offline was the only way I could > abort > this little (little!?) test. I had no trouble deleting the folder > after that. It vanished in a couple of seconds. > I thought that I had a idea on what you were talking about, but I kinda didn't have a clue on what you were talking about so I took a chance: So I tried what you said: Created a folder called TEST opened up Nautilus into a small window then opened the TEST FOLDER in Evo and brought back up Nautilius and dragged that .mbox file into the TEST FOLDER Wow, that works so much faster than importing! Now I understand what you keep calling a " MAIL SPOOL" aka the .mbox files. Thanks, Chris Please send all off list messages to ch...@cwm030.com Fedora 35 Gnome 3 ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Tue, 2022-03-08 at 10:16 -0600, c. marlow wrote: > I thought that I had a idea on what you were talking about, but I > kinda didn't have a clue on what you were talking about so I took a > chance: > > So I tried what you said: > > Created a folder called TEST > > opened up Nautilus into a small window > > then opened the TEST FOLDER in Evo < SNIP > Tim, I am just wondering if you got this reply? I never got a copy of my email back for some odd reason. Thanks, Chris Please send all off list messages to ch...@cwm030.com Fedora 35 Gnome 3 ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Tue, 2022-03-08 at 08:06 -0600, c. marlow wrote: > Before any of this happened, I did a complete reset of Evo: > > https://www.reddit.com/r/gnome/comments/sy460m/evolution_reset/ Without examining this in detail, I'd advise using the Evolution list rather than Reddit. You're much more likely to get reliable answers. poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Wed, 2022-03-09 at 01:36 +1030, Tim via users wrote: > On Tue, 2022-03-08 at 13:40 +, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > Although I haven't looked closely at this, I think the same is > > going > > to happen with any desktop MUA, given that Gmail implements this > > via > > its own non-standard "magic". If they used IMAP labels it could > > perhaps be made to work, but I don't think they do. > > I've had a play with labels in Evolution. The first label you make > becomes label 1, the next one label 2, and how your client colours > them is up to it. It doesn't matter what purpose you give them. If > you, then, read the mail in another client, they may not be > considered the same labels. Certainly not if you'd already made some > labels in it. Looks like the interpretation of labels is not standardized across MUAs. That's too bad. For Gmail the term "label" labels are used to approximate the usual meaning of "folders" in other MUAs. In fact Gmail's implementation of IMAP presents Gmail labels as folders to the client. This means that messages with multiple Gmail labels will appear in multiple folders in the MUA interface. Every Gmail message as at least one label: All Mail, and may have others such as Inbox. I think Fastmail IMAP works in a similar way. Evolution's labels are simply tags applied to messages and are entirely optional. They have no relationship with folders and are intended for marking messages as Important, TODO, etc. They appear as a coloured flag in the message index. poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Tue, 2022-03-08 at 09:45 -0600, c. marlow wrote: > On Wed, 2022-03-09 at 01:36 +1030, Tim via users wrote: > > I've had a play with labels in Evolution. The first label you make > > becomes label 1, the next one label 2, and how your client colours > > them > > is up to it. It doesn't matter what purpose you give them. If > > you, > > then, read the mail in another client, they may not be considered > > the > > same labels. Certainly not if you'd already made some labels in > > it. > > > Oh, is that what you're supposed to do? > > That's the correct way of using gmail with IMAP? oops > > Whatever email client I am in, I just make a rule > > If users@lists.fedoraproject.org > > Then.. > > MOVE TO: "Fedora List" That's an entirely different thing. Labels are simply tags you apply to messages. What you're talking about here is using folders to group mail. Gmail's labels map onto IMAP folders, not Evolution labels. poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: Kinda OT: Email clients and Email Management
On Tue, 2022-03-08 at 09:09 -0600, c. marlow wrote: > On Tue, 2022-03-08 at 07:22 -0500, Neal Becker wrote: > > I've tried to move away from gmail, but it's not easy. > > > > I've been a kde fan for years, and back in the day used kmail. > > Triggered by this discussion, I tried again to use kmail with > > gmail/imap. But after waiting some hours for mail to sync gave up. > > > > I've never used evolution, but decided to try it. This time speed > > to > > sync was much more acceptable. But there is one barrier to using > > evolution over gmail web interface. Gmail sorts mail automatically > > into "categories", distinct from the mail folders that you can > > manually create. I find these categories just too useful, and they > > are not reflected into imap folders. Without this sorting, my > > inbox > > is too cluttered with e.g., Promotions, which I would normally not > > bother with when using gmail/web. > > > I turn all of that stuff off. > > But there's one thing I cant stand about GMAIL imap, and that is when > you go to delete a email and you tap the delete key, the emails get > moved to [GMAIL/TRASH]. And when you go to look for something under > ALL > MAIL, > Emails that you wanted to keep are mixed in with trash until you move > all of those emails under the label [ GMAIL/TRASH] to the actual > trash > folder under webmail. The canonical way of deleting a message in IMAP is to simply mark it as "Deleted". That makes it easy to undelete by simply removing the mark. Evolution can optionally show you marked messages or hide them (see View->Show Deleted Messages). You make the deletion permanent by "expunging" the folder (not the individual message) or emptying the Trash on the account. Evolution's default Trash is actually virtual; it's simply a search folder that collects the messages marked for deletion in every other folder. This is the way IMAP servers are supposed to work, but not all implementations follow the spec, and Gmail is one that doesn't. Evolution was thus enhanced to cater for IMAP servers that have an actual Trash folder to which messages are moved. You can get that behaviour under: Preferences->"account-name"->Defaults->Use a real folder for Trash and setting it to Gmail/Trash. poc ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
