Re: [Vo]:Nature Editorial: If you want reproducible science, the software needs to be open source
Steven, Have you played with celestia? http://www.shatters.net/celestia/ Back to the topic. The original article from Nature: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v482/n7386/full/nature10836.html mic Il giorno 28 febbraio 2012 15:53, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com ha scritto: Some here might sympathize with the following editorial: http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2012/02/science-code-should-be-open-source-according-to-editorial.ars In my own case I continue to tinker away with s/w I have developed over the years that simulate the characteristics of celestial mechanics. I enjoy delving into the realms of theoretical research. It's cheap! Cut's down on expensive lab equipment! I realize it is somewhat maniacal for me to say this but on the surface it appears to me as if I might have uncovered some additional laws that could be added to Kepler's famous laws... or not. (I realize I could just be fooling myself! ;-) )Time will tell. I'm still in the process of trying to construct and run more accurate modeling simulations to either verify or falsify my suspicions. If the results turn out to be encouraging I'll need to publish the data along with the s/w that reproduced the results. In the end one's work must be reproducible. Otherwise, it all just here say. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik)
On 2012-02-29 02:30, Daniel Rocha wrote: The test was supposed to start on Friday 24 February, but according to sources of Ny Teknik it was initiated only after the weekend. The sources also said that the test was not focused on power or energy measurements but rather on safety. http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3419346.ece DGT's reaction to Lewan's article: http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4t=1272 Nytechnik article is 100% wrong based on pure speculations of the journalist. We expect his response after a direct communication with him. DGT Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik)
I feel like banging my head against a wall. 2012/2/29 Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com On 2012-02-29 02:30, Daniel Rocha wrote: The test was supposed to start on Friday 24 February, but according to sources of Ny Teknik it was initiated only after the weekend. The sources also said that the test was not focused on power or energy measurements but rather on safety. http://www.nyteknik.se/**nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/**article3419346.ecehttp://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3419346.ece DGT's reaction to Lewan's article: http://www.defkalion-energy.**com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4t=**1272http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4t=1272 Nytechnik article is 100% wrong based on pure speculations of the journalist. We expect his response after a direct communication with him. DGT Cheers, S.A. -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
RE: [Vo]:Nature Editorial: If you want reproducible science, the software needs to be open source
From Michele: Have you played with celestia? http://www.shatters.net/celestia/ No, I haven't. I'll take a closer look at the tour when I get some time. Back to the topic. The original article from Nature: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v482/n7386/full/nature10836.html Thanks for the original Nature article as well. Following up on my previous commentary, yesterday for the first time I performed a computer simulation that showed me what appears to be an alternative way to graph (or simulate) a typical elliptical orbit. Traditional algorithms employ a basic feed-back loop based on 1/R**2 of the distance. However, the alternative feed-back loop algorithm I started experimenting with is based on combining both 1/r**2 AND 1/R**3. Obviously, this new algorithm might sound counter intuitive at first glance. I'll try to explain how I arrived at such an audacious algorithm when I get a little more time in a couple of days. What I can say is that the new system involves an alternative way of graphing out a periodic orbit - where you plot an elliptical orbit on a TIME-LINE chart. The orbital distance is the Y vertical value and the horizontal X value is the time value. Both the traditional AND the new alternative algorithms seem to work using this alternative X/Y chart. I overplayed both the traditional and alterative versions on top of each other and they fit like a glove. The implication is what appears to be an alternative (and possibly a more realistic or practical perspective) that suggests something akin to an interplay positive AND negative gravitational/centripetal forces that influence a typical elliptical orbit depending on where the satellite is located in its orbital period. Sorry, that last sentence was a mouthful, wasn't it. ;-) PS: I came up with the idea after reading up on one of Miles Mathis essays on the physics of orbital periods. http://www.amazon.com/unified-Field-other-problems/dp/1452005141 The book is self-published. I'm sure nobody wanted to be associated with what he wanted to talk about. http://milesmathis.com/ Some consider Mathis to be a crank, but he DID give me some ideas! Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik)
http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4t=1272p=6889#p6889 Defkalion disagree with that article: Nytechnik article is 100% wrong based on pure speculations of the journalist. We expect his response after a direct communication with him. DGT 2012/2/29 Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com Defkalion failed to make it clear on their forum that the government representatives have so far only evaluated the Hyperion's safety. Surely, they realize that most people interpreted their vague annoncement of positive results as positive measures of energy gain. Why do we have to learn through Mats Lewan what they really meant? Harry On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: The test was supposed to start on Friday 24 February, but according to sources of Ny Teknik it was initiated only after the weekend. The sources also said that the test was not focused on power or energy measurements but rather on safety. http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3419346.ece -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:The Aspden Effect
Terry, FYI: Within your ref: That quantum jitter, by the way, is the so-called 'Zitterbewegung' that underlies Heisenberg's Principle of Uncertainty in quantum theory, by which neither position nor momentum are certain, but multiply the two together and you get a definite quantum of angular momentum h/2π, where h is Planck's constant of action. I have good reason to believe that matter acquires that jitter property by sharing it with a universal activity in the aether itself, or the 'vacuum medium' should the word 'aether' seem inappopriate terminology to a physicist who may read this. See explaination in Guglinski's book Quantum Ring Theorey, 2006. Warm Regards, Reality Terry Blanton wrote: This is worth repeating from years ago: http://www.haroldaspden.com/lectures/30.htm T
RE: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik)
UPDATED (February 29): In an interview with New Technology, said Alexandros Xanthoulis that the test was conducted on 24 February and that it is not focused on security, as the product is ready for such tests. The focus instead was to show that the released heat energy from a Low Energy Nuclear Reaction and not from a chemical source. The test lasted for 24 hours and comprising both an empty and active site reactor changed after 12 hours. Xanthoulis also told that two of the seven international groups have already carried out their tests and that the final test is scheduled for late March. He did not know when or if the test results will be published. / End update /. http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=autotl=enjs=nprev=_thl=enie=UTF-8layout=2eotf=1u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nyteknik.se%2Fnyheter%2Fenergi_miljo%2Fenergi%2Farticle3419329.ece From: alain.sep...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 14:59:44 +0100 Subject: Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik) To: vortex-l@eskimo.com http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4t=1272p=6889#p6889 Defkalion disagree with that article: Nytechnik article is 100% wrong based on pure speculations of the journalist. We expect his response after a direct communication with him. DGT 2012/2/29 Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com Defkalion failed to make it clear on their forum that the government representatives have so far only evaluated the Hyperion's safety. Surely, they realize that most people interpreted their vague annoncement of positive results as positive measures of energy gain. Why do we have to learn through Mats Lewan what they really meant? Harry On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: The test was supposed to start on Friday 24 February, but according to sources of Ny Teknik it was initiated only after the weekend. The sources also said that the test was not focused on power or energy measurements but rather on safety. http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3419346.ece -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik)
So, each reaction merely last 12 hours and not 48 hours. 2 teams already, when we just expected only 1. *facepalm* This story gets worse and worse for DGT. 2012/2/29 Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com *UPDATED* (February 29): In an interview with New Technology, said Alexandros Xanthoulis that the test was conducted on 24 February and that it is not focused on security, as the product is ready for such tests. The focus instead was to show that the released heat energy from a Low Energy Nuclear Reaction and not from a chemical source. The test lasted for 24 hours and comprising both an empty and active site reactor changed after 12 hours. Xanthoulis also told that two of the seven international groups have already carried out their tests and that the final test is scheduled for late March. He did not know when or if the test results will be published. / End update /. http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=autotl=enjs=nprev=_thl=enie=UTF-8layout=2eotf=1u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nyteknik.se%2Fnyheter%2Fenergi_miljo%2Fenergi%2Farticle3419329.ece -- From: alain.sep...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 14:59:44 +0100 Subject: Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik) To: vortex-l@eskimo.com http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4t=1272p=6889#p6889 Defkalion disagree with that article: Nytechnik article is 100% wrong based on pure speculations of the journalist. We expect his response after a direct communication with him. DGT 2012/2/29 Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com Defkalion failed to make it clear on their forum that the government representatives have so far only evaluated the Hyperion's safety. Surely, they realize that most people interpreted their vague annoncement of positive results as positive measures of energy gain. Why do we have to learn through Mats Lewan what they really meant? Harry On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: The test was supposed to start on Friday 24 February, but according to sources of Ny Teknik it was initiated only after the weekend. The sources also said that the test was not focused on power or energy measurements but rather on safety. http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3419346.ece -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik)
Making tests- internal or with other parties is now a routine activity for DGT; tests can be of different duration and can differ by other parameters too. Till we have no data and other information, we cannot say what the tests show. The tests are done with and for people who will take decisions and have influence. If these people do not need or do not like publicity,our curiosity will suffer. Peter On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 4:39 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: So, each reaction merely last 12 hours and not 48 hours. 2 teams already, when we just expected only 1. *facepalm* This story gets worse and worse for DGT. 2012/2/29 Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com *UPDATED* (February 29): In an interview with New Technology, said Alexandros Xanthoulis that the test was conducted on 24 February and that it is not focused on security, as the product is ready for such tests. The focus instead was to show that the released heat energy from a Low Energy Nuclear Reaction and not from a chemical source. The test lasted for 24 hours and comprising both an empty and active site reactor changed after 12 hours. Xanthoulis also told that two of the seven international groups have already carried out their tests and that the final test is scheduled for late March. He did not know when or if the test results will be published. / End update /. http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=autotl=enjs=nprev=_thl=enie=UTF-8layout=2eotf=1u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nyteknik.se%2Fnyheter%2Fenergi_miljo%2Fenergi%2Farticle3419329.ece -- From: alain.sep...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 14:59:44 +0100 Subject: Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik) To: vortex-l@eskimo.com http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4t=1272p=6889#p6889 Defkalion disagree with that article: Nytechnik article is 100% wrong based on pure speculations of the journalist. We expect his response after a direct communication with him. DGT 2012/2/29 Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com Defkalion failed to make it clear on their forum that the government representatives have so far only evaluated the Hyperion's safety. Surely, they realize that most people interpreted their vague annoncement of positive results as positive measures of energy gain. Why do we have to learn through Mats Lewan what they really meant? Harry On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: The test was supposed to start on Friday 24 February, but according to sources of Ny Teknik it was initiated only after the weekend. The sources also said that the test was not focused on power or energy measurements but rather on safety. http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3419346.ece -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik)
I wish it was only my curiosity that were suffering. I feel more disappointed than anxious for results. 2012/2/29 Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com Making tests- internal or with other parties is now a routine activity for DGT; tests can be of different duration and can differ by other parameters too. Till we have no data and other information, we cannot say what the tests show. The tests are done with and for people who will take decisions and have influence. If these people do not need or do not like publicity,our curiosity will suffer. Peter On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 4:39 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: So, each reaction merely last 12 hours and not 48 hours. 2 teams already, when we just expected only 1. *facepalm* This story gets worse and worse for DGT. 2012/2/29 Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com *UPDATED* (February 29): In an interview with New Technology, said Alexandros Xanthoulis that the test was conducted on 24 February and that it is not focused on security, as the product is ready for such tests. The focus instead was to show that the released heat energy from a Low Energy Nuclear Reaction and not from a chemical source. The test lasted for 24 hours and comprising both an empty and active site reactor changed after 12 hours. Xanthoulis also told that two of the seven international groups have already carried out their tests and that the final test is scheduled for late March. He did not know when or if the test results will be published. / End update /. http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=autotl=enjs=nprev=_thl=enie=UTF-8layout=2eotf=1u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nyteknik.se%2Fnyheter%2Fenergi_miljo%2Fenergi%2Farticle3419329.ece -- From: alain.sep...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 14:59:44 +0100 Subject: Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik) To: vortex-l@eskimo.com http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4t=1272p=6889#p6889 Defkalion disagree with that article: Nytechnik article is 100% wrong based on pure speculations of the journalist. We expect his response after a direct communication with him. DGT 2012/2/29 Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com Defkalion failed to make it clear on their forum that the government representatives have so far only evaluated the Hyperion's safety. Surely, they realize that most people interpreted their vague annoncement of positive results as positive measures of energy gain. Why do we have to learn through Mats Lewan what they really meant? Harry On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: The test was supposed to start on Friday 24 February, but according to sources of Ny Teknik it was initiated only after the weekend. The sources also said that the test was not focused on power or energy measurements but rather on safety. http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3419346.ece -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
[Vo]:IBM: We're on the cusp of the Quantum Computing revolution (video)
Might be of interest to some here: http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/28/ibm-quantum-computing/ Sounds like it would certainly speed up some of my own computer simulation work. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Nature Editorial: If you want reproducible science, the software needs to be open source
On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 8:54 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: What I can say is that the new system involves an alternative way of graphing out a periodic orbit - where you plot an elliptical orbit on a TIME-LINE chart. The orbital distance is the Y vertical value and the horizontal X value is the time value. That graph should look something like a sine curveor not? Harry Both the traditional AND the new alternative algorithms seem to work using this alternative X/Y chart. I overplayed both the traditional and alterative versions on top of each other and they fit like a glove. The implication is what appears to be an alternative (and possibly a more realistic or practical perspective) that suggests something akin to an interplay positive AND negative gravitational/centripetal forces that influence a typical elliptical orbit depending on where the satellite is located in its orbital period. Sorry, that last sentence was a mouthful, wasn't it. ;-) PS: I came up with the idea after reading up on one of Miles Mathis essays on the physics of orbital periods. http://www.amazon.com/unified-Field-other-problems/dp/1452005141 The book is self-published. I'm sure nobody wanted to be associated with what he wanted to talk about. http://milesmathis.com/ Some consider Mathis to be a crank, but he DID give me some ideas! Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Nature Editorial: If you want reproducible science, the software needs to be open source
From Harry: From OrionWorks: What I can say is that the new system involves an alternative way of graphing out a periodic orbit - where you plot an elliptical orbit on a TIME-LINE chart. The orbital distance is the Y vertical value and the horizontal X value is the time value. That graph should look something like a sine curveor not? You're on the right track. However the time-line looks more like a bouncing ball. The bouncing part is where the satellite has reached the perihelion (closest distance) in the orbital period. Ironically, at this moment in time I would conjecture that it would not be incorrect to stipulate that the orbiting satellite is behaving as if it's being influenced by a NEGATIVE gravitational field. That's where the 1/r^3 (cubed) part of the algorithm comes into play. It influences the direction the satellite is taking by pushing it away. Traditionally speaking, we are used to interpreting that aspect of the orbit as the influence of centripetal action. It's all a matter of interpretation! The cubed (negative forces) influence only comes into play in close proximity to the planet for which the satellite is orbiting around. At farther distances, the normal 1/r^2 (attractive forces) take over. It's really kind of a nifty perspective, if not a little wacky! ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik)
Defkalion does not bother to explain why these tests differ significantly from those that were originally planned. It is ok to change plans, but without an explanation it makes their behaviour look suspicious. Similarly they never explained why the tests planned for last august never occured. IMO, this is bad PR on their part. Harry On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 9:53 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: Making tests- internal or with other parties is now a routine activity for DGT; tests can be of different duration and can differ by other parameters too. Till we have no data and other information, we cannot say what the tests show. The tests are done with and for people who will take decisions and have influence. If these people do not need or do not like publicity,our curiosity will suffer. Peter On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 4:39 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: So, each reaction merely last 12 hours and not 48 hours. 2 teams already, when we just expected only 1. *facepalm* This story gets worse and worse for DGT. 2012/2/29 Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com UPDATED (February 29): In an interview with New Technology, said Alexandros Xanthoulis that the test was conducted on 24 February and that it is not focused on security, as the product is ready for such tests. The focus instead was to show that the released heat energy from a Low Energy Nuclear Reaction and not from a chemical source. The test lasted for 24 hours and comprising both an empty and active site reactor changed after 12 hours. Xanthoulis also told that two of the seven international groups have already carried out their tests and that the final test is scheduled for late March. He did not know when or if the test results will be published. / End update /. http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=autotl=enjs=nprev=_thl=enie=UTF-8layout=2eotf=1u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nyteknik.se%2Fnyheter%2Fenergi_miljo%2Fenergi%2Farticle3419329.ece From: alain.sep...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 14:59:44 +0100 Subject: Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik) To: vortex-l@eskimo.com http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4t=1272p=6889#p6889 Defkalion disagree with that article: Nytechnik article is 100% wrong based on pure speculations of the journalist. We expect his response after a direct communication with him. DGT 2012/2/29 Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com Defkalion failed to make it clear on their forum that the government representatives have so far only evaluated the Hyperion's safety. Surely, they realize that most people interpreted their vague annoncement of positive results as positive measures of energy gain. Why do we have to learn through Mats Lewan what they really meant? Harry On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: The test was supposed to start on Friday 24 February, but according to sources of Ny Teknik it was initiated only after the weekend. The sources also said that the test was not focused on power or energy measurements but rather on safety. http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3419346.ece -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
RE: [Vo]:OT: $35 computer sells out on first day of launch
Yikes - this is not OT at all. How can they do it for the price? This could kill a big chunk of the Pic and Arduino market for microcontrollers, with a few changes. Don't be surprised if your new Ni-H system is controlled by something similar. -Original Message- From: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson This might be of interest to some here as well! Tiny $35 Raspberry Pi computer causes big stir on launch day http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/29/tech/raspberry-pi-launch/index.html?hpt=hp_bn6 Excerpt: (CNN) -- The tiny $35 Raspberry Pi computer went on sale today, crashing its distributors' websites on the way to selling out within hours of launch. attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:OT: $35 computer sells out on first day of launch
The broadcom chip on there is of the kind that is in your iphone and other smartphones. They are SoC's (system-on-a-chip), meaning all peripherals are on the chip. If you look at the board you will see that there is almost no other glue, than just what is needed to go to the various connectors. The iphone and android success and the competition between them has made these chips really, really cheap. Also, the raspi foundation is a charity organization that intends to bring kids back to the commodore 64 spirit, and it does not care much for much margin. In fact, where you say that the Ni-H system can be controlled by something similar, you are spot on: the fusioncatalyst.org open source initiative that Bastiaan announced will use the beaglebone, which is a very similar device, and uses the same ARM CPU core. It is here on my desk, has tons of I/O pins and works great. The raspi is just a bit short on I/O pins, but, who knows. I intend to buy some of them anyway :-) Andre On 02/29/2012 02:43 PM, Jones Beene wrote: Yikes - this is not OT at all. How can they do it for the price? This could kill a big chunk of the Pic and Arduino market for microcontrollers, with a few changes. Don't be surprised if your new Ni-H system is controlled by something similar. -Original Message- From: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson This might be of interest to some here as well! Tiny $35 Raspberry Pi computer causes big stir on launch day http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/29/tech/raspberry-pi-launch/index.html?hpt=hp_bn6 Excerpt: (CNN) -- The tiny $35 Raspberry Pi computer went on sale today, crashing its distributors' websites on the way to selling out within hours of launch.
[Vo]:Defkalion closes forum
http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4t=1278sid=5d586d1c2c35f0d82953353c6d922a99 Understandable on one side, however what did they expect with those actions which they took?... Wolf
[Vo]:Defkalion shutting down their forum .. again
http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6909#p6909 We are a private company with our own strategy. We believed in the operation of a forum in our website because LENR should be accessible by all. We aimed to counter many conspiracy theorists. Our goal was to stress that we would handle the commercialization of this technology with social responsibility. Throughout the lifespan of this forum we maintained minimum control, accepted negative comments openly, and provided a lot of technical and commercial information. The situation now is different in that our openness creates problems that can damage the success of this project. This technology has international implications in energy, politics and business. A large amount of knowledge, resources and nerve are required. Our company is capable in handling all of the above and will succeed in bringing this technology to the people. In order to achieve this, we must finalize the technology with certifications, fine-tune our products with licenses, and start mass production with blue prints for our partners. During these difficult months ahead, we see no need for the forum to exist. We do not need to provide answers, explanations or justifications for what, how and when we are doing something. We need to handle sensitive matters as opposed to manage publicity. In so doing, all activity on this forum shall be frozen. Regarding test results: We clearly stated in our announcement that test results may be published. It is impossible to know the communication policy held by each government Authority or indeed the selected internationally recognized and reputable scientific organization that we have accepted to conduct tests when they verify the existence and validity of LENR. Regarding being a scam: We are self financed. We have not borrowed from banks, individuals or governments. Our business plan ensures that licensees pay only after final verification of our end-product and our deliverables for production. Everything we have done is with our own money at our own risk. We have no responsibility to issue any information to anyone. Having said this, we have no intention to falsify, alter actual facts, or harm any persons. The only high stake losses are those encountered by us, no one else. Socrates once said that whenever people are deceived and form opinions wide of the truth, it is clear that the error has slid into their minds through the medium of certain resemblances to that truth. Defkalion is not responsible for people who read the internet's unverified sources, create impressions and new truths, eventually ending up in confusion. The information out there is a lot. It is information that has been created and at times even altered according to the author's aims. If there is any deception, it is out there. A fate regrettably encountered by Mr Rossi who did so much for LENR's publicity. Our responsibility is to produce a working prototype for humanity not to satisfy a few curious scientists, journalists, enthusiasts and skeptics. There will be plenty of room for constructive commentary on our final product. Until Defkalion Green Technologies has its product, we shall no longer get involved in the games and blogs of online media. Our next announcement in the coming months will be that of a successful and certified product. We thank those who supported our initiative, apologize to those who enjoyed the exchanges, and commit to all our honest intention to see this project succeed. Until further notice in the coming months, this forum shall remain inactive. DGT (lenr.qumbu.com -- analyzing the Rossi/Focardi eCat -- and the defkalion hyperion -- Hi, google!)
[Vo]:What are the Odds?
Of a catastrophic solar storm? Would you believe 12.5%? http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/02/massive-solar-flare/ Time to stock the root cellar. T
Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik)
I do not see how they have changed their test protocol. They did this just like they told to do, that is a twin test. I guess that they first thought to do it 2x24 hours, but 2x12 hours was find to be enough for the testing purpose, that was to demonstrate the cold fusion effect. Of course these kind of tests do not give information on long term performance. But anyway, we need to wait for the report if it is going to be published before April 1st, when all planned tests are finished. ―Jouni On 29 Feb 2012, at 19:52, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: Defkalion does not bother to explain why these tests differ significantly from those that were originally planned. It is ok to change plans, but without an explanation it makes their behaviour look suspicious. Similarly they never explained why the tests planned for last august never occured. IMO, this is bad PR on their part. Harry On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 9:53 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: Making tests- internal or with other parties is now a routine activity for DGT; tests can be of different duration and can differ by other parameters too. Till we have no data and other information, we cannot say what the tests show. The tests are done with and for people who will take decisions and have influence. If these people do not need or do not like publicity,our curiosity will suffer. Peter On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 4:39 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: So, each reaction merely last 12 hours and not 48 hours. 2 teams already, when we just expected only 1. *facepalm* This story gets worse and worse for DGT. 2012/2/29 Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com UPDATED (February 29): In an interview with New Technology, said Alexandros Xanthoulis that the test was conducted on 24 February and that it is not focused on security, as the product is ready for such tests. The focus instead was to show that the released heat energy from a Low Energy Nuclear Reaction and not from a chemical source. The test lasted for 24 hours and comprising both an empty and active site reactor changed after 12 hours. Xanthoulis also told that two of the seven international groups have already carried out their tests and that the final test is scheduled for late March. He did not know when or if the test results will be published. / End update /. http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=autotl=enjs=nprev=_thl=enie=UTF-8layout=2eotf=1u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nyteknik.se%2Fnyheter%2Fenergi_miljo%2Fenergi%2Farticle3419329.ece From: alain.sep...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 14:59:44 +0100 Subject: Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik) To: vortex-l@eskimo.com http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4t=1272p=6889#p6889 Defkalion disagree with that article: Nytechnik article is 100% wrong based on pure speculations of the journalist. We expect his response after a direct communication with him. DGT 2012/2/29 Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com Defkalion failed to make it clear on their forum that the government representatives have so far only evaluated the Hyperion's safety. Surely, they realize that most people interpreted their vague annoncement of positive results as positive measures of energy gain. Why do we have to learn through Mats Lewan what they really meant? Harry On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: The test was supposed to start on Friday 24 February, but according to sources of Ny Teknik it was initiated only after the weekend. The sources also said that the test was not focused on power or energy measurements but rather on safety. http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3419346.ece -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion shutting down their forum .. again
The situation now is different in that our openness creates problems that can damage the success of this project. That's BS. It's the lack of openness which has caused them problems. Reminds me of a certain political administration. T
RE: [Vo]:What are the Odds?
This is an important article, as is the research paper behind it. To date, little has been done to minimize the potential nuclear nightmare that could result from such a catastrophic solar storm. The Wired article totally omits that little recognized aspect. See 400 Chernobyls? and Dire Warnings - at www.aesopinstitute.org for an overview of a worst case scenario. Much can be done - if we are wise enough to do it. Decentralization of energy should be sharply accelerated. The positive economic impact would be substantial. With sufficient support, systems discussed on vortex might make a huge contribution. Mark Mark Goldes Co-founder, Chava Energy CEO, Aesop Institute 301A North Main Street Sebastopol, CA 95472 www.chavaenergy.com www.aesopinstitute.org 707 861-9070 707 497-3551 fax From: Terry Blanton [hohlr...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 12:39 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:What are the Odds? Of a catastrophic solar storm? Would you believe 12.5%? http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/02/massive-solar-flare/ Time to stock the root cellar. T
Re: [Vo]:What are the Odds?
On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Mark Goldes mgol...@chavaenergy.com wrote: Much can be done - if we are wise enough to do it. We aren't and we won't. Read the book: http://www.onesecondafter.com/ especially, the afterword. T
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion shutting down their forum .. again
From DGT: The situation now is different in that our openness creates problems that can damage the success of this project. ... Some may agree, and some may disagree with DGT's stated reasons for closing their forum. Personally, I'm surprised that DGT actually had a controversial forum of this nature up and running for as long as they had. Managing a forum of this nature struck me as an incredibly risky venture, a task that in the end becomes nearly impossible to control insofar as trying to maintain good PR is concerned. If I had been the CEO I wouldn't have authorized a forum of this nature, even though I know full well that it would have disappointed many, including myself. ...especially myself. I ask myself: Would Apple have allowed a controversial forum of this nature, a form that would have allowed Joe Public and all of his in-laws to argue incessantly over the so called merits (or the lack) of developing an iPhone iPad, particularly while the project was still under development? Granted, maybe Rossi DGT will turn out to be a scam operation, just as all the skeptics have been harping all along. I sincerely doubt it, but I must admit the fact that it is still a remote possibility. The way I see it, the fact that DGT decided to close their forum is no grounds, in my book, for suddenly feeling overly concerned. If anything, it suggests to me that DGT realizes they need to focus all their energies on the tasks-at-hand. It seems like every time there is another bump in the road certain skeptics point to the event as further proof that it's proof of scam operation. It can also cause certain believers fret and worry - endlessly. Why should DGT feel obligated to piss on the latest bonfire created by another rabid skeptic, or for that matter continue to assure hand wringing believers? Well... they don't! Chill out! Go get some authentic Greek Worry Beads! http://www.greekinternetmarket.com/worrybeads.php PS: I noticed that DGT continues to speak of Rossi in a reasonably respectful manner. Good business PR on their part. A mark of professionalism. My two cents. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:OT: $35 computer sells out on first day of launch
The funny thing is that Intel some years ago sold its own ARM design the Xscale because it was not profitable. I think that now that ARM is the most common CPU around, they are biting their own hands. ARM history is really interesting and shows how a very innovative technology can come close to extinction if the market is not yet ready. The greatest innovation of RISC and most notably ARM design is the much lower cost of development, and production, yet it had to wait something like 20 years to have its revenge. mic Il 29 febbraio 2012 20:08, Andre Blum andre_vor...@blums.nl ha scritto: The broadcom chip on there is of the kind that is in your iphone and other smartphones. They are SoC's (system-on-a-chip), meaning all peripherals are on the chip. If you look at the board you will see that there is almost no other glue, than just what is needed to go to the various connectors. The iphone and android success and the competition between them has made these chips really, really cheap. Also, the raspi foundation is a charity organization that intends to bring kids back to the commodore 64 spirit, and it does not care much for much margin. In fact, where you say that the Ni-H system can be controlled by something similar, you are spot on: the fusioncatalyst.org open source initiative that Bastiaan announced will use the beaglebone, which is a very similar device, and uses the same ARM CPU core. It is here on my desk, has tons of I/O pins and works great. The raspi is just a bit short on I/O pins, but, who knows. I intend to buy some of them anyway :-) Andre On 02/29/2012 02:43 PM, Jones Beene wrote: Yikes - this is not OT at all. How can they do it for the price? This could kill a big chunk of the Pic and Arduino market for microcontrollers, with a few changes. Don't be surprised if your new Ni-H system is controlled by something similar. -Original Message- From: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson This might be of interest to some here as well! Tiny $35 Raspberry Pi computer causes big stir on launch day http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/29/tech/raspberry-pi-launch/index.html?hpt=hp_bn6 Excerpt: (CNN) -- The tiny $35 Raspberry Pi computer went on sale today, crashing its distributors' websites on the way to selling out within hours of launch.
Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik)
Do not expect to see any data from these tests: Until Defkalion Green Technologies has its product, we shall no longer get involved in the games and blogs of online media. Our next announcement in the coming months will be that of a successful and certified product. http://defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4t=1278 Data is surely a part of these online games. 2012/2/29 Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com I do not see how they have changed their test protocol. They did this just like they told to do, that is a twin test. I guess that they first thought to do it 2x24 hours, but 2x12 hours was find to be enough for the testing purpose, that was to demonstrate the cold fusion effect. Of course these kind of tests do not give information on long term performance. But anyway, we need to wait for the report if it is going to be published before April 1st, when all planned tests are finished. --Jouni On 29 Feb 2012, at 19:52, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: Defkalion does not bother to explain why these tests differ significantly from those that were originally planned. It is ok to change plans, but without an explanation it makes their behaviour look suspicious. Similarly they never explained why the tests planned for last august never occured. IMO, this is bad PR on their part. Harry On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 9:53 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: Making tests- internal or with other parties is now a routine activity for DGT; tests can be of different duration and can differ by other parameters too. Till we have no data and other information, we cannot say what the tests show. The tests are done with and for people who will take decisions and have influence. If these people do not need or do not like publicity,our curiosity will suffer. Peter On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 4:39 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: So, each reaction merely last 12 hours and not 48 hours. 2 teams already, when we just expected only 1. *facepalm* This story gets worse and worse for DGT. 2012/2/29 Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com UPDATED (February 29): In an interview with New Technology, said Alexandros Xanthoulis that the test was conducted on 24 February and that it is not focused on security, as the product is ready for such tests. The focus instead was to show that the released heat energy from a Low Energy Nuclear Reaction and not from a chemical source. The test lasted for 24 hours and comprising both an empty and active site reactor changed after 12 hours. Xanthoulis also told that two of the seven international groups have already carried out their tests and that the final test is scheduled for late March. He did not know when or if the test results will be published. / End update /. http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=autotl=enjs=nprev=_thl=enie=UTF-8layout=2eotf=1u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nyteknik.se%2Fnyheter%2Fenergi_miljo%2Fenergi%2Farticle3419329.ece From: alain.sep...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 14:59:44 +0100 Subject: Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik) To: vortex-l@eskimo.com http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4t=1272p=6889#p6889 Defkalion disagree with that article: Nytechnik article is 100% wrong based on pure speculations of the journalist. We expect his response after a direct communication with him. DGT 2012/2/29 Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com Defkalion failed to make it clear on their forum that the government representatives have so far only evaluated the Hyperion's safety. Surely, they realize that most people interpreted their vague annoncement of positive results as positive measures of energy gain. Why do we have to learn through Mats Lewan what they really meant? Harry On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: The test was supposed to start on Friday 24 February, but according to sources of Ny Teknik it was initiated only after the weekend. The sources also said that the test was not focused on power or energy measurements but rather on safety. http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3419346.ece -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion shutting down their forum .. again
On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 4:37 PM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: Personally, I'm surprised that DGT actually had a controversial forum of this nature up and running for as long as they had. The odd thing is: it's not closed yet. I just posted a message. WTF? T
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion shutting down their forum .. again
Personally, I'm surprised that DGT actually had a controversial forum of this nature up and running for as long as they had. The odd thing is: it's not closed yet. I just posted a message. WTF? They must like you, Terry. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion shutting down their forum .. again
Von: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Gesendet: 22:37 Mittwoch, 29.Februar 2012 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:Defkalion shutting down their forum .. again Chill out! Go get some authentic Greek Worry Beads! My two cents. Reading the comments on their site for some time now, I must agree that most of the commenters there are detrimental to the goal. Childish, silly commenters, who cannot hold the water for a minute. This definitely is detrimental to their business, if there is one. I would be embarrassed too. So its a logical choice of self-respect and self-protection The 'free-energy-crowd' seems to me on the one side a deluded, childish lot on the one side, pathologically sceptic on the other side. Moderate, 'rational' sceptics and 'rational visionaries', so to say, are a rare minority. A pitiful situation.
[Vo]:very fast
I got this hate mail addressed to all people with an email address house.gov. I promptly reported it to homeland security. Within 10 minutes all traces of the mailing were removed from and in and old mail basket. I know not what happened next. Frank Z
RE: [Vo]:OT: $35 computer sells out on first day of launch
Andre, AB: the fusioncatalyst.org open source initiative that Bastiaan announced will use the beaglebone, which is a very similar device, and uses the same ARM CPU core. It is here on my desk, has tons of I/O pins and works great. Thanks for mentioning this again. I must have missed it the first time around. My only quibble with this important initiative and mission is the assumption of nuclear fusion which is prominently featured. Since this term has a precise meaning in physics, and yet it may not be indicative of the actual mechanism at play in whatever system emerges as the primary way to produce excess heat, it could be a mistake to feature it so prominently, IMO. Following Fuku, there is a lot of knee-jerk negativity towards anything that smacks of toxic radiation. There is close to zero independent evidence of gammas, neutrons, helium, tritium, 3He or any of the other indicia of hydrogen based fusion in ongoing operation of a device. Celani has made an anecdotal claim which may relate to startup only. Many of us suspect a new kind of quasi-nuclear reaction which will not be called fusion in the end. The terms quasi-nuclear or supra-chemical related to a mechanism where inner electron orbitals (as opposed to valence electrons) are involved (as in the Mössbauer effect) yet the ultimate energy source does relate to conversion of nuclear mass to energy, but in a way that does not usually involve significant gamma radiation. Real fusion cannot occur without substantial gamma radiation, and this cannot be shielded with a miniscule amount of lead. Anyway - other than that quibble, this is a very important initiative, and let's hope it gains momentum. Prior to hearing about the ‘beaglebone’ I was thinking about the Raspi as possibly a front-end for another similar sized board, which would have the I/O and other A/D parts and the relays needed to collect and control a fair number of inputs – temp, pressure, and so on. This would include the enigmatic RF generator, if this turns out to be an efficient way to stimulate the reaction. Jones attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion shutting down their forum .. again
Yes, I don't know why they had the forum in the first place. What are they expecting if they aren't willing to do an independent test? I didn't think the posts on the forum were that bad for any party. I didn't think the skepticism was unreasonable, but I did think running a forum was pretty much a waste of time. If all they are going to do is secret tests and delay another few months all the time, there is no use in following them any more. They may have a real device or they may not. They have no evidence at all at what they claim. I can say right now that I have a working cold fusion device in my garage, and it has been secretly tested by government officials, and I'd have the same credibility as they do. On Feb 29, 2012, at 3:37 PM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson wrote: From DGT: The situation now is different in that our openness creates problems that can damage the success of this project. ... Some may agree, and some may disagree with DGT's stated reasons for closing their forum. Personally, I'm surprised that DGT actually had a controversial forum of this nature up and running for as long as they had. Managing a forum of this nature struck me as an incredibly risky venture, a task that in the end becomes nearly impossible to control insofar as trying to maintain good PR is concerned. If I had been the CEO I wouldn't have authorized a forum of this nature, even though I know full well that it would have disappointed many, including myself. ...especially myself. I ask myself: Would Apple have allowed a controversial forum of this nature, a form that would have allowed Joe Public and all of his in-laws to argue incessantly over the so called merits (or the lack) of developing an iPhone iPad, particularly while the project was still under development? Granted, maybe Rossi DGT will turn out to be a scam operation, just as all the skeptics have been harping all along. I sincerely doubt it, but I must admit the fact that it is still a remote possibility. The way I see it, the fact that DGT decided to close their forum is no grounds, in my book, for suddenly feeling overly concerned. If anything, it suggests to me that DGT realizes they need to focus all their energies on the tasks-at-hand. It seems like every time there is another bump in the road certain skeptics point to the event as further proof that it's proof of scam operation. It can also cause certain believers fret and worry - endlessly. Why should DGT feel obligated to piss on the latest bonfire created by another rabid skeptic, or for that matter continue to assure hand wringing believers? Well... they don't! Chill out! Go get some authentic Greek Worry Beads! http://www.greekinternetmarket.com/worrybeads.php PS: I noticed that DGT continues to speak of Rossi in a reasonably respectful manner. Good business PR on their part. A mark of professionalism. My two cents. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik)
Von: Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Gesendet: 23:07 Mittwoch, 29.Februar 2012 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik) Do not expect to see any data from these tests: Until Defkalion Green Technologies has its product, we shall no longer get involved in the games and blogs of online media. Our next announcement in the coming months will be that of a successful and certified product. http://defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4t=1278 ### Daniel, sorry to say, but You seem to be one of the lot, who cannot hold the water. DGT did not make a substantial error up to now. Btw, my own projects often have delays and complications and modifications. That's the way it is. In a situation like DGK or Rossi You have to fight against a headwind of 99%, and the rest is a substantial lot of idiots, who cannot tell the difference between a hole and a substantial spot. In this case the 'data'-question is largely irrelevant. COP 20 can even detected by a else blind government-official. The DGK-issue can be settled by just waiting a month or two. So what is the REAL issue of the childish? To know it at the first minute, or what? Calm down.
Re: [Vo]:OT: $35 computer sells out on first day of launch
Von: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Gesendet: 0:10 Donnerstag, 1.März 2012 Betreff: RE: [Vo]:OT: $35 computer sells out on first day of launch Prior to hearing about the ‘beaglebone’ I was thinking about the Raspi as possibly a front-end for another similar sized board, which would have the I/O and other A/D parts and the relays needed to collect and control a fair number of inputs – temp, pressure, and so on. ... Jones ## Jones, I respect You, but here You are on the wrong track. This device is not intended to have any real-world-interfacing. It is located in a virtual world with only indirect interfacing to the r-w via USB. Look at olimexino and its relatives, how this is done. This is just 80MHz compared to the fancy 800MHz, but the difference is, that You talk to the 'world' (TM) with 80MHz, compared to 'Yourself ' (no TM) with 800MHz. So what is the difference, exactly?
RE: [Vo]:Defkalion shutting down their forum .. again
Every single alternative energy forum suffers from the same problem. An infestation by the establishment trolls foaming at the mouth and conducting themselves in the manor of a religious cult in their denouncement of ANYTHING that strays from scientific dogma. They will not let up in pushing their agenda on everyone. It's has so many parallels with religious fanatacism, but try explaining that to them - they are blinkered. Even the biggest of believers do not push their belief systems onto people with such determination.I've seen it on the Steorn forum, the EEStor forum, and now Defkalion.This place also came close also until Hody and co were told their services were no longer needed. They were flushed down the plughole and disappeared in a VORTEX (pun intended). Original Message Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defkalion shutting down their forum .. again From: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com Date: Thu, March 01, 2012 7:37 am To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From DGT: The situation now is different in that our openness creates problems that can damage the success of this project. ... Some may agree, and some may disagree with DGT's stated reasons for closing their forum. Personally, I'm surprised that DGT actually had a controversial forum of this nature up and running for as long as they had. Managing a forum of this nature struck me as an incredibly risky venture, a task that in the end becomes nearly impossible to control insofar as trying to maintain good PR is concerned. If I had been the CEO I wouldn't have authorized a forum of this nature, even though I know full well that it would have disappointed many, including myself. ...especially myself. I ask myself: Would Apple have allowed a controversial forum of this nature, a form that would have allowed Joe Public and all of his in-laws to argue incessantly over the so called merits (or the lack) of developing an iPhone iPad, particularly while the project was still under development? Granted, maybe Rossi DGT will turn out to be a scam operation, just as all the skeptics have been harping all along. I sincerely doubt it, but I must admit the fact that it is still a remote possibility. The way I see it, the fact that DGT decided to close their forum is no grounds, in my book, for suddenly feeling overly concerned. If anything, it suggests to me that DGT realizes they need to focus all their energies on the tasks-at-hand. It seems like every time there is another bump in the road certain skeptics point to the event as further proof that it's proof of scam operation. It can also cause certain believers fret and worry - endlessly. Why should DGT feel obligated to piss on the latest bonfire created by another rabid skeptic, or for that matter continue to assure hand wringing believers? Well... they don't! Chill out! Go get some authentic Greek Worry Beads! http://www.greekinternetmarket.com/worrybeads.php PS: I noticed that DGT continues to speak of Rossi in a reasonably respectful manner. Good business PR on their part. A mark of professionalism. My two cents. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Physice depends on choice of coordinates
Hi The wish and desire of having physics independent of coordinate system can not be met nor fulfilled. The Madelung constant is proof of this. It becomes divergent in spherical coordinates and convergent in cubic coordinate. Covariance can thus be forgotten. Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madelung_constant Are there any other examples of this effect where choice of coordinate system gives different values? David David Jonsson, Sweden, phone callto:+46703000370
RE: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik)
Defkalion have previously stated that the groups of testers were entirely free to publish their own results. Perhaps we will start to see announcemnts turn up online over the coming weeks/months. I don't think Defkalion will try to restrict them talking - if they did that would be a bad move. Original Message Subject: Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik) From: Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com Date: Thu, March 01, 2012 8:07 am To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Do notexpect to see any data from these tests:"Until Defkalion Green Technologies has its product, we shall no longer get involved in the games and blogs of online media. Our next announcement in the coming months will be that of a successful and certified product." http://defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4t=1278 Data is surely a part of these online games.2012/2/29 Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com I do not see how they have changed their test protocol. They did this just like they told to do, that is a twin test. I guess that they first thought to do it 2x24 hours, but 2x12 hours was find to be enough for the testing purpose, that was to demonstrate the cold fusion effect. Of course these kind of tests do not give information on long term performance. But anyway, we need to wait for the report if it is going to be published before April 1st, when all planned tests are finished. ―Jouni On 29 Feb 2012, at 19:52, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: Defkalion does not bother to explain why these tests differ significantly from those that were originally planned. It is ok to change plans, but without an explanation it makes their behaviour look suspicious. Similarly they never explained why the tests planned for last august never occured. IMO, this is bad PR on their part. Harry On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 9:53 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: Making tests- internal or with other parties is now a routine activity for DGT; tests can be of different duration and can differ by other parameters too. Till we have no data and other information, we cannot say what the tests show. The tests are done with and for people who will take decisions and have influence. If these people do not need or do not like publicity,our curiosity will suffer. Peter On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 4:39 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: So, each reaction merely last 12 hours and not 48 hours. 2 teams already, when we just expected only 1. *facepalm* This story gets worse and worse for DGT. 2012/2/29 Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com UPDATED (February 29): In an interview with New Technology, said Alexandros Xanthoulis that the test was conducted on 24 February and that it is not focused on security, as the product is ready for such tests. The focus instead was to show that the released heat energy from a "Low Energy Nuclear Reaction" and not from a chemical source. The test lasted for 24 hours and comprising both an empty and active site reactor changed after 12 hours. Xanthoulis also told that two of the seven international groups have already carried out their tests and that the final test is scheduled for late March. He did not know when or if the test results will be published. / End update /.http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=autotl=enjs=nprev=_thl=enie=UTF-8layout=2eotf=1u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nyteknik.se%2Fnyheter%2Fenergi_miljo%2Fenergi%2Farticle3419329.ece From: alain.sep...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 14:59:44 +0100 Subject: Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik) To: vortex-l@eskimo.com http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4t=1272p=6889#p6889 Defkalion disagree with that article: "Nytechnik article is 100% wrong based on pure speculations of the journalist. We expect his response after a direct communication with him. DGT" 2012/2/29 Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com Defkalion failed to make it clear on their forum that the government representatives have so far only evaluated the Hyperion's safety. Surely, they realize that most people interpreted their vague annoncement of "positive results" as "positive measures of energy gain". Why do we have to learn through Mats Lewan what they really meant? Harry On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 8:30 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: " The test was supposed to start on Friday 24 February, but according to sources of Ny Teknik it was initiated only after the weekend. The sources also said that the test was not focused on power or energy measurements but rather on safety." http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3419346.ece -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com-- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com-- Daniel Rocha - RJdanieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion shutting down their forum .. again
Von: Craig Brown cr...@overunity.co An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Gesendet: 0:37 Donnerstag, 1.März 2012 Betreff: RE: [Vo]:Defkalion shutting down their forum .. again They were flushed down the plughole and disappeared in a VORTEX (pun intended). So what do You want to say, exactly? That this is Popper's refuge of the unprovable? Just curious. BTW. Do You vote for Rick Santorum, the beacon of american -ahem- rationalism? Or where exactly is the hole You are hiding?
RE: [Vo]:OT: $35 computer sells out on first day of launch
Hi Günter, But the specs I saw mentioned Ethernet, which is a bit faster, but if not– do we really care about “real world” interfacing in this situation? It would seem that the ability to control a complex local mechanism at even 80 MHz for a fraction of the cost of previous state-of-the-art controllers, is something to get excited about, no? This device is not intended to have any real-world-interfacing. It is located in a virtual world with only indirect interfacing to the r-w via USB. Look at olimexino and its relatives, how this is done. This is just 80MHz compared to the fancy 800MHz, but the difference is, that You talk to the 'world' (TM) with 80MHz, compared to 'Yourself ' (no TM) with 800MHz. So what is the difference, exactly? attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik)
Von: Craig Brown cr...@overunity.co An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Gesendet: 0:42 Donnerstag, 1.März 2012 Betreff: RE: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik) ...if they did that would be a bad move. Ofcourse. But remember.: If somebody said, that the sun would not revolve around the earth, what would have been his fate? (eg here around me, 200m away: the biggest fusion-research-centre in Germany would collapse in an instant. So what would their opinion be? Thousands of jobs. Billions of funding. You guess.) The burden of proof is quite heavy, even if You state the obvious, right?
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion shutting down their forum .. again
The forum is more than a place to answer questions and make annoucements. If Defkalion listened carefully, the forum is telling them how to communicate more effectively with ALL their supporters, not just the adoring fans. The adoring fans and pathological skeptics always seem to roughly balance in numbers. However, they could raise an army of conditional supporters if they listened to them in earnest. harry On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 6:37 PM, Craig Brown cr...@overunity.co wrote: Every single alternative energy forum suffers from the same problem. An infestation by the establishment trolls foaming at the mouth and conducting themselves in the manor of a religious cult in their denouncement of ANYTHING that strays from scientific dogma. They will not let up in pushing their agenda on everyone. It's has so many parallels with religious fanatacism, but try explaining that to them - they are blinkered. Even the biggest of believers do not push their belief systems onto people with such determination. I've seen it on the Steorn forum, the EEStor forum, and now Defkalion. This place also came close also until Hody and co were told their services were no longer needed. They were flushed down the plughole and disappeared in a VORTEX (pun intended).
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion shutting down their forum .. again
It seems that the straw that broke the camel's back was a poster eluding to Defkalion/Praxen being a possible front organization for laundering money out of Greece. There were two or three posters that were not just acting like spoilt children, but making accusations that would make any potential licensee extremely wary. The forum required moderation, and I really thought they would have learned that lesson the first time they shut it down. Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: The forum is more than a place to answer questions and make annoucements. If Defkalion listened carefully, the forum is telling them how to communicate more effectively with ALL their supporters, not just the adoring fans. The adoring fans and pathological skeptics always seem to roughly balance in numbers. However, they could raise an army of conditional supporters if they listened to them in earnest. harry On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 6:37 PM, Craig Brown cr...@overunity.co wrote: Every single alternative energy forum suffers from the same problem. An infestation by the establishment trolls foaming at the mouth and conducting themselves in the manor of a religious cult in their denouncement of ANYTHING that strays from scientific dogma. They will not let up in pushing their agenda on everyone. It's has so many parallels with religious fanatacism, but try explaining that to them - they are blinkered. Even the biggest of believers do not push their belief systems onto people with such determination. I've seen it on the Steorn forum, the EEStor forum, and now Defkalion. This place also came close also until Hody and co were told their services were no longer needed. They were flushed down the plughole and disappeared in a VORTEX (pun intended).
Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik)
Hi Guenter -- your reply-to address is your own email address. On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Guenter Wildgruber gwildgru...@ymail.comwrote: DGT did not make a substantial error up to now. Btw, my own projects often have delays and complications and modifications. That's the way it is. In a situation like DGK or Rossi You have to fight against a headwind of 99%, and the rest is a substantial lot of idiots, who cannot tell the difference between a hole and a substantial spot. I agree with Defkalion that they are not obligated to continue to publicly discuss their progress. But from a PR perspective I think it's a gauche move to close their forum in this way. They've given skeptics additional credibility in calling the two main high-profile commercial LENR initiatives scams. Perhaps this will not affect Defkalion's own business plan since they're self-funded, but it could have ramifications for others who are interested in exploring the topic. It might have been preferable for Defkalion not to attempt to engage the public at all and to stay in stealth mode as long as possible. I can understand their learning about PR as they go. But with opinions so set against LENR in some mainstream scientific circles, here's to hoping that other initiatives will steer a steadier course in how they communicate to the public what they're doing. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Physice depends on choice of coordinates
I do not agree that the choice of coordinate systems changes the physics of any experiment. I only see the coordinate system chosen as a way to locate the position and other position derivatives of a body. Could you explain how the Madelung constant would relate to real world effects? Dave -Original Message- From: David Jonsson davidjonssonswe...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:42 pm Subject: [Vo]:Physice depends on choice of coordinates Hi The wish and desire of having physics independent of coordinate system can not be met nor fulfilled. The Madelung constant is proof of this. It becomes divergent in spherical coordinates and convergent in cubic coordinate. Covariance can thus be forgotten. Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madelung_constant Are there any other examples of this effect where choice of coordinate system gives different values? David David Jonsson, Sweden, phone callto:+46703000370
RE: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik)
Daniel: As DGT has stated SEVERAL times, is it up to the visiting entities, NOT DGT, to release test results!!! You are not reading things correctly.. perhaps because English is not your native language. Those entities, if they CHOOSE to release the results, will very likely do it via the mainstream media, and their own website, NOT DGT's website. Thus, the closing down of the DGT forum will not make any difference as to whether data is publicly released. -Mark From: Daniel Rocha [mailto:danieldi...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 2:07 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik) Do not expect to see any data from these tests: Until Defkalion Green Technologies has its product, we shall no longer get involved in the games and blogs of online media. Our next announcement in the coming months will be that of a successful and certified product. http://defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4 http://defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4t=1278 t=1278 Data is surely a part of these online games.
[Vo]:FYI: faster than a speeding electron... how fast is that??? Radar gun for electron flow...
Just some interesting science. http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-02-electron-detection-breakthrough-unleash- next-generation-technologies.html The researchers discovered that by shining light from a high-power laser onto a material that contains moving electrons, light of a different color is generated. They looked at thin crystals of gallium arsenide - a material commonly used in high-speed electronics and photonics. By applying a voltage across the crystal, they set electrons to move through it with a specified speed. By illuminating the crystal with an infrared laser pulse, invisible to human eyes, they found that visible red light was produced - a signature of the second-harmonic generation process. Additionally, they observed that the brightness of the red-light scales with the speed of electrons. When the electrons have no directional motion, no red light comes out. By detecting the red light, one can accurately determine the speed of electrons without making any contact with the sample and without disturbing the electrons, Zhao said. -Mark
Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik)
DGT may not owe us anything, but I don't owe them anything either. Defkalion has shown us nothing, and Rossi just had some demos that he was in complete control of. I don't owe them any patience, though I will still wait until March 31. If nothing happens by then, there is no reason for me to pay any more attention to this. Maybe it's just me, but if I was in Defkalion's position, I'd get independent verification as soon as possible. They should get plenty of money through awards and licenses if they sell the product to a large company. Everyday, the world is wasting billions of dollars and millions of people are dying unnecessarily. Just the discovery of an LENR device that produces useful energy output would end this waste immediately. Does it really make a difference if you are making a billion dollars in a world where basically everything is free? I would be happy enough knowing I helped every single person on the planet, and I wouldn't care much about the money. I'm not big into conspiracy theories. Oil companies would probably just switch to something dealing with LENR and make more money than before. If you're a scientist, it would create tons of good paying jobs, and you are at the forefront in an exciting new era of civilization. On Feb 29, 2012, at 9:46 PM, Eric Walker wrote: Hi Guenter -- your reply-to address is your own email address. On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Guenter Wildgruber gwildgru...@ymail.com wrote: DGT did not make a substantial error up to now. Btw, my own projects often have delays and complications and modifications. That's the way it is. In a situation like DGK or Rossi You have to fight against a headwind of 99%, and the rest is a substantial lot of idiots, who cannot tell the difference between a hole and a substantial spot. I agree with Defkalion that they are not obligated to continue to publicly discuss their progress. But from a PR perspective I think it's a gauche move to close their forum in this way. They've given skeptics additional credibility in calling the two main high-profile commercial LENR initiatives scams. Perhaps this will not affect Defkalion's own business plan since they're self-funded, but it could have ramifications for others who are interested in exploring the topic. It might have been preferable for Defkalion not to attempt to engage the public at all and to stay in stealth mode as long as possible. I can understand their learning about PR as they go. But with opinions so set against LENR in some mainstream scientific circles, here's to hoping that other initiatives will steer a steadier course in how they communicate to the public what they're doing. Eric
Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik)
What if DGT didn't have any tests? We'll never get results because these visiting entities might not even exist. Why can't DGT release the test results without the entities, but just don't mention who the entities are? This doesn't prove they have anything, but it's a start, and there is no reason not to. On Feb 29, 2012, at 11:02 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint wrote: Daniel: As DGT has stated SEVERAL times, is it up to the visiting entities, NOT DGT, to release test results!!! You are not reading things correctly.. perhaps because English is not your native language. Those entities, if they CHOOSE to release the results, will very likely do it via the mainstream media, and their own website, NOT DGT’s website. Thus, the closing down of the DGT forum will not make any difference as to whether data is publicly released… -Mark From: Daniel Rocha [mailto:danieldi...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 2:07 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik) Do not expect to see any data from these tests: Until Defkalion Green Technologies has its product, we shall no longer get involved in the games and blogs of online media. Our next announcement in the coming months will be that of a successful and certified product. http://defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4t=1278 Data is surely a part of these online games.
Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik)
You are in such a hurry. I will wait until Oct30th. I chose this date last year, for a 3rd party confirmation of a working product, because it is close to AR`s 1MW test. I will apply the same date to DGT. 2012/3/1 Jarold McWilliams oldja...@hotmail.com DGT may not owe us anything, but I don't owe them anything either. Defkalion has shown us nothing, and Rossi just had some demos that he was in complete control of. I don't owe them any patience, though I will still wait until March 31. If nothing happens by then, there is no reason for me to pay any more attention to this. Maybe it's just me, but if I was in Defkalion's position, I'd get independent verification as soon as possible. They should get plenty of money through awards and licenses if they sell the product to a large company. Everyday, the world is wasting billions of dollars and millions of people are dying unnecessarily. Just the discovery of an LENR device that produces useful energy output would end this waste immediately. Does it really make a difference if you are making a billion dollars in a world where basically everything is free? I would be happy enough knowing I helped every single person on the planet, and I wouldn't care much about the money. I'm not big into conspiracy theories. Oil companies would probably just switch to something dealing with LENR and make more money than before. If you're a scientist, it would create tons of good paying jobs, and you are at the forefront in an exciting new era of civilization. On Feb 29, 2012, at 9:46 PM, Eric Walker wrote: Hi Guenter -- your reply-to address is your own email address. On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Guenter Wildgruber gwildgru...@ymail.com wrote: DGT did not make a substantial error up to now. Btw, my own projects often have delays and complications and modifications. That's the way it is. In a situation like DGK or Rossi You have to fight against a headwind of 99%, and the rest is a substantial lot of idiots, who cannot tell the difference between a hole and a substantial spot. I agree with Defkalion that they are not obligated to continue to publicly discuss their progress. But from a PR perspective I think it's a gauche move to close their forum in this way. They've given skeptics additional credibility in calling the two main high-profile commercial LENR initiatives scams. Perhaps this will not affect Defkalion's own business plan since they're self-funded, but it could have ramifications for others who are interested in exploring the topic. It might have been preferable for Defkalion not to attempt to engage the public at all and to stay in stealth mode as long as possible. I can understand their learning about PR as they go. But with opinions so set against LENR in some mainstream scientific circles, here's to hoping that other initiatives will steer a steadier course in how they communicate to the public what they're doing. Eric -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik)
Whatever. Defkalion and Rossi themselves said they would have independent verification by the end of March. On Feb 29, 2012, at 11:18 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote: You are in such a hurry. I will wait until Oct30th. I chose this date last year, for a 3rd party confirmation of a working product, because it is close to AR`s 1MW test. I will apply the same date to DGT. 2012/3/1 Jarold McWilliams oldja...@hotmail.com DGT may not owe us anything, but I don't owe them anything either. Defkalion has shown us nothing, and Rossi just had some demos that he was in complete control of. I don't owe them any patience, though I will still wait until March 31. If nothing happens by then, there is no reason for me to pay any more attention to this. Maybe it's just me, but if I was in Defkalion's position, I'd get independent verification as soon as possible. They should get plenty of money through awards and licenses if they sell the product to a large company. Everyday, the world is wasting billions of dollars and millions of people are dying unnecessarily. Just the discovery of an LENR device that produces useful energy output would end this waste immediately. Does it really make a difference if you are making a billion dollars in a world where basically everything is free? I would be happy enough knowing I helped every single person on the planet, and I wouldn't care much about the money. I'm not big into conspiracy theories. Oil companies would probably just switch to something dealing with LENR and make more money than before. If you're a scientist, it would create tons of good paying jobs, and you are at the forefront in an exciting new era of civilization. On Feb 29, 2012, at 9:46 PM, Eric Walker wrote: Hi Guenter -- your reply-to address is your own email address. On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Guenter Wildgruber gwildgru...@ymail.com wrote: DGT did not make a substantial error up to now. Btw, my own projects often have delays and complications and modifications. That's the way it is. In a situation like DGK or Rossi You have to fight against a headwind of 99%, and the rest is a substantial lot of idiots, who cannot tell the difference between a hole and a substantial spot. I agree with Defkalion that they are not obligated to continue to publicly discuss their progress. But from a PR perspective I think it's a gauche move to close their forum in this way. They've given skeptics additional credibility in calling the two main high-profile commercial LENR initiatives scams. Perhaps this will not affect Defkalion's own business plan since they're self-funded, but it could have ramifications for others who are interested in exploring the topic. It might have been preferable for Defkalion not to attempt to engage the public at all and to stay in stealth mode as long as possible. I can understand their learning about PR as they go. But with opinions so set against LENR in some mainstream scientific circles, here's to hoping that other initiatives will steer a steadier course in how they communicate to the public what they're doing. Eric -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik)
If Dick Smith had not been such an ignorant jerk and had not turned down Defkalion's fair offer, he would have been one of the independent entities in testing Hyperions. Of course it is plausible, that losing $one million had been such a shock, that he would have hidden the results in shame and never publish them... ―Jouni On 1 Mar 2012, at 07:16, Jarold McWilliams oldja...@hotmail.com wrote: What if DGT didn't have any tests? We'll never get results because these visiting entities might not even exist. Why can't DGT release the test results without the entities, but just don't mention who the entities are? This doesn't prove they have anything, but it's a start, and there is no reason not to. On Feb 29, 2012, at 11:02 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint wrote: Daniel: As DGT has stated SEVERAL times, is it up to the visiting entities, NOT DGT, to release test results!!! You are not reading things correctly.. perhaps because English is not your native language. Those entities, if they CHOOSE to release the results, will very likely do it via the mainstream media, and their own website, NOT DGT’s website. Thus, the closing down of the DGT forum will not make any difference as to whether data is publicly released… -Mark From: Daniel Rocha [mailto:danieldi...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 2:07 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:DGT's 1st test did not test power, just safety (NyTeknik) Do not expect to see any data from these tests: Until Defkalion Green Technologies has its product, we shall no longer get involved in the games and blogs of online media. Our next announcement in the coming months will be that of a successful and certified product. http://defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4t=1278 Data is surely a part of these online games.
Re: [Vo]:Tungsten?
yes it is ited in many larsen slkides as one of the key experiment. tungsten was seen vaporized in an unusual way when LENR signas were seen. http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/WL/slides/2009June25LatticeEnergySlides.pdf eg page 59, but many other (including exploding wires) 2012/2/29 Mark Goldes mgol...@chavaenergy.com 4) If I remember correctly, Tungsten has been used in other cold fusion systems.
