Re: [Vo]:Help the history of cold fusion

[CB Sites]

Way back in the 1990-94 period I had a number of words with Douglas
Morrison of CERN, Frack Close (Too Hot to Handle), Richard (Dick) Blue (Oak
ridge).   You can find some of the old discussions in google groups; search
'sci.physics.fusion chuck sites morrison' for a nice heated exchange
between Morrison and I.   Of course Jed, and Michael Swartz also are there
in that period of time, and can be found the same way.It's kind of fun.
I even see something called, "The Russ George Experiment" for 2000.

I have a request of fellow Vorts, that is will you please contribute your
recollections and references as to the attacks on cold fusion over the
years. I will organize this into a Who’s Who of the trolls in this field.
There is a case to be made that the world would have been spared an
incredible amount of grief and destruction if the dedicated attacks against
cold fusion had not been so successfully waged and still are.



Please just post a note, hopefully with a link to and specific reference
info, here in the Vortex. Think of it as a ‘crowd history’ research project!



Thanks

Re: [Vo]:Help the history of cold fusion

[CB Sites]

Way back in the 1990-94 period I had a number of words with Douglas
Morrison of CERN, Frack Close (Too Hot to Handle), Richard (Dick) Blue (Oak
ridge).   You can find some of the old discussions in google groups; search
'sci.physics.fusion chuck sites morrison' for a nice heated exchange
between Morrison and I.   Of course Jed, and Michael Swartz also are there
in that period of time, and can be found the same way.It's kind of fun.
I even see something called, "The Russ George Experiment" in
sci.physics.fusion circa 2000.   Anyway, those were some of the early ones
I recall.


On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Russ George  wrote:

> I have a request of fellow Vorts, that is will you please contribute your
> recollections and references as to the attacks on cold fusion over the
> years. I will organize this into a Who’s Who of the trolls in this field.
> There is a case to be made that the world would have been spared an
> incredible amount of grief and destruction if the dedicated attacks against
> cold fusion had not been so successfully waged and still are.
>
>
>
> Please just post a note, hopefully with a link to and specific reference
> info, here in the Vortex. Think of it as a ‘crowd history’ research project!
>
>
>
> Thanks
>

[Vo]:Help the history of cold fusion

[Russ George]

I have a request of fellow Vorts, that is will you please contribute your 
recollections and references as to the attacks on cold fusion over the years. I 
will organize this into a Who’s Who of the trolls in this field. There is a 
case to be made that the world would have been spared an incredible amount of 
grief and destruction if the dedicated attacks against cold fusion had not been 
so successfully waged and still are. 

 

Please just post a note, hopefully with a link to and specific reference info, 
here in the Vortex. Think of it as a ‘crowd history’ research project!

 

Thanks 

[Vo]:help

[Frank G.]

Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat

[Aussie Guy E-Cat]

I have always been a Black Box kind of guy and approached problem 
solving in a binary divide and conquer approach. That way you make 
little assumptions and just go with what the test data shows as the 
incorrect or correct pathway.


I fully expect to sign a NDA and to put money into an Escrow account 
when we agree on the test protocols for the initial E-Cat test and for 
the final plant test. Under those conditions Rossi should agree to any 
test I ask for as when I take delivery I can do anything that I like in 
the way of testing. I'm under no illusions as to what I may find as I 
100% know this is a heavy work in progress product. Just look at the 
E-Cats inside the container to those on the roof. Here I assume the roof 
top mounted units are a later build as they appear to have a different 
tubing and wiring connection system than the internal units, which were 
installed earlier. I expect the current E-Cat module build is different 
to any we have seen. One thing you can say about Rossi is he does not 
spend much time sitting in his chair.


Well stirred buckets of water and long glass thermometers work well. 
Then diving into the digital pool, my digital scope does area under the 
square power measurements. I'll also be checking earth currents to be 
sure there are no injected currents happening there as well as 
monitoring the Frequencies. Sure this will all be under NDA, but I 
have every right as a customer with money in a Escrow account to do 
every test I deem necessary. I can assure you, when the 100 kW plant 
arrives in OZ, even more testing will be done as I'm sure Rossi knows 
will happen.


What I can report I will but I do respect NDAs and Commercial in 
Confidence arrangements.


AG


On 11/20/2011 6:19 PM, Robert Leguillon wrote:

The critical point is to properly treat it as a black box.  Don't get 
distracted with E-Cat temperature, pressure, etc. You can take additional data points, 
but don't rely on any measurements taken from INSIDE Rossi's system.
What you NEED:
You need good-and-proper input power measurements (logged voltage and a 
thru-line ammeter, if possible), secondary water flow, and higher secondary 
delta T (again, I'd use bucket-diversions to double-check your thermocouples).
If you get those data points reliably, then you just need sufficient time to 
rule out chemical energy. If you have a choice, test it in a driven mode, 
without any of the self-sustaining B.S.

I sincerely wish you the best, but I'd wager good money that he would not allow 
such definitive testing. Let us know what you find out.

Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat

[Mary Yugo]

I'm with Robert L.  I don't think you will ever be offered a test.  But if
you are, I'll be happy to talk with you by phone and make very detailed
suggestions for making sure your tests are valid --if you'd like.

The first and foremost suggestion is to allow Rossi to supply NOTHING
except the E-cat and maybe the frequency generator whatever that is--
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.  I can't emphasize that too much.

You will need to plan for your own power supply (Rossi to supply
specifications), power input measuring equipment, coolant circuit -- keep
it liquid-- no steam, no heat exchanger-- and all your own flow meters and
temperature measuring devices. More details if you actually get a scheduled
appointment for the test-- as much detail as you need.  YOU not Rossi will
need to decide how long to run and you will need enough people to make sure
it goes several days or more.

I was tempted to do this myself (order a 100 kW machine) but I don't really
need to tie up $200K for a long time and I don't think Rossi is really
selling the E-cats.

One interesting detail -- what is the frequencies device and who provides
that but it doesn't matter where that comes from as long as you check
what's in it, and most of all, it's electrical power consumption.

Good going.  I hope you get an E-cat.  I doubt that you will.

Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat

[Aussie Guy E-Cat]

Amazing statements. Again with no basis in fact. Just more straw man 
totally negative spin stuff. I've been a power system engineer for 
probably longer than you have been alive. I do know how to construct a 
test of the E-Cat. I have also been used by several patent attorneys and 
investor groups around Australia to devise tests for OU devices, which I 
should add the inventors never agreed to.


What information I can share as I move through the process I will share. 
However that is not the intent of the process. My intent is to make 
money from the E-Cat.


AG


On 11/20/2011 6:59 PM, Mary Yugo wrote:
I'm with Robert L.  I don't think you will ever be offered a test.  
But if you are, I'll be happy to talk with you by phone and make very 
detailed suggestions for making sure your tests are valid --if you'd 
like.


The first and foremost suggestion is to allow Rossi to supply NOTHING 
except the E-cat and maybe the frequency generator whatever that is-- 
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.  I can't emphasize that too much.


You will need to plan for your own power supply (Rossi to supply 
specifications), power input measuring equipment, coolant circuit -- 
keep it liquid-- no steam, no heat exchanger-- and all your own flow 
meters and temperature measuring devices. More details if you actually 
get a scheduled appointment for the test-- as much detail as you 
need.  YOU not Rossi will need to decide how long to run and you will 
need enough people to make sure it goes several days or more.


I was tempted to do this myself (order a 100 kW machine) but I don't 
really need to tie up $200K for a long time and I don't think Rossi is 
really selling the E-cats.


One interesting detail -- what is the frequencies device and who 
provides that but it doesn't matter where that comes from as long as 
you check what's in it, and most of all, it's electrical power 
consumption.


Good going.  I hope you get an E-cat.  I doubt that you will.

Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat

[Peter Heckert]

Am 20.11.2011 09:47, schrieb Aussie Guy E-Cat:
Amazing statements. Again with no basis in fact. Just more straw man 
totally negative spin stuff. I've been a power system engineer for 
probably longer than you have been alive. I do know how to construct a 
test of the E-Cat. I have also been used by several patent attorneys 
and investor groups around Australia to devise tests for OU devices, 
which I should add the inventors never agreed to.


What information I can share as I move through the process I will 
share. However that is not the intent of the process. My intent is to 
make money from the E-Cat.
Remember Henry Ford. He had the philosophy that making money is second 
priority.

First make a working product.
Then sell it and make money.

Possibly contact Defkalion. They write they will accept all tests 
demanded by the customer.
With their current announcements, if true, the investment into Rossis 
technology could be a mistake, because he shows no willingness to do 
conclusive testing or cooperation on the technical aspects.


Peter

Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat

[Aussie Guy E-Cat]

A working and reliable product with back-up and support is everything. 
I'm a Black Box kind of guy who has been a engineer long enough to know 
that both devices are very early stage work in progress. I don't expect 
to see what I would see if I visited ABB or GE. Have opened up a channel 
to Defkalion.


This could be a good match with a diathermic oil based LENR heat 
generator: 
http://www.ge-energy.com/products_and_services/services/oil_and_gas_services/oregen.jsp


AG


On 11/20/2011 10:26 PM, Peter Heckert wrote:

Am 20.11.2011 09:47, schrieb Aussie Guy E-Cat:
Amazing statements. Again with no basis in fact. Just more straw man 
totally negative spin stuff. I've been a power system engineer for 
probably longer than you have been alive. I do know how to construct 
a test of the E-Cat. I have also been used by several patent 
attorneys and investor groups around Australia to devise tests for OU 
devices, which I should add the inventors never agreed to.


What information I can share as I move through the process I will 
share. However that is not the intent of the process. My intent is to 
make money from the E-Cat.
Remember Henry Ford. He had the philosophy that making money is second 
priority.

First make a working product.
Then sell it and make money.

Possibly contact Defkalion. They write they will accept all tests 
demanded by the customer.
With their current announcements, if true, the investment into Rossis 
technology could be a mistake, because he shows no willingness to do 
conclusive testing or cooperation on the technical aspects.


Peter

Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat

[David Roberson]

I look forward to seeing your postings when you return.  You are being cautious 
as you should by relying upon the escrow account and
Rossi is wise in proposing this procedure.  There should be no major surprises. 
 My concern is that the control electronics may not
quite be up to par yet, but I think you are capable of determining its status 
quickly.

Dave



-Original Message-
From: Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, Nov 20, 2011 2:11 am
Subject: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat


I have just emailed Rossi with my interest in purchasing a 100 kW E-Cat 
lant. I do thank Vortex members (on the forum and privately) for 
roviding the behind the scenes insight into the history of LENR that 
elped to make this decision happen. My bags are ready to be packed, 
unds locked down and I'm ready to fly to Bologna to see and test a 
-Cat reactor. What I didn't know or were a bit rusty about in measuring 
 E-Cat has been provided by the excellent Vortex forum.
My intention is to pay the funds into a Escrow account, request a test 
f a single E-Cat and if that is found to be OK, to proceed to pre 
elivery testing the 100 kW plant. Failure of either test to meet a min 
OP 6 result would trigger the return of all my Escrowed funds.
I would appreciate suggestions as to the necessary equipment (manuf and 
odel) you would suggest I would need to make the initial single E-Cat 
est measurements. I do have many thermocouples and DVMs with temp 
anges but no flow meters. Does anybody know the manuf and model of the 
eat exchanger used in the 6 Oct demo as I plan to use that setup to do 
he delta T measurements. I do plan on taking a 16 channel data logger 
nd digital oscilloscope (both battery powered) to check the input 
nergy in ALL the wires going into the E-Cat.
 From what I have read here, the 2 temp probes should be inserted 
hrough the wall of the water hose feeding the heat exchanges enough so 
hey are approx central to the water flow, while not touching the inside 
all of the water hose and likewise for the outlet water hose. Is a  45 
eg insertion angle acceptable?
AG

Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat

[David Roberson]

Those are excellent suggestions.  One consideration about the flow rate.  Since 
you are ordering and I presume testing a 100 kW system, the delta temperature
will be many times larger than the one tested on October 6 at the rate used 
then.  I suggest that it would be wise to set the output flow rate to achieve a 
delta temperature 
of say 20 to 30 C as the target.  We can assist you in determining the flow 
rate that should accomplish that goal ahead of time if you like.

Also, which power rating are you ordering from Rossi?  Is it the driven level 
or the self sustaining one?

Dave



-Original Message-
From: Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, Nov 20, 2011 2:24 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat


For the secondary water flow, use a lower flow rate, creating a higher delta T. 
hen, the output flow can be diverted into any basin (and periodically emptied), 
ith the temperature measured there. You could use a thermocouple inside of the 
nput water flow for measure, but keep a disconnect in the line to double-check 
by emptying some into a basin as well)
Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote:
I have just emailed Rossi with my interest in purchasing a 100 kW E-Cat 
plant. I do thank Vortex members (on the forum and privately) for 
providing the behind the scenes insight into the history of LENR that 
helped to make this decision happen. My bags are ready to be packed, 
funds locked down and I'm ready to fly to Bologna to see and test a 
E-Cat reactor. What I didn't know or were a bit rusty about in measuring 
a E-Cat has been provided by the excellent Vortex forum.

My intention is to pay the funds into a Escrow account, request a test 
of a single E-Cat and if that is found to be OK, to proceed to pre 
delivery testing the 100 kW plant. Failure of either test to meet a min 
COP 6 result would trigger the return of all my Escrowed funds.

I would appreciate suggestions as to the necessary equipment (manuf and 
model) you would suggest I would need to make the initial single E-Cat 
test measurements. I do have many thermocouples and DVMs with temp 
ranges but no flow meters. Does anybody know the manuf and model of the 
heat exchanger used in the 6 Oct demo as I plan to use that setup to do 
the delta T measurements. I do plan on taking a 16 channel data logger 
and digital oscilloscope (both battery powered) to check the input 
energy in ALL the wires going into the E-Cat.

 From what I have read here, the 2 temp probes should be inserted 
through the wall of the water hose feeding the heat exchanges enough so 
they are approx central to the water flow, while not touching the inside 
wall of the water hose and likewise for the outlet water hose. Is a  45 
deg insertion angle acceptable?

AG

Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat

[Jeff Sutton]

I wish you the best in your efforts.  Is it confirmed yet?
Personally I think Rossi has moved LENR ahead and has something very
exciting, but not yet ready for prime time.  (I am excited
by defkalion-energy's statements and I suspect they have moved Rossi's
invention even farther.)

You clearly know how to test something such as this and I cannot add
expertise in this regard.  However, from a logic point of view, please
consider testing 3 domains.

   - Startup:  I amazed that Rossi can get his e-cat started on demand,
   even if there is sometime seemingly delays.   So is there some sort of
   protocol or is it just get things up to temperature and wait and hope?
   - Operation:  clearly a longer term test measuring input energy versus
   output is all that is needed (a black box) and ignoring some of the
   silliness regarding blanks.  (I think the non self sustained is a better
   approach as it implies more control and longer term)
   - Control:  The frequency generator seems to be a latecomer to his
   invention, but in any case, if Rossi can actually control the reation rate
   this changes the worl immediately.  Wow!

If you can get in the door and verify this, you will be Rossi's savior as
he is blowing the business end big time.

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 11:11 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:

 I look forward to seeing your postings when you return.  You are being
 cautious as you should by relying upon the escrow account and
 Rossi is wise in proposing this procedure.  There should be no major
 surprises.  My concern is that the control electronics may not
 quite be up to par yet, but I think you are capable of determining its
 status quickly.

 Dave


  -Original Message-
 From: Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com
 To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
 Sent: Sun, Nov 20, 2011 2:11 am
 Subject: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat

 I have just emailed Rossi with my interest in purchasing a 100 kW E-Cat
 plant. I do thank Vortex members (on the forum and privately) for
 providing the behind the scenes insight into the history of LENR that
 helped to make this decision happen. My bags are ready to be packed,
 funds locked down and I'm ready to fly to Bologna to see and test a
 E-Cat reactor. What I didn't know or were a bit rusty about in measuring
 a E-Cat has been provided by the excellent Vortex forum.

 My intention is to pay the funds into a Escrow account, request a test
 of a single E-Cat and if that is found to be OK, to proceed to pre
 delivery testing the 100 kW plant. Failure of either test to meet a min
 COP 6 result would trigger the return of all my Escrowed funds.

 I would appreciate suggestions as to the necessary equipment (manuf and
 model) you would suggest I would need to make the initial single E-Cat
 test measurements. I do have many thermocouples and DVMs with temp
 ranges but no flow meters. Does anybody know the manuf and model of the
 heat exchanger used in the 6 Oct demo as I plan to use that setup to do
 the delta T measurements. I do plan on taking a 16 channel data logger
 and digital oscilloscope (both battery powered) to check the input
 energy in ALL the wires going into the E-Cat.

  From what I have read here, the 2 temp probes should be inserted
 through the wall of the water hose feeding the heat exchanges enough so
 they are approx central to the water flow, while not touching the inside
 wall of the water hose and likewise for the outlet water hose. Is a  45
 deg insertion angle acceptable?

 AG

Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2011-11-20 08:08, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:

I have just emailed Rossi with my interest in purchasing a 100 kW E-Cat
plant. [...]


Just to be clearer: have you only asked Rossi that you're interested in 
purchasing an E-Cat plant, or has he already replied back and agreed for 
a meeting?


Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat

[Aussie Guy E-Cat]

COP 6 powered mode. The first test I will request is of a single E-Cat 
module and then when the 100 kW plant is ready to roll out, return to do 
another test. I expect to learn a lot in the first test and will be 
better able to tailor the 100 kW test protocol. We are on the same page 
with the 25 deg C delta T for the first single E-Cat test. Hard to cock 
that up. Well lets hope so. The 100 kW test plant will be using 
diathermic oil, so we will fab up a recycling system with a similar, 
flow load wise, heat exchanger that we will use in Oz.


AG


On 11/21/2011 2:53 AM, David Roberson wrote:
Those are excellent suggestions.  One consideration about the flow 
rate.  Since you are ordering and I presume testing a 100 kW system, 
the delta temperature
will be many times larger than the one tested on October 6 at the rate 
used then.  I suggest that it would be wise to set the output flow 
rate to achieve a delta temperature
of say 20 to 30 C as the target.  We can assist you in determining the 
flow rate that should accomplish that goal ahead of time if you like.
Also, which power rating are you ordering from Rossi?  Is it the 
driven level or the self sustaining one?

Dave

Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat

[Mary Yugo]

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 8:52 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote:

 COP 6 powered mode. The first test I will request is of a single E-Cat
 module and then when the 100 kW plant is ready to roll out, return to do
 another test. I expect to learn a lot in the first test and will be better
 able to tailor the 100 kW test protocol. We are on the same page with the
 25 deg C delta T for the first single E-Cat test. Hard to cock that up.
 Well lets hope so. The 100 kW test plant will be using diathermic oil, so
 we will fab up a recycling system with a similar, flow load wise, heat
 exchanger that we will use in Oz.



On your test of the single module, if you use Rossi's October 6 setup to
measure, how do you plan to make sure the measurements you acquire from the
heat exchanger reflect the enthalpy accurately and are not due to such
things as errors in thermocouple placement?

And do you recall what NASA's Michael A. Nelson, quoted in Krivit's blog
via an FOI request, said?  It was that you should test an ottoman sized
(Oct 6) device for 2 or more weeks (with a substantial sustained output of
excess power) to rule out stored or chemical energy from conventional
fuels.  I think that's a bit pessimistic but I also think 24 hours is
probably not long enough.  Here's the link to the (I think official) NASA
slide:
http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/11/10/nasa-engineer-explains-why-rossi-demos-failed/

As for what you say of your credentials and considering how you view all of
this, I'd respond that I find it scary.  But that's another issue
entirely.  I think your asking to buy an E-cat is a really good idea and I
wish you the best of good luck in getting a test soon.  Of course, I don't
think you will.

Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat

[Aussie Guy E-Cat]

As I stated, I have sent an introductory and request to purchase a 100 
kW plant email to i...@leonardocorp1996.com with details of the existing 
business structure and the proposed business model. I expect it will 
take several days to get an initial reply and to start the NDA / 
contract / agreed test conditions, etc negotiations. Oz just about 
totally shuts down over Christmas and New Years for at least 2 weeks. It 
is our summer break and no one is at work. So I expect I'm pushing it up 
a steep hill to expect to get over to Bologna before Christmas. But I 
may get lucky.


AG


On 11/21/2011 3:06 AM, Akira Shirakawa wrote:

On 2011-11-20 08:08, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:

I have just emailed Rossi with my interest in purchasing a 100 kW E-Cat
plant. [...]


Just to be clearer: have you only asked Rossi that you're interested 
in purchasing an E-Cat plant, or has he already replied back and 
agreed for a meeting?


Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat

[Mary Yugo]

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote:

 As I stated, I have sent an introductory and request to purchase a 100 kW
 plant email to i...@leonardocorp1996.com with details of the existing
 business structure and the proposed business model. I expect it will take
 several days to get an initial reply and to start the NDA / contract /
 agreed test conditions, etc negotiations. Oz just about totally shuts down
 over Christmas and New Years for at least 2 weeks. It is our summer break
 and no one is at work. So I expect I'm pushing it up a steep hill to expect
 to get over to Bologna before Christmas. But I may get lucky.



If you have to sign an NDA, you may want to negotiate to exclude any
provisions which preclude you from saying when you receive a device and/or
are allowed to test it, the test method and the test result.  There is no
reason to include such stuff in an NDA and only a scammer would do so.  I
believe that is what Steorn did and it's why the Steorn investors have
never been heard from.

Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2011-11-20 18:07, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:

As I stated, I have sent an introductory and request to purchase a 100
kW plant email to i...@leonardocorp1996.com with details of the existing
business structure and the proposed business model. I expect it will
take several days to get an initial reply and to start the NDA /
contract / agreed test conditions, etc negotiations. Oz just about
totally shuts down over Christmas and New Years for at least 2 weeks. It
is our summer break and no one is at work. So I expect I'm pushing it up
a steep hill to expect to get over to Bologna before Christmas. But I
may get lucky.


Ah, I see. Thanks for your reply.

It looked as if everybody assumed that you were surely going to Bologna 
as a customer testing an E-Cat module in a matter of days. But as you 
say, Rossi has yet to approve your purchase proposal. Please do keep us 
informed on the process.


In my opinion he really should accept, though. That a Vortex-l member 
tested and purchased a 100 kW E-Cat plant, sharing as many details as he 
could (to the extents of what NDAs allow) would boost up Rossi's 
credibility a lot and attract much interest around. Between me and you, 
please consider using this as a leverage for your proposal:)


Besides, hasn't he repeated all along that it's up to the market to 
judge whether it works or not?


Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat

[Aussie Guy E-Cat]

I have been in business long enough to understand NDAs. I have my own 
for Rossi to sign as well and it has teeth as I'm sure his does. Then 
there are the product warranties and guarantees and what happens if a 
breach / default event occurs, which we will draft. It may be only $200k 
but it is my $200k and I don't like losing money buying a crappy product.


AG


On 11/21/2011 3:41 AM, Mary Yugo wrote:



On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat 
aussieguy.e...@gmail.com mailto:aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote:


As I stated, I have sent an introductory and request to purchase a
100 kW plant email to i...@leonardocorp1996.com
mailto:i...@leonardocorp1996.com with details of the existing
business structure and the proposed business model. I expect it
will take several days to get an initial reply and to start the
NDA / contract / agreed test conditions, etc negotiations. Oz just
about totally shuts down over Christmas and New Years for at least
2 weeks. It is our summer break and no one is at work. So I expect
I'm pushing it up a steep hill to expect to get over to Bologna
before Christmas. But I may get lucky.



If you have to sign an NDA, you may want to negotiate to exclude any 
provisions which preclude you from saying when you receive a device 
and/or are allowed to test it, the test method and the test result.  
There is no reason to include such stuff in an NDA and only a scammer 
would do so.  I believe that is what Steorn did and it's why the 
Steorn investors have never been heard from.

[Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat

[Aussie Guy E-Cat]

I have just emailed Rossi with my interest in purchasing a 100 kW E-Cat 
plant. I do thank Vortex members (on the forum and privately) for 
providing the behind the scenes insight into the history of LENR that 
helped to make this decision happen. My bags are ready to be packed, 
funds locked down and I'm ready to fly to Bologna to see and test a 
E-Cat reactor. What I didn't know or were a bit rusty about in measuring 
a E-Cat has been provided by the excellent Vortex forum.


My intention is to pay the funds into a Escrow account, request a test 
of a single E-Cat and if that is found to be OK, to proceed to pre 
delivery testing the 100 kW plant. Failure of either test to meet a min 
COP 6 result would trigger the return of all my Escrowed funds.


I would appreciate suggestions as to the necessary equipment (manuf and 
model) you would suggest I would need to make the initial single E-Cat 
test measurements. I do have many thermocouples and DVMs with temp 
ranges but no flow meters. Does anybody know the manuf and model of the 
heat exchanger used in the 6 Oct demo as I plan to use that setup to do 
the delta T measurements. I do plan on taking a 16 channel data logger 
and digital oscilloscope (both battery powered) to check the input 
energy in ALL the wires going into the E-Cat.


From what I have read here, the 2 temp probes should be inserted 
through the wall of the water hose feeding the heat exchanges enough so 
they are approx central to the water flow, while not touching the inside 
wall of the water hose and likewise for the outlet water hose. Is a  45 
deg insertion angle acceptable?


AG

Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat

[Joshua Cude]

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 1:08 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote:

 I have just emailed Rossi with my interest in purchasing a 100 kW E-Cat
 plant.


Wasn't someone here saying that Rossi doesn't inspire confidence? This
takes confidence, I'd say.

Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat

[Robert Leguillon]

For the secondary water flow, use a lower flow rate, creating a higher delta T. 
Then, the output flow can be diverted into any basin (and periodically 
emptied), with the temperature measured there. You could use a thermocouple 
inside of the input water flow for measure, but keep a disconnect in the line 
to double-check (by emptying some into a basin as well)

Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote:

I have just emailed Rossi with my interest in purchasing a 100 kW E-Cat 
plant. I do thank Vortex members (on the forum and privately) for 
providing the behind the scenes insight into the history of LENR that 
helped to make this decision happen. My bags are ready to be packed, 
funds locked down and I'm ready to fly to Bologna to see and test a 
E-Cat reactor. What I didn't know or were a bit rusty about in measuring 
a E-Cat has been provided by the excellent Vortex forum.

My intention is to pay the funds into a Escrow account, request a test 
of a single E-Cat and if that is found to be OK, to proceed to pre 
delivery testing the 100 kW plant. Failure of either test to meet a min 
COP 6 result would trigger the return of all my Escrowed funds.

I would appreciate suggestions as to the necessary equipment (manuf and 
model) you would suggest I would need to make the initial single E-Cat 
test measurements. I do have many thermocouples and DVMs with temp 
ranges but no flow meters. Does anybody know the manuf and model of the 
heat exchanger used in the 6 Oct demo as I plan to use that setup to do 
the delta T measurements. I do plan on taking a 16 channel data logger 
and digital oscilloscope (both battery powered) to check the input 
energy in ALL the wires going into the E-Cat.

 From what I have read here, the 2 temp probes should be inserted 
through the wall of the water hose feeding the heat exchanges enough so 
they are approx central to the water flow, while not touching the inside 
wall of the water hose and likewise for the outlet water hose. Is a  45 
deg insertion angle acceptable?

AG

Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat

[noone noone]

Please ask for two E-Cats to be tested. One with hydrogen and one without 
hydrogen.

In all the tests that have been done so far, there has not been a control 
used. A test with a control would blow away the thermal inertia hypothesis.

It would also confirm beyond a doubt that the E-Cat with hydrogen is producing 
excess energy.




 From: Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 2:08 AM
Subject: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat
 
I have just emailed Rossi with my interest in purchasing a 100 kW E-Cat plant. 
I do thank Vortex members (on the forum and privately) for providing the behind 
the scenes insight into the history of LENR that helped to make this decision 
happen. My bags are ready to be packed, funds locked down and I'm ready to fly 
to Bologna to see and test a E-Cat reactor. What I didn't know or were a bit 
rusty about in measuring a E-Cat has been provided by the excellent Vortex 
forum.

My intention is to pay the funds into a Escrow account, request a test of a 
single E-Cat and if that is found to be OK, to proceed to pre delivery testing 
the 100 kW plant. Failure of either test to meet a min COP 6 result would 
trigger the return of all my Escrowed funds.

I would appreciate suggestions as to the necessary equipment (manuf and model) 
you would suggest I would need to make the initial single E-Cat test 
measurements. I do have many thermocouples and DVMs with temp ranges but no 
flow meters. Does anybody know the manuf and model of the heat exchanger used 
in the 6 Oct demo as I plan to use that setup to do the delta T measurements. I 
do plan on taking a 16 channel data logger and digital oscilloscope (both 
battery powered) to check the input energy in ALL the wires going into the 
E-Cat.

From what I have read here, the 2 temp probes should be inserted through the 
wall of the water hose feeding the heat exchanges enough so they are approx 
central to the water flow, while not touching the inside wall of the water hose 
and likewise for the outlet water hose. Is a  45 deg insertion angle acceptable?

AG

Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat

[Aussie Guy E-Cat]

I intend to use a digital flow rate monitor, inserted into the intake 
water hose. The data logger will record 16 input and output data points 
every 100 ms or finer if necessary. Amazing what GB memories can do. 
Thanks for the lower flow rate and use of a bucket / basin for secondary 
checking suggestion. Always nice to double check the digitals, being an 
OLD analog (magazine and technology) man who, when first touching a 
CK722 transistor, said WTF?


AG


On 11/20/2011 5:51 PM, Robert Leguillon wrote:

For the secondary water flow, use a lower flow rate, creating a higher delta T. 
Then, the output flow can be diverted into any basin (and periodically 
emptied), with the temperature measured there. You could use a thermocouple 
inside of the input water flow for measure, but keep a disconnect in the line 
to double-check (by emptying some into a basin as well)

Aussie Guy E-Cataussieguy.e...@gmail.com  wrote:


I have just emailed Rossi with my interest in purchasing a 100 kW E-Cat
plant. I do thank Vortex members (on the forum and privately) for
providing the behind the scenes insight into the history of LENR that
helped to make this decision happen. My bags are ready to be packed,
funds locked down and I'm ready to fly to Bologna to see and test a
E-Cat reactor. What I didn't know or were a bit rusty about in measuring
a E-Cat has been provided by the excellent Vortex forum.

My intention is to pay the funds into a Escrow account, request a test
of a single E-Cat and if that is found to be OK, to proceed to pre
delivery testing the 100 kW plant. Failure of either test to meet a min
COP 6 result would trigger the return of all my Escrowed funds.

I would appreciate suggestions as to the necessary equipment (manuf and
model) you would suggest I would need to make the initial single E-Cat
test measurements. I do have many thermocouples and DVMs with temp
ranges but no flow meters. Does anybody know the manuf and model of the
heat exchanger used in the 6 Oct demo as I plan to use that setup to do
the delta T measurements. I do plan on taking a 16 channel data logger
and digital oscilloscope (both battery powered) to check the input
energy in ALL the wires going into the E-Cat.

 From what I have read here, the 2 temp probes should be inserted
through the wall of the water hose feeding the heat exchanges enough so
they are approx central to the water flow, while not touching the inside
wall of the water hose and likewise for the outlet water hose. Is a  45
deg insertion angle acceptable?

AG

Re: [Vo]:Help in testing a E-Cat

[Robert Leguillon]

The critical point is to properly treat it as a black box.  Don't get 
distracted with E-Cat temperature, pressure, etc. You can take additional data 
points, but don't rely on any measurements taken from INSIDE Rossi's system.
What you NEED:
You need good-and-proper input power measurements (logged voltage and a 
thru-line ammeter, if possible), secondary water flow, and higher secondary 
delta T (again, I'd use bucket-diversions to double-check your thermocouples).  
If you get those data points reliably, then you just need sufficient time to 
rule out chemical energy. If you have a choice, test it in a driven mode, 
without any of the self-sustaining B.S. 

I sincerely wish you the best, but I'd wager good money that he would not allow 
such definitive testing. Let us know what you find out.

Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote:

I intend to use a digital flow rate monitor, inserted into the intake 
water hose. The data logger will record 16 input and output data points 
every 100 ms or finer if necessary. Amazing what GB memories can do. 
Thanks for the lower flow rate and use of a bucket / basin for secondary 
checking suggestion. Always nice to double check the digitals, being an 
OLD analog (magazine and technology) man who, when first touching a 
CK722 transistor, said WTF?

AG


On 11/20/2011 5:51 PM, Robert Leguillon wrote:
 For the secondary water flow, use a lower flow rate, creating a higher delta 
 T. Then, the output flow can be diverted into any basin (and periodically 
 emptied), with the temperature measured there. You could use a thermocouple 
 inside of the input water flow for measure, but keep a disconnect in the 
 line to double-check (by emptying some into a basin as well)

 Aussie Guy E-Cataussieguy.e...@gmail.com  wrote:

 I have just emailed Rossi with my interest in purchasing a 100 kW E-Cat
 plant. I do thank Vortex members (on the forum and privately) for
 providing the behind the scenes insight into the history of LENR that
 helped to make this decision happen. My bags are ready to be packed,
 funds locked down and I'm ready to fly to Bologna to see and test a
 E-Cat reactor. What I didn't know or were a bit rusty about in measuring
 a E-Cat has been provided by the excellent Vortex forum.

 My intention is to pay the funds into a Escrow account, request a test
 of a single E-Cat and if that is found to be OK, to proceed to pre
 delivery testing the 100 kW plant. Failure of either test to meet a min
 COP 6 result would trigger the return of all my Escrowed funds.

 I would appreciate suggestions as to the necessary equipment (manuf and
 model) you would suggest I would need to make the initial single E-Cat
 test measurements. I do have many thermocouples and DVMs with temp
 ranges but no flow meters. Does anybody know the manuf and model of the
 heat exchanger used in the 6 Oct demo as I plan to use that setup to do
 the delta T measurements. I do plan on taking a 16 channel data logger
 and digital oscilloscope (both battery powered) to check the input
 energy in ALL the wires going into the E-Cat.

  From what I have read here, the 2 temp probes should be inserted
 through the wall of the water hose feeding the heat exchanges enough so
 they are approx central to the water flow, while not touching the inside
 wall of the water hose and likewise for the outlet water hose. Is a  45
 deg insertion angle acceptable?

 AG

[Vo]:Help me with electrodynamics

[David Jonsson]

I plan to take the exam in this course
http://www.plasma.uu.se/CED/

Who on this list could be my trainer? I have failed the exam so many times
that I realize I need help.

I suggest I try to solve any of the problems from here (without checking the
solutions which are also there)
http://www.plasma.uu.se/CED/exam.html
and provide the answers to you for your comment.

I can even pay for this unless it is too expensive.

David

David Jonsson, Sweden, phone callto:+46703000370

Re: [Vo]:Help Vortex

[OrionWorks]

From Steven Krivit:

 Any or all of us could take responsibility in helping to
 maintain the effectiveness and integrity of the list.

 I was not acutely aware that RELIGION and POLITICS were
 inappropriate subjects here until this recent flare-up. I,
 of course, thought they were OT, but tolerated.

 Now if the word from our sponsor (Bill) says that, in
 fact, RELIGION and POLITICS are inappropriate here, then
 I won't hesitate to jump in and remind someone about that
 if I notice it. Nor should anyone else, IMO.

 Once the reminder is placed in the thread, a yellow (or
 red) flag is raised. The person is reminded that they have
 the option to move the thread over to the other forum.
 Simple and polite. If they don't move it, or they argue,
 they're bucking for a ban.

 It is our way of helping Bill to provide this service for
 us. This is how community works. We make and abide by
 certain rules and we collectively support them.

 Yes?
 Anybody else agree with this?


 Anybody else willing to help watch the list for (purely)
 RELIGION and POLITIC threads? (I presume that threads about
 energy politics are acceptable.)

 Steve

Steve, I'm under the impression that some participants continue to
debate whether politics of any kind are acceptable within vortex-l
prime. If so that would mean many of your valuable contributions would
be considered inappropriate as well.

I have just posted another topic, a proposal to consider the creation
of a new discussion group, Vortex-LoT [VoT] for the specific purpose
of discussing OT views that may have possibly originated within
vortex-l prime [Vo]. But with one major difference from [VoB]: The new
[VoT] group would be where the same netiquette rules apply. Please
see:

Discussion/Debate: Creating [VoT] to handle OT discussions

And please feel free to comment, pro or con, on the matter.

I'm just trying to find out if some might think that such a proposal
could turn out to be a good solution...or not.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Help Vortex

[John Berry]

3 lists, that would just be unmanageable.Better is a rule of thumb, politics
should be allowed as long as it is strictly on topic politics that isn't
causing a problem, otherwise as with any other off topic subject it ought to
go to B.



On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 2:42 AM, OrionWorks svj.orionwo...@gmail.comwrote:

 From Steven Krivit:

  Any or all of us could take responsibility in helping to
  maintain the effectiveness and integrity of the list.
 
  I was not acutely aware that RELIGION and POLITICS were
  inappropriate subjects here until this recent flare-up. I,
  of course, thought they were OT, but tolerated.
 
  Now if the word from our sponsor (Bill) says that, in
  fact, RELIGION and POLITICS are inappropriate here, then
  I won't hesitate to jump in and remind someone about that
  if I notice it. Nor should anyone else, IMO.
 
  Once the reminder is placed in the thread, a yellow (or
  red) flag is raised. The person is reminded that they have
  the option to move the thread over to the other forum.
  Simple and polite. If they don't move it, or they argue,
  they're bucking for a ban.
 
  It is our way of helping Bill to provide this service for
  us. This is how community works. We make and abide by
  certain rules and we collectively support them.
 
  Yes?
  Anybody else agree with this?
 
 
  Anybody else willing to help watch the list for (purely)
  RELIGION and POLITIC threads? (I presume that threads about
  energy politics are acceptable.)
 
  Steve

 Steve, I'm under the impression that some participants continue to
 debate whether politics of any kind are acceptable within vortex-l
 prime. If so that would mean many of your valuable contributions would
 be considered inappropriate as well.

 I have just posted another topic, a proposal to consider the creation
 of a new discussion group, Vortex-LoT [VoT] for the specific purpose
 of discussing OT views that may have possibly originated within
 vortex-l prime [Vo]. But with one major difference from [VoB]: The new
 [VoT] group would be where the same netiquette rules apply. Please
 see:

 Discussion/Debate: Creating [VoT] to handle OT discussions

 And please feel free to comment, pro or con, on the matter.

 I'm just trying to find out if some might think that such a proposal
 could turn out to be a good solution...or not.

 Regards
 Steven Vincent Johnson
 www.OrionWorks.com
 www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Help Vortex

[mixent]

In reply to  John Berry's message of Wed, 17 Jun 2009 02:50:57 +1200:
Hi,
[snip]
3 lists, that would just be unmanageable.

Not necessarily. You can set the filter rules in your email client to send them
both to the same folder, and you wouldn't notice the difference. When you click
on reply it automatically goes to the right list. 

Better is a rule of thumb, politics
should be allowed as long as it is strictly on topic politics that isn't
causing a problem, otherwise as with any other off topic subject it ought to
go to B.
[snip]
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html

[Vo]:Help Vortex

[Steven Krivit]

Any or all of us could take responsibility in helping to maintain the 
effectiveness and integrity of the list.


I was not acutely aware that RELIGION and POLITICS were inappropriate 
subjects here until this recent flare-up. I, of course, thought they were 
OT, but tolerated.


Now if the word from our sponsor (Bill) says that, in fact, RELIGION and 
POLITICS are inappropriate here, then I won't hesitate to jump in and 
remind someone about that if I notice it. Nor should anyone else, IMO.


Once the reminder is placed in the thread, a yellow (or red) flag is 
raised. The person is reminded that they have the option to move the thread 
over to the other forum. Simple and polite. If they don't move it, or they 
argue, they're bucking for a ban.


It is our way of helping Bill to provide this service for us. This is how 
community works. We make and abide by certain rules and we collectively 
support them.


Yes?
Anybody else agree with this?
Anybody else willing to help watch the list for (purely) RELIGION and 
POLITIC threads? (I presume that threads about energy politics are acceptable.)


Steve

Re: [Vo]:Help Vortex

[Terry Blanton]

On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 11:23 PM, Steven
Krivitstev...@newenergytimes.com wrote:

 (I presume that threads about energy politics are
 acceptable.)

Rothwell might disagree.

Terry

Re: [Vo]:Help Vortex

[John Berry]

Agreed.

On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steven Krivit
stev...@newenergytimes.comwrote:

 Any or all of us could take responsibility in helping to maintain the
 effectiveness and integrity of the list.

 I was not acutely aware that RELIGION and POLITICS were inappropriate
 subjects here until this recent flare-up. I, of course, thought they were
 OT, but tolerated.

 Now if the word from our sponsor (Bill) says that, in fact, RELIGION and
 POLITICS are inappropriate here, then I won't hesitate to jump in and remind
 someone about that if I notice it. Nor should anyone else, IMO.

 Once the reminder is placed in the thread, a yellow (or red) flag is
 raised. The person is reminded that they have the option to move the thread
 over to the other forum. Simple and polite. If they don't move it, or they
 argue, they're bucking for a ban.

 It is our way of helping Bill to provide this service for us. This is how
 community works. We make and abide by certain rules and we collectively
 support them.

 Yes?
 Anybody else agree with this?
 Anybody else willing to help watch the list for (purely) RELIGION and
 POLITIC threads? (I presume that threads about energy politics are
 acceptable.)

 Steve

Re: [Vo]: help requested mpg to swf

[leaking pen]

why not just upload the mpeg to youtube?
On 8/5/06, Steve Krivit [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Any Vorts skilled at converting mpg to swf? I've got a one-hour video from1989 of an internal EPRI meeting about CF that I'd love to drop on the net.
I could use either some guidance (I own Macromedia MX Flash 2004 but I'm anovice and don't want to take the time to RTFM) or some volunteerassistance to do the encoding.thxs
-- That which yields isn't always weak. 

[Vo]: help requested mpg to swf

[Steve Krivit]

Any Vorts skilled at converting mpg to swf? I've got a one-hour video from 
1989 of an internal EPRI meeting about CF that I'd love to drop on the net. 
I could use either some guidance (I own Macromedia MX Flash 2004 but I'm a 
novice and don't want to take the time to RTFM) or some volunteer 
assistance to do the encoding.


thx

s

[Vo]: HELP a computer dummy Just a test..subject keeps..

[john herman]

Dear Vo,

 I am trying to retain the digest of Vortex... by get rid of the each-and-every-one letter/post.

 Can one of you wonderful Vortexiallia

 let me know BBGB... how to get the post away... but keep the digest?

 Thanks

John Herman

On 7/26/06, RC Macaulay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Howdy John Berry,

Interesting thought regarding parallel lines of force. You may expand on the thought and receive more input form others in the group. 

Regarding missing e-mail posts and messages, we have been experiencing power outages in key locations in the US like St.Louis. The internet is subject to power outages just like my lightbulbs at home.


During the past few months there has been some internet magic taking place. I will leave it up to others to speculate and/or identify this magic, be it key location power outage, mid-east rowdy boys playing games or big uncle protecting us from ourselves.

Go figure.

Richard

Re: [Vo]: HELP a computer dummy Just a test..subject keeps..

[Terry Blanton]

To unsubscribe from individual emails send a message to:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

with the word unsubscribe in the subject header.

If you haven't already subscribed to the digest, send a message to

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

with the word subscribe in the subject header.

No words are required in the message body for either.

Regards,

Terry

On 7/27/06, john herman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




 Dear Vo,

  I am trying to retain the digest of Vortex... by get rid of the
each-and-every-one letter/post.

  Can one of you wonderful Vortexiallia

   let me know BBGB... how to get the post away... but keep the digest?

  Thanks

 John Herman


On 7/26/06, RC Macaulay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 Howdy John Berry,

 Interesting thought regarding parallel lines of force. You may expand on
the thought and receive more input form others in the group.

 Regarding missing e-mail posts and messages, we have been experiencing
power outages in key locations in the US like St.Louis. The internet is
subject to power outages just like my lightbulbs at home.

 During the past few months there has been some internet magic taking
place. I will leave it up to others to speculate and/or identify this magic,
be it key location power outage, mid-east rowdy boys playing games or big
uncle protecting us from ourselves.
 Go figure.

 Richard

[Vo]: HELP HELP two [2] times??? only

[john herman]

Dear Frank,


and all vo

That is JUST fine but... I DO NOT KNOW how to do that!!!

Will someone PLEASE help a computer illiterattaiieie?
On 7/27/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Dear Vo, 

 I am trying to retain the digest of Vortex... by get rid of the each-and-every-one letter/post.

 Can one of you wonderful Vortexiallia

 let me know BBGB... how to get the post away... but keep the digest?

 Thanks

John Herman

I to don't want my inbox clutttered up with incoming mail.
I block mail from vortex and open up the digest on the internet when
I want to read it.

vortex-l 


Frank Znidarsic