Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
1. NGK LZ5AGP 3381 Plugs 2. Used Fix-A-Thread thread inserts M14-1.26 14.25mm 9/16 3. Used White thin F/C pipe tape to seal and ease of thread use. 4. Screwed easily into 1/2 middle of Fe pipe T 5. Finely turned off, let cool and examined inside. Cotton swab showed black carbon deposits near plug. 6. Reassembled but attached ignition coil output to plug. Worked as before using AC input or DC with door bell in series to create buzz interuptions. 7. Will try Chan oil circulation with suspended Ni next M. - Original Message - From: Axil Axil Sent: 05/09/12 02:10 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=??? Mint Candy, Thanks for taking the time to let us know about your success. I appreciate it. The reports of success with Hexane are growing in number and your report is most promising. Did you see any indications of radiation from your reactor?Is your process easy to control; easy to start up and easy to shut down. Have you noticed any diminution of power production as time goes on? Do you plan to enter the market as a manufacturer? Any additional information about your situation that you feel does not compromise your competitive position in this new marketplace would be of high interest to me. Thanks for your success and its report to us: Axil On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Mint Candy m.ca...@gmx.us wrote: 1. Purchased 60 plate heat exchanger at : http://www.dudadiesel.com/heat_exchangers.php 2. Purchased Ni at : http://www.xuzhounano.com/a/About/About_Us/ 3. Mixed Ni catalyst powder wth Hexane from J. T. Baker 4. Filled one side exchanger with suspension. 5. Evacuated two days ending at 250 C. 6. Followed http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com procedure using Medical Lesion RFG to spark plug. 7. Perfect control using pulse adjustment on RFG and Propane flow. 8. Incredible steam output steady 2 weeks under pressure. 9. Operating at 650C. 10. Must now get patent on catalyst. M. From a Rossi interview, http://pesn.com/2012/01/14/9602012_Momentous_Breakthroughs_Announced_During_Anniversary_E-Cat_Interview/ *It was also clarified that each individual home E-Cat system will utilize one reactor core. This is different than what was stated only a couple months ago, which indicates just how rapidly progress is being made. If the reactor core is the size of a single pack of cigarettes (about 85 cubic centimeters) and can produce 10 kilowatts of power, this makes the power density 117 watts per cubic centimeter -- a super high value!* Using lightweight Nantenna technology an heat to electric power conversion of over 50% can be achieved. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nantenna This anthology of anti-gravity and reactionless technology papers shows the interest that Boeing and the US research labs had it this electric propulsion technology. http://www.scribd.com/doc/25664401/803-Page-Collection-of-Papers-on-Anti-Gravity-Research The articles from Nick Cook in Jane’s Defense Weekly are especially informative. /Boeing, the world's largest aircraft manufacturer, has admitted that it is working on experimental anti-gravity projects that could overturn a century of conventional aerospace propulsion technology if the science that underpins them - science that senior Boeing officials describe as valid - can be engineered into hardware. As part of the effort, which is being run out of Boeing's PhantomWorks advanced research and development facility in Seattle, the company is trying to solicit the services of a Russian scientist who claims he has developed 'high-' and 'low-power' anti-gravity devices In Russia and Finland. The approach, however, has been thwarted by Russian officialdom.The Boeing drive to develop a collaborative relationship with the scientist in question, Dr Evgeny Podkletnov, has its own internal project name: 'GRASP' -Gravity Research for Advanced Space Propulsion.A briefing document on GRASP obtained by Jane's Defense Weekly sets out what Boeing believes is at sta! ke. If gravity modification is real, it says, it will alter the entire aerospace business. The report was written by Jamie Childress, principal investigator for Boeing's propellant less propulsion work at the Phantom Works in Seattle./ IMHO, some of this weird stuff went into the B2 bomber. Regards: Axil On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote: the power density of Defkalion hyperion, is about 5kW for 10g of powder, 5kg of reactor, plus pipes,pump and bottle (should be negligible if well integrated and MW sized)... 45MW mechanic, imply 150-200MW thermal, so about 200ton of reactor, plus turbines. it is not far from the current total weight of that plane... so there should be work to make the reactor lighter, but you don't compare a marine diesel engine with a jet engine. With good engineering, they could make a reactor much below 50tons
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
We all at vortex have ignored the hexane/propane (HP) based reactors. IMHO, this reaction type is different in its operation and its reaction mechanism than what Rossi and DGT are doing. I am thinking 180 degrees out of phase different. I am talking negative polarity as opposed to positive polarity. This reactor type is not thermionic by is controlled by varying the electrical spark input into the reaction. I believe that the HP reaction is a hydrogen/carbon/nickel dry cold fusion reaction in dusty plasma. This HP reaction is based on the Rossi reaction only in inspiration but at the same time is completely original. We see reports of successful HP reactions almost weekly here at vortex and yet we are fixated on the Rossi reaction system. The HP seems to be more robust, more controllable and more stable than the Rossi reaction. Having added a catalyst to this HP reaction puts Mint Candy far ahead; head and shoulders ahead of the HP pack and fortunately Mint Candy is posting here at vortex. With Congratulations Gratitude and Respect: Axil On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Mint Candy m.ca...@gmx.us wrote: 1. NGK LZ5AGP 3381 Plugs 2. Used Fix-A-Thread thread inserts M14-1.26 14.25mm 9/16 3. Used White thin F/C pipe tape to seal and ease of thread use. 4. Screwed easily into 1/2 middle of Fe pipe T 5. Finely turned off, let cool and examined inside. Cotton swab showed black carbon deposits near plug. 6. Reassembled but attached ignition coil output to plug. Worked as before using AC input or DC with door bell in series to create buzz interuptions. 7. Will try Chan oil circulation with suspended Ni next M. - Original Message - From: Axil Axil Sent: 05/09/12 02:10 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=??? Mint Candy, Thanks for taking the time to let us know about your success. I appreciate it. The reports of success with Hexane are growing in number and your report is most promising. Did you see any indications of radiation from your reactor? Is your process easy to control; easy to start up and easy to shut down. Have you noticed any diminution of power production as time goes on? Do you plan to enter the market as a manufacturer? Any additional information about your situation that you feel does not compromise your competitive position in this new marketplace would be of high interest to me. Thanks for your success and its report to us: Axil On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Mint Candy m.ca...@gmx.us wrote: 1. Purchased 60 plate heat exchanger at : http://www.dudadiesel.com/heat_exchangers.php 2. Purchased Ni at : http://www.xuzhounano.com/a/About/About_Us/ 3. Mixed Ni catalyst powder wth Hexane from J. T. Baker 4. Filled one side exchanger with suspension. 5. Evacuated two days ending at 250 C. 6. Followed http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com procedure using Medical Lesion RFG to spark plug. 7. Perfect control using pulse adjustment on RFG and Propane flow. 8. Incredible steam output steady 2 weeks under pressure. 9. Operating at 650C. 10. Must now get patent on catalyst. M. From a Rossi interview, http://pesn.com/2012/01/14/9602012_Momentous_Breakthroughs_Announced_During_Anniversary_E-Cat_Interview/ *It was also clarified that each individual home E-Cat system will utilize one reactor core. This is different than what was stated only a couple months ago, which indicates just how rapidly progress is being made. If the reactor core is the size of a single pack of cigarettes (about 85 cubic centimeters) and can produce 10 kilowatts of power, this makes the power density 117 watts per cubic centimeter -- a super high value!* Using lightweight Nantenna technology an heat to electric power conversion of over 50% can be achieved. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nantenna This anthology of anti-gravity and reactionless technology papers shows the interest that Boeing and the US research labs had it this electric propulsion technology. http://www.scribd.com/doc/25664401/803-Page-Collection-of-Papers-on-Anti-Gravity-Research The articles from Nick Cook in Jane’s Defense Weekly are especially informative. *Boeing, the world's largest aircraft manufacturer, has admitted that it is working on experimental anti-gravity projects that could overturn a century of conventional aerospace propulsion technology if the science that underpins them - science that senior Boeing officials describe as valid - can be engineered into hardware. As part of the effort, which is being run out of Boeing's PhantomWorks advanced research and development facility in Seattle, the company is trying to solicit the services of a Russian scientist who claims he has developed 'high-' and 'low-power' anti-gravity devices In Russia and Finland. The approach, however, has been thwarted by Russian officialdom.The
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
Axil,
Isn't Celani
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg59143.html
with "(as HYDRIDES?)" discussing e+p+e anions
attracted toward the Ni nucleus under conditions favorable for
penetration of the p+e portion leaving e outside to satisfy charge
balance and resulting in a Ni nucleus of instability ala Rossi?
Warm Regards,
Reliable
Axil Axil wrote:
We
all at vortex have ignored the hexane/propane (HP) based
reactors. IMHO, this reaction type is different in its operation and
its
reaction mechanism than what Rossi and DGT are doing. I am thinking 180
degrees
out of phase different. I am talking negative polarity as opposed to
positive
polarity. This reactor type is not thermionic by is controlled by
varying the
electrical spark input into the reaction.
I
believe that the HP reaction is a hydrogen/carbon/nickel dry cold
fusion reaction in dusty plasma. This HP reaction is based on the Rossi
reaction only in inspiration but at the same time is completely
original.
We
see reports of successful HP reactions almost weekly here at
vortex and yet we are fixated on the Rossi reaction system.
The
HP seems to be more robust, more controllable and more stable
than the Rossi reaction.
Having
added a catalyst to this HP reaction puts Mint Candy far
ahead; head and shoulders ahead of the HP pack and fortunately Mint
Candy is
posting here at vortex.
With
Congratulations Gratitude and Respect: Axil
On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Mint Candy
m.ca...@gmx.us
wrote:
1. NGK LZ5AGP
3381 Plugs
2. Used Fix-A-Thread thread inserts M14-1.26 14.25mm 9/16
3. Used White thin F/C pipe tape to seal and ease of thread use.
4. Screwed easily into 1/2" middle of Fe pipe T
5. Finely turned off, let cool and examined inside. Cotton swab showed
black carbon deposits near plug.
6. Reassembled but attached ignition coil output to plug. Worked as
before using AC input or DC with door bell in series to create buzz
interuptions.
7. Will try Chan oil circulation with suspended Ni next
M.
-
Original Message -
From:
Axil Axil
Sent:
05/09/12 02:10 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject:
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
Mint Candy,
Thanks for taking the time to
let us know about your success. I appreciate it.
The reports of success with
Hexane are growing in number and your report is most promising. Did you
see any indications of radiation from your reactor? Is
your process easy to control; easy to start up and easy to shut down.
Have you noticed any diminution
of power production as time goes on? Do you plan to enter the market as
a manufacturer?
Any additional information about
your situation that you feel does not compromise your competitive
position in this new marketplace would be of high interest to me.
Thanks for your success and its
report to us:
Axil
On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Mint Candy m.ca...@gmx.us
wrote:
1. Purchased 60 plate heat exchanger at : http://www.dudadiesel.com/heat_exchangers.php
2. Purchased Ni at : http://www.xuzhounano.com/a/About/About_Us/
3. Mixed Ni catalyst powder wth Hexane from J. T. Baker
4. Filled one side exchanger with suspension.
5. Evacuated two days ending at 250 C.
6. Followed http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com
procedure using Medical Lesion RFG to spark plug.
7. Perfect control using pulse adjustment on RFG and Propane flow.
8. Incredible steam output steady 2 weeks under pressure.
9. Operating at 650C.
10. Must now get patent on catalyst.
M.
From a Rossi interview,
http://pesn.com/2012/01/14/9602012_Momentous_Breakthroughs_Announced_During_Anniversary_E-Cat_Interview/
It was also clarified that each
individual home E-Cat system will utilize one reactor core. This is
different than what was stated only a couple months ago, which
indicates just how rapidly progress is being made. If the reactor core
is the size of a single pack of cigarettes (about 85 cubic centimeters)
and can produce 10 kilowatts of power, this makes the power density 117
watts per cubic centimeter -- a super high value!
Using lightweight Nantenna technology an heat
to electric power conversion of over 50% can be achieved.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nantenna
This anthology of anti-gravity and
reactionless technology papers shows the interest that Boeing and the
US research labs had it this electric propulsion technology.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/25664401/803-Page-Collection-of-Papers-on-Anti-Gravity-Research
The articles from Nick Cook in Janes
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
The Celani system is a LENR system as opposed to a LENR+ system. The LENR system is of limited value compared to a LENR+ system. The system that Mint Candy is working on is a LENR+ system; a potentially highly productive and manageable system which is not related to the systems approaches to Rossi or DGT. It is difficult to place any given system in its proper genus with everything being so speculative and so little know about each of them. Cheers: Axil On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 12:42 AM, integral.property.serv...@gmail.com integral.property.serv...@gmail.com wrote: ** Axil, Isn't Celani http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg59143.html with (as HYDRIDES?) discussing e+p+e *anions* attracted toward the Ni nucleus under conditions favorable for penetration of the p+e portion leaving e outside to satisfy charge balance and resulting in a Ni nucleus of instability ala Rossi? Warm Regards, Reliable Axil Axil wrote: We all at vortex have ignored the hexane/propane (HP) based reactors. IMHO, this reaction type is different in its operation and its reaction mechanism than what Rossi and DGT are doing. I am thinking 180 degrees out of phase different. I am talking negative polarity as opposed to positive polarity. This reactor type is not thermionic by is controlled by varying the electrical spark input into the reaction. I believe that the HP reaction is a hydrogen/carbon/nickel dry cold fusion reaction in dusty plasma. This HP reaction is based on the Rossi reaction only in inspiration but at the same time is completely original. We see reports of successful HP reactions almost weekly here at vortex and yet we are fixated on the Rossi reaction system. The HP seems to be more robust, more controllable and more stable than the Rossi reaction. Having added a catalyst to this HP reaction puts Mint Candy far ahead; head and shoulders ahead of the HP pack and fortunately Mint Candy is posting here at vortex. With Congratulations Gratitude and Respect: Axil On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Mint Candy m.ca...@gmx.us wrote: 1. NGK LZ5AGP 3381 Plugs 2. Used Fix-A-Thread thread inserts M14-1.26 14.25mm 9/16 3. Used White thin F/C pipe tape to seal and ease of thread use. 4. Screwed easily into 1/2 middle of Fe pipe T 5. Finely turned off, let cool and examined inside. Cotton swab showed black carbon deposits near plug. 6. Reassembled but attached ignition coil output to plug. Worked as before using AC input or DC with door bell in series to create buzz interuptions. 7. Will try Chan oil circulation with suspended Ni next M. - Original Message - From: Axil Axil Sent: 05/09/12 02:10 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=??? Mint Candy, Thanks for taking the time to let us know about your success. I appreciate it. The reports of success with Hexane are growing in number and your report is most promising. Did you see any indications of radiation from your reactor? Is your process easy to control; easy to start up and easy to shut down. Have you noticed any diminution of power production as time goes on? Do you plan to enter the market as a manufacturer? Any additional information about your situation that you feel does not compromise your competitive position in this new marketplace would be of high interest to me. Thanks for your success and its report to us: Axil On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Mint Candy m.ca...@gmx.us wrote: 1. Purchased 60 plate heat exchanger at : http://www.dudadiesel.com/heat_exchangers.php 2. Purchased Ni at : http://www.xuzhounano.com/a/About/About_Us/ 3. Mixed Ni catalyst powder wth Hexane from J. T. Baker 4. Filled one side exchanger with suspension. 5. Evacuated two days ending at 250 C. 6. Followed http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com procedure using Medical Lesion RFG to spark plug. 7. Perfect control using pulse adjustment on RFG and Propane flow. 8. Incredible steam output steady 2 weeks under pressure. 9. Operating at 650C. 10. Must now get patent on catalyst. M. From a Rossi interview, http://pesn.com/2012/01/14/9602012_Momentous_Breakthroughs_Announced_During_Anniversary_E-Cat_Interview/ *It was also clarified that each individual home E-Cat system will utilize one reactor core. This is different than what was stated only a couple months ago, which indicates just how rapidly progress is being made. If the reactor core is the size of a single pack of cigarettes (about 85 cubic centimeters) and can produce 10 kilowatts of power, this makes the power density 117 watts per cubic centimeter -- a super high value!* Using lightweight Nantenna technology an heat to electric power conversion of over 50% can be achieved. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nantenna This anthology of anti-gravity and reactionless technology papers
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
Mint Candy, Thanks for taking the time to let us know about your success. I appreciate it. The reports of success with Hexane are growing in number and your report is most promising. Did you see any indications of radiation from your reactor? Is your process easy to control; easy to start up and easy to shut down. Have you noticed any diminution of power production as time goes on? Do you plan to enter the market as a manufacturer? Any additional information about your situation that you feel does not compromise your competitive position in this new marketplace would be of high interest to me. Thanks for your success and its report to us: Axil On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Mint Candy m.ca...@gmx.us wrote: 1. Purchased 60 plate heat exchanger at : http://www.dudadiesel.com/heat_exchangers.php 2. Purchased Ni at : http://www.xuzhounano.com/a/About/About_Us/ 3. Mixed Ni catalyst powder wth Hexane from J. T. Baker 4. Filled one side exchanger with suspension. 5. Evacuated two days ending at 250 C. 6. Followed http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com procedure using Medical Lesion RFG to spark plug. 7. Perfect control using pulse adjustment on RFG and Propane flow. 8. Incredible steam output steady 2 weeks under pressure. 9. Operating at 650C. 10. Must now get patent on catalyst. M. From a Rossi interview, http://pesn.com/2012/01/14/9602012_Momentous_Breakthroughs_Announced_During_Anniversary_E-Cat_Interview/ *It was also clarified that each individual home E-Cat system will utilize one reactor core. This is different than what was stated only a couple months ago, which indicates just how rapidly progress is being made. If the reactor core is the size of a single pack of cigarettes (about 85 cubic centimeters) and can produce 10 kilowatts of power, this makes the power density 117 watts per cubic centimeter -- a super high value!* Using lightweight Nantenna technology an heat to electric power conversion of over 50% can be achieved. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nantenna This anthology of anti-gravity and reactionless technology papers shows the interest that Boeing and the US research labs had it this electric propulsion technology. http://www.scribd.com/doc/25664401/803-Page-Collection-of-Papers-on-Anti-Gravity-Research The articles from Nick Cook in Jane’s Defense Weekly are especially informative. *Boeing, the world's largest aircraft manufacturer, has admitted that it is working on experimental anti-gravity projects that could overturn a century of conventional aerospace propulsion technology if the science that underpins them - science that senior Boeing officials describe as valid - can be engineered into hardware. As part of the effort, which is being run out of Boeing's PhantomWorks advanced research and development facility in Seattle, the company is trying to solicit the services of a Russian scientist who claims he has developed 'high-' and 'low-power' anti-gravity devices In Russia and Finland. The approach, however, has been thwarted by Russian officialdom.The Boeing drive to develop a collaborative relationship with the scientist in question, Dr Evgeny Podkletnov, has its own internal project name: 'GRASP' -Gravity Research for Advanced Space Propulsion.A briefing document on GRASP obtained by Jane's Defense Weekly sets out what Boeing believes is at stake. If gravity modification is real, it says, it will alter the entire aerospace business. The report was written by Jamie Childress, principal investigator for Boeing's propellant less propulsion work at the Phantom Works in Seattle.* IMHO, some of this weird stuff went into the B2 bomber. Regards: Axil On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.comwrote: the power density of Defkalion hyperion, is about 5kW for 10g of powder, 5kg of reactor, plus pipes,pump and bottle (should be negligible if well integrated and MW sized)... 45MW mechanic, imply 150-200MW thermal, so about 200ton of reactor, plus turbines. it is not far from the current total weight of that plane... so there should be work to make the reactor lighter, but you don't compare a marine diesel engine with a jet engine. With good engineering, they could make a reactor much below 50tons. if miniaturization is a success, 90MW mech. for takeoff could be possible, or maybe hybrid (electric/lenr, or jet/lenr). so not impossible, but much work. 2012/4/22 Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 1:00 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: It can be extremely useful to incorporate 45 megawatts of LENR power into a stealth aircraft. This capability will allow the stealth aircraft designer a true UFO like performance via a hybrid ion jet engine. How would you get a 45 MW LENR reactor into a stealth aircraft? Are you thinking of something along the lines of Moore's law for LENR cells? I wouldn't
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
1. Purchased 60 plate heat exchanger at : http://www.dudadiesel.com/heat_exchangers.php 2. Purchased Ni at : http://www.xuzhounano.com/a/About/About_Us/ 3. Mixed Ni catalyst powder wth Hexane from J. T. Baker 4. Filled one side exchanger with suspension. 5. Evacuated two days ending at 250 C. 6. Followed http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com procedure using Medical Lesion RFG to spark plug. 7. Perfect control using pulse adjustment on RFG and Propane flow. 8. Incredible steam output steady 2 weeks under pressure. 9. Operating at 650C. 10. Must now get patent on catalyst. M. From a Rossi interview, http://pesn.com/2012/01/14/9602012_Momentous_Breakthroughs_Announced_During_Anniversary_E-Cat_Interview/ *It was also clarified that each individual home E-Cat system will utilize one reactor core. This is different than what was stated only a couple months ago, which indicates just how rapidly progress is being made. If the reactor core is the size of a single pack of cigarettes (about 85 cubic centimeters) and can produce 10 kilowatts of power, this makes the power density 117 watts per cubic centimeter -- a super high value!* Using lightweight Nantenna technology an heat to electric power conversion of over 50% can be achieved. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nantenna This anthology of anti-gravity and reactionless technology papers shows the interest that Boeing and the US research labs had it this electric propulsion technology. http://www.scribd.com/doc/25664401/803-Page-Collection-of-Papers-on-Anti-Gravity-Research The articles from Nick Cook in Jane’s Defense Weekly are especially informative. /Boeing, the world's largest aircraft manufacturer, has admitted that it is working on experimental anti-gravity projects that could overturn a century of conventional aerospace propulsion technology if the science that underpins them - science that senior Boeing officials describe as valid - can be engineered into hardware. As part of the effort, which is being run out of Boeing's PhantomWorks advanced research and development facility in Seattle, the company is trying to solicit the services of a Russian scientist who claims he has developed 'high-' and 'low-power' anti-gravity devices In Russia and Finland. The approach, however, has been thwarted by Russian officialdom.The Boeing drive to develop a collaborative relationship with the scientist in question, Dr Evgeny Podkletnov, has its own internal project name: 'GRASP' -Gravity Research for Advanced Space Propulsion.A briefing document on GRASP obtained by Jane's Defense Weekly sets out what Boeing believes is at sta! ke. If gravity modification is real, it says, it will alter the entire aerospace business. The report was written by Jamie Childress, principal investigator for Boeing's propellant less propulsion work at the Phantom Works in Seattle./ IMHO, some of this weird stuff went into the B2 bomber. Regards: Axil On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote: the power density of Defkalion hyperion, is about 5kW for 10g of powder, 5kg of reactor, plus pipes,pump and bottle (should be negligible if well integrated and MW sized)... 45MW mechanic, imply 150-200MW thermal, so about 200ton of reactor, plus turbines. it is not far from the current total weight of that plane... so there should be work to make the reactor lighter, but you don't compare a marine diesel engine with a jet engine. With good engineering, they could make a reactor much below 50tons. if miniaturization is a success, 90MW mech. for takeoff could be possible, or maybe hybrid (electric/lenr, or jet/lenr). so not impossible, but much work. 2012/4/22 Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 1:00 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: It can be extremely useful to incorporate 45 megawatts of LENR power into a stealth aircraft. This capability will allow the stealth aircraft designer a true UFO like performance via a hybrid ion jet engine. How would you get a 45 MW LENR reactor into a stealth aircraft? Are you thinking of something along the lines of Moore's law for LENR cells? I wouldn't be surprised if there ended up being something like this. Eric
RE: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
The Roll Royce RR300 produces 300 HP with 1.1 megawatts of heating power, so 45 megawatts would be more than 13,500 HP. Assuming 10 lbf lift per horsepower ( true for a helicopter, the giant A400M lifts 7 lbf/HP ), the aircraft could weigh 135,000 pounds or 67 tons. From: alain.coetm...@gmail.com [mailto:alain.coetm...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Alain Sepeda Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 11:45 AM the power density of Defkalion hyperion, is about 5kW for 10g of powder, 5kg of reactor, plus pipes,pump and bottle (should be negligible if well integrated and MW sized)... 45MW mechanic, imply 150-200MW thermal, so about 200ton of reactor, plus turbines. ...
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
It can be extremely useful to incorporate 45 megawatts of LENR power into a stealth aircraft. This capability will allow the stealth aircraft designer a true UFO like performance via a hybrid ion jet engine. From the article on Military jet engines…see Under Stealth http://engines.fighter-planes.com/jet_engine.htm *Eliminating the pilot, as well as any fins, will do much to enhance stealth qualities. This will focus increased pressure on the need to devise truly stealthy propulsion system…* ** *I have numerous documents, all published openly in the United States, which purport to explain how the B-2 is even stranger - far stranger - than it appears. Most are articles published in commercial magazines, some are openly published US Patents, while a few are open USAF publications by Wright Aeronautical Laboratory and Air Force Systems Command's Astronautics Laboratory. They deal with such topics as electric-field propulsion, and electrogravitics (or anti-gravity), the transient alteration of not only thrust but also a body's weight. Sci-Fi has nothing on this stuff….* Very interesting…take a look. Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Your political predilections have forced a disconnect in the logic of your position. If Rossi has sold his system to a military customer, the requirements of the current military grand strategy of automating war fighting will force a Tom Clancy like development of Robot warriors. Do you think that E-Cats will heat out houses in Afghanistan? No way my friend. On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 7:15 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote: Rossi says that President Obama is the greatest president of all times Now I am convinced Rossi is full of s)t! The rest of your analysis reads like a Tom Clancy novel and unfortunately i think Rossi's actions are better captured in the novel Matchstick Men. On Wednesday, April 18, 2012, Jed Rothwell wrote: I meant they do NOT spend millions just to know. The whole idea is preposterous. If anyone in the press found out about such a thing, they would be dragged before Congress and everyone involved would be fired. Actually, any involvement in cold fusion at any level would be a scandal. But especially, buying something for a million bucks and leaving it at the factory untested is simple out of the question. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 1:00 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: It can be extremely useful to incorporate 45 megawatts of LENR power into a stealth aircraft. This capability will allow the stealth aircraft designer a true UFO like performance via a hybrid ion jet engine. How would you get a 45 MW LENR reactor into a stealth aircraft? Are you thinking of something along the lines of Moore's law for LENR cells? I wouldn't be surprised if there ended up being something like this. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
the power density of Defkalion hyperion, is about 5kW for 10g of powder, 5kg of reactor, plus pipes,pump and bottle (should be negligible if well integrated and MW sized)... 45MW mechanic, imply 150-200MW thermal, so about 200ton of reactor, plus turbines. it is not far from the current total weight of that plane... so there should be work to make the reactor lighter, but you don't compare a marine diesel engine with a jet engine. With good engineering, they could make a reactor much below 50tons. if miniaturization is a success, 90MW mech. for takeoff could be possible, or maybe hybrid (electric/lenr, or jet/lenr). so not impossible, but much work. 2012/4/22 Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 1:00 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: It can be extremely useful to incorporate 45 megawatts of LENR power into a stealth aircraft. This capability will allow the stealth aircraft designer a true UFO like performance via a hybrid ion jet engine. How would you get a 45 MW LENR reactor into a stealth aircraft? Are you thinking of something along the lines of Moore's law for LENR cells? I wouldn't be surprised if there ended up being something like this. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
From a Rossi interview, http://pesn.com/2012/01/14/9602012_Momentous_Breakthroughs_Announced_During_Anniversary_E-Cat_Interview/ *It was also clarified that each individual home E-Cat system will utilize one reactor core. This is different than what was stated only a couple months ago, which indicates just how rapidly progress is being made. If the reactor core is the size of a single pack of cigarettes (about 85 cubic centimeters) and can produce 10 kilowatts of power, this makes the power density 117 watts per cubic centimeter -- a super high value!* Using lightweight Nantenna technology an heat to electric power conversion of over 50% can be achieved. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nantenna This anthology of anti-gravity and reactionless technology papers shows the interest that Boeing and the US research labs had it this electric propulsion technology. http://www.scribd.com/doc/25664401/803-Page-Collection-of-Papers-on-Anti-Gravity-Research The articles from Nick Cook in Jane’s Defense Weekly are especially informative. *Boeing, the world's largest aircraft manufacturer, has admitted that it is working on experimental anti-gravity projects that could overturn a century of conventional aerospace propulsion technology if the science that underpins them - science that senior Boeing officials describe as valid - can be engineered into hardware. As part of the effort, which is being run out of Boeing's PhantomWorks advanced research and development facility in Seattle, the company is trying to solicit the services of a Russian scientist who claims he has developed 'high-' and 'low-power' anti-gravity devices In Russia and Finland. The approach, however, has been thwarted by Russian officialdom.The Boeing drive to develop a collaborative relationship with the scientist in question, Dr Evgeny Podkletnov, has its own internal project name: 'GRASP' -Gravity Research for Advanced Space Propulsion.A briefing document on GRASP obtained by Jane's Defense Weekly sets out what Boeing believes is at stake. If gravity modification is real, it says, it will alter the entire aerospace business. The report was written by Jamie Childress, principal investigator for Boeing's propellant less propulsion work at the Phantom Works in Seattle.* IMHO, some of this weird stuff went into the B2 bomber. Regards: Axil On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.comwrote: the power density of Defkalion hyperion, is about 5kW for 10g of powder, 5kg of reactor, plus pipes,pump and bottle (should be negligible if well integrated and MW sized)... 45MW mechanic, imply 150-200MW thermal, so about 200ton of reactor, plus turbines. it is not far from the current total weight of that plane... so there should be work to make the reactor lighter, but you don't compare a marine diesel engine with a jet engine. With good engineering, they could make a reactor much below 50tons. if miniaturization is a success, 90MW mech. for takeoff could be possible, or maybe hybrid (electric/lenr, or jet/lenr). so not impossible, but much work. 2012/4/22 Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 1:00 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: It can be extremely useful to incorporate 45 megawatts of LENR power into a stealth aircraft. This capability will allow the stealth aircraft designer a true UFO like performance via a hybrid ion jet engine. How would you get a 45 MW LENR reactor into a stealth aircraft? Are you thinking of something along the lines of Moore's law for LENR cells? I wouldn't be surprised if there ended up being something like this. Eric -
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Wed, 18 Apr 2012 14:44:10 -0400: Hi, [snip] Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: I suspect the requirement for the 45 MW LENR systems originally came from the US Navy to power their aircraft carrier based drones. You don't need 45 MW for a drone! Okay, maybe for the upcoming X-47B drone, but you would not start with that. They would start with a small drone. - Jed Quote (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_horsepower_of_one_engine_in_a_Boeing_747):- Fully loaded at 400 tons, the Boeing 747 requires 90 mega-watts (MW) of energy to get airborne. This relates to 120,000 horsepower (hp). The energy consumption during cruising is reduced to half, or 45MW (60,000hp). IOW the drone would have the power expended by a cruising 747. I wonder if the choice of this number was coincidental? This isn't thus the power required by a small drone. This is a full sized bomber! Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Wed, 18 Apr 2012 18:02:50 -0400: Hi, [snip] I know several people in the Navy and Army. What you are saying is absurd. They do spend millions of dollars just to know something. If they purchased the machine, they would take to one of their facilities and run it with instrumentation to learn all about it. They would not let it sit there ...unless they are running their tests where it is rather than shipping it elsewhere. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
That's great! That would be easy to adapt to cold fusion, in a first-generation cold fusion aircraft. You would not need the battery, so the payload would be increased. This airplane reduces fuel consumption by 70% -- an astounding number. That is not necessary with cold fusion. It would serve no purpose. Perhaps second-generation designs with cold fusion could increase power and speed. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
Has anyone identified a change in one of the fuel ingredients? I am curious as to where the energy is derived. Dave -Original Message- From: integral.property.service integral.property.serv...@gmail.com To: vortex-L vortex-L@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Apr 18, 2012 1:06 pm Subject: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=??? Ron, Even better: ttp://pesn.com/2012/04/15/9602075_Inteligentry_Manufacturers_Gearing_Up_for_Noble_Gas_Engine_Roll-out/ Reliable Ron Kita wrote: Greetings Vortex-L An ideal LENR App the Boeing Sugar Volt: http://cubeme.com/blog/2010/08/03/boeing-team%E2%80%99s-innovative-sugar-volt-concept/ Ronn Kita, Chiralex
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
I suspect the requirement for the 45 MW LENR systems originally came from the US Navy to power their aircraft carrier based drones. Military aircraft always precede commercial aircraft development. As background, the U.S. Navy's pursuit of drones is recognition of the need for new weapons and strategies to deal not only with China but a changing military landscape generally. Carrier-based unmanned aircraft systems have tremendous potential, especially in increasing the range and persistence of our intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance operations, as well as our ability to strike targets quickly, Van Buskirk said at the 7th Fleet's headquarters in Yokosuka, Japan. His fleet boasts one carrier – the USS George Washington – along with about 60 other ships and 40,000 sailors and Marines. Experts say the drones could be used on any of the 11 U.S. carriers worldwide and are not being developed exclusively as a counterbalance to China. But China's reported progress in missile development appears to make the need for them more urgent. The DF 21D carrier killer missile is designed for launch from land with enough accuracy to hit a moving aircraft carrier at a distance of more than 900 miles (1,500 kilometers). Though still unproven – and some analysts say overrated – no other country has such a weapon. Current Navy fighter jets can only operate about 500 nautical miles (900 kilometers) from a target, leaving a carrier within range of the Chinese missile. Current Drone designs would have an unrefueled combat radius of 1,500 nautical miles (2,780 kilometers) and could remain airborne for 50 to 100 hours – versus the 10 hour maximum for a pilot, according to a 2008 paper by analysts Tom Ehrhard and Robert Work at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments. Work is now an undersecretary of the Navy. A LENR Drone could be launched from anywhere outside of Chinese missile range and stay airborne indefinably without refueling capability; and expensive and incontinent necessity in a combated environment. Introducing a new aircraft that promises to let the strike group do its work from beyond the maximum effective firing range of the anti-ship ballistic missile – or beyond its range entirely – represents a considerable boost in defensive potential for the carrier strike group, said James Holmes of the U.S. Naval War College. Northrop Grumman has a six-year, $635.8 million contract to develop two of the planes, with more acquisitions expected if they work. A prototype of its X-47B took a maiden 29-minute flight in February at Edwards Air Force Base in California. Initial testing on carriers is planned for 2013. Coincidently…or not, Northrop Grumman was the lead contractor involved in a recent nuclear Drone study. Other makers including Boeing and Lockheed are also in the game. General Atomics Aeronautical Systems, Inc. – the maker of the Predator drones used in the Afghan war – carried out wind tunnel tests in February. Spokeswoman Kimberly Kasitz said it was too early to divulge further details. Some experts warn carrier-based drones are still untested and stress that Chinese advances have not rendered carriers obsolete. Drones, if they work, are just the next tech leap. As long as there is a need for tactical aviation launched from the sea, carriers will be useful weapons of war, said Michael McDevitt, a former commandant of the National War College in Washington, D.C., and a retired rear admiral whose commands included an aircraft carrier battle group. Some analysts also note that China may be reluctant to instigate any fighting that could interfere with its trade. Nan Li, an expert at the U.S. Naval War College's China Maritime Studies Institute, doubts China would try to attack a U.S. carrier. I am a skeptic of such an interpretation of Chinese strategy, he said. But I do think the X-47B may still be a useful preventive capability for worst-case scenarios. The Air Force and Navy both sponsored a project to develop carrier-based drones in the early 2000s, but the Air Force pulled out in 2005, leaving the Navy to fund the research. Adm. Gary Roughhead, chief of naval operations, said last summer that the current goal of getting a handful of unmanned bombers in action by 2018 is too damn slow. Seriously, we've got to have a sense of urgency about getting this stuff out there, he told a conference. It could fundamentally change how we think of naval aviation. True, LENR will remake naval air warfare. On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: That's great! That would be easy to adapt to cold fusion, in a first-generation cold fusion aircraft. You would not need the battery, so the payload would be increased. This airplane reduces fuel consumption by 70% -- an astounding number. That is not necessary with cold fusion. It would serve no purpose. Perhaps second-generation designs with cold fusion could increase power and speed. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: I suspect the requirement for the 45 MW LENR systems originally came from the US Navy to power their aircraft carrier based drones. You don't need 45 MW for a drone! Okay, maybe for the upcoming X-47B drone, but you would not start with that. They would start with a small drone. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: I suspect the requirement for the 45 MW LENR systems originally came from the US Navy to power their aircraft carrier based drones. Also, if Rossi can make a 45 MW reactor it will be the size of an office building. It will weigh many times more than a drone. Even Rossi's smallest reactors are far too heavy for aviation applications. The ratio of weight to power is too high. Everyone I know in the military and the aviation business agrees that LENR may be an important source of energy in the future, but Rossi's present 1 MW reactor is ridiculous, and a 45 MW version would be insane. It makes no sense whatever to scale up so much at this stage in the development of the technology. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
Rossi has stated that his 1 MW reactors was delivered to a military customer. It logically follows that he would setup his company in close proximity to that customer. Florida’s Mayport Naval Station and Jacksonville Naval Air Station was also where the Navy’s Broad Area Maritime Surveillance (BAMS) unmanned aerial system was developed. I suspect that the LENR version of the Navy next generation drone power plant will be directed by the BAMS project management. With a number of naval facilities in the Florida panhandle, Florida provides a natural RD location for Robot development. It is probable that the factory to produce the LENR power units for these robots will be located close to if not at Florida’s Mayport Naval Station and Jacksonville Naval Air Station. In 2007, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) revealed a program to develop technology for a UAV with an endurance capability of over 5 years. The program, entitled VULTURE (an acronym for Very-high altitude, Ultra-endurance, Loitering Theater Unmanned Reconnaissance Element), entered Phase II on September 14, 2010, with a contract signed with Boeing for development of the SolarEaglehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_SolarEagleflight demonstrator. If a LENR drone power plant is available, it would be a good backup power plant solution for the SolarEagle to increase its low attitude and surveillance instrumentation package c*a*pability. Is it a coincidence that Northrop Grumman received the Broad Area Maritime Surveillance contract and is also working on the nuclear drone? In DOD contracting parlance, such a serendipitous situation is called a discriminator. On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: I suspect the requirement for the 45 MW LENR systems originally came from the US Navy to power their aircraft carrier based drones. You don't need 45 MW for a drone! Okay, maybe for the upcoming X-47B drone, but you would not start with that. They would start with a small drone. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Rossi has stated that his 1 MW reactors was delivered to a military customer. As far as I know, the 1 MW reactor has not been delivered to anyone. It is still sitting there. I doubt it was purchased by the U.S. military. Maybe European military. Actually, I doubt it was purchased by anyone. I don't believe Rossi's assertions about his business. They change from week to week. He never says the same thing twice. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
Rossi must have made the sale to the US Navy because he has stopped looking for a major supportive money rich customer. And he has stopped complaining about a lack of money. Rossi has devoted much effort in downsizing his reactor core. I believe this effort was directed towards the requirements of his customer: the US Navy. Also, Rossi has stated that the customer is military. Rossi’s reactor is attractive to the US military because Rossi’s reactor core has a very high power density potential. The E-Cat catalyst (AKA secret sauce) reduces the size and weight of the LENR core by a factor of 100 over a non-catalyzed reactor. One gram of nickel in an E-Cat does the work of 100 grams in a non-catalyzed reactor (e.g. the Brillouin Energy system). This small and compact LENR 10 KW core cigarette pack sized form factor is attractive for airborne, mobile and boots on the ground military applications. This is why Rossi started the reactor core downsizing process after the 18 hour test. I believe he got a lot of help from Navy contractor experts from the kind of things he said during that timeframe about development progress. The US Navy would have accepted the Rossi reactor as a starting point for their own development of a miniaturized LENR core. No sane commercial customer would take the risk of such an immature product. The 1 Mw size equates to about 100 horsepower at 10% to15% solid state heat to electric conversion efficiency. I understand, you don’t want to believe that the Rossi reactor would slip into the black pit of military secrecy and lost to the real world; but it has and Rossi’s commercial product will only appear as a result of irresistible international commercial pressure placed on the US government to let the E-Cat of of the secrecy bag. This will take a lot of such pressure, however. The US military indulges Rossi’s fantasies about a commercialized product but I can’t see how they could give a potential adversary a leg up on such an important and even game changing military core technology. Regards: Axil On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 3:02 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Rossi has stated that his 1 MW reactors was delivered to a military customer. As far as I know, the 1 MW reactor has not been delivered to anyone. It is still sitting there. I doubt it was purchased by the U.S. military. Maybe European military. Actually, I doubt it was purchased by anyone. I don't believe Rossi's assertions about his business. They change from week to week. He never says the same thing twice. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Has anyone identified a change in one of the fuel ingredients? I am curious as to where the energy is derived. Hmmm . . . It does not say. I assume it is a conventional turbine, driven by kerosene. Aeroderivative turbine generators are the most efficient in the electric power biz. They are combined cycle; the waste heat from the turbine is used to boil water which drives a steam turbine. This article from Boeing says that batteries are nowhere near good enough for this airplane, but improvements are expected: http://www.boeing.com/Features/2010/06/corp_envision_06_14_10.html - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Rossi must have made the sale to the US Navy because he has stopped looking for a major supportive money rich customer. As far as I know he is still looking for money. I doubt anyone paid him a million bucks for that reactor. I doubt anyone bought it at all. Who would buy equipment for a million dollars just to leave it sitting in the factory for months?!? Rossi has devoted much effort in downsizing his reactor core. He hasn't downsized it as far as I know. Also, Rossi has stated that the customer is military. Yeah. I know. As I said, I don't believe what Rossi claims about his business. Last year he said he would never sell to the military, and now he says he has sold to them. He might have sold something to someone. Who knows? It might even be the U.S. military. I have no inside information. But I suspect that if he had sold something to them I would have heard about it. Also, when the U.S. Navy buys something for a million bucks, they usually take delivery. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
I wrote: He hasn't downsized it as far as I know. I mean the ratio of weight to power has not improved, which is what you need to improve for aviation apps. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
Taking delivery of the prototype is not necessary. What is necessary is to see the prototype work in self sustain mode…Yes it is real. Just to know that Rossi’s LENR technology is viable is all that the Navy requires. This is important to justify the Navy’s current E-Cat development effort. And the navy has extreme need and funding for long duration Drone capability. According to Rossi, uniformed US Naval officers witnessed Rossi’s early demos; do you think that if the Navy saw anything at all, they would let this technology fall into the hands of the Greeks or other nations-states. You must believe that if the Rossi reactor works to the least degree, the US Navy has it. They don’t intend to lose their next fight. Rossi says that President Obama is the greatest president of all times and he wants his invention to advance the American agenda. Such adoration for his country and its leader would have had to come from somewhere…a campaign add?…way to early… Rush Hudson Limbaugh …I don’t think so… what? If it were me, this kind of reaction can only come from personal contact; an ‘at a boy’ of some kind dispensed by the POTUS. This new revelation of presidential veneration leads me to suspect that at some time previous, Rossi was lead into the presence of the august American leader for a pat on the back and apresidential assurance of his value to the country. From this, Rossi may have gain a new sensitivity to the many and growing problems of the leader of his new country. This may have changed Rossi’s attitude to the defense needs of the United States. On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 4:00 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Rossi must have made the sale to the US Navy because he has stopped looking for a major supportive money rich customer. As far as I know he is still looking for money. I doubt anyone paid him a million bucks for that reactor. I doubt anyone bought it at all. Who would buy equipment for a million dollars just to leave it sitting in the factory for months?!? Rossi has devoted much effort in downsizing his reactor core. He hasn't downsized it as far as I know. Also, Rossi has stated that the customer is military. Yeah. I know. As I said, I don't believe what Rossi claims about his business. Last year he said he would never sell to the military, and now he says he has sold to them. He might have sold something to someone. Who knows? It might even be the U.S. military. I have no inside information. But I suspect that if he had sold something to them I would have heard about it. Also, when the U.S. Navy buys something for a million bucks, they usually take delivery. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Taking delivery of the prototype is not necessary. What is necessary is to see the prototype work in self sustain mode…Yes it is real. Just to know that Rossi’s LENR technology is viable is all that the Navy requires. I know several people in the Navy and Army. What you are saying is absurd. They do spend millions of dollars just to know something. If they purchased the machine, they would take to one of their facilities and run it with instrumentation to learn all about it. They would not let it sit there. Anyone with a million dollars to spend will take possession of the machine after paying for it. It would be insane not to. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
I meant they do NOT spend millions just to know. The whole idea is preposterous. If anyone in the press found out about such a thing, they would be dragged before Congress and everyone involved would be fired. Actually, any involvement in cold fusion at any level would be a scandal. But especially, buying something for a million bucks and leaving it at the factory untested is simple out of the question. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
Rossi says that President Obama is the greatest president of all times Now I am convinced Rossi is full of s)t! The rest of your analysis reads like a Tom Clancy novel and unfortunately i think Rossi's actions are better captured in the novel Matchstick Men. On Wednesday, April 18, 2012, Jed Rothwell wrote: I meant they do NOT spend millions just to know. The whole idea is preposterous. If anyone in the press found out about such a thing, they would be dragged before Congress and everyone involved would be fired. Actually, any involvement in cold fusion at any level would be a scandal. But especially, buying something for a million bucks and leaving it at the factory untested is simple out of the question. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
So your positions is that Rossi is lying about his customer, he is irrational, he has no product, his system does not work, he is a fraud. You can’t have it both ways. So sorry, you are faced with a no win situation. He has either sold his system to a military customer or he is a liar and a fraud. On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 6:08 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: I meant they do NOT spend millions just to know. The whole idea is preposterous. If anyone in the press found out about such a thing, they would be dragged before Congress and everyone involved would be fired. Actually, any involvement in cold fusion at any level would be a scandal. But especially, buying something for a million bucks and leaving it at the factory untested is simple out of the question. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
Your political predilections have forced a disconnect in the logic of your position. If Rossi has sold his system to a military customer, the requirements of the current military grand strategy of automating war fighting will force a Tom Clancy like development of Robot warriors. Do you think that E-Cats will heat out houses in Afghanistan? No way my friend. On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 7:15 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote: Rossi says that President Obama is the greatest president of all times Now I am convinced Rossi is full of s)t! The rest of your analysis reads like a Tom Clancy novel and unfortunately i think Rossi's actions are better captured in the novel Matchstick Men. On Wednesday, April 18, 2012, Jed Rothwell wrote: I meant they do NOT spend millions just to know. The whole idea is preposterous. If anyone in the press found out about such a thing, they would be dragged before Congress and everyone involved would be fired. Actually, any involvement in cold fusion at any level would be a scandal. But especially, buying something for a million bucks and leaving it at the factory untested is simple out of the question. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
“Actually, any involvement in cold fusion at any level would be a scandal. But especially, buying something for a million bucks and leaving it at the factory untested is simple out of the question.” The details of the development of intelligence gathering platforms are always protected from public and congressional oversight by the black budget process were only a total budgetary figure is available. The line item details are not available. The US Navy should have wide latitude in funding and payment mechanisms associated with LENR. On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 6:08 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: I meant they do NOT spend millions just to know. The whole idea is preposterous. If anyone in the press found out about such a thing, they would be dragged before Congress and everyone involved would be fired. Actually, any involvement in cold fusion at any level would be a scandal. But especially, buying something for a million bucks and leaving it at the factory untested is simple out of the question. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
FYI http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/02/pentagons-black-budget/ See for Yourself: The Pentagon’s $51 Billion ‘Black’ Budget On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 8:42 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: “Actually, any involvement in cold fusion at any level would be a scandal. But especially, buying something for a million bucks and leaving it at the factory untested is simple out of the question.” The details of the development of intelligence gathering platforms are always protected from public and congressional oversight by the black budget process were only a total budgetary figure is available. The line item details are not available. The US Navy should have wide latitude in funding and payment mechanisms associated with LENR. On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 6:08 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: I meant they do NOT spend millions just to know. The whole idea is preposterous. If anyone in the press found out about such a thing, they would be dragged before Congress and everyone involved would be fired. Actually, any involvement in cold fusion at any level would be a scandal. But especially, buying something for a million bucks and leaving it at the factory untested is simple out of the question. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: The details of the development of intelligence gathering platforms are always protected from public and congressional oversight by the black budget process were only a total budgetary figure is available. No, they are not. Programs are protected only because there are so many of them that Congressional oversight is overwhelmed. Some members of Congress, on some committees, can see anything they want. The hearings are kept secret, but the Representatives have full access. I am sure they would have access to the purchase order for a cold fusion reactor, since nothing about cold fusion is classified. It does not exist, according to the government. Furthermore, Washington is as a leaky as a sieve. If anyone, anywhere in the government bought a 1 MW cold fusion reactor, I am sure the news of it would reach Robert Park and the mass media in a few days. They would raise hell. This would be a tremendous scandal, on the scale of the Solandra bankruptcy. The administration knows that. They would NEVER approve such a thing. If someone did it secretly, that person would be fired, and hauled before a Congressional Investigation. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
Good idea. I think Taliban outhouses would be a good first testing ground
for Rossi's Device.
On Wednesday, April 18, 2012, Axil Axil wrote:
Your political predilections have forced a disconnect in the logic of your
position.
If Rossi has sold his system to a military customer, the requirements of
the current military grand strategy of automating war fighting will force a
Tom Clancy like development of Robot warriors.
Do you think that E-Cats will heat out houses in Afghanistan? No way my
friend.
On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 7:15 PM, Chemical Engineer
cheme...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'cheme...@gmail.com');
wrote:
Rossi says that President Obama is the greatest president of all times
Now I am convinced Rossi is full of s)t!
The rest of your analysis reads like a Tom Clancy novel and unfortunately
i think Rossi's actions are better captured in the novel Matchstick Men.
On Wednesday, April 18, 2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:
I meant they do NOT spend millions just to know.
The whole idea is preposterous. If anyone in the press found out about
such a thing, they would be dragged before Congress and everyone involved
would be fired.
Actually, any involvement in cold fusion at any level would be a
scandal. But especially, buying something for a million bucks and leaving
it at the factory untested is simple out of the question.
- Jed
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
I am amused at your naïve trust in the competency of the US Congress. The only thing the members are interested in is being reelected and getting pork for their district. Furthermore, Solandra was not a black project. If an inquiry on LENR by a member was to occur, that inquiry would itself be classified an no one would ever know about such an inquiry. “If someone did it secretly, that person would be fired, and hauled before a Congressional Investigation.” Oliver North did get fired, but that was related to an effort to save the job of the POTUS. . If the intent of the Navy is to keep LENR development secret, I would expect that the Navy would not take delivery of the prototype system to discredit their interest in Rossi’s technology. The US government will continue to discredit LENR. The only flaw in this secrecy strategy is that DGT has reversed engineered Rossi’s technology. In the end this will force LENR out of the Pentagon’s black bag. On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 8:56 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: The details of the development of intelligence gathering platforms are always protected from public and congressional oversight by the black budget process were only a total budgetary figure is available. No, they are not. Programs are protected only because there are so many of them that Congressional oversight is overwhelmed. Some members of Congress, on some committees, can see anything they want. The hearings are kept secret, but the Representatives have full access. I am sure they would have access to the purchase order for a cold fusion reactor, since nothing about cold fusion is classified. It does not exist, according to the government. Furthermore, Washington is as a leaky as a sieve. If anyone, anywhere in the government bought a 1 MW cold fusion reactor, I am sure the news of it would reach Robert Park and the mass media in a few days. They would raise hell. This would be a tremendous scandal, on the scale of the Solandra bankruptcy. The administration knows that. They would NEVER approve such a thing. If someone did it secretly, that person would be fired, and hauled before a Congressional Investigation. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: I am amused at your naïve trust in the competency of the US Congress. Please do not put words in my mouth, and do not use strawman arguments. I am not suggesting that the Congress is especially competent. However, I am familiar with the laws under which it operates. I know staff members there. I grew up in Washington and I knew Representatives. You are making assertions about how the Congress works which are FACTUALLY WRONG. Completely wrong. The so-called black budget is not secret from the Congress. It is kept secret from the public, not the Congress. If someone in the military purchased Rossi's reactor, that fact would be made known to members of Congress and their staff. Perhaps it would be lost in the noise, because the budget is so gigantic. But I doubt that. I think someone would notice. An hour later the shit would hit the fan and it would blanket the mass media. People everywhere would be screaming waste, fraud and abuse. Cold fusion is extremely unpopular. It has many powerful enemies. Most mass media reporters assume that the APS, the Scientific American, Robert Park and the Amazing Randi are correct, and all cold fusion scientists are scammers, criminals or lunatics. If word of a purchase got out, those would be the headlines, especially in media outlets opposed to the Administration. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Furthermore, Solandra was not a black project. If an inquiry on LENR by a member was to occur, that inquiry would itself be classified an no one would ever know about such an inquiry. A member meaning a member of Congress?!? Do you think the Pentagon can ignore an inquiry from Congress, or tell Congress it will not answer? That is not how it works. The Pentagon must respond. It would respond. It would give the information to a Representative who has security clearance and is sworn to keep it secret. The Pentagon can no more refuse to give Congress information than it it can refuse the President. If a member of Congress were to ask the Pentagon did you buy the Rossi reactor and the Pentagon did not answer promptly and honestly, that alone would a scandal. That would be in news. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
*A member meaning a member of Congress?!?”* Yes *“Do you think the Pentagon can ignore an inquiry from Congress, or tell Congress it will not answer? That is not how it works. The Pentagon must respond. It would respond. It would give the information to a Representative who has security clearance and is sworn to keep it secret. The Pentagon can no more refuse to give Congress information than it it can refuse the President.* *If a member of Congress were to ask the Pentagon did you buy the Rossi reactor and the Pentagon did not answer promptly and honestly, that alone would a scandal. That would be in news.?”* If all works like it is designed to, the congressional hearing would be held behind closed doors and the information would be kept secret. It is true that politicians for their own political benefit reveal state secrets. Take the case of Richard Bruce Dick Cheney for example. On October 18, 2005, The Washington Post reported that the vice president's office was central to the investigation of the Valerie Plame CIA leak scandal, for Cheney's former chief of staff, Lewis Scooter Libby, was one of the figures under investigation. Following an indictment, Libby resigned his positions as Cheney's chief of staff and assistant on national security affairs. On September 8, 2006, Richard Armitage, former Deputy Secretary of State, publicly announced that he was the source of the revelation of Plame's status. Armitage said he was not a part of a conspiracy to reveal Plame's identity and did not know whether one existed. In February 2006, The National Journal reported that Libby had stated before a grand jury that his superiors, including Cheney, had authorized him to disclose classified information to the press regarding intelligence on Iraq's weapons. On March 6, 2007, Libby was convicted on four felony counts for obstruction of justice, perjury, and making false statements to federal investigators. In his closing arguments, independent prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald said that there was a cloud over the vice president, an apparent reference to Cheney's interview with FBI agents investigating the case, which was made public in 2009. Cheney lobbied President George W. Bush vigorously and unsuccessfully to grant Libby a full Presidential pardon up to the day of Barack Obama's inauguration, likening Libby to a soldier on the battlefield For the sake of the country, let us pray that such wrongdoing by these lowlife politicians stops immediately. Regars: Axil On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 9:56 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Furthermore, Solandra was not a black project. If an inquiry on LENR by a member was to occur, that inquiry would itself be classified an no one would ever know about such an inquiry. A member meaning a member of Congress?!? Do you think the Pentagon can ignore an inquiry from Congress, or tell Congress it will not answer? That is not how it works. The Pentagon must respond. It would respond. It would give the information to a Representative who has security clearance and is sworn to keep it secret. The Pentagon can no more refuse to give Congress information than it it can refuse the President. If a member of Congress were to ask the Pentagon did you buy the Rossi reactor and the Pentagon did not answer promptly and honestly, that alone would a scandal. That would be in news. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Boeing Electric Airliner---LENR Application=???
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: If all works like it is designed to, the congressional hearing would be held behind closed doors and the information would be kept secret. Correct. But this would never be kept secret. It would be leaked to Fox News immediately, because it would hurt the administration. No member of Congress or staff member would be held to account. On the contrary, the Pentagon would be bashed for buying a fraudulent perpetual motion machine. It is true that politicians for their own political benefit reveal state secrets. Take the case of Richard Bruce Dick Cheney for example. . . . There are THOUSANDS of such cases. People in both parties do that all the time. Even during WWII, so much information about the atom bomb project was leaked that fairly detailed descriptions of the program reached some experts in Japan. It was just a matter of time before the whole thing leaked, especially after the first bomb was tested. Washington has always leaked. All in all, that is a good thing. It is necessary for the health of democracy. Military secrets only last a few years in the best of circumstances. All technical secrets -- military, commercial, or a trade secret -- are ephemeral. The cavity magnetron was one of the most important and closely guarded secrets of WWII. Arguably, it contributed more to allied victory than the atom bomb. It was not kept secret for long after the war. Nowadays you can find a cavity magnetron in just about every kitchen, in the microwave oven. Rossi's device may be forgotten, and lost to history, because Rossi himself is doing an effective job at hiding it and destroying his prospects to develop it. But it will NOT be lost because the U.S. military suppresses it. The military could no more do that than it could magically make everyone forget what a magnetron is. The Rossi reactor will not be forgotten because The Amazing Randi is going around telling people it is a scam, or because the oil companies oppose it. The only person capable of suppressing this discovery is Rossi himself. He is doing that more effectively than all the oil companies and stage magicians combined could do. - Jed
