Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
deserves to be made a human right. Pretty much every industrialized country except the United States made health care a basic right a long time ago. ONLY the United States views it as a business, for which profit comes first and results (or the illusion thereof) are merely a means to that end. BTW I have a good broker here in Massachusetts who gets me, as a sole proprietor, a small-business group rate that's well below the connector rate (the model for the exchanges, but really an assigned-risk pool). And it's tax deductible as a business expense. There could be similar plans in other states. But rates here are ridiculously high; thanks to state intervention and their refusal to allow this year's 18-30% rate increases, I'm only paying around $18k/year, though today's paper announced that there is likely to be a more modest negotiated increase this month. But hey, the hospital, insurance, and drug company executives are getting their bonuses and buying yachts, and isn't that what counts the most? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Cameron Crum To: WISPA General List Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance Negotiate directly with your doctor or the hospital. I've been cash pay for years. About a year and a half ago, my then 2 year old got outside un-noticed and fell into our pool. He was at the bottom when we found him and my wife, being a trained lifegaurd, was able to perform cpr and get his pulse and breath back. That combined with the cold temperature of the water (early december), and the grace of God left him with no brain damage or permanent problems. Our trip to the ermergency room plus overnight stay in the hospital was more than $12,000. I negotiated with the hospital, the doctors, and the ambulance company (all different bills) to get my bill down to less than $5000. It took about 1 hour of my time. Had I had insurance, I would have had to pay the full $5000 or $1 deductable. So in this case it worked out for me. My family is extrememly healthy. Our kids go to the doctor maybe once a year and I can't remember the last time I saw a doctor. My wife just had arthoscopic surgurery on knee in the spring and agian, paying cash, I walked away with about a 50% dicount. As we get older, I'll probably consider getting insurance as age typically means more trips to the doc. and on average it will become cheaper to pay the insurance bills than to fund it in cash. I don't know what age that will be, but I'll keep you guys posted... Cameron On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 10:02 AM, RickGrgunder...@gmail.com wrote: How do you negotiate that? I've tried and they same we pay their standard rate. After moving back to health insurance, we always see a discount, especially on in network doctors. On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 12:34 AM, Blake Bowersbbow...@mozarks.com wrote: We are cash pay. Regular DR visits are half of what the quoted rate is. Hospital is pretty much the same way. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Faisal Imtiazfai...@snappydsl.net To:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance That is very interesting... it is the first time I am hearing as such... Our experience has been on the contrary... Without the insurance company's pre-netogitated discounts, it is impossible to get a reasonable bill.. more like.. They stick to you as a cash paying customer.. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 7/30/2010 9:20 PM, Roger Howard wrote: I had a friend who had a triple heart bypass. They gave him the bill for loadsa money, assuming he would pay it over a long period of time. When he said he was paying cash outright, it cost a tiny fraction of the amount the bill was for. -- Fred Goldstein k1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
having to come up with a few hundred thousand out of pocket. Often cash pay translates to... if you have a serious illness, you cant afford to chose to live. I dont mean to be bleak, but that is the reality of it. Sure, I understand that some for financial reasons must choose to fore go insurance. But I'd surely prefer to find more affordable insurance, than fore go insurance. Affording Healthcare is surely a big issue today. I actually find it somewhat ironic that some countries have made broadband a human right. I'd argue that healthcare (aka affordable insurance) far more deserves to be made a human right. Pretty much every industrialized country except the United States made health care a basic right a long time ago. ONLY the United States views it as a business, for which profit comes first and results (or the illusion thereof) are merely a means to that end. BTW I have a good broker here in Massachusetts who gets me, as a sole proprietor, a small-business group rate that's well below the connector rate (the model for the exchanges, but really an assigned-risk pool). And it's tax deductible as a business expense. There could be similar plans in other states. But rates here are ridiculously high; thanks to state intervention and their refusal to allow this year's 18-30% rate increases, I'm only paying around $18k/year, though today's paper announced that there is likely to be a more modest negotiated increase this month. But hey, the hospital, insurance, and drug company executives are getting their bonuses and buying yachts, and isn't that what counts the most? Tom DeReggi RapidDSLWireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Cameron Crum To: WISPA General List Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance Negotiate directly with your doctor or the hospital. I've been cash pay for years. About a year and a half ago, my then 2 year old got outside un-noticed and fell into our pool. He was at the bottom when we found him and my wife, being a trained lifegaurd, was able to perform cpr and get his pulse and breath back. That combined with the cold temperature of the water (early december), and the grace of God left him with no brain damage or permanent problems. Our trip to the ermergency room plus overnight stay in the hospital was more than $12,000. I negotiated with the hospital, the doctors, and the ambulance company (all different bills) to get my bill down to less than $5000. It took about 1 hour of my time. Had I had insurance, I would have had to pay the full $5000 or $1 deductable. So in this case it worked out for me. My family is extrememly healthy. Our kids go to the doctor maybe once a year and I can't remember the last time I saw a doctor. My wife just had arthoscopic surgurery on knee in the spring and agian, paying cash, I walked away with about a 50% dicount. As we get older, I'll probably consider getting insurance as age typically means more trips to the doc. and on average it will become cheaper to pay the insurance bills than to fund it in cash. I don't know what age that will be, but I'll keep you guys posted... Cameron On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 10:02 AM, RickGrgunder...@gmail.comwrote: How do you negotiate that? I've tried and they same we pay their standard rate. After moving back to health insurance, we always see a discount, especially on in network doctors. On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 12:34 AM, Blake Bowersbbow...@mozarks.com wrote: We are cash pay. Regular DR visits are half of what the quoted rate is. Hospital is pretty much the same way. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Faisal Imtiazfai...@snappydsl.net To:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance That is very interesting... it is the first time I am hearing as such... Our experience has been on the contrary... Without the insurance company's pre-netogitated discounts, it is impossible to get a reasonable bill.. more like.. They stick to you as a cash paying customer.. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 7/30/2010 9:20 PM, Roger Howard wrote: I had a friend who had a triple heart bypass. They gave him the bill for loadsa money, assuming he would pay it over a long period of time. When he said he was paying cash outright, it cost a tiny fraction of the amount the bill was for. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consultinghttp://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
That's why you carry a strictly catastrophic health-care policy to cover when you can't. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 8/3/2010 12:44 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote: yeah, cash pay works, until you get a stroke, heart attack, cancer, etc Even when you have good insurance, it can mean still having to come up with a few hundred thousand out of pocket. Often cash pay translates to... if you have a serious illness, you cant afford to chose to live. I dont mean to be bleak, but that is the reality of it. Sure, I understand that some for financial reasons must choose to fore go insurance. But I'd surely prefer to find more affordable insurance, than fore go insurance. Affording Healthcare is surely a big issue today. I actually find it somewhat ironic that some countries have made broadband a human right. I'd argue that healthcare (aka affordable insurance) far more deserves to be made a human right. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - *From:* Cameron Crum mailto:cc...@wispmon.com *To:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Saturday, July 31, 2010 5:56 PM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance Negotiate directly with your doctor or the hospital. I've been cash pay for years. About a year and a half ago, my then 2 year old got outside un-noticed and fell into our pool. He was at the bottom when we found him and my wife, being a trained lifegaurd, was able to perform cpr and get his pulse and breath back. That combined with the cold temperature of the water (early december), and the grace of God left him with no brain damage or permanent problems. Our trip to the ermergency room plus overnight stay in the hospital was more than $12,000. I negotiated with the hospital, the doctors, and the ambulance company (all different bills) to get my bill down to less than $5000. It took about 1 hour of my time. Had I had insurance, I would have had to pay the full $5000 or $1 deductable. So in this case it worked out for me. My family is extrememly healthy. Our kids go to the doctor maybe once a year and I can't remember the last time I saw a doctor. My wife just had arthoscopic surgurery on knee in the spring and agian, paying cash, I walked away with about a 50% dicount. As we get older, I'll probably consider getting insurance as age typically means more trips to the doc. and on average it will become cheaper to pay the insurance bills than to fund it in cash. I don't know what age that will be, but I'll keep you guys posted... Cameron On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 10:02 AM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com mailto:rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: How do you negotiate that? I've tried and they same we pay their standard rate. After moving back to health insurance, we always see a discount, especially on in network doctors. On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 12:34 AM, Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com mailto:bbow...@mozarks.com wrote: We are cash pay. Regular DR visits are half of what the quoted rate is. Hospital is pretty much the same way. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net mailto:fai...@snappydsl.net To: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance That is very interesting... it is the first time I am hearing as such... Our experience has been on the contrary... Without the insurance company's pre-netogitated discounts, it is impossible to get a reasonable bill.. more like.. They stick to you as a cash paying customer.. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 7/30/2010 9:20 PM, Roger Howard wrote: I had a friend who had a triple heart bypass. They gave him the bill for loadsa money, assuming he would pay it over a long period of time. When he said he was paying cash outright, it cost a tiny fraction of the amount the bill was for. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
In addition to that those that don't have health insurance and go to the hospital, cause increases in insurance and hospital fees for all of us. Part of the reason insurance is so expensive is that the hospitals are only collecting .04 on the $1. Essentially, for every 1 person that pays 24 people do not. That's why a Tylenol costs $10, because they have to make it up on the people that can afford to pay. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance yeah, cash pay works, until you get a stroke, heart attack, cancer, etc Even when you have good insurance, it can mean still having to come up with a few hundred thousand out of pocket. Often cash pay translates to... if you have a serious illness, you cant afford to chose to live. I dont mean to be bleak, but that is the reality of it. Sure, I understand that some for financial reasons must choose to fore go insurance. But I'd surely prefer to find more affordable insurance, than fore go insurance. Affording Healthcare is surely a big issue today. I actually find it somewhat ironic that some countries have made broadband a human right. I'd argue that healthcare (aka affordable insurance) far more deserves to be made a human right. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Cameron Crum mailto:cc...@wispmon.com To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance Negotiate directly with your doctor or the hospital. I've been cash pay for years. About a year and a half ago, my then 2 year old got outside un-noticed and fell into our pool. He was at the bottom when we found him and my wife, being a trained lifegaurd, was able to perform cpr and get his pulse and breath back. That combined with the cold temperature of the water (early december), and the grace of God left him with no brain damage or permanent problems. Our trip to the ermergency room plus overnight stay in the hospital was more than $12,000. I negotiated with the hospital, the doctors, and the ambulance company (all different bills) to get my bill down to less than $5000. It took about 1 hour of my time. Had I had insurance, I would have had to pay the full $5000 or $1 deductable. So in this case it worked out for me. My family is extrememly healthy. Our kids go to the doctor maybe once a year and I can't remember the last time I saw a doctor. My wife just had arthoscopic surgurery on knee in the spring and agian, paying cash, I walked away with about a 50% dicount. As we get older, I'll probably consider getting insurance as age typically means more trips to the doc. and on average it will become cheaper to pay the insurance bills than to fund it in cash. I don't know what age that will be, but I'll keep you guys posted... Cameron On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 10:02 AM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: How do you negotiate that? I've tried and they same we pay their standard rate. After moving back to health insurance, we always see a discount, especially on in network doctors. On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 12:34 AM, Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com wrote: We are cash pay. Regular DR visits are half of what the quoted rate is. Hospital is pretty much the same way. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance That is very interesting... it is the first time I am hearing as such... Our experience has been on the contrary... Without the insurance company's pre-netogitated discounts, it is impossible to get a reasonable bill.. more like.. They stick to you as a cash paying customer.. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 7/30/2010 9:20 PM, Roger Howard wrote: I had a friend who had a triple heart bypass. They gave him the bill for loadsa money, assuming he would pay it over a long period of time. When he said he was paying cash outright, it cost a tiny fraction of the amount the bill
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 06:30, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: In addition to that those that don’t have health insurance and go to the hospital, cause increases in insurance and hospital fees for all of us. Part of the reason insurance is so expensive is that the hospitals are only collecting .04 on the $1. Essentially, for every 1 person that pays 24 people do not. That’s why a Tylenol costs $10, because they have to make it up on the people that can afford to pay. Source? David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
At 8/3/2010 01:44 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote: yeah, cash pay works, until you get a stroke, heart attack, cancer, etc Even when you have good insurance, it can mean still having to come up with a few hundred thousand out of pocket. Often cash pay translates to... if you have a serious illness, you cant afford to chose to live. I dont mean to be bleak, but that is the reality of it. Sure, I understand that some for financial reasons must choose to fore go insurance. But I'd surely prefer to find more affordable insurance, than fore go insurance. Affording Healthcare is surely a big issue today. I actually find it somewhat ironic that some countries have made broadband a human right. I'd argue that healthcare (aka affordable insurance) far more deserves to be made a human right. Pretty much every industrialized country except the United States made health care a basic right a long time ago. ONLY the United States views it as a business, for which profit comes first and results (or the illusion thereof) are merely a means to that end. BTW I have a good broker here in Massachusetts who gets me, as a sole proprietor, a small-business group rate that's well below the connector rate (the model for the exchanges, but really an assigned-risk pool). And it's tax deductible as a business expense. There could be similar plans in other states. But rates here are ridiculously high; thanks to state intervention and their refusal to allow this year's 18-30% rate increases, I'm only paying around $18k/year, though today's paper announced that there is likely to be a more modest negotiated increase this month. But hey, the hospital, insurance, and drug company executives are getting their bonuses and buying yachts, and isn't that what counts the most? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: mailto:cc...@wispmon.comCameron Crum To: mailto:wireless@wispa.orgWISPA General List Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance Negotiate directly with your doctor or the hospital. I've been cash pay for years. About a year and a half ago, my then 2 year old got outside un-noticed and fell into our pool. He was at the bottom when we found him and my wife, being a trained lifegaurd, was able to perform cpr and get his pulse and breath back. That combined with the cold temperature of the water (early december), and the grace of God left him with no brain damage or permanent problems. Our trip to the ermergency room plus overnight stay in the hospital was more than $12,000. I negotiated with the hospital, the doctors, and the ambulance company (all different bills) to get my bill down to less than $5000. It took about 1 hour of my time. Had I had insurance, I would have had to pay the full $5000 or $1 deductable. So in this case it worked out for me. My family is extrememly healthy. Our kids go to the doctor maybe once a year and I can't remember the last time I saw a doctor. My wife just had arthoscopic surgurery on knee in the spring and agian, paying cash, I walked away with about a 50% dicount. As we get older, I'll probably consider getting insurance as age typically means more trips to the doc. and on average it will become cheaper to pay the insurance bills than to fund it in cash. I don't know what age that will be, but I'll keep you guys posted... Cameron On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 10:02 AM, RickG mailto:rgunder...@gmail.comrgunder...@gmail.com wrote: How do you negotiate that? I've tried and they same we pay their standard rate. After moving back to health insurance, we always see a discount, especially on in network doctors. On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 12:34 AM, Blake Bowers mailto:bbow...@mozarks.combbow...@mozarks.com wrote: We are cash pay. Regular DR visits are half of what the quoted rate is. Hospital is pretty much the same way. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Faisal Imtiaz mailto:fai...@snappydsl.netfai...@snappydsl.net To: mailto:wireless@wispa.orgwireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance That is very interesting... it is the first time I am hearing as such... Our experience has been on the contrary... Without the insurance company's pre-netogitated discounts, it is impossible to get a reasonable bill.. more like.. They stick to you as a cash paying customer.. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 7/30/2010 9:20 PM, Roger Howard wrote: I had a friend who had a triple heart bypass. They gave him the bill for loadsa money, assuming he would pay it over a long period of time. When he said he was paying cash outright, it cost a tiny fraction of the amount the bill was for. -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
With all dues respect, we ALL NOW have the accessibility to health care! In addition, we're supposed to be a FREE country, at least the freest (pardon the slang). Meaning that we are free to do as we please unless it affects others. Forcing people to buy health insurance or pay for others is not in line with what our country stands for. As far as other countries go, I lived in Australia for over a year. My wife has some health issues and we got to see first hand how government run health care works - NOT GOOD to say the least. They could care less. I almost sent her back to the states but fortunately the problems were not as severe as originally thought. We kissed the ground when we got back to America! Never had I been so glad to pay our monthly health insurance premiums! As far as the executives getting huge bonuses, etc. They just need more competition. Unfortunately, government regulations prevent it. I agree that our current system is broke but like many issues, they answer is NOT government. In Kentucky, I can only chose from two providers. How about drop the regulations that prevent others from entering our market and let the price war begin? Everyone should understand what our constitution provides as unalienable rights and what is does NOT! http://www.unalienable.com IMHO, and after reading our Forefathers works, broadband is not a right, and certainly not a unalienable right and neither is health care! Of course, we could give up those rights and become serfs with no choice but poor health care and watch the elite as they pay themselves huge bonuses, yachts, and other luxuries. -Rick Gunderson On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: At 8/3/2010 01:44 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote: yeah, cash pay works, until you get a stroke, heart attack, cancer, etc Even when you have good insurance, it can mean still having to come up with a few hundred thousand out of pocket. Often cash pay translates to... if you have a serious illness, you cant afford to chose to live. I dont mean to be bleak, but that is the reality of it. Sure, I understand that some for financial reasons must choose to fore go insurance. But I'd surely prefer to find more affordable insurance, than fore go insurance. Affording Healthcare is surely a big issue today. I actually find it somewhat ironic that some countries have made broadband a human right. I'd argue that healthcare (aka affordable insurance) far more deserves to be made a human right. Pretty much every industrialized country except the United States made health care a basic right a long time ago. ONLY the United States views it as a business, for which profit comes first and results (or the illusion thereof) are merely a means to that end. BTW I have a good broker here in Massachusetts who gets me, as a sole proprietor, a small-business group rate that's well below the connector rate (the model for the exchanges, but really an assigned-risk pool). And it's tax deductible as a business expense. There could be similar plans in other states. But rates here are ridiculously high; thanks to state intervention and their refusal to allow this year's 18-30% rate increases, I'm only paying around $18k/year, though today's paper announced that there is likely to be a more modest negotiated increase this month. But hey, the hospital, insurance, and drug company executives are getting their bonuses and buying yachts, and isn't that what counts the most? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Cameron Crum To: WISPA General List Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance Negotiate directly with your doctor or the hospital. I've been cash pay for years. About a year and a half ago, my then 2 year old got outside un-noticed and fell into our pool. He was at the bottom when we found him and my wife, being a trained lifegaurd, was able to perform cpr and get his pulse and breath back. That combined with the cold temperature of the water (early december), and the grace of God left him with no brain damage or permanent problems. Our trip to the ermergency room plus overnight stay in the hospital was more than $12,000. I negotiated with the hospital, the doctors, and the ambulance company (all different bills) to get my bill down to less than $5000. It took about 1 hour of my time. Had I had insurance, I would have had to pay the full $5000 or $1 deductable. So in this case it worked out for me. My family is extrememly healthy. Our kids go to the doctor maybe once a year and I can't remember the last time I saw a doctor. My wife just had arthoscopic surgurery on knee in the spring and agian, paying cash, I walked away with about a 50% dicount. As we get older, I'll probably consider getting insurance as age typically means more trips to the doc. and on average it will become
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
This is not the list to debate those issues, so let's cut it off now. At 8/3/2010 12:45 PM, RickG wrote: With all dues respect, we ALL NOW have the accessibility to health care! In addition, we're supposed to be a FREE country, at least the freest (pardon the slang). Meaning that we are free to do as we please unless it affects others. Forcing people to buy health insurance or pay for others is not in line with what our country stands for. As far as other countries go, I lived in Australia for over a year. My wife has some health issues and we got to see first hand how government run health care works - NOT GOOD to say the least. They could care less. I almost sent her back to the states but fortunately the problems were not as severe as originally thought. We kissed the ground when we got back to America! Never had I been so glad to pay our monthly health insurance premiums! As far as the executives getting huge bonuses, etc. They just need more competition. Unfortunately, government regulations prevent it. I agree that our current system is broke but like many issues, they answer is NOT government. In Kentucky, I can only chose from two providers. How about drop the regulations that prevent others from entering our market and let the price war begin? Everyone should understand what our constitution provides as unalienable rights and what is does NOT! http://www.unalienable.com IMHO, and after reading our Forefathers works, broadband is not a right, and certainly not a unalienable right and neither is health care! Of course, we could give up those rights and become serfs with no choice but poor health care and watch the elite as they pay themselves huge bonuses, yachts, and other luxuries. -Rick Gunderson On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: At 8/3/2010 01:44 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote: yeah, cash pay works, until you get a stroke, heart attack, cancer, etc Even when you have good insurance, it can mean still having to come up with a few hundred thousand out of pocket. Often cash pay translates to... if you have a serious illness, you cant afford to chose to live. I dont mean to be bleak, but that is the reality of it. Sure, I understand that some for financial reasons must choose to fore go insurance. But I'd surely prefer to find more affordable insurance, than fore go insurance. Affording Healthcare is surely a big issue today. I actually find it somewhat ironic that some countries have made broadband a human right. I'd argue that healthcare (aka affordable insurance) far more deserves to be made a human right. Pretty much every industrialized country except the United States made health care a basic right a long time ago. ONLY the United States views it as a business, for which profit comes first and results (or the illusion thereof) are merely a means to that end. BTW I have a good broker here in Massachusetts who gets me, as a sole proprietor, a small-business group rate that's well below the connector rate (the model for the exchanges, but really an assigned-risk pool). And it's tax deductible as a business expense. There could be similar plans in other states. But rates here are ridiculously high; thanks to state intervention and their refusal to allow this year's 18-30% rate increases, I'm only paying around $18k/year, though today's paper announced that there is likely to be a more modest negotiated increase this month. But hey, the hospital, insurance, and drug company executives are getting their bonuses and buying yachts, and isn't that what counts the most? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Cameron Crum To: WISPA General List Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance Negotiate directly with your doctor or the hospital. I've been cash pay for years. About a year and a half ago, my then 2 year old got outside un-noticed and fell into our pool. He was at the bottom when we found him and my wife, being a trained lifegaurd, was able to perform cpr and get his pulse and breath back. That combined with the cold temperature of the water (early december), and the grace of God left him with no brain damage or permanent problems. Our trip to the ermergency room plus overnight stay in the hospital was more than $12,000. I negotiated with the hospital, the doctors, and the ambulance company (all different bills) to get my bill down to less than $5000. It took about 1 hour of my time. Had I had insurance, I would have had to pay the full $5000 or $1 deductable. So in this case it worked out for me. My family is extrememly healthy. Our kids go to the doctor maybe once a year and I can't remember the last time I saw a doctor. My wife just had arthoscopic surgurery on knee in the spring and agian, paying cash, I
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
Rick, Can we nip this in the butt right now? The discussion was to see if it was feasible for WISPA to look at a group rate for health care, it is now evolving into a political discussion. Political discussions usually degrade into undesirable threads which make people mad and ultimately cause one or more to ask to be unsubscribed from the Members list. We consider that a sad loss because they won't get the benefit of the many discussions we have that have to do with being a WISP just because someone wanted to spread their own political views. We are not an advocacy for political causes other than for more spectrum and better rules for WISP's. You obviously wanted to spread your views all across our lists having cc'd this to two WISPA lists, their fine for lists that advocate politics but not here. I'd like to ask the brakes to be put on here so we can return to the business of being a WISP driven list on helping other WISP's, I appreciate you respecting this request. Forbes Mercy Promotion Committee Chair On 8/3/2010 9:45 AM, RickG wrote: With all dues respect, we ALL NOW have the accessibility to health care! In addition, we're supposed to be a FREE country, at least the freest (pardon the slang). Meaning that we are free to do as we please unless it affects others. Forcing people to buy health insurance or pay for others is not in line with what our country stands for. As far as other countries go, I lived in Australia for over a year. My wife has some health issues and we got to see first hand how government run health care works - NOT GOOD to say the least. They could care less. I almost sent her back to the states but fortunately the problems were not as severe as originally thought. We kissed the ground when we got back to America! Never had I been so glad to pay our monthly health insurance premiums! As far as the executives getting huge bonuses, etc. They just need more competition. Unfortunately, government regulations prevent it. I agree that our current system is broke but like many issues, they answer is NOT government. In Kentucky, I can only chose from two providers. How about drop the regulations that prevent others from entering our market and let the price war begin? Everyone should understand what our constitution provides as unalienable rights and what is does NOT! http://www.unalienable.com IMHO, and after reading our Forefathers works, broadband is not a right, and certainly not a unalienable right and neither is health care! Of course, we could give up those rights and become serfs with no choice but poor health care and watch the elite as they pay themselves huge bonuses, yachts, and other luxuries. -Rick Gunderson On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Fred Goldsteinfgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: At 8/3/2010 01:44 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote: yeah, cash pay works, until you get a stroke, heart attack, cancer, etc Even when you have good insurance, it can mean still having to come up with a few hundred thousand out of pocket. Often cash pay translates to... if you have a serious illness, you cant afford to chose to live. I dont mean to be bleak, but that is the reality of it. Sure, I understand that some for financial reasons must choose to fore go insurance. But I'd surely prefer to find more affordable insurance, than fore go insurance. Affording Healthcare is surely a big issue today. I actually find it somewhat ironic that some countries have made broadband a human right. I'd argue that healthcare (aka affordable insurance) far more deserves to be made a human right. Pretty much every industrialized country except the United States made health care a basic right a long time ago. ONLY the United States views it as a business, for which profit comes first and results (or the illusion thereof) are merely a means to that end. BTW I have a good broker here in Massachusetts who gets me, as a sole proprietor, a small-business group rate that's well below the connector rate (the model for the exchanges, but really an assigned-risk pool). And it's tax deductible as a business expense. There could be similar plans in other states. But rates here are ridiculously high; thanks to state intervention and their refusal to allow this year's 18-30% rate increases, I'm only paying around $18k/year, though today's paper announced that there is likely to be a more modest negotiated increase this month. But hey, the hospital, insurance, and drug company executives are getting their bonuses and buying yachts, and isn't that what counts the most? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Cameron Crum To: WISPA General List Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance Negotiate directly with your doctor or the hospital. I've been cash pay for years. About a year and a half ago, my then 2 year old
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
While I love a debate - not sure this is the place. So - back to the question at hand - and I think a simple yes/no would most likely help Rick move fwd. 1. If your a WISP - would you be interested in a group rate vs going @ it alone for health insurance? with a highly political issue like this - we can get muddied in the fray here... but putting politics aside - Can you use a group rate? Would you be interested ? I think thats what he is trying to find out. Glenn On Aug 3, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Fred Goldstein wrote: This is not the list to debate those issues, so let's cut it off now. At 8/3/2010 12:45 PM, RickG wrote: With all dues respect, we ALL NOW have the accessibility to health care! In addition, we're supposed to be a FREE country, at least the freest (pardon the slang). Meaning that we are free to do as we please unless it affects others. Forcing people to buy health insurance or pay for others is not in line with what our country stands for. As far as other countries go, I lived in Australia for over a year. My wife has some health issues and we got to see first hand how government run health care works - NOT GOOD to say the least. They could care less. I almost sent her back to the states but fortunately the problems were not as severe as originally thought. We kissed the ground when we got back to America! Never had I been so glad to pay our monthly health insurance premiums! As far as the executives getting huge bonuses, etc. They just need more competition. Unfortunately, government regulations prevent it. I agree that our current system is broke but like many issues, they answer is NOT government. In Kentucky, I can only chose from two providers. How about drop the regulations that prevent others from entering our market and let the price war begin? Everyone should understand what our constitution provides as unalienable rights and what is does NOT! http://www.unalienable.com IMHO, and after reading our Forefathers works, broadband is not a right, and certainly not a unalienable right and neither is health care! Of course, we could give up those rights and become serfs with no choice but poor health care and watch the elite as they pay themselves huge bonuses, yachts, and other luxuries. -Rick Gunderson On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: At 8/3/2010 01:44 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote: yeah, cash pay works, until you get a stroke, heart attack, cancer, etc Even when you have good insurance, it can mean still having to come up with a few hundred thousand out of pocket. Often cash pay translates to... if you have a serious illness, you cant afford to chose to live. I dont mean to be bleak, but that is the reality of it. Sure, I understand that some for financial reasons must choose to fore go insurance. But I'd surely prefer to find more affordable insurance, than fore go insurance. Affording Healthcare is surely a big issue today. I actually find it somewhat ironic that some countries have made broadband a human right. I'd argue that healthcare (aka affordable insurance) far more deserves to be made a human right. Pretty much every industrialized country except the United States made health care a basic right a long time ago. ONLY the United States views it as a business, for which profit comes first and results (or the illusion thereof) are merely a means to that end. BTW I have a good broker here in Massachusetts who gets me, as a sole proprietor, a small-business group rate that's well below the connector rate (the model for the exchanges, but really an assigned-risk pool). And it's tax deductible as a business expense. There could be similar plans in other states. But rates here are ridiculously high; thanks to state intervention and their refusal to allow this year's 18-30% rate increases, I'm only paying around $18k/year, though today's paper announced that there is likely to be a more modest negotiated increase this month. But hey, the hospital, insurance, and drug company executives are getting their bonuses and buying yachts, and isn't that what counts the most? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Cameron Crum To: WISPA General List Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance Negotiate directly with your doctor or the hospital. I've been cash pay for years. About a year and a half ago, my then 2 year old got outside un-noticed and fell into our pool. He was at the bottom when we found him and my wife, being a trained lifegaurd, was able to perform cpr and get his pulse and breath back. That combined with the cold temperature of the water (early december), and the grace of God left him with no brain damage or permanent problems. Our trip to the ermergency room plus overnight stay in the hospital was more
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
I have limited sympathy with your comments for a simple reason...Health Care IS NOW a political topic.So is broadband. So is internet network operations. So is bandwidth control, so is hiring someone, so is firing someone, so are the money management choices you make, so is retirement, so are benefits, so are, well, dang near every aspect of our business lives. I'd say none of us, at least the smaller guys, asked for any of this to be brought upon us.20 years ago, hardly a single thing mentioned above was or had ANY political concerns, and now, they're all political, and rarely are the political concerns going to bring about wise or prudent outcomes. This has been pushed upon us, by interests not in our favor, and those interests are not going away, nor are they moderating in the slightest. In fact, they are intent upon making MUCH more of our businesses and lives political. Yes, there are simple dollar value equations to some aspects of employer based health care, but some of it's purely political now.Any discussion of bandwidth management and application prioritization necessitates a weighing and ultimately making judgments about political things. Even arguments over what the politics actually means and how far it intends to reach and how much it legally CAN reach. Which ultimately brings us to the point where we discuss the topic of health care the same way we discuss customers who use the CD tray as a coffee cup holder, or expect us to do miracles, on a budget of dander and fluff - and that discussion is by necessity as much political as moral, logical, ethical. So you want us to NOT express our opinions on the nature of the political intrusions into our business.Might as well say that we can't express opinion about cranky customers, or which operating system is best on SBC's or how to manage a network. By necessity, these things are all relevant, as are our opinions of them. But so, too, the political aspects of our business, must be at least some what legitimate to discuss, lest we as a group by default follow a political course with no discussion or even consideration to where that leads us. It would be reasonable and proper to ask to keep such discussions relevant and topically accurate, and to try to keep this from degenerating into a political flame war. More importantly, it is necessary that respect be given to those who don't agree with your opinion, and that the there is only one default and acceptable opinion - that which is politically correct and I see that happen in a lot of places these days. And usually, that opinion and default position is utterly indefensible, but is never challenged, due to the powers that be preventing dissent. I would prefer that our discussions were not about politics. But they have to be, since politics has invited itself into darn near every aspect of our business.I'd say there's a powerful lesson there... but that would be ideological, huh. Sigh. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:45 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; memb...@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance Rick, Can we nip this in the butt right now? The discussion was to see if it was feasible for WISPA to look at a group rate for health care, it is now evolving into a political discussion. Political discussions usually degrade into undesirable threads which make people mad and ultimately cause one or more to ask to be unsubscribed from the Members list. We consider that a sad loss because they won't get the benefit of the many discussions we have that have to do with being a WISP just because someone wanted to spread their own political views. We are not an advocacy for political causes other than for more spectrum and better rules for WISP's. You obviously wanted to spread your views all across WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
Anyone got a 10-foot-pole that I could use to NOT touch this with? Anyone? Anyone? - Original Message - From: MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 4:26 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance I have limited sympathy with your comments for a simple reason...Health Care IS NOW a political topic.So is broadband. So is internet network operations. So is bandwidth control, so is hiring someone, so is firing someone, so are the money management choices you make, so is retirement, so are benefits, so are, well, dang near every aspect of our business lives. I'd say none of us, at least the smaller guys, asked for any of this to be brought upon us.20 years ago, hardly a single thing mentioned above was or had ANY political concerns, and now, they're all political, and rarely are the political concerns going to bring about wise or prudent outcomes. This has been pushed upon us, by interests not in our favor, and those interests are not going away, nor are they moderating in the slightest. In fact, they are intent upon making MUCH more of our businesses and lives political. Yes, there are simple dollar value equations to some aspects of employer based health care, but some of it's purely political now.Any discussion of bandwidth management and application prioritization necessitates a weighing and ultimately making judgments about political things. Even arguments over what the politics actually means and how far it intends to reach and how much it legally CAN reach. Which ultimately brings us to the point where we discuss the topic of health care the same way we discuss customers who use the CD tray as a coffee cup holder, or expect us to do miracles, on a budget of dander and fluff - and that discussion is by necessity as much political as moral, logical, ethical. So you want us to NOT express our opinions on the nature of the political intrusions into our business.Might as well say that we can't express opinion about cranky customers, or which operating system is best on SBC's or how to manage a network. By necessity, these things are all relevant, as are our opinions of them. But so, too, the political aspects of our business, must be at least some what legitimate to discuss, lest we as a group by default follow a political course with no discussion or even consideration to where that leads us. It would be reasonable and proper to ask to keep such discussions relevant and topically accurate, and to try to keep this from degenerating into a political flame war. More importantly, it is necessary that respect be given to those who don't agree with your opinion, and that the there is only one default and acceptable opinion - that which is politically correct and I see that happen in a lot of places these days. And usually, that opinion and default position is utterly indefensible, but is never challenged, due to the powers that be preventing dissent. I would prefer that our discussions were not about politics. But they have to be, since politics has invited itself into darn near every aspect of our business.I'd say there's a powerful lesson there... but that would be ideological, huh. Sigh. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:45 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; memb...@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance Rick, Can we nip this in the butt right now? The discussion was to see if it was feasible for WISPA to look at a group rate for health care, it is now evolving into a political discussion. Political discussions usually degrade into undesirable threads which make people mad and ultimately cause one or more to ask to be unsubscribed from the Members list. We consider that a sad loss because they won't get the benefit of the many discussions we have that have to do with being a WISP just because someone wanted to spread their own political views. We are not an advocacy for political causes other than for more spectrum and better rules for WISP's. You obviously wanted to spread your views all across WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
At 8/3/2010 07:39 PM, Mark Nash - Lists wrote: Anyone got a 10-foot-pole that I could use to NOT touch this with? Anyone? Anyone? It was suggested that we get hold of some of those hollow fiberglass insulating poles that electric linemen use for remotely pushing around the primary wires (15-25kV) atop the poles. By mounting an antenna at one end and putting that above the primary, we could put the radios themselves at the other end, in the safe comms space. That's about what would be needed for this discussion. IMHO it's relevant to talk about issues of *direct* policy concern to WISPs, such as the FCC and their policies. And it's relevant to talk about how to cope with broader business issues, like getting health insurance. But to have general opinion discussions about a politically-charged complex issue like health insurance is not just to risk a rat hole, but to dive head first down one. Farther than even a lineman's pole could reach. - Original Message - From: MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 4:26 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance I have limited sympathy with your comments for a simple reason...Health Care IS NOW a political topic.So is broadband. So is internet network operations. So is bandwidth control, so is hiring someone, so is firing someone, so are the money management choices you make, so is retirement, so are benefits, so are, well, dang near every aspect of our business lives. I'd say none of us, at least the smaller guys, asked for any of this to be brought upon us.20 years ago, hardly a single thing mentioned above was or had ANY political concerns, and now, they're all political, and rarely are the political concerns going to bring about wise or prudent outcomes. This has been pushed upon us, by interests not in our favor, and those interests are not going away, nor are they moderating in the slightest. In fact, they are intent upon making MUCH more of our businesses and lives political. Yes, there are simple dollar value equations to some aspects of employer based health care, but some of it's purely political now.Any discussion of bandwidth management and application prioritization necessitates a weighing and ultimately making judgments about political things. Even arguments over what the politics actually means and how far it intends to reach and how much it legally CAN reach. Which ultimately brings us to the point where we discuss the topic of health care the same way we discuss customers who use the CD tray as a coffee cup holder, or expect us to do miracles, on a budget of dander and fluff - and that discussion is by necessity as much political as moral, logical, ethical. So you want us to NOT express our opinions on the nature of the political intrusions into our business.Might as well say that we can't express opinion about cranky customers, or which operating system is best on SBC's or how to manage a network. By necessity, these things are all relevant, as are our opinions of them. But so, too, the political aspects of our business, must be at least some what legitimate to discuss, lest we as a group by default follow a political course with no discussion or even consideration to where that leads us. It would be reasonable and proper to ask to keep such discussions relevant and topically accurate, and to try to keep this from degenerating into a political flame war. More importantly, it is necessary that respect be given to those who don't agree with your opinion, and that the there is only one default and acceptable opinion - that which is politically correct and I see that happen in a lot of places these days. And usually, that opinion and default position is utterly indefensible, but is never challenged, due to the powers that be preventing dissent. I would prefer that our discussions were not about politics. But they have to be, since politics has invited itself into darn near every aspect of our business.I'd say there's a powerful lesson there... but that would be ideological, huh. Sigh. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Forbes Mercy forbes.me...@wabroadband.com Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:45 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; memb...@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance Rick, Can we nip this in the butt right now? The discussion was to see if it was feasible for WISPA to look at a group rate for health care, it is now evolving into a political discussion. Political discussions usually degrade into undesirable threads which make people mad and ultimately cause one
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
:45 AM To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org;memb...@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance Rick, Can we nip this in the butt right now? The discussion was to see if it was feasible for WISPA to look at a group rate for health care, it is now evolving into a political discussion. Political discussions usually degrade into undesirable threads which make people mad and ultimately cause one or more to ask to be unsubscribed from the Members list. We consider that a sad loss because they won't get the benefit of the many discussions we have that have to do with being a WISP just because someone wanted to spread their own political views. We are not an advocacy for political causes other than for more spectrum and better rules for WISP's. You obviously wanted to spread your views all across WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
Truth. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:34 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 06:30, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: In addition to that those that don't have health insurance and go to the hospital, cause increases in insurance and hospital fees for all of us. Part of the reason insurance is so expensive is that the hospitals are only collecting .04 on the $1. Essentially, for every 1 person that pays 24 people do not. That's why a Tylenol costs $10, because they have to make it up on the people that can afford to pay. Source? David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
The reality is that single payer, as in socialized medicine EGADS! THE HORROR Actually saves the tax payers money.Truth and real. But as long as the health insurance companies pay big bucks for the FOX propaganda machine, some are left with lies. Think for yourselves. Sorry, the Canadian economy has pretty much recovered and they have that horrible and disgusting socialized health system. And here we are, stuck with only our socialized highway system, police force, libraries, parks, fire protection, Medicare, etc.I'm proud to line the pockets of the health insurance CEOs. I am indeed, an AMERICAN! Number 37 and PROUD!!! Hey, I actually own a passport and have used it often. Anyone else in that club? From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Fred Goldstein Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance At 8/3/2010 01:44 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote: yeah, cash pay works, until you get a stroke, heart attack, cancer, etc Even when you have good insurance, it can mean still having to come up with a few hundred thousand out of pocket. Often cash pay translates to... if you have a serious illness, you cant afford to chose to live. I dont mean to be bleak, but that is the reality of it. Sure, I understand that some for financial reasons must choose to fore go insurance. But I'd surely prefer to find more affordable insurance, than fore go insurance. Affording Healthcare is surely a big issue today. I actually find it somewhat ironic that some countries have made broadband a human right. I'd argue that healthcare (aka affordable insurance) far more deserves to be made a human right. Pretty much every industrialized country except the United States made health care a basic right a long time ago. ONLY the United States views it as a business, for which profit comes first and results (or the illusion thereof) are merely a means to that end. BTW I have a good broker here in Massachusetts who gets me, as a sole proprietor, a small-business group rate that's well below the connector rate (the model for the exchanges, but really an assigned-risk pool). And it's tax deductible as a business expense. There could be similar plans in other states. But rates here are ridiculously high; thanks to state intervention and their refusal to allow this year's 18-30% rate increases, I'm only paying around $18k/year, though today's paper announced that there is likely to be a more modest negotiated increase this month. But hey, the hospital, insurance, and drug company executives are getting their bonuses and buying yachts, and isn't that what counts the most? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Cameron Crum mailto:cc...@wispmon.com To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance Negotiate directly with your doctor or the hospital. I've been cash pay for years. About a year and a half ago, my then 2 year old got outside un-noticed and fell into our pool. He was at the bottom when we found him and my wife, being a trained lifegaurd, was able to perform cpr and get his pulse and breath back. That combined with the cold temperature of the water (early december), and the grace of God left him with no brain damage or permanent problems. Our trip to the ermergency room plus overnight stay in the hospital was more than $12,000. I negotiated with the hospital, the doctors, and the ambulance company (all different bills) to get my bill down to less than $5000. It took about 1 hour of my time. Had I had insurance, I would have had to pay the full $5000 or $1 deductable. So in this case it worked out for me. My family is extrememly healthy. Our kids go to the doctor maybe once a year and I can't remember the last time I saw a doctor. My wife just had arthoscopic surgurery on knee in the spring and agian, paying cash, I walked away with about a 50% dicount. As we get older, I'll probably consider getting insurance as age typically means more trips to the doc. and on average it will become cheaper to pay the insurance bills than to fund it in cash. I don't know what age that will be, but I'll keep you guys posted... Cameron On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 10:02 AM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: How do you negotiate that? I've tried and they same we pay their standard rate. After moving back to health insurance, we always see a discount, especially on in network doctors. On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 12:34 AM, Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com wrote: We are cash pay. Regular DR visits are half of what the quoted rate is. Hospital is pretty much the same way. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
I'll never pay another dime to any insurance company. Believe that one. The health care BS was warped and twisted and now is a joke. I voted for O boy but he was a lie too. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 12:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance With all dues respect, we ALL NOW have the accessibility to health care! In addition, we're supposed to be a FREE country, at least the freest (pardon the slang). Meaning that we are free to do as we please unless it affects others. Forcing people to buy health insurance or pay for others is not in line with what our country stands for. As far as other countries go, I lived in Australia for over a year. My wife has some health issues and we got to see first hand how government run health care works - NOT GOOD to say the least. They could care less. I almost sent her back to the states but fortunately the problems were not as severe as originally thought. We kissed the ground when we got back to America! Never had I been so glad to pay our monthly health insurance premiums! As far as the executives getting huge bonuses, etc. They just need more competition. Unfortunately, government regulations prevent it. I agree that our current system is broke but like many issues, they answer is NOT government. In Kentucky, I can only chose from two providers. How about drop the regulations that prevent others from entering our market and let the price war begin? Everyone should understand what our constitution provides as unalienable rights and what is does NOT! http://www.unalienable.com IMHO, and after reading our Forefathers works, broadband is not a right, and certainly not a unalienable right and neither is health care! Of course, we could give up those rights and become serfs with no choice but poor health care and watch the elite as they pay themselves huge bonuses, yachts, and other luxuries. -Rick Gunderson On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Fred Goldstein fgoldst...@ionary.com wrote: At 8/3/2010 01:44 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote: yeah, cash pay works, until you get a stroke, heart attack, cancer, etc Even when you have good insurance, it can mean still having to come up with a few hundred thousand out of pocket. Often cash pay translates to... if you have a serious illness, you cant afford to chose to live. I dont mean to be bleak, but that is the reality of it. Sure, I understand that some for financial reasons must choose to fore go insurance. But I'd surely prefer to find more affordable insurance, than fore go insurance. Affording Healthcare is surely a big issue today. I actually find it somewhat ironic that some countries have made broadband a human right. I'd argue that healthcare (aka affordable insurance) far more deserves to be made a human right. Pretty much every industrialized country except the United States made health care a basic right a long time ago. ONLY the United States views it as a business, for which profit comes first and results (or the illusion thereof) are merely a means to that end. BTW I have a good broker here in Massachusetts who gets me, as a sole proprietor, a small-business group rate that's well below the connector rate (the model for the exchanges, but really an assigned-risk pool). And it's tax deductible as a business expense. There could be similar plans in other states. But rates here are ridiculously high; thanks to state intervention and their refusal to allow this year's 18-30% rate increases, I'm only paying around $18k/year, though today's paper announced that there is likely to be a more modest negotiated increase this month. But hey, the hospital, insurance, and drug company executives are getting their bonuses and buying yachts, and isn't that what counts the most? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Cameron Crum To: WISPA General List Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance Negotiate directly with your doctor or the hospital. I've been cash pay for years. About a year and a half ago, my then 2 year old got outside un-noticed and fell into our pool. He was at the bottom when we found him and my wife, being a trained lifegaurd, was able to perform cpr and get his pulse and breath back. That combined with the cold temperature of the water (early december), and the grace of God left him with no brain damage or permanent problems. Our trip to the ermergency room plus overnight stay in the hospital was more than $12,000. I negotiated with the hospital, the doctors, and the ambulance company (all different bills) to get my bill down to less than $5000. It took about 1 hour of my time. Had I had insurance, I would have had to pay the full $5000 or $1
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
++ -- From: "Forbes Mercy" forbes.me...@wabroadband.com Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:45 AM To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org; memb...@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance Rick, Can we nip this in the butt right now? The discussion was to see if it was feasible for WISPA to look at a group rate for health care, it is now evolving into a political discussion. Political discussions usually degrade into undesirable threads which make people mad and ultimately cause one or more to ask to be unsubscribed from the Members list. We consider that a sad loss because they won't get the benefit of the many discussions we have that have to do with being a WISP just because someone wanted to spread their own political views. We are not an advocacy for political causes other than for more spectrum and better rules for WISP's. You obviously wanted to spread your views all across WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Network Design - Technical Training - Technical Writing Serving the Broadband Wireless, Networking and Telecom Communities since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
yeah, cash pay works, until you get a stroke, heart attack, cancer, etc Even when you have good insurance, it can mean still having to come up with a few hundred thousand out of pocket. Often cash pay translates to... if you have a serious illness, you cant afford to chose to live. I dont mean to be bleak, but that is the reality of it. Sure, I understand that some for financial reasons must choose to fore go insurance. But I'd surely prefer to find more affordable insurance, than fore go insurance. Affording Healthcare is surely a big issue today. I actually find it somewhat ironic that some countries have made broadband a human right. I'd argue that healthcare (aka affordable insurance) far more deserves to be made a human right. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Cameron Crum To: WISPA General List Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance Negotiate directly with your doctor or the hospital. I've been cash pay for years. About a year and a half ago, my then 2 year old got outside un-noticed and fell into our pool. He was at the bottom when we found him and my wife, being a trained lifegaurd, was able to perform cpr and get his pulse and breath back. That combined with the cold temperature of the water (early december), and the grace of God left him with no brain damage or permanent problems. Our trip to the ermergency room plus overnight stay in the hospital was more than $12,000. I negotiated with the hospital, the doctors, and the ambulance company (all different bills) to get my bill down to less than $5000. It took about 1 hour of my time. Had I had insurance, I would have had to pay the full $5000 or $1 deductable. So in this case it worked out for me. My family is extrememly healthy. Our kids go to the doctor maybe once a year and I can't remember the last time I saw a doctor. My wife just had arthoscopic surgurery on knee in the spring and agian, paying cash, I walked away with about a 50% dicount. As we get older, I'll probably consider getting insurance as age typically means more trips to the doc. and on average it will become cheaper to pay the insurance bills than to fund it in cash. I don't know what age that will be, but I'll keep you guys posted... Cameron On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 10:02 AM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: How do you negotiate that? I've tried and they same we pay their standard rate. After moving back to health insurance, we always see a discount, especially on in network doctors. On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 12:34 AM, Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com wrote: We are cash pay. Regular DR visits are half of what the quoted rate is. Hospital is pretty much the same way. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance That is very interesting... it is the first time I am hearing as such... Our experience has been on the contrary... Without the insurance company's pre-netogitated discounts, it is impossible to get a reasonable bill.. more like.. They stick to you as a cash paying customer.. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 7/30/2010 9:20 PM, Roger Howard wrote: I had a friend who had a triple heart bypass. They gave him the bill for loadsa money, assuming he would pay it over a long period of time. When he said he was paying cash outright, it cost a tiny fraction of the amount the bill was for. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
Same here. On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 11:19 PM, Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net wrote: That is very interesting... it is the first time I am hearing as such... Our experience has been on the contrary... Without the insurance company's pre-netogitated discounts, it is impossible to get a reasonable bill.. more like.. They stick to you as a cash paying customer.. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 7/30/2010 9:20 PM, Roger Howard wrote: I had a friend who had a triple heart bypass. They gave him the bill for loadsa money, assuming he would pay it over a long period of time. When he said he was paying cash outright, it cost a tiny fraction of the amount the bill was for. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
How do you negotiate that? I've tried and they same we pay their standard rate. After moving back to health insurance, we always see a discount, especially on in network doctors. On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 12:34 AM, Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com wrote: We are cash pay. Regular DR visits are half of what the quoted rate is. Hospital is pretty much the same way. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance That is very interesting... it is the first time I am hearing as such... Our experience has been on the contrary... Without the insurance company's pre-netogitated discounts, it is impossible to get a reasonable bill.. more like.. They stick to you as a cash paying customer.. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 7/30/2010 9:20 PM, Roger Howard wrote: I had a friend who had a triple heart bypass. They gave him the bill for loadsa money, assuming he would pay it over a long period of time. When he said he was paying cash outright, it cost a tiny fraction of the amount the bill was for. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
Negotiate directly with your doctor or the hospital. I've been cash pay for years. About a year and a half ago, my then 2 year old got outside un-noticed and fell into our pool. He was at the bottom when we found him and my wife, being a trained lifegaurd, was able to perform cpr and get his pulse and breath back. That combined with the cold temperature of the water (early december), and the grace of God left him with no brain damage or permanent problems. Our trip to the ermergency room plus overnight stay in the hospital was more than $12,000. I negotiated with the hospital, the doctors, and the ambulance company (all different bills) to get my bill down to less than $5000. It took about 1 hour of my time. Had I had insurance, I would have had to pay the full $5000 or $1 deductable. So in this case it worked out for me. My family is extrememly healthy. Our kids go to the doctor maybe once a year and I can't remember the last time I saw a doctor. My wife just had arthoscopic surgurery on knee in the spring and agian, paying cash, I walked away with about a 50% dicount. As we get older, I'll probably consider getting insurance as age typically means more trips to the doc. and on average it will become cheaper to pay the insurance bills than to fund it in cash. I don't know what age that will be, but I'll keep you guys posted... Cameron On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 10:02 AM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: How do you negotiate that? I've tried and they same we pay their standard rate. After moving back to health insurance, we always see a discount, especially on in network doctors. On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 12:34 AM, Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com wrote: We are cash pay. Regular DR visits are half of what the quoted rate is. Hospital is pretty much the same way. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance That is very interesting... it is the first time I am hearing as such... Our experience has been on the contrary... Without the insurance company's pre-netogitated discounts, it is impossible to get a reasonable bill.. more like.. They stick to you as a cash paying customer.. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 7/30/2010 9:20 PM, Roger Howard wrote: I had a friend who had a triple heart bypass. They gave him the bill for loadsa money, assuming he would pay it over a long period of time. When he said he was paying cash outright, it cost a tiny fraction of the amount the bill was for. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
Well, I'm glad it worked out for you. Hopefully, your Son is fine as well. Back in 2005 I had a pulmonary embolism attack. Went straight to the hospital and ended up there for 3 days. I had no insurance and was between jobs. Final bill was $12k. The hospital would not take one dime off the bill claiming I owned a business (consulting). That nearly cleaned out my savings. Sheesh! Fast forward to more recently: I now have insurance. I've been back to the hospital after cutting off the tip of my finger with a planar. The hospital was forced to give the insurance and discounted in network rate which was passed on to me on the final bill. With that said, my 22 year old Son had a shotgun pellet ricochet into his shin (dont ask). I took him to a walk-in Urgent Care, told them I was paying cash and they did give me a cash discount. So, I guess the results will vary depending on the provider but I'm not seeing hospitals giving discounts and that the big one if you need it. On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Cameron Crum cc...@wispmon.com wrote: Negotiate directly with your doctor or the hospital. I've been cash pay for years. About a year and a half ago, my then 2 year old got outside un-noticed and fell into our pool. He was at the bottom when we found him and my wife, being a trained lifegaurd, was able to perform cpr and get his pulse and breath back. That combined with the cold temperature of the water (early december), and the grace of God left him with no brain damage or permanent problems. Our trip to the ermergency room plus overnight stay in the hospital was more than $12,000. I negotiated with the hospital, the doctors, and the ambulance company (all different bills) to get my bill down to less than $5000. It took about 1 hour of my time. Had I had insurance, I would have had to pay the full $5000 or $1 deductable. So in this case it worked out for me. My family is extrememly healthy. Our kids go to the doctor maybe once a year and I can't remember the last time I saw a doctor. My wife just had arthoscopic surgurery on knee in the spring and agian, paying cash, I walked away with about a 50% dicount. As we get older, I'll probably consider getting insurance as age typically means more trips to the doc. and on average it will become cheaper to pay the insurance bills than to fund it in cash. I don't know what age that will be, but I'll keep you guys posted... Cameron On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 10:02 AM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: How do you negotiate that? I've tried and they same we pay their standard rate. After moving back to health insurance, we always see a discount, especially on in network doctors. On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 12:34 AM, Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com wrote: We are cash pay. Regular DR visits are half of what the quoted rate is. Hospital is pretty much the same way. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance That is very interesting... it is the first time I am hearing as such... Our experience has been on the contrary... Without the insurance company's pre-netogitated discounts, it is impossible to get a reasonable bill.. more like.. They stick to you as a cash paying customer.. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 7/30/2010 9:20 PM, Roger Howard wrote: I had a friend who had a triple heart bypass. They gave him the bill for loadsa money, assuming he would pay it over a long period of time. When he said he was paying cash outright, it cost a tiny fraction of the amount the bill was for. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
It seemed to me like when I was paying for health insurance for my family it was a huge waste of money. I'm from England. In England, if you buy insurance for something it covers you. Over here in the US it always seems to cover you UP TO a certain dollar amount, IF the wind is blowing in the right direction. So it never takes all the risk away. Same with car insurance, house insurance, health insurance, etc. Another thing is, if you go to hospital, and you pay cash for your treatment, it costs a fraction of what they would have charged to the insurance company. And another problem was, since I was only paying about a hundred dollars a month for coverage, the insurance covered only 80% of my treatment, AFTER the first $5,000 and only did that if it was in network. So with insurance, I'd end up paying maybe 20% of $100,000 instead of 100% of $40,000 or something plus the $5000 deductable. I don't know the percentages or the numbers, but it seemed like it was a whole lot of expense for only a very small amount of coverage. I had a friend who had a triple heart bypass. They gave him the bill for loadsa money, assuming he would pay it over a long period of time. When he said he was paying cash outright, it cost a tiny fraction of the amount the bill was for. So, all things considered, it seemed to me like I was paying a lot of money for almost no coverage. So what we did was, instead of paying a hundred bucks a month to our health insurance, we paid a hundred bucks a month into our savings account, to cover emergency costs. The great thing about this is, the savings cover ANY emergency, not just a broken bone, but if a tornado tears the house down, or car crash or getting sued or whatever. Seems like health insurance was approximately equal to throwing our money down the drain. Thanks, Roger WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
That is very interesting... it is the first time I am hearing as such... Our experience has been on the contrary... Without the insurance company's pre-netogitated discounts, it is impossible to get a reasonable bill.. more like.. They stick to you as a cash paying customer.. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 7/30/2010 9:20 PM, Roger Howard wrote: I had a friend who had a triple heart bypass. They gave him the bill for loadsa money, assuming he would pay it over a long period of time. When he said he was paying cash outright, it cost a tiny fraction of the amount the bill was for. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
We are cash pay. Regular DR visits are half of what the quoted rate is. Hospital is pretty much the same way. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Faisal Imtiaz fai...@snappydsl.net To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance That is very interesting... it is the first time I am hearing as such... Our experience has been on the contrary... Without the insurance company's pre-netogitated discounts, it is impossible to get a reasonable bill.. more like.. They stick to you as a cash paying customer.. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 7/30/2010 9:20 PM, Roger Howard wrote: I had a friend who had a triple heart bypass. They gave him the bill for loadsa money, assuming he would pay it over a long period of time. When he said he was paying cash outright, it cost a tiny fraction of the amount the bill was for. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
With Doctor's private practice yes, they do that.. from Insurance Companies they only get about 20% to 30% of the standard rate.. It is the hospitals which have been the issue... they claim that their medicare payments are based on a discount schedule of the Standard Rate Interesting to know.. BTW, what city are you in ? ... It could what we see is a Metro Area issue... Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 7/31/2010 12:34 AM, Blake Bowers wrote: We are cash pay. Regular DR visits are half of what the quoted rate is. Hospital is pretty much the same way. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Faisal Imtiazfai...@snappydsl.net To:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance That is very interesting... it is the first time I am hearing as such... Our experience has been on the contrary... Without the insurance company's pre-netogitated discounts, it is impossible to get a reasonable bill.. more like.. They stick to you as a cash paying customer.. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 7/30/2010 9:20 PM, Roger Howard wrote: I had a friend who had a triple heart bypass. They gave him the bill for loadsa money, assuming he would pay it over a long period of time. When he said he was paying cash outright, it cost a tiny fraction of the amount the bill was for. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
The IDEA of an HSA (Health Savings Account) is not for the employer to save money. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_savings_account It's for the employee to have a employer-funded savings account for medical expenses. Putting the normal, small expenses on the employee. So if the employee is healthy and doesn't see a doctor much, that employee can realize a savings account that grows. There is coverage in the case of a large problem. So, while premiums ARE technically lower for the employer, the employer is then SUPPOSED to put what essentially is the difference between a traditional premium and an HSA premium in the employees HSA account. This is a small step toward people paying for their own healthcare and having a savings later on in life when health care costs are higher. The advisor I talked to stated that the payoff seems to be about 18 months. In 18 months, if you don't have much in expenses, you begin to build your savings account to a point where it outperforms what a normal person would pay for out-of-pocket expenses. If you run it dry constantly, then it will not perform well for you, and therefore YOU should stay on a traditional premium plan. This is an employee-by-employee decision to make depending on the life circumstances of THAT employee and his/her family needs. - Original Message - From: Bret Clark To: WISPA General List Cc: memb...@wispa.org ; motor...@afmug.com Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance We went through an independent broker who essentially had created a small business group plan of area businesses that help keep cost down verses us going to the insurer ourselves. Another thing to consider is Health Savings Accounts (HSA) which are a lot less then regular health insurance but at least affords some piece of mind for employees in the event they are faced with a serious medical or health issue. Bret On Wed, 2010-07-28 at 19:07 -0400, David Weddell wrote: I know that we are constantly battling pricing in health insurance. We would be interested in how we could participate in a “WISPA” group plan and with 60+ employees and families that we cover, you can imagine our monthly premium. I would assume that in an association plan, the more that participate, the better rates could be negotiated. We would be interested in helping with negotiations if needed. I believe this is a great idea and could benefit WISPA as a whole and encourage membership as well. Regards, David Weddell VP Business Development Corporate Partnerships Omnicity, Inc. www.omnicity.net OTCMarkets: OMCY 866 586 1518 Corporate Office 765 499 7310 Cell From: members-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:members-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rick Harnish Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 5:40 PM To: 'WISPA General List'; memb...@wispa.org; motor...@afmug.com Subject: [WISPA Members] Health Insurance I am curious about all the small operators out there. What are you doing for Health Insurance? Do you have individual policies? Are you on your wife’s policy? Is there a need for a WISPA Group Health Insurance Plan? I will be investigating this topic over the next few weeks. I will most likely send out a survey in a week or two once I get together with an underwriter and see what the feasibility is. Between now and then, I would like to encourage discussion to see whether it is worth our effort. My goal is to offer a group plan that will assist those who do not have enough employees to justify an in-house group plan for their employees or themselves. Hopefully, we can reduce your cost and improve your coverage. Respectfully, Rick Harnish President WISPA 260-307-4000 cell 866-317-2851 WISPA Office Skype: rick.harnish. rharn...@wispa.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
That is called taxes...and we are about to see what it really costs. Just wait until next year. Cameron On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 9:43 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Health Insurance? Hey, George! (In Canada) What kind of budget to you have for health insurance? Me- *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Bret Clark *Sent:* Wednesday, July 28, 2010 7:56 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Cc:* memb...@wispa.org; motor...@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance We went through an independent broker who essentially had created a small business group plan of area businesses that help keep cost down verses us going to the insurer ourselves. Another thing to consider is Health Savings Accounts (HSA) which are a lot less then regular health insurance but at least affords some piece of mind for employees in the event they are faced with a serious medical or health issue. Bret On Wed, 2010-07-28 at 19:07 -0400, David Weddell wrote: I know that we are constantly battling pricing in health insurance. We would be interested in how we could participate in a “WISPA” group plan and with 60+ employees and families that we cover, you can imagine our monthly premium. I would assume that in an association plan, the more that participate, the better rates could be negotiated. We would be interested in helping with negotiations if needed. I believe this is a great idea and could benefit WISPA as a whole and encourage membership as well. Regards, David Weddell VP Business Development Corporate Partnerships Omnicity, Inc. www.omnicity.net OTCMarkets: OMCY 866 586 1518 Corporate Office 765 499 7310 Cell *From:* members-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:members-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Rick Harnish *Sent:* Wednesday, July 28, 2010 5:40 PM *To:* 'WISPA General List'; memb...@wispa.org; motor...@afmug.com *Subject:* [WISPA Members] Health Insurance I am curious about all the small operators out there. What are you doing for Health Insurance? Do you have individual policies? Are you on your wife’s policy? Is there a need for a WISPA Group Health Insurance Plan? I will be investigating this topic over the next few weeks. I will most likely send out a survey in a week or two once I get together with an underwriter and see what the feasibility is. Between now and then, I would like to encourage discussion to see whether it is worth our effort. My goal is to offer a group plan that will assist those who do not have enough employees to justify an in-house group plan for their employees or themselves. Hopefully, we can reduce your cost and improve your coverage. Respectfully, *Rick Harnish* President WISPA 260-307-4000 cell 866-317-2851 WISPA Office Skype: rick.harnish. rharn...@wispa.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
I know that we are constantly battling pricing in health insurance. We would be interested in how we could participate in a WISPA group plan and with 60+ employees and families that we cover, you can imagine our monthly premium. I would assume that in an association plan, the more that participate, the better rates could be negotiated. We would be interested in helping with negotiations if needed. I believe this is a great idea and could benefit WISPA as a whole and encourage membership as well. Regards, David Weddell VP Business Development Corporate Partnerships Omnicity, Inc. www.omnicity.net OTCMarkets: OMCY 866 586 1518 Corporate Office 765 499 7310 Cell From: members-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:members-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rick Harnish Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 5:40 PM To: 'WISPA General List'; memb...@wispa.org; motor...@afmug.com Subject: [WISPA Members] Health Insurance I am curious about all the small operators out there. What are you doing for Health Insurance? Do you have individual policies? Are you on your wife's policy? Is there a need for a WISPA Group Health Insurance Plan? I will be investigating this topic over the next few weeks. I will most likely send out a survey in a week or two once I get together with an underwriter and see what the feasibility is. Between now and then, I would like to encourage discussion to see whether it is worth our effort. My goal is to offer a group plan that will assist those who do not have enough employees to justify an in-house group plan for their employees or themselves. Hopefully, we can reduce your cost and improve your coverage. Respectfully, Rick Harnish President WISPA 260-307-4000 cell 866-317-2851 WISPA Office Skype: rick.harnish. rharn...@wispa.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
We went through an independent broker who essentially had created a small business group plan of area businesses that help keep cost down verses us going to the insurer ourselves. Another thing to consider is Health Savings Accounts (HSA) which are a lot less then regular health insurance but at least affords some piece of mind for employees in the event they are faced with a serious medical or health issue. Bret On Wed, 2010-07-28 at 19:07 -0400, David Weddell wrote: I know that we are constantly battling pricing in health insurance. We would be interested in how we could participate in a “WISPA” group plan and with 60+ employees and families that we cover, you can imagine our monthly premium. I would assume that in an association plan, the more that participate, the better rates could be negotiated. We would be interested in helping with negotiations if needed. I believe this is a great idea and could benefit WISPA as a whole and encourage membership as well. Regards, David Weddell VP Business Development Corporate Partnerships Omnicity, Inc. www.omnicity.net OTCMarkets: OMCY 866 586 1518 Corporate Office 765 499 7310 Cell From: members-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:members-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rick Harnish Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 5:40 PM To: 'WISPA General List'; memb...@wispa.org; motor...@afmug.com Subject: [WISPA Members] Health Insurance I am curious about all the small operators out there. What are you doing for Health Insurance? Do you have individual policies? Are you on your wife’s policy? Is there a need for a WISPA Group Health Insurance Plan? I will be investigating this topic over the next few weeks. I will most likely send out a survey in a week or two once I get together with an underwriter and see what the feasibility is. Between now and then, I would like to encourage discussion to see whether it is worth our effort. My goal is to offer a group plan that will assist those who do not have enough employees to justify an in-house group plan for their employees or themselves. Hopefully, we can reduce your cost and improve your coverage. Respectfully, Rick Harnish President WISPA 260-307-4000 cell 866-317-2851 WISPA Office Skype: rick.harnish. rharn...@wispa.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance
Health Insurance? Hey, George! (In Canada) What kind of budget to you have for health insurance? Me- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bret Clark Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 7:56 PM To: WISPA General List Cc: memb...@wispa.org; motor...@afmug.com Subject: Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Health Insurance We went through an independent broker who essentially had created a small business group plan of area businesses that help keep cost down verses us going to the insurer ourselves. Another thing to consider is Health Savings Accounts (HSA) which are a lot less then regular health insurance but at least affords some piece of mind for employees in the event they are faced with a serious medical or health issue. Bret On Wed, 2010-07-28 at 19:07 -0400, David Weddell wrote: I know that we are constantly battling pricing in health insurance. We would be interested in how we could participate in a “WISPA” group plan and with 60+ employees and families that we cover, you can imagine our monthly premium. I would assume that in an association plan, the more that participate, the better rates could be negotiated. We would be interested in helping with negotiations if needed. I believe this is a great idea and could benefit WISPA as a whole and encourage membership as well. Regards, David Weddell VP Business Development Corporate Partnerships Omnicity, Inc. www.omnicity.net OTCMarkets: OMCY 866 586 1518 Corporate Office 765 499 7310 Cell From: members-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:members-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Rick Harnish Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 5:40 PM To: 'WISPA General List'; memb...@wispa.org; motor...@afmug.com Subject: [WISPA Members] Health Insurance I am curious about all the small operators out there. What are you doing for Health Insurance? Do you have individual policies? Are you on your wife’s policy? Is there a need for a WISPA Group Health Insurance Plan? I will be investigating this topic over the next few weeks. I will most likely send out a survey in a week or two once I get together with an underwriter and see what the feasibility is. Between now and then, I would like to encourage discussion to see whether it is worth our effort. My goal is to offer a group plan that will assist those who do not have enough employees to justify an in-house group plan for their employees or themselves. Hopefully, we can reduce your cost and improve your coverage. Respectfully, Rick Harnish President WISPA 260-307-4000 cell 866-317-2851 WISPA Office Skype: rick.harnish. rharn...@wispa.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
