c: Commons Developers List
Sent: Tuesday, 30 October 2018 1:33 AM
Subject: Re: [site] update release process (Was: Re: [VOTE] Release Commons
Imaging 1.0-alpha1 based on RC1)
> On Oct 29, 2018, at 7:24 AM, Rob Tompkins wrote:
>
>
>
>> On Oct 28, 2018, at 8:04 P
__
>> From: Rob Tompkins
>> To: Commons Developers List
>> Cc: Bruno P. Kinoshita
>> Sent: Monday, 29 October 2018 2:49 AM
>> Subject: [site] update release process (Was: Re: [VOTE] Release Commons
>> Imaging 1.0-alpha1 based on RC1)
>>
&g
c: Bruno P. Kinoshita
> Sent: Monday, 29 October 2018 2:49 AM
> Subject: [site] update release process (Was: Re: [VOTE] Release Commons
> Imaging 1.0-alpha1 based on RC1)
>
>
>
> This is mildly on me for not updating the release docs recently. I’ll put
> that on my
: Bruno P. Kinoshita
Sent: Monday, 29 October 2018 2:49 AM
Subject: [site] update release process (Was: Re: [VOTE] Release Commons Imaging
1.0-alpha1 based on RC1)
This is mildly on me for not updating the release docs recently. I’ll put that
on my docket for the week.
PS. @Bruno solid work
This is mildly on me for not updating the release docs recently. I’ll put that
on my docket for the week.
PS. @Bruno solid work and many thanks for rolling the RC.
Cheers,
-Rob
> On Oct 28, 2018, at 9:35 AM, Gary Gregory wrote:
>
> Hello Bruno,
>
> Thank you for preparing the RC.
>
> MD5
Am 13.01.2018 um 15:36 schrieb Gilles:
> On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 08:48:19 -0500, Rob Tompkins wrote:
>> Given that right now we don’t have sufficient votes to release the
>> plugin, do folks want me to cancel this vote in leu of the lazy vote
>> process cleaning up the nits that folks have found?
I will find some time to review this weekend.
Gary
On Jan 13, 2018 6:48 AM, "Rob Tompkins" wrote:
> Given that right now we don’t have sufficient votes to release the plugin,
> do folks want me to cancel this vote in leu of the lazy vote process
> cleaning up the nits that
On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 08:48:19 -0500, Rob Tompkins wrote:
Given that right now we don’t have sufficient votes to release the
plugin, do folks want me to cancel this vote in leu of the lazy vote
process cleaning up the nits that folks have found? I’m curious since
folks don’t seem to have the
Given that right now we don’t have sufficient votes to release the plugin, do
folks want me to cancel this vote in leu of the lazy vote process cleaning up
the nits that folks have found? I’m curious since folks don’t seem to have the
appetite for this process.
> On Jan 11, 2018, at 10:51 PM,
tool.conf.html
>>>
>>> Le mercredi 27 décembre 2017, 23:32:49 CET Rob Tompkins a écrit :
>>>> Stephen,
>>>>
>>>> I can’t thank you enough for your reply. I’ll take your suggestions and
>>>> continue to sandbox around using the maven-release-plugin
around using the maven-release-plugin as a guideline.
>>>
>>> All the best and happy holidays,
>>> -Rob
>>>
>>>> On Dec 26, 2017, at 5:27 AM, Stephen Connolly
>>>> <stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com> wrote:>
>>>>
Thank you for spearheading making our release process better.
One tricky thing to watch out for are components like Lang and DBCP which
have folder names on dist that are not the artifact ID. IOW lang vs lang3,
dbcp vs dbcp2.
Gary
On Dec 30, 2017 08:29, "Rob Tompkins" <chtom...@gma
Hello all,
I just wanted to let everyone know where I’ve been running lately. I’m writing
a new commons component specifically “commons-release-plugin” for the sake of
making a maven plugin that adheres to our release process. I’m sandboxing it in
my git work area:
https://github.com/chtompki
as a guideline.
>>
>> All the best and happy holidays,
>> -Rob
>>
>>> On Dec 26, 2017, at 5:27 AM, Stephen Connolly
>>> <stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com> wrote:>
>>> On Tue 26 Dec 2017 at 03:10, Rob Tompkins <chtom...@apache.org
> <ma
Hello all,
> >>
> >> Pardon, maybe this should have gone to your @user list, but why not ping
> >> the dev crew. I’ve been playing around the ideas surrounding our fairly
> >> manual release process for the components in Commons, and I was hoping
> >>
om> wrote:
>
> On Tue 26 Dec 2017 at 03:10, Rob Tompkins <chtom...@apache.org
> <mailto:chtom...@apache.org>> wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Pardon, maybe this should have gone to your @user list, but why not ping
>> the dev crew. I’ve been playing aroun
On 26 December 2017 at 18:48, Matt Sicker wrote:
> On 26 December 2017 at 04:27, Stephen Connolly <
> stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Personally... I see no reason to remove them from going to Nexus staging
>> (in fact I have a background plan to add secondary
On 26 December 2017 at 04:27, Stephen Connolly <
stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Personally... I see no reason to remove them from going to Nexus staging
> (in fact I have a background plan to add secondary signing support to
> staging... i’m Waiting to see the Nexus 3 staging APIs
On Tue 26 Dec 2017 at 03:10, Rob Tompkins <chtom...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Pardon, maybe this should have gone to your @user list, but why not ping
> the dev crew. I’ve been playing around the ideas surrounding our fairly
> manual release process for the compone
Hello all,
Pardon, maybe this should have gone to your @user list, but why not ping the
dev crew. I’ve been playing around the ideas surrounding our fairly manual
release process for the components in Commons, and I was hoping for some
insights.
Scripting the version changes isn’t really
Go for it!
Gary
On Fri, Sep 30, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Matt Benson wrote:
> Just a note to let the community I plan to start rolling release candidates
> in the near future.
>
> Matt
>
--
E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org
Java Persistence with Hibernate,
Just a note to let the community I plan to start rolling release candidates
in the near future.
Matt
On 14 October 2013 02:21, Ralph Goers ralph.go...@dslextreme.com wrote:
On Oct 13, 2013, at 4:31 PM, sebb wrote:
Recently, I found that the Maven project RMs don't bother removing these.
So the files are released to Maven Central with the rest.
I assume that the Maven Central administrators
We should probably investigate whether Nexus's REST APIs would be of any
use here; seemingly they would make it much more difficult to inadvertently
delete the wrong file(s).
Matt
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 11:33 AM, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote:
On 14 October 2013 02:21, Ralph Goers
On 15 October 2013 17:54, Matt Benson gudnabr...@gmail.com wrote:
We should probably investigate whether Nexus's REST APIs would be of any
use here; seemingly they would make it much more difficult to inadvertently
delete the wrong file(s).
I did try to find out about them.
Unfortunately they
Asked on #asfinfra and got the link from bdemers: [1]. He says it will
change to [2] whenever Nexus is upgraded.
Matt
[1]
https://repository.apache.org/nexus-core-documentation-plugin/core/docs/index.html
[2]
https://repository.apache.org/nexus-restlet1x-plugin/default/docs/index.html
On Tue,
On 15 October 2013 19:33, Matt Benson gudnabr...@gmail.com wrote:
Asked on #asfinfra and got the link from bdemers: [1]. He says it will
change to [2] whenever Nexus is upgraded.
Thanks!
Just to clarify: is it just the link that will change, or will the API
change as well?
Matt
[1]
From the time I spent recently perusing their API docs, I would guess from
the fact that they qualify the URL scheme with a 1 version, that they
will preserve compatibility indefinitely. If they alter their API I
presume it will use a different version ID on the URL.
Matt
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013
procedures? Perhaps we can set it up so that it
doesn't sync with central and just gets staged locally. This way, we
can test out changes to the release process and see how they work.
Also, a new release manager can play around with that project and get
it right before diving into the real work
On 10/11/13 3:53 AM, Gilles wrote:
On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 18:35:07 -0500, Matt Benson wrote:
We're all still talking about the release process, but in all
honesty I've
not done it for several years at Commons. I think it would be
immensely
helpful for those of us who have been at least part
the component sites should be maintained.
Matt
On Oct 13, 2013 12:20 PM, Phil Steitz phil.ste...@gmail.com wrote:
On 10/11/13 3:53 AM, Gilles wrote:
On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 18:35:07 -0500, Matt Benson wrote:
We're all still talking about the release process, but in all
honesty I've
not done
, 2013, Phil Steitz wrote:
On 10/11/13 3:53 AM, Gilles wrote:
On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 18:35:07 -0500, Matt Benson wrote:
We're all still talking about the release process, but in all
honesty I've
not done it for several years at Commons. I think it would be
immensely
helpful for those of us
Le 12/10/2013 10:07, Olivier Lamy a écrit :
Why removing those files? It's is strictly forbidden by any Apache
rules to have those?
No, but it just clutters Maven Central. The .asc file contains a signed
hash of the file, there is no need to have two additional hashes of a hash.
why
On 11 October 2013 05:16, Stefan Bodewig bode...@apache.org wrote:
On 2013-10-11, Matt Benson wrote:
We're all still talking about the release process, but in all honesty I've
not done it for several years at Commons. I think it would be immensely
helpful for those of us who have been
On Oct 13, 2013, at 4:31 PM, sebb wrote:
Recently, I found that the Maven project RMs don't bother removing these.
So the files are released to Maven Central with the rest.
I assume that the Maven Central administrators don't care about the
extra space needed.
Now ASF source releases must
+1 from me for anything that makes the release process sane.
I'd be committing again if preparing a release was simple enough. As it is,
I don't have the blocks of time needed to push out a release and committing
to projects with no apparent release manager becomes an exercise in
futility.
Hen
Why don't we create a real project that we can cut real releases on to
test our release procedures? Perhaps we can set it up so that it
doesn't sync with central and just gets staged locally. This way, we
can test out changes to the release process and see how they work.
Also, a new release
with central and just gets staged locally. This way, we
can test out changes to the release process and see how they work.
Also, a new release manager can play around with that project and get
it right before diving into the real work
...@carmanconsulting.com wrote:
Why don't we create a real project that we can cut real releases on to
test our release procedures? Perhaps we can set it up so that it
doesn't sync with central and just gets staged locally. This way, we
can test out changes to the release process and see how they work
Le 10/10/2013 17:24, James Carman a écrit :
Why don't we create a real project that we can cut real releases on to
test our release procedures? Perhaps we can set it up so that it
doesn't sync with central and just gets staged locally. This way, we
can test out changes to the release process
This isn't to address Git. This is just in-general a little sandbox
that folks can use to either test out change to the release process
(or documentation) or just have a go at being a release manager before
actually volunteering. Anyone would be free to cut a release at any
time.
On Thu, Oct
Le 10/10/2013 17:36, James Carman a écrit :
This isn't to address Git. This is just in-general a little sandbox
that folks can use to either test out change to the release process
(or documentation) or just have a go at being a release manager before
actually volunteering. Anyone would
to the release process
(or documentation) or just have a go at being a release manager before
actually volunteering. Anyone would be free to cut a release at any
time.
Ah sure, excellent idea. You may want two projects then, a simple one
and another with modules.
Emmanuel Bourg
on to
test our release procedures? Perhaps we can set it up so that it
doesn't sync with central and just gets staged locally. This way, we
can test out changes to the release process and see how they work.
Also, a new release manager can play around with that project and get
it right
We're all still talking about the release process, but in all honesty I've
not done it for several years at Commons. I think it would be immensely
helpful for those of us who have been at least part way through the process
fairly recently (Emmanuel, Gary, others?) to present your recollections
On 2013-10-11, Matt Benson wrote:
We're all still talking about the release process, but in all honesty I've
not done it for several years at Commons. I think it would be immensely
helpful for those of us who have been at least part way through the process
fairly recently (Emmanuel, Gary
On 2013-03-14, Gary Gregory wrote:
In the past, I've have felt (disgusted is too strong a word) discouraged
from releasing often by the our release process, and it's a 'process' all
right. First, I had started to follow:
https://commons.apache.org/releases/index.html
but finding
releasing often by the our release process, and it's a 'process' all
right. First, I had started to follow:
https://commons.apache.org/releases/index.html
but finding it inadequate, I followed and updated:
https://wiki.apache.org/commons/UsingNexus
such that I needed little
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For additional commands, e
a clirr report with
the proper information to allow detection of unintended API breakage and may
even allow creating IDE plugins to warn about usage.
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For additional
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Hi Gary!
On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 4:42 PM, Gary Gregory garydgreg...@gmail.com wrote:
Personally, I do not like annotations to describe the stability of an API.
If it's public I can use it. The next release is binary and/or source
compatible, just document how to migrate. No one is forcing me
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a clirr report
with
the proper information to allow detection of unintended API breakage and
may
even allow creating IDE plugins to warn about usage.
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and for release voting, it gets easier to control that we've
not unintentionally screwed it up.
Oh, and I do agree on the immutability / thread safety doc. :-)
Cheers,
Henrib
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Hi Henri,
henrib wrote:
It seems to me we have a hard time allowing both stability and usability.
Stability of APIs does not contradict usability of the library, at least
should not.
Some of us are looking for very long term/stable/high-quality solutions
because they need to aggregate
compatibility
requirements. That could by itself provide a workaround for a lot
of these issues.
Phil
Best regards,
Henri
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On 2011-12-04, henrib wrote:
When trying to release JEXL 2.1, the API was disrupted and the clirr report
was outputing lots of clutter.
As the dev, it became very hard to understand whether the change was
actually breaking the intended stable API or just some internal methods or
class.
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dream
of a -your favorite IDE here- plugin that warns you when using one of those.
If there is an easy / easier practical solution that could serve the same
purpose, I'm all for it!
--
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.
Those annotations and conventions should allow feeding a clirr report with
the proper information to allow detection of unintended API breakage and may
even allow creating IDE plugins to warn about usage.
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On 4 December 2011 10:41, henrib hen...@apache.org wrote:
Keeping track as it evolves based on feedback;
Goal is to allow easy definition, usage and check of stable APIs.
+1, agree that we need to be clearer about what the intended external API is.
An annotation and a package naming
kind?
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a workaround for a lot
of these issues.
Phil
Best regards,
Henri
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:-)
Cheers,
Bruno P. Kinoshita
http://kinoshita.eti.br
http://tupilabs.com
De: Phil Steitz phil.ste...@gmail.com
Para: Commons Developers List dev@commons.apache.org
Enviadas: Sábado, 3 de Dezembro de 2011 23:22
Assunto: Re: [RELEASE PROCESS] Stability versus
On 2011-12-02, henrib wrote:
It seems to me we have a hard time allowing both stability and usability.
Stability of APIs does not contradict usability of the library, at least
should not.
I'm glad you say that right at the beginning as the versus in the
subject line seems to imply something
. Seems like a win-win.
Best regards,
Henrib
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minor with no warning
We might also use a clear 'internal' sub-package name as a frontier
delimiter on the same rule.
Thoughts ?
Best regards,
Henri
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Sent
On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Simone Tripodi
simonetrip...@apache.org wrote:
I just realized that maybe artifacts produced by the assembly plugin
should not be attached[1], WDYT?
In contrary, they should, to make use of all the Maven plugins for signing etc.
--
I Am What I Am And That's
On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 3:55 PM, Simone Tripodi simonetrip...@apache.org wrote:
Yes it is :( Problem is that for discovery-0.5, zip and tar.gz have
been copied to be sync'ed to central repo :'(
So what? I think that's perfectly fine.
--
I Am What I Am And That's All What I Yam (Popeye)
I don't think (bin|src)-(.zip|.tar.gz) should be part of Maven
artifacts on central repo, having them on the distribution servers is
enough
http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
http://www.99soft.org/
On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Jochen Wiedmann
jochen.wiedm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun,
On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 2:26 PM, Simone Tripodi simonetrip...@apache.org wrote:
I don't think (bin|src)-(.zip|.tar.gz) should be part of Maven
artifacts on central repo, having them on the distribution servers is
enough
I don't think doesn't count as a problem that ought to be fixed, isn't it?
shall I have to open an Issue so it does?
http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
http://www.99soft.org/
On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 8:19 PM, Jochen Wiedmann
jochen.wiedm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 2:26 PM, Simone Tripodi simonetrip...@apache.org
wrote:
I don't think
extension.
Do you have any suggestion to complete correctly the release process?
Thanks in advance!
Simo
mvn stage:copy
-Dsource=http://people.apache.org/builds/commons/discovery/0.5/RC2/staged/;
\
-Dtarget=scp://people.apache.org/www/people.apache.org/repo/m2-ibiblio-rsync-repository
doesn't work with M3 because the missing
wagon-ssh extension.
Do you have any suggestion to complete correctly the release process?
Thanks in advance!
Simo
mvn stage:copy
-Dsource=http://people.apache.org/builds/commons/discovery/0.5/RC2/staged/;
\
-Dtarget=scp://people.apache.org/www
Le 01/05/2011 12:53, Simone Tripodi a écrit :
Hi again,
I just realized that maybe artifacts produced by the assembly plugin
should not be attached[1], WDYT?
Simo
I agree. This is not the case already?
-
To unsubscribe,
Yes it is :( Problem is that for discovery-0.5, zip and tar.gz have
been copied to be sync'ed to central repo :'(
does someone have an idea how to remove them?
Thanks in advance,
Simo
http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
http://www.99soft.org/
On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 2:19 PM, Emmanuel Bourg
Moreover, after 4 hours the central has not been synched yet... are
you aware of any issue?
Simo
http://people.apache.org/~simonetripodi/
http://www.99soft.org/
On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 3:55 PM, Simone Tripodi simonetrip...@apache.org wrote:
Yes it is :( Problem is that for discovery-0.5, zip
On 5/1/11 7:58 AM, Simone Tripodi wrote:
Moreover, after 4 hours the central has not been synched yet... are
you aware of any issue?
It often takes quite a while, but it looks like commons-discovery
may not have yet been synched from m2-ibiblio-rsych, so you may need
to send a request to
On 5/1/11 6:55 AM, Simone Tripodi wrote:
Yes it is :( Problem is that for discovery-0.5, zip and tar.gz have
been copied to be sync'ed to central repo :'(
does someone have an idea how to remove them?
Thanks in advance,
Simo
I assume they have been *copied* not moved, right? So there is no
On 5/1/11 6:55 AM, Simone Tripodi wrote:
Yes it is :( Problem is that for discovery-0.5, zip and tar.gz have
been copied to be sync'ed to central repo :'(
does someone have an idea how to remove them?
I just tried to move the zips and tarballs to my home directory, but
could not because the
Thanks *a lot* Phil for your kind help.
I just executed the commands you suggested me, and dopped *tar.gz*
*zip* files, original are still on staged[1] repository
Looking forward to see Discovery synched!!!
Have a nice day,
Simo
[1]
On 5/1/11 9:18 AM, Simone Tripodi wrote:
Thanks *a lot* Phil for your kind help.
I just executed the commands you suggested me, and dopped *tar.gz*
*zip* files, original are still on staged[1] repository
Looking forward to see Discovery synched!!!
Have a nice day,
Simo
[1]
Very late, but I've been a tad busy in the new-parent department.
Generally I agree with Phil's email. I don't really care though - I
recognize that my main pain with Nexus is a) the experience to know
not to trust magical systems b) not being full of energy to follow
yet another build system
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 10:22 AM, Henri Yandell flame...@gmail.com wrote:
Very late, but I've been a tad busy in the new-parent department.
You didn't publish a POM yet, did you? ;-)
What I do care about is releasing often. Which is farcical given how
few times I've released. I want to
On 5 April 2011 09:32, Jochen Wiedmann jochen.wiedm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 10:22 AM, Henri Yandell flame...@gmail.com wrote:
[Side note; this is insane:
http://maven.apache.org/guides/mini/guide-encryption.html - I vomit
every time it's implied I should put passwords in
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 2:37 AM, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote:
On 5 April 2011 09:32, Jochen Wiedmann jochen.wiedm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 10:22 AM, Henri Yandell flame...@gmail.com wrote:
[Side note; this is insane:
http://maven.apache.org/guides/mini/guide-encryption.html -
On 31 March 2011 04:00, Phil Steitz phil.ste...@gmail.com wrote:
On 3/30/11 6:57 PM, sebb wrote:
On 31 March 2011 01:38, Phil Steitz phil.ste...@gmail.com wrote:
On 3/30/11 4:22 PM, Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Phil Steitz phil.ste...@gmail.com wrote:
I disagree
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 2:38 AM, Phil Steitz phil.ste...@gmail.com wrote:
And then you need to check the hashes and sigs again since you are
now working with downloaded copies of the files that we voted on.
Seems much easier and more correct to me to just scp the files to
p.a.o., let people
with that idea, because that area isn't covered by
either Nexus nor the maven-release-plugin. The work that we spend here
might even be adopted by other Apache projects. But that wasn't the
initial point of the discussion, was it?
I thoought the point was to improve the release process.
Since we
On 31 March 2011 12:08, Jochen Wiedmann jochen.wiedm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 2:38 AM, Phil Steitz phil.ste...@gmail.com wrote:
And then you need to check the hashes and sigs again since you are
now working with downloaded copies of the files that we voted on.
Seems much
On Mar 31, 2011, at 8:49 AM, sebb wrote:
On 31 March 2011 12:08, Jochen Wiedmann jochen.wiedm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 2:38 AM, Phil Steitz phil.ste...@gmail.com wrote:
And then you need to check the hashes and sigs again since you are
now working with downloaded copies
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 5:46 PM, sebb seb...@gmail.com wrote:
If they are left in Nexus staging, AFAIK they end up in Maven Central
when promoted.
And your point is?
--
I Am What I Am And That's All What I Yam (Popeye)
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On 31 March 2011 00:22, Jochen Wiedmann jochen.wiedm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Phil Steitz phil.ste...@gmail.com wrote:
I disagree with this. The most important artifacts are the
zips/tars that go to dist/. These *are* the ASF release. Nexus
makes it *harder* IMO
On 3/30/11 4:22 PM, Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Phil Steitz phil.ste...@gmail.com wrote:
I disagree with this. The most important artifacts are the
zips/tars that go to dist/. These *are* the ASF release. Nexus
makes it *harder* IMO to maintain provenance of
On 31 March 2011 01:38, Phil Steitz phil.ste...@gmail.com wrote:
On 3/30/11 4:22 PM, Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Phil Steitz phil.ste...@gmail.com wrote:
I disagree with this. The most important artifacts are the
zips/tars that go to dist/. These *are* the ASF
I'm seeing a lot of complaining on these threads but no actual proposal. If the
proposal is to move away from Maven/Nexus for a release for all of commons I'll
vote -1. OTOH, If some release managers want to do the release some other way
I'm not going to force them to use Maven/Nexus.
Ralph
On 3/30/11 6:57 PM, sebb wrote:
On 31 March 2011 01:38, Phil Steitz phil.ste...@gmail.com wrote:
On 3/30/11 4:22 PM, Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Phil Steitz phil.ste...@gmail.com wrote:
I disagree with this. The most important artifacts are the
zips/tars that go
On 3/30/11 7:07 PM, Ralph Goers wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of complaining on these threads but no actual proposal.
I started the thread with a proposal, which was to standardize on
the process documented on the web site. I know you don't like that
process and I am not going to insist that we force
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