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From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of David Nelson via EV
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 4:37 PM
To: Bill Dube; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zero self-discharge (was: Bicycle battery)
Bill,
I have dug through many scientific papers on Li
. Any
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From: Michael Ross [mailto:michael.e.r...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2015 6:30 AM
To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zero self
use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is
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From: Michael Ross [mailto:michael.e.r...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2015 6:30 AM
To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zero self-discharge (was: Bicycle
Folks, I hate to say it, but maybe it's time to tie a knot in this thread.
Plenty of good information has come to light, but I don't see any of the
major players budging an inch.
If you really think it's worth arguing more about this, by all means carry
on -- but please do it via private
I am not talking about LFP, I have no literature that is current about
LFP. I have been talking more generally about LiMO2. All I have seen is
contradictory, anecdotal info on LFP. Jack Richard doesn't think they have
spontaneous loss of charge - and onl;y a small loss of SOC from sitting -
1%
Why would you stop it? This is certainly not like the H2 fuel discussions -
not currently related to EVs. I liked those too from a philosophical POV
This is a semi technical list - I don't get why a difference of opinions
cannot involve a long running topic.
I delete emails all the time that I
Roger Stockton via EV wrote:
I think that it is possible that people are confusing *theoretical* cell
chemistry with that of *practical* cells.
I think that is exactly the case.
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice, they are not. -- Albert Einstein
Of
Oh, yea, sorry I don't know why I was thinking magneticfield.
At any rate the rest of what I said is accurate I believe.There is no electric
field in a battery. A battery is a chemical reactor. The reaction is called
red-ox reactions. In the battery is electrolyte which can conduct ions but
: paul dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org
Sent: 23-Jun-15 1:21:20 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zero self-discharge
Oh, yea, sorry I don't know why I was thinking magneticfield.
At any rate the rest of what I said is accurate I believe.There is no
electric
...@bellsouth.net; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
ev@lists.evdl.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 3:34 PM
Subject: Re[2]: [EVDL] Zero self-discharge
So, let me try to paraphrase this. Are you saying that
- the electrolyte can only conduct ions,
- with an open circuit (nothing connected to the terminals
There is not an electric field inside a battery. The electrolyte cause the
field to be in equilibrium otherwise it would immediately discharge. The field
is present when the terminals are connected and that is why you get ion
movement.
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 22, 2015, at 10:33 PM, Lee
Michael Ross wrote:
It is like a bunch of people simply don't want to understand that things
are not uniform across the field, that there is old tech that is being
surpassed, and that some things are turning out very well.
I would restate, I think it is possible that people don't recognise
HI John,
I would like to see where you got that idea from. I like reading original
material. Other ion paths is not clear to me.
My understanding is different.
Batteries store chemical potential energy. There is no electric field as
far as I know when you create a stable new chemical - in
Vehicle Discussion List
ev@lists.evdl.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 3:34 PM
Subject: Re[2]: [EVDL] Zero self-discharge
So, let me try to paraphrase this. Are you saying that
- the electrolyte can only conduct ions,
- with an open circuit (nothing connected to the terminals
Michael Ross via EV wrote:
I am comparing to the lead acid chemistry where the charged state has a
competing lower thermodynamic state, so a charge lead acid cell always runs
down even in the absence of any short circuit or load. One of the neat
things about Li ion cells that this condition
I’m not sure what you mean by this.
I am comparing to the lead acid chemistry where the charged state has a
competing lower thermodynamic state, so a charge lead acid cell always runs
down even in the absence of any short circuit or load. One of the neat
things about Li ion cells that this
is
prohibited.
From: Michael Ross [mailto:michael.e.r...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2015 6:30 AM
To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zero self-discharge (was: Bicycle battery)
I think this is going to come down to semantics and word
: [EVDL] Zero self-discharge (was: Bicycle battery)
Bill,
I have dug through many scientific papers on Li batteries and how they
work and I haven't been able to find anything about a theoretical
self-discharge mechanism. I have found some explicitly talking about the
lack of a charge shuttle
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zero self-discharge (was: Bicycle battery)
Bill,
I have dug through many scientific papers on Li batteries and how they work
and I haven't been able to find anything about a theoretical self-discharge
mechanism. I have found some explicitly talking about the lack of a charge
: Michael Ross [mailto:michael.e.r...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 8:06 PM
To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zero self-discharge (was: Bicycle battery)
Cor,
There is no author, no date, no publisher, no prior art, and no references
of this
message is prohibited.
-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of David Nelson via
EV
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 4:37 PM
To: Bill Dube; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zero self-discharge (was: Bicycle battery)
Bill,
I have
...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of David Nelson
via
EV
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 4:37 PM
To: Bill Dube; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zero self-discharge (was: Bicycle battery)
Bill,
I have dug through many scientific papers on Li batteries and how they
work and I
Bill,
I have dug through many scientific papers on Li batteries and how they
work and I haven't been able to find anything about a theoretical
self-discharge mechanism. I have found some explicitly talking about
the lack of a charge shuttle mechanism like in lead-acid batteries,
however.
One
List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zero self-discharge (was: Bicycle battery)
Bill,
I have dug through many scientific papers on Li batteries and how they work and
I haven't been able to find anything about a theoretical self-discharge
mechanism. I have found some explicitly talking about the lack
; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zero self-discharge (was: Bicycle battery)
Bill,
I have dug through many scientific papers on Li batteries and how they
work and I haven't been able to find anything about a theoretical
self-discharge mechanism. I have found some
of this message is
prohibited.
-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of David Nelson via EV
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 4:37 PM
To: Bill Dube; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zero self-discharge (was: Bicycle battery)
Bill,
I have
This zero self-discharge myth seems to be a common thread with the
anti-BMS crowd. I don't know where this misinformation comes from.
All cells have self-discharge. It is just a matter of degree. Also,
the self-discharge varies from cell to cell. That's why you need a
BMS. These are
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