Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla.

[EV List Lackey via EV]

On 25 Apr 2024 at 8:22, Mark E. Hanson via EV wrote:

> Where can I buy a Zoe in the US - or import?  That sounds like a great EV!

Renault hasn't had US dealers since 1983, unless you count the Renault-
licensed AMC Alliance and Encore, which AMC dealers sold until '87.  So Zoes 
have never been offered in the US, and never will be, unfortunately.

If you were really determined, it might be possible to direct-import one. 
Gettting repair parts would be interesting.  

Or you could move to the EU and have a much wider choice of EVs, including 
affordable small ones.  

The Citroen EC3 is already on sale at around 23k euros (about $25k), or 
about $20k after the French eco subsidy.  The subsidy differs in other EU 
nations.

https://www.media.stellantis.com/em-en/citroen/press/citroen-reveals-the-all-
new-e-c3-the-first-european-affordable-electric-car

or https://v.gd/YyanQF

More EVs in the same price range are on the way from other EU manufacturers.

No doubt from China too.  However the French subsidy doesn't apply to 
Chinese EVs, because it's linked to the vehicle's production carbon 
emissions.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla.

[Rush via EV]

I don't think there is anything in what was quoted about doing the thumb drive
thing while driving... and besides what makes you think that the car only goes
70 mph? It actually has to start at 0 mph and progress up to whatever speed you
feel comfortable with.

In my M3 refresh, I removed the thumb drive that was already in the USB port in
the glove compartment, added another partition "Music", reinserted it and in the
infotainment screen a new icon shaped like a USB thumb drive showed up and now I
have all my favorite (and some unfavorite) music that I can play whenever I want
to.

Very easy to do. Just as simple as emergency gas on the first car I owned, a
Karmen Ghia. It didn't even have a gas gauge, when I ran out of gas, I just used
my foot to turn a lever on the firewall and had another 20 miles or so. But like
all things that are new, you have to know how to do it.

Best regards,

Rush Dougherty
TucsonEV
1014 E King St
Tucson AZ 85719
520 240 7493
www.TucsonEV.com




> -Original Message-
> From: EV  On Behalf Of EV List Lackey via EV
> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2024 1:31 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
> Cc: EV List Lackey 
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla.
>
> On 22 Apr 2024 at 19:22, Luke Scharf via EV wrote:
>
> > A high quality antenna and FM receiver might make it better.
>
> Or, you know, a factory radio that you can actually count on to pick up radio
> stations consistently.  Even my dad's '56 Chevy had one.  :-\
>
> On 21 Apr 2024 at 22:14, Mark Hanson via EV wrote:
>
> > I tried to play a USB flash drive mp3 music in the 4 usc small ports
> > with adapter and no icons showed up.  Asking the great god google -
> > recommended to use the USB port inside the glove box that after poking
> > and hoping (got a light show and then fart mode working ), then it
> > started playing music after asking for a media upgrade (which I
> > ignored).  If I can get it working and playing music consistently,
> > won´t it inhibit sentry mode or camera data storage mode incase if an
> > accident that uses the flash drive inside the glovebox?  The Bluetooth
> > mp3 player works most of the time but has a complicated boot up
> > procedure.
>
> That seems needlessly complex. Can you do that safely while driving?  Do you
trust
> Tesla's driving assistance enough to go poking round in the glove box at
70mph?
>
> For comparison, I took a thumb drive out to the garage, turned on the Zoe's
radio,
> and plugged the drive into one of the USB slots in plain sight, right under
the HVAC
> knobs.  I hit the "Sources" button on the audio screen, and there it was.  Hit
the
> USB button and the music played.
>
> It was quite intuitive.
>
> But that's one of the things I like about the Zoe.  It drives like a normal
car, with
> normal controls in normal places.
>
> Also, it doesn't make adolescent-boy fart noises.
>
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my offlist
address
> here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>
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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla.

[(-Phil-) via EV]

Aside from the fact that a '56 Chevy is stone-age compared to modern
technology, how can you make a comparison?

I thought most of the people who bemoaned electronics in cars have died off
by now, or are too old to drive.  Yeah, not everyone gets a UI right, but I
much prefer the UI and systems in a Modern Tesla over anything made even 10
years ago.  One of the best things to happen is all the advanced safety
systems that electronics and modern compute brings to the table.

I suspect commercial FM radio is dying a slow death, it'll last a little
longer than AM, but not much.  I can't stand to listen to anything but NPR
because of the incessant advertising which seems to now make up around 30%
of the airtime.  You (us) geezers better get used to it!  =)


On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 1:33 PM EV List Lackey via EV 
wrote:

> On 22 Apr 2024 at 19:22, Luke Scharf via EV wrote:
>
> > A high quality antenna and FM receiver might make it better.
>
> Or, you know, a factory radio that you can actually count on to pick up
> radio stations consistently.  Even my dad's '56 Chevy had one.  :-\
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla.

[EV List Lackey via EV]

On 22 Apr 2024 at 19:22, Luke Scharf via EV wrote:

> A high quality antenna and FM receiver might make it better.

Or, you know, a factory radio that you can actually count on to pick up 
radio stations consistently.  Even my dad's '56 Chevy had one.  :-\

On 21 Apr 2024 at 22:14, Mark Hanson via EV wrote:

> I tried to play a USB flash drive mp3 music in the 4 usc small ports
> with adapter and no icons showed up.  Asking the great god google -
> recommended to use the USB port inside the glove box that after poking
> and hoping (got a light show and then fart mode working ), then it
> started playing music after asking for a media upgrade (which I
> ignored).  If I can get it working and playing music consistently,
> won´t it inhibit sentry mode or camera data storage mode incase if an
> accident that uses the flash drive inside the glovebox?  The Bluetooth
> mp3 player works most of the time but has a complicated boot up
> procedure. 

That seems needlessly complex. Can you do that safely while driving?  Do you 
trust Tesla's driving assistance enough to go poking round in the glove box 
at 70mph?

For comparison, I took a thumb drive out to the garage, turned on the Zoe's 
radio, and plugged the drive into one of the USB slots in plain sight, right 
under the HVAC knobs.  I hit the "Sources" button on the audio screen, and 
there it was.  Hit the USB button and the music played.  

It was quite intuitive.  

But that's one of the things I like about the Zoe.  It drives like a normal 
car, with normal controls in normal places.

Also, it doesn't make adolescent-boy fart noises.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

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   -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla.

[(-Phil-) via EV]

I provided this link 6 days ago, no idea how well it performs, especially
inside the Tesla, which has IR blocking metallic tint in all the glass, so
signals inside the car are weak:  https://amzn.to/3U5lUmq

On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 9:25 PM Luke Scharf via EV 
wrote:

> A device like this is what was suggested:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Transmitter-Receiver-LAICOMEIN-Headphones/dp/B0BDF8S8H4/
>
> Combine it with something like this:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/ZHIWHIS-Portable-Transistor-Conference-Batteries/dp/B08JCNMJKF
>
> Plug it all together, pair it with the car (the car will act as a Bluetooth
> speaker) and you've got a portable system that meets your stated
> requirements.
>
> A high quality antenna and FM receiver might make it better.
>
> There may be an integrated unit that does all of this, but it's hard to
> search for because there are so many bluetooth receivers that then transmit
> a low-power FM signal.  I have seen some HAM radio transceivers which can
> play on a Bluetooth speaker. and I own one that has an FM receiver --maybe
> there's one which has both?
>
> -Luke
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 10:41 PM Lee Hart via EV 
> wrote:
>
> > > In the era of streaming any am or fm radio station, radio reception
> > ability is almost mute.
> > > A simple portable radio hooked to a Bluetooth transmitter is all you
> > need, if you can't stream.
> >
> > Maybe for some people. But I happen to like listening to an actual radio,
> > without having to subscribe to some streaming service.
> >
> > Most cheap portable radios also have worse sensitivity, selectivity, and
> > fidelity than the radios normally put in cars.
> >
> > Lee
> > --
> > Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart https://www.sunrise-ev.com
> >
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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla.

[Luke Scharf via EV]

A device like this is what was suggested:
https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Transmitter-Receiver-LAICOMEIN-Headphones/dp/B0BDF8S8H4/

Combine it with something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/ZHIWHIS-Portable-Transistor-Conference-Batteries/dp/B08JCNMJKF

Plug it all together, pair it with the car (the car will act as a Bluetooth
speaker) and you've got a portable system that meets your stated
requirements.

A high quality antenna and FM receiver might make it better.

There may be an integrated unit that does all of this, but it's hard to
search for because there are so many bluetooth receivers that then transmit
a low-power FM signal.  I have seen some HAM radio transceivers which can
play on a Bluetooth speaker. and I own one that has an FM receiver --maybe
there's one which has both?

-Luke


On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 10:41 PM Lee Hart via EV  wrote:

> > In the era of streaming any am or fm radio station, radio reception
> ability is almost mute.
> > A simple portable radio hooked to a Bluetooth transmitter is all you
> need, if you can't stream.
>
> Maybe for some people. But I happen to like listening to an actual radio,
> without having to subscribe to some streaming service.
>
> Most cheap portable radios also have worse sensitivity, selectivity, and
> fidelity than the radios normally put in cars.
>
> Lee
> --
> Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
> --
> Lee A. Hart https://www.sunrise-ev.com
>
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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla.

[Lawrence Winiarski via EV]

It works that way because when you plug in a USB device it sends some data that 
tells the host what type of device you 
have.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Device_classes
Most likely your phone identified as a hard drive (mass storage device) or a 
media device (MTP)  and it started playing whatever it could find that looked 
likemusic.
 
On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 08:11:13 PM PDT, Cor van de Water via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 I was surprised when I plugged my phone into my 2011 Leaf USB port to
charge and it automatically started playing the music stored on my phone.
Cor.

On Sun, Apr 21, 2024, 2:43 PM Lee Hart via EV  wrote:

> And to point out what a geezer I am, my cars have (gasp) CD or cassette
> tape players. On long lonely drives in the midwest, I listen to audio books
> or old classics on them.
> --
> Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
> --
> Lee A. Hart https://www.sunrise-ev.com
>
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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla.

[Cor van de Water via EV]

I was surprised when I plugged my phone into my 2011 Leaf USB port to
charge and it automatically started playing the music stored on my phone.
Cor.

On Sun, Apr 21, 2024, 2:43 PM Lee Hart via EV  wrote:

> And to point out what a geezer I am, my cars have (gasp) CD or cassette
> tape players. On long lonely drives in the midwest, I listen to audio books
> or old classics on them.
> --
> Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
> --
> Lee A. Hart https://www.sunrise-ev.com
>
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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla.

[Lee Hart via EV]

And to point out what a geezer I am, my cars have (gasp) CD or cassette tape 
players. On long lonely drives in the midwest, I listen to audio books or old 
classics on them.
--
Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart https://www.sunrise-ev.com

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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla.

[(-Phil-) via EV]

I guess I qualify as an old fart now too, but unless I really want to
listen to NPR I either do streaming (free in my Tesla), or put music and
audiobooks on a USB drive and the car plays that (Most cars built in the
last 10 years can do this, and it's free!).

Commercial radio is more advertising now than I can tolerate.

Get off my lawn!   =)

On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 7:49 AM Lee Hart via EV  wrote:

> Agreed. I only have a cheap pay-as-you-go phone ($99 a year). I only use
> it for calls or texts. If I used it like most people, I'd be paying $99 a
> month for all that "free" data.
>
> The AM and FM radio in my Leaf works just fine, and is free to use.
>
> Lee
> --
> Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
> --
> Lee A. Hart https://www.sunrise-ev.com
>
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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla.

[Steves via EV]

The other option is to download stuff to your phone before going out. Works for 
podcasts and at least some Internet radio stations (like RadioParadise). 

Frankly I don’t hear much on FM I like other than NPR. I got a free limited 
subscription to Sirius when I bought my car - ran through the stations and 
found nothing of real interest to me. And I think I have pretty broad tastes.

-Steve

> On Apr 20, 2024, at 10:48 AM, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:
> 
> Agreed. I only have a cheap pay-as-you-go phone ($99 a year). I only use it 
> for calls or texts. If I used it like most people, I'd be paying $99 a month 
> for all that "free" data.
> 
> The AM and FM radio in my Leaf works just fine, and is free to use.
> 
> Lee
> --
> Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
> --
> Lee A. Hart https://www.sunrise-ev.com
> 
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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla.

[Lee Hart via EV]

Agreed. I only have a cheap pay-as-you-go phone ($99 a year). I only use it for 
calls or texts. If I used it like most people, I'd be paying $99 a month for 
all that "free" data.

The AM and FM radio in my Leaf works just fine, and is free to use.

Lee
--
Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart https://www.sunrise-ev.com

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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla.

[EV List Lackey via EV]

On 20 Apr 2024 at 4:06, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

>  most FM stations stream for free - you don't need any subscription. 

True.  However, you need a generous - or unlimited - data subscription on 
your mobile phone. 

Folks who've abandoned their desktop and laptop computers and use their 
mobile phones for all their net access are probably fine with this.  

Some of us haven't, don't, and aren't.  My mobile is "pay as you go."  That 
much data would probably cost me 20 euros a month. It's not worth it.  

Besides, the Zoe's radio works fine, other than being a bit wonky to use 
(it's the car's only routine function that requires using the touchscreen).

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla.

[Peri Hartman via EV]

To be clear, Lee, most FM stations stream for free - you don't need any 
subscription. Of course, you need a device (e.g. smart phone) that can 
access their website and stream. But, also, I'll vouch for FM radio, 
because when you're on the road, streaming is not very reliable in many 
places. Maybe some day, but not now.


Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>


-- Original Message --
From: "Lee Hart via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" ; 
ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "Lee Hart" ; "Lawrence Rhodes" 


Sent: 19-Apr-24 16:22:45
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla.


 In the era of streaming any am or fm radio station, radio reception ability is 
almost mute.
 A simple portable radio hooked to a Bluetooth transmitter is all you need, if 
you can't stream.


Maybe for some people. But I happen to like listening to an actual radio, 
without having to subscribe to some streaming service.

Most cheap portable radios also have worse sensitivity, selectivity, and 
fidelity than the radios normally put in cars.

Lee
--
Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart https://www.sunrise-ev.com

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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla.

[Lee Hart via EV]

> In the era of streaming any am or fm radio station, radio reception ability 
> is almost mute.
> A simple portable radio hooked to a Bluetooth transmitter is all you need, if 
> you can't stream.

Maybe for some people. But I happen to like listening to an actual radio, 
without having to subscribe to some streaming service.

Most cheap portable radios also have worse sensitivity, selectivity, and 
fidelity than the radios normally put in cars.

Lee
--
Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart https://www.sunrise-ev.com

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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla.

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

 All you need is a phone hooked to bluetooth.  Most stations stream free on the 
world wide web. Otherwise a simple digital radio has  surprising fidelity and 
selectivity. Might have to shop around a bit to satisfy your taste in radio. 
Lawrence Rhodes 
On Friday, April 19, 2024, 04:22:49 PM PDT, Lee Hart 
 wrote:  
 
 > In the era of streaming any am or fm radio station, radio reception ability 
 > is almost mute.
> A simple portable radio hooked to a Bluetooth transmitter is all you need, if 
> you can't stream.

Maybe for some people. But I happen to like listening to an actual radio, 
without having to subscribe to some streaming service.

Most cheap portable radios also have worse sensitivity, selectivity, and 
fidelity than the radios normally put in cars.

Lee
--
Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart https://www.sunrise-ev.com

  
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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla

[Lawrence Winiarski via EV]

Ditto 

On Thursday, April 18, 2024 at 01:57:07 PM PDT, (-Phil-) via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 Sorry about that David.  I'll try and remember to trim my replies in the
future. (Starting with this one)  Appreciate your vigilance and work on the
list!

-Phil


  
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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla

[Ron via EV]

>From the log:

/runsv
backgammon
root  3825  0.0  0.0   2456   252 ?Ss   Apr15   0:00 runsv
backgammon-input
root  3826  0.0  0.0   2456  1288 ?Ss   Apr15   

Is there really a backgammon game?

If so, does this indicate that it's running as root instead of a more 
restrictive account?

If so, that doesn't sound like a good idea. Speaking of which, if that is 
running as root, it strikes me that there are quite a few things running as 
root that I think probably shouldn't be.

Note that I have no idea how constrained the hardware and operating system are. 
I can imagine embedded systems that don't really have the concept of non-root 
accounts.

On April 18, 2024 9:14:20 a.m. CST, "(-Phil-) via EV"  wrote:
>You can't compare an embedded system designed for industrial use to a
>large-surface GUI on a large OS with a lot of apps.
>
>You probably interact with a handful of systems every day that run linux.
>They all run many layers, and It probably usually isn't the Kernel.   Do
>you have the source for the top layers?  Do you even have a shell, let
>alone root?  Even if you are a developer of your caliber, and somehow had
>source and access, (almost never true) it's simply not feasible to attempt
>to debug someone else's system for some memory leaks that may cause reduced
>performance after weeks of uptime.
>
>Here's the process list on a Tesla Model 3 MCU just to give you an idea of
>what you'd be up against:
>USER   PID %CPU %MEMVSZ   RSS TTY  STAT START   TIME COMMAND
>root 1  0.0  0.0   1060 4 ?Ss   Apr15   0:02 runit
>root 2  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?SApr15   0:00 [kthreadd]
>root 6  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?I<   Apr15   0:00
>[mm_percpu_wq]
>root 7  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?SApr15   1:36
>[ksoftirqd/0]
>root 8  0.4  0.0  0 0 ?IApr15  14:54
>[rcu_preempt]
>root 9  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?IApr15   3:29 [rcu_sched]
>root10  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?IApr15   0:00 [rcu_bh]
>root11  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?SApr15   0:42
>[migration/0]
>root12  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?SApr15   0:01
>[watchdog/0]
>root13  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?SApr15   0:00 [cpuhp/0]
>root14  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?SApr15   0:00 [cpuhp/1]
>root15  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?SApr15   0:01
>[watchdog/1]
>root16  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?SApr15   0:00
>[migration/1]
>root17  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?SApr15   0:00
>[ksoftirqd/1]
>root19  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?I<   Apr15   0:00
>[kworker/1:0H]
>root20  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?SApr15   0:00 [cpuhp/2]
>root21  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?SApr15   0:02
>[watchdog/2]
>root22  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?SApr15   2:16
>[migration/2]
>root23  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?SApr15   0:23
>[ksoftirqd/2]
>root25  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?I<   Apr15   0:00
>[kworker/2:0H]
>root26  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?SApr15   0:00 [cpuhp/3]
>root27  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?SApr15   0:01
>[watchdog/3]
>root28  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?SApr15   2:34
>[migration/3]
>root29  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?SApr15   0:21
>[ksoftirqd/3]
>root31  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?I<   Apr15   0:00
>[kworker/3:0H]
>root32  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?SApr15   0:00 [kdevtmpfs]
>root33  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?I<   Apr15   0:00 [netns]
>root   261  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?SApr15   0:00
>[oom_reaper]
>root   262  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?I<   Apr15   0:00 [writeback]
>root   264  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?SApr15   0:17
>[kcompactd0]
>root   265  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?I<   Apr15   0:00 [crypto]
>root   267  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?I<   Apr15   0:00 [kblockd]
>root   465  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?I<   Apr15   0:00
>[edac-poller]
>root   471  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?I<   Apr15   0:00 [watchdogd]
>root   590  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?SApr15   0:00 [kauditd]
>root   601  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?SApr15   2:06 [kswapd0]
>root   723  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?I07:08   0:01
>[kworker/2:0]
>root   742  0.0  0.0   3272  2528 ?SL   Apr17   0:00
>/bin/minijail0 -T static -l -p -I -v -P /run/chroot/AWE_command_line_tesla
>-K -b/usr /usr -b/lib /lib
>root   751  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?I<   Apr15   0:00
>[acpi_thermal_pm]
>root   765  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?SApr15   0:00
>[irq/39-mmc0]
>root   768  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?SApr15   0:00
>[irq/3-mmc1]
>root   771  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?SApr15   0:00
>[irq/120-:00]
>root   773  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?S   

Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla

[(-Phil-) via EV]

Sorry about that David.  I'll try and remember to trim my replies in the
future. (Starting with this one)  Appreciate your vigilance and work on the
list!

-Phil

On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 1:18 PM EV List Lackey via EV 
wrote:

> I'm over here with a plunger and snake, clearing a clog out of the
> listserver.
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla

[EV List Lackey via EV]

I'm over here with a plunger and snake, clearing a clog out of the 
listserver.

So this is what happened.

Phil posted a very long message to the list, with a Tesla process list, and 
the listserver held it because of its size.

Phil CCed Lawrence, and the replies went back and forth between them, ALSO 
going to the server but not being distributed.

And the reason they weren't distributed is that Phil and Lawrence top-posted 
all the way through, so a 256k byte message stayed tacked on to every 
message.   By the last post, the message had grown to 352kB.

Folks, please don't do that. To terminally mix my metaphors, it gives the 
listserver indigestion.

To set things straight, here's the blocked thread, condensed to a manageable 
size:

==

Lawrence, Thu, 18 Apr 2024 12:30:33 + (UTC) 

> all modern software on complex systems with a large OS will have some
> amount of memory leaks, so it's always a good idea to do an occasional
> reboot to clear things up.  I've seen Tesla uptimes without reboots of
> over 2 years, but they are usually running like molasses by then. 

That's such a defeatist attitude.   Memory leaks aren't inevitable and there 
are lots of tools to find them.    It's the result of shoddy, lazy 
programming, not some fact of nature.      Howevercomplicated you think the 
Tesla software is, the Linux OS is much bigger project and more complicated 
and luckily Linus has always had a low tolerance for stupid excuses.  

-

Phil, Thu, 18 Apr 2024 08:14:20 -0700 (15:14:20 UTC)

You can't compare an embedded system designed for industrial use to a large-
surface GUI on a large OS with a lot of apps.  

You probably interact with a handful of systems every day that run linux. 
They all run many layers, and It probably usually isn't the Kernel.   Do you 
have the source for the top layers?  Do you even have a shell, let alone 
root? Even if you are a developer of your caliber, and somehow had source 
and access, (almost never true) it's simply not feasible to attempt to debug 
someone else's system for some memory leaks that may cause reduced 
performance after weeks of uptime.  

Here's the process list on a Tesla Model 3 MCU just to give you an idea of 
what you'd be up against:  

(See original message for list)

*

-

Lawrence, Thu, 18 Apr 2024 15:28:38 + (UTC)

I'm not saying it's "your" problem to solve.   It's the guy who wrote it. 
And getting the process list is a good place to start.   I'm actually not 
overwhelmed by it.     Most of the processes have a pretty miniscule memory. 
  Sort by memory usage and compare over time.   As I said I'm not a Tesla 
guy, but I used to have a pretty good understanding of Linux. I see some 
of them use "QT".   Personally I think "QT" has become very bloated from 
what used to be.    I wouldn't use a "QT"application anymore.   That's my 
opinion anyway.   I also see "minijail".    Is it working? This isn't rocket 
science.   It's just work.  

-

Phil, Thu, 18 Apr 2024 08:44:19 -0700 (15:44:19 UTC)

On a system this large there is no one "guy".  It's made up of many years of 
legacy code with a team of hundreds of different developers over time. They 
aren't going to just throw out QT and re-code it from scratch. There's too 
much inertia, and no matter what you think, nobody cares about fixing the 
leaks.   I'd argue the Linux kernel itself is highly bloated compared to 
where it was when I started using it.  

-

Lawrence, Thu, 18 Apr 2024 15:53:21 + (UTC)

Of course it's not one "guy".    But it most likely is "one guy" who made 
the mistake. Anyway, if nobody cares about memory leaks, then they will 
never get fixed...and lowering standards probably isn't the path to 
excellence.  

I personally am stubborn enough to care. Anyway, since you have the data, 
why not at least narrow it down to what process is growing over time?    
That ought to give you a path toward fixing it.and you were the one to 
ask me what I'd do...and I'm telling you.  

-

Phil, Thu, 18 Apr 2024 09:36:57 -0700 (16:36:57 UTC)

I have way better things to do, and I don't have source code, I'm sure as 
hell not going to bother decomp.  

I don't mind an occasional reboot.

-

Lawrence, Thu, 18 Apr 2024 17:02:58 + (UTC)

I completely understand.   As I tried to say it's not your problem, it's the 
people who wrote it.     

As I said, I don't have a Tesla, but looking through your process list, I 
see a lot of what looks like QT apps.    As an early user of QT, it used to 
be pretty good when it was 10 people and made really pretty X apps when most 
of the stuff looked pretty stodgy.    But honestly the good things about it 
was that drew standard widgets and menusbut they've tried to make it way 
bigger than was necessary and tried to lock the user into using their thread 
stuff, their SQL stuff, their OPENGL, etc.    IMHO I'm a smart enough to 
make my own decisions about that.   I just want it to draw some 

Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla.

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

 In the era of streaming any am or fm radio station, radio reception ability is 
almost mute. A simple portable radio hooked to a Bluetooth transmitter is all 
you need, if you can't stream. Total cost starts under $20.  Lawrence Rhodes 
https://www.google.com/search?q=am+fm+portable+radio+amazon=am+fm+portable+_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgCEAAYgAQyBwgAEAAYgAQyBggBEEUYOTIHCAIQABiABDIHCAMQABiABDIHCAQQABiABDIHCAUQABiABDIHCAYQABiABDIHCAcQABiABDIHCAgQABiABDIICAkQABgWGB4yCAgKEAAYFhgeMggICxAAGBYYHjIICAwQABgWGB4yCAgNEAAYFhgeMggIDhAAGBYYHtIBCTEwMjI1ajBqOKgCALACAA=tablet-android-samsung=chrome-mobile=UTF-8.
 
https://www.google.com/search?q=bluetooth+transmitter%2Freceiver+audio+adapter=Bluetooth+transmitter%2Freceiver+_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgBEAAYgAQyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQABiABDIHCAIQABiABDIHCAMQABiABDIICAQQABgWGB4yCAgFEAAYFhgeMggIBhAAGBYYHjIICAcQABgWGB4yCAgIEAAYFhgeMggICRAAGBYYHjIICAoQABgWGB4yCAgLEAAYFhgeMggIDBAAGBYYHjIICA0QABgWGB4yCAgOEAAYFhge0gEJMzkzMjhqMGo4qAIAsAIA=tablet-android-samsung=chrome-mobile=UTF-8
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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla

[(-Phil-) via EV]

trial hydraulics and motors. I did NOT let people just install
> whatever software they wanted and tried my best to vet whatever I did
> run. I didn't trust things I didn't understand.I tried to keep
> things as simple
> as possible so I did understand it. I separated the user interface
> from the real time stuff.
>
> So you say the GUI is hogging memory. Can you run something simple
> like "top"?   Which processes are getting bigger?
> Do you know what they are?   Can you see what their parents are?  Can you
> narrow it down from "leaks" to "process with PID 2345"?  Obviously that's
> the way to start debugging the problem.
> .
> On Thursday, April 18, 2024, 7:12:23 AM PDT, (-Phil-) 
> wrote:
>
>
> I always try to produce good solid code, but it's not defeatist, it's
> reality.  Basically every modern OS and its stack of applications and
> drivers have millions of lines and tens of thousands of developers,
> including a lot of legacy code.   Linux and MacOS are pretty good compared
> to Windoze, but the fact remains, the leaks are there.   I have real-time
> data from about 3000 Teslas (albeit most of them older), and the GUI shows
> marked increases in resource usage and slowdowns after a month or so.
> Usually not a problem for most Tesla owners because as Kevin points out,
> when a software update comes down, there is a required reboot (usually at
> night while you are sleeping).   However, a lot of owners of salvage cars
> connected to my system eschew updates and prefer to stick with the same
> solid release once they find one, so the "free reboot" doesn't happen.
>
> It's no different on a desktop or smartphone either.  The more recent
> devices have so much RAM and CPU that most people aren't going to notice a
> large wastage.   I reboot my phone at least once a month.
>
> How do YOU propose YOU find and eradicate memory leaks without source code
> and root access on your device?  Even if you had all that, are you going to
> spend thousands of man-hours debugging, compiling, optimizing and testing
> to fix it?
>
> The mantra of today's software:  SHIP IT.
>
> On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 5:30 AM Lawrence Winiarski <
> lawrence_winiar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> That's such a defeatist attitude.   Memory leaks aren't inevitable and
> there are lots of tools to find them.It's the result of shoddy, lazy
> programming, not some fact of nature.  However
> complicated you think the Tesla software is, the Linux OS is much bigger
> project and more complicated and luckily Linus has always had a low
> tolerance for stupid excuses.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 17, 2024 at 04:17:39 PM PDT, (-Phil-) via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
>
>
> Yes, you don't HAVE to reboot it.  Same thing for your PC or phone, but all
> modern software on complex systems with a large OS will have some amount of
> memory leaks, so it's always a good idea to do an occasional reboot to
> clear things up.  I've seen Tesla uptimes without reboots of over 2 years,
> but they are usually running like molasses by then.
>
> Comparing the level of compute in a Zoe to the amount in a recent Tesla is
> like comparing the Apollo Guidance computer to a modern PC.  The
> infotainment (main screen) in a Tesla is, in fact essentially a PC running
> Linux.  The autopilot computer adds a level of compute several orders of
> magnitude over that.
>
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 4:10 PM Rush via EV  wrote:
>
> > Now, now, EV list lackey, calm down... just because it is recommended, it
> > doesn't mean that the sky will fall on your head if you don't do it.
> >
> > My first M3 was bought in 2019 (I just traded it in for the refresh model
> > because the FSD would transfer, a good deal if you ask me) and in those
> > almost 5
> > years I've done a reboot maybe 3 times
> >
> > And I take issue with your blanket statement 'I can't imagine that the
> Zoe
> > is
> > any less computerized than a Tesla'. That, to me, just sounds like
> someone
> > that's saying anything to put down Tesla's.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Rush Dougherty
> > www.TucsonEV.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: EV  On Behalf Of EV List Lackey via
> EV
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2024 3:41 PM
> > > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
> > > Cc: EV List Lackey 
> > > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla
> > >
> > > On 17 Apr 2024 at 10:27, (-Phil-) via EV wrote:
> > >
> > > > It's normal to need to do the first simple 5 second reboot on Tesl

Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla

[Lawrence Winiarski via EV]

How would I do it?   Well, first of all with Linux you do have the source code. 
  That is probably a good reason  why it'sgood because people can fix bugs. 
Then there is what software you choose to run.    It you allow anything written 
by anybody, sure you will have problems, but even then there is a difference 
between applications and protected code.    And modern processors have 
protection built into them.    

II don't own a Tesla and no virtually nothing about it, but I have written 
large embedded systems that run 24/7 and control lots of dangerous powerful 
industrial hydraulics and motors.     I did NOT let people just install 
whatever software they wanted and tried my best to vet whatever I did run. 
I didn't trust things I didn't understand.    I tried to keep things as 
simpleas possible so I did understand it. I separated the user interface 
from the real time stuff.

So you say the GUI is hogging memory. Can you run something simple like 
"top"?   Which processes are getting bigger?Do you know what they are?   Can 
you see what their parents are?  Can you narrow it down from "leaks" to 
"process with PID 2345"?  Obviously that's the way to start debugging the 
problem.
.On Thursday, April 18, 2024, 7:12:23 AM PDT, (-Phil-)  
wrote:  
 
 I always try to produce good solid code, but it's not defeatist, it's reality. 
 Basically every modern OS and its stack of applications and drivers have 
millions of lines and tens of thousands of developers, including a lot of 
legacy code.   Linux and MacOS are pretty good compared to Windoze, but the 
fact remains, the leaks are there.   I have real-time data from about 3000 
Teslas (albeit most of them older), and the GUI shows marked increases in 
resource usage and slowdowns after a month or so.   Usually not a problem for 
most Tesla owners because as Kevin points out, when a software update comes 
down, there is a required reboot (usually at night while you are sleeping).   
However, a lot of owners of salvage cars connected to my system eschew updates 
and prefer to stick with the same solid release once they find one, so the 
"free reboot" doesn't happen.
It's no different on a desktop or smartphone either.  The more recent devices 
have so much RAM and CPU that most people aren't going to notice a large 
wastage.   I reboot my phone at least once a month.
How do YOU propose YOU find and eradicate memory leaks without source code and 
root access on your device?  Even if you had all that, are you going to spend 
thousands of man-hours debugging, compiling, optimizing and testing to fix it?
The mantra of today's software:  SHIP IT.
 
On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 5:30 AM Lawrence Winiarski 
 wrote:

That's such a defeatist attitude.   Memory leaks aren't inevitable and there 
are lots of tools to find them.    It's the result of shoddy, lazy programming, 
not some fact of nature.      Howevercomplicated you think the Tesla software 
is, the Linux OS is much bigger project and more complicated and luckily Linus 
has always had a low tolerance for stupid excuses.   


On Wednesday, April 17, 2024 at 04:17:39 PM PDT, (-Phil-) via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 Yes, you don't HAVE to reboot it.  Same thing for your PC or phone, but all
modern software on complex systems with a large OS will have some amount of
memory leaks, so it's always a good idea to do an occasional reboot to
clear things up.  I've seen Tesla uptimes without reboots of over 2 years,
but they are usually running like molasses by then.

Comparing the level of compute in a Zoe to the amount in a recent Tesla is
like comparing the Apollo Guidance computer to a modern PC.  The
infotainment (main screen) in a Tesla is, in fact essentially a PC running
Linux.  The autopilot computer adds a level of compute several orders of
magnitude over that.

On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 4:10 PM Rush via EV  wrote:

> Now, now, EV list lackey, calm down... just because it is recommended, it
> doesn't mean that the sky will fall on your head if you don't do it.
>
> My first M3 was bought in 2019 (I just traded it in for the refresh model
> because the FSD would transfer, a good deal if you ask me) and in those
> almost 5
> years I've done a reboot maybe 3 times
>
> And I take issue with your blanket statement 'I can't imagine that the Zoe
> is
> any less computerized than a Tesla'. That, to me, just sounds like someone
> that's saying anything to put down Tesla's.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rush Dougherty
> www.TucsonEV.com
>
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: EV  On Behalf Of EV List Lackey via EV
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2024 3:41 PM
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
> > Cc: EV List Lackey 
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla
> >
> > On 17 Apr 2024 at 10:27, (-Phil-) via EV wrote:
> >
> > > It's nor

Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla

[(-Phil-) via EV]

I always try to produce good solid code, but it's not defeatist, it's
reality.  Basically every modern OS and its stack of applications and
drivers have millions of lines and tens of thousands of developers,
including a lot of legacy code.   Linux and MacOS are pretty good compared
to Windoze, but the fact remains, the leaks are there.   I have real-time
data from about 3000 Teslas (albeit most of them older), and the GUI shows
marked increases in resource usage and slowdowns after a month or so.
Usually not a problem for most Tesla owners because as Kevin points out,
when a software update comes down, there is a required reboot (usually at
night while you are sleeping).   However, a lot of owners of salvage cars
connected to my system eschew updates and prefer to stick with the same
solid release once they find one, so the "free reboot" doesn't happen.

It's no different on a desktop or smartphone either.  The more recent
devices have so much RAM and CPU that most people aren't going to notice a
large wastage.   I reboot my phone at least once a month.

How do YOU propose YOU find and eradicate memory leaks without source code
and root access on your device?  Even if you had all that, are you going to
spend thousands of man-hours debugging, compiling, optimizing and testing
to fix it?

The mantra of today's software:  SHIP IT.

On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 5:30 AM Lawrence Winiarski <
lawrence_winiar...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> That's such a defeatist attitude.   Memory leaks aren't inevitable and
> there are lots of tools to find them.It's the result of shoddy, lazy
> programming, not some fact of nature.  However
> complicated you think the Tesla software is, the Linux OS is much bigger
> project and more complicated and luckily Linus has always had a low
> tolerance for stupid excuses.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 17, 2024 at 04:17:39 PM PDT, (-Phil-) via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
>
>
> Yes, you don't HAVE to reboot it.  Same thing for your PC or phone, but all
> modern software on complex systems with a large OS will have some amount of
> memory leaks, so it's always a good idea to do an occasional reboot to
> clear things up.  I've seen Tesla uptimes without reboots of over 2 years,
> but they are usually running like molasses by then.
>
> Comparing the level of compute in a Zoe to the amount in a recent Tesla is
> like comparing the Apollo Guidance computer to a modern PC.  The
> infotainment (main screen) in a Tesla is, in fact essentially a PC running
> Linux.  The autopilot computer adds a level of compute several orders of
> magnitude over that.
>
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 4:10 PM Rush via EV  wrote:
>
> > Now, now, EV list lackey, calm down... just because it is recommended, it
> > doesn't mean that the sky will fall on your head if you don't do it.
> >
> > My first M3 was bought in 2019 (I just traded it in for the refresh model
> > because the FSD would transfer, a good deal if you ask me) and in those
> > almost 5
> > years I've done a reboot maybe 3 times
> >
> > And I take issue with your blanket statement 'I can't imagine that the
> Zoe
> > is
> > any less computerized than a Tesla'. That, to me, just sounds like
> someone
> > that's saying anything to put down Tesla's.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Rush Dougherty
> > www.TucsonEV.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: EV  On Behalf Of EV List Lackey via
> EV
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2024 3:41 PM
> > > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
> > > Cc: EV List Lackey 
> > > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla
> > >
> > > On 17 Apr 2024 at 10:27, (-Phil-) via EV wrote:
> > >
> > > > It's normal to need to do the first simple 5 second reboot on Teslas
> > > > every few weeks.  Doesn't hurt anything and can make a sluggish UI
> > > > fast again.
> > >
> > > That's considered NORMAL?  Seriously?
> > >
> > > Insanity.  You can't expect drivers to reboot their cars "ever;y few
> > weeks."
> > >  I can just imagine how my low-tech other half, Margaret, would react
> if
> > she
> > had
> > > to do that.
> > >
> > > But she's never had any such problem.  We've owned our Renault Zoe EV
> > for over
> > > 4 years and have never had to reboot anything.  It just works.  And so
> > does
> > its
> > > radio.
> > >
> > > I can't imagine that the Zoe is any less computerized than a Tesla.  I
> > suspect
> > that
> > > the Zoe's firmware is just 

Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla

[Lawrence Winiarski via EV]

That's such a defeatist attitude.   Memory leaks aren't inevitable and there 
are lots of tools to find them.    It's the result of shoddy, lazy programming, 
not some fact of nature.      Howevercomplicated you think the Tesla software 
is, the Linux OS is much bigger project and more complicated and luckily Linus 
has always had a low tolerance for stupid excuses.   


On Wednesday, April 17, 2024 at 04:17:39 PM PDT, (-Phil-) via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 Yes, you don't HAVE to reboot it.  Same thing for your PC or phone, but all
modern software on complex systems with a large OS will have some amount of
memory leaks, so it's always a good idea to do an occasional reboot to
clear things up.  I've seen Tesla uptimes without reboots of over 2 years,
but they are usually running like molasses by then.

Comparing the level of compute in a Zoe to the amount in a recent Tesla is
like comparing the Apollo Guidance computer to a modern PC.  The
infotainment (main screen) in a Tesla is, in fact essentially a PC running
Linux.  The autopilot computer adds a level of compute several orders of
magnitude over that.

On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 4:10 PM Rush via EV  wrote:

> Now, now, EV list lackey, calm down... just because it is recommended, it
> doesn't mean that the sky will fall on your head if you don't do it.
>
> My first M3 was bought in 2019 (I just traded it in for the refresh model
> because the FSD would transfer, a good deal if you ask me) and in those
> almost 5
> years I've done a reboot maybe 3 times
>
> And I take issue with your blanket statement 'I can't imagine that the Zoe
> is
> any less computerized than a Tesla'. That, to me, just sounds like someone
> that's saying anything to put down Tesla's.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rush Dougherty
> www.TucsonEV.com
>
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: EV  On Behalf Of EV List Lackey via EV
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2024 3:41 PM
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
> > Cc: EV List Lackey 
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla
> >
> > On 17 Apr 2024 at 10:27, (-Phil-) via EV wrote:
> >
> > > It's normal to need to do the first simple 5 second reboot on Teslas
> > > every few weeks.  Doesn't hurt anything and can make a sluggish UI
> > > fast again.
> >
> > That's considered NORMAL?  Seriously?
> >
> > Insanity.  You can't expect drivers to reboot their cars "ever;y few
> weeks."
> >  I can just imagine how my low-tech other half, Margaret, would react if
> she
> had
> > to do that.
> >
> > But she's never had any such problem.  We've owned our Renault Zoe EV
> for over
> > 4 years and have never had to reboot anything.  It just works.  And so
> does
> its
> > radio.
> >
> > I can't imagine that the Zoe is any less computerized than a Tesla.  I
> suspect
> that
> > the Zoe's firmware is just more thoroughly debugged.  Renault has a long
> history -
> > they're 136 years old - and a hard-earned reputation to protect.
> >
> > David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
> >
> > To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my offlist
> address
> > here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
> >
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >
> >      It's the desire to be barbaric that makes governments call their
> >      enemies barbarians.
> >
> >                                                    -- Bertolt Brecht
> >
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >
> > ___
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> > No other addresses in TO and CC fields
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
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> > www.avg.com
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla

[Kevin Horton via EV]

I had to reboot our 2019 M3 every few weeks for the first year or so that I 
owned it, then much less frequently as time went on and the software got more 
refined.  I think I've had to reboot our 2022 Model S once in the 18 months 
that we have had it.

Mind you, Teslas get software updates every few weeks, and the update process 
culminates with the car rebooting.  So that likely clears out a lot of cruft.

Kevin

> On Apr 17, 2024, at 20:05, Rush via EV  wrote:
> 
> Now, now, EV list lackey, calm down... just because it is recommended, it
> doesn't mean that the sky will fall on your head if you don't do it.
> 
> My first M3 was bought in 2019 (I just traded it in for the refresh model
> because the FSD would transfer, a good deal if you ask me) and in those 
> almost 5
> years I've done a reboot maybe 3 times
> 
> And I take issue with your blanket statement 'I can't imagine that the Zoe is
> any less computerized than a Tesla'. That, to me, just sounds like someone
> that's saying anything to put down Tesla's.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Rush Dougherty
> www.TucsonEV.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: EV  On Behalf Of EV List Lackey via EV
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2024 3:41 PM
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
>> Cc: EV List Lackey 
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla
>> 
>> On 17 Apr 2024 at 10:27, (-Phil-) via EV wrote:
>> 
>>> It's normal to need to do the first simple 5 second reboot on Teslas
>>> every few weeks.  Doesn't hurt anything and can make a sluggish UI
>>> fast again.
>> 
>> That's considered NORMAL?  Seriously?
>> 
>> Insanity.  You can't expect drivers to reboot their cars "ever;y few weeks."
>> I can just imagine how my low-tech other half, Margaret, would react if she
> had
>> to do that.
>> 
>> But she's never had any such problem.  We've owned our Renault Zoe EV for 
>> over
>> 4 years and have never had to reboot anything.  It just works.  And so does
> its
>> radio.
>> 
>> I can't imagine that the Zoe is any less computerized than a Tesla.  I 
>> suspect
> that
>> the Zoe's firmware is just more thoroughly debugged.  Renault has a long
> history -
>> they're 136 years old - and a hard-earned reputation to protect.
>> 
>> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>> 
>> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my offlist
> address
>> here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>> 
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> 
>> It's the desire to be barbaric that makes governments call their
>> enemies barbarians.
>> 
>>-- Bertolt Brecht
>> 
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> 
>> ___
>> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
>> No other addresses in TO and CC fields
>> HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
>> www.avg.com
> 
> 
> 
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> 

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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla

[(-Phil-) via EV]

Yes, you don't HAVE to reboot it.  Same thing for your PC or phone, but all
modern software on complex systems with a large OS will have some amount of
memory leaks, so it's always a good idea to do an occasional reboot to
clear things up.  I've seen Tesla uptimes without reboots of over 2 years,
but they are usually running like molasses by then.

Comparing the level of compute in a Zoe to the amount in a recent Tesla is
like comparing the Apollo Guidance computer to a modern PC.  The
infotainment (main screen) in a Tesla is, in fact essentially a PC running
Linux.   The autopilot computer adds a level of compute several orders of
magnitude over that.

On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 4:10 PM Rush via EV  wrote:

> Now, now, EV list lackey, calm down... just because it is recommended, it
> doesn't mean that the sky will fall on your head if you don't do it.
>
> My first M3 was bought in 2019 (I just traded it in for the refresh model
> because the FSD would transfer, a good deal if you ask me) and in those
> almost 5
> years I've done a reboot maybe 3 times
>
> And I take issue with your blanket statement 'I can't imagine that the Zoe
> is
> any less computerized than a Tesla'. That, to me, just sounds like someone
> that's saying anything to put down Tesla's.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rush Dougherty
> www.TucsonEV.com
>
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: EV  On Behalf Of EV List Lackey via EV
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2024 3:41 PM
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
> > Cc: EV List Lackey 
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla
> >
> > On 17 Apr 2024 at 10:27, (-Phil-) via EV wrote:
> >
> > > It's normal to need to do the first simple 5 second reboot on Teslas
> > > every few weeks.  Doesn't hurt anything and can make a sluggish UI
> > > fast again.
> >
> > That's considered NORMAL?  Seriously?
> >
> > Insanity.  You can't expect drivers to reboot their cars "ever;y few
> weeks."
> >  I can just imagine how my low-tech other half, Margaret, would react if
> she
> had
> > to do that.
> >
> > But she's never had any such problem.  We've owned our Renault Zoe EV
> for over
> > 4 years and have never had to reboot anything.  It just works.  And so
> does
> its
> > radio.
> >
> > I can't imagine that the Zoe is any less computerized than a Tesla.  I
> suspect
> that
> > the Zoe's firmware is just more thoroughly debugged.  Renault has a long
> history -
> > they're 136 years old - and a hard-earned reputation to protect.
> >
> > David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
> >
> > To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my offlist
> address
> > here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
> >
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >
> >  It's the desire to be barbaric that makes governments call their
> >  enemies barbarians.
> >
> > -- Bertolt Brecht
> >
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >
> > ___
> > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
> > No other addresses in TO and CC fields
> > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
> > www.avg.com
>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla

[Rush via EV]

Now, now, EV list lackey, calm down... just because it is recommended, it
doesn't mean that the sky will fall on your head if you don't do it.

My first M3 was bought in 2019 (I just traded it in for the refresh model
because the FSD would transfer, a good deal if you ask me) and in those almost 5
years I've done a reboot maybe 3 times

And I take issue with your blanket statement 'I can't imagine that the Zoe is
any less computerized than a Tesla'. That, to me, just sounds like someone
that's saying anything to put down Tesla's.

Best regards,

Rush Dougherty
www.TucsonEV.com




> -Original Message-
> From: EV  On Behalf Of EV List Lackey via EV
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2024 3:41 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
> Cc: EV List Lackey 
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla
>
> On 17 Apr 2024 at 10:27, (-Phil-) via EV wrote:
>
> > It's normal to need to do the first simple 5 second reboot on Teslas
> > every few weeks.  Doesn't hurt anything and can make a sluggish UI
> > fast again.
>
> That's considered NORMAL?  Seriously?
>
> Insanity.  You can't expect drivers to reboot their cars "ever;y few weeks."
>  I can just imagine how my low-tech other half, Margaret, would react if she
had
> to do that.
>
> But she's never had any such problem.  We've owned our Renault Zoe EV for over
> 4 years and have never had to reboot anything.  It just works.  And so does
its
> radio.
>
> I can't imagine that the Zoe is any less computerized than a Tesla.  I suspect
that
> the Zoe's firmware is just more thoroughly debugged.  Renault has a long
history -
> they're 136 years old - and a hard-earned reputation to protect.
>
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my offlist
address
> here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>  It's the desire to be barbaric that makes governments call their
>  enemies barbarians.
>
> -- Bertolt Brecht
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
> ___
> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
> No other addresses in TO and CC fields
> HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
>
>
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
> www.avg.com



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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla

[EV List Lackey via EV]

On 17 Apr 2024 at 10:27, (-Phil-) via EV wrote:

> It's normal to need to do the first simple 5 second reboot on Teslas
> every few weeks.  Doesn't hurt anything and can make a sluggish UI fast
> again. 

That's considered NORMAL?  Seriously?  

Insanity.  You can't expect drivers to reboot their cars "ever;y few weeks." 
 I can just imagine how my low-tech other half, Margaret, would react if she 
had to do that.

But she's never had any such problem.  We've owned our Renault Zoe EV for 
over 4 years and have never had to reboot anything.  It just works.  And so 
does its radio.

I can't imagine that the Zoe is any less computerized than a Tesla.  I 
suspect that the Zoe's firmware is just more thoroughly debugged.  Renault 
has a long history - they're 136 years old - and a hard-earned reputation to 
protect.  

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

 It's the desire to be barbaric that makes governments call their 
 enemies barbarians.

-- Bertolt Brecht

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla

[Mark Hanson via EV]

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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla

[(-Phil-) via EV]

The tuner is made by Harman.   FM radio does not need AGC in the way you
describe, as long as the discriminator can lock the carrier it will always
decode at the same output level the transmitter modulated it at
originally.   Read up on the basics of FM radio.  If your output level is
varying, yet another indication you may have a defective tuner, or maybe a
bad connection to the glass antenna.

All Tesla service manuals are free, just create a free Tesla login at
tesla.com if you don't have one.
Tuner:
https://service.tesla.com/docs/ModelY/ServiceManual/en-us/GUID-CA1CFB3C-E27A-4060-A10E-C7CEA69A67B6.html

On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 2:48 PM Mark Hanson  wrote:

> Thanks Phil for the reboot info and FM radio options.  Another radio issue
> I have is lack of AGC automatic gain control (invented in 1928) apparently
> not in the Tesla FM radio as I’m periodically twiddling with the wandering
> volume.
> Say where do they hide the FM radio anyway?
> Best regards
> Mark
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 17, 2024, at 1:28 PM, (-Phil-)  wrote:
>
> 
> Yes, there are 3 types of reboot:  the approximate 5 seconds scroll wheel
> reboot, this can be done anytime, even while driving, even with Autopilot
> engaged.   Just hold until the screen goes black and release
>
> 2nd type "hard" (or Gateway reboot):  Press and hold brake, hold scroll
> wheels until you see the Tesla logo re-appear.
>
> Actual hard:  (for 3/Y only) Disconnect the negative terminal of the 12v
> battery (will need 10mm wrench) or disconnect the connector for 16v on
> newer cars, then lift the outer corner of the passenger side rear seat
> cushion, lift out the black styrofoam cube, and disconnect the grey
> rectangular connector there until you hear the contactors "clunk", then
> immediately reconnect.  To do this, you need to release the tilting bail
> with a tab, can be done with a fingernail, then the bail will tilt down to
> the right and the body of the connector will rise.  No need to keep going
> any farther once you hear the contactors clunk.  Wait 2 full minutes, then
> without bouncing slide the negative terminal quickly back onto the battery,
> hold it there, wait until you hear the contactors close (clunk CLACK), then
> re-tighten the 10mm.  (or just plug the 16v battery back in on newer)
>
> It's normal to need to do the first simple 5 second reboot on Teslas every
> few weeks.  Doesn't hurt anything and can make a sluggish UI fast again.
> The other 2 are rare, but try them in  order if you have an issue that the
> 1st one doesn't resolve, such as no LTE.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 10:12 AM Kevin Horton via EV 
> wrote:
>
>> If the Owner's Manual can be believed, the brake pedal is not required.
>> Have you tried that reboot without using the brake pedal?   I did that a
>> handful of times while driving in my early days of Tesla ownership.  I
>> haven't had to do it for two or more years.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> > On Apr 17, 2024, at 13:17, Mark Hanson via EV 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi folks
>> > My FM radio drops out occasionally (usually during an “radio moment” on
>> NPR) and requires pushing in my 2 balls with the brake peddle for reboot
>> which I can’t do while driving (2021 Tesla Y).
>> > Rather than dangling a transistor radio from the rear view mirror (like
>> I did in a 1964 Beetle many moons ago), has anyone wired in a FM stereo to
>> the existing speakers ?  The wire harness looks hard to work on, not like
>> the cars of yesteryear.  Maybe Velcro a Crane radio on the dash?  Last time
>> (today driving to DC) I got NPR streaming on my iPhone (but runs up my data
>> $$ on Ting). Seems like a $55k car should have a working radio even if
>> missing AM and a rear windshield wiper…
>> > Best regards
>> > Mark in Roanoke Va
>>
>>
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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla

[(-Phil-) via EV]

Yes, there are 3 types of reboot:  the approximate 5 seconds scroll wheel
reboot, this can be done anytime, even while driving, even with Autopilot
engaged.   Just hold until the screen goes black and release

2nd type "hard" (or Gateway reboot):  Press and hold brake, hold scroll
wheels until you see the Tesla logo re-appear.

Actual hard:  (for 3/Y only) Disconnect the negative terminal of the 12v
battery (will need 10mm wrench) or disconnect the connector for 16v on
newer cars, then lift the outer corner of the passenger side rear seat
cushion, lift out the black styrofoam cube, and disconnect the grey
rectangular connector there until you hear the contactors "clunk", then
immediately reconnect.  To do this, you need to release the tilting bail
with a tab, can be done with a fingernail, then the bail will tilt down to
the right and the body of the connector will rise.  No need to keep going
any farther once you hear the contactors clunk.  Wait 2 full minutes, then
without bouncing slide the negative terminal quickly back onto the battery,
hold it there, wait until you hear the contactors close (clunk CLACK), then
re-tighten the 10mm.  (or just plug the 16v battery back in on newer)

It's normal to need to do the first simple 5 second reboot on Teslas every
few weeks.  Doesn't hurt anything and can make a sluggish UI fast again.
The other 2 are rare, but try them in  order if you have an issue that the
1st one doesn't resolve, such as no LTE.



On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 10:12 AM Kevin Horton via EV 
wrote:

> If the Owner's Manual can be believed, the brake pedal is not required.
> Have you tried that reboot without using the brake pedal?   I did that a
> handful of times while driving in my early days of Tesla ownership.  I
> haven't had to do it for two or more years.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kevin
>
> > On Apr 17, 2024, at 13:17, Mark Hanson via EV  wrote:
> >
> > Hi folks
> > My FM radio drops out occasionally (usually during an “radio moment” on
> NPR) and requires pushing in my 2 balls with the brake peddle for reboot
> which I can’t do while driving (2021 Tesla Y).
> > Rather than dangling a transistor radio from the rear view mirror (like
> I did in a 1964 Beetle many moons ago), has anyone wired in a FM stereo to
> the existing speakers ?  The wire harness looks hard to work on, not like
> the cars of yesteryear.  Maybe Velcro a Crane radio on the dash?  Last time
> (today driving to DC) I got NPR streaming on my iPhone (but runs up my data
> $$ on Ting). Seems like a $55k car should have a working radio even if
> missing AM and a rear windshield wiper…
> > Best regards
> > Mark in Roanoke Va
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla

[Kevin Horton via EV]

If the Owner's Manual can be believed, the brake pedal is not required.  Have 
you tried that reboot without using the brake pedal?   I did that a handful of 
times while driving in my early days of Tesla ownership.  I haven't had to do 
it for two or more years.

Cheers,

Kevin

> On Apr 17, 2024, at 13:17, Mark Hanson via EV  wrote:
> 
> Hi folks
> My FM radio drops out occasionally (usually during an “radio moment” on NPR) 
> and requires pushing in my 2 balls with the brake peddle for reboot which I 
> can’t do while driving (2021 Tesla Y).
> Rather than dangling a transistor radio from the rear view mirror (like I did 
> in a 1964 Beetle many moons ago), has anyone wired in a FM stereo to the 
> existing speakers ?  The wire harness looks hard to work on, not like the 
> cars of yesteryear.  Maybe Velcro a Crane radio on the dash?  Last time 
> (today driving to DC) I got NPR streaming on my iPhone (but runs up my data 
> $$ on Ting). Seems like a $55k car should have a working radio even if 
> missing AM and a rear windshield wiper…
> Best regards
> Mark in Roanoke Va


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Re: [EVDL] Adding a FM radio to a Tesla

[(-Phil-) via EV]

There is no easy solution here.  Admittedly I almost always use streaming
audio on my Tesla rather than FM, but when I have used it, I didn't have
any issues.  You might have a defective radio tuner.  Worth replacing to
see if it fixes your issue.  Anything else you do will be sub-par.

Here's a used tuner module from Ebay for $64:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/256481738194

Though one simple thing comes to mind, but again, because it's inside the
car without an external antenna, reception may be sub-par:
https://amzn.to/3U5lUmq
This is a small portable radio with a rechargeable battery that has one
rare feature: It can transmit on Bluetooth.   So you would pair the radio
to the Tesla just like you would a phone, and then use its tuner to
transmit the FM to the car.  You'd also be able to power the radio from the
car's USB port to keep it powered.


On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 9:18 AM Mark Hanson via EV 
wrote:

> Hi folks
> My FM radio drops out occasionally (usually during an “radio moment” on
> NPR) and requires pushing in my 2 balls with the brake peddle for reboot
> which I can’t do while driving (2021 Tesla Y).
> Rather than dangling a transistor radio from the rear view mirror (like I
> did in a 1964 Beetle many moons ago), has anyone wired in a FM stereo to
> the existing speakers ?  The wire harness looks hard to work on, not like
> the cars of yesteryear.  Maybe Velcro a Crane radio on the dash?  Last time
> (today driving to DC) I got NPR streaming on my iPhone (but runs up my data
> $$ on Ting). Seems like a $55k car should have a working radio even if
> missing AM and a rear windshield wiper…
> Best regards
> Mark in Roanoke Va
> Sent from my iPhone
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