Re: From nominalism to Scientifc Materialism Re: Is Sheldrake credible ? Ipersonally think so.

2013-01-06 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Alberto G. Corona Sounds like fascism to me. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/6/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Alberto G. Corona Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-06

Re: Re: Is Sheldrake credible ? I personally think so.

2013-01-06 Thread Roger Clough
Hi meekerdb Materialists can't consistently accept inextended structures and functions such as quantum fields--or if they do, they aren't materialists. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/6/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Rec

Re: Re: "The best of all possible Worlds."

2013-01-06 Thread Roger Clough
Hi meekerdb I'm sorry that Christ does not measure up to your liberal standards. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/6/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: meekerdb Receiver: everyth

Life and death in a world of good and evil

2013-01-06 Thread Roger Clough
allow bad things to happen, like your getting cancer or there being a tsunamio. Roger Clough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from t

Subjective states can be somehow extracted from brains via a computer

2013-01-05 Thread Roger Clough
simultaneously objective and subjective. Thus an ordinary (by which I mean not conscious) computer can work on it objectively yet produce a subjective image by some manipulation of the flesh of the brain. One perhaps might call this "milking" of the brain. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@v

Re: Re: Is Sheldrake credible ? I personally think so.

2013-01-05 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Richard Ruquist Empirical data, to my way of thinking, trumps scientific dogma (such as materialism) any day. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/5/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - Fro

Re: Re: Is Sheldrake credible ? I personally think so.

2013-01-05 Thread Roger Clough
Hi meekerdb By quanta I meant quantum fields. These are merely mathematical fields of no substance. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/5/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: meekerdb Receiver:

Re: Re: "The best of all possible Worlds."

2013-01-05 Thread Roger Clough
ne is 2000 years old. --- Ludwig Krippahl, biologist" Those are baseless insults, typical of liberalspeak. If they have a basis,let's hear it. Otherwise you're just spouting baseless prejudices. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/5/2013 "Forever is a long time,

[no subject]

2013-01-05 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Telmo Menezes Thanks. But can such biomolecular structures develop into a living cell ? Sheldrake's morphisms all pertain to living entities. Monads do also, except that for Leibniz, the whole universe is alive. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/5/2013 "Forever is a

Re: Re: Is Sheldrake credible ? I personally think so.

2013-01-05 Thread Roger Clough
came a drug addict also, don't know what happened to him. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/5/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Platonist Guitar Cowboy Receiver: everything-list

A dialog on monads, the PEH, and possible alternatives

2013-01-05 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Stephen P. King ROGER: He had done away with two-substance cartesian dualism by considering both mind and body from a mental or logical aspect. STEVE: Yes, but at a price. I am, you could say, trying to make the price "reasonable". His PEH is, IMHO, too costly ontologically speaking

Re: Could morphisms be related to mirror neurons ?

2013-01-05 Thread Roger Clough
You might add universal quantum entanglement to the list below as a common feature of all. - [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/5/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - W

Could morphisms be related to mirror neurons ?

2013-01-05 Thread Roger Clough
processes) 4. Mirror neurons 5. Monkey see, monkey do. 6. Monadic perception. Universal reflections of the perceptions of all of the other monads in the universe, back to a given monad. a possible basis of habits. 7. Social relationships 8. Etc. etc. [Roger Clough], [rclo

Re: Science is a religion by itself.

2013-01-04 Thread Roger Clough
Hi socra...@bezeqint.net Spirit, like life, like God, like faith, like love, and like mind, is not extended in space Those objects you mention are extended in space. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/4/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - W

Re: Re: Is Sheldrake credible ? I personally think so.

2013-01-04 Thread Roger Clough
Hi meekerdb 1) Materialists don't have any dogmas. Just ask one of them. 2) quanta are not materials. 3) materialism cannot accept empty space, since it isn't a material. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/4/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end.

Re: Re: Rupert Sheldrake - The Morphogenetic Universe

2013-01-04 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Telmo Menezes All I can find on the web is that DNA only contains instructions to make various biomolecules such as proteins, RNA, etc. It only works on the molecular scale; the morphic fields are needed for larger macrostructrures. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/4/2013

Re: Re: Is Sheldrake credible ? I personally think so.

2013-01-04 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Stephen P. King L states that all substances are alive, that's how they can communicate. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/4/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Stephen P.

Re: Re: The evolution of good and evil

2013-01-04 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Bruno Marchal Religion cannot save you, it cannot even make you a better person. Only God can do that. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/4/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bru

Re: Re: Is Sheldrake credible ? I personally think so.

2013-01-04 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Richard Ruquist New Scientist has published work by Sheldrake. But we'll have to wait for the materialist trolls which decide what can be published die off. Materialism cannot be justified scientifically. That journal will be an obsolete curiosity. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizo

Re: Re: Re: Monads and Sheldrake

2013-01-04 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Richard Ruquist No, morphic fields are not God, they are the tools of God. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/4/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Richard Ruquist Receiver: everything-

Re: Re: On morphic telepathy

2013-01-04 Thread Roger Clough
STEPHAN: Is it necessary that monads are a "substance"? Could we think of them as pure process the product of which is the content of experience of the monad? Is this formulation antithetical to the definition that Leibniz gives monads? ROGER: Keep in mind that Leibniz formulated his ideas

Re: Re: Is Sheldrake credible ? I personally think so.

2013-01-04 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Stephen P. King very few scientists Sheldrake has done many successful experiments to empirically prove what he claims. The results are in his books. Some have been published in New Scientist. See http://www.sheldrake.org/Research/overview/ [Roger Clough], [rclo

Re: Re: Monads and Sheldrake

2013-01-04 Thread Roger Clough
Hi meekerdb If there is empirical evidence for the truth of those, I'll accept them. Sheldrake's work is totally empirical. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/4/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following

Re: Re: The evolution of good and evil

2013-01-04 Thread Roger Clough
s metaphnysics was a fairy tale. What you can infer from this is that he was an expert in logic, but logic is useless to understand anything. Not anything human anyway or spiritual. 5) So he naturally rejects Christianity as an illogical, political tract, which it is not intended

Re: Re: What Hell is like

2013-01-04 Thread Roger Clough
Hi meekerdb Presumably they have no remorse. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/4/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: meekerdb Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-03, 13:07:26 Subject

Re: Re: What Hell is like

2013-01-04 Thread Roger Clough
Hi meekerdb Personally, I find that Leibniz has given me the most satisfactory explanations for God's actions in this world in his theodicy. Also, his monadology can be used to develop your own logical solutions to just about anything. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/4

Re: Re: The evolution of good and evil

2013-01-04 Thread Roger Clough
Hi meekerdb That's so sad. I'm so sorry for your friend. My personal belief is that prayers are more effective when the cancer isn't so advanced, because you are fighting good against evil. Life against death. Lem needs tio read Leibniz's theodicy. [Roger Clough],

Re: Re: Is Sheldrake credible ? I personally think so.

2013-01-04 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Telmo Menezes Sheldrake, as you might surmise, is totally empirical, which is the irrefutable tactic to disprove materialism. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/4/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the followi

Re: Re: Rupert Sheldrake - The Morphogenetic Universe

2013-01-04 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Craig Weinberg You're welcom to your views, which seem socially based, but my views are no different than those of many modern physicists. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/4/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receivin

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The two basic theologies

2013-01-04 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Craig Weinberg Yes, there is no calculus for the quality of life. But we still have to make decisions about it. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/4/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - F

Re: Re: a Sheldrake computer:: the universe as a random + mechanism--->habit computer

2013-01-04 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Craig Weinberg Richard rejects the concept of inextended space. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/4/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013

Re: Re: Re: Why bad things happen to good people--Leibniz's Theodicy

2013-01-04 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Craig Weinberg According to my belief in orthodox Lutheranism (in contrast to Billy Graham), we cannot decide for Christ, He decides for us. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/4/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the followi

Re: Re: Re: What Hell is like

2013-01-04 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Craig Weinberg You're right, I was thinking as a jew might, but if orgot that jesus introduced the concept of thought crimes (intentions). [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/4/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the fo

Re: Re: Is Sheldrake credible ? I personally think so.

2013-01-04 Thread Roger Clough
alism can't explain consciousness because of its dogmas (everything must be physical). [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/4/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Recei

Re: Re: "The best of all possible Worlds."

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
Hi meekerb, Heaven is not part of contingent creation, so your statement that there is no heaven is illogical or irrelevant. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/4/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content --

Re: Re: The evolution of good and evil

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Stephen P. King The only miracle that the holy spirit can work with is life, for it, like God, is life, or represents life. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/4/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the followi

Re: Re: a Sheldrake computer:: the universe as a random + mechanism--->habit computer

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Stephen P. King Entanglement is a major part of Sheldrake's ideas, which also allow for fields within fields, you might be happy to know. The fields can be mental and social fields, And includes resonance between fields such as telepathy.. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/4

Re: Re: Is Sheldrake credible ? I personally think so.

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
that theory asserts that there is no such thing as space (and yet it works). M does not believe in fields, for they are anathema: immaterial, purely mathematical. So of course monads and morphisms are nonsense to a materialist. He lives in a fantasy world. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net

The self-taming of the universe

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
IMHO Sheldrake's morphic fields are organizing fields which result in the self-taming or organization of random fields. So they are anti-entropic or energy-forming. We see such taming in the formation of planets from swirling dust particles, in the formation of tornadoes, and in the precipit

On morphic telepathy

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
On morphic telepathy Note that Leibniz for good reasons (similar to Kant) did not consider time and space to be substances, so the monads all exist as a dust of points in an inextended domain (to use Descartes' concepts) which is by definition outside of spacetime (is in mental domain). Sp

A Summary of Peirce, Leibniz and Sheldrake on habits

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
speculation is perhaps quantum mechanics behavior gradually adapts to enstein behavior in such a way. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/3/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: chris kramer R

The monadology is an extended reference on morphic forms.

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
bject/philosophy/works/ge/leibniz.htm I am not a marxist. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/3/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List"

Rupert Sheldrake - The Morphogenetic Universe

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
upert Sheldrake's "The Morphogenetic Universe" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dm8-OpO9oQ [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/3/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group

Re: Re: Monads and Sheldrake

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Richard Ruquist They rule everything. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/3/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Richard Ruquist Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-03, 11:48:05 S

Re: Re: a Sheldrake computer:: the universe as a random + mechanism--->habit computer

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Richard Ruquist Sheldrake and leibniz would offer a more shocking picture, namely that strings, like all matter, are alive. But Gates is to be congratulated for excaping from the cult of materialism. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/3/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially

Monads and Sheldrake

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
universal memory. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/3/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Richard Ruquist Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-03, 10:47:59 Subject: Re: Is Sheldrake cr

Re: Re: Re: The evolution of good and evil

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Telmo Menezes I suffer from chronic depression, and so have the same problem, in which case I try to act according to principles. My main belief is that whoever comes to me is my neighbor. So I keep a few dollars in my wallet to give to beggars in the street. [Roger Clough], [rclo

a Sheldrake computer:: the universe as a random + mechanism---> habit computer

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
rphic resonances. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/3/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Richard Ruquist Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-02, 19:25:06 Subject: Re: Conputer

Re: Re: The evolution of good and evil

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
Hi meekerdb Although a brilliant logician, Russell was far left (no doubt a communist and so anti-christian). His diatribe against Christianity is a prime example. It's totally misinformed and mistaken. Ethics is, at bottom, loving your neighbor as your self. [Roger Clough],

Re: Re: "The best of all possible Worlds."

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
Hi meekerdb The world down here isn't heaven, yes, but there still is a Heaven for the afterlife, IMHO. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/3/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: meek

Re: Re: "The best of all possible Worlds."

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Stephen P. King I suppose that you're referring to the cpre-established perfect harmony, which makes it seem as if everything we do is determined (by God). IMHO that only means that God knows what we will do, not make the decision for us. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/3

Re: Re: "The best of all possible Worlds."

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
s." On 1/2/2013 8:21 AM, Roger Clough wrote: I forgot add that that's why Leibniz called this "The best of all possible Worlds." Why bad things happen to good people--Leibniz's Theodicy As to tornadoes, there are various views, usually part of "Theodicies&

Re: Re: Re: The evolution of good and evil

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Craig Weinberg Whatever the Bible says. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/3/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-03, 08:55:02 Subje

Re: Re: What Hell is like

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Craig Weinberg All of your quotes are very good advice. What's your point ? [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/3/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everyt

Re: Re: Re: Re: The evolution of good and evil

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Craig Weinberg Evil is not defined by law, but crime is. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/3/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-03

A simple explanation of Sheldrake's morphic resonance observations

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
radually adapts to einstein behavior in such a way. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/3/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. T

Re: Re: Why bad things happen to good people--Leibniz's Theodicy

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Craig Weinberg If you jump off of a building, gravity will kill you. Is that God's fault ? IMHO since God created nature, he also created the natural forces, which cause tsunamis. God is lawful, so He follows his own natural laws. Crap happens down here. We aren't yet in Heaven

What Hell is like

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
nd forgiveness. That would be Hell to a Jesus. He refers to being tossed out and undergoing a "weeping and gnashing of teeth". Hindus and Buddhists believe in reincarnation, which from what we observe, is not always a pleasant life. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/3/

Re: Re: The evolution of good and evil

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
evil to happen as well. "I cause the rain to fall on just as well as the unjust" says the Bible. Crap happens. At the same time, the Bible teaches us to appeal to God to "deliver us from evil." [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/3/2013 "Forever is a long time,

Re: Re: The evolution of good and evil

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
hurts the bad. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/3/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-02, 14:13:35 Subject: Re: The evolution of good and e

Re: Re: Re: The evolution of good and evil

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
. They are the mindless, heartless purveyors of cruelty and evil, evil as defined by laws. Jurors and judges under the legal system determine if you break laws or not, not whether your motivation was good or evil, although that could have some influence on the type of punishment. [Ro

Re: Re: Re: Re: The two basic theologies

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Craig Weinberg Enhancing Life is not a very arbitrary value, but of course interpreting what that means can differ from person to person. That's why we have laws, either religious or legal ones. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/3/2013 "Forever is a long time, especiall

Re: Re: The evolution of good and evil

2013-01-03 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Bruno Marchal IMHO Good is no more arbitrary than life is. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/3/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01

Re: Re: Re: The evolution of good and evil

2013-01-02 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Telmo Menezes Then we pretty much agree. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/2/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Telmo Menezes Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-02, 07:08:41 Subje

"The best of all possible Worlds."

2013-01-02 Thread Roger Clough
Leibniz's theodicy ior justification for God is that God, being good, does the best that he can with the imperfect, partly evuil world he has to work with. That is why pray for God to deliver us from evil in the Lord's prayer. But we also say "thy will be done." [Roger Cloug

Why bad things happen to good people--Leibniz's Theodicy

2013-01-02 Thread Roger Clough
th the imperfect, partly evuil world he has to work with. That is why pray for God to deliver us from evil in the Lord's prayer. But we also say "thy will be done." [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/2/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - W

Re: Re: The evolution of good and evil

2013-01-02 Thread Roger Clough
OGER: Good people tend to do good things, evil people to do evil things. Chemotherapy is thought to do more good than evil. [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net] 1/1/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen -- You received this message because you are subs

Re: Re: Re: The two basic theologies

2013-01-02 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Craig Weinberg So what's good for one may be evil for another. No surprise there. That's why an overriding referee or judge (God) is necessary. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/2/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen

Re: Re: The two basic theologies

2013-01-01 Thread Roger Clough
e they can cause death. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/1/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2013-01-01, 15:03:10 Subject: Re: The two bas

The evolution of good and evil

2013-01-01 Thread Roger Clough
, being goodness, and fear, which causes him to avoid enhancing or even diminishing life, being essentially evil. Those who believe in God believe that he has placed these two basic emotions in man so that we may fear and love God, to fear doing evil as well as to love him and do good. [Roger

The two basic theologies

2013-01-01 Thread Roger Clough
. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 1/1/2013 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@

Re: Re: A few definitions of the categories and two examples of theiruse(in perception)

2012-12-31 Thread Roger Clough
tions. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/31/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-12-31, 08:24:39 Subject: Re: A few definitions of the cat

Re: Re: Ten top-of-my-head arguments against multiverses

2012-12-31 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Bruno Marchal Yes, but those numbers are not extended in space, so they have no physical size. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/31/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal

How, as Leibniz (and the Bible) maintain, all causation actually comes from above

2012-12-31 Thread Roger Clough
tial mental state---> intelligent switching to desired state ---:> resultant mental state Thus, as Leibniz maintains, all causation actually comes mentally or spiritually from Platonia, not physically from down here below. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/31/2012 "

Re: Re: 1p, 3p and the black box of 2p

2012-12-31 Thread Roger Clough
jective) space as an apple-monad. I think he would then refer to thel 1p (obj) +2p (sub) as = 3p (obj but aware of 1p and 2p). [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/31/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content

Re: Re: A few definitions of the categories and two examples of their use(in perception)

2012-12-31 Thread Roger Clough
purposes is therefore never exact. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/31/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-12-30, 10:48:19 Subject:

Re: Re: Ten top-of-my-head arguments against multiverses

2012-12-31 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Bruno Marchal and Brian, "Bigness" can only limit physical entities (those extended in space), but is irrelevant with regard to nonphysical or mental entities, as these are not extended in space. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/31/2012 "Forever is a long t

A Systems Theory Approach to the Mind/Body Problem (ver. 1)

2012-12-30 Thread Roger Clough
form of T(t) The overall theory being: T(w) = F(w)+S(w) One might then define consciousness as S(w) = T(w)/F(w) ------ [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/30/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen

On John Dewey

2012-12-30 Thread Roger Clough
ing power" of his ideas still holds some fascination to me, I think he tended more to being a dictator than a modest seeker of truth, whatever that is. But there is much in his thought to yet consider. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/30/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the

Re: Re: Three things that one cannot prove or disprove

2012-12-30 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Jason Resch Yes, that I am reading this proves to me that I am conscious, but not to you, which is what I mean by "proof". [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/30/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following

The Black Box Consciousness Model [Objective Brain/Body->Subjective Mind/Mental->Objective Brain/Body].

2012-12-30 Thread Roger Clough
t; III=Thirdness (3p) = physical signal output to outside world through brain. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/30/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &quo

1p, 3p and the black box of 2p

2012-12-30 Thread Roger Clough
---> 3p = physical signal output to outside world through brain. 1p = physical input of outside world as part of the brain. 2p = "black box" mental signal processing of 1p 3p = physical output from 2p as through the brain to outside world. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.n

that the only way to fully understand something is to construct it.

2012-12-29 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Stephen P. King There was also a wise italian philosopher centuries ago who had a major premiss, namely, that the only way to fully understand something is to construct it. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/29/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end.&quo

Re: Re: Three things that one cannot prove or disprove

2012-12-29 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Stephen P. King Although I may have criticized you, I think you are very wise in your remarks about reason (Bruno Also). Thanks. Reasoning is probably more frequently conducted by analogy than we care to admit. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/29/2012 "Forever is a long

Re: Re: Three things that one cannot prove or disprove

2012-12-29 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Stathis Papaioannou You could do something like that. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/29/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Stathis Papaioannou Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012

Brain/brainmind/mind

2012-12-29 Thread Roger Clough
its implications [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/29/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-12-29, 07:20:07 Subject: Re: Escaping from th

Show me, don't tell me

2012-12-29 Thread Roger Clough
ad entire books where the author talks "about" a subject, but never gets to the meat of the subject. IMHO the only crucial rule of composition (or of writing a play or a poem or a letter or any essay) to me is "Show me, don't tell me". [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.n

A few definitions of the categories and two examples of their use (in perception)

2012-12-29 Thread Roger Clough
The classic example 3p= thirdness= is when I react to the pain 2p = secondness = is when I feel the pain 1p = firstness = is when somebody stick me with a pin (Quale) Also 3p is when I know and/or say that the coffee tastes bad (mind or reason) 2p is when I am tasting something funny ab

The categories once more

2012-12-29 Thread Roger Clough
The categories once more Firstness is emptiness, loneliness Secondness is joining an internet dating site looking for a girlfriend Thirdness is finally finding the right girlfriend [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/29/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end.&quo

Re: Re: Re: Escaping from the world of 3p Flatland

2012-12-29 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Russell Standish 2p is clearly needed for perception, as explained by Peirce. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/29/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Russell Standish Receiver: every

The use of 2p in perception

2012-12-29 Thread Roger Clough
elate, and interpretant. ) [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/29/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-12-28, 14:48:04 Subject: Re: On the tru

Re: Re: Three things that one cannot prove or disprove

2012-12-28 Thread Roger Clough
Hi meekerdb How do you know-- truly know-- that other people are like yourself ? What proof can you offer ? [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/28/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: meekerdb

Re: After the Singularity

2012-12-28 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Stephen P. King More power to them, my only hesitation being that so far nobody has been able to define what intelligence is. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/28/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content -

Re: Re: On the truth of comp -->Fw: 1p= pragmatic or experiential truth vs3p = truth by calculation

2012-12-28 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Bruno Marchal Thanks for the clarification, I was wrong about 3p. But according to Leibniz, 1p is always in God's eye, but our personal pov is never undistorted or perfectly clear, and operates down here, which is why I classified it as being contingent. [Roger Clough],

Re: Re: Three things that one cannot prove or disprove

2012-12-28 Thread Roger Clough
Hi meekerdb Can you suggest a scientific method to prove or disprove the solipsism puzzle ? [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/28/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: meekerdb Receiver: every

Can comp communicate with the brain directly ? Or theoreticaqlly ? Can it learn to do so ?

2012-12-28 Thread Roger Clough
cally communicate with the brain. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/28/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Stathis Papaioannou Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-12-27, 19:38:57 Subject: Re: Three

Re: Re: The Princeton EGG project

2012-12-28 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Russell Standish ditto. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/28/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Russell Standish Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-12-27, 17:44:49 Subject: Re: The

Re: Re: 1p= pragmatic or experiential truth vs 3p = truth by calculation

2012-12-27 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Bruno Marchal OK, and I suppose that if 1p always equals 3p, we have achieved sainthood or life after death. :-) [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/27/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - F

As pearls to the swine

2012-12-27 Thread Roger Clough
indicated above, II (spiritual meaning) is not available to logic. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/27/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything

Re: Re: Three things that one cannot prove or disprove

2012-12-27 Thread Roger Clough
Hi LK Personal Right. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/27/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: LK Personal Receiver: Roger Clough Time: 2012-12-27, 00:46:11 Subject: Re: Three things that

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