ms with 6.3, or not?
None of the bugs were in a state with the developer trying to identify
the system. We have several systems dedicated for FreeBSD developers
to use for test cases already, and we'd be happy to provide another if
one was necessary.
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orward. Going "bravely forward" to guaranteed failure isn't a great
way to enjoy your job :-( Which means I'll be doing our security
patches by hand. Because it may be time intensive, but it's less
likely to cause a production failure.
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On Jun 5, 2008, at 1:39 AM, Peter Jeremy wrote:
On 2008-Jun-04 22:22:33 -0700, Jo Rhett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
And please stop with the loaded language. I'm not asking anyone to
work
for me. I am suggesting that it is perhaps too early to EoL 6.2
because
6.3 isn't rea
n the bug list to
confirm these numbers for themselves.
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issues involved here?
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es using FreeBSD already
outsource this kind of support requirement to 3rd parties. There are
also FreeBSD hardware vendors who support FreeBSD as a platform.
If you want someone to take responsibility, make 'em an offer.
thanks,
BMS
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g a
discussion of the policy goals. I'm not saying that this isn't the
very best that FreeBSD can do -- maybe it is. I just couldn't find
any documentation of why dropping 6.2 makes a lot of sense, so I was
hoping to get a clear answer for that.
--
like what I quoted above.
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licy issue for dropping 6.2 in just barely more than a year..
On Jun 5, 2008, at 7:23 AM, John Baldwin wrote:
On Wednesday 04 June 2008 01:20:56 pm Jo Rhett wrote:
Okay, I totally understand that FreeBSD wants people to upgrade from
6.2 to 6.3. But given that 6.3 is still experiencing bugs wit
Kris, is this kind of repeated nastiness necessary?
Most everyone who has posted on this thread cares deeply about FreeBSD
and does what they can to support it. What do you hope to gain by
being nasty to them?
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ing as supporters of the project, however
well-intentioned they may believe themselves to be.
You seem quite willing to make enemies. I'm not your enemy, and we'd
both probably get a lot more work done if you stopped treating me like
one.
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single supported release with
significant known bugs in it.
It will take pretty much all the time I spend supporting FreeBSD os
and applications away to focus entirely on backporting security
patches back to 6.2. I know of several other organizations facing
the same problem.
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oided
that.
I would rather focus my efforts on something that produces more
effective results.
This is the reasoning behind my question: why drop 6.2 and 6.1 at the
same time? What is the real cost of supporting 6.2 until a new stable
version ships?
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#x27;t replace X piece of hardware. The
overall policy question gets lost.
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because it's a good project to say the
least. A few negative comments doesn't mean they think the whole
project is trash. Excluding the fact that we're all human and have
emotions / ego, you have to agree that such a hostile approach isn't
really the best thing.
ee 2 years
of support for 6.2-RELEASE.
6.2 was (and *is* AFAIK) the most stable release of FreeBSD since 4.11
and it came out the door with less than 12 months of support intended.
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and other
s kind of response going to help?
Chris, please accept my apology for having created this thread as it
seems to have become nothing more than an opportunity for people talk
nastily to others.
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Doug, would you possibly (without attacking me?) give some insight
into the issues here? This is what I was asking: what prevents
supporting 6.2 ? Where could I best apply some of my time to improve
the situation?
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earch than any single
one of the entries.
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To
educate me.
And please stop being nasty. I'd said much the same thing over the
last 5 days, but I haven't once uttered a word about you not reading
what has already been said repeatedly. Nor does that topic interest
me. I am curious about the policy issue involved here.
anything newer than 6.0R:
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr-summary.cgi?originator=Jo+Rhett
There are some resources to help you find already-submitted PRs to
reference if it will help. (The latter 2 are new, and are attempts
by the bugbusting team to flag 'well-known problem' and 'P
facility. GNN in particular lives in Japan these days so a colo visit
would take him a day or two...
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a single bug
won't improve the situation.
Anyway, I've said this a dozen times now so I won't be repeating it.
You are welcome to continue ignoring it.
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in the appropriate hardware-specific list instead of the general -
stable mailing list)
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;stable" for
production needs.
Obviously the FreeBSD team(s) involved have to make choices. Perhaps
there's nothing we can do to improve it other than work on the
specific bugs. But does it hurt to ask why 6.2 was dropped so fast?
What the real cost of supporting 6.2 until 6.4
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>
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Jo Rhett wrote:
However keep in mind that Highpoint support is nearly clueless. When
the 1820a first shipped we were unable to find anyone on staff that
knew what FreeBSD was, or how to read a problem report.
No experience with Areca. 3ware is very clueful and capable.
On Sep 7, 2006, at 2
> Jo Rhett wrote:
> >FYI, several people have claimed that the 1820a is "hardware" -- this
> >is untrue. It's hardware accelerated, but all of the raid logic is
> >in the driver. It's sludgeware", not hardware raid. Performance
> >tests agains
n't
edit
d: 67108864 83886084.2BSD 2048 16384 28552
e: 188743680 754974724.2BSD 2048 16384 28552
f: 321826050 2642411524.2BSD 2048 16384 28552
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gaming computers that I wipe/rebuild on a regular basis.
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bout PC BIOS and MBR, and not reading
GPT format. The question is -- how do I make them coexist?
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To u
Dimitry Andric wrote:
Jo Rhett wrote:
Sysinstall recognized the drive properly and everything looked dandy
during install. However, it turns out that fdisk and bsdlabel both just
chopped off the last partition at 248GB. (why 248gb and not 2tb?)
Wrapping around 2 TiB, probably.
Got any
e 2TB boundary...
Sorry for the rookie questions, but I've done dozens of searches and
there's lots of discussion of the issues but no real obvious solutions.
On Jan 11, 2007, at 1:04 AM, Jo Rhett wrote:
So I have a raid array of 2.4TB. And yes, I really need 2.4TB, and
no ther
4.3T 26G4.3T 1%/mnt/mnt2
Sorry for the rookie questions, but I've done dozens of searches and
there's lots of discussion of the issues but no real obvious
solutions.
On Jan 11, 2007, at 1:04 AM, Jo Rhett wrote:
So I have a raid array of 2.4TB. And yes, I reall
On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 13:56:43 -0800 Jo Rhett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Thanks for the reply. The problem is that I have a single 6-drive
(550gb/ea) RAID-5 array. If I split two disks off to make a RAID-1
boot device, I'll lose 1TB of usable storage.
On Jan 11, 2007, at 3:55
vary.
On Jan 11, 2007, at 8:02 PM, Charles Sprickman wrote:
I can confirm 3Ware controllers also work that way.
Please enlighten me. I see no such options in the BIOS menu.
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e 0: single 2TB slice
drive 1: 264GB, with root, swap, etc
How do I tell boot2 to find the loader on disk1?
1:da(1,a)
1:da(1,1,a)
1:da(0,1,a)
1:da(0,a)
0:da(1,a)
0:da(0,a)
...etc none of them work.
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On Jan 11, 2007, at 8:50 PM, Jo Rhett wrote:
So I've been searching for hours now, and it appears that short of
reading the C code, there's no documentation of the boot2 menu prompt.
I'd like to add to this that the handbook is riddled full of
undocumented terms, like BIOS D
exist yet.
So... array volume management that comes into play after booting is
irrelevant to my needs :-(
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features
that the very best of modern raid are all lacking. Like 3ware, which
apparently doesn't protect the partition information. My ancient DPT
and Megaraid controllers all did that. Sad how far backwards the
technology has gone.
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Silic
On Jan 11, 2007, at 10:00 PM, Charles Sprickman wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, Jo Rhett wrote:
Not any one that I've ever seen in commodity disks. Yes, on
big fiber channel disk cabinets. No to 6-8 drive raid
controllers.
I'd be very surprised if you can't. You can certain
printed ones.
That option doesn't exist in the 9000-series controllers. I wish it
did :-(
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on.
Do you see the "boot unit" option when use use ALT-3 to enter the
3ware configuration BIOS?
Yes. That's where I enabled Auto Carving at 2TB :-)
But that option doesn't exist in the 9000-series controllers :-( If
it existed in the 6000, they must have taken it out
Jan Mikkelsen wrote:
Jo Rhett wrote:
But that option doesn't exist in the 9000-series controllers :-( If
it existed in the 6000, they must have taken it out and then added it
back later.
Sorry, I was unclear. The option doesn't exist in the 6000 series
controllers, but rather
Marcel Moolenaar wrote:
On Jan 11, 2007, at 1:56 PM, Jo Rhett wrote:
Since we're going to be stuck with old BIOSes for a long time after
2TB is a cheap disk drive at [store], is anyone considering doing the
work to make GPT co-exist with an MBR block?
It is already possible for th
Suleiman Souhlal wrote:
Jo Rhett wrote:
So I've been searching for hours now, and it appears that short of
reading the C code, there's no documentation of the boot2 menu
prompt.
Sure, it says drive:driver(unit,slice,part)
But no combination of those three that I can find actu
sure your SCSI BIOS is
registering your second disk with the BIOS. Assuming it's mapped as
drive 81, you can then use '1:da(1,a)'. If it shows up as drive 82, then
use 2:da(1,a)', etc.
How does one do so?
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senior
right. And we have 9.3.0.4 already, and I didn't see it.
I'll look again.
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Jason Thomson wrote:
Jo, if you manage to do this, could you possibly post a step-by-step
guide?
Absolutely. After trying to find this info, if I get it to work then
I'll make sure nobody else has to go through this.
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Václav Haisman wrote:
What does lsdev or whatever it was say? Does it show any devices besides
the raw disks?
So I booted from CD and ran lsdev, and showed something like this (from
memory)
0: Drive A
2: Disk 0
1: FFS
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mentioned before, lsdev only showed me a single drive.
On Jan 12, 2007, at 9:16 AM, John Baldwin wrote:
On Friday 12 January 2007 10:56, Jo Rhett wrote:
John Baldwin wrote:
A BIOS driver number is the number you pass to the BIOS to access
a drive.
Typically drive 0x0 is a floppy drive and hard dr
(fdisk, newfs, etc)
and setup the larger unit with GPT.
That's how I set up the RAID. If there is an option to specify
smaller volumes that isn't the auto carving option, then it is very
well hidden. There's really only one page it could be on, and it
isn't there.
--
On Jan 11, 2007, at 11:26 PM, Freddie Cash wrote:
This feature is only available on 9550SX and 9590SE controllers,
and can
only be specified in 3BM.
Bing! Well, that confirms that I'm not blind :-)
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he BIOS to talk to drives. End of story.
Okay, that's what I suspected. So booting from CD and using "lsdev"
at the loader prompt really is the best/only way to confirm what the
BIOS provides?
And thanks for taking the time to answer all of this, I deeply
appreciate it.
e to dictate your hardware :-)
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On Jan 12, 2007, at 1:04 AM, Jo Rhett wrote:
To make this into a step-by-step, what do you mean by "restore the MBR
partition" ? From backup, or...?
Marcel Moolenaar wrote:
Manually recreate, I guess. When creating a GPT, the MBR is replaced
by a PMBR. A PMBR is a MBR with a single
eed any help with the SCSI BIOS. The question
was only how to determine what devices are visible to FreeBSD.
Apparently 3ware only shows a single LUN to the BIOS, even when it
shows multiple LUNs to the booted system.
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http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=bin/88486
This patch was supplied 2 years ago now. It doesn't change current/
expected behavior but does allow those of us with many, many systems
to not get useless e-mail.
It's not even my patch! I would simply like to see this done
.
And more than likely, you just delete the messages every morning
without reading them anyway -- which is worse.
So the net effect of this change is zero, except that you can disable
getting useless messages and thus if you do get e-mail you know that
a problem has been happened and y
ad* if I don't
have to delete thousands of non-errors.
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y consideration with this patch is that it
allows either model to work. You can do it your way, and we can do
it our way.
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ch is making logical arguments...
Yes, I agree in theory. If you have scripts that output a lot of
data every time and you need to look for anomolies, then a mailfilter/
pipe approach makes a lot of sense. But that doesn't mean that this
patch is a bad idea.
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r stick out very well when the former never arrive ;-)
Obviously you are welcome to create such a patch for yourself.
However for my needs this patch would be good.
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patch.
I've been using this patch for 2 years now. Or, this patch for a
year and a not-as-good patch I made a year before that. We push out
the revised periodic script using cfengine. But I hate overwriting
OS files, and I believe that most people want this behavior.
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s
CALL gettimeofday(0xbfbfe750,0)
82833 rrdtool RET gettimeofday 0
82833 rrdtool CALL lseek(0x3,0,0,0,0x1)
82833 rrdtool RET lseek 4096/0x1000
82833 rrdtool CALL lseek(0x3,0,0,0,0x2)
82833 rrdtool RET lseek 2661128/0x289b08
82833 rrdtool CALL lseek(0x3,0,0xf08,0,0)
82833 rrdtool RET lseek 3848/0xf08
to convince you,
they're going to have to disable AXFR and break a lot of things all over
the world to get this stupidity stopped.
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I found the problem here. At some point in the past a rowless-RRA was
added to the files handled by this one process. I have no idea why it
only showed up after the reboot, but it's unrelated to FreeBSD anyway.
On Wed, Aug 01, 2007 at 01:06:08PM -0700, Jo Rhett wrote:
> Last nig
best.
A better question is what kind of beer/wine/cracker do we need to
feed you so that your ears will open up and you'll start hearing the
answers.
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verything said to you so far. I guess I'm just praying that
perhaps, just maybe, this time you'll start paying attention.
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he shouldn't have done it that way. He just keeps coming back
and saying "now lets talk about this some more..."
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installed these ports
and experienced the exact same problem.
That's why I am here. Physical or localized issues have already been
ruled out.
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t to talk about upgrading to intermediate patch releases,
> you've
> got a valid point there. :-)
That is exactly the point. Both .01 and .1 releases are annoying.
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hown willingness
to work with such an effort. Without that, we'd be patching the update
mechanism with every new release, which kind of defeats the point.
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;s why we need core team support.
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o can sustain some downtime for
upgrade failures.
And they are all completely un-auditable.
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or local staff
...many don't have local disks at all (flash-based systems)
"Install new OS from ISO" is completely impractical in all of these
environments. "Install from source" is impossible in most.
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_
the efforts, which makes
os-upgrade capability minimal and easily broken. (see current efforts)
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sy to apply. You can
build it on a central server and synchronize it outwards to the others.
The existing binary update mechanisms can handle this situation fairly
well.
But more "core OS" upgrades means less of these patches and more
requirement for a full binary upgrade. W
are practically mandatory on production systems
2. modified sources are foobar
..yet many common production situations require source compilation options
3. FreeBSD Update can't handle updates of jails and other situations that
package systems deal with just fine.
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s
hanism) and the arguements have often been given.
And many people _ARE_ already trying to handle binary updates without core
OS support. We are all struggling with the same limitations. Talk to the
security officer about this if you don't believe me.
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has always
refused to support or acknowledge these efforts.
For binary upgrades without booting from CD-ROM to be possible, we need
versioning of some sort at the OS level. Core OS packages are the most
popular suggestion, but not the only path. Every year this topic comes up
and gets struck down
On Fri, Dec 23, 2005 at 01:13:20PM -0600, Mark Linimon wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 22, 2005 at 01:10:19PM -0800, Jo Rhett wrote:
> > I and many others have offered to work on this. The core team has
> > repeatedly stated that they won't integrate the efforts
>
> Please prov
o back out the change".
This is pretty much the only things that prevent freebsd-update from
working perfectly in production environments, to name the most obvious
candidate for adapting to this job.
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re out how to do it), and I've never booted or
> installed off one. For small groups of servers, I NFS mount
> installworlds, and for larger groups, I rdist out binaries. But it
> always comes from source.
You can't do source installations on flash-based systems.
You can't
> On Thu, Dec 22, 2005 at 01:09:04PM -0800 I heard the voice of
> Jo Rhett, and lo! it spake thus:
> >
> > No, you're missing the point. More core OS upgrades means less
> > incremental patches (which are easier to apply than a full update).
On Thu, Dec 22, 2005 a
guing my own points. Again, nobody (that I know) cares that it
manifests as core OS packages. Certainly the existing package system used
for ports wouldn't work as-is for this task.
But the have/did/undo problems remain to be solved.
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nstallworld (which
> would be awful awful slow, above and beyond security and convenience
> issues).
This works fine for small patches (ie cvs patch last year). How do you
handle configuration changes/comparisons? (ie mergemaster stuff?)
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> On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 07:47, Jo Rhett wrote:
> > But FreeBSD Update suffers from all of the same limitations that I've been
> > describing because of lack of integration with the Core OS.
> >
> > 1. modified kernels are foobar
> > ..yet are practically man
> On Thu, 2005-Dec-22 13:17:30 -0800, Jo Rhett wrote:
> >But FreeBSD Update suffers from all of the same limitations that I've been
> >describing because of lack of integration with the Core OS.
> >
> >1. modified kernels are foobar
> > ..yet are pract
you will have a lot of cruft lying
> on your filesystem that once was part of the "core" and now
> isn't. And there is no simple and automated way to find out
> what to delete ...
That's another good point for having file revisions. We don
On Thu, Jan 05, 2006 at 09:11:58PM +1030, Daniel O'Connor wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 20:02, Jo Rhett wrote:
> > On Fri, Dec 23, 2005 at 11:26:44AM +1030, Daniel O'Connor wrote:
> > > How do you expect these two to be handled in a binary upgrade?
> > > I can&#
led options, custom
kernels, and other situations. That's what I'm trying to tackle here.
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build our own
> >patch tracking mechanism, and then re-write it for every new release.
> On Thu, 2006-Jan-05 01:37:27 -0800, Jo Rhett wrote:
> If you're willing to do your own compiles:
> 1) CVSup or cvs update to whatever branch you want
> 2) make build{world,kernel}
> 3
aving some sort of
consensus that (a) the project has interest and (b) what flavors would be
acceptable to the existing groups - are both necessary for this project to
even mumble it's first line of code.
--
Jo Rhett
senior geek
SVcolo : Silicon Valley Colocation
ons would be acceptable to them. Once we have
a direction to go in, code can be written.
> If you supply a working framework then I think you'll find a lot of support
> materialises. The problem is when you are just proposing vapourware solutions
omething
well. FreeBSD _only_ advances when the core developers agree that this
thing is worthy of their interest.
And I'm not even saying this is a bad thing. It just means that writing
code without buy-in from the core developers is GUARANTEED to be a waste of
time.
-
27;s.
> On Fri, 2006-Jan-06 02:34:40 -0800, Jo Rhett wrote:
> >You're tickling a different subject here. All three of these operating
> >systems have loadable kernel modules that work.
On Sat, Jan 07, 2006 at 07:31:20AM +1100, Peter Jeremy wrote:
> As does FreeBSD.
No.
ity focus, given the escalation of
releases.
You're saying "If you want to go to war in Iraq then hire a military" and
I'm saying "I was just trying to see if there was agreement that Saddam
is a bad guy" and more specifically "I have no desire
oint is that doing it without any chance of integration means
going the VERY long way around, which won't help the core installation.
Colin could tear out a great deal of his code if the core installation
documented versions and checksums at time of installation. Even more code
if there was a lo
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