At 06:46 30/04/2006, you wrote:
Bjarne, you've been given many good suggestions. The first 17th Century
program I ever saw was one of the earliest Masterpiece Theater (BBC)
productions. It was The First Churchills. This was before I had interest
in costuming, so I don't know if the costumes are
- Original Message -
Have you seen it in person?
I seriously doubt that seeing it in person would change my opinion about it.
It would give me a better view of LdV's technical skill with a paint brush,
but not much--there are some very detailed photos out there, and I don't
have to
Hi Fran,
Much obliged, that i will do.
Manny thanks
Bjarne
- Original Message -
From: Lavolta Press [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical films/ plays tv drama
The Broadway Theatre Archive
,
besides they were much more bright and positive. Rembrandt is two dark and
serious to my taste...
Bjarne
- Original Message -
From: E House [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 3:48 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical Films
In a message dated 4/25/2006 11:45:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
My Sister-in-law had seen her on previous visits and said she was more
fascinated with the large painting at the other end of the room with
all it's details.
Don't leave us hanging--what
Sorry- I don't know the name.
It is huge- 8 feet by 10 feet, maybe ? and shows a feast with many
people at the table. There are hounds under the table. The tablecloth
is a tapestry type with many details. The background shows people on
balconies and other details beyond the feast scene. We
Quoting Susan Data-Samtak [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Sorry- I don't know the name.
It is huge- 8 feet by 10 feet, maybe ? and shows a feast with many
people at the table. There are hounds under the table. The
tablecloth is a tapestry type with many details. The background shows
people on
Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
In a message dated 4/26/2006 11:07:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Ya gotta love the Internet. I believe that it's Veronese's Wedding at
Cana.
***
Well, it's certainly more populated than the Mona Lisa. If only
In a message dated 4/26/2006 11:07:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
http://www.wga.hu/art/v/veronese/religio1/cana.jpg
Now THAT'S a wedding!
Ann Wass
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Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical Films Mona Lisa
In a message dated 4/26/2006 11:07:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Ya gotta love the Internet. I believe that it's Veronese's Wedding at
Cana.
***
Well, it's certainly more populated than
Quoting Susan Data-Samtak [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
THANKS!
Amazing what one can find, if you know where and how to look, isn't it?!
and if you go here
http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/v/veronese/religio1/
there are about a half-dozen detail shots from the painting
Susan
-
Susan Farmer
You folks are a wealth of knowledge and best of all-you share!
Thanks.
Susan
My treasures do not clink together or glitter, they gleam in the sun
and neigh in the night.
Bedouin proverb
On Apr 26, 2006, at 11:41 AM, Susan B. Farmer wrote:
Quoting Susan Data-Samtak [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
At 03:45 PM 4/25/2006, you wrote:
There are a number of reasons for Magdalen's supposed link to prostitution
(which, interestingly, does not exist in the Eastern Orthodox Christian
church's view of Magdalen, who is highly revered). But yes, there are
similarities in the stories, and apparently
I wrote:
There are a number of reasons for Magdalen's supposed link to prostitution
(which, interestingly, does not exist in the Eastern Orthodox Christian
church's view of Magdalen, who is highly revered). But yes, there are
similarities in the stories, and apparently some
Robin wrote,
(Sample question: How can I be sure that such-and-so-image of the
Madonna and Child isn't really Mary Magdalen and her baby by Jesus?)
Sample answer - what difference does it make when you're discussing
the clothing? I'm guessing your lecture is to help sort out the real
very well done!
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 7:45 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical Films: fact vs. fiction
In a message dated 4/24/2006 7:52:39 A.M. Eastern
On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
(Sample question: How can I be sure that such-and-so-image of the
Madonna and Child isn't really Mary Magdalen and her baby by Jesus?)
Sample answer - what difference does it make when you're
discussing the clothing? I'm guessing your
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 2:19 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical Films
Robin wrote,
(Sample question: How can I be sure that such-and-so-image of the
Madonna and Child isn't really Mary
In a message dated 4/25/2006 4:21:11 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
And working in the other direction, often the clothing is part of our clue
to identification.
This relates to theatre. Since Greek theatre [and no doubt before] the
costume
In a message dated 4/25/2006 8:55:34 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
This relates to theatre. Since Greek theatre [and no doubt before] the
costume is a symbol.
And, I believe also in various forms of Japanese theater, yes?
Ann Wass
In a message dated 4/25/2006 9:28:23 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
And, I believe also in various forms of Japanese theater, yes?
**
Most definitely! And Indian and Tai, Bali, Indonesiaetc...etc...
Notice how all these, and the Greek
Kate Bunting
Librarian and 17th century reenactor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 25/04/2006 13:48 wrote
... or the sad love lorn character [Poirot]...
I think you mean Pierrot - Poirot is Agatha Christie's Belgian detective!
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In a message dated 4/25/2006 9:48:34 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I think you mean Pierrot - Poirot is Agatha Christie's Belgian detective!
*
Oops.and HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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h-costume mailing
And working in the other direction, often the clothing is part of our clue
to identification. This is a large part of that lecture. So part of my
answer to someone who wants to try to read an image of Mary as being
Magdalen has to do with how we use the clothing symbols to make the
Robin wrote:
I rather wish that Dan Brown had picked a saint who wasn't quite so
central to costume study. Say, Mary of Egypt.
snerk
snicker
I can just see it now.
0 Chris Laning
| [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+ Davis, California
On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[Robin wrote]
I rather wish that Dan Brown had picked a saint who wasn't quite so
central to costume study. Say, Mary of Egypt.
Except Dan Brown didn't make the choice.
Um, *that* was a throwaway line, and meant to amuse. This is Mary of
Um, *that* was a throwaway line, and meant to amuse. This is Mary of
Egypt:
http://www.wga.hu/html/m/memling/3mature1/17rein4.html
(right side)
See, no implications for costume study there.
Interesting - Mary Magdalene also has the association of being a
penitent wandering in the
On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Interesting - Mary Magdalene also has the association of being a
penitent wandering in the desert for many years, and long hair is one
of her identifiers! There was a lot of confusion between the Marys,
so I guess Mary of Egypt is where the
In a message dated 4/25/2006 3:07:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
becomes evident in the art as well, when you look at paintings of
Magdalen in her wilderness-hermit phase.
Doncha love those George De la Tour paintings??? So beautiful.
- Original Message -
From: Lavolta Press [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical Films
**
Hopefully, every once in a while, there's some ART!
The line between entertainment
Hi,
Now this topic is up, does any of you know of any good tv plays to buy on
tape or dvd? I remember back some years where i have seen quite many
interresting plays or tv dramas from the end of 17th century. I believe it
was real old plays from 17th century. There is one special i remember
And some of us still see it as entertainment--I found The Pickwick
Papers to be one of the funniest books I ever read, and Sam Weller is
quite possibly my favorite book character of all time. There are parts
of that book that made me positively roar with laughter, and others that
made me
In a message dated 4/25/2006 5:24:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Sometimes, the entertainment of previous days survives as entertainment as
well as art, just because it's GOOD.
*
Why is it assumed that art is not entertaining? Weird.
The Broadway Theatre Archive has DVDs of stage plays--from a variety of
theaters--from an old TV series. That, they say, is why the images tend
to be rather fuzzy. The quality of the performances is all over the
map. There is a very good Tartuffe, an awful School for Scandal, a
good The
In a message dated 4/25/2006 7:04:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The Broadway Theatre Archive
**
Yeswell worth checking out...even the bad productions. I remember when
School for Scandal aired. I was in college then and all my design teachers
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical Films
In a message dated 4/25/2006 5:24:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Sometimes, the entertainment of previous days
- Original Message -
From: Lavolta Press [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Absolutely. But some stuff gets canonized that probably never was very
good, either because it's early, or because it's art.
Along these lines, I have something to get off my chest:
I don't think the Mona Lisa is really all
snip
Along these lines, I have something to get off my chest:
I don't think the Mona Lisa is really all that great a painting!
Whew. There. I feel much better now.
-E House
(Also, eyebrowlessness is a huge pet peeve of mine.)
Well I believe Leonardo da Vinci would agree with you, he never was
In a message dated 4/25/2006 8:33:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I know that Picasso is considered fine art. I still don't like
it. It simply doesn't appeal to me.
What a strange statement, since he paints in many different styles during
I don't think the Mona Lisa is really all that great a painting!
***
Have you seen it in person?
I have, and I didn't think it was worth fighting the crush of people
standing around it. Also it was so dark as to make it hard to see. The time
spent working my way towards the
I saw the Mona Lisa this past summer. The crowds were very distracting
to being able to see her and appreciate her.
My Sister-in-law had seen her on previous visits and said she was more
fascinated with the large painting at the other end of the room with
all it's details. No one was
I feel that way about Van Gogh.
Fran
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 4/25/2006 8:33:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I know that Picasso is considered fine art. I still don't like
it. It simply doesn't appeal to me.
In a message dated 4/25/2006 11:22:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I have, and I didn't think it was worth fighting the crush of people
standing around it. Also it was so dark as to make it hard to see. The time
spent working my way towards the painting and
In a message dated 4/26/2006 12:14:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I feel that way about Van Gogh.
Fran
**
Fran! Oh no! Too bad! Oh well.
I saw the exhibit in DC a while back. The colors were amazing. Those
paintings of lavender irises in mint
I don't even want to think about what church historians and Renaissance
historians are going to go through when the Da Vinci Code movie comes out.
There are going to be an awful lot of people who will think it's entirely
factual.
Susan
That is already the case. I live work in/near
I think most modern people have both a healthy skeptism about advertising,
and an awareness that fiction (including films) is not reality.
I would have to disagree with you on the 'most modern people' part of your
statement. I think that history nerds, of which I am a proud member ;-),
are
But ice floats!
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of kelly grant
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 3:12 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: [h-cost] Historical Films: fact vs. fiction
I think most modern people have both a healthy skeptism about
At least they had some imagination in not calling this The Thing III!
Kathleen
- Original Message -
From: kelly grant [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 6:11 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Historical Films: fact vs. fiction
I think most
Lavolta Press wrote:
So what? There are a great many fields which you and I know little
about, which are no more or less important than history, and which we
probably have many misconceptions about.
And if you're going to teach you need to be able to deal with people not
knowing
Same trailer, but not the same site...thank Christ! it's a fake...
Kelly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD4OnHCRd_4
You mean the fake trailer? These are clips from previous movies (I
definitely spotted a Romeo and Juliet shot) and mention of the warm
liquid
goo phase comes from the first
cuts and pastes parts to form an idea... could it be true... probably not.
But a good work of fiction putting all those together like that.
- Original Message -
From: michaela [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 7:46 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost
Sharon Krossa wrote:
snipped for convenience
-- that is, instead of screaming If you use this movie as a source of
historical information, you're a fool, they whisper seductively Honest,
really, we're not making this up -- believe us.
Because the problem isn't that films are inaccurate --
In a message dated 4/24/2006 6:12:59 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Why else would Hollywood have the balls to make the new Titanic movie that
is comming out this summer...the one where they find Jack Dawson's body
frozen in a block of ice at the bottom of the
In a message dated 4/24/2006 7:01:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
But ice floats!
*
Yeahbut Jack's so full of crap, he sinks.
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kelly grant wrote:
I think most modern people have both a healthy skeptism about
advertising, and an awareness that fiction (including films) is not
reality.
I would have to disagree with you on the 'most modern people' part of
your statement. I think that history nerds, of which I am a
- Original Message -
From: Susan Carroll-Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I don't even want to think about what church historians and Renaissance
historians are going to go through when the Da Vinci Code movie comes out.
There are going to be an awful lot of people who will think it's entirely
Sorry, I meant you _don't_ have to be a history nerd to be skeptical of
advertising. Or even a science nerd.
Fran
Lavolta Press wrote:
kelly grant wrote:
I think most modern people have both a healthy skeptism about
advertising, and an awareness that fiction (including films) is not
At 7:55 PM -0700 4/23/06, Lavolta Press wrote:
I don't even want to think about what church historians and
Renaissance historians are going to go through when the Da Vinci
Code movie comes out. There are going to be an awful lot of people
who will think it's entirely factual.
So what? There
Lavolta Press wrote:
I assume you do have the routine of giving the lecture and then allowing
X fixed minutes at the end for questions, encouraging any really
detailed ones to be postponed to conversation with you during one of
your standard office hours?
They're encouraged to ask
Britannicus
From: Lavolta Press [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical Films: fact vs. fiction
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 10:21:09 -0700
Sorry, I meant you _don't_ have to be a history nerd to be skeptical
In a message dated 4/24/2006 7:43:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
But I also don't think cultural survival is purely a Darwinian matter
of survival of the fittest.
Depends on that constitutes fittest but I get your point. Things
At 5:53 AM -0400 4/22/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 4/22/06 6:05:50 AM GMT Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
No, the other Mel Gibson Scottish film.
ah - but william wallace took York, you know;-)
[For those who don't know -- and there is no reason why most of
At 12:12 PM -0400 4/23/06, Carol Kocian wrote:
Braveheart
SharonC., who says Macbeth backstage too, and doesn't spit, turn around,
go out and come back in, etc.
I quite happily say Macbeth, and I don't really care if anyone else
says in my presence the name of That Film Whose Name Shall Not
Greetings--
Sharon L. Krossa wrote:
Which, again, is why I prefer films such as A Knight's Tale and
Shakespeare in Love, which include enough truly obvious anachronisms
(such as modern rock music, psychiatrist jokes, modern coffee mugs,
etc.), and attitude, to essentially scream out If you
Because the problem isn't that films are inaccurate -- the problem is
when audiences believe what they see in films.
On the other hand, the benefit is that films, novels, and other forms of
fiction have gotten many people interested in historical subjects who
might well not have given them
At 3:34 PM -0700 4/23/06, Lavolta Press wrote:
Because the problem isn't that films are inaccurate -- the problem
is when audiences believe what they see in films.
On the other hand, the benefit is that films, novels, and other
forms of fiction have gotten many people interested in historical
I had never before heard about TFWNSNBU, so didn't know if it was
superstition or a critique. :-)
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Sharon L. Krossa
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 2:20 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: [h-cost] Historical
The problem, as I said, is when audiences believe what they see in
films. The solution to that is to try to get more people to understand
the nature of films -- such as that they are inevitably inaccurate --
and thus the appropriate and inappropriate uses of films, and to stop
using them
snip
One of the best examples of this is perhaps the best King Arthur movie
ever made, the immortal Monty Python and the Holy Grail. The more you
know about Arthurian legend and medieval history, the funnier it
gets--although it's pretty funny even without a jot of knowledge about
either.
Greetings--
Lavolta Press wrote:
Let's face it, history is neither particularly valued nor particularly
job-getting in our society.
Tell me about it. PhD in history. Now working as a project manager (a
job I love, by the way--and doing the doctorate was great prep work!)
My bet is that most
In a message dated 4/23/2006 7:46:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
But if more movie goers didn't use movies as if they were reliable
sources of history...
**
If only they would not use them as a reliable source of anything. Many
people
I don't even want to think about what church historians and Renaissance
historians are going to go through when the Da Vinci Code movie comes
out. There are going to be an awful lot of people who will think it's
entirely factual.
So what? There are a great many fields which you and I know
On Sun, 23 Apr 2006, Susan Carroll-Clark wrote:
I don't even want to think about what church historians and
Renaissance historians are going to go through when the Da Vinci Code
movie comes out. There are going to be an awful lot of people who
will think it's entirely factual.
I'm already
, I
was appalled.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 6:40 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historical Films
In a message dated 4/23/2006 7:46:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL
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