News for you aging Sysprogs... :-)
It is not the mainframers who is aging while struggling to get new young
guys/gals into mainframes.
The farmers are also struggling here with this aging thing in South Africa and
United States.
Now read up those links before you retire! ;-)
http://www.agricu
Schools aren't training enough mainfarmers.;-)
Dave Salt
SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it!
http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html
> Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 02:41:39 -0600
> From: elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za
> Subject: Aging Syspr
program-development/simplist.html
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 02:41:39 -0600
> > From: elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za
> > Subject: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> >
> > News for you aging Sysprogs... :-)
> >
>
Dave Salt wrote:
>Schools aren't training enough mainfarmers.;-)
Because they're using ServerFarms for breeding bugs? ;-D
Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructi
chools aren't training enough mainfarmers.;-)
Dave Salt
SimpList(tm) - try it; you'll get it!
http://www.mackinney.com/products/program-development/simplist.html
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 02:41:39 -0600
From: elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za
Subject: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
To:
From: Steve Comstock
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU,
Date: 11/04/2013 08:03 AM
Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List
On 11/4/2013 8:58 AM, George Rodriguez wrote:
> That's not 100% true...
>
> "Schools aren'
-715-0595 Mobile
jo.skip.robin...@sce.com
From: Steve Comstock
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU,
Date: 11/04/2013 08:03 AM
Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
On 11/4/2013 8:58 AM, George Rodriguez wrote:
> That's not 100% true.
Yeah, but farmers have their own dating site www.farmersonly.com. Never seen
one of those for system programmers.
--- scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote:
From: Scott Ford
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 09:26
To have an adequate supply of new sysprogs to replace those retiring, the
compensation needs to be more attractive than it is currently. Most of the
younger people in IT see mainframe technology as a dead end. They might not
know when it will expire, but they think it will die off sooner than
:58:04
To:
Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
That's not 100% true...
"Schools aren't training enough mainfarmers."
There's a program in North Carolina that's teaching TSO, Cobol, JCL, etc...
and graduates are
I thought that was why we had those big SHARE and CMG conferences every year.
:-)
Bill Fairchild
Franklin, TN
- Original Message -
From: "Richard Pinion"
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Monday, November 4, 2013 11:31:04 AM
Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farm
Clark Morris
>-
>Ted MacNEIL
>eamacn...@yahoo.ca
>Twitter: @TedMacNEIL
>
>-Original Message-
>From: George Rodriguez
>Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
>Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 10:58:04
>To:
>Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion Li
om: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Clark Morris
Sent: 05 November 2013 10:15
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
On 4 Nov 2013 11:49:17 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:
>They said "enough" --
I have a former software developer colleague who is now teaching math at a
large state university. He agrees with me that colleges and universities
should educate young minds rather than train them for careers. His preference
is to teach students how to think about mathematics rather than how
On Tue, 5 Nov 2013 11:33:12 +, DASDBILL2 wrote:
> Every young person contemplating a mainframe career should spend a week
> reading IBM-Main. Maybe they do and that’s another reason why the profession
> is dying.
That's a bit close to the bone.
Shane ...
On 5/11/2013 8:01 PM, Shane Ginnane wrote:
On Tue, 5 Nov 2013 11:33:12 +, DASDBILL2 wrote:
Every young person contemplating a mainframe career should spend a week reading
IBM-Main. Maybe they do and that’s another reason why the profession is dying.
That's a bit close to the bone.
Inde
thread for
example ;) )
Ronald Kristel
NL
> Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 11:33:12 +
> From: dasdbi...@comcast.net
> Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>
Every young person contemplating a mainframe career sh
tefully received!
Thanks
-Robin
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Clark Morris
Sent: 05 November 2013 10:15
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
On 4 Nov 2013 11:49:17 -0800, in bit.l
On Tue, 5 Nov 2013 12:34:17 +, Ronald Kristel wrote:
>On the contrary..., I subscribed to IBM-Main mainly because it actually helped
>me understand a few things on my road of 'learning z/OS'.
Good for you - it's certainly an "education". If you can winnow out the drivel.
Dave also wrote:
> one of those for system programmers.
>
>
>
> --- scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> From: Scott Ford
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
> Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 09:26:28 -0800
>
> Sk
@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Steve Comstock
Sent: 05 November 2013 21:09
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
On 11/5/2013 12:51 AM, Robin Atwood wrote:
> Diverting the thread a tad, does anyone know where you can do an HLASM
> course? My young colleague wants
On Tue, 5 Nov 2013 07:16:52 -0600, Shane Ginnane wrote:
>
>Linux is a lot more fun for the technically inquisitive these days IMHO.
>
It's far less encrusted with the patina of antiquity. Much of OS/360
made sense in the resource-constrained batch environment in which
it originated. Nowadays, it
On Tue, 5 Nov 2013 08:13:14 -0600, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
>It's far less encrusted with the patina of antiquity. Much of OS/360
>made sense in the resource-constrained batch environment in which
>it originated. Nowadays, its residue is a requirement for compatibility;
>an enormous burden for nov
My own experience is that teenagers, preternaturally bright ones
admittedly, can learn to cope with what I shall limit myself to
calling the patina of antiquity. (The phrase "encrusted patina of
antiquity" is euphonious; but encrustations obscure, very shortly
indeed destroy patinæ.)
What I miss
Robin Atwood said:
>Diverting the thread a tad, does anyone know where you can do an HLASM
>course? My young colleague wants to be inducted into the mysteries of the
>ancient craft and we found various IBM courses (see below) but none of them
>are currently being offered. Of course, various outfits
>>> On 11/5/2013 at 12:54 PM, Ze'ev Atlas wrote:
> Adopt the methodology of the Unix, Linux and Windows echosystems, abandon any
> assembly whatsoever, license C and write all code in that language.
Not quite. Performance critical sections are sometimes still written in
hand-crafted assembler
Bill,
I agree my gf is at a university. Young ppl for whatever reason lack critical
thinking skills, not all of the youngsters, some
Scott ford
www.identityforge.com
from my IPAD
'Infinite wisdom through infinite means'
> On Nov 5, 2013, at 6:33 AM, DASDBILL2 wrote:
>
> I have a former soft
David,
So true , i am 63 still working..Unfortunately, we need money to live...lol
Scott ford
www.identityforge.com
from my IPAD
'Infinite wisdom through infinite means'
> On Nov 5, 2013, at 7:32 AM, David Crayford wrote:
>
>> On 5/11/2013 8:01 PM, Shane Ginnane wrote:
>>> On Tue, 5 Nov 2013
On 6/11/2013 12:37 AM, John Gilmore wrote:
I do of course agree that z/OS is perceived to be boring, but that is
another question.
I don't think it's perceived as boring, certainly it's perceived as user
hostile. Take Pauls cp command example, it's easy to copy files
using a simple command. Fo
On 11/5/2013 7:26 PM, David Crayford wrote:
I don't think it's perceived as boring, certainly it's perceived as user
hostile. Take Pauls cp command example, it's easy to copy files
using a simple command. For those that prefer GUIs they can drag and
drop or copy/paste. On the mainframe one has no
On 6/11/2013 10:33 AM, Gerhard Postpischil wrote:
On 11/5/2013 7:26 PM, David Crayford wrote:
I don't think it's perceived as boring, certainly it's perceived as user
hostile. Take Pauls cp command example, it's easy to copy files
using a simple command. For those that prefer GUIs they can drag
Unix and Windows have a lot of similarities. User interfaces are often similar.
Most users will continue using those if possible.
z/OS has TSO, CICS and IMS. We have webservers. We can run X-window clients. We
can run Emacs. The ability exists. The problem is that the desire is not there
and
On 11/5/2013 5:26 PM, David Crayford wrote:
On 6/11/2013 12:37 AM, John Gilmore wrote:
I do of course agree that z/OS is perceived to be boring, but that is
another question.
I don't think it's perceived as boring, certainly it's perceived as user
hostile. Take Pauls cp command example, it's e
>>> On 11/5/2013 at 09:33 PM, Gerhard Postpischil wrote:
> And I find "cp" terribly confusing - to a neophyte does it stand for
> copy, or compare, or compress (as in disk reorganization). It might make
> more sense if I could assign an alias of COPY to it.
Try "alias copy=cp"
or
"alias compar
this.
Cheers
-Robin
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Mark Post
Sent: 06 November 2013 02:06
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
>>> On 11/5/2013 at 12:54 PM, Ze'ev Atlas
> And I find "cp" terribly confusing - to a neophyte does it stand for
> copy, or compare, or compress (as in disk reorganization). It might make
> more sense if I could assign an alias of COPY to it.
well...actually you can do that, quite easily:
alias COPY=cp
I "cut my teeth" on DOS rel 26 m
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 2:05 AM, Michael G Phillips wrote:
> > And I find "cp" terribly confusing - to a neophyte does it stand for
> > copy, or compare, or compress (as in disk reorganization). It might make
> > more sense if I could assign an alias of COPY to it.
> well...actually you can do that
The notion that JCL is somehow hateful is widespread and not new.
In the 1970s a colleague kept telling me that [UNIVAC] Exec 8 was much
superior to JCL. He showed me what it required to compile and
execute a FORTRAN program, which he thought compared very unfavorably
with the JCL required to do
Robin,
I know Share usually have a nice ASM training at the Conference. And you
get to attend some of the other tracks as well.
http://www.share.org/
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 1:51 AM, Robin Atwood wrote:
> Diverting the thread a tad, does anyone know where you can do an HLASM
> course? My youn
JCL is neither simple or powerful. It's a piece of poorly designed junk that
should never have made GA. Even it's original implementers admit that it's
rubbish. Try explaining the reverse logic of condition codes to a youngster and
they will die laughing.
Hey, how do I do a loop in this code?
k"
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU,
Date: 11/05/2013 21:39
Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List
On 11/5/2013 5:26 PM, David Crayford wrote:
> On 6/11/2013 12:37 AM, John Gilmore wrote:
>> I do of course agree that z
On Tue, 5 Nov 2013 21:33:20 -0500, Gerhard Postpischil wrote:
>
>IIRC, IBM has had a simple COPY command ever since TSO/E - no JCL
>needed. JCL is unpleasant only if you're not used to it; I've run on
>Univac, Unisys, CDC, and other systems, and found JCL to be a good
>compromise of simplicity and
tual command you issued?
Kind regards,
-Steve
From: "Steve Comstock"
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU,
Date: 11/05/2013 21:39
Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List
On 11/5/2013 5:26 PM, David Crayford wrote:
On 6/11/
Simply from option 6 I entered SMCOPY
Alan Field
Technical Engineer Principal
BCBS Minnesota
Phone: 651.662.3546 Mobile: 651.428.8826
From: "Steve Comstock"
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU,
Date: 11/06/2013 08:58
Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farme
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 02:05:33 -0600, Michael G Phillips wrote:
>
>In the Linux/Unix/AIX world it ain't much better but at least there's the
>wonderful 'man page's - great if you know what command you want to get details
>on but useless if don't.
>
"apropos" helps some.
>Now working with large mai
ISTSERV.UA.EDU,
Date: 11/06/2013 08:58
Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List
On 11/6/2013 7:47 AM, Alan Field wrote:
Possibly because many of us don't run Session manager.
Here's what I get: SESSION MANAGER NOT ACTIVE -
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 22:45:01 +0800, David Crayford wrote:
>JCL is neither simple or powerful. It's a piece of poorly designed junk that
>should never have made GA. Even it's original implementers admit that it's
>rubbish. Try explaining the reverse logic of condition codes to a youngster
>and th
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 08:47:45 -0600, Alan Field wrote:
>Possibly because many of us don't run Session manager.
>
Why not? Is that separately priced? I think I tried it once;
saw no advantage to it, and reverted. Does it play well
with ISPF?
>Here's what I get: SESSION MANAGER NOT ACTIVE - SMCOP
> On 6 Nov 2013, at 11:32 pm, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 22:45:01 +0800, David Crayford wrote:
>>
>> JCL is neither simple or powerful. It's a piece of poorly designed junk that
>> should never have made GA. Even it's original implementers admit that it's
>> rubbish. Try exp
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 08:14:04 -0700, Steve Comstock wrote:
>
>Ah. In the TSO Command Reference you will see:
>
>"If the source and target of the copy request are both data sets, (SYSOUT or
>QSAM), you do not have to be logged on under the Session Manager to use the
>SMCOPY command."
>
What's a data
On 11/6/2013 8:45 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 08:14:04 -0700, Steve Comstock wrote:
Ah. In the TSO Command Reference you will see:
"If the source and target of the copy request are both data sets, (SYSOUT or
QSAM), you do not have to be logged on under the Session Manager to u
IBM Mainframe Discussion List wrote on
11/06/2013 10:32:09 AM:
> From: Paul Gilmartin
> The "reverse logic of condition codes" probably was intuitive to an
> assembler or FORTRAN programmer who thought of branching
> around a statement.
I remember first seeing CCs in 1966 while in graduate sc
en updated to support unix files.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Steve Comstock
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 9:48 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
O
On 2013-11-06, at 09:06, Pommier, Rex wrote:
>.
>
>. ===> smcopy fds(/etc/logs) tds(/u/rex/log-deleteme)
>
>
> IKJ56700A ENTER INPUT SOURCE DATASET NAME -
JCL get's a bad rap but it is extremely useful. I too dislike using it but I
would regret not having it. It certainly could use a rewrite but there are
issues with that.
JCL gives us batch (or background) processing which some equate to UNIX
background task but it provides so much more:
1. JC
IEBGENER is the generate utility. It was developed for background (not
interactive use). I suspect that today, it is primarily used to copy files
because it is synonymous with copying a file To avoid collisions, IBM add's 3
letter product prefixes.
In the interactive environment, we use the CO
I mostly used CL/Supersession so I don't know the specifics for Session Manager.
Session manager allowed multiple terminal sessions from a single terminal. I
doubt if it's used much any more since we now have PC's with multiple TN3270
sessions. SMCOPY appears to be COPY/PASTE and it seems to sup
>From the current HLASM Language Reference, page 209:
The REPRO [assembler] instruction causes the data specified in the
statement that follows to be copied unaltered into the object file.
John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA
-
On 6 November 2013 11:23, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
>>. ===> smcopy fds(/etc/logs) tds(/u/rex/log-deleteme)
>>
>> IKJ56700A ENTER INPUT SOURCE DATASET NAME -
>> /etc/logs
>> IKJ56709I INVALID DATA SET NAME, /etc/logs
>>
> Actually, that could be a valid data set name with
> DI
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 08:32:41 -0800, Jon Perryman wrote:
>2. It is the only tool where we can easilyt segregate interactive versus long
>running programs. This allows WLM give more resources to interactive users
>because they are personally waiting. Sysprog's encourage it's use by setting
>WLM su
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 08:55:05 -0800, Jon Perryman wrote:
>Session manager allowed multiple terminal sessions from a single terminal.
>
Past tense? Is it gone? STTL?
Multiple sessions with the same user ID? On the same LPAR? I know
there are CBTTape type hacks for this, but it hasn't become mai
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 11:57:58 -0500, John Gilmore wrote:
>From the current HLASM Language Reference, page 209:
>
>The REPRO [assembler] instruction causes the data specified in the
>statement that follows to be copied unaltered into the object file.
>
I'm lacking the context.
Were we talking abou
On 11/6/2013 12:44 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
And concerning COPY, wasn't it mentioned earlier here that it belonged
to a separately priced feature, perhaps now withdrawn?
It's my understanding that IBM first offered it as a chargeable
enhancement, but after a while included it in the standard
In <5279aa70.3020...@valley.net>, on 11/05/2013
at 09:33 PM, Gerhard Postpischil said:
>IIRC, IBM has had a simple COPY command ever since TSO/E - no JCL
>needed.
I believe that you're thinking of TSO Data Set Utilities: COPY, FORMAT
LIST and MERGE. The only good thing that I can say about i
In <5279b9ea.50...@trainersfriend.com>, on 11/05/2013
at 08:39 PM, Steve Comstock said:
>Actually, in a TSO session (analogous to a UNIX session), you can
>use the SMCOPY command without JCL.
I thought that you needed Session Manager to use SMCOPY, but sure
enough:
2. If the source and
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 12:03:58 -0500, Tony Harminc wrote:
>
>>> IKJ56709I INVALID DATA SET NAME, /etc/logs
>>>
>> Actually, that could be a valid data set name with
>> DISABLE(DSNCHECK) in effect. It appears to me that SMCOPY
>> hasn't been updated to support the new facilities of catalogs.
>
>... Al
On 11/6/2013 9:54 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
Whereas it's intuitively obvious that IEBGENER means "copy". Give me a
break! You can assign whatever alias you choose (even IEBGENER) to
"cp" with a single command; either as a shell alias or as a symbolic link.
When I first looked at *nix, I did n
> The "//" hack has long been deprecated by POSIX. IBM should have heeded that
> caution and avoided it.
Since IBM's use of "//" predated POSIX by twenty years, perhaps POSIX should
have avoided using it.
Bob Shannon
Rocket Software
---
AIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2013 7:40 AM
>Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
>
>
>> On 6 Nov 2013, at 11:32 pm, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 22:45:01 +0800, David Crayford wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey, how
Sorry for the confusion. I was talking about TSO and IDCAMS REPRO. We have this
same problem with acronyms now having multiple meaning.
Jon Perryman.
>
> From: John Gilmore
>
>
>The REPRO [assembler] instruction causes the data specified in the
>statement that
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 12:03:14 -0500, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote:
>
>I believe that you're thinking of TSO Data Set Utilities: COPY, FORMAT
>LIST and MERGE. The only good thing that I can say about it is that it
>led me to order the ASI TSO Superset Utilities, a much more reliable
>and better supp
Overloaded acronyms are probably inevitable, as in
ACM
Association for Computing Machinery
Academy of Country Music
which neither group thinks felicitous. Still, one of the uses of a
Google search is to avoid embarassing ones.
John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA
-
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Gerhard Postpischil wrote:
> When I first looked at *nix, I did not find either cp, or any alias
> capability. The standard copy was pip.
>
UNIX had pip? I used "pip", peripherial interchange program, in CP/M-80.
"alias" isn't usually called a command. It is a sh
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 13:04:08 -0500, Gerhard Postpischil wrote:
>
>IBM did users a favor by (mostly) not using obvious names. When I worked
>at ADR, the help test asked for assistance with a problem they couldn't
>solve - the user has a CoBOL program that invoked the sort, but kept
>blowing up no mat
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 10:06:39 -0800, Jon Perryman wrote:
>JCL not having loop capabilities has nothing to do with rewinding card readers.
>
*I* believe he was being facetious.
>It has to do with variable substitution occurring as interpretation time. How
>would you get out of a loop except by usin
On 2013-11-06, at 11:06, Bob Shannon wrote:
>> The "//" hack has long been deprecated by POSIX. IBM should have heeded
>> that caution and avoided it.
>
> Since IBM's use of "//" predated POSIX by twenty years, perhaps POSIX should
> have avoided using it.
>
I think that by deprecating it,
On 11/6/2013 1:22 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
But why didn't they follow the same direction naming library macros? And
why isn't STIMER named WAIT, and why isn't LOAD named GET and ...
And why do most of them defy the component prefixing conventions?
Macros were contributed by different groups,
The problem with all of these arguments is that each of us is a
creature of his or her own unique experience. What I find felicitous
may well, often does, seem counter-intuitive to you.
STIMER is not called WAIT because another macro is called WAIT, etc., etc.
I do agree that aliasing facilities
JCL, TSO and UNIX are very different by nature. While they all are controlled
by WLM, WLM handles their defaults differently. TSO has a user who won't
tolerate the screen being locked because they want to continue working. JCL is
disconnected from the user and the user is willing for the job to
riced.
Jon Perryman.
>
> From: Paul Gilmartin
>To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2013 9:44 AM
>Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
>
>
>On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 08:55:05 -0800, Jon Perryman wrote:
>
>>Session manager allowed multiple term
etting WLM such that a user get's less than
> batch priority when they use to many resources.
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013n.html#16 z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs =
Aging Farmers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013n.html#17 z/OS is antique WAS: Aging Sysprogs =
Aging Farme
me
than "cp".
Our MVS world is not without similar egregious examples. E.g, some of the
operator/user commands for Omegamon were very cryptic.
Bill Fairchld
Franklin, TN
- Original Message -
From: "Paul Gilmartin"
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Wednesd
d not withdraw it. I
don't know if it's still priced.
Jon Perryman.
>
> From: Paul Gilmartin
>To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2013 9:44 AM
>Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
>
>
>On Wed, 6 Nov
It's been a long time but I though DFS had a server (SMB or NFS) that did
exactly what you want. I think this was one of the configuration I setup. I
won't swear to it though.
Jon Perryman.
>
> From: Paul Gilmartin
> I would make an addition of a virtual file
y used that IBM could not withdraw it. I
don't know if it's still priced.
Jon Perryman.
From: Paul Gilmartin
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2013 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 08:55:05 -
Sorry, I must have been thinking of a different product. Not sure which one.
Jon Perryman.
>
> From: Bill Godfrey
>
>
>In case this is causing confusion to some readers, the Session Manager that
>includes the SMCOPY command, which was mentioned earlier, has not
>IIRC, IBM has had a simple COPY command ever since TSO/E - no JCL
>needed. JCL is unpleasant only if you're not used to it; I've run on
>Univac, Unisys, CDC, and other systems, and found JCL to be a good
>compromise of simplicity and power.
>
>And I find "cp" terribly confusing - to a neophyte
On 2013-11-06 15:06, DASDBILL2 wrote:
My first thought when I see "cp" is "central processor."
How about using "NIO" as an alias of "cp" (meaning "copy"), where "NIO" stands for "Not Intuitively
Obvious"? "cpy" is much more intuitively obvious to me than "cp".
Our MVS world is not without sim
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Gord Tomlin wrote:
> On 2013-11-06 15:06, DASDBILL2 wrote:
>
>> My first thought when I see "cp" is "central processor."
>>
>> How about using "NIO" as an alias of "cp" (meaning "copy"), where "NIO"
>> stands for "Not Intuitively Obvious"? "cpy" is much more intui
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Gord Tomlin
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 3:16 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
On 2013-11-06 15:06, DASDBILL2 wrote:
> My first thou
On 2013-11-06 16:52, Pommier, Rex wrote:
I would have to say that my 'favorite' *nix commands has to be
awk. Talk about a command name having nothing to do with the function. For those
who don't know, awk is the first letters of the last names of the 3 people who
invented it. It is a text
; From: Jon Perryman
>To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2013 7:57 PM
>Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
>
>
>Unix and Windows have a lot of similarities. User interfaces are often
>similar. Most users will continue using those if possible.
>
On 6 November 2013 18:02, Frank Swarbrick wrote:
> Does anyone actually run X-Windows on z/OS? Seems to me GUI things such as
> the Explorer tools, the Debug Tool (and other Productivity Tools) GUI, etc.,
> and even RDz could be well served by being X-Windows client applications.
> But what d
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 12:15:34 -0800, Jon Perryman wrote:
>It's been a long time but I though DFS had a server (SMB or NFS) that did
>exactly what you want. �I think this was one of the configuration I setup. I
>won't swear to it though.
>
True. I was hoping to bypass TCP/IP and network overhead.
.UA.EDU
>Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2013 3:02 PM
>Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
>
>
>Does anyone actually run X-Windows on z/OS? Seems to me GUI things such as
>the Explorer tools, the Debug Tool (and other Productivity Tools) GUI, etc.,
>and even RDz coul
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 16:15:56 -0500, Rich Greenberg wrote:
>
>A historical note for Gerhard and others who wonder about the cryptic
>commands in Unix (and derivatives). It was largely because of what was
>available as interactive terminals at the time. Sloow TTYs. 60 to
>100 chars per minute.
If using UNIX on z/OS, then your hitting the network. Instead you are staying
within the same TCP stack. Even if it's on another system in the SYSPLEX, then
it would go thru the coupling facility. If you are going off platform, then you
would need samba or NFS anyways. If no one is accessing it,
On Wed, 6 Nov 2013 15:02:48 -0800, Frank Swarbrick wrote:
>Does anyone actually run X-Windows on z/OS?� Seems to me GUI things such as
>the Explorer tools, the Debug Tool (and other Productivity Tools) GUI, etc.,
>and even RDz could be well served by being X-Windows client applications.� But
>w
On 7/11/2013 7:22 AM, Tony Harminc wrote:
On 6 November 2013 18:02, Frank Swarbrick wrote:
Does anyone actually run X-Windows on z/OS? Seems to me GUI things such as the
Explorer tools, the Debug Tool (and other Productivity Tools) GUI, etc., and
even RDz could be well served by being X-Wind
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
> On Behalf Of David Crayford
> Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 5:37 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Aging Sysprogs = Aging Farmers
>
> Who knows what t
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