My two cents worth:
When I posted a while back asking whether anyone had used either Active D
irectory or web
services from VM -- no one had. I got several suggestions that I use Linu
x as a front end.
It makes me really sad, but I have to conclude that VM/CMS is NOT a good
place to develop
PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Walter
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 9:25 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: z/VM usability
Good luck on upgrading z/VM from 4.4 to 5.3 on Memorial Day weekend. z/VM
5.3 does not reach General Availability until June 29, 2007.
See:
http://www-306.ibm.com/common/ssi
On 5/8/07, Paul Raulerson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
No, I have looked, and CMS Pipelines are nice indeed. But then so are pipes
under UNIX; indeed, pipes are the very core of UNIX. If you are not annoyed
by discussing it, I would love to hear your opinions on what is so primitive
about UNIX. :)
Paul Raulerson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
No, I have looked, and CMS Pipelines are nice indeed. But then so are pipes
under UNIX; indeed, pipes are the very core of UNIX. If you are not annoyed
by discussing it, I would love to hear your opinions on what is so primitive
about UNIX. :)
This is an
No, I have looked, and CMS Pipelines are nice indeed. But then so are pipes
under UNIX; indeed, pipes are the very core of UNIX. If you are not annoyed
by discussing it, I would love to hear your opinions on what is so primitive
about UNIX. :)
As I said: leaky garden hose. The analogy holds
A great summation Phil, and accurate. VM (and z/OS) are *comfortable*
environments, because almost everything you can do you can only do one or two
ways, and they are usually pretty darn well documented. In business, this is a
*wonderful* thing. :)
In UNIX, if there are not at least 5 different
Try Melinda Varian's history of VM at
http://www.princeton.edu/~melinda/25paper.pdf
Regards,
Richard Schuh
VM on the mainframe however, was being driven from different
motivations. Perhaps someone here will share and contrast those reasona
and
--- David Boyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Has anyone written a third party OS that can
easily replace CMS?
None are easy replacements, but IMHO there are
several possible
candidates:
MUSIC
Linux
Solaris (coming soon)
Only MUSIC is really CMS-like. The other two are
obvious Unix
On 5/8/07, Paul Raulerson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well- I was being polite, since this is pretty obviously a sore subject with
you for some reason.
I was being polite too, as we all are on this list. There is nothing
sore about this with me, but I consider myself a bit more
knowledgeable
Well Rob - I maanged pretty much to buy, install, and bring up our zSeries here
with z/VM and Linux, with only a few little gotcha's here and there. And keep
it running for near on four years now. I'm not an IBM Systems Programmer, but I
do resemble one at times. If you are in the Austin area
Alan Altmark wrote:
Well, it's been nigh on 40 years that CMS has been around. Seems like a
committment to me. CMS is here to stay. If all the people with z/OS
get z/VM and [re]discover CMS, who knows what might happen? Never say
die!
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#41 z/VM
By business as usual, I mean that IBM continually withdraws
products
from the marketplace, even some that people are using.
Granted. IBM has that privilege, no argument. We rarely force you to
change your mind on these issues (at least where it really counted,
somebody took a risk continuing
Has anyone written a third party OS that can easily replace CMS? I mean, CMS,
despite being tightly integrated to all things VM, is in the final analysis,
just another Host OS isn't it? Surely over 40 years someone has written
something that can be used to replace it, perhaps something open
Subject
Re: z/VM usability
By business as usual, I mean that IBM continually withdraws
products
from the marketplace, even some that people are using.
Granted. IBM has that privilege, no argument. We rarely force you to
change your mind on these issues (at least where it really counted
Has anyone written a third party OS that can easily replace CMS?
None are easy replacements, but IMHO there are several possible
candidates:
MUSIC
Linux
Solaris (coming soon)
Only MUSIC is really CMS-like. The other two are obvious Unix
derivatives, and would require retooling or emulation of
Build it and they won't come. Show them how it makes their lives easier
and they WILL come -- lowering their TCO and buying more mainframe mips,
too.
z/VM is a collection of fabulous tools. Use the best tool for the job at
hand, sometimes: CMS.
Mike Walter
A prime example of doing
Well - Linux works now, and can talk to all the CP services. Linux also comes
with Rexx (Regina), XEdit (THE Editor from Tim Hessling), and pipes that are
roughly equivalent to CMS Pipelines. Named pipes and message queues and such
are all available and under Linux and Solaris, very heavily
Umm... that's Mark Hessling.
Paul Raulerson wrote:
Well - Linux works now, and can talk to all the CP services. Linux also
comes with Rexx (Regina), XEdit (THE Editor from Tim Hessling), and
pipes that are roughly equivalent to CMS Pipelines. Named pipes and
message queues and such are all
On 5/7/07, Paul Raulerson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well - Linux works now, and can talk to all the CP services. Linux also
comes with Rexx (Regina), XEdit (THE Editor from Tim Hessling), and pipes
that are roughly equivalent to CMS Pipelines. Named pipes and message queues
and such are all
On Mon, 7 May 2007 13:20:43 -0400, George Haddad wrote:
Before I ever used VM a company where I worked had timeshare accounts at
NCSS using VP/CSS. Except for the personal disk being P instead of A,
it resembled CP/CMS quite a bit. I wonder if that ever got open-sourced?
For that matter, are
Yep, it is Mark indeed. My mistake. I should not type at work. :)
-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich
Smrcina
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 2:15 PM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: z/VM usability
Umm... that's Mark
that.
-Paul
-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rob van der Heij
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 2:17 PM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: z/VM usability
On 5/7/07, Paul Raulerson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well - Linux works now, and can
I'm currently engaged in moving a bunch of things from VM/CMS to Linux.
Most of it is written in Rexx with a lot of Pipelines. The Rexx part
has proved to be pretty easy -- ooRexx is mostly compatible and mostly
an improvement. The Pipeline part is a lot tougher.
Writing something that does
Actually, a CMS shell that ran under Linux would
be pretty neat.
Now there is a project for someone who wants to
learn C#... just let
me finish re-installing my iBook, getting Bacula to
work, fixing the
server that I messed up the other week, trying to
get MS Windows to
boot under
On Thursday, 05/03/2007 at 07:35 EST, Dave Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
No, no new pipelines stages.
That's simply b.splease see Rob van der Heij's What's New with CMS
Pipelines presentation from the zExpo last month. There are at least 5
new Pipes stages that have been introduced
I'm currently engaged in moving a bunch of things from VM/CMS to Linux.
Most of it is written in Rexx with a lot of Pipelines. The Rexx part
has proved to be pretty easy -- ooRexx is mostly compatible and mostly
an improvement. The Pipeline part is a lot tougher. I sure wish CMS
Pipelines could
barton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So question: If there was a web/browser interface on z/vm that would
support a complete
interactive CMS environment, would that be of interest? It's not that
difficult (says the
guy that tells other people to do the work). We already take 3270 CMS
applications
Hi, Alan.
Thanks for taking the time to respond in an intelligent and thoughtful
manner to my rather ranting-style post. I appreciate it.
Alan Altmark wrote:
On Thursday, 05/03/2007 at 07:35 EST, Dave Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
No, no new pipelines stages.
That's simply b.splease
On Friday, 05/04/2007 at 10:45 EST, Dave Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
And how many time have we told you *not* to use big words like
hyperbole or sophisticated literary devices like similes and
metaphors; you're dealing with VM-ers here, after all..;-)
Erudite VMers, of course.
-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marcy Cortes
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:23 PM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: z/VM usability
CMS for applications is pretty clearly a dead end, although I don't
think
All those CMS based applications are here at the State of New Jersey.
We spent a year removing calls to 'PROFS' from CMS users exec's and
profile's. This was from June 2005 to June 2006. Part of this was a
nightly process to update the System Names file.
And now we are working on the
PROTECTED]*
Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
05/03/2007 01:26 PM
Please respond to
The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
To
IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
cc
Subject
Re: z/VM usability
Alan,
How about
I think that you are talking about something that is either going to hit
us real hard or IBM is going to come out with something that will
eliminate the need to the CMS based tools old folks such as me and,
having met a lot of you at SHARE conferences, most of the rest of you.
You look around
VIrtualization is (finally) a hot topic among the young 'uns in the
industry. Unfortunately, most have never heard of the IBM's VM. I have
run into a few younger (30-something) folks who have discovered the
roots of virtualization and have tried to play around with it with
Hercules.
I think that you are talking about something that is either going to
hit
us real hard or IBM is going to come out with something that will
eliminate the need to the CMS based tools old folks such as me and,
having met a lot of you at SHARE conferences, most of the rest of you.
One of the
Finally, a topic where I fell I may have something to add vs learn!
I am 'new' to z/VM, other than IBM education classes I logged on to 'our'
first VM system May 2005. I've spent the previous 25 years in COBOL, CICS,
z/OS.
We ventured into the z/VM to support linux to support WebSphere. Its
Surely you jest!!!
Well, no, actually.
Using Linux to build a TPF system was something IBM 'forced' onto the
TPF
users despite their kicking and screaming to the contrary. Just ask
anyone
of the TPF users how much they like using Linux to build their TPF
systems.
Curious. The TPF people I
Just kind of wonder
Is IBM making TPF users depend on a non-IBM product (zLinux), to maintain TPF?
About 3 or 4 years ago, we had a rather lengthy topic on using a canned
Linux/390, similar to GCS or even CMS in order to host Linux type servers.
Mostly small stuff (as common at that
Probably badly phrased on my part: CMS-oriented applications is
probably a better description.
The stuff works, it's tested, and rewriting it probably isn't
cost-effective. Where do those
applications go? And how?
Some that work stay just chugging along.
Those that need rewrites or big
On May 2, 2007, at 9:51 PM, David Kreuter wrote:
yet another urban legend, you know, like the mole people that live
seven levels below Grand Central station.
Dude. You have *no* idea. C.H.U.D.? *Not* science fiction. Not
even fiction.
Adam
I don't doubt that there were/are people living under Grand Central. Seen the
dearth of homeless in Manhattan lately? They've gone somewhere. It's the seven
levels below that I think is legend. The book The Mole People is a great
read.
But I digress.
-Original Message-
From: The IBM
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