Are there any icelandic-style trainers who train for natural gait?
How about any icelandic-style trainers that start horses bitless?
Judy
all holar students are for an example starting their horses bitless
and every trainer/breeder wants to have natural gaitedness as it take´s to
Are there any icelandic-style trainers who train for natural gait?
How about any icelandic-style trainers that start horses bitless?
Judy
all holar students are for an example starting their horses
bitlessand every trainer/breeder wants to have natural gaitedness as
it take´s to
From the Iceland Review:
Tölt is unique to the Icelandic horse.
Are there any icelandic-style trainers who train for natural gait?
How about any icelandic-style trainers that start horses bitless?
Judy
http://icehorses.net
http://clickryder.com
On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 10:45:58 -0700, you wrote:
How about any icelandic-style trainers that start horses bitless?
Yes, there are some of those here.
www.icelandichorses.co.uk (Janice Hutchinson)
http://www.oakfield-icelandics.co.uk/ (my ex, Nick)
several who don't have websites...
and me! ; )
How about any icelandic-style trainers that start horses bitless?
Yes, there are some of those here.
and me! ; )
Mic, can you describe what you do?
How long are they ridden bitless?
What type of exercises do you do?
Judy
http://icehorses.net
http://clickryder.com
Mic, can you describe what you do?
I don't do much at all under saddle, as I'm large and I don't think
it's fair on the young horses who don't have the muscles or fitness to
carry a rider, let alone one my size. However - I do start them. My
own horses only, so they are used to me and my ways.
I'm not sure I will feel confident enough to ride her out in a group
without the added psychological boost of knowing I can definitely stop
her if I really need to, which I don't always have from a bitless
bridle. My problem, not the horse's.
Maybe wear the bit with an extra set of reins.
I also didn't see that it was directed at you, Mic.
yes, i think so often we have some from one group and some from this
one and ne're the twain shall meet but I personally feel we all have a
lot to offer one another, a lot to learn from the varying perspectives
and Mic is one who has a lot
On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 15:32:11 -0700, you wrote:
I did not know that there was a video already done of the WC??
Neither did I! They are certainly making one, but I wasn't aware it
was in production yet.
Mic
Mic (Michelle) Rushen
On 9/3/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sun, Sep 02, 2007 at 10:04:45PM -0500, Janice McDonald wrote:
you always see indians in movies riding bareback but I have held
Indian hand carved and well worn wooden stirrups... they were really
large btw... like EZ rides only
because everyone from iceland here trains the same way?
janice--
No they do not..there are variances.
how can you say that with such certainty. have you ever seen any
icelandic people over here training? or the results of their
training? or rehabbed any horses that have been
do you happen to know what nation they came from?
They came from Little Big Horn.
the battle? that would be sioux or cheyenne, yes?
--vicka (not an american history whiz)
On Tue, Sep 04, 2007 at 08:00:54AM -0500, Janice McDonald wrote:
because everyone from iceland here trains the same way?
janice--
No they do not..there are variances.
how can you say that with such certainty. have you ever seen any
icelandic people over here training? or
He took us to his home, where he had a locked room
containing stuff I really would have thought you'd find in a museum.
he had a lock.of custer's hair (it really was yellow!), a letter from
custer to his family, many guns, a tomahawk (the weight and leverage
of it would make it easy to kill
On Tue, Sep 04, 2007 at 11:02:22AM -0500, Janice McDonald wrote:
I am not sure either. I had a history professor who was a Little Big
Horn/Custer buff. He took us to his home, where he had a locked room
containing stuff I really would have thought you'd find in a museum.
he had a lock.of
From the Iceland Review:
Tölt is unique to the Icelandic horse.
Are there any icelandic-style trainers who train for natural gait?
Judy
http://icehorses.net
http://clickryder.com
--- Janice McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
because everyone from iceland here trains the same way?
janice--
Skye wrote:
No they do not..there are variances.
Janice Wrote:
how can you say that with such certainty. have you ever seen any
icelandic people over here
Baldur fra Bakka who won the 1999 flying pace WChe was my trail
mount for a long time, wonderful horsevery traditional training.
And Baldur is the one who you told us was sent to Hawaii to retire, and who
you also said was sterile due to steroid use during his show career, right
Skye?
--- Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Baldur fra Bakka who won the 1999 flying pace WChe was my
trail
mount for a long time, wonderful horsevery traditional
training.
And Baldur is the one who you told us was sent to Hawaii to retire,
and who
you also said was sterile
--- Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You just can not put all of Iceland into a neat little cubical
and
think that all of them train the same way...
But they do, Skye. Sorry, but there is very very little variation
in how
they train, ride, handle horses.
If we were in
--- Robyn Hood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Janice
But Pat Parelli and Satcie Westfall and
Lynn
Palm have been doing that for years and even judy on this list
did
it
way before that guy. He probably stole it from us :) hey, we're
trendsetters! yay. maybe theres some other
On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 20:47:48 -0700, you wrote:
It wasn't just that he rode the flying pace - I understand he rode walk,
trot, canter and tolt as well if I am not mistaken. Mic was there I think.
I was - he did. It was incredible, I was in tears. I think a
bareback/bridleless class would be
I don't think that many people actually follow thru in using new things
that they learn in clinics from foreigners.
Note that Judy said MANY. There was that post that someone sent in from
the girl she met from the Parelli forum. Of course, she said she was widely
ridiculed, but that a few
I think it would be great if they offered a bridleless competition for
Icelandics. That is really a T2 competition...
Absolutely. What I've seen about the loose rein competitions has NOT been
impressive - it all seems to be about macho bravado, sort of like the
Icelandic drill team demo I
your impression, however, does not agree with my experience of gudmar
or ebba. so i suspect there is either more variation than you perceive or
that your baseline is off somehow.
OR...maybe some folks will tell certain gullible people what they want to
hear. What? In the context of horses?
I know that here on the Big island which is tiny compared to Iceland, we
only have around 160,000 people living here, most of them do not own
horses.however every trainer trains differently.
Have you never read any history of Hawaii, Skye?I never lived there, but
I read a lot of the
Hi Judy,
Having bought horses and tried horses from quite a few farms in Iceland I
would say that while there is definitely a strong similarity in how they
train, there is a huge difference in the outcome.
I don't think that many people actually follow thru in using new things
that they learn
- Original Message -
From: Robyn Hood [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Judy, I definitely appreciate your continued advocacy for horses and feel
that you have a lot more openness to accepting what US trainers do than
anything an Icelandic trainer could do.
Hi Robyn,
These are my sentiments, too.
Hi Mic,
I was - he did. It was incredible, I was in tears. I think a
bareback/bridleless class would be amazing, but it might get a bit
exciting in the finals with more than one horse on the track! ; )
That would be very interesting : )) but maybe it could be just judged on
the initial
On Sun, Sep 02, 2007 at 10:04:45PM -0500, Janice McDonald wrote:
you always see indians in movies riding bareback but I have held
Indian hand carved and well worn wooden stirrups... they were really
large btw... like EZ rides only wooden and instead of neoprene to
absorb shock they had
On Sun, Sep 02, 2007 at 08:26:30PM -0700, Judy Ryder wrote:
I have to trust my own eyes, my own first-hand experiences, and my long-term
equine experience, over yours. Sorry.
and i have to trust mine over yours. sorry.
I'm not so sure that a beginner and new owner can see other than a
On Mon, Sep 03, 2007 at 08:36:02AM -0400, Karen Thomas wrote:
To make an informed decision, you really need to listen to
more than two very young people who have a vested interest in changing
certain images.
erm. gudmar is quite young; i think ebba is aroud forty, though i
haven't asked
i'm neither a beginner horsewoman nor, after a year, a new owner.
Umm, I'd say that you are indeed a new horse owner, in my book. I
believe I can say that, as I am not a new horse owner, having owned
horses for 15 years, and having ridden for over 30. I'd suspect Judy
is a bit more
i'm neither a beginner horsewoman nor, after a year, a new owner.
Umm, I'd say that you are indeed a new horse owner, in my book. I believe
I can say that, as I am not a new horse owner, having owned horses for 15
years, and having ridden for over 30.
That's kind of my thinking too, Robyn!
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 12:06:07 -0400, you wrote:
Umm, I'd say that you are indeed a new horse owner, in my book. I believe
I can say that, as I am not a new horse owner, having owned horses for 15
years, and having ridden for over 30.
This made me think I've ridden for 39 years, owned horses
And I've
heard so many people say that when they owned horses that they boarded, they
had a whole 'nuther wave of being a newbie to go through once they brought
their horse home. Dealing with ALL the decisions of horse ownership often
doesn't hit home until you are forced to make ALL of the
--- Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I know that here on the Big island which is tiny compared to
Iceland, we
only have around 160,000 people living here, most of them do not
own
horses.however every trainer trains differently.
Have you never read any history of Hawaii,
Umm, I'd say that you are indeed a new horse owner, in my book. I
believe
I can say that, as I am not a new horse owner, having owned horses for 15
years, and having ridden for over 30.
This made me think I've ridden for 39 years, owned horses for 34
years, and Icelandics for 21. Been to
I would like to see more pics of people riding from the side so I could
tell if they were cantle sitting or not. That's one of my huge pet
peeves..
You said it, Wanda - mine too. Riding with legs straight under you is not
balanced riding if your butt is on the cantle. The rider is
While I have seen lots of things I don't like in Iceland - I have also had
older trainers come over and give 'heck' to younger trainers for things
they
didn't like such as a horse I was trying (nearly 20 years ago granted)
that
must have gotten his tongue over the bit and the trainer had a
Do I really NEED to post the links to the same pictures we posted maybe
three months ago?
Yes, that would be interesting.
Isn't there a video of him doing what he called a dressage demo at EA?
Judy
http://icehorses.net
http://clickryder.com
IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos:
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 09:55:56 -0700, you wrote:
Did Bruno start riding bareback and bridleless because he saw LTJ do it?
He did it because he has a good relationship with his horse.
He started after it was presented on the list.
He doesn't even speak English
Mic
Mic (Michelle) Rushen
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 09:55:56 -0700, you wrote:
(not that he did anything functional except ride the horse in a straight
line, on a closed track BTW why isn't there any video of that ride? odd
that the WC was video'd, but there's no video of Bruno?).
That's another myth in the making.
People can own horses all their lives and end up only being a horse owner.
Oh, thanks for that Judy. You have never seen my horses, or me riding
in person. You are not qualified to make that judgement.
I'm now wondering why the hell I bothered participating in this list
again.
Mic
Mic
Mic: Redneck? I don't think so, unless rednecks usually ride in a
centered, balanced Classical position...
Karen: Do I really NEED to post the links to the same pictures we posted
maybe three months ago?
Judy: Yes, that would be interesting.
Ok, Judy, here are a few. These are some
Isn't there a video of him doing what he called a dressage demo at EA?
I saw a private one that someone (can't remember who) made, but I don't know
of a publicly available one. Let's just say he was saying one thing and
doing another. I wasn't impressed. He is a kid when it comes to
Oh, thanks for that Judy. You have never seen my horses, or me riding
in person. You are not qualified to make that judgement.
Was that directed at you, Mic? I just thought she was making a point to
counter what someone else said, claiming to be experienced after owning and
boarding a horse
Before heading onto the oval track
he spent about 15 minutes in the centre doing a dressage-type display.
I would love to see it!
Judy
http://icehorses.net
http://clickryder.com
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 14:26:29 -0400, you wrote:
Ok, Judy, here are a few. These are some classical-redneck
pictures...but not Classical Riding:
But even you have to agree that on his website, his position is good.
How many teachers do you know who are crap at doing, but great at
teaching? I know
I think you read something into it, Mic, that wasn't there.
Did I? Your reply to my comment about owning horses for 34 years was
length of time of owning horses is not an indication of being
a horseman.
Please tell me how I misread it.
The comment in full:
People can own horses all their
On Mon, Sep 03, 2007 at 09:48:44AM -0600, Robyn Schulze wrote:
i'm neither a beginner horsewoman nor, after a year, a new owner.
Umm, I'd say that you are indeed a new horse owner, in my book. I
believe I can say that, as I am not a new horse owner, having owned
horses for 15 years, and
On Mon, Sep 03, 2007 at 01:28:47PM -0400, Karen Thomas wrote:
http://www.gudmar.com/index.php?option=com_contenttask=categorysectionid=8
id=26Itemid=53
Yeah, and a person can put whatever they want on their own website. How
the person actually rides is sometimes quite another. Unless
On Mon, Sep 03, 2007 at 10:55:12AM -0600, Robyn Schulze wrote:
And I've
heard so many people say that when they owned horses that they boarded, they
had a whole 'nuther wave of being a newbie to go through once they brought
their horse home. Dealing with ALL the decisions of horse
Hi Judy,
What would an icelandic-style rider and trainer do with a big horse?
Actually we had two young trainers - male and female here about 12 years ago
they were also at my sister Susan's farm when she was in Ontario. At the
time Susan was riding at the Royal Winter Fair and one of the
... and I both keep horses at home and board. I think it is probably easier
to have them at home because I can monitor them by looking out a window.
I'm probably an atypical boarder because I feed my own horse (at a full care
facility) twice a day and bring him into his pen from pasture every
--- Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Isn't there a video of him doing what he called a dressage
demo at EA?
I saw a private one that someone (can't remember who) made, but I
don't know
of a publicly available one. Let's just say he was saying one
thing and
doing another.
i also owned and rode horses as a child and teen; i'm a recycled rider
after twenty years between. sum toto i have about ten years of riding
behind me, and four of owning, one of which is owning stjarni. i've
also served a formal instructor's apprenticeship and passed a state
licensure
Hi Mic
He was part of the gala show, not the WC itself, so I assume was not
on video of the competition
At the German WC they did include some of the evening show when they made
the WC video , so maybe they will do the same thing depending on who is
putting the video together.
I did not know
On Sat, 1 Sep 2007 13:47:07 -0700, you wrote:
I broke my leg... well, the dogs did it. Our daughter and son brought their
dogs over, and the three boy dogs run and have a jolly time when they're
together, and they happened to ram into me.
Ouch! Hope it gets better soon.
Mic
Mic (Michelle)
Hi Mic Judy,
Oh, I agree - but that's also changing. You only have to look at
various websites from Iceland which now advertise horses which stand
still on a loose rein to be mounted, tolerate the rider flapping their
arms and legs etc. You would never have seen that 10 years ago.
When I
--- Robyn Hood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I would never consider getting on a horse,
especially one I don't know, without any rein contact.
Anything can happen.
That is very true, but I have to admit, I mount all my
horses with a loose rein. But I have spent a lot of
time with them standing
On 02/09/07, susan cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Not Judy, but I personally (in my small little world)
see two basic types: western on loose rein, and
english on heavy contact.
I work on my contact a lot. I think I have bad hands and I want to
develop hands that move with my horse.
I've
--- Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I agree with that. Proper handling is what I want in my
foalshowever if I had a choice to purchase a 5 year old with
improper handling, or one with very little to no handling, I
would
pick the later..at least I do not have to start off
--- Kim Morton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I find that if I politely and
softly push her head away from me, she stops. I let my horses come
close to me and there are some rules, no biting, no kicking, even
at
other horses when I am around, no pushing. They can be taught to
follow the
especially people who do not know a lot about horses, even some who do,
will treat foals almost like a big dog, forgetting that those foals will get
a lot bigger and stronger, very fast, and what you could do safely at 2
months old, you can not do at a year old..
How much does a
--- Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This sort of comment is just as much one of those myths as the
ones
that they need special saddles and bridles, they all tolt and
they can
carry 350lb people all day.
they always have had to have good brakes simply because of the
way
Hi Susan,
That is very true, but I have to admit, I mount all my
horses with a loose rein.
That may be fine on your own horse, as long as they are never stung or
startled by anything but I personally think it is an unsafe habit to mount
horses you don't know without holding the reins. They
On 9/1/07, Robyn Hood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Janice,
Any horse that won't be fly sprayed at ten years is a
horse that has gaps in ground training and some necessary handling was
skipped..
If you don't have flies and other biting bugs where you live then there may
not be a need for a
as a rider of an icelander-trained icelandic horse, i have to add
my
agreement to this. i actually *drop* contact to ask for some
transitions, such as tolt-walk, and stjarni's brakes are
excellent.
you do have to know this, though, and it's definitely not the way
all
american riders are
--- Robyn Hood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Mic Judy,
Oh, I agree - but that's also changing. You only have to look at
various websites from Iceland which now advertise horses which
stand
still on a loose rein to be mounted, tolerate the rider flapping
their
arms and legs etc. You
I know that Iceland is a very big place and not every body who is
Icelandic trains the same way.it would be like saying that all
Americans train the same way, that would be a ridiculous statement.
Iceland is about the size of Rockford, Illinois; less people than Honolulu!
relatively
honestly, in the end, the overimprinted horse and the horse never
handled have about an equal amount of problems/issues. I say that,
Judy says that, nobody listens. They just want to stick their horses
in a field and leave them alone so they will be like feral cats
instead of home raised
On 9/2/07, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I know that Iceland is a very big place and not every body who is
Icelandic trains the same way.it would be like saying that all Americans
train the same way, that would be a ridiculous statement.
Well... no. A very big place...? Have
I know that Iceland is a very big place and not every body who is
Icelandic trains the same way.it would be like saying that all
Americans train the same way, that would be a ridiculous statement.
Like that photo of the guy riding an icelandic horse doing the flying
pace with no
--- susan cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Not Judy, but I personally (in my small little world)
see two basic types: western on loose rein, and
english on heavy contact.
And while a lot of people
who are taught English talk about contact, what I
actually see is them balancing off the
--- Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
especially people who do not know a lot about horses, even
some who do,
will treat foals almost like a big dog, forgetting that those foals
will get
a lot bigger and stronger, very fast, and what you could do safely
at 2
months old, you can not
On Sun, Sep 02, 2007 at 06:33:51PM -0700, Judy Ryder wrote:
Iceland is about the size of Rockford, Illinois; less people than Honolulu!
relatively small in the scheme of things!
Not everyone trains the same, but if you look at the big picture, they have
a very small speck on the training
On Sun, Sep 02, 2007 at 08:39:44PM -0500, Janice McDonald wrote:
Like that photo of the guy riding an icelandic horse doing the flying
pace with no bridle and no reins and no saddle. That was awesome,
beautiful, mindboggling. But Pat Parelli and Satcie Westfall and Lynn
Palm have been doing
--- Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I know that Iceland is a very big place and not every body who
is
Icelandic trains the same way.it would be like saying that all
Americans
train the same way, that would be a ridiculous statement.
Well... no. A very big place...? Have
--- Janice McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Like that photo of the guy riding an icelandic horse doing the
flying
pace with no bridle and no reins and no saddle. That was awesome,
beautiful, mindboggling. But Pat Parelli and Satcie Westfall and
Lynn
Palm have been doing that for
On 9/2/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
and we stole it from the palouse, right? :)
--vicka
you always see indians in movies riding bareback but I have held
Indian hand carved and well worn wooden stirrups... they were really
large btw... like EZ rides only wooden and instead
On 9/2/07, Skye and Sally ~Fire Island [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ok guys I was talking about the physical size, not the amount of
people, but the Size of the island. And not everyone trains the same
way, anywhere, and especially here, which is why you should
understand that if we do not
--- Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I know that Iceland is a very big place and not every body who is
Icelandic trains the same way.it would be like saying that
all
Americans train the same way, that would be a ridiculous
statement.
Iceland is about the size of Rockford,
Hi Janice
But Pat Parelli and Satcie Westfall and
Lynn
Palm have been doing that for years and even judy on this list did
it
way before that guy. He probably stole it from us :) hey, we're
trendsetters! yay. maybe theres some other good stuff they can
learn
from us!
My sister Linda
Look at the videos and pictures, and it all pretty much looks the same.
your impression, however, does not agree with my experience of gudmar or
ebba. so i suspect there is either more variation than you perceive or
that your baseline is off somehow.
I have to trust my own eyes, my own
Hi
Like that photo of the guy riding an icelandic horse doing the
flying
pace with no bridle and no reins and no saddle.
It wasn't just that he rode the flying pace - I understand he rode walk,
trot, canter and tolt as well if I am not mistaken. Mic was there I think.
Bruno did a great job
You just can not put all of Iceland into a neat little cubical and
think that all of them train the same way...
But they do, Skye. Sorry, but there is very very little variation in how
they train, ride, handle horses.
If we were in Iceland, and only considered the trainers in Iceland, we
--- Janice McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 9/2/07, Skye and Sally ~Fire Island
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ok guys I was talking about the physical size, not the amount of
people, but the Size of the island. And not everyone trains the
same
way, anywhere, and especially here,
On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:30:19 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:
.however if I had a choice to purchase a 5 year old with
improper handling, or one with very little to no handling, I would
pick the later..at least I do not have to start off with
correcting bad habits.
Me too. It's easier to start with a
--- Mic Rushen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It's easier to start with a clean slate than a horse
that someone else has already messed up.
And that is exactly why I bought babies! Then I know
they have been handled correctly, and if I make a
mistake, it is on me.
Susan in NV
Nevermore Ranch
On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:35:11 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:
And that is exactly why I bought babies! Then I know
they have been handled correctly, and if I make a
mistake, it is on me.
That's a good idea, but having seen how much people can mess up babies
even before they are weaned (Oh it's just
Maybe there is no such as thing as over handling foals. Could it
boil down to correct handling or incorrect handling?
Amen!
Karen Thomas, NC
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5:21
Whoa! Wow how do you go from point A to point B in such a nasty
fashion sometimes Janice? I do not feel superior at all, so DO Not Put
words in my mouth via email.
Skye, SHEESH! You wrote This is a perfect example of why not to over
handle foals in my opinion.. And you don't think
Me too. It's easier to start with a clean slate than a horse that
someone else has already messed up.
There are infinitely many combinations in the middle though, and when we are
talking to intelligent, caring horsesmen, there's no reason to limit the
discussions to either extreme - as I think
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Mic Rushen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That's a good idea, but having seen how much people can mess up
babies
even before they are weaned (Oh it's just soo cute when he
nibbles/kicks/rears up and puts his feet on my shoulders - yuck)
it's
not
Oh well, I was going to stay out of this because I don't raise foals and
because we had the good fortune of buying two young Icelandic mares that
were apparently mostly well handled.
However, I once bought a very fancy Section A Welsh pony for my grandson.
I'd probably had horses for 35+ years
yes please, gimme a break too.
Janice--
yipie tie yie yo
On 9/1/07, Mic Rushen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That's a good idea, but having seen how much people can mess up babies
even before they are weaned (Oh it's just soo cute when he
nibbles/kicks/rears up and puts his feet on my shoulders - yuck) it's
not infallible.
Mic
yes and like
I have my A number one guy, my main horse jas, he was not taken from a
pasture til he was three and then abused for 30 days, dragged behind a
tractor, lashed in the face for spooking, beaten for being afraid.
Then I have my stonewall, orphaned foal, taken into the livingroom to
be bottle fed on
Hi Janice,
Any horse that won't be fly sprayed at ten years is a
horse that has gaps in ground training and some necessary handling was
skipped..
If you don't have flies and other biting bugs where you live then there may
not be a need for a horse to be fly sprayed. Just different perspective
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