Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Ferenc Kovacs wrote: > > > > On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 8:17 PM, Gustavo Lopes wrote: > >> I've opened the vote for the "remove calls from incompatible context" RFC: >> >> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/**incompat_ctx#vote >> >>

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 8:17 PM, Gustavo Lopes wrote: > I've opened the vote for the "remove calls from incompatible context" RFC: > > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/**incompat_ctx#vote > > -- > Gustavo Lopes > > -- > PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Ma

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context (with patch)

Attached should be a patch to illustrate the exception. (obviously needs some tests modified, or created) This removes the warning in the single situation where the calling scope and target scope share the same top level parent. eg. Traits without the baggage... I think this is a reasonable

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context (example of real usage that will break)

> > The fact that this use of PHP is documented in the manual as a feature > www.php.net/manual/en/**language.oop5.basic.php > > And mentions that it will elicit a E_STRICT error - does not indicate that > it would be DEPRECATED, I'm assuming th

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context (example of real usage that will break)

>> If addPreserveText() uses anything from Footer, it should not be called >> from TextRun, but if it does not, it should be in Section. > No, if it was in Section, all the child classes would have to override > it and throw errors. That results in quite a bit of pointless > boilerplate code to so

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context (example of real usage that will break)

Top posting as the discussion was going a bit off topic. (Yes there was a vote, but the rfc could do with some refinements.) This is an illustration of the proposed change to the RFC, and the absurdity of how trait's allow incompatible scopes, and give no similar warning Example1 - illustrat

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context (example of real usage that will break)

Hi! > I did a testable version in javascript the other day. - it's similar to > this.. Javascript is not really an OO language. It has objects, but it doesn't really follow or enforce any of OO paradigms. It's prototype-based, so things work differently there. > An almost secret vote, that as I

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context (example of real usage that will break)

Rebuttal inline... - and better solution at end... On Tuesday, January 29, 2013 01:46 PM, Stas Malyshev wrote: Hi! I've used this in other places, it's basically lightweight traits, and has always been perfectly valid code. There does not seem to be a clear justification for deprecating it oth

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Lester Caine wrote: > Gustavo Lopes wrote: > >> I've opened the vote for the "remove calls from incompatible context" RFC: >> >> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/**incompat_ctx#vote >> > > FINALLY realised why this was an itch

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

Gustavo Lopes wrote: I've opened the vote for the "remove calls from incompatible context" RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/incompat_ctx#vote FINALLY realised why this was an itch I had to scratch. Why just pick on one aspect of E_STRICT ? Surely the end point should be removing all of the 'advi

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context (example of real usage that will break)

On Monday 28 January 2013 21:46:27 Stas Malyshev wrote: > > I understand that there's a tendency to use OO as > a neat way to namespace global functions and autoload them, but that's > not how it is supposed to work. I've seen that sentiment against using static methods several times now, and it a

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context (example of real usage that will break)

Hi! > I've used this in other places, it's basically lightweight traits, and > has always been perfectly valid code. There does not seem to be a clear > justification for deprecating it other than, It's not the way 'some' > people like code to work... Well, I think the reason is that this code

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context (example of real usage that will break)

On Monday, January 28, 2013 11:30 PM, Zeev Suraski wrote: Alan, Can you explain why you think it's a major BC break? The RFC suggested that the BC break would be minimal and that the likelihood a lot of people used it is very low. If you think differently and share it it might put it in a dif

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

On Jan 28, 2013 8:41 PM, "Stas Malyshev" wrote: > > Hi! > > > If we introduced BC breaks other than those, then we'd to review them > > and see why they have been introduced. But one thing is clear: we do > > not allow BC breaks between 5.x and 5.x+1. > > We need a better definition of BC break th

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

Hi! > If we introduced BC breaks other than those, then we'd to review them > and see why they have been introduced. But one thing is clear: we do > not allow BC breaks between 5.x and 5.x+1. We need a better definition of BC break then. Is deprecating an existing feature BC break? Is adding a no

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

Lester, On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Lester Caine wrote: > I'm not going to go back and list the problems. E_STRICT errors DO cause > problems running legacy code. I've had plenty of white screens until > E_STRICT was switched back off in PHP5.4! Things that are just warnings in > PHP5.3. T

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Lester Caine wrote: > Ferenc Kovacs wrote: > >> >> Please Lester, could you stop pretending that E_STRICT errors will crash >> your >> application and kill all the kittens? >> There are a bunch of people (myself included) who tries to write E_STRICT >> free >> cod

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

Ferenc Kovacs wrote: Please Lester, could you stop pretending that E_STRICT errors will crash your application and kill all the kittens? There are a bunch of people (myself included) who tries to write E_STRICT free code so that our application is fast and bugfree? Yes, there are people who igno

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Pierre Joye wrote: > hi, > > On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 4:56 PM, Gustavo Lopes wrote: >> On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 16:45:43 +0100, Pierre Joye >> wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Zeev Suraski wrote: > > -Original Message- >>> >>> Can yo

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

hi, On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 4:56 PM, Gustavo Lopes wrote: > On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 16:45:43 +0100, Pierre Joye > wrote: > >> On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Zeev Suraski wrote: -Original Message- >> >> >>> Can you explain why you think it's a major BC break? The RFC suggested >

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 16:45:43 +0100, Pierre Joye wrote: On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Zeev Suraski wrote: -Original Message- Can you explain why you think it's a major BC break? The RFC suggested that the BC break would be minimal and that the likelihood a lot of people use

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Pierre Joye wrote: > On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 4:47 PM, Zeev Suraski wrote: > >> What does it mean then? That implementing this RFC waits for 6.0 or that >> it was invalid in the first place? > > Both, if the plan is to get that into 5.x. Let me clarify, in my pre

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 4:45 PM, Pierre Joye wrote: > hi Zeev, > > On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Zeev Suraski wrote: > >> -Original Message- > > > Can you explain why you think it's a major BC break? The RFC suggested > that > > the BC break would be minimal and that the likelihood a

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 4:47 PM, Zeev Suraski wrote: > What does it mean then? That implementing this RFC waits for 6.0 or that > it was invalid in the first place? Both, if the plan is to get that into 5.x. -- Pierre @pierrejoye -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To un

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Lester Caine wrote: > Ferenc Kovacs wrote: > >> >But this is a core php feature, for anyone who does not use traits We >>> >use this quite a bit, it may not be for purists, but it has worked >>> >perfectly for years. This is getting a bit silly, change for cha

RE: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

> -Original Message- > From: Pierre Joye [mailto:pierre@gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 5:46 PM > To: Zeev Suraski > Cc: Alan Knowles; Gustavo Lopes; PHP Internals > Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible > context &g

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

hi Zeev, On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Zeev Suraski wrote: >> -Original Message- > Can you explain why you think it's a major BC break? The RFC suggested that > the BC break would be minimal and that the likelihood a lot of people used > it is very low. If you think differently and

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

Ok, just checked the mailing list (and sorry for top-posting) July 31st. RFC announced Jul 31st - 6 or 7 mails at least one very negative, a couple for it. August 1,3,5,6 - 5 or 6 emails getting a bit off-topic. Jan 21st - call to vote (single email - no-one replied on list)... - got 15 +1 vot

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

Ferenc Kovacs wrote: >But this is a core php feature, for anyone who does not use traits We >use this quite a bit, it may not be for purists, but it has worked >perfectly for years. This is getting a bit silly, change for change sake > I've found this to be a huge wtf when you bump into,

RE: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

> -Original Message- > From: Alan Knowles [mailto:a...@roojs.com] > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 4:49 PM > To: Gustavo Lopes; PHP Internals; Alan Knowles > Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible > context > > I was trying to vot

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

On 30 July 2012 18:31, Gustavo Lopes wrote: > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/incompat_ctx > > An RFC for deprecating and removing $this from incompatible context. > > Comments are welcome. > > Gustavo, my apologies, the ORIGINAL mail did say a little more about it.

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

On 28 January 2013 14:49, Alan Knowles wrote: > I was trying to vote against, for what it's worth. > > It's a major bc break with no obvious value, and what appears to be 7 days > given to vote when every one is busy discussing a new property syntax. > See other thread by Zeev :) On 20 January

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Alan Knowles wrote: > I was trying to vote against, for what it's worth. > trying to re-open the vote and voting after Gustavo announced that the voting was closed? that's sounds a little bit weird. > > It's a major bc break with no obvious value, and what appe

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:49:26 +0100, Alan Knowles wrote: I was trying to vote against, for what it's worth. It's a major bc break with no obvious value, and what appears to be 7 days given to vote when every one is busy discussing a new property syntax. Traits is cute, but this was a amaz

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

I was trying to vote against, for what it's worth. It's a major bc break with no obvious value, and what appears to be 7 days given to vote when every one is busy discussing a new property syntax. Traits is cute, but this was a amazing feature of the PHP language, not obvious, but it's pretty s

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Alan Knowles wrote: > > Holy crap, how did you sneak this through.. > what do you mean by sneak? it was proposed and announced in the usual channels. > > my apologies for deleting the = vote, but i could not work out how to > revert it. > no problem, I've rest

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:17:21 +0100, Alan Knowles wrote: my apologies for deleting the = vote, but i could not work out how to revert it. No problem, the result is still available at https://wiki.php.net/rfc/incompat_ctx?rev=1359379541 I don't know want to know what you were trying to do,

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

Holy crap, how did you sneak this through.. my apologies for deleting the = vote, but i could not work out how to revert it. But this is a core php feature, for anyone who does not use traits We use this quite a bit, it may not be for purists, but it has worked perfectly for years. This is

Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Deprecate and remove calls from incompatible context

On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:17:05 +0100, Gustavo Lopes wrote: I've opened the vote for the "remove calls from incompatible context" RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/incompat_ctx#vote The RFC has been accepted unanimously. I'll implement it shortly. The change is trivial for 5.5 (change E_STRI