>Roman sandals after knee surgery? Hmmm... :)
Well, of course the full Merle Haggard reference to them was "Beads and Roman
sandals won't be seen." And then again, it's highly unlikely I'll ever be in
Muskogee, Oklahoma, at least not willingly.
Mike Tribby
Senior
list members) is this:
your discussions might be more fruitful if you managed to keep in mind that
just because other list members disagree with you it doesn't mean they are
drooling incompetents or arbitrary obstructionists. They might simply disagree
with you.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloge
ood fans, but not to
baseball statisticians.
"I think most catalogers would have no trouble seeing this line."
Of course you do.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
d for information about Clint Eastwood? I don't
think Ox Eckhardt ever appeared in national media talking to an empty chair
(but maybe he should have).
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
-O
Wotta boon! (The fact of IMDb already existing notwithstanding). And let's
extend this fantastic accomplishment to other areas of interest and inquiry,
too. How long until I can consult my local OPAC to find out who won the batting
title in the Pacific Coast League in 1932?
Mike T
adoption, its
backers avoiding the appearance of being heavy-handed is a ship that has long
ago sailed. And sunk.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
ho might like to see _all_ of
the rules when undertaking cataloging.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
ally find any of those used as GMD's on MARC from OCLC or LC."
Perhaps they're for local use with human catalog users. Quaint, huh?
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
at when
the accompanying material is something like a spinnin' disc we render its
measurment in "inches" unless some august body somewhere has defined "in" as a
symbol rather than an infernal abbreviation.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best
ning part of the sanctity of
FRBR, RDA, and for all I know the genetic code of the ancient masters. The
attitude that drives these responses from the true believers is as much a part
of the problem with moving ahead as anything else, maybe much more. It's hard
to have a useful discussion
words
"film" and "music" more frequently how could I have made this any clearer?
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
nces browsing and serendipitous discovery, but
isn't always essential. Perhaps relator codes could be added to older records
when the titles those records represent circulate.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
similar to how OpenURL works today, browser would
show faculty member which items in that list are available at the library. Thus
faculty member gets 1) needed information 2) link to library holdings, all in
one place."
>From me:
Yes! Exactly right.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality B
sers looking for stuff by and about current film
participants may be no more numerous than catalog users doing searches on D.W.
Griffith are today. Not that I think that's a good thing, just that it seems
probable.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's In
me very
interesting use cases that could show some real benefit from roles."
That's my gut feeling, too, and is also backed up by my personal experience. If
fully realized it would be a definite benefit for library patrons-- but it
still wouldn't replace other more dedicated sources.
Would any of the august panelists Judy listed have at least a passing interest
in the cataloging of popular music? Given the number of libraries with
circulating collections populated with popular music it might be wise to
include it in their deliberations.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
to be bad cataloging.
It's a bad tool for doing that, but righteous sentiment about avenging
cataloging "errors" seems to overwhelm that.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
unmitigated
glories of RDA enhancement, but perhaps you could be a little patient.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
From: Resource Description and A
I've
already talked to them. More than once. Well, I'm stumped.
Gad, I love this list.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
can afford to do, and isn't something that
gets done presently. If the rules are silent on inclusion of something like
this, many cataloging agencies, including national libraries, will not put it
in.
Perhaps one reason some listmembers are finding these discussions frustrating
is that w
t the information may not be included in
many records, and, as Jim pointed out, LC's and BIBCO's rules don't require
them to be.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
mation. Doesn't mean the catalog
couldn't support this kind of thing, just that as currently constituted it
might not be the optimum source.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
___
s. Is this another
aspect of RDA similar to how RDA is silent on display but has instructions that
designate displays in some fields?
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
BTW-- in my experience it is ridiculous to posit that library users other than
catalogers and our ilk do want to know technical terms and mechanisms to
conduct searches. By and large they just want their stuff.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
out the contents of the 300 field is along the lines of
"Centimeters? Why centimeters?" Y'know the USPS two-letter codes for states of
the United States are officially not abbreviations either: why not avail
ourselves of them? It's not like their defining agency is any mor
e's mots in My
Favorite Year.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
t to differing perceptions or degrees of stupidity.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
-Original Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:R
is view, so adding tasks that may be
mischaracterized as detail work doesn't enter into thoughts and requirements as
to output.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
-Original Message--
ional value can
and often is easily lost. Many of us stopped lamenting this a long time ago,
but was it valuable?"
Yes.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
27;ll
cheerfully defer to someone who purports to understand why RDA does anything
the way it does. In fact I'm surprised Thomas hasn't posted on this yet.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books
Finally an RDA question I feel fully qualified to answer:
>Is cataloger time important?
No, though RDA is hardly the only manifestation of this phenomenon. Thank you
for your time.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:
hing. Percpetion is still
important, and I guess we're debating the importance of the perception that
titles in all caps is a problem.
*(Apologies to Marie Antoinette. I know she didn't really say that--or at least
not in the manner it's sometimes suggested. Like the way I used it
s not a cataloging code<--->RDA is silent on display
continuum?
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
-Original Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Descri
lossary of Latin terms. Apparently these
bodybuilders are better equipped to search our information silos than library
users at large are.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
films.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
-Original Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Brenndorf
I (further) wrote:
>I worte:
I realize poor spelling is unlikely to further sully my reputation on this
list, but this is getting ridiculous.
Good night, ladies and gentlemen!
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...
I worte:
>In our practice titles with copyright dates but no explicit publicating date
>or distribution date constitute the majority of titles-
Publicating! Now I feel as if Friday has truly begun.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independ
tles-- and not by just a little. This seems to me to be largely a distinction
in search of a difference.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
as a 700 to the Thin Man movie
records. Of course I'd have to establish him first. And what of Toto? Should he
ultimately be traced in a 700 as Terry (Dog)-- and his heading in I, Toto
changed to a 600? He's billed as Toto, not Terry in Wizard of Oz...
Mike Tribby
Senior Catalo
uestions about the assumptions and decisions that lie behind specifics of RDA
are no longer to be questioned. At least here.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
-Original Message-
From: R
haps my belief that it
is not a done deal is faltering.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
>The questions above indicate that the questioner is missing the point of RDA
>entirely.
Of course they do. Has this list outlived its usefulness?
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
can't handle the 13-digit
ISBNs.
ILS vendors have been slow to add a lot of features over the years. How many
years did it take before they stopped using stopwords and started reading
non-filer indicators?
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
o be determined. Minds
haven't changed much one way or the other in a good long time, or so it would
seem from the online discussion.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
eading of my previous postings on this and other lists
might suggest a likely answer).
&
The heck I can't.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
ignificant and voluble
exceptions, that is.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
changed the
ending of the story beyond all recognition. Judgements about this sort of
thing change over time, even judgments made by the principals involved.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
creating the data, or as judged
>>appropriate by the cataloguer."
Thomas provides an iteration of what RDA says about information that may be
used in an authority record, but I think Gene's point has more to do with what
we _should_ include in an authority record rather than what vari
in books for which others have performed CIP, a
great many authors seem to think it means quotations from the Christian Bible.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
have been
complaining about the assumed cost of subscriptions to RDA for some time now.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
re held up until all cataloging agencies were in a
position to participate fully, no initiatives could ever be successfully
undertaken. When we get to the end of the adoption consideration process, it
will be interesting to see what suggestions are made for non-adopters, if any
are. So far it se
stic about that
path. So far we at QBI are leaning toward utilizing Mac's cheat sheets. We'll
know more if and when one of our customers adopts RDA. As I may have mentioned
before, we still have had absolutely no inquires about RDA from our customers,
yet we continue to sell cataloging
re I further "politicize" this
thread.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
>The following abbreviations continue to be used in collations:
>centimeters cm
>kilometersk
>metersm
>What have I missed?
The purehearts dunning you for deigning to call shortened terms for metric
measurements "abbreviations&quo
d if general interest in RDA doesn't happen
>until there are definite plans to implement it.
Indeed. Just as in politics it's hard to beat something with nothing, in this
case it's hard to make definite plans about indefinite initiatives.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Bo
An announcement went out on PUBLIB Monday morning for an RDA webinar: "ALCTS
webinar: RDA Ask-the Experts on February 17, 2011." So far there have been no
posts in reply. One can virtually feel the pulsating interest out there.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
T
often for its track record with complicated
or non-mainstream items. I'd still rate it as a bit more reliable than IMDb,
but prone to the same shortcomings.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
I'm still seeking the people who are
reportedly confused to distraction by common abbreviations like "etc." and
"ill.," so maybe I've been leading a more halcyon professional life than I
realized.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best o
letters at the start of the title (and
possibly at the start of each word) are _larger_ caps than the caps that make
up the rest of the title. I don't think my keyboard or my cataloging software
is capable of creating caps in different sizes in the same field, at least not
easily.
ents would help drive ILS improvements or
modernization.
Nah, probably not.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
-Original Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Desc
machine processing
And if it works for humanoids, too, so much the better? Maybe this is the crux
of the larger question.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
Would abbreviations constitute "a substitute vocabulary encoding scheme"?
Still waiting for the English translation,
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
bulary -- those should be check boxes or drop-downs. And don't
get me started on punctuation."
Sounds great. Why doesn't RDA reflect this then?
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
slough it off on the students in our copy cataloging module I might
not care.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
ose incredibly obtuse
abbreviations like "etc." or "ed." to spelled-out versions, too?
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
early--at
least in my estimation--on the side of RDA, but I don't think it's a done deal
at the national libraries. Which may not forestall my bitter complaints at
whatever decision is reached.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
the land.
Given the huge numbers of headings roaming around WorldCat without benefit of
authority records, I somehow doubt that authority control will be improved by
not having the rule of three-- except at LC where I believe they have already
decided against unlimited tracings. As will we if it
s always the possibilty of using notes
>that explain the choice of Date of publication (there is an example of a note
>for explaining probable dates in RDA 2.20.7.3).
And, eventually, there is also the possibility of taking a couple of hours to
create the simplest records. This is progress?
at another cataloger's desk in January of 2011.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
-Original Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailt
nor the arguments about how
>correctly to record the "facts".
Then I apologize to RDA. For this. Only.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
-Original Message-
From: Resourc
Wikipedia, or on Google when they encounter common definitions that they don't
recognize).
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
7;s the returns desk?
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
-Original Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:rd...@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On B
nough. Then we can all get to work
complaining of RDA's inadequacy and writing articles extolling the Next Big
Thing.
Monday, eh?
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
be running XP much longer. The software
vendor is "looking into" what to do about this. BTW-- when I asked what they
had planned for RDA implementation, the reply was "I'm not familiar with that."
A toast, then, to better days!
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality B
>Beyond the core elements, I would assume that anything is optional -- or at
>least subject to an application decision at some level.
Hmmm. Thanks for the clarification, John. I think my records for the test just
got a lot shorter.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The B
t past about not relying on LC for everything? If the rules allow
deviations in practice, deviations are sure to occur. Moreover, LC does _not_
prepare every authority record in the shared authority file.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Pre
Understood, but RDA is supposed to enable catalogers beyond LC's orbit to
create records that all can use. Sadly not every cataloging agency in the
bibliographic universe follows LC policy.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independe
" how does that achieve
anything other than confusion?
If confusion is our goal, I'm all for it at this point. But somehow I doubt
that's what we're pursuing here.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.
subfield b, however.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
-Original Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:rd...@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Be
>The more rules, the more time/expense. Little things add up. And we've got a
>LOT of little things.
At first blush, this seems an odd thing to be posted on an RDA list. Or maybe I
mean ironic.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Ind
for the scrap heap. There are competing priorities in
everything we do.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
-Original Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource
And I used the wrong form--"it's" rather than "its," too.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
-Original Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / R
As Maxine's post suggested, when a serial does finally publish it's last
volume, the number of volumes could be recorded in the record whether the
record is electronic, card, or liquid.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
a
keyword search would bring up the Danish version, too, though.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
-Original Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Ac
. IMNSHO, of course.
Reporting from Planet Weinheimer,
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
of LC
(among others) don't emphasize the obligatory nod to the tentative nature of
adoption underlines the suspicions being expressed. Of course one probably
needs to have a "suspicious mind" [ref. the Elvis Presley song Suspicious
Minds] to have these suspicions. I defintiely q
>"We've gone too far to turn back" doesn't do it for me.
Me either. How about "We've committed too much money to stop now"?
It may not be the most important consideration, but I'd be surprised if it's
not a consideration. A lot of time has collec
ose of attention to cataloging codes whether new or old.
2. And you're saying that there is at least one vendor currently working on an
ILS that will accommodate RDA right out of the box? Kudos to them.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
ion for many.
We have made the time to be involved in testing RDA. This is simply not
possible for many.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
who
seek change, I suppose. I do think it's clear that a groundswell of approval
has not ensued, but I'm not sure that indicates anything more than more
disinterest.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
adoption of RDA is not a
done deal. It gets a little hard to remember that given things like the
upcoming ALCTS forum regarding how libraries are preparing for RDA. The
obligatory nod to an open process is too often forgotten.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of Amer
>charging for it before it's even adopted or implemented is less than friendly
>or helpful!
But it is lean, mean, and a concrete manifestation of the often-invoked advice
to "run it like a business!"
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America&
ngredient for success.) Difficult to say, but the
response to the Toolkit, what little there was, has been lukewarm so far.
Will it serve users better? On this most important topic, we know next to
nothing."
Very well put.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America
> its necessary reliance on position in various Areas in order to resolve
> ambiquity is anathema to metadataists
Just one reason I prefer to think of myself as a metadadaist.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mail
Maybe it's a MACRo.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
-Original Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:rd...@listserv.lac-bac
>Who creates, houses, and maintains Work Authority records now? With
>identifiers in the form of accession numbers? Not really a different thing.
So LC, then? Anybody inform them of this? Have they committed to it?
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of Ame
>The place of the $a can, of course, be taken by a URI once work records
>exist, but who will create them?
Or house and maintain them?
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
So in RDA will the summary (MARC 520) and the TOC note (505) occupy the same
field and will that field be repeatable?
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
-Original Message-
From: Res
m automatically gets them.
And if the changes are not a fit for what the first cataloger's user community
needs?
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Best of America's Independent Presses
mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
Well, Troy, that's a dandy--if not exactly cost-saving--development for
libraries that use LC Classification. What about a Dewey-RDA interface?
[Caution! Sarcasm alert!] There are still a few Dewey collections out there,
you know.
Mike Tribby
Senior Cataloger
Quality Books Inc.
The Be
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