ior at formatting unquoted material but it's $60 a license. Better to
> use TB!'s internal editor. :)
*cough* vim *cough*. Free, kinda hard to get used to, but it amazingly
doesn't mangle my reflow as bad as TB! does. joe is the same way. JED, with
the appropriate script,
Saturday, January 15, 2000, 3:51:02 AM, Oleg wrote:
> That is almost exactly what I mean all this time. Just one more point. Steve
> states that if there will bie an option of using an external editor RitLabs
> will have more time to concentrate on mail-oriented features of TB! I stil
polite in return. That
means if a thread goes 2-3 messages with the other person being a clueless nit
they will get their nuts roasted, no questions asked. Sometimes a little heat
makes people listen when they oth
Hell, I don't even trim
half the time any more.
> Do you mean the awkwardly-worded checkbox "Do NOT use FROM name for
> REPLY-TO address" in Account/Properties/Templates/Replies? Or do you
> mean just turing off the from or to addresses in the Editor window
> under
there should even be a utility to set common
> options for multiple folders/accounts anyway. It gets more strenuous
> to do it manually on every account the more you have.
Tell me about it. :/
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm yo
, read the above as if I were sitting at the keyboard.
"I'd love to know how. I don't see a checkbox for it. Wait, I bet it is
another #$^#$^#$%ing macro."
*Steve now goes and actually checks the templates*
"Nope, a freaking checkbox this time. I wish RITLABS would
box for it. Wait, I bet it is
another #$^#$^$#%ing macro. Nope, a freaking checkbox this time. I wish
RITLABS would stop dicking around and do the configuration right. Jeez.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
buttons. I'm not saying remove the keyboard button but people, lots of 'em,
learn by what is available to the mouse. I honestly never thought of looking
under "special" for what is, to me, *just* a reply and should be in message.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm
t. You hit reply, not knowing that there is a reply-to
and now your message is going to Steve Lamb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I
t to? Nick Danger. ;)
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 | main connection t
Friday, January 14, 2000, 2:35:00 PM, Nick wrote:
> Okay, I don't know who you are or what you did with Steve but you have
> about 10 minutes to get out of there before I call the police!!!
Hey, I signed that one bucko. :P
> Are you advocating a feature to help out newbies
people don't display the reply-to in the header information (most clients
don't by default, people normally stick with defaults) someone could put a
reply-to in there and the person reply without knowing there is a reply-to
and, thus, not knowing there was a choice to be made.
> I
Friday, January 14, 2000, 1:35:54 PM, Andrew wrote:
> Oh, Steve. I don't believe my eyes - you propose to implement a
> prompt?! :) So that the program asks one more silly question each time
> I reply...
Of course. How many times have I said the program shouldn't assume
not going to test? Why test when you don't
know if there is something there to test? Catch-22.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 |
ey might want to test, right? :)
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 | main connect
Is there ever a changelog to go with the beta versions?
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switc
Friday, January 14, 2000, 9:37:13 AM, Marck wrote:
> over the pond and distorted into "Whoa Nellie", made memorable by
> Earthworm Jim et al.
Earthworm Jim? You mistake me for someone young there, fella. I remember
that phrase long before that video game character.
--
mail client I've used, anything
that I've used since the start. In fact, I'm not even using the same tools I
did a few years ago and, in some cases, a few months ago. However, through
all of that I've not had to learn several different things each time I changed
one part. In th
u ever got and
filtered elsewhere is in the inbox until you compress it? "Compress" here
means removing the entries marked "Deleted" from the database. All mail is
filed in the inbox *before* it is filtered. It is then filtered and, if
needed, marked as deleted.
--
Friday, January 14, 2000, 6:12:07 AM, Marck wrote:
CJT>> But Claudius, [snip] ...
> Whoa Neddy!
I thought it was "Nelly"? :/
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 | main conn
hit upon something.
Windows default editors: Notepad & edit (DOS).
Unix default editor (for the most part): vi
I think you might be on to something. :)
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343
er met a person whose *sole* use for an ASCII editor was /just/ email.
Januk's premise is faulty because of those two counts.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343
use they are distinctly separate applications.
> Version 2 of TB! seems to be on a monolithic road of development and
> this is not good considering it's prime userbase. As Steve rightly said,
> the userbase interested in the monolithic slant to development are
> already using freewa
ter. Separate parts is better. Monolithic is bad.
Why?
Choice. :)
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 | main connectio
Thursday, January 13, 2000, 1:11:27 PM, Alex wrote:
SL>> ... Explain. Might you actually be doing some filtering on server side?
> Not really on server side, just between server and TB!.
Again, explain.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm yo
he same thing in slightly different ways.
You have to learn the different capabilities, quirks and keys of each to work
effectively. There is something similar in Unix. Look at vi, nvi, vim,
elvis. All are "vi" editors. Noone would claim they are the same.
--
Steve C. Lamb
Thursday, January 13, 2000, 12:19:13 PM, Roel wrote:
> sorry, i meant control-f4, *not* shift-f4
Wow, never knew that was there. Would be better to have that as a
pulldown on the button than in the "special" menu.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I&
revent it for lists still set
REPLY-TO.
The optimal solution would be for the list to include another header for
list replies and then to get the email clients to use that header. However,
until that time comes having the computer not assume your intent upon a reply
and, instead, ask, to me is
Thursday, January 13, 2000, 10:25:48 AM, tracer wrote:
> Ok, Stefan... a minor cosmetic bug (g)
V, not F. Of course my rendering of my name in Esperanto is Stefan so I
guess I can live with it. ;)
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm
.
... Explain. Might you actually be doing some filtering on server side?
If so, my apologies for my assumptions.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 | main conne
Thursday, January 13, 2000, 9:56:09 AM, Urban wrote:
JA>> When you say automate, what exactly do you mean?
> I want to filter the messages without having to download them first.
That requires a bit of skullduggery with POP. With true IMAP it is a snap.
--
Stev
a web browser? :)
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 | main connectio
imes more that half of
> message). So it will not work.
This is your choice and does not invalidate the fact that messages, as
they come in, do have those headers and thus that letter. Besides, Date has
an e in it as well. That, too, is a required header and I doubt many people
he
t the client should prompt the user on which
address they want to send to with the default being the reply-to. This gives
the user the ability to chose which address (public or private in the case of
a mailing list) to use without having to go through other steps like using
reply-to-all and trim
designed for
RITLABS. To be fair, I do like most of the new icons. TB! is one of the
sexier clients I've had the pleasure to use. Just a few of the icons weren't
exactly thought out before they did it. The washed out, high-color, priority
envelopes is one such example. :)
--
in the standards they set, don't
adhere to standards regardless of them setting it or not.
I don't consider it a "standard" when the main reason it is standardized
is based solely on market share.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'
Thursday, January 13, 2000, 9:01:36 AM, Nick wrote:
> Good post Steve... I'm finally beginning to see your point on using an
> external editor. :o) However, what about us that are not comfortable with
> some of the Unix style editors you mention.
Which is perfectly understand
Thursday, January 13, 2000, 7:37:38 AM, Nick wrote:
> I agree with you to some extent Steve, but I find your response puzzling, as
> you seem to be one that strongly professes the use of Internet Standards.
Yup.
> In researching the subject a little, I find that RFC 2368 (at
Thursday, January 13, 2000, 6:49:35 AM, Alex wrote:
> Anotherworkaround--justsearchforstringlike
> "sdafadfkldjakladjfkdjfklsfjkljlasfjslfd" which should NOT present in
> message ;-))
Whoa, there it is. :P
--
Steve C. Lamb
; [good heavens, where did that rant come from? - not like me at all!]
"You have learned well, little one. But don't underestimate the /power/
of the Dark Side." -- Darth Lamb.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
e being forced to learn different editors and don't even know it.
> If not than TB! authors will still have to improve editor as well, but they
> will have to a
color version has
very distinct colors to it. The high color versions are very washed out and
hard to see. It is like trying to detect the difference between 255,200,200
and 205,200,200 from a base value of 200,200,200.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrin
all messages will have some common
headers in them. One of them is a Received header from each SMTP server.
^ ^ ^
Since the received header is always going to be there, e is always going
to be there. ;)
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'
Thursday, January 13, 2000, 1:54:16 AM, Andrew wrote:
> The other thing you learn from him is why Unix got stomped all over by
> Microsoft products. Steve has a pure Unix mindset: there is One Right
> Way to understand anything, and anyone who can't share it, even after
> being
hould mangle
our sigs for the inadequacies of another client.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 | mai
...
Let's compare. Which has been around longer? Calling an editor with a
command-line of what file you want to edit or calling an editor through DDE.
Case closed.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343
uments
that was false? Granted, a lot can configure it but what do they default to
and why?
Again, I'm not in the mood for your pissy nitpicking. I know you're more
intelligent than this and can clearly see the difference so, please, just drop
it now, ok?
--
Steve C
he uncountable time in the past 10 years.
Claudius pushed my buttons just right in his last message and I reacted.
I'm sorry for that.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 | m
the online community.
No, but I know it better than most.
> YOU are the only one that has problems with that one single mail.
No, I'm the only one who doesn't let crap like that pass.
SL>> Because the standard convention in the printed medium when quoting
SL>>
that vim supports it. So can DDE support
"normal" editors?
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 |
s. As for display, I've not been on a display that
has required dithering since 1990.
> And all this is NOT a monster, it's a reasonable download (the size of ACDC,
> practically).
Sounds like a monster to me. Because it has branched out into things
other than image view
Wednesday, January 12, 2000, 3:50:36 PM, Alexander wrote:
> To which one? You definitely *can* if your editor is WinEdt. Actually, I *do*
> use it with Pegasus for composing lengthy messages with TeX stuff.
Normal as in an editor which accepts a filename to edit.
--
Steve C
aking of Object Desktop aren't we?
If so Stardock did port a lot of OD over to Windows.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink
w (image viewer and more)
ACDeeCee.
> 4) WarpCenter (GUI enhancement: multiple desktops and such)
Powerbar.
> It's not a problem if one could use DDE. A simple script (not a program even)
> would help.
Can one do DDE to a "normal" editor?
--
Ste
Wednesday, January 12, 2000, 2:42:55 PM, Keith wrote:
> address without the prefix? (In other words, won't
> "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" work as well as "mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]" and be
> less confusing to non-techies?)
Yes. :)
--
Steve C. Lamb
Wednesday, January 12, 2000, 11:02:36 AM, Mark wrote:
> I really _don't_ want TB! to go get images from a website. If they add that
> functionality, I sure hope it's an option that you can enable or disable.
It is a security hole and should not be implemented.
--
n in the printed medium when quoting someone is
radically different
SL>> than here.
> Steve, what are you talking about? What convention? I can't believe
> this. 'Change is bad!'
The convention of the culture that you have entered. I cannot believe I
still have to
CNTL-SHIFT to
mark email that I want to *delete* leaving the mail I want to read alone.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343
dedicated
themselves to building nothing but a spell checker.
<http://metalab.unc.edu/kevina/kspell/>
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
Dn,
> Del. Works on all comprehensive editors I know (I don't use UNIX).
That is the CUA standard. It also is not deleting a line, it is marking
text and deleting text. There is no "delete line" in CUA.
delete line
dd - vim
d, down arrow - vim
c$ - vim
c, down arrow - vim
^Y - w
Wednesday, January 12, 2000, 1:37:36 AM, Stefan wrote:
> OK, you'll see it :-)
There's much more I'd rather see. However, I've made that abundantly
clear over the past few months.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrin
When people get a connection
they also, more often than not, get access to an SMTP server they can use.
Personally I have two servers my home and work machines can use to deliver
mail. If I ask some people I can up that to four. I don't need that on the
local machine.
--
Steve C.
Tuesday, January 11, 2000, 9:14:06 PM, tracer wrote:
> Steve, any idea what editors you have seen under windows which might
> do the job as external editors for the Bat??
Well, an editor which just edits plain text would work. As I've said, my
preference is for vim which is real
> want to send/save/discard the message?
It returns to the header dialog and lets you chose from there. You can
reedit, etc. It doesn't display the message, something I wish it did do just
for final confirmation.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm yo
eating the interfaces than reimplementing everything. That
is because I only need to learn one editor, one scripting language, one spell
checker, one email client. I can put them together to make something better
than if each of them tried to make everything else.
--
Steve C. Lamb
Tuesday, January 11, 2000, 9:58:18 PM, tracer wrote:
> Could the red part om the sideflaps be made darker?
Sure, turn off high-color icons. ;)
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 | main
add that I meant *visual* editor. I don't do ed, either. ;)
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 | main c
server.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the
On Tue, Jan 11, 2000 at 05:56:15PM -0800, Nick Andriash wrote:
> Steve also described what Agent had (which I mistakenly thought was
> scoring), and although I find that meets my needs at present, true
> "Scoring" sure does sound interesting. I might try X-News just to se
> Unless you use TeX;-) In this latter case, it *is* editing ASCII;-) Time to
> learn a bit?
Nope. As I said, I've seen books written in just VI. I didn't say what
other tools were used. In that particular case, TeX. IIRC it was one of the
O'Reilly books but which on
Tuesday, January 11, 2000, 1:18:39 PM, Claudius wrote:
> Hahaha, Steve -- thank you for your serious argumentation...
I am serious. As others have noted Lookout! is a personal information
manager which happens to have email functionality. It would be like calling
Netscape an email cli
ications. Furthermore what you want is provided in
dozens of other applications. So far only one other client has done IMAP
*half-right*, Lookout!.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 | m
TheBat! just blew out. :P
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
---+-
--
-
bugs" in the
standard. So any time anyone says "vi is everywhere" is really just fooling
themselves as, like other editors with a common definition but not a common
code base, there are variations in how the editor acts
ty from the editor, they will be directed to the external editor
dialog and encouraged to install a more powerful editor for their own uses.
This policy is similar to what the Pine development team has done with Pico.
Pico is usable, but they aren't out to compete with vim/jed/emacs development
day
planner, a kitchen sink
GMM>> All the other things are optional.
> Multiple accounts, to name just one. ;-)
Nope. Would you use a database program if you could only access one
database at a time?
"Accounts" in an email program are just databases.
--
Steve
:)
If mutt did multiple accounts as nicely as TB! did I'd use mutt, vim and
jspell and be utterly happy.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 | main connec
> different opinion.
Or constantly burnt the coffee. ;)
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
Tuesday, January 11, 2000, 10:57:24 AM, Thomas wrote:
> I agree with this. It will only your system down. Supposing you have
> an active virus-scanner running anyway, which you should. :-)
s/only your/only slow your/gi;# :)
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your pries
h
> a 4 week old child. Sleep deprivation.
... Wow, completely unintentional. Good catch. :)
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343
t is what we were discussion. In fact, we've
made it abundantly clear that we're talking ASCII editors.
> Sorry if this has been rehashed...but I'm just catching up on the
> thread! :)
Rehashed now. So far out of left field that you're chatting with the UFOs
in the
tion with the actual mail client, not an
> editor. Just my opinion.
Yes. I meant the named pipes as a way for the editor to signal to the MUA
when the editing is done without exiting the editor.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm yo
Tuesday, January 11, 2000, 9:33:52 AM, Allie wrote:
> Agreed. PMMail still takes responsibility for the headers etc. The
> editor only does the message body itself. What about templates though
> Steve? How will that be dealt with?
Separate out TB! from its editor.
. That way, I can keep an eye on the football game, and an eye
> on whatever else is on the web, withoutconstantly playing with
> windows.
Now do that with multiple applications where the root windows get in the
way and you'll begin to see why MDI is limiting.
--
Steve C. L
Tuesday, January 11, 2000, 6:33:38 AM, Allie wrote:
> you don't appeal that it be changed ... go elsewhere. :)
Nah, just make a non-MDI version. :P
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 |
cularly care for such beasts considering there is very little need for
them in either the unix or windows environments. Because of this I've never
investigated alternatives to just saving the bloody file and exiting.
--
Steve C
or to add those email specific items.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
---+-
--
of the
imagination.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the
good'.
You didn't make that clear. I read it that you was saying that TB! was A+
software engineering. I do not consider it so given that it doesn't even
conform to the standard CUA keys for marking
ea of how to implement
it in the email context. ;)
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to
Tuesday, January 11, 2000, 2:21:32 AM, Leif wrote:
> Steve, can you read? Which part of taking this off-line did you not
> understand?
The part where you didn't declare it a dead horse until now. *YOU* took
it offline and ended your remarks. I countered with a fin
more or less the same...
No, it is not. How about "what if we had a button for every message
opened in TB!." Wait... We do. Imagine that.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 | m
Tuesday, January 11, 2000, 1:00:08 AM, Januk wrote:
> Off Topic Question:
> Does anyone using Xnews know if and how you can download messages to
> read off-line?
No. See its manual.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm yo
they find it useful?
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
---+-
--
-
ay. That is why I said email and news are handled in two completely
separate ways.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'
ty is best left to be done properly. Don't give the users a
false sense of security with such a useless feature as presented in #1 or
waste processor time duplicating automatic effort as in #2.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
.
> I don't understand, Steve. I would understand if you'd say that you are
> talking about "lower levels" like NNTP vs. SMTP/POP protocol an the
> like. But why shouldn't I be able to do a full text search in a mail and
> a news "folder"? It is all a mat
because you only
have the close button, the maximize button and another button showing. This
is inexcusable.
Nah, not worth it. You still haven't come up with one advantage to MDI
while I have just given you two disadvantages. I think the issue is clear.
--
Steve C. Lamb
at the task bar
when the person using the task bar keeps it clean.
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343 | main connecti
Monday, January 10, 2000, 8:38:29 PM, Derek wrote:
> *ACK* You mean we agreed? ;)
From time to time, sad as it is, yes, people agree with me on things. :P
:)
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
ICQ: 5107343
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