In reply to Mark Iverson's message of Sat, 30 Apr 2011 19:25:37 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
>Yes, Piantelli's patent is certainly more "enabling" than Rossi's...
>
>I think the most interesting statement in the patent excerpt is:
>"...heating is needed to cause lattice vibrations, i.e. phonons, whose energ
In reply to Axil Axil's message of Sat, 30 Apr 2011 21:57:11 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>Beside iron, I cannot think of another element that can be detected using a
>gamma spectrum beside thorium.
>
He wouldn't allow use of the spectrometer while the device *was in operation*.
IMO that implies that either
In reply to Mark Iverson's message of Sat, 30 Apr 2011 12:15:46 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
>Can't remember if this has ever been discussed...
>Is the (industrial-grade?) hydrogen gas pure, or is there some D2 in it?
>
>If so, and its the D2 that is participating in the reaction, then wouldn't
>that affec
In reply to Akira Shirakawa's message of Sun, 01 May 2011 01:39:24 +0200:
Hi,
[snip]
>Even I know that oxygen and hydrogen are generated separately at each
>electrode, what I was wondering is if in a closed system (to build up
>pressure) there isn't risk of oxygen spillover where it isn't needed
The hydrogen is not ionized. I really think it's worth the time to
read another member's theory:
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/DeflationFusion2.pdf
T
On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 8:19 PM, Jones Beene wrote:
> "Raney nickel" was developed near Chattanooga TN -
I didn't know you Tennesseans made RN.
T
Yes, Piantelli's patent is certainly more "enabling" than Rossi's...
I think the most interesting statement in the patent excerpt is:
"...heating is needed to cause lattice vibrations, i.e. phonons, whose energy
is higher than a first
activation energy threshold, through non-linear and an harmon
*“The trigger plasma provides a copious supply of electrons so that anode
breakdown proceeds until ionized plasma connects the cathode and anode.”*
“Connects the cathode and anode” means “ionize the entire bulk of the
hydrogen atmosphere”
A hot cathode can ionize the entire bulk of the hydrog
On 2011-05-01 03:30, Axil Axil wrote:
[...]
*The H-ion is the active agent in both the Piantelli and Rossi process
which itself is just a variation of the Piantelli process.[...]
Wow.
I've never read Piantelli's patent (and now I realize I should have),
which is quite clear and descriptive. It
Beside iron, I cannot think of another element that can be detected using a
gamma spectrum beside thorium.
One of the rare earth elements can replace thorium as an electron emitter
but it would not last as long.
He might not be using thorium to be politically correct.
On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at
Rossi stated there are no radioactive elements put into the device.
Thorium is radioactive. Thorium oxide is too. I do not think he would lie about
putting no radioactive materials into the cell.
Although your idea is interesting (and allows for another element to be used),
it would mean Ross
I see no claim of a high rate of H- formation - where is it?
From: Axil Axil
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 6:30 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Old, but MAJOR clue about the Rossi CATALYST?
>From the 2010 Piantelli patent an important section is excerpted for your
convenie
*From the 2010 Piantelli patent an important section is excerpted for your
convenience as follows:*
* *
*[quote] The H- ions can be obtained by treating, under particular operative
conditions, hydrogen H2 molecules that have been previously adsorbed on said
transition metal surface, where the sem
Rossi said:
*“We know exactly why and how to make H after the injection of H2 and know
exactly how difficult is to use this radical before H2 recombination. This
is one of the most important parts of our know how. When we use terms, in
this field, we know exactly what we say.”*
* *
*It could n
From: Axil Axil
* The internal heater can generate a 1000 times more H- ions that any spill
over catalyst element could possible produce.
Where did you come up with that?
First, let's be clear. Spillover is NOT the negative ion. It is monatomic
and uncharged.
An internal heater c
Mining the asteroid belt would be easy if the powers that be would release the
gravity and inertia based technologies they have been keeping beyond top
secret.
These technologies exist, but are simply highly classified. With these
technologies mining the asteroid belt would be extremely easy. O
Rossi has specifically said that a couple of elements are used as catalysts. If
what you are saying is true (and I do not believe it is) it would make him a
total lying scum-bag. Of course, I don't think he is lying and he is telling us
the truth.
Also, the fact the system can self sustain with
Could you please share more with us about the WIPO document that is due out
soon?
Do you have any links to discussion about it?
This is the FIRST TIME I have heard about this.
Would this WIPO document cover the catalyst his system use? Rossi has stated
they have submitted a patent applicati
Rossi has specifically stated that one or two other elements are used as
catalysts with the nickel powder.
So while it is possible there is not a "spill over catalyst" there is some type
of catalyst mixed in with the nickel.
The truth cannot be that he has lied repeatedly to the world on his
Rossi would never give the nickel catalyst to anyone if the “secret” could
be chemically deduced from the nickel powder.
The “secret” is not associated with the nickel powder.
Rossi said:
*“I understand you get fun, we don’t: we work on this in a factory totally
dedicated to this, and we a
-Original Message-
From: Akira Shirakawa
> Do you think the patent can be trusted? After all it's written in the
least useful possible way ...
Very observant, Akira.
You should hear good US patent attorneys lambast this document as some kind
of joke. This document could be a complete
On 2011-05-01 02:23, Axil Axil wrote:
As I stated before in the Cat-E patent, Rossi ash contains no element
heavier the zinc. Rossi has stated that he does not use precious metals
in the Cat-E.
Do you think the patent can be trusted? After all it's written in the
least useful possible way (pro
As I stated before in the Cat-E patent, Rossi ash contains no element
heavier the zinc. Rossi has stated that he does not use precious metals in
the Cat-E.
The logical conclusion is that that there is no spill over catalyst mixed in
with the nickel catalyst.
The source of hydrogen ionization
"Hydrogenation" is a term seen on many edible foods these days. It implies
spillover catalysis. It also implies that the maker of the product is too
cheap to use butter.
The process is commonly employed to reduce vegetable oils. Hydrogenation
typically constitutes the addition of atomic hydrogen t
Symantec Email Proxy deleted the following email message:
From: "Jones Beene"
To:
Subject: The butter connection to Rossi - hydrogenation
On 2011-05-01 01:34, Jones Beene wrote:
[...]
Even so, it is very likely that the Rossi breakthrough is a spillover catalyst
that gives far more than the 10x the effect of Arata/Zhang.
Interesting, thanks very much for the info. So in the end Rossi didn't
really reveal anything special, sinc
In reply to Wm. Scott Smith's message of Sat, 30 Apr 2011 10:24:03 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
>My point is, one must postulate a really exotic form of fusion to explain so
>little heat for so much tranmuted by-products
Please quantify this.
Regards,
Robin van Spaandonk
http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/P
In reply to OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson's message of Sat, 30 Apr 2011
10:19:49 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
>The only downside, what to do
>with all that extracted and unwanted internal grit! Ya gota park it
>somewhere!
You just place it in the already mined out portions. It will always be less than
On 2011-05-01 01:30, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
...surely, a DC electrolysis cell will only create Oxygen at one electrode and
only Hydrogen at the other? In short, it is quite simple to produce pure
Hydrogen?
Even I know that oxygen and hydrogen are generated separately at each
electrode, what
In reply to OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson's message of Sat, 30 Apr 2011
10:19:49 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
>I also have serious reservations about mining the asteroids out in the
>asteroid belt, for similar reasons: Surface mining operations would kick of
>considerable grit. Expelled grit would fly
In reply to OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson's message of Sat, 30 Apr 2011
10:19:49 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
>I don't like the idea of parking imported asteroids in near-earth orbit
>either. After mining operations started (especially if operations focus on
>surface mining) this would likely result in
-Original Message-
From: Akira Shirakawa
> That is a confirmation of what Focardi hinted in his latest radio
interview [1]: that the catalyst "might be something" that improves
adsorption of atomic hydrogen rather than that of molecular hydrogen.
In essence this is what a "spillover
In reply to OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson's message of Sat, 30 Apr 2011
10:19:49 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
>Aiming nickel laden asteroids directly at Earth would IMO be a horrible
>suggestion, even if each asteroid was strategically slowed down to a less
>threatening reentry speed, even if engineeri
In reply to Akira Shirakawa's message of Sat, 30 Apr 2011 23:54:10 +0200:
Hi,
[snip]
>2) How is an internal reactor pressure of 20-25 bars achieved by using
>electrolysis in that way?
Electrolysis can actually produce very high pressures. Much higher than those
required here.
>
>3) Isn't hydrog
In reply to Akira Shirakawa's message of Sat, 30 Apr 2011 23:54:10 +0200:
Hi,
[snip]
>1) Using electrolysis would also "poison" the cell with oxygen (even if
>minimally in the best case, with good separation). We know that oxygen
...surely, a DC electrolysis cell will only create Oxygen at one
Whew!
T
On 2011-05-01 00:43, noone noone wrote:
Has anyone read this before? It was posted on the Rossi blog a long time
ago. I think it is a big clue about the function of the catalyst.
Also, please don't run up to his blog and suggest he delete it to
protect his IP. The world needs all the info they c
Has anyone read this before? It was posted on the Rossi blog a long time ago. I
think it is a big clue about the function of the catalyst.
Also, please don't run up to his blog and suggest he delete it to protect his
IP. The world needs all the info they can get so this technology can be
replic
ratio of D2 to H2 in gaseous hydrogen:
1 in 5400 (NIST)
ratio of deuterium to hydrogen in sea water:
1 in 6400 (wikipedia)
with only slight variations between most natural waters.
Hmmm, close enough to be a cause/effect relationship?
-Mark
_
From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedroth
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473
Bjorn Genborg
April 29th, 2011 at 10:02 AM
Dear Mr.Rossi;
Question 1:
What would you consider being the worst “showstopper” for you and your
invention? I mean, what do you consider being the biggest risk/drawback that
could happen? For example:
On 2011-04-30 23:37, Jed Rothwell wrote:
I have been wondering about this. My guess is that Rossi means his
device uses gas-loaded cold fusion, rather than the original
Fleischmann-Pons electrolysis loading.
I agree that here Rossi probably means that.
The method of producing hydrogen outside
But if you start out with pure water (H2O, w/o any D2O) and generate the
hydrogen gas via
electrolysis, then the gas would be pure hypothetically speaking of course.
-Mark
_
From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 1:19 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo
Akira Shirakawa wrote:
> So perhaps Focardi mistook (maybe "intentionally") that with some kind of
> electrolysis in his last radio interview [1]? He said that Rossi used
> electrolysis to generate hydrogen on-the-fly for his E-Cat reactors . . .
> [2] http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.co
It would be good to bring some asteroids to the space elevator, rather than
mining them and bringing only the ore, because you need a counter-weight
beyond GSO.
- Jed
I would like to reset the tenor of this recent discussion - back towards our
jointly shared goal on this forum of finding the truth about this important
breakthrough of A. Rossi.
I have come down too hard on Jed, who we all know is articulate and bright
and seldom this wrong. However, there com
This very interesting paper
http://astro1.panet.utoledo.edu/~srf/isotopes/li1.pdf is all about isotope
ratios varying from region to region.
Sent from my iPhone.
On Apr 30, 2011, at 15:56, "Jones Beene" wrote:
> From: Jed Rothwell
>
>
>
>
>
> Ø Anyone reviewing the astronomical da
On 2011-04-30 20:34, Axil Axil wrote:
It is this internal heater that forms the H- ions (like a cathode)
needed to make the Rossi reaction function so productively. This
internal heater acts as a spill over catalyst to create H- ions. Rossi
calls this his secret catalyst.
Also, this is why you
I read on some blog three days ago that I can't remember the URL of that
some knowledgeable person said that D2 poisons the reaction -- maybe that's
the secret.
-Original Message-
From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 1:19 PM
To: vortex-l@e
Mark Iverson wrote:
Can't remember if this has ever been discussed...
> Is the (industrial-grade?) hydrogen gas pure, or is there some D2 in it?
>
There is always the natural abundance of D2 in ordinary H2. It is 1 part in
5,400 according to NIST.
You would have to go to a lot of trouble to re
Jones Beene wrote:
> It must have been lost in cyberspace for a day.
>
>
>
> In any event, you have not come up with an effective response – one that
> does not involve something Rossi ‘said’ …
>
Actually, it involves:
1. What Rossi said.
2. What Levi et al. observed on the outside of the cel
Apparently you failed to notice the date of that post. Yesterday.
It must have been lost in cyberspace for a day.
In any event, you have not come up with an effective response - one that
does not involve something Rossi 'said' . since essentially that makes it
irrelevant for the obvious rea
From: Jed Rothwell
* Anyone reviewing the astronomical data on isotopes, going back to the
1940s, would know that is wrong.
JB: You must have gone absolutely NUTS. You are so completely wrong that you
must have no understanding of this subject at all. What data?
* JR: See the work of
From: Jed Rothwell
Jones Beene wrote:
Their statement is either senile or idiotic, take your pick. Copper
migration is well known, and no lucid physicist misses this point. Kullander
misses it. Is he senile or stupid?
> JR: I do not think that this much copper can migrate through stainless
Jones Beene wrote:
> > JR: I do not think that this much copper can migrate through stainless
> steel, so I doubt that can explain the presence of the copper.
>
>
You did read the patent application, no?
>
> Direct quote from Publication number: US 2011/0005506 A1 Filing date: Aug
> 4,
> 2009 "A
From: Jed Rothwell
Jones Beene wrote:
Their statement is either senile or idiotic, take your pick. Copper
migration is well known, and no lucid physicist misses this point. Kullander
misses it. Is he senile or stupid?
> JR: I do not think that this much copper can migrate through stainless
stee
Can't remember if this has ever been discussed...
Is the (industrial-grade?) hydrogen gas pure, or is there some D2 in it?
If so, and its the D2 that is participating in the reaction, then wouldn't that
affect the expected
reaction products and isotope ratios?
-Mark
Jones Beene wrote:
>
> Ø Anyone reviewing the astronomical data on isotopes, going back to the
> 1940s, would know that is wrong.
>
>
>
> You must have gone absolutely NUTS. You are so completely wrong that you
> must have no understanding of this subject at all. What data?
>
See the work of To
“I do not think it should be called a cathode, since there is no anode as
far as I know.”
It is this internal heater that forms the H- ions (like a cathode) needed to
make the Rossi reaction function so productively. This internal heater acts
as a spill over catalyst to create H- ions. Rossi ca
From: Jed Rothwell
* You proposed a preposterous theory that different super-nova produce
elements different isotopic ratios.
This is not a theory. It is known fact. It is not my proposal. It is seen
every day in cosmology. Every supernova is different and even in any one,
like the one t
Regarding this micro-super-nova, note that I said this is "improbable"
meaning I do not believe it. I entertain the hypothesis, which Beene finds
entertaining. So far, three improbable ideas have been proposed:
1. Cu amounting to 10% of the cell volume migrates in through stainless
steel walls. Pr
"Ah. I guess that makes sense. So there is gas between the heater and the
powder surface?"
Hydrogen at 20 bar give or take.
On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> Axil Axil wrote:
>
> The internal heater (cathode) must be placed at a precise distance from
>> the surface of the
Axil Axil wrote:
The internal heater (cathode) must be placed at a precise distance from the
> surface of the catalytic powder to maintain the correct electrostatic and
> heat gradient in the hydrogen gas (*vis*'*-à-vis' * H- , H2). This
> distance is determined experimentally.
>
Ah. I guess tha
Added thought follows:
You should consider the design of the Rossi reaction vessel analogous to a
vacuum tube, with the cathode (internal heater) placed at a precise distance
from the grid (reaction vessel wall).
On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Axil Axil wrote:
> The internal heater (
The internal heater (cathode) must be placed at a precise distance from the
surface of the catalytic powder to maintain the correct electrostatic and
heat gradient in the hydrogen gas (*vis*'*-à-vis' * H- , H2). This distance
is determined experimentally.
On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Je
Axil Axil wrote:
Rossi has stated that the amount of catalyst used in the one liter Reaction
> vessel is 100 grams. At a density of 3 grams per cm3, the catalyst comsums
> 33 cm3 of volume that is 3% of the total volume of the 1000 cm3 RV.
>
>
>
> 3% of unfixed powder would fall in a thin line on
Jones Beene wrote:
> OMG I going to be sick … with laughter.
>
>
>
> This is much better than SNL ever was ….
>
>
> Cough, cough … yup it’s gotta be that micro-super-nova, [slaps forehead]
> how could we have missed it !!
>
We didn't miss it. It was discussed here at length. You proposed a
pr
Rossi has stated that the amount of catalyst used in the one liter Reaction
vessel is 100 grams. At a density of 3 grams per cm3, the catalyst comsums
33 cm3 of volume that is 3% of the total volume of the 1000 cm3 RV.
3% of unfixed powder would fall in a thin line on the bottom of the RV.
O
Harry Veeder wrote:
> In another post you said Levi will soon get to see inside the cell.
> I didn't think Rossi would let anyone (except those involved in the
> manufacturing?)see
> inside a cell until his patent was granted. Does this mean he expects his
> patent
> will
> be granted soon?
>
H
Axil Axil wrote:
Unless the catalyst evenly covers the inside surface of the reaction vessel
> (RV) evenly, the heat transfer to the water on the outside surface would be
> uneven, and inefficient.
>
In the Arata DS cathode devices, the powder was packed in tightly, so it
covered the inside surf
Unless the catalyst evenly covers the inside surface of the reaction vessel
(RV) evenly, the heat transfer to the water on the outside surface would be
uneven, and inefficient. When the powder fell to the bottom of the RV
through the action of gravity, a damaging hot spot would form on the bottom
o
Doesn't everything have trace amount, at the very least, of many other things.
Even assuming there really is Fusion Bi-Products, I don't see how they would be
distinguishable from trace amounts of the same isotopes that are there, anyway.
When I worked at Johnson Mathey, more than anything, we
Axil Axil wrote:
> To start out with, the Catalyst is initially afixed to the walls of the
> stainless steel reaction vessel.
>
>
>
> To remove the ash for analysis, the ash must be abraded away from the walls
> of the stainless steel vessel by a mechanical process. A reamer, sander, or
> some o
OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson wrote:
Could such
> reentry operations, particularly if performed on a massive scale contribute
> to unnecessary atmospheric pollution and/or other environmental hazards?
>
Bad idea.
>
> I don't like the idea of parking imported asteroids in near-earth orbit
At this point, the amount and balance of the elements in the Rossi ash
cannot be determined.
IMHO, Rossi can’t tell how much nickel or hydrogen is used, consumed, or
transmuted in his reactor because of the large amount of iron (and other
undocumented elements) that are produced by erosion from
Jones Beene wrote:
> However, there are much larger deposits called laterites which are lower
> grade, and seldom mined due to comparative cost.
>
I do not know about nickel, but some types of ore are not mined because it
takes a lot of energy to mine and separate the ore. With cold fusion, the
-Original Message-
From: OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson
I would love to hear various opinions on the matter of available supplies of
Nickel, particularly pertaining to the economy of actually mining the
element. How realistic of a "conservative" prediction is the 100 year
prediction?
Robin recently brought up an important speculative issue pertaining to the
available supply of nickel on our planet. If one assumes a worst case
scenario it's possible we might only have a 100 year supply. [For the sake
of argument, let's temporarily remove the premise of mining the asteroid
belt f
And now, let's add back in the premise of mining the asteroid belt for
virtually unlimited supplies of nickel! What would be the safest way to get
those supplies back to Earth!
Aiming nickel laden asteroids directly at Earth would IMO be a horrible
suggestion, even if each asteroid was strategical
ScottWm. Scott Smith
Re-Read: Fran's Clearest & Best Documented Statement:
I don’t think exotic nuclear reactions are behind the missing Gamma radiation
but rather our understanding of catalytic action and the theory of Casimir
effect. Presently we assume the vacuum fluctuations in Casimir effe
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-04-previously-unaccounted-mechanism-cell.html
(PhysOrg.com) -- The long running debate on whether cell phones are capable of
damaging human tissue and causing health problems received new fuel from a
paper
published at arXiv by theoretical biologist Bill Bruno f
Not a fair comparison, it does not include fuel to run continuosly at
that power for 6 months.
2011/4/30 Hoyt A. Stearns Jr. :
>
>
> A GE90 turbofan engine, which has the highest power to weight ratio I've
> found provides about 9000 kW/ton of weight.
>
> Best lithium ion battery:
> 19387 kW/ton o
I added my comment below to -69 comments to Is the Rossi energy amplifier
the first pico-chemical reactor?
.Jacques Dufour, I don't think exotic nuclear reactions are behind
the missing Gamma radiation but rather our understanding of catalytic action
and the theory of Casimir effect.
On 2011-04-30 15:01, Michele Comitini wrote:
I would have said 0.5MW/ton
Whoops, of course you're right!
It's 0.5 MW/ton.
Yet another case of my fingers typing faster than my mind thinks.
S.A.
>
> * * *
>
> So, In short:
> - Power plant volume: 3m x 2m x 2m = 12m3
> - Total weight: 2 metric tons
> - Module thermal power density: 2 kW/liter
> - Derived plant power density (thermal): 0.0833 kW/liter
> - Derived plant specific power (thermal): 0.5 kW/ton (metric)
>
I would have said 0.5MW/t
A GE90 turbofan engine, which has the highest power to weight ratio I've
found provides about 9000 kW/ton of weight.
Best lithium ion battery:
19387 kW/ton of weight
_ from wikipedia
GE90-115B Brayton turbofan jet engine[14][15] 83,164 kW 111,526 hp
10.0
kW/kg 6.10 hp/lb
On 2011-04-29 02:32, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Rossi never ceases to amaze me! There have not been this many cold
fusion reactors in operation since Stan and Martin were open for
business in Nice, France, and they ran 64 cells at a time. And those
were only ~100 W each.
Partially unrelated with the O
On 2011-04-30 05:07, Axil Axil wrote:
As documented in the Cat-E patent, Rossi ash contains no element heavier
the zinc. I have also looked at the waste documented in publically
available spectrographs that have been produced by the Piantelli’s
process and have not seen heavy elements there eithe
On 2011-04-30 04:44, Rich Murray wrote:
Uh, so far all known magnets have two poles and attract each other,
unless held in a lattice that confines them strongly in a repulsive pattern.
On the nanoscale, this would store huge amounts of energy.
You're absolutely right here, of course.
I regret
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