Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 7:52 AM, Joshua Cude wrote: > On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 12:27 AM, Harry Veeder wrote: > >> >> >> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 2:58 AM, Joshua Cude wrote: >> >>> >>> But I think you misunderstood. I was not referring to new science >>> theories there. I was saying that it's common s

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

Message- From: Joshua Cude To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 3:53 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 1:36 PM, David Roberson wrote: This is a good start Josh. I think I can explain that to you since you seem to be a pretty

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

puppy operates and I would like to be there when that happens! Dave -Original Message- From: Joshua Cude To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 11:38 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 4:10 PM, David Roberson wrote: Eric

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 1:36 PM, David Roberson wrote: > This is a good start Josh. I think I can explain that to you since you > seem to be a pretty sharp guy. > Thank you Mr Roberson for that kind compliment. Unfortunately it also takes an explanation that is realistic and a sharp guy to e

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 4:10 PM, David Roberson wrote: > Eric, > > Model 1 appears to be more in line with what I suspect is happening > except for the explanation of the lack of external heat for control issue. > You need to consider that the peak heat power being generated inside the > core i

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 3:22 PM, David Roberson wrote: > Eric, > > The resistive heating requirement is to be able to reverse the > temperature excursion at the proper time by removing the extra input. > Constant heat input will result in the destruction of the device when > useful output power

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Eric Walker wrote: > There is a third possibility as well. The reaction is localized, and it > depends upon an elevated temperature to kick off. But the local region is > destroyed by the reaction, so you have apply heat once more to initiate the > reaction in ot

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Eric Walker wrote: > On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 3:54 AM, Joshua Cude wrote: > > But the ecat just uses electricity to make heat. So if the ecat already >> makes heat, it should self-sustain on that. Like combustion. >> > > I passed over this point too quickly. One qu

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 8:58 AM, Eric Walker wrote: > On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 3:51 AM, Joshua Cude wrote: > > No, you don't. Plenty of ICEs (outboards, motorcycles) run without >> batteries. Car engines would run without batteries too, unless they use >> some kind of electronic fault detection tha

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 12:27 AM, Harry Veeder wrote: > > > On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 2:58 AM, Joshua Cude wrote: > >> >> But I think you misunderstood. I was not referring to new science >> theories there. I was saying that it's common sense that if Rossi's claims >> were being accepted by the majo

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 8:57 AM, Jones Beene wrote: > ** > > Yes it was a poor analogy, but so what? Cude’s analysis is wrong no matter > how much he obfuscates and by jumping on a poor analogy – he does not gain > credibility. > > ** > Which analogy is that? I was suggesting there was no

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 8:08 AM, David Roberson wrote: > Josh, once you understand how the ECAT uses heat for control you will > realize that the heat can not be applied continuously. Well, you're gonna have to explain it if you expect me to understand it. And then you're gonna have to explain

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 2:25 PM, David Roberson wrote: > Maybe we are making headway in this discussion. Can I assume that you are > now saying that the hot cat can actually produce heat by some unknown > process? So far it is not clear that you accept this premise. > > For heaven's sake. You

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 1:13 PM, David Roberson wrote: > I am attempting to keep you form getting banned since I want to use you to > clear up a number of issues. It is hoped that you will go back to the > other skeptics and then set them straight. > > > Garbage. You don't need anyone else to

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 1:11 PM, David Roberson wrote: > No problem, I will meet you here in a couple of years and we can compare > notes. > Good, but I was hoping you'd be able to tell us now if you might get a little skeptical if the hot cat has a similar fate that the steam cat has seen in t

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Eric Walker wrote: > Giving Rossi the benefit of the doubt, the fact that an > external stimulus is required in the form of resistance heating (also heat, > as has been pointed out), this seems to indicate that one of two phenomena, > or both, would need to be occu

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 2:59 PM, David Roberson wrote: I am afraid there is not much more that we can do beyond constructing a > model without much more extensive data from Rossi. > Perhaps. But I think we can say that given what we know about the need for the control system and what we've seen

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

d for smoothing the internal temperatures. I am afraid there is not much more that we can do beyond constructing a model without much more extensive data from Rossi. Dave -Original Message- From: Eric Walker To: vortex-l Sent: Sun, Jun 2, 2013 5:22 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

e remains off for a longer time while the high temperature lingers. Does this help to explain the operation according to my model? Dave -Original Message- From: Eric Walker To: vortex-l Sent: Sun, Jun 2, 2013 4:39 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigatio

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 2:10 PM, David Roberson wrote: Does this help to explain the operation according to my model? > Yes. But I think your SPICE model is working at a higher level than what I was describing. Your model is looking at the thermodynamics of the system as a whole, and when you t

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

while the high temperature lingers. Does this help to explain the operation according to my model? Dave -Original Message- From: Eric Walker To: vortex-l Sent: Sun, Jun 2, 2013 4:39 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 1:22

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

Walker To: vortex-l Sent: Sun, Jun 2, 2013 4:39 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 1:22 PM, David Roberson wrote: The resistive heating requirement is to be able to reverse the temperature excursion at the proper time by removing

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 1:22 PM, David Roberson wrote: The resistive heating requirement is to be able to reverse the temperature > excursion at the proper time by removing the extra input. Constant heat > input will result in the destruction of the device when useful output power > is generated.

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

Walker To: vortex-l Sent: Sun, Jun 2, 2013 2:39 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 3:54 AM, Joshua Cude wrote: But the ecat just uses electricity to make heat. So if the ecat already makes heat, it should self-sustain on that

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

I wrote: > >- The general area of the reaction is somewhat localized, and the >normal thermal gradient that would lead heat to dissipate from that >location must be countered from outside of it by the resistance heaters, so >that sufficient heat is retained in that area. > > There

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 3:54 AM, Joshua Cude wrote: But the ecat just uses electricity to make heat. So if the ecat already > makes heat, it should self-sustain on that. Like combustion. > I passed over this point too quickly. One question is why in Rossi's device the heat generated by the react

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 6:57 AM, Jones Beene wrote: But the ecat just uses electricity to make heat. So if the ecat already > makes heat, it should self-sustain on that. Like combustion. > > ** ** > > An ICE is self-sustaining. The ecat needs external power. They're > different. Your example

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 3:51 AM, Joshua Cude wrote: No, you don't. Plenty of ICEs (outboards, motorcycles) run without > batteries. Car engines would run without batteries too, unless they use > some kind of electronic fault detection that shuts it down without a > battery. But the spark doesn't n

RE: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

From: Joshua Cude Eric Walker wrote: the analogy only goes so far, in that it is harder in Rossi's case to recapture the heat and channel it back into the secondary source. But the ecat just uses electricity to make heat. So if the ecat already makes heat, it should self-sustain on

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

input to the ECAT results in thermal run away. Dave -Original Message- From: Joshua Cude To: vortex-l Sent: Sat, Jun 1, 2013 6:54 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Eric Walker wrote: the analogy only

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Eric Walker wrote: > > the analogy only goes so far, in that it is harder in Rossi's case to > recapture the heat and channel it back into the secondary source. > > But the ecat just uses electricity to make heat. So if the ecat already makes heat, it should self-

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 6:55 PM, Eric Walker wrote: > On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 12:36 AM, Joshua Cude wrote: > > He said you need a battery for an internal combustion engine, and so that >> means it's not self-sustaining. That was what I responded to. >> > > My point was a valid one. It's that for

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 2:58 AM, Joshua Cude wrote: > On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 3:52 PM, David Roberson wrote: > >> Josh, what is common sense now becomes ancient history when the newest >> theories come out. >> > > Yes, I know that happens sometimes. And sometimes things that are common > sense re

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 2:52 AM, Joshua Cude wrote: > On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: > >> As dave explains it makes sense if the energy input provides cooling >> power. >> >> >> > Exactly. The whole thing is nuts. If it really needed to be regulated, it > would make sense to

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 2:37 AM, Joshua Cude wrote: > On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: > >> >> >> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Joshua Cude wrote: >> >>> >>> I'm not talking about initiating. I'm talking about sustaining. I have >>> no problem using electricity to initiate

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

obvious errors that I have committed. Dave -Original Message- From: Eric Walker To: vortex-l Sent: Fri, May 31, 2013 8:32 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Eric Walker wrote: My point was a valid one. It's

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 4:55 PM, Eric Walker wrote: My point was a valid one. It's that for a regular ICE you need a secondary > source of power to drive the spark plugs (where in a diesel engine you do > not after the engine gets going). > Just to clarify the point (for others), in an ICE, the

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

Terry Blanton wrote: > Glow plugs are for starting in cold weather. Before glow plugs, we > used ether to start diesels in cold weather. > In the Russian winter during WWII they would start tractor engines and tank engines by dumping gasoline on them and igniting it. They tried that with U.S.

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 12:36 AM, Joshua Cude wrote: He said you need a battery for an internal combustion engine, and so that > means it's not self-sustaining. That was what I responded to. > My point was a valid one. It's that for a regular ICE you need a secondary source of power to drive th

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

Message- From: Joshua Cude To: vortex-l Sent: Fri, May 31, 2013 2:39 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 1:11 PM, David Roberson wrote: Lets start with one of your choice regarding the many heat generation issues. How about how

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

Vacuum *Air + Water Vapor = 9.6 Megatons* (600 Hiroshima Bombs) from the latest Oklahoma tornado mentioned by scientists here All nature On Friday, May 31, 2013, Joshua Cude wrote: > On Fri, May 31, 2013

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 1:11 PM, David Roberson wrote: > > Lets start with one of your choice regarding the many heat generation > issues. How about how a small amount of heat can control a much larger > amount? > I agree this is possible under certain circumstances. But I don't see it in the h

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

om: Joshua Cude To: vortex-l Sent: Fri, May 31, 2013 1:46 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:32 AM, David Roberson wrote: With that in mind, please submit for discussion your main reason for discounting my explanation so that

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:41 AM, David Roberson wrote: Josh, please refrain from insults. Please refrain from telling me what to refrain from.

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

about the DC is true then at least admit it even though your friends might not like what you are saying. Lets at least put this one issue to bed and off the table. Dave -Original Message- From: Joshua Cude To: vortex-l Sent: Fri, May 31, 2013 1:43 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

What is not positive heat feedback? Dave -Original Message- From: Joshua Cude To: vortex-l Sent: Fri, May 31, 2013 1:40 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:40 AM, David Roberson wrote: Of course it is not the exact

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

Storms, please read the exchange. I was saying the transistor was not a good analagy because it's not positive thermal feedback. The claim that cold fusion is positive thermal feedback, is the basis of my argument that it should easily self-sustain if there were a COP of 3. On Fri, May 31, 2013

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

Cude, please admit to the obvious. The LENR effect has positive feedback. Increased temperature causes increased power generation. This is an established fact. Of course, if as you believe, CF is not real, than this statement is irrelevant to you and any discussion is a waste of time. Ed

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:32 AM, David Roberson wrote: > > With that in mind, please submit for discussion your main reason for > discounting my explanation so that it can be properly addressed and > everyone who is following this concept can draw their own conclusions. It > is my sincere wish

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:41 AM, David Roberson wrote: > Josh, please refrain from insults. > > > Please refrain from telling me what to refrain from.

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:37 AM, David Roberson wrote: > It is great to see that we are in such close agreement. Let's handle the > issues related to positive feedback as I requested and you will improve > your understanding. I thought you were keeping an open mind, not a patronizing one that

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:40 AM, David Roberson wrote: > Of course it is not the exact same. Positive heat feedback is what we are > mainly interested in. You know that, so why bring up the obvious > differences? Because it's not positive heat feedback.

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 6:23 AM, Rob Dingemans wrote: > Of course, because a diesel engine works with GLOW PLUGS as it doesn't have > any spark plugs. > But these glow plugs still require electricity generated by an alternator > which is connected by a V-belt to the engine. Glow plugs are for sta

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

to be doing just that. The challenges he faces are difficult. Dave -Original Message- From: Rob Dingemans To: vortex-l Sent: Fri, May 31, 2013 6:40 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question Hi, On 30-5-2013 22:48, Edmund Storms wrote: > I agree D

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

Josh, please refrain from insults. Dave -Original Message- From: Joshua Cude To: vortex-l Sent: Fri, May 31, 2013 3:07 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 9:45 PM, Eric Walker wrote: Yes, and only in a diesel

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 4:47 PM, David Roberson wrote: If someone is looking for an analogy they could look at the behavior of a power transistor mounted on a heat sink. For this exercise assume that the collector is

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

Cude To: vortex-l Sent: Fri, May 31, 2013 2:58 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 3:52 PM, David Roberson wrote: Josh, what is common sense now becomes ancient history when the newest theories come out. Yes, I know that ha

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On May 31, 2013, at 4:40 AM, Rob Dingemans wrote: Hi, On 30-5-2013 22:48, Edmund Storms wrote: I agree Dave, I have been providing this explanation for several years without any effect. I'm glad you are adding your voice. The critical point at which the temperature must be reduced depends

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

eventually understand the process and help to clarify it to other skeptics. I await your concentrated post. Give it your best! Dave -Original Message- From: Joshua Cude To: vortex-l Sent: Fri, May 31, 2013 2:48 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

Hi, On 30-5-2013 22:48, Edmund Storms wrote: I agree Dave, I have been providing this explanation for several years without any effect. I'm glad you are adding your voice. The critical point at which the temperature must be reduced depends on the degree of thermal contact between the source of

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

Hi, On 31-5-2013 4:45, Eric Walker wrote: Yes, and only in a diesel engine do you not need a battery to keep spark plugs going. Call me a nitpicker, but I think it should probably read: "Yes, and only in a diesel engine do you not need ANYTHING to keep spark plugs going." Of course, because

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 12:07 AM, Joshua Cude wrote: > > > > Seriously? Do you really not know how an internal combustion engine > works? > > > Man, this place is crawling with ignoramuses. > > > ***Sneering. Against the rules. > > > >

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 2:32 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote: > Josh: > > ** ** > > Eric’s comment about not needing a battery to keep spark plugs going was > referring to a DIESEL engine, and diesels don’t have spark plugs. > He said you need a battery for an internal combustion engine, and so tha

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

And then there is a class of non-paid sycophant apologists that make it their business to curry favor with the gatekeepers. They divine what the hierarchy wants and proceed to do their best to impress the powers that be. They want to be like them; like a kid who wants to be “Babe" Ruth so they mimi

RE: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 9:45 PM, Eric Walker wrote: Yes, and only in a diesel engine do you not need a battery to keep spark plugs going. Demanding a self-sustaining device is like demanding a diese

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 10:54 PM, Axil Axil wrote: > I think this is more about who is the gatekeeper to the ideology and > business of science rather than any exercise in ethics. > > The gatekeeper class resents this clique of stiff necked maverick > scientists who have the temerity to violate

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 9:45 PM, Eric Walker wrote: > > Yes, and only in a diesel engine do you not need a battery to keep spark > plugs going. Demanding a self-sustaining device is like demanding a diesel > engine. ICEs were first developed in the 1860s, and the diesel engine was > invented in

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Eric Walker wrote: > > . But my sense tells me that a significant number of scientists are > starting to take genuine interest and that they will stay tuned for further > details. > Read the cold fusion forums for the last 24 years. This has always been someone'

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 4:47 PM, David Roberson wrote: > If someone is looking for an analogy they could look at the behavior of a > power transistor mounted on a heat sink. For this exercise assume that the > collector is directly connected to a power source. Apply enough base drive > to obtai

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > > Bill Beaty has an excellent quote on this subject, here: > > http://amasci.com/weird/vmore.html > > "Every fact of science was once damned. Every invention was considered > impossible. Every discovery was a nervous shock to some orthodoxy.

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 3:52 PM, David Roberson wrote: > Josh, what is common sense now becomes ancient history when the newest > theories come out. > Yes, I know that happens sometimes. And sometimes things that are common sense remain common sense. But I think you misunderstood. I was not re

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Edmund Storms wrote: > I agree Dave, I have been providing this explanation for several years > without any effect. I'm glad you are adding your voice. The critical point > at which the temperature must be reduced depends on the degree of thermal > contact between

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: > As dave explains it makes sense if the energy input provides cooling power. > > > Exactly. The whole thing is nuts. If it really needed to be regulated, it would make sense to regulate with temperature controlled cooling.

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > > If we are going to do analogies, a more useful one would be to compare the > Rossi reactor to an internal combustion engine ICE. With an ICE you have to > apply the spark periodically to small portions of the fuel to trigger the > reaction.

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 3:23 PM, David Roberson wrote: > There seems to be a serious hangup over why a heat generating device needs > some form of heating input to sustain itself. The skeptics can not seem to > get their arms around this issue so I will make another short attempt to > explain wh

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > Joshua Cude wrote: > > A match is needed to ignite a firecracker, but once ignited, the >> explosion sustains itself. >> >> >> A match is needed to start a campfire, but not to sustain it. >> > > Cold fusion is not fire. It does not w

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: > > > On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Joshua Cude wrote: > >> >> I'm not talking about initiating. I'm talking about sustaining. I have no >> problem using electricity to initiate the ecat. But if it's a source of >> energy, it should behave l

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

I think this is more about who is the gatekeeper to the ideology and business of science rather than any exercise in ethics. The gatekeeper class resents this clique of stiff necked maverick scientists who have the temerity to violate the status quo and defies the picking order in their professio

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: If we are going to do analogies, a more useful one would be to compare the > Rossi reactor to an internal combustion engine ICE. With an ICE you have to > apply the spark periodically to small portions of the fuel to trigger the > reaction. Cud

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Randy wuller wrote: ** > My speculation is that based on this report the scientific community will > likely pay more attention to the developments in this area and will await > further testing and other disclosures before taking active steps to > investigate. So

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

drive level when the temperature of the transistor is above the first threshold? Positive feedback can be challenging. Dave -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell To: vortex-l Sent: Thu, May 30, 2013 4:11 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

David Roberson wrote: > Josh, what is common sense now becomes ancient history when the newest > theories come out. . . . > > You need to realize that all knowledge does not reside within your > understanding. All of us should be open to learning new concepts and it is > about time for you to

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

that I observe with the model. > > It is important to realize that a device such as this does not operate in > a simple manner such as that anticipated by the skeptics. I suppose that > is why they fail to understand Rossi's machine. > > Dave > > > -----Original Mess

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

, May 30, 2013 2:22 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Randy wuller wrote: Joshua: First, telling us how the majority of observers feel about the report is clearly beyond your knowledge. As Eric suggested making

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

--Original Message- From: Joshua Cude To: vortex-l Sent: Thu, May 30, 2013 1:26 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:20 PM, Jones Beene wrote: From: Joshua Cude First, the fact that this *source* of energy thousands of

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

As dave explains it makes sense if the energy input provides cooling power. Harry On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 4:26 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > I wrote: > > >> . . . If you unplug a Rossi cell and try to make it self-sustain without >> input, it will melt. >> >> An analogy to fire may be useful to un

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

I wrote: > . . . If you unplug a Rossi cell and try to make it self-sustain without > input, it will melt. > > An analogy to fire may be useful to understanding, but you cannot engineer > a reactor based on analogies. > If we are going to do analogies, a more useful one would be to compare the R

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

Dave -Original Message- From: Joshua Cude To: vortex-l Sent: Thu, May 30, 2013 1:26 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:20 PM, Jones Beene wrote: From:Joshua Cude First, thefact that this *source* of e

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

Joshua Cude mailto:joshua.c...@gmail.com>> wrote: A match is needed to ignite a firecracker, but once ignited, the explosion sustains itself. A match is needed to start a campfire, but not to sustain it. Cold fusion is not fire. It does not work the same way. Evidently, Rossi's

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Joshua Cude wrote: > > I'm not talking about initiating. I'm talking about sustaining. I have no > problem using electricity to initiate the ecat. But if it's a source of > energy, it should behave like one and be able to at least power itself. > > > A match is ne

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

Cude: You seem to be morphing into troll mode. Reasonable discussions with you are apparently at an end. Ransom - Original Message - From: Joshua Cude To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 1:22 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Alan Fletcher wrote: > > > > A device with a COP of 3 is not better than a heat pump. > > That's for MARCH, which was intentionally run at lower power, choosing > stability over COP. > Right. Three months of technical "improvements" gave a worse COP. > > The De

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 12:55 PM, Alan Fletcher wrote: > From: "Joshua Cude" > > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 10:12:17 AM > > > And didn't > > the engineers at the Swedish Standards Institute test this > > configuration without success. Have those engineers given an opinion > > on the latest te

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Randy wuller wrote: > ** > Joshua: > > > First, telling us how the majority of observers feel about the report is > clearly beyond your knowledge. As Eric suggested making those claims > without proof (poll, census, etc.) is not only unscientific it is > undoubt

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

> From: "Joshua Cude" > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 10:13:43 AM > I have not seen perfectly good reasons for it. The reasons given that > you need input heat to control the heat seem like an excuse to keep > the power connected to me. Is there another example of a reaction > triggered by heat th

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

From: "Joshua Cude" > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 10:12:17 AM > And didn't > the engineers at the Swedish Standards Institute test this > configuration without success. Have those engineers given an opinion > on the latest test? They know more than me too. They terminated the test because Ross

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

ase identify by what authority you achieved that role and position and I will stand corrected. Ransom - Original Message - From: Joshua Cude To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question On We

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:20 PM, Jones Beene wrote: > ** ** > > *From:* Joshua Cude > > ** ** > > First, the fact that this *source* of energy thousands of times more > dense than chemical has to be plugged in (to a high power line, no less) > will turn most observers away. > > ** **

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > Eric Walker wrote: > >> >> First, the fact that this *source* of energy thousands of times more >>> dense than chemical has to be plugged in (to a high power line, no less) >>> will turn most observers away. >>> >> >> Fine, so "most observe

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Eric Walker wrote: > On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:38 AM, Joshua Cude wrote: > > First, the fact that this *source* of energy thousands of times more dense >> than chemical has to be plugged in (to a high power line, no less) will >> turn most observers away. >> > > F

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