David Miller wrote:
> DAVEH wrote:
> > I may be misunderstanding you, Dean.....Are you saying
> > God created mortal beings specifically for the purpose
> > of being burned in hell to glorify Himself??? That
> > to me seems to portray him as a dictatorial tyrant,
> > and I would find it hard to think any Christian could
> > believes their God of love would be so cruel. Do other
> > TTers view God in this way??? And, is the attitude
> > Jeff found in the Baptist preacher commonly believed
> > by Baptists and other Protestants?
>
> Dave, Protestants are broadly divided over this issue, and even the
> Baptists are divided along these lines.
DAVEH: Wow!!! So whether or not (as Kevin is questioning) Jeff understood the
pastor's reply correctly, there are actually Christians who believe God created people
specifically to burn in hell to glorify Him. (Have I got that right, DavidM?) I
really find that incredible.......and, hard to believe. Now I wonder if there are any
TTers who subscribe to such thinking. But I bet nobody is going to admit it to me,
even if they do believe such.
> There are "Reformed Baptists"
> which are Calvinists, but many Baptists are more Arminian. You might be
> interested in checking out www.aomin.org
DAVEH: I did, but I didn't have time to go very deeply into it. Mainly looked at
James White's bio and related stuff. (Unfortunately, many of the links were 404.)
> as an example of a modern
> Reformed Baptist by the name of James White.
DAVEH: Fascinating! I wish I had a lot of time to order his downloads. Sounds like
he discusses much of what I've been trying to learn on TT. Someday I hope to retire,
and then I can spend a lot of time perusing stuff like he offers.
However......I wonder if he represents mainline Reformed thought. From the sound
of his ministry, he may be as much an oddball as many TTers! ;-)
I assume you know him, DavidM? Does he (his preaching) mesh well with other
Protestants and popular Protestant beliefs? I thought it was interesting that he
credits a couple LDS missionaries of inspiring him to ultimately pursue his ministry.
I
assume you have invited him to join TT?
> He is a Calvinist who
> likes to debate and he has been going to Salt Lake City for 20 years now
> passing out tracts at the LDS General Conferences. He has many articles
> about Mormonism on his website and agrees with you that Street Preachers
> are hurting Christianity. :-)
DAVEH: I find it interesting to hear of a SP who agrees with me on that. I suppose
that means the opposing SPs will draw a bead on him too, eh! ;-)
Is JW a lonesome voice on this, or are there many more who support his concerns
about the image of Christianity being affected by actions like those that take place
in SLC?
> The viewpoint Jeff mentions coming from this Baptist sounds like classic
> Calvinism.
DAVEH: I've heard the term, but know virtually nothing about it. Does Calvinism have
a big foothold in Reformed theology? Do we have any/many TTers who are Calvinist?
> To many Protestants who are more Arminian in their
> viewpoint, you will find objections to what the Baptist said. However,
> among the Reformed Protestants who follow the theology of Calvin, you
> will find many amen's. These "amen's" would be especially prominent
> among Reformed Baptists and Presbyterians.
DAVEH: I'm sure my perspective on this is a bit skewed, but when I think of
Presbyterians, I get the impression they really aren't as mainline as churches like
the Baptists, Methodists and Lutherans. Are the Ps considered to be fringe Christians
due to
the fringe practices (with regard to gay acceptance) that border on heretical?
> You might want to note that the Calvinists are divided into two camps
> themselves, called supralapsarians and infralapsarians.
DAVEH: Yikes.......I can't even pronounce them, let alone remember them! :-)
> The
> supralapsarians believe that before the world began, God first rejected
> the reprobates out of His sovereign good pleasure, then ordained the
> means of their damnation through the fall.
DAVEH: Ahhhhhh.....now I see why/how the pastor could/would have said what he did.
Hmmm......apparently the supralapsarians believe in a pre-existance similar to LDS
folks....is that correct? I wonder why they don't believe that God would deal with
them as he did Lucifer instead of putting them through the Fall..... Golly.....that
does bring up a lot of questions!
> I agree with you that such
> is a VERY distasteful viewpoint of God. :-) I suspect the Baptist Jeff
> met is of this variety. The infralapsarian Calvinists see the non-elect
> as fallen individuals damned solely because of their own sin.
DAVEH: Sounds like something you might subscribe to, DavidM. Are you in their camp?
> They
> emphasize their non-election as resulting from a "passing over" during
> the election process.
>
> Peace be with you.
> David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.
>
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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