So does that mean it is infallibly true and authoritative?
It means it isn't.
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In response to Gilberto's question on Righteous Warfare...
part 1 of 4
`Abdu'l-Bahá - The Secret of Divine Civilization pgs. 55-59
Today we have closed our eyes to every righteous act and have
sacrificed the abiding happiness of society to our own
transitory profit. We regard fanaticism and
Continuing part 3:
`Abdu'l-Bahá - The Secret of Divine Civilization pgs. 64-68
True civilization will unfurl its banner in the midmost heart
of the world whenever a certain number of its distinguished
and high-minded sovereigns -- the shining exemplars of
devotion and determination -- shall, for
Continuing part 2:
`Abdu'l-Bahá - The Secret of Divine Civilization pgs. 60-63
All the peoples of Europe, notwithstanding their vaunted
civilization, sink and drown in this terrifying sea of passion
and desire, and this is why all the phenomena of their culture
come to nothing. Let no one wonder
Religion, as in the Book of Religion, I love. I never consider that spilled milk. Light, from which lamp it shines, is light. Wisdom, no matter what inspired the wisdom, is wisdom.
but yes, the customs and accepted interpretations of previous religions and the habits that people have developed
Continuing part 4:
`Abdu'l-Bahá - The Secret of Divine Civilization pgs. 69-71
Contrast with this the praiseworthy qualities and the
greatness and nobility of Anushirvan the Generous and the
Just. [1] That fair-minded monarch came to power at a time
when the once solidly established throne of
I posted this before but I am afraid it got lost in all the other discussions. So I am being bold and post it again.
Dear all, recently I was told that the word tabernacle in thisquote in the original persian is actually nottabernacle, but is a word for the curtain whichtraditionally divided the
oh my, either my brain is going or I am suffering from lack of sleep! I keep leaving out half of what I want to convey in my messages.
I wrote:
I wonder if this word in the original language couldhave also the meaning of Tabernacle.
This was actually a question which should have been
Someone on another list remarked that according to science there is a link between commiting arson and being sociopath. It seems that sociopaths manifest their affliction first by an inclination to burn down buildings.
much love,
janine van rooij
dublin, ireland.
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo!
Someone on another list remarked that according to science there is a link between commiting arson and being sociopath. It seems that sociopaths manifest their affliction first by an inclination to burn down buildings.
much love,
janine van rooij
dublin, ireland.
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the
Hi Gilberto,
I completely forgot to answer to this post of yours!
My native tongue is Dutch. I came to ireland 7 years ago. I was born and raised in the Netherlands, aka Holland ;o)
much love,
janine van rooij
dublin, Ireland
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:32:35 -0800 (PST), louise mchenry[EMAIL
I completely agree about Ruhi and youth.
Here is my post from 2001:
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m29288.html
Unfortunately from then to now there hasn't been a Book 2
offering in our community as many others became enthusiastic
and there have been several more Book 1 study circles.
Speaking of arson... I sent this several days ago... but
haven't seen it on the list.
- Original Message -
From: Sandra Chamberlain
To: BAHA'I STUDIES
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 2:58 PM
Subject: Arson
Gilberto, you stated: Also, since being burned alive is
the punishment for arson
Gilberto,
I wrote:
All the perennialisms I have observed are deductive systems. They begin
with certain first principles and read them into various religious and
spiritual systems. That is what I meant by triumphalist.
You replied:
That seems really odd to me. I would tend to think of
It has
also been stated here in Alaska that Jr.Youth should not take
the Ruhi course but, instead take the course (patterned after
Ruhi) especially for Youth.
Dear Sandra,
I don't quite get that, nor have I seen anything like it in the lower 48. My
experience is that children as young as 10 or
In a message dated 1/22/2005 10:32:19 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Dear Sandra,I don't quite get that, nor have I seen anything like it in the lower 48. Myexperience is that children as young as 10 or 11 grasp how to do the basicexercises much quicker than the adults do,
Janine,
At 04:48 AM 1/22/2005, you wrote:
Someone on another list remarked that according to science there is a link
between commiting arson and being sociopath.
A sociopath is more a popular than a technical term.
However, IMO, the problem with that person's statement is that it may be true
All the perennialisms I have observed are deductive systems. They begin with certain first principles and read them into various religious and spiritual systems. That is what I meant by triumphalist.You replied:That seems really odd to me. I would tend to think of triumphalism more as an attitude
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 10:25:30 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto,
I wrote:
All the perennialisms I have observed are deductive systems. They begin
with certain first principles and read them into various religious and
spiritual systems. That is what I meant by
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 04:50:25 -0900, Sandra Chamberlain
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Speaking of arson... I sent this several days ago... but
haven't seen it on the list.
- Original Message -
From: Sandra Chamberlain
To: BAHA'I STUDIES
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 2:58 PM
Subject:
In a message dated 1/22/2005 11:27:20 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I wouldn't have the same respect for a Bahai who joined in on suchaccusations when their own scriptures don't seem to have a problemwith burning someone alive.Especially if we are talking about punishments
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 09:46:04 -0800 (PST), JS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto: But to accuse the Islamic punishments of being brutal and
inhumane is
something which is difficult if not impossible for a Bahai to do with
integrity.
JS: But Gilberto, none of the Laws of the Aqdas are
In a message dated 1/22/2005 11:58:21 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
And even if the Bahai writings didn't say what they did aboutpunishments for arson, how can you believe the Quran comes from Godand at the same time call it brutal?
I agree that it is specious to say "we
In a message dated 1/22/2005 12:09:24 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Alot of the Islamic penalties can be mitigated as well. They aren'tapplied in a vacum. There are all sorts of exceptions, andrequirements and its a basic principle that you want to avoid applyingsevere
Mark: In arguing for equality, all perennialists whose works I have read have imposed a certain "essence" on the different religions or spiritualities.
JS: Mark, I love the clarity of your writing, and the distinction you makebetween perennialism and Baha'i Progressive Revelation, and how the
Mark, I love the clarity of your writing, and the distinction you make
between perennialism and Baha'i Progressive Revelation, and how the former
and not the latter, is triumphalistic.
Thank you. I don't personally think that progressive Revelation is
triumphalistic. However, it can be, and
Hi, Gilberto,
At 12:12 PM 1/22/2005, you wrote:
So why did mark attribute it to the UHJ?
I should have been more precise.
It wasn't technically written by the House of Justice, much as letters written
on behalf of the House of Justice are written by staff persons at the
Secretariat.
The
In a message dated 1/22/2005 2:41:47 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
So which statements are infallible? They have to be actually writtenby house members and approved by them as the house of justice?
The House is infallible in its decision amking and consultation. The book
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 11:02:18 -0800 (PST), JS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mark: In arguing for equality, all perennialists whose works I have read
have
imposed a certain essence on the different religions or
spiritualities.
Then if anything their sin would be in overgeneralizing or in not
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 11:09:09 -0800 (PST), JS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
JS: But Gilberto, none of the Laws of the Aqdas are enforced except a few
related to prayer, marriage, burial, alcohol, opium, and a few others.
G: I don't see why that would be a relevant distinction. To make the
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:49:32 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/22/2005 2:41:47 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
So which statements are infallible? They have to be actually written
by house members and approved by them as the house of
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 17:03:15 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto,
At 02:52 PM 1/22/2005, you wrote:
Then if anything their sin would be in overgeneralizing or in not seeing
the particularities and differences of various religions but that is still
very different from
JS: I didn't say it has anything to do with whether or not we have a country. The House of Justice still has the right to decide when to implement the law of burning the arsonist, it at all. I don't think it ever will be.G: Why would the punishment be in the book if it wasn't ever supposed
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:54:40 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi, Gilberto,
At 02:41 PM 1/22/2005, you wrote:
So if the Universal Houes of Justice is supposed to be infallible, and
supervises a document, and allows it to be released then that document
isn't infallible?
Hi, Gilberto,
At 03:24 PM 1/22/2005, you wrote:
Here's what I'm not sure you are seeing.
I understand your point about historical or longitudinal particularism versus
cultural particularism. However, neither perspective has much to do with why I
am calling the perennialisms I have studied
MARK:One of the best antidotes for triumphalism is historicism which is opposed by most perennialists whose works I have read.JS:
Mark,are you refering to this meaing of historicism? "Most recently, Historicism has been used by post-modernist thinkers to describe the view that there is no
Gilberto,
At 05:21 PM 1/22/2005, you wrote:
In fact, in the case of perennialism one is explicitly asserting equality.
One can only assert equality if one has a basis for doing so (like equality
before the law).
Regards, Mark A. Foster http://markfoster.net [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sacred cows
G:
At the worst, what perennialists might be doing is romanticizing thepast. Talking about the noble savage and all that. But from theperspective of "progressive revelation" the past is being demonizedand those people of the past are considered savages, withoutbothering to consider them
Are you also saying that Baha'i Progressive Revelation is essentially
historicist?
Historicism has different definitions. I am using the term as it was defined in
the history courses I took in graduate school. (My Ph.D. minor was history.)
For instance:
the view that concepts, beliefs,
- Hide quoted text -
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:51:39 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Defending could be nothing more than apologetics.
Gilberto:
I could actually say the same about jihad then. There is a hadith
which states: The best jihad is speaking the truth to an unjust
I thought the laws were in the Aqdas?
Dear Gilberto,
Not all of them.
Jihads are also justified to defend Muslims living in the Daru'l-Harb as
I'm
sure you know, and bring their country into the Daru'l-Islam.
Then that's ultimately a matter of saving lives.
It can be done according to
Gilberto: That's really bizzare. I saw this a long time
ago. And Mark already gave a more complete answer to the
question than I would have given a long time ago.
Well, sometimes, posts are missing from the Archives, which is
where I looked. Nothing from me on the 14th and nothing from
Mark
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:23:16 -0800 (PST), JS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
JS: I didn't say it has anything to do with whether or not we have a
country. The House of Justice still has the right to decide when to
implement the law of burning the arsonist, it at all. I don't think it
ever
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 18:02:48 -0600, Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto:
The whole passage already looked sinister as is. I didn't remove any
mitigating context.
Susan:
Yes, you did. You left out the parts that make that passage make sense.
Gilberto:
Go back and look at the
In a message dated 1/22/2005 6:48:21 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Isn't the book the result of a decision made by the House?
No.
Scott
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You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
To
In a message dated 12/28/2004 7:37:54 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
"In the mundane case it is easier to deal with the idea that nothing
isperfect so its not a big deal for it to be improved upon later. Like
asports record... there is always going to be
In a message dated 12/27/2004 7:48:44 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I'velooked at the writings of the Bab but the stuff I've seen tends
not toinclude much legislation or commandments.
Dear Gilberto,
You'd probably have to find Nicholas' French
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The main concept which prevented me from accepting it was the near universal understanding of "the seal" among Muslims. For that reason, I gravitated more towards Eckankar (surat shabd yoga), Thelema, Theosophy, Vedanta, and (briefly) Sikhism.
Susan: Of course Mani,
Why would the punishment be in the book if it wasn't ever supposed to be
enforced?
For emphasis, to show divine displeasure with the prohibited deed.
If the law was intended to be enforced, Baha'u'llah would not have provided an
alternative -- life imprisonment without parole.
This is a very
In a message dated 1/22/2005 8:50:13 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Dear Gilberto,
You'd probably have to find Nicholas' French translation of the Bayan. Baha'is haven't given a high priority to translating the Bab's laws since they are no longer considered binding.
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 19:56:11 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/22/2005 6:48:21 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Isn't the book the result of a decision made by the House?
No.
But it was under the supervision of the house?
In a message dated 1/22/2005 8:58:17 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
But it was under the supervision of the house?
The House commissioned it, the House did not write it. The House reviewed it, they did not write it. The House made a decision to publish a book on the topic,
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 17:25:08 -0600, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi, Gilberto,
At 03:24 PM 1/22/2005, you wrote:
Mark:
I understand your point about historical or longitudinal particularism versus
cultural particularism. However, neither perspective has much to do with why
I
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 22:00:16 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/22/2005 8:58:17 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
But it was under the supervision of the house?
The House commissioned it, the House did not write it. The House reviewed
it,
In a message dated 1/22/2005 9:30:40 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Is there
an exhaustive statement somewhere which explains thedifference between
which actions, decisions, statements from the UHJare infallible (in which
sense?) and which are not?
Nope.
In a message dated 1/22/2005 9:30:38 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Is there an exhaustive statement somewhere which explains thedifference between which actions, decisions, statements from the UHJare infallible (in which sense?) and which are not?
The UHJ legislates, it
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 17:09:43 -0800 (PST), JS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
JS: I think that two options are presented, and it is left to the House of
Justice to pick the one most suitable to society.
Gilberto:
But why would that option be presented?
JS: In my view, it is there in case
On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 02:16:47 -, Brent Poirier
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Similarly, adultery between a married man and a married woman was punishable
by death by stoning. God desired to emphasize how importance the purity of
the marital relationship was. In the Aqdas, however, it is
In a message dated 1/22/2005 10:16:36 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Do the Bahai writings actually say that thepunishments found in the Quran are inhumane for the present day? Or isthat something you are just saying?
The Baha`i Writings say that the social laws change from
In a message dated 1/22/2005 8:49:14 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Gilberot:But unless you have a time machine,that justification doesn't do you any good.PeaceGilberto
Its the only way to look at it. The past is studiable because it is the past. Once can barely keep up
G: What criteria are you ultimately using to determine whether somethingis "humane""? Are you basically just going by popular opinion? Orsomething else? Do the Bahai writings actually say that thepunishments found in the Quran are inhumane for the present day? Or isthat something you are just
G: Umm... given that prostitution is actually legal in most of the west(so people are actually quite happy to pay money to have it) howexactly is that whole fining process a deterrent?JS: Doubling is the key word here. If the fine for adultery is $100, it will be $200 the 2nd time, $400 3rd
Sandra,
Here is the information again:
Should anyone intentionally destroy a house by fire, him also shall ye burn;
should anyone deliberately take another's life, him also shall ye put to
death.
-- Baha'u'llah, Aqdas: Notes, p.203
The law of Baha'u'llah prescribes the death
In a message dated 1/22/2005 11:49:38 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
G: Umm... given that prostitution is actually legal in most of the west(so people are actually quite happy to pay money to have it) howexactly is that whole fining process a deterrent?JS: Doubling is the
Hi, Susan,
At 07:23 PM 1/22/2005, you wrote:
Of course Mani, the founder of the Manichean religion, used that title long
before Muhammad adopted it.
Yes, but at the time (12-13 years old), I had not heard of Manicheanism. I was
turned off by any religion which emphasized what I saw as finality
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