Ah yes Schumpeter, Kondratiev waves of cultural evolution in economic cycles .... in my Master's thesis almost 20 years ago. A big fan.
Profit is good ... it's just that a free (like totally free, man) market may be the best way to make profits, but it's not the best way to decide how they're used .... some public accountability / regulation / insurance for lean times is needed there. Ian On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 1:12 PM, ml <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I don't know if anyone has pointed out that > the nineyeenth century view of capitalism > ostensibly espoused here by many of the anti- > freemarket crowd ourght be replaced with a > better model as per Schumpater. ( So, read > Schumpater. all who have an SQ view of the > free market system, or you are on the wrong > page, pointing at a rock and calling it a bird.) > > Profit, rather than being theft from the workers of > their blood, sweat and tears, has more correctly > been pointed out to be, for a company, more like > the fall feeding of a bear--the necessary cushion > through lean times for survival of the enterprise. > (This is not todrny that there are some humans > who act like thieves and steal from the enterprize > and their fellow workers. That is a different problem > similar to the 'more equal' problem in other systems.) > > Profit also pays for the growth of the enterprise and > EVERY company I've worked for or owned paid a > bonus to employees that spread the profit to them. > > Not for profit operations often operate less efficiently > and squander any chance of surplus and returns less > if anything to community. > > thanks--mel > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <moq_discuss@lists.moqtalk.org> > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 11:59 PM > Subject: Re: [MD] growth and sustainability > > >> [gav] >> is profit inherently unsustainable? or is >> there room for profit in a sustainable economy? > > Gav,You're comparing two different things: the structure of the > workplacevs. its profit status. The structure of the workplace can be > egalitarian(everyone has an equal voice) or it can be hierarchial (either > top-down orbottom-up).A company can be for-profit or non-profit. All > combinations are possible.For instance, a for-profit company can have an > egalitarian structure.If investors find this structure more efficient (= > more profitable)they will prefer it. On the other hand, a non-profit > hospital will generallyhave a chief administrator (with an advanced degree > in hospitalmanagement) & won't consult the janitorial staff on new > medicalequipment purchases.What happens when an employee controlled, > non-profit companycompetes against a for-profit one? Assume they are > bothmanufacturing companies, competing in the same market,selling the same > product for the same price. > > The price gets allocatedinto 4 categories: > I) variable costs (utilities, raw materials) > II) capital costs (land, building, machines) > III) wage > IV) "P-factor" (to be explained). > To simply: Assume the rates for I) & II) are the same.In the for-profit > company, investors provide the capital.In the non-profit company, the money > for the capital is borrowed.The amount allocated to III) & IV) vary > inversely.In the for-profit company, the lower III) wages get,the higher IV) > the "P-factor" (= profit) is.In the non-profit company, the money for > capital costs (+ interest)is repaid from IV) the "P-factor", the rest goes > to III) wages.The capitalist puts downward pressure on wages,while the > employee controlled company puts upward pressureon them. Craig > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
