okay someone please explain to me how a profit-based economic system (ie capitalism) can be sustainable. ie how can we avoid the boom - bust - war cycle that has characterised capitalism in practice for the past century or so.
of course i am presuming that we all consider depression and war things to be avoided. (general assent here?) --- On Thu, 16/10/08, Ian Glendinning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Ian Glendinning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [MD] growth and sustainability > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Received: Thursday, 16 October, 2008, 7:23 PM > Ah yes Schumpeter, Kondratiev waves of cultural evolution in > economic > cycles .... in my Master's thesis almost 20 years ago. > A big fan. > > Profit is good ... it's just that a free (like totally > free, man) > market may be the best way to make profits, but it's > not the best way > to decide how they're used .... some public > accountability / > regulation / insurance for lean times is needed there. > > Ian > > On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 1:12 PM, ml > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I don't know if anyone has pointed out that > > the nineyeenth century view of capitalism > > ostensibly espoused here by many of the anti- > > freemarket crowd ourght be replaced with a > > better model as per Schumpater. ( So, read > > Schumpater. all who have an SQ view of the > > free market system, or you are on the wrong > > page, pointing at a rock and calling it a bird.) > > > > Profit, rather than being theft from the workers of > > their blood, sweat and tears, has more correctly > > been pointed out to be, for a company, more like > > the fall feeding of a bear--the necessary cushion > > through lean times for survival of the enterprise. > > (This is not todrny that there are some humans > > who act like thieves and steal from the enterprize > > and their fellow workers. That is a different > problem > > similar to the 'more equal' problem in other > systems.) > > > > Profit also pays for the growth of the enterprise and > > EVERY company I've worked for or owned paid a > > bonus to employees that spread the profit to them. > > > > Not for profit operations often operate less > efficiently > > and squander any chance of surplus and returns less > > if anything to community. > > > > thanks--mel > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <moq_discuss@lists.moqtalk.org> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 11:59 PM > > Subject: Re: [MD] growth and sustainability > > > > > >> [gav] > >> is profit inherently unsustainable? or is > >> there room for profit in a sustainable economy? > > > > Gav,You're comparing two different things: the > structure of the > > workplacevs. its profit status. The structure of the > workplace can be > > egalitarian(everyone has an equal voice) or it can be > hierarchial (either > > top-down orbottom-up).A company can be for-profit or > non-profit. All > > combinations are possible.For instance, a for-profit > company can have an > > egalitarian structure.If investors find this structure > more efficient (= > > more profitable)they will prefer it. On the other > hand, a non-profit > > hospital will generallyhave a chief administrator > (with an advanced degree > > in hospitalmanagement) & won't consult the > janitorial staff on new > > medicalequipment purchases.What happens when an > employee controlled, > > non-profit companycompetes against a for-profit one? > Assume they are > > bothmanufacturing companies, competing in the same > market,selling the same > > product for the same price. > > > > The price gets allocatedinto 4 categories: > > I) variable costs (utilities, raw > materials) > > II) capital costs (land, building, > machines) > > III) wage > > IV) "P-factor" (to be explained). > > To simply: Assume the rates for I) & II) are the > same.In the for-profit > > company, investors provide the capital.In the > non-profit company, the money > > for the capital is borrowed.The amount allocated to > III) & IV) vary > > inversely.In the for-profit company, the lower III) > wages get,the higher IV) > > the "P-factor" (= profit) is.In the > non-profit company, the money for > > capital costs (+ interest)is repaid from IV) the > "P-factor", the rest goes > > to III) wages.The capitalist puts downward pressure on > wages,while the > > employee controlled company puts upward pressureon > them. Craig > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---- > > > > > >> Moq_Discuss mailing list > >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >> Archives: > >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Make the switch to the world's best email. 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