Game development
Hello, I want to write the game engine in C++ and write all the game logic and ai etc in D. How would i do this?
Re: Game development
On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 16:53:45 + Ras via Digitalmars-d wrote: > Hello, > > I want to write the game engine in C++ and write all the game > logic and ai etc in D. How would i do this? first, you have to write your game engine in C++. just fire your favorite text editor and start coding. second, you have to write your game logic in D. just fire your favorite text editor and start coding. third: now you have to connect the first and the second, but don't be afraid: you will never come to this part, actually. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Game development
On Thursday, 8 January 2015 at 16:53:46 UTC, Ras wrote: Hello, I want to write the game engine in C++ and write all the game logic and ai etc in D. How would i do this? Manu Evans has pretty much this, he's active on this newsgroup, maybe he can help you: https://github.com/TurkeyMan/fuji . But "writing a game engine" is not something you can simply do quickly or that someone can do for you. It can take years depending on what the engine is supposed to do. Connecting C++ with D is a trivial detail compared to all the work involved.
Re: Game development
On Thursday, 8 January 2015 at 16:53:46 UTC, Ras wrote: Hello, I want to write the game engine in C++ and write all the game logic and ai etc in D. How would i do this? I would not recommend writing a game engine (make games not engines) and why do you want to write the engine in C++ and the logic in D? I suspect that it is easier to write everything in the same language. There are several D gamedev frameworks and engine out there, http://code.dlang.org/, there are projects that don't use dub (fuji for example). But some of them are certainly not up to date so you will have to check the commit logs for activity. Best regards, NVolcz
Re: Game development
On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 17:31:49 + NVolcz via Digitalmars-d wrote: > engines) and why do you want to write the engine in C++ and the > logic in D? i bet he thinking that D is a fancy "scripting language with native performance". signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Game development
This isn't the best way to get more people involved in the D community... On Thursday, 8 January 2015 at 18:03:48 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 17:31:49 + NVolcz via Digitalmars-d wrote: engines) and why do you want to write the engine in C++ and the logic in D? i bet he thinking that D is a fancy "scripting language with native performance".
Re: Game development
On Thu, Jan 08, 2015 at 07:41:07PM +, Phil via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On Thursday, 8 January 2015 at 18:03:48 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: > >On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 17:31:49 + > >NVolcz via Digitalmars-d wrote: > > > >>engines) and why do you want to write the engine in C++ and the > >>logic in D? > >i bet he thinking that D is a fancy "scripting language with native > >performance". > > This isn't the best way to get more people involved in the D > community... He does not speak for the rest of us. T -- Answer: Because it breaks the logical sequence of discussion. Question: Why is top posting bad?
Re: Game development
On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 19:41:07 + Phil via Digitalmars-d wrote: > This isn't the best way to get more people involved in the D > community... he doesn't come here for D, nor for doing something productive even for himself. i know this type by their first words. you can see me willingly helping people that come for something, even with simple/newb questions. but i can't see any reason to try to help someone who doesn't even know what he wants, and didn't take time to ask a proper question. been there, seen that. trying to refine such questions and/or answer to 'em is just a waste of time, he will make everyone who's trying to figure out what he *really* wants sick and then he will go away. so maybe it's better to ask me and/or try to figure out my behavioral patterns before telling me that i'm alienating newcomers? maybe i have a solid reasons for acting like this... signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Game development
On 08/01/15 21:15, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: so maybe it's better to ask me and/or try to figure out my behavioral patterns before telling me that i'm alienating newcomers? maybe i have a solid reasons for acting like this... Thing is, you weren't obliged to reply to him at all, and it's not like he was singling out as the target of his question. If you've decided you don't like him or his question, why not just leave it be, let others reply as they will, and not spend any of your time on it?
Re: Game development
On Thursday, 8 January 2015 at 20:15:50 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: but i can't see any reason to try to help someone who doesn't even know what he wants, and didn't take time to ask a proper question. been there, seen that. trying to refine such questions and/or answer to 'em is just a waste of time, he will make everyone who's trying to figure out what he *really* wants sick and then he will go away. I'd prefer if you would respond to such people by staying quiet. This has several advantages: • No one accuses you of scaring newbros away • It does not take any of your time • You won't get sick • Only people that spend to much time here in the first place will invest in answering the question* Disadvantages: None.
Re: Game development
On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 21:54:46 +0100 Joseph Rushton Wakeling via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On 08/01/15 21:15, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: > > so maybe it's better to ask me and/or try to figure out my behavioral > > patterns before telling me that i'm alienating newcomers? maybe i have > > a solid reasons for acting like this... > > Thing is, you weren't obliged to reply to him at all, and it's not like he > was > singling out as the target of his question. > > If you've decided you don't like him or his question, why not just leave it > be, > let others reply as they will, and not spend any of your time on it? am i fobidding someone to reply? O_O but yes, i want to create an impression that timewasters are not welcome. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Game development
On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 20:56:40 + Tobias Pankrath via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On Thursday, 8 January 2015 at 20:15:50 UTC, ketmar via > Digitalmars-d wrote: > > but i can't see any reason to try to help someone who doesn't > > even know > > what he wants, and didn't take time to ask a proper question. > > been > > there, seen that. trying to refine such questions and/or answer > > to 'em > > is just a waste of time, he will make everyone who's trying to > > figure > > out what he *really* wants sick and then he will go away. > > > > I'd prefer if you would respond to such people by staying quiet. > This has several advantages: > > • No one accuses you of scaring newbros away > • It does not take any of your time > • You won't get sick > • Only people that spend to much time here in the first place > will invest in answering the question* > > Disadvantages: None. i read your opinion. and happily ignored it. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Game development
On Thursday, 8 January 2015 at 21:03:09 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 20:56:40 + Tobias Pankrath via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Thursday, 8 January 2015 at 20:15:50 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: > but i can't see any reason to try to help someone who > doesn't even know > what he wants, and didn't take time to ask a proper > question. been > there, seen that. trying to refine such questions and/or > answer to 'em > is just a waste of time, he will make everyone who's trying > to figure > out what he *really* wants sick and then he will go away. > I'd prefer if you would respond to such people by staying quiet. This has several advantages: • No one accuses you of scaring newbros away • It does not take any of your time • You won't get sick • Only people that spend to much time here in the first place will invest in answering the question* Disadvantages: None. i read your opinion. and happily ignored it. just gtfo ketmar... just do it.
Re: Game development
On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 21:11:47 + market via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On Thursday, 8 January 2015 at 21:03:09 UTC, ketmar via > Digitalmars-d wrote: > > On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 20:56:40 + > > Tobias Pankrath via Digitalmars-d > > wrote: > > > >> On Thursday, 8 January 2015 at 20:15:50 UTC, ketmar via > >> Digitalmars-d wrote: > >> > but i can't see any reason to try to help someone who > >> > doesn't even know > >> > what he wants, and didn't take time to ask a proper > >> > question. been > >> > there, seen that. trying to refine such questions and/or > >> > answer to 'em > >> > is just a waste of time, he will make everyone who's trying > >> > to figure > >> > out what he *really* wants sick and then he will go away. > >> > > >> > >> I'd prefer if you would respond to such people by staying > >> quiet. This has several advantages: > >> > >> • No one accuses you of scaring newbros away > >> • It does not take any of your time > >> • You won't get sick > >> • Only people that spend to much time here in the first > >> place will invest in answering the question* > >> > >> Disadvantages: None. > > i read your opinion. and happily ignored it. > > just gtfo ketmar... just do it. hello, honey! i really miss you! i hope you're ok. please, don't leave me for such a long time... signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Game development
On 08/01/15 22:02, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: am i fobidding someone to reply? O_O but yes, i want to create an impression that timewasters are not welcome. Well, it's one thing if you make that decision about people who are in contact with you personally. It's a bit different if you are unilaterally deciding to make that decision as a member of a collective forum of people, because in that case it's a bit of an imposition on the rest of us. i.e. just because _you've_ decided that he's a timewaster, doesn't make it OK for you to try and make him feel unwelcome in a forum that belongs to a wider community. Also, I don't know if you've ever had any contact or experience of this person in some other online space, but if not, it seems a bit harsh to jump to such judgement straight away, even if you've previously had bad experiences with people asking questions in a similar style.
Re: Game development
On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 23:02:26 +0200, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: > but yes, i want to create an impression that timewasters are not > welcome. Ironically this is exactly why I'm putting you on my ignored authors list. --Justin
Re: Game development
On 1/8/15 1:25 PM, Justin Whear wrote: On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 23:02:26 +0200, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: but yes, i want to create an impression that timewasters are not welcome. Ironically this is exactly why I'm putting you on my ignored authors list. Ironically you're replying to the message you weren't supposed to see :o). All, especially market and ketmar and those who like to get into diatribes: please help maintain a civil atmosphere on this group. We've kept a really nice atmosphere for a long time now, and it's sad to see it's become quite a bit less so in recent times. If you can't suffer someone's posts, please use your newsreader's filtering features to not see their posts. I know it's not perfect, but by and large it does improve things. I'd like to attract your attention to a much more important AND urgent matter. The dpl-generated docs are now the default on dlang.org. Sadly the conversion is imperfect and there are still quite a few issues that stay unresolved, most of them trivially simple and embarrassingly parallelizable. Please join those of us who are chipping in to fix them. Thanks, Andrei
Re: Game development
On 1/8/15 4:32 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: The dpl-generated docs are now the default on dlang.org. I don't know what "dpl-generated" means. I'm not seeing any differences. -Steve
Re: Game development
On 08/01/15 22:11, market via Digitalmars-d wrote: just gtfo ketmar... just do it. Sorry, no. Not acceptable either.
Re: Game development
If you can't suffer someone's posts, please use your newsreader's filtering features to not see their posts. I know it's not perfect, but by and large it does improve things. Isn't it better for the community to politely reign in those who misbehave? Elitism is terribly damaging, we want D to be what people think of and talk about rather than 'oh, those guys are assholes'.
Re: Game development
On 1/8/15 1:46 PM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: On 1/8/15 4:32 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: The dpl-generated docs are now the default on dlang.org. I don't know what "dpl-generated" means. I'm not seeing any differences. Oh, sorry. They aren't the default yet, but they'll be soon :o). -- Andrei
Re: Game development
On 9 January 2015 at 02:53, Ras via Digitalmars-d wrote: > Hello, > > I want to write the game engine in C++ and write all the game logic and ai > etc in D. How would i do this? I do this extensively. You can check out how I do D bindings for my engine: https://github.com/TurkeyMan/fuji/tree/master/dist/include/d2/fuji And also a project that uses it: https://github.com/FeedBackDevs/feedback You're welcome to use my engine if you like. It's pretty comprehensive, portable, and it's always nice to have other user feedback. I can also provide some level of engine support.
Re: Game development
On Thursday, 8 January 2015 at 18:03:48 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 17:31:49 + NVolcz via Digitalmars-d wrote: engines) and why do you want to write the engine in C++ and the logic in D? i bet he thinking that D is a fancy "scripting language with native performance". No i dont. I want to use D language for as much as possible. The reason I want to use C++ for the engine is that it always has full support for DirectX.
Re: Game development
On Thu, 8 Jan 2015 21:25:24 + (UTC) Justin Whear via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 23:02:26 +0200, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: > > > but yes, i want to create an impression that timewasters are not > > welcome. > > Ironically this is exactly why I'm putting you on my ignored authors list. yet i see that you're still reading my posts and even answering. i have to inform you that your twitlist is not working. T_T signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Game development
On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 22:27:53 +0100 Joseph Rushton Wakeling via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On 08/01/15 22:02, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: > > am i fobidding someone to reply? O_O > > > > but yes, i want to create an impression that timewasters are not > > welcome. > > Well, it's one thing if you make that decision about people who are in > contact > with you personally. It's a bit different if you are unilaterally deciding > to > make that decision as a member of a collective forum of people, because in > that > case it's a bit of an imposition on the rest of us. and if i'm not reacting, it's painting *me* wrong. > i.e. just because _you've_ decided that he's a timewaster, doesn't make it OK > for you to try and make him feel unwelcome in a forum that belongs to a wider > community. if he is intelligent enough, he will understand that nobody can talk for the whole community, so in the worst case he will ignore myself personally. if he is not intelligent enough... oh, well, as nobody else wants to be a judge, i will be one. i don't feel wrong calling someone "timewaster" if he *is* one. and i can smell 'em from a distance. this has nothing in common with "elitism", though. someone can't sing, someone can't program. both skills can be trained, but not by asking meaningless questions. > Also, I don't know if you've ever had any contact or experience of this > person > in some other online space, but if not, it seems a bit harsh to jump to such > judgement straight away, even if you've previously had bad experiences with > people asking questions in a similar style. it's like a doctor. often good doctor can see that something wrong with another man without taking him to the clinic first. i'm a "timewaster doctor" with a long practice. ;-) yet i'm still waiting for three bells ringing before making my verdict. now i have five bells ringing. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Game development
On Fri, 09 Jan 2015 05:35:04 + Ras via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On Thursday, 8 January 2015 at 18:03:48 UTC, ketmar via > Digitalmars-d wrote: > > On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 17:31:49 + > > NVolcz via Digitalmars-d wrote: > > > >> engines) and why do you want to write the engine in C++ and > >> the logic in D? > > i bet he thinking that D is a fancy "scripting language with > > native > > performance". > > No i dont. I want to use D language for as much as possible. The > reason I want to use C++ for the engine is that it always has > full support for DirectX. so i was wrong here. i'm sorry. yet you'd better explain your reasons right in the question next time, so other people can jump right to the answering, without guessing first what you *really* want to do and *why*. as you talking about "full support for DirectX", i'm supposing that your engine will support 3D environments? so you'd better start with writing the engine itself, and don't think about D here. just don't use things like multiple inheritance or excessive templating. when you'll get a solid working engine, it will be time to discuss how to build D interop with it, exploiting your engine's architecture as much as possible. or just start writing the engine in D. maybe you'll consider using OpenGL instead of DirectX, as we not only have bindings for OpenGL, but OpenGL is much more portable. so eventually your engine may be ported to MacOS X, for example, without rewriting the whole rendering part. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Game development
On Friday, 9 January 2015 at 06:17:28 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 22:27:53 +0100 Joseph Rushton Wakeling via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 08/01/15 22:02, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: > am i fobidding someone to reply? O_O > > but yes, i want to create an impression that timewasters are > not > welcome. Well, it's one thing if you make that decision about people who are in contact with you personally. It's a bit different if you are unilaterally deciding to make that decision as a member of a collective forum of people, because in that case it's a bit of an imposition on the rest of us. and if i'm not reacting, it's painting *me* wrong. i.e. just because _you've_ decided that he's a timewaster, doesn't make it OK for you to try and make him feel unwelcome in a forum that belongs to a wider community. if he is intelligent enough, he will understand that nobody can talk for the whole community, so in the worst case he will ignore myself personally. if he is not intelligent enough... oh, well, as nobody else wants to be a judge, i will be one. i don't feel wrong calling someone "timewaster" if he *is* one. and i can smell 'em from a distance. It's not about intelligence, and I'm surprised that an intelligent man like you would think otherwise. It's not reasonable to generalize community based upon only one member of said community, but it still happens. Everywhere, to everyone, because humans are like that. Instead of admitting of being unwelcoming, you swing the other way and accuse people of being not intelligent enough. That's absolutely ridiculous behavior that should not be acceptable in any friendly community.
Re: Game development
On 1/9/2015 2:35 PM, Ras wrote: No i dont. I want to use D language for as much as possible. The reason I want to use C++ for the engine is that it always has full support for DirectX. D has built-in support for COM and can interop with DX just fine.
Re: Game development
On Friday, 9 January 2015 at 13:22:14 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: On 1/9/2015 2:35 PM, Ras wrote: No i dont. I want to use D language for as much as possible. The reason I want to use C++ for the engine is that it always has full support for DirectX. D has built-in support for COM and can interop with DX just fine. So how can I get started with Directx programming in D? Could you give me a link to maybe a binding or some projects on github?
Re: Game development
On Friday, 9 January 2015 at 06:26:19 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Fri, 09 Jan 2015 05:35:04 + Ras via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Thursday, 8 January 2015 at 18:03:48 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 17:31:49 + > NVolcz via Digitalmars-d wrote: > >> engines) and why do you want to write the engine in C++ and >> the logic in D? > i bet he thinking that D is a fancy "scripting language with > native > performance". No i dont. I want to use D language for as much as possible. The reason I want to use C++ for the engine is that it always has full support for DirectX. so i was wrong here. i'm sorry. yet you'd better explain your reasons right in the question next time, so other people can jump right to the answering, without guessing first what you *really* want to do and *why*. as you talking about "full support for DirectX", i'm supposing that your engine will support 3D environments? so you'd better start with writing the engine itself, and don't think about D here. just don't use things like multiple inheritance or excessive templating. when you'll get a solid working engine, it will be time to discuss how to build D interop with it, exploiting your engine's architecture as much as possible. or just start writing the engine in D. maybe you'll consider using OpenGL instead of DirectX, as we not only have bindings for OpenGL, but OpenGL is much more portable. so eventually your engine may be ported to MacOS X, for example, without rewriting the whole rendering part. Well i had to know if it was possible.
Re: Game development
On 1/10/2015 12:28 AM, Ras wrote: On Friday, 9 January 2015 at 13:22:14 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: On 1/9/2015 2:35 PM, Ras wrote: No i dont. I want to use D language for as much as possible. The reason I want to use C++ for the engine is that it always has full support for DirectX. D has built-in support for COM and can interop with DX just fine. So how can I get started with Directx programming in D? Could you give me a link to maybe a binding or some projects on github? You can find bindings for DX 9 & 10 as part of the Win32 API bindings at [1]. Some work was done on a DX 11 binding for the Aurora graphics project [2], but I don't know how complete it is. If you need DX 11, though, it should serve as a good starting point. [1] https://github.com/CS-svnmirror/dsource-bindings-win32/tree/master/directx [2] https://github.com/auroragraphics/directx
Re: Game development
On Friday, 9 January 2015 at 06:17:28 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 22:27:53 +0100 Joseph Rushton Wakeling via Digitalmars-d if he is intelligent enough, he will understand that nobody can talk for the whole community, so in the worst case he will ignore myself personally. if he is not intelligent enough... oh, well, as nobody else wants to be a judge, i will be one. i don't feel wrong calling someone "timewaster" if he *is* one. and i can smell 'em from a distance. Ketmar the teenage albino freak wasting time replying to time wasters.
Re: Game development
On Sat, 10 Jan 2015 15:17:17 + dajones via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On Friday, 9 January 2015 at 06:17:28 UTC, ketmar via > Digitalmars-d wrote: > > On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 22:27:53 +0100 > > Joseph Rushton Wakeling via Digitalmars-d > > > if he is intelligent enough, he will understand that nobody can > > talk > > for the whole community, so in the worst case he will ignore > > myself > > personally. if he is not intelligent enough... oh, well, as > > nobody else > > wants to be a judge, i will be one. i don't feel wrong calling > > someone > > "timewaster" if he *is* one. and i can smell 'em from a > > distance. > > Ketmar the teenage albino freak wasting time replying to time > wasters. i'm proud of having my own fanclub. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Game development
On Saturday, 10 January 2015 at 15:44:32 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Sat, 10 Jan 2015 15:17:17 + dajones via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Friday, 9 January 2015 at 06:17:28 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 22:27:53 +0100 > Joseph Rushton Wakeling via Digitalmars-d > if he is intelligent enough, he will understand that nobody > can talk > for the whole community, so in the worst case he will ignore > myself > personally. if he is not intelligent enough... oh, well, as > nobody else > wants to be a judge, i will be one. i don't feel wrong > calling someone > "timewaster" if he *is* one. and i can smell 'em from a > distance. Ketmar the teenage albino freak wasting time replying to time wasters. i'm proud of having my own fanclub. You are **proud** to draw the attention of nerdy middle aged men... jeez I though I had problems.
Re: Game development
On Saturday, 10 January 2015 at 15:44:32 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Sat, 10 Jan 2015 15:17:17 + dajones via Digitalmars-d wrote: Ketmar the teenage albino freak wasting time replying to time wasters. i'm proud of having my own fanclub. When I was young and being on a network meant a BBS, the usual reply was "RTFM". I guess the modern age version of "RTFM" is to dump a URL: http://dlang.org/cpp_interface Unforunately, dlang.org lacks a proper C++ binding tutorial, so I guess this "RTFM" might turn into a "WTF! WTFM!".
Re: Game development
On Sat, 10 Jan 2015 16:03:22 + dajones via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On Saturday, 10 January 2015 at 15:44:32 UTC, ketmar via > Digitalmars-d wrote: > > On Sat, 10 Jan 2015 15:17:17 + > > dajones via Digitalmars-d wrote: > > > >> On Friday, 9 January 2015 at 06:17:28 UTC, ketmar via > >> Digitalmars-d wrote: > >> > On Thu, 08 Jan 2015 22:27:53 +0100 > >> > Joseph Rushton Wakeling via Digitalmars-d > >> > >> > if he is intelligent enough, he will understand that nobody > >> > can talk > >> > for the whole community, so in the worst case he will ignore > >> > myself > >> > personally. if he is not intelligent enough... oh, well, as > >> > nobody else > >> > wants to be a judge, i will be one. i don't feel wrong > >> > calling someone > >> > "timewaster" if he *is* one. and i can smell 'em from a > >> > distance. > >> > >> Ketmar the teenage albino freak wasting time replying to time > >> wasters. > > i'm proud of having my own fanclub. > > You are **proud** to draw the attention of nerdy middle aged > men... ah, sure. it's always funny to see some old jerk having nothing more to do than running around whining how old is he. i'm enjoying collecting perverts, you know. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Game development
On Saturday, 10 January 2015 at 20:59:20 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Sat, 10 Jan 2015 16:03:22 + dajones via Digitalmars-d wrote: You are **proud** to draw the attention of nerdy middle aged men... ah, sure. it's always funny to see some old jerk having nothing more to do than running around whining how old is he. i'm enjoying collecting perverts, you know. So lets get this straight... 1. I reply to you for maybe the third time and you think I am your own personal fan club. 2. You are proud to draw the attention of old men because it's "fun" to listen to them moan. 3. You enjoy collecting perverts. I'm almost too embarrassed to troll someone who seems unable to shoot anything but his own foot. *almost* :-)
Re: Game development
On Sat, 10 Jan 2015 23:13:28 + dajones via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On Saturday, 10 January 2015 at 20:59:20 UTC, ketmar via > Digitalmars-d wrote: > > On Sat, 10 Jan 2015 16:03:22 + > > dajones via Digitalmars-d wrote: > >> > >> You are **proud** to draw the attention of nerdy middle aged > >> men... > > ah, sure. it's always funny to see some old jerk having nothing > > more to > > do than running around whining how old is he. i'm enjoying > > collecting > > perverts, you know. > > So lets get this straight... > > 1. I reply to you for maybe the third time and you think I am > your own personal fan club. > 2. You are proud to draw the attention of old men because it's > "fun" to listen to them moan. > 3. You enjoy collecting perverts. > > I'm almost too embarrassed to troll someone who seems unable to > shoot anything but his own foot. > > *almost* :-) ah, so that was trolling? i'm so sorry... i was thinking that you're just a lonely old man and have noone to talk with. or i just can't realise that shitting their own pants is what they call "trolling" this times... o tempora, o mores... signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Game development
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 00:44:00 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Sat, 10 Jan 2015 23:13:28 + dajones via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Saturday, 10 January 2015 at 20:59:20 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On Sat, 10 Jan 2015 16:03:22 + > dajones via Digitalmars-d > wrote: >> >> You are **proud** to draw the attention of nerdy middle >> aged men... > ah, sure. it's always funny to see some old jerk having > nothing more to > do than running around whining how old is he. i'm enjoying > collecting > perverts, you know. So lets get this straight... 1. I reply to you for maybe the third time and you think I am your own personal fan club. 2. You are proud to draw the attention of old men because it's "fun" to listen to them moan. 3. You enjoy collecting perverts. I'm almost too embarrassed to troll someone who seems unable to shoot anything but his own foot. *almost* :-) ah, so that was trolling? You keep taking the bait. i'm so sorry... i was thinking that you're just a lonely old man and have noone to talk with. When you have self professed fantasies about collecting dirty old men you will probably start imagining them everywhere you go. or i just can't realise that shitting their own pants is what they call "trolling" this times... o tempora, o mores... "shitting their own pants" Your wit knows no bounds.
Re: Game development
On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 01:45:25 + dajones via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 00:44:00 UTC, ketmar via > Digitalmars-d wrote: > > On Sat, 10 Jan 2015 23:13:28 + > > dajones via Digitalmars-d wrote: > > > >> On Saturday, 10 January 2015 at 20:59:20 UTC, ketmar via > >> Digitalmars-d wrote: > >> > On Sat, 10 Jan 2015 16:03:22 + > >> > dajones via Digitalmars-d > >> > wrote: > >> >> > >> >> You are **proud** to draw the attention of nerdy middle > >> >> aged men... > >> > ah, sure. it's always funny to see some old jerk having > >> > nothing more to > >> > do than running around whining how old is he. i'm enjoying > >> > collecting > >> > perverts, you know. > >> > >> So lets get this straight... > >> > >> 1. I reply to you for maybe the third time and you think I am > >> your own personal fan club. > >> 2. You are proud to draw the attention of old men because it's > >> "fun" to listen to them moan. > >> 3. You enjoy collecting perverts. > >> > >> I'm almost too embarrassed to troll someone who seems unable > >> to shoot anything but his own foot. > >> > >> *almost* :-) > > ah, so that was trolling? > > You keep taking the bait. sure. just be sure to keep it fun enough for me, so i don't get bored. > > i'm so sorry... i was thinking that you're > > just a lonely old man and have noone to talk with. > When you have self professed fantasies about collecting dirty old > men you will probably start imagining them everywhere you go. no need to imagine something that i clearly see with my eyes. yet my imagination adding some... juice to the scene. > > or i just can't > > realise that shitting their own pants is what they call > > "trolling" this > > times... o tempora, o mores... > > "shitting their own pants" > > Your wit knows no bounds. that's 'cause i'm endlessly smart. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Game development
On Sunday, 11 January 2015 at 02:32:00 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 01:45:25 + dajones via Digitalmars-d wrote: >> >> *almost* :-) > ah, so that was trolling? You keep taking the bait. sure. just be sure to keep it fun enough for me, so i don't get bored. You think it's fun to lose what little credibility you had. > i'm so sorry... i was thinking that you're > just a lonely old man and have noone to talk with. When you have self professed fantasies about collecting dirty old men you will probably start imagining them everywhere you go. no need to imagine something that i clearly see with my eyes. yet my imagination adding some... juice to the scene. Ok you win, you're more perverted and sick than I am. Congrats. > or i just can't > realise that shitting their own pants is what they call > "trolling" this > times... o tempora, o mores... "shitting their own pants" Your wit knows no bounds. that's 'cause i'm endlessly smart. I agree, a true genius.
D for game development
A discussion to which I think some of us could add value: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4516283/the-d-programming-language-for-game-development Andrei
D for Game Development
D is really cool and makes a good candidate for developing a game. Are there any guys out there using D for indie games? For some time I have been seeing some cool game engine being developed in the DUB repo. What more is happening? I don't see derelictSDl and derelictSFML activities much. Whatup?
Re: D for game development
On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 4:08 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu <
seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org> wrote:
> A discussion to which I think some of us could add value:
>
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4516283/the-d-programming-language-for-game-development
>
> Andrei
>
Lambert's answer says the compilers are definitely not bug-free and all, but
is it really that bad? In a medium-sized project, do the compiler bugs
really get all too frequent or something, and if so, is it simple to find
workarounds?
Because I guess, quite frankly... if Derelict works, I have nearly no reason
to keep doing C++. In fact, the ease of meta and generative programming in D
makes me wonder if it's not much easier make the game engine in it.
--
Atenciosamente / Sincerely,
Guilherme ("n2liquid") Vieira
Re: D for game development
Right now I'm trying out the approach of making existing C++ 3D engines available for D. SWIG is very instrumental in the process. I hope that after the 64-bit issues are worked out, some special attention can be applied to the D language issue(s) that make it harder for SWIG to effectively generate D code.
Re: D for game development
On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 3:22 PM, Jimmy Cao wrote:
> Right now I'm trying out the approach of making existing C++ 3D engines
> available for D. SWIG is very instrumental in the process.
> I hope that after the 64-bit issues are worked out, some special attention
> can be applied to the D language issue(s) that make it harder for SWIG to
> effectively generate D code.
>
It's certainly a worthy effort. Having high-level libraries in D are a good
way of getting people to learn it faster by trying things they find fun
(such as making games).
But I think I'll take another route if I have the time to write games in D.
I don't think I would like to make a game using one of those anymore (I had
a sorta bad experience with Ogre in which it kept getting on my way, or
maybe I was just silly and disliked its style; in any case, I'd rather do
things from scratch now, since it's also good for learning).
In any case, two efforts are better than one. Much appreciated! I hope we
can help ourselves out. :)
--
Atenciosamente / Sincerely,
Guilherme ("n2liquid") Vieira
Re: D for game development
On 1/01/11 4:55 PM, Guilherme Vieira wrote: On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 4:08 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu mailto:seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org>> wrote: A discussion to which I think some of us could add value: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4516283/the-d-programming-language-for-game-development Andrei Lambert's answer says the compilers are definitely not bug-free and all, but is it really that bad? In a medium-sized project, do the compiler bugs really get all too frequent or something, and if so, is it simple to find workarounds? It's still quite bad atm. If you spent a whole day programming in D, you'd probably find at least one compiler bug, especially if you have optimisations enabled. You'll also probably find quite a lot of code that is supposed to compile, but doesn't, and this isn't documented anywhere (at least not in a useful way). There's almost always workarounds, but that's not the problem. The problem is trying to figure out whether the bug is in your code or the compiler. Because I guess, quite frankly... if Derelict works, I have nearly no reason to keep doing C++. In fact, the ease of meta and generative programming in D makes me wonder if it's not much easier make the game engine in it. Yes, Derelict is a very nice set of libraries :-)
Re: D for game development
Peter Alexander wrote: On 1/01/11 4:55 PM, Guilherme Vieira wrote: On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 4:08 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu mailto:seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org>> wrote: A discussion to which I think some of us could add value: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4516283/the-d-programming-language-for-game-development Andrei Lambert's answer says the compilers are definitely not bug-free and all, but is it really that bad? In a medium-sized project, do the compiler bugs really get all too frequent or something, and if so, is it simple to find workarounds? It's still quite bad atm. If you spent a whole day programming in D, you'd probably find at least one compiler bug, especially if you have optimisations enabled. Optimiser-related bugs are very, very rare. Currently I know of only three optimiser bugs (bug 5239 and bug 5364, and I can't reproduce either test case on Windows; and bug 5100 "-O Degrades performance of loop statements"). If there are any others, please report them, as they get top priority.
Re: D for game development
Guilherme Vieira Wrote: > > Lambert's answer says the compilers are definitely not bug-free and all, but > is it really that bad? In a medium-sized project, do the compiler bugs > really get all too frequent or something, and if so, is it simple to find > workarounds? > > Because I guess, quite frankly... if Derelict works, I have nearly no reason > to keep doing C++. In fact, the ease of meta and generative programming in D > makes me wonder if it's not much easier make the game engine in it. I think the gating issue is more with toolchain support than compiler bugs. VC6 was a terrible C++ compiler, but everyone used it anyway, partially because the IDE was excellent. Walter's had a good record of fixing reported show-stoppers in the next compiler release as well.
Re: D for game development
On 1/01/11 6:47 PM, Don wrote: Optimiser-related bugs are very, very rare. Currently I know of only three optimiser bugs (bug 5239 and bug 5364, and I can't reproduce either test case on Windows; and bug 5100 "-O Degrades performance of loop statements"). If there are any others, please report them, as they get top priority. Well, I haven't done any major D programming in a few months now; last time I did I found these two within a very short time: http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=4504 http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=4506 I stopped doing major D programming after that because those bugs wasted a lot of my time. Perhaps I should try getting back into it again :)
Re: D for game development
Peter Alexander wrote: Well, I haven't done any major D programming in a few months now; last time I did I found these two within a very short time: http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=4504 http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=4506 I stopped doing major D programming after that because those bugs wasted a lot of my time. Sorry about that. At least one of them has been fixed.
Re: D for game development
On 01/01/11 19:23, Peter Alexander wrote: On 1/01/11 6:47 PM, Don wrote: Optimiser-related bugs are very, very rare. Currently I know of only three optimiser bugs (bug 5239 and bug 5364, and I can't reproduce either test case on Windows; and bug 5100 "-O Degrades performance of loop statements"). If there are any others, please report them, as they get top priority. Well, I haven't done any major D programming in a few months now; last time I did I found these two within a very short time: http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=4504 http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=4506 I stopped doing major D programming after that because those bugs wasted a lot of my time. Perhaps I should try getting back into it again :) I know how you feel. In the space of one hour's programming today I've hit (at least) 3 compiler bugs, 2 of which I narrowed down and reported. I've spent at least 2 hours today wandering around in ldc and dmd internals trying to track down issues. This isn't a one off, I hit stuff like this all the time. I lose even more motivation when I see all the patches in bugzilla which aren't filtering through (I know they get there eventually, got a couple in myself, takes a good deal of time though), so know it could be months until I get a fix. -- Robert http://octarineparrot.com/
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:43:35 UTC, karabuta wrote: D is really cool and makes a good candidate for developing a game. Are there any guys out there using D for indie games? For some time I have been seeing some cool game engine being developed in the DUB repo. What more is happening? I don't see derelictSDl and derelictSFML activities much. Whatup? GC's up.
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:43:35 UTC, karabuta wrote: For some time I have been seeing some cool game engine being developed in the DUB repo. What more is happening? I don't see derelictSDl and derelictSFML activities much. Whatup? The Derelict packages are fairly stable. You aren't going to see any activity there except for bug fixes or updates to match new versions of the C libraries. They're still very much alive, though.
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:44:41 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:43:35 UTC, karabuta wrote: D is really cool and makes a good candidate for developing a game. Are there any guys out there using D for indie games? For some time I have been seeing some cool game engine being developed in the DUB repo. What more is happening? I don't see derelictSDl and derelictSFML activities much. Whatup? GC's up. Minecraft, written in java which has a GC does perfectly fine. A GC is not a reason a game cannot be developed. Look at how many browser-based games there are, which use a GC somewhere from the interpreted Flash or JS.
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:44:41 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:43:35 UTC, karabuta wrote: D is really cool and makes a good candidate for developing a game. Are there any guys out there using D for indie games? For some time I have been seeing some cool game engine being developed in the DUB repo. What more is happening? I don't see derelictSDl and derelictSFML activities much. Whatup? GC's up. I was thinking of using D for my game server (which is in C++ at the moment)... is the gc going to be such an issue? I know of @nogc but I also do know that some stuff needs gc, e.g strings and exceptions. From the things I read on this forum, it seems work is being done to make exceptions not use the gc. How is that moving along;
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 14:18:21 UTC, Brandon Ragland wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:44:41 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:43:35 UTC, karabuta wrote: D is really cool and makes a good candidate for developing a game. Are there any guys out there using D for indie games? For some time I have been seeing some cool game engine being developed in the DUB repo. What more is happening? I don't see derelictSDl and derelictSFML activities much. Whatup? GC's up. Minecraft, written in java which has a GC does perfectly fine. A GC is not a reason a game cannot be developed. Look at how many browser-based games there are, which use a GC somewhere from the interpreted Flash or JS. Minecraft is a dog though ... I always have to kill my kids ongoing game if I ever want to do any real work on the same machine.
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:43:35 UTC, karabuta wrote: D is really cool and makes a good candidate for developing a game. Are there any guys out there using D for indie games? For some time I have been seeing some cool game engine being developed in the DUB repo. What more is happening? I don't see derelictSDl and derelictSFML activities much. Whatup? In case you haven't seen, have a look at prior dconf talks by the German chap and by Manu.
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 14:18:21 UTC, Brandon Ragland wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:44:41 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:43:35 UTC, karabuta wrote: D is really cool and makes a good candidate for developing a game. Are there any guys out there using D for indie games? For some time I have been seeing some cool game engine being developed in the DUB repo. What more is happening? I don't see derelictSDl and derelictSFML activities much. Whatup? GC's up. Minecraft, written in java which has a GC does perfectly fine. A GC is not a reason a game cannot be developed. Look at how many browser-based games there are, which use a GC somewhere from the interpreted Flash or JS. I totally agree with you. Most people think of games as a life support system. Even MMO RPG games are able to scale with all the latency problems. And GC in D is not even much of an issues when compared to others like ..you know. But they are used for game development.
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 14:44:30 UTC, CraigDillabaugh wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 14:18:21 UTC, Brandon Ragland wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:44:41 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:43:35 UTC, karabuta wrote: D is really cool and makes a good candidate for developing a game. Are there any guys out there using D for indie games? For some time I have been seeing some cool game engine being developed in the DUB repo. What more is happening? I don't see derelictSDl and derelictSFML activities much. Whatup? GC's up. Minecraft, written in java which has a GC does perfectly fine. A GC is not a reason a game cannot be developed. Look at how many browser-based games there are, which use a GC somewhere from the interpreted Flash or JS. Minecraft is a dog though ... I always have to kill my kids ongoing game if I ever want to do any real work on the same machine. It's a dog because Java is a dog. But that's not because of the GC. It's not really that bad either, I can open up Minecraft at any time and have it sit in the background quietly using ~800Mb ram and virtually no cpu time. Either your kid has tons of mods in their Minecraft or your computer is a bit dated.
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 14:18:21 UTC, Brandon Ragland wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:44:41 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:43:35 UTC, karabuta wrote: D is really cool and makes a good candidate for developing a game. Are there any guys out there using D for indie games? For some time I have been seeing some cool game engine being developed in the DUB repo. What more is happening? I don't see derelictSDl and derelictSFML activities much. Whatup? GC's up. Minecraft, written in java which has a GC does perfectly fine. A GC is not a reason a game cannot be developed. Look at how many browser-based games there are, which use a GC somewhere from the interpreted Flash or JS. Not really. http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/support/server-support/server-administration/1916245-garbage-collection-issues-help-with-java Look it up in google.
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 15:10:59 UTC, Brandon Ragland wrote: It's a dog because Java is a dog. But that's not because of the GC. It's not really that bad either, I can open up Minecraft at any time and have it sit in the background quietly using ~800Mb ram and virtually no cpu time. It's mostly because, in Java, every one of those tiny immutable `(x,y,z)` tuples and vectors have to be allocated on the heap. D is nice because you can allocate such small things on the stack, but it also doesn't have a massively optimized collector either. Either your kid has tons of mods in their Minecraft or your computer is a bit dated. Tons of mods is the only way I can (or more accurately, can't) play MC anymore.
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:43:35 UTC, karabuta wrote: D is really cool and makes a good candidate for developing a game. Are there any guys out there using D for indie games? For some time I have been seeing some cool game engine being developed in the DUB repo. What more is happening? I don't see derelictSDl and derelictSFML activities much. Whatup? There's a small incomplete list of game dev libraries here: https://github.com/zhaopuming/awesome-d#awesome-d
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 15:23:18 UTC, Minas Mina wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 14:18:21 UTC, Brandon Ragland wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:44:41 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:43:35 UTC, karabuta wrote: D is really cool and makes a good candidate for developing a game. Are there any guys out there using D for indie games? For some time I have been seeing some cool game engine being developed in the DUB repo. What more is happening? I don't see derelictSDl and derelictSFML activities much. Whatup? GC's up. Minecraft, written in java which has a GC does perfectly fine. A GC is not a reason a game cannot be developed. Look at how many browser-based games there are, which use a GC somewhere from the interpreted Flash or JS. Not really. http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/support/server-support/server-administration/1916245-garbage-collection-issues-help-with-java Look it up in google. First: That doesn't reflect the majority of users, and is an isolated case. Second: That doesn't prove anything about GC in general. Perhaps they were using an out-dated Java version, or one of their plugins was hogging things up. Garbage collection is a non-issue even in most video games. Minecraft is an *extreme* case because minecraft has tons and tons of user variables to take into account, such as the thousands of blocks users place, and all the entities that wouldn't be an issue in say, an FPS or MMO RPG game. If anything, Minecraft is an example of how well GC can work, even when the program itself is seriously abusing the heap and dynamic memory allocation.
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 14:12:32 UTC, Minas Mina wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:44:41 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:43:35 UTC, karabuta wrote: D is really cool and makes a good candidate for developing a game. Are there any guys out there using D for indie games? For some time I have been seeing some cool game engine being developed in the DUB repo. What more is happening? I don't see derelictSDl and derelictSFML activities much. Whatup? GC's up. I was thinking of using D for my game server (which is in C++ at the moment)... is the gc going to be such an issue? I know of @nogc but I also do know that some stuff needs gc, e.g strings and exceptions. From the things I read on this forum, it seems work is being done to make exceptions not use the gc. How is that moving along; The good thing with D is that you can avoid the GC for the most part. So If you think that make sense for your project, go for it. It can work and I even think this is a good choice. But the GC in its current form is not very good, so avoid it.
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 15:10:59 UTC, Brandon Ragland wrote: It's a dog because Java is a dog. But that's not because of the GC. It's not really that bad either, I can open up Minecraft at any time and have it sit in the background quietly using ~800Mb ram and virtually no cpu time. Either your kid has tons of mods in their Minecraft or your computer is a bit dated. Now compare that kind of resources consumption with any game based on Quake III engine. While you are at it, compare the graphisms. Still not convinced ? Measure latencies, which are critical for most games.
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 21:27:09 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 15:10:59 UTC, Brandon Ragland wrote: It's a dog because Java is a dog. But that's not because of the GC. It's not really that bad either, I can open up Minecraft at any time and have it sit in the background quietly using ~800Mb ram and virtually no cpu time. Either your kid has tons of mods in their Minecraft or your computer is a bit dated. Now compare that kind of resources consumption with any game based on Quake III engine. While you are at it, compare the graphisms. Still not convinced ? Measure latencies, which are critical for most games. Heh, what about the original Quake or Unreal? Both ran quite well on a Pentium 100 with 16MB of RAM. Not sure if memory is serving me right, but I suspect the amount of visible triangles per scene in Quake 1 can be comparable to that of Minecraft's, except it was released almost 20 years ago... I think I was able to run it on my 486 with 8MB of RAM, though it was more of a slideshow than a game, even with minimum viewport size, but still!
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 21:27:09 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 15:10:59 UTC, Brandon Ragland wrote: It's a dog because Java is a dog. But that's not because of the GC. It's not really that bad either, I can open up Minecraft at any time and have it sit in the background quietly using ~800Mb ram and virtually no cpu time. Either your kid has tons of mods in their Minecraft or your computer is a bit dated. Now compare that kind of resources consumption with any game based on Quake III engine. While you are at it, compare the graphisms. Still not convinced ? Measure latencies, which are critical for most games. The OP is talking about indie games not AAA blockbusters. In general D is great for writing indie games, you just need to be aware that the GC is not the best and use @nogc where possible. It's not difficult and probably less overhead than writing the same code in C++. As for the Java GC, well Minefcraft does very well and has millions of happy blockheads playing it. bye, lobo
Re: D for Game Development
Everyone always references Minecraft, but that's not the only Java game out there. There are quite a few on Steam. You'll never even know they're Java if you don't follow their development, as they ship with a bundled JRE. The Java games that perform poorly or hog resources are always held up as an example of why Java is a dog or why GC for games is a problem, but then the ones that perform well don't even become part of the conversation. Experienced Java game developers know how to code to the GC and tune their apps to maximize performance. There's quite a lot of knowledge tucked away in the posts at java-gaming.org, where they've shared their experience and their games. The GC itself is not a deal breaker, nor is the Java language. People prove it every day. The same can be true of D. When enough D experience has been accumulated and shared, people will be writing games that take the GC into account. There's no reason to avoid it completely. It can be made to work for you. Even today, games in C and C++ focus on minimizing allocations, using the stack as much as possible and setting aside as much heap memory up front as they can. Given that collections in D only run during allocations, there's no reason why that same strategy won't work in D. It's all about strategy and profiling, finding what hurts performance and learning how to avoid it.
Re: D for Game Development
Using C code from D is actually a fairly straightforward to do, all
you need to do is write a D version of the function signature you want
to call and tell D to mangle it as a C function eg extern(C) { int
SDL_Init(uint flags); } now you just need to tell the linker to link
in libsdl and you are ready to go.
I have personally found Derelict adds too much complexity and breaks
too often for my liking.
If you want to play with a cross platform game engine with D bindings
you could look at https://github.com/TurkeyMan/fuji
On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Mike Parker via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
> Everyone always references Minecraft, but that's not the only Java game out
> there. There are quite a few on Steam. You'll never even know they're Java
> if you don't follow their development, as they ship with a bundled JRE. The
> Java games that perform poorly or hog resources are always held up as an
> example of why Java is a dog or why GC for games is a problem, but then the
> ones that perform well don't even become part of the conversation.
>
> Experienced Java game developers know how to code to the GC and tune their
> apps to maximize performance. There's quite a lot of knowledge tucked away
> in the posts at java-gaming.org, where they've shared their experience and
> their games. The GC itself is not a deal breaker, nor is the Java language.
> People prove it every day.
>
> The same can be true of D. When enough D experience has been accumulated and
> shared, people will be writing games that take the GC into account. There's
> no reason to avoid it completely. It can be made to work for you. Even
> today, games in C and C++ focus on minimizing allocations, using the stack
> as much as possible and setting aside as much heap memory up front as they
> can. Given that collections in D only run during allocations, there's no
> reason why that same strategy won't work in D. It's all about strategy and
> profiling, finding what hurts performance and learning how to avoid it.
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 22:39:38 UTC, Márcio Martins wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 21:27:09 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 15:10:59 UTC, Brandon Ragland wrote: It's a dog because Java is a dog. But that's not because of the GC. It's not really that bad either, I can open up Minecraft at any time and have it sit in the background quietly using ~800Mb ram and virtually no cpu time. Either your kid has tons of mods in their Minecraft or your computer is a bit dated. Now compare that kind of resources consumption with any game based on Quake III engine. While you are at it, compare the graphisms. Still not convinced ? Measure latencies, which are critical for most games. Heh, what about the original Quake or Unreal? Both ran quite well on a Pentium 100 with 16MB of RAM. Not sure if memory is serving me right, but I suspect the amount of visible triangles per scene in Quake 1 can be comparable to that of Minecraft's, except it was released almost 20 years ago... I think I was able to run it on my 486 with 8MB of RAM, though it was more of a slideshow than a game, even with minimum viewport size, but still! Are you kidding me? Visible triangles in Quake 1 was sub 2,000. Visible triangles in a "far" render mode on Minecraft tops over 200,000. Please don't make such a statement without looking. Each minecraft block is 16 triangles. Multiply that by however many blocks you have, and you'll see that number sky-rockets.
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 21:27:09 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 15:10:59 UTC, Brandon Ragland wrote: It's a dog because Java is a dog. But that's not because of the GC. It's not really that bad either, I can open up Minecraft at any time and have it sit in the background quietly using ~800Mb ram and virtually no cpu time. Either your kid has tons of mods in their Minecraft or your computer is a bit dated. Now compare that kind of resources consumption with any game based on Quake III engine. While you are at it, compare the graphisms. Still not convinced ? Measure latencies, which are critical for most games. Again, People see minecraft as "terrible graphics, pixellated" but each block represents 16 triangles, and there could be thousands of blocks on screen. You're easily looking at 200,000 triangles on "far" render mode. Then you have folks who use 512x512 mapped images per block, so now you have a HUGE textel density. People need to get their facts straight. I don't like Minecraft, but by no means in Minecraft some amateur game from 1990s running terribly on a computer. That game is every bit as CPU intensive as a modern game, though it looks like trash at first. Granted, it's by far not written well, but even for poorly written code, it performs better than I could have ever expected.
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 21:27:09 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 15:10:59 UTC, Brandon Ragland wrote: It's a dog because Java is a dog. But that's not because of the GC. It's not really that bad either, I can open up Minecraft at any time and have it sit in the background quietly using ~800Mb ram and virtually no cpu time. Either your kid has tons of mods in their Minecraft or your computer is a bit dated. Now compare that kind of resources consumption with any game based on Quake III engine. While you are at it, compare the graphisms. Still not convinced ? Measure latencies, which are critical for most games. People always compare things to Minecraft when discussing if garbage collection is feasible in a game. Which is annoying, because I'm sure Minecraft's allocations would make most people sad. It's not a fair comparison. Some quotes: "Minecraft 1.8 has so many performance problems that I just don't know where to start with. Maybe the biggest and the ugliest problem is the memory allocation. Currently the game allocates (and throws away immediately) 50 MB/sec when standing still and up to 200 MB/sec when moving. That is just crazy." But that was just a one off thing for 1.8 I believe, the normal is much better: "How did that work in previous releases? The previous Minecraft releases were much less memory hungry. The original Notch code (pre 1.3) was allocating about 10-20 MB/sec which was much more easy to control and optimize." 10-20 MB of garbage every second. That's just ridiculous to think of in a language like D. And that was long ago, it's probably worse now. Luckily D has things like ranges and other ways of improving this. Source: http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-modding/minecraft-mods/1272953-1-8-7-optifine-hd-d6-fps-boost-hd-textures-aa-af?page=2111#c43757
Re: D for Game Development
On Friday, 31 July 2015 at 21:40:51 UTC, Kapps wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 21:27:09 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 15:10:59 UTC, Brandon Ragland wrote: It's a dog because Java is a dog. But that's not because of the GC. It's not really that bad either, I can open up Minecraft at any time and have it sit in the background quietly using ~800Mb ram and virtually no cpu time. Either your kid has tons of mods in their Minecraft or your computer is a bit dated. Now compare that kind of resources consumption with any game based on Quake III engine. While you are at it, compare the graphisms. Still not convinced ? Measure latencies, which are critical for most games. People always compare things to Minecraft when discussing if garbage collection is feasible in a game. Which is annoying, because I'm sure Minecraft's allocations would make most people sad. It's not a fair comparison. Some quotes: "Minecraft 1.8 has so many performance problems that I just don't know where to start with. Maybe the biggest and the ugliest problem is the memory allocation. Currently the game allocates (and throws away immediately) 50 MB/sec when standing still and up to 200 MB/sec when moving. That is just crazy." But that was just a one off thing for 1.8 I believe, the normal is much better: "How did that work in previous releases? The previous Minecraft releases were much less memory hungry. The original Notch code (pre 1.3) was allocating about 10-20 MB/sec which was much more easy to control and optimize." 10-20 MB of garbage every second. That's just ridiculous to think of in a language like D. And that was long ago, it's probably worse now. Luckily D has things like ranges and other ways of improving this. Source: http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-modding/minecraft-mods/1272953-1-8-7-optifine-hd-d6-fps-boost-hd-textures-aa-af?page=2111#c43757 The point is that because Minecraft does such a shoddy job at any kind of memory allocation, optimization, or conservation, the GC has a lot more to handle, and is abused quite regularly due to Mojang's lack of any real world coding experience it seems. The point of the comparison is this: If Minecraft, which is terrible, can do it with a GC, then why can't a *well* made D game work even better. I'm not defending Minecraft in any way shape or form, I'm actually defending the JVM GC. Minecraft is terribly designed and mad,e and uses excessive amounts of resources partially just based on it's design. A whole bunch of "blocks" yes "blocks" represent 12 outer triangles and on diagonal triangle through the center. The stairs, etc. that the game has represents even more tris. So if you have: * A game which regularly renderings in excess of 200,000 trs per frame * A game with terrible optimizations (if any) * A game based on Java with a GC And it can still pull 30FPS on my cruddy 8 year old Gateway, than a GC is NOT the reason to NOT use the D language. If anything, you should take the lessons from Minecraft and do it *better* in D and you'll have much much better resource allocation, usage, and far less GC abuse. -Peace
Re: D for Game Development
On 2/08/2015 11:15 a.m., Brandon Ragland wrote: On Friday, 31 July 2015 at 21:40:51 UTC, Kapps wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 21:27:09 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 15:10:59 UTC, Brandon Ragland wrote: It's a dog because Java is a dog. But that's not because of the GC. It's not really that bad either, I can open up Minecraft at any time and have it sit in the background quietly using ~800Mb ram and virtually no cpu time. Either your kid has tons of mods in their Minecraft or your computer is a bit dated. Now compare that kind of resources consumption with any game based on Quake III engine. While you are at it, compare the graphisms. Still not convinced ? Measure latencies, which are critical for most games. People always compare things to Minecraft when discussing if garbage collection is feasible in a game. Which is annoying, because I'm sure Minecraft's allocations would make most people sad. It's not a fair comparison. Some quotes: "Minecraft 1.8 has so many performance problems that I just don't know where to start with. Maybe the biggest and the ugliest problem is the memory allocation. Currently the game allocates (and throws away immediately) 50 MB/sec when standing still and up to 200 MB/sec when moving. That is just crazy." But that was just a one off thing for 1.8 I believe, the normal is much better: "How did that work in previous releases? The previous Minecraft releases were much less memory hungry. The original Notch code (pre 1.3) was allocating about 10-20 MB/sec which was much more easy to control and optimize." 10-20 MB of garbage every second. That's just ridiculous to think of in a language like D. And that was long ago, it's probably worse now. Luckily D has things like ranges and other ways of improving this. Source: http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-modding/minecraft-mods/1272953-1-8-7-optifine-hd-d6-fps-boost-hd-textures-aa-af?page=2111#c43757 The point is that because Minecraft does such a shoddy job at any kind of memory allocation, optimization, or conservation, the GC has a lot more to handle, and is abused quite regularly due to Mojang's lack of any real world coding experience it seems. The point of the comparison is this: If Minecraft, which is terrible, can do it with a GC, then why can't a *well* made D game work even better. I'm not defending Minecraft in any way shape or form, I'm actually defending the JVM GC. Minecraft is terribly designed and mad,e and uses excessive amounts of resources partially just based on it's design. A whole bunch of "blocks" yes "blocks" represent 12 outer triangles and on diagonal triangle through the center. The stairs, etc. that the game has represents even more tris. Notch has said previously, if he had known Minecraft was going to become a hit like it was, he would have made it in C++. It was never made to be performant unfortunately. So if you have: * A game which regularly renderings in excess of 200,000 trs per frame * A game with terrible optimizations (if any) In the last few releases Mojang has been rewriting large portions of Minecraft for the purpose of performance optimization. E.g. thread friendly. It's broken mods ridiculously every single release. * A game based on Java with a GC And it can still pull 30FPS on my cruddy 8 year old Gateway, than a GC is NOT the reason to NOT use the D language. If anything, you should take the lessons from Minecraft and do it *better* in D and you'll have much much better resource allocation, usage, and far less GC abuse. -Peace
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 14:44:30 UTC, CraigDillabaugh wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 14:18:21 UTC, Brandon Ragland wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:44:41 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:43:35 UTC, karabuta wrote: D is really cool and makes a good candidate for developing a game. Are there any guys out there using D for indie games? For some time I have been seeing some cool game engine being developed in the DUB repo. What more is happening? I don't see derelictSDl and derelictSFML activities much. Whatup? GC's up. Minecraft, written in java which has a GC does perfectly fine. A GC is not a reason a game cannot be developed. Look at how many browser-based games there are, which use a GC somewhere from the interpreted Flash or JS. Minecraft is a dog though ... I always have to kill my kids ongoing game if I ever want to do any real work on the same machine. This is because of java most allocations in D are on the stack, not the heap. Java has no concept of stack allocations outside of basic types. Furthermore, more often than not allocations in D on the heap contain no pointers/references at all(>60% of all allocated memory in nearly every D program I tested that wasn't optimized to not use the GC contained no pointers/references.) and AFAIK the current GC makes no use of this fact.
Re: D for Game Development
On Friday, 31 July 2015 at 21:40:51 UTC, Kapps wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 21:27:09 UTC, deadalnix wrote: [...] People always compare things to Minecraft when discussing if garbage collection is feasible in a game. Which is annoying, because I'm sure Minecraft's allocations would make most people sad. It's not a fair comparison. [...] This is because of java's lack of stack allocation AFAIK. Lots of small objects that are created and quickly thrown away(like you'd see in a game) creates intense GC pressure.
Re: D for Game Development
On Sunday, 2 August 2015 at 05:03:34 UTC, rsw0x wrote: Furthermore, more often than not allocations in D on the heap contain no pointers/references at all (>60% of all allocated memory in nearly every D program I tested that wasn't optimized to not use the GC contained no pointers/references.) and AFAIK the current GC makes no use of this fact. Of course it does: memory allocated for data without pointers is not scanned (see core.memory.BlkAttr.NO_SCAN). It has been this way for ages.
Re: D for Game Development
On Sunday, 2 August 2015 at 06:25:34 UTC, thedeemon wrote: On Sunday, 2 August 2015 at 05:03:34 UTC, rsw0x wrote: Furthermore, more often than not allocations in D on the heap contain no pointers/references at all (>60% of all allocated memory in nearly every D program I tested that wasn't optimized to not use the GC contained no pointers/references.) and AFAIK the current GC makes no use of this fact. Of course it does: memory allocated for data without pointers is not scanned (see core.memory.BlkAttr.NO_SCAN). It has been this way for ages. Partially correct. If you compare the amount of memory allocated by the GC that is marked NO_SCAN compared to passing precise type information with the allocation many, many allocations that are without pointers/references are not marked NO_SCAN.
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:43:35 UTC, karabuta wrote: D is really cool and makes a good candidate for developing a game. Are there any guys out there using D for indie games? I hack away at little games in D whenever I can find some free time. My previous project was a strategy game: https://github.com/rcorre/terra-arcana I've abandoned it for now to move on to a less complex project that I can hopefully finish, but it did get to a playable state. As far as the GC stuff, I haven't run into issues like I used to with C#+XNA, but I also haven't been pushing the limits on allocations (my last two projects were turn-based-strategy). For now, D just seems to make me more productive than any other language I've tried. I'm hoping that if I do run into memory issues, std.allocator may be able to help.
Re: D for Game Development
On Friday, 31 July 2015 at 03:29:59 UTC, Brandon Ragland wrote: People see minecraft as "terrible graphics, pixellated" but each block represents 16 triangles I really hope they don't render a block with 16 triangles. and there could be thousands of blocks on screen. You're easily looking at 200,000 triangles on "far" render mode. Look up triangles/sec on modern video cards, you'll be surprised. Then you have folks who use 512x512 mapped images per block, so now you have a HUGE textel density. People need to get their facts straight. I don't like Minecraft, but by no means in Minecraft some amateur game from 1990s running terribly on a computer. Compared to real games, it is.
Re: D for Game Development
On 3/08/2015 1:51 a.m., Sebastiaan Koppe wrote: On Friday, 31 July 2015 at 03:29:59 UTC, Brandon Ragland wrote: snip People need to get their facts straight. I don't like Minecraft, but by no means in Minecraft some amateur game from 1990s running terribly on a computer. Compared to real games, it is. Some of things that goes on in the modding world is truely amazing. I can't find the tweets about it from @pahimar. But: For every item/block with a recipe and vanilla items/blocks hardcoded. It'll calculate at the start of runtime an EMC value in EE3. It does it ridiculously fast. He did an amazing job of optimizing it. I generally believe that we probably couldn't even match it in D. Unfortunately Vanilla Minecraft is quite a dog still, but getting better slowly. Even with the mass breakages of mods in the mean time.
Re: D for Game Development
On Sunday, 2 August 2015 at 14:03:50 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote: Some of things that goes on in the modding world is truely amazing. For every item/block with a recipe and vanilla items/blocks hardcoded. It'll calculate at the start of runtime an EMC value in EE3. It does it ridiculously fast. I understand absolutely nothing about it.
Re: D for Game Development
On 3/08/2015 1:35 p.m., Sebastiaan Koppe wrote: On Sunday, 2 August 2015 at 14:03:50 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote: Some of things that goes on in the modding world is truely amazing. For every item/block with a recipe and vanilla items/blocks hardcoded. It'll calculate at the start of runtime an EMC value in EE3. It does it ridiculously fast. I understand absolutely nothing about it. I'll try my best to explain it. - An item/block may or may not have a crafting recipe, it may have many or uses a non crafting mechanism to create - There could be 200k-400k+ blocks and items per modded instance - Each item/block may have an "EMC" value which is 1 .. int.max - The EMC value is calculated based upon the crafting recipes and all items/blocks that makes it up EMC values - Vanilla blocks/items have hard coded EMC values - Optionally other mods items/blocks may be required to have their values hard coded so the calculation can work - Back in EE2 it was all hard coded - In EE3 very few are hard coded The usage of the EMC value doesn't really matter. What does matter is that these calculations occur at the start of runtime. If this was poorly written this would have massive performance problems.
Re: D for Game Development
On Monday, 3 August 2015 at 03:28:26 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote: On 3/08/2015 1:35 p.m., Sebastiaan Koppe wrote: On Sunday, 2 August 2015 at 14:03:50 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote: Some of things that goes on in the modding world is truely amazing. For every item/block with a recipe and vanilla items/blocks hardcoded. It'll calculate at the start of runtime an EMC value in EE3. It does it ridiculously fast. I understand absolutely nothing about it. I'll try my best to explain it. - There could be 200k-400k+ blocks and items per modded instance I don't understand why there are so many. Once you calculated the EMC for each block -or item-type, you have them all, no?
Re: D for Game Development
On 3/08/2015 6:53 p.m., Sebastiaan Koppe wrote: On Monday, 3 August 2015 at 03:28:26 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote: On 3/08/2015 1:35 p.m., Sebastiaan Koppe wrote: On Sunday, 2 August 2015 at 14:03:50 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote: Some of things that goes on in the modding world is truely amazing. For every item/block with a recipe and vanilla items/blocks hardcoded. It'll calculate at the start of runtime an EMC value in EE3. It does it ridiculously fast. I understand absolutely nothing about it. I'll try my best to explain it. - There could be 200k-400k+ blocks and items per modded instance I don't understand why there are so many. Once you calculated the EMC for each block -or item-type, you have them all, no? 200k-400k does sound a lot, but it really isn't. There is a 'standard' mod called forge multi part. Basically for every block it adds a rather large amount more. It's at the very least *10 the real number of blocks. There are other mods that do similar but different things like this. Here is an old video from Direworld20 that should help you understand[0]. Also keep in mind dependencies between blocks and items for crafting recipes. For the Agrarian Skies2 mod pack, it has roughly 4*13*499 items/blocks. Based upon what was visible from NEI. I did have block+item dump here, but ugh too big for NNTP server. The lists only total 6145 but based upon NEI it would be closer to 25948. So obviously there are many many things not included in the item + block dumps. Things like multiparts are not listed by the looks. FYI Agrarian Skies is a themed mod pack that was not designed for fanciness so e.g. no extra "cool" blocks. Other packs like Direwolf20 would have much more massive numbers. After all there is a reason why Mojang shifted from a number to identify blocks and items to strings. Mods were using them up a little too much[1]. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9yUr4jmU6s [1] http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/threads/4096-and-beyond.20774/
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:43:35 UTC, karabuta wrote: D is really cool and makes a good candidate for developing a game. Are there any guys out there using D for indie games? For some time I have been seeing some cool game engine being developed in the DUB repo. What more is happening? I don't see derelictSDl and derelictSFML activities much. Whatup? You should have a look at this engine http://dash.circularstudios.com/
Re: D for Game Development
On Tuesday, 4 August 2015 at 18:59:34 UTC, develop32 wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:43:35 UTC, karabuta wrote: D is really cool and makes a good candidate for developing a game. Are there any guys out there using D for indie games? Not an indie game, but Remedy is making Quantum Break using D. And they are not using the GC.
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:43:35 UTC, karabuta wrote: D is really cool and makes a good candidate for developing a game. Are there any guys out there using D for indie games? Not an indie game, but Remedy is making Quantum Break using D.
Re: D for Game Development
On 5/08/2015 6:59 a.m., develop32 wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:43:35 UTC, karabuta wrote: D is really cool and makes a good candidate for developing a game. Are there any guys out there using D for indie games? Not an indie game, but Remedy is making Quantum Break using D. Got a source for that? As I can't find it.
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:43:35 UTC, karabuta wrote: D is really cool and makes a good candidate for developing a game. Are there any guys out there using D for indie games? For some time I have been seeing some cool game engine being developed in the DUB repo. What more is happening? I don't see derelictSDl and derelictSFML activities much. Whatup? After leaving C++ behind for a few years to work in some higher-level languages for job-related coding, I was excited when I stumbled upon D and how it seemed to make for a perfect balance of higher-level language features while still being compilable down to machine code and able to directly interface with the vast sea of awesome open-source game-oriented development libraries that offer up a C/C++ API. I spent several weeks tearing through the language reference and standard APIs to gain a solid grasp on what was possible with D. The existence of DUB and the Derelict bindings further made D seem like the perfect solution. Unfortunately I'm regrettably having to reconsider my decision to start a game project (or any project requiring significant time investment) in D. Not because of the language or compiler, but rather because of the lack maturity in the supporting tools; specifically, a debugger. I should say upfront that this seems to be more gravely affecting OSX than other platforms, but scouring forums and wikis has made it apparent that no platform is completely devoid of obstacles when it comes to functionally debugging D programs. To a certain extent, one can alternatively diagnose and fix bugs with verbose logging, assertions, and exceptions; but memory related bugs become exponentially more difficult to work through without being able to properly breakpoint, step through execution, and observe all variables in the current scope. Hopefully the ecosystem of supporting D tools will continue to grow and mature enough to be practical for large scale projects; but until then be prepared to face hurdle after hurdle trying to use D as a complete solution for game development.
Re: D for Game Development
On Tuesday, 4 August 2015 at 19:14:51 UTC, Rick wrote: After leaving C++ behind for a few years to work in some higher-level languages for job-related coding, I was excited when I stumbled upon D ... This is a typical path ... I spent several weeks tearing through the language reference and standard APIs ... ... of a new user, who becomes very impressed Unfortunately I'm regrettably having to reconsider my decision to start a game project (or any project requiring significant time investment) in D. ... but the story usually continues with disillusionment (let me guess: buggy toolchain, not everything is ready) Not because of the language or compiler, but rather because of the lack maturity in the supporting tools; specifically, a debugger. Yep.
Re: D for Game Development
On Tuesday, 4 August 2015 at 19:13:44 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote: On 5/08/2015 6:59 a.m., develop32 wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:43:35 UTC, karabuta wrote: D is really cool and makes a good candidate for developing a game. Are there any guys out there using D for indie games? Not an indie game, but Remedy is making Quantum Break using D. Got a source for that? As I can't find it. http://remedygames.com/job_offer/senior-tools-programmer/
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:43:35 UTC, karabuta wrote: D is really cool and makes a good candidate for developing a game. Are there any guys out there using D for indie games? For some time I have been seeing some cool game engine being developed in the DUB repo. What more is happening? I don't see derelictSDl and derelictSFML activities much. Whatup? D bindings to C++ is a little problematic, am I safe to learn bindings to SFML? Or is it that the D bindings is done with CSFML(C bindings).
Re: D for Game Development
On Tuesday, 4 August 2015 at 20:22:05 UTC, karabuta wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:43:35 UTC, karabuta wrote: D is really cool and makes a good candidate for developing a game. Are there any guys out there using D for indie games? For some time I have been seeing some cool game engine being developed in the DUB repo. What more is happening? I don't see derelictSDl and derelictSFML activities much. Whatup? D bindings to C++ is a little problematic, am I safe to learn bindings to SFML? Or is it that the D bindings is done with CSFML(C bindings). I mean both DSFML and derelictSFML
Re: D for Game Development
On Tuesday, 4 August 2015 at 20:25:07 UTC, karabuta wrote: D bindings to C++ is a little problematic, am I safe to learn bindings to SFML? Or is it that the D bindings is done with CSFML(C bindings). I mean both DSFML and derelictSFML DerelictSFML2 [1] binds to CSFML [2]. DSFML [3] binds against a custom SFML wrapper called DSFML-C [4]. [1] https://github.com/DerelictOrg/DerelictSFML2 [2] http://www.sfml-dev.org/download/csfml/ [3] https://github.com/Jebbs/DSFML [4] https://github.com/Jebbs/DSFML-C
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:44:41 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:43:35 UTC, karabuta wrote: D is really cool and makes a good candidate for developing a game. Are there any guys out there using D for indie games? For some time I have been seeing some cool game engine being developed in the DUB repo. What more is happening? I don't see derelictSDl and derelictSFML activities much. Whatup? GC's up. Regarding D's GC and Games written in D you can also take a look at a old project of mine and the results that came out of it. http://3d.benjamin-thaut.de/?p=20 Kind Regards Benjamin Thaut
Re: D for Game Development
On Tuesday, 4 August 2015 at 19:14:51 UTC, Rick wrote: Unfortunately I'm regrettably having to reconsider my decision to start a game project (or any project requiring significant time investment) in D. Not because of the language or compiler, but rather because of the lack maturity in the supporting tools; specifically, a debugger. I should say upfront that this seems to be more gravely affecting OSX than other platforms, but scouring forums and wikis has made it apparent that no platform is completely devoid of obstacles when it comes to functionally debugging D programs. To a certain extent, one can alternatively diagnose and fix bugs with verbose logging, assertions, and exceptions; but memory related bugs become exponentially more difficult to work through without being able to properly breakpoint, step through execution, and observe all variables in the current scope. gdb works fine on OS X and has D support.
Re: D for Game Development
On Wednesday, 5 August 2015 at 09:03:47 UTC, John Colvin wrote: On Tuesday, 4 August 2015 at 19:14:51 UTC, Rick wrote: Unfortunately I'm regrettably having to reconsider my decision to start a game project (or any project requiring significant time investment) in D. Not because of the language or compiler, but rather because of the lack maturity in the supporting tools; specifically, a debugger. I should say upfront that this seems to be more gravely affecting OSX than other platforms, but scouring forums and wikis has made it apparent that no platform is completely devoid of obstacles when it comes to functionally debugging D programs. To a certain extent, one can alternatively diagnose and fix bugs with verbose logging, assertions, and exceptions; but memory related bugs become exponentially more difficult to work through without being able to properly breakpoint, step through execution, and observe all variables in the current scope. gdb works fine on OS X and has D support. Can you enlighten me as to what configuration you've confirmed this on? I'm on OSX: 10.9.5 (Mavericks) GDB: GNU gdb 6.3.50-20050815 (Apple version gdb-1824) (building newer from source tends to fail to compile) DMD: DMD64 D Compiler v2.067 GCC: Apple LLVM version 6.0 (clang-600.0.57) (based on LLVM 3.5svn) At best, I can _sometimes_ hit breakpoints when using Mono-D, it's inconsistent. Even when a breakpoint is hit however, GDB only recognizes the current 'this' value; it doesn't recognize any frame / local variables other than 'this', global variables, etc., though it does recognize the call-stack at least. When using GDB directly from a terminal, the only D source file it recognizes for the purpose of setting breakpoints or listing source code is app.d (which contains the main() entry-point). Also have tried compiling with all combinations of -g, -gc, -debug, -gs, and -cov. None seem to improve the situation.
Re: D for Game Development
On Wednesday, 5 August 2015 at 08:53:39 UTC, Benjamin Thaut wrote: Regarding D's GC and Games written in D you can also take a look at a old project of mine and the results that came out of it. http://3d.benjamin-thaut.de/?p=20 Towards the end you list some performance and memory leaking issues in D. Have you seen improvement in these areas?
