Re: [IceHorses] Re: Today's quotes
--- Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "What I can get your horse to do, is less important > than what you can > learn to do with your horse." > > which means ? > > For me it means that, I can get help, let the process be taken out of my hands, and that can be ok, but ultimately I am left with me and my horse, probably standing out in a field, no other person around, and we have to figure things out together. Kim __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [IceHorses] Beat The Attitude Out of Him
--- Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > http://www.icehorsenews.com/news.asp?View=Article&ID=1056 > That article is confusing me, is the author advocating that? It's not really clear to me what he is trying to say. Kim Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
[IceHorses] Re: Links
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Virginia Tupper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I will be riding outdoors this winter since I won't have an indoor > riding arena after we move and I hate to be cold--so what do you all > wear under a helmet, I'm not sure if anything would fit under a helmet, would it? what's the warmest socks, do you wear an > Icelandic winter riding suit or skidoo suit? You should look at Moutain Horse http://www.mountainhorse.se/page.php?id=4 ...they seem to have some nice cold weather riding clothes. I think you can find stores that sell their things on their website, online sources and local sources. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: As Strong As A Lion, As Gentle As A Lamb
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Ryder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > As Strong As A Lion, As Gentle As A Lamb > > By Jeffrey Rolo > > When watching an alpha mare or herd leader interact with members of his/her > herd you will inevitably see the leader exhibit aggressive behavior, whether > in the form of brute force or (more commonly) in the form of body language. > If a subordinate grazes too closely to the leader without the leader's > consent the follower finds out the error of his way in short time. > > Whereas this continual "bullying" behavior may seem excessive to us, it's > important to realize it's a fact of life for a horse. It is their way, and > to enjoy a healthy relationship with a horse it's better that you understand > their customs and language (even if you instinctually disagree). Ok, I have been meaning to comment on this since this morning. I don't agree, not instinctually, or any other way:) I am certain that I heard Leslie Desmond say that if you look at a herd of horses, and there are alpha horses, for sure, but you will notice that none of the other horses really wants to be around that horse. I have definitely noticed this. I've seen some big butted mean mares, maybe they have a friend in the herd, but mostly I have seen the majority of the herd steer clear! There was a gelding, one in particular, a large Appy that Dari was turned out with, he would chase poor Dari, full on, and poor Dari would run as fast as his little legs would let him. I didn't see most of the herd taking up with that guy, in fact he sort of claimed Dari, in a domineering kind of way, and most every other individual would stay away. Is this what we are trying to get to?, not me. By the way, we are not horses, and can't really act like them, this doesn't mean we can't find an interspecies way to relate and cross those boundaries. > > Finally one day as my back was partially towards her she kicked me. Nothing > that left more than a black and blue, and not a kick that had bad blood or > mean intent behind it. Just a little strike with her front leg to let me > know she was impatient and wanted her grain now. > > So did she get it? > > No! With that act she crossed the line from poor manners to an action that > was outright disrespectful and could have hurt me. As much as I hated it, at > that point I gave her a couple strong cracks with my hand, shouted my > disappointment with her and sent her running. Ok, no, it may have gotten the job done, I am sure this is why people persist in this, but what else? Poor manner? Disrespectful? I'm not so sure about that, it's one way to catergorize it. I noticed the most amazing thing the other day. I was standing with Rose and Zoe by their feeding bin, late, late afternoon, we were all relaxed,they get along very well. I was standing between them, with my arm around Zoe's neck. Both had heavey eyelids, almost napping. Rose then turned her head back around toward Zoe, and made a nudging motion, but did not even touch her, maybe she did, but it was almost imperceptable. Zoe took a step back in response. Ultimate lightness! I quickly took my hand and moved it toward the same exact spot that Rose had motioned towards, barely touched Zoe, and she took another step back. Amazing! Now, I think that I have mentioned before that Zoe was recently taking her hoof and tapping me in the leg when I turn my back and give attention to another horse, like, Hey! I'm over here!, ok, she's really just wanting attention, wanting to connect with me, but it's not such a good move, I'm not as big, I'm a little scared that she will do when I'm bent over and she might hit my head. Ok. So, I decided I would clicker train her to shake, ok, she knows that. I have tried giving her a little whack (not like the one described above, more like a swat) it doesn't stop. I don't really want to take out the part where she wants to be with me. I love her, number one. We are friends. Ok, just some boundaries. I do think that I have mentioned before that Rose was doing some nipping and I found that if I softly, very politely pushed her head away from me, she stopped. She had not been doing this for some times now, after I asked her not to in this way, just a couple of times. Brilliant idea! I used this same technique to ask Zoe not to put her hoof on me, it seemed to have worked, she hasn't done it again, so far. I slowly, softly pushed her leg back down, in this way asking her not to do that. I also, with much intent, rewarded her by standing there, giving me a much less drastic sign that she wanted attention, by giving it to her for the more appropriate request. Maybe the horses aren't quite sure how to ask us for what they want sometimes, it seems like the right thing for them to do in their minds, just take time and think, and look at the horse as a friend, not an enemy, they are not big, scary, dangerous animals,
[IceHorses] Quote for Today
If one induces the horse to assume that carriage which it would adopt of its own accord when displaying its beauty, then, one directs the horse to appear joyous and magnificent, proud and remarkable for having been ridden. Xenophon Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Ignorant Horse Folks Video
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Raven <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Warning IMHOthis horse is being abused. What the he$$ is > wrong with some humans? These ignorant people do not deserve this > horse. Poor thing. > This is exactly how so many horses get ruined, and now, if he is lucky enough to find a good person, it will take so much longer to undo the fear they have put into him. Nice..the horse is terrified of people now. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Looking the horse in the mouth...
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Ryder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > That would be good to add to their PR: Spend $5 to $50K on an Icelandic and > we'll be sure to sell you an inferior one. > Judy, you are funny! Right, well whoever said that is moving it right along. I remember thinking the same thing when I saw that. I don't care what they say, my horses have a heart:) They are wonderful little guys. That is an old line, I've heard it over and over, it's obviously a way to try and make people feel inferior (when logical defenses end, the hostility rises), not very well thought out, but I guess, why would it be? Kim
[IceHorses] Pony for Adoption, Icelandic?
http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=4434853 Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Today's quotes
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Laree Shulman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > "There is something about riding down the street on a prancing horse > that makes you feel like something, even when you ain't a thing" - > Will Rogers > That's good, Will Rogers has good quotes. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Rocky Mountain Horse
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Nancy Sturm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Coming three year old? We don't start our horses that young. That means, > to be in that bit, he was probably started at two or shortly after. I think they start them in those bits, they do usually start them at two years old, so it's likely he was started at that age. > The rider is quiet in her seat > and hands, I think she is holding him in too hard, not giving him his head. >This could very well > be the only place her saddle will allow her legs to fall. I think these cutback saddles (and it looks like one) make you sit that way, it's sort of hard to sit in a more balanced position, not that it's an excuse really, there are other saddles. > > If I were looking for that type of horse, I might go look at him. He seems > like a good sport. I think they tend to be nice horses, good temperament. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Daily schedules
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Virginia Tupper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I know horses are happiest with a consistent routine of feeding, at > least that's what I've read. What kind of daily schedule do you all > have with your horses? Great, you are getting the place! You know, we had a discussion on this list about this, maybe two years ago, when one of the mules coliced, some people were saying it is better to vary their feeding schedule. > > What happens if you go away for a weekend? Get a horse sitter? > > Yep, I always had to wrangle someone into doing it, of course I would pay them, except when my mother did it. She is terrified of horses, I mean really phobic (except she's not scared of Dari:)), and at the barn I had, you had to go into the pasture to get into the barn and the hay was in the barn. She says that she started up the ladder into the loft and the horses started to come in, so she swears she told Celie that if she came in the barn nobody was going to get fed that night and Celie stopped, waited and kept the others from coming in. One advantage of boarding, even there are so many disadvantages:) Kim
[IceHorses] Re: The Cry of Censorship
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > On another list, Dawn asked why we need two Icelandic lists, and she claims > that the reason we do is because of Judy's censorship. Hooey. In the past, > we've been totally unable to mention non-tolt gaits on other Icelandic > lists, without being told our horses should be eaten, or that we should only > own horses of other breeds. I am not really sure what kinds of problems these people have, our horses should be eaten for x or y reason. I've heard the same thing, I was told not to feel bad, we just have to get used to hearing this as Americans, I wonder if the Icelanders would get mad if people said their stallions should be eaten when they wing too much, somehow I bet they wouldn't like it:) It seems like a huge insult to me and I really think these people know they are being insulting. Of course the source of the comment has to be taken into account. > > I'm sorry, but that attack on Judy on another list just makes me furious. I > hate that I've stooped so low as to respond, but maybe people should know > that "censorship" happens on the list that so often berates Judy. > I censored myself on that list, I un-joined after a week. That's the only way I can do it. I just don't really want to hear that stuff, so I don't listen to it:) It's that simple. I don't feel I have to defend what I am doing and what I believe to any of those people. I wonder what makes them feel like they must defend themselves with us? If they are so certain they are right, then why do they care? Kim
[IceHorses] Re: An idea
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "djakni1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >I was a non-believer in clicker > training (didn't have much luck) until I had to give my mare > antibiotics twice a day orally. It took two five minute sessions (and > applesauce) to go from rearing to compliance. Exactly!:) I sometimes use clicker training for "fun",but really I started using it and continue using it for these kinds of situations, it just makes it easier on everyone. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Saddle up! This pony's a smooth ride now Mistrustful Horses
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I still don't think I'll ever part with him, > considering all he's been through, but he really has continued to trust and > settle more and more. > And I didn't really let her go, it wasn't really my choice, she died, she was just the greatest horse to me, I didn't really want a different one, but I can see that to a lot of people, this would not have been a good match, I think she would have paid for it mostly. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Saddle up! This pony's a smooth ride now Mistrustful Horses
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Ryder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > And some of them, like Raudi, Rodi, Landi, Baersi, etc., do not like it; > don't care for people, and will never be reliable mounts. > I like to think that maybe even horses like this can maybe learn to trust one person. I had a horse for 14 years, not long enough, and when I got her, I know she felt no special love for people. She was like those horses you see on a rental string, sort of zoned out. She would do what she needed to, but she did not particularly feel anything for people. She was already and older horse when I got her, she had sores on the corners of her lips, from people pulling too hard on the bit. Her mouth was hard, pulling didn't stop her. It really took many years for her to really, really open up to me. She would buck, she loved to go fast, it wasn't right for everyone, basically she bucked if you wouldn't let her go fast, and she also bucked when she got to going as fast as she could, that was for fun, I really believe, a very energetic horse. When she was turned out, she would run, and run and run and buck, for a long time:) She started to have physical problems, she grew a tumor on her leg, and the first time I really remember her really making a connection with me, I mean totally, the way all my horses do now, was when I went to pick her up after surgery, when she heard my voice, she started calling out and just went into a frenzy, she was very high strung, not always terribly cooperative about anything, just wanting to keep on the move. I really think she started to trust me and understand how I felt when I cared for her after surgery, finally opening up. After that, she would lay her head on my shoulder in the afternoon and rest, it just all changed. Of course this took years, I think I may have had her 8 years when this happened. Everything good is worth waiting for. It was the most amazing relationship with my horse after that. It's not going to happen in 30 day, or even 3 years maybe, who has a lifetime? It may take that long. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Leslie Desmond yesterday
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Janice McDonald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> He tried to pass. I scolded. whack. > > So what instinct is that? I'm sorry, I just have seen it too much... > horses do act bratty, and sneaky, with each other, and with us. Its > almost comical. it is comical. to me :) > > Like Jaspar snatching bites of weeds on the trail. If I unwind the > crop from the saddle and put it on my hand, he stops. If I put it > away, he starts. what instinct is that, the trail munchie instinct :) You have a great ability to bring space to a situation:) I think I understand what Leslie is saying, I think, and I also understand what you are saying. I think it could be both ways. This really made me laugh because, having owned ponies for so long, I know exactly what you are talking about. My childhood pony would get his chance and bend his little knees, go under the single rail arena and rub kids off of his back, never did it to me, but I was ready. I believe I recall him trying to rub me off under tree limbs, never happened, I was ready. He did buck one child off, I told her to stop it! He did not like it when she was pretending she was a cowboy, whooping and swinging her arms around, when she didn't listen to me, Sequoia took care of her, or really took care of himself and dumped her. That pony, ditched me in the middle of the San Diego river, we got in the water, he got all slippery and wet and then saw his chance, he got rid of me and bailed, went home to his corral. Believe me, Dari will do what he wants if I am not after him, if he sees the chance, he will go left, when I want to go right, ponies are always plotting. The instinct part, I just think it is dangerous to blame the horse for a lot of things, like bucking, like any of their behavior really. It's one thing to see that they can give input, and I think Leslie lets the horse have plently of input, but we've seen how many times blaming the horse, when really if we fine tune how we relate to them, they will do better, still allowing them to feel their fears, to give input. It's somewhere in the middle for me. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Hands: Pony or Horse
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Janice McDonald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> a small breed whereas rockies are sorta on the small side i think. Out here they are usually on the short side, maybe around 14.2. I > have seen some humungous Mountain pleasure Horses but every purebred > rocky or KMSH I have seen was small boned and around 14hh or less. I'll probably be shot:), I've gotten in trouble for this before, but I really don't think there is actually a lot of difference between the mountain breeds, people in California would like to think so, but around here, people say they are all the same. I don't think my mare is so unusual, I have until November to get her registered grade Rocky, which I am not doing, I don't want to ride her for the certification at two years old, and I have longer to get her registered full KMSH. She is really 1/2 TWH, dam double registerd TWH and KMSH, father RMH and KMSH. I don't really think she is fine boned, she has some decent bone. Some are finer boned. Maybe it's just the breeder I got her from, they have some butt kicking mares out there, with good bone:) Kim
[IceHorses] Re: dreamhorse
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Janice McDonald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> My Stonewall tossed me a few times so bad an ambulance had to be > called once, I thought I had broke my back. People said "now he > knows, he has LEARNED how to get a human off his back and he is > getting better and better at it. " and they would tell me to sell him. > I think they can learn how to get people off, and some of them will keep doing it, as long as the problem is still present in their minds, or in their bodies. Actually my mule Celie has tossed someone, really bad, and tried to toss someone else. This is one of the reasons I really take my time with her, she is easily pushed to the point where she gets upset and frustrated. I really don't want to be tossed and she is good at it. I don't think we are going to have to go there if we come to terms with things together, she is willing when she understands what is expected. She loves attention on her, she has always been fussy, not the easiest personality, slowly she has become much easier. I really think she could get into trouble with the wrong person, pushing her too fast, getting frustrated. She got really upset when I went to move her to the new place recently, she just knew something was going on, and she gets all hyped up about it, she almost broke my nose in the stall, she didn't really mean to, but she goes to flight, freak out mode pretty quickly. Then she settles right down and seems like another animal in other situations. Slowly, settling down, I think one day she will be very dependable for me. I think she might have a personality like Stonewall, I feel the same way about her, I adore her. I bought her because I knew if I didn't, I would never get over it, I would be trying to find her forever. Horses are individuals and each one may take a different approach. I can't imagine my Icelandics acting like this, they don't, but it's possible that there are Icelandics out there who might have more of a reaction to things. Raudi is a prescious, beautiful horse, but he is > dangerous, and at todays horse market prices dangerous horses go for a > lot less than 3000 WITH papers. around here they go for around 125 > and sometimes no one will even bid, and they will have WGC sire or > dam, papered, futurity horses etc. > > Have you seen the horse market lately?? For 3000 I would expect a > rideable, ground trained decent horse. Every horse has issues and > quirks. Even the nicest horse can kill you DEAD, but only a fool or > green horse person about to be killed would pay 3000 for a registered, > known to be dangerous, bucking bronc horse. > Horses are not getting good prices at all, I believe things really started to go downhill in 2003 around here, that's when I remember breeders saying it had taken a dive. I have seen plenty of TWH's advertised around here for $500 or trade. Rocky mountains, under $2000, trained and safe. I think the thing to do is really be careful about placing a horse like this, really make sure that someone knows they are getting into a rehab situation, it's too bad that peole lose money on this, but horses are a risk, always, they are large animals, it does seem that a lot of people who buy Icelandics are new to horses, sometimes it isn't a good combination. Kim
[IceHorses] Quote for Today
I don't really know if this is my job, I'm going to run out soon, but I like this, sort of a quote, a poem really: http://www.rayhunt.com/horse.htm "Heart I talked to a friend just the other day who's got lots of opinions and plenty to say. We discussed what we both like to see in a horse His requirements and mine were different of course He likes a clean throatlatch and a long skinny neck, and prefers that their hocks are set close to the deck. Short backs and hard feet and clean slopin' shoulder, and a gaskin that looks like it swallered a boulder. He likes a short face and a big ol'soft eye, and says these are the horses he's likely to buy. And when he'd completed his lengthy discourse, on all of the attributes of the quality horse. He asked my opinion, and where do I start? And I said that I .just want horses with heart. I said I want heart above all the other. I don't care if he's Smart Little Lena's full brother. Or just how much money that his grandmother won, or whether he's roan, palomino or dun. But give me a horse with some grit and some try, and some heart and some guts and that's one that I'll buy. And I've found it's the same with a woman or man . the good ones won't quit you when the shit hits the fan by Monte Baker"
[IceHorses] Re: Hands
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'll believe a 15.3H Icelandic when I see one... Who'd want one, anyway? The world is full of 15H-16H horses already. > > I'm not sure that Icelandic really looks that big, I mean he is big, but he doesn't look 15.3 to me, I guess it's hard to tell from a photo. I kind of like him, I think I would like a bigger Icelandic, but I really don't think that people need to be trying for that. I think it's a little big for me, I do like my horses to be around 14.2, I *think* that's about what Celie is, and she seems really big to me, I trust a horse who is a little on the shorter side better, just how they move. I like my ponies too, I think they are 12 something. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: ARGH!
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Virginia Tupper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 9/21/07, Kim Morton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > If the house is still for sale come spring, and if we haven't found > suitable land maybe we can make another offer that the owners would be > more open to. > And building a house is a whole other stress, but at least you get exactly what you want. I am determined to build one of the small Ross Chapin houses for myself, some of them are small:), but that comes with less to take care of, easier to heat and air condition, and I can have what I want from the beginning. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: ARGH!
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Virginia Tupper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The house isn't worth the $$, but the > land is perfecthubby isn't sureseller wants the most he can > get. > > I want to have my Icey's home so bad!!! > I'm sure the seller wants to sell, don't get desperate, if this isn't the right place, there might be a reason, if it is the right place, you will get it. I want my horses home with me too, I have to admit, I don't miss watching the weeds grow, fixing things constantly, fixing fences, etc. etc. etc. It never ends:) My family is in the building business, I am pretty sure I am going to build myself a new house when it is time, at least I hope that might take some of the work out of it, I guess it won't help much with the weeds though. Kim
[IceHorses] Polygraph tests for Staff at TWH Celebration
I think these measures are good, but it just shows how bad these things get: http://www.twhnc.com/news_articles.htm#POLYGRAPH%20TESTS%20COMPLETED CELEBRATION POLYGRAPH TESTS COMPLETED Polygraph tests for Celebration show management, judges, and industry stewards were completed on Friday with the information gathered set to be reviewed by Celebration officials. The testing procedure was part of an overall plan announced prior to the 69th Celebration designed to ensure the health and safety of participating animals, compliance with the Horse Protection Act, and show integrity. Mr. Bob Campbell, a retired FBI polygraph examiner, conducted the tests over a four-day period. "All of the individuals that afforded themselves for this procedure did so voluntarily," said Campbell. "Arising from the examinations was some information that could help The Celebration® develop policies and recommend rule changes that could further their efforts in dispelling any perceived conflicts of interest." Celebration officials said the testing procedure was put in place to bolster confidence in the inspection and judging processes at the 2007 Celebration. "Our board of directors felt these tests would be a positive statement regarding the integrity of our event and add another layer of confidence to our exhibitors, ticket holders, and the outside world," said Celebration CEO Ron Thomas. "I am confident this battery of testing will accomplish that." Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Leslie Desmond yesterday
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > When you ask for more energy, you have to give them > room/rope to use > that energy. > > Ride with feel/Ride with dignity This is interesting, we can't ask them to go, then shut them down. I wish I could have gone, it just would have been too difficult to try and get up there in the middle of the week. I hope she comes back. I got so much out of it. I guess I will have to settle for the new audio book, still saving up a few pennies for it. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: blog - judges
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > And, here's another idea...I wish the focus wouldn't be on HAVING to have > an Icelandic judge all the time. How about more of the local shows being > intended for educational and fun purposes? I think you are saying something different, but there are all breed fun shows around here, I fully intend to take Snorri, my speedracking pony:) to them when he is older. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Where Do We Go From Here?
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Janice McDonald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > "Even good people do bad things sometimes"--- Big Bird (Sesame Street) > That's good:) Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Where Do We Go From Here?
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Ryder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Perhaps we can have someone volunteer to post a thoughtful quote each day, and someone else to post a positive affirmation. > This is a good idea. I don't think I could promise to do it everyday, I am sometimes away from my computer for the whole day, and never know how my work schedule will be, but I found a couple I like for today. In the quiet light of the stable, you hear a muffled snort, the stamp of a hoof, a friendly nicker. Gentle eyes inquire, "How was your day old friend?" and suddenly, all your troubles fade away. -Author Unknown What a horse does under compulsion is done without understanding, and there is no beauty in it either, any more than if one should whip or spur a dancer. -Xenophon I guess this problem has been around almost forever. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding?!?!
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Mic Rushen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Or this. There's a big discussion going on at the German icelist, > about the same subject. This is a preview of an article in one of the > German horse magazines, taken at the WC. It's not just here than > people are getting upset. > That is really a relief to hear. I've noticed some German sites (maybe just one? can't remember) where people are importing Rocky Mountain Horses and doing Natural Horsemanship (good horsemanship) with them, using sidepulls, gentle techniques. I don't see why that wouldn't spread over to Icelandics. I believe there is hope. I know there are people who have done things one way and then seen the light and started going down a softer, gentler path. It's just hard to see horses fighting their riders, I think a lot of us wish it could just stop right now! It's really hard when people are right in the middle of these things, it takes something to jolt us out of the situation, to take a step back, get some space, and really look at the situation, break old habits. It's uncomfortable to learn new ways of doing things, I still get uncomfortable sometimes and go back and forth with this. That's why I think it's important to work on ourselves, find our inner center when working with the horses, a quiet place, contemplate what we are doing. I am surrounded by people who are set in their way, set in their beliefs about how to handle horses, things that make me uncomfortable. I try to get quiet and just focus on myself and the horse I am working with, try not to let the chatter of what other people think work it's way in there. It's probably more difficult for people who are already set in their ways. It's amazing, there is a guy on another list who just got a mule, his first, and he has gone straight to clicker training and wanting to go see Liz Graves, this is pretty cool. I think it's great that this information is out there, I think it does make a difference. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding?!?!
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Wanda Lauscher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > How do you capture someone's attention if they are determined not to > listen? How do you shock them and make them sit up and pay attention? > I'm not so sure we can. Ugh, I actually went and read that stuff on Eidfaxi, it really makes me mad:), but at the same time, really, they are so defensive and trying to be insulting, it's really not rational. Unfortunately, I have actually heard things like this out of people's mouth's in real life, it really turned me off. What it seems like to me is that a few people are looking for status in a group, a "good" horse (one that costs a lot of money and does speed racking:)), that might get you into the group, and everyone else has ponies who are from slaughter lines:) These people are actually a little bit funny, just don't let anyone see that the emperor really doesn't have any clothes. I don't think it is either/ or/ like if I ride my horses with good horsemanship, they can't perform well. I think they can perform well, I don't know if I have any speedrackers yet, maybe not:) I don't see why a good fast tolt, rack, whatever couldn't be done with good horsemanship, I think it could. It's fun to go fast, I just don't want to see the harsh bits, and yanking, pulling, it's really an unattractive picture and in my mind takes away from the talent of the horse, it's so distracting. People who don't see it, they see a something good, well, I'm sure the spider crawl looks good to the TWH people who like padded up horses, they think it looks great, other people who aren't used to it are disgusted. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding?!?!
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Yep. Melnir is very green, and I'm a believer that the first few months of training should mostly be walk, walk walk. I did finally get Cary to tape a few little bursts of flat walk and foxtrot that he freely offered. I have no qualms about posting my "in progress" videos. I'll keep doing it too. > I think it's good to show good examples of how we do things, not just the finished product, I think the most important part is how we get there. If it came from the general population I assume it came from, who cares? It's more about status to them than about the horse. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: info you must know about your CDC
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "jacklyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > It seems that the press does not want to touch it > eitherI wonder why? (gay agenda?) > This is pretty wild:) Let's get into our time machines and go back to 2007, we are not in 1955 anymore. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding?!?!
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Ryder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > http://www.notion.net/icelandichorses2007/qtpreviewT1.html > > > > I wonder: what is the audience applauding?!?!? > > > What can we do to make a positive impact on this situation? to change things for the benefit of the horse? > > I think we have to keep setting a good example of how to do things, keep putting the information out there, educate, inform, and keep protesting when we see people hurting horses. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding?!?!
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > Here's a new Jolli special design I just saw: > http://www.astund.is/index.php? id=24&activemenu=24&prod_cat=83&catalog_item=1472 Now that's just what every tack minimalist needs - a lunging caveson with metal sides. Note what the caption reads: "The new "Jolli Caveson" A fantastic tool to work with and teach horses a friendly behavior towards basic training. Master Trainer Eyjólfur Ãsólfsson the designer of the Jolli caveson explaines the use of this effective training tool in his educational film "On Horseback"" > > Can anyone possibly see anything "natural" in what this man is doing? It's not "natural" and it's not "dressage" - but I don't know what it is. > That lunging caveson looks similar to this Crescent Noseband: http://tinyurl.com/nuk43 They say it will put more pressure on the nose and prevent the jaw from crossing? Nice. "Friendly behavior towards basic training"? Really, it probably just controls the horse with enough force to keep them shut down, so they stop trying to run away from you. There are such better training techniques out there, special torture devices not needed. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding?!?!
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Janice McDonald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I mean... it is pretty clear to me what I see... and I assume it's pretty > > clear to other horsemen around the world (unless they're *not* horsemen and > > only *horse riders* or *horse controllers*). > > > > I would hope that people get a clue and NOT copy what those people (World > > Championship riders?!?!?!) are doing. > > > > well yes, and definitely something to not make light of! But I just > don't know how to tell people that haven't seen the downhill > progression from just a little to full out stomach lurching horse > cruelty. I think that it is unfortunate that this kind of thing is out there to set an example. I think that people watch this, get used to it, don't see anything wrong with it, they are told this is ideal, and then try to immitate it. It's too bad that we have "sheep" riding horses:) Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Ground Driving Snorri
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Nancy Sturm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I love that you can clip western reins to a halter, stand right behind his > butt and drive him along a fence. We've driven Tosca from the seat of an > electric wheelchair. I would never have tried it if I hadn't been convinced > in advance that it was safe. > > Kim, I can't remember what your background is, so please forgive me if I'm > preaching to the choir, but please don't try the same thing on a young > any-other-breed horse in training. You might be just fine and you might get > kicked or dragged into the next county. Don't worry. I've had horses since I was 9 years old, it's been about 30 years. I take a lot of time with all my guys, I can stand behind any of them and trust them not to kick me. There is no way I will go near the back end of any horse I don't know. I was fooling around with a mule last week and he turned his butt, I said to the owner, "I'm not going near his butt" and he said, no, he has kicked at us before. I only made contact with him when he faced me and I could get to his head and shoulder. I trust all my guys not to drag me off either. Basically, if they did get going, I'm just going to let them go, I'm doing this in an enclosed pasture area. My Kentucky horse is really, really gentle also, I don't think she's going anywhere. I did do the same exact thing with Zoe, the mule, right after I worked with Snorri, and she was fine, totally into it, with good stops and everything. I am working with them gently, they are allowed time to figure out what we are doing, they are not scared, and it falls into place pretty nicely. Plus, I've got the treats, for the clicker part, and they keep looking back at me to check in and see when they get their reward. I know there are different individuals in different breeds, but I am finding if I work this way, they respond similarly, I think being hard on any of them, or trying to hurry things up, that is what might make them freak. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Hempfling says:off topic?
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > In round pen training the Icey´s is more sensetivive (ice breed) where you stand. I had a hard time with my Fafnir in the beginning as I tended to go to close and then he turned his but up instead of facing me , I had really to keep my self on the "middle spot" and he never did the "join up" thing,following me around. in everything I do in round pen with Fafnir I have to keep myself on the spot othervise I´m to close. (know 13 yo) > Here is the thing though. I think Snorri is a typical Icelandic, middle of the road, not too extreme in any way. He wasn't handled much for his first two years, just for the farrier, shots, gelding, maybe some attention here and there. He is pretty reserved with people. When I got him to my house, he was always turning his butt to me, it took me a while to get near his head. Of course he was being medicated and poked at, and was sick of it. It really took a while to bring him around, and I really didn't push it. Really I don't mess with him that much. He has learned though, he faces me now, he does not turn his butt to me, he likes some attention, he is just not pushy about getting it. I decided to teach him to ground drive yesterday. I don't have a bunch of different equipment, I just put the rope halter on, with clip on leather braided western reins attached and stood behind him, they are just long enough that I can hold onto them standing right behind his butt. I incorporated clicker training. I asked him to go forward with me walking behind by tapping him on the butt with the end of the reins, soft, just persistant, then I would click and reinforce him for any forward try. He caught on really quick and I got him to go up and down the pasture fence and stop good, at mostly just a word. I need to work on the turning a little. I swear I think the little kids where I keep him could ride him, he's really easy. I don't think I'm really going to do that though, the kids break ponies, I might see if I could talk one of them into getting on him to be lead first next spring. They are tiny. I don't think it would bother him at all. The thing is, I think that we can bring these guys around, they are not necessarily destined to shut us out continually by turning their butts to us, I do think it is a way to shut us out. I call it "giving me the butt". Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Oh, and....
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Virginia Tupper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Page 185-186: > > "Another survival technique has developed in marshy regions: > fighting instead of fleeing. That means that the flight behaviour of > certain natural horses, for example Icelandic horses has fundamentally > changed, even regressed." > > Which is his reasoning to why you don't train Icelandics in the same > ways as other horses. > > V > It's something to think about, I think the Icelandics (mine anyway) are a little less likely try and flee out of fear, but I don't think it is totally extinct in them, it's there somewhere. Even in the mules, who are similar, it's in there somewhere, if it really came down to it, it's just not on the surface as much. They (Icelandics and mules) will walk away from something they don't want to be around, but usually don't panic and run away mindlessly. I'm not sure how I would train them differently though, the techniques I have always used on my Icelandics and mules, they work just fine with my "other horse":) Of course I have to think about what to do in each situation, and with each horse as an individual, that always changes, but the basics stay the same. Maybe is this related to that saying that "you should train a horse the way you have to train a mule" (something like that)? I am certain that horse trainers who use sloppy techniques, whatever you want to call it, they are not going to work with mules, they don't work too well with Icelandics either, I think that's how we get either shut down horses, or bolting ones. They actually probably don't work too well with regular horses either. I just am not totally sure what he is talking about. Good horsemanship works with all of them. I think good horsemanship is like a flowing river, it can change and adapt to fit the situation, not like ice, where there is a prescribed set of rules to use, and someone tries to use them in the same way in every situation. Basically, it comes down to you and your horse, and you have to face each other and work it out together. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Hempfling says:
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Virginia Tupper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > "I have never met a tolting horse whose rider I could proclaim > innocent of any 'underhand' actions. It is only because so many use > dubious training methods," > > "...I have not heard of anyone, least of all a professional, who could > do justice to the task." (training tolt) I wonder what he is talking about? "training tolt"? I think there is a big difference between fine tuning gaits of a naturally gaited horse, and actually putting tolt on a horse who doesn't really have gait. > He also says that Icelandics being from the character type he calls > the 'Origin' is anything but easy to work with, is strong-willed and > not a childs or beginners horse. > > In so many words he also says they cannot be trained the same way > other horses are because they are different, more in tune with life > forces, primitive, etc etc. > I don't really see it this way, that they are not easy to work with. I do think I agree with the very last part of the statment that, they are a bit different, primitive maybe, in a good way, but I see them as very easy to work with, strong willed? I guess I can see a hint, I think of it as a positive, more like intelligent and can think for themselves, next to the mules though, there is just a hint of it. I have not fully trained a regular horse yet, I'm not totally sure what he means by "they cannot be trained in the same way"??? I'm not sure what this really means. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Dropped Nosebands
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Mic Rushen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 04:52:26 -0400, you wrote: > > >Those feet are as long as show Saddlebreds.. > > What I don't get is that at a show in the UK, no way would feet that > long be permitted. Under FIPO rules, they should NOT be permitted - > yet at a world championships, after several inspections, they were > allowed. > > I have seen pretty long feet on a horse at a show in the US, maybe not as long as on that horse though. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Fox Trot
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Ryder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > >>>However, it does hold negative connotations > > - "it's not "proper" tolt, it's TROTTY tolt" rather than "oh look, > > what a super fox trot". > > That's limiting, tho, for those Icelandic Horses that are conformed for, and > naturally fox trot, which is a super gait, very smooth, and easy on the > horse. > > I'm not sure why this breed, or the people connected with it seem so draconian about this. Really, in talking to my other breeder friends, they were not like this. They breed saddle horses, who really are supposed to rack, and all of theirs did, but when I mentioned foxtrot to them, they said "that's a very smooth gait", I really don't think they would freak out about it like this if one of their horses did it, and it wouldn't be called a fault, it would just be a trail horse, not a show horse, but the thing is, they are pretty good at breeding for natural gait to begin with, and I don't think this has actually come up. Their horse don't have to be "gait trained" anyway, they just gait. Dari foxtrots, doesn't tolt, without difficult and strain on him, so he is not a show horse, he is very smooth to ride. I just think that acknowleding the different gaits, for the purposes of a pleasure horse is better for the horse, it might be better for the rider too, the foxtrot is a nice smooth gait, very good for trail riding, I think it is probably not so hard on the horse as something more toward the rack. It might actually be desireable for some people looking for a trail horse. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Ignoring Behaviors
> > 6. Put the behavior on cue...then withhold the cue > I'm trying this one on my mule. Zoe has gotten into the habit of taping me on the leg with her front foot when I turn around and give another horse attention, of course I turn around to tell her no:) so she gets attention for it, gets what she wants, and does it again. Last time I was out there I decided to "teach" her to shake, using this behavior. After I left I wasn't sure if this was a good idea or not, I was worried it would just get her to doing it more. Today she didn't tap me on the leg, but I did ask her to "shake" again when she stopped and was standing there. Maybe it will work to put it on a cue and turn it into something else. It's a little hard to ignore this one. Kim
[IceHorses] "Catching" a horse
Tonight I finally got a break and went to say hi to my guys. When I got there, there was an extra mule in the pasture, one with a halter and leadrope on. A scared to death 2 year old john who had apparently gotten loose from a ponying exercise and gotten into the pasture with my guys. Every time I looked at the mule he turned away, and/or ran away. His owner came in and told me what happened, a teenage Amish kid. He really wasn't having any luck with catching the mule. I ran and got my clicker. I told him I have a little tool that might help us get him faster. This mule did not know what a clicker was, I don't think he was ever hand fed before. First I noticed that he was watching and noticing that my herd was surrounding me and not afraid of me, that they seemed to want to be around me. I clicked him every time he looked at me, or turned his head my way. I was slowly able to get closer and closer to him, with my back turned away, really working on making my energy small and harmless feeling to him, and then trying to reach out with my arm, still facing away from him. After several times I was able to get him to stand still and not run away, and finally face me and stand still, then I got his lead rope. I slowly approached him and held out my hand, still trying to feel harmless to him, he jumped a couple of times when my hand touched his whiskers, but he finally felt the food and took a little bite. He then let me pet his neck, he was still pretty on guard, but was thinking this was ok, and he let me pet his back and rub his sides, still ok, but still watching me. I started asking him to lead, he wouldn't go forward, but was starting to follow me in circles, I wanted to see how much I might be able to get him to follow on feel, not pull him. This really only took maybe ten minutes. The owner did note that my mules really seem to know what that clicker means:) He also asked what I was giving him, just a little grain. I really think he saw that this works, I just told him, the mule is scared to death and that mules have to decide for themselves when they think something is safe to do. Mine were all trying to get in on it, but you know, I felt so good, they seemed to know what I was doing and they backed off when I asked. Celie started to sort of chase the mule a couple of times, and I snapped my fingers at her and called her name, maybe said "Quit it" and she stopped immediately and came to me. It really gave me clear focus about how far I have come with my horses, Icelandics, and mules. They are really pretty obediant compared to this mule just starting out, and this is the spot we started at, even if I am not riding them all quite yet:) I also saw that now I seem to have learned something, and what may have taken me much longer a few years ago, takes much less time now, even with an animal I don't know. It really felt good to try and be a good example, and to be able to help the mule and the guy save themselves from stress. I gave the mule back to his owner to lead out of the pasture, this kid, I'm sure has broken way more horses than I ever could in my lifetime, so I didn't really want to overstep. I don't think he minded that he didn't have to chase the mule until sundown though. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Alex the African Gray: O/T
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Cherie Mascis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > > African Grays and Amazon parrots love words spoken loudly and emphatically and loud sound effects. They often pick up sounds like things shouted on TV, cuss words, squeaky doors, barking dogs, bedroom sounds and other things we would rather they not repeat! Yes, yes, yes, and yes. Matisse, my Grey, did the sound of the garbage truck backing up for years, this is really where I had to learn to ignore behavior I didn't want to extinguish it, it was really hard, that "beep-beep-beep" really grated on my nerves, and the more I let him know something bothered me, the more he would do it. We don't have these kinds of trucks around here, not many sirens either, it's better living in a more rural area. >I had to fire a parrot from our Marine World show because it would >say "shit" under it's breath while it was doing tricks, and it would >be picked up by the microphone! > My lovely older brother thought it would be funny to leave a message on the anwering machine for Matisse, my brother kept repeating, literally "puck you", but that is not what it sounded like when Matisse instantly picked this up and it became his favorite thing to shout across the house. It took a couple of years for this one to go away by ignoring it and making sure he never heard it again. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: The coyote enters the Majan Empire
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Robyn Schulze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 9/10/07, Laree Shulman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Also, they said these dogs are raised to do a job > > and are not cuddly pets to bring indoors. Some of the breeds are not > > wired to need huge amounts of human interaction and are happier being > > outside. The herd becomes their social group. > > I've heard this same thing about them. What do you want a guard dog > for? I wonder if your mule (or is it a donkey?) would serve the same > purpose. First, my Great Pyrenees is a cuddly pet who lives indoors:) He is not bothered by the heat because he stay in front of the air conditioning vet inside. I really don't think this is a dog for everyone, especially inside, he's like a huge cotton ball, always shedding, we are always cleaning. He loves the company of his people, he likes to get on the couch and eat popcorn like any other dog:) He is just the sweetest dog I have ever met and he does have a job. He protects the house from people who drive by or think they want to come up on the porch to knock on the door. He thinks the house (especially) and the yard are his territory, so anyone who doesn't belong there he will want to chase off, including cats, birds, whatever. He knows which cats belong and they love to rub on him, he is very tolerant. He does allow the people who mow the lawn to be in the yard without much barking, I told him we want them there, but if an unexpected stranger comes to the door, he goes nuts. There have actually been some armed robberies around here lately, I am pretty sure I'm not going to wake up to find an armed robber standing over me. I think the mules do a fine job of keeping dangers out of the pasture. They usually don't like dogs, but seem to have accepted the small herding dog where they are now. I always warn people, I would really feel terrible if my mules killed their dog. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Alex the African Gray: O/T
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >- so he's probably in the 25-30-ish year range, maybe even older. I > was shocked when the avian vet told us that Crackers is the oldest of his > clients, and by a good bit. So, I'm pretty comfortable that Alex wasn't > close to being an age record-holder, but I'm not sure that we really know > how close to average that made him. I've had my African Grey since he was about 3 months old, I finished weaning him. He hatched on mother's day 1990, I know for sure how old he is. He's 17 this year. Sometimes vets like to be negative, but I had one tell me that many of them she saw didn't live past 8 or 9 years old. I went straight to the bird vet in San Diego when I got this bird, so I could find out what he is supposed to eat. Mine has never eaten seed in his life, my vet told me not to feed seed, I feed mine all kinds of people food, meat, eggs, fruit, vegetables, beans, etc. So far so good. I got him used to tasting all kinds of food when he was young, he will at least taste anything, if he figures out that he does not like it, he will shake his head no when I offer it to him. He does have requests sometimes, when I put his food in the other day he said "Pasta?", it wasn't, but I went and bought him some, he also sometimes requests "Pizza" and "Want to eat some beans":)If I don't cover him early enough and he gets tired, he will say "Want to go to sleep", I can't really even count how many words he says. He loves imitating the cats, they are his friends. I swear sometimes he shares food with them, he drops what he doesn't want so they can get it. These birds are smart. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: hay
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Robyn Schulze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > They are > complaining about the lack of hay, so I guess it's bad all over your > area--the whole SW maybe? Hay might be scarce here in Ky this winter. We had 6 weeks without rain in the spring, we are in a stretch without rain again now. This is one of the reasons I moved the horses, I am pretty sure that the family they are with now has plenty of hay, they put it up themselves. I might have to chip in more money towards the hay because of the price going up (they were going to include the hay in the board), but I'm not going to have to go around looking for it. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Sunday morning fun
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Marilyn likes Frank - she's very tolerant. > Marilyn looks similar to my little white cat. I love pugs:) My white cat loves my Pyrenees. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Differences -- Janice
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Ryder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You can get a *general* idea of differences between breeds, but always look > at the individual horse as you may find the perfect horse by doing so. > > If you like short, Icelandics have it, altho we had a 14 hand TWH that was > superb! > > If you like calm, not all, but most Icelandics have it, altho some TWHs can > be just as calm as Icelandics. > > If you like gaited, TWH are more gaited, in my opinion, than Icelandics. > I do find my Icelandics to be easier to handle, not really spooky, not much spook to speak of at all, although Snorri was afraid of some objects for a while. I'm not totally sure if he is over it, I will find out. The Icelandics are quieter though, mine are, more reserved generally. Maybe it's just because the mares take over:)My Kentucky mare does have the most gait though. I think Snorri will have plenty of gait, he takes steps of gait on his own and can gait on a lead line. The mare has tons of gait though, pretty 4 beat on her own in the pasture, I don't think she will be pacey, but I can't really know that for sure until I ride her. I really wouldn't think this from watching her and from having ridden her parents. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: The coyote enters the Majan Empire
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > Do they get cats? Absolutely. We lost countless cats in California, because of this, I still keep all my cats in, well except for the ones from the neighborhood who took up residence on the back porch:) > where I've been taking little Frank out for potty training. Frank looks > awfully little and vulnerable now...I sure won't be leaving him unattended > any time soon. > I would watch it with a small dog. I think they are much more like to go after small pets than livestock really. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: The coyote enters the Majan Empire
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I started > screaming - my initial reaction was goofy. That's the pasture the young > foals live in, and for an instant I forgot they are in the back > pastures...and that they really are long yearlings now. When I screamed, he > started running and Maja and Flekka ran for an instant. Coyotes can come out at any time. Sometimes they will yip at night. I love them:) I see them once in a while around here. They are pretty clever and usually keep out of sight. I'm not really too worried about them, maybe with newborns, I have heard they will take down the calves around here. Many people keep donkeys out with the cattle, that should take care of it, other people shoot them. I have no worried with the mules around, it sounds like your Icelandics took care of them. Really, there is more of a problem with them eating cats, chickens, small animals, that's always been my experience. In California we had tons of them, I lived in the high desert and they would yip every night, it was kind of haunting. I hear them once in a while around here. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Virtual Rides / Mic
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Mic Rushen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > Our favourite beach for riding - Newgale > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeW_JtmU66Y > I've been missing the water a lot lately. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Riding Styles / Snaffles / Icelandic Bit
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Ryder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Do any gaited breeds currently use a long shank with a broken mouthpiece? > I think I have seen people use these. > If so, what would the reason be? > That's just what they think they should do. I think that their reasoning is that they can keep the horse in frame to gait with that kind of bit. I can't really see a good reason, not a real reason. I don't know why they can't go in some kind of mild bit, or with a sidepull. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: BEARS
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Robyn Hood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > No relation to Maja. We find our horses in general run towards weird things > - like hot air balloons, kites, strange dogs in the pasture ... > It sounds kind of funny:) My mules will do that, when a moose appeared on the ridge above the house, the mules all snorted and ran in circles, Dari headed for the back corner of the pasture, as far as he could go:) I think he was the smart one in that situation. I don't think we ever had any bears, not that I know of. I never saw one the entire two years I was in Montana, I'm not so sure I want to see one, not that close anyway, defintely not in the horse pasture, I'm glad it turned out ok. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Horse Training in Iceland / Horsemanship
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Janice McDonald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > i know, you think, well, you dont want to spoil them, but they are > used to you and the way you do things, then when someone real strict > and stern comes along they are so afraid and startled they shut down > the thinking part of the brain and go into the reactive part which is > not learning at all. I have a problem of being too lenient then when > I get fed up oh my god my horses scatter like I am godzilla, rising > from the sea. But they KNOW me... > I really don't think it has to be done at these extremes. I have watched people put fear into a horse, and I have watched develop a relationship with a horse. It takes learning skills to develop the latter, just like with any good relationship. It's like counseling for us and our horses:) I have some fiesty ones, they are really all willing though. They have gotten really scared about things sometimes, but the more they trust me, they more they go with me and trust that I am not asking them to do something that will get them killed. I watched Leslie Desmond this spring (I am going to try and think of a way to go watch her again this month), I really got something out of it. She never scared the horse, she didn't get "strict and stern", there were rules, but she also let the horse have a say, always. There was a lot of "space" and lightness in what they did with the horse, no popping, no whiping, no spurs, really working off energy, body language, not even a lot of physical contact. It was really amazing. It can be done, it just takes dedication and a lot of work, I think dedication to self change mostly. Leslie kept talking about how having a relationship with your horse will ensure your safety, like if the horse is scared of you, and you start to fall off, they will be thinking, "Here is my chance to get rid of this thing!" and they will really get rid of you. I talked with Leslie about this: Dari once fell with me riding, he laid calmly and waited until we both got our bearings and then gently got up. No freaking out, we were both hurt, but it wasn't made any worse. A girl I used to board with, really just thinks of horses as her show animals, I don't see a lot of attachment to them, her horse fell on her and kicked her in the face. I really think it's important that they really like us and trust us, there can still be rules, in fact I think they want to know the boundaries, it helps shape their lives, just like kids like to have boundaries. It doesn't have to be mean. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Horse Training in Iceland / Horsemanship
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Mic Rushen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 15:04:45 -, you wrote: > > >Dari was refusing to move at times, an associate of > >Bruno's started out riding Dari, he started refusing, Bruno fixed > >that. > > This is unclear - are you saying Bruno Podlech himself rode Dari, or > an associate of his? > Both of them, first the associate, then Bruno. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: The Icelandic Horse's Image
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Lorraine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > though I never ever did more than a tap... > > > > > When I did the Grand Canyon ride they made us carry > crops. They wanted us to wail on them if they didn't > keep up. They insisted it wouldn't hurt them because > they were thick skinned. My mule was so good I never > used it at all. Thank goodness. > But horses (and mules) can feel a fly landing on their skin, they are very sensitive, they will actually respond to very, very light cues, if they know what you want. I think the truth is more like, people make the horses shut down by confusing them, then you have to give really exagerated cues to try and get them to respond. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Horse Training in Iceland / Horsemanship
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Mic Rushen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 09:55:56 -0700, you wrote: > > >Did Bruno start riding bareback and bridleless because he saw LTJ do it? > He did it because he has a good relationship with his horse. > >He started after it was presented on the list. > He doesn't even speak English > I think Bruno has been doing this for a while. It's great that he has a good relationship with his horse, we assume. I always question how people got to a certain place, how they trained their horses, it's the process to me that is most important. The horses opinion is most important to me. Dari didn't like Bruno much:) I let Bruno take Dari on a trail ride, Dari was having a problem with stopping and refusing to go (I now suspect that he may have already been having whatever problem he has, IR?, he started to have bouts of laminitis soon after this and later came up with almost no thyroid, he was a zombie when a vet finally figured it out a couple of years after this), anyway, Dari was refusing to move at times, an associate of Bruno's started out riding Dari, he started refusing, Bruno fixed that. Dari came back a goey Icelandic who is still to this day terrified of whips. He didn't refuse to move anymore. I really think it set up a permanent distrust somewhere in his mind. Fantastic! I was looking for a little help, I really wish I had found a different kind of help. I really think there is a better way to address this kind of thing. This is why I really like good horsemanship, it is fair to the horse. I am very concerned about HOW, we get to a certain place. It doesn't need to go this way, not at all. It's hard just to sit back and not say anything when I know something. Kim really still feeling guilty about allowing this to happen
[IceHorses] Re: Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Robyn Hood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > Nice to have a horse like Dari that is such a good ambassador for the breed. > He's from Judy Pittman isn't he? We have gotten some nice young horses from > her that have been easy to train with easy gaits. Dari is from Elizabeth Haug. Snorri is from Judy Pittman. I think Snorri is just as nice as Dari though, Snorri is more laterally gaited though. I think you had Snorri's full brother up there, Kapfteinn? Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Robyn Hood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The older trainer walked over took the strap off the horse and threw it on > the ground, berating the younger trainer in Icelandic about what a terrible > thing that was to do with a horse. I think that takes some guts and is > looking to be an advocate for the horse. > I can imagine that, I knew older people like that when I was young, older cowboy types, who didn't believe in harsh bits, who stopped people from yanking on horse's mouths, who believed in giving the horse a chance. In my mind, the Iceland that we are connected to here is very competition oriented, they are the ones in the spotlight, that can make a big difference, the horse's welfare gets pushed aside, winning and selling horses at any cost comes to the forefront. I think there is a market for trail horses here though. I only took Dari on a couple of rides in Daniel Boone National Forest, I clearly remember a group of men admiring him and saying that he thought his wife would ride a pony like Dari, probably a middle aged woman, afraid of horses:) Dari is very good. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Kicking
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I seriously doubt that "kicking" is a genetic mental defect. I just don't > see that. That's what I think really, in fact kicking isn't really as aggressive as biting in a horse, that's what I've always heard. > > >>> Horses kick for two reasons... they're afraid of you or they don't like > you! That's the big, distasteful truth! Fearful horses kick in defense, > dominant horses kick out of resentment and dominance. Either way, smacking > the horse for it doesn't work. You need to get the horse to where he > trusts you, likes you, respects you... and none of that is achieved through > violence. I was thinking the same thing, I was going to go to the Parelli website, because there are a lot of things posted on different problems there. I was thinking about the horse who tried to kick me years ago, who I thought "hated people", if he were my horse, I would start by making friends with him, when they like you, feel comfortable with you, know you, they are really less likely to kick you. >First of all, stay out of the kick zone. That's always a good one:) I really do not like being anywhere in a horse's kick zone, especially one I don't know. Even with my own, I make sure they know I am there. I go right behind Zoe and pull her tail and she backs up to me, she's not going to kick me, she has kicked someone though, it was in the trailer with commotion going on (I was told) and he was standing right behind her, it's possible that she thought it was another horse, I am pretty sure she thought something scary was probably going on. She will kick out of fear. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: How To Ride An Icelandic Horse
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Mic Rushen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > I've had Icelandics for over 20 years, and bred many foals. Once or > twice, frightened foals have kicked, but that mare was the only adult > I ever knew try to kick me intentionally. And she will not have the > opportunity again, nor pass on her temperament disposed for it. > Where do you think this comes from? Genetics? Is this what we are talking about when we say there are some mentally unstable horses in this breed? I had a horse try to kick me purposely, I had a feeling he was going to do it, an Appy someone got at an auction, I kept telling the lady where I boarded that I was scared to take the poop out into the field when that horse was there, she made me feel like I was being ridiculous, so I took it out to dump it, then that gelding ran up and kicked at me, he hit the wheelbarrow instead. There was an incident with an Icelandic, trained in Germany. He came, got out of quarentine and was scared to death. They had me take him in a stall (alone, no other horse) and I could tell he was about to lose it, I called for help, the importer came in and gave him a good, hard jerk on his rope (a short one, maybe a couple of feet long for the traveling), and he reared up and struck her in the shoulder. I felt like he was pushed into doing that. She was abusive, she came down on me and told me it was all my fault, I hadn't been aggressive enough with him, and that's how he got the idea he could do that to her, I wasn't even standing near them, when that happened:) Ego and horse handling don't mix very well. We put another horse in the stall with him and he was fine. This was a horse more on the sensitive side, pretty spooky, probably not for everyone, gorgeous though. I don't think he was mean, just mistrustful, scared, and those emotions in a horse don't call for aggression, that just makes the whole thing worse. I think the purposely kicking could be different than a fear kick, I'm not sure what was going on with the Appy, I felt like he hated people, he wasn't my horse, I knew nothing about him, maybe it could have been the way he was treated? I don't know. I do, myself, follow the old rule, never to stand behind a horse. I do stand behind my own horses, once I get to know them, and when I make sure they know I am there, you won't catch me standing behind horses I don't know. I really don't want to go into pastures with horses I don't know. My mules have each kicked a person (not me), I don't think they have mental defects, or any problems really. I wasn't there, so I didn't really see what happened, I suspect though, that something did happen on the part of the human, maybe bad judgment. It's just hard to say, neither has done it since, they've never done something like this in my presence. I still can't imagine either of my Icelandics taking a kick at someone, I just don't think they have it in them, Dari definitely not, I've had him 13 years, and he has never attempted to bite a person, or kick a person and he's been with me since he was 8 months old. So, I wonder what other people feel, with other breeds, would we put a horse down because they kicked someone? does it make any sense to try and further analyze the problem that is occuring? can these things possibly be transformed? I know there maybe some cases of Icelandics that are just too tough, that really might be a mental defect, where is that line? how often is this showing up? Kim
[IceHorses] Re: How To Ride An Icelandic Horse
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Robyn Hood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have worked with many foals of other breeds and IME it is very rare for an > Icelandic foal to kick, no matter how frightened. Yes it can happen but it > is extremely rare. That is not the case with most other breeds - kicking is > a stronger reflex in many of them. > I think this is true, it's very hard for me to imagine one of my Icelandics kicking anybody, they hardly ever kick each other. Snorri just backs up toward others, pretending he is going to kick, I don't think he ever really does it. Dari nips the other, doesn't do the pretend kicking thing, they all listen to him though and he doesn't do any damage. Now the mules are a different story:) I don't think they will kick me, but I can't promise anyone else, and they are quick to kick at other horses. The mare is the same, I can't see her kicking a person really, but she will kick other horses to protect herself. Contact is rarely made between any of them, it's mostly just defensive warnings. I do think the Icelandics are exceptionally easy to handle. They are very calm and patient, they seem to think before they act. That's why is so hard for me to imagine sometimes, how these sweet docile horses, go from that, to freaking out and hurting people, I mean I imagine something really extreme has happened to get them to that place. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: was Fly spray now phobias etc
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Robyn Hood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I have met some horses, in all breeds, who had kind of phobias about > different things. Fly spray being one of them. Funny sound, weird smell in > lots of cases, who knows. Why do some people have phobias, even when > logically it makes no sense, at least to others? I think this is true. I have one who had a gate phobia, I really have no idea why. I've known her since birth, there is nothing I can think of. We worked through that one. Another really has a phobia of any kind of spray, others let me spray them at liberty in the pasture, and others only if they are held with a halter. That is just them, there was no training in this. I don't really even bother with fly spray, it just doesn't work well enough. I did use some of that intense spot fly repellant a few weeks ago, that seems to actually work for a while, and nobody was bothered by the application. Anyway, the place I have them now is very clean and there aren't really as many flies, even though there are many more animals. I have also had horses who would freak about chemical fly spray, but stand fine for natural. > > It is interesting that humans seem to expect a higher standard of consistent > behaviour in animals than we do in ourselves. Imagine if you were sitting > in a restaurant and someone comes up and starts taking things off your > plate. Would you like it? Probably not, but we expect dogs to willingly > give up a juicy bone or whatever it is that we want them to. > >> > Change the context and you change the experience - a new place, different > person, slightly different style... > I think it is good to give animals a break. Realize that they are living, breathing beings, not our slaves. If I were the horse, how would I want my person to treat me? I think I'm doing ok there, mine seem happy. I like to try and be compassionate to their fears, I've said this before, I was always a little scared to jump off the high dive at the pool, I sure would not like it if someone came up behind me and pushed me off before I was ready, I think we do things like that to our horses a lot, it's ok for them to be scared of some things, it's their genuine selves, we can give them a minute, give some space to the situation, take a deep breath ourselves, it works out much better that way. Kim
Fw: Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Robyn Schulze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > HEY JUDY! Can you re-post that photo of the moron w/ the colt, who's > allowing said colt to not only have its front feet on the juy's > shoulders, but is also biting the guy in the neck at the same time? > I saw that, but my impression was that they guy lifted the colt up in that position and seemed to be holding him there, honestly, I can't blame the colt for biting the guy in the neck for doing that. I have just never had the experience of a colt trying to jump on me of their own accord. I've been through about 6 of my own in the last few years, since 2003?, none of them ever tried anything like that, not even close. They did, however, jump on each other, so the behavior was there, just not directed at people. If anything, 5 out of 6 of them were more on the skittish side when it came to people, at first, we had to make friends with each one. Biting, a few would give a nip at times, even Snorri the Icelandic gave me a good nip once. Snorri is a totally different guy with the other horses than he is with people. He is very quiet, polite with people. With other horses, he's a little terror:) Not really that bad, but he sends the mares off screaming many times. I was just thinking that it's really not my general impression that colts, of any breed, tend to try and jump on people, and that it would be the result of just handling them. I really don't think it's horse nature to want to do that to people, most times I really think they would rather go away. If they are doing that, I would suspect that a person has probably intervened and created that kind of behavior, it's really hard for me to imagine it would be too easy to create though. Kim
Fw: Re: [IceHorses] Horse Training in Iceland / Handling Foals
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Mic Rushen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That's a good idea, but having seen how much people can mess up
babies
> even before they are weaned ("Oh it's just soo cute when he
> nibbles/kicks/rears up and puts his feet on my shoulders" - yuck)
it's
> not infallible.
>
I don't think this would fall under good horsemanship (ie, "correct"
handling). I've never had a young one actually try to jump on me,
does this really happen? Nibble, yes, I only have one who ever tries
to do this now, 2 year old mare, I find that if I politely and
softly push her head away from me, she stops. I let my horses come
close to me and there are some rules, no biting, no kicking, even at
other horses when I am around, no pushing. They can be taught to
follow the rules, I've been around horses as long as I can remember
(almost) and I think some of it comes naturally to me. I like being
close with them, they can be very sweet and at the same time they
follow directions and be safe riding horses. I actually let them
touch me with their noses, they are taught what is appropriate, no
biting, four out of five of them never try to bite at this point, 2
of them have never even tried it in their lives, each of the other 3
has given me at least one good bite each when I first started
working with them, this behavior is natural in certain individuals
and can be extinguished, and I still am able to let them close to
me, and able to let them touch me with their noses, they are very
smart, they get it. A couple of them like to put their heads on my
shoulder and give me a horse hug, I love it.
I just wanted to put another perspective out there, it seems like
some people think that either horses are to be kept at a distance
from us, in order to keep them from doing anything dangerous, or if
we let them close, they will inevitably be out of control, no
boundaries, dangerous for sure. We are getting awfully close to them
when we are on their backs, you would think that you would want to
trust them completely in any direction, before you go and get on
their backs, if you think about it, being on their backs is a pretty
precarious position. I don't really think horses are that dangerous,
if you understand them, make friends with them, and set up a few
rules, they are actually pretty easy to get along with, Icelandics
even more so.
Kim
[IceHorses] Re: How To Ride An Icelandic Horse
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Ryder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> How to Ride an Icelandic Horse > > > > Is this a joke page? > > You can post comments on the article, hmm, I wonder who wrote this? Kim
[IceHorses] Great Clicker Training Video
I love this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jxh8FT7iGLQ I want to try it this way and see if I can get mine to do this. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Charm Wants to Come in the House
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Ryder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > http://iceryder.net/videocharmhouse.html Why can't she come into the house?:) Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Rider's Seat and Hands
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Ryder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > In this picture: > > http://frontpage.simnet.is/sandraograggi/Myndir_2007_II/katina_forsal e.jpg > > what do you think of the rider's seat and his hands? He's too far back on the saddle, his hands are too high, the whole picture looks percarious, like he is separate from the horse, a passenger. > > Does it look like the horse is easily or naturally gaited? > I can't really tell for sure. I would guess she has some natural gait. I tend to think that horses who are described as 5-gaited have some natural gait. I'm not sure how they could really show any pace if there were too much on the trotty side. I think I might be a little worried that she might be too pacey, naturally. She appears to have shoes and bellboots on the front and no shoes on the back, and she is still tending a slight bit towards pace. I really would not want a horse where I would have to keep some sort of weight on the front in order to fight the paciness, or risk taking all the shoes off and having to work with a pacey horse. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Freak Show? <:{
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Mic Rushen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >I would say in the US, these kinds of devices are widely used. > > Yuck. Poor horses. It's a shame you can't get them banned in the US, > then perhaps they wouldn't creep into other breeds in Europe, as so > far it seems they are not widely known or used. But with the way all > other forms of US culture spread no doubt eventually they will be. > > The good part is that I think the worst of the worst is facing opposition. Even here, in rural Ky, the TWH show was shut down last year. I heard from a source that a federal inspector was visiting a relative down here and heard about the show and decided to go see, when people found out that he was there, they wouldn't take their horses off the trailers and didn't show. The spotted saddle horses seem to be much more popular at the shows now than the TWH's. They are more natural, flat shod. I can't really say for sure what is going on out there with the Spotted Saddle Horses, I just don't know what people do. I do know that the Rockys and Kentucky Mountain Saddle Horses can only have factory shoes, the same on all feet or barefoot. I think the action should not be very high with the Rockys, but I think there might be some classes with KMS horses where more action is ok. I did see that there was a huge trail show not too far from here for KMS horses. I think that is more positive. I will use good horsemanship in training my Icelandic and KMSH and see what I can do with them. I think it would be fun to show up and at least set a good example. It's not going to be for a few years before I can get them out there though. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Freak Show? <:{
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Mic Rushen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Yes, but that's a result of bad riding/training, not of keeping the > horse in a dark stable then bringing it out only for the show. > > We were talking about the unnatural way the stallion Clout is probably > kept, in order to bring about such unnatural animation when he's > allowed out. This is not the same discussion as the usual poor > riding/training etc. > Do you really think that Clout is a product of merely keeping him in a dark stall? I seen this first hand. Although I have fond memories of my childhood, taking lessons at the Saddlebred barn and hanging around there all the time, I do remember what they did to the horses. All of the Saddlebreds were kept in the barn all the time. They never let them out to run free. This was mostly to keep them clean and to prevent them from pulling shoes. We know I am not for this, I think it makes horses go crazy. Mine are all out 24/7 without shoes. At the Saddlebred barn they would often use wooden balls on leather straps that go around the horse's legs, or chains, they let the hooves grow unnaturally long, probably use a bit of a heavier shoe. I have actually seen someone use a weighted leather strap on Icelandics to manipulate gaits. This was in CA. They said they bought it in Germany. It is a little different than the wooden balls and chains, those are meant to increase action by hitting the horse above the horse, a form of soring in my mind, and the leather weighted straps were meant to change the footfall, but the weight still increased the action. You cannot create a horse like this through keeping them in a dark stall alone. I would bet that he has had some sort of devices used on him. The connection to me, and the reason I think we are talking about this, is that I don't want to see this kind of thing creep into Icelandics. I would say in the US, these kinds of devices are widely used. I can go to any show and see racks of chains, metal balls, wooden balls, all for increasing action and/ or manipulating gait. It really makes me sick. I also believe there is a movement for a natural gaited horse and this is becoming more and more important to people and hopefully the devices are on their way out. I don't see the difference between what we are looking at with Icelandics (flash nosebands?) and other manipulations, none of them are good for the horses. I like to see more naturally gaited horses who are started and trained in a relaxed manner giving some freedom to the horse. I am going to try and do what I can around here. Spotted saddle horses are apparently becoming very popular. I work with a guy who has something to do with the shows. I would love to try and get them to have an all gaited horse trail class and be able to take Snorri to something like this. I have a feeling that I may be able to get them to do it, if I take responsibility for it and sponsor it and everything like that:) It may take a couple of years while I am waiting for him to grow up though. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Straight Shoulders
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Virginia Tupper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Elastics!! Where would they put elastics? > V > I saw one woman basically tie the front legs together with rubber tubing, it makes the horse have very exagerated action. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Freak Show? <:{
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Mic Rushen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > It was actually after that particular incident at the WC that the FIPO > was first changed to prohibit "unnatural training practises" like > Robyn mentions from being used with Icelandics. Which practices were prohibited? >Certainly we've not > seen horses since with that "scared of the light" appearance. > Well...not exactly a "scared of the light" look, but maybe a facial expression that looks like the pain of the rider trying to pull the horses lips up to their eyes:) I am equally disgusted by such practices no matter who is doing it, my next door neighbor or someone half way across the world, I really don't see that the practices with Icelandics are much better and unfortunately it doesn't seem to be headed in a better direction on its own. Saddlebreds were not so extreme once upon a time, neither were TWH's. There is a trend toward a trail suitable gaited horse in the US. You won't see this kind of action with the RMH's, it will get negative marks, most of the time, it's not the ideal. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Speaking of enhanced knee action
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Or, is his leg contorting outwards, such that the bottom of his foot is out > beside his elbow? To me, it looks like the latter...? > Whoa! I think that's what it looks like, that is ridiculously high action! That is just not practical, bizarre... Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Freak Show? <:{
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I've never ridden a park Saddlebred, but I've seen them ridden. I have an > ancient copy of the Helen Crabtree Saddle Seat Equitation. I can assure > you it's quite possible to post correctly to a saddlebred's trot. Absolutely, it's not supposed to look anything like that. I rode saddlebreds as a child and again in college, and they have big trots, that man shouldn't be flying all around like that, his arms are going up and down, it's not good:) It really reminded me that I probably learned my foundations of equitation from my childhood riding teachers, seeing his hands reminded me of them drilling me on how to keep my hands still, on posting a trot like that without stirrups, it wasn't easy. I'm pretty turned off by the saddleseat I have seen around here, I don't think it's really a good way to ride. I want to see more relaxed and natural. I do like saddlebred horses though, it might be that the show horses are pretty high strung today, but I have met some really good tempered nice saddlebreds before, they were originally bred to be good reliable riding horses. > > Oh...wait...I made that exact same comment recently about some other big > ignorant buffoons. I guess there are blissfully ignorant rednecks on every > continent...and on every island > Exactly, I don't think we have ever denied that there are some complete idiots in horses around here. We aren't the ones who are in denial:) Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Too Much, Too Soon
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >I happen to be lucky enough to have a 98-pound > professional trainer, who has tons of experience in the gentle starting of > horses in my neighborhood... so that clarifies my definition of "small > rider"!) > The little Amish child (he looks like is is maybe 4 years old?) where I keep the horses now, says he has broken lots of ponies:) I guess he would be small enough, but I really don't think there is any hurry to really start riding Snorri at 4. I'm not really worried about his training, he is a good boy. I've had a bareback pad on him before, he leads, he's easy to handle, I really don't think he's going to be any trouble at all, I just think he is too small to ride. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Horses Electrocuted
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Janice McDonald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >I have been > wondering about lightning since last weekend. I moved my horses a couple of weeks ago to a new place. One reason was that the pasture was poor and I was having a hard time with the people who owned the place, this place has plenty of grass and they have enough hay for all the horses all winter, they put up their own hay. There is a bit of a hay shortage because we had 6 weeks without rain in the spring. Hay prices are high, high for this area anyway. The last straw was when two of their riding horses were struck by lightening and killed. They were standing next to the high tensile wire electric fence. I had been reading about this the week before it happened. It seems that this kind of fence might actually attract lightening and it is able to run down the fence easily. I know it can happen any time, it's not always avoidable, trees can be dangerous, but at least I don't want the horses where things might actually attract the lightening and make it easier. I doubt the electric tape would do this, I think it would just melt. I can't find a perfect place to board, but the food situation has straightened out. The problem with putting the horses in wooden barns in storms is that the barn can be set on fire by lightening, that would be good either. I doubt a metal barn would be good either. Most of the barns around here are wooden. I'm thinking when I build a barn, I want it to be made of cement block, I'm still not sure what I want the roof to be made of, but something that doesn't attract lightening and won't burn easily. We get some good storms here, the house I live in sits on the site of the oldest court house in Ky, it was struck by lightening and burned to the ground in about 1915, hopefully it's true that lightening doesn't strike twice in the same place. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Buyer Beware
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > He's in California? The shipping cost would be outrageous. I have lots of hay and lots of pasture. Too bad. > > > I keep thinking about this - if we could - or should - set up some >sort of list support system for rehabs? We have done it on the Mules only list, more than once, and been able to place some mules in good homes even when the people didn't have the money for shipping or whatever, but they were willing to take them and had a place for them. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Maja videos - groundwork and ground driving
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=D5E225EAA44DAB93 > > Boring stuff, I know, because we are slow... > No, that's good. The best way, without any drama or stress for the horse. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: In memory....
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > We found our wonderful old TWH gelding, Mac, dead in the pasture this > morning. > > It's so hard to lose these guys, I'm sure he had the best life he could have had with you, and that's what is really important. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Katla
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Ryder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Here's a young mare in Norway, showing off: > > http://iceryder.net/videokatlatrix.html > > That is a great video! Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Weight-Carrying Ability
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Virginia Tupper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Our Gat is 12.2 and I feel too big for her (I'm 120 lbs 5'4") -- my > daughter, Alex laughs when I ride Gat and says I look funny cuz I'm too big. > V I really doubt you are too big for Gat:) It doesn't sound like it! Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Weight-Carrying Ability
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "sarah gibson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > In fact my board owner ( who knows nothing about > Icelandics) - exclaimed "aren't they small but very, very strong and > can carry up to 300lbs!" when I talked to her about my interest in the > breed. Funny! > > Sarah > Msla, MT > That is a little scary! I don't think my little guys could comfortably carry nearly 300lbs. My guys are on the smaller side for Icelandics, maybe 12.2, but stout. I think that would be way too much. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: House Guest
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Ryder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Here's a little video (maybe boring to watch). The criteria is, of course, > very loose for her since it's her first time. > > http://iceryder.net/videoclickerpinto.html > She's adorable:) Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Another step in starting the mares...
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Robyn Hood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Anna > > >>>Is it that it mimics eating and thus a soothing, calming memory related > action or is it something physiological? I'll see if I can find more info > on that. > > There is a physiological aspect to eating as well. The eyes, mouth and > salivary glands are main controllers of the parasympathetic nervous system > which triggers relaxation. So letting them eat a bit, whether it be grazing > or a crunchie or bit of grain, does help trigger relaxation. The other > reasons we use food is that it helps them keep breathing more deeply as > opposed to holding their breath and it creates a pleasant experience > association with the activity. > It's interesting because I was also thinking of the connection or maybe analogy between eating/ loosening the jaw and holding the breath. I noticed when I watched Leslie Desmond that she put her hand in the horse's mouth to get him to chew and loosen his jaw, she said he was holding his jaw and chewing would get him to relax, she also talked a lot about the people holding their breath while working with a horse:) It can kind of make things tense. I moved all of my horses to a new pasture yesterday, each one of them had different levels of anxiety about it, and each showed it in a different way, they realize something different is going on, and getting on a trailer (they all loaded fine, in fact one mule almost dragged me into the trailer which is a change:)), but the two mules got extremely agitated, I decided I would let them eat some grass and it did settle them down a bit, and they completely settled right down when they were let into their new pasture, they just started eating:) I have a feeling I could have done better, I was probably holding my breath. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: NH w/Icelandics
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, pippa258 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Some nice videos of NH and Icelandics... > > Trish > Very nice, it looks like the people and horses are having fun. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Elisabeth and Tolta
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Ryder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Here is Elisabeth (Viking Saga / American Icelandics) and Tolta: > > http://iceryder.net/videoclickertolta.html > That's a nice video. Pretty mare. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: mounting disaster
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Janice McDonald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > i would guess this horse wasnt ready to be mounted, wouldnt you?? > geez > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-o0-r5bClE > Yep, I guess not. I saw this earlier, I think a lot of people have trouble reading horses. I'm not a cowboy:), so I take my time with them, make sure they are comfortable with what we are doing (not prancing around), don't push them too hard and I go with my gut when I think they have had enough, before anything happens. I'm really trying not to get hurt and I think most of it can be avoided. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: youtube horse kick
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Janice McDonald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > my gosh, whoever feels it would be safer in a cart than in a saddle > should see this... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0xnKnUOndI > That's pretty scary, I really feel safer on the horse. This came up when I looked at that one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00wORCOKNHw&mode=related&search= I think it's pretty funny, but interesting too, the horse, in my mind, is clearly telling this guy to lay off, but he doesn't listen. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: What the heck is this?
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>> Good grief...a pic in one of my vet books is very similar and they call it a ventral oedema "which is the result of a heart condition." > > Oh, let's hope there's another explanation. Holly had an odd lump on her chest once from a kick that swelled, then the swelling sort of settled and "sagged". Let's hope it's something that simple. Has it been there long? > I've also seen something like this on a horse's chest from a hard kick, it was really quite large. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Companion Horse
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Kaaren Jordan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > As > long as I was there, Gylfi was always standoffish when we would go out every > few days to do a visual & head count of all the horses. I was interested > in him because of his size (very stout & tall) and wonderful sire. The > horses you could get close to, were checked more carefully... the not so > easy ones checked as best she could given the sheer numbers of horses. No > one could get within 40 feet of him without a good deal of time taken (which > Elizabeth did not have much of). I had been out with Elizabeth on her acreage a couple of times and I remember one horse who was beautiful, but she said he was "special":), like very sensitive, I seem to recall he may have been started/sold and it didn't go too well. I doubt it was this same one, I think he was a palimino, very big and beautiful. When Elizabeth > had her dispersal sale in 2001-2003, rumor had it that he was placed with > someone who had experience with sensitive, shy horses as a companion horse, > which is apparently where he still is. He must be about 16-18 now, perhaps > someone who is very experienced & had the time could train him under saddle > after any medical issues were ruled out. Some horses do better having > appropriate handling from an early age being exposed to everything humans > have to offer gradually rather than everything all at once when they are > started under saddle. If I had the room & the funds, I would take him > myself to live out his life as a companion, but unfortunately I do not . I also would be willing to take a horse like this, I'm just in no position right at the moment. I'm still boarding my horses out for now, and it would be no place for a horse like this. I do think that I could become develop a partnership with a horse like this, I'm sure it would take some time. I think it would have to be with no expectations from him, letting him decide when he is comfortable. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Companion Horse
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Janice McDonald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > When i introduced myself to a woman at a driving demo who had an icey > the first words out of her mouth when i told her about nasi were "make > sure when he is ready you send him to a traditional icelandic trainer, > no matter how far you have to ship him or how much you have to pay, it > will be so much better in the long run for him to learn to tolt in the > correct way" and I am thinking wow. i was a little speechless.Why? > It's just deja vu for me. I can't really count how many times I have heard this. Let me pick one:) I remember there was this German girl who was visiting LA and was riding this Icelandic horse, who was just bought real cheap for these people's daughter, they didn't realize he was Icelandic until someone told them, he obviously was, and was gaited too. So I asked her if she was going to train her own horses back in Germany, she sort of freaked out and let me know that of course she wouldn't be doing that, these were very good horses (unlike mine I guess:)) and she would be having them professionally trained to avoid a chance that she might mess up their gaits. You know, in my naturally gaited horses, I don't think I could mess up their gaits even if I tried, granted I actually do know how to ride gaited horses well:) Kim
[IceHorses] Re: getting horse in to tolt or just smooth gait
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Nancy Sturm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Seriously, though, wouldn't differences in conformation, temperment and > level of training all affect gait? > I think so. I think a lot is conformation, that's what they come with, then there is training, but in my mind this should just be me asking for them to slow down or speed up and keep them in the range of the gait, thinking about a good frame, self carriage, not totally changing how they go naturally. Then there is the temperament, I am thinking mostly thinking in terms of energy levels. In Icelandics who are more to the lateral side of things, it seems they need to be very relaxed to trot, if they get kind of nervous and tense their bodies, it's not so easy to get them trotting, a big part is conformation, but it's also what they do with themselves. A more natural trotter, just for instance, wouldn't have to be as relaxed in order to be able to trot. Just what I can think of right now. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Riding Today-horsmanship
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Ryder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > > >>>I saw way too many people pulling at bits with all of > > their strength, just bad horsemanship. > > I tend to think that "horsemanship" has an implied meaning of "good". > > If it's "bad horsemanship", I don't think it's horsemanship at all! > I think that is right:) Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Trick Training Video
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Ryder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > This is a kind of cool video. > > > > http://www.tiny.cc/A4f5d > > > > Kim, I got an error in trying this link. > > > Ok, here is the real link: http://www.associatedcontent.com/video/2915/trick_training_your_horse teach_your.html and I will try tiny url again: http://tinyurl.com/2vj7fg Kim
[IceHorses] Re: animal communicator - more thoughts
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>> Altho I did take much of her advice and it helped the horse, I don't > think that she got her ideas from communicating w/ him. I still call him > Santana and he doesn't seem to mind it. > > > If some people can communicate with animals on that level, fine I suppose, > but it's certainly an area that's a wide-open for scam artists, or plain old > nuts to fill the void. I know of a few I could name, but I won't. I have > heard a couple of stories that were darned hard to explain, as to how the > communicator could have known certain things. I agree with all of this. I have to admit that I am pretty sceptical about some of the people who communicate with animals for a living. I absolutely believe in animal communication, I have had some very eerie experiences myself and believe that I have a special connection with all animals. I do believe that these people "fill in" a lot though, even if they are actually able to communicate, they are doing this for a living and have to please the people to keep the people coming back. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Dagur Jumping
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Wanda Lauscher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > . It's some kind of crazy game. > > He's so cute. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Seven Swans a-Swimming... O/T
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Cary and I are just back from a little weekend getaway where we were able to > breathe some cooler air. Sounds nice! Kim
[IceHorses] Riding Today
I went to a local show last night I didn't really know what kind of horse show it was before I went, but it turned out to have it's share of Big Lick Horses, Spotted Saddle Horses, racing trotters, hackney ponies, even a Haflinger Pony. Here is a sample of the shoeing done on a Big Lick Horse:( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJ5xGdy7FYs My mother went, and she knows nothing about horses, except watching me in lessons for years, she said the Big Lick Horses were the most digusting thing she has ever seen in her life, she couldn't watch, even she recognized that they were totally unbalanced and could hardly walk. Anyway, I saw a friend who has been telling me about an Appy he has at his farm. He tried to ride her, she did something and he said he would never ride her again. I told him I would come out and see her today. I am guessing she was used as a broodmare, she's about 10, gorgeous horse built like a truck, sweet. She knew how to lead and picked up her feet good, but didn't seem to know how to give on either side to the rein and knew nothing about riding, going forward. I worked with her on the ground for a while then got on her, we were able to walk around the arena a little, work on turning and stopping, she stopped good. I think she might be an excellent trail horse for someone, maybe him if we worked on it. She's a little bit in limbo right now, a person bought her at an auction and left her at this guy's house until fall, so I don't know. It shows me that the techniques I am learning work on any horse, unbroken horses, horses who have had some rough training and need to be started over, etc. I should have gotten him to video that part, but I did get a video of me riding his mule, bareback, a rope halter. After what I saw last night, I think it's best to put out as many better examples as possible. I saw way too many people pulling at bits with all of their strength, just bad horsemanship. There were a couple of people doing ok, a small child was a favorite of mine, riding a nice little gaited horse on a looser rein, the horse looked relaxed, it was much better, and I know I should be wearing a helmet, this is a bad example I am setting, do not do what I do, it's a bad habit not to wear one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVv92QmfISY I had an Amish kid sew sheepskin to the bottom of my bareback pad, it is pretty nice and comfortable:) Kim
[IceHorses] Re: animal communicator - more thoughts
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Susan McKenney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Does anyone besides Judy have animal communicator experience? > I have used them a few times. Lydia Hiby a couple of times, in fact I sat next to her for a couple of days when I helped man Leslie Desmond's booth at Equine Affaire, and she went out to dinner with everybody. I have also been to one in San Diego, Bridgette Noel. We took a dog and cat to Bridgette, she said the cat said that I communicate with him and I always know what he wants and give it to him, this is true, I'm living in the house with this cat again after many years and he's got me turning on the water tap 5 times per day, he doesn't like drinking out of a bowl and feeding him eggs, right back to where we started (he was brought to us when he was so tiny he didn't know how to eat, he's a spoiled brat:)) Kim
