Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [SLOBS] Debian complaints
Hi Tony and others, Excerpts from Tony Anderson's message of December 17, 2016 9:05 pm: It appears that the Debian repository, if updated for 0.110 and then passing the Debian test procedures should be the proper basis for a Raspbian and Ubuntu release. Thanks for your interest in the Debian packaging of Sugar! Sugar 0.110 libraries, and up-to-date activities Browse, Chat, Image Viewer, Jukebox, Log, Pippy, Read, Terminal, and Write, were all recently prepared and if all goes well will be part of upcoming Debian release (which will enter "freeze" state in few weeks and might be ready some time in Spring). I would hope our community has some one with the skills and determination to take this on. Anyone interested in helping out with packaging Sugar for Debian is most welcome. You do *not* need to be an official Debian developer (we only need some of those in our team to formally release our work, and I can do that). More information, both on how to follow the Debian progress more closely and how to join, is at https://wiki.debian.org/Sugar I see no need for tighter coordination between Debian and Sugarlabs for this: Sugarlabs does a fine job publishing its code and announcing releases. What is needed is people able and interested in running Debian and testing the packages - and people helping create packages - for Debian. Regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private pgpVA0rRsaHK6.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Ubuntu
Quoting Tony Anderson (2016-07-01 14:54:12) > I believe this version comes from OLPC (James Cameron). This version > includes valuable changes to the structure of Sugar. However, > sugar-bundle-install apparently was not updated to reflect this. > Similarly, the permissions on this version must be set up to share > activities between users, which is not relevant to the XO > implementation where there is one user - olpc. My comment was about how to most optimally address bugs in code not developed as part of Sugarlabs, but instead hacked on by a downstream (re)distributor. If you insist on handling external code as if part of Sugarlabs (i.e. by reporting bugs in it on a mailinglist tied to Sugarlabs rather than the (re)distributor), then go ahead - you don't need my permission. ...but please do not try convince me that it is most sensible. When you one day stumble upon a bug in the Debian-derived Sugar packages I would very much appreciate being informed about it *in* *Debian* - please do *not* expect downstream developers to follow this list. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Ubuntu
Quoting Tony Anderson (2016-07-01 13:01:43) > I installed Sugar 0.107 on Ubuntu 14.04 as described in > https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Ubuntu. > > Activities in this version are at /usr/share/sugar/activities not > /usr/olpc/Activities. However, sugar-install-bundle > installs activities at /usr/username/Activities not in > /usr/share/sugar/activities. As a result, the activity is not available > in the List view. > The activities in /usr/share/activities need 755 permission not 700 as > given by sugar-install-bundle. > > Incidentally, Ubuntu has changed the login screen. The choice of > desktops is not made with a small icon at the top right of the login > screen, not by an icon on the login itself. I recommend you to report that issue to the distributor, since seemingly they altered the code as part of their (re)distribution of Sugar. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Pkg-sugar-devel] sugar is marked for autoremoval from testing
Quoting Tony Anderson (2016-06-24 13:13:57) > I subscribed to the list because there seemed to be a lot of sugar > activity. I appreciate your interest. > I have been dismayed by the frequent threats to drop Sugar or a > critical component. At one point, the messages suggested that the > automated testing scripts could not even read the license text at the > beginning of a module. Please discuss Debian packaging at the dedicated mailinglist. Makes good sense to share here what you learn from following those activities in Debian, but taking details out of context is not helping. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [Pkg-sugar-devel] sugar is marked for autoremoval from testing
Hi Tony! First of all: Thanks for your interest in Debian packaging of Sugar! Quoting Tony Anderson (2016-06-24 08:25:07) > Does anyone know what this is all about? How has Debian packaged Sugar > in one package? > What is the difference, if any, between 0.106 as released and 0.106.1-1? > Does this one package > include the essential activities? Does it include both sugar and sugar3? That warning - and your questions here - are specific to the Debian packaging of Sugar. Possibly https://wiki.debian.org/Sugar already answers your questions - else feel free to ask such questions at our mailinglist referenced at that wiki page. - Jonas P.S. If you received the warning email through some Sugarlabs list, then someone has subscribed that list to receive automated messages from Debian, which is bad: Don't tell robots to receive robot-generated messages aimed at human. -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Discussion platform
Quoting Utkarsh Tiwari (2016-04-27 15:32:26) > In a recent chat with Mr. Sebastian Silva, he shared the need to > change out general discussion platform from 'mailing list' to some > other platforms like - gitter.com or loomio.org to gain community > consensus on a specific topic. > There isn't too much activity on #sugar either. > > What would you guys suggest? You would get rid of me if switching from current standards-protocol mail and irc to walled-garden gitter. Not that I carry much weight. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Active development
Quoting Dave Crossland (2016-04-18 17:28:06) > On 18 April 2016 at 00:03, Tony Anderson <tony_ander...@usa.net> wrote: > >> Very much so. Currently the focus is writing activities using >> javascript (sugar-web-activities). These activities work in Sugar >> exactly as do the Python-base activities. They also work on Sugarizer >> requiring only a standard browser. New Python-based activities are >> also welcome. > > I spent a lot of time yesterday reading about the history of > smalltalk, and it seems undervalued. > > http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/search?q=squeak=all > only produces 1 result, etoys. > > Are any other activities written in squeak? Can other activities be > made within etoys? Etoys is arguably a World of activities. I am involved with developing Debian - the universal operating system, and find it odd when people are counting the number of derivatives. Seems similar to your asking how many Worlds like eToys exist. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Python is good - don't waste time (was Re: The future of Sugar on XO-1s)
Quoting Walter Bender (2016-04-06 16:41:07) > On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Dave Crossland <d...@lab6.com> wrote: >> Off the top of my head, here are 3 projects that adapt the software >> freedom movement to the model: >> >> http://sandstorm.io >> https://owncloud.org >> https://unhosted.org >> > > UnHosted is pretty interesting. Unhosted is rather vague. I find SoLiD quite interesting: https://github.com/solid/solid-spec#overview - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Python is good - don't waste time (was Re: The future of Sugar on XO-1s)
Quoting Dave Crossland (2016-04-06 14:42:57) > On 6 April 2016 at 02:59, <sam@sam.today> wrote: > >> You can install GNU on a chromebook, you can install GNU on computer, >> you can install GNU on some tablets. Those are the pedagogic devices >> of now and the future. Those run faster with Gtk than with WebKit. > > > Will devices running GNU and Sugar desktops get into the hands of most > of the world's poor children in the next 10 years? Devices *not* running GNU (and therefore Sugar desktop) are likely devices not in the control of its owner. Underlying question is therefore if it matters that the device "in the hands" of those kids is in their own control or not. Only if it does not matter is it relevant to consider throwing away the work done developing Sugar-atop-a-POSIX-system and instead invest only in developing Sugar-atop-a-web-browser. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Flash on Browse Activity - Ubuntu
Quoting Sebastian Silva (2016-03-01 17:21:07) > On 01/03/16 10:16, Gustavo Duarte wrote: >> If mostly Browser are supporting Flash, like Firefox, Chrome and >> Epiphany, why Browse Activity, not ? >> Browse is based on Webkit (Chrome and Safari also) and Webkit support >> Flash. Google-based browsers originally derived their _rendering_ engine on Webkit, but you need to check which _plugin_ API is used. Mozilla-based browsers use NPAPI for their plugins, Google-based browsers use PPAPI plugins. I don't know which API Webkit-based browsers use, if any at all. > This is really not true. Only Chrome supports flash, with an in-house > proprietary plugin from Google. The rest, all try to use the last know > - faulty and insecure - unsupported 11.x plugin released several years > ago. Firefox is in the process of killing the old plugin API too. Not quite true: Wrappers exist to use the Google (PPAPI) plugin in Mozilla (NPAPI) browsers: https://github.com/i-rinat/freshplayerplugin - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [Announcing] UNSTABLE 0.107.1 release (feature freeze)
Quoting Sam P. (2016-01-04 16:34:33) > This is serious. If an activity wants to work in collaboration mode > on a NEW version of telepathy gabble, it needs to be ported not to use > tubes. > > However, your activity will still work on OLPC OS 13/14, Fedora 21 and > before and on the current Debian (???). Your activity will still work > everywhere in single user mode. Unchanged activities will *not* work on current Debian. Not stable, not testing, and not unstable. Nor will they work with Ubuntu. You might get them to work by adding "telepathy-gabble-legacy", but beware that that package is *old* and *unsupported* and *insecure*! Likewise, support for conventional tubes-based collaboration on other systems - OLPC OS and Fedora - makes use of an outdated version of telepathy Gabble, which potentially is highly insecure to use. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [Announcing] UNSTABLE 0.107.1 release (feature freeze)
Quoting Samuel Greenfeld (2016-01-05 17:34:18)
> In general, many widely used Sugar distributions are based on
> Operating Systems that are at least a few years old and full of
> security holes.
>
> Bringing them up to date for computers like XOs that need updated
> hardware drivers would require a fair amount of effort. (Hence the
> move by some groups to standardized hardware and Ubuntu for long-term
> support.)
>
> The primary mitigating factors {if you could count them as such} are
> that (1) many Sugar users are offline or barely online, and (2) the
> obscurity of someone trying to hack telepathy versus using a wider
> exploit against something like libjpeg or OpenSSL.
>
> But I wouldn't rely on obscurity as your sole protection.
The security flaws I suspect exist in legacy Gabble is indeed OpenSSL
flaws.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Current status of GTK+ 3.x migration
Quoting Tony Anderson (2015-12-26 21:11:09) > I guess you see how far out from the developer community I am. I > associate sucrose with Activity Central. I am not sure what a sucrose > developer is. You need not know the details of how the parts of a code eco-system is divided in order to help: Report bugs to the corresponding issue tracker, and those who know better will pass on the information to the right part of the eco-system. ...but I strongly advice you to try not be judgemental without even understanding (just the very broad) anatomy of the thing you judge: Ask instead of judging! What I am referring to is your telling (not asking) that GStreamer works fine, which spawned this subthread. > The involved developers have been doing well. However, for many of the > activities in ASLO, the original contributors have moved on, a natural > situation in open source. Sure it is natural for developers to move on, and as a consequence, it is natural for some projects (those left without active developers) to to stop working when the underlying environment develops. Such situation is called "bit-rot", and calls for either new devoted developers to step in, or that code to be dropped. In such situations it is not helpful to point at "the old code worked fine, there was no need to change anything" - if you wanna live in the past then simply don't upgrade the _whole_ system at all. > There is no attempt to point fingers, the decision is there. If Sugar > is to move to the mobile device, it appears necessary to work in a > Javascript not Python environment. So an activity developer/maintainer > needs to decide whether his investment in time in GTK is warranted or > should be spent it in rewriting the activity as a Sugar-web-activity. You bring Javascript into this conversation, not me. For my part, we are talking about migration from GTK+ 2.x to GTK+ 3.x and how some activities fall behind in that transition. Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Current status of GTK+ 3.x migration
Quoting Tony Anderson (2015-12-26 16:29:09) > Yet more examples of this broken software problem. I would call it examples of _unmaintained_ software. I.e. in my opinion for these examples the Sugar environment does the right thing of both a) moving to GTK+ 3.x while b) providing legacy support for GTK+ 2.x for several years. Issues then emerge with activities neglecting to migrate for several years to GTK+ 3.x. > I have scripts which provide the 'bad and ugly' codecs for GStreamer > 0.10 which work very well. Which codecs? GStreamer 1.0 also provides bad and ugly codecs - so an obvious first step is to ensure they are installed for your system. In the case of the Debian system, installing the package sugar-jukebox-activity by default pulls in the bad set but you will need to explicitly install the ugly set (because the very reason those are shipped separately is that they may cause your system to become less stable). If, on a Debian system, you install the metapackage sucrose then both the bad and ugly sets gets installed (always, not only by default, bcause the purpose of that metapackage is to ensure that as much of Sucrose as is packaged for Debian gets installed). > I have had to regress to Jukebox 26 in order for this to work, Sounds like you have done some research on this. I recommend that you a) file a bugreport about this (if one is not filed already), and then b) refer to the bugreport each time you bring it up - e.g. in conversations like this one. > Avoiding GTK + 2.x implies porting all 400 Sugar activities to GTK 3! True - either that or ditch the activities evidently too badly maintained to work well with modern Sugar. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Current status of collaboration work
Quoting Tony Anderson (2015-12-26 15:31:16) > Thanks. That sounds like enough to get me going. Sadly, this also > means porting to gtk3 but it will need to be done anyway. Thanks - a hassle indeed, but urgently needed not only for collaboration: * GStreamer 0.10 (tied to GTK+ 2.x) is deprecated since some years and is now dropped from Debian (and no doubt will be soon from any other distro that haven't done that move already long ago). * Systems with small diskspace (e.g. XO-1) can free 200-300MB by avoiding GTK+ 2.x altogether. So if either a) your activity uses GStreamer and you care about having it running on new operating systems, or b) you care about old hardware, then you already need to migrate to GTK+ 3.x. Regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Current status of GTK+ 3.x migration
Quoting Tony Anderson (2015-12-26 19:53:47) [Jonas wrote:] >> True - either that or ditch the activities evidently too badly >> maintained to work well with modern Sugar. > > Aye, There's the rub! > > Is the problem 'bad maintenance or none at all' or 'modern' Sugar. > Certainly TuxMath is suffering from 'abandonment'. However, even > abandoned code continues to run when the underlying support is there. > In this case, programmers who were not involved in the development or > maintenance of the code will have to figure out how to get it running > again or rewrite it in Javascript. Wrong: In this case all developers were involved at their various levels of the chains of events but some of them were inactive: GTK+ developers chose to improve their code beyond what a previous API could contain and sensibly bumped API and kept alive the previous API for ages. Sucrose developers chose to build their code on top of GTK+ and sensibly handled the API split of GTK+ including maintenance of a legacy interface for ages. Activity developers chose to build their code on top of Sucrose and some of them sensibly migrated to new interfaces, but sadly some activity developers did not react yet - and *that* is not sensible. > The port of activities to GTK+ 3.x seems to have stalled because of > the higher priority to re-implement activities such as TurtleBlocks in > javascript. Consider the long-term job security in rewriting Sim City > in javascript as a Sugar-web-activity. Are you pointing fingers at other volunteers choosing to spend their time in a way you disaprove of, or have you provided patches to migrate some activities but have been turned down? > In the case of gstreamer 0.1, I was able to find how to install the > codecs: [...] > I am certainly sure that everyone is bored to tears on this subject > since I have mentioned it so many times already. Did you "mention" it through the appropriate issue tracker? - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Current status of collaboration work
[dropping Cc's, assuming all are subscribed to -devel] Quoting James Cameron (2015-12-26 08:58:13) > Pull request 282 mentions 0.17.25, but of what package? When did the > Tubes API get removed from the Telepathy packages? Yes, for Fedora it > was 22, but we care about other downstreams. telepathy-gabble is where Tubes interface was dropped. > On Ubuntu 14.04 builds with Sugar 0.107.0, I'm using [...] > telepathy-gabble-legacy 0.16.7 > On Ubuntu 15.10 builds with Sugar 0.107.0, I'm using [...] > telepathy-gabble-legacy 0.16.7 Who _maintains_ that telepathy-gabble-legacy package? I created such package and put it online at http://debian.jones.dk/ but was strongly adviced against releasing it officially to Debian (read: step up as maintainer for it) and decided to follow that advice mainly due to the security implications (the code is big and contains e.g. TLS code likely to be vulnerable to BEAST and other recent attacks which I am not skilled to fix). > I don't have a test case for collaboration failure due to Tubes API > missing. The feature page doesn't say. I can't find a bug report. As I recall, Chat via Jabber (i.e. when connected to a central server) uses Tubes. Please someone correct me if wrong, and provide some other simple test.. > It would seem that the Tubes API was fairly critical to Sugar's > success. ;-) I wholeheartedly agree. I decided to drop Sugar completely from what became the current stable release of Debian in the spring, when I learned about this bug after we had entered the "freeze" of that release about a year ago. I dearly hope that Sugar can soon re-enter Debian testing again - not only for inclusion into next stable Debian, but also for the benefit of Debian derivatives invcluding Ubuntu (so please to not relax about the very slow release process of Debian). Regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Current status of collaboration work
Quoting James Cameron (2015-12-26 10:07:11) > On Sat, Dec 26, 2015 at 09:52:56AM +0530, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: >> telepathy-gabble is where Tubes interface was dropped. > > Thanks! > > I wasn't sure it was, because Gabble is only used when operating with > Jabber/XMPP servers, and we also use Salut for link-local. > > So in the scenario where activities are collaborating over Salut, I > wonder how their use of Tubes is implemented, if at all. Right - this issue is tied to Jabber transport! I occasionally tested collaboration (when demo'ing to friends), but typically did so using Salut :-( >> Who _maintains_ that telepathy-gabble-legacy package [which you use >> in Ubuntu-based Sugar]? > > Nobody at the moment. > >> I created such package and put it online at http://debian.jones.dk/ >> but was strongly adviced against releasing it officially to Debian >> (read: step up as maintainer for it) and decided to follow that >> advice mainly due to the security implications (the code is big and >> contains e.g. TLS code likely to be vulnerable to BEAST and other >> recent attacks which I am not skilled to fix). > > I'm not aware of any reported vulnerabilities specific to the package. Uhm, perhaps lack of reports is related to lack of maintainer to report it to :-P - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: [GSoC] query
Dear Shiva (cc the Sugarlabs developers in case others have interest), Quoting Ignacio Rodríguez (2015-12-08 20:29:32) > i develop Mobile and Web Applications using JAVA/javascript/Node.js,i > would like to work on projects for GSOC 2016 under guidance of > sugarlabs my github profile : github.com/shivasurya > > I thought it would be a good idea to get in touch with the mentors for > some pointers to get started on these projects. I cannot help you with your concrete request, unfortunately (my expertise is in a different field: packaging Sugar and other projects for Debian and Debian-based distributions). I noticed, however, that you live in Madurai, India, which seems I will be passing right by with my partner and and another friend mid January. Would you be interested in a visit? Perhaps some of your fellow students and teachers might be interested in meeting too? See details of our journey at https://couchdesign.dk/india/ Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] XO-4 gerber files
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 02:07:24AM -0500, abew1...@phenetics.com > wrote: >> Does anyone have files for creating the XO-4 hardware? Our group >> wants to do some experiments on the hardware? Is it possible to get >> this? Sounds like what your group are really interested in working with is Open Source Hardware (OSHW): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSHW Beware of the similar but more relaxed term "Open hardware" which may have PDF files of print boards but lack source files for remodelling the wiring of those boards (e.g. to adjust for obsolete components). Also beware that an OSHW board may include non-OSHW parts. E.g. the CPU chip (or system-on-chip - SoC - chip) is rarely fully open, but also the board may be (properly) branded as OSHW even though including another smaller system-on-module (SoM) board which is not. Quoting James Cameron (2015-11-13 09:10:10) > Yes, we have the files, they are used by the factory. > > No, you can't have them, sorry. In other words: The business model used for XO laptops does *not* involve OSHW. I believe no currently mass-produced laptops - neither sold on the open market nor ear-market for governments of developing countries - are OSHW. The most promising projects on the horizon seems to be Olimex' OLinuXino A64 Laptop idea https://olimex.wordpress.com/2015/11/05/a64-olinuxino-oshw-64-bit-arm-diy-laptop-idea-update/ and Bunnies Novena and Heirloom projects http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?cat=28 - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] license of layout.py in Sugar Calculate activity
Quoting Gonzalo Odiard (2015-07-27 15:02:05) I already added license to layout.py https://github.com/godiard/sugarlabs-calculate/commit/ 95302e66919ac89338a7a91575f9002dadb9218c Aneesh is not the copyright holder, he only contributed and added his name: https://github.com/godiard/sugarlabs-calculate/commit/ e088b4a0cfbbe6fe7eab2c4ccf8e8b2f98553206 Uhm, above URLs proves - if anything - that indeed Aneesh a) did contribute code to that file and b) explicitly stated copyright claim for that contribution. Others may have written other parts - majority parts even - which makes them _also_ copyright holders. *All* copyright holders should be consulted when granting/changing licensing terms for a work. Who did you consult, leading to the change in licensing that you did? Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] license of layout.py in Sugar Calculate activity
Hi Aneesh, I maintain Sugar packaging of Sugar for Debian, and noticed that in the Calculate activity you've declared copyright for layout.py but not included a license. Please always include an explicit license statement where a copyright is stated, because a lack of license statement does not mean look in same folder for a COPYING file but instead in many jurisdictions imply All rights reserved which I suspect was not your intention :-) Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] license of layout.py in Sugar Calculate activity
Hi Martin (and cc others - also alternate address for Aneesh), Quoting Martin Abente (2015-06-18 12:58:48) Thanks for taking the time to let us know. The new maintainer of Calculate is Gonzalo (cc'ed). For future reference, you can check this [1] list to see who is currently maintaining an activity (we certainly need to improve our communication channels). Thanks. Specifically license statements cannot be issued by a(nother) maintainer, however, but require the copyright holder (or code rewrite to avoid contributions without proper licensing). Reason I cc the general list is to share my point more broadly - not only with co-authors of that specific activity :-) Regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] license of layout.py in Sugar Calculate activity
Hi Gonzalo, Quoting Gonzalo Odiard (2015-06-18 13:33:57) In our project, is a common practice include a COPYING file in the activity directory. Include the text on every file does not have sense for us, more thinking we still support old devices with few storage space, as the XO-1. Could you clarify what are you asking for, specifically, please? In the next cycle I plan work on tools to make sure all the information for packagers is available n the activities. Is good have you and others involved. What I request is that you properly release your code as Free software. Including a COPYING file (containing e.g. the full GPL v2 license) helps save space, so that each copyright holder need not repeat the full licensing terms but can refer to that common file. The presence of a COPYING file do not imply anything being licensed, however: The COPYING file _is_ a license but does not _grant_ licensing. Each and every copyright holder in a project need to license their contributions for the collective work to be Free software. A common practice is to include copyright holders and licensing at the top of each source file (each copyright holder on one line with the years that copyright holder contributed to the file, and below the license). Another practice is to list copyright holders and licensing terms as a summary in a file at the root dir of the project. That practice may be adequate in tightly streamlined projects, but for Sugar projects which at its core strongly encourage copying code snippets and forking aggressively, I strongly recommend to embed the copyright and licensing in each file so it gets preserved when copying files across projects. A project leader cannot state a license on behalf of other contributors, unless the contributors have handed over their copyright to the project leader (a practice common for some larger projects, e.g. the GNU project). Concretely, I noticed a copyright statement for Aneesh in a file, with no corresponding licensing statement, and I request that Aneesh explicitly state the licensing of that file (e.g. GPL v2 or newer). It is not the only inadequate licensing issue of that activity, but a more prominent flaw. Most translation files are wrongly licensed too... Hope that helps, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Bundlebuilder and mime-type related files
Quoting Martin Abente (2015-05-25 20:21:55) So basically, there are 2 problems. 1. symlinks creation during ./setup.py --install (for installing the mimetypes.xml file .svg icons for mime types declared in activity.info) and, 2. the execution of update-mime-database (which generates the database files). I agree with 1. but have not yet experienced 2. myself. I would appreciate if you could provide steps to reproduce 2. on Debian, so that I can help investigate. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Bundlebuilder and mime-type related files
Quoting James Cameron (2015-05-26 10:03:00) On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 08:49:41AM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: Quoting Martin Abente (2015-05-25 20:21:55) So basically, there are 2 problems. 1. symlinks creation during ./setup.py --install (for installing the mimetypes.xml file .svg icons for mime types declared in activity.info) and, 2. the execution of update-mime-database (which generates the database files). I agree with 1. but have not yet experienced 2. myself. I would appreciate if you could provide steps to reproduce 2. on Debian, so that I can help investigate. I've a system tracking Debian Stretch on which 2 can be reproduced, using the Memorize-35 activity: a. git clone git://anonscm.debian.org/collab-maint/sugar-memorize-activity.git b. edit /usr/bin/update-mime-database to show evidence of activation, and print arguments, by adding a line: echo $0 $* c. ./setup.py install In this context, outside of dpkg-buildpackage, the argument to update-mime-database is /root/.local/share/mime, and is set in activitybundle.py in python-sugar3 package. Hope that helps. That is helpful, yes: I thought the problem was MIME database files ending up inside the package, but I do see now how the update-mime-database call generates those database files in XDG paths. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Fwd: Scratch source code version 1.4.0.6 released
On 12-06-05 at 10:26am, Bert Freudenberg wrote: Begin forwarded message: From: Amos Blanton a...@scratch.mit.edu Subject: Scratch source code version 1.4.0.6 released Date: 5. Juni 2012 03:23:50 MESZ To: Linux Scratch li...@scratch.mit.edu, scra...@lists.launchpad.net, Debian Bugs 471...@bugs.debian.org We've released an update to the GPL v2 Scratch source code , now available here: http://download.scratch.mit.edu/scratch-1.4.0.6.src.tar.gz 1.4.0.6 changes: * Fix for blank screen bug when image is run on current Squeak VMs (Thanks to Bert Freudenberg for the fix.) * Squeak source code for version of Scratch 1.4 modified for XO / Sugar Scratch On! Amos Scratch Team This now could be used to make a GPL Scratch activity. Very exciting news! - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [Release] Calculate-40
On 12-05-08 at 07:36pm, Gary Martin wrote: == Bundle == http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/downloads/file/28026/calculate-40.xo == Source == http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/fructose/Calculate/Calculate-40.tar.bz2 Please remember to tag the release in git. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] eduJAM! and 1-to-1 week: information and scholarships
On 12-04-19 at 11:43am, Pablo Flores wrote: We're very close to eduJAM! 2012, which will take place in May in Montevideo, Uruguay. This time the summit doesn’t stand on its own but is accompanied by a number of events which promise to provide enriching meeting opportunities. Wauw! That's a LOT going on there. I am wondering: Would Debian packaging of Sugar be of any relevancy there? Regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar Digest 2012-04-12
On 12-04-14 at 12:38pm, Chris Leonard wrote: 2012/4/14 Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com: On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Chris Leonard cjlhomeaddr...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 5:29 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: During the conversation with the learning team, the topic of nutrition came up. FZT is working with USAID on a nutrition curriculum. We discussed ways to integrate the curriculum into Sugar, by or example, using the Turtle Art [1]. I was inspired by our discussion of the Food Pyramid, so on the flight back to Boston, I wrote a new activity, [2]. What is potentially fun about it is that not only can you explore the precompiled database of foods, but you can also load your own foods into the database. So, for example, a child could take a photo (using Record) or draw a picture (using Paint) of dinner, and then load that food into the activity. Walter, the Food Pyramid is so 10 minutes ago :-) Almost a year ago the USDA guidelines changed to the MyPlate iconography. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MyPlate I should probably change my formula for a balanced meal. (I had been going by the material prepared in .NI based on USAID curricula.) Thanks. That is not to say that the USDA recommendations are necessarily right for every one, even within the US there is criticism that they are overly influenced by the agribiz concerns that have great political influence. Of course, leave to folks from Boston to propose an alternative, the Harvard Healthy Eating Plate. http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-eating-plate/healthy-eating-plate-vs-usda-myplate/index.html Somewhat related, for those interested in RDF and semantic web, here is a SPARQL interface for the USDA data (and, if we move on the collaboration that we've briefly discussed via email recently, also some european databases I am looking at codifying): http://semanticdiet.com/ - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Browse and the move to WebKit
On 12-02-17 at 05:33am, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: better news: i've just confirmed that: a) the removal of js_push_context and pop context was a spurious error, those functions are now restored, confirmed as compiling and existing (untested) b) the usual critical pyjamas-desktop tests, Helloworld, JSONRPCExample, KitchenSink and Mail all have the exact same behaviour as they used to, way back before the xpcom API breakage [where we all had to wait for todd whiteman to update pyxpcom] this is really really good news because it means that the people who have been keeping an eye on the debian packaging of hulahop and have been going arse! it's fecked! quite a lot will now be happy that it all works, and i am confident that within a few weeks/months people will be able to do apt-get install pyjamas-desktop python-hulahop again and have it all work. This is indeed quite exciting. Looking at your patch now and hopefully able to release a working Hulahop for Debian. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] error building etoys in a debian distro
Hi Alvar, On 11-11-16 at 06:44am, Alvar Maciel wrote: On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: Are you aware that Debian has official Debian packages for Sugar 0.84? Yes I see the packages, but they are obsoletes for being used in the schools. I try to use that packages in my school and we have many problems. Because of this I want to package the 94.1 release :) Ohh, silly me: I misread the version number in your first post and thought your interest was in that old branch of Sugar. Debian maintains packages for newer branches of Sugar as well. The plan currently is to release 0.84, 0.88 and 0.94 with next stable Debian. I think that Sugar has to be running in all distribution at least in the last stable release. In that way we can have chances to put Sugar in the schools regards the Distributions that they are running I wholeheartedly agree. Someone needs to do it, though. :-) I work on it for Debian, and your help is dearly appreciated! You are helping already: Knowing that someone out there appreciates the Sugar packages and are in need of them kept up-to-date helps me prioritize that work over other of my many pet projects in Debian. (lack of steady updates to Sugar in Debian is an indication that a) I am doing most work alone, and b) I feel that noone cares so have poured more love in other projects) Would be awesome if you could see the benefit of joining us in improving those packages distributed globally instead of locally struggling with jh-build. I really want to do it remember that I'm more a teacher that a hacker, I' m not a Debian Developer o any of that role in Debian. No need for a titles or experience to help, even technically. Passion and curiosity should get you a long way - and some familiarity with Debian, obviously, but sounds like you got all of those already :-D But I want to use my time to improve Sugar in a way that can be used in our school... so I'm learning how to compile (I can solve all dependencies to compile sugar on Debian and Ubuntu) and now I'm learning how to package (I never do it) Great! If you can coach me, I have tree monts to doit. I'd be delighted to couch you! I am travelling currently, so expect me to be slow in responding and often too distracted to dive deep into problems you may uncover. If curious, this is my journey: http://wiki.jones.dk/DebianAsia2011 I create a git repository (remeber i'm new in this too...) https://github.com/alvarmaciel/packg-deb-sugar to begin can I send to you the advances of this work? Good idea to work separately at first, but please join the Debian team and let us continue this discussion not discretely but on the dedicated mailinglist - and let's get you quickly in shape to work directly on the official Debian packages, to put your efforts into use globally :-) Please (create an account and) join our team here: https://alioth.debian.org/projects/debian-olpc/ ...and join our mailinglist here: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debian-olpc-devel ...and when ready post to that list and we can take it from there. If you run into problems, you are quite welcome to contact me directly, but generally it is more fruitful to work transparently via our mailinglist. Looking forward to work with you, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] error building etoys in a debian distro
Hi Alvar, On 11-11-14 at 03:28pm, Alvar Maciel wrote: I'm trying to compile debian from source ina Debian 6.0 Distribution. The goal is build the .deb packages of sugar 0.94.1 because in my country (Argentina) there is a deployment of classmate with tjis distribution and are almost 400,000 machines to students of primary school. I think that this is an opportunity to use sugar, so my summer project it's build this package. I cannot help you with your concrete issue, as that is tied to jh-build which I don't use. Are you aware that Debian has official Debian packages for Sugar 0.84? Would be awesome if you could see the benefit of joining us in improving those packages distributed globally instead of locally struggling with jh-build. Kind regards, - Jonas Debian package maintainer for Sugar packages -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [SLOBS] GPL non compliance?
Hi Sugar folks, [cutting off a few recipients I knwo is subscribed to lists] On 11-04-26 at 12:57pm, Bernie Innocenti wrote: On Tue, 2011-04-26 at 10:26 -0400, Martin Langhoff wrote: useless because children can install absolutely no additional software packages (they can't do yum install). Um - again you _can_ install sw in your homedir. Not as practical but possible. It would be quite painful for users. Correct. Due to design of XO hardware, not licensing of Sugar software. [snip] The GPL (both v2 and v3) requires that users be given the full source code in its *preferred* form for making modifications to it. The GPLv3 additionally requires that users be given the means to install and run modified versions. Quoting the license directly: “Installation Information” for a User Product means any methods, procedures, authorization keys, or other information required to install and execute modified versions of a covered work in that User Product from a modified version of its Corresponding Source. The information must suffice to ensure that the continued functioning of the modified object code is in no case prevented or interfered with solely because modification has been made. My feeling is that, in order to be in compliance, deployments would have to provide detailed instructions for installing Sugar in the user's home... or simply give them root access. Note that Sugar updating its license would simply add yet another violation to the existing ones: there are currently between 40 and 60 packages covered by the GPLv3 in a typical OLPC OS image, and the number is going to increase further when we switch to Fedora 14. ...but it is _Sugar_, not the XO hardware, that is GPL licensed. So how about this detailed instruction: 1) Buy a non-locked computer 2) Copy everything over to that other machine 3) Exercise all your rights there Et voilá, GPLv3 not violated. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] ANNOUNCE: Moving Sugar to GPLv3+
On 11-04-25 at 02:14pm, Christoph Derndorfer wrote: Secondly you wrote Before proceeding to a vote, we'd like to request feedback from the community. In particular, we'd like to know how this change might affect you as a Sugar end-user, distributor, contributor or maintainer. It can be argued that contributors and maintainers have so far spoken up in this thread but users and distributors haven't. I'm not quite sure why this is the case but it's probably safe to assume that David has somewhat of a point when he says that licensing isn't necessarily on the critical path of tasks for users and deployments (which says nothing about whether licensing should or shouldn't be a critical task for Sugar Labs itself IMHO). Additionally I would suggest that reaching out to the relevant people and organisations privately, pointing them to this thread, and encouraging them to post their opinion might get some replies as not everybody follows sugar-devel and IAEP religiously. Well, let me then speak up as package maintainer for Debian: I wholeheartedly agree with Martin here. GPL-2+ signals a different political message than GPL-3+. I am quite interested myself in the more aggressive GPL-3, but find it problematic FSF decided to label GPL-3 as a successor of GPL-2 instead of renaming the stem. The reason is that in my opinion GPL-3 - as Aferro-GPL - is not improved wording of same intended license, but changes the game. I therefore find it rude of projects to abuse the flaw in FSF license naming by bumping from GPL2 to GPL3. It is cheating the authors. I lack some responses in this thread from authors with the viewpoint of oh thank you for taking care of my interests and refining my original intend by bumping to that new version of the GPL which more clearly states the same thing as I wanted back when I released my code to you. That was representing myself only. Debian officially is not pushing towards GPLv3 but accepts anything that fits the Debian Free Software Guidelines - which includes both agressive licenses like GPLv2 and GPLv3, and passive ones like BSD-3-clause and Expat (a.k.a. MIT). I have very much enjoyed following this discussion. Thanks for the well reflected arguments on both sides! Regards, and good luck with this process, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] tamtammini-57.xo, csound and ubuntu
Hi Andrea, On Fri, Apr 01, 2011 at 11:13:41AM +0200, Andrea Mayr wrote: Two years ago i tried so hard to get it running (on debian), but failed. Did you ever try report to Debian the problems you encountered? - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] DebXO 0.6 release
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 04:11:01PM -0800, Andres Salomon wrote: After waay to long of a delay, I just tagged and built DebXO 0.6. Cool! I must've sensed it: Just two days ago I instinctively checked out the wiki page to see if the project was still alive :-) - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Mailman's admin and archive interfaces are horrible - suggest GroupServer.org
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 09:56:05PM -0400, Luke Faraone wrote: On 10/17/2010 07:15 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: I'm assuming the infrastructure team are part of this list. We are, sorry for the long reply time. The archives are easily searchable, attached files are converted to links to the server so that people's inboxes are not flooded. Removing inline attachments may break PGP/MIME, (although I haven't checked) and some people consider being able to read a message offline in its entirety a feature. I hope that behavior is configurable. I welcome any feedback. I think that a migration like this will make the mailing lists far more accessible as a knowledge archive. I've been assured that there is a migration path from mailman[4]. From what I know of Dan, its lead developer, it should be fairly easy reliable. I'll take a look at it. For it to be seriously considered, a mailman path would be needed. The linked tweet notwithstanding, I've not seen any documentation on such a migration. You might want to consider sympa too: https://www.sympa.org/ It has strong support for PGP/MIME, and a nice default web interface. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Mailman's admin and archive interfaces are horrible - suggest GroupServer.org
On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 04:13:42PM +0200, Bert Freudenberg wrote: On 26.10.2010, at 11:14, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 09:56:05PM -0400, Luke Faraone wrote: On 10/17/2010 07:15 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: I'm assuming the infrastructure team are part of this list. We are, sorry for the long reply time. The archives are easily searchable, attached files are converted to links to the server so that people's inboxes are not flooded. Removing inline attachments may break PGP/MIME, (although I haven't checked) and some people consider being able to read a message offline in its entirety a feature. I hope that behavior is configurable. I welcome any feedback. I think that a migration like this will make the mailing lists far more accessible as a knowledge archive. I've been assured that there is a migration path from mailman[4]. From what I know of Dan, its lead developer, it should be fairly easy reliable. I'll take a look at it. For it to be seriously considered, a mailman path would be needed. The linked tweet notwithstanding, I've not seen any documentation on such a migration. You might want to consider sympa too: https://www.sympa.org/ It has strong support for PGP/MIME, and a nice default web interface. For easier participation, a system that had a seamless forums interface would be great. Unfortunately I have not found one that works well, yet. Yeah, I think I share your interest here. Years back I was in love with http://pessoal.org/papercut/ but sadly that haven't been maintained. Also, my experimentation with it revealed that webforum users tend to use a different writing style, especially regarding quoting, which makes the marriage a mess for both email and webforum lovers. Sympa provides a seemingly nice web interface, usable also for users (i.e. not only an admin interface), including posting from web (i.e. not only archival). I have not yet played much with sympa myself - have fought with packaging it for Debian for a couple of years, though. The recent 6.x releases seem pretty mature (no longer needs heavy patching which is what consumed much of my packaging time earlier on). - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Browse-120
On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 06:51:15PM -0400, Lucian Branescu Mihaila wrote: http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/fructose/Browse/Browse-120.tar.bz2 Please push a tag for that release. Also, it seems work has been done at the 0.84 branch of Browse - please remember to release that as tarball and tag it, when ready for consumption. Thanks for allthe great work! - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] stepping down as maintainer
On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 06:21:38PM +0200, Sascha Silbe wrote: Excerpts from David Farning's message of Sun Oct 24 06:42:24 +0200 2010: Sugar Labs lost its lead developer. It is unfortunate that no-one has done a public review of the reasons and implications of Tomeu quiting. Tomeu's leaving is significant enough that Sugar Labs should take a hard look at what is working, what is not working, and how to fix the pieces that are not working. Was there something going on behind the scenes? From Tomeus mail I would have thought his reasons were entirely personal ones (i.e. something like having to take care of his parents or his girlfriend not wanting to have to share him with Sugar Labs anymore). Well, seems at least to not be a sudden move: http://blog.tomeuvizoso.net/2010/10/now-moving-for-real.html [lots of great reflections - from both of you - snipped] For those posting thankyou mails to the list, let me share an insight passed to me recently by a fellow Debian developer: If you want to thank a person then do it discretely. Posting thankyous to a mailinglist has the side effect of boosting your own ego and, more damaging, affects similar future events: Who is appreciated enought to get many comments when leaving (or, as was the case at the debian-private list: has a baby). Hope I did not step on anyones toes with this. I certainly do not want to brag about being better than others: as said, someone just pointed out the exact same thing to me very recently. My intend is to care for the community, not only the person at the center of the various events. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Re-initiate Packaging Team
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:26:49AM +, Aleksey Lim wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 04:31:49PM +0530, Manusheel Gupta wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Aleksey Lim alsr...@member.fsf.org wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 03:45:58PM +0530, Manusheel Gupta wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Aleksey Lim alsr...@member.fsf.org wrote: BTW, maybe Packaging is not appropriate name, any ideas? Account Services team is the preferred trade name for small size teams engaged in support work (answering questions, or communicating with the development team, maintaining builds and their timely releases). Some companies use Internal System Architect nomenclature too. When team sizes grew bigger, this work comes under the umbrella of Members of Technical Staff. Well, I personally prefer something less official/corporate, e.g., Bazaar Team :) Bazaar in Hindi refers to market. Suspect that many people would confuse it with the marketing team :-) Though Bazaar is referring more to The Cathedral and the Bazaar in FOSS world (afaik) rather to marketing (which sounds, in some meaning, quite opposite thing :). Not opposite, IMO: The Cathedral and the Bazaar was written by Eric Raymond, who, I believe, is also a strong proponent of the term Open Source as opposed to Free Software. In other words, the term was coined by a liberal (not a Freedom fighter), and the text is very much about business models and marketing as I recall. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] sugar-base-0.90.1
On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 05:54:25PM +0200, Simon Schampijer wrote: Sorry the header should have been sugar-base of course. On 09/29/2010 05:53 PM, Simon Schampijer wrote: == Source == http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-base/sugar-base-0.90.1.tar.bz2 Please push the git tag. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Proposal of dotted activity version number
So the proposed 1.2.3-peru numbering scheme really is a 1.2.3 scheme with an optional trailing taint hint? It probably makes better sense to clearly distinguish those two essentially separate issues: * mainline numbering + integer + triple integers + Debian-style triple string scheme + other? * how to officially handle slight forks + extending triple integers with fourth integer/string + non-version suffix to version + separate field + no official support + other? The easiest for Debian would be if you version your code using triple integers, as that properly supports multiple branches (which you _are_ doing, whether you admit it or not!). debian care not about deployment forks, but I sure recommend that you do support it properly - which means make room for it in the versioning string and admit that forks are versioned too - not only a non-versioned flag. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Proposal of dotted activity version number
On Thu, Oct 07, 2010 at 12:45:11PM -0300, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 12:22 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: So the proposed 1.2.3-peru numbering scheme really is a 1.2.3 scheme with an optional trailing taint hint? [snip] It probably makes better sense to clearly distinguish those two essentially separate issues: [snip] It's clear in the previous examples? Nope. You insist on discussing both issues together. Very confusing. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Proposal of dotted activity version number
On Mon, Oct 04, 2010 at 11:27:36AM -0300, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: The new version number will consist of N integer numbers separated by dots and a suffix for a local indicator. Activity developers can still use an integer number only, if desired. Valid numbers are: 23 23.2 23.2.5 23.2.5-peru 23.2.5-uru The internal representation will be a string instead of an int and we will add means to validate and compare the versions. What do others think about this approach? Packagers? We must limit the number of integer digits allowed? Short version: Gogogo! Slightly longer: Make sure to strictly define the semantics of non-integer parts. It might seem obvious at first - peru being slight fork of micro-version 5. But perhaps sometimes a local branch wants to release a sneak preview, e.g. almost micro-version 6. Should that then be labeled 23.2.6-peru or (since 5-peru is taken already) 23.2.6.peru2? In Debian we allow both letters and digits in all parts, and use special sign ~ to indicate almost and + to indicate just above. And we treat 0 (zero) equal to a missing trailing part. And more nitpicking... I do not, however, recommend you to adopt such complex scheme. I suggest instead (as might actually be what imply by the above summary) that the 3 first parts are strictly digits and intended only for mainline releases, while an optional 4th part is strictly for non-mainline use and allows [a-z0-9] (but nothing else - no dash, underscore, capital or non-ASCII letters, +~ or whatever). Then use simple C locale sort order, and leave it to local branches if they want to use only letters or also leading and/or trailing digits. Enjoy, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Proposal of dotted activity version number
On Mon, Oct 04, 2010 at 12:50:37PM -0300, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: Short version: Gogogo! Thanks! Slightly longer: Make sure to strictly define the semantics of non-integer parts. It might seem obvious at first - peru being slight fork of micro-version 5. But perhaps sometimes a local branch wants to release a sneak preview, e.g. almost micro-version 6. Should that then be labeled 23.2.6-peru or (since 5-peru is taken already) 23.2.6.peru2? In Debian we allow both letters and digits in all parts, and use special sign ~ to indicate almost and + to indicate just above. And we treat 0 (zero) equal to a missing trailing part. And more nitpicking... I do not, however, recommend you to adopt such complex scheme. I suggest instead (as might actually be what imply by the above summary) that the 3 first parts are strictly digits and intended only for mainline releases, while an optional 4th part is strictly for non-mainline use and allows [a-z0-9] (but nothing else - no dash, underscore, capital or non-ASCII letters, +~ or whatever). Then use simple C locale sort order, and leave it to local branches if they want to use only letters or also leading and/or trailing digits. I am planing be more strict: the last part is only [a-zA-Z]* Then the next to 23.2.6-peru will be 23.2.7-peru or 23.2.6.1-peru. The last part does not imply version, only is a helper to the local deployments. So which package will be favored if all of the following are available: 23.2.7 23.2.7-peru 23.2.7-bolivia ? If last part does not imply version, then they are all flavors of same version 23.2.7, yet one might be a bugfix of the other and the third a feature enhancement. Also, if you permit local branches to add more version parts, are they then allowed to add yet another part if need be? What is the strict logic? Or do you not want a strict logic (now, but learn as you move on)? And why a more strict part if it does not imply version? And if it does get used to resolve which of multiple flavors win an election, what is then the sorting algorithm when you permit both capital and lowercase letters? Regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Proposal of dotted activity version number
Hi Gonzalo and others, I suspect we talk past each others. But let's just leave it at that. Good luck with the proposal! - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] Policy for activities for downstream inclusion
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 09:25:57AM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 00:51, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 09:05:53AM -0500, David Farning wrote: On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 5:27 AM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de wrote: Hi, what is the current status for activity releases in order to include them in distributions like Soas*? Do you guys need tarballs or did you switch over to construct the rpms from the .xo? For example the latest Paint rpm uses the .xo AFAIK (build even the binaries from the non-python sources in the bundle). And is the email from ASLO enough for packagers to know about new releases? Any other notification that packagers need? In the .deb side of the universe, we prefer tarballs but we can work directly from the git repository. True, the Debian workflow generally is optimized for (gzip or bzip2 compressed) tarballs. It is possible to step aside from that and custom generate tarballs based on whatever unusual formats provided upstream, e.g. pulling it out of Git repositories or extracting from xo packages. But then we loose some of the nice infrastructure, like automatic tracking of new releases across all 30.000 upstreams. I believe Debian is not alone in preferring tarballs from upstream authors. I believe it is quite general in the FLOSS world. Feel free to be weird and unusual also in this area, This time we weren't trying to outsmart everybody else ;) We actually do believe in tarballs and tagging, even if we don't get it right always. We have these instructions for modules in glucose and fructose and of course I recommend them as well to other modules: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Release#Fructose Great. Note that we have lots of activities unmaintained, people maintaining several ex-orphaned activities, activity authors that have no idea how distros are made, etc. Ideally we would have some kind of support group to help those people out, but obviously we don't have such a thing. I am fully aware of the bad apples that can be seen as the Sugar development community flourishing. Those were not my aim in my rant. It seems I misunderstood this thread, so simply apologize for my noise. just beware that you put a slight higher burden on your downstreams every time you choose to stand out from the crowd. So consider the benefits are worth the risk of loosing consumption from some downstreams. Hope that with the above you understand a bit better the situation we are in. Yes, I do. Thanks. Btw, we may want to review our release process in light of: http://www.metux.de/index.php/de/component/content/article/57.html Wauw - that is a cool summary! - Jonas P.S. Please quote only relevant parts of emails. E.g. my GPG hash is completely irrelevant to quote except when preserving my original post in its entirety (which is seldom relevant either). -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] Policy for activities for downstream inclusion
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 07:28:05AM -0500, David Farning wrote: On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 4:47 AM, Sascha Silbe sascha-ml-reply-to-201...@silbe.org wrote: Excerpts from Simon Schampijer's message of Tue Sep 14 16:14:08 +0200 2010: In the .deb side of the universe, we prefer tarballs but we can work directly from the git repository. We should not go from the git repository. Either use the .xo or a tarball. Why? And who is we in this case? For the entire 'why' I will have to refer you to the the Debain mailing lists. /me ducks The short answer is Debian packaging is premised on the idea of a 'pristine source' which historically has been a publicly available tarball. Over the last couple of years Jonas has modified the CDBS (Common Debian Build System) to grab from a properly tagged git repo. I want to clarify a bit here: Debian still very much favor tarballs. If upstreams do not ship tarballs, we need to create a tarball ourselves as part of our packaging efforts. This is bad in my opinion, as there is a higher risk of introducing errors that can go unnoticed: If repackaging accidentally adds, alters or skips some files, then the distributor is unlikely to notice because it is treated as upstream code, and obviously upstream is unlikely to notice too since in fact the (altered) code never appeared upstream. For the Sugar packages in Debian I have gone beyond the minimal requirements in Debian (which includes that mandatory tarball!) in also tracking upstream Git. I do *not* like redistributing directly from Git, and have in the past raised my concern about David Farning and his team of Ubuntu developers packaging directly from Git rather than pushing upstream (i.e. you Sugar guys) to always release tarballs. 'We' is anyone interested in having their activity packages accepted into Debain. He he - I do that typo too. I even mistype my own name as Joans :-) - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] Policy for activities for downstream inclusion
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 09:05:53AM -0500, David Farning wrote: On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 5:27 AM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de wrote: Hi, what is the current status for activity releases in order to include them in distributions like Soas*? Do you guys need tarballs or did you switch over to construct the rpms from the .xo? For example the latest Paint rpm uses the .xo AFAIK (build even the binaries from the non-python sources in the bundle). And is the email from ASLO enough for packagers to know about new releases? Any other notification that packagers need? In the .deb side of the universe, we prefer tarballs but we can work directly from the git repository. True, the Debian workflow generally is optimized for (gzip or bzip2 compressed) tarballs. It is possible to step aside from that and custom generate tarballs based on whatever unusual formats provided upstream, e.g. pulling it out of Git repositories or extracting from xo packages. But then we loose some of the nice infrastructure, like automatic tracking of new releases across all 30.000 upstreams. I believe Debian is not alone in preferring tarballs from upstream authors. I believe it is quite general in the FLOSS world. Feel free to be weird and unusual also in this area, just beware that you put a slight higher burden on your downstreams every time you choose to stand out from the crowd. So consider the benefits are worth the risk of loosing consumption from some downstreams. I have cced jonas for an official position. Thanks for notifying me, David. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] sugar-presence-service-0.90.1
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 12:18:32PM -0400, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: This release is only made because a 0.90.0 was made before 0.88.1. So with this, the latest released code has the highest version number, although unfortunately we have an unstable release with an even number. Sorry for the confusion, time will fix it somewhat. Not sure if I am the only one still confused here: is presence-service abandoned for 0.90 branch of Sugar, should 0.90.x be used? or should 0.90.x be used for 0.88 branch and 0.89.x be used for 0.90 branch? Or...?!? Could you perhaps spell out explicitly for all Sugar branches which release of sugar-presence-service to use (if at all)? Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [Fwd: Dependency on python-cjson - dead upstream]
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 08:54:38AM -0300, Bernie Innocenti wrote: El Tue, 24-08-2010 a las 10:10 +0100, pbrobin...@gmail.com escribió: Hi Bernie, Funny this should come up. When Sebastian and I were packaging up sugar and deps for EPEL-6 I discovered this and scratched my head over it but haven't had time to follow up. Looking through the various sugar packages I see most of them use python-simplejson so if it could be verified that sugar-datastore does in fact work with python-simplejson I would happily change it over to simplify and reduce deps. No, it indeed still uses cjson. Sascha, could you provide a patch to convert it to simplejson? Please beware that sugar-toolkit, and activities Browse, Chat, Read and Speak, also use cjson. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [Fwd: Dependency on python-cjson - dead upstream]
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 02:35:48PM +0100, pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 1:42 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: Please beware that sugar-toolkit, and activities Browse, Chat, Read and Speak, also use cjson. sugar-toolkit according to the requires in the spec file uses python-simplejson but that doesn't mean that its historically wrong and just works due to the fact that sugar-datastore pulls in the dep. Perhaps that spec file is wrong, then: jo...@auryn:sugar-toolkit ((master))$ git checkout v0.89.3 Previous HEAD position was 463da56... Prepare release: Update changelog, control file and copyright check. HEAD is now at d6da506... Release 0.89.3 jo...@auryn:sugar-toolkit ((d6da506...))$ git grep cjson src/sugar/activity/activity.py:import cjson src/sugar/activity/activity.py:self.metadata['buddies_id'] = cjson.encode(buddies_dict.keys()) src/sugar/activity/activity.py:self.metadata['buddies'] = cjson.encode(self._get_buddies()) Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] sugar-presence-service-0.90.0
On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 12:33:40PM -0400, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: there are no changes in this release, it is made just to bump the release version number. Thanks! Please also tag the Git repository - and remember to push it :-) Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] No sugar-base or sugar-presence-service releases for 0.90 branch?
On Thu, Aug 05, 2010 at 02:11:38PM +0200, Simon Schampijer wrote: On 07/21/2010 12:14 PM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: I am currently releasing the 0.90 (a.k.a. 0.89.x) branch of Sugar for Debian. The parts sugar, sugar-artwork and sugar-toolkit have Git tags and tarballs in the 0.89.x series, but not sugar-base or sugar-presence-service. there have been no changes to those modules yet. I was wondering about doing a release today - just to bump the version number, but was not sure what is more convenient. You as a packager, what would you prefer? Yes, for base parts (the subset of Sucrose which all activities depend on) it makes best sense for me as distributor that each branch has a complete set of tarballs. Alternatively there ought to be a single, obvious to find canonical place which declared which parts officially span which multiple branches. But really I prefer the (in my opinion) simpler approach of simply rereleasing with bumped version number, even if nothing has changed. This *only* relates to core parts. Activities we have no problems in Debian handling even if they span multiple branches. Or actually, we do have problems with it currently, but that is due to bugs in the CDBS plugin that I developed for it, not a problem with your releases. :-) - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] sugar-0.84.19
On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 12:18:59PM -0400, d...@laptop.org wrote: == Source == http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar/sugar-0.84.19.tar.bz2 Great. Please remember to tag the release and push that tag. Apparently it is missing currently. Regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] No sugar-base or sugar-presence-service releases for 0.90 branch?
Hi, I am currently releasing the 0.90 (a.k.a. 0.89.x) branch of Sugar for Debian. The parts sugar, sugar-artwork and sugar-toolkit have Git tags and tarballs in the 0.89.x series, but not sugar-base or sugar-presence-service. Why? ...have I perhaps missed some major structure changes? Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Git tag missing for sugar-datastore 0.89.1 tarball release
Hi, As subject says, it seems sugar-datastore lack a Git tag v0.89.1 corresponding the recent tarball release. Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] sugar-artwork 0.84 and 0.86 apparently out of sync
On Thu, Jul 01, 2010 at 03:14:38PM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 16:49, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: Hi, It seems that sugar-artwork Git is tagged as at version 0.84.2, but the corresponding tarball is missing from http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-artwork/ . Also, I suspect (based on Sascha Silbe reporting[1]) that the GTK_WIDGET_HAS_FOCUS bugfix applied in 0.88 branch should be backported to both 0.86 and 0.84. Thanks for the heads up, I'm adding it to my list in case nobody does it before. I tried backporting, and noone complained so far: http://git.debian.org/?p=collab-maint/sugar-artwork.git;a=blob;f=debian/patches/1001_avoid_deprecated_GTK_API.patch;hb=7f7a47 http://git.debian.org/?p=collab-maint/sugar-artwork.git;a=blob;f=debian/patches/1001_avoid_deprecated_GTK_API.patch;hb=05cf34 - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] sugar-artwork 0.84 and 0.86 apparently out of sync
On Thu, Jul 01, 2010 at 05:15:31PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: On Thu, Jul 01, 2010 at 03:14:38PM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 16:49, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: Hi, It seems that sugar-artwork Git is tagged as at version 0.84.2, but the corresponding tarball is missing from http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-artwork/ . Also, I suspect (based on Sascha Silbe reporting[1]) that the GTK_WIDGET_HAS_FOCUS bugfix applied in 0.88 branch should be backported to both 0.86 and 0.84. Thanks for the heads up, I'm adding it to my list in case nobody does it before. I tried backporting, and noone complained so far: http://git.debian.org/?p=collab-maint/sugar-artwork.git;a=blob;f=debian/patches/1001_avoid_deprecated_GTK_API.patch;hb=7f7a47 http://git.debian.org/?p=collab-maint/sugar-artwork.git;a=blob;f=debian/patches/1001_avoid_deprecated_GTK_API.patch;hb=05cf34 ...and 5 days from now, if still noone finds bugs in the latest packaging release, the patches will appear at these nicer URLs: http://patch-tracker.debian.org/package/sugar-artwork-0.86 http://patch-tracker.debian.org/package/sugar-artwork-0.84 ...similarly all other Debian packages has such URLs for easy lifting patches :-) - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] sugar-artwork 0.84 and 0.86 apparently out of sync
Hi, It seems that sugar-artwork Git is tagged as at version 0.84.2, but the corresponding tarball is missing from http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-artwork/ . Also, I suspect (based on Sascha Silbe reporting[1]) that the GTK_WIDGET_HAS_FOCUS bugfix applied in 0.88 branch should be backported to both 0.86 and 0.84. Kind regards, - Jonas [1] http://bugs.debian.org/583578 -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] #1669 UNSP: Accessibility - keyboard
On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 09:03:59AM -0300, Esteban Arias wrote: I added Makefile.in because other extensions on the src.rpm have this file 2010/6/23 James Cameron qu...@laptop.org Are you sure you should be adding Makefile.in to the repository? It is an automatically generated file. Typically it makes sense to only include Makefile.am files in VCS (e.g. git) as that source is targeted developers who can be expected to have adequate versions of autotools installed and able to use them properly, and include Makefile.in files as well with release tarball (and source rpm files, I assume) as that is targeted consumers (e.g. distributors and hardcore users) who can only be expected to have a more limited development environment and possible largely varying versions of tools. Regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar with a virtual (onscreen) keyboard
On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 02:01:52AM +0530, Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote: On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 12:35 PM, Jonas Smedegaard jo...@jones.dk wrote: Hi Sayamindu (and others), On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 05:46:43PM +0530, Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote: [Apologies for the cross-posting] Thanks to the pointers provided by Peter Robinson, I got the Meego FVKBD (Free Virtual Keyboard)¹ running along with Sugar. Thoughts, feedback, etc would be appreciated :-). I am not familiar with these details, so just shooting in the dark here: Perhaps looking at (i.e. get interface inspiration or steal code from) the alternative virtual keyboard implementation Literki, which seems to have happy followers among Debian OpenMoko users: http://git.senfdax.de/?p=literki Thanks for the pointer to this. It seems however that it's written directly using Xlib, and hence would be unusable for complex scripts like Arabic, Indic, etc. Ah, ok. Too bad. Personally I never succeeded getting those script engines to work on my laptop (and have only esoteric use for them - i.e. suspect them to not even be used for cyrillic which is the only non-latin script I grasp), so wasn't aware of this important issue. Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] De-yellowing page images?
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 10:19:13AM -0500, James Simmons wrote: I'm asking this question here because at the moment I don't know where else to ask. The question relates to the Reading And Sugar book I'm doing. I'm scanning in book pages of a book printed in 1928. The pages are quite yellow, but readable. A sample is at: http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/ReadingandSugar/ScanningBookPages I'd like to lighten or remove the yellowing from the pages to make the book more attractive. Maybe leave the text alone and replace everything else with white. I tried different things with GIMP without much luck. Any ideas? Perhaps simply scan in greyscale rather than color? Also, you might be interested in postprocessing with unpaper: http://unpaper.berlios.de/ Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [PATCH] use ConsoleKit instead of HAL for shutdown/reboot
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:12:43AM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote: On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 1:32 AM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote: On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 07:55:45PM -0400, Chris Ball wrote: Now, if one also stops HAL, the shutdown or restart options don't work, and shell.log says: I thought the point of these patches was to move from HAL to ConsoleKit so surely it should work whether HAL is there or not especially with everyone moving away from HAL to ConsoleKit/upower/udisk/udev etc/ I do not know those mechanisms intimately, but can easily imagine that on some (versions of some) systems the transition has not completed yet so that *other* parts of the chain fail if HAL is unavailable. Regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Who maintains Hulahop?!?
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 09:08:34PM +0100, Lucian Branescu wrote: I have applied to GSoC with this http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Summer_of_Code/2010/AbstractBrowser. In short, it's a project to make Browse (mostly) engine-independent. Wauw, that seems quite interesting, long term. Could you perhaps be convinced to have a go at looking into this specific problem that I have raised, and the related cleanup of the use of Xulrunner which Mike have suggested? Now, before GSoC? Kind regards, and good luck with your related project! - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Who maintains Hulahop?!?
On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 12:15:54PM +0100, Lucian Branescu wrote: Unfortunately, I'm quite busy now with a school project and work, and I have to revise for exams. If I find time, I'll have a look at that. Thanks. School and work obviously has higher priority. I would really appreciate if you (or anyone else!) could squeeze in a bit of time to look at this. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Who maintains Hulahop?!?
Hi again, On Wed, Apr 07, 2010 at 07:19:58PM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 22:41, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: I am wondering: Who maintains Hulahop? It's unmaintained as per http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Release/Modules#hulahop :( I can find time to discuss and review any fixes. Thanks for caring about this, ...and soon after this thread died out again :-( With noone in Sugarlabs maintaining the code, and incapable myself to maintain it, I now strongly consider dropping Browse from Debian! This is a cry for help: It really really feels weird with such a central piece of the Sugar environment being dead code. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Who maintains Hulahop?!?
Hi Peter (and others), On Thu, Apr 08, 2010 at 10:19:11AM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote: On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 9:41 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: Hi Sugar developers, I am wondering: Who maintains Hulahop? The code currently works in Debian only because I leave alone a hardcoded rpath, which I am told is bad. As I understand it, Ubuntu has a hard time getting the code to work properly, possibly due to same issue. I would like to discuss that issue with those of you involved in the coding of Hulahop, and fellow Debian developer Mike Hommey, who maintains xulrunner and seems an expert in this area, have offered to help clean up the code. There doesn't seem to be an rpath issue with the build in Fedora. You can try the details that Fedora specifies for fixing rapth issues, it will work for any build system as its generic for autoconf based buils. The section for 'removing rpath' is probably what your after. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines#Beware_of_Rpath Thanks for the suggestion. tried that already, however (using chrpath), but the library then fails completely. As I understand it, this is tied to how xulrunner is compiled, so if it just works on Fedora, I suspect this to be becuase the library paths of xulrunner is already included in some lookup path somewhere. I really do not know the details here, which is why I involved Mike Hommey who packages xulrunner for Debian and have offered to help improve the Hulahop code to (as I understand it) a more generic style usable not only on systems happening to be modelled the same as Fedora. Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.88.0 Stable Release
On Thu, Apr 08, 2010 at 05:04:21PM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 02:06, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: what I seek: A political decision from a release team, maintained at some location easy to watch for changes. Not sure if we have someone with spare cycles to do this job. Are such political decisions taken at all? If so, cc me directly (I might very well miss posts on these very active Sugarlabs lists), and I volunteer to attempt maintaining a concise listing on a wiki page. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Who maintains Hulahop?!?
On Wed, Apr 07, 2010 at 07:19:58PM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 22:41, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: Hi Sugar developers, I am wondering: Who maintains Hulahop? It's unmaintained as per http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Release/Modules#hulahop :( Oh. :-( I can find time to discuss and review any fixes. Thanks. Please read my former post a few days ago... Regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Who maintains Hulahop?!?
Hi Sugar developers, I am wondering: Who maintains Hulahop? The code currently works in Debian only because I leave alone a hardcoded rpath, which I am told is bad. As I understand it, Ubuntu has a hard time getting the code to work properly, possibly due to same issue. I would like to discuss that issue with those of you involved in the coding of Hulahop, and fellow Debian developer Mike Hommey, who maintains xulrunner and seems an expert in this area, have offered to help clean up the code. Simon? Tomeu? You guys seem to be tha last ones messing with the Hulahop code back in september 2009. Please respond. Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] xulrunner and rpath
Hi Sugar developers (and Mike), Mike Hommey maintains Debian packaging of xulrunner. I asked him about the use of hardcoded rpath in Hulahop, which is generally a bad idea and its use is being hunted down in Debian. He had a look at the Hulahop code and suggestions for improvements. He is kindly offering to help with this if necessary. Please read below - and please cc him on responses (no need to cc me, I am subscribed to this list): On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 03:12:51PM +0200, Mike Hommey wrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 02:23:24PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 08:52:28AM +0200, Mike Hommey wrote: On Sun, Apr 04, 2010 at 11:33:01AM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: Hi Mike, I maintain python-hulahop packaging for Debian. This package does not strip rpath, and I am pretty sure that the reason for that was some instructions provided by you. That must have been a long time ago, then. It was Wed May 7 2008 - is that a long time in this context? It was at the time xulrunner 1.9 was introduced to Debian. Now that I look at the VCS history of python-hulahop, it might actually be that it was not following your instructions but fumbled on my own (I added chrpath and removed it again later same day, with no reference to that web page I seem to recall reading from you). Hm. Now ftpmasters auto-rejects python.hulahop based on a lintian check discovering that rpath, and I want to do the sane thing and double-checking that the rpath really should be preserved, as part of hiding that lintian warning. So question is: Do xulrunner need rpath preserved? And if so, where is the documentation for that, as I seem to have forgotten. Normally, rpath is not needed (anymore). I tried now to strip the rpath using chrpath, and immediately the code stops working, spewing the following error: ImportError: libxul.so: kan ikke åbne delt objektfil: Ingen sådan fil eller filkatalog ...translated from danish to english, it says something like this: ImportError: libxul.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory Maybe relevant: I added +LDFLAGS += -L/usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9 to the build routines, as fix for bug#494225. Which just does nothing, since it is /usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9.1, now. Could I persuade you to help investigate this issue - even if perhaps not rooted in your package but some bug in Hulahop itself? It seems to me the root of the problem is that python-hulahop is using the linked glue instead of the standalone glue. I also wonder why it's not using pyxpcom for xpcom initialization, instead of having its own stuff in hulahop.cpp, though I don't really know what pyxpcom permits exactly. Anyways, it seems to me the XRE_InitEmbedding call should be replaced by the following sequence: GRE_GetGREPathWithProperties XPCOMGlueStartup XPCOMGlueLoadXULFunctions XRE_InitEmbedding If you need assistance with these, please bug me. Mike -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.88.0 Stable Release
On Thu, Apr 01, 2010 at 12:35:20PM +0200, Simon Schampijer wrote: 0.88 is the latest version of Sugar, consisting of Glucose, the base system environment; and Fructose, a set of demonstration activities. This new release contains many new features, performance and code improvements, bug fixes, and translations. Congratulations to all involved! Sorry to ask - again: Where is the official documented list of contents of Glucose and Fructose for each major release of Sugar? I fail to locate it at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.88/Notes and the directly referenced http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Taxonomy is too broad. I would like to check - for each of 0.84, 0.86 and 0.88 - how close to the official compositions we are in Debian currently. Please do not post the detailed answer in an email response, but refer to the wiki page which is (supposed to) contain this info. :-) Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.88.0 Stable Release
On Thu, Apr 01, 2010 at 04:32:59PM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote: On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: On Thu, Apr 01, 2010 at 12:35:20PM +0200, Simon Schampijer wrote: 0.88 is the latest version of Sugar, consisting of Glucose, the base system environment; and Fructose, a set of demonstration activities. This new release contains many new features, performance and code improvements, bug fixes, and translations. Congratulations to all involved! Sorry to ask - again: Where is the official documented list of contents of Glucose and Fructose for each major release of Sugar? I fail to locate it at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.88/Notes and the directly referenced http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Taxonomy is too broad. I would like to check - for each of 0.84, 0.86 and 0.88 - how close to the official compositions we are in Debian currently. Please do not post the detailed answer in an email response, but refer to the wiki page which is (supposed to) contain this info. :-) Its not changed for quite some time and can be found here: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Release/Modules Thanks. It seems that page is not exactly what I am looking for, however. Or let me try throw a couple of trick questions: * Do newest release of Browse work on 0.84? * Is (newest releases of) jukebox and imageviewer part of 0.84? If you do not care about tracking 0.84 any longer then what revision of which wiki page should I go look for latest info on that abandoned release? Kind regards, - Jonas P.S. Sorry for posting initially to both devel and iaep lists. I consider this question mostly technical so have now added only devel list as Reply-To - please respond to that list only. -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.88.0 Stable Release
Hi Peter, On Thu, Apr 01, 2010 at 06:09:26PM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote: Ah, so you want a matrix of what the latest version of each activity that is supported on each of the major releases of sugar? I'm not sure that exists in particular but a.sl.o should have the supported versions of sugar for each activity. No. I would want a matrix of a) which libraries are considered Glucose, b) which applications are considered Fructose. I am not interested in which versions are possible to get working against the rest of the environment or which add-on libraries or add-on applications are possible to mix with the core software released by Sugarlabs. Only which parts and versions are officially supported by Sugarlabs. Something like http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.88/Platform_Components but describing Sugarlabs code rather than underlying code. Hope that helps :-) - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.88.0 Stable Release
On Thu, Apr 01, 2010 at 05:24:08PM -0400, Walter Bender wrote: On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: Hi Walter (and others). On Thu, Apr 01, 2010 at 12:07:55PM -0400, Walter Bender wrote: On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: * Do newest release of Browse work on 0.84? I believe the answer is yes. Specifically for 0.84 I believe that some activities only supports the redesigned toolbar, and judging from its Git source branching Browse is one of those. Hmm. I was pretty sure that Browse had support for both styles of toolbars. But apparently I am mistaken. As Peter mentioned, the database in ASLO keeps track of which versions of which activities go with the various Sucrose releases. I suppose those data should be in the wiki somewhere as well, at least for Fructose. I understand that, but see a difference between what is *available* (at ASLO) and what is *included* (as core Sugar). I now found partly what I was looking for in the Roadmap pages: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.84/Roadmap http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.86/Roadmap http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.88/Roadmap Above pages contain at the bottom lists what appears to be release team approved lists of libraries and applications part of each major release. What I still miss is a similarly authoritative version ranges - similarly to the lists at these pages: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.84/Platform_Components http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.86/Platform_Components http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.88/Platform_Components Also it would be great if http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.84/Roadmap was updated to clarify if the Proposed modules was later rejected or are now officially part of Sugar since some minor version of 0.84. * Is (newest releases of) jukebox and imageviewer part of 0.84? The maintainers of 0.84 would have to answer this question. They are doing quite a bit of backporting. The question here was not if it _works_ with 0.84, but instead if it is considered as _part_ of the core Sugar environment. So when you mention backporting efforts, I suspect that we are not talking about the same thing - or perhaps your use of backporting is what I would call deriving. I mean backporting in the sense that they are taking a number of patches made for 0.88 and applying them to 0.84. So the definition of core Sugar for 0.84 is a bit of a moving target. Not being a distro person, I can only imagine that leading to some confusion, but for the most part, the backporting is confined to strategic bug fixes as opposed to redefinitions of components. There is a particular focus on 0.84 because it is being rolled out on the new OLPC hardware and in many of the larger Sugar deployments. I guess that's what I call backporting as well. What confused me (now that I reflect a bit more on it) is not the backporting term, but the very act of backporting into a stable release, rather than aside it. Debian has logic of not introducing new features into a branch after it has been released as stable. In other words, it is simply me being too used to thinking in Debian logic here :-) - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.88.0 Stable Release
On Thu, Apr 01, 2010 at 05:26:36PM -0400, Walter Bender wrote: On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: * Do newest release of Browse work on 0.84? Checking ASLO, Browse 112 is marked as working with 0.86; Browse 108 is marked as working with 0.84. Thanks. I was aiming at more general lists of info, however - Browse just being one example. I can go hunt down the info at ASLO for each and every chunk of code related to Sugar in some way. But that would be too error prone, and I feel that my time then would be better spent not giving a shit about compliance with Sugarlabs and just throw together for Debian what I findworks together - not caring if it is coming from Sugarlabs or from other sources. Can you follow how I would like a more coordinated approach? I guess what I really try to express here is that I imagine that distributors in general would appreciate if Sugarlabs maintained info on what was considered the official core Sugar for each major release of it - somewhere easy for distributors to compara against. Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.88.0 Stable Release
On Fri, Apr 02, 2010 at 10:21:50AM +1100, James Cameron wrote: On Fri, Apr 02, 2010 at 12:34:26AM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: I can go hunt down the info at ASLO for each and every chunk of code related to Sugar in some way. Erk. What a strange concept. Is this ASLO database available in any other public form than run Browse from a Sugar instance and search for an activity? Couldn't the dependency on, or compatibility with, specific versions of Sugar be mentioned in the activity source? Why keep it separate? * There's (sometimes) comments in release notes. * There's alternative branches in Git * There's discussions on mailinglists * There's ASLO database All of those - and also hints in source itself - are different from what I seek: A political decision from a release team, maintained at some location easy to watch for changes. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Please tag tarball releases in git repository, e.g. Sugar 0.87.2
On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 05:51:32PM +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: Ping! Was that targeted me? If so, why? Sugar 0.87.2 was packaged for Debian on january 1st and entered testing earlier today. Status for that specific package is here: http://packages.qa.debian.org/s/sugar-0.88.html Status for all team-maintained Sugar-related packages are here: http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=debian-olpc-de...@lists.alioth.debian.org Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Please tag tarball releases in git repository, e.g. Sugar 0.87.2
On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 07:46:11PM +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 18:35, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 05:51:32PM +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: Ping! Was that targeted me? If so, why? Sorry, this as targeted to Simon about committing the patch for sugar-tools. Ah, ok :-) - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Development
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 09:11:35AM +0100, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 06:33, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote: On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 07:40:01AM -0500, Walter Bender wrote: Informally, we have such a list from Peru, which is our largest Sugar deployment. They use a core set of activities and have expressed the desire to see that set (a) reach a level of increased stability; and (b) run reliably on newer versions of Sugar [...] Helping track down open tickets with any activities on this list would be of great benefit. And a polite reminder that there are now at least three places you might find tickets ... sugarlabs.org, laptop.org, and launchpad. ;-) Not really, every distributor of Sugar has their own tracker. I would suggest anyone wanting to help with this to focus on only one tracker. I wholeheartedly agree: If you want to help develop _Sugar_ then focus on the _Sugarlabs_ issue tracker, and if you want to help develop some specific _distribution_ of Sugar then watch the tracker of that. :-) The laptop.org tracker is for OLPC distribution of Sugar, and Launchpad tracker is for Ubuntu and SoaS distributions. Work directly on the thing you are passionate about, and then (as secondary priority!) stretch that passion as far up- and/or downstream as you feel like. Regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Please tag tarball releases in git repository, e.g. Sugar 0.87.2
Hi, Please do remember to tag tarball releases in Git repositories. Those tags are helpful for (some) distributors - like me :-) Concretely Sugar 0.87.2 released december 21st lack a tag about that. Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Development
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 02:07:07PM +0100, Martin Langhoff wrote: On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 9:11 AM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: And a polite reminder that there are now at least three places you might find tickets ... sugarlabs.org, laptop.org, and launchpad. ;-) Not really, every distributor of Sugar has their own tracker. I would suggest anyone wanting to help with this to focus on only one tracker. I grumble a bit about that -- the proliferation of trackers adds to our burden. Other than packaging issues, most bugs reported against any distro are very likely to affect the core Sugar and all the distros (since most of the stack is shared). We'd need a polished distributed bugtracker. And a pony. Yeah, and we need a simple build system, not both autotools, cmake, sCons, ANT etc. And a single programming language instead of both Python, Perl, C, C++ etc. I suspect it is a dead run to convince all distributors and all upstreams to use same issue tracker. A monoculture is *much* easier to grasp, but also radically different from how FLOSS works (and works well, IMHO!). So more realistically, I'd say that each derivative, either a distributor of some upstream source or a for(re)distributor of a distribution, should take responsibility on giving back their accumulated knowledge on bugs not only related to local oddities. As I posted earlier: First work directly on the thing you are passionate about (i.e. the hacker approach of an itch to scratch) and then if/when you have surplus energy then expand beyond your own selfish needs/wants: reflect on how you might improve giving back to your upstream. Or concretely: 0) File discovered bugs in local-to-you issue tracker 1) Deal with bugs in local-to-you issue tracker 1a) Fix bugs caused by local-to-you code changes 1b) Pass on upstream issues that turn out to have a larger scope 2) Hunt down issues remotely tracked that might affect you too 3) Hunt down issues unstructurally discussed but not yet tracked 4) Hunt down issues not yet discovered at all (e.g. evil code patterns) If what you mean simply is that Sugarlabs, OLPC and SoaS (and those three alone) ought to share a single issue tracker, then sorry for my rant - I'll keep out of such discussion. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [Feature] activity.info enhancements
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:43:56PM -0500, Walter Bender wrote: Summary: It would facilitate the packaging of Sugar activities into RPMs and DEBs if there were additional information available in the activity.info file. Details: In walking the process of creating an RPM of one of my activities with Sebastian Dziallas, who is doing lots of packaging for Fedora and SoaS, we observed that many fields in packages' .spec files could readily be pulled from the activity.info file. A few additional fields would be necessary, such as the following: * a short summary * an URL to the source package * an URL to the activity home page * the required dependencies to run I would use such hints only as inspiration for Debian packaging, not rely on it. The reason for this is that I would not expect upstream software authors to know all the nitty gritty details of policies governing Debian packaging - e.g. how we name the dependencies. Even if they did know better than me I still would need to double-check, as ultimately I am responsible for the quality of packaging that I maintain, not upstream. Since the hints most likely won't be machine-processed (I suspect other distributors will do as me - it seems irresponsible to me to automate), I strongly recommend to use the de-facto GNU filenames: INSTALL for notes relevant only at install time (i.e. both for manual install and for distributors) and README for hints targeted end-users. None of these additional fields need be required, but their inclusion would make things easier. (This is not a new idea, but one that seems timely given all the upstream interest in Sugar these days.) I guess you meant _downstream_ interest above. Distributors are downstream to Sugarlabs, only GTK+, Python and similar are upstream, and I suspect that's not the ones gaining interest in Sugar. Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [Feature] activity.info enhancements
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 09:39:15PM -0500, Walter Bender wrote: On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 8:20 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:43:56PM -0500, Walter Bender wrote: Summary: It would facilitate the packaging of Sugar activities into RPMs and DEBs if there were additional information available in the activity.info file. I would use such hints only as inspiration for Debian packaging, not rely on it. None of these additional fields need be required, but their inclusion would make things easier. (This is not a new idea, but one that seems timely given all the upstream interest in Sugar these days.) I guess you meant _downstream_ interest above. Distributors are downstream to Sugarlabs, only GTK+, Python and similar are upstream, and I suspect that's not the ones gaining interest in Sugar. Yes. Downstream. :-) I based my proposal on a discussion with only a small sample of packagers. I take it from both Jonas and Aleksey that there may be better ways of assisting packagers. The goal is that activity developers do have a lot of knowledge about their creations and it would make sense to have them express it in some way that would save work for others. But what form this expression takes I leave to those more knowledgeable. I certainly agree that sharing such info makes good sense - it only worried me if using a machine-readable format as that could create an expectation among activity developers of it being used automatically by distributors which I wouldn't do myself and recommend against others doing either. Jonas, it may make sense not to depend on things like dependency names, etc. but I can imagine things like a summary, description, URL of the homepage, etc. could be reasonable to accept from developers. It makes good sense for upstream to clearly express such metadata, but I still see it as distribution choice if using it verbatim or not. As an example, the distributor may have a different interpretation of Homepage than upstream (as has been discussed before on this list). If you really want to use a machine-readable format then I recommend using DOAP instead of reinventing the wheel. But even if you do, I still recommend to use an INSTALL file as well. Hope that makes sense. If not please keep arguing! :-) - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] sugar-toolkit-0.84.7
On Wed, Dec 09, 2009 at 03:56:40PM +, Daniel Drake wrote: On Wed, 2009-12-09 at 16:04 +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: On Wed, Dec 09, 2009 at 06:53:38AM -0500, Daniel Drake wrote: == Source == http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-toolkit/sugar-toolkit-0.84.7.tar.bz2 Fix bold font style. Just a note for future releases and other distributors wondering like me: it seems you tagged the 0.84.6 release slightly wrong so it included above bold font style fix. It doesn't appear that way - can you be more specific about what you're looking at? Strange: it seems indeed now when double-checking that it was an error at my end (I must've somehow pulled the older-dated but newer bugfix commit when intended to pull only the v0.84.6 release). So please just ignore my earlier post :-/ - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] sugar master will depend on simplejson again
On Fri, Dec 04, 2009 at 01:41:17PM +0100, Sascha Silbe wrote: On Fri, Dec 04, 2009 at 01:17:49PM +0100, Simon Schampijer wrote: [Debian] could it be that 2.5 is only the default and that it is fine for a package to depend on python 2.6? No, that's not the case. Python 2.6 is only available in experimental, not in unstable or testing. Even when Python2-6 appears in unstable, it is most probably a problem still as long as not being the default, due to some Python modules only compiled for the default Python version (multi-version Python module support is optional and raise packaging complexity considerably except when using CDBS, which is discouraged for other reasons by some developers). Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Platform clarifications
On Tue, Dec 01, 2009 at 11:27:27AM +0100, Bert Freudenberg wrote: On 01.12.2009, at 02:43, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: On Tue, Dec 01, 2009 at 02:15:46AM +0100, Bert Freudenberg wrote: On 29.11.2009, at 15:02, Sascha Silbe wrote: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.86/Platform_Components Speaking of Etoys - that 0.86 page lists 4.0.2206, whereas the actual Etoys version in the 0.86 release was 4.0.2319 (and 4.0.2332 in 0.86.2). How come? Should I just change it, and if so, to which version? Also, there have been some bug fixes since then, the current version (good for 0.82 to 0.86) is 4.0.2339. I believe that page should have the minimal version working with Sugar. It is a wiki: feel free to update if the information is wrong :-) I changed it to 4.0.2332. Which means you consider older versions to *not* work with Sugar? Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Platform clarifications
On Tue, Dec 01, 2009 at 02:48:18PM +0100, Bert Freudenberg wrote: On 01.12.2009, at 13:33, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: On Tue, Dec 01, 2009 at 11:27:27AM +0100, Bert Freudenberg wrote: On 01.12.2009, at 02:43, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: On Tue, Dec 01, 2009 at 02:15:46AM +0100, Bert Freudenberg wrote: On 29.11.2009, at 15:02, Sascha Silbe wrote: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.86/Platform_Components Speaking of Etoys - that 0.86 page lists 4.0.2206, whereas the actual Etoys version in the 0.86 release was 4.0.2319 (and 4.0.2332 in 0.86.2). How come? Should I just change it, and if so, to which version? Also, there have been some bug fixes since then, the current version (good for 0.82 to 0.86) is 4.0.2339. I believe that page should have the minimal version working with Sugar. It is a wiki: feel free to update if the information is wrong :-) I changed it to 4.0.2332. Which means you consider older versions to *not* work with Sugar? No, but the page says that these are the versions that activity authors can rely on when targeting Sugar 0.86. Actually, 4.0.2339 has an important fix for etoys-based activities (SugarLabs #1576), but since this was not ready in time for 0.86, activity authors can not rely on it. Python 2.6 was also ready when 0.86 was released, but promising activity authors as a minimum that version raise the bar for distributors. I strongly recommend to promote a more relaxed lowest denominator. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Platform clarifications
On Tue, Dec 01, 2009 at 03:45:08PM +0100, Bert Freudenberg wrote: On 01.12.2009, at 15:13, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: On Tue, Dec 01, 2009 at 02:48:18PM +0100, Bert Freudenberg wrote: On 01.12.2009, at 13:33, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: On Tue, Dec 01, 2009 at 11:27:27AM +0100, Bert Freudenberg wrote: On 01.12.2009, at 02:43, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: On Tue, Dec 01, 2009 at 02:15:46AM +0100, Bert Freudenberg wrote: On 29.11.2009, at 15:02, Sascha Silbe wrote: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.86/Platform_Components Speaking of Etoys - that 0.86 page lists 4.0.2206, whereas the actual Etoys version in the 0.86 release was 4.0.2319 (and 4.0.2332 in 0.86.2). How come? Should I just change it, and if so, to which version? Also, there have been some bug fixes since then, the current version (good for 0.82 to 0.86) is 4.0.2339. I believe that page should have the minimal version working with Sugar. It is a wiki: feel free to update if the information is wrong :-) I changed it to 4.0.2332. Which means you consider older versions to *not* work with Sugar? No, but the page says that these are the versions that activity authors can rely on when targeting Sugar 0.86. Actually, 4.0.2339 has an important fix for etoys-based activities (SugarLabs #1576), but since this was not ready in time for 0.86, activity authors can not rely on it. Python 2.6 was also ready when 0.86 was released, but promising activity authors as a minimum that version raise the bar for distributors. I strongly recommend to promote a more relaxed lowest denominator. Python 2.6 is not part of Sugar. Etoys 4.0.2332 is part of the Sugar 0.86.2 release, not merely a dependency. Oh - off course. It makes perfect sense now :-) - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] sugar-datastore-0.87.1
On Tue, Dec 01, 2009 at 05:39:07PM +, Aleksey Lim wrote: == Source == http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-datastore/sugar-datastore-0.87.1.tar.bz2 Please push Git tags too. For Debian packaging I prefer to track both Git commits and tarball releases in concert, and right now the newest Git tag for sugar-datastore is v0.86.1 - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Platform clarifications
On Tue, Dec 01, 2009 at 02:15:46AM +0100, Bert Freudenberg wrote: On 29.11.2009, at 15:02, Sascha Silbe wrote: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.86/Platform_Components Speaking of Etoys - that 0.86 page lists 4.0.2206, whereas the actual Etoys version in the 0.86 release was 4.0.2319 (and 4.0.2332 in 0.86.2). How come? Should I just change it, and if so, to which version? Also, there have been some bug fixes since then, the current version (good for 0.82 to 0.86) is 4.0.2339. I believe that page should have the minimal version working with Sugar. It is a wiki: feel free to update if the information is wrong :-) - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Platform clarifications (was: Re: [Debian-olpc-devel] Missing deps for sucrose-0.86.)
On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 03:02:15PM +0100, Sascha Silbe wrote: (Repost due to subscribers-only policy on sugar-devel) On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 12:53:48PM +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: Please note that comparing the list of missing dependencies provided by Michael Stone with the components listed in the Sugar Platform page, only EToys is missing. That's good news. Which package does gst-plugins-espeak hide in? It's still on my to-do list for sugar-jhbuild. It is not (yet) packaged for Debian, I believe. Oh, sorry if I missed out on that one... Too bad, IIRC I had trouble building it from source. :-/ Ask me nice and I'll do it :-) Please ask at the Alioth list, not here. I think the Sugar Platform page [1] should list upstream source packages; unless explicitly noted otherwise activity authors can expect that a) Python bindings, b) executables and c) data files provided by the (upstream-)default configuration are installed. Makes sense to me: that is sufficient for arch-independent scripting code to work. Development headers are required only for _distro_ developers. I think, however, that it makes sense to explicitly list the Python bindings that are expected, as version numbers are often not in sync, and sometimes multiple incompatible wrappers exist. It might even make sense to *only* list the Python wrappers - their underlying libraries cannot be linked against directly arch-independently anyway. Once 0install support gets merged, Sugar Platform should be enhanced to include build tools (autocrap, c(++) compiler, ...); in that case, activity authors can also rely on the corresponding -dev(el) packages (i.e. libraries, header files, etc.) to be installed as well. I have not followed the discussions on 0install, but it surprises me that this should be mandatory - I always considered 0install as comparable to a distribution. I might loose interest in Sugar if 0install becomes integral part of core Sugar. But that's another discussion. If there's anything most distros leave out that's included in the upstream defaults, it should be mentioned in the list (i.e. removed from the Sugar Platform). For a single distro (e.g. Debian disabling something Fedora ships) it should be discussed on sugar-devel first. As for the special case of gstreamer, I'd say it should include gstreamer-plugins-good (AFAICT that's an upstream distinction, so distro-agnostic), but not -bad or even -ugly. Especially MP3 support should be kept out (until after all patents have expired, whenever that might be) of the Sugar Platform, as it is a minefield of legal issues. (*) Makes sense. And -good is also listed already, so I whined a bit too much. Python 2.5/2.6 Authors should then know that well-written implies must only use functions supported by *both* Python 2.5 and Python 2.6. Gtk+ 2.16 Debian have moved on to GTK+ 2.18 in Sid, and do not offer the older library as an alternative. [...] Personally I consider the list as minimum version, not exact version (given current distro practices it cannot be the latter). Yes, activity authors should be (made) aware of that and cater for the consequences (which isn't exactly easy, but a different topic). Makes sense to me. I have now updated the Sugar Platform page to say Minimum version and drop the superfluous/confusing newer versions mentioned for Python and CSound. GStreamer 0.10 [...] gstreamer 0.10.14 Huh?!? I guess the capitalized is an ABI and the lowercased one is the actual implementation. So a Sugar Platform must include a specific micro version of the actual implementation of GStreamer?!? Looks like a mistake to me. I've now merged those entries. [1] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.86/Platform_Components (*) There is a way for individual users to legally acquire and use the Fluendo MP3 decoder, but not for (package / image / whatever) distributors (due to patent license restrictions). So as long as any MP3 patent is valid, SoaS cannot legally include an MP3 decoder (only an installer for it, which would require an internet connection during installation). CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Platform clarifications (was: Re: [Debian-olpc-devel] Missing deps for sucrose-0.86.)
On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 05:37:44PM +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 03:02:15PM +0100, Sascha Silbe wrote: (Repost due to subscribers-only policy on sugar-devel) On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 12:53:48PM +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: Please note that comparing the list of missing dependencies provided by Michael Stone with the components listed in the Sugar Platform page, only EToys is missing. That's good news. Which package does gst-plugins-espeak hide in? It's still on my to-do list for sugar-jhbuild. It is not (yet) packaged for Debian, I believe. Oh, sorry if I missed out on that one... Too bad, IIRC I had trouble building it from source. :-/ Ask me nice and I'll do it :-) Please ask at the Alioth list, not here. Just to avoid misunderstandings: I always enjoy working together with Sascha - above was just trying to make a joke, not a grumpy remark as I realize now that it could easily be misunderstood as. Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity Versioning - Dotted Scheme
On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 01:23:22PM -0500, Wade Brainerd wrote: Anecdote: My XO ran out of space over Thanksgiving and automatically deleted Browse at boot time. I downloaded the latest version, but it failed to launch as my XO is running the OLPC 8.2.0 build. This was pretty annoying to me as I didn't have a web browser available to go find out which version *would* work. Hmmm - I believe we were promised that ASLO would ensure that only Activities supported by the client branch of Sugar would be served. Was that a brain fart of mine, a single glitch in an otherwise reliable ASLO version handling, or whould we simply warn Sugar 0.82 users to *not* use ASLO? - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Activity Versioning - Dotted Scheme
On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 03:38:26PM -0500, Wade Brainerd wrote: On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 3:28 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 01:23:22PM -0500, Wade Brainerd wrote: Anecdote: My XO ran out of space over Thanksgiving and automatically deleted Browse at boot time. I downloaded the latest version, but it failed to launch as my XO is running the OLPC 8.2.0 build. This was pretty annoying to me as I didn't have a web browser available to go find out which version *would* work. Hmmm - I believe we were promised that ASLO would ensure that only Activities supported by the client branch of Sugar would be served. Was that a brain fart of mine, a single glitch in an otherwise reliable ASLO version handling, or whould we simply warn Sugar 0.82 users to *not* use ASLO? ASLO does that by checking for the Browse user agent - in my situation, I had to use scp to download Browse from download.sugarlabs.org. Ahh, makes sense then :-) Still, the latest Browse is only about 3400 lines of Python code - I wonder how hard it would be to make it backwards compatible with 0.82. I'll leave that to the real programmers :-) - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Please test out Read 78 and 69
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 03:27:08AM +0530, Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote:
Hello,
Apologies for the cross-posting yet again, but I just released Read 69
for Sugar 0.84 based systems and Read 0.78 for Sugar 0.86 based
systems. Both contain important fixes for handling footnotes in EPUB
files (examples of such files can be seen downloaded from
http://www.feedbooks.com/book/2750 and
http://www.epubbooks.com/book/24/gulliver's-travels). Footnote support
in EPUB has been a subject of debate (google for epub footnote to see
some of the discussions), and hence this has not got much testing.
If possible, please download these two files and let me know if
anything odd happens.
Read can be downloaded from http://activities.sugarlabs.org/
Read v78 fails on Debian, seemingly due to requiring Python 2.6 (Debian
use Python 2.5:
Traceback (most recent call last):
File /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/sugar/activity/activity.py,
line 433, in __canvas_map_cb
self.read_file(self._jobject.file_path)
File /usr/share/sugar/activities/Read.activity/readactivity.py, line
595, in read_file
self._load_document('file://' + self._tempfile)
File /usr/share/sugar/activities/Read.activity/readactivity.py, line
797, in _load_document
self._document = epubadapter.EpubDocument(self._view,
filepath.replace('file://', ''))
File /usr/share/sugar/activities/Read.activity/epubadapter.py, line
47, in __init__
epubview.Epub.__init__(self, docpath)
File /usr/share/sugar/activities/Read.activity/epubview/epub.py,
line 36, in __init__
if not self._verify():
File /usr/share/sugar/activities/Read.activity/epubview/epub.py,
line 111, in _verify
mtypefile = self._zobject.open('mimetype')
AttributeError: ZipFile instance has no attribute 'open'
Kind regards,
- Jonas
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* Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] adding 3G support to Sugar (was Re: Sugarizing an application)
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 12:18:51PM -0800, Peter Robinson wrote: On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 3:44 AM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 08:14:38AM +, Peter Robinson wrote: On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 12:10 AM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote: I think I've seen Ubuntu handling this UI design issue by building a data set of providers. It might be possible to piggy back on some of that work. Well NetworkManager in Fedora which we already use has all that support already so we don't need to piggy back off anything as the tools we use already support all of what we require. All that needs to be done is to extend the sugar interface to add the 3G support that's already in NM. If you want this for _Sugar_ then please do not just rely on a specific distro, but document in an INSTALL file what it is from that particular distro that you rely on - so that other distros can mimic that. If you are not targeting Sugar but just a specific distribution of it like, say, SoaS, then obviously you need not document anything. But it would be sad if you do not target Sugar globally. NetworkManager is distribution agnostic so its not targetted at specific distributions as NM support multiple distros undernearth. That's the advantage of it and one of the reasons its ued! I am perfectly aware that NetworkManager is cross-distro. You, not me, talked about Fedora as a reason to not depend on anything new (isn't depend the meaning of piggy back?). I simply point out a general recommendation to document whatever you choose to depend on - no matter if it is cross-platform or not. KDE is cross-platform too. You probably do not want to depend on *everything* available in Fedora, right? Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
