Re: [OSM-talk] Can somebody give me a hint please?

[Tim Frey]

Hi Jeroen,

when it was taken on a mobile, then you have a high likelihood that the picture 
has exif geo tags... 
Do you think that this is the case?

Best
Tim


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Jeroen Baten  
Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. Juni 2018 10:35
An: talk@openstreetmap.org
Betreff: [OSM-talk] Can somebody give me a hint please?

Hi,

This is a newbie question:
so I have an aerial photo of a part of central France but I don't know the 
exact location.
I know it is max 10 minutes from a city.
I want to find the place on the map.
My photo shows two roads in an angle.
Is there a way I can use to locate where this is?
Some sort of low level GIS query maybe?

Looking forward to your answers.

Kind regards,
Jeroen Baten


-- 
Jeroen Baten  | EMAIL :  jba...@i2rs.nl
   _  __  | web   :  www.i2rs.nl
  |  )|_)(_   | tel   :  +31 (0)345 - 75 26 28
 _|_/_| \__)  | Molenwindsingel 46, 4105 HK, Culemborg, the
Netherlands

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Re: [OSM-talk] Open sourcing of POI pictures for OSM App/STAPPZ - Feedback and ideas wanted

[Tim Frey]

Hi Tobias,

thanks a lot - I'll give it a  try and see what comes out.

Best
Tim

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Tobias Knerr  
Gesendet: Samstag, 19. Mai 2018 14:09
An: Tim Frey 
Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org
Betreff: Re: AW: [OSM-talk] Open sourcing of POI pictures for OSM App/STAPPZ - 
Feedback and ideas wanted

Hi Tim,

On 16.05.2018 10:16, Tim Frey wrote:
> I like the Wikipedia and in special the Wikivoyage direction also. 
> Does somebody know the best touchpoints to get in contact with the 
> community there?

I'm not familiar enough with their communities to give a recommendation.
However, Commons does "partnerships" with owners/maintainers of media
collections: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Partnerships
You could give the contact listed there a try.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Open sourcing of POI pictures for OSM App/STAPPZ - Feedback and ideas wanted

[Tim Frey]

Hi All,

 

short sum up:

We are discussing about “open sourcing/open contenting” our STAPPZ POI picture 
mapping APP for the OSM community and what prerequisites we need to fulfill to 
make this a success.

 

@Kathleen

Thanks a lot for your insights Kathleen, those helped a lot in our internal 
discussions. I appreciate that a lot!

 

@Milo
Thank you so much Milo. Yes, please do!

 

We discussed in our company about the next steps that we would need to take to 
contribute to OSM.

At the end, our discussions boil down to the acceptance and contributions of 
OSM mappers to the picture POI database. 

Logically, it only makes sense for us to take the effort to open source in a 
step by step way, when we have enough support from the community.
In order to make it a sustainable success, we’d like to have a group of people 
or fellow companies who would contribute and help to spread the word. 

 

Therefore, I’d like to ask who would we open minded to support our efforts and 
contribute?

 

If someone has additional thoughts or ideas, please add. 

Best

Tim

 

 

Von: Milo van der Linden  
Gesendet: Freitag, 18. Mai 2018 15:13
An: Kathleen Lu 
Cc: Tim Frey ; OSM Talk 
Betreff: Re: [OSM-talk] Open sourcing of POI pictures for OSM App/STAPPZ - 
Feedback and ideas wanted

 

@Tim,

I can get you in touch with the people at  <http://healthsites.io> 
healthsites.io, they have a model that is complimentary to OSM to maintain a 
lot of information about healthcare around the world where not all attributes 
can be added to OpenStreetMap.

 

2018-05-17 1:17 GMT+02:00 Kathleen Lu mailto:kathleen...@mapbox.com> >:

Tim - 
For GDPR, there's not a lot of clarity yet because the regulation is only going 
into effect next week. I suspect in practice, the answer with be that the 
processing is legal because it is to fulfill the contractual terms (of the 
creative commons license requiring attribution, which is a contract with the 
data subject that basically anyone can accept), and then if removal is later 
requested, then you can remove the image in question (or just the attribution, 
if that's what the person prefers) from your site/app (this is polite anyway). 
The person will have to ask each place for removal, since each place is using 
the image is issuing it for their own purposes. (Generally, with an open 
dataset, you're not going to have a list of everyone who got the dataset so you 
can't send them an update.)

I'm not sure if a photograph catching someone in the background would be a 
problem or not, since they are inadvertently captured and there's no other info 
about them, but I suppose it would be polite to remove or blur the photo if 
someone objected. 

-Kathleen

 

On Wed, May 16, 2018, 1:16 AM Tim Frey < <mailto:tim.f...@iunera.com> 
tim.f...@iunera.com> wrote:

Thank you Kathleen and Tobias,

This is some very valuable insight.

 

>From our terms of use, we could likely open the content, but you are right – 
>it is about what users think. Hence, we will and can ask them. Thanks a lot 
>for rising this point. 

One rising concern, when I read your text, Kathleen, is the GDPR – what happens 
if a user wants content deleted and it is already copied all over the web by an 
open license. Or even worse, a user uploads a picture of a scenery and there 
are human faces in the scenery .. and this picture is distributed. I see 
potential problems here for us and the organizations using the pictures. 
Additional thoughts please? 

 

I like the Wikipedia and in special the Wikivoyage direction also. Does 
somebody know the best touchpoints to get in contact with the community there?

 

In general, I agree to what you said that manual work for content filtering and 
legal issues would be needed – what is also one point for us to discuss with 
the community first: We can provide the software and open source the stuff, but 
to create valuable content for the specific use cases, we’ll need the community 
and partners who share common goals to get this successfully going. So all 
ideas in this direction are welcome, too.

Best

Tim

 

Von: Kathleen Lu mailto:kathleen...@mapbox.com> > 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Mai 2018 00:25
An: Tobias Knerr mailto:o...@tobias-knerr.de> >
Cc: Tim Frey mailto:tim.f...@iunera.com> >; 
talk@openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org> 


Betreff: Re: [OSM-talk] Open sourcing of POI pictures for OSM App/STAPPZ - 
Feedback and ideas wanted

 

Hi Tim,

Your app and what you hope to do with it both sound interesting. I hope you are 
successful.

Here's some more information on the open licensing front to consider:

 - In order to have the legal rights necessary to "open" the material your 
users contributed, you would likely needed to have gotten a perpetual 
irrevocable royalty-free license with an unlimited right to sublicense (not 
limited to only your affiliates, et

Re: [OSM-talk] Open sourcing of POI pictures for OSM App/STAPPZ - Feedback and ideas wanted

[Tim Frey]

Thank you Kathleen and Tobias,

This is some very valuable insight.

 

>From our terms of use, we could likely open the content, but you are right – 
>it is about what users think. Hence, we will and can ask them. Thanks a lot 
>for rising this point. 

One rising concern, when I read your text, Kathleen, is the GDPR – what happens 
if a user wants content deleted and it is already copied all over the web by an 
open license. Or even worse, a user uploads a picture of a scenery and there 
are human faces in the scenery .. and this picture is distributed. I see 
potential problems here for us and the organizations using the pictures. 
Additional thoughts please? 

 

I like the Wikipedia and in special the Wikivoyage direction also. Does 
somebody know the best touchpoints to get in contact with the community there?

 

In general, I agree to what you said that manual work for content filtering and 
legal issues would be needed – what is also one point for us to discuss with 
the community first: We can provide the software and open source the stuff, but 
to create valuable content for the specific use cases, we’ll need the community 
and partners who share common goals to get this successfully going. So all 
ideas in this direction are welcome, too.

Best

Tim

 

Von: Kathleen Lu  
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Mai 2018 00:25
An: Tobias Knerr 
Cc: Tim Frey ; talk@openstreetmap.org
Betreff: Re: [OSM-talk] Open sourcing of POI pictures for OSM App/STAPPZ - 
Feedback and ideas wanted

 

Hi Tim,

Your app and what you hope to do with it both sound interesting. I hope you are 
successful.

Here's some more information on the open licensing front to consider:

 - In order to have the legal rights necessary to "open" the material your 
users contributed, you would likely needed to have gotten a perpetual 
irrevocable royalty-free license with an unlimited right to sublicense (not 
limited to only your affiliates, etc), or an assignment, though the latter is 
far more than needed.

 - But would use of the photos/text outside of the STAPPZ app be consistent 
with your users' expectations for their photos/text? If no, then even if you 
can legally do it you may be passing an unwelcome burden to an open community.

 - What open license would you provide the photos/text under? CC-BY is a common 
one for photos, though it is not inherently compatible with ODbL (the license 
for OSM). There is however a waiver template that makes CC-BY it compatible 
with ODbL: https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/03/17/use-of-cc-by-data/

There is the separate issue with CC-BY that users are supposed to attribute the 
author. Do your users expect/want their names to be attributed to the photos if 
they are used outside the App? This may raise data privacy issues a well 
(especially with GDPR coming into enforcement).

 - As for open source of the code, you'll have a choice between a permissive 
license (e.g. MIT, BSD, ISC, DWTFYW) or a copyleft license (e.g. GPL, LGPL) or 
something in between (MPL, Apache). Permissive licenses make it easier for 
someone else to take over the project, though there is the possibility that 
they will take it in a direction you do not like (e.g., build a new version but 
not open the code to the new version). Copyleft licenses are intended to guard 
against this, but most companies do not like working with copyleft code and 
many ban it, so there would be a smaller pool of potential interest.  

You can see OSMF's current open source projects here: 
https://github.com/openstreetmap. The licenses currently used are ISC, BSD, 
DWTFYW, Apache 2.0, and GPL.

Best of luck! 

-Kathleen

 

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 2:45 PM Tobias Knerr mailto:o...@tobias-knerr.de> > wrote:

Hi Tim,

On 11.05.2018 17:19, Tim Frey wrote:
> Out of this, we consider, heavily, to “open source” the licensing of the
> user created STAPPZ content for the OSM community. In addition, we also
> consider to open source the backend of STAPPZ and the IOS and Android
> app to make a community project out of it.

I'm going to split this reply into two parts: About the content, and
about the software itself.


As for the content, a lot depends on if you can publish the images under
the terms of an open license.¹ That's a legal question, but probably
also a bit of a social one (i.e. would this be in line with what the
creators expected when they shared their images on your app, or would
they be unpleasantly surprised/unhappy about this).

Assuming the answer is that yes, you can publish them, the next question
is what to do with the images. OSM does not currently have an image
hosting platform, so if we're only talking about contributing the
images, they would need to be donated to a separate platform.

The obvious recipient for such an image donation would be Wikimedia
Commons, as they're the most popular repository for open-licensed media.
Images on Commons can be li

Re: [OSM-talk] Open sourcing of POI pictures for OSM App/STAPPZ - Feedback and ideas wanted

[Tim Frey]

Hello Milo,

 

thanks a lot for your long and detailed feedback. I appreciate that a lot.

 

The use cases you described with waste, hazards and so on are interesting – for 
such cases, we implemented a first version to tag posts… so in theory it would 
be possible with the current API.

My key thought is: How and where do we get more users who tell the stories and 
get started with this? Someone has suggestions?

 

The POI database – my original key thought was to link the OSM POIs like 
fountains, restaurants – barely everything to descriptions and pictures to 
provide the most value added to the community.
I’m not certain if this is what you meant by sustainable development goals. 
Therefore, please elaborate if I got this right?

Best
Tim

 

Von: Milo van der Linden  
Gesendet: Sonntag, 13. Mai 2018 13:43
An: Tim Frey 
Cc: OSM Talk 
Betreff: Re: [OSM-talk] Open sourcing of POI pictures for OSM App/STAPPZ - 
Feedback and ideas wanted

 

Hello Tim,

thank you for the broad explanation of your product!

I like the concept and me have some particular use cases for which we now use 
Flickr. I would love to have an alternative to that which could be maintained 
by a community that is closely related to OpenStreetMap. My usecases are 
particular for non-google-dominated areas; where users not only enter travel 
pictures; but also pictures related to particular causes; for instance waste, 
standing water, hazards and more. They are users which are not so tech-savvy 
but have an urgent need to tell "a story" to government, officials, police or 
other matters of public interest.

So a POI database with the possibility to enter pictures and information that 
relate to the Sustainable Development Goals would be awesome. I would love to 
collaborate on such a project.

Kind regards

Milo

 

 

2018-05-11 17:19 GMT+02:00 Tim Frey < <mailto:tim.f...@iunera.com> 
tim.f...@iunera.com>:

Greetings OSM community,

 

my name is Tim and I’m one of the creators of the STAPPZ app. We want feedback 
from the community about our open sourcing plan of the STAPPZ app content.

 

What is STAPPZ: 

STAPPZ is in short an app and a server backend application. The original idea 
was to create crowdsourced version of an insider travel guide, where each user 
can contribute content.

That means, you open the app and you post some pictures and a text at a 
geolocation and when you are online, then the content is uploaded to the server 
and is available on a webmap. This way, you can create a personal travel diary 
map. Our original plan was to extend STAPPZ step by step to create not only 
travel guides, but to also add pictures of POIs

Example:  <https://maps.stappz.com/region/sicilia> 
https://maps.stappz.com/region/sicilia 

Android App demo video:  <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDBh-VrU2Ig> 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDBh-VrU2Ig 

Explanation slides:  
<https://de.slideshare.net/TimFrey2/travel-guides-are-old-news-being-a-local-insider-everywhere-is-today>
 
https://de.slideshare.net/TimFrey2/travel-guides-are-old-news-being-a-local-insider-everywhere-is-today
 

Background:

We managed to get featured with the app at conferences and in a lot of 
magazines (e.g. Computer Bild, Chip) and got over 10k downloads for Android, 
but, frankly speaking, we did not get mass adaption to create a sustainable 
ecosystem. Therefore, we as company had to focus on other projects to earn 
money for living ☹ . 

 

Feedback wanted:

We poured a lot of our personal tears and sweat in coding and marketing STAPPZ 
and today we think that STAPPZ could be used to create picture POI content for 
OSM. We see that need in special, because google maps is offering more and more 
picture POI content from users, and I, personally, do not know such an open 
datapod for open streetmap.

Out of this, we consider, heavily, to “open source” the licensing of the user 
created STAPPZ content for the OSM community. In addition, we also consider to 
open source the backend of STAPPZ and the IOS and Android app to make a 
community project out of it. However, we are a very small company and we cannot 
do that completely alone, we will need help and advice from the community. 

 

Technical details:

Internally, in the app and the backend, we use only OSM data and maps to ensure 
not being bound to legal contracts to google. The Android version is far more 
developed than the IOS version and has complete offline and caching 
functionality to allow posting of pictures form the gallery and to position the 
pictures on a map. Currently, the maps part of the app does not work for 
Android, but we want to enable it as soon as we have time. 

STAPPZ supports gallery uploads with exif data, cached content and many more 
things – if you got questions please ask.

 

Questions to the community:

What do you think about open sourcing the content, the app and so on? Do you 
see a value added for the OSM community?
Would y

[OSM-talk] Open sourcing of POI pictures for OSM App/STAPPZ - Feedback and ideas wanted

[Tim Frey]

Greetings OSM community,

 

my name is Tim and I’m one of the creators of the STAPPZ app. We want feedback 
from the community about our open sourcing plan of the STAPPZ app content.

 

What is STAPPZ: 

STAPPZ is in short an app and a server backend application. The original idea 
was to create crowdsourced version of an insider travel guide, where each user 
can contribute content.

That means, you open the app and you post some pictures and a text at a 
geolocation and when you are online, then the content is uploaded to the server 
and is available on a webmap. This way, you can create a personal travel diary 
map. Our original plan was to extend STAPPZ step by step to create not only 
travel guides, but to also add pictures of POIs

Example: https://maps.stappz.com/region/sicilia 

Android App demo video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDBh-VrU2Ig 

Explanation slides: 
https://de.slideshare.net/TimFrey2/travel-guides-are-old-news-being-a-local-insider-everywhere-is-today
 

Background:

We managed to get featured with the app at conferences and in a lot of 
magazines (e.g. Computer Bild, Chip) and got over 10k downloads for Android, 
but, frankly speaking, we did not get mass adaption to create a sustainable 
ecosystem. Therefore, we as company had to focus on other projects to earn 
money for living ☹ . 

 

Feedback wanted:

We poured a lot of our personal tears and sweat in coding and marketing STAPPZ 
and today we think that STAPPZ could be used to create picture POI content for 
OSM. We see that need in special, because google maps is offering more and more 
picture POI content from users, and I, personally, do not know such an open 
datapod for open streetmap.

Out of this, we consider, heavily, to “open source” the licensing of the user 
created STAPPZ content for the OSM community. In addition, we also consider to 
open source the backend of STAPPZ and the IOS and Android app to make a 
community project out of it. However, we are a very small company and we cannot 
do that completely alone, we will need help and advice from the community. 

 

Technical details:

Internally, in the app and the backend, we use only OSM data and maps to ensure 
not being bound to legal contracts to google. The Android version is far more 
developed than the IOS version and has complete offline and caching 
functionality to allow posting of pictures form the gallery and to position the 
pictures on a map. Currently, the maps part of the app does not work for 
Android, but we want to enable it as soon as we have time. 

STAPPZ supports gallery uploads with exif data, cached content and many more 
things – if you got questions please ask.

 

Questions to the community:

What do you think about open sourcing the content, the app and so on? Do you 
see a value added for the OSM community?
Would you support the project to open source it?

Do you know companies who would be interested in participating? We are open for 
collaborations here.

Do you have own thoughts and points about it? 

 

I’d really like to learn more here. STAPPZ is a really personal baby for us, 
and we’d like that it continues to live. 

 

Thanks a lot for everyone in advance who reads that – and even more thanks to 
the ones who are going to reply with feedback and thoughts.

Even if you just think the idea is good or bad – please tell us that we get a 
picture how the whole community sees it.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Kind regards

Tim Frey

 

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Re: [OSM-talk] Android program with a custom map style

[Tim Teulings]

Hello Mateusz,

I am looking for an Android application that has bicycle-focused map 
style available offline.



I am looking for features like
- ability to distinguish road based on surface (=sand =dirt =asphalt 
should be easy to distinguish)

- oneway arrows displayed based also on oneway:bicycle, cycleway=opposite,
cycleway=opposite_lane tags, not only oneway tag
- displaying bicycle routes
- displaying detailed info about ferries across rivers (at least fee, 
opening_hours,

seasonal and description tags)

I am not expecting that application like this exists and I checked
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Android_applications


You can use libosmscout (http://libosmscout.sourceforge.net/), which is 
a C++ framework/library for writing application using rendering, 
location lookup, routing, which should allow you to do most of the above.


Challenge: C++ under Android can be tricky, if you not use Qt (which is 
supported) and it is a framework, so you have to write your own 
application based on the libosmscout APIs around it.


--
Gruß...
   Tim

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Re: [OSM-talk] Directed Editing Policy

[Tim Waters]

I've a couple of examples, and a couple of questions which might aid the
discussion.

I recently did some work which would label me as both a directee and a
director. For each changeset I added a custom changeset tag which I thought
was the sensible thing to do. It was also helpful for me to be able to
track the work I did, amongst my other edits at that time. I'm assuming
that this bundle of changesets could be searched for an clustered, and that
I wouldn't need to create another changeset tag for a similar tranche of
work in the future. At the time I did actually briefly consider writing a
wiki page about the work, but thought that too onerous (it was a short
project) and against the spirit of OSM (the world should be free to edit
the free map). I thought I shouldn't have to document all my actions to
contribute. If the policy was adopted, I'd have to go along with it. I
would feel less of an equal, or more under scrutiny if I did.

Some time last year I ran a mapping workshop where participants were
mapping a specific type of feature, using custom presets using established
tags. The use of the presets helped ensure that the tags were consistent.
We didn't really use any specific changeset comments or any new tags, but
when Field Papers was used, I believe this was recorded. The custom editor
was able to add changeset tags too. Again the tools help record the custom
sources involved. Before I ran the workshop, although it was free, public
and publicised, and although the project itself was documented on the wiki
and elsewhere, I did not feel any need to document the actual directed
mapping.

These are just my two experiences, the policy as a whole reads well and I
understand that there is an issue which needs addressing, I hope our
discussions can bring some nuance and improve matters.

Now - the questions:
When I was reading the draft policy, I imagined the state of the Wiki.
Would it be polluted full of stale pages of small directed mapping projects
after a few years?
As the suggestion is that a timeframe is added to the page - is this easily
machine readable and parseable within the Wiki software?
Would it be easy to just see currently active projects, or just see those
projects which were upcoming?


Regards,

Tim
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Stats site kickstarter

[Tim Waters]

At time of writing this email, the Kickstarter project has reached its
goal with $1,085 and 18 hours left. This would mean in this case that
the Universe cares about this project, but wouldn't in my mind
indicate that this would mean that volunteers would magically appear
to work on it!

Regards,

Tim

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[OSM-talk] The New Cloud Atlas - Mapping Physical Infrastructure of the Internet with OSM

[Tim Waters]

Hi folks,

with Ben Dalton, I'm happy to properly launch The New Cloud Atlas
project at http://newcloudatlas.org

I've written a blog post to explain it in more detail:
https://thinkwhere.wordpress.com/2016/08/17/the-new-cloud-atlas-mapping-the-physical-infrastructure-of-the-internet/

It's a project to collect and make a map to better understand what
"The Internet" means, physically and geographically. The site has a
tweaked iD editor with custom telecoms presets, it creates a couple of
map tilesets showing these features from OSM, with clickable features
on the map.

We encourage you to map your local data centres, street cabinets,
telephone exchanges, telephone poles, manhole covers and more!

Telecoms features in OSM are not consistently mapped with regards to
each other which could provide an opportunity for some consolidation
or making new taxonomies. I've created WikiProject Telecoms to help
with this tagging discussion:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Telecoms

Cheers and I look forward to your comments!

Tim

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Re: [OSM-talk] Uber most likely using OSM data

[Tim Waters]

Hello,

given they may well have a very large body of GPS traces, they may be
using these to route along.

The way to check if they are using OSM is if the OSM map has
intentional errors - a kink in the road where there is none on aerial
imagery or on our GPS traces, for example.  Some of my early edits
were done just by phone and a bluetooth GPS mouse - in the days before
aerial imagery, and some of the roads had a few bends which were not
there in reality, and this assisted me in identifying some of the
previous users of our database.

Another way is perhaps by comparing the resolution of the data, a bit
like in the examples, showing where the bends meet up - comparing a
road with lots of bends, nodes in a short distance. Seeing if the
vertices match up.

Cheers,

Tim.

On 27 July 2016 at 11:06, Mishari Muqbil  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I checked the about page. There's licensing information for a bunch of
> software and Google maps but nothing for OSM.
>
>
> On Jul 27, 2016 5:02 PM, "Christoph Hormann"  wrote:
>
> On Wednesday 27 July 2016, Mishari Muqbil wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I wrote a blog post
>> <https://www.mishari.net/2016/07/uber-using-osm-data/> comparing
>> Uber's rendering of a sample route displayed in it's app with Google
>> Maps and OSM Mapnik, it seems Uber is using OSM data for this
>> function without any visible attribution to OSM.
>
> Looks like it.
>
> The area shown by the way is here:
>
> http://mc.bbbike.org/mc/?lon=100.565099&lat=13.736474&zoom=17&num=3&mt0=nokia-map&mt1=mapnik&mt2=google-map
>
> Is there any mentioning of OSM in the app?  Like hidden on some 'about
> page' or similar?
>
> --
> Christoph Hormann
> http://www.imagico.de/
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] What pointing device you use for mapping?

[Tim Waters]

I use a trusty Microsoft Intellimouse (although I do not customise the
buttons), but I'm really replying to an observation about a helpful
tip for mapping parties and workshops.

When putting on a mapping party / workshop where people bring their
own laptops, bring a bag of mice for participants to use! The Missing
Maps  / OSM London do this and it seems as if all of them get used.

(I also find it funny, how, several years ago at mapping parties we
used to pass around a bag of GPS units to map, now it's a bag of
mice!)

Back on topic, I'd be curious to hear if the assorted map teams in
companies like Mapbox etc use any specific hardware to point and map
and increase productivity...

Cheers,

Tim

On 13 July 2016 at 07:34, Oleksiy Muzalyev  wrote:
> I also noticed that often moderately priced items are more reliable than
> high-end expensive ones. Probably because they are more widespread, and
> consequently deficiencies in design are noticed, reported, and corrected
> faster. The Nexus Silent Mouse costs about 20 USD. I got so accustomed to a
> soundless mouse that I cannot use normal mice anymore, and not only for
> mapping, each click sounds to me as a gunshot. That is why I keep a spare
> one ready. But I work sometimes in a library where it is very quiet.
>
> I also received an e-mail where it is written that a graphics tablet is
> being used for mapping by a correspondent's acquaintance; that a graphics
> tablet is really precise, helps to map quicker, and that it is so convenient
> that it is impossible to map without it. And that a graphics tablet must be
> with a zoom control.
>
> If such a graphics tablet increases productivity by say twenty or even ten
> percent, then it makes sense to invest in it. Because our working time costs
> much more in the long run. It would be interesting to hear from someone who
> has got firsthand experience of using a specific model of a graphics tablet
> for mapping.
>
> Best regards,
> Oleksiy
>
>
> On 12/07/16 22:10, Andreas Vilén wrote:
>>
>> Nothing fancy. Heavy osming has a tendency to break mice so I only use
>> cheap stuff.
>>
>> Once I bought a fancy one but the precision was so bad I had to change
>> back to the standard Ms mouse...
>>
>> /Andreas
>>
>> Skickat från min iPhone
>>
>>> 12 juli 2016 kl. 10:18 skrev Oleksiy Muzalyev
>>> :
>>>
>>> I use Nexus Silent Mouse SM-8500B [1]. This mouse does not produce a
>>> "click" sound, though there is a tactile click. This type of soundless mouse
>>> makes a difference while working in an OSM editor. I like SM-8500B. I own
>>> three of them, including a spare one. It works fine on Mac and W10.
>>>
>>> There are numerous innovative pointing devices available nowadays, -
>>> graphics tablets, vertical mice, pencil mouse, etc. If you have a positive
>>> experience employing an innovative pointing device design for mapping,
>>> please, let me know.
>>>
>>> [1] https://nexustek.us/mice/sm-8500
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Oleksiy
>>>
>>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] What3words

[Tim Waters]

Heather and folks who are often perplexed,

are you actually perplexed or do you understand but disagree? I ask
because I have heard some mappers say the opposite: "I don't
understand why people would choose w3w!!11". Is it a turn of phrase?
Or a genuine plea for illumination? I often disagree with blind
vitriol, but I try to understand why it exists. The words we say often
give different responses. For example in the UK many people said "I
don't understand why people voted for Brexit" and some of them
genuinely did not know of any reasons why people voted that way
(filter bubble doesnt help), whilst others said that phrase, but could
understand why others voted that way but simply disagreed with the
reasons. Some people simply could not put themselves in the
oppositions shoes. The cognitive dissonance hurts too much.  I
therefore think its not just a turn of phrase for all. So here's a
response which I hope covers both angles:

In this example of w3w should the OSM community or the OSM Foundation
provide reasons why people disagree to help those who do not
understand community responses to product, or, should the OSM
Community or the OSM Foundation communicate better so that differences
of opinion are valued and can coexist with each other? Should reasons
on both sides be listed, or should we work so that blind vitriol and
anti vitriol statements be lowered? Is the problem the thing, or is it
that the thing cannot be easily understood?

Personally, I like w3w, I don't think the promise to release the code
if it goes belly up means anything. Contracts and terms of conditions
can be changed whenever, and it looks like they are aiming to be
acquired. Also, if they are successful it would never be released, so
why should we wait for it? They are VC funded, after all so they want
to grow and get a profit. I disagree mostly with the proprietary 3rd
party access. It's not open and not the OSM way. Its a proprietary
gatekeeper of information, something diametrically opposed to our
little mapping project. Would someone say the proceeding few sentences
was vitriolic? I don't think so. Critical yes. Was it offensive? Maybe
their investors don't like it, but I think it should be allowed to be
said, right?

However, I also disagree with criticism from mappers directed at
Mongolia which is patronising at best. To go with w3w is similar to
any proprietary software contract, which big businesses and big
countries do every day. It's not something I would promote generally,
it's not an open way forward is it? However it gives people jobs, and
its the money making capitalist world we live in. I believe w3w whilst
being a poor choice is a workable choice. And it may be a great choice
for the country if it works for them. If the country asked me, I would
not have recommended w3w, but dont hold it against them! Just like
using closed data, or proprietary software is a poor choice, it does
actually work. Microsoft or Esri products actually work pretty well!
(and so do their better FOSS alternatives of course). I do reserve my
vitriol to protect open data and open source, as this protects this
OSM community and foundation and what I think we stand for. Mongolia,
I believe made a good choice in their eyes for their country.

I hope this helps the perplexity, if there is genuine perplexity. Many
people do not understand the issues, and that's okay, and I want to
help people understand things if they are open to learn. And i hope
this helps understand some of the issues why people disagree with the
project if there is a genuine need to learn about some of these. I
want to help people empathise with others, to put themselves in their
opponents shoes and see that they are not actually opponents after
all!. I suspect the reality in many people's cases with controversial
subjects it is a mixture :)

best regards,

Tim

On 12 July 2016 at 12:12, Heather Leson  wrote:
> Well, slightly off-topic but I am often perplexed by the vitriol in OSM. I
> even shudder to post this statement because the environment has shown itself
> to be hard.
>
> Maybe we can have conversations at SOTM about how to turn this tide in a
> collaborative way.
>
>
> Heather
>
> Heather Leson
> heatherle...@gmail.com
> Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
> Blog: textontechs.com
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson 
> wrote:
>>
>> I don't know if they are using the English version in Mongolia but I doubt
>> it. You can already swap to 8 other languages on their website (top right
>> option).
>>
>> I did discuss Icelandic with Mapillary and they looked into available word
>> sets and concluded that it was more than sufficient to make Iceland itself
>> work in an Icelandic w3w implementation.
>>
>> The circle-jerk is strong here about w3w, they have a human readab

Re: [OSM-talk] Upload slowness - what's going on?

[Tim Waters]

I believe the Dev mailing list may have some of your technical answers
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2016-May/thread.html

It appears from that list that the database servers are now a few
hundreds of miles from where the web servers are, causing the increase
in latency. I do not know if this is a permanent change, the thread on
osm-dev does seem to indicate that things are still in flux.

Tim



On 13 May 2016 at 06:02, Ben Discoe  wrote:
> Several of us have noticed radically slowly upload speed for
> changesets, roughly since the server move on May 9.  Like, as
> painfully slow as it used to be, it's now several times slower.
>
> It's been discussed with @OSM_Tech on twitter, in this thread:
> https://twitter.com/OSM_Tech/status/730857486618664960
>
> Before I get too hysterical, can somebody tell me what happened, and
> can it be fixed?
>
> OSM_Tech's mysterious message:
>   "Large uploads will take around 3 times longer. Small uploads extra
> delay should be minimal."
>
> Does this mean that something did change?  It is database writes that
> are taking so much longer?  Changesets with as few as 400 object are
> taking several times longer, what constitutes "large" vs. "small"?
> Can it be fixed?  Can I donate large sums of money somewhere to help
> it get fixed?
>
> Thanks,
> Ben
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenRandomMap

[Tim Waters]

Great site! I got OpenRiceMap which you could actually imagine happening
(although with maybe the same likelihood happening as OpenSantaMap)
You could add an affiliate link to namecheap or something and give profits
to OSMF!

On 23 January 2016 at 19:04, Russ Nelson  wrote:

> If the goal of having a map on the front page of osm.org is to
> illustrate the extent of our data...
>

I think it was Gregory Marler who said that what he'd really like to see in
the front page is a wireframe view, showing everything at every zoom level
but very minimally styled, points, lines. I think that would look great.

Tim
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Re: [OSM-talk] Is there a OSM map viewer program to dynamically view OSM data?

[Tim Teulings]

Hello Wuzzy,


I was wondering if there is some standalone application (preferable for
PC) to view OSM data as a map, but dynamically and locally (not
from some random computer on the Internet) rendered.


[...]


What I want is an application which renders OSM data directly and based
on configurable user settings, i.e. switching on and off certain
features (like country borders) is as simple as clicking a checkbox.


You build such a tool with libosmscout (libosmscout.sf.net). It is  
designed for offline mobile rendering, routing and location search.  
But of course desktop application can also be build :-)


Libosmscout allows you to generate a (local) database from a given  
*.osm.pbf file with a user definable content. You can then render the  
data in a map using a custom style which can render any subset of the  
data contained in the database. It would also allow you to modify the  
style sheet dynamically (at least this can be very easily added).


The current demo however only shows the main base features so this is  
not yet part of the demo, but a proof of concept should be very easy  
and quick to achieve.

--
Gruß...
   Tim


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Re: [OSM-talk] What3words

[Tim Waters]

As an infrequent poster to osm-talk I think I'm excluded from Colin's "3 or
4 people" and "most active participants" and am not in the Fetted Inner
Core (at least I wasn't the last time I checked!) - however my views are
similar to the ones previously, in this case, very sorry Colin! :-)

In short, What Three Words does initially appear to be a "wow that's cool"
techy project, but given closer inspection it's not that suitable for an
open data project. It is not open or ground verifiable *at the moment*. Yes
it has got recently millions in funding. I frankly would expect more public
pressure to get it used in OSM than there has been. Perhaps they are
avoiding direct pressure until their board demands it, or perhaps they are
approaching the Foundation obliquely. I do know that they have been doing a
lot of work promoting the service to development and humanitarian
organisations, and they really are good at promoting their product. Very
many good quality proprietary data and software for profit companies make
healthy profits from working in the development and humanitarian
industries. One could think that such good causes should be the preserve of
Libre Software and non profit organizations, but that's a fallacy. Anyhow
I'm digressing, sorry!

So, if my local shops start to use it in the future, if "people on the
ground" use it, then I would say it could be added then - but there's no
benefit to mappers, or people on the ground for adding it before that stage.
At that stage, before people actually use it, it's just another way of
encoding location, and therefore redundant. Futhermore in both cases, the
only way for another mapper to tell if the reference is correct is to use
the third party API.

Given their approach and closedness however, I very much doubt that most
people will start using it. Perhaps they will buy into getting a developing
country to use it nationally, but we will have to see what happens. So, in
the future, if normal folks use it on the ground, it may be useful to add
it, in my humble opinion. Perhaps they will open source their algorithm but
keep their APIs and services closed, again we will have to see. Perhaps *if
and when it is used by people on the ground* we can pressure the company to
open up enough of their solution to make it OSM friendly and for them to
still please their board of investors?

But the main reason I don't see it being used in OSM is that it goes
against the spirit of the project.
This spirit of openness, collaborativeness and Libre software. It's closed,
it doesn't look like it will ever be open and it ties the usage of the
system through a closed API.  It's a closed data project, and OSM is *the*
open data project.

Cheers,

Tim
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Re: [OSM-talk] Abandoned Rails

[Tim Waters]

I'd like to recommend OpenHistoricalMap.org (OHM) which will welcome
all types of historical, disused and abandoned features. Please, go
add every abandoned railway to OHM, and then together we can
eventually get an accurate map of 1880s railway network compared to a
1940's, compared to yesterdays world!

Tim



On 22/08/2015, Jason Remillard  wrote:
> Hi
>
>> I'd therefor like to propose that abandoned railways be treated like
>> borders.  Even if you can't see it along a given stretch there are people
>> who can and they have put a huge amount of effort into that work.  Lets
>> respect that and strengthen the community rather than deleting it and
>> doing
>> the opposite.
>
> I 100% agree. The amount of data required to map abandoned railroads
> is tiny. An occasional way through a new development is not going to
> hurt anybody or impair normal mapping activity.
>
> Apparently, the people that like to map railroads think OSM is the
> best place to do this. We are not in any position to be chasing them
> off. OSM has a long, long way to go still. Above all else, it needs to
> more active mappers if we are serious about being the best map for the
> entire world. Also, It seems likely they are also mapping non
> controversial things like roads while working on the railroads.
>
> Dave F, OSM is doing just fine. It is full of contradictions,
> redundancies, disagreements, and broken rules (see the tagging list).
> It is not some kind of business database that requires normalization,
> strict schema definitions, and vigilant protection. It can't have any
> once sentence rules defining its boundaries. It is a great big blank
> sheet of paper, relax and let the railroad people draw on it a bit.
> Nobody is going to get hurt.
>
> Jason
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] When to celebrate OSM birthday?

[Tim Waters]

In previous threads discussing the anniversary, and there have been a few,
there was a generally accepted agreement that the birthday is the time when
the openstreetmap.org domain was first registered, 9 August, which happily
fell on a Saturday last year for the 10th Anniversary.  (This year it's on
a Monday)

Regards,

Tim

On 25 May 2015 at 22:30, Michael Reichert  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> when should we celebrate OSM birthday this year?
>
> It was a weekend in August in 2013 and 2014 I remember. How did you
> "calculate" the date?
>
> It would be nice to know this date early.
>
> Best regards
>
> Michael
>
>
> --
> Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten
> ausgenommen)
> I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM services

[Tim Waters]

cheers!

Glad that mapwarper proved a little bit useful, it was built for OSM.

Tim
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Re: [OSM-talk] ReMAPTCHA Demo BETA 0.2 online! (Was: Hate captchas!!!!)

[Tim Waters]

On 28 April 2014 08:54, Paul Johnson  wrote:

> At least at face value, this presents issues for the US chapter, given
> blind people...
>

The most frequent response I have heard to similar comments in the past was
that the map as a whole presents more of an issue. It may seem a bit
obstructive and glib, but perhaps there is some truth here.  I think it
could be a good opportunity to examine all our infrastructures not only
image representations of geospatial data (i.e  maps).  Blindness is a
spectrum as I understand it - perhaps the lessons that are being learnt in
making OSM more vision impaired people into OSM could be taught to everyone
making mapping tools.

What progress has been made here and how could these be added to improve
this project?



>
>
On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 1:45 AM, Stefan Keller  wrote:
>
>> Hi Kate
>>
>> 2014-04-28 7:40 GMT+02:00 Kate Chapman :
>>
>> > I think there would need to be audio challenges.
>> > There are projects for helping make OSM accessible to people who are
>> vision impaired, this includes information on the OSM wiki.
>>>
>>>
>> I understand. But audio is a complete different technology and our
>> project wanted to focus on visual clues.
>>
>> Yours, Stefan
>>
>>
>> 2014-04-28 7:40 GMT+02:00 Kate Chapman :
>>
>> Hi Stefan,
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 5:42 PM, Stefan Keller wrote:
>>>
 2014-04-27 21:08 GMT+02:00 Paul Johnson  wrote:

 > I think a bigger situation is that I don't see how this could
 possibly be ADA compliant:
 > How does a blind person pass?

 We could add audio challenges - but that's not needed since the context
 and target sites where ReMAPTCHA is designed for, are geospatial websites
 and graphic editors.

>>>
>>> I think there would need to be audio challenges. There are projects for
>>> helping make OSM accessible to people who are vision impaired, this
>>> includes information on the OSM wiki.
>>>

 -S.

>

 2014-04-27 21:08 GMT+02:00 Paul Johnson :


> On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 8:21 AM, moltonel 3x Combo  > wrote:
>
>> I'm worried about bots still having a very high chance of sucess. With
>> two fairly-legible words in the image and a chalenge asking me to
>> write either one of the words or both, a bot still has 33% chance of
>> success if answering randomly, wich is high enough that bot authors
>> won't even bother trying to smartly interpret the map.
>>
>
> I think a bigger situation is that I don't see how this could possibly
> be ADA compliant:  How does a blind person pass?
>


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>>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] ReMAPTCHA Demo BETA 0.2 online! (Was: Hate captchas!!!!)

[Tim Waters]

I think this is wonderful, and can only see this getting better, bravo!
 It's one of those features that we all seem to end up talking about when
meeting face to face so it's good to see an attempt at it!

There was a bit of a learning curve it seems, as I added the wrong thing a
couple of times and it said it passed  - which I guess that's because of
the low samples so far?
Before I saw the aerial imagery button I assumed I was answering what was
on the map - is there a join on the map (yes: two words) or is the red line
going over a gap in the map (one word). But then I saw the imagery and then
the task changed to be both that task and tempering it with my
interpretation of the imagery, which made more sense when thinking about
the use to improve the data quality.  Perhaps making it switch between the
map and imagery ever second could help, although perhaps as it becomes more
familiar it may not be necessary.

Curious to hear your plans for the results of this for the future

cheers,

Tim




On 28 March 2014 14:10, Stefan Keller  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> The ReMAPTCHA Demo BETA 0.2 finally is ready to be tested:
> http://remaptcha.herokuapp.com/
>
> Please note that perfomance is slow (so hover over satellite icon taks
> seconds), and that the data is restricted to Switzerland since that's the
> imagery data I needed (if anyone knows freely accessible aerial/satellite
> imagery of similar quality I'm interested).
>
> I'm open for hints and enhancement requests (excuse me that I can't answer
> then all).
>
> --S.
>
>
> 2014-03-21 16:59 GMT+01:00 Philip Barnes :
>
>> On Fri, 2014-03-21 at 14:22 +0100, Richard Z. wrote:
>> > On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 07:17:26AM +0100, Stefan Keller wrote:
>> > > Hi Richard, hi Simon
>> > >
>> > > At 2014-03-14 16:19 GMT+01:00 Simon Poole wrote
>> > > > > At 14.03.2014 16:06, schrieb Richard Z.:
>> > > > > is there really no way to avoid those horrible captchas whenever
>> I add
>> > > > > a link to a JOSM bug ticket or another friendly website to the
>> wiki??
>> > > ...
>> > > > What I saw on Tuesday seem to indicate that ReMAPTCHA (Stefan?) is
>> > > > nearly here. As the name says it is map related.
>> > > >
>> > > > Unluckily it is still a pain to use if you have problems with your
>> > > > eyesight, but at least you are not working for google at the same
>> time.
>> > >
>> > > Yes, that's right, we are working hard to release a map related
>> > > ReCaptcha, I called ReMAPTCHA.
>> > > I will present it at GI_Forum Symposium in Salzburg in July 1-4 2014.
>> > > I really hope to have a beta release ready next week!
>> >
>> > thanks. Even though I have no problems with my eyes I still find it
>> > frequently difficult to recognise the distorted letters and have to
>> > reload a few times.
>> >
>> > A working and maintained whitelist would be really good in addition
>> > to any captcha improvememnts...
>>
>> I find the same problems, I have no eyesight issues but often have to
>> have several reloads, or guesses before I get them right. If I don't
>> need to get passed them I will tend to not bother and go somewhere else.
>>
>> I have often wondered if these evil things are legal under the
>> Disability Discrimination Act (UK), I suppose the audio option gets many
>> sites around this. Anything that relies only on good eyesight, without
>> an audio alternative, should not be considered as it will almost
>> certainly break the DDA.
>>
>> A google search for "disability discrimination act captcha" brings up
>> some interesting stuff.
>>
>> This one for instance
>> http://www.lawontheweb.co.uk/Web_and_Internet_Law/Web_Accessibility_Law
>>
>> Phil (trigpoint)
>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] gittip.com

[Tim Waters]

I think this is great, many thanks!

I particularly like the option to just log in to another site via
OpenStreetMap OAuth.

Tim


On 9 January 2014 10:09, Simó Albert i Beltran  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am proud to announce that now you can use your
> https://openstreetmap.org user to receive and make donations with
> https://gittip.com
>
> For example, you can make me a donation via https://gittip.com/sim6 to
> thank for this new feature. ;-)
>
> I hope you enjoy it.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] New layout

[Tim Waters]

This looks like the best place for this, but I think (and forgive me if I
can't find it - I'm a bit blind) but I think that there is not even a link
to the main OSM Blog from anywhere on the osm.org homepage or sub pages!

http://blog.openstreetmap.org
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Re: [OSM-talk] Explanation of crowd sourcing?

[Tim Waters]

On 16 March 2013 00:59, Dave F.  wrote:
> Hi
>
> I wanted to send a link to people who'd never heard of OSM that explains the
> basics of what it is & entails, but I couldn't find a page with a clear,
> simple explanation of what crowd sourcing is & that they can contribute .

You could have a look at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commons-based_peer_production which
applies to OSM - and which I think also describes this type of
crowdsourcing.

As crowdsourcing is sometimes thought of by internet capitalists as
getting stuff that would cost money done for free by volunteers, I
always try to tell people that: "crowdsourcing is not getting people
to do your work for you, but rather changing your work so that people
can participate and collaborate together with it"

Cheers,

Tim

>

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Re: [OSM-talk] [HOT] Problem with an Etrex 20

[Tim Waters]

On 20 November 2012 00:03, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:
> Has anyone compared the etrex20 to the gpsmap 60Csx regarding
> positional accuracy? Recently got strange problems on my 60Csx (can
> turn it on, but when turned off it won't switch on again unless I
> remove the batteries for a second, and I suspect it also continues to
> consume electricity while "turned off". Another issue which appeared
> at the same time: when I switch it on, "show on road" is always turned
> on which is not suitable for OSM track recording, and I think to
> recall that before this setting was "remembered" by the device).
>
> I fear it will break completely the next time so was looking for a new
> device and spotted the etrex 20. Would you recommend it for track
> recording?

It works nicely for me. It appears to remember the setting for "show
on road" etc. And the battery life is wonderful - it can also take the
standard AA batteries, which are widely available. I'm not sure about
accuracy, but it improved when I turned it on to use the GLOSNASS.
Before that, it was a bit inaccurate when I carried it in my pocket.

Cheers,

Tim



> cheers,
> Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] [HOT] Problem with an Etrex 20

[Tim Waters]

Hello,

I have a new etrex20 also.

On 18 November 2012 03:02, Banick, Robert  wrote:
> Hi Sebastian,
>
> It certainly sounds like your USB Controller is dead, but here's a thought:
> Garmins can be finicky about the cables they're used with. Are you using the
> USB cable that came with the Etrex 20? If not then it might not recognize
> the device when plugged in.

The supplied cable is a small one, about 1ft long, if that helps.
Otherwise, I would also recommend accessing the SD card directly.
I experienced some issues with the SD card, in that the fitting /
cradle for it was a bit loose and often became open when I changed the
batteries, which lead to the SD card not working - however, this
shouldnt affect the USB.

Regards,

Tim

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Re: [OSM-talk] POI Viewer in distance

[Tim Waters]

Hello,

On 14 November 2012 18:35, Frans Thamura  wrote:
> hi all
>
> we develop a POI VIewer on Leaftlet, with distance around 300 POI around 10
> km.
>
> the engine develop using hibernate with Lucense, Hibernate SEarch..
> www.hibernate.org
>
> this search is the search engine which power the Hadoop
> http://hadoop.apache.org
>
> please test the apps..
> http://bantusekolahku.kemdikbud.go.id/module/eduunit
>
> you can drag the map, and see how the POI changing based on the distance

Nice, search request seems very fast - is it open source, or is the
code available online?  Did you have to do anything special for
spatial searches with Lucense, Hibernate SEarch?


Cheers,

Tim

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Re: [OSM-talk] Map and Programm for Offline

[Tim Teulings]

Hello!


i search a programm which can see offline the maps and can calculate a route
on my netbook. I use Gentoo Linux. I have installed navit, but the routing
only with GPS Connectivity.



Know someone the programm Geologger for Symbian? Which maps i can use with
it. I need Germany, French, Spain (best as europe all together) and North
Africa.


libosmscout is a library that offer such features (offline map drawing 
and offline routing calculation). There are demo applications, but no 
ready to use applications. Depending on your (not specified in detail) 
requirements this is what you want...or not.


--
Gruß...
   Tim

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Re: [OSM-talk] Helping mappers feel comfortable about their contributions / quality control

[Tim Waters]

I also think that a voluntary opt-in review system would work - and only
really needs someone to write one, and a JOSM plugin, and a Potlatch 2
patch. It's on my list of things to do, but I doubt I will ever get around
to doing it. But that's all that needs happen by someone - do-ocracy etc...

In terms of what's in it for the user - the reviewer sees newbies edits in
their area of interest - they can help maintain the area, and the newbie, of
course would get valuable feedback.

lots of love,

chippy.


On 26 September 2011 21:26, Gregory  wrote:

> I add a source tag to a lot of my changesets now. The OSM site these days
> makes it very easy to click back and forth between  changesets and objects.
>
> I gave a talk/demo recently on how to edit OSM. I started by introducing
> myself and then saying "right, we are now friends. Once you've made an edit,
> feel free to contact me in the ways mentioned and I will happily check your
> edit/data works and there aren't any obvious mistakes."
> I'm aware that really helps people. It's why a lot of people become OSM'ers
> after going to a mapping party/event. And I think the teacher inviting
> communication with them is the way to do it. At my first mapping party I
> only learnt how to survey, but it helped just knowing there were real people
> I could contact.
>
> The other thing is that I watch my area (through the OWL viewer/rss feed)
> for edits, especially if they are new users. I try to contact all of them
> with a friendly & local message, sometimes offering them advise on what
> additional tags they could have used.
>
>
> On 20 September 2011 17:50, John Sturdy  wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 3:47 PM, Mike N  wrote:
>> >
>> >  Even today, I would find it confusing to edit a group of objects which
>> have
>> > source tags - it would be more intuitive to put the source in the
>> changeset,
>>
>> That makes sense to me --- surely most changes in a changeset will
>> have the same source.  Perhaps it could cascade / inherit, so that a
>> "source" attached to an individual object will override the "source"
>> of the changeset.
>>
>> __John
>>
>> ___
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>
>
>
> --
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> o...@livingwithdragons.com
> http://www.livingwithdragons.com
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] [HOT] Fw: Disaster Preparedness Project

[Tim McNamara]

Hi all,

Lots of time was spent in late Feburary & early March in NZ to produce
printable maps from OSM/Ushahidi for Christchurch residents without power.
It would be great to recycle this energy.

Tim McNamara
Professional \\  paperlessprojects.com
Personal \\  @timClicks <http://twitter.com/timClicks>  |  timmcnamara.co.nz



On 7 June 2011 10:03, Mikel Maron  wrote:

> Folks, what did we have in place to produce map books?
>
> Can Mapsomatic easily be modified for different formats/scales?
>
> http://www.safety-maps.org/ was a recent project to do something similar.
> I know the developers would be interested to hear more ideas how to make it
> useful.
>
> == Mikel Maron ==
> +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
>
>
> - Forwarded Message 
> *From:* Richard Weait 
> *To:* Samuel Mandell 
> *Cc:* talk@openstreetmap.org
> *Sent:* Mon, June 6, 2011 4:16:08 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk] Disaster Preparedness Project
>
> On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 8:12 PM, Samuel Mandell 
> wrote:
> > I'm designing a project whose goal is to prepare folks in my community
> for
> > disasters. An essential part of any disaster kit are maps of the local
> area
> > so that when electricity has gone out people can still navigate to
> specific
> > areas of the city (for instance to get supplies or medical help).
> > OpenStreetMap has comprehensive map data for my area (the San Francisco
> Bay
> > Area) and I'd like to use the mapping data to create maps for the various
> > cities to hand-out to residents. Since I'd need detailed (1:4800) of an
> > entire city I haven't been able to use the export tool since it seems to
> > have some built in limits to how large of an image it will generate
> (which
> > makes sense). For Mountain View, CA the image size we'd want to generate
> is
> > around 9409 x 11310 with a 1:4800 scale, in other words, very large. We
> > would then cut this into smaller squares and print it out in a booklet
> with
> > attribution to OpenStreetMap for the data and visuals.
> > What's the best way for us to generate these detailed maps of the various
> > cities?
>
> Well that sounds awesome.
>
> You might try downloading an extract of OSM data for that area.  You
> should be able to find an extract that deals with California, or the
> US West.  That way you don't have to deal with an entire planet full
> of data.  Then use Mapnik or one of the other rendering tools to
> generate your map.  You'll likely want to adjust the style sheet to
> make it just right for emergency awareness.
>
> There is a company in SF area experienced in printing high resolution
> maps from OSM data. Perhaps they'll do it for you for free since it is
> such a worthy project?
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM server on a (Ubuntu) VM?

[Tim Waters]

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Rails_port  will help with
installing the main application.
There are, of course, more pages on the wiki which can help, some of
which are linked to from that page.

Tim


On 21 December 2010 00:12, Arlindo Pereira
 wrote:
> Hi there,
> I'm planning to build with OpenStreetMap some historic, out-of-copyright
> maps (such as [1] and [2]). They would feature many things (such as streets,
> mountains and beaches) that do not exist anymore. AFAIK, this kind of data
> is not supposed to live on the main OSM server.
> So, I'd like to ask: what is the easiest way to build a OSM server? I'm
> thinking about running the database and mapnik on a virtual machine
> (preferably Ubuntu Server, since I already use Ubuntu on desktop), and
> upload only the tiles and OpenLayers to a regular Apache server. A
> copy-and-paste sequence of apt-gets would be perfect - I couldn't find it on
> the wiki.
> My idea is to create a page similar to [3], being the left side the
> historical map and on the right the current OSM map.
> Thanks a lot,
> Arlindo "Nighto" Pereira
> 1: http://www.bondesrio.com/fotos/mapas/mapa_linhas_1878.jpg
> 2: http://www.bondesrio.com/fotos/mapas/mapa_linhas_1907.jpg
> 3: http://tools.geofabrik.de/mc/
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Re: [OSM-talk] Released: OpenMaps for iOS v4.0. An idea how to increase OSM awareness.

[Tim Waters]

Hi,

Zsombor, thanks for the reply, and clarifying about chickens.

When/how does OSM get edited with the app by the user? (Sorry, not got
an Iphone so cannot see for myself :)

Earlier in the thread you said
"Every user that makes an edit to OSM via the app does it with their
own OSM user."

Cheers,

Tim

> Tim:
>
> 1) Let me clarify. When users send out a checkin, comment, share tweet
> about an _existing_ OSM place that tweet goes to Twitter.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Released: OpenMaps for iOS v4.0. An idea how to increase OSM awareness.

[Tim Waters]

Cool idea - I can see how it can help the OSM project.

There are a couple of things.

1) What to do about users adding the same point, but differently. For
example user A goes "I'm at McDonalds, it's a cafe", user B goes I'm
at Mac Donalds, it's a fast food restaurant" for the same location.
What one or two of the most popular chicken apps do is show these
points one after the other. What the OSM database could see is that
there's multiple points for the same thing.

2) The popular chicken apps are games. This is why they are popular.
You gotta add in game mechanics for it to work, coupons, badges and
other "fun" stuff. Without the gameplay, it becomes much like existing
services like http://mapme.at - personal location story applications.

I think the idea is great and potentially disruptive, but would need
to be promoted to the mass market, not just loveable geo freetards :)


Tim



On 16 December 2010 20:46, Zsombor Szabó  wrote:
> Today we released OpenMaps version 4.0 in Apple's App Store. It is a free
> map app based on OpenStreetMap and we believe it is the best. It is as slick
> as the built-in (Google) Maps application and if you ever used Maps on an
> iPhone you know that it's not a little thing to say.
> But this is not the reason why I am writing this email.
> I believe in OpenStreetMap. I really do. I want it to be the de facto map
> that everyone uses and I think most of you feel the same way. I also believe
> that OpenStreetMap is not getting the deserved user attention that we want
> it to receive. I think I have a solution how we could expose it to more
> users with OpenMaps for iOS.
> How? Just launch OpenMaps, find your favorite bar/pub/restaurant/etc. on the
> map, tap on it (yes, in contrast with Maps you can tap on POI icons in
> OpenMaps without needing to search for them; innovative, isn't it?) and send
> out a checkin tweet. A typical tweet will look like this:
> http://twitter.com/#!/zssz/statuses/7396822796476416
> Isn't Foursquare, Gowalla and now Facebook doing something similar you ask?
> Exactly. And look how popular they are. I believe that tweeting (checking
> in, commenting, etc.) about OSM POIs is a great way to increase OSM
> awareness. And it is a great way to share places with friends as when users
> tap on an openmaps:// link they will be shown the respective OSM element in
> OpenMaps (if they have the app installed on their device). They can even
> follow the recent Twitter conversation about an OSM element within the app.
> So if they want to share with the public that they serve amazing coffee at
> openmaps://n/957085286 then they can do that easily.
> I am enthusiastic about this and encourage you to adopt this because I
> really think it is a great idea to increase OSM awareness. Maybe it will
> catch on, maybe not. It all depends on the critical mass.
> Best regards,
> Zsombor Szabo, CEO
> IZE, Ltd.
> P.S. for OSM Announce list members: If you have questions or have feedback,
> then reply on the (cced) OSM talk list.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Category: Users who contribute their data in Public domain

[Tim Waters]

On 19 December 2010 03:28, Sam Vekemans  wrote:
> Hi all,
> I'm just wondering how many users out their still need to update their
> wiki.openstreetmap.org page wit their licence preference.

Well, I for one do, but like many users, don't do wiki's much. Is
there a how-to page to guide such users to add interesting and
important badges(?) of choice to their user page?

Cheers,

Tim

> It would be good that those who want their edits to be in the public
> domain be noticable, otherwise, its very difficult to figure out what
> your intentions are when mapping (as well as editing the wiki for that
> matter).
>
>
> Thanks,
> Sam
>
>
> --
> Twitter: @Acrosscanada
> Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/
> http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans
> Skype: samvekemans
> IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room)
> @Acrosscanadatrails
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Massive import of airports

[Tim Waters]

On 17 December 2010 11:49, Alan Mintz  wrote:
>
> From http://www.ourairports.com/about.html , under Credits:
>
> "Google Maps for providing a free, high-quality mapping API and geocoder"

But it also says:

"Marc Wick at Geonames for permission to run thousands of batch
queries against his geolocation APIs;"


>
> --
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>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Historical Data in OSM database

[Tim Waters]

We (EntropyFree) made a tentative start towards this a year or two ago at
OpenHistoricalMap.org - but although the resources needed for it didn't come
through, there was an incredible amount of interest in it. Essentially it
was planned to be a customised SM server instance with some backend
additions to accommodate changes of objects over time.

Another issue that was brought up was rendering of the maps - how do we
render historical data? By year range? By decade? How about if you wanted to
make a Georgian Map?  Do you use contemporary data where old data doesn't
exist? Maybe rendering to static tiles is the wrong approach?

Laurence gave the example of Crystal Palace, which moved position. But what
about a) buildings which do not change geometry, but change attributes,
name, use or ownership several times (Offices -> bank -> wine bar ->
nighclub) and b) Buildings which change shape over time, whilst retaining
the same attributes (Church -> church with tower -> church with spire).



On 9 November 2010 11:03, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

>
> No, it would be perfectly ok for someone to create a "history OSM" server
> that others interested in the same could then use, maybe even as a testbed
> while developing new tools that can actually handle such data.


+1

>
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Re: [OSM-talk] New: A black&white base layer

[Tim Waters]

On 3 November 2010 14:37, Donald Campbell II wrote:

> Yeah that Glittermap is great stuff I gotta thank you for freeing my mind
> of the constraints of stuffy boring mapping.
>
> Now I'm thinking of cartoon style maps with text effect scripts run on
> Country/City/Town names...
>
> Old fashioned piratey maps with dragons in the water...
>
> Flippin' SpongeBob maps!!
>
> This is really a great way to add more fun to the maps and get more people
> excited about it especially graphic artist types who want to have a wide
> range of work in their portfolios.
>
> It would also be great for advertisements and theme park type guides.
>
> There's of course the isometric map, the 8-bit map styles, etc...
>
> Has anyone already made a wacky OSM styles page?  I know there's the
> featured images but things can get lost in the archive there.
>
>
It's around this time of year that we start thinking about funny Christmas
styled maps, with snowmen, and frosty trees...
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenSantaMap

:-)
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Re: [OSM-talk] Adding the full name of a business

[Tim McNamara]

On 29 September 2010 07:31, Niklas Cholmkvist  wrote:

> I'm afraid that privacy laws will be breached if I put in the name tag
> like this: name="John Johnson - Dentist" or name="Jeff Jefferson -
> Otolaryngologist". I once did that, and my friend was so alarmed when
> she saw my contributions that she told me to remove them, fearing I
> would get in legal trouble later. I told her that maybe I can ask each
> doctor before putting their name on the map, if it is ok with them.
>

Niklas,

Privacy laws differ by country, and are generally known to be more strict in
Europe than other places. However, I see this as business rather than
personal information.

Also, if you want to create a searchable system of medical practitioners,
you may consider a system like Freebase.com. It is more suited for that kind
of application.

Tim
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Re: [OSM-talk] Culvert and average contributor

[Tim McNamara]

This is how I understand "culvert", from New Zealand. Although I've rarely
heard "sewer tunnel", it's just "sewer".

Tim.

On 27 August 2010 06:29, John F. Eldredge  wrote:

> The term "culvert" is also standard usage in American English.  "Tunnel" is
> generally used to mean an underground passageway large enough for a person
> to walk through, if not larger.  Also, the default assumption is that a
> tunnel is not intended for drainage, unless there is a longer phrase such as
> "sewer tunnel".  A "culvert" refers to a tube or pipe under a roadway or
> other raised area, meant to carry surface-water runoff.  Some are large
> enough to walk through, but most aren't.  Usually they extend only for a
> short distance, such as the width of a roadway.  "Covered" does not indicate
> the size of a passageway, nor does it indicate the intended purpose of the
> passageway.
>
> ---Original Email---
> Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] Culvert and average contributor
> From  :mailto:rich...@systemed.net
> Date  :Thu Aug 26 13:10:13 America/Chicago 2010
>
>
>
> Pieren wrote:
> > Question 1 : is "culvert" commonly used by native english speakers ?
> > Is that a term mainly used by civil engineers ?
>
> It's in very frequent use among boaters on the British canals, largely
> because the ruddy things keep collapsing and taking the canal with them.
>
> cheers
> Richard
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Culvert-and-average-contributor-tp5466555p5466615.html
> Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Enough is enough: disinfecting OSM from poisonous people

[Tim McNamara]

On 12 August 2010 00:26, Dave F.  wrote:
>
> But Steve C. is going on about banning people purely for posting more
> messages than others, *even* if they're are on topic. This is unacceptable.
>

No, it's not. If someone is being really difficult, then they distract
everybody. The project stalls as people squabble and become emotionally
drained. It's best for the project if there are mechanisms for place to deal
with that.

Tim.
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap.js redistribution

[Tim McNamara]

On 10 August 2010 10:10, arno  wrote:

> Hi,
> I'd like to include OpenStreetMap.js file in my website, whose sources are
> published under agpl:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/openlayers/OpenStreetMap.js
>
> I really dislike the idea of using javascript hosted on another server, so
> I
> won't link to hosted version. Then, I'd like to known if I can include the
> file in my website or no. I did not find anything about script reuse in the
> script or in "the rails port" sources.
>

Arno -

You are able to include the file in your website according to the terms of
the licence. The AGPL is a strong copyleft licence. You can read about its
terms at Wikipedia [1].

Tim

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affero_General_Public_License
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Re: [OSM-talk] Question on filtering data

[Tim McNamara]

Liz -

Do you have experience with computer programming? You will need to know how
to process XML. I don't have too much experience with the OSM API, but this
should be fairly straightforward.

I would break the task up into something like this:

Download details for all of the changesets of that user, extract id numbers
[1]
Split the 600km2 into bounding boxes by calculating what the API allows as
[2]
For each bounding box:
  download features [3]
  for each feature, check feature id against user's changes
  if that feature is a match, add it to a list of matches

[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/API_v0.6#Methods_for_User_Data
[2]
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/API_v0.6#Capabilities:_GET_.2Fapi.2Fcapabilities
[3]
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/API_v0.6#Retrieving_map_data_by_bounding_box:_GET_.2Fapi.2F0.6.2Fmap

On 14 July 2010 22:22, Liz  wrote:

> I would like to filter OSM data in a large area which is about 600km square
> and find what has been surveyed by a particular mapper.
>
> If data has been added to this later eg a maxspeed tag by another mapper, I
> do
> not want this data excluded.
>
> I accept that this may involve a series of searches.
>
> Can anyone assist me?
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] maori/english search oddities for nz towns

[Tim McNamara]

On 8 July 2010 14:29, Robin Paulson  wrote:

> On 8 July 2010 00:29, Brian Quinion 
> wrote:
> > 2 Part answer:
> >
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/556706
> >
> > Aotearoa is used because it is the default name if it can't find a
> > language match.
>
> ah, interesting. that should probably be name:mi
>
> well spotted, i'll change that


"Aotearoa New Zealand" would be a better name, at least in en-NZ [1]. It's a
much more politically correct term than "New Zealand"; we're not Dutch. "New
Zealand" is probably a good global default though.

Tim

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand#Etymology
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Re: [OSM-talk] WolframAlpha uses OpenStreetMap data

[Tim McNamara]

On 17 June 2010 10:00, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Tim McNamara wrote:
>
>> The whole thing creates a single creative work.
>>
>
> The term "single creative work" is not used in the CC license text.

Displaying OSM content and other content side-by-side does not form a "work
> derived from OpenStreetMap" according to community consensus.


Sorry if I've neglected to look into this issue in more detail. May I ask,
which community consensus are you referring to? OSM or CC? My understanding
was the intention behind a share-alike clause is to compel people using the
work to release their works under similar licences. If the OSM community
doesn't really care about forcing licencing on others, then I actually think
we have reached the same conclusion. See my notes in the last paragraph.


> You need to do more than just display them side by side if you wanted to
> trigger the share-alike clause. (Compare: Just because a music CD contains
> one track licensed CC-BY-SA, this doesn't mean the whole CD has to be, even
> if the CC-BY-SA licensed track has been selected to match the theme. The
> whole has not been "built upon" the part.)


I don't think this is the correct analogy to draw. I feel that a result of a
search query is more like a single track on a CD. Elements within the result
query (or the track) can be divided further, but the whole result/track is a
single work. If you include another artist's work inside that track, I
assume that would trigger the share-alike clause.

The real thrust of my argument was that if widespread adoption of OSM &
attributation is the goal of the community, then OSM should reduce its
licencing requirements. Shifting to CC-BY would align more strongly with the
comments I've seen in this thread.

Tim
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Re: [OSM-talk] WolframAlpha uses OpenStreetMap data

[Tim McNamara]

On 17 June 2010 03:47, Frank Sautter  wrote:

> WolframAlpha uses OpenStreetMap data
> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Berlin
>
> Is the license attribution they are using OK?
>
>
I think it depends on whether you can seperate the map that Wolfram|Alpha
have created from the rest of their content. If the map is seen
as separate from the rest of the page, then I think it's probably fine.
However, I think that it's a stretch to say that the single map component is
seperate from the rest of the result. The whole thing creates a single
creative work. Therefore, I think that every result that uses an OSM map
should be licenced under CC-BY-SA or similar:

*"Share Alike* — If you alter, transform, or build upon this work, you may
distribute the resulting work only under the same or similar license to this
one" [1]

However, from the sounds of this discussion, the OSM community seems to
really be caring about the attribution requirement. If so, I think the group
should reduce its licencing requirements to CC-BY. This would reflect the
intention of what people are after in practice.

-Tim


[1] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/
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Re: [OSM-talk] Custom rendering of a small map

[Tim Teulings]

Hello!
> I'm interested in this, too, because I want to draw OSM data in my car 
> computer as a sort of GPS satnav/realtime editor.

See libosmscout.sf.net. It is designed as a library for offline map 
drawing (however not editing) in mobile devices. It is a renderer (and 
router) optimized for minimum data size and speed.
> Dane (of Mapnik fame) suggested I use Mapnik with the OSM data plugin. 
> That cuts out the majority of the setup time due to PostGIS install 
> and import of OSM data.

Since libosmsocut uses cairo internally and cairo has SVG export this 
would should work with it, too. But I assume it needs some more time to 
get the required drawing quality to be usable for generating printable 
maps (but it is already worth a try :-)).

-- 
Gruß...
Tim


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Re: [OSM-talk] Post-SOTM idea: Volcanoes of Olot

[Tim Waters]

I am also thinking of staying a couple of days after SOTM, was
thinking about Barcelona mainly, but Orlot looks looks interesting
too.

However, I see the words, "volcanic landscape" and "bike rental" and
match these with Spain in July and think that I'd rather be on a bus
than cycling up a volcano for half a day in reasonably warm weather :)

Cycling down the mountain is another matter!

Are there any nearby seaside resort towns that need mapping?

Tim




2010/5/27 Iván Sánchez Ortega :
> El día Thursday 27 May 2010 11:13:42, Nick Whitelegg dijo:
>> [...] one area which looks interesting is the volcanic landscape round Olot.
>> It's only an hour and a half on the bus from Girona
>
> Bus?
>
> May I remind you that there are bike rental companies, and that the
> Girona-Olot cycleway is not mapped yet?
>
> --
> Iván Sánchez Ortega 
>
> Un ordenador no es una televisión ni un microondas: es una herramienta
> compleja.
>
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[OSM-talk] SahanaCamp and Workshop - July 2010 - Delhi, India

[Tim McNamara]

Hi all,

If there are any OSM members in the sub-continent, I recommend this event.
Sahana makes heavy use of Open Street Maps, and GIS systems in general. It's
a great framework for developing applications in the humanitarian & disaster
response domains. I'm sure many of the participants would be interested in
collaborating.

My best,

Tim McNamara

-- Forwarded message --
From: Michael Howden 
Date: Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 6:20 PM
Subject: [Sahana-user] SahanaCamp and Workshop - July 2010 - Delhi, India
To: sahana-u...@lists.sourceforge.net, Sahana developers' list <
sahana-main...@lists.sourceforge.net>, sahana-e...@googlegroups.com


UPCOMING EVENTS:
-

SahanaCamp
2nd - 5th July 20100
For Programmers and Web Designers who are interested in building Information
Technology Solutions for Disasters and Development

Sahana Workshop "Information Technology Solutions for Disasters and
Development"
3rd July 2010
For people working for NGOs/UN/Government/Other Agencies and others
interested in Information Technology Solutions for Disasters and Development


Location:
Sarai-CSDS
29 Rajpur Road
Civil Lines
Delhi - 110054
India

Cost:
FREE

Applications:
Spaces are limited. Applications close 14th June.

Sahana Workshop:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dHkwMEs0QzZmcnQ4YlVHMFR5U1JB
ZXc6MQ<http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dHkwMEs0QzZmcnQ4YlVHMFR5U1JB%0AZXc6MQ>
SahanaCamp (includes Sahana Workshop):
http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dG9IcHJ6SlNCWG5COTFfbUVaSExW
R1E6MQ<http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dG9IcHJ6SlNCWG5COTFfbUVaSExW%0AR1E6MQ>


Sahana
---
Sahana is a Free and Open Source Disaster Management System which was
started in Sri Lanka after the 2004 Tsunami. It is a web based collaboration
tool that addresses the common coordination problems during a disaster from
finding missing people, managing aid, managing volunteers, tracking camps
effectively between Government groups, the civil society (NGOs) and the
people affected by disasters.
www.sahanafoundation.org


Details

Sahana Workshop is a one day event which will provide an introduction to how
information technology can be used to assist organisations working in
disasters and development. It will include opportunities to share
experiences and lessons learned with others who have worked in this area.
You'll get hand on experience using the Sahana Eden
(http://eden.sahanafoundation.org/) platform which was deployed in response
to the Earthquake in Haiti and includes SMS and Mapping technologies.
Finally, you'll have the opportunity to share your real world needs for
information technology solutions to provide input for the future development
of Sahana.

SahanaCamp is a four day long intensive event, for programmers and web
designers who are involved or interested in helping organizations working in
Disasters and Development. You will be introduced to programming in Python
on the Sahana Eden Rapid Application Development (RAD) platform. You will be
developing real solutions to meet real needs such as Logistics,
Organisational Management and Mapping or according to your needs. You'll be
working aside members of the core Sahana Eden development team, who will be
there to support and encourage you along. SahanaCamp would be ideal for
programmers and web designers who are developing solution for Disasters and
Development organizations.
Participants are expected to have existing programming or design skills (and
will certainly learn some new ones during the camp!).

Venue
--
Sarai is a programme of the Centre for the Study of Developing Societies,
(CSDS)  one of India's leading research institutes with a commitment to
critical and dissenting thought and a focus on critically expanding the
horizons of the discourse on development, particularly with reference to
South Asia. We are a coalition of researchers and practitioners with a
commitment towards developing a model of research-practice that is public
and creative, in which multiple voices express and render themselves in a
variety of forms.
www.sarai.net

For more information, please contact mich...@sahanafoundation.org or visit
http://wiki.sahanafoundation.org/doku.php/community:sahanacamp.

Could you please share this invitation amongst your networks and with other
who may be interested.

Regards

Michael Howden
mich...@sahanafoundation.org


--

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Re: [OSM-talk] Software goes on, brain goes off...

[Tim McNamara]

On 1 June 2010 09:23, Nakor  wrote:

>  On 5/31/2010 4:36 PM, John Smith wrote:
>
>  Her lawyers claim Google is liable because it did not warn her
> that the route would not offer a safe place for a pedestrian to walk.
>
>
>  Did Google add their notice after the fact?
>
> "*Walking directions are in beta.* Use caution – This route may be missing
> sidewalks or pedestrian paths."
>

Here's a case from NZ where something similar happened that didn't lead to
injury. Until this article was posted, Google Maps directed people through
Wellington's bus tunnel, a 1 way tunnel which barely has enough width for
buses to travel through.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3552037/Google-maps-off-course-with-walk-through-bus-tunnel

At that incident Goolge's response was:

Google spokeswoman Annie Baxter said the walking directions search function
in Google Maps was still at an experimental phase.

"We clearly advise people to use caution as routes might be missing
footpaths or pedestrian-friendly paths."

This implies that they they're undertaking a responsibility to notify people
when routes are generated. I guess if the BlackBerry version doesn't include
the disclaimer, there's an argument to say that Google didn't meet its
(self-imposed?) duty of care to the consumers.

Still, even if they breached the duty of care, the injured woman will still
need to establish that the breach was a cause of her injury.

Tim.
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Re: [OSM-talk] volcano craters in auckland - possibly out of copyright map

[Tim McNamara]

On 20 May 2010 16:57, Robin Paulson  wrote:
> i found a map on wikipedia from 1859, which i would assume makes it
> out of copyright and thus far game for copying data into osm

Fairly safe, in NZ copyright lasts until 50 years after the death of
the author. [1] You're probably even safer given that the Berne
Convention (that established copyright) was only signed in 1886.[2]

Tim

[1] 
http://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1994/0143/latest/DLM345932.html#DLM345932
[2] http://wipo.int/treaties/en/ip/berne/summary_berne.html

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Re: [OSM-talk] ANNOUNCEMENT: maxspeed map

[Tim Litwiller]

On 03/28/2010 11:44 AM, Florian Lohoff wrote:
> I never sent an announcement here so i think its time do so. I have built
> ...
> Here is the link:
>
> http://maxspeed.osm.lab.rfc822.org
>
> Please also relay to the local mailinglists.
>
> Flo
>

Very Nice!   When will it fully support mph speeds in the U.S.A ?
ie: we tag "maxspeed=65 mph" rather than "maxspeed=100" to get ~ the 
same highway speed.
in the U.S.A. the speed limit signs are a white rectangle  higher than 
they are wide
see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_speed_limits.svg
for examples.


Thanks


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Re: [OSM-talk] offer of 20m contour data

[Tim McNamara]

Robin -

I would love to get my hands on this to support emergency management
response. I'm part of the Sahana project, which provides open source
disaster planning & response tools.. you can read more about the NZ efforts
here: http://bit.ly/nz-sahana-cluster

Cheers, Tim.

On 18 March 2010 10:24, Robin Paulson  wrote:

> i've been offered contours for new zealand under a cc license. the
> precision is 20m, which i believe is higher than that of the srtm
> data.
>
> how would i go about getting these into osm? from what i can tell,
> contours are generally handled differently to other data
>
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[OSM-talk] Request for help: libosmscout

[Tim Teulings]

Hello!

I'm still looking for people interested in helping me with further 
development libosmscout (http://libosmscout.sf.net). The library 
steadily improves, but more people could simply get more work done 
faster ;-)

libosmscout is a C++ library, that implements offline map drawing and 
routing based on OSM data. It does this by import an existing *.osm file 
and generating a binary, plattform independent file based database and 
offering an high level API on top of this database.

The main target group of the library are people that are interested in 
developing applications based on OSM and that do not want to directly 
access available data using existing online APIs. Such applications of 
course also include offline navigation software but of course other, 
more specialized applications are possible.

Recent discussions with interested people however have shown that 
libosmscout has a much broader target group. Since the library consists 
of separate components for import, dataaccess, routing and map drawing, 
other usage senarios are also possible and I'm also looking for people 
that want to improve libosmscout in that direction:

* Generating stylable (paper) maps
* Using it as a small desktop local caching tile server with very light 
infrastructure requirements.
* Using it to tests and compare different routing alogrithm (that can 
share pre- and postprocessing and thus safe the developer the hassle to 
fiddle around with *.osm file format and generating a good textual 
routing description).
* Use the internal data structures and map drawing for online-data API 
based map drawing
* Statistical analysis and data test suite

libosmscout currently depends on libxml and libcairo (, but even that 
could be abstracted ;-)) and thus should work on various platforms.

If you are interested take a look at libosmscout.sf.net for further 
details (and a video) or simply contact me.

-- 
Gruß...
    Tim


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Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Google Summer of Code Projects

[Tim Waters]

Just a little bump to us that applications are open for organisations
to apply, and we have 3 days left.

http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2010/03/google-summer-of-code-applications-now.html

Tim




On 28 February 2010 19:05, Graham Jones  wrote:
> Hi There,
> It will soon be time for OpenStreetMap to apply to join the 2010 Google
> Summer of Code Programme.   This gives students the opportunity to work on
> open source projects during the summer, for which they receive some payment
> by Google.   It costs us nothing more than providing a Mentor to guide the
> student.
>
> It would be really useful if we could put together a list of potential
> student projects to get potential applicants thinking.   The projects need
> to be fairly well defined to make it easy to judge 'success', so it is good
> to have specific targets.
>
> From recent discussions on these lists I have identified the following
> possibilities so far:
>
> Develop a stand alone 'Newbie'/'Introductory'/'Lite' Editor - the priority
> is ease of use rather than functionality.
> Help with the development of Potlatch 2 (maybe to include the 'lite' editor
> functionality) - we would need to help the applicants identify specific
> targets.
> Develop a simple 'mapping tool' for mobile phones to easily collect GPX
> traces, geotagged images and geotagged audio clips.  Ideally it should be
> capable of running on both Android, J2ME and Iphones, so you can have the
> same simple application no matter what sort of phone you use.
> Improve the usability of a simple mobile phone map editing application (such
> as vespucci for android).
> Incorporation of OSM data and traffic data.
>
> I am sure there are other things that I am not familiar with too - would it
> be useful for someone to do some work on tools to process OSM data in some
> way, or are there any tasks on the OSM server itself that could be turned
> into projects?
>
> Please will you give some thought to other possibilities and either add them
> to the GSoC 2010 Wiki Page
> (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2010) or reply by
> email if you prefer.
>
> Thanks
>
> Graham.
>
>
> --
> Graham Jones
> Hartlepool, UK
> email: grahamjones...@gmail.com
>
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Are Yahoo street maps legal? (as JOSM WMS layer via desktopwms)

[Tim McNamara]

On 28 February 2010 08:56, David Earl  wrote:

> On 27/02/2010 09:31, Valent Turkovic wrote:
> > I was hoping that Yahoo has their own maps and that we could use them.
>
> Whatever the legality, I can't see the point in making a map which is
> simply a copy of someone else's. Why go to the bother - you might as
> well just use the original.
>
>
That's the freedom tax.

OSM members cannot create maps from another source that has restrictive
licencing. It will be a derivative work, thus copyright infringement. That's
why Richard Stallman created the GNU libraries from scratch. Even though
Unix existed, he duplicated the functionality of everything without looking
at the original source code that he could not be accused of copyright
violation.

Facts are free, but representations of facts are not. E.g. two companies can
create maps about the world happily. However if one uses the other's as a
base, then the second company is breaking the law.

If you just want to use maps, then taking them from Yahoo/Google/Bing is
fine. But if you want to create maps that you wish to distribute & build
upon, then you need to create them yourself (or generate them from a source
that is itself copyleft).

Others - please correct any errors :)

Tim
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[OSM-talk] Sahana Chile 2010 - Instance live & on standby

[Tim McNamara]

Hi all,

http://chile.sahanafoundation.org/ is live. We are looking forward to
serving up your maps & proving them as GPX files for field responders to
download to their GPS units.

Kind regards,

Tim McNamara
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Re: [OSM-talk] Serious consideration of "Newbie Editor"

[Tim McNamara]

On 26 February 2010 09:47, Graham Jones wrote:
>
> We could then have a nice banner on the bottom of the screen pointing to
> the descriptions of the other editors that would allow you to add or change
> geometries.
>
>
+1

I think the app should provide some form of stepping stone functionality for
more advanced tools.

For future discussion, once scope has been determined: Would it be an idea
to provide a toggle between simple mode & complex mode inside of Potlatch,
rather than build a completely new editor? Potlatch could default to simple
mode to prevent scaring off new contributors, but provide more complex
operations with one click.


> Graham.
>
>
> On 25 February 2010 20:29, Roy Wallace  wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Liz  wrote:
>> >
>> > I would suggest that Potlatch is left alone for its devotees.
>> >
>> > I'd start with the following in the design brief for the "Newbie Editor"
>> > Can add nodes, label them with default tags only (other than name).
>> > Can add ways, again default tag list only, other than name.
>> > Very limited deletion ability (no clear idea yet on how to define this).
>>
>> I suspect starting at even this level of complexity would cause
>> feature creep towards Potlatch, anyway...In particular, being able to
>> add/edit ways requires handling many complex concepts (as others have
>> brought up), like joining ways, way direction, overlapping ways, etc.
>>
>> How about an even bigger step back? If starting a new editor from
>> scratch is to be worthwhile, surely it should be a LOT more basic than
>> all other existing editors. i.e. how about only these features:
>>
>> 1) Add POI
>> User specifies:
>>  a) where it is
>>  b) what it is (choose from a single list of options)
>>  c) the name
>>
>> 2) Edit Name
>>  e.g. add or fix the name of an existing road - this should help a
>> lot with noname roads
>>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Haiti Talk List

[Tim Waters]

On 30 January 2010 14:21, Tim Waters  wrote:
> I'm getting a 404 when trying to confirm my registration to the list
> at http://lists.openstreetmap.org/confirm/talk-ht
>
> Is it just me?
>
> Tim

Just me I think.
carry on.
After 2 more tries clicking the link from the email and hitting the
confirm button on the page, it has let me subscribe.

> On 29 January 2010 23:59, Ulf Möller  wrote:
>> Jan Tappenbeck schrieb:
>>
>>> is there a link to read this in a newsreader ???
>>
>> Yes, it's already available at gmane:
>> nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.region.ht
>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Haiti Talk List

[Tim Waters]

I'm getting a 404 when trying to confirm my registration to the list
at http://lists.openstreetmap.org/confirm/talk-ht

Is it just me?

Tim

On 29 January 2010 23:59, Ulf Möller  wrote:
> Jan Tappenbeck schrieb:
>
>> is there a link to read this in a newsreader ???
>
> Yes, it's already available at gmane:
> nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gis.openstreetmap.region.ht
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Timeline animation of Haïti map evolu tion

[Tim Waters]

Great stuff! Any plans to put this on any social video sharing
websites of choice?

Tim

2010/1/24 Eric Marsden :
> Hello,
>
> I have created two video animations that illustrate the rapid
> improvement of Haïti coverage in OSM following the earthquake. One shows
> the Port au Prince region, overlaid on JAXA satellite imagery :
>
>  http://eric.marsden.free.fr/tmp/osm-port-au-prince.mp4
>
> and the other the entire island of Hispanolia
>
>  http://eric.marsden.free.fr/tmp/osm-haiti.mp4
>
> I think these illustrate the rapid worldwide mobilization of volunteer
> mappers to assist humanitarian workers on the ground.
>
>
>
> The videos are based on the timestamps in GeoFabrik's 20100123 Haïti
> extract (an element that has been touched several times will only appear
> the last time it was modified). They are generated with a small Common
> Lisp program available at
>
>  http://eric.marsden.free.fr/tmp/osm-history.tgz
>
> --
> Eric Marsden
>
>
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[OSM-talk] Feed of locations Internally Displaced Persons

[Tim McNamara]

Hello all,

Sahana's Haiti 2010 Disaster Response Portal has recently added its camp
registry to its development site. We'll be aiming to created a unified
repository of the status of camps within Haiti. This data will be made
freely available through several web services.

Does anyone have a GeoRSS or similar layer with feeds of camps for IDPs?

Tim McNamara
Sahana Disaster Management System
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Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: cannot load flickr photo kml in openlayers

[Tim Waters]

First things is when doing things with javascript is to use a debugger
tool. Firebug firefox extension is great, and the built in developer
console in Chrome/Chromium will also give you an advantage.

using these we can see that theres an error: Cannot set property
'innerHTML' of null at line 151
it's looking for a div with the id of "output" so stick  in, or delete line 151 thats giving the error.

hope that helps.

tim

2010/1/11 maning sambale :
> Hi,
>
> Forwarding this openlayers inquiry to OSM list.  Perhaps others can
> help this mapper (me) who know very little javascript code.
>
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: maning sambale 
> Date: Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:18 AM
> Subject: cannot load flickr photo kml in openlayers
> To: OpenLayers-Users 
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I am assisting a webmapping app for a walking expedition to raise
> funds for cancer victims.
> www.stepjuan.com/
>
> The map shows the route and current location of the expedition.
> http://www.stepjuan.com/map.html
>
> I am planning to add geocoded photos from a flickr set I created.
> Following this map:
> http://tlatet.blogspot.com/2010/01/flickr-set-on-osm-cycle-map.html
>
> I simply copy pasted his javascript into my existing code:
> http://stepjuan.com/routes/webmap_photos.html
>
> But it doesn't work.  Right-click "View source" to see the javascript.
>
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> --
>
>
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> --
>
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[OSM-talk] Tiger data and county lines

[Tim Litwiller]

I've been noticing that in the US tiger data in central Kansas - ways do 
not cross county lines. Each county has their own county line road and 
the roads from that county connect to it - but it overlays the next 
countys county line road. Is there some automated way to select both 
ways and merge them into one way with the roads from each direction 
connecting also?



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[OSM-talk] routing - US interstate type junction -Wichita, KS

[Tim Litwiller]

There is a junction on the north end of Wichita KS, that does not route 
correctly in the southbound direction.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.7627&lon=-97.3218&zoom=14&layers=B000FTF

I downloaded the openstreetmap for Garmin from na1400.info and noticed 
it there so I tried the same navigation from 
http://www.yournavigation.org/ and it did the same thing. I added 
bridges to this intersections map a few days ago - but the na1400.info 
data doesn't have my changes yet. I have looked at the tags on the 
sections of the road and don't see anything unusual.

cloudmade.com seems to have an older version of the data and on there 
the routing works.

I would like to fix this and if I messed it up I apologize and want to 
learn from this so it doesn't happen again.
If someone has time to find the problem - please let me know what it is.

Thanks



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[OSM-talk] feasibility - different use of openstreetmap

[Tim Litwiller]

Introduction:
For my work we have a need for mapping "fields" agricultural sections of 
land for growing crops. We already put the legal description of the land 
in the our invoicing \ work order system and other information about the 
field, but we need a way to quickly print a high quality aerial photo of 
the section that the land is in and the outline of the field.  I only 
need to cover 10 counties in central Kansas at least to start with, and 
I can get the free US Gov aerial photography and the field outlines from 
USDA.

Question:
Would it be possible/feasible to setup a map server like openstreetmap 
that shows all the street/roads along with my aerial photography and 
field outlines, and then make a search for the field by customer, by 
legal description or by field name?


If this in not the correct group for this, then what group would I ask 
this question? I realize the your system is about street and I want to 
misuse it for land areas, but it is such a nice system and looks like a 
great framework to start building what I need from.


Thanks

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Re: [OSM-talk] Twitter bots

[Tim Waters (chippy)]

Hi Alexander,

Nice to see it popular, however...

a few of us like to use a twitter search for "openstreetmap" to see
what humans are saying but recently pretty much all of the tweets we
receive for this search are from these bots.

Would it be possible to reduce the level of spam - one example could
be for the bots to use the shorturl (osm.org) or other short url
service instead of the full openstreetmap.org url?

Cheers,

Tim

2009/8/20 Alexander Klink :
> Hi everyone,
>
> This weekend, I hacked together a quick twitter bot,
> which now tweets all changesets in a certain are (in
> my case, Darmstadt, Germany) - see http://twitter.com/osm_darmstadt
>
> I've found it quite useful thus far, on the one hand I write
> better changeset comments, because I know they will be on
> Twitter, on the other hand, I see what happens in my community.
>
> If you want to run a similar bot, you can find the source
> at http://git.alech.de/?p=osm_twitter_bots.git
>
> Alternatively, I can add a bit of code to run more than
> one bot at a time and run a few of them for you (until I
> hit the Twitter API limits), I'd only need a name and a
> bounding box for that.
>
> Cheers,
>  Alex
>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQFKjO3arNikioikZhERAi5AAKC5KuRFHQ5uh8ylmIAVIFinU8T8iACg03az
> 2ueMj6UmU+N7HIlPyKMlnZI=
> =T0Ab
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
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[OSM-talk] Geohack for OSM

[Tim Alder]

Hello,
I added some lines to the wikipedia-geohack script. (You see the geohack 
normally if you click on a coordinate in a Wikipedia article.)
So now the script shows also links to different OSM-maps for a position 
if it get the parameter project=osm.
http://stable.toolserver.org/geohack/geohack.php?project=osm&pagename=Alberthafen%20Dresden-Friedrichstadt&language=en¶ms=51.0639_N_13.7075_E_region:DE-SN_type:landmark
 


The new osm-geohack is in the moment integrated in the standard german 
and english geohack page, look at openstreetmap -> more maps.  Please 
add this link in other languages, if you can.
As result you need 3 simple mouse clicks from a wikipedia article with a 
coordinate to the map you want.

Please feel free to add maps or make a better descriptions:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:GeoTemplate-en


Greetings Kolossos

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Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch 1.1

[Tim Waters (chippy)]

2009/7/11 Richard Fairhurst :

> == Photo-mapping ==
>
> You can now do photo-mapping with Potlatch. Just click the camera icon, and
> it’ll talk to your favourite online photo storage service to get pictures.
>
> By default it uses openstreetphoto.org - so many thanks to Stefan de Konink
> (you may want to print that sentence out and frame it) for that. OSP’s
> coverage is only beginning but, coincidentally, I believe there’s some good
> pictures in Amsterdam. It reads a subset of KML, so you can set up your own
> site, and I know John McKerrell is working on one such right now.
>

Nice but can anyone tell us how we can add photos to OpenStreetPhoto ?

Neither the page on openstreetphoto.org nor
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/OpenStreetPhoto gives any
detail about how us, the community can add photos to this database.

All I can find are details about how it could be implemented, and some
info about a model helicopter.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping party suggestion for SOTM

[Tim Waters (chippy)]

2009/7/9 Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason :
> A few months ago in some local news media a talking head claimed that
> Amsterdam's Red Light District wasn't in central Amsterdam and
> moreover that it didn't contain any Coffee shops, i.e. ones of the
> type that'll sell you more than just beverages.
>
> So of course I headed over to OSM to prove both of these to be
> incorrect. Only to find to my disappointment that not only did the map
> of Amsterdam not have an area (or even a POI!) for the Red Light
> district, it also didn't have any sort of tagging schema for
> aforementioned Coffee shops.
>
> (Incidental after some searching around this is the best map I can
> find showing those two features:
> http://www.coffeeshop.freeuk.com/Map.html)
>
> So here's hoping that SOTM visitors to Amsterdam will be able to
> rectify this situation.
>
> The problem of coming up with a tagging schema for POIs applicable to
> these two categories I leave to you.
>

I think that would be an interesting little micro mapping party.

Brings up the subject of how to map known "illegal establishments" -
we should map the truth on the ground, we should map their land use as
something like "brothel" and "recreational drug shop", in my opinion.

In a few countries, the law looks the other way, or are facing
loopholes, - the places name themselves "massage parlour", "coffee
shop" but people passing by know what they are really for. Added to
this is the threat that these places may take offence (sue?) at being
labeled as doing illegal things (even though they may well be).

Tim

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Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping Photos

[Tim Waters (chippy)]

Hi,
whilst on the subject of Flickr,
probably 1/2 of the photos tagged with "openstreetmap" in Flickr would
match what you are looking for:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/openstreetmap/

cheers,

Tim

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Re: [OSM-talk] New static-maps API

[Tim Waters (chippy)]

Looks great!

There is currently a Google Summer of Code project for OSM for the
very same thing, which is coming along extremely nicely. Perhaps when
it's ready in a few weeks the projects could be combined? Pawel's
added some nice features like caching and an admin panel amongst
others.

http://socghop.appspot.com/org/home/google/gsoc2009/openstreetmap
http://socghop.appspot.com/student_project/show/google/gsoc2009/openstreetmap/t124023144019

Cheers,

Tim

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Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map

[Tim Waters (chippy)]

One of the main annoyances that people tell me that they have with OSM
is that whenever they visit the site, the map shows them just the UK.

What are people's thoughts about the default zoom?
I'm aware that sometimes it may use a cookie and so the map will open
up to a previously viewed area - but only when logged in. At present
the website does not have a "remember me" / persistent login - so that
a user has to view the UK area on the map first, as a logged out user,
before manually logging in, and thereby possibly seeing the map
change.

Do you think it makes a difference what area a user views?
Would zooming based on IP Address be a good idea?
How about using cookies for non-logged in users?
How do other mapping websites do things, and are there any lessons to learn?

(One main difference on other sites is that their search box is much
more prominent)

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[OSM-talk] How to present OSM to an audience of potential newbies?

[Tim Morley]

In a few weeks, I'll have the chance to present OSM to an audience of  
youngish (18-30), intelligent, open-minded people, who more than  
likely haven't yet come across the project. There may well be people  
who are familiar with free and open source software, but that  
probably won't be everybody present.

Are there wiki pages, slideshows, materials, ideas, etc. that you can  
show me to help me prepare the presentation?

Failing that, how do *you* explain to someone that uses Google Maps  
every day why you spend your time re-creating the same thing under a  
different name? (Slightly provocative question, perhaps, but it must  
be a very common one too -- what's your answer?)

Thanks in advance for your help.


Tim


PS The audience is also very international, if that makes a  
difference -- mostly European (from all corners of the continent) but  
also with some Asians, South Americans, and Africans.

PPS Sorry if this is a topic that's been covered before, but I've  
only just joined the list (and the project) and I couldn't  
immediately find anything relevant in the archives. If I've missed  
something, please just send me a URL and I'll do the rest. Cheers.


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Re: [OSM-talk] People's Map

[Tim Waters (chippy)]

2009/4/10 andrew heggie :
> On Friday 10 April 2009 22:05:15 Martin Spott wrote:
>> D Tucny wrote:
>> > How much does a small plane with camera mount cost to hire for a day? :)
>
> I don't know about a day but 17 overlapping images of an approximately 10 by
> 10 km area cost me GBP600. Once rectified they were not true "plan" images
> being slightly oblique. I guess the best images would be taken higher ( mine
> were 14000ft IIRC) with a longer lens to reduce parallax errors.
>>
>> It depends on wether you're going to invite the pilot for a nice
>> meal  :-)
>> I think the most tricky part of the story is still to rectify and
>> adjust the resulting aerial imagery. If you managed to develop a
>> procedure for this step, please let me know  ;-)
>
> Jukka Rahkonen showed me how to do it with gdal_translate and gdalwarp. It's a
> lot easier than it looks at first.
>
> Essentially the first bit burns ground control points into the image the
> second then stretches the image and produces a geoTIFF from it. I visited 4
> ground control points with my GPS each about 3km apart and at prominent
> points near the corners of each image. I suggest you need farm ore ground
> control points than this at this scale because my georectified image was up
> to 20 metres adrift in some parts.

Indeed it's quite easy, at the basic level you can use a similar
service such as http://warper.geothings.net or choose from a desktop
GIS, most of them have some way of doing this. These would georectify
images, but we should orthorectify them too which is a bit more
trickier.

What happens is that the distance from lens to ground is different
over varying terrain, so it doesn't match what a map would be.

Crudely, imagine taking a snapshot photo from the plane just as you
fly over a mountain top: way down below you'd see the tiny roads, but
most of the frame would be the mountain peak. Of course,
orthorectification is more important with terrain at different
heights, and less so for flat ones.

I think the way these are done are to use a digital evevation model -
I would hope the free SRTM could be sufficient?

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Re: [OSM-talk] Category:TagsSupportedBy

[Tim 'avatar' Bartel]

Hi,

2009/3/31 Tobias Knerr :
> marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com wrote:
>> Is that a mediawiki-plugin?
>
> Didn't even know it was an extension until now, as many major wikis
> (especially Wikimedia's) seem to have it installed.

I stay corrected.

Bye, Tim.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Category:TagsSupportedBy

[Tim 'avatar' Bartel]

Hi,

2009/3/31  :
> On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:34:36 +0200, Tobias Knerr 
> wrote:
>> Something like Babel (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Babel)
>> templates would probably be easy, but I've got no idea what the
>> performance effects of something like that would be.
>
> I've never seen that
> {{#if:{{{1|}}}|XXX}} -construct.
> Is that a mediawiki-plugin?

It's pure MediaWiki (a parser function).
Not very cost-intensive, I don't expect any problems even if used excessively.

Bye, Tim.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Alternatives to wikipedia?

[Tim 'avatar' Bartel]

Hi,

2009/3/18 Russ Nelson :
> On Mar 18, 2009, at 4:53 AM, Lester Caine wrote:
>
>> On a number of occasions in the past I have linked to articles only
>> later to find the 'censors' message at the end of a link :( and I know
>> we have had this discussion in the past where other OSM contributors
>> have found the same problem.
>
> This is a serious enough issue that it should be escalated to the
> OSMF.  They should make an arrangement with Wikipedia saying: that an
> article linked from OSM to Wikipedia is by definition noteworthy, and
> that that justification cannot be used to delete an article from
> Wikipedia.  There might be other reasons: for example that the
> locations linked between OSM and Wikipedia are in fact not related, or
> the *location* is not worth including in OSM.
>
> If we're going to cooperate with Wikipedia, then they need to
> cooperate with us by not allowing any dangling links.

There are several reasons why this isn't possible, but the biggest one
is the following: Wikipedia isn't controlled by the Wikimedia
Foundation but by the community. With whom do you like to make an
arrangement? It's pretty hard to make an arrangement with a community
consisting out of constantly changing people.

Bye, Tim.

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap and Wikipedia (was: Map tag in Wikipedia)

[Tim 'avatar' Bartel]

Hi,

2009/3/17 Lars Aronsson :
>> Any further ideas? Add them to the talk page or join us in Berlin!
>
> If Daniel Kinzler is closing down registration for the meeting,
> because he claims it is overbooked and c-base is too small, we
> need to find another room in Berlin for this meeting.  Does
> anybody have a conference room in Berlin on April 3-5?  It needs
> to be free of charge or very cheap.

Originally no real life meeting was planned at all for the WM-DE/OSM
project, because the budget matches the price for the needed hardware.
So we had this idea to organize a small session at the MediaWiki
Developer Meetup - we didn't expect that it filled up so fast. I think
even the organizers were surprised by such a high interest in their
event. If I got it right, now it's already twice as big as originally
planned.

Personally I don't think it's possible to re-organize such a meetup in
only a few weeks. You'll need to talk to the organizers.

Regarding the people interested in the map project: Because the
project just started, it won't be too useful to add more people to the
group before we have buyed the servers, brought them to our data
center in Amsterdam and set up a base system. I'm pretty sure this
will need some time. Once we're done with this, we're really
interested in getting more people in.

Bye, Tim.

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[OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap and Wikipedia (was: Map tag in Wikipedia)

[Tim 'avatar' Bartel]

Hi,

2009/3/11 Frederik Ramm :
> Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:
>> Anyway, there's a MediaWiki developer meetup in Berlin next month
>
> [...]
>
>> But it would be very cool if someone that *did* know something about
>> the OSM platform were to go and talk to the people involved there
>> about getting OSM on Wikipedia.
>
> There will be people who know both OSM and Wikipedia, and they will talk
> about these things.

Yes. "Church of emacs" provided an English translation of our info
page - thanks!

You can find it here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap

Abstract: Wikimedia Germany is very interested in supporting the
interaction between OSM and Wikipedia. So the board decided to
allocate 15.000 Euros for some hardware and initiated a project with
two main goals:
- Integrating OSM maps into Wikipedia
- Building a Map-Toolserver similar to the Wikimedia-Toolserver to
give any interested OSM developer an easy possibility to build tools
and special maps without the hassle of building an own infrastructure
first.

Any further ideas? Add them to the talk page or join us in Berlin!

Bye, Tim.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Call for Papers for SOTM09 is now open

[Tim Waters (chippy)]

Thanks Nick,

for the clarification - it's certainly looking like it's going to be a
cracking conference!

chippy

2009/3/16 Nick Black :
> Hi Chippy,
>
> The idea of the business day is to promote OSM and opengeodata to potential
> users.  The business day is not so much about letting OSM solution providers
> promote their products.  We want to focus on the bigger issues - why OSM is
> important to consumers of geodata, why crowd sourcing is the way forward,
> reliability of OSM etc.  We are planning a "10 of the best" session - a one
> hour slot that would let startups and small businesses pitch their solution
> to the audience.
>
> The SOTM organizing committee are currently finalizing the themes and
> agenda, but this is what we are looking like at the moment:
>
> Suggested Themes:
>
> Crucially Independent - Why an independent third data source is vital for
> consumers of geodata
> The Crowd Sourced Advantage - What is crowd sourcing and how does it relate
> to map data?
> Safe and Secure - Delivering reliable, high quality products and services
> with OSM data
> Serving the Public - Using OSM data to provide better services to citizens
> in Local and National Government
>
> Criteria for Choosing Speakers
>
> World leader in a field that is directly relevant to a theme
> Senior level in a company that is contributing to the themes of the day
>
> Target Audience
>
> Execs and senior management from mobile handset manufacturers, network
> operators, transport consultancies, national and local government, web
> portals, navigation providers and other ISVs using mapping data
> Professional cartographers, GIS analysts and statisticians
> Owners of start-ups and small businesses who use or are considering using
> mapping data
> OSMers (of course ;-) )
>
> Concept program
>
> Show the problem - why do you need crowd sourced data?
> Introduce the solution - OSM - crowdsourced, reliable, up to date
> Give examples - people using OSM data
> Discussion panel - panel made up of leading speakers for the day
>
> The quick answer is that you should first submit to the weekend conference,
> via the online form.  When the Biz Day is finalised (in the next few days)
> you can always re-submit or submit a second paper.
>
> Cheers,
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Tim Waters (chippy) 
> wrote:
>>
>> 2009/3/16 Nick Black :
>> > That's right - there's only 117 days until we start SOTMizing in
>> > Amsterdam.
>> >
>> > Details of the Call for Papers are here:
>> >
>> > http://www.stateofthemap.org/2009/03/16/call-for-papers-for-the-stateofthemap-2009-is-now-open/
>> >
>> > You can buy an early bird ticket for the recession beating price of € 85
>> > here until the 29th March: http://www.stateofthemap.org/register-now/
>>
>> Could you clarify the call for papers and the Business Day - there
>> doesn't seem to be a way to just submit a paper to one or the other,
>> or to give a preference.
>>
>> From what I gather, the differences are not just Serious Business on
>> one day vs Fun Geeky Community stuff - there's cross over, right?
>> Might we have to submit two talks, one about how you can make serious
>> money using X for Friday, and one about the ins and outs of how X was
>> made for the weekend?
>>
>> Could we see certain talks repeated, say, from a celebrity speaker,
>> generous sponsor, etc?
>>
>> Tim
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Nick Black
> twitter.com/nick_b
>

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Re: [OSM-talk] Call for Papers for SOTM09 is now open

[Tim Waters (chippy)]

2009/3/16 Nick Black :
> That's right - there's only 117 days until we start SOTMizing in Amsterdam.
>
> Details of the Call for Papers are here:
> http://www.stateofthemap.org/2009/03/16/call-for-papers-for-the-stateofthemap-2009-is-now-open/
>
> You can buy an early bird ticket for the recession beating price of € 85
> here until the 29th March: http://www.stateofthemap.org/register-now/

Could you clarify the call for papers and the Business Day - there
doesn't seem to be a way to just submit a paper to one or the other,
or to give a preference.

>From what I gather, the differences are not just Serious Business on
one day vs Fun Geeky Community stuff - there's cross over, right?
Might we have to submit two talks, one about how you can make serious
money using X for Friday, and one about the ins and outs of how X was
made for the weekend?

Could we see certain talks repeated, say, from a celebrity speaker,
generous sponsor, etc?

Tim

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Re: [OSM-talk] California bill to limit detail on online mapping tools

[Tim Waters (chippy)]

And yet, the exact opposite is required, for certain locations in California.

Megan's Law http://www.meganslaw.ca.gov/

"Specific home addresses are displayed on more than 33,500 offenders
in the California communities; as to these persons, the site displays
the last registered address reported by the offender. An additional
30,500 offenders are included on the site with listing by ZIP Code,
city, and county"

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Re: [OSM-talk] Cloudmade: "We are the Wikipedia of maps"

[Tim 'avatar' Bartel]

Hi,

2009/3/11 Frederik Ramm :
>    as an OSM community member, I'm taking offence at the following article:
> http://techpulse360.com/2009/03/10/startup-cloudmade-wants-to-be-the-wikipedia-of-maps/
>
> The article says that Cloudmade "relies on its OpenStreetMap project", and:
[factual errors, confusing OSM and Cloudmade]

As a long time member of the Wikimedia Press Team and also beeing
responsible for the Wikia press work, I *really* do know that
journalists can mix up things and write whatever they like with little
connection to what you have told them. Especially they do like mixing
up Wikia and Wikipedia and how these two projects are connected. This
is neither wanted by Wikipedians, nor by Wikia.

So what can you do about this if it happens to often?
Besides stressing this topics whenever we talk to press people, we
created a short Q&A about the typical topics which are often reported
inaccuratly. This Q&A is given to any journalist we talk to and is
also included at the bottom of press releases. For the topic mentioned
above this looks like this:

--[snip]--
Relationships between Wikimedia and Wikia

To avoid confusion, please be aware of what Wikia is and what Wikia is not.
* Wikia is not a Wikimedia project.
* Wikia is not a for-profit arm of Wikipedia
* Wikia is not a sister project of Wikipedia.

The Wikimedia Foundation is a non-profit organization which manages
Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia projects. Wikia is not a Wikimedia
project. Wikia is run by a separate company, Wikia, Inc., which is
independent of the Wikimedia Foundation, and therefore independent of
Wikipedia.
--[snap]--

...and even then some journalists still don't get it - in this cases
we contact them afterwards and try to get the errors fixed.

So if this confusion between Cloudmade and OSM will happen again in
the future, perhaps a Q&A for journalists may mitigate the problem.
And for the readers: Don't believe that everything you read in an
article/interview is reported accurately - and feel free to reach out
to the editor!

Bye, Tim.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Map tag in Wikipedia

[Tim 'avatar' Bartel]

Hi,

2009/3/4 Lars Aronsson :
> Should we try to introduce the map tag in Wikipedia?  Has it
> already been tried, and what was the reaction?  Do we have any bad
> experience from its use in the OSM, to learn and improve from?

We're working on this, I'll post some more information soon.

> Fortunately, there is a Wikipedia developer meeting on April 3-5,
> where I could bring this forward.

We can speak about our current work there.

Bye, Tim.

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Re: [OSM-talk] form input field for "GPS Traces"

[Tim Waters (chippy)]

2009/3/3 Roman Neumüller :
> I recommend to add a form input field for "GPS Traces" where a user can
> easily search for a tag, let's say GPS tracks for Paris.
> You can easily upload your tracks but you cannot easily search. I know that
> I can of course type a tag into the browser's address field like
>
>   http://www.openstreetmap.org/traces/tag/Paris
>
> But a normal user may not know it. And: if I write it wrongly like
>
>   http://www.openstreetmap.org/traces/tag/Pariss
>
> or
>
>   http://www.openstreetmap.org/traces/Paris
>
> I get:
>
>   Application error
>
>   Change this error message for exceptions thrown outside of an action
>   (like in Dispatcher setups or broken Ruby code) in public/500.html
>
> Roman

http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/206

The existing patch (using  LIKE ) should work for
http://www.openstreetmap.org/traces/tag/Par for example, but wouldn't
work for mis spellings. I'd assume we'd be after some kind of
Googleish suggest functionality? Feel free to hack on it.

"did you mean Paris or Parnassus?"

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Re: [OSM-talk] "News blog" link - to blogs.openstreetmap.org?

[Tim Waters (chippy)]

A few points to throw in the mix:

* Do we have people who want to write a blog for the project as a
whole?  - Blogging requires quite a bit of commitment, especially for
such a fast moving project, if things get busy elsewhere, the blogs
tend to suffer.

* Assuming we have enough people interested, should we have some kind
of editorial policy (i.e. "no Wee Poo Street notifications", or "max
two LOLcat pictures a month")?

* If we create a new blog - can/should we import the relevant tagged
entries from opengeodata?

* Can we simply rename opengeodata or point to blog subdomain? (Where
is it hosted?)

tim

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg

[Tim Waters (chippy)]

2009/2/11 Someoneelse :

> One thing that might be useful would be some sort of "My OSM" or a
> "saved play mode" feature* -

Now, that would be an interesting idea  - being able to access all
your edits and the history of these in one place.

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Re: [OSM-talk] New Map Warper

[Tim Waters (chippy)]

2009/2/11 Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason :
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Tim Waters (chippy)
>  wrote:
>> I'd like to announce the release of the latest Map Warper image
>> rectifier application, designed with OSM in mind.
>> http://warper.geothings.net/
>
> Firstly thanks for working on this, it's a very useful application
> which makes it very easy to use third-party bitmap maps to import into
> OSM.
>
>> You may have seen or used the older application, this one has got a
>> few more bells and whistles, including:
>>* Search for maps.
>>* Users & "MyMaps". (no need to sign up to use it)
>>* Image cropping.
>>* Control Point editing.
>>* Calculation of RMS errors.
>>* Export in different formats.
>>* Activity feeds.
>>
>> More info: http://thinkwhere.wordpress.com/2009/02/10/new-map-warper/
>>
>> Caveats: It will rescale large images (over 1500x1500), but it also
>> makes things work much faster. It is ultra-beta and undergoing active
>> development, so expect bugs and things not to work, but for most uses
>> it should work fine. Let me know if you encounter any such things.
>> If you have any existing WMS links from the older version, they will
>> still work and I've also imported the existing maps, and control
>> points. If you sign up and want to "own" a map you previously
>> uploaded, let me know.
>>
>> Features planned include serving the rectified maps as tiles, adding
>> tags, making maps private, making the KML export better, and
>> incorporating GeoRSS feeds. Again, feel free to drop me a line if you
>> have a good idea for a new feature, or if you'd like to hack on it.
>
> These new features are very useful, especially the ones to do with
> user accounts, it's nice to have a list of your maps instead of just
> adding them to one giant pool.
>
> I think the map rectifier is a bit less intuitive than in the previous
> version. I used to be able to double click on either map which would
> add a new rectification point and then do the same with the other map,
> but now one has to switch between the Add point/Move point/Move map
> tools to move around the map. This has the advantage of being able to
> double click on the map in move mode without adding points (and
> probably something else I'm missing). But switching between the
> different modes took me bit longer using this method.

Yes, I'd agree with you there, the reasoning is that people tend to
use double click to zoom in, but I think that double clicking should
make it a bit easier. Will look into it.

> Also, being able to download GeoTiff from the application is a very
> useful feature, but does it also support GeoTiff uploads? That would
> enable moving maps between installations and using this as a easy to
> set up WMS for misc GeoTiff files.

At the moment, I don't think it likes geotiff files that have already
been rectified, but you could try with a small one... Anyhow, the
approach I would take is to strip out any original geo tags from the
image, and so you would have to add a few control points and warp it
again.
It's not really meant to be a WMS host for ready made GeoTiff files,
but I may put a simple upload-a-tif-and-host-it service anyhow, as you
are not the first person to ask for this.
 (JOSM import support for reading geotiffs would rock).

> The biggest disadvantage of this tool is still being limited by the
> size of maps you can upload. I have several ~6000x~5000 pixel maps I'd
> like to have access to over WMS, each around 12 MB[1]. Is there any
> reason for this limitation other than preventing the application from
> taking over resources on your server? Or is it a limitation of some
> library you're working with?

Yes, this is Dreamhost, they have a script that will terminate
processes using a lot of CPU or RAM, so I can add a couple of
restrictions (file size and image dimensions). You may like to have a
look at another deploy over at http://warper.freemap.in for larger
files. We're going to be warping 800mb tifs soon... here, the main
limitation is that you can expect http timeouts for very large
uploads.


Cheers!

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[OSM-talk] New Map Warper

[Tim Waters (chippy)]

Hi,

I'd like to announce the release of the latest Map Warper image
rectifier application, designed with OSM in mind.
http://warper.geothings.net/

You may have seen or used the older application, this one has got a
few more bells and whistles, including:
* Search for maps.
* Users & "MyMaps". (no need to sign up to use it)
* Image cropping.
* Control Point editing.
* Calculation of RMS errors.
* Export in different formats.
* Activity feeds.

More info: http://thinkwhere.wordpress.com/2009/02/10/new-map-warper/

Caveats: It will rescale large images (over 1500x1500), but it also
makes things work much faster. It is ultra-beta and undergoing active
development, so expect bugs and things not to work, but for most uses
it should work fine. Let me know if you encounter any such things.
If you have any existing WMS links from the older version, they will
still work and I've also imported the existing maps, and control
points. If you sign up and want to "own" a map you previously
uploaded, let me know.

Features planned include serving the rectified maps as tiles, adding
tags, making maps private, making the KML export better, and
incorporating GeoRSS feeds. Again, feel free to drop me a line if you
have a good idea for a new feature, or if you'd like to hack on it.

Uses OpenLayers, GDAL, Mapserver and RubyOnRails, source can be found
http://svn2.geothings/net/mapwarper or
http://github.com/timwaters/mapwarper

Cheers,

Tim

Incidentally, what do we think about using Google's Satellite View for
helping to rectify our maps?
In the comments of Ed Parsons post
http://www.edparsons.com/2008/10/who-map-is-it-anyway/ there was a
discussion about Google's rights over things you make using their API,
and I think Ed is making it clear that using the Satellite view to
rectify images for this application would be quite OK, giving the
similar use case of adding an image to Google Earth and I'm inclined
to agree with him.

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg

[Tim Waters (chippy)]

Interesting how a few of the comments echo the early Wikipedia
criticisms, and miss the point about open data.


2009/2/11 Ed Loach :
> I saw this yesterday and wondered why it took El Reg so long to report on
> this? The announcement made these mailing lists on 23rd December last year.
>
>
>
> Ed
>
>
>
> From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org]
> On Behalf Of D Tucny
> Sent: 11 February 2009 09:31
> To: Talk Openstreetmap
> Subject: [OSM-talk] OSM on The Reg
>
>
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/10/brum_map/
>
>
>
> Couple of nice links there, both to the map and the home page...
>
>
>
> Comments in the comments section are largely at the same level of
> positiveness and understanding as is largely normal on the reg these days
> (read mostly negative)...
>
>
>
> d
>
> ___
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> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>

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[OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - amenity=clock

[Tim 'avatar' Bartel]

Hi,

the amenity=clock proposal is now open for voting. Please visit:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/Clock

If you should decide to vote against it, it would be very helpful if
you include a small reason. Thanks.

Bye, Tim.

-- 
http://wikipedistik.de

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Re: [OSM-talk] Network Rail UK

[Tim Waters (chippy)]

On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 7:45 PM, andrew heggie
 wrote:
> Is it possible to derive a vector layer of UK's rail network and would I be
> allowed to use it to produce reports for my work? If so how because it will
> save me a lot of tracing!
>
> AJH
>

Worth mentioning that geofabrik makes very regular exports of railways
for the UK. You can download them from
http://download.geofabrik.de/osm/europe/great_britain/

cheers,
Tim

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[OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - amenity=clock

[Tim 'avatar' Bartel]

Hi,

I just created my first proposal about tagging public clocks and like
to hear some thoughts and discuss possible changes inside the wiki.

You'll find  the proposal here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Clock

Thanks, Tim.

-- 
http://wikia.com

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[OSM-talk] NPE maps broken?

[Tim Sheerman-Chase]

Hi all,

I think I have a fix for the NPE map using Richard's tiles. I previous 
wrote a WMS server to handle it and the latest JOSM seems to be ok with 
it too. Details here:

http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/1918

TimSC

PS Medway mapping party 14th/15th Feb. 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Medway


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Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - landuse=conservation

[Tim Berners-Lee]

Peter,

Yes, my first post.  But just me as a map and outdoors enthusiast.   
Not representing W3C.

No subtext to my post.  Just asking for  tag.

(Now landuse=conservation is in mapnik and osmarender, I am more  
confident we are making progress on this, and will be able to motivate  
people to maintain maps of conservation land.)


That said, I'm happy to separately talk mapping the OSM to the  
semantic web, OSM and W3C in  in a subject line.


Tim

On 2009-01 -09, at 19:01, Peter Miller wrote:



On 9 Jan 2009, at 15:46, Tim Berners-Lee wrote:

I'd like to propose a tag for conservation land -  land protected  
from development.
There was no alternative for tis tag in the thousands of areas  
which CRSchmidt
imported recently from the Mass GIS database of open space in  
Massachusetts.


Details below and on the wiki at:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/conservation

Tim Berners-Lee



Tim, if this is your first post can I first say welcome from all of  
us, if not then I should go an read you previous posts and give my  
apologies for missing them so far. It is great to have input and  
that that of W3. I know that you are personally keen on a free  
geographic web to support a semantic web and that is of course what  
OSM is busy collecting. If the subtext of your post is that W3 is  
interested in OSM and the standards behind it then we are all ears.  
Personally I think 2009 will be a breakthrough year for the project  
and we are going to need all the help we can get to deal with the  
expectations that will be raised.



Regards,


Peter Miller



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[OSM-talk] OSM and Linked Data, and W3C, etc ...

[Tim Berners-Lee]

(Changing the subject line)

The map really needs a SPARQL server (easy), and cross-linking to URIs  
in dbpedia or geonames (which are themselves alreday cross-linked)   
would be a good idea (but more work).


From outside it looks as though the OSM XML format and API are  
developing in the OSM community in a reasonable way.  What sort of  
help do you think OSM will need? Money to run servers if the load  
increases?  An existing standards org with facilities and process for  
the API and the XML format? What was it you had in mind?


timbl


On 2009-01 -09, at 19:01, Peter Miller wrote:

[..]
. I know that you are personally keen on a free geographic web to  
support a semantic web and that is of course what OSM is busy  
collecting. If the subtext of your post is that W3 is interested in  
OSM and the standards behind it then we are all ears. Personally I  
think 2009 will be a breakthrough year for the project and we are  
going to need all the help we can get to deal with the expectations  
that will be raised.



Regards,


Peter Miller



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[OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - landuse=conservation

[Tim Berners-Lee]

I'd like to propose a tag for conservation land -  land protected from  
development.
There was no alternative for tis tag in the thousands of areas which  
CRSchmidt
imported recently from the Mass GIS database of open space in  
Massachusetts.


Details below and on the wiki at:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/conservation

Tim Berners-Lee

__

Definition

Conservation land is land protected from development.

It is left in more or less a natural state.

It is often maintained to a very limited extent, such as annual mowing  
to prevent forest growth, removal of invasive species, replanting, or  
dealing with or preventing erosion.


The public typically, but not always, has access, as it is a valuable  
recreational resource. (Sometimes the public has no physical way of  
getting to it, or is not allowed for water protection reasons, safety,  
etc).


There is often but not always a long-term commitment to preserve the  
state of conservation land over a long timescale. This is necessary  
because is is difficult or impossible and very expensive to re-create  
conservation land. (See protected=perpituity when and if it is proposed)

Significance

   * It is very valuable for individuals to be able to find open  
space for hiking, walking, cross-country skiing, or simply relaxing  
away from the buzz of the city. Conserved lands are a destination in  
themselves.
   * In the suburbs, open spaces may be dense enough to be  
connectible into strings which allow for a long outing. In the Greater  
Boston area, for example, there are a large number of conservation  
areas, but the paths between them are not well signposted (as they  
would be in the UK or Switzerland, for example). The OSM provides a  
valuable resource for those building up a walk, or training run, from  
various different parcels.
   * It is very valuable for those studying humankind's effect on the  
environment to be able to find, measure and do research on areas where  
it has specifically been minimized.
   * Information on conserved lands is essential in the planning of  
greenways. Greenways -- chained areas of openspace with public access  
-- are often a mixture of national and local effort, and OSM can form  
a common resource in their development.
   * Open space management is an important aspect of government at  
each scale. Although many governments have databases of openspace  
resources, the OSM can integrate data from different countries and  
agencies.


Many conservation areas have no other land use: to tag them as "nature  
reserve" or "park" would be misleading. In a way the essence of  
conservation is to limit use to non-damaging visits by the public. (Is  
it logical to use the landuse tag even though it is a sort of lack of  
use? Of course, just as one can have access=no. While it is as much a  
restriction on land use as much as a land use, it certainly belongs in  
the landuse key.)


Remember that tagging something as landuse=conservation is orthogonal  
to tagging it with its natural state of woodland, heath, marsh,  
wetland, and so on. In general you can't deduce the natural state of  
land from the fact that it is conservation land.


There are many general benefits shared by typical conservation lands.  
They may provide benefits to humans, to wild animals and pets, and to  
plants. They provide a habitat. They allow animals to safely move  
around without human interference. They typically reduce the load on  
the land. They allowing water to drain into the ground (rather than  
drains) promoting the water table. They form sound barriers. They  
reduce light pollution, allowing suburb-dwellers to see a few stars.  
And so on. So the actual uses of conserved lands are many. The actual  
profile varies from parcel to parcel, so the landuse=conservation tag  
covers many things, which it is not practical to individually tag on  
the map.

Examples

In the UK, the National Trust has the power to protect land from  
development in perpetuity.


   * The Lizard and Kynance Cove

In Massachusetts, the state Department of Conservation and Recreation  
(DCR) manages a number of conservation lands , as does each town such  
as the town of Sudbury:


   * Town of Sudbury owned Conservation lands

(Note this only lists those owned by the town, not all the ones IN the  
town).


   * Hiking resources managed by Massachusetts Dept of Conservation &  
Recreation


In Germany, this proposal matches the definition of  
"Landschaftsschutzgebiet". A tag for this sort of area is currently  
missing.

Rendering ideas

In the latitude of the examples, open space is often actually a rough  
green, one might think of the green of open heath, wild grass, ferns  
(bracken), and so on. Clearly it should be green, as that is one of  
the most important things about it.


As the fact that is it conservation land 

Re: [OSM-talk] google wms

[Tim Waters (chippy)]

On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 9:58 AM, Andrew Chadwick (email lists)
 wrote:
> Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
>> apologies if this has been brought up before, but some people I have brought
>> into OSM have stumbled across this site:
>> http://www.peterdamen.com/GoogleWMS/
>> and were all set to pollute the OSM database when I stopped them. Can we not
>> convince this gentleman to cease and desist?
>
> Persuading the author to put up a big reminder at the top of the page
> saying "OSM users: please upload only to private osm-api servers" or
> somesuch might be more useful. The tool is presumably useful outside OSM!

Well even so, it would probably be against the terms of use etc from
Google, and they can ask for it to be taken down, so whilst it may be
useful, it cannot be used...

That saying, whilst it would apply to Google, it wouldn't be for everything.
The tool could be used for other tiled layers - something of much greater use.

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Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM WMS--cool!

[Tim Waters (chippy)]

Does it support WMS-C (i.e. from tilecache server) now?

Tim

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 7:29 PM, Beej Jorgensen  wrote:
> I love the new tile-based WMS stuff that I picked up with the latest
> JOSM.  Top notch!
>
> -Beej
>
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