Re: [Texascavers] delete button

[Don Cooper]

Well
Look at it this way, ok?
Mr. Mixon is not asking to bring on an edict, he's just asking us all to be
considerate of the elements he pointed out.
I don't think that's unreasonable.
Ok this is a short reply, but I think it says enough, besides I'm not
sending it to everyone on list either.

-DC

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Charles Goldsmith wrote:

> Well Bill, not everyone writes a dissertation when sending an email,
> and email really isn't a good medium for long exchanges, since there
> is very little to no inflection.
>
> While replying with just a LOL or Me Too is annoying to some people I
> guess, most of those people don't say much anyway.
>
> It's not like we have a stats page that shows postings versus words
> per email.  And no, I don't plan to set one up either, I'm too lazy
> for that :p
>
> I wouldn't worry about it too much Bill, just keep using that delete
> button like most people.
>
> Charles
> list administrator that is crawling back into his hole in the
> wonderful DFW metroplex
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 9:41 PM, Mixon Bill
> wrote:
> > I have a delete button like everybody else, but it nevertheless takes a
> > while to delete forty new Texas Cavers list messages that are ten words
> > each. And those worthless little "Me either" messages must be a real pain
> to
> > those who monitor their e-mail messages frequently or are pestered by
> their
> > cell phones every time one arrives. At least I see my e-mail only when I
> > tell my computer to fetch it.
> >
> > If you don't have at least a couple of complete sentences of new and
> > interesting material to add, how about not replying, or replying only to
> the
> > original sender? How about a 100-word minimum? (This message is one
> hundred
> > seventeen words.)-- Mixon
> > 
> > To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites.
> > 
> > You may "reply" to the address this message
> > came from, but for long-term use, save:
> > Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
> > AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> > For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
> >
> >
>
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>
>

Fwd: [Texascavers] battery related

[Don Cooper]

-- Forwarded message --
From: Don Cooper 
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] battery related
To: Lyndon Tiu 
Cc: David 


And of course, please note - "Lithium" does NOT imply "Lithium-Ion".
Lithium Ion also should incorporate either the direct connection to, or have
a built in micro-controller to regulate charge and discharge, since Lithium
Ion cells can generate enough heat to self-ignite.

-WaV


On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 12:22 AM, Lyndon Tiu  wrote:

> Don Cooper wrote:
>
>> Lithium Ion is probably the superior in terms of power to weight.
>>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_battery#cite_note-7
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
>
>
>  On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 9:45 PM, David > dlocklea...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>This is probably old news, but I just found out about it.
>>
>>Energizer's patent on lithium batteries expired a year ago. About
>>that time, there
>>was some post about a new Energizer lithium battery being marketed
>>with less juice and
>>a little cheaper.
>>
>
> --
> Lyndon Tiu
>

Re: [Texascavers] battery related

[Don Cooper]

Lithium Ion is probably the superior in terms of power to weight.  Nickel
Metal hydride is cheaper, but quite superior to older batteries like NiCad
and Lead Acid.  (Lead Acid though can support millions of charge/discharge
cycles - I don't think any other battery can compete in that parameter,
except maybe fuel cells)
Correct me if I'm wrong.
-WaV

On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 9:45 PM, David  wrote:

> This is probably old news, but I just found out about it.
>
> Energizer's patent on lithium batteries expired a year ago. About
> that time, there
> was some post about a new Energizer lithium battery being marketed
> with less juice and
> a little cheaper.
>

Re: [Texascavers] Bear Grylls goes caving (with a torch made of a strip of t-shirt soaked in wild boar fat)

[Don Arburn]

Bear has a crew. Les is alone. Les' show was called Survivorman.  
Bear's is Man vs Wild.



Don's iPhone.

On Aug 21, 2009, at 1:56 PM, Gill Edigar  wrote:

Is this the guy that claims to be doing his own photography, sound,  
and all that? If so, I've seen a few bits of it and don't buy into  
it 100%. My guess is that he's never alone--always got somebody  
standing by to lend a hand, offer a suggestion, keep an eye on him  
to make sure he doesn't screw something up and die.


Most of those sort of adventure shows will have a film/support crew  
of at least 2 or 3 traipsing along with um.


--Ediger


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Re: [Texascavers] Bear Grylls goes caving (with a torch made of a strip of t-shirt soaked in wild boar fat)

[Don Arburn]

He has a all new season, these are all new.


Don's iPhone.



They are all now in reruns, as he has retired from the show.
Later,
Mark

Re: [Texascavers] Bear Grylls goes caving (with a torch made of a strip of t-shirt soaked in wild boar fat)

[Don Arburn]

Read Bears disclaimer at the start of the show. Kinda kills the whole  
thing. Recently, he tried to trap a caribou, when he failed, the land  
steward provided one for him. He promptly lost most of the meat doing  
something foolish, like climbing down a frozen waterfall. He is a  
strong, well trained and knowledgable, but also a showman. He did an  
episode with Will Ferrel, what does that tell you. His shows are  
entertaining, like a circus.



Don's iPhone.

On Aug 21, 2009, at 12:51 PM, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote:



I lost interest in this guy and his show when I repeatedly saw him  
doing things that were either unnecessary, dangerous, or just plain  
stupid.


Then, fraud and hoaxes were introduced.

Read below:


http://www.nypost.com/seven/07242007/news/nationalnews/grylls_thrills_bogus__expert_nationalnews_don_kaplan.htm


If you want to see the real deal, watch Les Stroud on Survivorman.

No camera crew, no cushy digs, and he films EVERYTHING himself.


Sets up the shot, starts the camera, walks off a quarter mile or  
around or threw a lake, and has to go back and fetch the camera.



What a beating.

But, a great show!

They are all now in reruns, as he has retired from the show.


Later,

Mark




From: Fofo [mailto:gonza...@msu.edu]
Sent: Fri 8/21/2009 12:23 PM
To: texascavers
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Bear Grylls goes caving (with a torch  
made of a strip of t-shirt soaked in wild boar fat)


Sounds like another episode I saw, where he got into a mine with a  
torch
that he dipped in kerosene. He went deeper, downclimbed a shaft,  
_then_
his torch went out (and I thought, "In real life, that would pretty  
much

be 'game over'") and he said how dangerous the whole thing was and he
kept walking (in total darkness, recorder in IR), following the wall,
until he found the exit.

I stopped believing the whole thing one time when he did a rappel, he
tied one end of the rope, threw the rest down and descended -- and
later, he had the whole rope again with him! Uh, yeah, right...

  - Fofo

Don Cooper wrote, on 21/8/09 9:48:
> Nay, but following Occam's Razor - "If it smells of 'B.S.' - it  
probably

> IS some form of 'S.'...
> -WaV
>
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 6:39 AM,  <mailto:speleoste...@tx.rr.com>> wrote:
>
>  From TagNet this morning:
> c
> Man vs. Wild
>  By: Karl Niles  (Bowling Green, Kentucky)
>
> Caught an episode of Man vs. Wild Wednesday night. Bear Grylls  
(host)

> got dropped off by chopper in a remote area of Alabama.
>
>

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Re: [Texascavers] Bear Grylls goes caving (with a torch made of a strip of t-shirt soaked in wild boar fat)

[Don Cooper]

Nay, but following Occam's Razor - "If it smells of 'B.S.' - it probably IS
some form of 'S.'...
-WaV

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 6:39 AM,  wrote:

> From TagNet this morning:
> c
> Man vs. Wild
>  By: Karl Niles  (Bowling Green, Kentucky)
>
> Caught an episode of Man vs. Wild Wednesday night. Bear Grylls (host)
> got dropped off by chopper in a remote area of Alabama.
>

Re: [Texascavers] RE: Bat house collapses in Florida

[Don Cooper]

(Little Bat Pieces...)

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 12:22 PM, Gill Edigar  wrote:

> RIP
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Jim Kennedy  wrote:
>
>>  No, but at least 100 of them had to go to the bat morgue.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* bgillegi...@gmail.com [mailto:bgillegi...@gmail.com] *On Behalf
>> Of *Gill Edigar
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 18, 2009 10:26 AM
>> *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com
>> *Subject:* [Texascavers] Fwd: Bat house collapses in Florida
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Texascavers] FW: Only one word...

[Don Cooper]

I have some Christy video taken in the canyon during a trip to Bustamonte -
I'll be transferring it soon to digital and will post it on my facebook
account.

-WaV

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 12:58 PM,  wrote:

>  WOW, Denise.  That email gave me chills.  She was WONDERFUL.  I can't
> believe it's been 10 years.  I remember the memorial like it was yesterday.
>
> Thank you for the reminder.
>
> julia
>
>
>  -Original Message-
> From: Denise P 
> To: TexasCavers 
> Sent: Wed, Aug 5, 2009 12:59 pm
> Subject: [Texascavers] FW: Only one word...
>
>  This month marks the 10th year of losing Christy Quintana in a caving
> accident in San Luis Potosi. I only knew her a year, but she was truly
> unforgettable. So charismatic. I keep this last email from her in my email
> inbox.
>
> Sniff,
> Denise
>
> > From: christinequint...@hotmail.com
> > To: pepabe...@hotmail.com
> > Subject: Only one word...
> > Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:37:39 -0500
> >
> >
> > GOLANDRINAS!! That is the word that I have for you both! Yep... I am
> going to go down Golandrinas!! Can you believe it? Of course, the real
> problem will be going up! Anyway, that will probably be on Saturday!! I will
> think of you both!
> >
> > It is really great here!! Everyone is really nice, of course that may be
> because I do not understand half the time!! No, not really. Unfortunately, I
> do not have too much access to the computer to write more often. So sad
> because I know you both miss me terribly!! RIGHT???
> >
> > I hope that Colorado has been wonderful. Apesta is a new word that I
> learned...it means to stink, or from what I hear, is a synonym for Dale
> Barnard. By the way, one thing that I forgot to bring here...A jacket!! SO
> ha ha on your cold Colorado. Not only is it cold here but everyone speaks
> Spanish and there are caves!!
> >
> > I´ll try to write soon!! Miss you all!! Tell Amie and the crew hello!!
> > Christy
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
>
> --
> Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. Check it 
> out.=
>
>

Re: [Texascavers] ICS follow-up

[Don Cooper]

I understand that Justin Shaw got a badly infected insect bite requiring
medical attention.
Staying away from those swim trips and remaining in close proximity to a
damn yankee through most of the convention - I remain, thankfully, healthy.
Same for almost all of my bunkmates, 'cept for Yazmine's runny nose (she
never really got sick).
.
-WaV

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:25 PM, David  wrote:

> I had 2 tiny scrapes on my skin that became infected after swimming in
> the Guadalupe River.
>
> -
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>
>

Re: [Texascavers] ICS Related

[Don Arburn]

Live to work
Or
Work to live.


Don's iPhone.

On Aug 2, 2009, at 8:39 AM, Nancy Weaver  wrote:


Vacation is more precious than money

Many places will not let one take time off without pay.

Maybe the question is - whose life is this anyway and what am I  
willing to trade for it?


Nnacy

Re: [Texascavers] ICS Related

[Don Cooper]

Charles - do you have an option to take "leave" (unpaid time off) rather
than "vacation"?
If not - would you have made that choice instead?

-DC

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Charles Goldsmith wrote:

> The same for me Denise, but I took off 7 days out of my 10 that I get
> a year (2 weeks = 10 working days) of vacation, so it was a big
> sacrifice for me as well.  It was a paid vacation, but I get so little
> of it...
>
> Very painful
>
> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Denise P wrote:
> > I did not forsake pay, but as vacation time is more precious to me than
> > money (I'd take time off without pay if I could), I'd say donating 1/3 of
> my
> > annual vacation time to ICS was no small deal to me. Painful in fact...
> >
> > -Denise
> >
> > 
> > Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 03:54:49 -0500
> > From: wavyca...@gmail.com
> > To: Texascavers@texascavers.com
> > Subject: [Texascavers] ICS Related
> >
> > I would be interested in knowing how many volunteers at ICS took time off
> of
> > their jobs with no vacation compensation
> > (they forsake income) to attend ICS?
> > Unemployment does not count.
> >
> > -WaV
> >
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
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> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
>

Re: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories

[Don Cooper]

I believe it!  You can TRUST the Man O' Steele at his word!

(Oh, and where did you want me to ship those lead bars to, Bill?)

-WaV

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:43 AM,  wrote:

> Ok, all y'all can relax now. I've quit rocking packs. The pinnacle of my
> rockin' career was Frank Binney
> last week and James Brown this week. I'm going to quit now. So, you don't
> need to guard your packs. Don't
> practice "rock paranoia" in other words.
>
> Bill
>
>  Charles Goldsmith  wrote:
> > I dunno if he found it or not, he didn't say anything.
> >
> > I'm making a mental note, never to leave any bags unattended around Mr.
> Steele.
> >
> > Charles
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 9:30 PM,  wrote:
> > > Ok, I'll do it. I rocked James Brown last night at the grotto meeting.
> I even told him I was going to. I placed two decoy rocks and a well hidden
> rock in a pack he had left at our house. He probably found the decoys and
> didn't look hard enough to find the third one. Tee hee.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > >
> > >  mark gee  wrote:
> > >> I to have been Stoned by Steele. I wander who holds the record for ,
> most people they have rocked. A story needs to be writen for the Caver. Bill
> , why dont you tell us of your rocky memories. Puns Excepted
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 
> > > From: "germa...@aol.com" 
> > > To: jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net; wo...@justfamily.org;
> fr...@frankbinney.com; fh...@townandcountryins.com
> > > Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:44:06 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
> > >
> > >
> > > He's not the only one who does this!  I've been a victim as well, but
> since I collect rocks, it really wasn't a bad thing!
> > >
> > > julia
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: John P Brooks 
> > > To: Charles Goldsmith ; Frank Binney <
> fr...@frankbinney.com>; Fritz Holt 
> > > Cc: Texas Cavers 
> > > Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2009 12:39 pm
> > > Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
> > >
> > >
> > > LOL..Lesson learned once againNEVER LEAVE your back pack ALONE
> with Bill Steele for even a NANO-SECONDor you WILL end up with a rock in
> your pack.
> > >
> > > Thats like one of the "TEN COMMANDMENTS of CAVING" Thou shalt not
> trusteth thine pack to the Man O Steele...
> > >
> > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Fritz Holt  wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>From: Fritz Holt 
> > >>Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
> > >>To: "Charles Goldsmith" , "Frank Binney" <
> fr...@frankbinney.com>
> > >>Cc: "Texas Cavers" 
> > >>Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:20 PM
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Bill Steele has told similar stories and is famous for this. You were
> just one of the "fortunate" recipients.
> > >>Fritz
> > >>
> > >>-Original Message-
> > >>From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org]
> > >>Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:34 AM
> > >>To: Frank Binney
> > >>Cc: Texas Cavers
> > >>Subject: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
> > >>
> > >>And how long have you known Bill?  Caved with him?
> > >>
> > >>Really cool story about the Grand Canyon and your pack though.
> > >>
> > >>Charles
> > >>
> > >>On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Frank Binney
> wrote:
> > >>> On 7/29/09 8:46 PM, "Charles Goldsmith" 
> wrote:
> > >>>
> >  So Frank, what's this I hear about you and your extra big backpack?
> > 
> > >>> Actually I had two amazing backpack experiences at ICS:
> > >>>
> > >>> 1) Back in the early 1970s I visited a multiple entrance cave in the
> > >>> Grand Canyon. Technical climbing was required to reach the entrances,
> > >>> and wetsuits were required to negotiate the stream passage deeper
> > >>> inside the cave (which, by the way, had been mapped by Rune and other
> > >>> Texas cavers back in the 1960s).
> > >>> We entered by way of a dry upper entrance, where I stashed the
> > >>> brand-new expensive backpack I had used to transport the wetsuits,
> > >>> rope and climbing gear. Twelve hours later, exhausted from pushing
> > >>> tight leads deep in the cave, we decided to save time by rappelling
> > >>> down to the Colorado River by way of a lower, wet entrance. As dawn
> > >>> light began to illuminate the Grand Canyon, we pushed off down stream
> > >>> in our oar raft and it was shortly thereafter I realized my expensive
> > >>> new backpack remained in that upper entrance.
> > >>> Over the next 35 years, especially when I passed below those cave
> > >>> entrances on numerous Grand Canyon raft trips, I wondered what might
> > >>> have happened to that pack.
> > >>> So imagine my surprise at the ICS banquet when Bob and Debbie Buecher
> > >>> came over and asked if I was missing a backpack. A few years ago Bob
> > >>> was at that particular entrance and noticed a dusty pack stashed on a
> > >>> ledge. He's got it at his home in Tucson and plans to reunite me with
> it.
> > >>>
> > >>> 2) My other ICS amazing bac

[Texascavers] Re: ICS Related

[Don Cooper]

Um - bad syntax...

I meant "(they had to forsake income) to attend..."

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 3:54 AM, Don Cooper  wrote:

> I would be interested in knowing how many volunteers at ICS took time off
> of their jobs with no vacation compensation
> (they forsake income) to attend ICS?
> Unemployment does not count.
>
> -WaV
>

Re: [ot_caving] Life

[Don Cooper]

Good one, Bill!

I hope you have a happy birthday!!!

-wAv

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Bill Bentley  wrote:

>  Next month I will be 50 years old. About 5 years ago I had the
> opportunity to finally get to ride a horse. This would become a near death
> experience that has changed me forever. My horse riding experience was going
> great I really thought that horseback riding was not so hard and that I
> didn't see what the fuss was about and as everything was going fine
> until
> all at once for no reason the danged horse starts bouncing out of control. He
> was bucking like bronco in the pro rodeo show. I tried with all my might to
> hang on, but eventually was thrown off.
> Just when things could not possibly get worse, my foot gets caught in the
> stirrup. When this happened, I fell head first to the ground.My head
> continued to bounce harder as the horse did not stop or even slow down. Just
> as I was giving up hope and starting to lose consciousness, the Wal-Mart
> manager came out and unplugged it.
> Thank God for heroes.
> 
>
> -
> Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com
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>

[Texascavers] ICS Related

[Don Cooper]

I would be interested in knowing how many volunteers at ICS took time off of
their jobs with no vacation compensation
(they forsake income) to attend ICS?
Unemployment does not count.

-WaV

Re: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories

[Don Arburn]

He's not the only pack rocker out there.

On Jul 31, 2009, at 12:06 PM, Nico Escamilla wrote:


Bill's just bluffing.. Do not leave your pack unattended near him

Nico

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:57 AM, Louise Power > wrote:

Yeah, right. Does anybody really believe this?

> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 07:43:09 -0400

> From: speleoste...@tx.rr.com
> To: wo...@justfamily.org
> CC: texascavers@texascavers.com; jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net; markageetxca...@yahoo.com 
; fh...@townandcountryins.com; fr...@frankbinney.com; germa...@aol.com


> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
>
> Ok, all y'all can relax now. I've quit rocking packs. The pinnacle  
of my rockin' career was Frank Binney
> last week and James Brown this week. I'm going to quit now. So,  
you don't need to guard your packs. Don't

> practice "rock paranoia" in other words.
>
> Bill
>
>  Charles Goldsmith  wrote:
> > I dunno if he found it or not, he didn't say anything.
> >
> > I'm making a mental note, never to leave any bags unattended  
around Mr. Steele.

> >
> > Charles
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 9:30 PM,  wrote:
> > > Ok, I'll do it. I rocked James Brown last night at the grotto  
meeting. I even told him I was going to. I placed two decoy rocks  
and a well hidden rock in a pack he had left at our house. He  
probably found the decoys and didn't look hard enough to find the  
third one. Tee hee.

> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > >
> > >  mark gee  wrote:
> > >> I to have been Stoned by Steele. I wander who holds the  
record for , most people they have rocked. A story needs to be  
writen for the Caver. Bill , why dont you tell us of your rocky  
memories. Puns Excepted

> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 
> > > From: "germa...@aol.com" 
> > > To: jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net; wo...@justfamily.org; fr...@frankbinney.com 
; fh...@townandcountryins.com

> > > Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:44:06 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
> > >
> > >
> > > He's not the only one who does this!  I've been a victim as  
well, but since I collect rocks, it really wasn't a bad thing!

> > >
> > > julia
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: John P Brooks 
> > > To: Charles Goldsmith ; Frank Binney >; Fritz Holt 

> > > Cc: Texas Cavers 
> > > Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2009 12:39 pm
> > > Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
> > >
> > >
> > > LOL..Lesson learned once againNEVER LEAVE your back  
pack ALONE with Bill Steele for even a NANO-SECONDor you WILL  
end up with a rock in your pack.

> > >
> > > Thats like one of the "TEN COMMANDMENTS of CAVING" Thou  
shalt not trusteth thine pack to the Man O Steele...

> > >
> > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Fritz Holt   
wrote:

> > >
> > >
> > >>From: Fritz Holt 
> > >>Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
> > >>To: "Charles Goldsmith" , "Frank Binney"  


> > >>Cc: "Texas Cavers" 
> > >>Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:20 PM
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Bill Steele has told similar stories and is famous for this.  
You were just one of the "fortunate" recipients.

> > >>Fritz
> > >>
> > >>-Original Message-
> > >>From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org]
> > >>Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:34 AM
> > >>To: Frank Binney
> > >>Cc: Texas Cavers
> > >>Subject: [Texascavers] Re: ICS Amazing Backpack Stories
> > >>
> > >>And how long have you known Bill?  Caved with him?
> > >>
> > >>Really cool story about the Grand Canyon and your pack though.
> > >>
> > >>Charles
> > >>
> > >>On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Frank Binney> wrote:
> > >>> On 7/29/09 8:46 PM, "Charles Goldsmith"  
 wrote:

> > >>>
> >  So Frank, what's this I hear about you and your extra big  
backpack?

> > 
> > >>> Actually I had two amazing backpack experiences at ICS:
> > >>>
> > >>> 1) Back in the early 1970s I visited a multiple entrance  
cave in the
> > >>> Grand Canyon. Technical climbing was required to reach the  
entrances,
> > >>> and wetsuits were required to negotiate the stream passage  
deeper
> > >>> inside the cave (which, by the way, had been mapped by Rune  
and other

> > >>> Texas cavers back in the 1960s).
> > >>> We entered by way of a dry upper entrance, where I stashed the
> > >>> brand-new expensive backpack I had used to transport the  
wetsuits,
> > >>> rope and climbing gear. Twelve hours later, exhausted from  
pushing
> > >>> tight leads deep in the cave, we decided to save time by  
rappelling
> > >>> down to the Colorado River by way of a lower, wet entrance.  
As dawn
> > >>> light began to illuminate the Grand Canyon, we pushed off  
down stream
> > >>> in our oar raft and it was shortly thereafter I realized my  
expensive

> > >>> new backpack remained in that upper entrance.
> > >>> Over the next 35 years, especially when I passed below those  
cave
> > >>> entrances on numerous Grand Canyon raft trips,

Re: [Texascavers] New sinkhole collapse in west Texas :

[Don Cooper]

That's kindof like saying "we don't know what caused this grassfire -
incidentally, there's a kid over there playing with matches".

-WaV

On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 7:37 AM, Bill Bentley  wrote:

>  This story has has been covered by all 3 of the local network news. I
> find it most interesting  when they say Experts don't know why this happens
> and in the finishing sentence of the news story they comment on how it is
> near an injection well.
>
> Bill
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* jerryat...@aol.com
> *To:* Texascavers@texascavers.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:43 AM
> *Subject:* [Texascavers] New sinkhole collapse in west Texas :
>
> *Giant Sinkhole Collapses Near Denver City
>
> *Eddie Garcia
> CBS 7 News
> July 28, 2009
>
> Denver City, Texas - A giant geographical phenomenon has opened up just two
> miles northeast of Denver City.
>
> The enormous sink hole opened up just last night and is on Occidental
> Permian Inc. property. Company officials would not allow us near the site
> but did provide us with aerial photos. It is a sinkhole 70 yards long almost
> 70 yards wide and about 50 feet deep. Permian Occidental says all the wells
> in the area have been shut-in as a precaution. So far no injuries are being
> reported or any impacts outside the immediate vicinity of the hole. Local
> and state authorities have been notified and are now working with Occidental
> crews. Right now an independent fire and safety company is on location and
> the entire area is secured.
> http://www.cbs7kosa.com/news/details.asp?ID=14003
>
> Video of the sink at:
> http://permianbasin360.com/content/fulltext/?cid=47132
>
> *State probing new area sinkhole* By Joshua Hull | AVALANCHE-JOURNAL
>
> *Thursday, July 30, 2009*
> Story last updated at 7/30/2009 - 1:31 am
>
> State officials are investigating what caused a large sinkhole to suddenly
> appear earlier this week in an oil field near Denver City.
>
> The sinkhole, measured at 76 feet by 70 feet and 48 feet deep, was
> discovered by a worker late Monday on oil and gas land owned by Occidental
> Permian Limited, said Stacie Fowler with the Texas Railroad Commission.
> No one was injured when the ground collapsed, and one well of 1,750 at the
> field was damaged by the collapse, Fowler said. Some wells in the vicinity
> have been temporarily shut down.
>
> "We make sure more damage doesn't happen as best we can," she said, adding
> no cause has yet been determined.
>
> Sinkholes are a more common occurrence in East Texas and can be caused by
> several different factors, said Mike Turco, chief of the Gulf Coast Office
> for the U.S. Geological Survey.
>
> Oil and gas operations are known to cause sinkholes, Turco said, which
> might explain the unusual location of the collapse less than a mile east of
> Denver City.
>
> "During normal times, there is a fluid or a substance holding up whatever
> is above," he said. "If that is extracted the pressure is reduced and there
> can be a surface feature after a collapse."
>
> Much larger sinkholes appeared in the early 1980s near Wink - about 100
> miles southwest of Denver City - also near oil and gas operations.
>
> Sinkholes have to be treated with care, Turco said, as each case is
> different from the next. While all features share some similarities, there's
> no way to tell whether the collapse will expand without further examination.
>
> "It depends on what the rocks are underneath the sinkhole and what caused
> the sinkhole," he said. "Typically, once they express themselves after their
> initial expansion they don't get much larger."
>
> http://lubbockonline.com/stories/073009/loc_472749121.shtml  Lubbock
> Avalanche-Journal
> Giant Denver City sinkhole collapses
>
> *Posted: Jul 29, 2009 9:26 AM CDT **Wednesday, July 29, 2009 10:26 AM EST*
>
> DENVER CITY, TX (KCBD) - A giant sinkhole has been discovered just outside
> of Denver City, Texas.
>
> According to Occidental Permian Ltd., at approximately 11:00 p.m. on
> Monday, July 27th, the sinkhole was discovered 2 miles northeast of Denver
> City, on Occidental property. An independent fire and safety company is on
> location and the area is secured. Wells in the area have been shut-in as a
> precaution. The sinkhole is approximately 70 yards long, 67 yards wide and
> 16 yards deep. Occidental personnel reports that there are no injuries to
> employees, and no injuries or other impacts outside the immediate vicinity
> around the hole. Oxy has notified the appropriate local and state
> authorities, and will continue to cooperate fully with them. NewsChannel 11
> will be following this story and will bring you any updates as they become
> available.
>
> http://www.kcbd.com/Global/story.asp?S=10810491
>
> --
> Hot Deals at Dell on Popular Laptops perfect for Back to 
> School
>
>

Re: [Texascavers] Photo Box Project

[Don Cooper]

Ernie -

Are you interested in getting copies of pics made by those of us who took
our own?

-WaV

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Ernest Garza  wrote:

> The decision to take the box to ICS was a good one. Many folks used it to
> make their own pictures, I shot a bunch more. Thanks to all who posed. The
> highlight was doing a photo of Jeanne Gurnee in the box. Also Vance and
> Marjorie Nelson--she is Bill Stevenson's daughter; he was one of the
> founding members of the NSS, and had a low number-#3. Dave Bunnell and I
> shot some stunning night pictures--a whole new direction for the box photos.
>
> --Ernie Garza
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
>

Re: [Texascavers] lost item at loud camp

[Don Cooper]

I think we need a scapegoat.  That would be the individual who crashed the
event without registering and bragged about it.  Passed out drunk in the hot
tub area, he threw beer on Michelle and Ellie when they tried to help him.
He stole Ara's (Lady from New Mexico) badge and wouldn't be surprising if
that's also what happened to other assorted items.

-WaV

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 11:45 AM, Stefan Creaser wrote:

>  Nah, it was probably a goose, a chicken or duck would have been too small
> to cart it away.
>
> On a more serious note, what happened to all the stuff in Lost & Found?  My
> MSR camping stove went walkies from outside my tent in the loud camp over
> Saturday night, perhaps it ended up there…
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stefan
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Louise Power [mailto:power_lou...@hotmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:30 AM
> *To:* David Locklear; Texas Cavers
> *Subject:* RE: [Texascavers] lost item at loud camp
>
>
>
> David said:
>
> "some fowl play might have been involved."
>
> Do you think a chicken or a duck stole your mattress pad?
>
> Jokingly,
>
> Louise
>
>
>   --
>
> IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the
> contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the
> information in any medium.  Thank you.
>

Re: [Texascavers] What it TAKES -- You got it... ICS TEXAS!

[Don Arburn]

Ann Scott and I are finally done!

I love Texas Cavers!

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Re: [Texascavers] ICS

[Don Arburn]

And great THANKS to Denise and Dale for which without we could not  
have done what needed to be done. You guys are the real HEROES!!



Don's iPhone.

On Jul 27, 2009, at 12:37 PM, Denise P  wrote:

Wow, what a great convention! I had a blast. It seemed to come  
together despite fears of chaos and terrible heat. I think everyone  
was impressed and had a wonderful time. Great job, George Veni! And  
I know there were tons of people who spent all their convention time  
volunteering, but I'd like to give a shout out to the transportation  
coordinators, Don Arburn and Ann Scott, and the caving trip  
coordinator, Travis Scott, as I personally observed their trials,  
travails, and round-the-clock hard work. And to the Terminal  
Syphons, who volunteered so much time and sounded especially great  
this year. Four hours of rocking without a break!


Geat job folks

Cheers,
Denise


Bing™ brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Tr 
y it now.

Re: [Texascavers] Logan Library clean-up report

[Don Cooper]

David - I would have stayed, but I was on-schedule to take another van back
to San Antonio.
I think you're also part of the group doing the next run at 6:30p.
-WaV

On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 1:51 PM, David  wrote:

> A small group of very hard-working people led by Rune Burnet cleaned
> the libary after ICS.
>
> His team included Susan Souby, Rene Sheilds, Gary Napper, Orion Knox,
> and Don Cooper.
>
> Others, including myself, chipped in.   Kim Flieshman ?  Dave Lester.
>
> The labor involved disassembling a giant wall made out of 2x4's and about
> 40 heavy sheets of 4x8 OSB board.
>
> All of this had to be hand-carried out to Burnet's trailer, because the
> libary
> did not have a loading dock.
>
> Eventually, enough volunteers showed up, but then we didn't have enough
> cordless drills to work efficiently.
>
> Meanwhile, Jim Kennedy worked to try to organize the maps and medals
> for the cavers to collect.  After several hours of doing that solo, he
> eventually packed up and left.
>
> Also, in the background, the Shrewsbury's were packing up the artwork
> for the art salon.  The UPS office was closed, so it was decided
> to entrust about $ 1 million dollars worth of artwork to me, and to put
> in my van in hopes that I would drop it off at a UPS store.   ( I will post
> a story about that later. )
>
> After loading all the heavy wood on the trailer, a Colorado caver showed up
> to buy it for the 2011 convention, so some of it had to be off-loaded onto
> his truck.  It would have been convenient if he could have come by an
> hour
> sooner.
>
> Afterwards, only 4 cavers stayed to clean the libary:
>
> Orion Knox, Rene Shields and Susan Souby and myself.
>
> I walked the library and could not find anything else that could be done
> without the instruction of the campus personnel.
>
> The facility, in my opinion, is ready to open back up to public visitors.
> There are quite a few wood shavings in the carpet that the janitor will
> have fun vacuuming up. I am sure the librarian will have to re-arrange
> the
> furniture.  But I don't see how they can complain about how cavers
> left their library.
>
> About 4 cavers are still using the internet, but other than that the
> building
> is empty.
>
> There is a box of art supplies ( Karen Veni ?? or Conrad Schriener ?? )
> sitting on the back porch along with a tire to an offroad vehicle.
>
> David Locklear
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
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>
>

Re: [Texascavers] I'd like to help....

[Don Cooper]

Frustrating  when you ARE one already.  You can only do what you're doing
while your doing it - you can't do it more than you already are!!!

-WaV

On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Lyndon Tiu  wrote:

> On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:05:16 -0500 mmay...@gmail.com wrote:
> > ...EVERYONE helping out with ICS is INCREDIBLE and I'd knife-fight anyone
> > to the death that would detract from their efforts
> >
>
> We are nowhere near that.
>
> We need van drivers for cave trips.
>
> We need van drivers for the hotel shuttles.
>
> we need van drivers for the airport shuttles.
>
> We need van drivers for the evening events.
>
> --
> Lyndon Tiu
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
>

Re: [ot_caving] Re: computer question

[Don Cooper]

You can usually find one that advertises that it contains bearings.  Buy
that.
Otherwise you'll get something that relies on a tiny plastic bushing -
guaranteed to wear out in a full year of continuous operation.  (NOT FOR
SERVERS!)
Most either have a two pin connector to plug directly into the mobo - others
have a third pin which give the mobo a feedback pulse that allows indication
of the fan's rpm.
Alternately, some accessory fans have a 4 pin connector which fit inline
with your hard drive power connector.

=WaV

On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 10:16 PM, Mike Flannigan  wrote:

>
> Those fans need to be replaced ever so often.  When
> they starting making noise, that is a good time to
> replace them.  The cost is usually $6 - $18.  It's
> best not to buy the cheap ones.  I've never replaced
> one on the CPU, but I've replaced the one on the
> case 3-4 times.  Usually I have to get out my soldering
> iron to get the job done.
>
>
> Mike
>
>
> On Sun, 12 Jul 2009, pitboun...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >All
> >
> >About a week ago I opened up my computer cabinet to blow some of the dirt
> that makes its way in, I put it back together
> >and now everytime I start it the fan that pulls air out of the cpu starts
> spinning like crazy making a buzzing noise... checked on BIOS and supposedly
> the inside temperature of my computer is 91 celsius (thats nine below water
> boiling point) I dont know much about computers so I asked a friend, he said
> the temp sensor could be bad, but didnt know where that was located..
> anybody have an idea as to where the temp sensor is, or what else could be
> causing this?
> >
> >thanks for any and all help
> >
> >Nico
>
> -
> Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com
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>
>

Re: [Texascavers] ICS

[Don Arburn]

What Golf Cart?

On Jul 13, 2009, at 7:47 PM, Lyndon Tiu wrote:


Don Arburn wrote:

Volunteers get to say they did. I'm good with that.


I volunteered to pick up cute caver chicks. I could do that in the  
golf cart.


--
Lyndon Tiu

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Re: [Texascavers] ICS

[Don Arburn]

What golf cart?

On Jul 13, 2009, at 7:39 PM, Joe Ranzau wrote:


I'm doing it for the golf cart!

On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 7:39 PM, Don Arburn  wrote:
Volunteers get to say they did. I'm good with that.

On Jul 13, 2009, at 7:28 PM, Jon wrote:


So how much time should a volunteer put in to get a free pass?
One day work?  But want about those that have worked for a week?
But then there is the person that did help that afternoon with all  
that tot-and-carry.
shouldn't they also get a free pass?  Or maybe if you are just an  
officer like a sec or president?  Maybe it should be folks that put  
in a lot of hard work, or maybe not.  maybe those that put in long  
hours and didn't sweat?  It gets so hard to draw that line.  I  
wouldn't want to point to one and say you pay and the other and say  
your free.

We all pay but then some get to be called "Volunteers".


--- On Mon, 7/13/09, Travis Scott  wrote:

From: Travis Scott 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] ICS
To:
Cc: "Cavers, Texas" 
Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 8:34 AM

Everyone, just to make it clear and ease any unnecessary  
frustration, the volunteers that are using this "special  
registration" are only allowed to assist in leading trips, or  
whatever they have volunteered to do.  They do not get to go to the  
parties, talks, and other events that the paying folk will get to  
enjoy.  So don't feel like they are "getting a free ride" into the  
ICS, they are very limited on what they can do.


  They were given the registration to cover them under ICS  
insurance so that they could help us lead the trips.  In fact,  
without these people, there would be half of the caving trips that  
we have offered.  So if you pay the $15 and go caving, chances are  
that the trip you are on is ONLY possible because of some of these  
volunteers, so be thankful!  They are playing a large role in the  
ICS that many of the paid people aren't willing or able to do.


Travis

Don Cooper wrote:


Yeah, well maybe we should, but we're not.   Perhaps I could have  
volunteered through the whole thing and not registered, but not  
with my head held high.  Not when so many others HAVE paid  
essentially to work for free.


-WaV

On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 8:48 PM, Lyndon Tiu   
wrote:
They should be registering--and paying. No free ride here, boy  
howdy.



I don't think anyone is getting a free ride, they are helping the  
ICS but are NOT getting any of the benefits of a paid ICS  
registration (parties, free beer, banquets, etc.).


We should be glad they are giving some of their time to help the  
ICS for free.


FYI: I am registered (I paid my $200 back in Dec 2008) ... but I  
think volunteers should get a free ride. But that's totally my  
opinion.




On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 7:30 PM, Lyndon Tiu mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca 
>> wrote:


   Plus the many Texas cavers who are volunteering (cave trip
   leaders/van drivers/Aggies) but are not registering. They count  
too.



--
Lyndon Tiu

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--
Travis Scott
979.450.0103 Cell
tra...@oztotl.com
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Re: [Texascavers] ICS

[Don Arburn]

Volunteers get to say they did. I'm good with that.

On Jul 13, 2009, at 7:28 PM, Jon wrote:


So how much time should a volunteer put in to get a free pass?
One day work?  But want about those that have worked for a week?
But then there is the person that did help that afternoon with all  
that tot-and-carry.
shouldn't they also get a free pass?  Or maybe if you are just an  
officer like a sec or president?  Maybe it should be folks that put  
in a lot of hard work, or maybe not.  maybe those that put in long  
hours and didn't sweat?  It gets so hard to draw that line.  I  
wouldn't want to point to one and say you pay and the other and say  
your free.

We all pay but then some get to be called "Volunteers".


--- On Mon, 7/13/09, Travis Scott  wrote:

From: Travis Scott 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] ICS
To:
Cc: "Cavers, Texas" 
Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 8:34 AM

Everyone, just to make it clear and ease any unnecessary  
frustration, the volunteers that are using this "special  
registration" are only allowed to assist in leading trips, or  
whatever they have volunteered to do.  They do not get to go to the  
parties, talks, and other events that the paying folk will get to  
enjoy.  So don't feel like they are "getting a free ride" into the  
ICS, they are very limited on what they can do.


  They were given the registration to cover them under ICS insurance  
so that they could help us lead the trips.  In fact, without these  
people, there would be half of the caving trips that we have  
offered.  So if you pay the $15 and go caving, chances are that the  
trip you are on is ONLY possible because of some of these  
volunteers, so be thankful!  They are playing a large role in the  
ICS that many of the paid people aren't willing or able to do.


Travis

Don Cooper wrote:


Yeah, well maybe we should, but we're not.   Perhaps I could have  
volunteered through the whole thing and not registered, but not  
with my head held high.  Not when so many others HAVE paid  
essentially to work for free.


-WaV

On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 8:48 PM, Lyndon Tiu   
wrote:

They should be registering--and paying. No free ride here, boy howdy.


I don't think anyone is getting a free ride, they are helping the  
ICS but are NOT getting any of the benefits of a paid ICS  
registration (parties, free beer, banquets, etc.).


We should be glad they are giving some of their time to help the  
ICS for free.


FYI: I am registered (I paid my $200 back in Dec 2008) ... but I  
think volunteers should get a free ride. But that's totally my  
opinion.




On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 7:30 PM, Lyndon Tiu mailto:l...@alumni.sfu.ca 
>> wrote:


   Plus the many Texas cavers who are volunteering (cave trip
   leaders/van drivers/Aggies) but are not registering. They count  
too.



--
Lyndon Tiu

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979.450.0103 Cell
tra...@oztotl.com
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[Texascavers] [ICS] [Driver's Still Needed!]

[Don Arburn]

https://webspace.utexas.edu/ascott65/www/icsdrivers.htm

---

Don Arburn
Transportation Coordinator
2009 15th Annual International Congress of Speleology
NSS #56822RL
Mobile #361-362-3677
donarb...@mac.com


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Re: [Texascavers] ICS

[Don Cooper]

Yeah, well maybe we should, but we're not.   Perhaps I could have
volunteered through the whole thing and not registered, but not with my head
held high.  Not when so many others HAVE paid essentially to work for free.


-WaV

On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 8:48 PM, Lyndon Tiu  wrote:

> They should be registering--and paying. No free ride here, boy howdy.
>>
>
>
> I don't think anyone is getting a free ride, they are helping the ICS but
> are NOT getting any of the benefits of a paid ICS registration (parties,
> free beer, banquets, etc.).
>
> We should be glad they are giving some of their time to help the ICS for
> free.
>
> FYI: I am registered (I paid my $200 back in Dec 2008) ... but I think
> volunteers should get a free ride. But that's totally my opinion.
>
>
>
>  On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 7:30 PM, Lyndon Tiu > l...@alumni.sfu.ca>> wrote:
>>
>>Plus the many Texas cavers who are volunteering (cave trip
>>leaders/van drivers/Aggies) but are not registering. They count too.
>>
>>
> --
> Lyndon Tiu
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
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>

[Texascavers] [ICS] [Current Driver Schedule]

[Don Arburn]

I need to fill the pink slots on the chart. Note that Event Nights - 
Thursday, Friday, Saturday- need the most drivers. Volunteer drivers  
on these nights will not miss anything by helping.


If I don't get drivers, there's a decent chance you'll be grabbed,  
Press Gang style, and put in a driver's seat anyway.


https://webspace.utexas.edu/ascott65/www/icsdrivers.htm

Please pass this on to any other listserves you can, thanks!

If you have already volunteered (kudos!) check the schedule for  
mistakes.


Thanks again!
---

Don Arburn
Transportation Coordinator
2009 15th Annual
International Congress of Speleology
donarb...@mac.com
NSS# 56822RL
Mobile#361-362-3677

Re: [Texascavers] my cave

[Don Arburn]

See Alice.

On Jul 6, 2009, at 9:52 PM, Nico Escamilla wrote:

A certain blue pill can help with that better than volunteers I  
believe.

hahaha sorry Bill, couldnt help it


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Re: [Texascavers] my cave

[Don Arburn]

Wow.

On Jul 6, 2009, at 9:34 PM, Mixon Bill wrote:


 I'll be looking for volunteers to help me with my erection.
 -- Mixon



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[Texascavers] [ICS] [Events]

[Don Arburn]

O.K. Cavers, time to lend a hand. Time to show we work as a team. Time  
to show some Texas hospitality.


During the ICS there are 3 functions, off campus, that we ALL want to  
attend, especially our wonderful guests. The Photo Salon, The ICS  
Banquet and the NSS Banquet.


I have 32 fifteen passenger vans for these events. And they need  
drivers.


I'm not asking anyone to miss these events, they won't begin until  
everyone is there. I'm AM asking you to take 14 guests with you, as  
you drive a van to these events. Four times. You need to have a valid  
Driver's license and be 25 years old, thats it! You don't even need to  
be registered for the ICS.


Thursday, Friday and Saturday evenings are going to wonderful events,  
BUT NOT WITHOUT YOUR HELP.


Many of you are already overwhelmed by jobs they volunteered for, I  
completely understand. However I'm fairly certain everyone is going to  
attend these functions, and everyone needs to get there. So unless you  
want to stand in line on campus while I drive one van back and forth  
114 times to take everyone to Air Hall or Cailloux Theater and  
Playhouse, you need to step up and help out.


If you feel you can't help, please give George Veni, or any ICS OC  
staff, a call and explain yourself.


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Re: [Texascavers] ICS Driver Volunteers II

[Don Cooper]

Yeah - how to do a killfile on gmail

On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 7:39 PM, David  wrote:

> I am just curious about what liability the volunteer faces when
> volunteering
> only to drive a rental vehicle from point A to B ?
>
> Are they legally responsible for the van in any way?
>
> What if they wreck?What if they are at fault ?
>
> What if another driver wrecks ?
>
> What if the van gets stolen ?
>
> What if the van gets pulled over by the police and one of the passengers
> says something to arise suspicion leading to the van being impounded ?
>
> Did I leave out anything ?
>
> -
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>
>

[Texascavers] ICS Driver Volunteers II

[Don Arburn]

Who will step up and be an afternoon driver for the Hotel Shuttle for  
the week?


Who will step up and help return vans on the 26th and 27th?

Who will help drive a van, multiple times, to the Photo Salon and the  
banquets on Thursday, Friday and Saturday Evenings?


Please?

Thanks!



---

Don Arburn
Transportation Coordinator
2009 15th Annual
International Congress of Speleology
donarb...@mac.com
NSS# 56822RL
Mobile#361-362-3677


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Re: [Texascavers] Bats' Fountain of Youth

[Don Cooper]

Gerald Weissmann, M.D., Editor-in-Chief of The FASEB Journal.(:) "As it
turns out, one of these bat species lives out its long life in
Florida.*Since bats are rodents with wings
*,...

I am not confident this person really knows anything about bats.
-WaV

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Minton, Mark  wrote:

>Bats may hold the key to longer life.  <
> http://www.rdmag.com/ShowPR~PUBCODE~014~ACCT~140101~ISSUE~0907~RELTYPE~LST~PRODCODE~~PRODLETT~K.html
> >
>
>
>
> Mark Minton
>
>
>
> *Do bats hold the "Fountain the Youth"?*
>
>
>
> July 1, 2009
>
> Scientists from Texas are batty over a new discovery which could lead to
> the single most important medical breakthrough in human
> history—significantly longer lifespans. The discovery, featured on the cover
> of the July 2009 print issue of The FASEB Journal shows that proper protein
> folding over time in long-lived bats explains why they live significantly
> longer than other mammals of comparable size, such as mice.
>
> "Ultimately we are trying to discover what underlying mechanisms allow for
> some animal species to live a very long time with the hope that we might be
> able to develop therapies that allow people to age more slowly," said Asish
> Chaudhuri, Professor of Biochemistry, VA Medical Center, San Antonio, Texas
> and the senior researcher involved in the work.
>
> Asish and colleagues made their discovery by extracting proteins from the
> livers of two long-lived bat species (Tadarida brasiliensis and Myotis
> velifer) and young adult mice and exposed them to chemicals known to cause
> protein misfolding. After examining the proteins, the scientists found that
> the bat proteins exhibited less damage than those of the mice, indicating
> that bats have a mechanism for maintaining proper structure under extreme
> stress.
>
> "Maybe Juan Ponce De León wasn't too far off the mark when he searched
> Florida for the Fountain of Youth," said Gerald Weissmann, M.D.,
> Editor-in-Chief of The FASEB Journal. "As it turns out, one of these bat
> species lives out its long life in Florida. Since bats are rodents with
> wings, this chemical clue as to why bats beat out mice in the aging game
> should point scientists to the source of this elusive fountain."
>
> Study Abstract 
>
> SOURCE: Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology
> - Visit
> our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail:
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[Texascavers] ICS Driver Volunteers

[Don Arburn]

This email is to A) inform folks that Saturday July 18 is Van Pickup  
Day at Capps and Enterprise and

B) request from drivers the times they can drive.

I realize many of you have informed me of your requested volunteer  
times already, however many things have changed for some of you, and  
me as well. Please re-iterate and remind me of your desired driving  
times and dates.


A) First is the Van Pickup Day. On Saturday July 18, 18 Vans will be  
picked up from Capps near the San Antonio Airport. 4 Vans are being  
picked up by other volunteers for their own use to move equipment to  
Kerrville and 3 vans are being picked up by San Antonio Airport  
Shuttle volunteers for use between the Airport and Kerrville for  
airport arrival guests.  That leaves 11 Vans from Capps and 4 vans  
From Enterprise. I am in charge of retrieving the Capps Vans and Don  
Broussard is in charge of retrieving Enterprise Vans. I need 10  
volunteers to pick up Vans at Capps. Don B. will need three or four  
for his vans. Contact Don B., to help him, at don.brouss...@att.net


The times of the Van pickups is flexible that day. However I will be  
taking a Van from Kerrville that morning, with any available drivers  
already in Kerrville, and heading to Capps in San Antonio first thing  
Saturday. The 11 vans will be picked up, driven to the Airport to pick  
up any travelers and head to Kerrville and dropped at the motor pool.  
This IS in addition to the Airport Shuttles already doing the Airport  
run, this is just a matter of assisting them, and it's on the way.  
Details to be announced later.


Who can help me with this?

I need ten people over 25 years of age.

Sunday July 26 and Monday July 27 these vans need to be returned from  
Kerrville to San Antonio. Each day will be about 15 vans, give or take.


Who can help me with this?

Don Broussard needs folks to help him pick up 4 Vans from Enterprise,  
located at 1505 Harry Wurzbach near the Fort Sam Houston National  
Cemetery in San Antonio and take them to Kerrville that same day.


Who can help with this? These need to be returned Monday the 27 as well.


B) I need to know WHEN you are available, SPECIFICALLY, to help for  
trips. Most Caving trips have drivers already, however there are  
several Cultural trips needing drivers as well.


I will begin assigning drivers to vans ASAP. Please get ahold of me NOW.

Thanks for your help, it will be fun!

My mobile and primary phone number is (361) 362-3677

---

Don Arburn
donarb...@mac.com
2009 15th International
Congress of Speleology
Transportation Coordinator
NSS# 56822RL

[ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] Kerrville and canoe related

[Don Cooper]

Are you bringing a canoe or kayak, David?

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 6:27 PM, David  wrote:

> In downtown Kerrville, there is a bridge project over the Guadalupe
> River at Louise Hays Park.
>
> This has completely closed the river off and there are signs and
> construction fencing around the
> project telling people they will be fined if they enter the project area.
>
> Here is the TXDOT notice for anyone wishing to canoe or kayak in the area.
>
>
> There are two channels beneath the bridge.  The north channel is
> "closed" and will remain closed for another
> month or two.  The south channel is open, and will remain open.
> We ( TXDOT ) have a floating boom stretched across the channel,
> but it should be easily traversed by either kayaks or canoes.
>  It is very similar to the device that is used to separate lanes
> in a swimming pool, and it is use to try
>  to ensure that we do not contaminate the river.
>
>
> The channels he is referring to are separated by the upstream tip of
> Tranquility Island.That is the
> island in the middle of the park where, people just walk around and
> admire the cypress trees along
> the bank.
>
>
> http://www.bigrigtravels.com/gallery/6448819_waGgf/1/408715182_EF3DP/Medium
>
> David Locklear
>
>
> Related news:
>
> Be careful swimming there, as they had a drowning last week.
>
>
> http://www.kens5.com/news/stories/KENS20090623-KerrvilleDrowning.1c68829c.html
>
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>
>

[ot_caving] Super computers from CRAY

[Don Cooper]

I seem to remember someone going on about Cray and maybe how they weren't
around anymore.
Here: http://www.cray.com/xt/istanbul/
-WaV

Re: [Texascavers] WNS

[Don Cooper]

No, David.
Ambient average cave temps in Texas are below 75 degrees.
Bats are not big consumers of Honey Creek either.
Spores easily survive temps above and beyond typical exposure temperature.
-cd

On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 11:02 PM, David  wrote:

> Since the fungus is dormant above 75 degrees, then many Texas bat
> caves should be o.k.
> to visit.Right ?
>
> If someone enters the shaft at Honeycreek and exits at the small wet
> entrance, how could
> they possibly transmit WNS to any bats roosting in the dry entrance ?
>  Any WNS on them
> would  have been washed off.
>
> If a Texas bat had the fungus but left the cave to eat ( where the
> temperature is 100 degrees )
> that would kill the fungus.   Right ?
>
> Did anybody see the news-story about American crops being destroyed by WNS
> ?
> I think it was a tabloid story in Israel.
>
> Have any new cases of WNS been found in the past month ?
>
> I bet if you leave your caving gear out in the 100 degree sun for
> about an hour, that will
> be all the decon you will need.
>
> David Locklear
>
> -
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>

[Texascavers] Terminal Siphons

[Don Cooper]

I'm looking for a tape of previous performances.
Please contact
-WaV

Re: [Texascavers] TSA Members Area Update - More TC's Are Now Online!

[Don Arburn]

Do you not realize you are doing the very thing you complained about,  
over and over!? Let it go.


On May 15, 2009, at 2:06 PM, Jules Jenkins wrote:


DELETE

--- On Fri, 5/15/09, Fofo  wrote:

From: Fofo 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TSA Members Area Update - More TC's Are  
Now Online!

To: "texascavers" 
Date: Friday, May 15, 2009, 6:47 PM

No, actually, I like very much the list the way it is and how  
Charles manages it.


The "delete" key is your friend.

 - Fofo

Jules Jenkins wrote:
> trust me, if there are 50 junk, complainy cave tex emails I DELETE  
them all.  But, why should I have to spend so much time deleting  
junk, ridiculous responses not meant for all or NON cave topic emails.
> Perhaps, Charles, you should be more proactive and NOT the  
"normally quiet list administrator"

>
> I suspect many, many folks on the cave tex listserv feel similarly  
and also know how to delete emails!

>
> --- On *Thu, 5/14/09, Charles Goldsmith //*  
wrote:

>
>
> From: Charles Goldsmith 
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TSA Members Area Update - More TC's  
Are

> Now Online!
> To: "Texas Cavers List" 
> Date: Thursday, May 14, 2009, 11:16 PM
>
> While this is a hot topic, and it's ok to disagree with anyone's
> opinion on this, it is unnecessary to jump on anyone for  
speaking
> their opinion.  If you don't like a posting on here, a simple  
tap of

> the delete key takes care of the problem.
>
> Everyone needs to learn that trick, it makes the internet so  
much nicer.

>
> Charles, the normally quiet list administrator
>
>  
-

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> 
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h...@texascavers.com

> 
>
>

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Re: [Texascavers] TSA Members Area Update - More TC's Are Now Online!

[Don Arburn]

Charles, you are doing a bang up job! Thank you.

Don

Re: [Texascavers] TSA Members Area Update - More TC's Are Now Online!

[Don Arburn]

Really, one mistake, does not a hissy fit make.

Don

On May 14, 2009, at 6:10 PM, jran...@gmail.com wrote:


really, do we all need to have to read your email response to Mark?
this is the kind of junk that makes Texas Cavers NOT worth reading.

On May 14, 2009 5:47pm, Jules Jenkins  wrote:
> really, do we all need to have to read your email response to  
Lyndon?

> this is the kind of junk that makes cave tex NOT worth reading.
>
>
> --- On Thu, 5/14/09, mark gee markageetxca...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> From: mark gee markageetxca...@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TSA Members Area Update - More TC's Are  
Now Online!

> To: "Lyndon Tiu" l...@alumni.sfu.ca>, texascavers@texascavers.com
> Date: Thursday, May 14, 2009, 10:44 PM
>
> Yea, give me my paper copy too. Mark Gee  NSS #49625
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Lyndon Tiu l...@alumni.sfu.ca>
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 10:47:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] TSA Members Area Update - More TC's Are  
Now Online!

>
> Quoted from a caver:
> > As I stated before I want both paper and electronic copies, so  
what

> > does
> > that make me? irresponsibly responsible? Or Responsibly  
irresponsible?

>
>
> Quoted from a caver:
> > that if a
> > member does want to receive a hardcopy TxCvr, that they are
> > environmentally or fiscally irresponsible.
>
>
> You can have either the hard copy and/or electronic or you can  
have both. You don't have to feel bad about anything.

>
> So what if someone calls you names. You keep your chin up and give
> them
> the finger.
>
>
> -- Lyndon Tiu
>
>  
-

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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


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[ot_caving] Fwd: another personal update

[Don Cooper]

From: Don Cooper 
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Thu, May 7, 2009 at 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: another personal update
To: David 


Geez dude -

Have you ever ONCE thought that maybe its not so much your boss's fault...

I'm kindof doubting you'd be able to hold MY job for a month.
I too must put up with work which feels completely beneath me - but I have
no immediate alternative - I MUST work, until I find a better one I CANNOT
COMPLAIN, because I have NOT found a better one and I continue to survive
doing something I nearly hate at times and mostly with people that I
wouldn't 'hang out' with even if they were the last on earth.

But somewhere, someone is doing your old job - that exact same job, with a
better attitude, with better results - and maybe for even less money.  Most
significantly, they posses the gullibility that they might be getting a
decent trade for their labor, and as an extra bonus they try to find
interest in everything they do and possibly even "give a shit".

I think you're overdue a major attitude adjustment.
Otherwise you're REALLY going to regret this juncture when you finally come
to your senses.

-WaVy

On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 2:03 PM, David  wrote:

> http://davidsnewjob.blogspot.com/
>

[Texascavers] International Congress of Speleology Shuttle/Van Driver Volunteers

[Don Arburn]

This is a heads up for International Congress of Speleology Shuttle/ 
Van Driver Volunteers. We need trip leaders and shuttle van drivers!  
There are only 11 at this point. Of course more are needed so please  
pass the word! At this point my first order of business and need is  
first thing in the morning on Saturday July 18. This is when vans need  
to be picked up and put into immediate service. Email me if interested  
in helping out, I have a schedule I can share. Pass this on to other  
caving lists!


---

Don Arburn
donarb...@mac.com
2009 15th International
Congress of Speleology
Transportation Coordinator
NSS# 56822RL

Re: [Texascavers] Hangover Cure

[Don Cooper]

H1N1 is absolutely NOT from eating pork.  It should probably not even be
called Swine Flu.
-WaVy

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Fritz Holt wrote:

> At this particular time I am not sure that anyone would want to be handling
> hogs.
> Fritz
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Stefan Creaser [mailto:stefan.crea...@arm.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 3:12 PM
> To: Minton, Mark; txcaver
> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Hangover Cure
>
> Hmm, maybe we need to cure some hog bacon for the morning after at TCR this
> year?  Anyone have any hog sides to donate?
>
> Stefan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Minton, Mark [mailto:mmin...@nmhu.edu]
>
>  Since cavers are known to partake of the occasional drink, you might
> be interested in this scientifically verified cure for a hangover:
> the bacon sandwich.
>  8283/Bacon-sandwich-really-does-cure-a-hangover.html
> >
>
> Mark Minton
>
>
> --
> IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the
> contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the
> information in any medium.  Thank you.
>
>
>
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Re: [Texascavers] GPS Recomendation

[Don Arburn]

I love my Garmin CSX 60

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 24, 2009, at 12:52 PM, Thomas Sitch  wrote:


Dear Friends,

The time has come for me to ask for your help.

The last time I was seriously doing any orienteering was in the  
military, and before that digging through USGS drawers at the local  
sporting goods store hoping to find the topo maps I wanted.


I now find myself starting a business where I need a nice hand held  
GPS, and I obviously want it to do double duty on caving trips and  
karst walks.


I'm looking to spend around $300, but can go higher if there's a  
really good model I should own.


What do you recommend?  Which models have served their owners well,  
and which ones have looked pretty and then broken down with the  
slightest abuse?


My Best Regards,

~~Thomas

Re: [Texascavers] RE: First Trip

[Don Arburn]

I allow them!

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 24, 2009, at 11:13 AM, "Minton, Mark"  wrote:


Terry,

Check out the latest AMCS Photo of the Week, It was taken on the  
first trip to Mexico in November 1962 by TR Evans, Terry Raines,  
James Reddell, and William Russell.


 There was no photo attached to your email.  :-(  However,  
attachments aren't allowed on Texascavers...


Mark

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Re: [Texascavers] Grotto meeting for 4/29

[Don Cooper]

Apologies for unspecific nature of post -
That would be the UT Underground Grotto for Everyone...
-WaV

On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 8:35 PM, R D Milhollin wrote:

> Which grotto are you referring to?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Don Cooper 
> Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 4:12 PM
> To: Cavers, Texas 
> Subject: [Texascavers] Grotto meeting for 4/29
>
> I have a somewhat off-topic speaker arranged for the next grotto meeting,
> but I'm pretty sure that no one will object.
> This should be quite interesting.
> It's been sanctioned by Gary Franklin already and I'm quite stoked about it

[Texascavers] Grotto meeting for 4/29

[Don Cooper]

I have a somewhat off-topic speaker arranged for the next grotto meeting,
but I'm pretty sure that no one will object.
This should be quite interesting.
It's been sanctioned by Gary Franklin already and I'm quite stoked about it.

The speaker has asked me if he can use his own laptop.
I'm pretty sure he can, but I'm just checking.

Thanks
-WaV

Re: [ot_caving] Squeez Bacon

[Don Cooper]

I tried a search for "squeeze sausage" but all I found were porn sites
-WaV

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Charles Goldsmith wrote:

> LOL, click on the link like you are buying it, Thinkgeek does several jokes
> every April 1st :)
>
> You've been fooled
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Louise Power wrote:
>
>>  No, not an April Fool's joke. Comes from thinkgeek.com. Real stuff.
>>
>> --
>> From: wo...@justfamily.org
>> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 16:38:08 -0500
>> To: power_lou...@hotmail.com
>> CC: o...@texascavers.com
>> Subject: Re: [ot_caving] Squeez Bacon
>>
>>
>> It's an april fool's joke :)
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 4:30 PM, Louise Power wrote:
>>
>> Has anybody seen or used Squeez Bacon? Can you get it in the store or does
>> it have to be ordered online? Check out this website.
>>
>> http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/squeez-bacon.html
>>
>>
>>
>

[Texascavers] Chris Thibodeaux

[Don Cooper]

This is a call out to
Chris Thibodeaux -I'd like to get in touch with him, Thankx!

-WaVy

Re: [Texascavers] Travel Advisory for Mexico 2

[Don Arburn]

We just drove to Belize from San Antonio. We weren't a target, too  
many Lexus and Mercedes and Navigators to bother with my dirty old  
Superduty towing a crappy old trooper. Totally uneventful drive.


Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 24, 2009, at 10:10 AM, Gill Ediger   
wrote:



At 11:22 AM 3/16/2009, Geary Schindel wrote:
If you'll be traveling in Mexico, it might be a good idea to take  
some of the contact information located at the bottom of the  
advisory with you.


I didn't read it yet but I just got back from 3 weeks in Mexico  
yesterday. Went in by myself through Laredo in about 10 minutes,  
maybe 12. Got the green light both times. Another 10 or 15 got me  
out of town without being shot by drug lords. Neither went through  
nor saw any checkpoints all the way to Victoria. Did not get stopped  
by cops in Monterrey. Came back via Monterrey, Saltillo, and Piedras  
Negras (requiring many hours in the state of Coahuila, once again  
all alone). Neither went through nor saw any checkpoints that whole  
distance.
   Was stopped by local police 2wice in Saltillo, after dark,  
for bribes but talked (with a good bit of help from Monica) my way  
out of both of them.
   By far the biggest change I've noticed in Mexico in a long  
while is that since all the cops have acquired radar they are very  
intent on enforcing speed limits--especially on main highways  
through small towns. If the sign says 40 km/h, you need to be damned  
near 40 going through there, not 70 mph like everyone used to do.


Now, let me have a look at those advisories.

--Ediger

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Re: [Texascavers] More on Heated Bat Houses for WNS

[Don Cooper]

 > I sortof like the scenario of bats developing into a co-dependent
> relationship with humans - like a parallel of the wolf's transformation
> into dogs - how about "Chiroptera Familiaris?"
>
> Imagine the range of Chihuahua to Great Dane
> applied to flying mammals!
>
> Look - I taught my bat to catch a frisbee!
>
> -Batmanuel

On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 9:07 AM, Minton, Mark  wrote:

>Nancy Weaver said:
>
> >How on earth have bats managed to survive so long without thoughtful
> human intervention?  Or any other part of nature?  Good thing we can now
> remedy nature's poor planning.
>
>   It might not have been nature's poor planning.  No one knows where
> WNS came from.  We don't know if it the fungus associated with WNS is the
> cause of the problem or a symptom, merely taking advantage of bats
> distressed by some other factor.  If something else is weakening bats in the
> first place, it could be something manmade, like a pesticide.  If we caused
> the problem, it is not unreasonable for us to try to remedy it, although
> obviously heated bat houses do not address the root cause, whatever it is.
> For another article on the heated bat houses see <
> http://blogs.discovery.com/news_animal/2009/03/hibernating-cave-bats-receive-heaters.html
> >.
>
> Mark Minton
> - Visit
> our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail:
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[Texascavers] [Found on web] ["Bat Box" Heaters Could Save Animals' Lives]

[Don Arburn]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/03/090305-heaters-save-bats.html?source=rss

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Re: [Texascavers] well rescue in Mexico

[Don Cooper]

WHY does this story "repeat itself"?
In striking similarity - has this not happened at least a couple of other
times in recent years?
-WaV

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Antonio Aguirre Alvarez <
nelfas...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>  Last monday, ppl from the Mexican Red Cross and Espeleo Rescate Mexico
> from San Luis Potosi and Queretaro were called to rescue 6 ppl who died
> inside in a well.
> Two workers were tryng to dry a tunel with a gasoline powered pump. They
> died fast because the CO. The owner and his wife tried to rescue them but
> died too. The emergency groups were called then. So, 3 ppl enter the well. 2
> firefighters and a 1 paramedic from Red Cross. Just 1 fireman scape from the
> inside. The other 2 rescuers died.
> The crew begins to work at tuesday 3am. The rescue was successfull the same
> day at 1600hrs.
> here is a note in english with some inaccuracy:
> http://www.emsresponder.com/article/article.jsp?id=9088&siteSection=1
>
> Soon, ofical report and pics in the ERM web site.
>
> --
> Windows Live™: Life without walls. Check it 
> out.
>

[ot_caving] I DARE you not to laugh...

[Don Cooper]

Turbo Heather - High Performance Radio Controlled Southern
Belle

Love Hurts - Cupid In Real Life 

Colour Me Beautiful - Exercise Guru Jennifer Kenny Get's *Very*
Colorful

Emma's Dilemma - A beginning with a disturbing confession ends with a
sinister plot twist 

Created for the
Savannah College of Art and Design by
The Dandy Dwarves

Re: [Texascavers] The East<--West<--Texas-->East-->The West

[Don Arburn]

WTF is a Shinner!?

On Feb 24, 2009, at 7:19 PM, wa5...@peoplepc.com wrote:

Ah shoot, I'll make it all real simple. If it ain't in Houston,  
then

its a suburb of Houston  ...  ; )   ... anybody got another Shinner?

Later, ~F~



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[ot_caving] It must have been because of Vista O/S...

[Don Cooper]

Microsoft is requesting refund from overpaid severance issued to laid-off
employees:
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE51M60W20090223
(as irony meshes with karma...)
-WaV

Re: [ot_caving] Urine or You're Out - Another Perspective

[Don Cooper]

What strikes me most significantly is how people who've never been poor,
disabled or otherwise challenged can make such broad, sweeping,
self-satisfying judgment calls about such things they know nothing about.
It seems that so many people that call themselves "Christian" have no
problem at all determining which people don't live up to their particular
standards, and therefore do not qualify to be part of the human race.  (I.E.
the complete antithesis of everything  J.C. 'son o God' was said to teach.)
Rather than empathize with the grungy unpleasant-looking people begging for
change at the intersection, it is too easy for many to assume that these
people actually choose to live that way,  But... I don't think ONE of us
would be willing to actually walk in those same shoes, because without what
we have (social, material, financial) - it is impossible to imagine the
nightmare of attaining a decent standard of living after having lost all of
the above.
And there's a whole lot wrong with a society that believes in equal rights,
but "just for those that deserve it".
In this system - ONE strike and you're essentially OUT.  Loose your credit
rating - get into a little trouble with the law - loose your spotless
employment record and THEN see how easy it is to get back on top of the
heap.
So - for those who - in the name of financial expediency, pontificate
ignoring and further disenfranchisement of those who don't follow all the
rules - there should be a special place in hell waiting for them.  (But 'm
an atheist - so I guess karma will suffice).

-WAVY

On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 7:10 PM, Justin Shaw wrote:

> >> THE JOB - URINE TEST
> >> (Whoever wrote this one down deserves a HUGE pat on the back!)
> >>
> >> Like a lot of folks in this state, I have a job. I work, they pay me. I
> >> pay my taxes and the government distributes my taxes as it sees fit. In
> >> order to get that paycheck, I am required to pass a random urine test
> with
> >> which I have no problem. What I do have a problem with is the
> distribution
> >> of my taxes to people who don't have to pass a urine test.
> >> Shouldn't one have to pass a urine test to get a welfare check because I
> >> have to pass one to earn it for them? Please understand, I have no
> problem
> >> with helping people get back on their feet. I do, on the other hand,
> have a
> >> problem with helping someone sitting on their A--, doing drugs, while I
> >> work. . . Can you imagine how much money the state would save if people
> had
> >> to pass a urine test to get a public assistance check?
> >>
> >> I guess we could title that program, 'Urine or You're Out'.
> >>
> >> Pass this along if you agree or simply delete if you don't. Hope you all
> >> will pass it along, though. . Some thing has to change in this country
> --
> >> and soon!!!
> >
> >
>
> --
>
>   Actually, some people do have to subject themselves to this type of
> draconian barbarism to receive much needed assistance. My mother for
> one, who suffers from rather extreme fibromyalgia, and is therefore
> prescribed narcotic medications with extreme side effects including
> permanent liver damage, permanent kidney damage, lack of cognitive
> thought process, an increases in blood pressure - oh lookie, they have
> a drug for her high blood pressure too, and lookie, it has side
> affects too…
>
>   Now because my mom is on permanent disability, she cannot work, not
> even just this weekend for you watching your kids, because if the
> government finds out, she's out of assistance and on the streets.
> What's even more draconian is the fact that she had to sign an
> agreement that she can be randomly drug tested at any time.
>
>   Fibromyalgia is a disease that affects the connective tissue of the
> human body. Marijuana is an herb that has been proven in many studies
> (mostly outside of this country) to dramatically decrease the brains
> perception of non-localized (and localized) pain, among many other
> benefits.
>
>   In short, my mom CAN take narcotic medications that make the
> pharmaceutical companies, doctors, and politicians rich, have major
> side affects, and provide minimal relief without a constant increase
> in dosage. - Remember, this isn't like when you break something and
> get scrip for two weeks. My mother is expected to live the rest of her
> life this way, which will be greatly shortened by the medications she
> is taking.
>
>   She CAN'T smoke a couple hits of marijuana, supporting a local
> cottage industry, and relieving her pain without any known or
> suspected side affects. If she did this, she would be out of pain, and
> able to get a good nights sleep, unfortunately she might not have a
> roof to sleep under, or a way to afford food.
>
>   Due to an agenda established by the Food and Drug Administration
> and with banners carried forward by those ever two faced and
> illiterate fundamentalist Christians (i

[ot_caving] Austin Area Cavers - Request for Participation

[Don Cooper]

If you are scratching your head, wondering what to do with yourself today,
please consider dropping by 3017 Burleson Road and assisting us with the big
yard cleanup!
Thanks.
-WaV

[ot_caving] Brick Robbery at 3017 Burleson Rd

[Don Cooper]

Not a big deal at all.  Actually, in case you didn't know already - we're in
the process of eliminating a whole lot of the accumulated junk and building
materials from the back yard - but this afternoon, we noticed that while we
were away, a large stack of fire-brick that Vico saved from a remodeling
site had mysteriously dissappeared.
The problem is that we don't know WHO it might have been.  To whomever took
it away - we're cool with it, but we just would like to know that it's
someone WE KNOW and not some random outsider pilfering our "resources".
Know what I mean?
Otherwise, it appears that further security measures might be in order -
we'd rather not go through the hassle of installing fences and stuff...
-WaV

[ot_caving] Weird Television off the internet.

[Don Cooper]

Has anyone (else) heard of "Gorgeous Tiny Chicken Machine Show"?  Apparently
a parody of a Japanese variety show.
I just checked out Hulu  which I'd seen promoted at the
end of "30 Rock" and located very odd content distributed by Sony
Entertainment.
"Taming of the 
Unicow"is
a highly condensed twist on similarly named Shakespeare.   Pretty
dumb,
but it works on several levels - strangely attractive and amusing - even
without drugs.  But that might help.

-WaV

(I advise against use of recreational drugs, since Nazis might keep you from
getting welfare and food stamps if you use them.  Additionally, perhaps
anyone who smokes cigarettes should be denied insurance and not allowed a
driver's license if they ever drink alcohol in any quantity since they might
also subsequently drive while intoxicated)

Re: [Texascavers] [Why Aren't Grottos Represented in the T.S.A.?]

[Don Arburn]

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 11, 2009, at 8:37 PM, Andy Grubbs  wrote:


no
that was the way it was done back in the early - mid 70s.  It was
scrapped for "one caver one vote"
cant go back,


Bull.


it aint broke,


Are you serious?


dont mess with it


Why?


Don Arburn wrote:


Individuals are, shouldn't Grottos be?

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[Texascavers] [Why Aren't Grottos Represented in the T.S.A.?]

[Don Arburn]

Individuals are, shouldn't Grottos be?

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Re: [Texascavers] Loghorn Cavern?

[Don Arburn]

Loghorn Cave?

Re: [ot_caving] global warming

[Don Cooper]

What if...
And I don't mean to be a party pooper - but what if it is already too late?
The situation is indeed dire, a problem of magnitude which its victims have
never imagined in their worse nightmares - and its been going on for so long
in an unsustainable state that the conclusion is unavoidable. Infrastructure
collapse.
Brought to you by those overseers of our economic rules and highway
bridges... Our little social system has not had the eyes to see ahead nor
the brain to consider what's coming.

-WaV-

On 2/7/09, Quinta Wilkinson  wrote:
>
>  I know I have not heard this on the news. Wonder why not?
>
> Quinta
>
> In his his first interview since taking 
> office,
> Energy Secretary Steven Chu didn't hold back on what's at stake for
> California if the nation doesn't act to stop global warming: vanishing
> vineyards, fading farms, and major cities abandoned.
>
> Why so dire? Because some of the anticipated impacts of climate change
> include water shortages in the Upper Midwest and West, which could decimate
> California's agricultural production -- the largest in the nation. One worst
> case scenario he described would have 90% of the snowpack in the Sierra
> Nevada mountain range -- one of the state's major storehouses of fresh water
> -- disappearing as global temperatures rise.
>
> His talk with the Los Angeles Times echoed two recent reports -- one,
> released in January, projected global crop 
> shortagesas a result of 
> climate change. A study last year by UC Berkeley researchers
> suggested that about $2.5 trillion of the state's real estate is at 
> risk,
> including land used for agriculture.
>
> "I don't think the American public has gripped in its gut what could
> happen," Chu said. "We're looking at a scenario where there's no more
> agriculture in California...I don't actually see how they can keep their
> cities going," either.
>
> So what will he do about this as Secretary of Energy? Chu wants to see:
>
> - Public education on global warming;
>
>- Billons of dollars invested in alternative energy research and
>infrastructure;
>
> - A national standard for electricity generated from renewable
>sources;
>
> - Cap-and-trade legislation to limit greenhouse gas emissions.
>
>
>  He said the threat of warming is keeping policymakers focused on
> alternatives to fossil fuel, even though gasoline prices have fallen over
> the last six months from historic highs. But he said public awareness needs
> to catch up. He compared the situation to a family buying an old house and
> being told by an inspector that it must pay a hefty sum to rewire it or risk
> an electrical fire that could burn everything down.
>
> "I'm hoping that the American people will wake up," Chu said, and pay the
> cost of rewiring.
>
>

[ot_caving] Cavers for Beer Saturday?

[Don Cooper]

The first Saturday of the Month, The Independence Brewery holds an open
house and welcomes legal enthusiasts to come and have a free taste or two.
A contingency of Austin Cavers will be not forgetting about it this weekend
- So if you didn't know about it already and would like to glom onto the
group - please come.
http://www.independencebrewing.com/events/brewerytour.html

-WaV

Re: [ot_caving] Need TV advice

[Don Cooper]

I too bought a Vizio 37" TV.  Its cool except that it advertises VISIO all
the time.
I could put a piece of electrical tape over it - it goes from white to
orange when its shut off.
Mine is a 740p/1080i unit - I paid 550 for it as new, opened box from a
distributor in North Austin who liquidates returns from Walmart and Target
on Ebay.  (Luckily I had to pay no freight.  I picked it up at the warehouse
in Vico's "chick magnet" custom 1989 Toyota truck.)

Its a great unit except mine had no old-style rca outputs for audio - the
only output other than the speakers behind the plastic grillwork was a fiber
optic port - compatible with Digital Dolby 5.1 so I spent another $70 for a
modern, used Aiwa A/V receiver off eBay - now it sounds great too!


On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Louise Power wrote:

>  I'm thinking about buying a new TV and have been looking at the Vizio. I
> don't want anything big or expensive, but want a good picture and decent
> sound.
>
> I've looked at Target, Costco and Walmart sites and see good ratings on the
> Vizio 22" and 32". Does anybody have any experience with Vizios--either
> positive or negative. Before I chunk out three or four hundred dollars I'd
> like to hear from people I know.
>
> If you haven't bought a Vizio, what have you bought recently that you
> either like a lot or thought was a real loser?
>

[ot_caving] Nasa Sees The Dark Side of the Sun - (caught my eye)

[Don Cooper]

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2009/23jan_darkside.htm

-WaV


(there is no dark side of the Sun really... as a matter of fact it's all
dark)

[Texascavers] [Off-Topic] [Anyone with a Jeep CJ-7 out there?]

[Don Arburn]

As many know I'm building a Jeep CJ-7, I'm currently at a point in the  
reassembly where I need to see certain things to get mine put back  
together properly. I'd like to peer under your hood (easy there folks)  
and look at the firewall and some fender braces if you don't mind.


Thanks
Don Arburn

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[Texascavers] Re: Texas Caver

[Don Arburn]

Um, guys, trim your cc's. I'm getting two and three of everything.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 20, 2009, at 11:32 AM, mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote:



Thanks, Terri.

The more Gill, the better!

The TSA could use more folks like him and him as a member. I'm working
on that!


Mark



-Original Message-
From: Terri Sprouse [mailto:terri.spro...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:33 AM
To: Gill Ediger; Don Arburn; Alman, Mark @ IRP
Cc: Texas Cavers List
Subject: Texas Caver

Mr. Chairman,

I think you have done a great job so far on getting the Texas Caver
published in a timely manner. You certainly deserve kudo's for that! I
am somewhat concerned about the online access, but I am more concerned
about ensuring that the Texas Caver continues to be published.

I will support your being Editor as long as you want to be the Editor,
and continue to provide the published Texas Caver in a timely manner.

Just offering to help if you need it. Sounds like Gil has big plans  
for

your new TSA agenda.

Terri



--- On Tue, 1/20/09, mark.al...@l-3com.com 
wrote:


It's "Chairman", Terri, and I kind of like
doing the Caver.  8^)>


Thanks, though!


Mark







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Re: [Texascavers] Viewpoint 2

[Don Arburn]

And so, my fellow cavers, ask not what the Caver can do for you - but  
what can I do for the Caver!


Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 20, 2009, at 9:57 AM, Gill Ediger  wrote:


At 05:38 PM 1/19/2009, Geoff Hoese wrote:

The TSA exists to serve the interests of its members.


Yes. But that's sorta like saying that motherhood is a good thing.  
It's pretty much unqualified.


There are a couple of sides to that argument, of course. One is  
completely selfish; the other is benevolent and fulfilling.


Over simplifying here, I will say that one only addresses the "What  
can I get for myself out of this organization? Then gimme it!" What  
they have in mind and what they get is pretty much an inanimate  
object in the form of The TEXAS CAVER. Their dues and that tangible  
object are related in their minds--one begats the other and vice  
versa. That the TSA never does anything else for them (or that they  
never expect for the TSA to do anything else for them) is of little  
consequence. In their minds one is the other. Aside from the pride  
and prestige of being a member--for whatever that's worth--they  
expect little more than The CAVER and infrequent (mostly non-caving)  
events where they can see old friends, sit around a campfire  
drinking beer, and telling war stories. Pretty exciting and  
fulfilling, huh?


Then there is the practical side of the "What can the TSA do for  
me?" contingent. They are the ones who are interested in the TSA  
'making caving better for them and, benevolently, other cavers,' not  
just sending them a fancy publication. They ask several questions:
   How is the TSA working to solve problems caused by new or  
independent or non-cavers that affect my access to many caves?

   What is the TSA doing to prevent bad publicity?
   What is the TSA doing to encourage and promote good publicity?
   How is the TSA educating cavers to improve cave and landowner  
relations?

   How is the TSA promoting safe cave exploration?
   What is the TSA doing to educate non-cavers as to the dangers of  
cave environment and ground water polution?
   How is the TSA reaching out to new cavers to encourage them to  
join their fellow cavers in the TSA?
   What is the TSA doing to educate new cavers about established  
techniques and equipment and all cavers in timely advances in those  
fields?

   How is the TSA promoting the discovery of new caves?
   How is anything the TSA is doing contributing to making caving  
better for me and my friends and, even, for cavers I will never know  
or come in contact with?

   In short, how is the TSA affecting my caving positively?

These--and more--are the questions that caver members of the TSA  
could claim that the TSA ought to be responding to for its members.  
In numbers there is strength and the more caver-members that the TSA  
has the larger the caver base and collective skills and knowledge  
and man power it has to pursue its goals and purposes--all to the  
benefit of each other and the various entities of the 'association'-- 
not just the narrow "me, me, me" mentality of newsletter only  
members. And that is something not so tangible as The TEXAS CAVER  
but much more valuable as a service to cavers and caving in the long  
run. The TSA--the Texas Region--was formed by cavers who strived to  
attract all (or as many as posible) cavers into a common-interest  
group which could better address mutual caving problems (landowner  
relations, safety, training, creature comforts) and increase a  
caver's sphere of acquaintences within the caving community--again  
to members' individual and mutual benefit. It was so important that  
they wrote that into their first constitution as a part of their  
goals and purposes. You can read that as a benefit: more friends  
means more opportunity to go on more trips to explore more caves and  
more and diverse knowledge about caves and equipment and techniques  
and all sorts of other intangible but significantly valuable perks  
that most cavers would appreciate. That (or those) would seem to me  
to be the sort of things that the TSA should pursue in order "to  
serve the interests of its members". Understand, for sure, that The  
TEXAS CAVER is an important vector in that pursuit of those goals  
and purposes. It is chock-full of excactly the kind of information  
that the new and independent caver ought to be receiving from the  
TSA in pursuit of it's goals and purposes--and those of our fellow,  
but unknown, cavers. But if they don't receive The CAVER, if they  
aren't attracted to join the TSA, how will they know? How will that  
"serve the interests of its members?"


While The TEXAS CAVER is a valuable, tangible tool of the TSA in the  
pursuit of its goals and purposes, it is the intangible tools that  
the TSA provides (or should provide) its members that give it the  
ability "to serve the interests of its members" which, ostensibly,  
is the pursuit of caving. So long as someone is still an act

Re: [Texascavers] [Bitching & the Caver]

[Don Arburn]

Wonderful suggestions all. Remember them (and all the others from  
decades past) at the next TSA meeting.


Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2009, at 10:43 AM, Lyndon Tiu  wrote:


On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 08:11:11 -0800 l...@alumni.sfu.ca wrote:

Go to the "TSA
Store" and purchase a subscription.


I figure from what Lee Jay said at the TSA meeting about traffic  
being very low at the TSA Store. I suppose we can solve two problems  
at once by using the TSA store for TC hard copy subscriptions ...


--
Lyndon Tiu

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Re: [Texascavers] why join the TSA?

[Don Arburn]

Exactly.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2009, at 9:42 AM, Joe Ranzau  wrote:

Mixon elegantly cuts to the bone for us...  I've been pondering this  
for years, ever since my time as an offer, when someone asked me  
what their membership in the TSA got them.  Aside from the Texas  
Caver, there is not much that is not already being done well by  
another organization.  The projects stood out as something the TSA  
facilitated.  Taking a closer look, the projects need the TSA a lot  
less than the TSA needs the projects.  Any project in existance now  
and the recent past would exist easily without TSA.  This past year  
the TSA has funded repairs at Honey Creek, donated to TCMA and  
donated to the ICS, none of which are TSA projects.  The spring  
convention is a great thing but TCR proves it is easily possible  
without the TSA.


So then what is the TSA?  Well, quite frankly it is whatever you  
make it.  YOU being the key!  I recall a good turnout at the TSA  
meeting including several of the vocal posters infavor of  this  
here, but most people were not there.  What does that mean? Well, it  
pretty much means that you don't get a say until the next meeting or  
election.  Tough cookies.


Gill has noble intentions of including everyone, sounds great and  
might even work in the world of PDF, it damn near bankrupted TSA  
last time he was incharge.  Something about not collecting dues from  
anyone and then getting bailouts from the Grottos...  Printing was/ 
is expensive...


But, the thing is Gill did it, made the TSA into his vision.  Mark  
ran unopposed for election and I suspect if the election were today  
no one would run.  Basically the TSA is whatever Mark and the other  
officers decide it should be.  Sure, they are accountable to the  
membership, but until the membership is willing to do something, our  
opinions don't mean much.


I have a close friend who called to complain about all of this, they  
want their printed caver, which is all fine and good, are they going  
to do anything besides complain, doubtful.


I actually disagree with Mark, I want a printed caver, but I'm not  
willing to pay much more and I'm sure as hell not going to run for  
office or editor so I don't have many options other than to offer  
advice and deal with it.


My advice mirrors Mixon, if we go digital then we need to  
drastically cut dues.  $5 or $10 sounds good to me...


So, other than wasting more electrons, my point is if this bothers  
you, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT BESIDES COMPLAINING!  Attend a meeting,  
run for office, or deal with it.


:-)

Joe





On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Mixon Bill  
 wrote:
It's a pretty sad state of affairs in Texas if the Texas Caver's  
circulation is so low that it can't go bulk rate. Hell, when I was  
in Chicago, the _grotto's_ newsletter was sent bulk rate.


With all due respect (and then some) to brother Gillum, _my_  
membership in the TSA _is_ primarily a subscription to the Texas  
Caver. What else am I getting?


Cave acquisition and management? There are two (well, one and a  
half) other groups in Texas I can support to do that.


Fellowship? That's done better by TCR. As Gill points out, it could  
perhaps be done better by the TSA, too, as far as unaffiliated  
cavers are concerned, but that needn't cost money.


Education? Well, there's the spring convention, but that's meant to  
be self-supporting; there isn't even a TSA member discount.


Cave files and book publications? The Texas Speleological Survey  
does that.


Public relations? Well, there are things to be done there in the  
fields of conservation, etc., but the TSA couldn't spend $2000 a  
year on that if it tried.


If the expense of the Texas Caver is eliminated by going on-line,  
then reasonable TSA dues seem to me to be about $5 a year, based on  
the money I can see it spending usefully without duplicating what  
other groups are doing (or simply passing on my money to those other  
groups).


Actually, to cut costs I wouldn't mind at all if the Texas Caver  
were produced less expensively, without the color covers, the saddle- 
stitching, and all that. It's the material in it that counts. But  
some contributors might be lost if the quality of production  
declined. The fact that any copy I print myself will be of less  
printing quality than what I'm getting now doesn't bother me  
particularly. (Gill may have an 11x17 color laser printer and a  
saddle-stapler, but I don't.) But if I'm paying for it, I want it.  
-- Mixon

--
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
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Re: [Texascavers] Apathy, Entitlement, and Participation

[Don Arburn]

What she said!

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2009, at 9:56 AM, Linda Palit  wrote:

At this point you can get hard copies of the Caver by mail or get  
internet copies instead by signing up.  If you do not sign up, you  
will continue to get a hard copy.  The internet site is not  
accessible except to members, in theory.


Funny how organizations don't do what you want or read your mind.   
Most of us cannot attend every TSA meeting, but attending when you  
can means you have a voice that matters and that influences the  
organization.


At some times TSA has a some difficulty finding Caver editors,  
finding people to run for office, and finding members to fill  
committee posts.  But it is very easy to find members with opinions,  
and cavers who think it is all being done wrong.


TSA is a member organization, and business is carried out in  
meetings.  Because members don't want to come to meetings, TSA is  
spending quite a bit of money yearly to hold elections by mail so  
members do not have to come to vote at TCR or at the meeting.  I am  
not convinced that is money well spent.  And I certainly do not  
think more business should be carried out by polling the membership  
in some way other than in a meeting.


TSA members have the right to participate, influence policy, and  
vote.  All they need to do is come to the meetings.  Or we can carry  
out long conversations about how things should be done by sending  
emails and hope the officers feel pressured to do what we want.


I am gratified to see people care about the TSA and about the  
Caver.  But I am weary of this conversation, and suggest people  
attend the Spring TSA meeting in Kerrville to make their views heard.

[Texascavers] [Bitching & the Caver]

[Don Arburn]

Granted no agenda was published for the meeting, but this has been an  
issue for years. Mark, put this issue in the Caver and an agenda for  
the next meeting of the TSA.


Don't bitch if you don't vote.

Apathy is what happened to the TSA.

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [Texascavers] why join the TSA?

[Don Arburn]

A vote in TSA affairs should be pretty high on the list.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 17, 2009, at 2:10 PM, Mixon Bill  wrote:


What else am I getting?

Cave acquisition and management?

Fellowship?

Education?

Cave files and book publications?

Public relations?


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Re: [Texascavers] A bit of history for everyone :

[Don Arburn]

Way back when, I thought we did poll the membership.

Personally I don't see a huge issue here:

1) A .PDF is practically a byproduct of digital editing.

2) Our publication is thought to be "public" sensitive, IOW some worry  
about copyright. However there are many methods to protect online  
documents. My favorite example was used by a company to protect online  
digital books I used to purchase and read: the password to get the  
book downloaded was your credit card number. You weren't going to  
share it. (clearly there are reasons nowadays NOT to use this method).


3) it had been discussed at one point that only back issues would be  
available online.


Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2009, at 8:52 AM, John Brooks   
wrote:


I agree. It is clearly not so simple. This has been an ongoing topic  
for yearsand like the "Land Fund" issue , it is something that  
many have a strong opinion about.it might have been a prudent  
idea to poll the membership prior to taking action.



Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2009, at 8:35 AM, Don Arburn  wrote:

It's clearly not that simple.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2009, at 8:24 AM, Lyndon Tiu  wrote:

On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 08:23:09 -0600 donarb...@mac.com wrote:
It was suggested as far back as 2003.


Then, it's about time we acted on it then.

--
Lyndon Tiu

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Re: [Texascavers] A bit of history for everyone :

[Don Arburn]

It's clearly not that simple.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2009, at 8:24 AM, Lyndon Tiu  wrote:


On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 08:23:09 -0600 donarb...@mac.com wrote:

It was suggested as far back as 2003.



Then, it's about time we acted on it then.

--
Lyndon Tiu

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Re: [Texascavers] A bit of history for everyone :

[Don Arburn]

It was suggested as far back as 2003.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2009, at 8:18 AM, Lyndon Tiu  wrote:


On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 07:20:24 -0600 mark.al...@l-3com.com wrote:

The TC going electronic was covered well in the minutes,


The TC going eletcronic was suggested at last year's (Jan. 2008)  
winter meeting (at CBSP) but was never acted on until it was brought  
up again this year.


--
Lyndon Tiu

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[Texascavers] [For David][Researchers develop higher-efficiency LEDs]

[Don Arburn]

http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/14/researchers-develop-higher-efficiency-leds/

Researchers develop higher-efficiency LEDs

Re: [ot_caving] Palin vs. Kennedy

[Don Cooper]

I liked the parody of the MCain / Palin poster:  *Geezer / Dingbat*.
-WaV

On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Gill Ediger  wrote:

> At 03:01 PM 1/9/2009, Louise Power wrote:
>
>> I believe Palin's 15 minutes are up.
>>
>
> Naw! We haven't seen the end of her. She's still good for many more laughs.
> Her clock only has 15 minutes on it; it keeps going around and around--just
> as she does.
>
> Blessed are those who go in circles, for they shall be called the Big
> Wheels.
>
> --Ediger
>
> -
> Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
>
>

Re: [ot_caving] FW: Neil Armstrong

[Don Cooper]

NICE STORY!

Too bad it NEVER HAPPENED.
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/mrgorsky.asp

-WaV
(the eternal skeptic)

On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Fritz Holt wrote:

>  What a GREAT short story. If true, Mrs. Gorsky must have been physic or
> was in no hurry.
>
> Fritz
>
>
>  --
>
> *From:* Chris Young
> *Sent:* Friday, January 09, 2009 10:56 AM
> *To:* 'cline_yo...@ajg.com'; 'Mark Davis'; 'Jonathan Appel'; Fritz Holt
> *Subject:* FW: Neil Armstrong
>
>
>
> Pretty funny!
>
>
>
> *Christopher E. Young, CPCU CIC**
> **Town & Country Insurance Agency**
> **10575 Katy Freeway Suite 150**
> **Houston**, Texas 77024**
> **Phone (713) 461-8979**
> **Fax (713) 464-2674**
> **Email **cyo...@townandcountryins.com* 
>
> *Thank you for doing business with Town & Country Insurance.*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   --
>
> *From:* Jay Cooley [mailto:jcoo...@maxicorp.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, January 09, 2009 7:06 AM
> *To:* Chris Young; Dad; lee ball; Mike Olmstead; Richard Waters; steve
> merry
> *Subject:* FW: Neil Armstrong
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> *From:* L. D. Simon Jr. [mailto:catf...@ctesc.net]
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 08, 2009 7:06 PM
> *To:* Tim Dockal; Linda Fischer; Lance Self; Jay Cooley; Doug Lozano;
> Cheryl (Sissie) Smith; Bonnie Schmidt; Barbara Landry(home)
> *Subject:* Fw: Neil Armstrong
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
>
> *From:* Sarah Adams 
>
> *To:* Sarah Adams 
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:13 AM
>
> *Subject:* Neil Armstrong
>
>
>
> Subject:  Neil Armstrong
>
> MOON TALK.  GUARANTEED  TO  MAKE  YOU SMILE
>
>
> ON JULY 20,  1969, AS COMMANDER OF THE APOLLO 11 LUNAR MODULE, NEIL
> ARMSTRONG
> WAS THE FIRST PERSON TO SET FOOT  ON THE MOON.  HIS FIRST WORDS AFTER
> STEPPING
> ON THE MOON, 'THAT'S ONE SMALL STEP FOR MAN, ONE GIANT LEAP FOR
> MANKIND,' WERE TELEVISED TO EARTH AND HEARD BY MILLIONS.
>
> BUT JUST BEFORE HE REENTERED THE LANDER, HE  MADE THE ENIGMATIC REMARK
> 'GOOD LUCK, MR. GORSKY.'
>
> MANY PEOPLE AT NASA THOUGH IT WAS A CASUAL REMARK CONCERNING SOME RIVAL
> SOVIET
> COSMONAUT.
>
> HOWEVER, UPON CHECKING, THERE WAS NO GORSKY IN EITHER THE RUSSIAN OR
> AMERICAN
> SPACE PROGRAMS.
>
> OVER THE YEARS MANY PEOPLE QUESTIONED ARMSTRONG AS TO WHAT THE  'GOOD LUCK,
> MR.  GORSKY,'  STATEMENT MEANT, BUT ARMSTRONG ALWAYS JUST SMILED.
>
> ON JULY 5, 1995, IN TAMPA BAY, FLORIDA, WHILE ANSWERING QUESTIONS
> FOLLOWING A SPEECH, A REPORTER BROUGHT UP THE 26-YEAR OLD QUESTION TO
> ARMSTRONG.  THIS TIME HE FINALLY RESPONDED.
>
> MR. GORSKY HAD DIED, SO NEIL ARMSTRONG FELT HE COULD ANSWER THE QUESTION.
>
> IN 1938, WHEN HE WAS A KID IN A SMALL MID-WEST TOWN, HE WAS PLAYING
> BASEBALL
> WITH A FRIEND IN THE BACKYARD.
>
> HIS FRIEND HIT THE BALL, WHICH LANDED IN HIS NEIGHBOR'S YARD BY THE BEDROOM
> WINDOWS.
>
> HIS NEIGHBORS WERE MR. AND MRS. GORSKY.
>
> AS HE  LEANED DOWN TO PICK UP THE BALL, YOUNG ARMSTRONG HEARD MRS. GORSKY
> SHOUTING AT MR. GORSKY.
>
> 'SEX!  YOU WANT SEX?!  YOU'LL GET  SEX WHEN THE KID NEXT DOOR WALKS ON
> THE MOON!'
>
> TRUE  STORY..
>
>
>

[ot_caving] LED Question

[Don Cooper]

Does anyone understand what the lumen output would be for 1mcf, 5mm,
white LEDs?
I'm examining the possibility of creating a 1000 LED array, estimating a
power usage of 30watts.
-WaV

Re: [ot_caving] computer news - memory prices

[Don Cooper]

Wow!
I remember that I thought I was getting an incredible deal when I found one
for $19.99, 18 months ago.  Maybe at the time it was...

-WaV

On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Alex Sproul  wrote:

>   In the fast-disappearing Circuit City stores, I found a 2-GB SD Memory
> Card, MSRP $39.99, for...$2.96.  I bought several!
>
>Alex
>
>  - Give
> this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail:
> ot-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [ot_caving] computer news - memory prices

[Don Cooper]

ANOTHER Caveat -
And this especially applies to VISTA (Oh, I forgot they call it Mojave
now):
Many peripherals have no drivers written (yet) to handle 64 bit operating
systems.
One of the presents my brother gave to himself and his home entertainment
system on Xmas was a new HP computer to go with his 42" HP plasma flat
screen panel.
He got gobs of memory, and to be able to address those gobs, he had the
computer pre-installed with Vista 64  to handle 5 or 6 gigs. (one gig, I
believe is dedicated to video shadowing)
As his flat screen did not come with a broadcast HD receiver (ATSC
compatible or something like that?) he figured he'd finally overcome that
shorfall with a HD TV card in his 'television computer'.   So after months
of furtive dismissal of my dissaproval of Vista (and I've never been a
microsoft fan) now he's got egg on his face.  Maybe he'll have better luck
with a Hauppage card - but the one he bought flat out didnt work and the
customer service reps he reached didn't seem to understand the issue.
The internal BlueRay player - made by LG - did work.  However, older
releases of movies seem to employ 'dithering' to hike that resolution up to
1240 x 1080p - so the disk might BE B.R. but if you look close enough you
can tell that bit by bit - its only been extrapolated from DVD format.
-Happy New Year
 WaV

On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 10:35 AM, Charles Goldsmith wrote:

> For most computer users, 2 gig of ram seems to be the sweet spot, this
> applies to most power users.  The only caveat to that is anyone doing
> a lot of graphic or  work, photoshop, etc need a lot more.
>
> And you are correct, XP (32 bit) which is most of the XP installs, can
> only address a max of 3.5gb of ram.  Anything more is a huge waste.
> This applies to all operating systems that are 32 bit.  Also, before
> you run out and upgrade your XP or Vista to 64 bit, keep in mind, your
> motherboard/processor have to support 64 bit as well, or things won't
> work as you want.
>
> Mac users need not worry, OSX is all 64 bit :)
>
> Charles
>
> On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 2:44 AM, David  wrote:
> > Check out some of these memory prices on a 1 gig stick of DDR2:
> >
> > http://www.geeks.com/products_sc.asp?cat=720
> >
> > Most are in the $ 15 to $ 20 range.
> >
> > I don't quiet understand how RAM is not affected much by inflation.
> >
> > If you bought a desktop computer a year or 2 ago, it probably
> > only came with 1 gig of DDR2.Right?
> >
> > At those prices, why not put 4 gigs of RAM in your computer.
> > It is a very simple upgrade.
> >
> > I believe that most computer users of XP will not be able to use
> > more than 4 gigs, and probably wouldn't need to anyways.
> >
> > Just 10 years ago, I was doing computer drafting at a research
> > engineering company and my PC only had 128 kilobytes of RAM,
> > and we were excited when the company doubled the RAM to 256 K.
> >
> > David Locklear
> >
> > -
> > Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
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> >
> >
>
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Re: [Texascavers] Strange Christmas letter

[Don Cooper]

Was it something about how an assistant accompanying a reformed alcoholic
who would fart and drool and do other gross things to illustrate the
depravity of unbridled hedonism???
I've been sent one like that once...

-WaV

On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 10:16 AM, Ron Miller  wrote:

> I got the strangest Christmas letter that is obviously made up to be
> humorous and sent anomalously. It is mailed from Fort Worth to me at my
> current Driftwood address. The only lists I am on is the Texas Cavers
> membership and NSS list. It is composed using a typewriter and has a photo
> of a house. It is signed Billy Earl, SR.
>
> Anyone else get this greeting also?
>
>
> Ron Miller
>
>

Re: [ot_caving] Dental Tourism in Mexico ?

[Don Cooper]

Do you mean 'dentist' or do you mean "DENTIST"?   Oh - you mentioned molars
removed...
By 'molars' I'm sure that you don't mean that you want your "MOLARS"
removed!
Yes.  Much cheaper on either end

-WaV

On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 7:46 PM, David  wrote:

> I am considering visiting a dentist in Mexico.
>
>
> http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/travel/destinations/related/mexico/4470160.html
>
> Does anybody know anybody who has tried this?
>
> I would think it would be safer and cheaper to travel deep into Mexico
> and not use a dentist
> at the border.Maybe San Luis Potosi ?
>
> I need to have what is left of my back 2 molars removed.
>
> I should at least get them x-ray it and clean them and get an estimate.
> Right?
>
> Ref:
>
> http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2005-07-28-dental-tourism_x.htm
>
> http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/12/20/121018/65
>
> David Locklear
>
> -
> Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com
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>
>

Re: [ot_caving] OT - Radio Flyer Wagon

[Don Cooper]

No.  I put a piece of foam rubber in it though.  It made rides down the hill
more comfortable.
Me and my brother figured how to steer it from sitting inside it with the
'tow handle' turned backwards and we'd ride it down the biggest hill within
a mile of our house.  It was fun as hell, fast and dangerous.  Eventually we
tore the suspension from the bottom.  My grandfather welded it back together
with bracing and made it about 10lbs heavier.

I never could figure out WHY it was called Radio Flyer.  It could only
momentarily fly in the first moments of the very worst accidents and it had
no freakin' radio!!

We made a joke out of it.  We'd call the pet turtle "radioactive wings", the
sandbox "frequency stratosphere" and the dog "oscillating airhead".

-WaV


On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 12:38 AM, David  wrote:

> Do you remember your little red wagon from your childhood?
>
> Did it have cup-holders, upholstered seats, iPod dock, speakers,
> seat-belts?
>
>
> http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/TECH/12/24/radio.flyer.wagon/RadioFlyer3.jpg
>
> -
> Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com
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>
>

[Texascavers] Not Exactly Cave Related, But Mexico and Geology Related...

[Don Cooper]

About the distance between Uvalde and Del Rio, west of Del Rio - there's a
concentration of what appear to be volcanic craters.
I was doing a 'satellite geology field trip' of the Del Rio area and noticed
what looks very much like craters and possible calderas.
I hoped that perhaps someone familiar with this part of northern Mexico
might know a little about this area.
Is this an igneous region or it possibly a mix of limestone and extinct
volcanoes?
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=&sll=29.609282,-102.531967&sspn=0.269835,0.4422&ie=UTF8&ll=29.382175,-102.513428&spn=0.27044,0.4422&t=h&z=11
Thanks,
WaV

Fwd: [Texascavers] Lebanon's Jeita Caves on list for New 7 Wonders of Nature :

[Don Cooper]

Lech is a wonder all right.  But don't you think this "wonders of the world"
is just a bit shaded by "touristical B.S."?
Trying to get this thing nominated or that thing recognized seems an awful
lot like a form of politicizing to me.
I mean, who designated this thing or that thing as the fifteenth wonder of
the world, anyway?

Any thoughts, Mr. E?

-WaV


On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 4:52 PM, Matt Turner  wrote:

> What about Lechuguilla?? It's not even on the list. I've just submitted it,
> but still I'm surprised it's not in there. I was also surprised that Cueva
> de los Cristales wasn't as well and have nominated it as well
>
> Matt Turner
>
>
> "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
> without accepting it." - Aristotle
>
>
> "Empty pockets never held anyone back.Only empty heads and empty hearts can
> do that."- Norman Vincent Peale
>
>  --
> *From:* Quinta Wilkinson 
> *To:* Texascavers@texascavers.com; jerryat...@aol.com
> *Sent:* Monday, December 22, 2008 10:23:59 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Lebanon's Jeita Caves on list for New 7
> Wonders of Nature :
>
>  The Grand Canyon is the top US wonder just now. We need to vote for
> Mammoth Cave as it is way down the list. It also does not have official
> support at this time. There is a way to start an official support group.
> Quinta
>
>

Re: [Texascavers] minor cave rescue in the news

[Don Cooper]

Sounds like a caver to me.
He was in a freakin' cave wasn't he?
-WaV

On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 10:46 PM, David  wrote:

> Here is a minor story in the news about a person stuck in a cave
>
>
>
> http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/dec/18/knoxville-rescuers-responding-man-trapped-monroe-c/
>
> Was it a caver?
>
>

[ot_caving] Bad TV On the Internet Tonight - or whenever you want

[Don Cooper]

Ah, trailer parks.  As I'm writing this, on "My Name is Earl" the set is a
trailer park.
But that's not what I'm writing about.
While trying to fall asleep (WAY before my usual bedtime) in Houston a while
back at my brother's house over thanksgiving,
channel-surfing - I snagged on a movie called "The Trailer Park Boys - The
Movie".
Wondering, the other day, who these people are and what the series the movie
was based on - I stumbled across something perhaps uniquely Canadian and
irritatingly entertaining.   At least for me anyway.  I guess I just have a
long, unquenchable fascination for Canadian subculture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trailer_park_boys
So if you're bored, love "mocumentaries", have high speed internet and enjoy
the irreverent, irrelevant and absurd, CHECK OUT the goings on in the
fictional Nova Scotia Sunnyvale Trailer
Parkat
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1344122195717222527&hl=en
-WaV

Re: [Texascavers] OT - price of gas

[Don Cooper]

My thinking is that part of the reason it's so low now is because so many
financial hedge funds were betting that it would stay high.  Part of the
reason it's cheap now is because it was "paid forward" when it was so
unreasonably high.  When we were all getting "ripped off" where did all that
money go?  It's now paying for unreasonably cheap gasoline.  But has anyone
else noticed that diesel is a WHOLE lot more *now* than it was the
*last*time gasoline was $1.50 a gallon?
At that point, diesel was only $1.60 to $1.70.  Something stinks here!

And speaking of OIL - this really is a burr in my craw... I had to pay $14
for 5 quarts of decent motor oil at Wally Whirled the other day.  Man!  That
used to be THE cheapest place for motor oil.  Auto zone is just about the
same price.   WHAT IS *THAT *about???

-WaV

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 4:46 PM, Fritz Holt wrote:

>  I was generally referring to imported oil prices and profit margins as
> that is where most of it comes from.
>
> Fritz
>
>
>  --
>
> *From:* Brian Riordan [mailto:riordan.br...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:43 PM
> *To:* Fritz Holt
> *Cc:* David; Texascavers Mailing List
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] OT - price of gas
>
>
>
> It all depends.  A classic Texas gusher takes nothing to get a lot.
> Deepwater fields cost a certain amount to initiate, produce and transport,
> if the current price doesn't offset that, they lose, while the Texas gusher
> may still make money.  Canadian Oil Sands require even more to upgrade the
> oil (besides, who the hell wants to work in Northern Alberta, just take a
> look at housing prices!
> http://www.colinhartigan.com/view_listing.php?listing=mls&id=8320001070)-
> it takes so much energy to produce the crude oil here, that without a high
> oil price, it doesn't make sense to dig it up.  If a company initiates a
> project because it became economical at 80 bucks a barrel, they may lose
> money on that field for every day of production under 80 bucks/barrel, while
> the Texas gusher STILL makes money.  To oversimplify...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Fritz Holt 
> wrote:
>
> Oil companies are complaining because oil has dropped from $140. a barrel
> to below $50. Some years back when oil was at or below $20. they said if
> only the price could get back to $30. Although, I have read where the oil
> companies/refiners do not make a higher percentage of profit when oil prices
> are high. There are advantages and disadvantages when oil and Gasoline
> prices are high. I personally prefer it at the current price of $1.48 at
> Sam's.
> Fritz
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 1:26 PM
> To: Texascavers Mailing List
> Subject: [Texascavers] OT - price of gas
>
> I saw gas for $ 1.34 yesterday.
>
> I heard one analyst say that if the economy continues at its current pace,
> that
> gas could fall to 99 cents per gallon in some places.
>
> Where I live, there does not appear to be a decrease in demand for gas, so
> to
> me the huge price drop of $ 2.50 per gallon seems surprising.I am not
> going
> to complain though.
>
> I feel that someone illegally profited from the sale of gas this past
> summer when
> gas prices were at an all-time high. Maybe it wasn't illegal, but
> certainly greedy,
> or something like price-gouging.
>
> David Locklear
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
>
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
>
>

[ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] Refrigeration over Fire

[Don Cooper]

It reminds me of a natural gas powered refrigerator my grandfather had in
his welding shop.
It looked just like any other refrigerator, but the energy that ran the
thing came from a little gas burner in the back of it.

-Don C

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 4:06 PM, Andy Zenker  wrote:

> But most likely likely it's what someone else said - the Einstein
> refrigerator, a single-pressure absorption refrigerator.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_refrigerator
>
> Just like anything else, energy is required to run it.  Heat is energy so
> it makes sense.
>
>
> ROCKHUGGER
> Andy Zenker
> Texas Caver
>
>
>
>

[ot_caving] Fwd: [Texascavers] Refrigeration over fire?

[Don Cooper]

I think it works like a Reverse ETF, which is a stock that goes up in price
when the price of stocks is covers goes down!  *(And Vica (of course) Versa)
*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse_etf

*-WaV*

2008/12/10 Matt Turner 

 http://gizmodo.com/5105820/zero-electricity-fridge-freezes-with-fire
>
> I'm really curious on how this works. I keep thinking  it's April 1st.
>
> Matt Turner
>
>
> "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
> without accepting it." - Aristotle
>
>
> "Empty pockets never held anyone back.Only empty heads and empty hearts can
> do that."- Norman Vincent Peale
>
>  --
> *From:* Jon Cradit 
> *To:* Mary Thiesse ; texascavers@texascavers.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:42:55 PM
> *Subject:* RE: [Texascavers] Fw: [greater_houston_grotto] Harry Walker
>
>  I remember when I first started caving and listening to stories told by
> Harry and Charles and wishing some day to grow up to have stories like
> theirs.
>
> Please pass along my deepest condolences to Harry's family and the awe
> which I held him in.
>
>
>
> Jon Cradit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Mary Thiesse [mailto:wpipistre...@yahoo.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:26 PM
> *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com
> *Subject:* [Texascavers] Fw: [greater_houston_grotto] Harry Walker
>
>
>
> I believe there are a number of other texas cavers that would like to know
> this as well.
>
> Mary TZ
>
>
>
> - Forwarded Message 
> *From:* Kevin McGowan 
> *To:* greater_houston_gro...@yahoogroups.com
> *Cc:* mcon...@swbell.net; cfro...@yahoo.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 10, 2008 10:22:09 AM
> *Subject:* [greater_houston_grotto] Harry Walker
>
>
>   Hello,
>
> Those of us in GHG that have been around a while remember Harry Walker. I'm
> sorry to say that Harry passed away suddenly, yesterday after a long battle
> with Alzheimer.
>
> David Locklear informed me that there will be a service for Harry at the
> Crowder Funeral Home in Dickenson TX at 2pm this Saturday.
>
> Crowder Funeral Home 851 Hwy. 517 @ 646 Dickinson, TX 77539. Phone:(281)
> 337-1515.
>
> I called to confirm this. This is a link to their site:
> http://www.crowderf uneralhome. com/default. 
> htm
>
> Harry hiked many of the 14ers and had always been and avid outdoorsman. He
> went with us into Honey Creek to look around when he was 80 years old. He
> was also one of the founding members of GHG.
>
> His wife, Dorothy survives him. Many of us remember the parties at Harry
> and
> Dorothy's. We enjoyed their pool and wonderful hospitality. Harry will be
> missed and I can only hope that I have ½ his energy when I'm in my 80s. He
> was a real inspiration to enjoying life for as long as you can.
>
> Kevin McGowan Photography
>
> 5250 Gulfton, Suite 2F
>
> Houston Texas 77081
>
> Studio: 713-665-3818
>
> Mobile: 281-433-2474
>
> kevin@kevinmcgowan. comb 
>
> web: www.kevinmcgowan. com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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[ot_caving] Re: Call The President - URGENT

[Don Cooper]

As I perceive the current administration to be totally indifferent to the
disadvantaged - I don't have any hopes of influencing the way things are -
not until Barrack Obama actually takes office.

In the 'war against drugs' I feel that the *most* of those arrested are
victims of the state.  I do not feel that it is right to punish people who
have this problem - no matter what moral pulpit one stands behind!  For the
most part, the current policies only serve to further victimize those who
suffer from the disease of addiction.

Specifically, the Solomon-Lautenberg
amendmentis
perhaps one of the most disgraceful attacks against the common people
of
this country which has ever been devised.  Ever wonder why so many 'celebs'
are charged for driving with a suspended license?  It is because of this
amendment which makes a mandatory suspension of one's license statutory for
drug conviction - that so many people are driving without a license.  (And
you mostly only hear about this happening to people who otherwise have the
means to have other people drive them around!!!)

-WaV


On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 6:56 AM, Quinta Wilkinson wrote:

>  They do work for us and we do have the right and need to tell them how we
> feel. If we do not then how can we complain?
>
> Quinta
>