Re: [TruthTalk] Emailing: sda.htm

[Marlin halverson]





- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
BTW, I am partially inclined to agree with 
you that all has not been fulfilled--the gold plates were first delivered to the 
Prophet JS on the day of the Feast of Trumpets.  JS never pointed this 
out--not sure he even knew it--but it is true.  Check it out--September 22, 1827.   

 
Marlin: I did.  Curious.  : ) http://www.cbcg.org/Calendar/index.html

[TruthTalk] Bush on the Constitution: 'It's just a goddamned piece of paper'

[Marlin halverson]

Bush on the Constitution: 'It's just a goddamned piece of 
paper'
 
http://contrarianistic.blogspot.com/
 
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7779.shtml

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:WWCofG lives on

[Marlin halverson]

It seems that with very narrow exceptions, all roads lead 
to Rome.  As the Virginia Slims cigarette commercial said to the 'liberated 
woman,' "You've come a long way baby."  It is now time for 
that corporate body, which has a papal form of government, to 
take "Rome's Challenge" of 1893.  
 
--Marlin
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 9:12 PM
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Re:WWCofG lives 
  on
  
  
  
  Years ago, when I too, was a legalist,  I enjoyed listening to 
  Herbert W Armstrong and Garner Ted. 
   
  But they lost me with their emphasis on the Old LAw.  Many of their 
  arguments  --  such as "against evolution"  --  were 
  actually very good.  
   
  Anyway  --   Carner Ted did the twist with one of 
  the sisters and Herbert died in the mid 80"s
   
  and something very unusual happened to this fellowship.  I don't 
  know what to think about all the changes,  but one very important change 
  was the "end of the law" and life in a relationship with the Christ.
   
  You just might find this article interesting.   
   
  http://www.wcg.org/lit/AboutUs/history.htm
   
   
   
  Jd

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:WWCofG lives on

[Marlin halverson]

I'm 
oooll

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:WWCofG lives on

[Marlin halverson]

That assessment is like seeing a piece of the cow up so 
close that you do not know what you are looking at.  It is like saying, 
"I'm looking at a black mark surrounded by a white area...;"  not 
realizing that one is looking at sometihing that is a part of some much 
larger beast.
 
--Marlin

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 12:26 
AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:WWCofG lives 
  on
  
  Do you believe Sunday Worship is the mark of the 
  beast?Marlin halverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote: 
  



It seems that with very narrow exceptions, all roads 
lead to Rome.  As the Virginia Slims cigarette commercial said to the 
'liberated woman,' "You've come a long way baby."  It is now time for 
that corporate body, which has a papal form of government, to 
take "Rome's Challenge" of 1893.  
 
--Marlin
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 9:12 
  PM
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Re:WWCofG lives 
  on
  
  
  
  Years ago, when I too, was a legalist,  I enjoyed listening to 
  Herbert W Armstrong and Garner Ted. 
   
  But they lost me with their emphasis on the Old LAw.  Many of 
  their arguments  --  such as "against evolution"  --  
  were actually very good.  
   
  Anyway  --   Carner Ted did the twist with one 
  of the sisters and Herbert died in the mid 80"s
   
  and something very unusual happened to this fellowship.  I don't 
  know what to think about all the changes,  but one very important 
  change was the "end of the law" and life in a relationship with the 
  Christ.
   
  You just might find this article interesting.   
   
  http://www.wcg.org/lit/AboutUs/history.htm
   
   
   
  Jd
  __Do You 
  Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
  http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:WWCofG lives on

[Marlin halverson]

Do you believe Sunday Worship 
is the mark of the beast? Kevin Deegan 
Although it, 
instead of Sabbath keeping, may be a symptom, it is not 'the' mark of the 
beast.  
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 12:26 
AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:WWCofG lives 
  on
  
  Do you believe Sunday Worship is the mark of the 
  beast?Marlin halverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote: 
  



It seems that with very narrow exceptions, all roads 
lead to Rome.  As the Virginia Slims cigarette commercial said to the 
'liberated woman,' "You've come a long way baby."  It is now time for 
that corporate body, which has a papal form of government, to 
take "Rome's Challenge" of 1893.  
 
--Marlin
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 9:12 
  PM
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Re:WWCofG lives 
  on
  
  
  
  Years ago, when I too, was a legalist,  I enjoyed listening to 
  Herbert W Armstrong and Garner Ted. 
   
  But they lost me with their emphasis on the Old LAw.  Many of 
  their arguments  --  such as "against evolution"  --  
  were actually very good.  
   
  Anyway  --   Carner Ted did the twist with one 
  of the sisters and Herbert died in the mid 80"s
   
  and something very unusual happened to this fellowship.  I don't 
  know what to think about all the changes,  but one very important 
  change was the "end of the law" and life in a relationship with the 
  Christ.
   
  You just might find this article interesting.   
   
  http://www.wcg.org/lit/AboutUs/history.htm
   
   
   
  Jd
  __Do You 
  Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
  http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:WWCofG lives on

[Marlin halverson]

Sunday worship in your eyes 
is then a symptom of what? Kevin Deegan 

I believe it, instead of Sabbath keeping, is a 
symptom of the strong delusion mentioned in 2 Thesolonians 2 and a fulfillment 
of Isaiah 56.
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 12:19 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:WWCofG lives 
  on
  
  Sunday worship in your eyes is then a symptom of 
  what?Marlin halverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote: 
  

Do you believe Sunday 
Worship is the mark of the beast? Kevin Deegan 

Although it, 
instead of Sabbath keeping, may be a symptom, it is not 'the' mark of 
the beast.  
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 12:26 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:WWCofG 
  lives on
  
  Do you believe Sunday Worship is the mark of the 
      beast?Marlin halverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote: 
  



It seems that with very narrow exceptions, all 
roads lead to Rome.  As the Virginia Slims cigarette commercial 
said to the 'liberated woman,' "You've come a long way baby."  It 
is now time for that corporate body, which has a papal form of 
government, to take "Rome's Challenge" of 1893.  

 
--Marlin
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 9:12 
  PM
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Re:WWCofG 
  lives on
  
  
  
  Years ago, when I too, was a legalist,  I enjoyed listening 
  to Herbert W Armstrong and Garner Ted. 
   
  But they lost me with their emphasis on the Old LAw.  Many 
  of their arguments  --  such as "against evolution"  
  --  were actually very good.  
   
  Anyway  --   Carner Ted did the twist with 
  one of the sisters and Herbert died in the mid 80"s
   
  and something very unusual happened to this fellowship.  I 
  don't know what to think about all the changes,  but one very 
  important change was the "end of the law" and life in a relationship 
  with the Christ.
   
  You just might find this article interesting.   
   
  http://www.wcg.org/lit/AboutUs/history.htm
   
   
   
  Jd
  __Do You 
  Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
  http://mail.yahoo.com 
  __Do You 
  Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
  http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:WWCofG lives on

[Marlin halverson]

Those who love God and keep His commandments are not to 
let other men judge them for these 
wonderful blessings.  
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 9:23 
PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:WWCofG lives 
  on
  
  What then of this scripture?
  Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or 
  in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath 
  daysMarlin halverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote:
  

Sunday worship in your 
eyes is then a symptom of what? Kevin Deegan 

I believe it, instead of Sabbath keeping, is a 
symptom of the strong delusion mentioned in 2 Thesolonians 2 and a 
fulfillment of Isaiah 56.
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Kevin Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 12:19 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:WWCofG 
  lives on
  
  Sunday worship in your eyes is then a symptom of 
  what?Marlin halverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote: 
  

Do you believe Sunday 
Worship is the mark of the beast? Kevin Deegan 

Although 
it, instead of Sabbath keeping, may be a symptom, it is not 'the' 
mark of the beast.  
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 12:26 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 
  Re:WWCofG lives on
  
  Do you believe Sunday Worship is the mark of the 
  beast?Marlin halverson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote: 
  



It seems that with very narrow exceptions, all 
roads lead to Rome.  As the Virginia Slims cigarette commercial 
said to the 'liberated woman,' "You've come a long way baby."  
It is now time for that corporate body, which has a papal 
form of government, to take "Rome's Challenge" of 
1893.  
 
--Marlin
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 
  9:12 PM
  Subject: [TruthTalk] 
  Re:WWCofG lives on
  
  
  
  Years ago, when I too, was a legalist,  I enjoyed 
  listening to Herbert W Armstrong and Garner Ted. 
   
  But they lost me with their emphasis on the Old LAw.  
  Many of their arguments  --  such as "against 
  evolution"  --  were actually very good.  
   
  Anyway  --   Carner Ted did the twist 
  with one of the sisters and Herbert died in the mid 80"s
   
  and something very unusual happened to this fellowship.  
  I don't know what to think about all the changes,  but one 
  very important change was the "end of the law" and life in a 
  relationship with the Christ.
   
  You just might find this article interesting.   
  
   
  http://www.wcg.org/lit/AboutUs/history.htm
   
   
   
  Jd
  __Do You 
  Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection 
  around http://mail.yahoo.com 
  __Do You 
  Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
  http://mail.yahoo.com 
  __Do You 
  Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
  http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [TruthTalk] Re:WWCofG lives on

[Marlin halverson]

Try  halversonfamilyfarmcom .
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Dave Hansen 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 12:25 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:WWCofG lives 
  on
  DAVEH:  You are never too old to have your picture posted 
  on the TT members page!   How about it, Marlinwhy don't you 
  submit a picture to DavidM so we can see what you look like?   (If 
  that is too much trouble for you, I think I saw some when I was searching for 
  Perry's picture that may look like you....)    :-) Marlin halverson wrote: 
  


I'm 
  oooll

Re: [TruthTalk] **Moderator comment**: JFK

[Marlin halverson]

http://www.911wasalie.com/phpwebsite/


- Original Message - 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 9:38 AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] **Moderator comment**: JFK



IFF one believes there was any such conspiracy re: 9/11, one needs to be
immediately committed to the looney bin.  Izzy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 1:52 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] **Moderator comment**: JFK

Belief/trust...trust/belief...These are so interlocked. The other night I
listened to a panel discussion on 911 (WTC). IFF one is able to 
demonstrate

'conspiracy' (complicity) on the part of government operatives or agencies
then, by extension JFK has significance for discussion. For starters have 
a

look at the 'new' extended edition of Oliver Stone's JFK (2001?).I'm in,
John.


- Original Message - 
From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: June 19, 2005 20:48
Subject: [TruthTalk] **Moderator comment**: JFK



John, unless you have discovered a videotaped confession to show us, I
personally am not that interested.

   However, the TT "Discussions" page states: " If you have an interest 
in

the Bible, religion, philosophy, or science, we encourage you to join the
list and engage in the discussions." Does this topic fall into one of

those

general categories? If so, give it a shot.

Perry

>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Would any in he forum care for a brief dicsussion of the issues that are

in

>play with the JFK assassination  ...
>
>JD


--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may

know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org


If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to

[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
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--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know

how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
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--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org


If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.



--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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Re: [TruthTalk] **Moderator comment**: JFK

[Marlin halverson]

Try "majesty twelve"

http://seekers.100megs6.com/FYI-2.htm

- Original Message - 
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] **Moderator comment**: JFK



So then, Marlin.where do you 'shake out' on this?

- Original Message - 
From: "Marlin halverson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: June 21, 2005 07:55
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] **Moderator comment**: JFK



http://www.911wasalie.com/phpwebsite/


- Original Message - 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 9:38 AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] **Moderator comment**: JFK


> IFF one believes there was any such conspiracy re: 9/11, one needs to 
> be

> immediately committed to the looney bin.  Izzy
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 1:52 AM
> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] **Moderator comment**: JFK
>
> Belief/trust...trust/belief...These are so interlocked. The other night

I

> listened to a panel discussion on 911 (WTC). IFF one is able to
> demonstrate
> 'conspiracy' (complicity) on the part of government operatives or

agencies

> then, by extension JFK has significance for discussion. For starters

have

> a
> look at the 'new' extended edition of Oliver Stone's JFK (2001?).I'm 
> in,

> John.
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> To: 
> Sent: June 19, 2005 20:48
> Subject: [TruthTalk] **Moderator comment**: JFK
>
>
>> John, unless you have discovered a videotaped confession to show us, I
>> personally am not that interested.
>>
>>However, the TT "Discussions" page states: " If you have an 
>> interest

>> in
>> the Bible, religion, philosophy, or science, we encourage you to join

the

>> list and engage in the discussions." Does this topic fall into one of
> those
>> general categories? If so, give it a shot.
>>
>> Perry
>>
>> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >
>> >Would any in he forum care for a brief dicsussion of the issues that

are

> in
>> >play with the JFK assassination  ...
>> >
>> >JD
>>
>>
>> --
>> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you 
>> may

> know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
> http://www.InnGlory.org
>>
>> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have 
> a

> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>
>
> --
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
> know
> how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
> http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have 
> a

> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>
> --
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
> know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
> http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have 
> a

> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>
--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may

know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org


If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to

[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.


--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org


If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.



--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Blainerb back from Jackson Hole Wyoming

[Marlin halverson]

What is IMO?  I've seen this being used, but 
what is it?
 
International Maritime Organization

International Mathematical Olympiad 
Icelandic Meteorolocical Office
International Mail Order 
Inner Mountain Outfitters 
International Meteor Organization
Imo's Pizza? 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 11:30 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Blainerb back 
  from Jackson Hole Wyoming
  
  "...IMO, there should not be anything too hard for the average guy 
  ..."
  Blainerb
   
  Hmmm, my spelling program says I just misspelled my name 
?

Re: [TruthTalk] Keeping the Commandments

[Marlin halverson]

PMFBI 

  Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear 
  God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.  
  ECC 12:13   
Was Solomon stupid?  
 
--Marlin
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 8:29 AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Keeping the 
  Commandments
  
  SO you keep them Dave?
  All of them?
  If your boss gave you 10 instructions to 
  follow every day at work, would you expect employee of the month for keeping 
  just 8?Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  DAVEH:   
Ohhh Terry.what do you want me to doopen the closet door so you 
can see all the skeletons I keep in 
there?   :-)     
However, I am curious as to your explanation.  Do you really believe 
the Lord does not expect you to keep the commandments?  Terry 
Clifton wrote: 
Dave wrote: 
  DAVEH:   What part of the Law God gave Moses do 
you think was unkeepable, Terry?  
==Since 
  Paul says that if you break one law you have broken the whole law, I would 
  say the whole law was unkeepable.  If I were a Jew living under the 
  law, I would have broken most of them.  If I were under that law 
  today I would have broken most of them.  Thank God, I am not under 
  the law.How many of them do you 
keep?-- 
 ~~~
 Dave Hansen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.langlitz.com
 ~~~
 If you wish to receive
 things I find interesting,
 I maintain six email lists...
 JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
 STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.


  __Do You 
  Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Keeping the Commandments

[Marlin halverson]

"...God gave him 
wisdom.  He did not use it." Terry
 
So did he fail to heed the 
conclusion of the matter?  Marlin


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Terry Clifton 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 10:30 
AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Keeping the 
  Commandments
  Marlin halverson wrote: 
  


PMFBI 

  Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear 
  God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of 
  man.  ECC 12:13   
Was Solomon stupid?  
 
--Marlin
=Soloman 
  was most definetly stupid.  He started out on good terms with God and 
  ended up worshipping idols.  God gave him wisdom.  He did not use 
  it.Terry
   

Re: [TruthTalk] help

[Marlin halverson]

 
http://www.dreamscapecom/morgana/leda.htm


TWA 800 Investigationby Ian Williams Goddard
"Traces of the explosive PETN (used in both bombs and guided missiles) were 
found on the debris of TWA flight 800, which crashed off the Long Island shore 
on July 17, 1996 killing 230 people. The crash has been classified as an 
accident. 
The finding of PETN was, however, not revealed to the public at an FBI or 
NTSB press conference. The only reason this most significant discovery became 
known to the American people was because several high-level investigators leaked 
the information to the New York Times. " http://www.dreamscapecom/morgana/leda.htm 
also: 
http://wwwnewsmax.com/articles/?a=1999/3/29/111323
 
http://www.coverups.com/twa/friendly2.htm
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 8:39 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] help
  
  
   
   Does anyone know the number of the flight that was shot down off 
  the coast of Florida two or three years ago  --  flight 108 I 
  thought.   but I cannot find any info on this 
  flight.  I must have something wrong.  
   
  JD

[TruthTalk] Genetically Modified Foods

[Marlin halverson]

I think genetically modified foods should be clearly 
labeled so that I may choose not to eat them.
 
Shortcut: http://www.thecampaign.org/kraft/
Adding rat genes to lettuce, or swine genes to tomatoes 
makes them "unclean."
http://www.thecampaign.org/newsupdates/july01x.htm
 
--Marlin

Re: [TruthTalk] from WND.com

[Marlin halverson]

Texas Pastor Electrocuted During BaptismBy ANGELA K. 
BROWNThe Associated 
Press
WACO, Texas - The University Baptist Church band had just led the 
congregation in praise songs when the Rev. Kyle Lake stepped into a tank on the 
stage to baptize a new member, something he did several times a year.
As a packed room of more than 800 people watched, Lake cried out and then 
fell backward.
Several doctors in the Sunday morning crowd rushed up and pulled the 
33-year-old pastor from the water, but Lake had been electrocuted. He was 
pronounced dead shortly afterward at a hospital.
Some at the service, which was packed for Baylor University homecoming 
weekend, said Lake had adjusted a microphone outside the tank. Others said it 
appeared a piece of equipment fell into the water.
"It happened so fast; no one knew what was going on," said Sam Larson, a 
Minneapolis seminary student who was in Waco visiting fellow Baylor graduates. 
"It was horrible. Kyle was a guy who loved everybody; he didn't care who you 
were. And everybody who met him loved him."
Waco police believe it was an accident, said police spokesman Steve 
Anderson.
Detectives and the city's inspection department on Monday examined the 
church's electrical system, microphones and band equipment to try to determine 
exactly what happened, he said.
Randy Childers, who oversees code enforcement for the city, said officials 
also were reviewing previous inspection reports and permits for the building, 
which housed a supermarket before the church moved in about 10 years ago.
The funeral service for Lake, who was married and had a 5-year-old daughter 
and 3-year-old twin sons, was planned for Tuesday at Waco's First Baptist 
Church.

  
  

  
  
Lake, a Tyler native, graduated from Baylor in 1994 and the school's Truett 
Seminary in 1997.
He had been a pastor at University Baptist Church for seven year. The church 
had grown to about 600 members since it was founded in 1995 as a contemporary 
church for students at nearby Baylor, the world's largest Baptist 
university.
"He could speak students' language, and he could capture their attention and 
hold it," said Jeter Basden, Baylor's director of ministry guidance and one of 
Lake's professors. "He was funny and deep, and he could communicate with someone 
who didn't have a church background."
Since news of Lake's death began spreading, several Baptist pastors have 
talked about making sure their baptism practices are safe, said David Hardage, 
executive director of the Waco Baptist Association.
But he said the tragedy won't end the tradition of completely submersing 
someone during a baptism, which symbolizes a Christian's belief that Jesus 
Christ died on the cross and rose from the dead. The woman who was to be 
baptized Sunday wasn't injured, church officials said.
"It's an integral part of the Baptist faith," Hardage said. "For Baptists, we 
don't believe that baptism is an act of salvation. We believe baptism is an act 
of obedience and a testimony for what you believe."
-
AP staff writer Anabelle Garay in Dallas contributed to this 
report.

Re: [TruthTalk] Campus Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?

[Marlin halverson]

To add to what David Miller wrote, you might be 
interested in studying these short law courses:
 
TITLE 42/CIVIL RIGHTS CLASS, and the 
BASIC COURTROOM STRATEGY 
& PROCEDURE CLASS
http://www.georgegordon.net/Classes.htm#title42

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  Moore 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 6:47 
  AM
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Campus 
  Preaching-Kevin Deegan / David Miller?
  
  cd: Do you guys know the laws 
  concerning Campus Preaching? The security at WCU keep insisting that I can 
  preach in only two areas on Campus which works good while student are in 
  school-but if an event such as games and concerts..etc is held then I 
  am stuck on the other side of campus where no one can hear (ie. the 
  same two areas)?When I go to those events I am meet with great 
  resistance. Have you ran into this problem? I know under the freedom of 
  Speech I have the right to be herd but also can be controlled using that right 
  -as in time ,place and manner. How about the freedom of religion -isn't there 
  some help using that right? Any help you can give will be appreciated.May God 
  bless you brothers :-)
   
  
   
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 11/1/2005 8:14:50 PM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] IS THIS A 
GREAT COUNTRY, OR WHAT?

This is a TRUE story! It is not an Urban legend.
http://www.wtv-zone.com/Mary/THISWILLMAKEYOUPROUD.HTML
Brian Chontosh
http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/lookupstoryref/200456162723
__Do You 
Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

[TruthTalk] Souls beheaded for the witness of Jesus

[Marlin Halverson]

Muslims Hack 
CongregationAccording to the Christian Association of Nigeria 
(CAN) and Christian Solidarity Worldwide (CSW) on February 24th as many as 400 
heavily armed Muslims, shouting the jihad cry of "Allah u Akhbar" (God is 
great), marched into a Christian morning prayer service in Yelwa, Nigeria, 
ordered the 48 member congregation to lie face down and proceeded "to machete 
and axe them to death in their house of worship." "I saw the souls of them that 
were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God..."On The Net: 
http://www.assistnews.net/Stories/s04030033.htm

[TruthTalk] What's in Vaccines?

[Marlin Halverson]

What's in Vaccines?
http://befreetech.com/vaccine_poisons.htm 
human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal 
tissue) 

Re: [TruthTalk] POLYANYI

[Marlin Halverson]

I just wanted to say that I appreciate the things being 
shared.  This thread of discourse is most revealing.  
 
There are the originators of knowledge, those who 
experience or discover it first hand.  And then there are the purveyors of 
knowledge, who pass along what others say without first hand, direct 
experience.  Most of the "NEWS" we hear is from radio, TV, or printed 
reporting.  In academics, there are those who repeat what they have been 
taught rather than what they have truly learned first hand.  Many 
preachers/pastors behave like reporters and repeaters.  
 
The living Word of God, who now comes in the flesh 
through His people, indwells our lives gives us first hand experience as we 
exercise faith and trust in him for all things.
 
There is a place for wells and a place for 
conduits.
 
May God so richly bless you,
 
--Marlin

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Wm. Taylor 
  
  David M. and Izzy,
   
  I am sending a quote from Lesslie 
  Newbigin."There is thought to be a kind of knowledge for which 
  one does not have to depend on faith, and there is another kind which is 
  only available by the exercise of 
faith."

Re: [TruthTalk] POLYANYI

[Marlin Halverson]

 
Knowledge, truth or lie, comes from or through these 
means:
 
Originate = To come or bring into being; 
begin
Purvey = to supply (food, information, etc.), to 
furnish
Disseminate = To scatter or spread 
widely 
 
Notice Paul's prophesy of these in the last 
days:
 
"Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more 
than lovers of God;        
    Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: 

    
from such turn away.
For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and 
lead 
captive    
silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
Ever learning, and never able to come to the 
knowledge of the truth.
Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these 
also 
resist    the 
truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith."  2TIM 
3:4-9
 
--Marlin

  - Original Message ----- 
  From: 
  Marlin Halverson 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 8:25 
AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] POLYANYI
  
  I just wanted to say that I appreciate the things being 
  shared.  This thread of discourse is most revealing.  
   
  There are the originators of knowledge, those who 
  experience or discover it first hand.  And then there are the purveyors 
  of knowledge, who pass along what others say without first hand, direct 
  experience.  Most of the "NEWS" we hear is from radio, TV, or printed 
  reporting.  In academics, there are those who repeat what they have been 
  taught rather than what they have truly learned first hand.  Many 
  preachers/pastors behave like reporters and repeaters.  
   
  The living Word of God, who now comes in the flesh 
  through His people, indwells our lives gives us first hand experience as 
  we exercise faith and trust in him for all things.
   
  There is a place for wells and a place for 
  conduits.
   
  May God so richly bless you,
   
  --Marlin
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Wm. 
Taylor 
David M. and Izzy,
 
I am sending a quote from Lesslie 
Newbigin."There is thought to be a kind of knowledge for which 
one does not have to depend on faith, and there is another kind which 
is only available by the exercise of 
faith."

Re: [TruthTalk] Getting to know you.

[Marlin Halverson]

Who's next? Terry
My family just spent the evening with other brethren 
singing praises to God.  
 
As far as mind games and endless argumentation, it never 
ends.  I can easily get involved and say something if I feel led to do 
so.  I love to enjoy the creation also.
 
But, what is most important to my life is the relationship 
developing between my family and God.  We are applying his word in our 
lives to the best of our ability.  I marvel at the way the holy spirit is 
leading my wife and children as we struggle together to make ends 
meet.  Tomorrow begins six more days of hard work, growing beautiful 
plants and sending them to market.  We sing together when we can.  We 
need each other.  
 
--Marlin

Re: [TruthTalk] Getting to know you.

[Marlin Halverson]

Very kind thoughts, Izzy.  If we were closer 
neighbors, that would be nice, but, outside of our marketing area it 
is not economically sound  because of the transportation 
costs.  A neighbor closed down his business, which was an offshoot of the 
one that preceded ours.  Thus we now service more than 100 florists in 
the eastern part of Kentucky, within about a 150 mile radius.  Most of what 
we supply to the florists is used in funeral homes to comfort those who have 
lost their loved ones.  In the Spring and Fall, we also supply plants to 
garden centers.  
 
Of concern to me is conducting business in a way that 
pleases God and develops character and training in my home-schooled 
children.  Proverbs 22:6 says "Train up a child in the way he should go: 
and when he is old, he will not depart from it."  This is my greatest 
God-ordained responsibility as a parent.  It is not a job to pawn off on a 
"church."  I believe that training a child "in the way that HE should go" 
takes into account individual aptitudes and abilities and interests, and 
matching these to opportunities that we can do our best to provide.  I 
believe that training a child "in the way that he SHOULD go" takes into account 
the commandments of God which we will keep if we love Him.  One way to 
appreciate God in return for His many blessings and benefits, resulting from 
our obedience and His grace, is to praise Him with 
songs. 
 
Musically, we are not what one calls 
"professionals."  That is not our aim, so much as it is to edify one 
another and to praise God.  There are CD recorders available now, but they 
are expensive.  We hope to acquire one some day.  The CDs themselves 
are cheap.  
--Marlin
  

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 3:36 
AM
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Getting to know 
  you.
  
  
  Marlin, You are 
  precious. Perhaps some of us on TT could purchase our spring plants directly 
  from your business. Is that possible??? Or do you just sell to local 
  wholesalers? Would you let us know if there was something we could do to bless 
  your family? We are all struggling in one way or another, and we need to help 
  each other if we can. Have you and your family ever produced a musical C.D.? 
  Seems like there’s a lot of talent there. Izzy
   
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  On Behalf Of Marlin 
  HalversonSent: Saturday, 
  March 27, 2004 9:23 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Getting to know 
  you.
   
  
  Who's next? 
  Terry
  
  My family just spent the evening 
  with other brethren singing praises to God.  
  
  
   
  
  As far as mind games and endless 
  argumentation, it never ends.  I can easily get involved and say 
  something if I feel led to do so.  I love to enjoy the creation 
  also.
  
   
  
  But, what is most important to my 
  life is the relationship developing between my family and God.  We 
  are applying his word in our lives to the best of our ability.  I marvel 
  at the way the holy spirit is leading my wife and children as we struggle 
  together to make ends meet.  Tomorrow begins six more days of 
  hard work, growing beautiful plants and sending them to market.  We sing 
  together when we can.  We need each other.  
  
  
   
  
  --Marlin

Re: [TruthTalk] Rated "R"

[Marlin Halverson]

RECENTLY HEARD ON THE MORNING LIGHT SHOW:


  Why "The Passion of Christ" is Rated R

  The "R" of course is because of the violence, the gore.

  In movie terms "R" stands for RESTRICTED,
  but in this movie "R" stands for RELEVANT,
  for REALISTIC,
  for it REALLY happened for a REASON
  because we were REBELLIOUS
  we needed a REDEEMER,
  we needed to be RECONCILED,
  we needed to be RECOVERED,
  we needed to be REGENERATED.

  Jesus needed to be REJECTED
  so that we could have a RELATIONSHIP
  not just a RELIGION.

  The "R" is to REMIND
  us to REMEMBER what Jesus did to
  REMOVE our sin to RENDER Satan powerless,
  to RESCUE us from eternity in hell.

  The "R" rating is to show that
  Jesus was RESPONSIBLE for giving you REST.

  As a RESULT of his death Jesus RETIRED your debt.

  The "R" rating means that some will be REPULSED,
  some will REFUSE to believe,
  some will be RELUCTANT,
  some will think you are RIDICULOUS
  in believing that a death was REQUIRED.

  The "R" rating means
  that the RESULT of sin has been
  REVERSED and now through faith in
  Christ your REWARD is eternity and
  you are now RIGHTEOUS before God
  because you have RECEIVED
  him as the RULER of your soul.

  What a REVOLUTIONARY and
  RADICAL solution to REDEEM mankind.

--
  Tim Stevenson, Senior Pastor
  Horizon Community Church
  Galt, California

- Original Message - 
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 5:03 PM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Rated "R"


> Thanks, but it was sent to me by a friend.  I don't know who wrote it, as
it
> wasn't attached. But it IS good preach'in! Izzy
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
> Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 10:45 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Rated "R"
>
> Amen sister!!! Good preachin' Lance
> - Original Message - 
> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: April 02, 2004 11:40
> Subject: [TruthTalk] Rated "R"
>
>
> >
> > The movie - the PASSION OF CHRIST is rated "R":
> >
> > The "R" of course is because of the violence, the gore..
> >
> > In movie terms "R" stands for RESTRICTED , but in this movie
> >
> > "R" stands for RELEVANT , for REALISTIC , for it
> >
> > REALLY happened for a REASON because we were
> >
> > REBELIOUS we needed a REDEEMER , we needed to be
> >
> > RECONCILED , we needed to be RECOVERED , we needed
> >
> > to be REGENERATED . Jesus needed to be REJECTED so
> >
> > that we could have a RELATIONSHIP not just a
> >
> > RELIGION . The "R" is to REMIND us to REMEMBER
> >
> > what Jesus did to REMOVE our sin to RENDER Satan
> >
> > powerless, to RESCUE us from eternity in hell. The "R" rating is
> >
> > to show that Jesus was RESPONSIBLE for giving you
> >
> > REST . As a RESULT of his death Jesus RETIRED your
> >
> > debt. The "R" rating means that some will be REPULSED ,
> >
> > some will REFUSE to believe, some will be RELUCTANT ,
> >
> > some will think you are RIDICULOUS in believing that a
> >
> > death was REQUIRED . The "R" rating means that the
> >
> > RESULT of sin has been REVERSED and now through faith
> >
> > in Christ your REWARD is eternity and you are now
> >
> > RIGHTEOUS before God because you have RECEIVED
> >
> > him as the RULER of your soul. What a REVOLUTIONARY
> >
> > and RADICAL solution to REDEEM mankind.
> >
> > REJOICE !!!
> >
> > He is RISEN!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
> know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
> http://www.InnGlory.org
> >
> > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>
>
> --
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know
> how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
> http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>
>
> --
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>
--
"

[TruthTalk] Passion of the Christ "R" Rating Article is by Tim Stevenson

[Marlin Halverson]

I wanted to find out who wrote the clever article about 
the R rating of the Passion.  I found this source over the Internet and 
Tim Stevenson claims authorship.
 
- Original Message - 
From: Tim Stevenson 

To: Marlin Halverson 
Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2004 10:44 AM
Subject: RE: Passion of the Christ "R" Rating Article

Yes I 
am.
Tim 
Stevenson
 

  -Original Message-From: Marlin Halverson 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 
  8:20 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: 
  Passion of the Christ "R" Rating Article
  Are you the author of the following?
   
  The movie - the PASSION OF CHRIST is rated "R":The 
  "R" of course is because of the violence, the gore.. In movie 
  terms "R" stands for RESTRICTED , but in this movie"R" stands for 
  RELEVANT , for REALISTIC , for itREALLY happened for a REASON because 
  we wereREBELIOUS we needed a REDEEMER , we needed to 
  beRECONCILED , we needed to be RECOVERED , we neededto be 
  REGENERATED . Jesus needed to be REJECTED sothat we could have a 
  RELATIONSHIP not just aRELIGION . The "R" is to REMIND us to 
  REMEMBERwhat Jesus did to REMOVE our sin to RENDER 
  Satanpowerless, to RESCUE us from eternity in hell. The "R" rating 
  isto show that Jesus was RESPONSIBLE for giving youREST . As a 
  RESULT of his death Jesus RETIRED yourdebt. The "R" rating means that 
  some will be REPULSED ,some will REFUSE to believe, some will be 
  RELUCTANT ,.

[TruthTalk] What about this William Penn, Quaker writing?

[Marlin Halverson]

Dear participants on TruthTalk,
 
I have the privelege of knowing some Quakers, some of my 
dearest freinds.  They have done considerable study into the origins of 
their own faith.  
 
I asked them about what Chris Barr has said concerning 
Wiliam Penn's beliefs about 
"the trinity," "oneness," and Penn's other beliefs.  
Here is what they testify:
 
- Original Message - 
Sent: Thursday, April 
08, 2004 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: What about this William Penn, Quaker 
writing?
First of all, none but a handful of Quakers 
throughout history ever kept the Sabbath. I think today there are only two -- me 
and my wife. Second, William Penn, like all conservative Friends, did not hold 
to the trinity doctrine but believed that the Father God, the God of Abraham, 
Isaac and Jacob, has, and sent His son Jesus (Yeshua if you wish) to redeem 
mankind. Two distinct personalities. Two distinct persons (for lack of better 
terms) , one created by the other (in unknowable worlds before us) and one who 
calls the other "God." Ref John 20:17 No personage is given to the Spirit of God 
because it is a PART of God's makeup not God in whole. Jesus said in John 
16:13-15, "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into 
all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that 
shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.  He shall glorify me: 
for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.  All things that 
the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and 
shall shew it unto you."Clearly the Spirit is one of the things "God hath" 
or a power or manifestation of God but not wholly God Himself. The Spirit of God 
is the selfsame Spirit that is in you. God's Spirit -- in you -- just as it was 
in Christ. John 14:17-18, "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot 
receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he 
dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.  I will not leave you comfortless: 
[Here Jesus equates the Spirit with Himself] I will come to you."William 
Penn's Writing falls short of the oneness doctrine as much as it does the 
trinity doctrine. In reality the writing is somewhat a "hedged bet" (if the 
Quaker brethren will forgive me). He said that he was opposed to using the TERM 
"trinity" because it was not a word from Scripture. He called it a Schoolmen's 
term. He actually goes on to say that he believes in the "three that bear record 
in heaven" not knowing that the 1st John 5:7 Scripture was of dubious origin, 
for it had not yet been discovered missing in earlier transcripts.No, on 
the trinity William Penn, though he is a hero of mine offers little ammunition 
to dispel the false doctrine. But he offers less to anyone claiming that Yeshua 
and Yahweh are one and the same.I've told you before that the Internet 
is a cesspool of cowards who get a false sense of accomplishment by arguing 
points using trite sayings, cut and paste arguments, and electronic gimmickry 
and whether they win or lose their argument they do so with people who have no 
commitment to true discovery. All of their life they will stare into the "dark 
glass" of their computers and never face to face with flesh and blood. The chat 
room is the platform of cowards and the showplace of ignorance.  "Having 
many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: (Computers) 
but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face..." 2 John 1:12Let 
me share with you the Scripture that we chose as the theme for the feast -- it 
seems appropriate:"As much as you can aim to know your neighbors and consult 
with the wise, Let your conversation be with intelligent people, and let all of 
your discussion be about the Law of the Most High."Sirach 
9:14-15Don

Re: [TruthTalk] What about this William Penn, Quaker writing?

[Marlin Halverson]

Can you get a copy of the writings that you referred to 
and post them?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Chris Barr 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 2:35 
AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] What about this 
  William Penn, Quaker writing?
  
  
  \o/ 
  !HALALUYah! 
  \o/ 
  
  
  Greetings Marlin et al in the Matchless 
  Name of YahShua !!
   
  I, too, have had the privilege of knowing some Quakers through the years 
  and becoming somewhat close to a 
  few.

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Children

[Marlin Halverson]

I remember a family in a fellowship I was with where the little girl prayed
that God would let her have identical twin brothers.  Her mother was not
pregnant, was not planning to be pregnant, and there were not twins in the
family.

About a year later, the mother gave birth to identical twin boys.

--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to 
send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Children

[Marlin Halverson]

- Original Message - 
From: "Judy Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 12:18 PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Christian Children


> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> I remember a family in a fellowship I was with where the little
> girl prayed that God would let her have identical twin brothers.
> Her mother was not pregnant, was not planning to be pregnant,
> and there were not twins in the family.  About a year later, the
> mother gave birth to identical twin boys.
>
> jt: Marvin, did/do you believe that this prayer was motivated by
> the Spirit of God?

Yes.

Did your leadership have anything to say about
> it?

Nothing was ever said.

Are you sure this was not divination?

It was a child's expectant prayer to God.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.

Nobody made any big deal about it.  We all just smiled and were happy for
the family about their blessing.

>
> BTW was that the same Tim Stevenson or are there
> two of them?  judyt

What?
Why are you asking me about this unfamiliar name out of the blue?

--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to 
send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Children

[Marlin Halverson]

Oh.  Yes.  Somebody with that name claimed to be 
the author of the piece.  I do not know anything about him.  But you 
are welcome to do your own search to find out.  I like to know the source 
of an article.

  > BTW was that the same Tim Stevenson or are there> two of 
  them?  judyt
   
  What?Why are you asking me about this unfamiliar name out of the 
  blue?
   
  jt: Did I misunderstand or was it you who posted on 
  TT that the "R"
  piece about the Passion Movie by Mel Gibson was 
  written by one Tim
  Stevenson?  This is the man I am referring to - 
  I found one who is
  Canadian both religious and politician and also 
  gay.  Just wondering
  if it is the same person.    
  judyt
   
  

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Children

[Marlin Halverson]

The answered prayers of a child are cause to suspect 
demons?  I think not.

   
  jt: Of course I can understand everyone being happy 
  for the family
  but it's important that we understand God's ways 
  because right now
  the Church is full of divination and nobody seems to 
  know or care
  Some are closed to anything supernatural and the 
  others are wide
  open to everything that comes along and looks 
  good.

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Children

[Marlin Halverson]

 
The family members of those who are called, children and 
spouses, are sanctified by the believing family member.  They are made 
clean and holy.  
 
Now, that woman in Texas who murdered her children and 
quoted scripture to justify her actions had a train of thought such as you have 
expressed.  Her thinking was indeed inspired by the devil.  (See 
Below)
 
1CO 7:14    For the unbelieving husband is 
sanctified by the wife, and 
the    
unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were 
your    
children unclean; but now are they holy.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 3:35 
PM
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Christian 
  Children
  
  jt: Divination and deception are one and the 
  same.  Why just assume
  that demons will not work through a child?  
  Everyone who comes
  into this world has a fallen Adamic nature and this 
  includes every
  child.  Usually it doesn't take long for it to 
  express itself either. judyt
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  The answered prayers of a child are cause to suspect 
  demons?  I think not.
  
 
jt: Of course I can understand everyone being happy 
for the family
but it's important that we understand God's ways 
because right now
the Church is full of divination and nobody seems 
to know or care
Some are closed to anything supernatural and the 
others are wide
open to everything that comes along and looks 
good.
 

Mom says God told her to stone sons

  
  


  AP file photo
  Deanna Laney called 911 just after midnight on May 10 
  and told a dispatcher: "I've just killed my boys." 

Associated PressMar. 29, 2004 06:03 PM

TYLER, 
Texas - A mother who bashed her sons' heads with heavy rocks, killing two of 
the boys, was so delusional she thought the Lord told her to do it, her 
attorney said Monday in opening statements at her murder trial."Does 
she follow what she believes to be God's will or does she turn her back on 
her God?" defense attorney F.R. "Buck" Files Jr. asked the jury of eight men 
and four women.Deanna Laney, a 39-year-old stay-at-home mother, has 
pleaded innocent by reason of insanity to charges of murdering 8-year-old 
Joshua and 6-year-old Luke and causing serious injury to Aaron, 14 months 
old at the time. Prosecutors are not seeking the death penalty.The 
deeply religious East Texas woman who home-schooled her children in the tiny 
town of New Chapel Hill, 100 miles southeast of Dallas, wept uncontrollably 
and shook her head, at times burying her face in a tissue, as she listened 
to testimony and prosecutors showed gruesome photographs of her slain 
children.Her husband, who has supported her, sat a few rows behind 
with friends and family.Prosecutors contend Laney knew right from 
wrong when she killed her children last Mother's Day weekend, despite 
opinions from two psychiatric experts for the defense, two for the 
prosecution and one for the judge - all of whom said Laney was legally 
insane."The issue of sanity is tried in the court, not the 
hospitals," District Attorney Matt Bingham told the jury.Prosecutors 
played a tape of a 911 call in which Laney, in her high, dainty voice, 
calmly told a dispatcher after midnight on May 10: "I just killed my boys." 
She also described the color of her house and directed authorities to her 
home."I just did what I had to do," she told the 
dispatcher.Later in the tape, she appeared to doubt whether she 
should have beaten the baby, saying, "I don't think I did right by Aaron." 
She later said, "I don't think I was supposed to kill him."In his 
opening statement, the district attorney told the jury: "The evidence will 
show you that the last thing Josh and Luke Laney ever saw was their mom with 
a rock over their head and the last thing they ever felt was that rock 
crashing over their head."Bingham said Laney attacked the baby 
first, hammering his head with a 4 1/2-pound rock she had hidden under 
his crib. When he began crying, Laney's husband, Keith, woke up and found 
his wife standing over the baby."Everything's OK," she told 
him.He assumed his wife was changing a diaper and went back to bed. 
Laney then struck the baby again, and after hearing a gurgling from the 
blood in Aaron's throat, she covered him with a pillow and left the room, 
Bingham said."Aaron Laney will never be the same," said Bingham, 
adding that the boy's vision has been impaired and he will never live 
independently.With Aaron's blood on her pajamas, Laney then woke up 
Luke, led him outside the family's rural brick home and asked him to put his 
head on a large rock, the prosecutor said."He does what his Mommy 
tells him," Bingham s

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Children

[Marlin Halverson]

I was beginning to worry about you.  
 
I do not subscribe to the idea of children being born 
evil.  God said that what He created was "very good."  It is our 
influences and actions as we age that corrupts us.  Jesus said that we need 
the innocence of a child to receive the Kingdom of God.
 
LUK 18:17   {Verily I say unto you, Whosoever 
shall not receive the kingdom 
of    God as 
a little child shall in no wise enter therein.}

  [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  The family members of those who are called, children and 
  spouses, 
  are sanctified by the believing family member.  
  They are made clean and holy.  
   
  jt: Sanctified in 1 Cor 7:14 means set 
  apart for God to work upon; the
  ones who are in unbelief still need to 
  make their own committment; God does
  not make ppl clean and holy by osmosis and 
  without their cooperation.
   
  Now, that woman in Texas who murdered her children and 
  quoted scripture 
  to justify her actions had a train of thought such as 
  you have expressed.  Her 
  thinking was indeed inspired by the devil.  
  
  (See http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0329ChildrenSlain29-ON.html)
   
  jt: I agree because murder is never God's 
  plan, the woman was listening to the
  father of lies who was a murderer 
  from the beginning. she had religious spirits 
  and sadly this is not unusual. 
  The mother in Houston who drowned her five 
  
  children was also a professing 
  believer; she and her husband were 

  fundamentalist Christians.
   
  1CO 7:14    For the unbelieving husband 
  is sanctified by the wife, and 
  the    
  unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were 
  your    
  children unclean; but now are they holy.
   

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Children

[Marlin Halverson]

jt: I've never stated that children could 
not be converted John, what
I am saying is that child prophets and child 
prodigies are out of character
for the ministry of God's Spirit in the 
Church.  Children are not responsible 
for their own spiritual life under Judaism 
until they are at least 13yrs old 
and even Jesus who had a full measure of 
God's Spirit did nothing publicly
before the age of 30yrs.  When did 
things change?
 
judyt
 
No change at all.  
Judaism is religion and tradition, not the word of God.  The Word of God tells of Samuel long before Judaism 
developed.  There were other children inspired of God in the scripture, 
even from the womb. Joseph, Samson, Jeremiah, John the Baptist, 
Jesus.
 1SA 
1:24    ¶ And when she had weaned him, she took 
him up with her, with 
three    
bullocks, and one ephah of flour, and a bottle of wine, and 
brought    
him unto the house of the LORD in Shiloh: and the child 
[was]    
young.
1SA 3:9 Therefore Eli said unto 
Samuel, Go, lie down: and it shall be, 
if    he call 
thee, that thou shalt say, Speak, LORD; for thy 
servant    
heareth. So Samuel went and lay down in his place.1SA 3:10    
And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, 
Samuel,    
Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.1SA 
3:11    ¶ And the LORD said to Samuel, Behold, I will do a thing 
in Israel,    
at which both the ears of every one that heareth it shall tingle.
 

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Children

[Marlin Halverson]

 
All right.  A "child prodigy" must mean something to 
you that it does not mean in the field of education.  These  have 
obviously become "buzzwords" to describe something that you are seeing in 
the circles that I do not frequent.  
 
As for me, I have had the blessing of both teaching and 
learning from my children.  They know and love God.  They have 
personal relationships with the Father and His Son.  In some ways they can 
be smarter than I because they have gifts that I do not have.  For 
instance, I taught them music.  I cannot play piano, except slowly to plunk 
out parts and harmonies.  My children, on the other hand are gifted and 
they can move an audience in worship to God with their playing of the 
instrument.
 
Your blanket stipulation would prevent Godly 
children from serving other brethren until they are age 30.  

 
I go along with Paul's admonition to Timothy:
 
2TI 3:15    And that from a child thou hast 
known the holy scriptures, 
which    are 
able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is 
in    Christ 
Jesus.
1TI 4:12    Let no man despise thy youth; 
but be thou an example of 
the    
believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, 
in    faith, 
in purity.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 2:51 
AM
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Christian 
  Children
  
  From: "Marlin Halverson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  jt: I've never stated that children could 
  not be converted John, what
  
  I am saying is that child prophets and 
  child prodigies are out of character
  for the ministry of God's Spirit in the 
  Church.  Children are not responsible 
  for their own spiritual life under Judaism 
  until they are at least 13yrs old 
  and even Jesus who had a full measure of 
  God's Spirit did nothing publicly
  before the age of 30yrs.  When did 
  things change?
   
  marlin: 
  
  No change at 
  all.  Judaism is religion and tradition, not the word of 
  God.  
   
  jt: I meant Israel and they were God's Old 
  Covenant Church; they are the
  ones who preserved God's Word for our 
  present generation and yes I
  was aware of Samuel but he is the 
  exception; God was upset and not 
  speaking to Eli.  Even so, we have no record that Samuel was a 
  boy
  prodigy.  Did he become the prophet 
  before he was of age that you
  know of?
   
  The Word of God tells 
  of Samuel long before Judaism developed. 
  There were other 
  children inspired of God in the scripture, even from the 
  womb. Joseph, Samson, 
  Jeremiah, John the Baptist, Jesus.
   
  jt: OK Joseph had a dream and his brothers 
  tried to kill him over it. Still
  he waited a long time and was sorely tested before it came to 
  fruition.The
  parents of Samson, John the Baptist, and 
  Jesus were warned ahead of 
  time that these children would serve God but none of them to my 
  knowledge
  were sent out as a child prodigy.  Do 
  you know of one who was?  Even in
  the passages below Samuel as a child did 
  not know who was speaking to
  him.  Eli had to teach him.  
  judyt

Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Children

[Marlin Halverson]

All this worry because I recounted the answered prayers of 
an innocent child.  
 
I continually ask God to pour out His spirit upon my 
children and to bless them.  Why would I or my child receive a snake when 
we ask for a fish? 

  Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, 
  will he give him a stone?  Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a 
  serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your 
  children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things 
  to them that ask him? MAT 7:9-11    

  
  jt: "Children are free to serve in many 
  ways, just not in positions of
  authority and I don't see any indication 
  that the Holy Spirit uses them
  in the distribution of spiritual 
  gifts. ..."

[TruthTalk] Illinois Apologizes to Mormons

[Marlin Halverson]

Illinois Apologizes to 
MormonsA delegation of Illinois officials, led by Lt. Gov. Pat 
Quinn, traveled to Utah to express official regret for the 1844 murder of Joseph 
Smith Jr., the founder of the Mormon church, and the expulsion of Mormons from 
Illinois.  The Illinois House approved a resolution, a week prior, 
expressing the regret and Quinns delegation carried that message to The Church 
of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. An AP story quoted Quinn, "The people of 
Illinois are tolerant. They believe in religious freedom, and they are people of 
many faiths. If there have been wrongs, we should right them.'' Illinois is home 
to some 51,000 Mormons -[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [TruthTalk] 7th Day Adventists

[Marlin halverson]

From Marlin:
 
I think that the word "denomination" applies to the group.  
But this is not a compliment.  I prefer home churches and being led 
directly of God, rather than by a hierarchy of human leaders.  I am 
responsible for my own actions before God, not any leader other than God can 
give me salvation.  But there are some things that a cooperating organized 
group can do that smaller groups cannot for outreaches and teaching.  There 
are good works that larger groups can do.  
 
This site has some level-headedness about the use of their 
fallible leader in the past.  Many SDAs elevate her writings to the level 
of scripture, unable to see the differences.  They observe human ideas 
about spices, alcohol, music, vegetarianism, no vinegar, and coffee is bad while 
chocolate is okay.  Few of them ask why, and conservatives look for 
evidence to prove that Ellen was right with scholarly dissertations.  

 
http://www.capitalmemorial.org/egwonegw.htm
 
Ellen G. White’s Counsel on the Use ofHer Writings 
With Respect to the Bible

Note: Ellen G. White claimed her writings to be the lesser light to lead us 
to the Bible, the greater light. “Little heed is given to the Bible, and the 
Lord has given a lesser light to lead men and women to the greater light.” 
(Colporteur Evangelism, p. 37) When we fail in this objective and make 
the Spirit of Prophecy the final word, we do a great injustice to the church and 
Ellen G. White and rightfully deserve to be called a cult! [followed by 
several quotes.]

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 1:21 PM
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] 7th Day 
  Adventists
  
  
  The 
  website looks very interesting,Marlin.  
  It’s good to know the background on SDAs.  It’s 
  always good to hear from you. Izzy
   
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlin halversonSent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 10:08 
  AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 7th Day 
  Adventists
   
  

My computer was attacked by that 
sasser virus and I missed a bunch of mail, gone forever because of hotmail 
account limitations.  
  
  Regarding the SDAs.  I have 
  been fellowshipping among them for a couple of years now as a guest.  
  There are wonderful people there.  The group as a whole is healthy enough 
  to assimilate some diversity without 
  crumbling.
  
   
  
  I have decided to put some space 
  between them and myself and family for a time.  A conflict arose over 
  appropriate forms of music and I do not want to be the one telling them what 
  is right more than I have already done.  There are conservative views 
  that date back to the thoughts of Ellen White that are not even part of some 
  of the official guidelines, guidelines currently under revision.  The 
  following web site is helpful for an insight into past developments that have 
  led up to current stands.  Conflicts can arise from unstated beliefs that 
  are passed down through generations of 
  members.
  
   
  
  http://www.isitso.org/guide/sda.html 
  
   
  
  Marlin  
  
  

- Original Message - 


From: ShieldsFamily 


To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


Sent: Monday, 
May 03, 2004 9:00 AM

Subject: RE: 
[TruthTalk] 7th Day Adventists

 
Good attitude, 
John.  I’ve not looked into Adventists because I’ve had friends in the 
past warn me against it, and I don’t think my husband would be interested, 
as he loves our non-D church. But I’ve read some very favorable things about 
how healthy they are due to their beliefs in keeping OT dietary laws. Are 
you Adventist? Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 9:02 
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 7th Day 
Adventists
 
Just to clarify:The 
Adventist church in most communities I am aware of, is accepted by most of 
the other churches as part of the larger Christian community.   
One of the local radio stations is a Christian music station run by the 
Adventist church.   It features announcements from all Christian 
churches, and has advertisement from across the board.   In time, 
it's doctrine of exclusion will be completely gone.   The folks I 
know are great people, claiming the name of Jesus.    I am 
not aware that correct doctrinal thinking is a requirement for 
salvation.   Community among believers is a wonderful thing and 
should be encouraged.   Many in TT share this sense of 
community.    Peace outJohn 
Smithson

RE: [TruthTalk] 7th Day Adventists

[Marlin halverson]

 

From Marlin:
 
I think that the word "denomination" applies to the group.  
But this is not a compliment.  I prefer home churches and being led 
directly of God, rather than by a hierarchy of human leaders.  I am 
responsible for my own actions before God, not any leader other than God can 
give me salvation.  But there are some things that a cooperating organized 
group can do that smaller groups cannot for outreaches and teaching.  There 
are good works that larger groups can do.  
 
This site has some level-headedness about the use of their 
fallible leader in the past.  Many SDAs elevate her writings to the level 
of scripture, unable to see the differences.  They observe human ideas 
about spices, alcohol, music, vegetarianism, no vinegar, and coffee is bad while 
chocolate is okay.  Few of them ask why, and conservatives look for 
evidence to prove that Ellen was right with scholarly dissertations.  

 
http://www.capitalmemorial.org/egwonegw.htm
 
Ellen G. White’s Counsel on the Use ofHer Writings 
With Respect to the Bible

Note: Ellen G. White claimed her writings to be the lesser light to lead us 
to the Bible, the greater light. “Little heed is given to the Bible, and the 
Lord has given a lesser light to lead men and women to the greater light.” 
(Colporteur Evangelism, p. 37) When we fail in this objective and make 
the Spirit of Prophecy the final word, we do a great injustice to the church and 
Ellen G. White and rightfully deserve to be called a cult! [followed by 
several quotes.]

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 1:21 PM
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] 7th Day 
  Adventists
  
  
  The 
  website looks very interesting,Marlin.  
  It’s good to know the background on SDAs.  It’s 
  always good to hear from you. Izzy
   
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlin halversonSent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 10:08 
  AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 7th Day 
  Adventists
   
  

My computer was attacked by that 
sasser virus and I missed a bunch of mail, gone forever because of hotmail 
account limitations.  
  
  Regarding the SDAs.  I have 
  been fellowshipping among them for a couple of years now as a guest.  
  There are wonderful people there.  The group as a whole is healthy enough 
  to assimilate some diversity without 
  crumbling.
  
   
  
  I have decided to put some space 
  between them and myself and family for a time.  A conflict arose over 
  appropriate forms of music and I do not want to be the one telling them what 
  is right more than I have already done.  There are conservative views 
  that date back to the thoughts of Ellen White that are not even part of some 
  of the official guidelines, guidelines currently under revision.  The 
  following web site is helpful for an insight into past developments that have 
  led up to current stands.  Conflicts can arise from unstated beliefs that 
  are passed down through generations of 
  members.
  
   
  
  http://www.isitso.org/guide/sda.html 
  
   
  
  Marlin  
  
  

- Original Message - 


From: ShieldsFamily 


To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


Sent: Monday, 
May 03, 2004 9:00 AM

Subject: RE: 
[TruthTalk] 7th Day Adventists

 
Good attitude, 
John.  I’ve not looked into Adventists because I’ve had friends in the 
past warn me against it, and I don’t think my husband would be interested, 
as he loves our non-D church. But I’ve read some very favorable things about 
how healthy they are due to their beliefs in keeping OT dietary laws. Are 
you Adventist? Izzy
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 9:02 
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 7th Day 
Adventists
 
Just to clarify:The 
Adventist church in most communities I am aware of, is accepted by most of 
the other churches as part of the larger Christian community.   
One of the local radio stations is a Christian music station run by the 
Adventist church.   It features announcements from all Christian 
churches, and has advertisement from across the board.   In time, 
it's doctrine of exclusion will be completely gone.   The folks I 
know are great people, claiming the name of Jesus.    I am 
not aware that correct doctrinal thinking is a requirement for 
salvation.   Community among believers is a wonderful thing and 
should be encouraged.   Many in TT share this sense of 
community.    Peace outJohn 
Smithson

Re: [TruthTalk] 7th Day Adventists

[Marlin halverson]

  My computer was attacked by that sasser virus and 
  I missed a bunch of mail, gone forever because of hotmail account 
  limitations.  
Regarding the SDAs.  I have been 
fellowshipping among them for a couple of years now as a guest.  There are 
wonderful people there.  The group as a whole is healthy enough to 
assimilate some diversity without crumbling.
 
I have decided to put some space between them and 
myself and family for a time.  A conflict arose over appropriate forms of 
music and I do not want to be the one telling them what is right more than I 
have already done.  There are conservative views that date back to the 
thoughts of Ellen White that are not even part of some of the official 
guidelines, guidelines currently under revision.  The following web site is 
helpful for an insight into past developments that have led up to current 
stands.  Conflicts can arise from unstated beliefs that are passed down 
through generations of members.
 
http://www.isitso.org/guide/sda.html 
 
Marlin  

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 9:00 AM
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] 7th Day 
  Adventists
  
  
  Good attitude, John. 
   I’ve not looked into Adventists because I’ve had friends in the past 
  warn me against it, and I don’t think my husband would be interested, as he 
  loves our non-D church. But I’ve read some very favorable things about how 
  healthy they are due to their beliefs in keeping OT dietary laws. Are you 
  Adventist? Izzy
   
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 9:02 
  PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 7th Day 
  Adventists
   
  Just to clarify:The 
  Adventist church in most communities I am aware of, is accepted by most of the 
  other churches as part of the larger Christian community.   One of 
  the local radio stations is a Christian music station run by the Adventist 
  church.   It features announcements from all Christian churches, and 
  has advertisement from across the board.   In time, it's doctrine of 
  exclusion will be completely gone.   The folks I know are great 
  people, claiming the name of Jesus.    I am not aware that 
  correct doctrinal thinking is a requirement for salvation.   
  Community among believers is a wonderful thing and should be 
  encouraged.   Many in TT share this sense of 
  community.    Peace outJohn 
  Smithson

[TruthTalk] Land of the Free

[Marlin halverson]

"Land of the FreeJust some interesting 
factoids here: In 1923 there were only 61 prisons in the entire United States. 
Today, there are literally thousands. In many states upto as much as 30--78 
percent of the counties have at least one prison.  I read an article by 
Paul Craig Roberts on America and its prisons. I quote a small portion here: 
"The US has a unique distinction: It is the world’s greatest prison state.  
The US, "the land of the free," has the biggest prison population in the world 
and the highest rate of prisoners per capita of all countries – including 
countries that President Bush believes need liberating by US armed forces. Even 
China, with one party rule and a population that is 4.5 times larger than the US 
population, has 30% fewer total prisoners than the US. China’s per capita rate 
is a small fraction of the US rate.  The US prison population per capita is 
three times higher than "axis of evil" country Iran, five times higher than 
Tanzania, and seven times higher than a civilized European country like 
Germany.  One out of every 142 Americans is in prison – and this does not 
include military prisons or INS jails. ... Between 1980 and 2000, a period 
during which the US population grew by 21%, the number of state and federal 
inmates soared by 312%." http://www.truthontheweb.org 
/NwsClpz/051504.html

[TruthTalk] Unchanged Week With Sabbath

[Marlin halverson]

Unchanged Week 
With Sabbath 
   Old resource-Author unknown Shewing the UNCHANGED ORDER 
of the Days and the true Position of the SABBATH, as proved by the combined 
testimony of Ancient and Modern Languages.  No. LANGUAGE (Where Spoken, 
Read, or Otherwise Used) 1,  2,  3, 4,  5,  6, 
 Name of the SEVENTH DAY    1 Shemitic Hebrew Bible 
world-wide  Day One, Day Second, Day Third, Day Fourth, Day Fifth, Day the 
Sixth, Yom hash-shab-bath Day - the Sabbath   2 Hebrew 
(Ancient and Modern)  One into the Sabbath, Second into the Sabbath, Third 
into the Sabbath, Fourth into the Sabbath, Fifth into the Sabbath, Eve of Holy 
Sabbath, Shab-bath - Sabbath   3 Targum of Onkelos (Hebrew 
Literature)  Day One, Day Second, Day Third, Day Fourth, Day Fifth, Day the 
Sixth, Yom hash-shab-bath Day - the Sabbath   4 Targum 
Dialect of the Jews in Kurdistan  Day One of the Seven, Day 2nd of the 
Seven, Day 3rd of the Seven, Day 4th of the Seven, Day 5th of the Seven, Day of 
Eve (of Sabbath), yoy-met sha-bat kodesh - Holy Sabbath Day   
5 Ancient Syriac *Each day proceeds on, and belongs to the Sabbath 
 One into Sabbath, Two into Sabbath, Three into Sabbath, Four into Sabbath, 
Five into Sabbath, Eve (of Sabbath), Shab-ba-tho - Sabbath   
6 Chaldee Syriac Kurdistan and Urdmia, Persia  One into Sabbath, 
Two into Sabbath, Three into Sabbath, Four into Sabbath, Five into Sabbath, Eve 
(of Sabbath), Shap-ta - Sabbath   7 Samaritan (Old Hebrew 
Letters) Nablus, Palestine  Day One Day, Second Day, Third Day, Fourth Day, 
Fifth Day, Sixth, Shab-bath -Sabbath 8 Babylonian Euphrates & 
Tigris Valleys Mesopotamia (Written lang. 3800 B.C.)  First, Second, Third, 
Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Sa-ba-tu - Sabbath 9 Assyrian Euphrates and 
Tigris Valleys, Mesopotamia  First, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, 
sa-ba-tu - Sabbath   10 Arabic (Very old names)  Business 
Day, Light, Moon, War, Chief Turning Day or Midweek, Familiar or Society Day, 
Eve (of Sabbath), Shi-yar Chief or Rejoicing Day 11 Arabic 
(Ancient and Modern) Westn. Asia,  E,W & N. Africa  The One, The 
Two, The Three, The Four ,The Fifth, Assembly (day, Muham), as-sabt 
-The Sabbath   12 Maltese, Malta  One (day), Two (and 
day), The 3 (3rd d.), The 4 (4th d.), Fifth (day), Assembly, Is-sibt -The 
Sabbath   13 Ge-ez or Ethiopic Abyssinia (Ge-ez signifies 
"original")  One (day), Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, Eve (of Sabbath), 
san-bat -Sabbath   14 Tigre Abyssinia (Closely 
related to Ge-ez)  One (First day), Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, Eve (of 
Sabbath), san-bat -Sabbath   15 Amharic, Abyssinia 
(Nearly related to Ge-ez)  One, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, Eve (of 
Sabbath), san-bat -Sabbath   16 Falasha (Language of the 
 Jews of Abyssinia)  One, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, 
yini sanbat The Sabbath   17 Coptic / Egypt (A dead 
lang. for 200 years)  The First Day, The 2nd Day, The 3rd Day, The 4th Day, 
The 5th Day, The 6th Day, pi sabbaton -The Sabbath   18 Orma 
or Galla South of Abyssinia (This language has two sets of names, the first 
being the oldest)  Lady, Virgin Mary Day. Great or Festival Sabbath Second 
day. First Trade Day 3rd Day to the Sabbath. Second Trade Day 4th day to the 
Sabbath. Fourth (day), Fifth (day), Assembly (day), Last day of the half-week 
inclusive of 4th day. Little or Humble or Solemn Sabbath  (A day of 
no ceremonial display and no work)   19 Tamashek or Towarek. (From 
ancient Lybian or Numidian). Atlas Mountains, Africa.  First day, Second 
day, Third day, Fourth day, Fifth day, Assembly Day, a-hal es-sabt. -The 
Sabbath Day   20 Kabyle or Berber. (Ancient Numidian) North 
Africa  Day the One (First) Day, the Two (2nd) Day, the Three (3rd) Day, 
the Four (4th) Day, the Fifth, The Assembly Day, ghas or wars assebt -The 
Sabbath Day   21 Hausa Central Africa)  The One (1st), The 
Two (2nd), The Three (3rd), The Four (4th), The Fifth, The Assembly, assebatu 
-The Sabbath   22 Urdu or Hindustani (Muhammadan and Hindu, 
India) (Two names for the days)  One to Sabbath. Sunday, 2nd to Sabbath. 
Moon-day, 3rd to Sabbath, Mars 4th to Sabbath, Mercury 5th to Sabbath, (Eve of 
Juma) Assembly (day), sanichar - Saturn shamba - Sabbath   
23 Pashto or Afghan Afghanistan  One to the Sabbath ,Two to 
Sabbath, Three to Sabbath, Four to Sabbath, Five to Sabbath, Assembly (day), 
khali Unemployed-day,  Shamba - Sabbath  

Re: [TruthTalk] Unchanged Week With Sabbath

[Marlin halverson]

The author of the study is unknown.  But the 
author of the creation created a cycle of seven days that is common throughout 
the earth.  It is a blessing that I appreciate.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Terry Clifton 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 10:28 AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Unchanged Week 
  With Sabbath
  Looks like you did a really detailed study Marlin.  What's 
  your point?  :-)TerryMarlin halverson 
  wrote:
  



Unchanged 
Week With Sabbath 
   Old resource-Author 
unknown Showing the 
UNCHANGED ORDER of the Days and the true Position of the SABBATH, as proved 
by the combined testimony of Ancient and Modern Languages.  No. 
LANGUAGE (Where Spoken, Read, or Otherwise Used) 1,  2, 
 3, 4,  5,  6,  Name of the SEVENTH DAY 
   1 Shemitic Hebrew Bible world-wide  Day One, Day 
Second, Day Third, Day Fourth, Day Fifth, Day the Sixth, Yom 
hash-shab-bath Day - the Sabbath   2 Hebrew (Ancient and 
Modern)  One into the Sabbath, Second into the Sabbath, Third into the 
Sabbath, Fourth into the Sabbath, Fifth into the Sabbath, Eve of Holy 
Sabbath, Shab-bath - Sabbath   3 Targum of Onkelos 
(Hebrew Literature)  Day One, Day Second, Day Third, Day Fourth, Day 
Fifth, Day the Sixth, Yom hash-shab-bath Day - the Sabbath   
4 Targum Dialect of the Jews in Kurdistan  Day One of the 
Seven, Day 2nd of the Seven, Day 3rd of the Seven, Day 4th of the Seven, Day 
5th of the Seven, Day of Eve (of Sabbath), yoy-met sha-bat kodesh - 
Holy Sabbath Day   5 Ancient Syriac *Each day proceeds on, 
and belongs to the Sabbath  One into Sabbath, Two into Sabbath, Three 
into Sabbath, Four into Sabbath, Five into Sabbath, Eve (of Sabbath), 
Shab-ba-tho - Sabbath   6 Chaldee Syriac Kurdistan and 
Urdmia, Persia  One into Sabbath, Two into Sabbath, Three into Sabbath, 
Four into Sabbath, Five into Sabbath, Eve (of Sabbath), Shap-ta - Sabbath 
  7 Samaritan (Old Hebrew Letters) Nablus, Palestine 
 Day One Day, Second Day, Third Day, Fourth Day, Fifth Day, Sixth, 
Shab-bath -Sabbath 8 Babylonian Euphrates & Tigris 
Valleys Mesopotamia (Written lang. 3800 B.C.)  First, Second, Third, 
Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Sa-ba-tu - Sabbath 9 Assyrian Euphrates 
and Tigris Valleys, Mesopotamia  First, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, 
Sixth, sa-ba-tu - Sabbath   10 Arabic (Very old names) 
 Business Day, Light, Moon, War, Chief Turning Day or Midweek, Familiar 
or Society Day, Eve (of Sabbath), Shi-yar Chief or Rejoicing Day 
11 Arabic (Ancient and Modern) Westn. Asia,  E,W & N. 
Africa  The One, The Two, The Three, The Four ,The Fifth, Assembly 
(day, Muham), as-sabt -The Sabbath   12 Maltese, 
Malta  One (day), Two (and day), The 3 (3rd d.), The 4 (4th d.), Fifth 
(day), Assembly, Is-sibt -The Sabbath   13 Ge-ez or 
Ethiopic Abyssinia (Ge-ez signifies "original")  One (day), Second, 
Third, Fourth, Fifth, Eve (of Sabbath), san-bat -Sabbath 
  14 Tigre Abyssinia (Closely related to Ge-ez)  One 
(First day), Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, Eve (of Sabbath), san-bat 
-Sabbath   15 Amharic, Abyssinia (Nearly related to 
Ge-ez)  One, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, Eve (of Sabbath), san-bat 
-Sabbath   16 Falasha (Language of the  Jews of 
Abyssinia)  One, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, yini 
sanbat The Sabbath   17 Coptic / Egypt (A dead lang. for 
200 years)  The First Day, The 2nd Day, The 3rd Day, The 4th Day, The 
5th Day, The 6th Day, pi sabbaton -The Sabbath   18 Orma 
or Galla South of Abyssinia (This language has two sets of names, the first 
being the oldest)  Lady, Virgin Mary Day. Great or Festival Sabbath 
Second day. First Trade Day 3rd Day to the Sabbath. Second Trade Day 4th day 
to the Sabbath. Fourth (day), Fifth (day), Assembly (day), Last day of the 
half-week inclusive of 4th day. Little or Humble or Solemn Sabbath 
 (A day of no ceremonial display and no work)   19 
Tamashek or Towarek. (From ancient Lybian or Numidian). Atlas Mountains, 
Africa.  First day, Second day, Third day, Fourth day, Fifth day, 
Assembly Day, a-hal es-sabt. -The Sabbath Day   20 
Kabyle or Berber. (Ancient Numidian) North Africa  Day the One (First) 
Day, the Two (2nd) Day, the Three (3rd) Day, the Four (4th) Day, the Fifth, 
The Assembly Day, ghas or wars assebt -The Sabbath Day   
21 Hausa Central Africa)  The One (1st), The Two (2nd), The 
Three (3rd), The Four (4th), The Fifth, The Assembly, assebatu -The 
Sabbath   22 Urdu or Hindustani (Muhammadan and Hindu, 
India) (Two names for the days)  One to Sabbath. Sunday, 2nd to 
Sabbath. Moon-day, 3rd to Sabbath, Mars 4th to Sabbath, Mercury 5th to 
Sabbath, (Eve of Juma) Assembly (day), sanichar - Saturn shamba - Sabba

Re: [TruthTalk] Oneness vs. Plurality -- Echad

[Marlin halverson]

Dear Slade,
 
I have posted these links in the past because this is the 
most thorough study on the the nature of God I have found.  
Enjoy!
 
http://www.cbcg.org/defining_oneness_intro.htm
Defining The Oneness of God, The Scriptural Truth about the Oneness of God, by Carl D. Franklin, 
March 1994.  
Sub headings from Part One are, Modalistic 
Oneness, Trinitarian Oneness, Tritheistic Oneness, 
Ditheistic Oneness (Binitarian or 
Bi-personal), The Scriptural Meaning of “One,” “One” Used as 
a Cardinal 
Number, “One” Used as an Ordinal 
Number.   
Part Two covers 
“One” Used 
as a Physical Union of Individuals, 
“One” Used as a Spiritual Union of 
Individuals, “One” Used of Spiritual Unity 
with Jesus Christ, 
and “One” Used of the Spiritual 
Unity of Christ with the 
Father.
Part Three 
talks about “One” Used 
to Show the Superiority of God, A Primary New Testament 
Example, and “One” Used to Show the Holiness of 
God.
Part Four 
discusses “One” Used of 
the Testimony of God, and “As One of Us” Referring to 
Godlike Characteristics.
Marlin 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Slade 
  Henson 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 6:55 PM
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Oneness vs. 
  Plurality -- Echad
  
  
  I would like to submit 
  this small item for your consideration. Since the topic, recently, has been on 
  the multiplicity of God versus His Oneness, I would like to supply a 
  small contribution. This [rough draft] is a part of the Dissertation I am 
  writing, so any constructive input is 
  valuable to me. I have tried to remove most of the transliterations from the 
  text to make it easier to read. There is a small series of footnotes at the 
  bottom for those I may have missed.-- 
  slade
  Defining Echad As 
  Plurality
  Deuteronomy[1] 
  6:4, the 
  watchword of the faith, tells us “YHVH, Eloheinu[2] [our 
  Elohim[3]], YHVH is 
  one.” The 
  Hebrew word used for one is 
  echad. People 
  love to quote teachers who tell us echad means a unity. However, it does not 
  always mean a unity; nor, it does not always mean a singularity either. We 
  must carefully address the context of the passage or sentence in order to 
  determine if echad is declaring a unity or a singularity. Genesis[4] 
  1:5, 
  2:24, and 
  11:6 provide three examples where echad is a 
  unity, as opposed to a singularity. For instance, in Genesis 1:5, one morning and one 
  evening constitutes one day. In Genesis 2:24, a woman and one man 
  create one flesh; meanwhile in Genesis 11:6, the whole of humanity is 
  considered one people. As shown, in all three examples given, the idea of 
  completion or the coming-together can be easily seen.
   
  Elohim called the light day, and the darkness 
  He called night. And there was evening and was morning, one [echad] day. (Genesis 1:5)
   
  Therefore shall a man 
  leave his father and his mother, and cling to his wife; and they shall become 
  one [echad] flesh. (Genesis 2:24)
   
  In Malakhi 
  2:13-16, we see a wretched priesthood who is grievously sinning. The people 
  were not learning the ways of YHVH from the very ones who were to be examples. 
  The phrase she is thy companion used in verse 14 in the KJV really 
  should be translated she is thy joining, indicating that the covenant 
  of marriage does indeed make a man and a woman echad. Refer also to Ephesians 
  5:28-29 & 33, 1 Corinthians 12:12-14, 1 Corinthians 6:15-17, and 2 Corinthians 3:17.
   
  Further 
  in the Ephesians text, Paul of Tarsus compares the joining of a man 
  and his wife and the love and fear expected in that relationship with the 
  Messiah and the Ekklesia (Ephesians 5:30-33). See 
  also John 10:22-33, 17:20-23, 
   
  And YHVH said, “See, the people are 
  (singular) one [echad], and their tongue is one 
  to all of them. And this is what they are beginning to do, and now nothing 
  will be impossible for them all which they purpose to do. (Genesis 11:6)
   
  The concept of more 
  than one being defined as one is a readily accepted principle. In 
  the United States of America, people were once taught the Pledge of 
  Allegiance, which contains the phrase “…one nation, under God, 
  indivisible…” This concept is not too 
  hard to grasp.
   
  To continue with this 
  thought, Exodus[5] 
  26:1-16 gives us an overview of the building of 
  the Tabernacle[6]. The 
  inner or lower section is constructed of 10 linen curtains. The curtains are 
  held together with 50 gold clasps. Once together, the 10 curtains are called 
  echad Tabernacle. (Exodus 13:13)
   
  The outer or upper section 
  (Exodus 26:7-13) is called the tent. It 
  is constructed out of 11 curtains of goat hair. These are held together by 50 
  bronze clasps and, as a unit, they are also called echad tent.[7] 
  Additionally, the two large curtains together are called echad 
  Mishkan. 
  (Exodus 36:14-18)
   
  In the Greek New Testament, we have a Hebraic perspective 
  “one.” In Revel

Re: [TruthTalk] Osama at the Pearly Gates

[Marlin Halverson]

I find it interesting that our country trained this man to do what he 
does. --Marlin


  
  
From 
  the October 2001 Idaho Observer: 
Osama bin CIA? 
by Hari Heath 
"As our nation rallies to condemn our latest made for TV enemy, the 
“terrorist” Osama bin Laden, do we really know who this guy is? In 1986, he 
helped build the Khost tunnel complex, that the CIA was funding as a major arms 
storage depot, training facility and medical center for the Mujaheddin, deep 
under the mountains close to the Pakistan border. For the first time in Khost he 
set up his own training camp for Arab Afghans, who now increasingly saw this 
lanky, wealthy and charismatic Saudi as their leader. "
http://proliberty.com/observer/20011005.htm

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: 9/11 overview

[Marlin Halverson]

Title: 9/11 overview
ï


Thank you for the link.  
 
I never knew about the destruction of WTC-7.  I 
played the NBC and CBS videos posted on http://www.wtc7.net/.  No plane hit 
WTC-7.  To "pull" off a demolition of that magnitude, there had to be 
a great amount of planning in advance. 
 
I also did not know about the gag order placed upon Sibel 
Edmonds.  
 
--Marlin

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Lance 
  Muir 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 6:22 
  PM
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Fw: 9/11 
  overview
  
   
  - Original Message - 
  From: Hughes Jonathan 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: September 10, 2004 16:16
  Subject: 9/11 overview
  
  Interesting article covering an overview of 9/11 
  conspiracy, now referred to as the 9/11 Truth Movement. 
  http://www.guerrillanews.com/intelligence/doc5233.html 
  
  www.guerrillanews.com is actually a 
  pretty good site overall and one I visit 4 or 5 times a week. 
  Others that are worth while looking/wasting your 
  time at: 
  www.buzzflash.com www.propagandamatrix.com 
  www.whatreallyhappened.com 
  Jonathan Hughes Supervisor of Application Support Kingsway Financial 905-629-7888 x. 2471 
  
  
  
  This e-mail and any attachments contain confidential and privileged 
  information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender 
  immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any 
  dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended 
  recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Thank you for your cooperation 
  in connection with the above.Ce courriel ainsi que tous les documents 
  sây rattachant contiennent de lâinformation confidentielle et privilÃgiÃe. Si 
  vous nâÃtes pas le destinataire visÃ, s.v.p. en informer immÃdiatement son 
  expÃditeur par retour de courriel, effacer le message et dÃtruire toute copie 
  (Ãlectronique ou autre). Toute diffusion ou utilisation de cette information 
  par une personne autre que le destinataire visà est interdite et peut Ãtre 
  illÃgale. Merci de votre coopÃration relativement au message susmentionnÃ. 
  

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: 9/11 overview

[Marlin Halverson]

Title: 9/11 overview



What about those cell phone calls from the planes that 
crashed on 9/11?
 

"American Airlines, Qualcom 'Finally Develop' brand new 
Technology which should allow passengers to use cell phone as early as 
2006!"
http://letsroll911.org/ipw-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?p=23188#23188
 
 

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: 9/11 overview

[Marlin Halverson]

Title: 9/11 overview




I didn't know about the destruction of WTC-6, the 
eight-story U.S. Customs building, as shown on CNN either. --Marlin
"A massive explosion, witnessed by millions of television viewers on CNN, 
evidently devastated World Trade Center 6, the eight-story U.S. Customs 
building, although no national newspaper, other than American Free Press, has 
written a word about it. 
Before the smoke had cleared from around the stricken South Tower, a 
mysterious explosion shot 550 feet into the air above the U.S. Customs House at 
WTC 6. 
FEMA has stated that there was "no data collection" from WTC #6. Interesting 
that without collecting any data they still managed to put together the official 
story that this building was destroyed by rubble from the collapse of the North 
Tower. But if so then one would expect to see the remains of the building 
covered by rubble. Instead we see a huge crater. Here is a closer look at WTC #6 
after it was demolished."
http://letsroll911.org/articles/controlleddemolition.html

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: 9/11 overview

[Marlin Halverson]

Title: 9/11 overview




Not all that seems true is true.  --Marlin
Evidence of Controlled Demolitionby: Geronimo Jones
9-11, THE EXPLOSIVE TRUTH REVEALED 
It was a picture perfect day in September. I was watering some plants on my 
terrace and enjoying the unseasonably warm weather when I heard the sound of a 
plane flying low. Within seconds I watched in horror as the unthinkable 
unfolded, right in my backyard! 
The shock was overwhelming. My first thoughts was that it was a terrorist 
attack. This was confirmed by the news reports of Al Qaeda. But one thing the 
reporters left out was something I witnessed first hand. A very important 
omission at that! 
Seconds before the South Tower crumbled to its doom, I 
heard/felt a series of explosions. Same with the North Tower. There was 
no denying it, I could FEEL the vibrations of them like a small earthquake. 
Yet when I turned on the news none of the other eyewitnesses 
commented on this. 
Indeed, in the days that followed, like many Americans, I remained glued to 
the news networks to keep myself informed of any developments and confirm what I 
had witnessed. But despite the numerous eyewitness accounts, there was still no 
mention of the explosions. 
I decided to examine the evidence for myself… 
http://letsroll911.org/articles/controlleddemolition.html
The foundations were 70 feet deep. At that level, 47 huge box columns, 
connected to the bedrock, supported the entire gravity load of the structures. 
The steel walls of these lower box columns were 4 inches thick. 
This is where clean-up crew discovered hot spots of "literally 
molten steel" more than a month after the collapse. Such persistent and 
intense residual heat, 70 feet below the surface, required the help of a 
professional. 
A call was placed to Mark Loizeaux, president of Controlled Demolition, Inc. 
(CDI) who arrived on the WTC site two days later and wrote the clean-up plan for 
the entire operation 
American Free Press asked Loizeaux about the report of molten steel on the 
site. "Yes," he said, "hot spots of molten steel in the basements." These 
incredibly hot areas were found "at the bottoms of the elevator shafts of the 
main towers, down seven [basement] levels," Loizeaux said. The molten steel was 
found "three, four, and five weeks later, when the rubble was being removed," 
Loizeaux said. He said molten steel was also found at 7 WTC, which collapsed 
mysteriously in the late afternoon. 
What could have caused those box columns of 4-inch thick steel to melt like 
this? 

Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: 9/11 overview

[Marlin Halverson]

Title: 9/11 overview



What am I missing 
here??? Izzy
 
There were at least two other buildings that 
were demolished and the media did not draw attention to it.  I never knew 
about these until I searched these sites and viewed the photographs again.  
The airplanes could not have done this, let alone the damage attributed to them 
in the twin towers.  Check out the videos and studies posted at the 
sites.  Take another look at the evidence.  There 
is a great deal missing from 'official' reports.   You just might be 
disillusioned.  
 
Marlin
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 7:23 
  PM
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Fw: 9/11 
  overview
  
  
  Marlin, Wouldn’t you 
  think that two collapsing buildings the size of the WTC would set off a lot of 
  explosions (gas, etc.) in the process? Wouldn’t it feel like an earthquake? 
  What am I missing here??? Izzy
   
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlin HalversonSent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 10:44 
  PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Fw: 9/11 
  overview
   
  
  Not all that seems true is 
  true.  --Marlin
  Evidence of Controlled 
  Demolitionby: Geronimo Jones
  9-11, THE EXPLOSIVE TRUTH REVEALED 
  
  It was a 
  picture perfect day in September. I was watering some plants on my terrace and 
  enjoying the unseasonably warm weather when I heard the sound of a plane 
  flying low. Within seconds I watched in horror as the unthinkable unfolded, 
  right in my backyard! 
  The shock 
  was overwhelming. My first thoughts was that it was a terrorist attack. This 
  was confirmed by the news reports of Al Qaeda. But one thing the reporters 
  left out was something I witnessed first hand. A very important omission at 
  that! 
  Seconds 
  before the South 
  Tower crumbled to its 
  doom, I heard/felt 
  a series of explosions. Same with the North Tower. There was no denying it, I could 
  FEEL the vibrations of them like a small earthquake. Yet when I turned on the news none of the other 
  eyewitnesses commented on this. 
  Indeed, 
  in the days that followed, like many Americans, I remained glued to the news 
  networks to keep myself informed of any developments and confirm what I had 
  witnessed. But despite the numerous eyewitness accounts, there was still no 
  mention of the explosions. 
  I decided 
  to examine the evidence for myself… 
  http://letsroll911.org/articles/controlleddemolition.html
  The 
  foundations were 70 feet deep. At that level, 47 huge box columns, connected 
  to the bedrock, supported the entire gravity load of the structures. The steel 
  walls of these lower box columns were 4 inches thick. 
  
  This is 
  where clean-up crew discovered hot spots of "literally molten steel" more than a 
  month after the collapse. Such persistent and intense residual 
  heat, 70 feet below the surface, required the help of a professional. 
  
  A call 
  was placed to Mark Loizeaux, president of Controlled Demolition, Inc. (CDI) 
  who arrived on the WTC site two days later and wrote the clean-up plan for the 
  entire operation 
  American 
  Free Press asked Loizeaux about the report of molten steel on the site. "Yes," 
  he said, "hot spots of molten steel in the basements." These incredibly hot 
  areas were found "at the bottoms of the elevator shafts of the main towers, 
  down seven [basement] levels," Loizeaux said. The molten steel was found 
  "three, four, and five weeks later, when the rubble was being removed," 
  Loizeaux said. He said molten steel was also found at 7 WTC, which collapsed 
  mysteriously in the late afternoon. 
  What 
  could have caused those box columns of 4-inch thick steel to melt like this? 
  

[TruthTalk] Michael Rood

[Marlin Halverson]

I just found out about an interesting teacher by 
the name of Michael Rood from some friends of mine.  I am not in 
agreement with a number of his assertions, but he is way ahead of most.  
The following site features some of his video clips:
 
http://www.aroodawakening.tv/rood/programs.html
 
Enjoy,
 
Marlin

Re: [TruthTalk] Michael Rood

[Marlin Halverson]

In his "Truth and Tradition Episode 2," he claims 
that Jesus was born the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles, Tishri 15.  
But he follows this with astronomic proof that Jesus was born on Tishri 1, which 
I believe is the more probable Fall date.  This is not much to quibble 
about.  Rood's teaching is far closer to the Scriptural account than 
most of Western Christianity.  

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 5:44 
  AM
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Michael 
  Rood
  
  
  Awesome.  
  Thanks, Marlin! Izzy
   
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlin HalversonSent: Monday, February 07, 2005 12:04 
  AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: [TruthTalk] Michael 
  Rood
   
  
  I just found out about an 
  interesting teacher by the name of Michael Rood from some friends of 
  mine.  I am not in agreement with a number of his assertions, but he is 
  way ahead of most.  The following site features some of his video 
  clips:
  
   
  
  http://www.aroodawakening.tv/rood/programs.html
  
   
  
  Enjoy,
  
   
  
  Marlin

Re: [TruthTalk] The Future of TruthTalk

[Marlin halverson]

David M, how does this list work?  Do you have a very 
large computer that automatically does it?  I do not recall using yahoo to 
join up. 
 
--Marlin

[TruthTalk] Trailer of a new movie: Freedom to Fascism

[Marlin halverson]

Some of the content is about taxes, but there are 
prophetic ramifications to buying and selling and the mark of the beast.  
There are three media players to choose from for the preview.
 
http://www.freedomtofascism.com/w_high.html

Re: [TruthTalk] 613 Commands

[Marlin Halverson]

Dear friends,
 
I was set straight about "the 613 commandments" by a 
friend and brother.  He sent me this link and admonition:
 

  
  http://www.aish.com/literacy/mitzvahs/The_613_Commandments.asp 
   
  The trappings of Judaism are a poor substitute for 
  having the indwelling of God's spirit and being cleansed by the sacrifice of 
  Jesus Christ.
I thought that the 613 commandments had been 
derived from the scriptures alone.  This is because a friend of mine had 
faithfully identified 659 identifiable commands from the scripture before, and 
later revised his study to identify many more.  
 
I had assumed that Jewish practitioners 
had gone through a similar faithful study to arrive at their number.  
When I saw the list posted at the above site, I found that some were and many 
were not derived out of the scripture.  The 613 laws of Judaism contain 
some laws summarized from the scriptures, but many of their laws are merely 
Jewish traditions that use some scriptural reference that may be somewhat 
related to the idea, but are not laws recorded in the scripture.  According 
to one source, Judaism has 2800 other rules.  
I wanted to let you know that I was wrong when I 
thought the so called "613 commandments" were from the scripture.  Some 
are, but others are not.  
 
Love,
 
Marlin

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Slade 
  Henson 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 5:24 
  AM
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] 613 
  Commands
  
  Hi 
  Judy:
  613 
  commands in the Torah, yes. Directly from God, not man. Why? Because God says 
  Be Holy, because I AM holy. This is HOW a holy, set-apart people 
  live. This is how you deal with this, this is how you deal with that. God has 
  a whole system of government set up. Gee, too bad we didn't follow it in the 
  first place. Maybe then our courts wouldn't be as messed up as they 
  are.
   
  I 
  don't understand WHY people freak out over 613 commands. They're reiterated in 
  the newer Testament. In fact, the newer Testament contains 1,050 commands! 
  Yeshua made the commands fuller, harder even. 
  Yes, 
  there are 613 commands. However, YOU don't have to follow each of them. There 
  are commands for men, which you're not a man, so they don't apply. 
  I know you're not a Levitical priest, so, whack away a whole SLEW of the 
  613. Let's see...how about instructions (law) for you in particular since 
  you're a woman.Not to get personal, but I believe you're an older 
  woman, correct? Well, then you can knock out the laws for Niddah (the monthly 
  cycle) as well as the child bearing laws. 
   
  When 
  you were raising your children, didn't you have House Rules? Why did you give 
  the Rules of the House to your children? To keep them safe? To keep order? To 
  protect? God did the same thing for us. He's a loving Father who wants to keep 
  His children safe and holy. Did you ever give your children a rule that they 
  didn't understand? You knew the reasoning behind it and it was probably a good 
  reason. God does the same thing. Every single one of the 613 fall under TWO 
  categories. Every single law of the 613 have to do with either A. Loving God, 
  or B. Loving your Neighbor. Funny, our house rules are just like that. I bet 
  yours were, too.
   
  Kabbalah is something different, Judy. It's a much 
  deeper spiritual application. I would not suggest reading it. There are also 
  two different types of Kabbalah. God Himself says the laws He gives are "not 
  far from you". It is NOT impossible. Maybe we should list all the laws and see 
  exactly how many apply. Would that help?
   
  Being worn out due to learning a new one every day is 
  something Paul was attempting for others coming in. It's what he speaks of in 
  Acts...Kay's paraphrase
  Paul 
  and the Council: Okay, we've got to DO something with these people coming in. 
  We can't fellowship with them. They can't come into the sanctuary. In order to 
  be able to do that...we have to give them these four rulesdon't 
  fornicate, don't eat strangled foods, don't worship other idolsthey'll be 
  coming to the synagogue every Shabbat. They'll be hearing the Torah when they 
  come each week. It takes us three years to read the whole Torah. They can 
  handle little bits of it each week. They'll learn. Slow, but sure, they'll 
  build up and they'll learn. That's what we can do with them! Wow, we solved 
  our problem!
   
  I've 
  got lots of people in for the weekend. I won't be on much. Shall we look at 
  ALL the laws and see what they are about? See which ones apply and then maybe 
  we'll have a good number? Maybe after that, we should check out the 1050 in 
  the Newer Testament and compare when we're done with that.
   
  Kay
  
-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Judy 
TaylorSent: Thursday, 28 October, 2004 06.57To: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: 
[EMAI

Re: [TruthTalk] 613 Commands

[Marlin Halverson]

Let us start with number 1:
 

1 To know there is a God, EXO 20:2 I
Now the scripture merely makes a statement, not a command, "To 
know...". 
EXO 20:2 I [am] the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of 
Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Now, number 2:
2 Not to entertain thoughts of other gods besides Him, EXO 20:3 

The scripture clearly says not to "have other Gods...," but 
Judaism says not to "entertain thoughts of other gods...". This is not 
accurate.
EXO 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Number 3:
3 To know that He is one Deut. 6:4
The scripture merely makes a declaration here.
DEU 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God 
[is] one LORD:
number 4:
4 To love Him Deut. 6:5
This is an abbreviated summary of the command to love God three 
ways.  We have the first command 
of Judaism that resembles a direct command in the 
scripture.
DEU 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy 
God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy 
might.
I could go on.  The point is that there are plenty of 
beautiful commands clearly in the scripture.  It is not necessary to invent 
new commands that may be obliquely related to ideas expressed in the scripture 
as Judaism has done.  The commands of God are not the commands of 
Judaism.
Marlin
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Slade 
  Henson 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 11:02 
  PM
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] 613 
  Commands
  
  Thank you for your post, Marlin. Now, if you'd be so kind, please 
  return to that list at http://www.aish.com/literacy/mitzvahs/The_613_Commandments.asp  and please list me the 
  commands that are NOT found in Scripture. When you find this exercise 
  fruitless, please understand that several commands are REPEATED... easily 
  explaining this 659 number.
   
  -- 
  slade
  
-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Marlin 
HalversonSent: Friday, 05 November, 2004 22.44To: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 613 
Commands

Dear friends,
 
I was set straight about "the 613 commandments" by a 
friend and brother.  He sent me this link and admonition:
 

  
  http://www.aish.com/literacy/mitzvahs/The_613_Commandments.asp 
   
  The trappings of Judaism are a poor substitute for 
  having the indwelling of God's spirit and being cleansed by the sacrifice 
  of Jesus Christ.
I thought that the 613 commandments had been 
derived from the scriptures alone.  This is because a friend of mine 
had faithfully identified 659 identifiable commands from the scripture 
before, and later revised his study to identify many more.  

 
I had assumed that Jewish practitioners 
had gone through a similar faithful study to arrive at their 
number.  When I saw the list posted at the above site, I found that 
some were and many were not derived out of the scripture.  The 613 laws 
of Judaism contain some laws summarized from the scriptures, but many of 
their laws are merely Jewish traditions that use some scriptural reference 
that may be somewhat related to the idea, but are not laws recorded in the 
scripture.  According to one source, Judaism has 2800 other 
rules.  
I wanted to let you know that I was wrong when 
I thought the so called "613 commandments" were from the scripture.  
Some are, but others are not.  
 
Love,
 
Marlin

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Slade Henson 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 5:24 
  AM
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] 613 
  Commands
  
  Hi Judy:
  613 commands in the Torah, yes. Directly from 
  God, not man. Why? Because God says Be Holy, because I AM holy. This 
  is HOW a holy, set-apart people live. This is how you deal with this, 
  this is how you deal with that. God has a whole system of government set 
  up. Gee, too bad we didn't follow it in the first place. Maybe then our 
  courts wouldn't be as messed up as they are.
   
  I don't understand WHY people freak out over 613 
  commands. They're reiterated in the newer Testament. In fact, the newer 
  Testament contains 1,050 commands! Yeshua made the commands fuller, harder 
  even. 
  Yes, there are 613 commands. However, YOU don't 
  have to follow each of them. There are commands for men, which you're not 
  a man, so they don't apply. I know you're not a Levitical 
  priest, so, whack away a whole SLEW of the 613. Let's see...how about 
  instructions (law) for you in particular since you're a woman.Not to 
  get personal, but I believe you're an older woman, correct? Well, 
  then you can knock out the laws for Niddah (the monthly cycle) as well as 
  the child bearing laws. 
   
  When y

Re: [TruthTalk] 613 Commands

[Marlin Halverson]

Slade, 
You can accuse me of nit picking.  I only tell 
you the truth.  The 613 points are paraphrased interpretations of scripture 
by Judaism at best.  They may or may not be the actual commandments 
from the scripture.  The rigors of tradition have a form of religion and 
its own sense of righteousness.  But traditions are niether the 
commandments nor the righteousness of God.
Take for instance # 76
76 To say the Shema twice daily, Deut. 6:7 

This is not a law of God.  It does not resemble 
its scriptural reference.  This point of Judaism may 
actually require vain repetitions.  The actual verse commands me 
to teach my children the scriptures in various locations and times.  

DEU 6:7 And thou shalt teach 
them diligently unto thy children, and 
shalt    talk 
of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when 
thou    
walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou 
risest    
up.
Now take #79
79 To wear tefillin on the head Deut. 6:8
Certainly the commands are so near and dear that they 
are as an adornment that one may wear on the forehead.  But this says 
to wear leather cubes containing scriptural texts inscribed on parchment on the 
head literally.  This was not the command of God:
DEU 6:8 And thou shalt bind 
them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine 
eyes.
Jesus strongly rebuked those who wore such 
tokens for show, saying, "..all their works 
they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge 
the borders of their garments, And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the 
chief seats in the synagogues..." (Matthew 23:1-3,5-6 KJV)
Jesus warned about the dangers of replacing God's 
Law, or attempting to obey God's Law with one's own laws and traditions, saying, 
"This people draweth nigh unto me with 
their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from 
me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines 
the commandments of men ... Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not 
planted, shall be rooted up." (Matthew 15:8-9,13 KJV)
Jesus obeyed the law perfectly in every way, 
and was the perfect sacrifice.  He did not wear such physical things as an 
example to us.  He lived our example in thought and deed.  His life 
demonstrates what the commandment of Deut. 6:8 means.
Marlin
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Slade 
  Henson 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 6:09 
  PM
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] 613 
  Commands
  
  C'mon, Marlin, you're nit picking here. Accuracy is not necessary when 
  there are a lot of different ways to translate a passage. As far as#1, the 
  first commandment IS to know God. You just have a different perspective on 
  it.
   
  #2 
  is just another way of looking at Ex 20.3
  #3 
  is not a dogmatic statement in Hebrew. Where is the verb after HEAR O 
  Israel??? Find it and perhaps you'll understand.
   
  These are not newly invented commands. They are synopses of Scripture. 
  If the author had placed the whole translated passage I get the sense you'd 
  still find fault with it because the rendering doesn't fit with your personal 
  favorite translation.
   
  It's 
  all Scripture. Not a SINGLE ONE originates outside 
  Scripture.
  
-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Marlin 
HalversonSent: Saturday, 06 November, 2004 16.29To: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 613 
Commands
Let us start with number 1:
 

1 To know there is a God, EXO 20:2 I
Now the scripture merely makes a statement, not a command, "To 
know...". 
EXO 20:2 I [am] the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land 
of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Now, number 2:
2 Not to entertain thoughts of other gods besides Him, EXO 
20:3 
The scripture clearly says not to "have other Gods...," but 
Judaism says not to "entertain thoughts of other gods...". This is not 
accurate.
EXO 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Number 3:
3 To know that He is one Deut. 6:4
The scripture merely makes a declaration here.
DEU 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our 
God [is] one LORD:
number 4:
4 To love Him Deut. 6:5
This is an abbreviated summary of the command to love God 
three ways.  We have the first command 
of Judaism that resembles a direct command in the 
scripture.
DEU 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD 
thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy 
might.
I could go on.  The point is that there are plenty 
of beautiful commands clearly in the scripture.  It is not necessary to 
invent new commands that may be obliquely related to ideas expressed in the 
scripture as Judaism has done.  The commands of God are not the 
commands of Judaism.
Marlin
 

Re: [TruthTalk] 613 Commands

[Marlin Halverson]

I appreciated your previous post , Kay, and shared it with 
others.  It was they who alerted me to the 613 extrapolated points of 
Judaism not being exactly what is in the scriptures.  Your observations 
about what would apply hold true, however, for the actual commandments that are 
in the scripture, regardless of the total number of them.  
--Marlin

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Slade 
  Henson 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 6:47 
  PM
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] 613 
  Commands
  
  Slade's wife willingly obeys God's commands. I am not under 613. I 
  believe I already did a post regarding thisthere are not 613 commands for 
  any ONE person. There are commands for just men, just women, just Levites, 
  etc. Last I checked, I was not a man. None of the laws concerning men concern 
  me. Nor am I a Levite, none of those laws concern me (and there are a TON of 
  those). I'm not a part of the Sanhedrin ( a judge in a court), nor am I a King 
  of a country, I don't own a company or have hired employees, I don't have any 
  slaves. Are you getting the picture? Should we disobey the laws for moral 
  character? 
  Don't be afraid of the number...your state has a ton more laws than 
  Scripture on its statutes.
   
  Kay

Re: [TruthTalk] unsubscribe

[Marlin Halverson]

I have always appreciated your contributions.  
You will be missed.  --Marlin

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 7:41 
  PM
  Subject: [TruthTalk] unsubscribe
  
  
  I have come to the 
  conclusion (duh!) that my participation on TT is not a worthwhile 
  contribution. I need to use my time wisely as a faithful steward.  Please 
  unsubscribe me.  Thanks and blessings to each one of you.  Let me 
  know when you figure it all out.  Just remember, it’s not what you know 
  but Who you know. See you on the other side. J 
  Izzy
   
  

 

Re: Re: [TruthTalk] Tearing down?

[Marlin Halverson]

Do you think that the law is sin 
- Original Message -
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [TruthTalk] Tearing down?


> David Miller wrote:
> > I had asked in that post if Slade considered a widow
> > who had married another man to have a "renewed"
> > marriage contract or a new one.
>
> Slade wrote:
> > The logic is wrong here. We are the widow who are then
> > able to marry our True Husband. We are not divorced from
> > Torah of Moses to marry Messiah, we are divorced from
> > the "Torah of sin" (to quote D.Stern, I think) to marry Messiah.
>
> There are two questions involved here.  First, I was just asking whether
or
> not a widow who married again was considered to have a renewed or new
> marriage contract.  Can I assume that your answer here is that a widow who
> married again has a new marriage contract?
>
> The second question concerns the passage in Romans.  You say that we are
not
> divorced from "Torah of Moses" to marry Messiah, but rather we are
divorced
> from "Torah of sin."  Let's examine that, but first let me affirm that we
> are indeed to divorce from the Torah of sin, and to consider ourselves
dead
> to the Torah of sin, that we might be married to Messiah.  We agree on
that,
> but not on the Torah of Moses thing.  Look at the passage for yourself.
>
> Romans 7:3-13
> (3) So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man,
she
> shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free
from
> that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another
> man.
> (4) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body
> of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised
> from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
> (5) For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the
> law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
> (6) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were
> held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of
> the letter.
> (7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not
known
> sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said,
Thou
> shalt not covet.
> (8) But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner
of
> concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
> (9) For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came,
sin
> revived, and I died.
> (10) And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto
> death.
> (11) For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it
> slew me.
> (12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and
> good.
> (13) Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin,
> that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that
> sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
>
> Verse 3.  Clearly this is Torah of Moses.  The Torah of Moses is what
> prohibits adultery, but releases the woman to remarry in the case of
death.
> The Torah of sin does not prohibit adultery.  So verse 3 is speaking about
> the Torah of Moses.  Agreed?
>
> Verse 4. You believe that this verse is talking about Torah of sin while I
> believe it continues to talk about Torah of Moses.  Why do I believe that?
> Because of the previous and subsequent verses.
>
> Verse 5.  The motions of sin, which were by the law... which law?  The law
> of Moses, as he explains in verse 6 & 7.
>
> Verse 6.  Now we are delivered from the law... which law?  The law of
Moses,
> as he explains in verses 7 & 8.
>
> Verse 7.  Is the law sin?  Well, if we were talking about the law of sin,
> the answer would be yes, but no, we are talking about the law of Moses.
> Therefore, verses 4, 5, & 6 leading up to this verse clearly has the law
of
> Moses in view.  This is most abundantly clear by what follows next.  He
> actually quotes the law:  I had not know lust, except the law had said,
> 'Thou shalt not covet.'  Which law is this?  Clearly not the law of sin,
but
> the law of Moses.  What Paul is explaining here is an interaction between
> the law of Moses and the law of sin in our members.
>
> Verse 8.  Without the law, sin was dead.  Which law?  Again, it is the law
> of Moses.
>
> Look at verse 11:  sin taking occasion by the commandment... which
> commandment?  The commandment that comes from the law of Moses.
>
> I could go on and on, but surely you get the point.  The law Paul speaks
> about here is the law of Moses.  He specifically quotes a commandment of
> that law (thou shalt not covet).  More importantly, he is talking about a
> kind of relationship with the law, a covenant, whereby one seeks to be
> justified before God through observing the law of Moses.  I believe you
have
> used the word "legalism" to describe this 

Re: [TruthTalk] The Mind of Christ

[Marlin Halverson]

1CO 11:18   For first of all, when ye 
come together in the church, I hear 
that    there 
be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
1CO 11:19   For there must be also 
heresies among you, that they which 
are    
approved may be made manifest among you.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Lance 
  Muir 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 9:46 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Mind of 
  Christ
  
  What referencest thou here, Terry? Division? 
  Discord? Disagreement? Never! Well.
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Terry Clifton 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: December 25, 2004 08:27
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Mind of 
Christ


  Grace to allPeace you will find 
elsewhereJD
 ==Has 
anyone else noticed how Satan is able to use God's own words to divide us, 
even on this day set aside to show God's love for man and man's love for our 
Savior?Well said John.  No peace here today.  Not even a 
truce.Terry

[TruthTalk] 200 million Christians being persecuted

[Marlin Halverson]

I am weary of the bickering.  But I thought I'd share 
this with TruthTalk.  According to Charles Colson, 
more than 200 million Christians are being persecuted today.  Having 
this realization puts things into perspective.  Please check out:

"Women and Children First, Defining the Face of Persecution," BreakPoint with Charles Colson, 
November 7, 
2003, Commentary #031107

  "The face of 
  suffering is a female face," observes Marli Spieker, founder of Trans World 
  Radio's "Women of Hope" broadcast. In Indonesia she met a young woman who had 
  refused to deny Christ. So a jihad member put a gun into her mouth and said 
  "Let's see your God help you now." Then he pulled the trigger. Miraculously, 
  she survived, but she was horribly disfigured. It's the face of Soon 
  Ok Lee, a Christian and former prisoner in a North Korean concentration camp. 
  She testified before the Senate that Christians are assigned to the cast iron 
  factory, the most dangerous place in the gulag. She saw a group of elderly 
  Christians killed, one-by-one, doused with molten iron because they would not 
  deny Christ.
http://www.pfm.org/BPtemplate.cfm?Section=BreakPoint_Commentaries1&CONTENTID=10842&TEMPLATE=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm 
The most important thing is to not violate one's 
conscience before God, who can even take a Christian killer like Paul and make 
him to serve the brethren whom he had previously persecuted.  Paul did not 
violate his own conscience before his conversion, and God converted 
him.  After his eyes were opened to the truth, he  followed it.  
I believe that so long as we have a heart to hear what the Holy Spirit says 
to the churches, and follow God, He will straighten out the errors of our 
ways.
 
--Marlin

Re: [TruthTalk] 200 million Christians being persecuted

[Marlin Halverson]

REV 2:7 {He that hath an ear, 
let him hear what the Spirit saith unto 
the    
churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree 
of    life, 
which is in the midst of the paradise of God.}

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 6:23 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 200 million 
  Christians being persecuted
  
  thx for the purty 
  pink backgrounds, Iz--i borrowed 'em from your 
  post/s:)
   
  is JC having the final word here--or Marlin 
  
   
  On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:14:26 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  writes:
  

Oh, well, 
you’re forgiven. J 
Izzy
 
-Original 
Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry CliftonSent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 3:07 
PMTo: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 200 million 
Christians being persecuted
 

Boy, I must be getting 
old!  I don't remember just reading a scriptural defense, or attacking 
you.

[TruthTalk] the meatrix

[Marlin Halverson]

If you have not 
yet seen the Meatrix animation, please do.http://themeatrix.com/
 

Re: [TruthTalk] The end of Art

[Marlin Halverson]

Thanks for the link.  
 
Amorality was already pervasive in the '80s.  What 
has masqueraded as "art" has been an attack on values, funded by the NEA and 
other 'charities.'  
 
I was involved with art and music for a large portion 
of my life.  Some of my writing for art exhibitions that I curated has 
been published.  A journal called Experimental Musical 
Instruments reprinted some of my writings.

EMI Back Issues Volumes 1 & 2, 
6/1985-4/1987... Marlin 
Halverson's Sonic Art exhibition catalog was published for the Sonic 
ArtExhibition at the Art Gallery at California State College in San 
Bernardino ... www.windworld.com/emi/back_issues/bi1-2.htm - 72k - Cached - Similar pages 
EMI Back Issues Volumes 9 & 10, 
9/1993-6/1995... [Additional keywords: 
flowerpots, homemade instruments, idiophones]. "Environmentand Process": 
Marlin Halverson. 5 pages; 10 photos; 1 drawing. ... 
www.windworld.com/emi/back_issues/bi9-10.htm - 63k - 
Cached - Similar pages 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 12:05 
  PM
  Subject: [TruthTalk] The end of Art
  
  
  I agree with The End of Art, by 
  Vox Day: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35051. 
  

Re: [TruthTalk] Questions

[Marlin Halverson]

I am not sure who wrote the following: 

  [When 'peace in the world' emerges from y'all and Marlin 
  keepin' the commandments together, let me know--I may sign up for the choir 
   ] :
Marlin: Keeping the commandments will not bring 
peace.  That will take the return of Jesus Himself.  For the time 
being, Jesus says:

  {Think 
  not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a 
  sword.}And it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of 
  commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to teach and to preach in 
  their cities.  MAT 10:34, and 11:1    

 
 
 
- Original Message - > 
Dave H: You oughta be real proud of these two TTrs--they've convinced each other 
to be like Brigham Young:) > >> > -- "David Miller" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> 
> Slade wrote:> >..The commandments and the Spirit > 
> are intended as [our]guides > > --> > 
<<..we can return to live with God if we keep His commandments...> 
> > Our Father in Heaven gives His children commandments because 
He loves them... > > Obeying God's commandments may sometimes seem 
like a sacrifice, but He will bless you for your obedience with "peace in this 
world, and eternal life in the world to come" (Doctrine and Covenants 
59:23).>>> >   http://www.mormon.org/learn/0,8672,856-1,00.html> > BTW/FTR, the foregoing mormon.org site is linked to 
this one, the Internet's oldest Freemason site at MIT:> > 
http://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Masonry/Essays/> > Actually, maybe DavidM and Slade are more like JS than 
BY; what do you think??)> > > > 
> The 
best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!> Surf the web 
up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!> Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!> --> "Let your speech be 
always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer 
every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org> > 
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will 
be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send 
an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be 
subscribed.> 

Re: [TruthTalk] PAGAN WOLF FAQ

[Marlin Halverson]

What emerged as "Christianity" is actually paganism.  Most of the holidays
and many beliefs and observances of modern day "Christians" are Pagan, and
promoted by hierarchical groups.  The name of Jesus has been appropriated by
paganism.

What we have are some Pagans, calling themselves "Christians" who have
persecuted other Pagans, who have not converted to the paganism masquerading
as "Christianity."

--Marlin

- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 3:38 PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] PAGAN WOLF FAQ


> From: "Arsene Lupin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> JT: You say that paganism is so old, even older than Christianity and
> then refer to pagans being harrassed, tortured and killed by
> institutionalized religion Christianity included. Christianity wasn't
> institutionalized until 345 AD under Constantine. ...
--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to 
send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] PAGAN WOLF FAQ

[Marlin Halverson]

 
- Original Message - 
From: "Arsene Lupin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] PAGAN WOLF FAQ
> TPW: I heard that song and dance before. "Those 
were not TRUE Christians". > And we didn't appropriate Jesus' name. In 
fact history reveals that many > missionaries merely sought to divert the 
followers and say "this is whom you > worship now"...
 
Marlin: Somebody appropriates Jesus' name and deceives 
many:

  MAT 24:5    {For many shall come in my 
  name, saying, I am Christ; and 
  shall    
  deceive many.}MAR 13:6    {For many shall come in my name, 
  saying, I am [Christ]; and 
  shall    
  deceive many.}LUK 21:8    And he said, {Take heed that ye 
  be not deceived: for many 
  shall    
  come in my name, saying, I am [Christ]; and the time draweth 
  near:    go 
  ye not therefore after them.}
Couple Jesus' prophesy with "Christian" practices that are 
Pagan, but superimpose the name of Jesus Christ.  If Pagans did not 
appropriate Jesus' name, then what we have is a synthesis or a hybrid that has 
emerged with practices of the one, and a name from the 
other.

Re: [TruthTalk] Christmas Trees

[Marlin Halverson]

http://members.iinet.net.au/~gregga/hebrew/xmastree.html

  The Pagan Origin of The Christmas Tree
  The concept of the Christmas Tree originated around 3000 B.C. in ancient 
  Egypt with King Osiris and Queen Isis.After the untimely death of King 
  Osiris, his wife, Isis, propogated the demonic doctrine of the survival of 
  Osiris as a spirit. She claimed a full grown evergreen tree sprang overnight 
  from a dead stump, symbolising the new life of the Osiris spirit from his 
  death. On each anniversary of Osiris birth, which was the date we now know as 
  December 25th, Isis would leave gifts around this 
tree.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 9:22 
  AM
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Christmas 
Trees
  
  I remember last year we had a big thread 
  about Christmas trees.  I came across this while planning my calendar for 
  Parents Day Out and thought it was interesting.  Laura 
  
  
  The tradition of decorating the 
  Paradeisbaum, or Paradise trees, originated in 
  Europe. Christians would celebrate the holiday on Christmas Eve by acting out 
  important events in Scripture. One of the skits that was performed was the 
  'The Garden of Eden' scene. Since it was the wintertime in Europe it was not 
  possible to find an apple tree with apples, so an evergreen tree would be 
  substituted. The actors first hung apples on their "Paradise Trees", later 
  adding other adornments such as dried fruits and nuts.  
  The increase in popularity of the 
  Paradeisbaum is attributed to Martin Luther. It is believed that he first 
  added lighted candles to his Paradise Tree after walking home through the 
  woods one winter evening. He was in the midst of composing a sermon and was 
  awestruck by the brilliance of the millions of twinkling stars above the 
  evergreens. So inspired by the beauty of God's creation, he cut down an 
  evergreen and brought it home to his family, then wired lighted candles to the 
  tree to recreate the starlit scene. Paradise trees eventually became 
  known as 'Christ Trees', then Christmas Trees. It is believed that Christmas 
  trees were brought to America by Germans that immigrated to Pennsylvania. The 
  diary of Matthew Zahm of Lancaster, Pennsylvania, records the introduction of 
  the Christmas tree being brought to the New World December 20, 1821. 
   

Re: [TruthTalk] Christmas Trees

[Marlin Halverson]

 
The song goes:
 
Oh Christmas tree, oh Christmas tree,how lovely are thy 
branches ...
Men seem to want to idolize the creation or 
themselves.  This is the basis for every holiday that men 
have devised in opposition to the holy days and sabbaths that God 
created.
 
God gives those who love not the truth over to strong 
delusion.  [2TH 2:11]   The biblical evidence clearly shows that 
Jesus was born in the Fall, not in the dead of winter.  
Furthermore, the celebration of birthdays is actually foreign to the people 
of God.  The scripture shows that there would be false Christs, even 
those who claim that Jesus is the Christ, and yet would deceive many.  John 
writes that "...no lie is of the truth." 1JO 2:21 The truth cannot come out of a lie.  It ought to be asked: "Who 
changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature 
more than the Creator...?" ROM 1:25  

  There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the 
  end thereof [are] the ways of death.  PRO 14:12  
  There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the 
  end thereof [are] the ways of death.  PRO 16:25   

John admonishes us: "Little children, keep 
yourselves from idols. Amen."  1JO 5:21    
 
For those who do not care for the truth: 
"Have yourself a Merry Little 
Christmas..."
 
But the truth of God, both bitter and sweet, 
fulfills.  With Jesus; the Truth, Way and Life; as our daily bread, 
our bread of life, we are promissed eternal life.  That "evergreen 
tree" that you cut down for one holiday is going to die.
 
Love, 
 
Marlin

  P.S.: Thus saith the 
  LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of 
  heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.  For the customs of the 
  people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the 
  hands of the workman, with the axe.   They deck it with silver and 
  with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.  
  They [are] upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, 
  because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, 
  neither also [is it] in them to do good.    Forasmuch as [there 
  is] none like unto thee, O LORD; thou [art] great, and thy name [is] great in 
  might.   Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? for to thee doth it 
  appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise [men] of the nations, and in all 
  their kingdoms, [there is] none like unto thee.   But they are 
  altogether brutish and foolish: the stock [is] a doctrine of vanities.  
  JER 10:2-8    

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ShieldsFamily 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 11:14 
  AM
  Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Christmas 
  Trees
  
  
  Laura, 
   
  Can we hold off on the discussion 
  of nativity sets until we have resolved this Christmas tree issue first? Do 
  you really think that “what is pagan for some may not be pagan for others??? 
  Isn’t this a classic example of humanistic moral relativism? The main question 
  is not what someone “feels” is 
  pagan.  (God doesn’t really care about our feelings when judgment day 
  arrives, does He?) The question should be, I think, what does the Lord say is pagan? Can we discuss it 
  from that angle? Ideas, anyone? How do we discover whether or not the Lord 
  considers having a Christmas tree is an ungodly practice from the Lord’s point 
  of view? Marlin has brought up this issue several times, and I think it would 
  be a good thing to discuss as a group. 
   
  Izzy
   
  -Original 
  Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  On Behalf Of 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 11:50 
  PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Fwd: [TruthTalk] Christmas 
  Trees
   
  
  Below is more from the site Marlin 
  recommended.  Note that it also mentions the fruitlike tree from the 
  garden of Eden.  Interesting that it is also mentioned in the article I 
  posted.  Personally I think that if someone feels a Christmas Tree is 
  pagan and if it doesn't represent the "symbols" associated with Christmas then 
  it is wrong for them to have a tree.  I like the tree as a symbol and the 
  lights and ornaments and other decorations.  In no way am I intending to 
  put down Marlin.  My intent is only to point out that what is pagan for 
  some may not be pagan for others.
  
   
  
  Question:  Would any of you 
  consider Nativity sets idols?  Just curious.  
  Laura
  
   
  
   
  
  During the Middle Ages, the 
  Germans believed the evergreen trees were especially imbued with life since 
  they remained green throughout all of winter. Greenery was prominent in pagan 
  winter celebrations in honour of the tree spirit or spirit of 
  fertility.The Romans trimmed the trees with trinkets and toys at that 
  time of year. The Druids tied gilded apples to tree branches. For many, a tree 
  decorated with orbs and fruit-like object symbolis

[TruthTalk] "The X-Mas Files"

[Marlin Halverson]

If you want to remove the delusions of X-mas, check out Ken 
Hoeck's site:
"...Well, its nearly that time of year when people will partake, 
mostly in ignorance, in the revelry of the ancient celebrations of the 
Saturnalia and Brumalia in what is today called Christmas. The ancient 
celebration of the return of the sun complete with the ancient pagan trappings 
and painted Christian veneer can be read about online at the following pages of 
notes & quotes that we call - "The Truth On Christmas: The X-Mas 
Files":http://members.aol.com/KHoeck777/NwsClpz/xmasvol1.html : X-mas Files 
Volume Onehttp://members.aol.com/KHoeck777/NwsClpz/xmasvol2.html : X-mas Files 
Volume Twohttp://members.aol.com/KHoeck777/NwsClpz/xmasvol3.html : X-mas Files Volume 
Threehttp://members.aol.com/KHoeck777/NwsClpz/xmasvol4.html : X-mas Files Volume 
Fourhttp://members.aol.com/KHoeck777/NwsClpz/xmasvol5.html : X-mas Files Volume 
Five"

Re: [TruthTalk] Christmas Trees

[Marlin Halverson]

David M.: "Say what? Are you trying to say 
that I am a false Christ because I claim that Jesus is the 
Christ?..."
 
Hello David M.,
 
I do not know whether Jesus was referring to you or 
not.  That is between you and Him.  I merely believe what Jesus said 
about those who would use his name after His departure to heaven.  He said 
that many coming in His name would deceive many.  For 
clarification, I refer to these scriptures.  

  MAT 24:24   {For there shall arise false 
  Christs, and false prophets, and 
  shall    
  shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] 
  possible,    
  they shall deceive the very elect.}MAR 13:22   {For false 
  Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall 
  shew    
  signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even 
  the    
  elect.}
  MAT 24:5    {For many shall come in my 
  name, saying, I am Christ; and 
  shall    
  deceive many.}MAR 13:6    {For many shall come in my name, 
  saying, I am [Christ]; and 
  shall    
  deceive many.}LUK 21:8    And he said, {Take heed that ye 
  be not deceived: for many 
  shall    
  come in my name, saying, I am [Christ]; and the time draweth 
  near:    go 
  ye not therefore after them.}

Why do the many wish to learn the way of the heathen 
in order to remember Jesus?  The scripture says "Thus saith the LORD, Learn 
not the way of the heathen." [JER 10:2] 
 Jesus did leave a record of something 
to do in remembrance of Him.  It had nothing to do with cutting down trees 
or celebrating his birth.  It instead focuses upon the tree upon which He 
was hung, upon His death, and upon His resurrection, His earnest desire 
to keep the Passover with His disciples, and His ascension to the Father on 
the wave sheaf day.

  LUK 22:19   And he took bread, and gave 
  thanks, and brake [it], and gave 
  unto    
  them, saying, {This is my body which is given for you: this do 
  in    
  remembrance of me.}1CO 11:24   And when he had given thanks, he 
  brake [it], and said, {Take, 
  eat:    
  this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance 
  of    
  me.}1CO 11:25   After the same manner also [he took] the cup, 
  when he had 
  supped,    
  saying, {This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, 
  as    oft 
  as ye drink [it], in remembrance of me.}
I'll take the real remembrance over a counterfeit 
any day.  If any man asks, I will tell them of the real remembrance, and 
not a counterfeit.  

  {Or what man is there of you, whom if his son 
  ask bread, will he give him a stone?}  MAT 
  7:9 
  {If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is 
  a father, will he give him a stone? or if [he ask] a fish, will he for a 
  fish give him a serpent?}  LUK 11:11   
There is one exception to sharing the truth with 
others, but it is not always easy for me to discern the situation until it is 
too late:

  {Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, 
  neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under 
  their feet, and turn again and rend you.} MAT 7:6
Love,
 
Marlin
 
 
 
- Original Message - 
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 9:49 PM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Christmas 
Trees
> Marlin 
wrote:> > Men seem to want to idolize the creation or 
themselves.  > > This is the basis for every holiday that men 
have devised > > in opposition to the holy days and sabbaths that God 
created.> > God gives those who love not the truth over to strong 
delusion.> > ... the celebration of birthdays is actually foreign to 
the > > people of God.  > > Bah humbug.  We 
have seen this spirit of Scrooge before. What good thing> comes from 
it?> > Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are 
defiled and> unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and 
conscience is> defiled. (Titus 1:15 KJV)> > I'm looking 
forward to celebrating Christ's birth this year. It is a> wonderful time 
with the family.  I have a 13 foot Christmas tree all> decked out 
with lights and ornaments in my living room.  We will> exchange 
presents on Christmas day and tell about Jesus and his birth> and spread 
the joy of Christ around.  Praise the Lord.  Many> 
opportunities will arise to speak to others about Jesus Christ during> 
this wonderful holiday. Songs of glory and praise will be made unto> 
Jesus in public places and door to door. Glory be to God in the highest> 
for this opportunity to preach Christ to the world.  The atheists 
and> secular humanists are trying to outlaw Christmas and many 
Messianics> join them, but they will not prevail because Jesus is the 
Christ and> mere men cannot stamp out the Spirit of Christ. Jesus is Lord 
of the> Christians and the secularists.  As long as believers in 
Christ have> breath, we will declare his birth, his ministry, his death, 

Re: [TruthTalk] Christmas trees

[Marlin Halverson]

I did not write that, Izzy did.

- Original Message - 
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 9:36 AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Christmas trees


> Marlin wrote:
> > So, while I am not convinced that Christmas trees,
> > or celebrating Christmas on Dec 25th for that matter,
> > are pagan/sinful practices, I'm willing to hear
> > Marlin out as often as he wants to discuss it.
> > To me, it's one of those scripturally
> > not-specifically-spelled-out situations.
>
> One problem is that Marlin, like many on this issue, does not discuss
> the matter.  He simply states his position and lists all manner of links
> and the writings of others to make his case.  The information he
> presents is full of holes, and when these problems were pointed out last
> year, there was little or no response.  Now he presents the same old
> arguments all over again as if it has not already been discussed.  He
> even presents the same Scriptures.
>
> If someone wants to discuss Christmas trees, that would be fine, but to
> just blast shotguns of information upon people who celebrate Christmas
> produces no good fruit as far as I can see. It seems to me that he just
> does not celebrate Christmas and has some kind of chip on his shoulder
> toward those who do.  Maybe he is upset that Christmas is more
> celebrated in our culture than the Jewish moedim.  This seems to be the
> same problem with those of us who give greater honor to observing the
> Lord's Day of resurrection rather than the Jewish Sabbath on Saturnday.
> :-)
>
> Peace be with you.
> David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.
>
> --
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>
--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Christmas Trees

[Marlin Halverson]

  David M.: But what seems odd in 
  what you wrote was that they would say that Jesusis the Christ, and then 
  at the same time say that they are the Christ.The false Christs, the ones 
  coming bearing his name as their own, do notsay that Jesus is the Christ, 
  do they?  
Marlin:  Yes there are two categories 
here.  
1) Those saying that He is the Christ.  Note 
the definite article "the," and what follows, the many deceive many by 
saying He is the Christ.  
2) False Christs.   Note the plural 
nature of the word Christs.
    a) Some teach fake Christs 
instead of the real Christ, counterfeits that look like the genuine
    b) Some personify 
saviors, and "shew great signs and wonders," and get followings after 
themselves instead of leading others to the true Christ.  This type of the 
false Christs could refer back to the many who deceive the many by saying 
He is the Christ.
 

  David M.: Clearly 
  this Word was spoken to Israel concerning the heathen nationswhich cut 
  down trees and built false gods out of them.  This in no 
  waycorresponds to Gentiles celebrating Christmas, the birth of 
  JesusChrist.  The similarity of trees being involved is no more 
  compelling toyour argument than if they were building a house out of the 
  trees andyou were against building houses out of 
  trees.
Marlin: You presume to be a Gentile.  In the 
early Church, those Gentiles who turned to God did not identify with their 
past heritage or ways.  They repented.  Notice:

  Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto 
  these dumb idols, even as ye were led.  1CO 12:2    
  And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the 
  temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and 
  walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my 
  people.  2CO 6:16    For they themselves shew of us 
  what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from 
  idols to serve the living and true God;  1TH 1:9 
  Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.  1JO 
  5:21    
They turned from their idolatrous ways.  


  David M.: But you 
  make it sound like one substitutes Christmas for the Eucharist.That is not 
  at all what happens.  In fact, many churches celebrate theEucharist 
  on Christmas Eve. They are not mutually 
  exclusivecelebrations.
I make no such sound.  All those counterfiets 
are not the genuine truth.

  David M.: Hanukah was not a divinely commanded celebration.  
  
Marlin: True.  It is not commanded.  It 
is Jewish tradition.  It is something foreign to me.
 

  David M.:  
  What do you mean, "real remembrance" over a counterfeit?  What is 
  thereal remembrance of his birth? Do you or anybody else 
  know?.Well then, tell us.  What is the real remembrance of which 
  you speak?
Marlin: The real remembrance is in the holy days 
and Sabbaths that God commanded to be kept as memorials.  These are the 
days that men reject infavor of fables.  Notice:

  And they shall turn away [their] ears from the 
  truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2TI 4:4
  Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and 
  commandments of men, that turn from the truth.  TIT 1:14
  For we have not followed cunningly devised 
  fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus 
  Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.  2PE 
1:16

Re: [TruthTalk] HAPPY YULE DAY!!

[Marlin Halverson]

Izzy: "The best argument I've heard yet for Believers to NOT have a
Christmas tree."

Again, Gentiles who turned to God did not identify with their past heritage
or ways.  They repented:
  Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as
ye were led.  1CO 12:2
  And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the
temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk
in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.  2CO 6:16
  For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you,
and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;  1TH
1:9
  Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.  1JO 5:21
--Marlin
--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] flu shots

[Marlin Halverson]

David: Exodus 15:26 says, "I will put none of these diseases upon thee,
> which I have brought upon the Egyptians."  If God gives me such a
> promise, it would be nothing but doubt and unbelief for me to inject
> myself or my family with these same diseases with the idea that I am
> going to protect myself from them.  

Marlin:  We agree on this!
--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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[TruthTalk] "Mad Cow Disease"

[Marlin Halverson]

Dear Loved Ones:
"Mad Cow Disease" is in the news 
again.  I believe that Mark Purdey has discovered the answers surrounding 
this mysterious plague.  Please visit the links to his site below and read 
what he has to say.  If you love truth, I believe you will appreciate the 
work of this hero.
Love, Marlin
http://www.markpurdey.com/articles.htm
http://www.markpurdey.com/index.html
http://www.markpurdey.com/science_the_origins_of_bse.htm

"Chernobyl and BSE ?
But what about the more aggressive, new strain of TSE – the 
massive epidemic of BSE/vCJD that suddenly blighted the UK’s young cattle and 
human population post November 1986? Did this big time epidemic result from an 
overexposure to the artificial sources of the eco-prerequisites that we are 
talking about here?
In this respect, it seems likely that the UK’s BSE and vCJD 
epidemics were caused by the simultaneous exposure of cattle, cats, humans and 
zoo animals to a toxic combination of factors - the widely used copper-chelating 
organo dithiophosphate (OP) insecticides (35) and the fall out of radioactive 
metals from the Chernobyl eruption (20).
During the 1980s British cattle herds and humans were exposed to 
exclusively high doses of these insecticides for warble fly and head lice 
control respectively (42), whereupon the prion proteins of the OP treated 
animals were starved of their copper co partners (35). This rendered the prion 
protein vulnerable to binding up with certain rogue replacement metals, such as 
the radioactive strontium 90, which were rained down at high concentrations onto 
the soils of NW Europe after the Chernobyl accident (20) – the precise region 
that later became the world’s most intensive hotspot of 
BSE."

"The so called 
“infectivity” of the prion is a misnomer and should be correctly defined as the 
magnetic/ “reactive” free radical generating capacity of the Mn3+ component of 
the prion; which remains active at all temperatures below the 550 degree “curie 
point”.  
TSE can be likened to 
a solar charged battery on continuous charge; where the Mn contaminated/Cu 
depleted circadian pathways absorb and pile up, rather than conducting the vital 
life force energies of incoming ultra violet, acoustic and geomagnetic 
radiation. Instead of harnessing these energies for the body’s own bio-rhythmic 
requirements, an infrasonic shock induced metamorphosis of the Mn atom 
intervenes ; initiating an explosive free radical mediated pathogenesis that 
perverts the healthy pathways of sound and light; Cu prions are replaced by 
‘hyperpolarized’ Mn prions that seed self perpetuating ‘cluster bombs’ of 
radical mediated neurodegeneration. TSE ensues." 
-
"An impartial study 
of the epidemiology of BSE/vCJD suggests that the conventional consensus on the 
origins of BSE/vCJD is severely flawed (4)(5)(6) for the following reasons; 




  
  
1. BSE has failed to 
  surface in the cattle populations of the Middle East, India, Africa, 
  North America, Third World countries, etc, despite these countries 
  receiving substantial tonnages of the BSE incriminated meat and 
  bone meal (MBM) imported from the UK from the 1960s onwards (7). UK MBM 
  was exported either in its straight feed form or as an inclusion in cattle 
  concentrate feeds (7). 
  2. 40,000 + cases of BSE 
  have erupted in UK cows that were born after the 1988 ban on MBM entering 
  cattle feed, and more recently, 22 cases of BSE have erupted in cows 
  born after the 1996 ban on MBM going into animal feeding stuffs 
  designated for all types of domestic animal (8). Furthermore, some 
  BSE endemic countries have experienced a greater total number of BSE 
  cases in cattle born after their respective MBM bans than in cows 
  born before. 
  3. There have been no 
  reported cases of BSE in TSE susceptible species, such as  sheep and 
  goats (8), despite the customary inclusion of an MBM protein source 
  in  their concentrated feeds. 
  4. Four of the original 
  five Kudu antelopes which contracted BSE at the London Zoo  had no 
  possible access to feeds containing MBM (9). 
  5. BSE erupted in four 
  cattle that were raised on MAFF’s  former Liscombe  experimental 
  farm on Exmoor – a beef suckler farm which was designed to raise  
  beef from an all grass/silage system without any resort to purchased in 
  concentrate  feeds (personal communication; M. Stanbury, formerly 
  ADAS, Quantock House, Taunton, UK.) 
  6. Alterations in the 
  rendering of MBM (cessation of solvent extraction, lower 
  temperatures) from the batch to the continuous flow system had 
  purportedly  enabled the survival of scrapie agent in UK MBM, thus 
  initiating the outbreak of BSE (10). However several scrapie endemic 
  countries, such as the USA and Scandinavia, had also adopted these 
  same BSE-causing prerequisites int

Re: [TruthTalk] An open question: What is the state of the dead?

[Marlin Halverson]

- Original Message - 
From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 9:42 PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] An open question


Don't get me started on this, I do not have time for it now!  Let the dead
burry the dead.
Marlin

> An open question to all TT'rs:
>
>Do you believe that upon our death we will remain, or will be
immediately
> conscious, or do you believe that when we die we remain in a state of
> unconsciousness until some future time, possibly the resurrection, then we
> all become conscious at the same time, or near the same time? I am
> interested in hearing all opinions; Christian, LDS, Pagan (if TPW is still
> with us), and any others that may be lurking. I would also like to hear
the
> reason for your belief. References would be helpful, too, if they helped
you
> form your belief.
>
> Perry
>
--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] An open question

[Marlin Halverson]

...or do you believe that when we die we remain in a state of
> unconsciousness until some future time...> Perry

All right.  Sometimes, doesn't it seem that many of the 'living' 'live' in a
state of unconsciousness?

Consider the 'strong delusion' that is given over to men by God for those
who 'love not the truth.'  2TH 2:11

Here we have the 'living' 'dead.'  --Marlin
--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Is the Bible Complete?--Part 1

[Marlin Halverson]

Which edition of the Book of Mormon do you believe is the true edition?  It
is my understanding that there have been several revisions over the years.

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the Bible Complete?--Part 1


> Blainer)  I agree with you, Brother Glenn,  that both sides of an issue
> should usually be studied.   For instance, I read some of the writings of
> David Whitmer, one of the three witnesses to the Book of Mormon  (re:  An
> Address to All Believers In Christ), and decided he was an enemy to the
> truth, and I even went so far as to say he was a betrayer and a traitor
> to Joseph Smith,  just as Judas Iscariot was to Jesus.
>
> But upon reading some of his other writings, I feel I need to modify my
> opinion of brother David Whitmer.  I see that he was in reality a man of
> INTEGRITY and HONESTY.  I recently read his deathbed witness that all he
> ever said regards this remarkable vision as written in the Book of Mormon
> was true.  He, along with the other two witnesses, never renigged his
> testimony.   He wrote and published the same testimony several times in
> his life.
>
> The following is one of the several testimonies he published:
>  "I have been surrounded by hostile mobs, on one occasion numbering four
> or five hundred, demanding I should deny what is published over my name
> in the Book Of Mormon;  but the testimony I gave to that mob made them
> fear and tremble, and I escaped from them."  (An interview with David
> Whitmer, by James Hart, at Richmond, Missouri, on August 21, 1883.)
>
> In the same interview, he said, "  I heard the voice of the angel, and
> saw the engravings on the plates, and the plates just as stated in the
> Book of Mormon.  And we were commanded to bear record of these things and
> that the book was translated by the gift and power of God."
> "You see that table by the wall," he remarked.  "Well, there was a table
> about that size, and the Heavenly Messenger brought the several plates
> and laid them on the table before our eyes, and we saw them and bore
> testimony of them, and our testimony is true.  And if these things are
> not true then there is no truth, and if there is no truth, there is no
> God, and if there is no God, there is no existence.  But I know there is
> a God, for I have heard His voice and witnessed the manifestations of His
> marvelous power."
>
> I count his testimony as the most valuable of the three because he was
> the only one who never rejoined the LDS Church after being
> excommunicated.  In fact, I think it was the Lord's will that he remain
> outside the church in order to make his testimony all the more
> believable.
>  He was apparently discouraged with Joseph Smith and Sydney Rigdon, and
> therefore had every reason to betray them if the whole thing had been a
> sham.  But he along with Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris (both rejoined
> the LDS Church before they died) maintained throughout their lives,
> withouit deviation, that they had seen a vision and had heard the voice
> of God bearing witness  that the plates were translated through the gift
> and power of God.  These testimonies, along with those of the eight
> witnesses who saw and hefted the plates but did not see the angel, leave
> me without doubt the Book of Mormon is the true word of God.  Their
> testimonies shall stand against all who resist the truth of God as
> contained in the Book of Mormon at the last day.
>
> On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 18:43:44 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > I understand what you are saying.  However, some wisdom must be used
> > here.
> > It is impossible to find the truth if one is not willing to study
> > both sides
> > of an issue.  I would never have seen the error of the Church of
> > Christ
> > without reading both pro and con.
>
>
> >
> > > Blainer)  You have to see this through spiritual eyes.  Try
> > thinking in
> > > terms of food.  If you eat a lot of junk-food, loaded with lots of
> > empty
> > > calories, you will probably end up with poor health.  On the other
> > hand,
> > > if you are more particular about what kind of food you eat,, you
> > will
> > > likely have good health.  Likewise, if you read a lot of negative
> > > Junk-literature, loaded with lies and half-truths, you will suffer
> > > spiritually.  But if you read positive literature and listen to
> > the
> > > spirit of the Holy Ghost, you will prosper spiritually.
> > > Mormonism teaches we can read anything we want.  We have no
> > restrictions
> > > on what we read.  It is purely a matter of individual choice.  We
> > are
> > > counseled  to use wisdom in our choices, however.
> > > We are not the ones who are brainwashed!!!  That is a joke,
> > because that
> > > is exactly how we see you!!   Why do you think I stay on TT?
> > Because I
> > > like being insulted?   Nope, I do it hoping somehow to convince
> > you of
> > > the error of your thin

Re: [TruthTalk] Is the Bible Complete?--Part 1

[Marlin Halverson]

Doesn't the Book of Mormon contradict the teachings of scripture?

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Is the Bible Complete?--Part 1


> Blainer)  I am saying the basic message of the BoM has not been changed.
> There may have been some changes, but none that change meanings of
> fundamental doctrines, such as baptism, the sacrament, what happens to
> one upon dying, the nature of God, the gifts of the spirit, etc.
> Come on Glenn, is that the best you can do in picky-picking?   Why don't
> we address the truth that the BoM was sent from God, and is binding on
> you and everyone in all generations since it was given?  What about that
> issue?  The testimonies of the twelve witnesses (Joseph Smith included)
> establishes that beyond reasonable doubt.
>
> On Sun, 27 Oct 2002 15:35:01 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > Blainer - Are you saying there have been no changes in the BoM except
> > when
> > the evolution of the English language made it necessary?
> >
> > > Blainer)  I Believe the current edition is good enough for all
> > practical
> > > purposes.  Most changes have been, as I understand, changes that
> > occurred
> > > shortly after the first printing, and have to do with punctuation
> > and the
> > > like.  I realize some other changes have been made, but I think
> > these
> > > have been to adjust for changes in meaning of words over time.
> > For
> > > instance, the word "white" once had the connotation of pure, and
> > so the
> > > word "pure" has been substituted for "white" in recent editions to
> > give a
> > > more accurate rendition of meaning.  I find no fault in this as
> > some
> > > hairsplitters do.
> > >
> > > On Sun, 27 Oct 2002 14:06:58 -0500 "Marlin Halverson"
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > > Which edition of the Book of Mormon do you believe is the true
> > > > edition?  It
> > > > is my understanding that there have been several revisions over
> > the
> > > > years.
> > >
> >
>
> --
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>
--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Is the Bible Complete?--Part 1

[Marlin Halverson]

Hello Dave,

It did not take me long to find one of many web sites devoted to the topic
of contradictions between the Book of Mormon and the Bible.
http://www.apologeticspress.org/bibbul/2002/bb-02-38.htm

This is not to put you, or anyone down.  We are talking about truth here.
I, for one, do not find that the Bible cantradicts itself, dispite those who
try to show that it does.  But I can find contradictions between the Bible
and the Book of Mormon.

Also, I do not know why this " ** SPAM * " appeared in the subject
line of Dave's responce to my question.

--Marlin

- Original Message -
From: "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: ** SPAM * Re: [TruthTalk] Is the Bible Complete?--Part
1


>
>
> Marlin Halverson wrote:
>
> > Doesn't the Book of Mormon contradict the teachings of scripture?
>
> DAVEH: How so?
>
> --
> ~~~
> Dave Hansen
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.langlitz.com
> ~~~
>
>
> --
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>
--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Sin & Christian Perfection

[Marlin Halverson]

Dear Ones,

Life is just too precious and short to get involved in attitudes.  It is
because some have not a love for the truth that they are given over to
strong delusion to believe a lie.  Let's love the truth.

I have encountered numerous ideas concerning the nature of God.  Oneness,
Duality, Trinity, Family that is growing, etc

I offer a link to the most definitive studies on the Nature of God that I
have seen:

http://www.cbcg.org/natureofgod.htm

If it is a blessing to you, then praise God.  If not, we'll all find out in
the wash anyway.

May God Bless you,

Marlin



- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Sin & Christian Perfection


> Blaqiner)  Yes
>
> Do you believe a.)  Jesus and his father have corporal bodies?  Or b.) do
> you believe they are just spirits?  Multiple choice--a or b?
>

--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Sin & Christian Perfection

[Marlin Halverson]

Dear David,

Another topic is the state of the dead, the resurrection, and the hereafter.
When I saw my words come back, I realized that it could convey a fear of
what comes after death.  I admit to some of that.  But I have hope in all
that I can understand in the Word of God on that topic.

As far as life being "too short," death has troubled my immediate family.
With all that we can understand about the hereafter, one thing is paramount.
God and his angels are involved, noting, and awaiting the outcome of all
that goes on here.  Reality is bigger than our senses can perceive, but this
is the focal point of creation.  We read that angels neither marry nor are
given in marriage, and that the dead are like them in this.  So procreation,
as we know it, is not going on in the hereafter.  But the creation of the
Sons of God is going on --as we may be joint heirs with Christ.  Thus we
have much privilege that those in the hereafter cannot participate in.

Oh how important it is that we train up our children in the way that they
should go, and be responsible for their guidance.  How important it is to
have loving families.  How important it is to love the widows and orphans,
with crippled families, and brethren who need love and support to draw
nearer to the truth and our loving maker.  We have work to do here and now.
When we go on, our work here is done.

I am sure that the next phase that our loving maker has for us is exciting
and much better in new and different ways.  But this is "where the fish are
biting;" this is where God's attention is focused.  What are we to do with
this precious time, in such weak, corruptible bodies, destined for the dust?

May God bless you, and all.

Love,

Marlin
- Original Message -
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Sin & Christian Perfection


> Marlin wrote:
> > Life is just too precious and short to get
> > involved in attitudes.  ...  Let's love the truth.
>
> What a beautiful statement.  We often fall way short of this on TruthTalk.
> Let's give heed to our newcomer here and try to embrace the truth and set
> aside our attitudes.  Amen?
>
> Peace be with you.
> David Miller.
>
> --
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>
--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of Lamar, a Net Friend

[Marlin Halverson]

Dear Brethren,

I hope the Lord can open some of your eyes regarding this hatred between
Jews and Arabs.  Sometimes we cannot see the real players because we are so
busy being the pawns and believing everything that is being dished out to us
by a controlled media.  These Arabs are descendents of Abraham too, and
eligible for salvation through Jesus.  The recent WTC incident is not all
that it appears to be on the surface.  YOU HAVE TO DIG FOR TRUTH.  I hope
you are sufficiently challenged by the questions listed at this web site to
dig deeper:

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_questions.htm

There are other motives at work in this conflict, not Godly motives.  Who
benefits?

Love,

Marlin

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 11:30 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of Lamar, a Net Friend


> Perfect, Dave.  I had to forward that one!!  Blainer
>
> On Sun, 27 Oct 2002 23:06:51 -0800 Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > WE WOULD RATHER DO BUSINESS WITH 1000 ARAB TERRORISTS THAN WITH A
> > SINGLE
> >
> > JEW
> > You may be asking what business would dare post such a sign?
> >
> > ..Goldberg's Funeral Home

--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of Lamar, a Net Friend

[Marlin Halverson]

Dear Izzy,

This is not about Jews and Arabs.  This is about whom we serve.  Bottom
Line:

"Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth
him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto
him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship
me.  Then saith Jesus unto him, {Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written,
Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.}"  Matt.
4:8-10

The devil has been around a lot longer than you or me, and is a master of
deceit.  Who benefits?  How many rights have the masses been willing to give
up for "security?"

Now, look at one of several tid bits given by our loving creator for those
who have ears to hear and eyes to see.  With the heightened "security" we
are closer than ever before to this:

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to
receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:  And that no man
might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or
the number of his name.  Here is wisdom.  Let him that hath understanding
count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number
[is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.  Rev. 13:16-18

Some people will be glad to have the mark because they will want the
benefits.

The one who orchestrates such tragedies has pawns at many levels; The pawns
all answer to the author of all the hatred, the murderer from the beginning.
We need to answer to the Author of all love, the giver of life from the
beginning.

Love,

Marlin

- Original Message -
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 5:15 PM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of Lamar, a Net Friend


> Excuse me, but the questions on that website were a bit overwhelming.
> Why don't you cut the trivial pursuit and tell us what's the bottom
> line? Are you saying the Arabs have a right to hate the Jews? Are you
> saying the Arabs are innocent in the WTC attack?
>
> Izzy
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:TruthTalk-owner@;mail.innglory.org] On Behalf Of Marlin Halverson
> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 12:32 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of Lamar, a Net Friend
>
> Dear Brethren,
>
> I hope the Lord can open some of your eyes regarding this hatred between
> Jews and Arabs.  Sometimes we cannot see the real players because we are
> so
> busy being the pawns and believing everything that is being dished out
> to us
> by a controlled media.  These Arabs are descendents of Abraham too, and
> eligible for salvation through Jesus.  The recent WTC incident is not
> all
> that it appears to be on the surface.  YOU HAVE TO DIG FOR TRUTH.  I
> hope
> you are sufficiently challenged by the questions listed at this web site
> to
> dig deeper:
>
> http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_questions.htm
>
> There are other motives at work in this conflict, not Godly motives.
> Who
> benefits?
>
> Love,
>
> Marlin
>
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 11:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of Lamar, a Net Friend
>
>
> > Perfect, Dave.  I had to forward that one!!  Blainer
> >
> > On Sun, 27 Oct 2002 23:06:51 -0800 Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > >
> > > WE WOULD RATHER DO BUSINESS WITH 1000 ARAB TERRORISTS THAN WITH A
> > > SINGLE
> > >
> > > JEW
> > > You may be asking what business would dare post such a sign?
> > >
> > > ..Goldberg's Funeral Home
>
> --
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
> know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
> http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
> friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>
>
>
> --
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>
--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who 
wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be 
subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] God/angel/man

[Marlin Halverson]

Dear Ones,
 
With all bickering aside, the 
Bible, Genesis to Revelation, is what I rely upon.  The Apocrypha adds 
historical insight.  The Lord has not led me to trust claims of additional 
revelation.  Usually, supporters of such writings say that there is no 
contradiction with the Bible, but I have not found this to be so.  I prefer 
to reference the Bible, which is at least common ground to those who make claims 
to extra-biblical inspiration.
 
In the Bible, I have been noticing scriptures that do not 
line up with any particular faith or creed or group's doctrine.  I am just 
trying to understand them.  Much of the difficulty has to do with 
semantics, and language.  Other difficulties arise from the infusion 
of the world's religions and philosophy into this thing called 
"Christianity."  It is hard to rally under the banner of a title, first 
attributed to the followers of Jesus by outsiders in Antioch, when there are 
thousands of ideas that are attributed to that title.  
 
Here are a few interesting findings:
 
The word for angel means messenger and is used 
to refer to John the Baptist.  Thus it can refer to men in the flesh, 
as well as supernatural beings that serve God.  
 
When the Septuagint is quoted in the new Testament by its 
writers, the word for the plural Hebrew word God, Elohim, is 
translated "angels."  
 
The word archangel is always used with the definite 
article "the," and is always singular, referring to Michael.  In most 
references to Michael, whose name means "he who is like God," the same can be 
applied to the works of the being who became Jesus Christ.  He could 
be referred to as the arch messenger, since He is the Word.  The one part 
that does not seem to fit is where Michael contends for the body of Moses, 
unless it was a jurisdictional matter rather than a matter of 
might.
 
DNL 8:16    And I heard a man's voice 
between [the banks of] Ulai, 
which    
called, and said, Gabriel, make this [man] to understand 
the    
vision.DNL 9:21    Yea, whiles I [was] speaking in prayer, 
even the man Gabriel, 
whom    I had 
seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to 
fly    
swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.LUK 
1:19    And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that 
stand in    
the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to 
shew    thee 
these glad tidings.
"But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one 
andtwenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came tohelp 
me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia" 
(Daniel10:13).
 
"But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture 
oftruth: and [there is] none that holdeth with me in these things,but 
Michael your prince" (Daniel 10:21).
 
"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince 
whichstandeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be atime 
of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation[even] to that same 
time: and at that time thy people shall bedelivered, every one that shall be 
found written in the book"(Daniel 12:1).
 
In addition to being called the Son of 
God, Jesus is called the Son of Man, descended from Adam, the son of 
God.  Men are called the sons of God, and sons of men.
 
Although many times when an angel appears he looks 
like a man, and I have never noticed where one looked like a woman, there are 
definitely some weird creatures with many wings and many eyes, called Cherubim, 
a plural word.
 
There are "fellow servants" in the vision of John, in 
Revelations, whom he tried to bow before.
 
Fallen angels, called demons or devils, were everywhere 
during the time Jesus walked the earth, yet, except for some "Pentecostal," 
or Charismatic flavors of Christians, these are not acknowledged nor 
discerned much today.
 
Aside from these crossover uses of terms, I do believe 
that there is a domain of spirit beings that is composed of angels.  
Humans in the after life are compared to them in Mark 12, where it is said that 
we will neither marry nor be given in marriage, like the angels.  I see 
nowhere in the Bible that anyone is transformed from that domain of beings 
into the domain of sons of men or sons of God, or vise 
versa. 
 
Comments?
 
Marlin

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 9:42 
  PM
  Subject: Re: ** SPAM * Re: 
  [TruthTalk] Is the Bible Complete?--Part 1
  In a message dated 
  10/29/2002 12:12:18 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  DAVEH:  Though Jesus was 'God" prior to being exalted, he 
became exalted after he was resurrected and returned to his Father in 
Heaven. I am so confused    If Jesus was an 
  angel then how could he be God???  Laura 

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of Lamar, a Net Friend

[Marlin Halverson]

Dear Izzy,

I assume that this forum is based upon some sense of God ruling the
universe, and what he reveals, and what we seek.

Human conflict must be viewed through spiritual discernment.  Even those who
do not have this faculty exercised and strong may use the lists in Gal. 5 as
a guide to identify the motives of men.  The carnal intellect alone can do
that with these lists, but tuning in to the Holy Spirit is a more excellent
way.

Lies have a purpose.  The purpose is to serve the one originating the lies.
Duly manipulated, purveyors of the lies either blindly or knowingly
perpetuate the lies to the same end.  I have seen lies showered over
martyrs.  But the martyrs, a Greek word that means witnesses, must always
hold to the truth.  This takes discernment and effort.

There is the truth of an attitude and spirit behind such jesting.  The
attitude is based upon superficial understanding of the evidence.  Such
understanding is judgment.  But we must have righteous judgment, or judge
not at all, that we be not judged.  Put the evidence on trial.  This takes
diligence and work.  Without diligence and work, truth will not be
appreciated.

Again, ask who benefits?  Who benefits from the conflicts?  Who serves that
power?

With Love,

Marlin

P.S.

"And why didn't you answer my questions?"

I am not your lord that I should be telling you what to think.  The only
answers that matter to you are the ones that you are at liberty to see.
What matters is what your Lord reveals to you.  The more you see, the more
sorrow you will have.  The more you see, the more you will be judged.  Jesus
did not always give a straight answer to explain what He could see.  There
were reasons for this.

- Original Message -
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 8:54 AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of Lamar, a Net Friend


> That's funny; your website was all about Jews and Arabs, etc. -- nothing
> about "whom we serve". So why the discrepancy? And why didn't you answer
> my questions? Izzy
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:TruthTalk-owner@;mail.innglory.org] On Behalf Of Marlin Halverson
> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 7:00 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of Lamar, a Net Friend
>
> Dear Izzy,
>
> This is not about Jews and Arabs.  This is about whom we serve.  Bottom
> Line:
>
>
>
>
> --
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>
--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who 
wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be 
subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of Lamar, a Net Friend

[Marlin Halverson]

Dear Dave,

I do not know whether the deceitful manipulator has a preference for the
race or politics of the "peacemaker" who shall appear as an angel of light.
He may even be an equal opportunity employer.

He will think to change some things, if you recall.  Much has already been
accomplished.

Love,

Marlin


- Original Message -
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of Lamar, a Net Friend


> Marlin wrote:
> > With the heightened "security" we are closer than
> > ever before to this:
> >
> > And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor,
> > free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or
> > in their foreheads:  And that no man might buy or sell,
> > save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or
> > the number of his name.  Here is wisdom.  Let him that
> > hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it
> > is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred
> > threescore [and] six.  Rev. 13:16-18
> >
> > Some people will be glad to have the mark because
> > they will want the benefits.
> >
> > The one who orchestrates such tragedies has pawns
> > at many levels; The pawns all answer to the author
> > of all the hatred, the murderer from the beginning.
> > We need to answer to the Author of all love, the
> > giver of life from the beginning.
>
> You make an important point that there is a bigger picture to all of what
> has happened.  This is not just about some Jewish / Arab / American
> conflict.  Nevertheless, you are not saying what you really think.  Your
> speech is veiled.
>
> You mention a man in Rev. 13 quoted above.  In your opinion, will this man
> be:
>
> 1.  A Jewish "peacemaker"
>
> 2.  A Muslim "peacemaker"
>
> 3.  An American "peacemaker"
>
> I put peacemaker in quotes because he is actually a destroyer, but he
> represents himself as a peacemaker.  If I had to guess, I think you would
> pick 3, but I personally think it will be 2.  Am I reading between your
> lines correctly?  :-)
>
> Peace be with you.
> David Miller.
>
> --
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org
>
> If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
>
--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who 
wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be 
subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of Lamar, a Net Friend

[Marlin Halverson]

Dear Izzy,

Jesus spoke of him.  John 8:44
It is not popular to believe Jesus.
In fact, a lot of people were upset with Him.
I only know what my Lord and Savior tells me.

EPH 6:12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against
principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the
darkness
of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].

Love,

Marlin

- Original Message -
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 5:57 PM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of Lamar, a Net Friend


> Marlin,
>
> So who's jesting? I'm a plain spoken gal, if you haven't noticed. When
> I'm jesting I think I make that quite clear.
>
> I am personally suspicious of anyone who accuses others of being liars
> and manipulators. My first impulse is to want facts; not innuendos. My
> experience is that there are usually three fingers pointing back at the
> person doing the pointing. (Someone I know to be extremely honest and
> full of integrity has been smeared for years as a "liar and manipulator"
> by two people with morality on the level of pond scum.) You can't even
> be up front about who you are pointing at. If you wish to be clear about
> whom you are accusing of what, we might come to some useful dialogue
> here. Walk in the light of factual truth; not in the shadows of
> innuendo.
>
> "Let your Yes be Yes, and your No be No. Anything beyond than that comes
> from the evil one."
>
> Izzy
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:TruthTalk-owner@;mail.innglory.org] On Behalf Of Marlin Halverson
> Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 1:12 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of Lamar, a Net Friend
>
> Dear Izzy,
>
> I assume that this forum is based upon some sense of God ruling the
> universe, and what he reveals, and what we seek.
>
> Human conflict must be viewed through spiritual discernment.  Even those
> who
> do not have this faculty exercised and strong may use the lists in Gal.
> 5 as
> a guide to identify the motives of men.  The carnal intellect alone can
> do
> that with these lists, but tuning in to the Holy Spirit is a more
> excellent
> way.
>
> Lies have a purpose.  The purpose is to serve the one originating the
> lies.
> Duly manipulated, purveyors of the lies either blindly or knowingly
> perpetuate the lies to the same end.  I have seen lies showered over
> martyrs.  But the martyrs, a Greek word that means witnesses, must
> always
> hold to the truth.  This takes discernment and effort.
>
> There is the truth of an attitude and spirit behind such jesting.  The
> attitude is based upon superficial understanding of the evidence.  Such
> understanding is judgment.  But we must have righteous judgment, or
> judge
> not at all, that we be not judged.  Put the evidence on trial.  This
> takes
> diligence and work.  Without diligence and work, truth will not be
> appreciated.
>
> Again, ask who benefits?  Who benefits from the conflicts?  Who serves
> that
> power?
>
> With Love,
>
> Marlin
>
> P.S.
>
> "And why didn't you answer my questions?"
>
> I am not your lord that I should be telling you what to think.  The only
> answers that matter to you are the ones that you are at liberty to see.
> What matters is what your Lord reveals to you.  The more you see, the
> more
> sorrow you will have.  The more you see, the more you will be judged.
> Jesus
> did not always give a straight answer to explain what He could see.
> There
> were reasons for this.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 8:54 AM
> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of Lamar, a Net Friend
>
>
> > That's funny; your website was all about Jews and Arabs, etc. --
> nothing
> > about "whom we serve". So why the discrepancy? And why didn't you
> answer
> > my questions? Izzy
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:TruthTalk-owner@;mail.innglory.org] On Behalf Of Marlin
> Halverson
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 7:00 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of Lamar, a Net Friend
> >
> > Dear Izzy,
> >
> > This is not about Jews and Arabs.  This is about whom we serve.
> Bottom
> > Line:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with s

Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of Lamar, a Net Friend

[Marlin Halverson]

> "Which things also we speak, NOT IN THE WORDS WHICH MAN'S WISDOM TEACHETH,
> but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with
> spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of
> God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because
> they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all
things,
> yet he himself is judged of no man."  (1Cor. 2:13-15)

Thanks Dave,

Thanks for seeing.

We as humans are blind to so much.  What a blessing to call upon our maker
for Wisdom, Knowledge, Understanding, and the gift of eternal life.

I tell you plainly, if it were not for the Holy Spirit and all of its
attributes, I'd rather be dead.  I would not want to live in a world based
upon lies and hatred and the fruits of the flesh.

Love,

Marlin
--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who 
wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be 
subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Hey Marlin!

[Marlin Halverson]

Dear Izzy,

In answer to your questions, I believe this:  1JO 2:18Little children,
it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even
now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

The verses setting the context for the above reference are sobering.  The
other references show that there is no singular being called "the
antichrist."  What is antichrist is characterized as a type of spirit.  This
spirit becomes manifested by those who go out from among those who are
pro-Christ!  (1JO 2:19)  We find that "the" antichrist is from among us in
the form of a type of spirit.

This hits home.

Other identifiers may be found below:

1JO 2:22Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He
is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1JO 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come
in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof
ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2JO 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not
that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an
antichrist.

Love,

Marlin

- Original Message -
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 9:03 AM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Hey Marlin!


> Hey, Marlin:
>
> Do you believe the anti-christ is at work on the earth today? (I
> wouldn't doubt it!) If so, can you give us a hint who you think it is?
> Do you think the mark of the beast will be implanted computer chips,
> like we put in our pets? I've been wondering about all of this...
>
> Izzy
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:TruthTalk-owner@;mail.innglory.org] On Behalf Of Marlin Halverson
> Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 1:21 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of Lamar, a Net Friend
>
> Dear Dave,
>
> I do not know whether the deceitful manipulator has a preference for the
> race or politics of the "peacemaker" who shall appear as an angel of
> light.
> He may even be an equal opportunity employer.
>
> He will think to change some things, if you recall.  Much has already
> been
> accomplished.
>
> Love,
>
> Marlin
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 9:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of Lamar, a Net Friend
>
>
> > Marlin wrote:
> > > With the heightened "security" we are closer than
> > > ever before to this:
> > >
> > > And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor,
> > > free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or
> > > in their foreheads:  And that no man might buy or sell,
> > > save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or
> > > the number of his name.  Here is wisdom.  Let him that
> > > hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it
> > > is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred
> > > threescore [and] six.  Rev. 13:16-18
> > >
> > > Some people will be glad to have the mark because
> > > they will want the benefits.
> > >
> > > The one who orchestrates such tragedies has pawns
> > > at many levels; The pawns all answer to the author
> > > of all the hatred, the murderer from the beginning.
> > > We need to answer to the Author of all love, the
> > > giver of life from the beginning.
> >
> > You make an important point that there is a bigger picture to all of
> what
> > has happened.  This is not just about some Jewish / Arab / American
> > conflict.  Nevertheless, you are not saying what you really think.
> Your
> > speech is veiled.
> >
> > You mention a man in Rev. 13 quoted above.  In your opinion, will this
> man
> > be:
> >
> > 1.  A Jewish "peacemaker"
> >
> > 2.  A Muslim "peacemaker"
> >
> > 3.  An American "peacemaker"
> >
> > I put peacemaker in quotes because he is actually a destroyer, but he
> > represents himself as a peacemaker.  If I had to guess, I think you
> would
> > pick 3, but I personally think it will be 2.  Am I reading between
> your
> > lines correctly?  :-)
> >
> > Peace be with you.
> > David Miller.
> >
> > --
> > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you
> may
> know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6)
> http://www.InnG

Re: [TruthTalk] mark of the beast

[Marlin Halverson]

"Do you think the mark of the beast will be implanted computer chips,
like we put in our pets? I've been wondering about all of this..."

 Izzy

Dear Izzy,

That is only one of many aspects of this thing.  The devil likes to mark his
stuff.  Do a web-search on 666.  You will see that everything is already in
place while we sleep.

Love,

Marlin

http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint/page6/fp-ssnfaq.htm
Another clause within 42 U.S. Code section 666(a) (as most recently amended
by the Balanced Budget Act of 1997) requires that states must have in place:

  "(16) Procedures under which the State has (and uses in appropriate cases)
authority to withhold or suspend, or to restrict the use of driver's
licenses, professional and occupational licenses, and recreational licenses
of individuals owing overdue support or failing... to comply with subpoenas
or warrants relating to paternity or child support proceedings."
In order to locate individuals and suspend their licenses, states will
typically "key" on social security numbers (since Child Support Enforcement
agencies use SSNs in the administration of their payment program).
Section 666 also requires that states must have provisions in place which
allow the state's Child Support Enforcement Agency to attach an individual's
financial holdings. This also is accomplished using an individual's social
security number.

Even private utilities such as, electric, cable television, and phone
service providers must make customer records and information available to
each state's Child Support Enforcement agency. This information will be
accessed using a customer's SSN if they have one on file.

Social Security is Global

As a consequence of various international treaties, every industrialized
nation has instituted a national "social security" program. Under the GATT
agreements, every signatory country is required to "register" (number) all
child at birth. Presently, over 170 countries currently have a social
security system in place. The list includes every major country in the
world.

In terms of population, the world's 10 largest countries which have a social
security system are:

 1. China 1,210,000,000
 2. India   968,000,000
 3. United States   268,000,000
 4. Indonesia   210,000,000
 5. Brazil  165,000,000
 6. Russia  148,000,000
 7. Pakistan132,000,000
 8. Japan   126,000,000
 9. Bangladesh  125,000,000
10. Nigeria 107,000,000

Followed by the next 15 largest countries: Germany, Mexico, Italy, France,
Philippines, Turkey, Thailand, Egypt, Spain, South Korea, Poland, Iran,
Burma, El Salvador, and Ethiopia, each with a population of between 30 and
80 million people.

The complete list of Countries with existing Social Security programs
includes:

Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Andorra, Antigua-Barbuda, Argentina, Armenia,
Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan,
Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belarus, Belgium, Belize, Benin,
Bermuda, Bolivia, Botswana, Brazil, British Virgin Islands, Bulgaria,
Burkina Faso, Burma (Myanmar), Burundi, Cameroon, Canada, Cape Verde,
Central African Republic, Chad, Chile, China, Colombia, Congo (Brazzaville),
Congo (Kinshasa), Costa Rica, Cote d'Ivoire, Croatia, Cuba, Cyprus, Czech
Republic, Denmark, Dominica, Dominican Republic,
Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Equatorial Guinea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Fiji,
Finland, France, Gabon, Gambia, Georgia, Germany, Ghana, Greece, Grenada,
Guatemala, Guernsey, Guinea, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Hong Kong, Hungary,
Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Jamaica,
Japan, Jersey, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kiribati, Korea-South, Kuwait,
Kyrgystan, Latvia, Lebanon, Liberia, Libya, Liechtenstein, Lithuania,
Luxembourg, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Mali, Malta, Marshall Islands,
Mauritania, Mauritius,
Mexico, Micronesia, Federated States of Moldova, Monaco, Morocco, Nepal,
Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Niger, Nigeria, Norway, Oman, Pakistan,
Palau, Panama, Papua, New Guinea, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland,
Portugal, Romania, Russia, Rwanda, Saint Kitts & Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint
Vincent and the Grenadines, San Marino, Sao Tome and Principe, Saudi Arabia,
Senegal, Serbia and Montenegro, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore,
Slovakia, Slovenia, Solomon Islands, Somalia, South Africa, Spain, Sri
Lanka, Sudan, Swaziland, Sweden, Switzerland, Syria, Taiwan, Tanzania,
Thailand, Togo, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Uganda,
Ukraine, United Kingdom, United States, Uruguay, Uzbekistan, Vanuatu,
Venezuela, Vietnam, Western Samoa, Yemen, Zambia, and Zimbabwe

[http://www.ssa.gov/statistics/ssptw97.html]

--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not 

Re: [TruthTalk] Hey Marlin!

[Marlin Halverson]

"So, Marlin, do you think that ALL unbelievers are anti-christs? Or just
some particular group(s)?"

> Izzy

Dear Izzy,

Neither.  Jesus measures them by their fruit:

{Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.  Not every one that saith
unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that
doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.  Many will say to me in that
day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have
cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that
work iniquity.  Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth
them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat
upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.  And every
one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened
unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain
descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that
house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.}  And it came to pass,
when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his
doctrine: MAT 7:20-28

Love,

Marlin


--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who 
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Re: [TruthTalk] The New Jesus and a Love Called Tolerance

[Marlin Halverson]

"It wasn't to stop legalism..."
 
Dear G,
 
 What would you consider to be "legalism?"  Does 
the term apply to man's made up rules and laws, or is it a term used by 
religions to mark  those who love God's law?
 
Much of what plagues "Christianity" today has been brought 
upon itself by itself.  On the one hand there is the "mystery of iniquity" 
at work, which means lawlessness, a rejection of God's laws.  On the other 
hand, to fill the void, religious groups make up their own laws which are at 
variance with the laws of God found in the scriptures.  This causes 
division in the body of Christ.
 
--Marlin

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 8:20 
  AM
  Subject: [TruthTalk] The New Jesus and a 
  Love Called Tolerance
  The New Jesus and a 
  Love Called Tolerance    by Paul 
  Proctor    Have you heard? There's a new Jesus in town 
  and he brings with him a NEW gospel message. It is a message that teaches a 
  permissive kind of love...a love called "tolerance"...a love that hears no 
  evil, sees no evil and frankly never brings evil up for discussion lest the 
  offenders become the offended. Discussing the evil in our world, that is the 
  sinful nature of man, is a risky venture nowadays, especially for any 
  Christian or church seeking to be loved and accepted BY that world. But then 
  that's not really the great commission, is it...that you and I go out into the 
  world and seek its love and acceptance in the name of Jesus? No, the bible 
  assures us that because of Christ the world will hate 
  us.    John 15:19 says: "If ye were of the world, the 
  world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have 
  chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth 
  you."    We cannot pursue both the love and acceptance 
  of the world and be the "living sacrifice" God calls us to be. That's two 
  entirely different agendas. If we try to carry out both simultaneously the two 
  will eventually conflict forcing us to choose between them. Today's 
  seeker-sensitive church growth movement is, in my estimation, the unfortunate 
  result of such choices. A healthy church simply preaches repentance and faith 
  in Christ and trusts God for the outcome.    "And He 
  said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every 
  creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that 
  believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15)    You see 
  the great commission involves a good news/bad news kind of message. To preach 
  repentance we have to make perfectly clear what it is God expects man to 
  repent of. We can no longer assume that the lost know they are sinners, 
  especially among today's adolescents who are growing up in an increasingly 
  scripture-free environment. Yet, more often than not, that is exactly what we 
  do. We forget that today's young are coming of age in a much different world 
  than most of us did...a country where biblical instruction like the Ten 
  Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount have been strategically replaced with 
  a multicultural value system. Multiculturalism basically means almost anything 
  and everything is permissible.    So, how can one 
  repent of sin if he or she is never taught what sin is? This is the bad news 
  part of the message we are called to proclaim and more often than not what 
  makes being a faithful witness for Christ in this day and time such a 
  challenge. After all, there's really nothing that dangerous or difficult about 
  telling someone "Jesus loves you", especially if you're talking about the NEW 
  Jesus. But, those who endeavor faithfully to present the bad news concerning 
  "the wages of sin", as well as the good news about "The Way the Truth and the 
  Life", will likely be marked and marginalized as narrow-minded extremists who 
  "promote negativity" and intolerance.    Unfortunately, 
  these accusations come not just from secular society but from those who 
  embrace the new Jesus and preach the gospel of tolerance. This, I believe is 
  why the church is in such a decline today, because we don't want our 
  relationships, our reputations and our rosters to suffer over an ugly little 
  three letter word called "sin", even for the cause of 
  Christ.    Unfortunately, without the bad news the good 
  news has little or no effect. That is the primary reason for the Law and the 
  prophets and men like John the Baptist who preceded our Lord's coming with 
  stern and intolerant warnings like, "Repent ye, for the kingdom of God is at 
  hand!"    Those warnings and commandments from God were 
  given to prepare a lost world to receive the Lamb of God and must continue to 
  prepare His way in our sermons, our Sunday schools, our bible studies and our 
  personal witnessing so that the Good News of God's forgiveness in Christ Jesus 
  will be recognized for the Amazing Grace

Re: [TruthTalk] Liberty at Risk

[Marlin Halverson]

Dear G,

Maybe you can handle this:

http://www.radioliberty.com/pca.htm

It is interesting to note that our leaders who seek to reduce the Earth's
population, to kill us, use statistics that match Bible prophecy projections
of 10% survival through the tribulation, according to some conclusions.

--Marlin

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 5:39 PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Liberty at Risk


> In the words of Benjamin Franklin "Those who give up essential liberty to
> obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
>
> Liberty at Risk

--
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
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Re: [TruthTalk] The elections

[Marlin Halverson]




Dear G,
 
There is an election for which I praise 
Jesus:
 
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make 
your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting 
kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:10-11
 
--Marlin

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 6:21 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The New Jesus 
  and a Love Called Tolerance
  Izzy, 
  please give Bible for your "praising Jesus" position. 
  Good question, Marlin.  If “legalism” refers to loving 
God’s laws, then I am guilty!!!Hey, is anyone else here HAPPY about the way the 
elections turned out? I am PRAISING JESUS!!! May this be the beginning of 
better things in America!Izzy

Re: [TruthTalk] The elections

[Marlin Halverson]

There are no connecting dots between the 
republicrats/democrans, and our true King.
 
--Marln

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 8:50 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The 
  elections
  I 
  still fail to connect the dots between Republicans and 1 Peter 1:10-11.  
  Do Repubs get to heaven quicker than Demos?  
  Dear G,There is an election for which I praise 
Jesus:Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your 
calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the 
everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 
  1:10-11

Re: [TruthTalk] The elections

[Marlin Halverson]

http://members.aol.com/kenhoeck/NwsClpz/11/0902.html 

Above is a link 
to an interesting newsletter called NEWSCLIPS/Truth on the Web. Excerpts 
below:
- 
Bush Celebrates Ramadan Break-Fast 
50 representatives from Muslim nations and 24 American Muslim leaders met 
with US President Bush on Thursday to celebrate a Ramadan meal which breaks the 
daily fast. .
Homosexual lobby Powerful in 
DC The Family Research Council published a brief that focused on 
a certain member of  Congress ..
'Santa' Murders 
Daughter A 65-year-old Warren, Michigan man was arrested 
Wednesday on murder charges. Frederick Kaercher, who regularly dressed as Santa 
Claus for the city's annual Thanksgiving parade and appearances at various 
municpial offices, was charged with stabbing his daughter to death 
...
Tis the season I guess ... 
well, provides a good lead-in for links to our Truth On Christmas Series "The 
X-Mas Files" The X-Mas Files 
Vol 1 
 [The Truth On Christmas 1] 
  http://members.aol.com/KHoeck777/NwsClpz/xmasvol1.html The X-Mas Files 
Vol 2 
 [The Truth On Christmas 2] 
  http://members.aol.com/KHoeck777/NwsClpz/xmasvol2.html The X-Mas Files 
Vol 3 
 [The Truth On Christmas 3] 
  http://members.aol.com/KHoeck777/NwsClpz/xmasvol3.html   
The 
X-Mas Files Vol 4  [The Truth On Christmas 4] 
  http://members.aol.com/KHoeck777/NwsClpz/xmasvol4.html The X-Mas Files 
Vol 5  [The Truth On Christmas 5] 
  http://members.aol.com/KHoeck777/NwsClpz/xmasvol5.html 

--Marlin