Firstly, I will try to respond to questions and comments about ethanol / my KR
build as soon as I can. The upcoming events and work load my company is seeing
may take up a large portion of my "free" time. Thank y'all for being patient.
Something I might need to add: I noticed someone mention
Thanks,good additionial data points!Regards,Bill
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Gibson Racing Group via KRnet wrote: Hey, guys.? I usually just lurk, absorb the (often
extremely) useful information I run across here, and take the rest with a grain
of
Hey, guys. I usually just lurk, absorb the (often extremely) useful
information I run across here, and take the rest with a grain of salt. I was
also on vacation so might have missed part of this conversation, However,
having spent a great deal of time with methanol/ethanol in racing, I
Andrew,
Appreciate you sharing your insights and research results, and I have a couple
of questions that I'm genuinely interested in the answers to:
I read through your information and am wondering about this statement you made:
"We slosh anodized our Cessna tanks..."
I'm not aware that it is
A quick and easy to test for alcohol in fuel is to use a clear water
or soda bottle. Put approx one inch of water in an empty bottle and
mark the level with a felt tip pen. Fill remainder of bottle with
gas to be tested and shake for 5 seconds or so. Allow to set for a
minute or two and,
Turbochargers and/or Superchargers love the way the input temps drop on
ethanol. Granted the milage is only 1/4 mile at a time. Most dedicated drag
cars that run very high boost shy away from gasoline as you dont need to cool
inlet temps artificially with water injection in the air
Andrew,The information that you provided is sincerely appreciated. People
may have different opinions. BUT you cannot argue with the that much solid
data.Thanks again.
Bill Jacobs
-- Original message--From: Andrew Sugg via KRnet Date: Mon, Jun 6, 2016
1:17 PMTo: krnet at
On the subject of ethanol-free gasoline, be careful where you buy it. I
don't recommend "no-name" independent gas stations...those with names
that you've never seen or are very small chains that sell really cheap
gas, and for good reason.
Where I live, about 5 years ago almost all of the
as to whether or not you want to try it.
Ron
On Mon, 6/6/16, Mike Stirewalt via KRnet wrote:
Subject: KR> Ethanol
To: krnet at list.krnet.org
Cc: laser147 at juno.com
Date: Monday, June 6, 2016, 1:52 PM
I had an old Cadillac with a compu
Mark W.
N952MW (res)
>Tony King wrote.
>-Original Message-
>From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Tony King
>via KRnet
>Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 10:29 PM
>To: KRnet
>Cc: Tony King
>Subject: Re: KR> Ethan
/2016 3:19 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: KRnet
Cc: Ronald Wright
Subject: Re: KR> Ethanol
It is a simple matter to separate the ethanol out of the gas.? They recommend
using Premium fuel due to a drop in octane when taking the ethanol out.? Get a
clear tank, add ethanol fuel, dump in water and wa
Tony
- Even full aircraft can be modified for ethanol use. Our fleet was donated or
purchased aicraft. We simply pull what components we needed and anodized the
alluminum, and replaced natural rubber with teflon.
- The water issue is another reason we did the test. Ethanol is moonshine, and
at list.krnet.org Cc: Pete Klapp Subject: Re: KR> Ethanol
Ron
Ethanol free fuel is also available at many marinas, at least here in Ohio.
Pete Klapp, building KR-2S N729PK,
Canton, Ohio
> Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 19:19:39 +
> To: krnet at list.krnet.org
> Subject: Re: KR> Ethano
Ron
Ethanol free fuel is also available at many marinas, at least here in Ohio.
Pete Klapp, building KR-2S N729PK,
Canton, Ohio
> Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 19:19:39 +
> To: krnet at list.krnet.org
> Subject: Re: KR> Ethanol
> From: krnet at list.krnet.org
> CC: ronwr
STCs are still valid.
Original Message
Subject: KR> Ethanol
From: Mike Stirewalt via KRnet
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Mon, June 06, 2016 11:52 am
To: krnet at list.krnet.org
Cc: laser147 at juno.com
I had an old Cadillac with a computer display that would read out
Of andrew via
KRnet
Sent: Monday, 6 June 2016 1:07 PM
To: krnet at list.krnet.org
Cc: andrew
Subject: KR> Ethanol
Here goes the spoon feed ?Don?t use it?.
As I?m working on blue prints for the KRSuper1, and getting my outside
research done. I am settled on one huge taboo of the aviat
The two primary objections to ethanol seem to be corrosion/degradatiion of
fuel system components and its tendency to absorb water. As you've pointed
out, the corrosion can be dealt with at design stage quite readily - just
specify appropriate materials.
The water issue doesn't seem so
*What about high altitude flying in the winter *time??
I have gone to 100LL in the winter because of accational carb icing. ?Would the
moisture absorbed by ethanol fuel contribute to carb icing?
Joe Nunley?CW2 US Army RetiredBaker JROTC Instructor?Baker Florida?
What about high altitude flying in the winter time? Sense ethanol will hold
moisture how do you prevent freezing? Sounds like you all have done a lot of
research just ask.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 6, 2016, at 2:27 AM, billjacobs386 at yahoo.com via KRnet list.krnet.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
I had an old Cadillac with a computer display that would read out my
real-time fuel consumption. I imagine most cars have such things these
days, althoiugh the Oldsmobile that I replaced my beloved Cadillac with
doesn't. Whenever I would drive cross country and got into the mid-west
where
Probably the same reason most auto oriented stay away. Availability. I
agree with everything you said. Fuel consumption increases slightly to
compensate for power density. Some of the fastest cars on the planet run it and
i would set up for it too. If i could RELIABLY find it.My 2C
my FIRST thought upon reading that (besides how interesting it is) is what does
this mean for E90 from the local Shell station because, economically, thats the
cheapest to run. I then think of "vapor lock" which seems to be the primary
concern, followed by water absorption and corrosion.
I am
Here goes the spoon feed ?Don?t use it?.
As I?m working on blue prints for the KRSuper1, and getting my outside
research done. I am settled on one huge taboo of the aviation community. This
bad boy is going to be tuned and built to run primarily on ethanol.
?But Cessna and the big aviation
Build your own design and call it something else.
Steve Glover
Sent from my electronic leash.
> On Jun 5, 2016, at 20:06, andrew via KRnet wrote:
>
> Here goes the spoon feed ?Don?t use it?.
>
> As I?m working on blue prints for the KRSuper1, and getting my outside
> research done. I am
We now have 90UL Avgas which is cleared for use on most engines like
Lycomings in the UK.
It is 20% cheaper than 100LL and our fuel costs are way higher than in the
US.
I have been running it in by PA28 140 for about a year with no ill effects.
Peter Drake
UK
"It will be a great day when
There are many stories just like this one. What is that old saying, "pay me
now, or pay me later"? Well, flying is expensive. It took me a long time
to come to the conclusion that if I wanted to fly, I was going to have to
pay at one end or the other. So, I choose to have the convenience of
I replaced the fiberglass wing tanks in my KR-2 with welded aluminum tanks.
Ethanol in the mogas, that I was trying to use, was dissolving the Vinyl
Ester resin rather quickly. Rubber components in the carb were being
hardened and would not seal. (Lots of fun and excitement when the carb
Pure gasoline should be good with glass & plastic tanks...
Ethanol degrades certain rubber-ish compounds & the interior of some
varieties of fuel-lines... The 'mush-ifying' of fuel-tanks has been a
problem for fiberglass boats, too...
So even without glass tanks... 'Keep the booze in your
packed in
the carb inlet.
The Cherokee 235 had the tip tanks softened to the point where they were
deforming from the air pressures in flight. ?
-Jeff Scott
> - Original Message -
> From: Dj Merrill
> Sent: 08/03/13 09:45 PM
> To: KRnet
> Subject: Re: KR> etha
On Aug 3, 2013, at 11:37 PM, "Jeff Scott" wrote:
>
> I have seen disastrous results from using alcohol contaminated fuel in glass
> tanks. One was thousands of $$ damage to the fuel system of a Cherokee 235
> and the other totaled the plane (a Grumman Cheetah), so be sure to test your
>
This last winter the cost of 100LL finally hit my pain threshhold when I
realized I had burned $7000 in 100LL during 2012. ?With a $2 per gallon
difference, burning Mogas will make a significant impact over the course of a
year. ?In February I dragged my old 100 gallon tank out of storage,
NetHeads,
For those who'd rather burn ethanol-free fuel, there's a website that lists
most known vendors in the US and Canada at http://www.pure-gas.org/ . They
also have free iPhone and Android apps that will guide you to a nearby station,
along with pertinent info such as octane ratings.
:20 AM
To: corvaircr...@mylist.net; kr...@mylist.net
Subject: KR> ethanol
Hey Guys,I don't usually foreword stuff but this petition looks real
enough to me concerning the future introduction of ethanol into the fuel
supplies. I signed it and gave reason .Joe Horton
http://www.thepetitionsite.
Hey Guys,I don't usually foreword stuff but this petition looks real enough
to me concerning the future introduction of ethanol into the fuel supplies. I
signed it and gave reason .Joe Horton
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/keep-pure-gas/
ovember 30, 2009 6:01 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> ethanol and the Ellison
Precautions>>>>
http://www.fuel-testers.com/ethanol_engine_precautions.html
___
Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
to UNsubscribe f
Of Lee Parker
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 6:40 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> ethanol and the Ellison
I have a friend who has had several race cars. He said they tested the
100LL against 93 octane auto gas and the auto gas came out with more horse
power on the dynometer. He also said the a
, 11/30/09, Tim <t...@telus.net> wrote:
From: Tim <t...@telus.net>
Subject: Re: KR> ethanol and the Ellison
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Monday, November 30, 2009, 8:01 AM
Precautions>>>>
http://www.fuel-
Precautions
http://www.fuel-testers.com/ethanol_engine_precautions.html
don't
run a Car engine ;-)
- Original Message -
From: "Mark Langford" <n5...@hiwaay.net>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 6:52 AM
Subject: Re: KR> ethanol and the Ellison
Mike Stirewalt wrote:
> ethanol. And who know
Mike Stirewalt wrote:
> ethanol. And who knows what it might be doing to diaphragms & other
> fittings inside the Ellison?
I know a guy who's had an Ellison diaphragm in a jar of E85 (85% ethanol)
for several years and it still looks like a new one. But as Larry would
say, "your mileage may
Hi Netters.
re Issue 186 on 25 Apr 06.
Lets face it, there is going to be a shortage of gasoline in the future. We
in the airplane group are a tiny drop in the pot. No one is going to make
special fuel for us. Go with the flow and that is ethanol. Adapt now. No
aluminum fuel lines. Ethanol
Harold:
I have no idea what the FAA's reasoning is but when they issue an STC to permit
the use of Autogas in an aircraft engine they stipulate that such fuel must NOT
contain alcohol. I do know that older auto engines, ones built before alcohol
blending began, were equiped with many ancillary
It is my understanding that this why alcohol and straight pump gas has never
been endorsed by the FAA: alcohol absorbs water. Water in fuel creates a
nightmare of problems from freezing at altitude to low power, etc
That is
why MOGAS at airports has the same rating in octane but is refined
Beverly & Colin Rainey wrote:
>
> Personally, everything I read leads me to draw the conclusion that the
> engine of the future in GA aviation will be run on JET A, kerosene.
> They already have several diesels that run successfully on it, and it
> is just a matter of time before they eclipse the
Netters:
Gleaned from new accounts it has came to my attention that the military uses a
grade of diesel fuel that fuels everything from HumVees to aircrft. Of course
they do it for logistical reasons. This fact came to my attention in a news
report where in the background I observed a "Chopper"
lez répondre à KRnet
Remis le : 27/05/2006 05:17
Pour : <kr...@mylist.net>
cc :(ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM)
Objet : KR> ethanol
Hi Netters.
re Issue 186 on 25 Apr 06.
Lets face it, there is going to be a shortage of gasoline in the future.
We
in
> Paris, France
>
>
>
> "Harold Woods" <haroldwo...@rogers.com>
>
> Envoyé par : krnet-boun...@mylist.net
> 27/05/2006 05:16
> Veuillez répondre à KRnet
> Remis le : 27/05/2006 05:17
>
>
> Pour : <kr...@mylist.net>
>
t-boun...@mylist.net
28/05/2006 14:43
Veuillez répondre à KRnet
Remis le : 28/05/2006 14:44
Pour : KRnet <kr...@mylist.net>
cc :(ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM)
Objet : Re: Réf. : KR> ethanol
KR-netters:
Has anyone explored using the old or newer VW diese
:00 PM
> >To: KRnet
> >Subject: Re: KR> Ethanol
>
> > FAA says that ethynol blends are a NO-NO.
>
> I have been flying 93 octane ethynol blens with absolutely no
> problemsmaybe I have just been lucky so far.
>
> Mark Jones (N886MJ)
> Wales, WI
>
I was watching a film on TV a couple of days ago that showed a Mooney flying on
pure ethynol. I then read an article in the Saint Paul paper that said that it
cost $2.74 per gallon to make ethynol.
Pat Driscoll
Saint Paul, MN
patric...@usfamily.net
http://www.freewebs.com/patrick1936/
LIFE MAY
Pat:
I wonder what mods were made to the engine/carburator/injection system to
permit that because in the STC's it is clearly stated no alcohol.
Don
Pat Driscoll wrote:
> I was watching a film on TV a couple of days
It takes twice as much ethanol than gasoline to do the same task, and
when they blend 10% ethanol, you're losing 5% in value.
Ethanol is a big joke, ranking just behind hydrogen as a good idea.
Think about how they make hydrogen. In our imperfect government,
they'll probably use ethanol to fuel
et>
Envoyé par : krnet-boun...@mylist.net
24/04/2006 18:06
Veuillez répondre à KRnet
Remis le : 24/04/2006 18:06
Pour : "'KRnet'" <kr...@mylist.net>
cc :(ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM)
Objet : RE: KR> Ethanol
It takes twice as much ethano
Ron:
You have it about right on fuel economy and unfortunately there are to few
diesel a/c engines available as they are a challenge for weight reasons. A
diesel would be great as you can run #6 fuel oil or "Jet A" in one. That is
what the military has done for logistics reasons as all their
Don wrote:I wonder what mods were made to the engine/carburator/injection
system
According to the announcer, only drilling out a couple of ports in the carb
were needed
Pat Driscoll
Saint Paul, MN
patric...@usfamily.net
http://www.freewebs.com/patrick1936/
LIFE MAY NOT BE THE PARTY WE HOPED
Pat:
I can see that but that alone will not adjust for the higher volitility that
causes vapor locking and
alcohol is very hygroscopic which can also cause problems, Some seal materials
are also adversely
affected so that would need to be checked out and addressed.
Don
Hi all is this going to be a problem running in are aircraft? and if so what
can we do .
most guys at the airport don't seem to really know . im not going back to
avgas it just devastates the valve seats in vw engines .
mac n1055a still flying the vw
powered Kr
--- flymaca711...@aol.com wrote:
> im not going back to
> avgas it just devastates the valve seats in vw
> engines .
Anybody know WHY it trashes the valve seats in VW
engines?
Scott
__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best
Low lead.
- Original Message -
From: "Scott William" <scot...@yahoo.com>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 10:52 PM
Subject: Re: KR> Ethanol
>
>
> --- flymaca711...@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>> im not goi
Auto gas has NO lead.
Anybody else?
Scott
--- James R Freeman <jrfree...@highland.net> wrote:
> Low lead.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Scott William" <scot...@yahoo.com>
> To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
> Sent: Su
Rnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
> > Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 10:52 PM
> > Subject: Re: KR> Ethanol
> >
> >> > Anybody know WHY it trashes the valve seats in VW
> > > engines?
> > >
> > > Scott
> > >
> &g
,
farm, or other off road use.
- Original Message -
From: "Scott William" <scot...@yahoo.com>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: KR> Ethanol
>
> Auto gas has NO lead.
>
> Anybody else?
>
>
This is a good point. Based on my experience with it,
it vapor-locks at sea level so I wouldn't want to fly
with it.
Scott
--- D F Lively wrote:
potential
> forvapor-lock at altitude when
> used.
__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired
>-Original Message-
>From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On
>Behalf Of D F Lively
>Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 11:00 PM
>To: KRnet
>Subject: Re: KR> Ethanol
> FAA says that ethynol blends are a NO-NO.
I have been flying
The use of ethanol blend gasoline has many more ramifications that just O
rings and carb parts.
The ethanol gasoline has a lower vapor pressure that straight gasoline which
may give you trouble at higher altitudes above 8,000'
It absorbs water and holds it suspended in your fuel. Carb icing
In their great wisdom and ignorance of the consequences, the Kansas state
legislature has passed a law that PROHIBITS the filling stations from
indicating if the gasoline contains alcohol, except for the E85 designation
(the farm lobby is strong here). Consequently, you can believe that they
The problem is that they are probaly cheaper and the aviation industry
couldn't have that :-)
-Original Message-
They obviously make alcohol resistant rubbers that are used in automotive
systems and how much more could they possibly cost?
Brian Kraut
-End Original Message-
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