RE: [313] Black techno artists
">This guy is almost black. > >http://www.techstylism.com/pic/spot/jlafro.html > >// janos" ... See how ridiculous this gets? Admittedly this is just a tactless thing to say, but I can see where he's coming from. Janos, imho 'blackness' such as it is, is not a question of degree, it's probably more a quality of ethnicity and concommittent experience which either is - or isn't. Which is why, to me Daryl Hall & John Oates (to use a perhaps too obvious example) are amongst the blackest soul singers around ... sigh, does anybody get this? >-Original Message- >From: janos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 11:22 PM >To: 313@hyperreal.org >Subject: Re: [313] Black techno artists > > >This guy is almost black. > >http://www.techstylism.com/pic/spot/jlafro.html > >// janos > > >- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RE: [313] Black techno artists
Orlando Voorn comes from a hip hop background and is a pretty good hip hopm DJ
by all accounts (was it the DMC he won?)
The earliest techno records I heard by him were his early frequency stuff
('hey, hey, hey' is the only title I can remember off hand) which was big on
the early 90s rave scene, hard, kinda funky and very European sounding. Then of
course there were his collaborations with Juan and Blake Baxter (Basic
Bastard?), the famous 'Flash' by Fix and his label Slamdunk. My personal
favourites though are the 12 he did on Fragile and the double Baruka album that
came out on Buzz (Both of which I have and neither of which i can remember)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.digital-soul.co.uk
>
> From: "Odeluga, Ken" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Wed 13/Feb/2002 12:36 CET
> To: s mcgill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "[EMAIL PROTECTED] Org"
><313@hyperreal.org>
> Subject: RE: [313] Black techno artists
>
> Satisfied? To sum up (so far) that's Mr G, Rockliffe & Rachmad. But no one's
> mentioned Orlando Voorn ... Amsterdam. I know very little about him myself
> ... a collaboration with Atkins circa 1995/6 - If you have Tresor's Infiniti
> Collection - it's on there ... yes he's definitely black, before I get
> asked, have seen pictures ... not that to me, that is the most salient
> aspect of him being Orlando Voorn.
>
> I'd appreciate more info on him myself.
>
> Peace
>
> >-----Original Message-
> >From: s mcgill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 12:42 AM
> >To: 313
> >Subject: Re: [313] Black techno artists
> >
> >
> >hmm. I don't know where this thread started but to comment on these two
> >artistically I would say that Angel has lost his way recently (in mine
> >eyes), Rockliffe isn't a bad dj but I am not too sure about his
> >productions.
> >He needs to move way from that Carl Cox, Billy Nasty, Jim Masters stable to
> >evolve (if he has that in the tank - remains...).
> >
> >Rachmad is probably the most in touch detroit-influenced black producer I
> >can think of over here and he is from Holland. Everyone else is lost in the
> >commercial cancer that is UK garage. 4-hero are too much of an innovation
> >now to be linked with influences all the time, 'the boyz done good.'
> >
> >
> >- Original Message -
> >From: FC3 Richards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Cc: <313@hyperreal.org>
> >Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 8:51 PM
> >Subject: RE: [313] Black techno artists
> >
> >
> >> DAVE ANGEL AND TREVOR ROCKLIFE
> >>
> >> as far as i know, and from some pics i have seen they appear to be
> >> black...Mr Angel was obviously heavily influenced by Detroit judging by
> >his
> >> production sound. As far as more recently though, i don't think he has
> >done
> >> anything. Trevor Rocklife has done some work with Blake Baxter and plays
> >> out some good quality records...if that is what you are looking
> >for on the
> >> Europe tip.
> >>
> >> peace
> >>
> >> Jeff
> >>
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > From: Gerald [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 3:50 PM
> >> > To: 313@hyperreal.org
> >> > Subject: [313] Black techno artists
> >> >
> >> > Figured since it's Black History Month...
> >> >
> >> > Just wanted to hear about Black artists and their influence on
> >the music
> >> > we all know and love TECHNO. Now we all know about the role a few
> >> > Detroiter's had in the beginning. I'm more interested in hearing about
> >> > more recent influences. Guys like Titonton Duvante, and Charles Noel
> >> > come to mind. How about Europe?
> >> > Anyone...?
> >> >
> >> > G
> >> >
> >> > -
> >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >> -
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >-
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
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RE: [313] Black techno artists
Memo from Alex Bond of PricewaterhouseCoopers Start of message text Orlando is black, although I fail to see what it has to do with anything. He's also about 6'7", he is MASSIVE!! He is also a really cool guy, one of the good ones! (there's not many!) My Orlando top 3 . 1. Baruka - 'Raver of the lost funk' (Nightvision) 2. Infiniti - 'Game One' (w/Juan Atkins- Metroplex) 3. Basic B*stard Volume 4 - (Outland/Spiritual?) He has made many more very very good records, the names of which I can't remeber off the top of my head. There is a Baruka LP with a black cover and some eyes and lightning on - that's awesome also (is it on Buzz) "Odeluga, Ken" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 13/02/2002 11:36:23 To: s mcgill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "[EMAIL PROTECTED] Org" <313@hyperreal.org> cc: Subject: RE: [313] Black techno artists Satisfied? To sum up (so far) that's Mr G, Rockliffe & Rachmad. But no one's mentioned Orlando Voorn ... Amsterdam. I know very little about him myself ... a collaboration with Atkins circa 1995/6 - If you have Tresor's Infiniti Collection - it's on there ... yes he's definitely black, before I get asked, have seen pictures ... not that to me, that is the most salient aspect of him being Orlando Voorn. I'd appreciate more info on him myself. Peace >-Original Message----- >From: s mcgill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 12:42 AM >To: 313 >Subject: Re: [313] Black techno artists > > >hmm. I don't know where this thread started but to comment on these two >artistically I would say that Angel has lost his way recently (in mine >eyes), Rockliffe isn't a bad dj but I am not too sure about his >productions. >He needs to move way from that Carl Cox, Billy Nasty, Jim Masters stable to >evolve (if he has that in the tank - remains...). > >Rachmad is probably the most in touch detroit-influenced black producer I >can think of over here and he is from Holland. Everyone else is lost in the >commercial cancer that is UK garage. 4-hero are too much of an innovation >now to be linked with influences all the time, 'the boyz done good.' > > >- Original Message - >From: FC3 Richards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Cc: <313@hyperreal.org> >Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 8:51 PM >Subject: RE: [313] Black techno artists > > >> DAVE ANGEL AND TREVOR ROCKLIFE >> >> as far as i know, and from some pics i have seen they appear to be >> black...Mr Angel was obviously heavily influenced by Detroit judging by >his >> production sound. As far as more recently though, i don't think he has >done >> anything. Trevor Rocklife has done some work with Blake Baxter and plays >> out some good quality records...if that is what you are looking >for on the >> Europe tip. >> >> peace >> >> Jeff >> >> > -Original Message- >> > From: Gerald [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 3:50 PM >> > To: 313@hyperreal.org >> > Subject: [313] Black techno artists >> > >> > Figured since it's Black History Month... >> > >> > Just wanted to hear about Black artists and their influence on >the music >> > we all know and love TECHNO. Now we all know about the role a few >> > Detroiter's had in the beginning. I'm more interested in hearing about >> > more recent influences. Guys like Titonton Duvante, and Charles Noel >> > come to mind. How about Europe? >> > Anyone...? >> > >> > G >> > >> > - >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> > > >- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - End of message text This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-m
RE: [313] Black techno artists
Satisfied? To sum up (so far) that's Mr G, Rockliffe & Rachmad. But no one's mentioned Orlando Voorn ... Amsterdam. I know very little about him myself ... a collaboration with Atkins circa 1995/6 - If you have Tresor's Infiniti Collection - it's on there ... yes he's definitely black, before I get asked, have seen pictures ... not that to me, that is the most salient aspect of him being Orlando Voorn. I'd appreciate more info on him myself. Peace >-Original Message- >From: s mcgill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 12:42 AM >To: 313 >Subject: Re: [313] Black techno artists > > >hmm. I don't know where this thread started but to comment on these two >artistically I would say that Angel has lost his way recently (in mine >eyes), Rockliffe isn't a bad dj but I am not too sure about his >productions. >He needs to move way from that Carl Cox, Billy Nasty, Jim Masters stable to >evolve (if he has that in the tank - remains...). > >Rachmad is probably the most in touch detroit-influenced black producer I >can think of over here and he is from Holland. Everyone else is lost in the >commercial cancer that is UK garage. 4-hero are too much of an innovation >now to be linked with influences all the time, 'the boyz done good.' > > >- Original Message - >From: FC3 Richards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Cc: <313@hyperreal.org> >Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 8:51 PM >Subject: RE: [313] Black techno artists > > >> DAVE ANGEL AND TREVOR ROCKLIFE >> >> as far as i know, and from some pics i have seen they appear to be >> black...Mr Angel was obviously heavily influenced by Detroit judging by >his >> production sound. As far as more recently though, i don't think he has >done >> anything. Trevor Rocklife has done some work with Blake Baxter and plays >> out some good quality records...if that is what you are looking >for on the >> Europe tip. >> >> peace >> >> Jeff >> >> > -Original Message- >> > From: Gerald [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 3:50 PM >> > To: 313@hyperreal.org >> > Subject: [313] Black techno artists >> > >> > Figured since it's Black History Month... >> > >> > Just wanted to hear about Black artists and their influence on >the music >> > we all know and love TECHNO. Now we all know about the role a few >> > Detroiter's had in the beginning. I'm more interested in hearing about >> > more recent influences. Guys like Titonton Duvante, and Charles Noel >> > come to mind. How about Europe? >> > Anyone...? >> > >> > G >> > >> > - >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> > > >- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Black techno artists
>> as far as i know, and from some pics i have seen they appear to be >> black...Mr Angel was obviously heavily influenced by Detroit judging by > his >> production sound. As far as more recently though, i don't think he has > done >> anything. Dave Angel is fully into the Detroit sound, plus his dad is a musician and he has a full jazz background. He is a funny guy. He has been working on a new album after leaving Island. Angel has a new Internet-order mix-CD, Dave Angel 01 - for more info check the web site (I think it's www.trustthedj.com). This is from an interview late last year: He is recording an ambitious third album with live instrumentation, vocalists, and calibre guests such as Roy Ayers, George Clinton and New Zealander Mark D' Clive-Lowe. Angel intends it to be his definitive "future jazz" LP. "I've just been touring around the world," he says. "I've kinda taken a bit of a break from the studio, you know. I'm still working on the album - I've been working on it now for about two years. I've taken a break from it because I'm just not happy in the environment that I'm working in right now, so my studio's under construction right now - a whole new studio getting built - and I just feel a change is needed in terms of equipment and environment." Angel has already laid down music with Clinton and Ayers. His hook-up with Clinton was an experience, Dave says. "Crazy - bloody hard as well! I learnt a lot of things (laughs)... I learnt a lot of things. I learnt a lot of positive things - that's the only thing I can really tell ya!" By contrast, Dave describes Ayers as "a living genius - totally professional and just straight to the point." At any rate, Dave is in no rush to shop for a record deal for the album. "I haven't got anybody backing me or anything - I'm just doing this all by myself," he asserts. "I see it as my baby, and it's my project, funded by me - my time, my creation - and, really, I'd like to keep it that way for as long as I can." - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Black techno artists
hmm. I don't know where this thread started but to comment on these two artistically I would say that Angel has lost his way recently (in mine eyes), Rockliffe isn't a bad dj but I am not too sure about his productions. He needs to move way from that Carl Cox, Billy Nasty, Jim Masters stable to evolve (if he has that in the tank - remains...). Rachmad is probably the most in touch detroit-influenced black producer I can think of over here and he is from Holland. Everyone else is lost in the commercial cancer that is UK garage. 4-hero are too much of an innovation now to be linked with influences all the time, 'the boyz done good.' - Original Message - From: FC3 Richards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 8:51 PM Subject: RE: [313] Black techno artists > DAVE ANGEL AND TREVOR ROCKLIFE > > as far as i know, and from some pics i have seen they appear to be > black...Mr Angel was obviously heavily influenced by Detroit judging by his > production sound. As far as more recently though, i don't think he has done > anything. Trevor Rocklife has done some work with Blake Baxter and plays > out some good quality records...if that is what you are looking for on the > Europe tip. > > peace > > Jeff > > > -Original Message- > > From: Gerald [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 3:50 PM > > To: 313@hyperreal.org > > Subject: [313] Black techno artists > > > > Figured since it's Black History Month... > > > > Just wanted to hear about Black artists and their influence on the music > > we all know and love TECHNO. Now we all know about the role a few > > Detroiter's had in the beginning. I'm more interested in hearing about > > more recent influences. Guys like Titonton Duvante, and Charles Noel > > come to mind. How about Europe? > > Anyone...? > > > > G > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Black techno artists
This guy is almost black. http://www.techstylism.com/pic/spot/jlafro.html // janos - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Black techno artists
DAVE ANGEL AND TREVOR ROCKLIFE are black. - Original Message - From: "FC3 Richards" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 3:51 PM Subject: RE: [313] Black techno artists > > > as far as i know, and from some pics i have seen they appear to be > black...Mr Angel was obviously heavily influenced by Detroit judging by his > production sound. As far as more recently though, i don't think he has done > anything. Trevor Rocklife has done some work with Blake Baxter and plays > out some good quality records...if that is what you are looking for on the > Europe tip. > > peace > > Jeff > > > -Original Message- > > From: Gerald [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 3:50 PM > > To: 313@hyperreal.org > > Subject: [313] Black techno artists > > > > Figured since it's Black History Month... > > > > Just wanted to hear about Black artists and their influence on the music > > we all know and love TECHNO. Now we all know about the role a few > > Detroiter's had in the beginning. I'm more interested in hearing about > > more recent influences. Guys like Titonton Duvante, and Charles Noel > > come to mind. How about Europe? > > Anyone...? > > > > G > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Black techno artists
DAVE ANGEL AND TREVOR ROCKLIFE as far as i know, and from some pics i have seen they appear to be black...Mr Angel was obviously heavily influenced by Detroit judging by his production sound. As far as more recently though, i don't think he has done anything. Trevor Rocklife has done some work with Blake Baxter and plays out some good quality records...if that is what you are looking for on the Europe tip. peace Jeff > -Original Message- > From: Gerald [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 3:50 PM > To: 313@hyperreal.org > Subject: [313] Black techno artists > > Figured since it's Black History Month... > > Just wanted to hear about Black artists and their influence on the music > we all know and love TECHNO. Now we all know about the role a few > Detroiter's had in the beginning. I'm more interested in hearing about > more recent influences. Guys like Titonton Duvante, and Charles Noel > come to mind. How about Europe? > Anyone...? > > G > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[313] black techno artists
I would just like to say that I never quoted Juan Atkins and I never claimed to. I sent my post not to pretend I knew what he said but what my impressions of what I read. My goal was to begin a dialogue of this article to clarify the important ideas in it. A few people did post me back with constructive thoughts. These people had the decency to know that I was curious. The article left a bad taste in my mouth because I too would like the realization of a social utopia. Luckily, some of the messages I received helped me to see where Atkins was coming from. Isn't that the purpose of dialogue? I don't read something and try to see the negative in it first. That path leads people nowhere. We end up just talking to hear ourselves talk. Guess what? I learned something that I wouldn't have if everyone would have dismissed my post or wrote me back with some sarcastic remark. Luna
FW: [313] Black techno artists]
... It's amongst the oldest problems in the world and certainly the oldest problem in America. Let's leave it in the authoritarian unenlightened mainstream - after all, we're not like that here are we ;o) ... Let's try and tackle our concerns here with imagination, insight and a quest toward self-awareness - as analogues to what our music metaphorically is about. Ken >-Original Message- >From: Alexandres Lugo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 9:49 PM >To: Cyborg K >Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED] Org' >Subject: RE: [313] Black techno artists] > > >Thank you for an excellent post. A lot of people would like to gloss over >the fact that racism still exists in America and yes, in the Detroit area. >They would like to pretend it's all done and over with and has not had an >effect on the creation of this music and that it does not matter what skin >color is behind the music. I would like to think that most people on this >list are above this BS of skin color, and that is what they are trying to >express by saying "why does it matter?" > >The first poster was not trying to bring up a racist topic AT ALL! It's >pretty sad that as soon as someone asks any questions on this list that >include the words "black artists" you have all these people jumping on him >and saying "it's not about that!!". It's not? Maybe not to you but to some >people it may be. > >The same thing goes for the misquote of Juan Atkins the other day and the >poster losing respect for him. That is the problem with the world today. >Someone has a different view of things and because they do not agree with >your world view you have "no respect" for him any more. Sad. > >Techno has been bastardized enough by drugs, raves, etc. and is now for the >most part considered to the outside world that doesn't know any better as >white music. Hence the frustration that Eddie was speaking of techno being >ignored by black audiences. Granted, a lot of that is caused by the >popularity of this thing they call rap and hip hop nowadays...pop music. > >All this to say: if someone on this is asking about black >influences/artists, don't assume they are trying to start a thread about >racism... > >Peace, >Alex >www.fulcruminn.net > >"Either they don't show, don't know, or don't give a fuck about >the ghetto." >Ice Cube > >-Or >From: Cyborg K [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 1:16 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; >[EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org >Subject: Re: [313] Black techno artists] > > >JAMES PENNINGTON: >"The outer space stuff has always been a fascination because life on earth >has always been so hard for us being black. Maybe outer space has >no rules. > No one has gravity in space." > >from an interview posted on www.undergroundcommittee.com > > Let me preface this post be saying that I haven't posted on this list >in a long time, but I feel that this topic is too important to ignore. It >is impossible to analyze or understand cultural products without looking at >their social context; now some of you may not want to understand, would >prefer to be entertained without understanding, but I'm going to >assume that >if it is art then techno has potentials to raise consciousness and >on a list >dedicated to discussing DETROIT techno we have an obligation to try to >understand rather than simply consume and enjoy. First of all, it's >impossible to understand any AMERICAN music, much less DETROIT techno, >without looking at issues of racial injustice specifically the >relationships >of whites and blacks. WHY IS THIS? Because the rhythms that are >behind all >of our popular musics are to a great degree African derived, that's what >funk and soul is, it's the memory of these African rhythms passed down from >generation to generation by a people who were taken from their homeland. >Billy Hart, the great jazz drummer (in the 70's played with Pharoah Sanders >and the Herbie Hancock sextet) has lectured about the African derivation of >many of these rhythms, and has mentioned the possibility that these rhythms >may even have specific characteristics, that they may have physical and >spiritual aspects that act upon us when we hear them, an intriguing >possibility. The point is, these rhythms were brought over by African >slaves, and although the white masters attempted to completely >destroy their >culture and humanity, these rhythms were preserved and passed down... And >then, in the 20th century, we find a new situation--slavery has ended, and >again and
RE: [313] Black techno artists]
Thank you for an excellent post. A lot of people would like to gloss over the fact that racism still exists in America and yes, in the Detroit area. They would like to pretend it's all done and over with and has not had an effect on the creation of this music and that it does not matter what skin color is behind the music. I would like to think that most people on this list are above this BS of skin color, and that is what they are trying to express by saying "why does it matter?" The first poster was not trying to bring up a racist topic AT ALL! It's pretty sad that as soon as someone asks any questions on this list that include the words "black artists" you have all these people jumping on him and saying "it's not about that!!". It's not? Maybe not to you but to some people it may be. The same thing goes for the misquote of Juan Atkins the other day and the poster losing respect for him. That is the problem with the world today. Someone has a different view of things and because they do not agree with your world view you have "no respect" for him any more. Sad. Techno has been bastardized enough by drugs, raves, etc. and is now for the most part considered to the outside world that doesn't know any better as white music. Hence the frustration that Eddie was speaking of techno being ignored by black audiences. Granted, a lot of that is caused by the popularity of this thing they call rap and hip hop nowadays...pop music. All this to say: if someone on this is asking about black influences/artists, don't assume they are trying to start a thread about racism... Peace, Alex www.fulcruminn.net "Either they don't show, don't know, or don't give a fuck about the ghetto." Ice Cube -Or From: Cyborg K [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 1:16 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Black techno artists] JAMES PENNINGTON: "The outer space stuff has always been a fascination because life on earth has always been so hard for us being black. Maybe outer space has no rules. No one has gravity in space." >from an interview posted on www.undergroundcommittee.com Let me preface this post be saying that I haven't posted on this list in a long time, but I feel that this topic is too important to ignore. It is impossible to analyze or understand cultural products without looking at their social context; now some of you may not want to understand, would prefer to be entertained without understanding, but I'm going to assume that if it is art then techno has potentials to raise consciousness and on a list dedicated to discussing DETROIT techno we have an obligation to try to understand rather than simply consume and enjoy. First of all, it's impossible to understand any AMERICAN music, much less DETROIT techno, without looking at issues of racial injustice specifically the relationships of whites and blacks. WHY IS THIS? Because the rhythms that are behind all of our popular musics are to a great degree African derived, that's what funk and soul is, it's the memory of these African rhythms passed down from generation to generation by a people who were taken from their homeland. Billy Hart, the great jazz drummer (in the 70's played with Pharoah Sanders and the Herbie Hancock sextet) has lectured about the African derivation of many of these rhythms, and has mentioned the possibility that these rhythms may even have specific characteristics, that they may have physical and spiritual aspects that act upon us when we hear them, an intriguing possibility. The point is, these rhythms were brought over by African slaves, and although the white masters attempted to completely destroy their culture and humanity, these rhythms were preserved and passed down... And then, in the 20th century, we find a new situation--slavery has ended, and again and again African-Americans are innovating and creating brilliant new styles of music, combining the sounds of their and environment and Western European influences with their own funky rhythms that they have preserved through all these years, rhythms rooted in African spiritual culture. But what happens??? Their rhythms are constantly hijacked and glossed over, their innovations are taken from them, their names are erased, and white-washed cultural commodities are produced that the white masses can handle, commodities that no longer preserve the memory of an African spiritual heritage. Blues, jazz, rock/pop, house, techno, it's been happening the whole 20th century and now it looks like it's going to continue right on into the 21st. Meanwhile, in a city like Detroit you have a state of de fact segration, a city full of African-Americans who have been abondoned to live in a wasteland while the suburbs that surround them prosper, a
Re: [313] Black techno artists]
ted equal...", why does Jay Denham have a track that goes "Black Power, it's time for Black Power", it's because these kind of conditions still exist and art is a potential means to raise awareness of them. Racial problems only get worse when you ignore them. And to forget historical injustice is to erase the victims from history and let the oppresors win. We should never forget slavery in America, we should never forget Auswitchz either (or Dresden and Hiroshima for that matter...) Only by remembering can we hope to change the course of history so that these things don't happen over and over and over again. Yes we should imagine utopian spaces, "maybe outer space has no rules", BUT we should never confuse these utopias with the world we live in, we have to fight to create these spaces and that takes active recognition of the many forms of injustice on this planet. And that is why in the here and now we cannot afford to be color blind. MAD MIKE: "...The programmers taught them that all brothers that didnt have on silver shoes and didn't smile or laugh at bullshit jokes and small talk were probably criminals... I am a very serious brother nothing that I do or have done with UR is funny or entertaining, I am not a clown and I will never tap dance on cue..." from a message to the 313 list /cyborgk: TECHNOLOGY IS POWER. Original Message Follows From: "Super Coffee Beans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Phonopsia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <313@hyperreal.org> Subject: Re: [313] Black techno artists] Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 18:50:08 +0200 put emphasis on the music, and the person who make, by asking this racial questions u only make the racial problem. if u think about the persons who make the music as REAL live person and not as black or white but as human, things will be better. you might say i am just one little person and racial problem is a fact- well if u want a change do the change. and those try to demolish all this racial stuff from the discourse. i know what i am saying i am jewish. y. - Original Message - From: "Phonopsia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 6:23 PM Subject: Re: [313] Black techno artists] > - Original Message - > From: "armin holzgethan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <313@hyperreal.org> > Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 7:51 AM > Subject: Re: [313] Black techno artists] > > > i still don't get it. > > > > what are you aiming at? how & where should this recognition express > itself? on > > mtv, usa today? how many people know stephen king? and how many know > malcolm > > lowry? > > I'm aiming at recognition in the electronic music underground. How to > quantify recognition? Sure it's oblique... How about references in histories > of house (AV and textual) for one. Prolly a lame definition, but you get > what I'm on about. > > > all those you mention are more or less known to people into this music. > some > > will reach a certain status as "innovators", some will be forgotten. some > will > > blow up by accident because the time is right and/or because they work > towards > > it. maybe this has sometimes to do with the quality and the aim of their > work > > too? to blame it all on the circumstances seems to me as banal as the > opposite, > > which is to blame it all on the lack of marketing skills. > > I don't think that's the whole cup of tea. There's a mythos attached to the > term "Chicago House DJ" that is not parallel to "Detroit House DJ" in the > mind of the average club-goer who is somewhat in-the-know. For instance, > "Chicago's Gene Farris" immediately has a credibility to the average house > club-goer that "Detroit's Terrence Parker" does not. To see this in effect, > look at a poster for Gene Farris' "Booked" CD. > > > tp has a relatively huge fanbase in germany because of his djing. all of > his > > records i know of are mediocre. alan oldham's stuff lacks originality big > time. > > just to be a detroiter and having started in 1988 is not enough. > > Yeah. TP has built a dedicated fan-base in Germany over the years, but he is > relatively unknown and hasn't played in Washington DC in years (if ever). > This is a house music city and has been for over a decade. Ron Trent has > been here (but he's known here for his work living in New York) and Alton > Miller has played here once. At the same time, at least 10 Chicago house DJs > have played here, not to mention endless DJs from New York (
Re: [313] Black techno artists]
put emphasis on the music, and the person who make, by asking this racial questions u only make the racial problem. if u think about the persons who make the music as REAL live person and not as black or white but as human, things will be better. you might say i am just one little person and racial problem is a fact- well if u want a change do the change. and those try to demolish all this racial stuff from the discourse. i know what i am saying i am jewish. y. - Original Message - From: "Phonopsia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 6:23 PM Subject: Re: [313] Black techno artists] > - Original Message - > From: "armin holzgethan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <313@hyperreal.org> > Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 7:51 AM > Subject: Re: [313] Black techno artists] > > > i still don't get it. > > > > what are you aiming at? how & where should this recognition express > itself? on > > mtv, usa today? how many people know stephen king? and how many know > malcolm > > lowry? > > I'm aiming at recognition in the electronic music underground. How to > quantify recognition? Sure it's oblique... How about references in histories > of house (AV and textual) for one. Prolly a lame definition, but you get > what I'm on about. > > > all those you mention are more or less known to people into this music. > some > > will reach a certain status as "innovators", some will be forgotten. some > will > > blow up by accident because the time is right and/or because they work > towards > > it. maybe this has sometimes to do with the quality and the aim of their > work > > too? to blame it all on the circumstances seems to me as banal as the > opposite, > > which is to blame it all on the lack of marketing skills. > > I don't think that's the whole cup of tea. There's a mythos attached to the > term "Chicago House DJ" that is not parallel to "Detroit House DJ" in the > mind of the average club-goer who is somewhat in-the-know. For instance, > "Chicago's Gene Farris" immediately has a credibility to the average house > club-goer that "Detroit's Terrence Parker" does not. To see this in effect, > look at a poster for Gene Farris' "Booked" CD. > > > tp has a relatively huge fanbase in germany because of his djing. all of > his > > records i know of are mediocre. alan oldham's stuff lacks originality big > time. > > just to be a detroiter and having started in 1988 is not enough. > > Yeah. TP has built a dedicated fan-base in Germany over the years, but he is > relatively unknown and hasn't played in Washington DC in years (if ever). > This is a house music city and has been for over a decade. Ron Trent has > been here (but he's known here for his work living in New York) and Alton > Miller has played here once. At the same time, at least 10 Chicago house DJs > have played here, not to mention endless DJs from New York (although they > have a geographical advantage to DJs form the midwest). In addition to that, > most "scenes" in the eastern U.S. "buy into" a New York version of the > history of house/garage. Statements like "everyone knows house came from New > York" would not be uncommon, and generally reinforced through local > promotions/myths/regional email lists, etc. Not only is the Chicago history > of house downplayed if recognized at all, the Detroit history of house is > completely absent. You could almost flip the coin and apply all of that to > Chicago - but not to the same degree, and again Detroit is missing from the > puzzle. History's are being written today, and it takes a history of house > and techno *in Detroit* to recognize Detroit House, although the impact of > Detroit house from the 80s was just as lasting as any other. Couldn't we put > the Music Institute right near the Warehouse and the Paradise Garage in > terms of legendary clubs that defined and nurtured scenes? You can't try to > tell me this is even 1/10th as recognizable as either of the former in > today's music histories. > > > self-esteem is not supposed to grow because of one's name in the paper or > a > > certain number on one's bank statement, but because one feels that he/she > is > > doing the right thing and maybe because one lifts the artform to new > heights. > > the name all over the paper and the big bucks in the bank are most of the > time > > & and as long as this capitalist etc society stands a sign that one > submitted & > &g
Re: [313] Black techno artists]
- Original Message - From: "armin holzgethan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 7:51 AM Subject: Re: [313] Black techno artists] > i still don't get it. > > what are you aiming at? how & where should this recognition express itself? on > mtv, usa today? how many people know stephen king? and how many know malcolm > lowry? I'm aiming at recognition in the electronic music underground. How to quantify recognition? Sure it's oblique... How about references in histories of house (AV and textual) for one. Prolly a lame definition, but you get what I'm on about. > all those you mention are more or less known to people into this music. some > will reach a certain status as "innovators", some will be forgotten. some will > blow up by accident because the time is right and/or because they work towards > it. maybe this has sometimes to do with the quality and the aim of their work > too? to blame it all on the circumstances seems to me as banal as the opposite, > which is to blame it all on the lack of marketing skills. I don't think that's the whole cup of tea. There's a mythos attached to the term "Chicago House DJ" that is not parallel to "Detroit House DJ" in the mind of the average club-goer who is somewhat in-the-know. For instance, "Chicago's Gene Farris" immediately has a credibility to the average house club-goer that "Detroit's Terrence Parker" does not. To see this in effect, look at a poster for Gene Farris' "Booked" CD. > tp has a relatively huge fanbase in germany because of his djing. all of his > records i know of are mediocre. alan oldham's stuff lacks originality big time. > just to be a detroiter and having started in 1988 is not enough. Yeah. TP has built a dedicated fan-base in Germany over the years, but he is relatively unknown and hasn't played in Washington DC in years (if ever). This is a house music city and has been for over a decade. Ron Trent has been here (but he's known here for his work living in New York) and Alton Miller has played here once. At the same time, at least 10 Chicago house DJs have played here, not to mention endless DJs from New York (although they have a geographical advantage to DJs form the midwest). In addition to that, most "scenes" in the eastern U.S. "buy into" a New York version of the history of house/garage. Statements like "everyone knows house came from New York" would not be uncommon, and generally reinforced through local promotions/myths/regional email lists, etc. Not only is the Chicago history of house downplayed if recognized at all, the Detroit history of house is completely absent. You could almost flip the coin and apply all of that to Chicago - but not to the same degree, and again Detroit is missing from the puzzle. History's are being written today, and it takes a history of house and techno *in Detroit* to recognize Detroit House, although the impact of Detroit house from the 80s was just as lasting as any other. Couldn't we put the Music Institute right near the Warehouse and the Paradise Garage in terms of legendary clubs that defined and nurtured scenes? You can't try to tell me this is even 1/10th as recognizable as either of the former in today's music histories. > self-esteem is not supposed to grow because of one's name in the paper or a > certain number on one's bank statement, but because one feels that he/she is > doing the right thing and maybe because one lifts the artform to new heights. > the name all over the paper and the big bucks in the bank are most of the time > & and as long as this capitalist etc society stands a sign that one submitted & > adapted oneself successfully to the expectations of society. same as good marks > at school. same as any institutional or mainstream recognition. in this sense > most of the time mainstream success can be used as a sign for irrelevance. What I was noting with my list was people who generally don't get the same acclaim as their peers from the '80s in Chicago and New York in the histories of house - not specifically in terms of bank rolls. Detroit house is something that most people into house can't even recognize. Tristan -- http://www.mp313.com <- Music http://www.metrotechno.net <- DC techno + more http://www.metatrackstudios.com <- DC DJ/Production studios http://phonopsia.tripod.com <- Hub [EMAIL PROTECTED] <- email <- AOL Instant Messenger - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Black techno artists]
> - Original Message - > From: "glyph1001" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "313 List" <313@hyperreal.org> > Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 2:48 AM > Subject: [Fwd: Re: [313] Black techno artists] > > > Eddie "Flashin'" Fowlkes (or is it "Old Skool" now) - he was there along > > with the other magnificent three but never got the recognition. > > Alan Oldham - not only is he a great music producer but without him > > DJAX-UP-BEATS would not be the same. Has never made enough comic books. > > Word!!! I've been thinking that for some time now. > > How about Butch Strange? Saw him at the Motor 5 year anniversay party and he > ripped it up! > > I guess DEMF2 counts as recognition, but what about Keith Worthy? He had a > great set, and I never hear about him here. > > In the broader sense, how about Ron Trent, Chez Damier, Alton Miller, Marc > Kinchen, TP, Mike Clark and others who helped make the house scene in > Detroit early on, but have never really been recognized outside of Detroit > for their contributions to the entire history of house (at least relative to > those from Chicago and New York). It's obvious that the more recent Detroit > house artists like Theo Parrish don't get their just due, but what about > these guys that have been prominent for a while but don't get the > recognition they deserve globally? > > Tristan > -- i still don't get it. what are you aiming at? how & where should this recognition express itself? on mtv, usa today? how many people know stephen king? and how many know malcolm lowry? all those you mention are more or less known to people into this music. some will reach a certain status as "innovators", some will be forgotten. some will blow up by accident because the time is right and/or because they work towards it. maybe this has sometimes to do with the quality and the aim of their work too? to blame it all on the circumstances seems to me as banal as the opposite, which is to blame it all on the lack of marketing skills. tp has a relatively huge fanbase in germany because of his djing. all of his records i know of are mediocre. alan oldham's stuff lacks originality big time. just to be a detroiter and having started in 1988 is not enough. theo parrish & moodymann are in the game since what, 5 years? and they are veritable stars in their circles already. but they don't produce music that can be played in a handy-dandy friday night house-set, which is a precondition for "global recognition". i think one has to refrain from taking popmusic as a reference, because it is subjected to mechanisms that lie beyond the music. one has to play to these rules if one wants to be constantly successful. one has to adapt and deny oneself constantly. success is the only criteria for the value of this type of shit. self-esteem is not supposed to grow because of one's name in the paper or a certain number on one's bank statement, but because one feels that he/she is doing the right thing and maybe because one lifts the artform to new heights. the name all over the paper and the big bucks in the bank are most of the time & and as long as this capitalist etc society stands a sign that one submitted & adapted oneself successfully to the expectations of society. same as good marks at school. same as any institutional or mainstream recognition. in this sense most of the time mainstream success can be used as a sign for irrelevance. despite the subject of this so far lame thread i'm not touching concrete exploitation & repression of black people in the usa. i'm not very familiar with the details. "black history month" seems a cynical joke to me though. basta! armin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: [313] Black techno artists]
- Original Message - From: "glyph1001" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "313 List" <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 2:48 AM Subject: [Fwd: Re: [313] Black techno artists] > Eddie "Flashin'" Fowlkes (or is it "Old Skool" now) - he was there along > with the other magnificent three but never got the recognition. > Alan Oldham - not only is he a great music producer but without him > DJAX-UP-BEATS would not be the same. Has never made enough comic books. Word!!! I've been thinking that for some time now. How about Butch Strange? Saw him at the Motor 5 year anniversay party and he ripped it up! I guess DEMF2 counts as recognition, but what about Keith Worthy? He had a great set, and I never hear about him here. In the broader sense, how about Ron Trent, Chez Damier, Alton Miller, Marc Kinchen, TP, Mike Clark and others who helped make the house scene in Detroit early on, but have never really been recognized outside of Detroit for their contributions to the entire history of house (at least relative to those from Chicago and New York). It's obvious that the more recent Detroit house artists like Theo Parrish don't get their just due, but what about these guys that have been prominent for a while but don't get the recognition they deserve globally? Tristan -- http://www.mp313.com <- Music http://www.metrotechno.net <- DC techno + more http://www.metatrackstudios.com <- DC DJ/Production studios http://phonopsia.tripod.com <- Hub [EMAIL PROTECTED] <- email <- AOL Instant Messenger - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Fwd: Re: [313] Black techno artists]
Original Message
Subject: Re: [313] Black techno artists
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 23:14:26 -0600
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ok then - let's discuss some American artists (black artists that is) that
don't get their dues, within the techno/house/drum&bass/etc. community that
is, because we all know that outside of it they are virtually unknown. So
I'll throw out a couple of names just to get the ball rolling (hopefully).
Pick which ever you want and tell us what and why you think they are -- oh
man I feel like I should be wearing a tweed coat with elbow patches.
Eddie "Flashin'" Fowlkes (or is it "Old Skool" now) - he was there along
with the other magnificent three but never got the recognition.
Alan Oldham - not only is he a great music producer but without him
DJAX-UP-BEATS would not be the same. Has never made enough comic books.
and here's some that aren't in the dance music genres but should be
celebrated and "discovered"
James Blood Ulmer - guitarist
Steve Coleman and the M-Base Collective
Andrew Cyrille - drummer
Just thought we could talk about the artists instead of bitching about
whether we should be talking about the artists.
Oh I'll also add Mary Wilson of the original Supremes - listen to her with
Cannonball Adderly for proof of her superior voice (compared to scary Diana
Ross)
MEK
glyph1001
cc:
Subject: Re: [313] Black techno artists
02/09/02 12:30 PM
Please respond to
glyph1001
Right on!! Can't say it better myself. =)
Have a nice day!
g.
"If you ain't feelin' it, this ain't for you!" --Steve Harvey (Kings
of Comedy)
Nicole Slavin wrote:
at the risk of being slated, how can so many people remove the context of
this music. it comes from a society and a place that has been a long time
marginalised. and, you will find the same problems in any european country
you decide to venture into.
you cannot divorce the artists' experience from their music and to deny
that
race is an issue for this music is well, frankly, weird.
why the dismissiveness towards this subject? would you look at a piece of
art without wondering about its social and historical context, would you
read a book and take it only at face value?
i know many people on the list feel this subject has been talked to death,
but it hasn't. it is still relevant and unresolved. how can you say you
have
no need to understand problems of the US, they are our problems too and
the
cultural and policitical and economic hegemonies of the US run the entire
world. do you want us to be programmed and passive forever?
there, i've had my say, criticise if you will.
N
-Original Message-----
From: Berislav Oremus
To: 313@hyperreal.org <313@hyperreal.org>
Date: 09 February 2002 07:07
Subject: Re: [313] Black techno artists
With no disrespect intended (I really love your music and your
contributions
to the list), I think a lot of Europeans have trouble relating to racial
problems in the US
this is so offtopic again, but im asking my self how we europeans cant
understand a racial problem in us, and again everything we do (in smaller
countreys) is so not democratic and we always live on some teritory of
economic sanctions, but we have to understand a rical problem in US. im
confused
i have a very big respect for black artist, and realy i dont have any
problems with black or white.
but i dont have any need to understand problems in US, at the same time
t
Re: [313] Black techno artists
"it'd be like dancing to no music." - Original Message - From: glyph1001 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [313] Black techno artists > Right on!! Can't say it better myself. =) > > Have a nice day! > > g. > > "If you ain't feelin' it, this ain't for you!" --Steve Harvey (Kings > of Comedy) > > Nicole Slavin wrote: > > >at the risk of being slated, how can so many people remove the context of > >this music. it comes from a society and a place that has been a long time > >marginalised. and, you will find the same problems in any european country > >you decide to venture into. > >you cannot divorce the artists' experience from their music and to deny that > >race is an issue for this music is well, frankly, weird. > >why the dismissiveness towards this subject? would you look at a piece of > >art without wondering about its social and historical context, would you > >read a book and take it only at face value? > >i know many people on the list feel this subject has been talked to death, > >but it hasn't. it is still relevant and unresolved. how can you say you have > >no need to understand problems of the US, they are our problems too and the > >cultural and policitical and economic hegemonies of the US run the entire > >world. do you want us to be programmed and passive forever? > >there, i've had my say, criticise if you will. > >N > >-Original Message- > >From: Berislav Oremus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: 313@hyperreal.org <313@hyperreal.org> > >Date: 09 February 2002 07:07 > >Subject: Re: [313] Black techno artists > > > > > >>>With no disrespect intended (I really love your music and your > >>> > >>contributions > >> > >>>to the list), I think a lot of Europeans have trouble relating to racial > >>>problems in the US > >>> > >>this is so offtopic again, but im asking my self how we europeans cant > >>understand a racial problem in us, and again everything we do (in smaller > >>countreys) is so not democratic and we always live on some teritory of > >>economic sanctions, but we have to understand a rical problem in US. im > >>confused > >> > >>i have a very big respect for black artist, and realy i dont have any > >>problems with black or white. > >>but i dont have any need to understand problems in US, at the same time > >> > >that > > > >>somebody from US have no need to understand problems that we have, or we > >>had > >> > >>and lets take that off this list... music learnd me to be tolerant > >> > >> > >>b. > >> > >> > >>- > >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> > > > > > >- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Black techno artists
Right on!! Can't say it better myself. =) Have a nice day! g. "If you ain't feelin' it, this ain't for you!" --Steve Harvey (Kings of Comedy) Nicole Slavin wrote: at the risk of being slated, how can so many people remove the context of this music. it comes from a society and a place that has been a long time marginalised. and, you will find the same problems in any european country you decide to venture into. you cannot divorce the artists' experience from their music and to deny that race is an issue for this music is well, frankly, weird. why the dismissiveness towards this subject? would you look at a piece of art without wondering about its social and historical context, would you read a book and take it only at face value? i know many people on the list feel this subject has been talked to death, but it hasn't. it is still relevant and unresolved. how can you say you have no need to understand problems of the US, they are our problems too and the cultural and policitical and economic hegemonies of the US run the entire world. do you want us to be programmed and passive forever? there, i've had my say, criticise if you will. N -Original Message- From: Berislav Oremus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 313@hyperreal.org <313@hyperreal.org> Date: 09 February 2002 07:07 Subject: Re: [313] Black techno artists With no disrespect intended (I really love your music and your contributions to the list), I think a lot of Europeans have trouble relating to racial problems in the US this is so offtopic again, but im asking my self how we europeans cant understand a racial problem in us, and again everything we do (in smaller countreys) is so not democratic and we always live on some teritory of economic sanctions, but we have to understand a rical problem in US. im confused i have a very big respect for black artist, and realy i dont have any problems with black or white. but i dont have any need to understand problems in US, at the same time that somebody from US have no need to understand problems that we have, or we had and lets take that off this list... music learnd me to be tolerant b. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Black techno artists
at the risk of being slated, how can so many people remove the context of this music. it comes from a society and a place that has been a long time marginalised. and, you will find the same problems in any european country you decide to venture into. you cannot divorce the artists' experience from their music and to deny that race is an issue for this music is well, frankly, weird. why the dismissiveness towards this subject? would you look at a piece of art without wondering about its social and historical context, would you read a book and take it only at face value? i know many people on the list feel this subject has been talked to death, but it hasn't. it is still relevant and unresolved. how can you say you have no need to understand problems of the US, they are our problems too and the cultural and policitical and economic hegemonies of the US run the entire world. do you want us to be programmed and passive forever? there, i've had my say, criticise if you will. N -Original Message- From: Berislav Oremus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 313@hyperreal.org <313@hyperreal.org> Date: 09 February 2002 07:07 Subject: Re: [313] Black techno artists > >> >> With no disrespect intended (I really love your music and your >contributions >> to the list), I think a lot of Europeans have trouble relating to racial >> problems in the US > >this is so offtopic again, but im asking my self how we europeans cant >understand a racial problem in us, and again everything we do (in smaller >countreys) is so not democratic and we always live on some teritory of >economic sanctions, but we have to understand a rical problem in US. im >confused > >i have a very big respect for black artist, and realy i dont have any >problems with black or white. >but i dont have any need to understand problems in US, at the same time that >somebody from US have no need to understand problems that we have, or we >had > >and lets take that off this list... music learnd me to be tolerant > > >b. > > >- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Black techno artists
- Original Message - From: "Berislav Oremus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 2:06 AM Subject: Re: [313] Black techno artists > > > > > With no disrespect intended (I really love your music and your > contributions > > to the list), I think a lot of Europeans have trouble relating to racial > > problems in the US > > this is so offtopic again, but im asking my self how we europeans cant > understand a racial problem in us, and again everything we do (in smaller > countreys) is so not democratic and we always live on some teritory of > economic sanctions, but we have to understand a rical problem in US. im > confused > > i have a very big respect for black artist, and realy i dont have any > problems with black or white. > but i dont have any need to understand problems in US, at the same time that > somebody from US have no need to understand problems that we have, or we > had > > and lets take that off this list... music learnd me to be tolerant The only reason I'm not taking this off list, is b/c I know how racial threads on 313 spiral. I am feeling every word that you're saying in terms of US imperialism abroad, but what I think a lot of Europeans (and color-blind Americans) have trouble seeing is that the history of oppression in America *to its own people* is still a living factor here (as witnessed by too man examples to cite). This is clearly not the right forum to go into a history of race relations in the US, but I just wanted to clarify my point, that engrained capitalistic-patriarchal-white supremasist societal forces (as Bell Hooks would have it - and I happen to think she's right) are very different than white supremacist attitudes *in the specific*. These would be the same societal forces encouraging US imperialism abroad. Black History month is a recognition of a lineage of historical oppression in the US (and the triumphs that overcome these forces) that is still not dead - and it has a critical value to many citizens concerned with the reversal of these wrongs. We should respect that for what it is - regardless of how poorly I may have outlined its importance. The reason why I specifically pinpointed Europeans is because race relations (although still problematic) in Europe, do not operate in the same way that they do in the US, and since this list is mostly Euro-American I commented as such. I'd be glad to go into more detail off-list if anyone doubts the differences between American and European race realtions. Sorry to be so Americocentric with this post, but it's (to my knowledge) the only place where Black History month is acknowledged (other than Canada???), and I think awareness of all that the symbolism of this calendrial occurence means should be amplified, not censored. And yes, music can be an incredibly powerful force in teaching tollerance, but this is at an individual level, which is so much different than understanding the societal forces that come to bear on the racially disenfranchised in the US, or imperialistic forces abroad. Tristan -- http://www.mp313.com <- Music http://www.metrotechno.net <- DC techno + more http://www.metatrackstudios.com <- DC DJ/Production studios http://phonopsia.tripod.com <- Hub [EMAIL PROTECTED] <- email <- AOL Instant Messenger - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Black techno artists
Hello Tristan! First of all I don't want to start a mess or something! Really not! I didn't knew about the celebration month for African-American history. Maybe I'm a dreamer but I also hope that there will be a color-blind utopia. I just was scared about another senseless discussion about which "color" is doing the better music. I remember a discussion some months ago. Somebody posted that real 313 related music should not be produced by white people. I don't want to read such messages anymore! Sorry if anybody feels angry about it! Arne > Subject: Re: [313] Black techno artists > > > > Again: > > Is it really a question of the colour of the skin? This was discussed > before. > > Arne, > > With no disrespect intended (I really love your music and your contributions > to the list), I think a lot of Europeans have trouble relating to racial > problems in the US (well, many Americans still believe in a color-blind > uptopia too). Even some critical race theorists posit a future in which we > can look *beyond* the color of one's skin (and this doesn't mean ignoring > it). But at the moment, at least in America, this remains a utopian vision > and not a reality. Case in point: racial injustice is still so pronounced in > the US (and the evidence is still very clear today) that we have a month > dedicated to celebration of African-American history, and more intensive > educational focus on that neglected perspective on American and global > history. So without re-hashing the debate about whether or not race is or > should be an issue still in the US (or on this list), I would hope we could > at least pay respect to Gerald's idea that we could recognize current > influential African-American electronic music producers/DJs. It's a timely > topic. Titonton's a great example! ...and like Gerald said, "how about > Europe"? I for one, wouldn't know the color of a lot of European producer's > skin to even comment. > > Tristan > -- > http://www.mp313.com <- Music > http://www.metrotechno.net <- DC techno + more > http://www.metatrackstudios.com <- DC DJ/Production studios > http://phonopsia.tripod.com <- Hub > [EMAIL PROTECTED] <- email > <- AOL Instant Messenger > Arne Weinberg KEYNOTE Rec. formerly known as GROUND ZERO Rec. / STARBABY Rec. *** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Black techno artists
> > With no disrespect intended (I really love your music and your contributions > to the list), I think a lot of Europeans have trouble relating to racial > problems in the US this is so offtopic again, but im asking my self how we europeans cant understand a racial problem in us, and again everything we do (in smaller countreys) is so not democratic and we always live on some teritory of economic sanctions, but we have to understand a rical problem in US. im confused i have a very big respect for black artist, and realy i dont have any problems with black or white. but i dont have any need to understand problems in US, at the same time that somebody from US have no need to understand problems that we have, or we had and lets take that off this list... music learnd me to be tolerant b. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Black techno artists
- Original Message - From: "Arne Weinberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <313@hyperreal.org> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [313] Black techno artists > Again: > Is it really a question of the colour of the skin? This was discussed before. Arne, With no disrespect intended (I really love your music and your contributions to the list), I think a lot of Europeans have trouble relating to racial problems in the US (well, many Americans still believe in a color-blind uptopia too). Even some critical race theorists posit a future in which we can look *beyond* the color of one's skin (and this doesn't mean ignoring it). But at the moment, at least in America, this remains a utopian vision and not a reality. Case in point: racial injustice is still so pronounced in the US (and the evidence is still very clear today) that we have a month dedicated to celebration of African-American history, and more intensive educational focus on that neglected perspective on American and global history. So without re-hashing the debate about whether or not race is or should be an issue still in the US (or on this list), I would hope we could at least pay respect to Gerald's idea that we could recognize current influential African-American electronic music producers/DJs. It's a timely topic. Titonton's a great example! ...and like Gerald said, "how about Europe"? I for one, wouldn't know the color of a lot of European producer's skin to even comment. Tristan -- http://www.mp313.com <- Music http://www.metrotechno.net <- DC techno + more http://www.metatrackstudios.com <- DC DJ/Production studios http://phonopsia.tripod.com <- Hub [EMAIL PROTECTED] <- email <- AOL Instant Messenger - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Black techno artists
Again: Is it really a question of the colour of the skin? This was discussed before. Cheers, Arne Gerald schrieb: > Figured since it's Black History Month... > > Just wanted to hear about Black artists and their influence on the music > we all know and love TECHNO. Now we all know about the role a few > Detroiter's had in the beginning. I'm more interested in hearing about > more recent influences. Guys like Titonton Duvante, and Charles Noel > come to mind. How about Europe? > Anyone...? > > G > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Arne Weinberg KEYNOTE Rec. formerly known as GROUND ZERO Rec. / STARBABY Rec. *** - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[313] Black techno artists
Figured since it's Black History Month... Just wanted to hear about Black artists and their influence on the music we all know and love TECHNO. Now we all know about the role a few Detroiter's had in the beginning. I'm more interested in hearing about more recent influences. Guys like Titonton Duvante, and Charles Noel come to mind. How about Europe? Anyone...? G - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
