Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
Only old ones. On 6 Feb 2007, at 15:37, robin wrote: No one got any new tunes then? ;) robin...
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
gosh tom, thats really terrible. (really) - Original Message - From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 3:34 PM Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! poor white people! theyre at such a disadvantage here. tom On 2/5/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually the UK group they bought it from maintains some of the properties, and some of the rights. The deal was a steal, and alot of people were upset about it because it wasn't the highest offer. Also you can't compare poor having nothing Indians with anyone else in north American, because although they are on reservations, they have rights that supercede Americans. Any reservation can prop up a wooden shed and shove some slot machines inside of there, such as the case of Soaring Eagle Casino, on the Isabella Reservation of Mt Plesant, Michigan. I can't put slot machines in my garage and let the neighbors come over and play, the local police would put the smack down on me in a heartbeat. ALSO, they don't have to respect our Labor Laws, and they don't. You get injured on the job, they shoo you right out the door, and get the next poor soul in. Plus I am quite sure they do not pay the same taxes as everyone else. On top of it, they are protected by State Police, and an entire federal gov't. Now you can say they would rather be their own country, but don't say they rose up from nothing like everyone else. Because no other group in the world has those kind of circumstances. Have a Nice Day, Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 8:00 PM Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! Tom - the Seminoles, as a whole, never signed a peace treaty. Also, they were not all removed from the Florida swamps. They were in poverty but from that they have sprung up to become probably the richest First Nations people in the entire US. And they own the Hard Rock Cafe chain. Their current revenue is around $1 billion per year. It's thought that each tribe member earns about $7,000 per month just from tribal revenue (casinos provide most of it). Because they own the Hard Rock Cafes they also own everything inside which includes all of the valued memorabilia - mostly that of white culture. Means they've become a museum of sorts of white culture just as our museums own their artifacts. An interesting turn of the tables. Yes, the US government was merciless with the Seminole but look into where they are today and you'll see that they're doing better than most white middle class communities. That was my point. Since this is OT I'll end it there. MEK Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 02/05/2007 11:31:58 AM: On 2/5/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You should read the entire article you posted: i did. the end of the second seminole war was like this: Colonel Worth recommended early in 1842 that the remaining Seminoles be left in peace if they would stay in southern Florida. Worth eventually received authorization to leave the remaining Seminoles on an informal reservation in southwestern Florida, and to declare an end to the war on a date of his choosing. also: Worth returned to Florida at the beginning of November 1842. He soon decided that Tiger Tail and Otiarche had had taken too long to make up their minds on what to do, and ordered that they be brought in. Tiger Tail was so ill that he had to be carried on a litter, and he died in New Orleans waiting for transportation to the Indian territory. The other Indians in northern Florida were also captured and sent west. By April 1843 only one regiment, the Eighth Infantry, was still in Florida. In November 1843 Worth reported that the only Indians left in Florida were 42 Seminole warriors, 33 Mikasukis, 10 Creeks and 10 Tallahassees, with women and children bringing the total to about 300. Worth also stated that these Indians were all living on the reservation and were no longer a threat to the white population of Florida.[66] 42 seminole warriors all on the reservation? doesnt sound too fun to me! tom Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection.
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
Girl Talk! He rox! Fun DJ. On 06/02/2007, at 3:43 AM, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. wrote: On 2/5/07, Joel Gajewski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Honestly, I am still amazed that there is a Hard Rock Cafe in Detroit. It may seem trivial, but it is nice to see Detroit with the staple attractions of other cities. pittsburgh has one now, i think theyre just giving them away. i challenge you guys to name 10 pop music artists from pittsburgh. dont count jazz since hard rock doesnt. tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
Alright, y'all convinced me. Any recommendations for places to stay that can be booked now? David Powers wrote: There will be a 22-hour party at Buzz Bar this year... at which I'll be playing... should be a hot party. Most people I know agreed that Agave was the highlight party of last year. Not all the mixing was spectacular (though appendics shuffle and ryan elliot were good I think, it's all a bit fuzzy though), but drinking champaigne and mojitos in the sunlight at 8 am and being surrounded by friends all smiling and dancing like mad was just a classic moment... I'm looking for the Buzz Bar party to be the sequel for 2007. On a side note, I wonder how many years it will be before I finally get to play the fest, I may have missed my chance, as Blazaebla (local Detroit label) had some artists performing there last year, and I released with them just recently. Had I been a year earlier I would have been in luck. Although, I played at three parties last year and it was really fun, I guess playing the festival proper isn't necessarily going to be a better experience than playing the parties. ~David On 2/5/07, Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: tie afterparties to the fest is my idea from last year . . . although with the fair number of lame-o party producers in town it's bound to be a difficult process . . . but there are cool ones too like te Fi-Nite guys, Organic, the Buzz Bar, etc. just to name some that have passed my rigorous quality assurance testing . . . And Cannon-whatever. Whoever they are . . . : fh - The Detroit News article below has way more info than the Freep article: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070202/ENT01/702020402/1033 Much better sound - Funktion 1. They've been planning for a long time. Partial lineup out Feb 15. Beatport stage. New stage facing the river where the Music Institute tent used to be. Maybe no more underground stage. One stage with only Detroit artists (Yeah!). Tickets probably $40 for the weekend. Tie after parties to the fest. I'm in. Cheers! _ Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger. http://get.live.com/messenger/overview
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
On 2/6/07, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Girl Talk! He rox! Fun DJ. i couldnt disagree more vehemently. he makes me feel ill. in fact, that guy is a tool and is one of the things i hate more about pittsburgh's hipster music scene. tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
i'm confused. where does girl talk come in to the equation? On 06/02/07, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/6/07, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Girl Talk! He rox! Fun DJ. i couldnt disagree more vehemently. he makes me feel ill. in fact, that guy is a tool and is one of the things i hate more about pittsburgh's hipster music scene. tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
Tom wrote: pittsburgh has one now, i think theyre just giving them away. i challenge you guys to name 10 pop music artists from pittsburgh. dont count jazz since hard rock doesnt. On Feb 6, 2007, at 9:45, Aidan O'Doherty wrote: i'm confused. where does girl talk come in to the equation? On 06/02/07, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/6/07, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Girl Talk! He rox! Fun DJ. i couldnt disagree more vehemently. he makes me feel ill. in fact, that guy is a tool and is one of the things i hate more about pittsburgh's hipster music scene. tom -- matt kane's brain http://hydrogenproject.com aim - mkbatwerk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
he's from pittsburgh, the only reply to my half jesting challenge to name any pop artists from pittsburgh in the discussion about hard rock cafe! to On 2/6/07, Aidan O'Doherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i'm confused. where does girl talk come in to the equation? On 06/02/07, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/6/07, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Girl Talk! He rox! Fun DJ. i couldnt disagree more vehemently. he makes me feel ill. in fact, that guy is a tool and is one of the things i hate more about pittsburgh's hipster music scene. tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
No one got any new tunes then? ;) robin... Thomas D. Cox, Jr. wrote: he's from pittsburgh, the only reply to my half jesting challenge to name any pop artists from pittsburgh in the discussion about hard rock cafe! to On 2/6/07, Aidan O'Doherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i'm confused. where does girl talk come in to the equation? On 06/02/07, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2/6/07, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Girl Talk! He rox! Fun DJ. i couldnt disagree more vehemently. he makes me feel ill. in fact, that guy is a tool and is one of the things i hate more about pittsburgh's hipster music scene. tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
Tom, we are sending over Def Leppard now, you can have em... m On 6 Feb 2007, at 15:35, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. wrote: he's from pittsburgh, the only reply to my half jesting challenge to name any pop artists from pittsburgh in the discussion about hard rock cafe! to
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
Woah, I didn't mean to stir the pot of Native American gaming and such. I really don't consider Hard Rock an attraction personally, but people on vacation tend to gravitate toward them and buy the t-shirt. As a kid, I always thought the one in Chicago was cool, but soon realized that the food was better at Ed Debevick's. :p J - Original Message From: robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, February 5, 2007 10:47:40 AM Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! I don't understand the point of those Hard Rock cafe chain things. Like a themed upmarket mcdonalds init? Why's that considered an attraction? OT I know. robin... Thomas D. Cox, Jr. wrote: On 2/5/07, Joel Gajewski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Honestly, I am still amazed that there is a Hard Rock Cafe in Detroit. It may seem trivial, but it is nice to see Detroit with the staple attractions of other cities. pittsburgh has one now, i think theyre just giving them away. i challenge you guys to name 10 pop music artists from pittsburgh. dont count jazz since hard rock doesnt. tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
uh-oh... tom and i agree on something again! On Tue, 6 Feb 2007, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. wrote: On 2/6/07, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Girl Talk! He rox! Fun DJ. i couldnt disagree more vehemently. he makes me feel ill. in fact, that guy is a tool and is one of the things i hate more about pittsburgh's hipster music scene. tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
i like him already - Original Message - From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 8:18 AM Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! On 2/6/07, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Girl Talk! He rox! Fun DJ. i couldnt disagree more vehemently. he makes me feel ill. in fact, that guy is a tool and is one of the things i hate more about pittsburgh's hipster music scene. tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
On 2/6/07, /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i like him already im sure youd love it, its absolutely awful. tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
I don't mind fun, hipster stuff. He comes into the equation as being from Pittsburgh - Sienna Miller's favourite city, not. ;) On 07/02/2007, at 12:18 AM, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. wrote: On 2/6/07, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Girl Talk! He rox! Fun DJ. i couldnt disagree more vehemently. he makes me feel ill. in fact, that guy is a tool and is one of the things i hate more about pittsburgh's hipster music scene. tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
On 2/6/07, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He comes into the equation as being from Pittsburgh - Sienna Miller's favourite city, not. ;) ill personally sock sienna miller if i ever see her. tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
she'd probably beat you down :) - Original Message - From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 6:35 PM Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! On 2/6/07, Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He comes into the equation as being from Pittsburgh - Sienna Miller's favourite city, not. ;) ill personally sock sienna miller if i ever see her. tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
By no means am I saying death to Detroit. I think that it is great that new businesses are investing in Downtown. I hope that it can continue to grow. Honestly, I am still amazed that there is a Hard Rock Cafe in Detroit. It may seem trivial, but it is nice to see Detroit with the staple attractions of other cities. I do miss the character of Detroit, just not the weather. :p - Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Joel Gajewski [EMAIL PROTECTED]; robin [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Aidan O'Doherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Friday, February 2, 2007 11:09:35 AM Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! Well, in regards to tourism, Detroit is changing. Having worked in economic development (more on the creative marketing end), progress is always slow. However, Detroit is making progress. There are signs all over the place from grass roots organizations like Detroit Synergy to the techno artists we love to the big corporations like General Motors and Compuware locating to Detroit to the redevelopment of the Book Cadillac building. Change is there and I think it's the younger generations that will continue to inspire the bigger pocketbooks to invest in the community. Detroit is also rebranding itself, focusing on that younger spirit. See: http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104STORY=/www/story/01-31-2007/0004517248EDATE= I also like the fact thatthe Shrinking Cities exhibit has finally made its way here. These are important events that stir change, much like the first DEMF. Let's continue on that positive vibe!!! -- Original message -- From: Joel Gajewski [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yeah, I don't think those numbers were ever accurate. I remember parking at the Ren Cen, which is next door to Hart Plaza, all three days the first two years. If there were an extra 1 million people in Detroit, a city of about 1million, I think that parking would have been a bit tighter. Thinking about Detroit's tourism, or lack thereof, it's never been a strong point. Almost everyone that meet that has never lived there, refers to it as the armpit of the universe. :( As a former local, it has a lot of character, but I can see how visits might be scared off. If I remember correctly, wasn't Derrick scrambling at the end to confirm those artists? I don't remember any of the fests being particularly well-sorted in advance of the weekend. *shrugs Joel - Original Message From: robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Aidan O'Doherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Friday, February 2, 2007 5:08:49 AM Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! Aidan O'Doherty wrote: DEMF 2000: 1.1 to 1.5 million (over-estimated) DEMF 2001: 1.7 million DEMF 2002: 1.7 million Movement 2003: 630,000 Movement 2004: 150,000 Fuse-In 2005: 44,920 Hmmm I'm not sure how accurate any of those figures is, apart from maybe the last one where they had control over who came in and out of the site. robin...
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
On 2/5/07, Joel Gajewski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Honestly, I am still amazed that there is a Hard Rock Cafe in Detroit. It may seem trivial, but it is nice to see Detroit with the staple attractions of other cities. pittsburgh has one now, i think theyre just giving them away. i challenge you guys to name 10 pop music artists from pittsburgh. dont count jazz since hard rock doesnt. tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
I don't understand the point of those Hard Rock cafe chain things. Like a themed upmarket mcdonalds init? Why's that considered an attraction? OT I know. robin... Thomas D. Cox, Jr. wrote: On 2/5/07, Joel Gajewski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Honestly, I am still amazed that there is a Hard Rock Cafe in Detroit. It may seem trivial, but it is nice to see Detroit with the staple attractions of other cities. pittsburgh has one now, i think theyre just giving them away. i challenge you guys to name 10 pop music artists from pittsburgh. dont count jazz since hard rock doesnt. tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
On 2/5/07, robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't understand the point of those Hard Rock cafe chain things. Like a themed upmarket mcdonalds init? Why's that considered an attraction? well the idea can be cool: a spot to eat food in with lots of music memorabilia, especially stuff related to local music. in practice, the food is not that great (though not as bad as some people make it out to be. its burgers and stuff like that, not a 4 star restaurant), its expensive, the music is played too loud making conversation annoying at best impossible at worst, and in pittsburgh's case the local music that is popular is classic rock and hair metal. and not in an ironic manner. so you can guess what kind of stuff is present. though the angus young suit and gibson sg was pretty ill. i went once with my son, he thought it was cool but he's 5. tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
I just saw something on tv the other day about the Seminole nation (Florida Indian tribe) owning the Hard Rock Cafe chain. Just checked in on wikipedia - yep, they bought it at the end of last year. Plus, the Seminoles never signed a peace treaty with the US Gov. - means they were never all beaten and subjected to reservations. Probably the richest tribe of First Nations people. MEK Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 02/05/2007 10:51:13 AM: On 2/5/07, robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't understand the point of those Hard Rock cafe chain things. Like a themed upmarket mcdonalds init? Why's that considered an attraction? well the idea can be cool: a spot to eat food in with lots of music memorabilia, especially stuff related to local music. in practice, the food is not that great (though not as bad as some people make it out to be. its burgers and stuff like that, not a 4 star restaurant), its expensive, the music is played too loud making conversation annoying at best impossible at worst, and in pittsburgh's case the local music that is popular is classic rock and hair metal. and not in an ironic manner. so you can guess what kind of stuff is present. though the angus young suit and gibson sg was pretty ill. i went once with my son, he thought it was cool but he's 5. tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
On 2/5/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just saw something on tv the other day about the Seminole nation (Florida Indian tribe) owning the Hard Rock Cafe chain. Just checked in on wikipedia - yep, they bought it at the end of last year. Plus, the Seminoles never signed a peace treaty with the US Gov. - means they were never all beaten and subjected to reservations. Probably the richest tribe of First Nations people. not sure about that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Payne%27s_Landing tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
Wy OT (unless this somehow comes around to Mad Mike's ancestors) Right, but the entire tribe never surrendered. Some did and some did not. You should read the entire article you posted: The situation grew worse. In August 1835 Private Kinsley Dalton (for whom Dalton, Georgia is named) was killed by Seminoles as he was carrying the mail from Fort Brooke to Fort King. In November Chief Charley Emathla, wanting no part of a war, led his people towards Fort Brooke where they were to board ships to go west. This was considered a betrayal by other Seminoles. Osceola met Charlie Emathla on the trail and killed him.[8] The Second Seminole War was beginning. the US gov gave up because they were losing too many soldiers fighting the guerrilla warfare that the Seminoles. One reason that the tribe was attacked by the government for was that they took in runaway black slaves that fled into the swamps. MEK Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 02/05/2007 11:08:20 AM: On 2/5/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just saw something on tv the other day about the Seminole nation (Florida Indian tribe) owning the Hard Rock Cafe chain. Just checked in on wikipedia - yep, they bought it at the end of last year. Plus, the Seminoles never signed a peace treaty with the US Gov. - means they were never all beaten and subjected to reservations. Probably the richest tribe of First Nations people. not sure about that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Payne%27s_Landing tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
On 2/5/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You should read the entire article you posted: i did. the end of the second seminole war was like this: Colonel Worth recommended early in 1842 that the remaining Seminoles be left in peace if they would stay in southern Florida. Worth eventually received authorization to leave the remaining Seminoles on an informal reservation in southwestern Florida, and to declare an end to the war on a date of his choosing. also: Worth returned to Florida at the beginning of November 1842. He soon decided that Tiger Tail and Otiarche had had taken too long to make up their minds on what to do, and ordered that they be brought in. Tiger Tail was so ill that he had to be carried on a litter, and he died in New Orleans waiting for transportation to the Indian territory. The other Indians in northern Florida were also captured and sent west. By April 1843 only one regiment, the Eighth Infantry, was still in Florida. In November 1843 Worth reported that the only Indians left in Florida were 42 Seminole warriors, 33 Mikasukis, 10 Creeks and 10 Tallahassees, with women and children bringing the total to about 300. Worth also stated that these Indians were all living on the reservation and were no longer a threat to the white population of Florida.[66] 42 seminole warriors all on the reservation? doesnt sound too fun to me! tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
Tom - the Seminoles, as a whole, never signed a peace treaty. Also, they were not all removed from the Florida swamps. They were in poverty but from that they have sprung up to become probably the richest First Nations people in the entire US. And they own the Hard Rock Cafe chain. Their current revenue is around $1 billion per year. It's thought that each tribe member earns about $7,000 per month just from tribal revenue (casinos provide most of it). Because they own the Hard Rock Cafes they also own everything inside which includes all of the valued memorabilia - mostly that of white culture. Means they've become a museum of sorts of white culture just as our museums own their artifacts. An interesting turn of the tables. Yes, the US government was merciless with the Seminole but look into where they are today and you'll see that they're doing better than most white middle class communities. That was my point. Since this is OT I'll end it there. MEK Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 02/05/2007 11:31:58 AM: On 2/5/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You should read the entire article you posted: i did. the end of the second seminole war was like this: Colonel Worth recommended early in 1842 that the remaining Seminoles be left in peace if they would stay in southern Florida. Worth eventually received authorization to leave the remaining Seminoles on an informal reservation in southwestern Florida, and to declare an end to the war on a date of his choosing. also: Worth returned to Florida at the beginning of November 1842. He soon decided that Tiger Tail and Otiarche had had taken too long to make up their minds on what to do, and ordered that they be brought in. Tiger Tail was so ill that he had to be carried on a litter, and he died in New Orleans waiting for transportation to the Indian territory. The other Indians in northern Florida were also captured and sent west. By April 1843 only one regiment, the Eighth Infantry, was still in Florida. In November 1843 Worth reported that the only Indians left in Florida were 42 Seminole warriors, 33 Mikasukis, 10 Creeks and 10 Tallahassees, with women and children bringing the total to about 300. Worth also stated that these Indians were all living on the reservation and were no longer a threat to the white population of Florida.[66] 42 seminole warriors all on the reservation? doesnt sound too fun to me! tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
poor white people! theyre at such a disadvantage here. tom On 2/5/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually the UK group they bought it from maintains some of the properties, and some of the rights. The deal was a steal, and alot of people were upset about it because it wasn't the highest offer. Also you can't compare poor having nothing Indians with anyone else in north American, because although they are on reservations, they have rights that supercede Americans. Any reservation can prop up a wooden shed and shove some slot machines inside of there, such as the case of Soaring Eagle Casino, on the Isabella Reservation of Mt Plesant, Michigan. I can't put slot machines in my garage and let the neighbors come over and play, the local police would put the smack down on me in a heartbeat. ALSO, they don't have to respect our Labor Laws, and they don't. You get injured on the job, they shoo you right out the door, and get the next poor soul in. Plus I am quite sure they do not pay the same taxes as everyone else. On top of it, they are protected by State Police, and an entire federal gov't. Now you can say they would rather be their own country, but don't say they rose up from nothing like everyone else. Because no other group in the world has those kind of circumstances. Have a Nice Day, Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 8:00 PM Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! Tom - the Seminoles, as a whole, never signed a peace treaty. Also, they were not all removed from the Florida swamps. They were in poverty but from that they have sprung up to become probably the richest First Nations people in the entire US. And they own the Hard Rock Cafe chain. Their current revenue is around $1 billion per year. It's thought that each tribe member earns about $7,000 per month just from tribal revenue (casinos provide most of it). Because they own the Hard Rock Cafes they also own everything inside which includes all of the valued memorabilia - mostly that of white culture. Means they've become a museum of sorts of white culture just as our museums own their artifacts. An interesting turn of the tables. Yes, the US government was merciless with the Seminole but look into where they are today and you'll see that they're doing better than most white middle class communities. That was my point. Since this is OT I'll end it there. MEK Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 02/05/2007 11:31:58 AM: On 2/5/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You should read the entire article you posted: i did. the end of the second seminole war was like this: Colonel Worth recommended early in 1842 that the remaining Seminoles be left in peace if they would stay in southern Florida. Worth eventually received authorization to leave the remaining Seminoles on an informal reservation in southwestern Florida, and to declare an end to the war on a date of his choosing. also: Worth returned to Florida at the beginning of November 1842. He soon decided that Tiger Tail and Otiarche had had taken too long to make up their minds on what to do, and ordered that they be brought in. Tiger Tail was so ill that he had to be carried on a litter, and he died in New Orleans waiting for transportation to the Indian territory. The other Indians in northern Florida were also captured and sent west. By April 1843 only one regiment, the Eighth Infantry, was still in Florida. In November 1843 Worth reported that the only Indians left in Florida were 42 Seminole warriors, 33 Mikasukis, 10 Creeks and 10 Tallahassees, with women and children bringing the total to about 300. Worth also stated that these Indians were all living on the reservation and were no longer a threat to the white population of Florida.[66] 42 seminole warriors all on the reservation? doesnt sound too fun to me! tom Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection.
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
The crowd counts before 2005 were clearly based on conjecture. I've run a lot of events, organized rallies, done crowd counts, worked with venue managements, etc. Think about it. How big is a typical basketball/hockey arena? 20,000 or so. Baseball and football range from 30,000 to 75,000. Could you imagine really putting 20,000 people in Hart Plaza at once? Not me. Look, the numbers are of passing interest but not what's historically and currently important about the festival. What's important is that enough people show up to overflow Hart Plaza every year. And while I think the musical quality has been on a slow decline the last several years, there are always enough great moments and even sets to make it all worthwhile. I'm still grinning about Little Louie playing Stevie Wonder at just exactly the right moment on that blistering hot afternoon last year :) fh - DEMF 2000: 1.1 to 1.5 million (over-estimated) DEMF 2001: 1.7 million DEMF 2002: 1.7 million Movement 2003: 630,000 Movement 2004: 150,000 Fuse-In 2005: 44,920 On 02/02/07, Aidan O'Doherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: for 'enhancements' read increased admission fee. if an event attracted over a people first time around, surely sponsors would be throwing money at it? how could something so good go so horribly wrong? aidan On 02/02/07, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: enhancements, eh? is this new coke?!??!?! tom On 2/1/07, /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070131/ENT04/70131052/0/ENT04 - Original Message - From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 10:49 PM Subject: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! so whats going on? they supposedly did alright last year and have had since june to get it together. its now february, the festival is under 5 months away and nothing yet. WHY tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
tie afterparties to the fest is my idea from last year . . . although with the fair number of lame-o party producers in town it's bound to be a difficult process . . . but there are cool ones too like te Fi-Nite guys, Organic, the Buzz Bar, etc. just to name some that have passed my rigorous quality assurance testing . . . And Cannon-whatever. Whoever they are . . . : fh - The Detroit News article below has way more info than the Freep article: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070202/ENT01/702020402/1033 Much better sound - Funktion 1. They've been planning for a long time. Partial lineup out Feb 15. Beatport stage. New stage facing the river where the Music Institute tent used to be. Maybe no more underground stage. One stage with only Detroit artists (Yeah!). Tickets probably $40 for the weekend. Tie after parties to the fest. I'm in. Cheers! _ Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger. http://get.live.com/messenger/overview
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
I will believe the Book Cadillac is really back only when they finally open the doors and admit paying customers and lessees. But it was good to see actual guys in actual hard hats -inside- the building for a change in those newspaper stories last fall. I stayed in the old BC when it was run by the city in the summer of 1983, a strange experience to be sure especially since it was my first time in Detroit (we were there for a conference). What did we know, although I well remember going over to Greektown we didn't even go to Lafayette Coney Island. How wrong was that! Detroit was a pretty different place then. I remember it being very hot (August) and depressing but (true to form for the Music City) there was one great band we saw which really impressed me but I can't remember the name, I want to say Radiators but they're from New Orleans. Anyway, they played a kind of funk-jazz version of Motown style stuff that was quite unique. I have felt for a long time that when the BC reopens it means Detroit really is on the way back. I'm a big fan of that building. fh - Well, in regards to tourism, Detroit is changing. Having worked in economic development (more on the creative marketing end), progress is always slow. However, Detroit is making progress. There are signs all over the place from grass roots organizations like Detroit Synergy to the techno artists we love to the big corporations like General Motors and Compuware locating to Detroit to the redevelopment of the Book Cadillac building. Change is there and I think it's the younger generations that will continue to inspire the bigger pocketbooks to invest in the community. Detroit is also rebranding itself, focusing on that younger spirit. See: http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi- bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104STORY=/www/story/01-31-2007/0004517248EDATE I also like the fact thatthe Shrinking Cities exhibit has finally made its way here. These are important events that stir change, much like the first DEMF. Let's continue on that positive vibe!!! -- Original message -- From: Joel Gajewski [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yeah, I don't think those numbers were ever accurate. I remember parking at the Ren Cen, which is next door to Hart Plaza, all three days the first two years. If there were an extra 1 million people in Detroit, a city of about 1million, I think that parking would have been a bit tighter. Thinking about Detroit's tourism, or lack thereof, it's never been a strong point. Almost everyone that meet that has never lived there, refers to it as the armpit of the universe. :( As a former local, it has a lot of character, but I can see how visits might be scared off. If I remember correctly, wasn't Derrick scrambling at the end to confirm those artists? I don't remember any of the fests being particularly well-sorted in advance of the weekend. *shrugs Joel - Original Message From: robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Aidan O'Doherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Friday, February 2, 2007 5:08:49 AM Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! Aidan O'Doherty wrote: DEMF 2000: 1.1 to 1.5 million (over-estimated) DEMF 2001: 1.7 million DEMF 2002: 1.7 million Movement 2003: 630,000 Movement 2004: 150,000 Fuse-In 2005: 44,920 Hmmm I'm not sure how accurate any of those figures is, apart from maybe the last one where they had control over who came in and out of the site. robin...
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
There will be a 22-hour party at Buzz Bar this year... at which I'll be playing... should be a hot party. Most people I know agreed that Agave was the highlight party of last year. Not all the mixing was spectacular (though appendics shuffle and ryan elliot were good I think, it's all a bit fuzzy though), but drinking champaigne and mojitos in the sunlight at 8 am and being surrounded by friends all smiling and dancing like mad was just a classic moment... I'm looking for the Buzz Bar party to be the sequel for 2007. On a side note, I wonder how many years it will be before I finally get to play the fest, I may have missed my chance, as Blazaebla (local Detroit label) had some artists performing there last year, and I released with them just recently. Had I been a year earlier I would have been in luck. Although, I played at three parties last year and it was really fun, I guess playing the festival proper isn't necessarily going to be a better experience than playing the parties. ~David On 2/5/07, Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: tie afterparties to the fest is my idea from last year . . . although with the fair number of lame-o party producers in town it's bound to be a difficult process . . . but there are cool ones too like te Fi-Nite guys, Organic, the Buzz Bar, etc. just to name some that have passed my rigorous quality assurance testing . . . And Cannon-whatever. Whoever they are . . . : fh - The Detroit News article below has way more info than the Freep article: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070202/ENT01/702020402/1033 Much better sound - Funktion 1. They've been planning for a long time. Partial lineup out Feb 15. Beatport stage. New stage facing the river where the Music Institute tent used to be. Maybe no more underground stage. One stage with only Detroit artists (Yeah!). Tickets probably $40 for the weekend. Tie after parties to the fest. I'm in. Cheers! _ Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger. http://get.live.com/messenger/overview
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
Plus I am quite sure they do not pay the same taxes as everyone else. very wrong - Seminole individuals pay all the same taxes as you and I do the Seminole tribe itself does not there's a difference (the rest of my reply I've taken off-list) MEK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 02/05/2007 02:28:15 PM: Actually the UK group they bought it from maintains some of the properties, and some of the rights. The deal was a steal, and alot of people were upset about it because it wasn't the highest offer. Also you can't compare poor having nothing Indians with anyone else in north American, because although they are on reservations, they have rights that supercede Americans. Any reservation can prop up a wooden shed and shove some slot machines inside of there, such as the case of Soaring Eagle Casino, on the Isabella Reservation of Mt Plesant, Michigan. I can't put slot machines in my garage and let the neighbors come over and play, the local police would put the smack down on me in a heartbeat. ALSO, they don't have to respect our Labor Laws, and they don't. You get injured on the job, they shoo you right out the door, and get the next poor soul in. Plus I am quite sure they do not pay the same taxes as everyone else. On top of it, they are protected by State Police, and an entire federal gov't. Now you can say they would rather be their own country, but don't say they rose up from nothing like everyone else. Because no other group in the world has those kind of circum! stances. Have a Nice Day, Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 8:00 PM Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! Tom - the Seminoles, as a whole, never signed a peace treaty. Also, they were not all removed from the Florida swamps. They were in poverty but from that they have sprung up to become probably the richest First Nations people in the entire US. And they own the Hard Rock Cafe chain. Their current revenue is around $1 billion per year. It's thought that each tribe member earns about $7,000 per month just from tribal revenue (casinos provide most of it). Because they own the Hard Rock Cafes they also own everything inside which includes all of the valued memorabilia - mostly that of white culture. Means they've become a museum of sorts of white culture just as our museums own their artifacts. An interesting turn of the tables. Yes, the US government was merciless with the Seminole but look into where they are today and you'll see that they're doing better than most white middle class communities. That was my point. Since this is OT I'll end it there. MEK Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 02/05/2007 11:31:58 AM: On 2/5/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You should read the entire article you posted: i did. the end of the second seminole war was like this: Colonel Worth recommended early in 1842 that the remaining Seminoles be left in peace if they would stay in southern Florida. Worth eventually received authorization to leave the remaining Seminoles on an informal reservation in southwestern Florida, and to declare an end to the war on a date of his choosing. also: Worth returned to Florida at the beginning of November 1842. He soon decided that Tiger Tail and Otiarche had had taken too long to make up their minds on what to do, and ordered that they be brought in. Tiger Tail was so ill that he had to be carried on a litter, and he died in New Orleans waiting for transportation to the Indian territory. The other Indians in northern Florida were also captured and sent west. By April 1843 only one regiment, the Eighth Infantry, was still in Florida. In November 1843 Worth reported that the only Indians left in Florida were 42 Seminole warriors, 33 Mikasukis, 10 Creeks and 10 Tallahassees, with women and children bringing the total to about 300. Worth also stated that these Indians were all living on the reservation and were no longer a threat to the white population of Florida.[66] 42 seminole warriors all on the reservation? doesnt sound too fun to me! tom Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry- leading spam and email virus protection.
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
The Detroit News article below has way more info than the Freep article: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070202/ENT01/702020402/1033 Much better sound - Funktion 1. They've been planning for a long time. Partial lineup out Feb 15. Beatport stage. New stage facing the river where the Music Institute tent used to be. Maybe no more underground stage. One stage with only Detroit artists (Yeah!). Tickets probably $40 for the weekend. Tie after parties to the fest. I'm in. Cheers! _ Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger. http://get.live.com/messenger/overview
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070131/ENT04/70131052/0/ENT04 - Original Message - From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 10:49 PM Subject: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! so whats going on? they supposedly did alright last year and have had since june to get it together. its now february, the festival is under 5 months away and nothing yet. WHY tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
enhancements, eh? is this new coke?!??!?! tom On 2/1/07, /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070131/ENT04/70131052/0/ENT04 - Original Message - From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 10:49 PM Subject: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! so whats going on? they supposedly did alright last year and have had since june to get it together. its now february, the festival is under 5 months away and nothing yet. WHY tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
for 'enhancements' read increased admission fee. if an event attracted over a people first time around, surely sponsors would be throwing money at it? how could something so good go so horribly wrong? aidan On 02/02/07, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: enhancements, eh? is this new coke?!??!?! tom On 2/1/07, /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070131/ENT04/70131052/0/ENT04 - Original Message - From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 10:49 PM Subject: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! so whats going on? they supposedly did alright last year and have had since june to get it together. its now february, the festival is under 5 months away and nothing yet. WHY tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
DEMF 2000: 1.1 to 1.5 million (over-estimated) DEMF 2001: 1.7 million DEMF 2002: 1.7 million Movement 2003: 630,000 Movement 2004: 150,000 Fuse-In 2005: 44,920 On 02/02/07, Aidan O'Doherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: for 'enhancements' read increased admission fee. if an event attracted over a people first time around, surely sponsors would be throwing money at it? how could something so good go so horribly wrong? aidan On 02/02/07, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: enhancements, eh? is this new coke?!??!?! tom On 2/1/07, /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070131/ENT04/70131052/0/ENT04 - Original Message - From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 10:49 PM Subject: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! so whats going on? they supposedly did alright last year and have had since june to get it together. its now february, the festival is under 5 months away and nothing yet. WHY tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
Aidan O'Doherty wrote: DEMF 2000: 1.1 to 1.5 million (over-estimated) DEMF 2001: 1.7 million DEMF 2002: 1.7 million Movement 2003: 630,000 Movement 2004: 150,000 Fuse-In 2005: 44,920 Hmmm I'm not sure how accurate any of those figures is, apart from maybe the last one where they had control over who came in and out of the site. robin...
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
So what do people there recommend for any of us thinking of coming over? I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to finally drag myself out this year, dunno if it's going to be a big disappointment or if all the afterparties and other goings on will more than make up for any lameness at the main event? Aidan O'Doherty wrote: for 'enhancements' read increased admission fee. if an event attracted over a people first time around, surely sponsors would be throwing money at it? how could something so good go so horribly wrong? aidan On 02/02/07, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: enhancements, eh? is this new coke?!??!?! tom On 2/1/07, /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070131/ENT04/70131052/0/ENT04 - Original Message - From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 10:49 PM Subject: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! so whats going on? they supposedly did alright last year and have had since june to get it together. its now february, the festival is under 5 months away and nothing yet. WHY tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
i'm thinking of coming over this year too. i wish they'd sort this earlier in the year to allow overseas people organise travel plans properly too. robin... Matt Chester wrote: So what do people there recommend for any of us thinking of coming over? I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to finally drag myself out this year, dunno if it's going to be a big disappointment or if all the afterparties and other goings on will more than make up for any lameness at the main event?
RE: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
This is the main reason why I've never gone Robin. Unfortunately, some of us aren't able to drop everything on a month-to-six weeks notice and go to Detroit for a few days. Love to go, but that's the reality. -Original Message- From: robin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 February 2007 11:14 To: Matt Chester Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! i'm thinking of coming over this year too. i wish they'd sort this earlier in the year to allow overseas people organise travel plans properly too. robin... Matt Chester wrote: So what do people there recommend for any of us thinking of coming over? I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to finally drag myself out this year, dunno if it's going to be a big disappointment or if all the afterparties and other goings on will more than make up for any lameness at the main event?
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
I don't think tourism is a Detroit strongpoint. It's the only city I've ever been to where I couldn't find a postcard to send home. I didn't really look for one, but you don't usually have to. Shame really, as I'm sure the revenue from tourism would be a boon to the city. On 02/02/07, Odeluga, Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the main reason why I've never gone Robin. Unfortunately, some of us aren't able to drop everything on a month-to-six weeks notice and go to Detroit for a few days. Love to go, but that's the reality. -Original Message- From: robin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 February 2007 11:14 To: Matt Chester Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! i'm thinking of coming over this year too. i wish they'd sort this earlier in the year to allow overseas people organise travel plans properly too. robin... Matt Chester wrote: So what do people there recommend for any of us thinking of coming over? I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to finally drag myself out this year, dunno if it's going to be a big disappointment or if all the afterparties and other goings on will more than make up for any lameness at the main event?
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
if they got they're act together, then they'd have bigger influx of foreigners. surely they sould have been planning it the day the last event finished. lock down artists early. now is when line-up needs to be released. i probably wouldn't bother with main event, especially if the line-up bears any resemblance to last year's. wish i'd gone to the actual demfs. On 02/02/07, Odeluga, Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the main reason why I've never gone Robin. Unfortunately, some of us aren't able to drop everything on a month-to-six weeks notice and go to Detroit for a few days. Love to go, but that's the reality. -Original Message- From: robin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 February 2007 11:14 To: Matt Chester Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! i'm thinking of coming over this year too. i wish they'd sort this earlier in the year to allow overseas people organise travel plans properly too. robin... Matt Chester wrote: So what do people there recommend for any of us thinking of coming over? I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to finally drag myself out this year, dunno if it's going to be a big disappointment or if all the afterparties and other goings on will more than make up for any lameness at the main event?
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
hard to believe that a modern metropolis doesn't try to tap in to tourism. detroit has its selling points, doesn't it? On 02/02/07, Aidan O'Doherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if they got they're act together, then they'd have bigger influx of foreigners. surely they sould have been planning it the day the last event finished. lock down artists early. now is when line-up needs to be released. i probably wouldn't bother with main event, especially if the line-up bears any resemblance to last year's. wish i'd gone to the actual demfs. On 02/02/07, Odeluga, Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the main reason why I've never gone Robin. Unfortunately, some of us aren't able to drop everything on a month-to-six weeks notice and go to Detroit for a few days. Love to go, but that's the reality. -Original Message- From: robin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 February 2007 11:14 To: Matt Chester Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! i'm thinking of coming over this year too. i wish they'd sort this earlier in the year to allow overseas people organise travel plans properly too. robin... Matt Chester wrote: So what do people there recommend for any of us thinking of coming over? I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to finally drag myself out this year, dunno if it's going to be a big disappointment or if all the afterparties and other goings on will more than make up for any lameness at the main event?
RE: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
Is that a loaded question? ;-) -Original Message- From: Aidan O'Doherty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 February 2007 11:31 To: Odeluga, Ken Cc: robin; Matt Chester; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! hard to believe that a modern metropolis doesn't try to tap in to tourism. detroit has its selling points, doesn't it? On 02/02/07, Aidan O'Doherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if they got they're act together, then they'd have bigger influx of foreigners. surely they sould have been planning it the day the last event finished. lock down artists early. now is when line-up needs to be released. i probably wouldn't bother with main event, especially if the line-up bears any resemblance to last year's. wish i'd gone to the actual demfs. On 02/02/07, Odeluga, Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the main reason why I've never gone Robin. Unfortunately, some of us aren't able to drop everything on a month-to-six weeks notice and go to Detroit for a few days. Love to go, but that's the reality. -Original Message- From: robin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 February 2007 11:14 To: Matt Chester Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! i'm thinking of coming over this year too. i wish they'd sort this earlier in the year to allow overseas people organise travel plans properly too. robin... Matt Chester wrote: So what do people there recommend for any of us thinking of coming over? I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to finally drag myself out this year, dunno if it's going to be a big disappointment or if all the afterparties and other goings on will more than make up for any lameness at the main event?
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
Odeluga, Ken wrote: Is that a loaded question? ;-) :) I've been once before. I loved Detroit. There's a certain positivity about the regeneration of the city that I felt that kinda chimes with how the north of England felt when leaving behind the dark days of the 80s. How much of that is projection on my part I dunno. What I'm saying is that it'd be a shame for Detroit not to draw in more people from overseas to feel that just because events that have the ability to do so aren't timed correctly in their organisation. And before we go into dissing organisations etc (or even line ups) stop there. We've done that before, it's tired now. robin
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
it's not loaded, although i certainly wish i was. right now. three sheets to the wind. On 02/02/07, Odeluga, Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is that a loaded question? ;-) -Original Message- From: Aidan O'Doherty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 February 2007 11:31 To: Odeluga, Ken Cc: robin; Matt Chester; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! hard to believe that a modern metropolis doesn't try to tap in to tourism. detroit has its selling points, doesn't it? On 02/02/07, Aidan O'Doherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if they got they're act together, then they'd have bigger influx of foreigners. surely they sould have been planning it the day the last event finished. lock down artists early. now is when line-up needs to be released. i probably wouldn't bother with main event, especially if the line-up bears any resemblance to last year's. wish i'd gone to the actual demfs. On 02/02/07, Odeluga, Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the main reason why I've never gone Robin. Unfortunately, some of us aren't able to drop everything on a month-to-six weeks notice and go to Detroit for a few days. Love to go, but that's the reality. -Original Message- From: robin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 February 2007 11:14 To: Matt Chester Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! i'm thinking of coming over this year too. i wish they'd sort this earlier in the year to allow overseas people organise travel plans properly too. robin... Matt Chester wrote: So what do people there recommend for any of us thinking of coming over? I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to finally drag myself out this year, dunno if it's going to be a big disappointment or if all the afterparties and other goings on will more than make up for any lameness at the main event?
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
On 2/2/07, robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i'm thinking of coming over this year too. i wish they'd sort this earlier in the year to allow overseas people organise travel plans properly too. this is why im complaining! when i first started going there was lots more international heads because it was announced earlier. if they really do announce the info this month, im sure it will be worth coming for. i always have a darn good time! tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
All you lot foreigners: Every year since 2000, if you got on a plane the last weekend in May you'd have seen a huge, awesome show in Detroit. You'd shop at Submerge and Melodies and Memories, you'd visit the Heidelberg Project, you'd see Mike Huckaby DJ -- four or five times if you wanted -- and there'd be loads of great afterparties. And the Clique will be serving grits on the side. It's by no means ideal that you don't get a load of advance notice, but I would think that a pattern has been established: There will be a festival, it will be awesome. My favorite festival years have been when the most people from outside the country have showed up.
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
Even if there isn't a festival, I know that we Pittsburghers will just keep going to Detroit every Memorial Day weekend. At the very least, you can hang out with us! On 2/2/07, kent williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All you lot foreigners: Every year since 2000, if you got on a plane the last weekend in May you'd have seen a huge, awesome show in Detroit. You'd shop at Submerge and Melodies and Memories, you'd visit the Heidelberg Project, you'd see Mike Huckaby DJ -- four or five times if you wanted -- and there'd be loads of great afterparties. And the Clique will be serving grits on the side. It's by no means ideal that you don't get a load of advance notice, but I would think that a pattern has been established: There will be a festival, it will be awesome. My favorite festival years have been when the most people from outside the country have showed up.
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
On 2/2/07, kent williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All you lot foreigners: Every year since 2000, if you got on a plane the last weekend in May you'd have seen a huge, awesome show in Detroit. You'd shop at Submerge and Melodies and Memories, you'd visit the Heidelberg Project, you'd see Mike Huckaby DJ -- four or five times if you wanted -- and there'd be loads of great afterparties. yeah, i see huckaby like a billion times every year. and he's always good and playing different stuff! And the Clique will be serving grits on the side. dood, i so cant wait to get some Clique. best homefries ever! My favorite festival years have been when the most people from outside the country have showed up. ditto. tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
Yeah, I don't think those numbers were ever accurate. I remember parking at the Ren Cen, which is next door to Hart Plaza, all three days the first two years. If there were an extra 1 million people in Detroit, a city of about 1million, I think that parking would have been a bit tighter. Thinking about Detroit's tourism, or lack thereof, it's never been a strong point. Almost everyone that meet that has never lived there, refers to it as the armpit of the universe. :( As a former local, it has a lot of character, but I can see how visits might be scared off. If I remember correctly, wasn't Derrick scrambling at the end to confirm those artists? I don't remember any of the fests being particularly well-sorted in advance of the weekend. *shrugs Joel - Original Message From: robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Aidan O'Doherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Friday, February 2, 2007 5:08:49 AM Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! Aidan O'Doherty wrote: DEMF 2000: 1.1 to 1.5 million (over-estimated) DEMF 2001: 1.7 million DEMF 2002: 1.7 million Movement 2003: 630,000 Movement 2004: 150,000 Fuse-In 2005: 44,920 Hmmm I'm not sure how accurate any of those figures is, apart from maybe the last one where they had control over who came in and out of the site. robin...
RE: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
In Detroit, the questions aren't loaded but the guns are. ;-) MEK Odeluga, Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 02/02/2007 05:34:04 AM: Is that a loaded question? ;-) -Original Message- From: Aidan O'Doherty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 February 2007 11:31 To: Odeluga, Ken Cc: robin; Matt Chester; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! hard to believe that a modern metropolis doesn't try to tap in to tourism. detroit has its selling points, doesn't it? On 02/02/07, Aidan O'Doherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if they got they're act together, then they'd have bigger influx of foreigners. surely they sould have been planning it the day the last event finished. lock down artists early. now is when line-up needs to be released. i probably wouldn't bother with main event, especially if the line-up bears any resemblance to last year's. wish i'd gone to the actual demfs. On 02/02/07, Odeluga, Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the main reason why I've never gone Robin. Unfortunately, some of us aren't able to drop everything on a month-to-six weeks notice and go to Detroit for a few days. Love to go, but that's the reality. -Original Message- From: robin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 February 2007 11:14 To: Matt Chester Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! i'm thinking of coming over this year too. i wish they'd sort this earlier in the year to allow overseas people organise travel plans properly too. robin... Matt Chester wrote: So what do people there recommend for any of us thinking of coming over? I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to finally drag myself out this year, dunno if it's going to be a big disappointment or if all the afterparties and other goings on will more than make up for any lameness at the main event?
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
On 2-feb-2007, at 15:30, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. wrote: And the Clique will be serving grits on the side. dood, i so cant wait to get some Clique. best homefries ever! adepts voice of Homer Simpson MM The Clique. oohh /adepts voice of Homer Simpson
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
Well, in regards to tourism, Detroit is changing. Having worked in economic development (more on the creative marketing end), progress is always slow. However, Detroit is making progress. There are signs all over the place from grass roots organizations like Detroit Synergy to the techno artists we love to the big corporations like General Motors and Compuware locating to Detroit to the redevelopment of the Book Cadillac building. Change is there and I think it's the younger generations that will continue to inspire the bigger pocketbooks to invest in the community. Detroit is also rebranding itself, focusing on that younger spirit. See: http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104STORY=/www/story/01-31-2007/0004517248EDATE= I also like the fact thatthe Shrinking Cities exhibit has finally made its way here. These are important events that stir change, much like the first DEMF. Let's continue on that positive vibe!!! -- Original message -- From: Joel Gajewski [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yeah, I don't think those numbers were ever accurate. I remember parking at the Ren Cen, which is next door to Hart Plaza, all three days the first two years. If there were an extra 1 million people in Detroit, a city of about 1million, I think that parking would have been a bit tighter. Thinking about Detroit's tourism, or lack thereof, it's never been a strong point. Almost everyone that meet that has never lived there, refers to it as the armpit of the universe. :( As a former local, it has a lot of character, but I can see how visits might be scared off. If I remember correctly, wasn't Derrick scrambling at the end to confirm those artists? I don't remember any of the fests being particularly well-sorted in advance of the weekend. *shrugs Joel - Original Message From: robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Aidan O'Doherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Friday, February 2, 2007 5:08:49 AM Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! Aidan O'Doherty wrote: DEMF 2000: 1.1 to 1.5 million (over-estimated) DEMF 2001: 1.7 million DEMF 2002: 1.7 million Movement 2003: 630,000 Movement 2004: 150,000 Fuse-In 2005: 44,920 Hmmm I'm not sure how accurate any of those figures is, apart from maybe the last one where they had control over who came in and out of the site. robin...
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
On Feb 2, 2007, at 12:09, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Compuware Oy, I wouldn't be so happy about that. Several of my coworkers escaped form there with some nice stories :) -- matt kane's brain http://hydrogenproject.com aim - mkbatwerk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
Can't comment personally on Compuware. I'm sure there is a level of dissatisfaction with all places and certainly I wouldn't absolve General Motors either. Big business is big business, but a part of what's needed for Detroit to come back too, right? I don't want to launch into politics or anything like that nor am I naive about it either. Just hoping for a thriving Detroit rather than a dead one ;). Guess I'm encouraged that people want the same thing. -- Original message -- From: Matt Kane's Brain [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Feb 2, 2007, at 12:09, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Compuware Oy, I wouldn't be so happy about that. Several of my coworkers escaped form there with some nice stories :) -- matt kane's brain http://hydrogenproject.com aim - mkbatwerk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
I would say there are a few nice stories about Compuware. But the word for the festival is Better sound they are Having 4 stages maybe eliminating the underground stage And the sound being designed by funktion one of the UK. Tim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 12:33 PM To: Matt Kane's Brain Cc: Joel Gajewski; robin; Aidan O'Doherty; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! Can't comment personally on Compuware. I'm sure there is a level of dissatisfaction with all places and certainly I wouldn't absolve General Motors either. Big business is big business, but a part of what's needed for Detroit to come back too, right? I don't want to launch into politics or anything like that nor am I naive about it either. Just hoping for a thriving Detroit rather than a dead one ;). Guess I'm encouraged that people want the same thing. -- Original message -- From: Matt Kane's Brain [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Feb 2, 2007, at 12:09, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Compuware Oy, I wouldn't be so happy about that. Several of my coworkers escaped form there with some nice stories :) -- matt kane's brain http://hydrogenproject.com aim - mkbatwerk [EMAIL PROTECTED] The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
On 2/2/07, Steward, Tim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would say there are a few nice stories about Compuware. But the word for the festival is Better sound they are Having 4 stages maybe eliminating the underground stage And the sound being designed by funktion one of the UK. good sound is nice. how much is admission going to be though? that sucks. i liked the free aspect of it best! tom
RE: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
A press release is scheduled for Feb 15 -Original Message- From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 12:52 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! On 2/2/07, Steward, Tim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would say there are a few nice stories about Compuware. But the word for the festival is Better sound they are Having 4 stages maybe eliminating the underground stage And the sound being designed by funktion one of the UK. good sound is nice. how much is admission going to be though? that sucks. i liked the free aspect of it best! tom The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it.
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
did you even read the article I linked to last night? it said info would come in february. relax. and Im sure paxahau is taking donations tom, if you want to do something to help make the festival free again. maybe offer to play for free, I'm sure they'd take you up on that - Original Message - From: Thomas D. Cox, Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 12:52 PM Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! On 2/2/07, Steward, Tim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would say there are a few nice stories about Compuware. But the word for the festival is Better sound they are Having 4 stages maybe eliminating the underground stage And the sound being designed by funktion one of the UK. good sound is nice. how much is admission going to be though? that sucks. i liked the free aspect of it best! tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
On 2/2/07, /0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: did you even read the article I linked to last night? it said info would come in february. relax. uh, yeah but when someone else has more info than theyre releasing i dont see why bringing up these questions isnt relevent. and Im sure paxahau is taking donations tom, if you want to do something to help make the festival free again. maybe offer to play for free, I'm sure they'd take you up on that ill pay them for you to play so i can throw rotten tomatoes at your dumb ass. tom
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
It's just too hard for foreigners to travel to the US anyways. It's too hard to get media visas. Hate to say but we go to anywhere else to welcome arms. I love the US, love its people (with some political exceptions), but I find the whole experience of travelling there arouses anxiety. To get a media visa you have to send your passport months in advance, have a magazine with an office there (unlikely for indie Australian press) and calling the consulate to ask a question you have to have your credit card ready and pay A$10 per question - seriously. In Japan, Singapore, Europe, we're welcome as long as of course we don't work there for income which we don't, we're covering their scenes back here, which they like. I don't mind the process if it's simple but it's so arbitrary and so easy to do the wrong thing, it's not worth it. On 02/02/2007, at 10:28 PM, Aidan O'Doherty wrote: if they got they're act together, then they'd have bigger influx of foreigners. surely they sould have been planning it the day the last event finished. lock down artists early. now is when line-up needs to be released. i probably wouldn't bother with main event, especially if the line-up bears any resemblance to last year's. wish i'd gone to the actual demfs. On 02/02/07, Odeluga, Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the main reason why I've never gone Robin. Unfortunately, some of us aren't able to drop everything on a month-to-six weeks notice and go to Detroit for a few days. Love to go, but that's the reality. -Original Message- From: robin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 February 2007 11:14 To: Matt Chester Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! i'm thinking of coming over this year too. i wish they'd sort this earlier in the year to allow overseas people organise travel plans properly too. robin... Matt Chester wrote: So what do people there recommend for any of us thinking of coming over? I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to finally drag myself out this year, dunno if it's going to be a big disappointment or if all the afterparties and other goings on will more than make up for any lameness at the main event?
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
There was just a big article here in a travel section of the Age in Melbourne on Detroit - it's entitled Detroit: the urban prairie or something. There were actually nice postcards in Detroit! I bought stacks! On 02/02/2007, at 10:34 PM, Odeluga, Ken wrote: Is that a loaded question? ;-) -Original Message- From: Aidan O'Doherty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 February 2007 11:31 To: Odeluga, Ken Cc: robin; Matt Chester; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! hard to believe that a modern metropolis doesn't try to tap in to tourism. detroit has its selling points, doesn't it? On 02/02/07, Aidan O'Doherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if they got they're act together, then they'd have bigger influx of foreigners. surely they sould have been planning it the day the last event finished. lock down artists early. now is when line-up needs to be released. i probably wouldn't bother with main event, especially if the line-up bears any resemblance to last year's. wish i'd gone to the actual demfs. On 02/02/07, Odeluga, Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the main reason why I've never gone Robin. Unfortunately, some of us aren't able to drop everything on a month-to-six weeks notice and go to Detroit for a few days. Love to go, but that's the reality. -Original Message- From: robin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 February 2007 11:14 To: Matt Chester Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?! i'm thinking of coming over this year too. i wish they'd sort this earlier in the year to allow overseas people organise travel plans properly too. robin... Matt Chester wrote: So what do people there recommend for any of us thinking of coming over? I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to finally drag myself out this year, dunno if it's going to be a big disappointment or if all the afterparties and other goings on will more than make up for any lameness at the main event?
Re: (313) what's up with the festival?!?!?!
I've been 5 times and it's an epic journey for someone from Australia - and Japan. And it's way more expensive to go to Detroit than travelling to anywhere in Europe. More advance notice is necessary. I know a lot more people here would go if there was more certainty every year. It's a massive amount to spend if there's any doubt and that scares people. On 03/02/2007, at 12:53 AM, kent williams wrote: All you lot foreigners: Every year since 2000, if you got on a plane the last weekend in May you'd have seen a huge, awesome show in Detroit. You'd shop at Submerge and Melodies and Memories, you'd visit the Heidelberg Project, you'd see Mike Huckaby DJ -- four or five times if you wanted -- and there'd be loads of great afterparties. And the Clique will be serving grits on the side. It's by no means ideal that you don't get a load of advance notice, but I would think that a pattern has been established: There will be a festival, it will be awesome. My favorite festival years have been when the most people from outside the country have showed up.
