Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Robert Andrews 
oh, I forgot shipping on that, which will apply to any you don't pick 
up, but Sig Solar I think is a little higher than a lot of others, which 
probably brings it close to .50/watt delivered...  But still probably 
$6K delivered for 12Kwatts?   Plus probably another $3K for the 
controller/inverters and probably another $1-2K for the racking...   And 
the govt will give you ~20-30% tax credits..  So if you build it 
yourself, you can be under 10K before credits...


On 1/19/22 1:00 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/375w-72cell-mono-solar-panel-by-rec-l-full-pallet-of-33 



$159/panel   for 12K watts..

On 1/19/22 9:59 AM, Nate Burke wrote:

What is the going rate for solar panels these days?

On 1/19/2022 11:51 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Propane fridges, water heater, clothes dryers and space heaters are a 
pretty good solution for off grid.  Obviously if you have enough 
solar you don’t need any of them but for the money, I think that is 
the best use of the dollar.

*From:* Steven Kenney via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:43 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Steven Kenney
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
Consider a fridge that runs on either electric or propane like RV's. 
They work great.
On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 5:10 AM Chuck McCown via AF  
wrote:


    Say a similar on grid home used 500 kWh per month. That is
    equivalent to a steady state load of almost 700 watts.  Round up
    to 1kW.  So 10 kW panel minimum.  Panels are cheap these days.  I
    would do 20kW if you can.  Batts are not so cheap.  That is where
    you can save some big money with a modest generator. Propane is 
nice.


    Sent from my iPhone

    > On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF
     wrote:
    >


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Robert Andrews 

thats .42 / watt

On 1/19/22 1:00 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/375w-72cell-mono-solar-panel-by-rec-l-full-pallet-of-33 



$159/panel   for 12K watts..

On 1/19/22 9:59 AM, Nate Burke wrote:

What is the going rate for solar panels these days?

On 1/19/2022 11:51 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Propane fridges, water heater, clothes dryers and space heaters are a 
pretty good solution for off grid.  Obviously if you have enough 
solar you don’t need any of them but for the money, I think that is 
the best use of the dollar.

*From:* Steven Kenney via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:43 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Steven Kenney
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
Consider a fridge that runs on either electric or propane like RV's. 
They work great.
On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 5:10 AM Chuck McCown via AF  
wrote:


    Say a similar on grid home used 500 kWh per month. That is
    equivalent to a steady state load of almost 700 watts.  Round up
    to 1kW.  So 10 kW panel minimum.  Panels are cheap these days.  I
    would do 20kW if you can.  Batts are not so cheap.  That is where
    you can save some big money with a modest generator. Propane is 
nice.


    Sent from my iPhone

    > On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF
     wrote:
    >


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Robert Andrews 

https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/375w-72cell-mono-solar-panel-by-rec-l-full-pallet-of-33

$159/panel   for 12K watts..

On 1/19/22 9:59 AM, Nate Burke wrote:

What is the going rate for solar panels these days?

On 1/19/2022 11:51 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Propane fridges, water heater, clothes dryers and space heaters are a 
pretty good solution for off grid.  Obviously if you have enough solar 
you don’t need any of them but for the money, I think that is the best 
use of the dollar.

*From:* Steven Kenney via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:43 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Steven Kenney
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
Consider a fridge that runs on either electric or propane like RV's.  
They work great.
On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 5:10 AM Chuck McCown via AF  
wrote:


Say a similar on grid home used 500 kWh per month. That is
equivalent to a steady state load of almost 700 watts.  Round up
to 1kW.  So 10 kW panel minimum.  Panels are cheap these days.  I
would do 20kW if you can.  Batts are not so cheap.  That is where
you can save some big money with a modest generator. Propane is nice.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:
>


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Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

2022-01-19 Thread James Howard 
Jonathan Tramontozzi | Global Relationship Manager

Hurricane Electric Internet Services  (AS6939)

(o) +1 510-580-4134 | (m) +1 617-642-7869 | (e) jtramonto...@he.net 
   

 

We deal with Jonathan.  I’m sure he can help you.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:42 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

 

You have a sales rep I can contact?

 

From: Darin Steffl 

Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 9:24 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

 

HE has a better network and support than Cogent. If you can only start with one 
of the two, I'd go with HE first. 

 

We love their network, sales, and support. If you're picking it up in Salt 
Lake, they have 5 paths out vs. Cogent's 3 paths.

 

You'll find HE performs better latency wise with better path.

 

Please take a look at both of their network maps and you'll see how HE is more 
dense with more POP's, and more paths. They also peer with everyone at as many 
IX's as possible where Cogent does not which can lead to congested ports.

http://he.net/HurricaneElectricNetworkMap.pdf

https://www.cogentco.com/en/network/network-map

 

HE is the real winner for performance and cost.

 

https://bgp.he.net/report/exchanges#_participants

On IX participation, Cogent isn't even on the TOP list at all and HE is #1 for 
number of IX's they're on.

 

https://bgp.he.net/report/peers

HE also has more BGP peers than any other network in the world. #1 here too. #2 
is Cogent.

 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:26 PM TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com> > wrote:

It's usually cheaper in my recent experience but not by a whole lot. He will 
probably pay a bit more than a single 10g to get 2x2g

 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:22 AM Seth Mattinen mailto:se...@rollernet.us> > wrote:

On 1/18/22 11:13 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> I am warming up to the idea of having two providers.  2Gig burstable on 
> each.

Every time I've asked about burstable in recent memoty the price is 
higher than a fixed rate port, if offered at all.

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Chuck McCown via AF 
50 cents/watt or less.  

From: Nate Burke 
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 11:00 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

What is the going rate for solar panels these days?  


On 1/19/2022 11:51 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

  Propane fridges, water heater, clothes dryers and space heaters are a pretty 
good solution for off grid.  Obviously if you have enough solar you don’t need 
any of them but for the money, I think that is the best use of the dollar.  

  From: Steven Kenney via AF 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:43 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Cc: Steven Kenney 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

  Consider a fridge that runs on either electric or propane like RV's.  They 
work great.  

  On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 5:10 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

Say a similar on grid home used 500 kWh per month. That is equivalent to a 
steady state load of almost 700 watts.  Round up to 1kW.  So 10 kW panel 
minimum.  Panels are cheap these days.  I would do 20kW if you can.  Batts are 
not so cheap.  That is where you can save some big money with a modest 
generator.  Propane is nice.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
> 


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Bill Prince 

  
  
It ranges widely depending on who you're talking to, but if you
  know who to go to you can generally get them for between 40 and 50
  cents per watt.


bp

On 1/19/2022 9:59 AM, Nate Burke wrote:


  
  What is the going rate for solar panels these days?  
  
  On 1/19/2022 11:51 AM, Chuck McCown
via AF wrote:
  
  


  
Propane fridges, water heater, clothes dryers and space
  heaters are a pretty good solution for off grid. 
  Obviously if you have enough solar you don’t need any of
  them but for the money, I think that is the best use of
  the dollar.  

  
 

  From: Steven
  Kenney via AF 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:43 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
  Group 
  Cc: Steven Kenney 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic.
Off grid home

  
   


  
Consider a fridge
  that runs on either electric or propane like RV's. 
  They work great.  
  
   
  
On Wed, Jan 19, 2022
  at 5:10 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
  wrote:

Say a similar on grid home used 500
  kWh per month. That is equivalent to a steady state
  load of almost 700 watts.  Round up to 1kW.  So 10 kW
  panel minimum.  Panels are cheap these days.  I would
  do 20kW if you can.  Batts are not so cheap.  That is
  where you can save some big money with a modest
  generator.  Propane is nice.
  
  Sent from my iPhone
  
  > On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF
  
  wrote:
  > 
  
  
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Nate Burke 

What is the going rate for solar panels these days?

On 1/19/2022 11:51 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Propane fridges, water heater, clothes dryers and space heaters are a 
pretty good solution for off grid.  Obviously if you have enough solar 
you don’t need any of them but for the money, I think that is the best 
use of the dollar.

*From:* Steven Kenney via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:43 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Steven Kenney
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
Consider a fridge that runs on either electric or propane like RV's.  
They work great.
On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 5:10 AM Chuck McCown via AF  
wrote:


Say a similar on grid home used 500 kWh per month. That is
equivalent to a steady state load of almost 700 watts.  Round up
to 1kW.  So 10 kW panel minimum.  Panels are cheap these days.  I
would do 20kW if you can.  Batts are not so cheap.  That is where
you can save some big money with a modest generator. Propane is nice.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:
>


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Nate Burke 

What is the going rate for solar panels these days?

On 1/19/2022 11:51 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Propane fridges, water heater, clothes dryers and space heaters are a 
pretty good solution for off grid.  Obviously if you have enough solar 
you don’t need any of them but for the money, I think that is the best 
use of the dollar.

*From:* Steven Kenney via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:43 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Steven Kenney
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
Consider a fridge that runs on either electric or propane like RV's.  
They work great.
On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 5:10 AM Chuck McCown via AF  
wrote:


Say a similar on grid home used 500 kWh per month. That is
equivalent to a steady state load of almost 700 watts.  Round up
to 1kW.  So 10 kW panel minimum.  Panels are cheap these days.  I
would do 20kW if you can.  Batts are not so cheap.  That is where
you can save some big money with a modest generator. Propane is nice.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:
>


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Chuck McCown via AF 
Propane fridges, water heater, clothes dryers and space heaters are a pretty 
good solution for off grid.  Obviously if you have enough solar you don’t need 
any of them but for the money, I think that is the best use of the dollar.  

From: Steven Kenney via AF 
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:43 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Steven Kenney 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

Consider a fridge that runs on either electric or propane like RV's.  They work 
great.  

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 5:10 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  Say a similar on grid home used 500 kWh per month. That is equivalent to a 
steady state load of almost 700 watts.  Round up to 1kW.  So 10 kW panel 
minimum.  Panels are cheap these days.  I would do 20kW if you can.  Batts are 
not so cheap.  That is where you can save some big money with a modest 
generator.  Propane is nice.

  Sent from my iPhone

  > On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
  > 


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Steven Kenney via AF 
Consider a fridge that runs on either electric or propane like RV's.  They
work great.

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 5:10 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Say a similar on grid home used 500 kWh per month. That is equivalent to a
> steady state load of almost 700 watts.  Round up to 1kW.  So 10 kW panel
> minimum.  Panels are cheap these days.  I would do 20kW if you can.  Batts
> are not so cheap.  That is where you can save some big money with a modest
> generator.  Propane is nice.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
> >
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Steven Kenney via AF 
Very cool inverter.

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:08 PM Robert  wrote:

> I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another in the
> future somewhere more northerly..This one is in the sunbelt of N.
> Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP battery bank
> through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight
> solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of 110.  (
> the 220 will not run the well controller even though supposedly
> configured for such. )I am upgrading the inverters and controller to
> a
>
> https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt
>
> planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.
>
> I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in
> advance before I buy myself into a corner...I'm all ears..
>
> thanks!!
>
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Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

2022-01-19 Thread Chuck McCown via AF 
Sent a request to HE for a quote.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 9:50 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

Cogent doesn't participate in IXes at all, which is indeed a problem. 

HE is better than Cogent in many ways, but Cogent is still bigger.

https://asrank.caida.org/




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Darin Steffl" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:24:36 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing


HE has a better network and support than Cogent. If you can only start with one 
of the two, I'd go with HE first. 

We love their network, sales, and support. If you're picking it up in Salt 
Lake, they have 5 paths out vs. Cogent's 3 paths.

You'll find HE performs better latency wise with better path.

Please take a look at both of their network maps and you'll see how HE is more 
dense with more POP's, and more paths. They also peer with everyone at as many 
IX's as possible where Cogent does not which can lead to congested ports.
http://he.net/HurricaneElectricNetworkMap.pdf

https://www.cogentco.com/en/network/network-map


HE is the real winner for performance and cost.

https://bgp.he.net/report/exchanges#_participants

On IX participation, Cogent isn't even on the TOP list at all and HE is #1 for 
number of IX's they're on.

https://bgp.he.net/report/peers

HE also has more BGP peers than any other network in the world. #1 here too. #2 
is Cogent.

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:26 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

  It's usually cheaper in my recent experience but not by a whole lot. He will 
probably pay a bit more than a single 10g to get 2x2g

  On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:22 AM Seth Mattinen  wrote:

On 1/18/22 11:13 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> I am warming up to the idea of having two providers.  2Gig burstable on 
> each.

Every time I've asked about burstable in recent memoty the price is 
higher than a fixed rate port, if offered at all.

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Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

2022-01-19 Thread TJ Trout 
The only stable router for that scale is the 1036 and it will route 10g+
but falls on its face with certain ddos attacks.

x86 like the Baltic vengence is pretty bulletproof and all around works
really well.

I have my eye on juniper mx204s because I really want to move to ASIC based
'big iron' someday...

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022, 8:43 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Well since it was released in the middle of December, just over 30
> calendar days.
>
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 11:18 AM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> How recently have you looked at v7? I've had 7.1.1 running on a few
>> routers for a couple of weeks, and so far, I haven't seen any problems with
>> it.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:03 AM Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Simply based on the complaints and well done bug reports (ie excluding
>>> v7 is junk cuz I say so) I wouldn't do v7 in production.  I won't do it at
>>> home!  I just don't have the time to screw with it.
>>>
>>> I would imagine it would OSPF nicely to the other routers, be it Cisco
>>> or a v6 Mikrotik, but the problem I have is the v7 router would have
>>> problems of its own.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:37 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
>>> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>>>
 Josh,

 I was wondering if anyone has tried v7 in mixed production with v6
 units.  They are coming out with some nice new HW, but it runs only v7.  I
 guess that is a good thing being they are not wasting their time putting
 old SW on the new HW.  I much rather them concentrate on the new stuff.
 But, is the new stuff ready for production?  Also, does it play well (OSPF)
 with the old stuff?

 --
 Best regards,
 Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
 

 Myakka Communications
 www.Myakka.com

 --

 Wednesday, January 19, 2022, 10:09:10 AM, you wrote:


 I'm using Mikrotik.  Get a "cheap" 1036 right now.  When you outgrow
 it, replace it with the bigger CCR (1072 is bigger but you need to avoid
 NAT and such for crashes at high throughput).  The newer CCR are bigger
 still and even cheaper, but v7 only and hence are super buggy.

 On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 5:19 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

 I think you mean transport, transit is internet access/dia/full routes,
 so you have 3 transit providers feeding a switch and transport back to your
 hut =) Mikrotik is a decent router but stay away from the 1072, the 1036 is
 solid but since it's using CPU instead of asic it cannot withstand many
 ddos attacks

 On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:03 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
 m...@mailmt.com> wrote:

 Dmmoffett,

 All three of my BGP routers are RouterOS.  Two are old x86 from baltic
 with the 4 port 10 gig card. One is a CCR1072.  At peak I'm pushing about
 12G total across all three.  Really haven't push the CCR to the limits yet.


 --
 Best regards,
 Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
 

 Myakka Communications
 www.Myakka.com

 --

 Tuesday, January 18, 2022, 2:33:02 PM, you wrote:


 ….and I still love Mikrotik’s, but the CCR1072 crash/reboot issue was a
 big turnoff.

 *From: *dmmoff...@gmail.com 
 *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:32 PM
 *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
 *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

 The only thing I’d be careful of is Juniper changed pricing recently,
 so don’t trust any price you hear that isn’t from 2022.

 I’m really loving Arista these days.  An Arista L3 switch would
 probably do everything you’d want.  They do have routers too of course, but
 switches are cheap enough to keep a spare.  Arista’s command syntax is
 identical to Cisco, so there’s that too.

 -Adam


 *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
 *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:27 PM
 *To:* Chuck McCown 
 *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

 Yeah just get a juniper, even if you go used, i think it's a front
 loaded investment with a great roi in headaches saved

 On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:25 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

 We are actually routerless at the moment, buying access from another
 company that has some Cisco big iron there.
 It was a great way to start out from scratch but the economics are such
 that it will pay us to do our own router and own DIA now.

 *From:* TJ Trout
 *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:23 PM
 *To:* Chuck McCown
 *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 *Subject:* Re: Dual DIA router

 What's your current router? I'm sure it can do many connections using a
 switch and vlans. What is the specs you want and budget? Baltic vengence 3
 is a good option, or mx204 is the best option

Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

2022-01-19 Thread Mike Hammett 
Cogent doesn't participate in IXes at all, which is indeed a problem. 


HE is better than Cogent in many ways, but Cogent is still bigger. 


https://asrank.caida.org/ 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Darin Steffl"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:24:36 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing 


HE has a better network and support than Cogent. If you can only start with one 
of the two, I'd go with HE first. 


We love their network, sales, and support. If you're picking it up in Salt 
Lake, they have 5 paths out vs. Cogent's 3 paths. 


You'll find HE performs better latency wise with better path. 


Please take a look at both of their network maps and you'll see how HE is more 
dense with more POP's, and more paths. They also peer with everyone at as many 
IX's as possible where Cogent does not which can lead to congested ports. 
http://he.net/HurricaneElectricNetworkMap.pdf 

https://www.cogentco.com/en/network/network-map 



HE is the real winner for performance and cost. 


https://bgp.he.net/report/exchanges#_participants 

On IX participation, Cogent isn't even on the TOP list at all and HE is #1 for 
number of IX's they're on. 


https://bgp.he.net/report/peers 

HE also has more BGP peers than any other network in the world. #1 here too. #2 
is Cogent. 


On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:26 PM TJ Trout < t...@voltbb.com > wrote: 



It's usually cheaper in my recent experience but not by a whole lot. He will 
probably pay a bit more than a single 10g to get 2x2g 


On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:22 AM Seth Mattinen < se...@rollernet.us > wrote: 


On 1/18/22 11:13 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: 
> I am warming up to the idea of having two providers. 2Gig burstable on 
> each. 

Every time I've asked about burstable in recent memoty the price is 
higher than a fixed rate port, if offered at all. 

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Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

2022-01-19 Thread Darin Steffl 
sa...@he.net
ma...@he.net

Either of those two emails will do the trick. They're a very small company
by employee count so you'll only ever deal with one or two people in sales.

It's amazing how large their network is but they're a small company with
little overhead.

Noc emails and calls are answered quickly too if you have trouble. If I
have an emergency, I'll email n...@he.net first to generate a ticket then
call them with the ticket number to get immediate support. Otherwise email
responses are usually 10 mins or less. They always answer calls in less
than 60 seconds.

We have 10G for $1,000 on a 5-year contract that we signed 4 years ago I
believe. I know their pricing is better than that today depending on which
POP.

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:43 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> You have a sales rep I can contact?
>
> *From:* Darin Steffl
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 9:24 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
>
> HE has a better network and support than Cogent. If you can only start
> with one of the two, I'd go with HE first.
>
> We love their network, sales, and support. If you're picking it up in Salt
> Lake, they have 5 paths out vs. Cogent's 3 paths.
>
> You'll find HE performs better latency wise with better path.
>
> Please take a look at both of their network maps and you'll see how HE is
> more dense with more POP's, and more paths. They also peer with everyone at
> as many IX's as possible where Cogent does not which can lead to congested
> ports.
> http://he.net/HurricaneElectricNetworkMap.pdf
> https://www.cogentco.com/en/network/network-map
>
> HE is the real winner for performance and cost.
>
> https://bgp.he.net/report/exchanges#_participants
> On IX participation, Cogent isn't even on the TOP list at all and HE is #1
> for number of IX's they're on.
>
> https://bgp.he.net/report/peers
> HE also has more BGP peers than any other network in the world. #1 here
> too. #2 is Cogent.
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:26 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> It's usually cheaper in my recent experience but not by a whole lot. He
>> will probably pay a bit more than a single 10g to get 2x2g
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:22 AM Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/18/22 11:13 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>> > I am warming up to the idea of having two providers.  2Gig burstable
>>> on
>>> > each.
>>>
>>> Every time I've asked about burstable in recent memoty the price is
>>> higher than a fixed rate port, if offered at all.
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Darin Steffl
> Minnesota WiFi
> www.mnwifi.com
> 507-634-WiFi
> Like us on Facebook 
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
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>
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>


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Robert 
They are 2x what I can get a 32 seer unit that heats to -22 degrees...  
(SEER is a handwave number but -22 isn't)...  heating is actually more 
important than cooling here...  have to have the batteries and inverter 
anyways..   but I will consider in the future specially for the garage...


On 1/19/22 7:57 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Nice.  I used something similar in a telco central office years ago 
that was 100% solar.  Worked great.

*From:* Zach Underwood
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 6:13 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
If you have not already gotten the mini splits take a look at 
https://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/

It has direct PV inputs when sunny it would put no load on your inverter
IT can be put in solar only mode where it will scale the cool/heat 
output to match the power it is getting PV

It can run overnight if you wish by giving in 240volt AC connection.
On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:08 PM Robert  wrote:

I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another in the
future somewhere more northerly..    This one is in the sunbelt of N.
Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP battery
bank
through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight
solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of
110.  (
the 220 will not run the well controller even though supposedly
configured for such. )    I am upgrading the inverters and
controller to
a

https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt

planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.

I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in
advance before I buy myself into a corner...    I'm all ears..

thanks!!

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Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

2022-01-19 Thread Josh Luthman 
Well since it was released in the middle of December, just over 30 calendar
days.

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 11:18 AM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> How recently have you looked at v7? I've had 7.1.1 running on a few
> routers for a couple of weeks, and so far, I haven't seen any problems with
> it.
>
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:03 AM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> Simply based on the complaints and well done bug reports (ie excluding v7
>> is junk cuz I say so) I wouldn't do v7 in production.  I won't do it at
>> home!  I just don't have the time to screw with it.
>>
>> I would imagine it would OSPF nicely to the other routers, be it Cisco or
>> a v6 Mikrotik, but the problem I have is the v7 router would have problems
>> of its own.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:37 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
>> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Josh,
>>>
>>> I was wondering if anyone has tried v7 in mixed production with v6
>>> units.  They are coming out with some nice new HW, but it runs only v7.  I
>>> guess that is a good thing being they are not wasting their time putting
>>> old SW on the new HW.  I much rather them concentrate on the new stuff.
>>> But, is the new stuff ready for production?  Also, does it play well (OSPF)
>>> with the old stuff?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best regards,
>>> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>>>
>>> Myakka Communications
>>> www.Myakka.com
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Wednesday, January 19, 2022, 10:09:10 AM, you wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm using Mikrotik.  Get a "cheap" 1036 right now.  When you outgrow it,
>>> replace it with the bigger CCR (1072 is bigger but you need to avoid NAT
>>> and such for crashes at high throughput).  The newer CCR are bigger still
>>> and even cheaper, but v7 only and hence are super buggy.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 5:19 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>>
>>> I think you mean transport, transit is internet access/dia/full routes,
>>> so you have 3 transit providers feeding a switch and transport back to your
>>> hut =) Mikrotik is a decent router but stay away from the 1072, the 1036 is
>>> solid but since it's using CPU instead of asic it cannot withstand many
>>> ddos attacks
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:03 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
>>> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dmmoffett,
>>>
>>> All three of my BGP routers are RouterOS.  Two are old x86 from baltic
>>> with the 4 port 10 gig card. One is a CCR1072.  At peak I'm pushing about
>>> 12G total across all three.  Really haven't push the CCR to the limits yet.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best regards,
>>> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>>>
>>> Myakka Communications
>>> www.Myakka.com
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Tuesday, January 18, 2022, 2:33:02 PM, you wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> ….and I still love Mikrotik’s, but the CCR1072 crash/reboot issue was a
>>> big turnoff.
>>>
>>> *From: *dmmoff...@gmail.com 
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:32 PM
>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>>> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router
>>>
>>> The only thing I’d be careful of is Juniper changed pricing recently, so
>>> don’t trust any price you hear that isn’t from 2022.
>>>
>>> I’m really loving Arista these days.  An Arista L3 switch would probably
>>> do everything you’d want.  They do have routers too of course, but switches
>>> are cheap enough to keep a spare.  Arista’s command syntax is identical to
>>> Cisco, so there’s that too.
>>>
>>> -Adam
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:27 PM
>>> *To:* Chuck McCown 
>>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router
>>>
>>> Yeah just get a juniper, even if you go used, i think it's a front
>>> loaded investment with a great roi in headaches saved
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:25 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
>>> We are actually routerless at the moment, buying access from another
>>> company that has some Cisco big iron there.
>>> It was a great way to start out from scratch but the economics are such
>>> that it will pay us to do our own router and own DIA now.
>>>
>>> *From:* TJ Trout
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:23 PM
>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: Dual DIA router
>>>
>>> What's your current router? I'm sure it can do many connections using a
>>> switch and vlans. What is the specs you want and budget? Baltic vengence 3
>>> is a good option, or mx204 is the best option probably but 25k+
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:13 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
>>> To do dual DIA we are going to have to do a new router.  Or used
>>> router.  Last time down this road we were kicking tires on Juniper.  I
>>> don’t have a ton of customers on my new system yet but I can foresee 2000
>>> in the next 2-3 years.
>>> What would be a good value there?  I really don’t want a $25K router
>>> right now.
>>>
>>> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:55 AM
>>> *To:* TJ Trout
>>> *Cc:*

Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

2022-01-19 Thread Chuck McCown via AF 
You have a sales rep I can contact?

From: Darin Steffl 
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 9:24 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

HE has a better network and support than Cogent. If you can only start with one 
of the two, I'd go with HE first. 

We love their network, sales, and support. If you're picking it up in Salt 
Lake, they have 5 paths out vs. Cogent's 3 paths.

You'll find HE performs better latency wise with better path.

Please take a look at both of their network maps and you'll see how HE is more 
dense with more POP's, and more paths. They also peer with everyone at as many 
IX's as possible where Cogent does not which can lead to congested ports.
http://he.net/HurricaneElectricNetworkMap.pdf

https://www.cogentco.com/en/network/network-map


HE is the real winner for performance and cost.

https://bgp.he.net/report/exchanges#_participants

On IX participation, Cogent isn't even on the TOP list at all and HE is #1 for 
number of IX's they're on.

https://bgp.he.net/report/peers

HE also has more BGP peers than any other network in the world. #1 here too. #2 
is Cogent.

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:26 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

  It's usually cheaper in my recent experience but not by a whole lot. He will 
probably pay a bit more than a single 10g to get 2x2g

  On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:22 AM Seth Mattinen  wrote:

On 1/18/22 11:13 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> I am warming up to the idea of having two providers.  2Gig burstable on 
> each.

Every time I've asked about burstable in recent memoty the price is 
higher than a fixed rate port, if offered at all.

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Robert 
Currently have a 5kw propane genny hooked up but it's only 120v, the 8kw 
propane 220v is sitting there waiting for an exhaust pipe adapter to get 
finished so we can hook it to the exhaust pipe that exits the genny 
room.   We had a 12kw diesel outside genny but fried the control panel 
out of the blue and it is some german generator that we can't find a 
replacement panel for.   We are going to try and find parts to fix it 
but it was faster replacing it for now.   The house is unoccupied 
currently and the majority of the current load is for transmitters and 
cameras at about 200watts...   Expect that to double with the new 
controller/inverter and double again when occupied..


On 1/19/22 2:09 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Say a similar on grid home used 500 kWh per month. That is equivalent to a 
steady state load of almost 700 watts.  Round up to 1kW.  So 10 kW panel 
minimum.  Panels are cheap these days.  I would do 20kW if you can.  Batts are 
not so cheap.  That is where you can save some big money with a modest 
generator.  Propane is nice.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:






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Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

2022-01-19 Thread Darin Steffl 
HE has a better network and support than Cogent. If you can only start with
one of the two, I'd go with HE first.

We love their network, sales, and support. If you're picking it up in Salt
Lake, they have 5 paths out vs. Cogent's 3 paths.

You'll find HE performs better latency wise with better path.

Please take a look at both of their network maps and you'll see how HE is
more dense with more POP's, and more paths. They also peer with everyone at
as many IX's as possible where Cogent does not which can lead to congested
ports.
http://he.net/HurricaneElectricNetworkMap.pdf
https://www.cogentco.com/en/network/network-map

HE is the real winner for performance and cost.

https://bgp.he.net/report/exchanges#_participants
On IX participation, Cogent isn't even on the TOP list at all and HE is #1
for number of IX's they're on.

https://bgp.he.net/report/peers
HE also has more BGP peers than any other network in the world. #1 here
too. #2 is Cogent.

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:26 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> It's usually cheaper in my recent experience but not by a whole lot. He
> will probably pay a bit more than a single 10g to get 2x2g
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:22 AM Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>
>> On 1/18/22 11:13 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> > I am warming up to the idea of having two providers.  2Gig burstable on
>> > each.
>>
>> Every time I've asked about burstable in recent memoty the price is
>> higher than a fixed rate port, if offered at all.
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
Like us on Facebook 
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ot: Covid natural immunity

2022-01-19 Thread Robert 
I've had friends who had delta in early November getting Omicron.   So I 
don't think immunity really existed for Omicron, but they all had quick, 
flu like symptoms of Omicron ( 3 families, total 8 people ).   What the 
experts are calling endemic conditions.   I was really frustrated that 
about 3 months ago they started throwing the endemic word around without 
finding an explanation anywhere with google, and now, finally, I am 
seeing definitions of endemic.   Not everybody gets it, and the 
hospitals are not full of dying..   There are also articles being 
written that the US is fairing worse than most of the rest of the world 
(again) because we still just don't get vaxed and wear masks.   Anti-vax 
is a first world situation, 2nd and 3rd worlders are clamoring for vax...


On 1/18/22 6:50 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
I hosted a super apreader event Saturday before last. We all had covid 
around november 2020. So assuming omicron specific isn't different, 
natural immunity is about a year and change, way better than the shot 
but not as easy to obtain.


I got the aches this time. I really wish they would use the word ache 
and let people know its more like gitmo torture. None of the 
vaccinated fared any better.


I thought there was a moment of heading to the deathcamps we  call 
ICUs on this, lucked out and it turned around.


This omicron is really suspect comparable to the OG covid. This had a 
more natural feel than the last, like the scientists lost control of 
it and its taken a natural progression (virii dont want hosts dead). 
None of the wird shit, with the exception of my right thumb doing the 
micheal j fox again.





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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

2022-01-19 Thread Bill Prince 

  
  
2004 is like the stone age in internet years.


bp

On 1/19/2022 8:11 AM, Jaime Solorza
  wrote:


  
  I have never been a Mikrotik fan boy...i remember
their techs in Dallas-FW American Airlines site during a WISP
gathering writing code at their booth.  circa 2004 on layover
before a trip out to Bolivia.

  

  Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390
  

  
  

  
  
  
On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 9:01
  AM Chuck McCown via AF 
  wrote:


  

  
I have two issues with MT.  It has a sketchy track
  record over the years.  Some models work, others not
  so well.  There was a period in the early days that
  there were twentyeleven versions of the software and
  you had to pick and choose the version for what you
  wanted to do.  I know that was almost 20 years ago,
  but I still see squirrely things posted now and then. 

 
I don’t want to do a forklift upgrade in a  year or
  two.  Just buy something now that will take me to 5000
  customers and be done with it.  

  
 

  From: can...@believewireless.net
  
  Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 8:24
AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave
  Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

  
   


  
I'd
  HIGHLY recommend starting with Mikrotik. Go with a
  CCR2004 or the newer CCR2116. We have two
  locations where
we
  upgraded them to V7.1.1 and they are stable even
  with BGP/OSPF, etc. Next best option would be a
  Mikrotik on an X86
like
  Baltic. But at that point, might as well go
  Juniper.
 
You
  can't beat Mikrotik for starting out. It does
  everything you need and the price point can't be
  beat.
  
   
  
On Wed, Jan 19,
  2022 at 10:10 AM Josh Luthman 
  wrote:


  I'm using Mikrotik.  Get a "cheap"
1036 right now.  When you outgrow it, replace it
with the bigger CCR (1072 is bigger but you need
to avoid NAT and such for crashes at high
throughput).  The newer CCR are bigger still and
even cheaper, but v7 only and hence are super
buggy.
   
  
On Tue, Jan
  18, 2022 at 5:19 PM TJ Trout 
  wrote:


  I think you mean transport,
transit is internet access/dia/full routes,
so you have 3 transit providers feeding a
switch and transport back to your hut =)
Mikrotik is a decent router but stay away
from the 1072, the 1036 is solid but since
it's using CPU instead of asic it cannot
withstand many ddos attacks
   
  
On Tue,
  Jan 18, 2022 at 2:03 PM Mark - Myakka
  Technologies 
  wrote:


  Dmmoffett,
  
  All three of my BGP routers are
  RouterOS.  Two are old x86 from baltic
  with the 4 port 10 gig card. One is a
  CCR1072.  At peak I'm pushing about
  12G total across all three.  Really
  haven't push the CCR to the limits

Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

2022-01-19 Thread Mathew Howard 
How recently have you looked at v7? I've had 7.1.1 running on a few routers
for a couple of weeks, and so far, I haven't seen any problems with it.

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:03 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Simply based on the complaints and well done bug reports (ie excluding v7
> is junk cuz I say so) I wouldn't do v7 in production.  I won't do it at
> home!  I just don't have the time to screw with it.
>
> I would imagine it would OSPF nicely to the other routers, be it Cisco or
> a v6 Mikrotik, but the problem I have is the v7 router would have problems
> of its own.
>
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:37 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>
>> Josh,
>>
>> I was wondering if anyone has tried v7 in mixed production with v6
>> units.  They are coming out with some nice new HW, but it runs only v7.  I
>> guess that is a good thing being they are not wasting their time putting
>> old SW on the new HW.  I much rather them concentrate on the new stuff.
>> But, is the new stuff ready for production?  Also, does it play well (OSPF)
>> with the old stuff?
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>>
>> Myakka Communications
>> www.Myakka.com
>>
>> --
>>
>> Wednesday, January 19, 2022, 10:09:10 AM, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'm using Mikrotik.  Get a "cheap" 1036 right now.  When you outgrow it,
>> replace it with the bigger CCR (1072 is bigger but you need to avoid NAT
>> and such for crashes at high throughput).  The newer CCR are bigger still
>> and even cheaper, but v7 only and hence are super buggy.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 5:19 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>
>> I think you mean transport, transit is internet access/dia/full routes,
>> so you have 3 transit providers feeding a switch and transport back to your
>> hut =) Mikrotik is a decent router but stay away from the 1072, the 1036 is
>> solid but since it's using CPU instead of asic it cannot withstand many
>> ddos attacks
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:03 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
>> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dmmoffett,
>>
>> All three of my BGP routers are RouterOS.  Two are old x86 from baltic
>> with the 4 port 10 gig card. One is a CCR1072.  At peak I'm pushing about
>> 12G total across all three.  Really haven't push the CCR to the limits yet.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>>
>> Myakka Communications
>> www.Myakka.com
>>
>> --
>>
>> Tuesday, January 18, 2022, 2:33:02 PM, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> ….and I still love Mikrotik’s, but the CCR1072 crash/reboot issue was a
>> big turnoff.
>>
>> *From: *dmmoff...@gmail.com 
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:32 PM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router
>>
>> The only thing I’d be careful of is Juniper changed pricing recently, so
>> don’t trust any price you hear that isn’t from 2022.
>>
>> I’m really loving Arista these days.  An Arista L3 switch would probably
>> do everything you’d want.  They do have routers too of course, but switches
>> are cheap enough to keep a spare.  Arista’s command syntax is identical to
>> Cisco, so there’s that too.
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:27 PM
>> *To:* Chuck McCown 
>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router
>>
>> Yeah just get a juniper, even if you go used, i think it's a front loaded
>> investment with a great roi in headaches saved
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:25 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>> We are actually routerless at the moment, buying access from another
>> company that has some Cisco big iron there.
>> It was a great way to start out from scratch but the economics are such
>> that it will pay us to do our own router and own DIA now.
>>
>> *From:* TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:23 PM
>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: Dual DIA router
>>
>> What's your current router? I'm sure it can do many connections using a
>> switch and vlans. What is the specs you want and budget? Baltic vengence 3
>> is a good option, or mx204 is the best option probably but 25k+
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:13 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>> To do dual DIA we are going to have to do a new router.  Or used router.
>> Last time down this road we were kicking tires on Juniper.  I don’t have a
>> ton of customers on my new system yet but I can foresee 2000 in the next
>> 2-3 years.
>> What would be a good value there?  I really don’t want a $25K router
>> right now.
>>
>> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:55 AM
>> *To:* TJ Trout
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
>>
>> Not sure I want to have two providers at the moment...  The problem is
>> having the two backhaul circuits.  Maybe I could vlan them.
>> No harm in quoting HE.  Anyone got a sales

Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

2022-01-19 Thread Jaime Solorza 
I have never been a Mikrotik fan boy...i remember their techs in Dallas-FW
American Airlines site during a WISP gathering writing code at their
booth.  circa 2004 on layover before a trip out to Bolivia.

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390


On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 9:01 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I have two issues with MT.  It has a sketchy track record over the years.
> Some models work, others not so well.  There was a period in the early days
> that there were twentyeleven versions of the software and you had to pick
> and choose the version for what you wanted to do.  I know that was almost
> 20 years ago, but I still see squirrely things posted now and then.
>
> I don’t want to do a forklift upgrade in a  year or two.  Just buy
> something now that will take me to 5000 customers and be done with it.
>
> *From:* can...@believewireless.net
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 8:24 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router
>
> I'd HIGHLY recommend starting with Mikrotik. Go with a CCR2004 or the
> newer CCR2116. We have two locations where
> we upgraded them to V7.1.1 and they are stable even with BGP/OSPF, etc.
> Next best option would be a Mikrotik on an X86
> like Baltic. But at that point, might as well go Juniper.
>
> You can't beat Mikrotik for starting out. It does everything you need and
> the price point can't be beat.
>
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:10 AM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm using Mikrotik.  Get a "cheap" 1036 right now.  When you outgrow it,
>> replace it with the bigger CCR (1072 is bigger but you need to avoid NAT
>> and such for crashes at high throughput).  The newer CCR are bigger still
>> and even cheaper, but v7 only and hence are super buggy.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 5:19 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>
>>> I think you mean transport, transit is internet access/dia/full routes,
>>> so you have 3 transit providers feeding a switch and transport back to your
>>> hut =) Mikrotik is a decent router but stay away from the 1072, the 1036 is
>>> solid but since it's using CPU instead of asic it cannot withstand many
>>> ddos attacks
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:03 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
>>> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>>>
 Dmmoffett,

 All three of my BGP routers are RouterOS.  Two are old x86 from baltic
 with the 4 port 10 gig card. One is a CCR1072.  At peak I'm pushing about
 12G total across all three.  Really haven't push the CCR to the limits yet.


 --
 Best regards,
 Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

 Myakka Communications
 www.Myakka.com

 --

 Tuesday, January 18, 2022, 2:33:02 PM, you wrote:


 ….and I still love Mikrotik’s, but the CCR1072 crash/reboot issue was a
 big turnoff.

 *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com 
 *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:32 PM
 *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
 *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

 The only thing I’d be careful of is Juniper changed pricing recently,
 so don’t trust any price you hear that isn’t from 2022.

 I’m really loving Arista these days.  An Arista L3 switch would
 probably do everything you’d want.  They do have routers too of course, but
 switches are cheap enough to keep a spare.  Arista’s command syntax is
 identical to Cisco, so there’s that too.

 -Adam


 *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
 *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:27 PM
 *To:* Chuck McCown 
 *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

 Yeah just get a juniper, even if you go used, i think it's a front
 loaded investment with a great roi in headaches saved

 On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:25 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

 We are actually routerless at the moment, buying access from another
 company that has some Cisco big iron there.
 It was a great way to start out from scratch but the economics are such
 that it will pay us to do our own router and own DIA now.

 *From:* TJ Trout
 *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:23 PM
 *To:* Chuck McCown
 *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 *Subject:* Re: Dual DIA router

 What's your current router? I'm sure it can do many connections using a
 switch and vlans. What is the specs you want and budget? Baltic vengence 3
 is a good option, or mx204 is the best option probably but 25k+

 On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:13 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

 To do dual DIA we are going to have to do a new router.  Or used
 router.  Last time down this road we were kicking tires on Juniper.  I
 don’t have a ton of customers on my new system yet but I can foresee 2000
 in the next 2-3 years.
 What would be a good value there?  I really don’t want a $25K router
 right now.

 *From:* Chuck McCown via AF

Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

2022-01-19 Thread Mike Hammett 
Juniper, Cisco, etc. really are no better than Mikrotik at reliability. Support 
really isn't any better either. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Luthman"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:03:49 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router 


I don't understand, you don't want to spend $25k but you want a router good 
enough for 5000 customers? That's 250k-500k/month minimum. Kind of sounds like 
you want a Juniper now (which also, based on what I've heard has its own fair 
share of stupid bugs - like its own DDOS protection locking legit configuration 
from getting in causing an outage for half a day for a very big WISP). 


On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 11:01 AM Chuck McCown via AF < af@af.afmug.com > wrote: 






I have two issues with MT. It has a sketchy track record over the years. Some 
models work, others not so well. There was a period in the early days that 
there were twentyeleven versions of the software and you had to pick and choose 
the version for what you wanted to do. I know that was almost 20 years ago, but 
I still see squirrely things posted now and then. 

I don’t want to do a forklift upgrade in a year or two. Just buy something now 
that will take me to 5000 customers and be done with it. 




From: can...@believewireless.net 
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 8:24 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router 



I'd HIGHLY recommend starting with Mikrotik. Go with a CCR2004 or the newer 
CCR2116. We have two locations where 
we upgraded them to V7.1.1 and they are stable even with BGP/OSPF, etc. Next 
best option would be a Mikrotik on an X86 
like Baltic. But at that point, might as well go Juniper. 

You can't beat Mikrotik for starting out. It does everything you need and the 
price point can't be beat. 


On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:10 AM Josh Luthman < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > 
wrote: 



I'm using Mikrotik. Get a "cheap" 1036 right now. When you outgrow it, replace 
it with the bigger CCR (1072 is bigger but you need to avoid NAT and such for 
crashes at high throughput). The newer CCR are bigger still and even cheaper, 
but v7 only and hence are super buggy. 


On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 5:19 PM TJ Trout < t...@voltbb.com > wrote: 



I think you mean transport, transit is internet access/dia/full routes, so you 
have 3 transit providers feeding a switch and transport back to your hut =) 
Mikrotik is a decent router but stay away from the 1072, the 1036 is solid but 
since it's using CPU instead of asic it cannot withstand many ddos attacks 


On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:03 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies < m...@mailmt.com > 
wrote: 



Dmmoffett, 

All three of my BGP routers are RouterOS. Two are old x86 from baltic with the 
4 port 10 gig card. One is a CCR1072. At peak I'm pushing about 12G total 
across all three. Really haven't push the CCR to the limits yet. 


-- 
Best regards, 
Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com 

Myakka Communications 
www.Myakka.com 

-- 

Tuesday, January 18, 2022, 2:33:02 PM, you wrote: 



….and I still love Mikrotik’s, but the CCR1072 crash/reboot issue was a 
big turnoff. 

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com < dmmoff...@gmail.com > 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:32 PM 
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: RE: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router 

The only thing I’d be careful of is Juniper changed pricing recently, so don’t 
trust any price you hear that isn’t from 2022. 

I’m really loving Arista these days. An Arista L3 switch would probably do 
everything you’d want. They do have routers too of course, but switches are 
cheap enough to keep a spare. Arista’s command syntax is identical to Cisco, so 
there’s that too. 

-Adam 


From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of TJ Trout 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:27 PM 
To: Chuck McCown < ch...@go-mtc.com > 
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router 

Yeah just get a juniper, even if you go used, i think it's a front loaded 
investment with a great roi in headaches saved 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:25 AM Chuck McCown < ch...@go-mtc.com > wrote: 


We are actually routerless at the moment, buying access from another 
company that has some Cisco big iron there. 
It was a great way to start out from scratch but the economics are such that it 
will pay us to do our own router and own DIA now. 

From: TJ Trout 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:23 PM 
To: Chuck McCown 
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: Dual DIA router 

What's your current router? I'm sure it can do many connections using a switch 
and vlans. What is the specs you want and budget? Baltic vengence 3 is a good 
option, or mx204 is the best option probably but 25k+ 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:13 AM Chuck McCown <

Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

2022-01-19 Thread Mike Hammett 
An x86-based Mikrotik solution (likely via a CHR VM) would be your best bet. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown via AF"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Cc: "Chuck McCown"  
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:00:32 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router 




I have two issues with MT. It has a sketchy track record over the years. Some 
models work, others not so well. There was a period in the early days that 
there were twentyeleven versions of the software and you had to pick and choose 
the version for what you wanted to do. I know that was almost 20 years ago, but 
I still see squirrely things posted now and then. 

I don’t want to do a forklift upgrade in a year or two. Just buy something now 
that will take me to 5000 customers and be done with it. 




From: can...@believewireless.net 
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 8:24 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router 



I'd HIGHLY recommend starting with Mikrotik. Go with a CCR2004 or the newer 
CCR2116. We have two locations where 
we upgraded them to V7.1.1 and they are stable even with BGP/OSPF, etc. Next 
best option would be a Mikrotik on an X86 
like Baltic. But at that point, might as well go Juniper. 

You can't beat Mikrotik for starting out. It does everything you need and the 
price point can't be beat. 


On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:10 AM Josh Luthman < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > 
wrote: 



I'm using Mikrotik. Get a "cheap" 1036 right now. When you outgrow it, replace 
it with the bigger CCR (1072 is bigger but you need to avoid NAT and such for 
crashes at high throughput). The newer CCR are bigger still and even cheaper, 
but v7 only and hence are super buggy. 


On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 5:19 PM TJ Trout < t...@voltbb.com > wrote: 



I think you mean transport, transit is internet access/dia/full routes, so you 
have 3 transit providers feeding a switch and transport back to your hut =) 
Mikrotik is a decent router but stay away from the 1072, the 1036 is solid but 
since it's using CPU instead of asic it cannot withstand many ddos attacks 


On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:03 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies < m...@mailmt.com > 
wrote: 



Dmmoffett, 

All three of my BGP routers are RouterOS. Two are old x86 from baltic with the 
4 port 10 gig card. One is a CCR1072. At peak I'm pushing about 12G total 
across all three. Really haven't push the CCR to the limits yet. 


-- 
Best regards, 
Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com 

Myakka Communications 
www.Myakka.com 

-- 

Tuesday, January 18, 2022, 2:33:02 PM, you wrote: 



….and I still love Mikrotik’s, but the CCR1072 crash/reboot issue was a 
big turnoff. 

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com < dmmoff...@gmail.com > 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:32 PM 
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: RE: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router 

The only thing I’d be careful of is Juniper changed pricing recently, so don’t 
trust any price you hear that isn’t from 2022. 

I’m really loving Arista these days. An Arista L3 switch would probably do 
everything you’d want. They do have routers too of course, but switches are 
cheap enough to keep a spare. Arista’s command syntax is identical to Cisco, so 
there’s that too. 

-Adam 


From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of TJ Trout 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:27 PM 
To: Chuck McCown < ch...@go-mtc.com > 
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router 

Yeah just get a juniper, even if you go used, i think it's a front loaded 
investment with a great roi in headaches saved 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:25 AM Chuck McCown < ch...@go-mtc.com > wrote: 


We are actually routerless at the moment, buying access from another 
company that has some Cisco big iron there. 
It was a great way to start out from scratch but the economics are such that it 
will pay us to do our own router and own DIA now. 

From: TJ Trout 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:23 PM 
To: Chuck McCown 
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: Dual DIA router 

What's your current router? I'm sure it can do many connections using a switch 
and vlans. What is the specs you want and budget? Baltic vengence 3 is a good 
option, or mx204 is the best option probably but 25k+ 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:13 AM Chuck McCown < ch...@go-mtc.com > wrote: 


To do dual DIA we are going to have to do a new router. Or used router. 
Last time down this road we were kicking tires on Juniper. I don’t have a ton 
of customers on my new system yet but I can foresee 2000 in the next 2-3 years. 
What would be a good value there? I really don’t want a $25K router right now. 

From: Chuck McCown via AF 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:55 AM 
To: TJ Trout 
Cc: Chuck McCown ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

2022-01-19 Thread Josh Luthman 
I don't understand, you don't want to spend $25k but you want a router good
enough for 5000 customers?  That's 250k-500k/month minimum.  Kind of sounds
like you want a Juniper now (which also, based on what I've heard has its
own fair share of stupid bugs - like its own DDOS protection locking legit
configuration from getting in causing an outage for half a day for a very
big WISP).

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 11:01 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> I have two issues with MT.  It has a sketchy track record over the years.
> Some models work, others not so well.  There was a period in the early days
> that there were twentyeleven versions of the software and you had to pick
> and choose the version for what you wanted to do.  I know that was almost
> 20 years ago, but I still see squirrely things posted now and then.
>
> I don’t want to do a forklift upgrade in a  year or two.  Just buy
> something now that will take me to 5000 customers and be done with it.
>
> *From:* can...@believewireless.net
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 8:24 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router
>
> I'd HIGHLY recommend starting with Mikrotik. Go with a CCR2004 or the
> newer CCR2116. We have two locations where
> we upgraded them to V7.1.1 and they are stable even with BGP/OSPF, etc.
> Next best option would be a Mikrotik on an X86
> like Baltic. But at that point, might as well go Juniper.
>
> You can't beat Mikrotik for starting out. It does everything you need and
> the price point can't be beat.
>
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:10 AM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm using Mikrotik.  Get a "cheap" 1036 right now.  When you outgrow it,
>> replace it with the bigger CCR (1072 is bigger but you need to avoid NAT
>> and such for crashes at high throughput).  The newer CCR are bigger still
>> and even cheaper, but v7 only and hence are super buggy.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 5:19 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>
>>> I think you mean transport, transit is internet access/dia/full routes,
>>> so you have 3 transit providers feeding a switch and transport back to your
>>> hut =) Mikrotik is a decent router but stay away from the 1072, the 1036 is
>>> solid but since it's using CPU instead of asic it cannot withstand many
>>> ddos attacks
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:03 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
>>> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>>>
 Dmmoffett,

 All three of my BGP routers are RouterOS.  Two are old x86 from baltic
 with the 4 port 10 gig card. One is a CCR1072.  At peak I'm pushing about
 12G total across all three.  Really haven't push the CCR to the limits yet.


 --
 Best regards,
 Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

 Myakka Communications
 www.Myakka.com

 --

 Tuesday, January 18, 2022, 2:33:02 PM, you wrote:


 ….and I still love Mikrotik’s, but the CCR1072 crash/reboot issue was a
 big turnoff.

 *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com 
 *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:32 PM
 *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
 *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

 The only thing I’d be careful of is Juniper changed pricing recently,
 so don’t trust any price you hear that isn’t from 2022.

 I’m really loving Arista these days.  An Arista L3 switch would
 probably do everything you’d want.  They do have routers too of course, but
 switches are cheap enough to keep a spare.  Arista’s command syntax is
 identical to Cisco, so there’s that too.

 -Adam


 *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
 *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:27 PM
 *To:* Chuck McCown 
 *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

 Yeah just get a juniper, even if you go used, i think it's a front
 loaded investment with a great roi in headaches saved

 On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:25 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

 We are actually routerless at the moment, buying access from another
 company that has some Cisco big iron there.
 It was a great way to start out from scratch but the economics are such
 that it will pay us to do our own router and own DIA now.

 *From:* TJ Trout
 *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:23 PM
 *To:* Chuck McCown
 *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 *Subject:* Re: Dual DIA router

 What's your current router? I'm sure it can do many connections using a
 switch and vlans. What is the specs you want and budget? Baltic vengence 3
 is a good option, or mx204 is the best option probably but 25k+

 On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:13 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

 To do dual DIA we are going to have to do a new router.  Or used
 router.  Last time down this road we were kicking tires on Juniper.  I
 don’t have a ton of customers on my new system yet but I can foresee 2000
 in the next 2-3 years.

Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

2022-01-19 Thread Josh Luthman 
Simply based on the complaints and well done bug reports (ie excluding v7
is junk cuz I say so) I wouldn't do v7 in production.  I won't do it at
home!  I just don't have the time to screw with it.

I would imagine it would OSPF nicely to the other routers, be it Cisco or a
v6 Mikrotik, but the problem I have is the v7 router would have problems of
its own.

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:37 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> Josh,
>
> I was wondering if anyone has tried v7 in mixed production with v6 units.
> They are coming out with some nice new HW, but it runs only v7.  I guess
> that is a good thing being they are not wasting their time putting old SW
> on the new HW.  I much rather them concentrate on the new stuff.  But, is
> the new stuff ready for production?  Also, does it play well (OSPF) with
> the old stuff?
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>
> Myakka Communications
> www.Myakka.com
>
> --
>
> Wednesday, January 19, 2022, 10:09:10 AM, you wrote:
>
>
> I'm using Mikrotik.  Get a "cheap" 1036 right now.  When you outgrow it,
> replace it with the bigger CCR (1072 is bigger but you need to avoid NAT
> and such for crashes at high throughput).  The newer CCR are bigger still
> and even cheaper, but v7 only and hence are super buggy.
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 5:19 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
> I think you mean transport, transit is internet access/dia/full routes, so
> you have 3 transit providers feeding a switch and transport back to your
> hut =) Mikrotik is a decent router but stay away from the 1072, the 1036 is
> solid but since it's using CPU instead of asic it cannot withstand many
> ddos attacks
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:03 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>
> Dmmoffett,
>
> All three of my BGP routers are RouterOS.  Two are old x86 from baltic
> with the 4 port 10 gig card. One is a CCR1072.  At peak I'm pushing about
> 12G total across all three.  Really haven't push the CCR to the limits yet.
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>
> Myakka Communications
> www.Myakka.com
>
> --
>
> Tuesday, January 18, 2022, 2:33:02 PM, you wrote:
>
>
> ….and I still love Mikrotik’s, but the CCR1072 crash/reboot issue was a
> big turnoff.
>
> *From: *dmmoff...@gmail.com 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:32 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router
>
> The only thing I’d be careful of is Juniper changed pricing recently, so
> don’t trust any price you hear that isn’t from 2022.
>
> I’m really loving Arista these days.  An Arista L3 switch would probably
> do everything you’d want.  They do have routers too of course, but switches
> are cheap enough to keep a spare.  Arista’s command syntax is identical to
> Cisco, so there’s that too.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:27 PM
> *To:* Chuck McCown 
> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router
>
> Yeah just get a juniper, even if you go used, i think it's a front loaded
> investment with a great roi in headaches saved
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:25 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> We are actually routerless at the moment, buying access from another
> company that has some Cisco big iron there.
> It was a great way to start out from scratch but the economics are such
> that it will pay us to do our own router and own DIA now.
>
> *From:* TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:23 PM
> *To:* Chuck McCown
> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: Dual DIA router
>
> What's your current router? I'm sure it can do many connections using a
> switch and vlans. What is the specs you want and budget? Baltic vengence 3
> is a good option, or mx204 is the best option probably but 25k+
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:13 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> To do dual DIA we are going to have to do a new router.  Or used router.
> Last time down this road we were kicking tires on Juniper.  I don’t have a
> ton of customers on my new system yet but I can foresee 2000 in the next
> 2-3 years.
> What would be a good value there?  I really don’t want a $25K router right
> now.
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:55 AM
> *To:* TJ Trout
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
>
> Not sure I want to have two providers at the moment...  The problem is
> having the two backhaul circuits.  Maybe I could vlan them.
> No harm in quoting HE.  Anyone got a sales contact for me in Utah?
>
> *From:* TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:47 AM
> *To:* Chuck McCown
> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
>
> I think HE will go 700-800 and they will usually match each other
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:35 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> $950 10G flat.  $30 for bgp.
>
> *From:* TJ

Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

2022-01-19 Thread can...@believewireless.net 
We are running V6.48.6 & V7.1.1 in a mixed environment. CHRs and CCRs.
CCR2004s are running
V7.1.1 and zero issues so far. No reboots, no problems. BGP had some odd
tweaks but Linktechs
figured them out quickly.

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:41 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> Canopy,
>
> That new CCR2116 looks like a beast.  I would love to try one of those out
> as a BGP router.  Just worried about the new software.  It is nice to hear
> someone has them in production.  Are you in a mixed version environment?
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>
> Myakka Communications
> www.Myakka.com
>
> --
>
> Wednesday, January 19, 2022, 10:24:12 AM, you wrote:
>
>
> I'd HIGHLY recommend starting with Mikrotik. Go with a CCR2004 or the
> newer CCR2116. We have two locations where
> we upgraded them to V7.1.1 and they are stable even with BGP/OSPF, etc.
> Next best option would be a Mikrotik on an X86
> like Baltic. But at that point, might as well go Juniper.
>
> You can't beat Mikrotik for starting out. It does everything you need and
> the price point can't be beat.
>
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:10 AM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> I'm using Mikrotik.  Get a "cheap" 1036 right now.  When you outgrow it,
> replace it with the bigger CCR (1072 is bigger but you need to avoid NAT
> and such for crashes at high throughput).  The newer CCR are bigger still
> and even cheaper, but v7 only and hence are super buggy.
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 5:19 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
> I think you mean transport, transit is internet access/dia/full routes, so
> you have 3 transit providers feeding a switch and transport back to your
> hut =) Mikrotik is a decent router but stay away from the 1072, the 1036 is
> solid but since it's using CPU instead of asic it cannot withstand many
> ddos attacks
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:03 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>
> Dmmoffett,
>
> All three of my BGP routers are RouterOS.  Two are old x86 from baltic
> with the 4 port 10 gig card. One is a CCR1072.  At peak I'm pushing about
> 12G total across all three.  Really haven't push the CCR to the limits yet.
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>
> Myakka Communications
> www.Myakka.com
>
> --
>
> Tuesday, January 18, 2022, 2:33:02 PM, you wrote:
>
>
> ….and I still love Mikrotik’s, but the CCR1072 crash/reboot issue was a
> big turnoff.
>
> *From: *dmmoff...@gmail.com 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:32 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router
>
> The only thing I’d be careful of is Juniper changed pricing recently, so
> don’t trust any price you hear that isn’t from 2022.
>
> I’m really loving Arista these days.  An Arista L3 switch would probably
> do everything you’d want.  They do have routers too of course, but switches
> are cheap enough to keep a spare.  Arista’s command syntax is identical to
> Cisco, so there’s that too.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:27 PM
> *To:* Chuck McCown 
> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router
>
> Yeah just get a juniper, even if you go used, i think it's a front loaded
> investment with a great roi in headaches saved
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:25 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> We are actually routerless at the moment, buying access from another
> company that has some Cisco big iron there.
> It was a great way to start out from scratch but the economics are such
> that it will pay us to do our own router and own DIA now.
>
> *From:* TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:23 PM
> *To:* Chuck McCown
> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: Dual DIA router
>
> What's your current router? I'm sure it can do many connections using a
> switch and vlans. What is the specs you want and budget? Baltic vengence 3
> is a good option, or mx204 is the best option probably but 25k+
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:13 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> To do dual DIA we are going to have to do a new router.  Or used router.
> Last time down this road we were kicking tires on Juniper.  I don’t have a
> ton of customers on my new system yet but I can foresee 2000 in the next
> 2-3 years.
> What would be a good value there?  I really don’t want a $25K router right
> now.
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:55 AM
> *To:* TJ Trout
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
>
> Not sure I want to have two providers at the moment...  The problem is
> having the two backhaul circuits.  Maybe I could vlan them.
> No harm in quoting HE.  Anyone got a sales contact for me in Utah?
>
> *From:* TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:47 AM
> *To:* Chuck McCown
> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
>
> I think

Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

2022-01-19 Thread Chuck McCown via AF 
I have two issues with MT.  It has a sketchy track record over the years.  Some 
models work, others not so well.  There was a period in the early days that 
there were twentyeleven versions of the software and you had to pick and choose 
the version for what you wanted to do.  I know that was almost 20 years ago, 
but I still see squirrely things posted now and then.  

I don’t want to do a forklift upgrade in a  year or two.  Just buy something 
now that will take me to 5000 customers and be done with it.  

From: can...@believewireless.net 
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 8:24 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

I'd HIGHLY recommend starting with Mikrotik. Go with a CCR2004 or the newer 
CCR2116. We have two locations where
we upgraded them to V7.1.1 and they are stable even with BGP/OSPF, etc. Next 
best option would be a Mikrotik on an X86
like Baltic. But at that point, might as well go Juniper.

You can't beat Mikrotik for starting out. It does everything you need and the 
price point can't be beat.

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:10 AM Josh Luthman  
wrote:

  I'm using Mikrotik.  Get a "cheap" 1036 right now.  When you outgrow it, 
replace it with the bigger CCR (1072 is bigger but you need to avoid NAT and 
such for crashes at high throughput).  The newer CCR are bigger still and even 
cheaper, but v7 only and hence are super buggy.

  On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 5:19 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

I think you mean transport, transit is internet access/dia/full routes, so 
you have 3 transit providers feeding a switch and transport back to your hut =) 
Mikrotik is a decent router but stay away from the 1072, the 1036 is solid but 
since it's using CPU instead of asic it cannot withstand many ddos attacks

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:03 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
 wrote:

  Dmmoffett,

  All three of my BGP routers are RouterOS.  Two are old x86 from baltic 
with the 4 port 10 gig card. One is a CCR1072.  At peak I'm pushing about 12G 
total across all three.  Really haven't push the CCR to the limits yet.


  --
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Communications
  www.Myakka.com

  --

  Tuesday, January 18, 2022, 2:33:02 PM, you wrote:


   ….and I still love Mikrotik’s, but the CCR1072 crash/reboot issue 
was a big turnoff.  

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com  
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:32 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: RE: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

The only thing I’d be careful of is Juniper changed pricing 
recently, so don’t trust any price you hear that isn’t from 2022.

I’m really loving Arista these days.  An Arista L3 switch would 
probably do everything you’d want.  They do have routers too of course, but 
switches are cheap enough to keep a spare.  Arista’s command syntax is 
identical to Cisco, so there’s that too.

-Adam


From: AF  On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:27 PM
To: Chuck McCown 
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

Yeah just get a juniper, even if you go used, i think it's a front 
loaded investment with a great roi in headaches saved

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:25 AM Chuck McCown  
wrote:

 We are actually routerless at the moment, buying access from 
another company that has some Cisco big iron there.  
  It was a great way to start out from scratch but the 
economics are such that it will pay us to do our own router and own DIA now.  

  From: TJ Trout 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:23 PM
  To: Chuck McCown 
  Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: Dual DIA router

  What's your current router? I'm sure it can do many 
connections using a switch and vlans. What is the specs you want and budget? 
Baltic vengence 3 is a good option, or mx204 is the best option probably but 
25k+

  On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:13 AM Chuck McCown 
 wrote:

   To do dual DIA we are going to have to do a new router.  
Or used router.  Last time down this road we were kicking tires on Juniper.  I 
don’t have a ton of customers on my new system yet but I can foresee 2000 in 
the next 2-3 years.  
What would be a good value there?  I really don’t want 
a $25K router right now.  

From: Chuck McCown via AF 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:55 AM
To: TJ Trout 
Cc: Chuck McCown ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

Not sure I want to have two

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Chuck McCown via AF 
Nice.  I used something similar in a telco central office years ago that was 
100% solar.  Worked great.  

From: Zach Underwood 
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 6:13 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

If you have not already gotten the mini splits take a look at 
https://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/ 
It has direct PV inputs when sunny it would put no load on your inverter
IT can be put in solar only mode where it will scale the cool/heat output to 
match the power it is getting PV
It can run overnight if you wish by giving in 240volt AC connection.


On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:08 PM Robert  wrote:

  I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another in the 
  future somewhere more northerly..This one is in the sunbelt of N. 
  Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP battery bank 
  through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight 
  solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of 110.  ( 
  the 220 will not run the well controller even though supposedly 
  configured for such. )I am upgrading the inverters and controller to 
  a 
  
https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt

  planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.

  I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in 
  advance before I buy myself into a corner...I'm all ears..

  thanks!!

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 

Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA) 
My website

advance-networking.com




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

2022-01-19 Thread Mark - Myakka Technologies 
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router


Canopy,

That new CCR2116 looks like a beast.  I would love to try one of those out as a BGP router.  Just worried about the new software.  It is nice to hear someone has them in production.  Are you in a mixed version environment?


--
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Communications
www.Myakka.com

--

Wednesday, January 19, 2022, 10:24:12 AM, you wrote:





I'd HIGHLY recommend starting with Mikrotik. Go with a CCR2004 or the newer CCR2116. We have two locations where
we upgraded them to V7.1.1 and they are stable even with BGP/OSPF, etc. Next best option would be a Mikrotik on an X86
like Baltic. But at that point, might as well go Juniper.

You can't beat Mikrotik for starting out. It does everything you need and the price point can't be beat.

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:10 AM Josh Luthman  wrote:




I'm using Mikrotik.  Get a "cheap" 1036 right now.  When you outgrow it, replace it with the bigger CCR (1072 is bigger but you need to avoid NAT and such for crashes at high throughput).  The newer CCR are bigger still and even cheaper, but v7 only and hence are super buggy.

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 5:19 PM TJ Trout  wrote:




I think you mean transport, transit is internet access/dia/full routes, so you have 3 transit providers feeding a switch and transport back to your hut =) Mikrotik is a decent router but stay away from the 1072, the 1036 is solid but since it's using CPU instead of asic it cannot withstand many ddos attacks

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:03 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies  wrote:




Dmmoffett,

All three of my BGP routers are RouterOS.  Two are old x86 from baltic with the 4 port 10 gig card. One is a CCR1072.  At peak I'm pushing about 12G total across all three.  Really haven't push the CCR to the limits yet.


--
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Communications
www.Myakka.com

--

Tuesday, January 18, 2022, 2:33:02 PM, you wrote:





….and I still love Mikrotik’s, but the CCR1072 crash/reboot issue was a big turnoff.  

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com  
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:32 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: RE: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

The only thing I’d be careful of is Juniper changed pricing recently, so don’t trust any price you hear that isn’t from 2022.

I’m really loving Arista these days.  An Arista L3 switch would probably do everything you’d want.  They do have routers too of course, but switches are cheap enough to keep a spare.  Arista’s command syntax is identical to Cisco, so there’s that too.

-Adam


From: AF  On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:27 PM
To: Chuck McCown 
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

Yeah just get a juniper, even if you go used, i think it's a front loaded investment with a great roi in headaches saved

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:25 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:




We are actually routerless at the moment, buying access from another company that has some Cisco big iron there.  
It was a great way to start out from scratch but the economics are such that it will pay us to do our own router and own DIA now.  

From: TJ Trout 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:23 PM
To: Chuck McCown 
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: Dual DIA router

What's your current router? I'm sure it can do many connections using a switch and vlans. What is the specs you want and budget? Baltic vengence 3 is a good option, or mx204 is the best option probably but 25k+

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:13 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:




To do dual DIA we are going to have to do a new router.  Or used router.  Last time down this road we were kicking tires on Juniper.  I don’t have a ton of customers on my new system yet but I can foresee 2000 in the next 2-3 years.  
What would be a good value there?  I really don’t want a $25K router right now.  

From: Chuck McCown via AF 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:55 AM
To: TJ Trout 
Cc: Chuck McCown ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

Not sure I want to have two providers at the moment...  The problem is having the two backhaul circuits.  Maybe I could vlan them.  
No harm in quoting HE.  Anyone got a sales contact for me in Utah?

From: TJ Trout 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:47 AM
To: Chuck McCown 
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

I think HE will go 700-800 and they will usually match each other

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:35 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:




$950 10G flat.  $30 for bgp.  

From: TJ Trout 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA

Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

2022-01-19 Thread Mark - Myakka Technologies 
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router


Josh,

I was wondering if anyone has tried v7 in mixed production with v6 units.  They are coming out with some nice new HW, but it runs only v7.  I guess that is a good thing being they are not wasting their time putting old SW on the new HW.  I much rather them concentrate on the new stuff.  But, is the new stuff ready for production?  Also, does it play well (OSPF) with the old stuff? 

--
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Communications
www.Myakka.com

--

Wednesday, January 19, 2022, 10:09:10 AM, you wrote:





I'm using Mikrotik.  Get a "cheap" 1036 right now.  When you outgrow it, replace it with the bigger CCR (1072 is bigger but you need to avoid NAT and such for crashes at high throughput).  The newer CCR are bigger still and even cheaper, but v7 only and hence are super buggy.

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 5:19 PM TJ Trout  wrote:




I think you mean transport, transit is internet access/dia/full routes, so you have 3 transit providers feeding a switch and transport back to your hut =) Mikrotik is a decent router but stay away from the 1072, the 1036 is solid but since it's using CPU instead of asic it cannot withstand many ddos attacks

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:03 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies  wrote:




Dmmoffett,

All three of my BGP routers are RouterOS.  Two are old x86 from baltic with the 4 port 10 gig card. One is a CCR1072.  At peak I'm pushing about 12G total across all three.  Really haven't push the CCR to the limits yet.


--
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Communications
www.Myakka.com

--

Tuesday, January 18, 2022, 2:33:02 PM, you wrote:





….and I still love Mikrotik’s, but the CCR1072 crash/reboot issue was a big turnoff.  

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com  
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:32 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: RE: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

The only thing I’d be careful of is Juniper changed pricing recently, so don’t trust any price you hear that isn’t from 2022.

I’m really loving Arista these days.  An Arista L3 switch would probably do everything you’d want.  They do have routers too of course, but switches are cheap enough to keep a spare.  Arista’s command syntax is identical to Cisco, so there’s that too.

-Adam


From: AF  On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:27 PM
To: Chuck McCown 
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

Yeah just get a juniper, even if you go used, i think it's a front loaded investment with a great roi in headaches saved

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:25 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:




We are actually routerless at the moment, buying access from another company that has some Cisco big iron there.  
It was a great way to start out from scratch but the economics are such that it will pay us to do our own router and own DIA now.  

From: TJ Trout 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:23 PM
To: Chuck McCown 
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: Dual DIA router

What's your current router? I'm sure it can do many connections using a switch and vlans. What is the specs you want and budget? Baltic vengence 3 is a good option, or mx204 is the best option probably but 25k+

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:13 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:




To do dual DIA we are going to have to do a new router.  Or used router.  Last time down this road we were kicking tires on Juniper.  I don’t have a ton of customers on my new system yet but I can foresee 2000 in the next 2-3 years.  
What would be a good value there?  I really don’t want a $25K router right now.  

From: Chuck McCown via AF 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:55 AM
To: TJ Trout 
Cc: Chuck McCown ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

Not sure I want to have two providers at the moment...  The problem is having the two backhaul circuits.  Maybe I could vlan them.  
No harm in quoting HE.  Anyone got a sales contact for me in Utah?

From: TJ Trout 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:47 AM
To: Chuck McCown 
Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

I think HE will go 700-800 and they will usually match each other

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:35 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:




$950 10G flat.  $30 for bgp.  

From: TJ Trout 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

Cogent charges for bgp so ask for that in the quote if you need it. 

Hurricane electric is 700-800$ on a 36mo term I believe, some UT locations with few customers might be an extra $500.  

Telia is a very good option but won't be quite as inexpensive as Cogent or HE, but they have really good routes and the full

Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

2022-01-19 Thread can...@believewireless.net 
I'd HIGHLY recommend starting with Mikrotik. Go with a CCR2004 or the newer
CCR2116. We have two locations where
we upgraded them to V7.1.1 and they are stable even with BGP/OSPF, etc.
Next best option would be a Mikrotik on an X86
like Baltic. But at that point, might as well go Juniper.

You can't beat Mikrotik for starting out. It does everything you need and
the price point can't be beat.

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:10 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> I'm using Mikrotik.  Get a "cheap" 1036 right now.  When you outgrow it,
> replace it with the bigger CCR (1072 is bigger but you need to avoid NAT
> and such for crashes at high throughput).  The newer CCR are bigger still
> and even cheaper, but v7 only and hence are super buggy.
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 5:19 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> I think you mean transport, transit is internet access/dia/full routes,
>> so you have 3 transit providers feeding a switch and transport back to your
>> hut =) Mikrotik is a decent router but stay away from the 1072, the 1036 is
>> solid but since it's using CPU instead of asic it cannot withstand many
>> ddos attacks
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:03 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
>> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dmmoffett,
>>>
>>> All three of my BGP routers are RouterOS.  Two are old x86 from baltic
>>> with the 4 port 10 gig card. One is a CCR1072.  At peak I'm pushing about
>>> 12G total across all three.  Really haven't push the CCR to the limits yet.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best regards,
>>> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>>>
>>> Myakka Communications
>>> www.Myakka.com
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Tuesday, January 18, 2022, 2:33:02 PM, you wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> ….and I still love Mikrotik’s, but the CCR1072 crash/reboot issue was a
>>> big turnoff.
>>>
>>> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com 
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:32 PM
>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>>> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router
>>>
>>> The only thing I’d be careful of is Juniper changed pricing recently, so
>>> don’t trust any price you hear that isn’t from 2022.
>>>
>>> I’m really loving Arista these days.  An Arista L3 switch would probably
>>> do everything you’d want.  They do have routers too of course, but switches
>>> are cheap enough to keep a spare.  Arista’s command syntax is identical to
>>> Cisco, so there’s that too.
>>>
>>> -Adam
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:27 PM
>>> *To:* Chuck McCown 
>>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router
>>>
>>> Yeah just get a juniper, even if you go used, i think it's a front
>>> loaded investment with a great roi in headaches saved
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:25 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
>>> We are actually routerless at the moment, buying access from another
>>> company that has some Cisco big iron there.
>>> It was a great way to start out from scratch but the economics are such
>>> that it will pay us to do our own router and own DIA now.
>>>
>>> *From:* TJ Trout
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:23 PM
>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: Dual DIA router
>>>
>>> What's your current router? I'm sure it can do many connections using a
>>> switch and vlans. What is the specs you want and budget? Baltic vengence 3
>>> is a good option, or mx204 is the best option probably but 25k+
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:13 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
>>> To do dual DIA we are going to have to do a new router.  Or used
>>> router.  Last time down this road we were kicking tires on Juniper.  I
>>> don’t have a ton of customers on my new system yet but I can foresee 2000
>>> in the next 2-3 years.
>>> What would be a good value there?  I really don’t want a $25K router
>>> right now.
>>>
>>> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:55 AM
>>> *To:* TJ Trout
>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
>>>
>>> Not sure I want to have two providers at the moment...  The problem is
>>> having the two backhaul circuits.  Maybe I could vlan them.
>>> No harm in quoting HE.  Anyone got a sales contact for me in Utah?
>>>
>>> *From:* TJ Trout
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:47 AM
>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
>>>
>>> I think HE will go 700-800 and they will usually match each other
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:35 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
>>> $950 10G flat.  $30 for bgp.
>>>
>>> *From:* TJ Trout
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:29 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
>>>
>>> Cogent charges for bgp so ask for that in the quote if you need it.
>>>
>>> Hurricane electric is 700-800$ on a 36mo term I believe, some UT
>>> locations with few customers might be an extra $500.
>>>
>>> Telia

Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router

2022-01-19 Thread Josh Luthman 
I'm using Mikrotik.  Get a "cheap" 1036 right now.  When you outgrow it,
replace it with the bigger CCR (1072 is bigger but you need to avoid NAT
and such for crashes at high throughput).  The newer CCR are bigger still
and even cheaper, but v7 only and hence are super buggy.

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 5:19 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> I think you mean transport, transit is internet access/dia/full routes, so
> you have 3 transit providers feeding a switch and transport back to your
> hut =) Mikrotik is a decent router but stay away from the 1072, the 1036 is
> solid but since it's using CPU instead of asic it cannot withstand many
> ddos attacks
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:03 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>
>> Dmmoffett,
>>
>> All three of my BGP routers are RouterOS.  Two are old x86 from baltic
>> with the 4 port 10 gig card. One is a CCR1072.  At peak I'm pushing about
>> 12G total across all three.  Really haven't push the CCR to the limits yet.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>>
>> Myakka Communications
>> www.Myakka.com
>>
>> --
>>
>> Tuesday, January 18, 2022, 2:33:02 PM, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> ….and I still love Mikrotik’s, but the CCR1072 crash/reboot issue was a
>> big turnoff.
>>
>> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com 
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:32 PM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router
>>
>> The only thing I’d be careful of is Juniper changed pricing recently, so
>> don’t trust any price you hear that isn’t from 2022.
>>
>> I’m really loving Arista these days.  An Arista L3 switch would probably
>> do everything you’d want.  They do have routers too of course, but switches
>> are cheap enough to keep a spare.  Arista’s command syntax is identical to
>> Cisco, so there’s that too.
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:27 PM
>> *To:* Chuck McCown 
>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dual DIA router
>>
>> Yeah just get a juniper, even if you go used, i think it's a front loaded
>> investment with a great roi in headaches saved
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:25 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>> We are actually routerless at the moment, buying access from another
>> company that has some Cisco big iron there.
>> It was a great way to start out from scratch but the economics are such
>> that it will pay us to do our own router and own DIA now.
>>
>> *From:* TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:23 PM
>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: Dual DIA router
>>
>> What's your current router? I'm sure it can do many connections using a
>> switch and vlans. What is the specs you want and budget? Baltic vengence 3
>> is a good option, or mx204 is the best option probably but 25k+
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:13 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>> To do dual DIA we are going to have to do a new router.  Or used router.
>> Last time down this road we were kicking tires on Juniper.  I don’t have a
>> ton of customers on my new system yet but I can foresee 2000 in the next
>> 2-3 years.
>> What would be a good value there?  I really don’t want a $25K router
>> right now.
>>
>> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:55 AM
>> *To:* TJ Trout
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
>>
>> Not sure I want to have two providers at the moment...  The problem is
>> having the two backhaul circuits.  Maybe I could vlan them.
>> No harm in quoting HE.  Anyone got a sales contact for me in Utah?
>>
>> *From:* TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:47 AM
>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>> *Cc:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
>>
>> I think HE will go 700-800 and they will usually match each other
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 10:35 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>> $950 10G flat.  $30 for bgp.
>>
>> *From:* TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2022 11:29 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
>>
>> Cogent charges for bgp so ask for that in the quote if you need it.
>>
>> Hurricane electric is 700-800$ on a 36mo term I believe, some UT
>> locations with few customers might be an extra $500.
>>
>> Telia is a very good option but won't be quite as inexpensive as Cogent
>> or HE, but they have really good routes and the full internet.
>>
>> I can be your advocate on these types of orders, one email and I'll
>> aggregate the quotes and send them back to you, carriers pay me 10% or so
>> out of their side of the deal, you still pay the same.
>>
>> TJ
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 9:36 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Shopping for DIA again.  Asking Cogent to freshen up a quote.  A couple
>> of years ago they quoted a special 10G flat for $1200/month.  Hopefully
>> that

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Zach Underwood 
If you have not already gotten the mini splits take a look at
https://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/
It has direct PV inputs when sunny it would put no load on your inverter
IT can be put in solar only mode where it will scale the cool/heat output
to match the power it is getting PV
It can run overnight if you wish by giving in 240volt AC connection.


On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:08 PM Robert  wrote:

> I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another in the
> future somewhere more northerly..This one is in the sunbelt of N.
> Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP battery bank
> through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight
> solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of 110.  (
> the 220 will not run the well controller even though supposedly
> configured for such. )I am upgrading the inverters and controller to
> a
>
> https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt
>
> planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.
>
> I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in
> advance before I buy myself into a corner...I'm all ears..
>
> thanks!!
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
My website 
advance-networking.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Chuck McCown via AF 
Say a similar on grid home used 500 kWh per month. That is equivalent to a 
steady state load of almost 700 watts.  Round up to 1kW.  So 10 kW panel 
minimum.  Panels are cheap these days.  I would do 20kW if you can.  Batts are 
not so cheap.  That is where you can save some big money with a modest 
generator.  Propane is nice.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
> 


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Chuck McCown via AF 
10x average load for panels.  3 days of battery plus backup generator.   Have 
generator control based on battery voltage.  Overcast days yield 5% of full sun.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 18, 2022, at 5:07 PM, Robert  wrote:
> 
> I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another in the future 
> somewhere more northerly..This one is in the sunbelt of N. Nevada and 
> currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP battery bank through 
> currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight solar inverters 
> to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of 110.  ( the 220 will not run 
> the well controller even though supposedly configured for such. )I am 
> upgrading the inverters and controller to a 
> https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt
> 
> planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.
> 
> I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in advance 
> before I buy myself into a corner...I'm all ears..
> 
> thanks!!
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com