Re: [AFMUG] AF5x Link won't stay Linked

[Sam Morris]

I've had radios do that when the passwords didn't match. Connect for a 
second or two, then drop off. Connect for a second or two, then drop off.



On 4/4/2017 6:55 PM, Nate Burke wrote:

I had a newly installed AF5x link running for 4 days, then just like a
light switch, it dropped out and now won't stay connected.  SA looks
clean on both sides and I've tried multiple frequencies.  When it does
link for a couple seconds, signal levels seem fine, so alignment looks
good, it just won't stay connected.  It is at the same location as an
AF5 radio,  but I tried running the 5x in a different band, as well as
split tx/rx to match the AF5 radio.  Is there something stupid I'm
missing?  One end of the link is 1.7 miles and 3 degrees off the path
from an Airport Radar like this one https://youtu.be/OXpqA3BvLLg?t=51 .
But nothing is showing up in SA as being an issue.  Is it possible that
something changed with the Radar station that's desensitizing one of the
receivers, but not showing up in the SA?  It went down at almost exactly
4am on Sunday morning.  That seems like the time that changes would be
being made.

If I swap the Master/slave ends, I can see the beacon in the SA clearly
standing out (At the same levels) on both ends against the background
noise, however the SA's do look different, in that one direction, the
Waterfall graph is filled with the Beacons, but the other direction,
there are gaps in the waterfall view.  Scan range is set equal on the 2
scans, and the settings of the master radios are equal.  Could this be
indicative of a bad transmitter on one unit?

Re: [AFMUG] OT - Oroville dam

[Sam Morris]

Jerry Brown then: Trump is not my president!

Jerry Brown now: President Trump, will you please give us some money?

:)

On 2/13/2017 1:28 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

are they opening dams downstream?

they really could truck in a bunch of 4 foot tile to siphon over the
banks and direct the flow past the work areas, close the dam gates and
initiate the repairs. I dont think I would want to be working the boats
placing the tile topside though

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 1:20 PM, Robert Andrews > wrote:

Putting plates into a waterflow of that volume will pretty much be
certain to rip out of the concrete or create erosion of the concrete
around the attachment points.   Cavitation is a bitch...   Right now
they can't stop the flow.   Also pretty much most of the spillway
below the hole is gone, so there isn't a lot to attach it to.   The
turbines are shut down right now because the erosion has created a
dam in the stream that has raised the water levels upstream to the
point they cannot operate the turbines.   The turbines were maxed
out at 15K cfs up to that point.   Yeah, I have been pretty much
obsessing over this... My inlaws were stuck going nowhere in Yuba
city last night for 4 hours in gridlock ( at one point not moving
for 2 hours. ) before deciding it was safer at the house on the
second floor...



On 02/13/2017 10:36 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Easy to armchair quarterback but I would think they could bolt 1
inch
plates over the hole in the main spillway, put some I beam piles
under
the plates and open it back up.  At least until they take some
inches
off the reservoir.  I wonder if there is a way they can set the
angle on
the turbines to waste more water there too.

-Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 11:28 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - Oroville dam

As of this morning they are saying the regular spillway is
supporting
the 100K cfs without further damage.If that it true, then
there is
the ability to deal with what's happening over the next couple
of weeks,
which looks like 4-5 sequential storms.   We got a 4-5 day break in
weather this week but if it goes back to last months pattern we
are in
serious trouble throughout the west.  That spillway needs to do
100K cfs
for weeks to keep pressure off the hillside below the emergency
spillway.   Californa and the Feds were sued over in 2005 to put
concrete down on that hillside by the Sierra Club.   The worse case
situation is that the lake goes over the emergency spillway, it
erodes
below, the spillway fails and the hill below what was the
spillway just
keeps going away.   Moving water, and it would be a lot, would grand
canyon the hill...  It would be enough water to destroy most of the
feather river and Sacramento levee system below the dam..   That
would
be really really bad...   ( Inlaws in Yuba city )...

On 02/13/2017 08:47 AM, Jason Wilson wrote:

100,000cfs is correct.  That spillway will support
250,000cfs, but the
Feather River channel will only support about 216,000cfs.
It has been
10 years since the Channel has been stressed to this point,
last time
there were levee breaches.  Their hope is to drawdown the
reservoir 50
feet below the rim to do a couple things, one is to take
pressure off of
the presumed damaged emergency spillway.  The other is to
make room for
precip that is coming into california towards the end of the
week.  Of
course they cannot do any repairs to the facility until
after the rainy
season is over, and the snowmelt had finished.



Jason Wilson
Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736 
530-748-9608  Cell
www.remotelylocated.com 
>

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 8:31 AM, Bill Prince

>>
wrote:

 I heard a reporter saying that the water going over
that spillway
 was doing 100,000 cubic feet per second. I have a
really hard time
 visualizing that amount of water. Could also have been
  

Re: [AFMUG] OT - Oroville dam

[Sam Morris]

Here's a youtube video of Gavins Point releasing 160,000 cubic feet per 
second. They later had it running at nearly 200,000 cubic feet per second.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N-22IVjn0M



On 2/13/2017 1:30 PM, Sam Morris wrote:

On 2/13/2017 10:30 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

I heard a reporter saying that the water going over that spillway was
doing 100,000 cubic feet per second. I have a really hard time
visualizing that amount of water. Could also have been a mis-quote by
the reporter...


In 2011 when the Army Corps of Engineers mismanaged the six main stem
dams on the Missouri River, causing them all to exceed their capacity
when the upper-Mo River basin got above-average precipitation in May of
that year, they were releasing over 180,000 cubic feet of water per
second at the Gavins Point dam in South Dakota. There were a lot of
pissed-off people over that. Many people lost their homes. I had to
drive damn near 100 miles out of my way for three months to get to and
from work... but at least I didn't lose my home.

Sam




bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 2/13/2017 8:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


So the �good news� is they�re going to drop bags of rocks from
helicopters?

�

I hope my good news never involves helicopters dropping rocks.

Re: [AFMUG] OT - Oroville dam

[Sam Morris]

On 2/13/2017 10:30 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

I heard a reporter saying that the water going over that spillway was
doing 100,000 cubic feet per second. I have a really hard time
visualizing that amount of water. Could also have been a mis-quote by
the reporter...


In 2011 when the Army Corps of Engineers mismanaged the six main stem 
dams on the Missouri River, causing them all to exceed their capacity 
when the upper-Mo River basin got above-average precipitation in May of 
that year, they were releasing over 180,000 cubic feet of water per 
second at the Gavins Point dam in South Dakota. There were a lot of 
pissed-off people over that. Many people lost their homes. I had to 
drive damn near 100 miles out of my way for three months to get to and 
from work... but at least I didn't lose my home.


Sam




bp


On 2/13/2017 8:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


So the �good news� is they�re going to drop bags of rocks from
helicopters?

�

I hope my good news never involves helicopters dropping rocks.

Re: [AFMUG] OT - schoolbus fire in Utah ...

[Sam Morris]

On 1/28/2017 10:20 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

The main reason for a seat belt is to prevent you from being ejected.
Being ejected is what kills people.  In my memory school bus seats were
not padded very well at all.


Chuck, when you went to school, wouldn't they have needed to figure out 
how to attach the seatbelts to the horse, or somewhere on the buggy?




I am not suggesting a driver has to ensure the kids are buckled.  They
can take that upon themselves or there could simply be a small array of
indicators showing who was clicked and who was not.
*From:* Andrew Haninger
*Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2017 9:15 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - schoolbus fire in Utah ...
Simon on the Today I Found Out channel on YouTube goes into some of the
logic behind no seatbelts on school buses on an episode about why the
buses are yellow.
First, the seats are very well padded. Then it would take a lot of extra
time for the driver to ensure that the kids were buckled in properly
when he should be focusing more on driving safely. Lastly he says that
putting belts in the buses would be very expensive and likely wouldn't
improve injury and death rates in bus crashes.
Even most city buses don't have belts except for the driver.
On Jan 28, 2017 10:57, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

There is a bill in the Utah legislature to add seat belts.  I have
never understood why our most venerable transportation passengers
are not belted in.
*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Saturday, January 28, 2017 8:43 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT - schoolbus fire in Utah ...

… no students on bus, nobody injured … and the answer is seat
belts?  Maybe DJT needs to send in the Feds, if Utah can’t fix its
horrible carnage.  


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/video/school-bus-catches-fire-in-utah/vi-AAmkRXd

Re: [AFMUG] OT - fake tears

[Sam Morris]

The other thing to keep in mind here too is that if you listen to the 
lamestream media you'd think the entire country was against President 
Trump's immigration executive order. It's not. More people approve of it 
than disapprove. When I was in the gym this morning, I saw on the 
Corrupt News Network (CNN) (and I know it just killed them to have to 
say this) that nearly three out of four people approve of the order. 
That was spread over three different independent polls. However the 
lamestream lapdog media will only run stories of liberal moonbats 
throwing hissy fits, implying that no one agrees with the executive 
order, when that's simply not true. And that these moonbats pitching a 
bitch are in fact, in the minority.


I have to say that I can't argue with those of you complaining about the 
initial plans that would have affected holders of green cards. That was 
overreaching, and almost Democratic in nature (see below).


What can be argued is that it's some sort of "Muslim ban", which the 
lametream media would have you believe. It's not. President Trump has 
"banned" no one. He has merely put a temporary hold on the immigration 
process from war-torn states filled with terrorists - countries upon 
which 0bama dropped over 27,000 bombs and conducted countless drone 
strikes during his time in office - Democratic presidents have done this 
before as well - and more. (Democrat administrations have gone so far as 
to round up *American citizens* of Japanese heritage and lock them in 
internment camps.) It's not about Muslims. The largest Muslim country in 
the world (by far) is Indonesia. Other heavily-Muslim countries include 
India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nigeria, Egypt, Turkey, Algeria, and 
Morocco. None of these predominantly Muslim countries are mentioned in 
the Executive Order. This has nothing to do with a "Muslim ban". It has 
to do with doing a better job of vetting those coming from countries 
tied to terrorism.




On 1/30/2017 12:15 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

I would venture that is a very calculated risk. slash burn rebuild
What will happen, that has historically not happened, as is the case
with most of what your orange menace has done thus far, A games will be
forced
Up until this point, demands for strenuous and efficient vetting have
been met with "thats not who we are" "how will you know" "we dont have a
religious test" yada yada yad and all nonsense. The vast majority of
these "protesters" couldnt give a rats ass about the people actually
affected, they just want to be a part of some movement
Now, there is zero choice but to actually get some skin in the game and
build a damn process that is legitimate, or cost people their lives. had
morons put forth their A game when they should have this would be a non
issue.
The absolute worst thing that can happen is the fools who refuse to
participate allow my team to handle it, and you dont want the right
delivering their A game, vetting will quickly become enhanced
interrogation in black-sites, followed up with tossing them in a bag and
throwing em in the river, if they float theyre isis, if they drown, well
then praise be.

The demotards right now are forming legislation to nullify the order
that has zero chance of success, wasting time, tax dollars, and costing
lives. If they want to protest, resign and go out in the road with the
other idiots, let somebody with an A game step up. They should be
working across the isles to get the vetting process in play as quickly
as possible


On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 10:48 AM, Chuck McCown > wrote:

Well, one “good” thing that could possibly come from it is that the
mess it created might “might” inform the commander-in-orange of how
huge the law of unintended consequences is when dealing with the
business of the nation. If he really is as smart as his supporters
claim, he should be able to learn and hopefully mellow.
*From:* Carl Peterson
*Sent:* Monday, January 30, 2017 9:44 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - fake tears

I've been trying to avoid the OT politics on the afmug list but this
is such bullshit that I just can't leave it alone anymore. What
caused chaos was a impossibly stupid implementation of a poorly
thought out policy.  Want to restrict visas and green cards in the
future? Fine.  I disagree with it but thats how the system works.
Pull the rug out from under people who we already gave green cards
and visas with no warning?  Your fucking with the word of The United
States.  Your fucking with the lives of people and families who
trusted in us to keep are word when they took jobs in the US, quit
their jobs abroad, sold their houses and got on a plane to come here
only to be told haha fuck you, our word isn't worth shit.  Your
fucking with students and teachers who are going to school or
teaching here and flew home for a vacation or 

Re: [AFMUG] [OT: Politics] Can we?

[Sam Morris]

Vince Foster...isn't he the guy who committed suicide by shooting 
himself in the back of the head three times?



On 1/22/2017 4:44 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Fact Bill, they are dead and they all had harmed or could have harmed
Bill or Hillary.
Just go through the list one by one.  Some of it related to Waco.  Many
related to Whitewater or Monica.
Remember Vince Foster?
One or three could be a coincidence.  10 perhaps just a series of
unfortunate and unrelated events, but 63 of them?  Just happenstance?
*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2017 3:38 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [OT: Politics] Can we?

Give. Me. A. Break.

bp


On 1/22/2017 2:34 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

One thing is for certain, absolute inarguable fact, these 63 people
are as dead as you can get and all of them either spilled the beans on
the Clintons or had information that could harm the Clintons.
So, if you want to talk ethics and morals of Trump, I have not yet
heard of anyone he had whacked.  Maybe he is just better at doing it.

 1. Susan Coleman:
 2. Larry Guerrin:
 3. Kevin Ives
 4. Don Henry:
 5. Keith Coney:
 6. Keith McKaskle:
 7. Gregory Collins:
 8. Jeff Rhodes:
 9. James Milam:
10. Richard Winters:
11. Jordan Kettleson:
12. Alan Standorf:
13. Dennis Eisman: .
14. Danny Casalaro:
15. Victor Raiser:
16. R. Montgomery Raiser:
17. Paul Tully:
18. Ian Spiro:
19. Paula Gober:
20. Jim Wilhite:
21. Steve Willis,
22. Robert Williams,
23. Todd McKeahan
24. Conway LeBleu:
25. Sgt. Brian Haney,
26. Sgt. Tim Sabel,
27. Maj. William Barkley,
28. Capt. Scott Reynolds:
29. John Crawford:
30. John Wilson:
31. Paul Wilcher:
32. Vincent Foster:
33. Jon Parnell Walker:
34. Stanley Heard
35. Steven Dickson:
36. Jerry Luther Parks:
37. Ed Willey:
38. Gandy Baugh:
39. Herschell Friday:
40. Ronald Rogers:
41. Kathy Furguson:
42. Bill Shelton:
43. Stanley Huggins:
44. Paul Olson:
45. Calvin Walraven:
46. Alan G. Whicher:
47. Duane Garrett:
48. Ron Brown:.
49. Charles Meissner:
50. William Colby:
51. Admiral Jeremy Boorda:
52. Lance Herndon:
53. Neil Moody:
54. Barbara Wise:
55. Doug Adams:
56. Mary C. Mahoney:
57. Ronald Miller:
58. Sandy Hume:
59. Jim McDougal:
60. Johnny Lawhon:
61. Charles Wilbourne Miller:
62. Carlos Ghigliotti:
63. Tony Moser:

From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2017 2:41 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [OT: Politics] Can we?
He also ran a lot of less than ethical schemes to make his money. Some
were legal, some were not. You may consider that smart, and that's
your right. I do not.
On Jan 22, 2017 2:53 PM, "Jon Langeler"
mailto:jon-ispli...@michwave.net wrote:
He had money, knew to hire the right people, and made good decisions.
Historically that's not been common in politics. It's always been
mostly 'spenders'
Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.
On Jan 22, 2017, at 3:20 PM, Josh Reynolds mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com
wrote:
Net worth is in no way an indicator of intelligence. In fact, it often
happens by accident, or in spite of intelligence.
On Jan 22, 2017 2:00 PM, "Jon Langeler"
mailto:jon-ispli...@michwave.net wrote:
Considering his net worth he might he smarter than any of us. But if
your looking for miracles you might be better off reading the bible.
Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.
On Jan 22, 2017, at 2:55 PM, Jaime Solorza
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com wrote:
Empty promises just like his brain.But it's okay to grope now
Waiting for right time to do it comrades
On Jan 22, 2017 10:38 AM, "Josh Reynolds" mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com
wrote:
https://streamable.com/md28v
I still cannot settle down with the idea that a Trump presidency is
not some kind of joke taken too far...
On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 8:43 AM, Jaime Solorza
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com wrote:
Waiting on Tweets Trump or Trumps Tweet response to this..
https://news.google.com/news/amp?caurl=http%3A%2F%2Fm.huffpost.com%2Fus%2Fentry%2Fus_5884a06be4b096b4a2325818%2Famp#pt0-568751
On Jan 22, 2017 7:40 AM, "Jaime Solorza"
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com wrote:
Hey but you can buy Melanias jewelry line on new white house website.
The bullshit is going to get worse...no million and half attended
inauguration Women's March had a lot more... His ego is bruised.
Let me Trumpspeak... So sad.
On Jan 22, 2017 12:47 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm"
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:
there is this gem now
http://www.hewillnotdivide.us/
24x7 real time stream of people being idiots ala transformers guy
On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 1:40 AM, Stefan Englhardt
mailto:s...@genias.net wrote:
Today we’ve great possibilities to spread news. But it is very
difficult to get the real information unbiased. Breitbart is known to
be very biased even here over the ocean. But it seems the „normal“
media in USA is biased, too.
E.g. we never understood how Bush jun. got his second election where
it was clear he started a war based on wrong information. This is
unthinkable here. It would be 

Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?

[Sam Morris]

First sorry to bring up a month-old topic. I'm (way) behind on this forum.

It's been our understanding that CALEA has no historical logging 
requirement - that an ISP isn't required to do anything (short of having 
the means to do something, and to have it documented) until a subpoena 
is issued.


On the other hand, DMCA does have a requirement to know who was, 
historically using a given IP at a given point in time.


Are either of these correct?

Thanks
Sam


On 12/27/2016 3:15 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I think CALEA requires a best effort to log NAT assignments. Something
requires it.
We just do it so we can help the cops catch the bad guys.
*From:* David Sovereen
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2016 2:05 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?
We’ve complied with dozens of subpeonas without a problem.  Most have
been from local law enforcement agencies.  Some from the FBI.  The is
the only one that I can think of that is from the Department of Justice
and it has TONS of IP Addresses from TONS of ISPs and content
providers.  I really expected them to just say, “nevermind” when I told
them it was a shared/NAT IP, but they didn’t.
I don’t want the lawyer bill (sorry Steve Coran!), so I just sent them
the list.
FYI, there is no legal requirement to keep track of whose NAT
connections are whose.
Dave
==
MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION
David Sovereen
989-837-3790 x 151
2719 Ashman St Ste 1, Midland, MI  48640-4434
http://www.mercury.net 

On Dec 27, 2016, at 3:56 PM,   wrote:
Normally they will be pretty friendly if you call them and just tell
them your concerns.  Ask them for a name and you see if the name they
are looking for is on your list.
And it depends on who issued the subpoena too.  Sometimes for telcos
it is a domestic dispute and one person is trying to prove the other
person called the boyfriend/girlfriend etc.  I just talk to the lawyer
and try to be helpful.
If it is the FBI very well could be exploited children type of thing.
I have gotten  up in the middle of the night to help them trace a guy
that thought he was chatting with a 13 year old.
I used to have a statement that was published and given to all new
customers that I “fully cooperate with all law enforcement activities”.
*From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2016 1:51 PM
*To:* af
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Search Warranty too broad?
Oh and I agree with chuck's statement too.  In the end you're likely
going to end up giving them the list.  You don't want to be a big pain
in the rear and become a target for their retaliation.  My main
concern is that whoever actually approved the warrant approved what
you can give them (customer identity vs identities)
On Dec 27, 2016 1:47 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)"
 wrote:

I'd be concerned about privacy violations.
My response would be a call to my attorney, with the intent being to
push back just enough to make sure the judge understands the response
is going to violate the privacy of hundreds of innocent john does.  I
can think of several strategies but I'm not a lawyer so many of them
probably aren't worth a hill of beans.
On Dec 27, 2016 1:18 PM, "David Sovereen"
 wrote:

What would you guy do if you got a search warrant containing a
shared, NAT IP serving hundreds of customers?
We responded that the IP was shared and could not be used to
pinpoint a specific customer.
They responded that they want a list of all customers that it could
be, no matter how many.  This is the first time getting that kind of
response.  Normally, they just say okay and go away.
Is the request too broad?
Do I just comply and give them a list of all those customers?
Dave
==
MERCURY NETWORK CORPORATION
David Sovereen
989-837-3790 x 151 
2719 Ashman St Ste 1, Midland, MI  48640-4434
http://www.mercury.net 

Re: [AFMUG] Logistics

[Sam Morris]

r account days
before election?   Heaven help us when he is charge... I noticed no one
answered or challenged me about leaving him alone with your wife or
daughters The silence was defeaning... And the public works idea...
Who the hell is doing all that work right now? Open your eyes,  visit
construction sites around the southwest and even Las Vegas... Go to job
sites Facts not bullshit
On Nov 10, 2016 8:00 AM, "Sam Morris" <w...@csilogan.com> wrote:
If Clinton said it, that in and of itself is enough to call that
statement into question.

On 11/9/2016 12:09 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
Clinton said we can support
600,000 syrian refugees today. Thats 6 percent today of the undocumented
population we could migrate into citizens...today

Re: [AFMUG] Logistics

[Sam Morris]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism>).

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 11/10/2016 8:24 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

*From:* Rory Conaway

I’ll bite.

1)Climate change has scientists on both sides of the
argument, both with very good evidence behind them.
The next question is whether it’s man caused which it
partially is, but to what extend.

Pollution bad, irrespective of climate.

2)It’s clear that Hillary and Obama’s policies have
been a massive failure so it’s time to do something
different.

Obama launched more drones with bombs than anyone in
the history of the universe.  Hard to tell if this has
been good or bad for us.  Will Trump launch them like
Obama?  Time will tell.  Have we had more attacks on
our homeland with Obama in office? Nothing big and
coordinated like 9/11, that is for certain.  Absence of
evidence is not evidence of absence.

3)He didn’t win because of fear, he won because the
Globalists, the corrupt, and the anti-American attitude
in Washington divided this country and were selling out
and destroying our core values.  In addition, they were
bankrupting the country at the same time.   Liberals
attacked everyone who didn’t like their policies and
half the country said enough was enough.

I think he won because half the country could not stand
the thought of listening to her voice for 4 years.
Kinda like mars attacks.  I was going to get a
recording of “Indian Love Call” for protection.

4)Hillary is a lying criminal, Bill a rapist and sexual
predator, and you think Trump has character problems.

Trump does have character problems.  He has no filter,
he has no sense of decorum or diplomacy.  He is a
megalomaniac. So he doesn’t have good optics.  So
what... at least he is new and disruptive.  This could
prove to be fun.  As for Bill and Hillary, Nixon did
bad things too, lots of them did.

5)Obama is a whole different story.  That guy has lied
from the day he took office to his most recent lies
about not knowing about Hillary’s server.

We will never know if the Obama administration
prevented another 9/11 attack or not.  I am guessing he
was effective.  All upper echelon politicians lie. The
pigs gotta keep the sheep calm.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Thursday, November 10, 2016 8:21 AM
*To:* Animal Farm
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Logistics

trump calls climate change a hoax... Forget the physics
or science... Has no foreign policy plan... Sound bites
don't cut it... He won because of fear by biligaana,
period.  Country is very divided because he fueled
these fears...
Someone in class yesterday said we should respect
him Another guy responded, Really the way he and
others showed respect for Obama...
I can't respect him for his lack of character... I have
stated it clearly..
How ridiculous can he be when his staff cut his tweeter
account days before election?   Heaven help us when he
is charge... I noticed no one answered or challenged me
about leaving him alone with your wife or daughters
The silence was defeaning... And the public works
idea... Who the hell is doing all that work right
now?   Open your eyes,  visit construction sites around
the southwest and even Las Vegas... Go to job sites
Facts not bullshit

On Nov 10, 2016 8:00 AM, "Sam Morris"
<w...@csilogan.com> wrote:

If Clinton said it, that in and of itself is enough to
call that statement into question.

On 11/9/2016 12:09 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

Clinton said we can support
600,000 syrian refugees today. Thats 6 percent today of
the undocumented
population we could migrate into citizens...today










--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] channel noise

[Sam Morris]

Thanks for making the coffee go all over my monitor Steve. :)

On 11/10/2016 7:32 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

Filter /trash

On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 7:16 PM, Chuck McCown > wrote:

Ok, done.  But it will ramp up again in 4 years...

-Original Message- From: Dev
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 5:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] channel noise


Respectfully request to reduce the noise on this list to some
threshold where we get good SNR? There are good people and
information, but I have around 700 digest emails in the past week,
which is a lot to screen out off-topic noise without a good regex.




--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] heathcare

[Sam Morris]

"Before nobamacare, I couldn't afford health insurance. Now I still 
can't afford it, but I get fined for not being able to buy it."


On 11/10/2016 1:36 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

I just got mine for IHC in Utah and my yearly deductibles DOUBLED and my 
monthly rate went up $750 a month, a 53% increase.

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jay Weekley
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 12:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] heathcare

Yeah, I ran 90001 and rates were a lot better.  Not as good as my sample zip in 
Vegas for some reason.

Bill Prince wrote:

There are at least 4 providers that I know of in CA.


bp


On 11/10/2016 11:23 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:

Feats the buck out of me. Try it sometime. I could get a catastrophic
policy for about $250.  Maybe Trump will fix this.

CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

so what is so bad about opening this up across state lines?

 - Original Message -
 *From:* Jay Weekley 
 *To:* af@afmug.com 
 *Sent:* Thursday, November 10, 2016 1:18 PM
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Logistics

 Just for fun I ran the numbers from Las Vegas using Healthcare.gov
 and
 rates were a lot cheaper.  Probably due to the fact there are 3
 companies available.

 Josh Reynolds wrote:
 >
 > Same thing is happening up in Alaska.
 >
 >
 > On Nov 10, 2016 11:52 AM, "Jerry Head"
 
 > > wrote:
 >
 > Single provider only here in Alabama.
 > My policy is going to triple for 2017.
 > Bleh.
 >
 > On 11/10/2016 11:10 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
 >
 > That's the number that I hear quoted. If you have a
 reputable
 > different number, then we can talk about that.
 >
 > It's reported to be going up here by about 5%. It's
going up
 > more in some other states. None the less, the overall
 increase
 > in the last 5 or 6 years is still less than what was
 forecast.
 >
 > The numbers need context.
 >
 >
 > bp
 > 
 >
 > On 11/10/2016 9:02 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
 >
 > Are you *SURE* 22M people have insurance now that
didn't
 > before?
 >
 > If there are 22M more people paying for insurance,
 why is
 > the cost going up? Is it a scare resource now in
higher
 > demand?
 >
 >
 >

Re: [AFMUG] Logistics

[Sam Morris]

"Before nobamacare, I couldn't afford health insurance. Now I still 
can't afford it, but I get fined for not being able to buy it."



On 11/10/2016 1:23 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:

It was just an experiment to see how pricing was where there were more
companies participating.  We only have one as well.

Josh Reynolds wrote:


Not in Alaska, there is only 1.


On Nov 10, 2016 1:18 PM, "Jay Weekley" > wrote:

Just for fun I ran the numbers from Las Vegas using Healthcare.gov
and rates were a lot cheaper.  Probably due to the fact there are
3 companies available.

Josh Reynolds wrote:


Same thing is happening up in Alaska.


On Nov 10, 2016 11:52 AM, "Jerry Head"

>> wrote:

Single provider only here in Alabama.
My policy is going to triple for 2017.
Bleh.

On 11/10/2016 11:10 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

That's the number that I hear quoted. If you have a
reputable
different number, then we can talk about that.

It's reported to be going up here by about 5%. It's
going up
more in some other states. None the less, the overall
increase
in the last 5 or 6 years is still less than what was
forecast.

The numbers need context.


bp


On 11/10/2016 9:02 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

Are you *SURE* 22M people have insurance now that
didn't
before?

If there are 22M more people paying for insurance,
why is
the cost going up? Is it a scare resource now in
higher
demand?

Re: [AFMUG] OT: early reporting on Election Day

[Sam Morris]

When I read Dan's post I was reminded of this.


On 11/10/2016 12:41 PM, Dan Petermann wrote:

In a break with California with little time for either side to prepare,
California would be bankrupted almost immediately.

They import over 30% of their electricity. They would have to build new
power plants or pay for access.

They do not have the refinery capacity to produce their daily needs for
gasoline or diesel.

47% of their commodities are imported from other states.

Other states would be free to use a much greater percentage of the
Colorado river, this would devastate S. California cities as they get a
lot of their water from that river.

California needs the US more than we need them.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: early reporting on Election Day

[Sam Morris]

Doesn't offend me. But then, I fall into both of those 
stereotypes...can't dance, and well, you know.


(This is not directed at Jaime...)  Seriously though - people need to 
grow some effin skin. You're offended? W. Grow up. If you shoot at 
me, I'll probably take offense. Call me names or stereotype me? So what. 
Makes you look ignorant, not me.



On 11/9/2016 2:24 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

Looking at hot chic is one thing..  Touching and having affair is
another... Let me be clear... I have never advocated open border... I
know the law... But the broad paint brush he used to put us all in that
basket.. No different if I said you guys have no rhythm or small cock's
...

Re: [AFMUG] OT Supreme Court

[Sam Morris]

Nooo!

On 11/10/2016 11:48 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Now Ruth Bader Ginsburg has to live for at lease 4 more years...

Re: [AFMUG] Logistics

[Sam Morris]

If Clinton said it, that in and of itself is enough to call that 
statement into question.


On 11/9/2016 12:09 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

 Clinton said we can support
600,000 syrian refugees today. Thats 6 percent today of the undocumented
population we could migrate into citizens...today

Re: [AFMUG] Logistics

[Sam Morris]

I'd like to see Ben in the Surgeon General position, or put in charge of 
dismantling and replacing nobamacare.


But the most-important position (to me anyhow) would be to ensure Trey 
Gowdy is made Attorney General.


Sam

On 11/9/2016 11:27 AM, Jon Langeler wrote:

Agreed. my wife is hoping he brings Ben Carson onto the team.

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


On Nov 9, 2016, at 11:40 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm
> wrote:


the man ran against the dnc, the gop, and the media and won. doing
things previously thought impossible by those stuck in a mindset of
complacency is now his stock and trade

On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 9:33 AM, > wrote:

A wall is impractical.  Ladder, shovel, spool of det cord.  The
wall stops nothing.  People detectors are much more practical.
Give the list members a billion dollars and we will have a string
of motion sensors and cameras that will get ‘er done.
Vetting for religion or vetting for a particular flavor of radical
is so far impossible.  We will need some really functional MRI
technology and perhaps some synapse decoding before that will
become possible.
And if someone lies about being a Muslim, how you gonna freeze
them out.  No I look Arab but I am a Christian...  Can’t vet that.
But we have seen teen age boys get radicalized over the internet
in just a few days, so there’s that
*From:* Paul McCall
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 9, 2016 8:08 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: early reporting on Election Day

Jaime,



I know this is a sensitive issues culturally, and I know you are
sincere in your concerns. However, a lot of what was made out of
his statements was highly exaggerated into PC / political talking
points.  Instead of listening for actual plans to develop the
media way overdid it, and took great liberties to distort for a
story line to support their ratings and liberal agenda.



In now particular order…



There are NO automatic granted “rights” for people to be able to
come into this county. None in the constitution, none in current
policy or law.  There is a policy to apply for legal immigration.



#1 on any county’s list is “sovereign integrity”.  Meaning, the US
has a right to real borders, and has a right to not admit those
who might not be a good fit. Yep, that is the case and the US has
a duty (not just a right) to protect itself now and in the
future.  The US has given up on that for way too long and is a
very dangerous position because of the relatively small % of “bad
apples” that have let in completely unchecked.  The is almost no
vetting system currently, no structure on protecting who comes
into the country.



That being said…

The “freeze” on Muslims immigrating into our country, until we
know who these people are exactly (and no such vetting system
exists), is simply a wise move.  He never said permanently. I have
Muslim friends and those friends were essentially, vetted by
myself.  Not in a formal action but in getting to know them.  They
are the first to acknowledge the cold hard facts, that percentage
wise, the number of extremists in that religion is a very large
number.  They also support the “freeze” because they don’t want to
be blown up either randomly at a public place by people that place
NO value on your life or theirs.  Trump hasn’t spoke of permanent
internment camps for Muslims; he said simply, we won’t let them in
“until we figure out how to deal with some form of system to vet
them”.  It’s no more complicated than that.  Yet, that’s not what
fear and the media would like you to believe.  To call using
common sense to protect your sovereignty like being a NAZI is far
reaching,



Not being racist, but being wise, I can glady share in detail
(offlist) with you my personal experience In Israel 16 years ago,
and the pure evil I experienced from Muslims who were in their own
eyes, “just normal”.  If there is not enough evidence now to
justify wise actions to protect ourselves domestically from evil
factions from permeating the US sovereign integrity, then we are
really, really missing something.  It IS a cultural thing, and it
is scary. 



Since we can’t vet it who is who, a freeze until such time as a
system is developed to properly can do that, is reasonable.  Is
Trump the most eloquent speaker and did he articulate it in a way
that the aggressive media cannot tear apart? Absolutely not. 



On the “wall”, it is a small part, a start if you will, to being
to protect the nation’s sovereignty from the south from ANY
factions, not just 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: early reporting on Election Day

[Sam Morris]

You do know the only party that ever created camps and interred 
Americans was the Democrats, right? And that Carter postponed Muslim 
immigration


How soon people forget. :)


On 11/9/2016 8:15 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

So calling a culture rapists is not racist.. Calling a culture terrorist
is not racist.. Build a wall, internment camps to house Muslims is not
racist?  That's how NAZI party got started.. But of course since we
don't teach history anymore without editing to make us angelic and
perfect how would the uneducated male who helped him win know... Not
that they give a shit..

Talking about jobs leaving US when you make suits and clothing in
sweatshops out of Asia, welching on deals and contacts, cheating on wife
and children, is not an issue.   What a crock of shit... I weep for our
country...


On Nov 9, 2016 7:06 AM, "Mike Hammett" > wrote:

Those that came to the US legally are against illegal immigration.
Those that did not come here legally or have a difficult time
discerning legal from illegal immigration ignorantly label the
former group as racist.

US citizenship is a proud moment in an applicants life. It is a long
and difficult process. Those that work for it hate those going for
the shortcut.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Lewis Bergman" >
*To: *af@afmug.com 
*Sent: *Wednesday, November 9, 2016 8:03:03 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: early reporting on Election Day

I guess I don't get the whole racist thing because I am white I
guess. Maybe I want paying attention. I get the whole Islamophobia
deal. Mauve I am just insensitive to what is interpreted as"code
language" or whatever.

I thought I saw that 30% of Latino voters voted for him. What do our
Latino friends think about this?


On Wed, Nov 9, 2016, 7:23 AM Jaime Solorza
> wrote:

And Putin is happy.  Wow


On Nov 9, 2016 6:21 AM, "Jaime Solorza"
>
wrote:

The fears he played to, like someone we know back in the
1930s and let's Make America White Again theme brought out
vote for him.   Many of these rural voters want the country
to go 50 years... That's the saddest part.. Time will be the
judge... I think the world skipped a beat.Right Wing
radioheads and KKK guys probably came all over themselves...
And make your own tamales.. They will be bland with no flavor.

On Nov 9, 2016 5:11 AM, "Mike Hammett" > wrote:

Huh?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 






*From: *"Jaime Solorza" >
*To: *"Animal Farm" >
*Sent: *Tuesday, November 8, 2016 11:26:15 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: early reporting on Election Day

Proves one thing... We are NOT united states


On Nov 8, 2016 10:23 PM, "Lewis Bergman"
> wrote:

I guess this proves sometimes 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: early reporting on Election Day

[Sam Morris]

This is the same media who has been saying all along that Trump was not 
going to win.


We know how that turned out.

On 11/9/2016 2:32 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

The media by the way is actually saying the words: economies all over
the world have collapsed as a result of the outcome of this election,
  nothing suspect about that kind of reporting

Re: [AFMUG] OT: early reporting on Election Day

[Sam Morris]

There is no rape case against Trump. And show me a man who says he's 
never checked out a hot woman, and I'll show you a liar.


On 11/8/2016 11:59 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

Nothing anyone says about Trump will change my mind about him or Bill
Clinton Men who cheat are worthless... Men who gawk at daughters are
a piece of shit... So what happens now, with lawsuits against him?  And
rape hearing in December?   I tired of this whole thing... Oh yes BTW
Fuck Trump


On Nov 8, 2016 10:29 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm"
> wrote:

either result would have proven that

I will say this though, Ill do my best if he wins to stay in the
WISP industry for 4 more years just to come back and see youre VOTE
TRUMP tagline Jaime. I think once the dust settles and the media
bias subsides, youll see the candidate in a different light, and
over the next 4 years the crow will become a gourmet meal.

On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 11:26 PM, Jaime Solorza
> wrote:

Proves one thing... We are NOT united states


On Nov 8, 2016 10:23 PM, "Lewis Bergman"
> wrote:

I guess this proves sometimes people prefer the devil you
don't know over the devil you do.


On Tue, Nov 8, 2016, 11:20 PM Mathew Howard
> wrote:

Just watching the fear on those people's faces is priceless


On Nov 8, 2016 11:12 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm"
> wrote:

oh, this is so funny to watch, the media folks are
trying to backpedal and walkback all the nonsense
theyve pulled this year, but theyre leaving the door
open to not go too far if hillary still flips its so
they can do another 180. This is probably the best
thing to watch of the night as the reality sets in
that they may have really fu**ed up

On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 11:07 PM, Lewis Bergman
> wrote:

The whole "populist" candidate thing...Bernie on
the left, Trump on the right. Is populist = =
bad? Maybe not.


On Tue, Nov 8, 2016, 11:01 PM Josh Reynolds
> wrote:

Somebody mentioned on the news that "This
wasn't... Trump wasn't
running on a platform of unifying our
country.. he wasn't a unity
candidate. This is going to have very, very
deep consequences across
the board for our country."



On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 10:52 PM, That One
Guy /sarcasm
> wrote:
 > they skewed their models hoping the hive
mind of the public would vote for
 > their candidate. they overvalued their
influence and undervalued the
 > internets reach.
 > The GOP is dead, thats good, all the
never trumpers days are numbers, their
 > constituents have spoken. America is a
better place without it.
 >
 > Remember, trump isnt a republican, hes
more an independent than anything hes
 > so across the board on the major issues.
He could have run an independent
 > race but would have just split the right.
Even if she pulls a last minute
 > hail mary and wins it, this is a win for
the long term of our governance.
 > Bernie broke the democrats, they just
dont know it, 2020 is going to be a
 > hell of a race
 >
 > On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 10:46 PM, Josh
Reynolds > wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] Thank you very much for the Calendar!!

[Sam Morris]

Hi Jeremy, you're welcome. Glad you and your boys like them! (The little 
town near where I live is on the May page. Still trying to figure out 
exactly where they took the picture.)


Sam

On 11/8/2016 9:09 AM, Jeremy wrote:

Thanks a ton Sam!  These are great.  My boys love them (and I love mine
too!).

On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 8:05 AM, Sam Morris <w...@csilogan.com
<mailto:w...@csilogan.com>> wrote:

You're welcome Robert. Glad you like them! :)

Sam


On 11/7/2016 8:13 PM, Robert wrote:

    Sam Morris you ROCK!!!   Thanks for the calendars...

Re: [AFMUG] Thank you very much for the Calendar!!

[Sam Morris]

You're welcome Robert. Glad you like them! :)

Sam

On 11/7/2016 8:13 PM, Robert wrote:

Sam Morris you ROCK!!!   Thanks for the calendars...

Re: [AFMUG] Well this caught me by surprise.

[Sam Morris]

If any of you guys would like a U.P. calendar, drop me a note offline 
with your address and I'll see about getting you one. The best address 
is probably sam -at- up.com


Sam

On 11/3/2016 4:37 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I like their pickup trucks that can go on the rails though.  Pretty
funny when you stop for the crossing gates and a pickup truck rolls by.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *That One Guy /sarcasm
*Sent:* Thursday, November 3, 2016 4:26 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Well this caught me by surprise.

Railroad regulations would end up prohibiting the majority of our
installs. Cant climb any tower structure that doesnt have an
installation report accompanying the preinstallation engineering report
and if it hasnt passed inspection in the last year it cant be accessed,
there goes every residential tower.

Customers would walk away with an outstanding groundplane in their home
though

On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 4:09 PM, Brian Webster > wrote:

Most railroads have been installing towers and PTP links to support
their requirement for the positive train control technology. This
from what little I have looked in to also requires them to have more
sensors and such along the rail lines. With these towers and
backhaul networks in place, it would make for an easy addition to
add a WISP business. The railroad already bought and paid for
everything but the PTMP units and CPE on the rail tower network. We
should all be so lucky.

Thank You,
Brian Webster
Skype: Radiowebst
www.wirelessmapping.com 
www.Broadband-Mapping.com 


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ]
On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2016 2:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Well this caught me by surprise.

microwave ptp is probably part of the trains legacy comm systems.   Most
RR's throw as little tech away as possible...   never know when that
4884 will come in handy...We just heard about a 2.3 UP link that ATT
is in a uproar about and so far UP has said pound sand...  FCC will
moderate this..

On 11/03/2016 11:11 AM, George Skorup wrote:
 > BNSF has a ton of their own fiber in their ROWs, yet they're still
 > doing microwave PTP. No idea why. Maybe it's for a different
system or backup.
 >
 > On 11/3/2016 12:51 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
 >>
 >> And yet they are proposing to build a new railroad through a
bunch of
 >> farmland.
 >>
 >> http://www.greatlakesbasin.net/
 >>
 >> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
 >> *Sent:* Thursday, November 3, 2016 12:37 PM
 >> *To:* af@afmug.com 
 >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Well this caught me by surprise.
 >>
 >> There are unused railroad ROW's around here that allegedly matter.
 >> The railroad might not control them anymoresome of them here
 >> ended up in the hands of muni's who used them to make hiking trails
 >> and what-not.
 >>
 >> -- Original Message --
 >>
 >> From: "Nate Burke"  >>
 >>
 >> To: af@afmug.com  >
 >>
 >> Sent: 11/3/2016 1:34:27 PM
 >>
 >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Well this caught me by surprise.
 >>
 >> I wonder if when they pull up tracks, they can still
maintain the
 >> fiber on the ROW?� Drove through Colorado/Nebraska a few weeks
 >> ago and followed the old CRI ROW for a while.� Every 10
or 20
 >> miles there's a little town like like 50 people in it.�
 >>
 >> On 11/3/2016 12:19 PM, Tyler Treat wrote:
 >>
 >> Yep. I mean I certainly get it, just didn't expect it. �
 >>
 >> ___
 >>
 >> Mangled by my iPhone.
 >>
 >> ___
 >>
 >> Tyler Treat
 >>
 >> Corn Belt Technologies, Inc.�
 >>
 >> tyler.tr...@cornbelttech.com 
 >> >
 >>
 >> ___
 >>
 >>
 >> On Nov 3, 2016, at 12:16 PM, Nate Burke

 >> >>
wrote:
 >>
 >> I haven't heard of them, but I guess it makes sense.�
 >> Don't they have fiber 

Re: [AFMUG] Well this caught me by surprise.

[Sam Morris]

We do go through many, many small towns. But no, we don't have as much 
fiber as most people think. There's a ton of fiber along our rights of 
way, but most of it belongs to the big carriers.


On 11/3/2016 12:16 PM, Nate Burke wrote:

I haven't heard of them, but I guess it makes sense.  Don't they have
fiber laid on most of their ROW next to the tracks.  And they go through
many many small towns.

On 11/3/2016 12:01 PM, Tyler Treat wrote:

Saw this on Facebook. Since when did UP WISP?

https://up.jobs/job/opening/Breeze%20Broadband%20Communications%20Year%20Round%20Intern/Omaha/NE/080686?jsl=26108143


___
Mangled by my iPhone.
___
Tyler Treat
Corn Belt Technologies, Inc.

tyler.tr...@cornbelttech.com 
___

Re: [AFMUG] OT. Release the Kraken. HUFFPOST HILL - Nazis To Pound Pavement, Skulls For Trump

[Sam Morris]

"if"...

I agree with you Trump has been inflammatory. He was my last choice to 
be the GOP nominee. I'd go so far as to say if any of the rest of the 
field (including Jeb, who I also didn't care for) would've gotten the 
nomination, Twitch would be behind by 30 points in the polls. If Romney 
was running she'd be behind by 40 points.


Twitch also has had her fair share of racists remarks. And lies you can 
hear straight from her own mouth. I annotated a video on my FB page and 
provided many references to her racist remarks. If you care to look, 
it's at


https://www.facebook.com/TransAmSam/posts/1197487210287190?pnref=story

I don't know why Trump didn't do a better job of countering her in the 
debates - especially when she went on that rant about "making the 
wealthy pay their fair share". What bullshit. The top 20% of income 
earners already pay 84% of all individual federal income taxes. I'd say 
they're paying their fair share, as well as huge share of the bottom 80%.


http://www.wsj.com/articles/top-20-of-earners-pay-84-of-income-tax-1428674384


On 11/3/2016 12:19 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

What if its actually not all some giant conspiracy by the man to hold us
down?

What if there are cases of political psyops, but their numbers are very
slim and these are actually the type of people that are attracted to
this candidate?

He's been very inflammatory with his remarks, and some suggest that many
of his statements have a racist and/or xenophobic slant.

Is it really out of the realm of possibility that these things are
simply as they appear?


On Nov 3, 2016 10:52 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm"
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

just like the black church they just burned in mississippi and
painted vote trump on, the left will send out a boatload of freshly
shaved heads in trump shirt to polling places

On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 9:26 AM, Sam Morris <w...@csilogan.com
<mailto:w...@csilogan.com>> wrote:

huffingtonpost.com <http://huffingtonpost.com> is to the web
what NBC and Brian Williams, CBS and Stephen Colbert, HBO and
Bill Maher, and the NY Times are to credible "journalism". They
are designed for, and make targets of, the low-information
voters who don't know how to fact-check or research for
themselves and instead, believe what they want to believe, or
are told to believe.


On 11/2/2016 9:54 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

Huffington post...not exactly bastions of impartiality. But
torii know
those Nazi routes are biff on both security and monitoring
your @$&*


On Wed, Nov 2, 2016, 9:39 PM Jaime Solorza
<losguyswirel...@gmail.com <mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com
<mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>>> wrote:


https://news.google.com/news/amp?caurl=http%3A%2F%2Fm.huffpost.com%2Fus%2Fentry%2Fus_581a5a45e4b01a82df64852a%2Famp#pt0-370971

<https://news.google.com/news/amp?caurl=http%3A%2F%2Fm.huffpost.com%2Fus%2Fentry%2Fus_581a5a45e4b01a82df64852a%2Famp#pt0-370971>





--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] OT. Release the Kraken. HUFFPOST HILL - Nazis To Pound Pavement, Skulls For Trump

[Sam Morris]

huffingtonpost.com is to the web what NBC and Brian Williams, CBS and 
Stephen Colbert, HBO and Bill Maher, and the NY Times are to credible 
"journalism". They are designed for, and make targets of, the 
low-information voters who don't know how to fact-check or research for 
themselves and instead, believe what they want to believe, or are told 
to believe.



On 11/2/2016 9:54 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

Huffington post...not exactly bastions of impartiality. But torii know
those Nazi routes are biff on both security and monitoring your @$&*


On Wed, Nov 2, 2016, 9:39 PM Jaime Solorza > wrote:


https://news.google.com/news/amp?caurl=http%3A%2F%2Fm.huffpost.com%2Fus%2Fentry%2Fus_581a5a45e4b01a82df64852a%2Famp#pt0-370971

Re: [AFMUG] BW to work from home

[Sam Morris]

On 11/2/2016 11:19 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Unfortunately, I’m seeing people sign up for Hughesnet because they are 
promising those
sorts of speeds on their new satellite.


The good thing (if HughesNet is actually able to deliver those speeds) 
is that it means the customer hits their monthly use allotment sooner in 
the month, and either pays through the nose for more or gets throttled - 
both of which should be wins for you. :)


Just a couple weeks ago I upgraded a customer from HughesNet. She was 
concerned because I was giving her 5/1, and she had 20/5 from HughesNet, 
or so she though. She was beside herself at how much "snappier" (her 
word) our 5/1 service was than HughesNet. It may just be a latency 
thing, and if she downloaded a 1GB ISO from us as opposed to HughesNet, 
HughesNet may indeed transfer the file faster. But her perception is 
that we are way faster than what she had before. And no monthly use limits.






My experience with remote session like VPN and Citrix, and video/voice
networking tools like Skype and Google Hangouts and softphones, is that
they care about the QUALITY of the connection more than the QUANTITY.
If you have packet loss, or latency spikes, you are going to get “kicked
out of” your VPN and Citrix sessions,  and people will complain about
video and audio quality when you try to jump on a conference call.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 2, 2016 9:48 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] BW to work from home

What?  20/5 (or less) is still very adequate for *lots* of users.

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:46 AM, Roger Timmerman > wrote:

Is this a re-run from 2005?  Are we really talking about 20M/5M or
less still being an option and being adequate?

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Adam Moffett > wrote:

That could be part of it.  I work from home with 3m/1m.  It's
not uncommon to have a kid watching cartoons on Netflix while
I'm working.

The thing is, most of what I'm doing across the network is
remote terminals and remote desktops.  And I'm clever enough
that when I need to transfer a large file to the office I'll use
WinSCP and put a speed limit on the transfer so I can keep doing
other things.  Some people might start the big file transfer and
then call IT because nothing else works now.

I'm aware that there are people using some Autodesk cloud
storage/versioning thing that integrates with AutoCADthey
were told to /try /to get 10meg upload /if they can/ and I
believe they might really use it.

On 11/2/2016 12:25 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:

I think a lot of it is just lazy IT guys not wanting to deal
with people causing problems by watching Netflix on six TVs
while they're trying to work, so they just tell them they
need five times the speed they actually do.

We've had customers that were told they needed something
like 3Mbps upload, but were able to do their jobs perfectly
fine on a plan with 1Mbps upload.

On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 11:03 PM, Jaime Solorza
> wrote:

Nope... Getting more common... My daughter needs good
upstream to upload medical scans she does for several
clinics and private doctors from house or retirement
places.   She had to upgrade plan from TWC to
accommodate her.

On Nov 1, 2016 9:52 PM, "Ken Hohhof" > wrote:

Twice in the past few weeks I’ve had prospective
customers say they needed a minimum of 20M/5M per
company IT dept to work from home, emphasis on the
5M upstream.

This is a lot more than I’ve heard in the past, and
seems high to me.  In many cases even in town on
cable Internet, they will need at least a plan with
at least 50M download to get that much upload.  My
experience in the past has been that even our 3M/1M
plan is actually sufficient for most people to work
from home (assuming they aren’t contending with the
rest of the family trying to watch Netflix and Youtube).

Is this some kind of a trend, people needing that
much upstream to work from home?  Or just a
coincidence I’ve had 2 requests like that in as many
weeks.

Re: [AFMUG] BW to work from home

[Sam Morris]

I have 5/1 at home and can do everything I need to do, including Netflix.

On 11/2/2016 9:48 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

What?  20/5 (or less) is still very adequate for *lots* of users.

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 10:46 AM, Roger Timmerman > wrote:

Is this a re-run from 2005?  Are we really talking about 20M/5M or
less still being an option and being adequate?

On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Adam Moffett > wrote:

That could be part of it.  I work from home with 3m/1m.  It's
not uncommon to have a kid watching cartoons on Netflix while
I'm working.

The thing is, most of what I'm doing across the network is
remote terminals and remote desktops.  And I'm clever enough
that when I need to transfer a large file to the office I'll use
WinSCP and put a speed limit on the transfer so I can keep doing
other things.  Some people might start the big file transfer and
then call IT because nothing else works now.

I'm aware that there are people using some Autodesk cloud
storage/versioning thing that integrates with AutoCADthey
were told to /try /to get 10meg upload /if they can/ and I
believe they might really use it.



On 11/2/2016 12:25 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:

I think a lot of it is just lazy IT guys not wanting to deal
with people causing problems by watching Netflix on six TVs
while they're trying to work, so they just tell them they need
five times the speed they actually do.

We've had customers that were told they needed something like
3Mbps upload, but were able to do their jobs perfectly fine on
a plan with 1Mbps upload.

On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 11:03 PM, Jaime Solorza
>
wrote:

Nope... Getting more common... My daughter needs good
upstream to upload medical scans she does for several
clinics and private doctors from house or retirement
places.   She had to upgrade plan from TWC to accommodate
her.


On Nov 1, 2016 9:52 PM, "Ken Hohhof" > wrote:

Twice in the past few weeks I’ve had prospective
customers say they needed a minimum of 20M/5M per
company IT dept to work from home, emphasis on the 5M
upstream.

This is a lot more than I’ve heard in the past, and
seems high to me.  In many cases even in town on cable
Internet, they will need at least a plan with at least
50M download to get that much upload.  My experience
in the past has been that even our 3M/1M plan is
actually sufficient for most people to work from home
(assuming they aren’t contending with the rest of the
family trying to watch Netflix and Youtube).

Is this some kind of a trend, people needing that much
upstream to work from home?  Or just a coincidence
I’ve had 2 requests like that in as many weeks.

Re: [AFMUG] Comments on truck wrap, please?

[Sam Morris]

You'll have to add lettering...


On 11/1/2016 2:40 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Any suggestions for color?  An outline or a symbol/picture?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 3:31 PM, Josh Reynolds > wrote:

Same here. It's informative, but doesn't get my attention at all.
Great read, terrible branding.


On Nov 1, 2016 2:29 PM, "can...@believewireless.net
" > wrote:

Can you add some color? It just doesn't draw my attention.

On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 3:21 PM, Chuck McCown > wrote:

Looks good.  Wondering if there are other bullet points that
may have more impact.
- Business Networking
- Private Data Networks
- Home Wireless Network Experts
- Commercial Data Connectivity
Etc etc.
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Tuesday, November 01, 2016 1:13 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Comments on truck wrap, please?
This is the proof I was sent.  Just wanted to clear it by
the cloud before getting it printed!
Inline image 1
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

[Sam Morris]

http://www.surge-suppression.org/surge-suppressor-history

First paragraph, fourth sentence.

On 10/31/2016 2:33 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

I searched for lightening and didn't find any.
In any event, always happy to hear of any punctuation, grammer, usage,
spelling etc issues.

-Original Message- From: Sam Morris
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:18 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

Chuck, are you interested in hearing about typos as well, or just the
general feel and look of the site? (I saw a couple, but when I came
across "lightening" I thought I should say something since that's
intrinsic to the purpose of the site...) :)

Sam


On 10/31/2016 2:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Got it, thanks.

I am hopeful the schematics and images all look good on phones and other
devices.
I am only using a normal desktop with a very large screen.  I have never
done a web page before where I worried about all the devices.

-Original Message- From: Larry Smith
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

Looks good, only comment is the first line of the third paragraph:
"the response was from the group was" probably should be
"the response from the group was"...

Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

[Sam Morris]

Chuck, are you interested in hearing about typos as well, or just the 
general feel and look of the site? (I saw a couple, but when I came 
across "lightening" I thought I should say something since that's 
intrinsic to the purpose of the site...) :)


Sam


On 10/31/2016 2:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Got it, thanks.

I am hopeful the schematics and images all look good on phones and other
devices.
I am only using a normal desktop with a very large screen.  I have never
done a web page before where I worried about all the devices.

-Original Message- From: Larry Smith
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2016 1:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tired of looking at it

Looks good, only comment is the first line of the third paragraph:
"the response was from the group was" probably should be
"the response from the group was"...

[AFMUG] New Network from Ground Up - How Would You Address It?

[Sam Morris]

If you were starting a new network from scratch, how would you do your 
IP addressing?


Option 1) ipv6 - Doesn't appear that everything on the Internet supports 
pure v6, which would require...


Option 2) ipv6 with NAT64 or dual stack (or whatever would be a patch to 
make Option 1 work)... or


Option 3) ipv4 with private IP addresses and a single public v4 address 
at the edges (and use CGN for the calea stuff - CGN which evidently 
comes with its own set of problems...)


Or is there a better option that I'm not thinking about?

Deciding among these seems like picking which presidential candidate to 
vote for - They all stink, and trying to decide which one stinks the 
least...


Thanks,
Sam

Re: [AFMUG] Trouble Identifying Throughput Issue

[Sam Morris]

You don't have any ToughSwitches in there anyplace do you?

On 10/26/2016 2:30 PM, Christopher Gray wrote:

While running from R1 to R4 (maxing at only 10 Mbps), I can also run
from R1 to R3 an additional 15+.

Also, while running from R1 to R4 (again, maxing at 10 Mbps), I can also
run from R3 to R4 an additional 60+.


Aggregation on the M5 link is defaulted to 32 frames / 50,000 bytes.
Could this be causing such issues on a good link?






On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 2:54 PM, Christopher Gray
> wrote:

R1 is the only router with 1 Gbps ports. Everything is auto except 1
connection that requires manual settings.

*R1* -- (Auto 1 G FD) ...Internet... (Manual 100 FD) -- *R2 *--
(Auto 100 FD)  -- *R3* -- (Auto 100 FD) ...M5... (Auto 100 FD) -- *R4*

MTU is set to 1500 on every port (and the UBNT link).

Flow control is off, and none of the interfaces show any pause
frames received.


This is a live link, but it is only running ~ 1 Mbps otherwise.



On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 2:12 PM, Steve > wrote:

Few questions come to mind.

Are all set to auto negotiate or are they fixed at 100Mbit?
What are the MTU's of each connection?
Flow control turned on?


- Original Message -
From: "Christopher Gray" >
To: "af" >
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 1:57:56 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Trouble Identifying Throughput Issue

I have a section of my network that is lacking something, and I
can't
figure out where the problem is. I'm looking for any thoughts /
suggestions.

4x MikroTik routers

Link speeds:
R1 -- (30 Mbps IP / Transport) -- R2 -- (100 Mbps Eth) -- R3 --
(75 Mbps
UBNT M5) -- R4

The limiting factor for traffic should be the Transport, and I
expect to be
able to get 30 Mbps across the system (one-way).

Testing from R1 to R3 runs 30 Mbps.

Testing from R2 to R4 runs 75 Mbps.

Testing from R1 to R4 only runs 10 Mbps (instead of 30).

Tests were one-way btest with 20 TCP streams.

Any ideas for something that would cause this?

[AFMUG] Cambium 650 vs AF5x/NxN

[Sam Morris]

Does Cambium have the ability (using presumably ptp650) to bind radios 
together ala the NxN to achieve > 1 Gbps throughput in the 5 GHz spectrum?

Re: [AFMUG] OT - Politics

[Sam Morris]

My mistake. I was referring to Trump's companies. Not the illegal 
Clinton Foundation. God I hope they get audited. :)  I agree with your 
statement 100% Rory.


(I know someone is going to say something about Trump not paying his 
employees or contractors. One has to wonder though how long thousands of 
people would continue to go to work were they not getting paid.)



On 10/17/2016 1:12 PM, Rory Conaway wrote:

You mean the 5.7% of the income they actually spent on charities or the 94% 
they spent on salaries, travel, and other expenses?

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sam Morris
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2016 10:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - Politics

Or the thousands pf people employed by his companies.

On 10/10/2016 2:50 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

The Clinton Foundation has actually done some good in the world; as
opposed to the other guy's. His "Foundation" has served no one other
than himself or his "companies".


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/10/2016 12:48 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

Yep and that was the start of the Clinton Foundation...

On 10/10/2016 12:41 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

Don't forget it was a republican congress that wrote and passed the
legislation.

I'm not taking him off the hook, just pointing out that it takes two
to tango.


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/10/2016 12:35 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

Once again, Chuck, you nailed it...   BC was just lucky to be sitting
on a mountain of money and it made him look like a god.. Then he
signed the dumbest piece of legislature to come along in 50 years
against advice on the last few days of his presidency..  Not inspiring
in any way...   But we are now wedged and your advice is correct.  We
will survive another 4 years and hope she doesn't pull a BC on her
last days in office.

On 10/10/2016 10:45 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Bill Clinton just happened to coincide with the tech boom and the
advent of the commercial internet.  That is what produced the
surplus, he just lucked out.  His decisions to deregulate mortgage
banking is what brought us all back down in 2008.
I have told former business partners (upon learning of their
infidelity)
if you will cheat on your spouse you sure as hell will cheat me.
In my mind the game is over.  4 years of watching something that
could have been so much better lies ahead.  Been through it
before, can endure it again.
Winston Churchill said Democracy is the WORST form of governments
except for all the others.
*From:* Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2016 11:37 AM
*To:* Animal Farm
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - Politics Now you sound like my Trump
loving buddystate facts.not shit you hear from Hannity,
OReilly, Limbaugh and bunch..
Bill Clinton (An unfaithful husbandI don't mince words)
balanced the budget and we had a surplusa Democrat..but he
didn't do it BFM...(By Fucking Magic for you hard of hearing)...it
took both sides to get those things goingKnock Obama all you
want, you do anyways, but he inherited a shit storm and even with
all the Republican resistance, got
us out of the recession.   Trump used the recession to make
money..(fact...like Potter in Capra's movie)...Trump keeps blaming
Obama for ISIS!!! really.lets revise history like our Texas
Board of Education does all the time.Wrong is wrong, no matter
who does itClinton, Trump, Kennedy and other presidents
cheated on their wives...I bought out my first business partner
for just that...cheating on his wife and children...Guess I am old
school, but if a man cheats on those close to him, where the hell
do I stand in that relationship?
Goes to character and morals.yes we joke on this list allot
including sexual onesbut I have never read anything on this
list about thinking its okay to grope women because you are rich
or a celebrity...or worse call one of you daughters voluptuous
...NBC suspended Billy Bush but only after extreme pressure from
social mediaChump says he uses it and in the end the media is
what will do him inListen carefully..THIS IS NO FUCKING
REALITY SHOW YOU MORON
TRUMP!!!   I know those who approve of him will stay loyal up to the
electionLike I said before and I say it again...It reminds of
Hitlers followersthey knew it was wrong but didn't give a
shitsorry muchachos, that Make America Great Again dream will
not ever be back again, keeping kicking the sleeping giant.too
many of us are educated now and we can voteas much as you want
to change voting laws to keep us out, it will not work..lets
see how it plays out on November 8th
Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390
On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Wireless Administrator
<wirel...@htn.net> wrote:

 MUCH HAS CHANGED ABOUT POLITICS OVER THE YEARS.

 

 

 *“My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for
you, ask

Re: [AFMUG] OT Politics

[Sam Morris]

Have you (or do you know anyone who has) paid a dime more in taxes than 
they were required to pay? To be honest, if I could use the tax laws and 
legally pay no income tax, I would.


I'm not defending Trump... He was the last of the GOP candidates I 
wanted to see get the nomination simply because any of the others would 
have a thirty point lead over Twitch right now. I'm more worried about 
what she will do to the Supreme Court than anything she can do to the 
country outright. If she wins (and I think she probably will at this 
point) she'll be a one-term incumbent.



On 10/10/2016 12:07 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

Sorry..but I don't see the blind trust for his business acumen...another
of his casinos closed this morning...lots of folks will be without
jobs,,,no slant here...I know he sold it to Icahn..but he started with
loans based on junk bonds and all.   he has stiffed several contractors
and many lawsuits still in the works.   He has hired illegal aliens from
many countries for his construction and hotel interests...those are
facts...he knocks trade deals yet he has products made
overseas...facthe admitted to tax thing and the help with us dummies
that pay taxes every year...he uses bankruptcy when he failsthe
doesn't matter who gets hurti could have declared bankruptcy in
2002-2004 but I stuck it out and paid my debts...lost my savings but I
paid them , never stiffed vendors, employees or distributors...so no I
am not impressed with him at allI think what that tape revealed is
bad, thinking he can grope women cause he is rich? Fuck Himbut worse
and something I find more sickening is what he has said about his
daughter to Howard Stern and others...How can any decent man say that
about his own daughter?   I would not do what DeNiro said about punching
him the faceI would kick his balls so they would never work
again...yes I said it.   he is a piece of shit..I think I am insulting
shit when I say it.

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 10:22 AM, Jaime Solorza
> wrote:

yep...guess thats why i was rowdy in my youth

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390 

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 10:11 AM, Lewis Bergman
> wrote:

Still Spanish, of course, don't tell the Basque that. They are
still seeking to beak away. At least the part in Spanish territory.

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 10:25 AM Jaime Solorza
>
wrote:

Yep... In a way... My European ancestors came from Basque
area actually...


On Oct 10, 2016 9:22 AM, "Chuck McCown" > wrote:

I dunno, I’ll bet you have Spanish blood in you
*From:* Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2016 9:08 AM
*To:* Animal Farm
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Politics

Decorum, decency, character Where did they go? I
agree, we are in bad place with the choices we have...
But spooky part is how we got here You Republican
guys had an army of candidates... All better choices
than Fuckwad Trump, even Prick Perry or Cruz, yuk
But no... And the loyalty no matter what he does reminds
me of Hitler and his followers... On other side..
Sanders was better choice but Hillary had more going for
her... Can't say I  happy about it, but she is smarter
than Trump. Johnson needs a class on current events.
I pray for our country... Lincoln ,Reagan and Kennedy
are spinning away... Like I said before.. New source of
clean energy
..and on side note... I wish the aliens that followed
Columbus's fleet had sunk them... Oh well.

On Oct 10, 2016 8:44 AM, "Chuck McCown"
 wrote:

“We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be
enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must
not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords
of memory will swell when again touched, as surely
they will be, by the better angels of our nature.”
 Abraham Lincoln, first inaugural address.  An
effort to stave off the Civil war.
Of the presidents I have been aware of during my
short life, in my opinion only the following would
have had the temperament to  have penned the quote:
Kennedy
Regan

Re: [AFMUG] OT - Politics

[Sam Morris]

Or the thousands pf people employed by his companies.

On 10/10/2016 2:50 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

The Clinton Foundation has actually done some good in the world; as
opposed to the other guy's. His "Foundation" has served no one other
than himself or his "companies".


bp


On 10/10/2016 12:48 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

Yep and that was the start of the Clinton Foundation...

On 10/10/2016 12:41 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

Don't forget it was a republican congress that wrote and passed the
legislation.

I'm not taking him off the hook, just pointing out that it takes two to
tango.


bp


On 10/10/2016 12:35 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

Once again, Chuck, you nailed it...   BC was just lucky to be sitting
on a mountain of money and it made him look like a god.. Then he
signed the dumbest piece of legislature to come along in 50 years
against advice on the last few days of his presidency..  Not inspiring
in any way...   But we are now wedged and your advice is correct.  We
will survive another 4 years and hope she doesn't pull a BC on her
last days in office.

On 10/10/2016 10:45 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Bill Clinton just happened to coincide with the tech boom and the
advent
of the commercial internet.  That is what produced the surplus, he
just
lucked out.  His decisions to deregulate mortgage banking is what
brought us all back down in 2008.
I have told former business partners (upon learning of their
infidelity)
if you will cheat on your spouse you sure as hell will cheat me.
In my mind the game is over.  4 years of watching something that could
have been so much better lies ahead.  Been through it before, can
endure
it again.
Winston Churchill said Democracy is the WORST form of governments
except for all the others.
*From:* Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2016 11:37 AM
*To:* Animal Farm
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - Politics
Now you sound like my Trump loving buddystate facts.not
shit you
hear from Hannity, OReilly, Limbaugh and bunch..
Bill Clinton (An unfaithful husbandI don't mince words)
balanced the
budget and we had a surplusa Democrat..but he didn't do it
BFM...(By
Fucking Magic for you hard of hearing)...it took both sides to get
those
things goingKnock Obama all you want, you do anyways, but he
inherited a shit storm and even with all the Republican resistance,
got
us out of the recession.   Trump used the recession to make
money..(fact...like Potter in Capra's movie)...Trump keeps blaming
Obama
for ISIS!!! really.lets revise history like our Texas Board of
Education does all the time.Wrong is wrong, no matter who does
itClinton, Trump, Kennedy and other presidents cheated on their
wives...I bought out my first business partner for just
that...cheating
on his wife and children...Guess I am old school, but if a man
cheats on
those close to him, where the hell do I stand in that relationship?
Goes to character and morals.yes we joke on this list allot
including sexual onesbut I have never read anything on this list
about thinking its okay to grope women because you are rich or a
celebrity...or worse call one of you daughters voluptuous ...NBC
suspended Billy Bush but only after extreme pressure from social
mediaChump says he uses it and in the end the media is what
will do
him inListen carefully..THIS IS NO FUCKING REALITY SHOW YOU MORON
TRUMP!!!   I know those who approve of him will stay loyal up to the
electionLike I said before and I say it again...It reminds of
Hitlers followersthey knew it was wrong but didn't give a
shitsorry muchachos, that Make America Great Again dream will not
ever be back again, keeping kicking the sleeping giant.too many of
us are educated now and we can voteas much as you want to change
voting laws to keep us out, it will not work..lets see how it
plays
out on November 8th
Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390
On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Wireless Administrator
 wrote:

MUCH HAS CHANGED ABOUT POLITICS OVER THE YEARS.





*“My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for
you, ask
what you can do for your country.”*

**



AND THOSE ARE THE WORDS OF A DOEMCRAT !





AND NOW WE HAVE A NATIONAL DEBT OF:



*$19,493,291,113,808*

**

It’s hard for me to believe that ANY of the other issues matter.
I’m not afraid of a president that might hurt someone’s
feelings on
the way to fixing the mess we’re in. 



Steve B.

Re: [AFMUG] OT does it really matter?

[Sam Morris]

As long as he thinks China has his back (whether they do or not 
withstanding...if in his mind he thinks they do) he'll be emboldened to 
exploit havoc at the limits his technology will allow.


Fortunately, much of the time they seem to be having trouble just 
getting a missile off the ground.



On 10/17/2016 8:56 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

As long as his missiles keep having difficulty and his yields are low,
he can’t do much.  Wiping out a portion of LA for example might be the
worst case scenario.  And then of course they will be turned into a
glowing smoking hole in the ground.  I cannot imagine them taking that
risk.
*From:* Paul Stewart
*Sent:* Monday, October 17, 2016 7:47 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT does it really matter?
North Korea scares the shit out of me … out of control dictator that is
not in the right mind and has a nuclear arsenal at his disposal…. scary
shit if you ask me…
oh and has a major hate on for anything US related…. I can see a major
pissing match coming (in some ways it’s already started)

On Oct 17, 2016, at 8:39 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
Russia is doing some saber rattling for sure.  It is concerning.
Putin seems to be trying to take advantage of the lame duck period
somehow, who knows what he is up to.  N. Korea also, saying they are
willing to launch a nuclear first strike.  You’d think there would be
more coverage of the Russian threats, but all people care about is the
election reality show.
Putin is pissed that Obama called him a regional power.  Trump is
pissed that Obama made fun of him at the press dinner.  Isn’t it nice
to have world leaders who use the powers of state to pursue their
personal grudges.
Meanwhile in Julian Assange news:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pamela-anderson-brings-wikileaks-julian-assange-a-vegan-lunch-and-conspiracy-theories-bloom/ar-AAj2FYZ?li=BBmkt5R
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com]*On Behalf Of*CBB - Jay Fuller
*Sent:*Monday, October 17, 2016 12:43 AM
*To:*af@afmug.com
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT does it really matter?
I will look up the speech
How do you feel about the implied "bracing for war" Russia seems to be
doing?
The right (I do live in Alabama) seems to believe they are bracing for
war if Trump does not get elected.
I have not heard what the left thinks since all they can talk about is
the Billy Bush trump tapes or women
In fact I don't believe the media is covering anythingNot even us
firing on Yemen (I did not read that article on the internet I assume
we bombed A terrorist camp or something)
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
- Reply message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" 
To: 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT does it really matter?
Date: Mon, Oct 17, 2016 12:29 AM
Also, it seems this explains the nuclear deal Kerry negotiated with
Iran, basically trying to do what wasn’t done with Iraq.  (Idiot Trump
doesn’t seem to realize Clinton isn’t still Sec. of State, but then he
lives in a fact free zone.)  After years of sanctions, you have to get
some payoff as a result of those sanctions, apparently the deal was
the best our negotiating team could get.  Not trying to argue yes or
no on that, just if you look back to the Iraq vote and Kerry’s speech,
you can understand why he took the approach he did with Iran.
He has certainly worked his butt off on the diplomacy side even at the
risk of failure. Very different approach from Clinton, I think, who
seemed to be more of a delegator.  Unfortunately his efforts on the
Israel/Palestine issue were a total failure, and Putin and Lavrov
totally played him for a fool on Syria.  Well, and Obama too, remember
he was going to do the big “reset” with Russia.  And Hillary was the
Russia hawk in the Obama administration.  Makes me totally shake my
head at Trump wanting to “get along” with Russia.  Why is no one
saying that sounds like weak Obama who tried to be Putin’s buddy and
was made to look like a fool.  And no wonder Putin wants Trump to win,
since Hillary is hawkish on Russia. What a bizzaro world we live in,
where the Republican candidate has a bromance with Putin, and it’s the
Democratic candidate who wants to be tough on Russia?
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com]*On Behalf Of*Ken Hohhof
*Sent:*Monday, October 17, 2016 12:10 AM
*To:*af@afmug.com
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT does it really matter?
Then listen to the whole speech.
*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com]*On Behalf Of*CBB - Jay Fuller
*Sent:*Monday, October 17, 2016 12:08 AM
*To:*af@afmug.com
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT does it really matter?
I remember very clearly the media covering how Saddam would not allow
inspectors in and how he was very uncooperative.
In my opinion it is saddam's fault. Had he cooperated maybe we would
not have gone to war
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
- Reply message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" 
To: 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT does it really matter?
Date: Mon, Oct 17, 2016 12:03 AM
I remember 

Re: [AFMUG] Procera costs

[Sam Morris]

Back in the day we used to lock the programmers in a room, slide pizza 
under the door, and code would come out.


On 10/6/2016 1:31 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Something satisfying about being in the “zone” when coding.
You have your long list of features and bugs.  Crossing them off all day
long.
The hours fly by and you have a nice sense of satisfaction of building
something.
Day turns to night and you make yourself stop when you can no longer
focus on the screen.
*From:* Simon Westlake
*Sent:* Thursday, October 6, 2016 12:17 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Procera costs
Not anymore, the sad truth is I spend about 18 hours a day coding right
now. Still got a lot to do!

On 10/6/2016 1:13 PM, Steve wrote:

Oh admit it.. you spend half your day on Reddit.

- Original Message -
From: "Simon Westlake"mailto:simon@sonar.software
To: "af"mailto:af@afmug.com
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 1:36:47 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Procera costs

I try to spend at least 30 minutes a day on mailing lists to maintain
some illusion of human contact. I found myself ranting at the bus stop
about Android vs iPhones the other day, so thought I'd better start
talking to some humans rather than my cat..

On 10/6/2016 12:01 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

LOL.  I'll consider a demo, but I'll pester their support staff about
config.
I'd rather you spend your time on Sonar.  What are you doing chatting
on this mailing list anyway?  Get back to work man!
-- Original Message --
From: "Simon Westlake" 
To:af@afmug.com  mailto:af@afmug.com
Sent: 10/6/2016 12:59:08 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Procera costs

You can do a lot with a Procera to deal with stuff like that, some
solutions are more complex than others, but you get a ton of tools.
They'll send you an eval unit for 30 days to try out, so it's pretty
easy to see if it works for you. Let me know if you want to give one
a shot and I can set it up for you.

On 10/6/2016 11:57 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Well, there's a method to DMCA complaints.  It's more about people
who's monthly usage exceeds 600GB.
-- Original Message --
From: "Simon Westlake" 
To:af@afmug.com  mailto:af@afmug.com
Sent: 10/6/2016 12:54:59 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Procera costs

To a degree, yeah. They have a lot of 'magic' in there, like
linking together initial non-HTTPS lookups to trackers, and then
tying them to subsequent HTTPS connections. The biggest problem
with torrenters is that some portion of them are smart enough to
use a VPN, which leaves you with little recourse. But you're
probably not getting any DMCA complaints about them anyway..

On 10/6/2016 11:52 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

That's good to know.
Can it reliably tag and limit torrent traffic?
I've been looking at methods to do that in Mikrotik and a lot of
the mangle rule examples I see online don't actually work
(anymore?) and the ones that do work seem too broad for comfort.
I don't know if it's a $17,000 problem, but it's a problem I keep
getting asked about.
-- Original Message --
From: "Simon Westlake" 
To:af@afmug.com  mailto:af@afmug.com
Sent: 10/6/2016 12:48:55 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Procera costs

Yes, but most of the time it isn't worth it. You end up paying
list on most of the licensing, and they won't support the
hardware if it fails. They EOL the hardware every 5 years or so
as well (it's still supported for a while afterwards, but that's
the typical cycle,) so you generally want to be buying a newer
chassis.

Sometimes it's worth buying a used one, especially if it's a
bigger chassis, but it generally doesn't make sense.

On 10/6/2016 11:44 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

I lost track of whether the license transferal issue was with
Barracuda or Procera or both.
Could I buy a pre-chewed Procera and then just buy the support
contract/license for it?


-- Original Message --
From: "Rory Conaway"mailto:r...@triadwireless.net
To:mailto:af@afmug.com  mailto:af@afmug.com
Sent: 10/6/2016 12:42:19 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Procera costs


You can't buy a unit that was original purchased by one
company, sell it to another company and then they get a new
license.  Basically, if I bought Gino's unit, I would have to
pay him and he would pay Barracuda.

Rory

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Paul Stewart
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2016 9:41 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Procera costs

Is that because you didn’t have a service contract with them?
Just curious … or is it that their license is non transferable
same as some other companies (ie. Cisco)


  On Oct 6, 2016, at 12:19 PM, Rory Conaway
mailto:r...@triadwireless.net  wrote:

  And they won't let you transfer it to another company either.

  Rory


  -Original Message-
  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve
  Sent: Thursday, 

[AFMUG] Not to start a war...

[Sam Morris]

Knowing what you know, if you were starting a WISP, based solely on 
performance and manageability, if you had to be 100% one or the other 
would you select Ubiquiti or Cambium 450x for your APs and CPE/SM 
hardware (leaving the backhaul out of the discussion)?


Thanks,
Sam

Re: [AFMUG] TowerCovrage augmented reality need help..

[Sam Morris]

I've noticed that if you are editing a multimap and filter down to just 
a few towers with the magnifying glass in the upper-right part of the 
page, if it displays say three towers and instead of ticking each one, 
one at a time, if you tick the box at the top to select them all, it 
will not only select the three you see but all the ones you don't see as 
well. Then when you go to display the map it will try to display them 
all if you have a lot of coverages this could make it undisplayable to 
the point where you make have to call them to get them to remove the 
Pins (the site pins) from your map. This will usually allow the map to 
display, at which time you can remove the extra coverages that got included.


Sam

On 9/14/2016 2:30 PM, Timothy Steele wrote:

We are having some issues with augmented reality in Tower Coverage.. is
there a support forum I am not finding?

its trying to load all our towers instead of just towers within 5 Miles
so the App will crash soon as we try and open the augmented reality part
of the app

anyone have any idea's? feel free to contact me off-list too

Thanks,

[AFMUG] TowerCoverage and Liquor

[Sam Morris]

Anyone with me on buying Jim a drink at WISPAPALOOZA if he will move 
Towercoverage off Windslows and onto Linux?

Re: [AFMUG] Mimosa B11 issue

[Sam Morris]

What happens if you make the station side the AP, and the AP side the 
station (Switch their roles)?


Sam

On 8/30/2016 12:21 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:

Hi Gang,

I've already contacted mimosa support and they seem to be stumped too,
so i thought I'd check with y'all to see if you've seen the same issue.

We have a B11 link that is 6 miles clear LOS (we currently have a
dragonwave horizon compact plus 18Ghz link in place that the B11 will be
replacing).  The PCN states we should have a -42.5 the B11 interface
states we should have a -40.9.  On the near side with is also the AP
side we have a -42 (as expected) however on the far side (station side)
we have a -53.2.  Both sides are using the Jirous 2' dishes.  We've
tried swapping radios on both sides, i've downgraded to 1.3.1 and back
to 1.4.1 and we've moved the dishes 5' vertically on both sides with no
change.  the station side is always about 10-12db worse.  We are not on
a sidelobe since the other radio is at expected signal level.

Mimosa has stated they are "looking into it" and they have another
customer with a similar problem.  I've provided them VPN access and they
have run some diagnostic scripts.  It's been almost 2 weeks since I
first contacted mimosa and they don't have any answer other than "we are
working on it".

I'm ready to switch vendors to another product. We have to get this link
live because it's going to start snowing here soon.  Anyone else have
this issue or have any other ideas of what to try??

-Sean

Re: [AFMUG] 3.6 GHz Licenses for Sale?

[Sam Morris]

Always knew I could count on you Josh. :)

On 8/5/2016 10:19 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Funny timing

Rick Harnish
16 mins · Bluffton, IN
I have located some willing 3.65 NN License holders willing to sell. If
you are looking to obtain one of these licenses, reach out to me
immediately. My phone is 972-922-1443.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 11:17 AM, Sam Morris <w...@csilogan.com
<mailto:w...@csilogan.com>> wrote:

Does anyone have a (or know anyone who has a) 3.6-3.7 GHz license
they aren't using and would like to sell (or donate)?

Thanks
Sam

[AFMUG] 3.6 GHz Licenses for Sale?

[Sam Morris]

Does anyone have a (or know anyone who has a) 3.6-3.7 GHz license they 
aren't using and would like to sell (or donate)?


Thanks
Sam

Re: [AFMUG] Over subscription Rate

[Sam Morris]

Very helpful Adam. Thank you!

Sam

On 7/21/2016 4:18 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

I don't believe in over subscription rates. :)

For planning purposes, I assume we'll get 2/3's of advertised throughput
from the AP and then plan on 8:1.

In real life you have to abandon the over subscription rate after the
planning phase and monitor what's actually happening on the AP's.
Averaging hundreds of users together you'll get actual usage that seems
in line with an 8:1 or 6:1 ratio. On an individual AP you tend to not
have enough capacity for more than 30-50 people, so you can easily get a
few statistical outliers in the mix that make actual consumption not
line up with the planned over subscription rate.

It goes both ways tooI've seen sites with actual over subscription
of 20:1 and everything's working ok, and other actual sites fall apart
when oversub was only 4:1.


-- Original Message --
From: "Sam Morris" <w...@csilogan.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 7/21/2016 7:58:18 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Over subscription Rate


At what level do you over subscribe your APs? 4:1? 8:1? 15:1? Or
something else?

Thanks
Sam

[AFMUG] Over subscription Rate

[Sam Morris]

At what level do you over subscribe your APs? 4:1? 8:1? 15:1? Or 
something else?


Thanks
Sam

Re: [AFMUG] AF24 doing odd thing.

[Sam Morris]

It's funny...I just had the exact same thing happen on a pair of AF_5x 
that had been up and running fine for over a year. They were passing 250 
Mbps one way and 75 Mbps the other when all of a sudden they exhibited 
the same throughput, chain, and modulation issues as you saw with your 
AF24s.


I changed the frequency from 5.2xx to 5.740 GHz and that fixed it (well, 
it is acting as a workaround for now at least). I still don't know for 
sure that there's not a bad radio on one end or the other. Airview is 
out of the question without going onsite since it would take down the 
link used to get to that tower where we need to run the Airview. And 
it's 400 miles away so driving to it is an all-day event.


Or perhaps it was just "pick on a Sam" day. :)
Sam

On 7/19/2016 11:26 AM, Sam Lambie wrote:

No obstructions of any kind. 900 meter link. Gonna replace the power
supplies in a couple of days (when they arrive) and reboot the radio
here tonight. Upgrade to 3.2 late tonight as well.

On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 9:15 AM, Sam Lambie > wrote:

Not a bad idea on replacing PSU's. I'll upgrade tonight too.


On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 7:44 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
> wrote:

mine used to this before replacing the power supplies and
getting them on the newest firmware at the time

On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 6:30 PM, Sam Lambie
> wrote:

came back up, but that didn't fix it. I'll tweak on it tomorrow.

On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 5:27 PM, Sam Lambie
> wrote:

Firmware 2.0  with 598 days uptime. Just rebooted the
sucker. Hopefully it comes back up...

On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 5:26 PM, Eric Kuhnke
>
wrote:

The AF24 GUI with the current firmware doesn't
report null/complete loss of signal if it's
receiving nothing on one chain? Maybe Chuck from
ubnt can confirm?


On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 4:24 PM, George Skorup
> wrote:

Look at your remote mod rate. 1X. That's what
the remote is transmitting towards the local
end. I believe when they're in SISO, the Chain 1
signal reading is meaningless.

On 7/18/2016 6:20 PM, Sam Lambie wrote:

I'll look tomorrow. It's beer 30 here.

On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 5:19 PM, Josh Reynolds
> wrote:

Anything in the path?


On Jul 18, 2016 6:11 PM, "Sam Lambie"
> wrote:

I am seeing what I think is
interference on a 24 ghz AirFiber. I
tried changing the channel from 24.1
to 24.2 but no go. Could the radio be
going bad or is there something else
that I am missing?
The receive levels will bounce from
-61 to -47 and then go away completely
on Chain1. With only 80+ mbps on the
capacity.
Any suggestions welcomed.

Inline image 1

--
--
*Sam Lambie*
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598  Office
www.Taosnet.com 




--
--
*Sam Lambie*
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598  Office
www.Taosnet.com 






--
--
*Sam Lambie*
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598  Office
www.Taosnet.com 




--
--
*Sam Lambie*
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598  Office
www.Taosnet.com 




--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see
 

Re: [AFMUG] 5.6.7 extremely slow login

[Sam Morris]

I'd read that happens on 5.6.7 if there are issues with getting to the 
DNS server.


Sam

On 7/19/2016 1:57 PM, TJ Trout wrote:

Has anyone noticed that after programming xw devices with 5.6.7 you
can't seem to log back in? It takes forever. Seen this on more than 5
devices now.

Out of the box you can login fine once you set them to router mode and
try to login locally it takes a really long time

Re: [AFMUG] LibreNMS

[Sam Morris]

Jason,

I've been using it for a few months now. I'm happy with it. It took a 
little bit to get everything lined up, but once I did it's been 
trouble-free. If you decide to try it, feel free to drop me a note if I 
can help you with anything.


Sam


On 12/13/2015 1:10 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:

Who's using this? Opinions?

Re: [AFMUG] Yagi condom

[Sam Morris]

It may help prevent catching a virus :)

On 12/13/2015 5:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

If I leave the packing sleeve on this Cambium dual pol Yagi, will it
keep the snow and ice off?  ;-)

Oh, and FWIW, it's sturdier than I expected from the literature, it
comes fully assembled, and the SM clip works really nice.  I still worry
about ice & snow.  I'm also debating whether to weatherproof the
pigtails, I assume not because they have those boots kind of like little
clear spark plug boots.

Re: [AFMUG] WAY OT: Concealed Carry handguns - which to buy and why

[Sam Morris]

I didn't remember that it was you that posted thatjust that someone 
had said that. (It is a common cry among gun control zealots however.)


I'm reminded of a meme I saw that went something like "Average response 
time for law enforcement - five minutes. Average response time for a 
.357 magnum - 2700 feet per second"


I probably didn't say it quite like the meme, but you get the general 
jist... :)



On 12/7/2015 12:28 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

the paying the government to protect us is tongue in cheek, see the
attached image of greatness being supreme leader of nation peace through
obedience, disarmament making for no death shoot, imperial scum see
dominance in masterful power and soon dominate simple worlds

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 12:19 PM, Sam Morris <w...@csilogan.com
<mailto:w...@csilogan.com>> wrote:

Couple of things here Patrick...and I mean these comments respectfully.

The SCOTUS disagrees with your interpretation of the Second
Amendment, as do roughly 120 million gun owners in America. The
opinions of liberal scholars means exactly squat.

Also, the first ten amendments (the Bill of Rights) can *not* be
altered without abolishing the entire US Constitution.

Getting back to the OP's question - I've carried everything from a
.45 Glock 19 Gen 4 to my Israeli-made .50 cal Desert Eagle. I'm a
big dude so I can get away with the larger guns and concealment. I
stopped carrying the DE only because I didn't want to shoot the bad
guy and kill three good guys standing behind him.

And I will say this to which whomever it was who said we pay the
government to protect us: At the same event where you and I met (in
St Louis) Patrick, I was walking back to my hotel (two blocks from
the event) after a long night of training and networking. It was
about 1:00 am. As I was walking back, two of St. Louis' finest
citizens (dirtbags) approached me, making it very clear that they
weren't selling girl scout cookies. When they were about 50 yards
away I took out my Glock and racked a round (I won't carry hot
because as someone else mentioned here it doesn't have a safety).
When these two scumbags heard that cartridge rack, they turned and
bolted. I saw nothing but assholes and elbows.

I didn't have to point my weapon at them or even show it to them,
much less fire it. However, had I not had it with me, I have every
reason to believe I'd likely not be here typing this to you.

Sam


On 12/7/2015 11:41 AM, Patrick Leary wrote:

Yawn. The general population never made that boast until the NRA
in the
1980s changed their tactics to spur slagging gun sales. They
moved the
conversation to patriotic themes, talk of freedom, and other pabulum
gobbled up by folks. Contrary to popular “conservative”
thinking, this
is not settled law. In fact, even Scalia has been clear it’s
quite open.
Part of the issue is the meaning of “arms” and “keep” and “bear,” as
well as the limits therein. But, even more important is how
modern gun
advocates neglect the entire first part of that amendment and
pretend it
does not exist at all, when rather, it is, in fact, the entire
modifying
context of the latter part of the sentence.

I quote;

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free
State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be
infringed."

The NRA has done yeoman’s work pretending that part of the amendment
does not exist. The “well regulated militia” is the subject, not
guns.
The rest of the sentence is the modifier. “People” in this case are
represented by each state’s militia.

There is a significant opinion among many scholars that individual
citizens have no right at all to a gun.

Secondly, no right is absolute. Government even grants itself the
authority to regulate our inalienable rights (capital
punishment, etc.).
Amendments can also be altered, like the idiot 18^th , in the
face of
changing realities. The reality of then was a muzzle-loaded,
single fire
musket.

And, even if anyone wants to play elementary games and claim
literalism,
good luck with that, as that same text says nothing about
ammunition,
keeping and bearing LOADED arms.

Patrick

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Jeff Broadwick -
Lists
*Sent:* Monday, December 7, 2015 12:10 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WAY OT: Concealed Carry handguns - which
to buy
and why

Since when 

Re: [AFMUG] WAY OT: Concealed Carry handguns - which to buy and why

[Sam Morris]

Couple of things here Patrick...and I mean these comments respectfully.

The SCOTUS disagrees with your interpretation of the Second Amendment, 
as do roughly 120 million gun owners in America. The opinions of liberal 
scholars means exactly squat.


Also, the first ten amendments (the Bill of Rights) can *not* be altered 
without abolishing the entire US Constitution.


Getting back to the OP's question - I've carried everything from a .45 
Glock 19 Gen 4 to my Israeli-made .50 cal Desert Eagle. I'm a big dude 
so I can get away with the larger guns and concealment. I stopped 
carrying the DE only because I didn't want to shoot the bad guy and kill 
three good guys standing behind him.


And I will say this to which whomever it was who said we pay the 
government to protect us: At the same event where you and I met (in St 
Louis) Patrick, I was walking back to my hotel (two blocks from the 
event) after a long night of training and networking. It was about 1:00 
am. As I was walking back, two of St. Louis' finest citizens (dirtbags) 
approached me, making it very clear that they weren't selling girl scout 
cookies. When they were about 50 yards away I took out my Glock and 
racked a round (I won't carry hot because as someone else mentioned here 
it doesn't have a safety). When these two scumbags heard that cartridge 
rack, they turned and bolted. I saw nothing but assholes and elbows.


I didn't have to point my weapon at them or even show it to them, much 
less fire it. However, had I not had it with me, I have every reason to 
believe I'd likely not be here typing this to you.


Sam


On 12/7/2015 11:41 AM, Patrick Leary wrote:

Yawn. The general population never made that boast until the NRA in the
1980s changed their tactics to spur slagging gun sales. They moved the
conversation to patriotic themes, talk of freedom, and other pabulum
gobbled up by folks. Contrary to popular “conservative” thinking, this
is not settled law. In fact, even Scalia has been clear it’s quite open.
Part of the issue is the meaning of “arms” and “keep” and “bear,” as
well as the limits therein. But, even more important is how modern gun
advocates neglect the entire first part of that amendment and pretend it
does not exist at all, when rather, it is, in fact, the entire modifying
context of the latter part of the sentence.

I quote;

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free
State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be
infringed."

The NRA has done yeoman’s work pretending that part of the amendment
does not exist. The “well regulated militia” is the subject, not guns.
The rest of the sentence is the modifier. “People” in this case are
represented by each state’s militia.

There is a significant opinion among many scholars that individual
citizens have no right at all to a gun.

Secondly, no right is absolute. Government even grants itself the
authority to regulate our inalienable rights (capital punishment, etc.).
Amendments can also be altered, like the idiot 18^th , in the face of
changing realities. The reality of then was a muzzle-loaded, single fire
musket.

And, even if anyone wants to play elementary games and claim literalism,
good luck with that, as that same text says nothing about ammunition,
keeping and bearing LOADED arms.

Patrick

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jeff Broadwick -
Lists
*Sent:* Monday, December 7, 2015 12:10 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WAY OT: Concealed Carry handguns - which to buy
and why

Since when is a discussion of our legal, Constitutional rights
"pathetic" Patrick?  We are talking about a tool, like any other, that
can be used to protect ourselves and others.  WISPs are often out in
remote places in the dead of night...or at inner city data centers.
  They are vulnerable.  I know that one person on this list would likely
not be here right now if he hadn't been able to show a gun to someone
that was about to bash him with a baseball bat outside a data center.

Jeff Broadwick

ConVergence Technologies, Inc.

312-205-2519 Office

574-220-7826 Cell

jbroadw...@converge-tech.com 


On Dec 7, 2015, at 11:58 AM, Patrick Leary > wrote:

I’ll just note this is a pathetic thread to have in any society that
considers itself civil. Hell, even in the “wild west” the local law
had people check their weapons into the sheriff when they came into
town. In fact, formerly, states like Texas lead the country in
banning open carry.

“All the more surprising, then, that Texas was the first state to
ban its citizens from carrying handguns, a restriction that remained
on the books for 125 years.”

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/politics/texas/article/First-to-ban-open-carry-Texas-could-be-one-of-5974401.php

And just read this scholarly article from 1999:

*Gun Control and the