Re: Digest for ANTINATO@topica.com, issue 1623 [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Rick, I missed this in B's original book. I take it this is not an update but the 1997 version. No. it's not the Polish Empire of the 16th-17th century that's envisaged, although that would undoubtedly appeal to him -see "Taras Bulba" - but the scheme proposed by the British and Sir Halford MacKinder to the Polish nationalists and Pilsudski in 1919. Poland would have got a huge area of Western Ukraine, with an Orthodox state to the east. Sound familar from B's book? Only trouble was the army of Pilsudski got defeated. Then the Catholic Church was brought into it through the "Intermarium" scheme. Then Great Russia would have been divided into three, according to Sir Halford's scheme. Also see "50 Year's of Intelligence Operations", recently come out ih Britain, where this schems under the "ABN Conference" is laid out. It was a course being proposed for the same World Domination movitations, and comes from Sir Halford MacKinder's scheme of the 1890's, for the same reasons, with its obsession with the domination of Eurasia. It is pure Geopolitics Theory and its application by the British. __ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.bacIlu Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
The Ustasa [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Nancy, David, I shouldn't waste time with this character, as it looks like an attempt to disrupt by coming onto the site and justifying all of this. The Ustasa did not continue to exist because they received help from the big Imperialist powers, they continued because they were the direct client of the US. and later the CIA when it was created in 1948. This is called "The Ratlines" and was a major cause of the Cold War, they and other Nazi collaborators and being deliberatley brought out and recruited for just such a purpose. Although Jugoslavia was accepted as neutral in 1948 and used as a Neutral Communist country, there was always the plan to revert to this second agenda, which had begun 1945-48. Within America, they continued to be supported under the "Congress of Captive Nations" programme, which is where they were put. There is no question that the various terrorist acts were part of a Black Programme which was a covert operation supported by the US. aurthorities. It was clear the tragedy which has overtaken the peoples of Jugoslavia would happen if the programme of destabilisation was implimented, with the return of the Ustasa, and this is what occurred. An utterly rehensible major episode, but one in which our two friends the Dulles brothers and Wall Street investment bankers/ corporate lawyers which dave refers to in his last newsletter ,were heavily involved __ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.bacIlu Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: SREBRENICA [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- It was clear in the spring of 1993 that it was regarded as crucial in Washington that places like Sebrenica, Zepa etc. were not recaptured. That is in Washington. We must ask why there was so much panic in Washington. Meanwhile in Europe it was clear that the leading EEC. countries plus the UN. wanted towns to "protect" as part of "peacekeeping". But this would not work out too well, there was nothing to protect the inhabitants from the Islamic fundamentalist paramilitaries controlling them, people would not be allowed to leave, there would be food shortages, being terrorised etc. But equalling they would be used for propaganda purposes, towns under siege, "protected" by the West through the UN. etc. A massive propaganda campaign was launched using General Mendellin, a French general, and Canadian troops, Britain applying maximum pressure by moving helicopters to Tulsa airport and demanding various ways of "helping" the inhabitants. Sebrenica was about to fall in the spring of 1993, when the French government intervened still further, with agonising news announcements. At this point the Russians - "if we here about Sebrenica any more the whole world will explode" - pressurised the Jugoslavs to negotiate with the UN. Swedish commander. Canadian troops would enter Sebrenica for 24 hours, to disarm the the islamic fundamentalists. They failed to leave, ( or do any disarming ). However, we now know that it was being used for paramilitary and guerrilla raids into the surrounding region with the most horrific attrocities by any standard. Amazingly the "protecting" UN. troops were unable to prevent further such raids in 1995. This does not cover the aspect of Madeleine Albright needing an "trocity" in late spring of 1995 to get her Euro-allies to go along with open attacks by them. --- mart-remote <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > > -Original Message- > From: Gregory Elich [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 7:36 AM > To: Jim Yarker > Subject: Srebrenica > > Hi Jim, > Ken Freeland asked me about Srebrenica (what > happened?) > Thought you might be interested in my response. > Greg > - Original Message - > From: "Gregory Elich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Ken Freeland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 7:31 AM > Subject: Srebrenica > > > > As you know, Srebrenica has been the subject of > one of the most > relentless propaganda campaigns. Unfortunately, it > is not so easy to > separate fact from propaganda in this case, as there > has been very > little independent research. I have quite a bit of > material, and have made a real ffort > to determine as best I can what happened, but even I > can't say > for ure exactly what happened. I do have some > general ideas, even if I > lack exact details in some aspects. > > First, to understand what happened in Srebrenica, > one must look at > the context. That is, in 1993, Bosnian Muslim > troops based in Srebrenica launched > raids on Serbian villages in the surrounding area. > Muslim troops, led by their commander, > Naser Oric, burned down many Serbian > villages, slaughtering the inhabitants. The > villagers were murdered in quite > horrific ways: beheaded, tortured and severely > mutilated. In the late spring of 1993, > counter-attacking Bosnian Serb forces took back the > burned > villages, and discovered several mass graves. > > As the graves were unearthed, it was obvious that > the Serbian civilians had been mutilated > before being killed. Bosnian Serb forces were > determined in 1993 to take Srebrenica > and put in end to these sort of war crimes. > > I have several articles detailing the condition of > the corpses from these massgraves, and I can > ensure you that what was done to those civilians was > horrible beyond imagining. > > In all, over 1,300 murdered Serbian civilians were > unearthed from these mass graves, victims we never > hear about. I also have interview articles with > Zoran > Stankovich, the head of the war crimes committee we > visited in Belgrade > (he was out of town the day we visited). I really > wanted to ask the > committee about this as well as other sites that > Zoran Stankovich had workedon in Bosnia. > > There is also a Washington Post article in which > Naser Oric > bragged to the reporter about slaughtering Serb > civilians, and played > him a video of beheaded and mutilated Serb > civilians. Entertainment, I > suppose. > > Anyway, as Serb forces closed in on Srebrenica, > there was panic in > Washington. Immediately, NATO threatened to bomb > Bosnian Serb > territory if the Serb forces continued their > offensive against Srebrenica. > > This threat stopped the Serb offensive. Some
Re: No War for Oil! [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Right on, Heather, Also some very interesting facts on this gent. The Caspian and Central Asia contain a majority of the world's oil and gas reserves, - 36% and 28%. The oil is beginning to run out and will rise 40% in consumption in the next 30 years. Whoever controls that is in one hell of a powerful position. But they also want to control Central Asia --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > Silverstein works (ed?) for Newsday and was > (is?)there with that creature who > started the Yugoslavia demonization campaign, Roy > Gutman. If UNOCAL is that > unimportant, how come he doesn't mention Karzai's > connection with it, that is > that he was thier consultant? > > Does it make a big difference whether a pipeline > pipes oil or gas?? There's > more natural gas in the former USSR than anywhere > on earth. If they are not > up for developing the pipeline these days, that has > more to do with the > decline in the world economy, which is a great deal > more serious than the > "crash of 2002," on the stock markets, and has a > WHOLE lot more to do with > global overcapacity, or "overproduction. " (That's a > very cynical word to use > when billions of people are starving, homeless, > landless and jobless.) > > So Ken Firestone is doing his homework, denouncing > "conspiracy theorists" and > intimating that the US went to Afganistan to help > the poor. > > My take is he's just like his pal Gutman, and > working for the disinformation- > meisters. > HC > > --- > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.bacIlu Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: Fears over natural resources shortfall [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Heather, it's known these calculations were done IN THE '70'S. >From the point of view of the US. elite and Corporations there would be insufficient natural resources to sustain US. demand and the profit needs of the Corporations. Hence the present activity. The is even a Resource Denial Theory - you must take control of the areas where strategic resources are and deny others the ability to enter. Oil, copper, lead, there's a long list of what will run out fairly quickly. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > "The team then calculated what would be needed > sustainably to meet human demand for these various > activities. They wrote: "Our accounts indicate that > human demand may well have exceeded the biosphere's > regenerative capacity since the Eighties." > -Daily Telegraph > June 25, 2002 :Fears over natural resources > shortfall > By Roger Highfield, Science Editor > > __ > > > Capitalism produces human wants, but it does not > answer human needs. To the > capitalists there is a "natural resources > shortfall." But it is merely > because of the wastrel mentality of the capitalists > that this is so. Public > transportation, renewable energy like solar, wind, > or wave energy, recyling > and ending the flagrant overproduction of goods > that are not at all > necessary for people will immediatetly rectiify this > false "scarcity" scare. > > Economists who repeat the capitalist mantras and > promulgate capitalist dogma > claim that the basis of the economic system is > scarcity. But what is scarcity > but a reliance on a ridiculous staus quo that > focuses on profits and > production of increasing numbers of useless > commodities. > > In the United States, which uses 40% of the world's > resources, and in the > other industrial capitalist countries, people have > been programmed to buy > billions of useless objects. They work to spend; > they do not work to live. > People's culture, their enjoyment of nature or > creativity or reading or a > myriad of free activities has been manipulated so > that even walking has been > commoditized. There are special shoes, clothing,, > magazines, treadmills. > Life has degenerated into acquisition of goods and > watching television which > tells you life is about the acquisition of goods. > Endless mindlessness. . . > > Meanwhile billions are unemployed or working as > sweated labor so that this > lonely, pointless and irrational system can > continue. People starve while > others spend money to diet. > > We could all be healthier and eat less meat, which > would save tons of grain. > The multinationals have bought up farmland to grow > roses and special coffee > beans and gourmet fruits, where people once grew > food for their villages. Get > rid of the multinationals amd the World Bank and the > IMF and the people could > grow food on the land. > > Marx spoke of the cash nexus, and this world now > spins upon it. The > emiseration of the people of the Third World and > Eastern Europe is now joined > by the growing poverty in the industrialized > imperialist nations. There are > plenty of natural resources, enough for all, and the > Malthusians who wrote > this piece have in their minds that this rapacious, > destructive sytem must > go on forever. > > They they fear it has its limits. And it does. > > The imperialists are in a race with time. And so are > the communists. The > awareness of the workers and peasants of the world > is rising as the > inevitablity of the failure of capitalism is dawning > upon us all. The US and > the imperialist nations are rapidly militarizing, > ready to face the righteous > anger of the people of the world who understand this > system. > > The regenerative powers of the earth are stressed > most of all by the use of > fossil fuels. Global warming is actually killing the > planet. The wars in the > Middle East, Colombia, Africa and NATO expansion > into Eastern Europe and > South Asia, as well as imperial threats in Venezuela > and other oil producing > nations are all about s fossil fuels, most > importantly oil and natural gas. > > But these fuels are not necessary to the planet. No > one needs an SUV. We > don't even need to own cars. We can rent them as > needed and create great > systems of public transportation. Heat and light and > power can in part be > created by renewable energy sources. The sun shines > for free. The waves roll > for free. The air blows free. > > As for all the clothes and toys and gadgets: we can > learn to live without > buying them to feed that insatiable appetite for > things That appetite has > been created, manipulated and propaganzied into an > obsession by the > capitalists. That appetite is a substitute for the > human drive to live good > and creative lives.
RE: Milosevic trial [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Yes, he is. His "relationship" with the US. goes back to 1989 and the start of the activities of Warren Zimmerman. His movement, "independent" schools and clinics and "parrallel" administration"" were all paid for by US. funds. As for his "stupidity", it's that of being a Quisling for a foreign power, and not for not wanting to be president of Jugoslavia. So a pro-US. government would be a "democratic" one, and one that does not resist foreign attack is "democratic"! --- "Knight, Jonathan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > Rugova, of course, by boycotting the elections of > the 1990's helped to keep Milosevic in power. He was > told that he could shorten the wars in BiH and > Croatia by so doing, but as he wanted the Kosovo > Albanians to appear persecuted - he did not want a > democratic Government in FRY, he refused to allow > his supporters to vote as all he is interested in an > independent Kosovo and power for himself. In this, > he was pretty stupid - the Albanians have the > highest and the Serbs the lowest birth-rates in > Europe; had he been patient and less selfish, he > could have been president of Yugoslavia. > JDK > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 03 May 2002 14:35 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Milosevic trial [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] > > > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > > I put the quesiton across to the list: who's the > 'scummier'of the two, > that is, Rugova or the KLA??? > > I say Rugova, as the KLA is generally forthright > about its fascistic > beliefs. > > > Barry Stoller wrote: > > > > AFP. 3 May 2002. Kosovo's moderate president > clashes with Milosevic in > > court. > > > > THE HAGUE -- Kosovo's president, Ibrahim Rugova, > clashed with his > > nemesis Slobodan Milosevic at the UN war crimes > tribunal Friday, > > accusing the former Yugoslav president of > massacres against ethnic > > Albanians in Kosovo. > > > > But in cross examination, Milosevic labelled > Rugova -- who led the > > non-violent movement for Kosovo's independence > from Serbia since 1989 -- > > of being a pawn of the "great powers" trying to > implement their own > > agenda. > > > > Milosevic told the Kosovo Albanian leader the > situation in Kosovo was a > > result of actions by the international community. > > > > Milosevic asked several times, quoting newspapers > and books, if Rugova > > believed the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) was a > terrorist organisation. > > > > > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > > > Barry Stoller > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ProletarianNews > > > > > > > > --- > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST > > --- > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9617B Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: West Corrals Balkans's Poorest Into NATO [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- "You create a desert and call it peace" Caledonian chief to Romans, 79 AD. --- Rick Rozoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > [Transnational threats. Isn't that precisely what > NATO > is in the business of promoting and perpetrating? > When > has any Balkans nation threatened another since the > Balkans Wars in the early 1900s? Peace in the > Balkans? > Perhaps the eternal wars waging in Kosovo, Southern > Serbia and Macedonia are being held up as examples > of > this Pax NATOiana? > The 'NATO hopefuls' are scurrying to pack their > umemployed cannon fodder off to Central and Southern > Asia, the Persian Gulf and the Horn of Africa in an > unappreciated effort to ingratiate the local elites > to > their new colonial masters. > The unspeakably impoverished and disenfranchised > peoples of Bulgaria, Albania, Macedonia and Romania > would never dream of these mad imperial designs > unless > goaded and deluded into them by Western-installed > traitors who properly belong in prisons or > psychiatric > wards.] > > > NATO hopefuls stress Balkans peace > Monday, 29-Apr-2002 6:50AMStory from AFP > Copyright > 2002 by Agence France-Presse (via ClariNet) > BUCHAREST, > April 29 (AFP) - Ex-communist states including many > hoping to be invited to join NATO later this year > underlined Monday their commitment to securing peace > in the region, notably in the war-scarred Balkans. > "We want to change the perception that peace is an > exception in southeastern Europe," said Romanian > foreign ministry official Mihnea Motoc at the > meeting > of representatives of 16 ex-communist states. "We > want > to convince the West that peace is possible in this > region," he added, calling for its countries "to be > rapidly achored [sic] into stable and democratic > Western organizations." [For example, the > preeminently > 'democratic' NATO.] > The meeting was called to discuss "transnational > threats" and to identify "specific policy tools and > mechanisms .. to raise the level of domestic, > regional > and Euro-Atlantic stability," said an official. Four > Balkan countries -- Romania, Bulgaria, Macedonia and > Albania -- are among nine candidates hoping to be > invited to join NATO at a landmark Alliance summit > in > Prague in November. > Albania and Macedonia, the latter still wracked by > conflict, are not tipped for entry. But Romania's > and > Bulgaria's NATO hopes have been boosted since > September 11 and the resultant geopolitical shifts, > notably in the United States' relations in the > region. > Motoc was due to have talks with his Bulgarian > counterpart Petko Draganov in the sidelines of the > Bucharest meeting, to discuss their NATO hopes, > officials said. > The meeting, co-organized by the Washington-based > Center for Strategic and International Studies > (CSIS), > gathered envoys from Bosnia-Hercegovina, Croatia, > Bulgaria, Hungary, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, > Macedonia, Poland, the Czech Republic, Republika > Srpska, Slovakia, Slovenia, Ukraine and Yugoslavia. > Representatives from NATO and European Union (EU) > countries also attended, including participants from > Austria, Italy, Britain, Greece, Spain, the United > States, Portugal and Turkey. > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > http://health.yahoo.com > > --- > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9617B Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: Masaryk remembered [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- He was also a British agent. --- Miroslav Antic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > Masaryk remembered > Czech hero Thomas Masaryk will be remembered in > Washington with a > statue soon to be erected on Embassy Row. > The location will be a small park in front of > the Cosmos Club on > Massachusetts Avenue, Czech Ambassador Martin Palous > said. > This will add "a new and quite substantive > dimension to the Czech > presence in Washington," Mr. Palous wrote in the > latest edition of the > Czech Embassy newsletter. > "For those who are aware of the weight and > depth of history, who > connect their own lives to all of human existence as > a whole, with all > of its triumphs and tragedies, spirit and culture, > this is truly welcome > news," he said. > He thanked the American Friends of the Czech > Republic for its > "tireless efforts" to find a location for the > statue. > In 1918, Masaryk, along with Eduard Bene, > founded Czechoslovakia. > Masaryk, who married American Charlotte Garrigue, > strove for equality > between Czechs and Slovaks. The country peacefully > separated into the > Czech Republic and the Slovak Republic in 1993. > "Masaryk's permanent presence in Washington > will remind us of the > everlasting importance of personal integrity in > politics and of basic > political virtues such as courage and readiness not > only to talk in > times of crisis but to act," Mr. Palous said. > "Masaryk will be here not only as a > representative of Czechs living > in the old country, he will stand as a > representative for many > generations of Czech Americans." > > http://www.washtimes.com/world/20020423-71360658.htm > > --- > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9617B Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: Aircraft nose or warhead ? [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Well, this raises the next question, what happened to the third aircraft and its passengers? Or was there not one at all? --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > POSSIBLE THEORIES: > Aircraft nose or warhead ? > http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero14/missile/missile_en.htm > > The Pentagon states that the round hole visible on > the third building was caused by the nose of a > Boeing 757. This hypothesis is however not > technically possible. > > The device entered the first floor of the building, > producing a huge fireball, before penetrating two > highly resistant buildings leaving an exit hole 2 > 1/2 yards wide. What kind of device is capable of > doing this? > > According to the official version, the hole was > produced by an airliner a Boeing 757-200. > > > Lee Evey, head of the Pentagon renovation project, > explained how this happened at a press conference on > September 15. « The rings are E, D, C, B and A. > Between B and C is a driveway that goes around the > Pentagon. It's called A-E Drive. The airplane > traveled in a path about like this, and the nose of > the aircraft broke through this innermost wall of C > ring into A-E Drive. [ ] The nose of the plane just > barely broke through the inside of the C ring, so it > was extending into A-E Drive a little bit. So that's > the extent of penetration of the aircraft. » > > > Contradictions > > The official version is complex and contradicts > itself, so read on carefully. > > To justify the absence of Boeing debris, the > authorities explained that the aircraft was > pulverized when it impacted with such a highly > reinforced building as the Pentagon. > To explain the disappearance of the aircraft's more > resistant components, like the engines or brakes, we > were told that the aircraft melted (with the > exception of one landing light and its black boxes). > To justify the absence of 100 tons of melted metal, > experts attempted to show that the fire exceeded > 2500 °C, leading to the evaporation of parts of the > aircraft (but not of the building itself or, > clearly, of the landing light or black boxes). > To justify the presence of the hole, officials now > state that it was caused by the nose of the > aircraft, which, despite the rigors of the crash, > continued careering through the three buildings. > > The aircraft thus disintegrated on contact with the > Pentagon, melted inside the building, evaporated at > 2500° C and still penetrated two other buildings via > a hole 2 1/2 yards in diameter. Questions need to be > asked of Pentagon experts here. The official version > has its own holes that need filling. > > > > The nose of an aircraft ? > > Let us imagine for a moment that we had not been > told that the aircraft had disintegrated, melted and > evaporated. The question then is: Is it possible for > the nose of an airliner to penetrate three buildings > and, as it leaves the third, produce a perfectly > circular hole, 2 1/2 yards wide ? > > > > The nose of an aircraft, the radome, contains its > electronic navigation equipment. To enable the > transmission of signals, the nose is not made of > metal but carbon. Its shape has been designed to be > aerodynamic but is not crash resistant. The inside > casing, as well as its contents, are extremely > fragile. The nose would crush on impact with an > obstacle, not penetrate it. > > OThe fragility of aircraft noses can be seen in > numerous photographs from much more violent crashes > than the Pentagon one. Take for example, the > Britannia Airways Boeing 757-204, in September 1999 > [more images], the Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-3T5 > in March 2000, the Philippine Airlines Airbus > A320-211 in March 1998 or the American Airlines > McDonnell Douglas MD-82 in June 1999. > > It is not actually possible to find the nose of an > aircraft after such an impact. So it is not an > aircraft nose that could have produced the hole > visible in the third ring of the building. > > > > Traversing three buildings > > Fire fighters state they saw what they believed to > be the nose of an aircraft. The Boeing did indeed > penetrate as far as the C ring, they explain. > Captain Defina told the NFPA Journal "The only way > you could tell that an aircraft was inside was that > we saw pieces of the nose gear." When asked about > the aircraft's fuel, Fire Chief Ed Plaugher, > replied: "We have what we believe is a puddle right > there that the -- what we believe is to be the nose > of the aircraft." > > Some kind of craft did indeed penetrate the three > buildings. The upper floors of the outer ring > collapsed over a block of about 20 yards, half an > hour after the attack. The two inner rings seemed to > have been damaged by the fire which subsequently > broke out. They did not cave in. The device, which > landed on the Pentagon, did not demolish it but > penet
Re: One hole, 2 1/2 yards in diameter [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- There have been reports that it was a remotely-piloted drone, which first fired a missile at the front wall. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > THE EVIDENCE: > One hole, 2 1/2 yards in diameter > http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero14/missile/trou_en.htm > Whatever hit the Pentagon on September 11, 2001 made > a hole several meters wide in the front wall between > the first and second floors. It emerged three blocks > later, leaving behind a perfectly round hole of > about 2 1/2 yards in diameter. > > > > The device or craft entered the wall of the Pentagon > just behind the heliport. Half an hour after the > attack, this front wall collapsed. The photograph > below was taken in the minutes following the attack, > when help first arrived. The wall at this stage has > not yet collapsed. In the accompanying image, the > point of impact has been enlarged. It spans from the > first floor of the building to the second floor, 7 > 1/2 to 8 1/2 yards high. It is as wide as the two > windows above (5 1/2 to 6 1/2 yards). It would > appear that the wall between the building's two > supporting pillars has been removed. > > > > > Site : www.defenselink.mil - High definition (1,1 > Mo) > > > > The exit hole > > The two photographs below show the hole through > which the device or craft exited the building. The > photograph's caption is clear on this point: "The > exit hole where American Airlines Flight 77 finally > stopped after penetrating the Pentagon". The second > photograph shows the same hole after debris was > removed. The words "Punch out" have been added. The > hole is quite circular and is about 2 1/2 yards in > diameter. > > Site : navy.mil - Enlargement > Site : defenselink.mil - Enlargement - High > definition (1,6 Mo) > > > > The position of the hole > > The two photographs to the left and their > enlargements on the right show the location of this > hole on the inside wall of the third ring. The > condition of the windows and the inscriptions on the > right can be compared to the photographs above. High > definition enlargements of these images may be > downloaded by clicking on the links. > > > > Site : geoffmetcalf.com > 1 : Enlargement - High definition (420 Ko) > 2 : Enlargement - High definition (460 Ko) > > > > Enlargement of photographs on the left. > Image 1 : Enlargement > Image 2 : Enlargement > > > > What kind of aircraft caused these damage ? Please > read the article that follows: : Possible theories: > Aircraft nose or warhead ? > > > > --- > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9617B Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: Guardian: The Soviet threat was a myth [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Yes, totally correct in general, but inaccurate on many details - the truth is far worse. Truman also knew he was lying when he talked of "evil", he wanted his own "sphere of influence". Many British documents are now being made public. I am extremely busy at the moment and will reply in detail later. --- Stasi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > > > > Comment > > The Soviet threat was a myth > Stalin had no intention of attacking the west. We > were to blame for the cold war > > Andrew Alexander > Friday April 19, 2002 > The Guardian > > On a long and reluctant journey to Damascus, as I > researched the diaries and memoirs of the key > figures involved, it dawned on me that my orthodox > view of the cold war as a struggle to the death > between Good (Britain and America) and Evil (the > Soviet Union) was seriously mistaken. In fact, as > history will almost certainly judge, it was one of > the most unnecessary conflicts of all time, and > certainly the most perilous. > > The cold war began within months of the end of the > second world war, when the Soviet Union was > diagnosed as inherently aggressive. It was > installing communist governments throughout central > and eastern Europe. The triumphant Red Army was > ready and able to conquer western Europe whenever it > was unleashed by Stalin, who was dedicated to the > global triumph of communism. But "we" - principally > the US and Britain - had learnt from painful > experience that it was futile to seek accommodation > with "expansionist" dictators. We had to stand up to > Stalin, in President Truman's phrase, "with an iron > fist". > > It was a Manichean doctrine, seductive in its > simplicity. But the supposed military threat was > wholly implausible. Had the Russians, devastated by > the war, invaded the west, they would have had a > desperate battle to reach the Channel coast. Britain > would have been supplied with an endless stream of > men and material from the US, making invasion > virtually hopeless. And even if the Soviets, > ignoring the A-bomb, had conquered Europe against > all odds, they would have been left facing an > implacable US: the ultimate unwinnable war. In > short, there was no Soviet military danger. Stalin > was not insane. > > Nor was he a devout ideologue dedicated to world > communism. He was committed, above all else, to > retaining power, and ruling Russia by mass terror. > Stalin had long been opposed to the idea that Russia > should pursue world revolution. He had broken with > Trotsky, and proclaimed the ideal of "socialism in > one country". Foreign communist parties were > encouraged to influence their own nations' actions. > But it was never Stalin's idea that they should > establish potentially rival communist governments. > Yugoslavia and China were to demonstrate the peril > of rival communist powers. > > The cold war began because of Russia's reluctance to > allow independence to Poland. Stalin was held to > have reneged on promises at Yalta. Roosevelt and > Churchill had demanded that Poland be allowed a > government that would be "free" and also "friendly > to Russia". It was a dishonest formula. As recently > as 1920, the two countries had been at war. No > freely elected Polish government would be friendly > to the USSR. Furthermore, as Stalin pointed out at > Yalta, Russia had been twice invaded through Poland > by Germany in 26 years, with devastating > consequences. The invasion of 1941 had led to the > deaths of 20 million Russians. Any postwar Russian > government - communist, tsarist or social democratic > - would have insisted on effective control at least > of Poland, if not of larger areas of eastern Europe, > as a buffer zone against future attacks. > > The cold war warrior Harry Truman came to office in > April 1945. The existing White House, including the > belligerent Admiral Leahy, convinced him that he > must make an aggressive start. In May, Churchill > told Anthony Eden, the foreign secretary, that the > Americans ought not to withdraw to the lines > previously agreed. There had, he said, to be a > "showdown" while the Allies were still strong > militarily. Otherwise there was "very little > prospect" of preventing a third world war. > > Churchill's iron curtain speech at Fulton, Missouri, > in March 1946 - the phrase originated with Dr > Goebbels, warning of the same red peril - reflects > the great warrior's view of the Soviet menace. Not > surprisingly, however, it was seen by the Russians > as a threat. Referring to the new "tyrannies", > Churchill said: "It is not our duty at this time > when difficulties are so numerous to interfere > forcibly in the internal affairs of countries." The > inevitable implication was that there would be a > time when difficulties were not so nu
Re: more on 09-11/short version [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Can someone please supply an English translation? --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > [I am sorry to bother you with this document in > french language but I > really think it is worth reading it as it brings > interesting elements to > > the question of who ordered really the 09-11 > terrorists attacks - more > is available from > http://www.reseauvoltaire.net/actu/ligue-arabe.htm > > I am sure that some one with some knowledge of > french (in canada perhaps > > ?) will find it usefull. > > This transcript of a press conf. by T. Meyssan > explains among other > things that the pentagone crash was probably the > result of a missile > attack commanded by top rank US officers] > > > > > > + > Subject: [RÈseau Voltaire] Qui a commandité les > attentats du 11 > septembre ? > Status: > > QUI A COMMANDITÉ LES ATTENTATS DU 11 SEPTEMBRE ? > > Le texte de la conférence prononcée par Thierry > Meyssan, le 8 avril > 2002, au > Centre Zayed, à Abu Dhabi (Émirats arabes unis), > sous les auspices de la > Ligue arabe, en présence du corps diplomatique et de > la presse > internationale vient d'être mis en ligne sur > http://www.reseauvoltaire.net/actu/ligue-arabe.htm > > --- > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9617B Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: Absolutely awful propaganda on Pacifica Radio [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Nancy, this would appear to be an official propaganda exercise, both in the publication of the book, and its extensive review in various parts of the US. I recently replied to a review in an east coast magazine. It is Goebbel's Big Lie again, since the essential claim is that the US. "didn't intervene enough", whereas in reality it was responsible for the fighting in the first place. I suggest any reply should be along these lines. --- Nancy Hey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > This past Thursday, 3/28, WPFW aired an absulutely > horrendous piece of > propaganda on Josephine Reid's show "On the Margin" > a literary show > that > airs every Thursday from 10-11 am. On 3/28, Ms. > Reid interviewed > Samantha > Powers, author of a book titled "A Problem From > Hell", a book about > responding to cases of genocide in the world. In > the interview, Ms. > Powers > shamelessly advocated American military > intervention in any area of the > > world where there are civil wars going on, and > charges of genocide > being > committed against various ethnic groups. She > defended American > military > intervention in Iraq, Bosnia, Somalia and Kosovo, > and said that the US > should intervene militarily in other areas of the > world as well, such > as > Rwanda. Her arguments had a very self-righteous > tone to them, implying > that > the United States has the moral authority to tell > other countries how > they > should resolve their internal conflicts, and that > the US supposedly has > a > "moral" duty to intervene in conflicted areas in > the name of > "humanitarian" > intervention. Even though Bill Clinton is one of > the most militaristic > > Presidents this country has ever had, and initiated > more US military > actions > than Nixon, Carter and Reagan combined, Ms. Powers > complained that > Clinton > had, of all things, not intervened militarily in > ENOUGH areas of the > world, > had not intervened soon ENOUGH or strong ENOUGH in > Bosnia, Somalia and > Kosovo. > > I found it very disturbing that Pacifica, a station > that purports to be > > progressive, and was founded by pacifists, would > see fit to air such a > pro-militarist and pro-imperialist piece. > > I believe we should express our displeasure to WPFW > for airing > this piece. > > I believe that it is very dangerous at this time of > increasing > militarism > and war fervor for the station to be promoting and > encouraging such > pro-interventionist sentiments. The ploy of > couching wars in terms of > "humanitarian intervention" is dangerous, because > it gives these wars > an air > of undeserved legitimacy. This was used by Clinton > by justifying the > war > against Serbia as a war to stop "ethnic cleansing", > and is also being > applied by the Bush Administration by claiming that > the war against the > > Taliban "liberated" Afgan women. > > Personally, I believe that the progressive view > should be that if there > are > real cases of genocide happening and people feel > compelled to do > something > to help in these situations there are charitable > non-governmental > organizations that activists can support as > individuals that will help > the > victims, but that progressives should never call > for the military force > of > the US government to be brought down on smaller, > weaker nations. > > I work with a DC Coalition to Stop the War Against > Iraq, and we're > hopefully going to write some sort of a letter > written in the name of > the Coalition to Pacifica. If we do, I'll post a > copy of it to this > list. I'll also try to get contact information for > Pacifica for anybody > who wants to complain to then > > Peacefully Yours, > Nancy A. Hey > > --- > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover http://greetings.yahoo.com/ --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9617B Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: Of Robert Mugabe and the cadre [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- I was wondering when we were going to get on to this. I can only reply with the Zimbabwean ambassador to the US.'s recent speech. An attempt has just been made by western governments to influence the election in that country, ensure the election result they want and instal an opposition in power. You can imagine the uproar if any foreign power attempted that in a "Western" country. There was the recent revelation in Britain of the Foreign Office report that predicted the vote 60% Mugabe, 40% opposition and most of violence had come from the opposition. The report had been suppressed. The speech is;- Zimbabwe Under Seige (Speech by Dr. Simbi Mubako, the Ambassador of Zimbabwe to the United States, given to the national conference of the Schiller Institute (US), on the February 16, 2002) Dr. Simbi Mubako Executive Intelligence Review (US), March 1, 2002 http://www.sacp.org.za/discussion/_disc1/05bf.htm These days Zimbabwe is always in the news, but rarely do you ever get news about anything positive. A wise person has said bad news is better than no news at all. However, as Ambassador for Zimbabwe these days, I would gladly swap anybody's "no news at all," if he will accept my "bad news." There has been a veritable media blitz on Zimbabwe by the Western powers in the last three years. Yet for the previous 19 years, the West showered endless praises on Zimbabwe and its President, as a beacon of stability and democracy in Africa. Zimbabwe won many international awards for its advanced agriculture and economic management. American universities awarded President Mugabe several doctorates, adding to his own six very good degrees in education, economics, law and international relations. Now, suddenly, the West condemns the country, and portrays Mugabe as a leader who has developed the horns of a demon, and a tail. He is called a tyrant, a thief, and a corrupt monster, with all the epithets that the West heaps upon Third World leaders. Why This Sudden Assault on Mugabe What are the reasons for this sudden turn of events? The reasons are not far to seek. They are mainly two. a) The first one was the intervention of Zimbabwe troops in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). In 1998, the DRC was invaded by Uganda and Rwanda, with the tacit support of the United States of America and Britain. The declared aim was to overthrow the young government of President Laurent Kabila. The DRC appealed to SADC for help; SADC agreed to send troops from Zimbabwe, Namibia and Angola. The invading forces were checkmated, and the plan to overthrow the government of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, was foiled. The invading forces are still occupying, and exploiting the diamond and other mineral resources of the DRC, on behalf of the West. Two and one half million people have died in the process, in the occupied territories, as a result of war, starvation, and diseases. There has been no outcry in the West about the occupation, exploitation, and atrocities committed by the occupying forces, and the deaths of so many millions of people. The West singles out Zimbabwe for vilification, because of their own failure to plant a puppet regime in [DRC capital of] Kinshasa. Zimbabwe's presence in the Democratic Republic of the Congo was a SADC decision, aimed at saving the people of the DRC from imminent danger and genocide; and this was part of the wider SADC goal, to assist the African people everywhere. Zimbabwe is proud of its role in the DRC, and we know that the Congolese people are happy and grateful for the assistance they receive from the government and people of Zimbabwe. Zimnbabwe will continue to stand ready to assist, and to defend and consolidate the independence and territorial integrity of the DRC, as long as it is necessary to do so. [applause] b) Land Reclamation. The second and even more important reason for the West's assault on Zimbabwe, is that the Zimbabwe government decided to take control of its land; of the land which remained the monopoly of a small racial monopoly from the days of British colonialism. Land was one of the principal objectives of the war of liberation, through which Zimbabwe gained independence from Britain in 1980. Yet, 19 years after independence, that land was still in the hands of British settlers. The colonial racial division of the land left the white farmers owning 65% of the best farmland of the country, while over 9 million blacks were crowded on small, infertile, sandy plots, or were made landless and jobless. Moreover, Tony Blair's Labour government decided to abrogate the pledge, which the previous government had made before independence [at the 1980 Lancaster House Conference], that they would fund a resettlement program, a land reform in Zimbabwe. Tony Blair's government unilaterally announced, that they had stopped funding the land reform and resettlement program in Zim
Re: Columnist Eric Margolis [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- I suggest it is time for these exchanges to stop. The problem with margolis is not how we may/ may not disagree with him, but his "official" contacts for whom he distributes disinformation. It's no coincidence he's based in Canada. --- Stephen Gowans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > But Nancy, Margolis is a vegan! And he would never > countenance the sending of chickens to Afghanistan. > > Still, you may be right. At the same time we prevail > upon antiwar.com to blacklist Margolis, maybe we can > get them to stop posting Pat Buchanan and Justin > Raimondo. Surely there are people on the Left (and > not Chomskyites, Trotskyites, social democrats, > anarchists, world socialists, libertarian > socialists, third-way Marxists, progressives and > Blairites) who are making the same points on > Afghanistan, Iraq, and so on. Better yet, maybe some > of them are vegans. How about Alexander Cockburn? Or > does he work for the CIA? > > Another idea: Being an unrepentant ovolacto > vegetarian (yes, I do drink milk: mea culpa), I > think my writing should be posted before any of > those other guys. After all, who needs ideas, when > you have the right political loyalties (and diet)? > > Steve > > - Original Message - > From: Nancy Hey > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 10:15 PM > Subject: Re: Columnist Eric Margolis > [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] > > > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > " > Other people are making the same points he is on > Afghanistan, Iraq and so forth; there's no need to > > provide this enemy of ours with more exposure and > authority than his contacts in the intelligence > community have already succeeded in doing. > Respectfully, > Rick > " > My sentiments exactly! How can we get Antiwar.com > to see this point? > > peacefully yours, > Nancy Hey > > mart-remote wrote: > > Well said Rick. Please, let's not give this > bastard any more exposure than he already gets, or > even the thinest veneer of credibilty. Margolis is a > CIA-KLA terrorist who happens to use a typewriter to > kill people. His words do not belong on this list. > One slight correction. He is with the Toronto Sun, > not the Toronto Star. > > mart > > == > > > Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:25:32 -0800 (PST) > From: Rick Rozoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: Cowboy Prez rides to rescue? - > Columnist Eric Margolis > [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] > > > Dear Friends, > For anyone not already acquainted > with > the fact, Eric Margolis is a Western > disinformation > agent who boasts, inter alia, of smuggling > rockets > into the Afghan mujahedin in the 1980s and > possessing > a host of intelligence contacts, including with > the > CIA. > A quick Google search with the words "Eric > Margolis > socialism" will demonstrate with whom we're > dealing. > There is nothing remotely enlightened or > progressive > about this individual, notwithstanding the fact > that > his columns, from the very establishment Toronto > Star > where he is the official foreign correspondent, > have > been crossposted and linked on several US > 'progressive' sites fairly regularly of late. > In fact, the only time he criticizes Western > militarism, aside from goading it into being > more > aggressive (e.g. "Stopping Europe's New Nazis" > and > "Serbia Needs Moral Cleansing"), is when one of > his > presumed co-religionists is under fire. > As such he operates on a personal, and hardly > political or principled, agenda. > Other people are making the same points he is on > > Afghanistan, Iraq and so forth; there's no need > to > provide this enemy of ours with more exposure > and > authority than his contacts in the intelligence > community have already succeeded in doing. > Respectfully, > Rick > > > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy > Awards® > --- > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST > > --- > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9617B Or send an ema
RE: Cold War Era Campaign Against Moldova [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- I agree, I'm finding myself in a run-in, ( not sought ), with the local socialist alliance, because i suggested that they should have included something for 24th march in their "Antiwar Teach-in". Apparantly only "third world peoples of colour" count for such support. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > > Rick, > > I see it like this: it's become fashionable to > oppose imperialism > perpetrated against 'third world people of colour'. > It's Kind of like > saying: I'm progressive cause I listen to latin > music, go to > multicultural fairs, donate money to charities, or > attend > anti-globalization demonstrations. (Pardom the pun > but) Things are > looked at in' black and white' terms. Imperialism > per se and its wider > implications for the world as a whole is either not > understood or > ignored. > > > > > > > Richard Roper wrote: > > Hey Rick, > > > > you know what the "PEN Club" is and why it's got > it's > > HQ. in London? I'm surprised they revived it. > > > > > > --- Rick Rozoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > > > --- > > > > > > [Note that a citizen of Moldova, a UN member, is > > > once > > > again referred to as a Bessarabian, the position > of > > > the pro-Western government of Romania which > > > 'derecognizes' Moldova the better to eventually > > > absorb > > > it. > > > Notice the tone of the following screed, one > which > > > recalls the worst excesses of the Cold War. > > > The Western anti-war movement, while willing to > > > address imperialist intrigues and attacks > anywhere > > > else in the world, is almost uniformly silent > about > > > the current campaigns of subversion, > intimidation > > > and > > > outright aggression against the peoples of > > > Yugoslavia, > > > Macedonia, Moldova, Greece, Slovakia, Belarus, > > > Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Ukraine and Ajaria. > > > A fatal blind spot if it's not soon remedied.] > > > > > > > > > > > > Morituri > > > March 23, 2002 > > > > > > Communist Terror in Republic of Moldavia > > > > > > A writer as beaten by Moldavian policemen in > > > Kishinev > > > > > > Besserabian writer Emilian Galaicu-Paun was > > > maltreated > > > on March 18th, in the presence of several > witnesses, > > > by a group of civilians subsequently identified > as > > > employees of the Domestic Affairs of the > Republic of > > > Moldavia, a communiqué of the PEN Club of the > > > Republic > > > of Moldavia reads. On March 18th, downtown > Kishinev, > > > Emilian Galaicu-Paun and his brother were > accosted > > > and > > > beaten. According to a PEN Club of the Republic > of > > > Moldavia communiqué, "without being summoned by > the > > > Police, the two were put to the ground, > hand-cuffed > > > and driven to the police station, where Emilian > > > Galaicu-Paun was communicated he was > investigated > > > only > > > as a witness". PEN Club of the Republic of > Moldavia, > > > a > > > branch of the World Organization of Writers, > > > headquartered in London, expresses its protest > > > against > > > "these practices of totalitarian type of the > police > > > forces in Kishinev". PEN Moldavian Club asked > the > > > Domestic Affairs Ministry to elucidate this case > of > > > "flagrant violation of human rights" and > declares it > > > would monitor the investigations and would > inform > > > the > > > international organisms habilitated in the > > > protection > > > of human rights. > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy > Awards® > > > http://movies.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > --- > > > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy > Awards® > > http://movies.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > > --- > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9617B Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: Cold War Era Campaign Against Moldova [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Hey Rick, you know what the "PEN Club" is and why it's got it's HQ. in London? I'm surprised they revived it. --- Rick Rozoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > [Note that a citizen of Moldova, a UN member, is > once > again referred to as a Bessarabian, the position of > the pro-Western government of Romania which > 'derecognizes' Moldova the better to eventually > absorb > it. > Notice the tone of the following screed, one which > recalls the worst excesses of the Cold War. > The Western anti-war movement, while willing to > address imperialist intrigues and attacks anywhere > else in the world, is almost uniformly silent about > the current campaigns of subversion, intimidation > and > outright aggression against the peoples of > Yugoslavia, > Macedonia, Moldova, Greece, Slovakia, Belarus, > Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Ukraine and Ajaria. > A fatal blind spot if it's not soon remedied.] > > > > Morituri > March 23, 2002 > > Communist Terror in Republic of Moldavia > > A writer as beaten by Moldavian policemen in > Kishinev > > Besserabian writer Emilian Galaicu-Paun was > maltreated > on March 18th, in the presence of several witnesses, > by a group of civilians subsequently identified as > employees of the Domestic Affairs of the Republic of > Moldavia, a communiqué of the PEN Club of the > Republic > of Moldavia reads. On March 18th, downtown Kishinev, > Emilian Galaicu-Paun and his brother were accosted > and > beaten. According to a PEN Club of the Republic of > Moldavia communiqué, "without being summoned by the > Police, the two were put to the ground, hand-cuffed > and driven to the police station, where Emilian > Galaicu-Paun was communicated he was investigated > only > as a witness". PEN Club of the Republic of Moldavia, > a > branch of the World Organization of Writers, > headquartered in London, expresses its protest > against > "these practices of totalitarian type of the police > forces in Kishinev". PEN Moldavian Club asked the > Domestic Affairs Ministry to elucidate this case of > "flagrant violation of human rights" and declares it > would monitor the investigations and would inform > the > international organisms habilitated in the > protection > of human rights. > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® > http://movies.yahoo.com/ > > --- > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9617B Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: pentagone crash -continued [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- I would be suspicious of the French story, but for this sequence of photos suddenly appearing the very next day, as a major news story which "proved" the crash, of which the CNN sequence is the same set of pictures, but doesn't actually show the plane crashing. Their "sudden discovery" is suspicious, as no one knew of their existence before. Also the way in which the plane came in clipping the daisies, we are told, thus explaining why only the first storey was destroyed, and the rest of the facade fell onto it. It seems strange there were no eye witnessess as well. The sequence from France is difficult to explain in that the size of the aircraft should have destroyed much more than the 1st storey of the building, at least the 1st and second, and the damage looks much more consistent with a truck bommb, which was what was originally reported. But then what happened to the plane and passengers? There is no satisfactory explanation of the crash in Pennsylvania. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > here is a link at cnn.com trying to convince that a > crash really > happened. > > Video and photos are available > > It seems some doubts exist but no conclusive facts > or testimonies firmly > confirm the plane crash hypothesis. > > According to maps, the plane must have passed over > an unhabited area and > a traffic bridge, possibly full of cars. > It is said the plane was almost razing the grass > when it hit the > building. This should have been seen or even heard. > Such planes have > extremely powerfull engines. > > Strange CNN document. > > http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/03/07/gen.pentagon.pictures/ > > --- > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9617B Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: pentagone crash -continued [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- I would be suspicious of the French story, but for this sequence of photos suddenly appearing the very next day, as a major news story which "proved" the crash, of which the CNN sequence is the same set of pictures, but doesn't actually show the plane crashing. Their "sudden discovery" is suspicious, as no one knew of their existence before. Also the way in which the plane came in clipping the daisies, we are told, thus explaining why only the first storey was destroyed, and the rest of the facade fell onto it. It seems strange there were no eye witnessess as well. The sequence from France is difficult to explain in that the size of the aircraft should have destroyed much more than the 1st storey of the building, at least the 1st and second, and the damage looks much more consistent with a truck bommb, which was what was originally reported. But then what happened to the plane and passengers? There is no satisfactory explanation of the crash in Pennsylvania. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > here is a link at cnn.com trying to convince that a > crash really > happened. > > Video and photos are available > > It seems some doubts exist but no conclusive facts > or testimonies firmly > confirm the plane crash hypothesis. > > According to maps, the plane must have passed over > an unhabited area and > a traffic bridge, possibly full of cars. > It is said the plane was almost razing the grass > when it hit the > building. This should have been seen or even heard. > Such planes have > extremely powerfull engines. > > Strange CNN document. > > http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/03/07/gen.pentagon.pictures/ > > --- > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9617B Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: pentagone crash -continued [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- I would be suspicious of the French story, but for this sequence of photos suddenly appearing the very next day, as a major news story which "proved" the crash, of which the CNN sequence is the same set of pictures, but doesn't actually show the plane crashing. Their "sudden discovery" is suspicious, as no one knew of their existence before. Also the way in which the plane came in clipping the daisies, we are told, thus explaining why only the first storey was destroyed, and the rest of the facade fell onto it. It seems strange there were no eye witnessess as well. The sequence from France is difficult to explain in that the size of the aircraft should have destroyed much more than the 1st storey of the building, at least the 1st and second, and the damage looks much more consistent with a truck bommb, which was what was originally reported. But then what happened to the plane and passengers? There is no satisfactory explanation of the crash in Pennsylvania. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > here is a link at cnn.com trying to convince that a > crash really > happened. > > Video and photos are available > > It seems some doubts exist but no conclusive facts > or testimonies firmly > confirm the plane crash hypothesis. > > According to maps, the plane must have passed over > an unhabited area and > a traffic bridge, possibly full of cars. > It is said the plane was almost razing the grass > when it hit the > building. This should have been seen or even heard. > Such planes have > extremely powerfull engines. > > Strange CNN document. > > http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/03/07/gen.pentagon.pictures/ > > --- > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9617B Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: pentagone crash -continued [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- I would be suspicious of the French story, but for this sequence of photos suddenly appearing the very next day, as a major news story which "proved" the crash, of which the CNN sequence is the same set of pictures, but doesn't actually show the plane crashing. Their "sudden discovery" is suspicious, as no one knew of their existence before. Also the way in which the plane came in clipping the daisies, we are told, thus explaining why only the first storey was destroyed, and the rest of the facade fell onto it. It seems strange there were no eye witnessess as well. The sequence from France is difficult to explain in that the size of the aircraft should have destroyed much more than the 1st storey of the building, at least the 1st and second, and the damage looks much more consistent with a truck bommb, which was what was originally reported. But then what happened to the plane and passengers? There is no satisfactory explanation of the crash in Pennsylvania. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > here is a link at cnn.com trying to convince that a > crash really > happened. > > Video and photos are available > > It seems some doubts exist but no conclusive facts > or testimonies firmly > confirm the plane crash hypothesis. > > According to maps, the plane must have passed over > an unhabited area and > a traffic bridge, possibly full of cars. > It is said the plane was almost razing the grass > when it hit the > building. This should have been seen or even heard. > Such planes have > extremely powerfull engines. > > Strange CNN document. > > http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/03/07/gen.pentagon.pictures/ > > --- > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9617B Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: pentagone crash -continued [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- I would be suspicious of the French story, but for this sequence of photos suddenly appearing the very next day, as a major news story which "proved" the crash, of which the CNN sequence is the same set of pictures, but doesn't actually show the plane crashing. Their "sudden discovery" is suspicious, as no one knew of their existence before. Also the way in which the plane came in clipping the daisies, we are told, thus explaining why only the first storey was destroyed, and the rest of the facade fell onto it. It seems strange there were no eye witnessess as well. The sequence from France is difficult to explain in that the size of the aircraft should have destroyed much more than the 1st storey of the building, at least the 1st and second, and the damage looks much more consistent with a truck bommb, which was what was originally reported. But then what happened to the plane and passengers? There is no satisfactory explanation of the crash in Pennsylvania. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > here is a link at cnn.com trying to convince that a > crash really > happened. > > Video and photos are available > > It seems some doubts exist but no conclusive facts > or testimonies firmly > confirm the plane crash hypothesis. > > According to maps, the plane must have passed over > an unhabited area and > a traffic bridge, possibly full of cars. > It is said the plane was almost razing the grass > when it hit the > building. This should have been seen or even heard. > Such planes have > extremely powerfull engines. > > Strange CNN document. > > http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/03/07/gen.pentagon.pictures/ > > --- > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9617B Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: pentagone crash -continued [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- I would be suspicious of the French story, but for this sequence of photos suddenly appearing the very next day, as a major news story which "proved" the crash, of which the CNN sequence is the same set of pictures, but doesn't actually show the plane crashing. Their "sudden discovery" is suspicious, as no one knew of their existence before. Also the way in which the plane came in clipping the daisies, we are told, thus explaining why only the first storey was destroyed, and the rest of the facade fell onto it. It seems strange there were no eye witnessess as well. The sequence from France is difficult to explain in that the size of the aircraft should have destroyed much more than the 1st storey of the building, at least the 1st and second, and the damage looks much more consistent with a truck bommb, which was what was originally reported. But then what happened to the plane and passengers? There is no satisfactory explanation of the crash in Pennsylvania. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > here is a link at cnn.com trying to convince that a > crash really > happened. > > Video and photos are available > > It seems some doubts exist but no conclusive facts > or testimonies firmly > confirm the plane crash hypothesis. > > According to maps, the plane must have passed over > an unhabited area and > a traffic bridge, possibly full of cars. > It is said the plane was almost razing the grass > when it hit the > building. This should have been seen or even heard. > Such planes have > extremely powerfull engines. > > Strange CNN document. > > http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/03/07/gen.pentagon.pictures/ > > --- > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9617B Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: Fw: General Perisic: An American Spy? (UPDATE to TiM Bulletin 2002/3-3, Mar.
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- What is worse is that the Rosenbergs were almost certainly innocent. recently their brother in law has confessed he set them up to save his own wife. --- "Mrs. Jela Jovanovic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > > - Original Message - > From: TiM Publisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: TiM Readers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 3:50 AM > Subject: General Perisic: An American Spy? (UPDATE > to TiM Bulletin 2002/3-3, > Mar. 19, 2002) > > > > > > FROM PHOENIX, ARIZONA > > > > Here is an update to our latest Truth in Media > Global Watch Bulletin which > > is now available at our Web site. Just click on > the animated (green) THE > > NEWS button to go to our latest report. > > > > Of course, you can also click on the TiM Bulletins > Index button in the > left > > frame - to go to selections of our Bulletins > archived by geographic > regions > > and subjects, and in chronological order. Or > click on any other button in > > the left frame for other topics of interest. > > > > And now, here are the headlines of the latest TiM > Bulletin. Just keep in > > mind that our stories are CONSTANTLY updated, and > that the e-mail text > > enclosed below is often merely the first edition > of a story. So we > > recommend that you keep checking the TiM Web site > daily, so that you would > > not miss out on some important news or commentary > updates. > > > > Here is an UPDATE to the latest TiM Bulletin: > > > > > HIGHLIGHTS > > > > Belgrade2. General > Perisic: An American Spy? > > > > To read the latest update and all the LINKS to the > above stories, just > > click (or double-click, depending on your > computer) on the following Web > > address, and you'll be able to see it in full > color, along with > > accompanying images: > > > > http://www.truthinmedia.org/Bulletins2002/3-3.html > > > > - > > NOTE: To cancel the e-mail editions of our > reports, just reply REMOVE or > > UNSUBSCRIBE, followed by your e-mail address. > > - > > > > > > Caught Red-handed in Espionage Case, Perisic > Confesses But Pleads > Innocent, > > Citing Primacy of International over National Law > > > > 2. General Perisic: An American Spy? > > > > Belgrade Apologizes to Washington! For What? For > Doing Too Good Job of > > Counterespionage? > > > > BELGRADE, Mar. 19 - Imagine a former top American > military official, now a > > high-ranking government minister, being arrested > with two of his former > > military aides while meeting a foreign power's > spook at a restaurant. The > > charge? Espionage. Some secret U.S. military > materials, found in the > > foreign spy's briefcase, serve as evidence. > > > > All hell would break loose in Washington, right? > The State Department and > > the White House would send messages of outrage to > that foreign power, > > demanding explanations and apologies. In fact, in > the "good old days" of > > the Cold War, such domestic traitors could be > summarily court-marshaled > and > > probably executed, maybe along with the foreign > spy. > > After all, that's exactly what happened to Julius > and Ethel Rosenberg, for > > example. The couple were tried, convicted and > sentenced to death by Judge > > Irving Kaufman. They were executed on June 19, > 1953 for wartime espionage > > (see "Cold War Spies and Espionage"). And > Rosenbergs were "mere" > civilians > > who betrayed their country! > > > > Well, that was in the "good old days." What > happened on Thursday night > > (Mar. 14) in Belgrade, Serbia, was just the > reverse. A foreign power > > (America), which engaged in a failed spying > endeavor, and which got caught > > red-handed in its espionage activities, professed > outrage and demanded > > apology. And amazingly - got it, from the vassal > Serb authorities who > > rushed to defend the accused traitors. > > > > Furthermore, the three domestic defendants were > released by Serb > > authorities on Saturday (Mar. 16), solely on the > basis of the "enormous > > pressure by the international community, > specifically the U.S. > government," > > according to a Mar. 18 report by the Serbian > language daily "Glas > Javnosti." > > > > So much for respect of the law and for sovereignty > of Serbia and > Montenegro > > and its judicial system. O tempora, o mores. > > > > Here's what happened. > > > > Agents of the Serb military security service, > known as KOS, entered on > > Thursday night the restaurant "Saric," south of > Belgrade, and arrested > > General Momcilo Perisic, former chief of the > general staff of the Yugoslav > > army, along with Colonel Miodrag Sekulic and > Vladimir Vlajkovic. Perisic > > is currently serving as Serbia's deputy prime > minister. > > > > An American diplomat, (General) John David > Neighbor, the U.S. Embassy's > > first sec
Re: Hunt The Boeing [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Heather, amazingly, apparantly not. But this appeared, the sequence not in fact showing a plane, within 24 hours of the other story boing out, which is highly suspicious;- http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > OK, I see no plane-evidence. > What happened to the people who were supposed to > have died? There was some > wife of a Bush flunky. She called on her cell to > talk to her husband. Was > much made of her sacrifice in the DC press?? > Was this made up? Wasn't there a picture of the > plane clipping the tops of > the street lights which allegedly happened as it > flew into the Pentagon? > Aren't there eyewitness accounts? > This is too mad. Were there no photos of this plane > coming in? > Heather > > --- > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/ --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9617B Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: anti-male sexism & anti-Serbianism [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Oh no, not that ( expletive deleted ) Maggie O'Kane again. Nancy will object if I use the word. O'Kane was a British Foreign Office propagandist back in 1992-5, and her "reports" were played up, played up and played up again in Britain. "Where > > > > did Maggie O'Kane find that word in any > Serbian source? " She didn't, it will have come from British Foreign Office briefings. By her own admission she knew nothing about Jugoslavia. Neither did the extraordinary attacks by feminists in the US. and Britain come about by chance. The official strategy, as with similar peerceived radical groups in the early '50s, was to specifically recruit them through propaganda. The admitted strategy of Ruder Finn and other PR. firms was to exactly do that - feminists were specifically targetted. --- Nancy Hey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > This is also because false liberals try to portray > the image of Serbs as being > rapists. They do this to appeal to women's rights > activists, and too many > so-called "feminists" in this country are gullible > enough to fall for this > propaganda. > > They don't stop to examine the facts and see that > many Serbian women have been > raped by non-Serbian men in the conflicts in the > Balkans. > > The feminist movement in the United States is really > very disappointing. They > define "liberation" for women around the world by > the standards of American > culture, and materialism, without regard for the > native cultures of the women > they claim they are trying to liberate. Many of > them support Bush's war in > Afghanistan, believing his propaganda that American > bombs have helped to oust > the Taliban, and that the Northern Alliance that the > US has put in power their > is somehow more sensitive to women's rights than the > Taliban. > > They support abortion, and think it's a sign of > "liberation" for a woman to > have the "right" to kill her fetus, so it's not > surprising that they could > also justify the killing of innocent Serbian or > Afghan civilians, if they can > be convinced that the "ends" justify the means. > > peacefully yours, > Nancy Hey > > > > "T.V. Weber & Alida Weber" wrote: > > > STOP NATO: ¡NO PASARAN! - > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > > > > --- ListBot Sponsor > -- > > Start Your Own FREE Email List at > http://www.listbot.com/links/joinlb > > > -- > > > > Pete, > > > > You said, "Maggie O'Kane's article "Hunting > Karadzic" > > (February 20) follows the current tendency to > automatically > > grant authenticity to all anti-Serbian > testimonies." > > Good letter--I'm glad you pointed that out. > > > > With that in mind, it appears to me that there is > a > > relationship between the above "current tendency" > > and that of male-bashing. > > > > It may be politically incorrect for me to say > this, > > but hasn't anyone noticed the preponderance > > among Serb-bashers of women who are obviously > > embittered against men--and who have gleefully > > seized upon the war against the Serbian people > > as an opportunity to do extensive male-bashing > > along with extensive Serb-bashing? > > > > Just for starters... > > > > Pippa Scott, described below, who took off on a > > Serb-bashing tour as soon as her husband divorced > her. > > > > Similarly, the Mad Cow, whose husband divorced her > > some time ago--thus the spectacle of her bombing > > the Serbs and at the same time slobbering all over > > various KLA thugs and stooges. > > > > Hillary, the Ilsa Koch of Kosovo--no explanation > necessary. > > > > Elizabeth Dole, a/k/a "Mrs. ViagraMan"--neither > she nor her > > husband have ever been capable of loving anyone in > ANY > > sense of the word. An expensive pill is supposed > to fix that? > > > > Catharine MacKinnon, male-bashing lawyer and > professor, > > who spread vicious false accusations about Serbs > committing > > rape--which is no surprise, given that she has > been much > > despised and ridiculed for her stance that just > about all > > heterosexual contact is "rape." > > > > Does anybody care to count up the various fading > former > > Hollywood starlets, wannabe rock divas, and > discarded > > ex-wives and ex-girlfriends of prominent > entertainers, > > who have found solace for their wounded egos in > > Serb-bashing? > > > > Alida "The Serb from Hell" Weber, nee Jatich... > > ...from here, EVERY direction is up! > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "john_peter maher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "john_peter maher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 1:10 AM > > Subject: Good Radovan Hunting > > > > > > > > > To the Editor: > > > > Maggie O'Kane's article "Hunting Karadzic" > (February 20) follows the > > > > current tendency to automatically grant > authenticity t
Re: Fw: paddy ashdown's criminality [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- "Pantsdown" as he has been rudely nicknamed in Britain is awful, and his title is undoubtedly for services rendered. He has done this many times before over Jugoslavia. So he WAS a British agent - station chief, Vienna. --- "Mrs. Jela Jovanovic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > > - Original Message - > From: canauk > To: mailto:Undisclosed-Recipient:@SOLAIR.EUnet.yu > Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 10:36 AM > Subject: paddy ashdown's criminality > > > > > > > > IMMEDIATE RELEASE FROM CANA UK > > ( NB new postal address, telephone number & e mail > address. Details @ end of this transmission.) > > > > > > > TELL IT TO THE MARINES PADDY! > > Post colonial satrap Paddy Ashdown, otherwise known > as "Lord Ashdown", who acquired a dodgy title from > the British PM, as a reward for long years of > unstinting support for New Labour, while nominally > leading an > entirely different party, is criticised today for > comments he made Friday in testimony at the trial of > Slobodan Milosevic. > > William Spring is Director of Christians Against > Nato Aggression (cana uk), & a co-ordinator of a > recently formed national Committee for the Defence > of Slobodan Milosevic which held its first meeting > in London February 1st 2002 when > almost £1000 was raised. "About 100 people turned > up & we were addressed by Toronto lawyer, Christ > Black who like me is a graduate of MacMaster > University, Ontario, although we only found this out > afterwards" The meeting was also addressed by Misha > Gavrilovic, a Serbian spokesman in London. 'The > point of the meeting was to show the support Mr > Milosevic enjoys not only in Yugoslavia but from UK > residents of all sorts & different shades of opinion > & ethnic background. ( Since that meeting I've had > an encouraging letter from Harold Pinter. He say " > Chris Black is first rate isn't he? I think > Milosevic is giving them a real run for their money. > Let's keep fighting on all fronts!" )' > > One ceases to feel astonishment at the pith helmeted > Ashdown's infinite capacity for pomposity, violence, > self indulgence, & myopia. This befits someone whose > great grandmother was one of the survivors of the > First Afghan War, & as Ashdown has always fancied > himself as satrap , & was frustrated in that end in > Kosovo by the French, he has now become the UN's > Lord High Executioner for Bosnia. > > Ashdown appeared before the Hague Tribunal as a > witness for the prosecution when in fact, were the > Court properly constructed & impartial, with a brief > to consider crimes against peace & "the supreme war > crime" of planning, preparing & executing aggressive > war, he should have been in the dock, as it was > Ashdown who masterminded UK involvement in the March > 99 NATO war. > > (This may have come out in the testimony & cross > examination. I have not so far been able to see the > text of all of Lord Ashdown's remarks as they are > not yet posted on the Hague Tribunal web site. > > But in an exchange with Mr Milosevic, Ashdown > conceded the KLA are a terrorist army & that Mr > Milosevic was fighting terrorism. When Mr Milosevic > reminded Ashdown of incidents such as "Bloody > Sunday", Ashdown replied the British never used > oppressive violence for political objectives, "The > British government has never used tanks, artillery, > looting and burning to drive people out of their > homes, and if we did we would be before this court." > > Tell that to the Marines, Paddy, as you used to be > one, ( & MI6 station chief in Vienna). > > Such comments are tautological, as the whole point > of the NATO war on Yugoslavia was to use weapons of > mass destruction against a civilian population, & by > such methods to bring pressure to bear upon their > government - in short the philosophy of Bomber > Harris. > > In the 78 day NATO bombardment NATO attacked homes, > offices, maternity clinics & schools, & > holidaymakers travelling on intercity trains. > > These were deliberate acts of barbarity, & that is > why it is members of the 1999 British Government, + > Paddy Ashdown as prime mover of the NATO war, from > the point of view of UK participation in it, who > should be before an international Court, & not > Milosevic, whose defence is rock solid, that he was > fighting terrorism & defending his country from > external attack by Britain, Germany, France & the > USA. > > Ashdown, like the majority of British politicians, > lives in a flawed moral universe - it is a world of > delusion, cant, self importance & hypocrisy, & > because he never examines his own actions he doesn't > realise how fundamentally difficult it is for > ordinary people in B
Re: ZIMBABWE FACES MAYHEM, CHAOS AS MDC CONCEDE TO POLL DEFEAT [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Wow ! As Hitler said "if you have to tell a lie tell a big one". In Britian the story is being pumped out of " the violence of Mugabe's supporters ", " flawed election ", but their own officials admitted the contrary weeks ago. --- mart-remote <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > > This article was originaly published March 8, 2002, > a few days *before* the Zimbabwe elections. Now we > areabout to see the actions of the soundly defeated > MDC and the British government to punish the country > and overturn the election results. Note the last > paragraph of this article about the MDC being > supplied with counterfeit ZD $100 notes to finance > it's subversion and to wreck havoc on the Zimbabwean > economy. > > From:"Jim Yarker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:Brit/MDC subversion > plans for ZimDate:Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:51:43 -0500 > http://www.glob.co.zw/Political/mayhem_and_chaos_in_zimbabwe.htm > > > > > ZIMBABWE FACES MAYHEM, CHAOS AS MDC CONCEDE TO POLL > DEFEAT > > by Morgan Handidi > > Highly placed intelligence sources have reported > that revelations made by the British Foreign > Commonwealth Office to the effect that Mr Morgan > Tsvangirai, the Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) > candidate in the March 9 and 10 presidential > elections, is already privately admitting that he is > a beaten man in free and fair elections, has sent > shock waves across the MDC rank and file. > > Four weeks ago, the British Foreign Commonwealth > Office projected that 60 percent of the vote will be > won by President Robert Mugabe to 40 percent of the > vote for Tsvangirai. > > The sources say that the warning has been received > by the MDC as a signal for Mr Tsvangirai to claim > that he was not able to campaign in most parts of > the country because of alleged violence or the > threat of violence, and that the election results > were rigged. > > There is a growing consensus by intelligence and > political analysts that if the violent elements in > both MDC and Zanu(PF) now heed calls by the Zimbabwe > African National Union-Patriotic Front (Zanu-PF) > leadership for non-violent elections and those > elections are thereafter interpreted as "reflecting > the will of the majority of Zimbabweans", then Mr > Tsvangirai's subsequent claims will, in the main, > fall on deaf ears. > > The consensus has been reinforced by British > officials who pointed out that it is now highly > questionable whether such violence is in the best > interests of President Mugabe and Zanu-PF. Rather, > they see the violence as largely stemming from the > MDC. > > The British government has become frustrated with > the failure of the MDC and Tsvangirai to enunciate > clear-cut alternative policies in response to those > of President Mugabe and his Zanu-PF Government. "The > MDC thinks that it knows what it is against. But it > does not know what it is for," said one diplomat. > British Foreign Office sources cite conspicuous > contradictions within the MDC leadership over land > policies as well as Mr Tsvangirai's personal call > for sanctions against his fellow Zimbabweans that > badly backfired on the MDC leader. > > Yet Mr Tsvangirai's call for sanctions was in line > with those British politicians and white Southern > Rhodesians who are obsessed with sanctions against > Zimbabwe.These people, however, are sadly out of > touch with the historical and present realities of > Zimbabwe and, conspicuously, the region. Even MDC > politicians in Zimbabwe realised that Mr > Tsvangirai's statement calling for fuel and > electricity sanctions against his own country was > politically disastrous. > > They swiftly tried to distance themselves from their > leader's call but by then the damage had been done. > A further British admission is that Zanu-PF, while > it may have its in-house spats, is largely unified > and contains most of the country's intelligent > politicians. In sharp contrast, the MDC contains > only a handful of Zimbabwe's intelligentsia. The > British also admit that the MDC is an urban-based > workers party but that not all of the urban workers > support the opposition. > > Furthermore, the British have finally discovered > that the rural bonds of urban Zimbabweans are deeper > than they initially supposed and that the suffering > and losses of the war for independence form stronger > ties than they once believed. All of these factors > add up to what British diplomats based in Harare are > reporting to London and reinforce Dr Ibbo Mandazas > synopsis or guide to presidential elections > published in last weeks issue of the Sunday Mail > where a victory for President Mugabe and a defeat > for Mr Tsvangirai was predicted. > > ZERO OPTION > > According to the intelligence sources, the > realisation of an impending defeat at the hands of > Zanu(PF) has forced the MDC to activate the z
Re: German Recolonization? [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Kole, the writings of " Good Old Zbig" and his beliefs, go further than this, they are entire based on Geopolitics - the pseudo-science taboo for a generation because of it's association with the Nazis. But this is the reason Hitler so enthusiatically adopted it, - if you don't do this things you will lose out on influencing the world. But Geopolitics was invented by the British in the 1890's, and taken to America when the C on FR was founded in 1921 by the Anglophile "circles". " Glbally it is without peer in each of the > categories by which one > customarily measures international influence: > political ideals, cultural > resonance, economic strenght, and military power." The beliefs of these wretched people are that Britain, despite all the above "advantages" failed to take the opotunity of donig all these things in the 1900's-1920's and declined as a result. They believe you must dominate this "key area" of the globe. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > Rereading bits and pieces of Zbigniew Brzezinski's > "The Grand Chessboard" I > came across the following quote that struck me as > particularly important in > light of the recent controversy over the Benes > Decrees in Central Europe. > The passage also reminded me of Rick's recent > message regarding collusion > between the USA and Germany. In fact the following > quote is within the > context of a broader discussion of how the US-German > and the German-French > relationship plays-out to the benefit of all > parties. The striking passage > however - especially for its similarity to German > militarist ideology and > within the current context were the "human rights" > of German colonists in > eastern Europe is on the agenda again - is the > following: > > "On the map of Europe, THE ZONE OF GERMAN SPECIAL > INTEREST could be sketched > in the shape of an oblong, in the West including of > course France and in the > East spanning the newly emancipated post-Communist > states of CENTRAL EUROPE, > INCLUDING THE BALTIC REPUBLICS, EMBRACING UKRAINE > AND BELARUS, AND REACHING > INTO RUSSIA" At this point Zbig directs us to a map > of this zone, which, in > addition to the countries already mentioned also > includes parts of Spain, the > Belgium, Holland, Denmark, Romania, northern Serbia > (aka Vojvodina), central > Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia, Slovenia, northern Italy, > Switzerland, etc. What is > interesting is that Montenegro, Kosovo, southern > Serbia, Macedonia, Albania, > Bulgaria, Greece, and Turkey (the so-called > "Southern Balkans") are left out > of this zone. However, more ominous is what follows > in light of the BENES > DECREE controversy: > > "In many respects, that zone corresponds to the > historical radius of > CONSTRUCTIVE GERMAN CULTURAL INFLUENCE, CARVED OUT > IN THE PRENATIONALIST ERA > BY GERMAN URBAN AND AGRICULTURAL COLONISTS in East > Central Europe and in the > Baltic republics, ALL OF WHOM WERE WIPED OUT IN THE > COURSE OF WORLD WAR II." > (p.69) > > This of course falls squarely in line with the part > in the introduction where > Zbig puts America's role in the future squarely in > line with that of the > mission Hitler undertook. > > Similarly, although only tangentially related to the > above point, I found the > following quote in a 1996 booklet entitled "Foreign > Policy into the 21st > Century: The US Leadership Challenge", where the > importance of Bosnia for the > US's post-Cold War eminance is clearly indicated > (the book was published by > the Washington-based Centre for Strategic and > International Studies and was a > brain-child of non-other than good ol' Zbig, along > with a number of his other > CFR and Trilateral budies). The book was a > "consensus document" that > represented a two-year bipartisan effort to find > agreement on key areas of US > foreign policy in the 21st century. Here's the > opening lines: > > "For unto whomsoever much is given, > of him shall much be required. > - LUKE 12:48 > > Tomorrow is ours to shape. More than any time in > its past, the United States > is strongly positioned to influence the kind of > world it would like to see > unfold. Glbally it is without peer in each of the > categories by which one > customarily measures international influence: > political ideals, cultural > resonance, economic strenght, and military power. > But capitalizing on all > this assumes a willingness to do so. As the last > presidential and > congressional elections seemed to suggest, we as a > people have assumed a > greater ambivalence toward our international > responsibilities. In the > aftermath of the Persian Gulf War, for example, we > bagan looking to others to > pick up the burdens of global leadership. As the > rest of the world > recognizes, though, and AS THE DAYTON BREAKTHROUGH > ON BOSNIA CLEARLY > DEM
Re: Milosevic questions Ashdown [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Ashdown has an intelligence background, and although claiming to be making a "private visit" was in fact in support of British Foreign Policy, and he has made many such visits to Jugoslavia. It was most foolish to allow him into the country in the first place. --- Barry Stoller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > > AFP. 15 March 2002. Milosevic cross examines > Western diplomat for first > time. > > THE HAGUE -- Slobodan Milosevic questioned former > British opposition > party leader Paddy Ashdown on Friday, cross > examining a Western diplomat > for the first time in his trial for war crimes. > > Questioning one of his long-time accusers, Milosevic > was sharp to react > when Ashdown told the court he had warned the former > Yugoslav president > he would end up in the court one day over Belgrade's > repression in > Kosovo. > > "I warned you that if you took these steps and went > on doing this you > would end up in this court and here you are!" said > Ashdown, recalling a > conversation with Milosevic after visiting Kosovo in > 1998 to investigate > claims by the ethnic Albanian community of > repression at the hands of > Serb forces. > > "Could the witness please answer my questions and > not make speeches," > Milosevic replied acidly. > > The former Yugoslav leader questioned Ashdown about > the 1999 NATO > campaign against Yugoslavia. > > The relaxed and eloquent diplomat conceded nothing > to the former > Yugoslav president. > > Milosevic tried to make the point that Ashdown > believed there would only > be peace in Yugoslavia if it was "subjugated" to the > great powers, but > Ashdown dismissed it as a "laughable" notion. > > During the three-hour cross-examination, Milosevic > grilled Ashdown about > activities of the separatist Kosovo Liberation Army > (KLA). > > "I have never denied it was a terrorist > organisation, I have never > denied there was KLA activity and innocent Serbs > were suffering," said > Ashdown. > > Ashdown's testimony wound up Friday and the court > adjourned. > > The trial chamber is on Monday to hear protected > witnesses in a closed > session. > > > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > Barry Stoller > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ProletarianNews > > --- > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/ --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9617B Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: The pentagone crash story- hoax or not hoax [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Anyone got an English version, I can't seem to pull up a translation. However, is this article itself disinformation? --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > [Dear all, below an article from hoaxbuster.com, a > web site dedicated to > the thorough analysis of current web-rumors. This > article sheds some > light on this "thing" about the pentagone-crash... > that is polluting our > web lists since about 3 weeks... > regards] > > > Type : Rumeur > Statut :En cours d'analyse > En circulation depuis : Février 2002 > http://www.hoaxbuster.com/hliste/02_02/pentagon.html > RUMEUR - Attentat du Pentagone - L'effet d'une bombe > ! > > Une nouvelle rumeur se propage sur Internet, cette > fois ci relayée par > des sites aussi sérieux que le Réseau Voltaire, un > groupe > d'intellectuels chassant la désinformation. Il y a > quelques semaine, le > Réseau Voltaire révélait une gigantesque > manipulation : au milieu de > l'horreur des attentats du 11 septembre, le > gouvernement américain en > aurait profité pour essayer de faire croire au crash > d'un Boeing sur le > Pentagone ! Info ou int'hoax ? > > Relayée par divers sites, la thèse du montage des > autorités US a > rapidement pris de l'ampleur jusqu'à devenir un > incontournable du net. > Forums de discussions et mailing listes bruissent de > l'écho du complot > impérialiste destiné à apitoyer un peu plus à > travers le monde. Et de > fait, la théorie du Réseau Voltaire repose > essentiellement sur une > analyse visuelle évidente des quelques images > disponibles de l'attentat > sur le Pentagone . Le constat est simple : nulle > trace de cet " avion > fantôme " sur les clichés et vidéos ! La conclusion > est donc aussi > simple : Il ne peut s'agir que d'une mise en scène > délibérée des > militaires américains? > > Tout cela pourrait avoir du (bon) sens et donner > lieu à débat, si nous > ne parlions pas de l'un des quatre Boeing détournés > et écrasés le 11 > septembre avec leurs équipages et passagers à bord. > Or, à aucun moment > le Réseau Voltaire ne s'explique sur la disparition > du Vol 77 d'American > Airlines qui se serait donc volatilisé dans le ciel > au-dessus de > Washington. > > Dans une démocratie, toute question est bonne à > poser. Hoaxbuster.com a > donc également fait part de ses interrogations aux > responsables des > sites Réseau Voltaire et L'Asile Utopique. Nous > attendons leurs > commentaires que nous ne manquerons pas de publier. > Mais l'utilisation de tous les moyens de > désinformation pour prouver la > manipulation est-elle permise ? > > Quel est le mobile vous interrogerez vous. Le site > Belge La Vie du Net > lève une partie du voile en suspectant que, sous > couvert de déontologie > journalistique, il y ait une forte probabilité pour > que cette polémique > ait éclaté quelques semaines avant la sortie " du > livre qui explique > tout " dont l'auteur n'est autre que le président du > Réseau Voltaire > (sortie prévue fin mars). > > Dans la mesure où toute cette histoire ressemble > surtout sacrement à une > forme de stratégie marketing et que nous ne voulons > pas être en reste, > nous publierons sur HoaxBuster.com l'interview de > Renaud Marhic > journaliste au "Vrai Journal Papier" qui consacre un > article à cette > affaire dans le prochain numéro de son magazine. > > POUR ALLER PLUS LOIN > En anglais : > www.rte.ie (tout sur les attentats) > www.criticalthrash.com (photos sur le vif d'un > témoin) > www.cnn.com (carte détaillée du crash et > caractéristiques de l'appareil) > www11.cnn.com (animation flash du crash) > www.washingtonpost.com (interview sonore d'un > témoin) > www.washingtonpost.com (article du 11 septembre - > Nombreux témoins) > > En français : > www.asile.org > www.reseauvoltaire.net > www.technikart.com > www.laviedunet.be > > Mise en ligne : 12 mars 2002 > > > > > LE MESSAGE > > Les mystères de l'attentat contre le Pentagone > > La version officielle de l'attentat du 11 septembre > au Pentagone soulève > de graves questions. Etant donné la taille de > l'avion et sa vitesse > minimale de vol, on comprend mal comment il peut > avoir provoqué si peu > de dégâts. Le bâtiment n'étant pas endommagé en > profondeur, il semble > que seul le nez de l'appareil s'y soit encastré. > > Comment se fait-il alors que l'épave du Boeing > n'apparaisse sur aucune > photographie ? L'autorité militaire a-t-elle cherché > à cacher des > événements supplémentaires non relatés, a-t-elle > falsifié les faits ? > > Alors que les documents et témoignages sur l'attaque > du World Trade > Center par deux Boeing sont variés et permettent une > compréhension > précise et indiscutable des événements, il n'en est > pas de même pour > l'attaque du Pentagone. > > Aucune chaîne de télévision, ni photographe > indépendant, n'a été > autorisé à filmer la scène du crash dan
Re: Hunt The Boeing [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- yes, trully amazing isn't it. But what happened to the plane? --- Stasi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm > > --- > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9617B Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: Pravda: "US THREATENS RUSSIA WITH NUCLEAR ATTACK" [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- It may not be. He may have written, "inrended to use". In Operation "Duck Hook", Kissinger was perfectly seroius about using a tactical nuclear weapon if the vietnamese didn't surrender (sign the peace agreement he wanted ) by a certain time. --- Steve Wagner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > This is an interesting analysis. However, it does > contain one puzzling > statement: "The Americans wanted to use low-powered > nuclear bombs, > which were already used in their war in Vietnam and, > later in Iraq." > Possibly something was lost in the translation? - > Steve > _ > http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/03/09/26888.html > > Pravda.RU:Top Stories:More in detail > > 14:39 2002-03-09 > > US THREATENS RUSSIA WITH NUCLEAR ATTACK > > The local war in Afghanistan continues this can > be seen with the > naked eye. Operation Anaconda has stifled itself > in its own embrace. > The American blitzkrieg Washington spoke of with > such enthusiasm has > not worked in Afghanistan. The Americans and their > allies have suffered > serious losses, while militants of the Taliban and > Al Qaeda have > been annihilated in the hundreds, and, according to > the Pentagon, do > not intend to stop their resistance and even > continue to advance. > > However, what is very strange is that the rusty > Kalashnikov rifle is > more effective than US vacuum bombs. > > The military campaign in the Afghan mountains has > become one of the > most difficult ordeals for the US Army since the war > in Vietnam, BBC > observer Johnatan Marcus stated. > > According to him, for the Pentagon, it is a serious > test for the new > information systems capacity to carry out military > activities under > very disadvantageous conditions. > > In previous military operations, the Gulf War and > the war against > Yugoslavia, the US preferred to rely on its > aircraft. > > However, battles in the Afghan mountains are > another thing. The > Rangers and America's mountain divisions take part > in them. This > signifies America's attempt to transform its Armed > Forces from a > not very mobile military machine fit mainly for the > Cold War into a > more mobile army using the most state-of-the-art, > modern technologies. > > However, America's activities in the mountains are > complicated due > to many troubles. It is difficult for helicopters to > fly in the > mountain air. While Al Qaeda has large reserves of > grenade launchers. > > The Taliban and Al Qaeda militants seem to be more > experienced in > carrying out battles under such conditions: > mountains and bad weather. > That is why the battles are so violent. > > Americans are irritated with the militants > resistance, and they are > even ready to use nuclear weapons to finish such > battles as soon as > possible. The Americans wanted to use low-powered > nuclear bombs, which > were already used in their war in Vietnam and, > later, in Iraq. > Therefore, why not use them now, in another country? > > > The United States is transferring nuclear weapons > from storage to > its battle arsenal and plans to use nuclear weapons > against other > countries. > > According to the Los Angeles Times, possessing a > secret report of > the Pentagon, there are seven countries among the > potential targets of > nuclear attacks: Russia, China, Iraq, North Korea, > Iran, Syria, and > Lebanon. American military supposes that small > nuclear weapons could be > potentially used against these countries. > > Nuclear weapons could be used in the following > cases: against > objects that are able to withstand a nuclear attack; > as a reciprocal > measure to use of nuclear, chemical, and > bacteriological weapons; > and in the case of an unexpected development in a > military > situation, the newspaper writes. > > Moreover, the newspaper reports that Washington > plans to start the > development of low-powered nuclear weapons. > > The Pentagon speaks of possible situations when the > US might use > nuclear weapons: war between China and Taiwan, North > Korea attacking > South Korea, and the Arab-Israeli conflict. > > It should stated that the report appeared just at > the moment when > the Bush administration declared a reduction of > America's nuclear > arsenal, while, as a matter of fact, according to > the Los Angeles > Times, it is looking for reasons to use it. > > This is a dynamite, one expert named Bolton > said to the > journalists. I can only guess what these seven > countries > representatives would say at the Council of Europe. > > According to Bolton, Washington is not looking for > a reason to use its > nuclear arsenal against anybody. However, he > stressed, we will do our > best to protect the population of America. > __ > Dmitry Litvinovich > PRAVDA.Ru > Translated by Vera Solovieva
Re: The Texas Mercury: Who Does Propaganda Best? [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- We the Anglo-Saxons do propaganda best because we invented it. it's called "Political Warfare". Invented in Britain it got taken to America in WWI. Albert Pernay's book, (founder of modern American advertising industry) "Propaganda" is a classic and apparantly was Goebbel's bible, which he took round with him. --- Barry Stoller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > > > Propaganda: Nobody Does It Better Than America. > > > This is why communist propaganda actually hastened > the collapse of > communism: the creatures running the Commie Empire > thought they should > appeal to morality by calling for people to engage > in sacrifice for the > greater good. > > An especially egregious example of ultra-left > utopian nihilism there, > one of the most stunning examples I've ever seen. > > Let's deconstruct some of the shit above: 'This is > why ultra-left > liberalism actually hastened the collapse of > socialism: by positing that > socialism was the same as capitalism, only not as > glamorous.' > > Or: 'Socialism failed because the ideology failed.' > As if the idea > created the world, not the other way around. What > breath-taking > promiscuity and narcissism, this utopian nihilism > which sees itself in > everything it attempts to explain. > > 'Who does propaganda best?' The author flatters him > or herself to think > the above was even the most elementary propaganda. > > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > Barry Stoller > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ProletarianNews > > --- > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9WB2D Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: White Poison: The Horrors of Milk [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Not entirely true. NATO was specifically formed for the conquest and overrunning of Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union, when "Mad Harry" Truman's nuclear gunboat dilomacy and nuclear threats failed. Originally it was intended merely to provide bases for strategic and nuclear bombers, as well as giving support. Only later when all this failed did they go over to Plan "C", the assembly of large numbers of troops. --- Bill Howard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > - Original Message - > From: Nancy Hey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 2:57 AM > Subject: Re: White Poison: The Horrors of Milk > [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] > > >How true! Animals are completely defenseless to > fight back against the ways > >that humans exploit them for for human greed. > > Animals and humans share a symbiotic > relationship, > humans furbish animals with a protective habitat > and food stock while amimals furbish humans with > materials and food. > > Farm labourers are exploited by land owners and > it > was this social relationship here in the West > which gave > rise to NATO in order to protect the status quo > and > advance further afield. > > Insistantly, > > Bill. > > --- > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com --- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9WB2D Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
re: US accused of undermining Bosnians [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- This phenomenon is well known amongst clients when American and British policy before it has changed. But of course they mwere only the clients. But it isn't "Bosnians", ie the inhabitants of Bosnia-Hercegovina, but the Islamic elites, some fundamentalist, installed by the US. --- mart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > I'm not sure what they're complaining about. Bosnia > is a rump state, > created by, and dependent upon NATO. As such, it's > subject to the > political whims of NATO and the United States. > > When the use of Islamic terrorists suited the U.S > imperialism, Bosnia > was a convenient and useful base for these > activities. Now that *some* > of these terrorists have turned on their U.S and > NATO masters, the > Bosnians seem surprised at the U.S and NATO have no > respect for > Bosnian "sovereignty"!! Ha!! > mart > > "When you lie down with dogs, you wake up with > fleas" > > Original Message - > From: Barry Stoller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 1:44 PM > Subject: US accused of undermining Bosnians > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > > AP. 26 January 2002. U.S. Accused of Undermining > Bosnians. > > SARAJEVO, Bosnia-Herzegovina -- The United States, > by pressuring Bosnian > officials to turn over six terrorism suspects, has > damaged the very > legal system it is trying to build in postwar > Bosnia, relatives and > rights activists complain. > > Bosnia's highest court and the country's top human > rights panel both > ordered the release of the men, saying the > government lacked evidence > that they were plotting post-Sept. 11 attacks on > U.S. facilities in > Bosnia. > > But when the rulings came down on Jan. 17, Nadja > Dizdarevic, the wife of > detainee Boudella Hadz, sensed something was wrong. > > She and the other wives suspected that their > husbands, who worked for > Arab charity groups in Bosnia, were about to be > handed over to U.S. > authorities despite the court order. By nightfall, > cellphones around > Sarajevo were beeping with text messages: > > "In the name of Allah the Merciful, brothers and > sisters, come to the > jail tonight and support our sisters. Let others > know!" > > Although 300 supporters responded and scuffled with > police in a > night-long standoff, they couldn't stop the > handover. > > [N.B.] That Bosnians are embittered is clear: > Saturday's edition of the > magazine Dani carried a caricature on its cover of > Uncle Sam urinating > on Bosnia's constitution and the European Human > Rights convention. > > "Horrible injury has been inflicted on the rule of > law in Bosnia by the > United States," said Mark Wheeler of the > International Crisis Group, an > independent organization that monitors the Balkans. > > "The U.S. effectively claims that it has > jurisdiction over everything, > everybody, everywhere in the world and does not > care what anybody says," > he said. "The United States has no jurisdiction > over these men." > > U.S. Ambassador Clifford Bond said the men's > October arrests and their > handover were not the result of pressure "but of > cooperation" between > U.S. and Bosnian authorities. > > But Kresimir Zubak, a Bosnian minister for human > rights and refugees, > conceded: "The Americans didn't tell us what to do, > but they hinted that > further cooperation between the U.S. and us > depended on our decision." > > After millions of dollars and six years spent on > nation-building efforts > in Bosnia, critics are questioning why the United > States chose to ignore > the Bosnian Supreme Court and Chamber for Human > Rights. > > "This was a clash between the authorities and the > law," said Fahrija > Karkin, the lawyer for the six suspects. "The > bottom line is that the > police refused to carry out the decision of the > court." > > Belkacem's wife, Anela, who introduces herself > sarcastically as "the > wife of the one they call the al-Qaida chief for > Europe," said: "They > have no proof against him." > > Dizdarevic said her last glimpse of her husband was > just before special > police shoved him into a car and sped away. > > She said she and the other wives will file a > complaint with the European > Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg. > > "I will not stop until I put the ones responsible > for this behind bars," > Dizdarevic said. > > She accused the Bosnian government of "bending over > backwards to appease > the West." > > Wheeler, of the International Crisis Group, noted > that the Chamber for > Human Rights -- established by the 1995 Dayton > peace accords that ended > Bosnia's war -- is made up of local and > international judges, and its > rulings cannot be appealed. > > The United States "has shown that it has no fait
Re: "Partija Rada" praise NATO [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- This is fairly TYPICAL of an enormous amount of stuff which has come out of apparantly "left-wing" and "socialist" groups, particularly here in Britain. So similar is it that serious questions must be asked as to its origin. Whilst claiming impecible "anti-imperialist" and "socialist" credentials, by the use of language, and political positions, it ends up totally supporting American, EEC, and NATO Imperialism and is clearly designed to cause confusion on the left. Particularly these two lines;- The "right of self-determination" and "secession". The war just happened to start, then along came the EEC. and the US., worried by the fighting/ ( or in one variaiant, to exploit the situation ), so it was a good thing to Intervene really. I've had this identical arguement in meetings in Britain over several years, and bitter recriminations have followed. "How dare you, you're accusing us of supporting Imperialism !". "Well you are". --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > If you can stomach this crap read on... > > In a message dated 26/01/02 10:13:54 Eastern > Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > writes: > > > > Subj:Some notes on NATO > > Date:26/01/02 10:13:54 Eastern Standard Time > > From: HREF="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: HREF="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>[EMAIL PROTECTED], > HREF="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>[EMAIL PROTECTED], > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED], HREF="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>[EMAIL PROTECTED], > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED], HREF="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>[EMAIL PROTECTED], HREF="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>[EMAIL PROTECTED], > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED], HREF="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>[EMAIL PROTECTED], > HREF="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent from the Internet > > > > > > > > Resolution of Partija Rada on the NATO Pact and > Its Presence In Yugoslavia > > > > Troops of the NATO pact, together with its > political headquarters, are on > > the territory of Yugoslavia, stationed in Bosnia > and Herzegovina, Croatia > > and Macedonia. > > > > > > > > The American imperialists in co-operation with the > imperialists of Western > > Europe created the NATO pact in 1947. Worried over > the great victories of > > the Soviet Union, the creation of the socialist > camp, the victory of the > > Red Army in China, and the mighty anti-colonial > and anti-imperialist > > movement in countries of the Third world, they > created the NATO pact as an > > aggressive military pact against the Soviet Union, > China, and the > > liberation movements in the colonies. From the > very beginning of its > > creation it was formed as a striking military fist > to conquer the Soviet > > Union and other socialist countries, and to > restore capitalism there. The > > direct interventions of NATO in Vietnam, Latin > America and Africa are well > > known. > > > > > > > > At the end of the eighties, the Soviet Union fell > apart, the Warsaw pact > > was dissolved, and the countries in the framework > of the Soviet Union, as > > well as the countries of Eastern Europe, > liquidated socialism and proceeded > > to restore capitalism. > > > > > > > > When the main adversary of the NATO pact - the > Warsaw pact - disappeared, > > it would seem normal that the NATO pact would be > dissolved. Instead, the > > NATO pact was strengthened, it was armed with new, > most perfect weapons, > > and the military budgets of members of the NATO > pact have grown. Using > > economic, diplomatic, political, and military > pressure, it does everything > > to expand itself, not only to all countries of > Eastern Europe, but also to > > all countries of the former Soviet Union, and thus > to reach the borders of > > Russia. Its aim is thus to completely isolate > Russia, force her to her > > knees, so that she and the other countries of the > former Soviet Union would > > become some kind of semi-colonies, with > undisturbed use their huge natural > > resources, the abundance of cheap labor power and > vast market. It is > > obvious that the NATO pact is still an aggressive > military force of > > imperialism, which does everything, not only by > economic and financial > > means, but also by the military force of NATO, to > insure the reign of > > imperialism in the whole world. > > > > > > > > The NATO pact is a reactionary military force of > American imperialism, the > > most dangerous enemy of socialism and of the > peoples in the countries of > > the Third World. > > > > > > > > Why did troops of the NATO pact come to > Yugoslavia? > > > > > > > > The USA and the NATO pact remain, after the > destruction of the Soviet > > Union, the only superpower, the only global force > in the world. One of the > > strategic aims of the USA and the NATO pact is
Re: "Free Market" for Captive Consumers [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Of course he does, for the same reason we the Brits promoted Free Trade in the 19th century. This might be an attack by Palmerston on the German Zollverein. And Ameerica promoted this as a policy since 1945, it's just there were roadblocks in the way. And the promotion of Free trade was decided as policy in 1944. --- Bill Howard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > [Dripping blood and dirt from every pore, bound > and > gagged, shackled and chained, hooded, kidnapped, > interrogated, blasted and burned, collaterally > damaged, > foetally deformed, genetically altered, > embargoed, > starved, drugged and diseased we are cordially > invited to come and shop at George Bush II's > "Free Market"... > (Bill Howard)] > > > > [Via Communist Internet... > http://www.egroups.com/group/Communist-Internet ] > > [Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ] > . > . > - Original Message - > From: Alan Dover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: M-L list > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 7:48 AM > Subject: [MLL] FW: LASC: Bush on Central America > Trade > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Nicaragua Network [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 5:05 AM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Subject: LASC: Bush on Central America Trade > > > January 17, 2002 > > Bush Declares Free Markets Are Essential for > Americas > By DAVID E. SANGER > New York Times > > WASHINGTON, Jan. 16 - President Bush invited Central > American nations > tonight to strike a separate trade accord with the > United States and > cautioned Argentina against using the country's > economic crisis as an > excuse to backtrack on free-market reforms or return > to an era of > protectionism. > > Mr. Bush's speech at the headquarters here of the > Organization of > American States was intended, his aides said, to > demonstrate that > despite making counterterrorism the new focus of his > foreign policy, he > has not turned back on the central foreign policy > commitment he made > last year: A new focus on the Western Hemisphere. > > But Mr. Bush used the occasion to send a strong > message to the new > president of Argentina, Eduardo Duhalde, who more > than once in the past > two weeks has suggested that the American led > "model" of economic > development - particularly rapid market openings and > deregulation - > contributed to Argentina's economic crisis. > > Without naming Mr. Duhalde, save for a brief word of > praise for the new > president, Mr. Bush said that "Argentina - and > nationals throughout our > hemisphere - need to strengthen our commitment to > market-based reform, > not weaken it." > > "Shortcuts to reform only lead to more trouble," he > said. "Half-measures > will not halve the pain, only prolong it." > > Mr. Bush's economic and security advisers would not > say this evening > what "half-measures" he was referring to, but it > seemed obvious. > > While Argentina has abandoned pegging its currency > to the dollar, a > policy that kept inflation in check but badly hurt > the competitiveness > of Argentina's products - Mr. Duhalde has created a > two-tiered exchange > rate that is designed to inflict pain on major banks > and investors, not > the public. It is unclear whether that is > sustainable. > > He has also declared a moratorium on the repayment > of public debt, which > is bound to scare away any investors who did not > flee when the country > was sinking deeper into trouble. > > And while Mr. Duhalde has talked about the need for > fiscal discipline, > he has not yet said how he will deal with a huge > budget deficit. Cutting > government spending is likely to reignite rioting > that has already been > rampant through the crisis. > > The International Monetary Fund agreed today to > delay, for one year, a > loan repayment of $933 million, due for repayment on > Thursday. While the > United States voted for the delay, and touted that > as a sign of support > for the country, the reality was that Argentina is > in no position to pay > the money, and has already defaulted on other loans. > > When Mr. Bush met with Latin American leaders in > Canada early last year, > at one of the first big summit meetings of his > presidency, there was > little public questioning of the value of > American-style economic reform > measures. But tonight Mr. Bush felt that the > pendulum had swung far > enough that he had to note that "some are > questioning the path to > prosperity. Some wonder whether free market reforms > are too painful to > continue. Some question the fairness of free and > open trade, holding out > the false comfort of protectionism." > > But he argued that countries that "stay on the hard > road of reform are > rewarded," ticking off Chile's success in cutting > poverty, and Mexico's > recovery from the 1995 economic crisis. He noted
Re: "Free Market" for Captive Consumers [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Of course he does, for the same reason we the Brits promoted Free Trade in the 19th century. This might be an attack by Palmerston on the German Zollverein. And Ameerica promoted this as a policy since 1945, it's just there were roadblocks in the way. And the promotion of Free trade was decided as policy in 1944. --- Bill Howard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > [Dripping blood and dirt from every pore, bound > and > gagged, shackled and chained, hooded, kidnapped, > interrogated, blasted and burned, collaterally > damaged, > foetally deformed, genetically altered, > embargoed, > starved, drugged and diseased we are cordially > invited to come and shop at George Bush II's > "Free Market"... > (Bill Howard)] > > > > [Via Communist Internet... > http://www.egroups.com/group/Communist-Internet ] > > [Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ] > . > . > - Original Message - > From: Alan Dover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: M-L list > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 7:48 AM > Subject: [MLL] FW: LASC: Bush on Central America > Trade > > > > > -Original Message- > From: Nicaragua Network [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 5:05 AM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Subject: LASC: Bush on Central America Trade > > > January 17, 2002 > > Bush Declares Free Markets Are Essential for > Americas > By DAVID E. SANGER > New York Times > > WASHINGTON, Jan. 16 - President Bush invited Central > American nations > tonight to strike a separate trade accord with the > United States and > cautioned Argentina against using the country's > economic crisis as an > excuse to backtrack on free-market reforms or return > to an era of > protectionism. > > Mr. Bush's speech at the headquarters here of the > Organization of > American States was intended, his aides said, to > demonstrate that > despite making counterterrorism the new focus of his > foreign policy, he > has not turned back on the central foreign policy > commitment he made > last year: A new focus on the Western Hemisphere. > > But Mr. Bush used the occasion to send a strong > message to the new > president of Argentina, Eduardo Duhalde, who more > than once in the past > two weeks has suggested that the American led > "model" of economic > development - particularly rapid market openings and > deregulation - > contributed to Argentina's economic crisis. > > Without naming Mr. Duhalde, save for a brief word of > praise for the new > president, Mr. Bush said that "Argentina - and > nationals throughout our > hemisphere - need to strengthen our commitment to > market-based reform, > not weaken it." > > "Shortcuts to reform only lead to more trouble," he > said. "Half-measures > will not halve the pain, only prolong it." > > Mr. Bush's economic and security advisers would not > say this evening > what "half-measures" he was referring to, but it > seemed obvious. > > While Argentina has abandoned pegging its currency > to the dollar, a > policy that kept inflation in check but badly hurt > the competitiveness > of Argentina's products - Mr. Duhalde has created a > two-tiered exchange > rate that is designed to inflict pain on major banks > and investors, not > the public. It is unclear whether that is > sustainable. > > He has also declared a moratorium on the repayment > of public debt, which > is bound to scare away any investors who did not > flee when the country > was sinking deeper into trouble. > > And while Mr. Duhalde has talked about the need for > fiscal discipline, > he has not yet said how he will deal with a huge > budget deficit. Cutting > government spending is likely to reignite rioting > that has already been > rampant through the crisis. > > The International Monetary Fund agreed today to > delay, for one year, a > loan repayment of $933 million, due for repayment on > Thursday. While the > United States voted for the delay, and touted that > as a sign of support > for the country, the reality was that Argentina is > in no position to pay > the money, and has already defaulted on other loans. > > When Mr. Bush met with Latin American leaders in > Canada early last year, > at one of the first big summit meetings of his > presidency, there was > little public questioning of the value of > American-style economic reform > measures. But tonight Mr. Bush felt that the > pendulum had swung far > enough that he had to note that "some are > questioning the path to > prosperity. Some wonder whether free market reforms > are too painful to > continue. Some question the fairness of free and > open trade, holding out > the false comfort of protectionism." > > But he argued that countries that "stay on the hard > road of reform are > rewarded," ticking off Chile's success in cutting > poverty, and Mexico's > recovery from the 1995 economic crisis. He noted
Re: Did the left lose the war? [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- There is in fact another one that's overlookied. The were CIA and American assets until they revolted/ were no longer of use and Frankenstein's Monster turned on Dr. Frankenstein. They were used as recently as in Macedonia. They were also used in Kosovo and Bosnia-Hercegovina. But also the US. NSE. wishes to complete its take over of the world's oil supplies and the Europe Central Asia n Corridor - See Brisinski's book "The Grand Chess Board" But the "left" were aweful, they always are. --- mart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > Well said Barry! Thanks for that post. > mart > - Original Message - > From: Barry Stoller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 10:06 PM > Subject: Re: Did the left lose the war? > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > Andy Beckett, Guardian: > > Did the left lose the war? > > Kabul fell in five weeks. The Islamic world has not > erupted. So did > the left get it all wrong - and does it matter? > > Immediately before September 11, the outlook had > seemed reasonably > favourable for the left... the swelling profile of > anti-corporate > protests since Seattle, the polemics against > international trade and > sweatshops selling well in high street book shops, > the apparent revival > of militancy in some unions... > > Noam Chomsky, the dissident American academic who > is probably the > biggest influence on modern anti-capitalists, writes > gloomily: "It is > certainly a setback... Terrorist atrocities are a > gift to the harshest > and most repressive elements on all sides... > > Tariq Ali... is writing a book exploring the > similarities between Bush > and Bin Laden, and their ambitions to impose their > aggressive, > religiously-based ideas on the rest of the world... > > The anti-globalisation movement, you could say, has > spent the past > decade or so developing a sophisticated critique of > modern business - an > economic policy, if you like - but it has neglected > to draw up a foreign > policy, a coherent set of proposals for how > countries should operate and > behave towards each other. > > The anti-globalisation movement has been forced to > grow up in another > way, too. "Some people," says Wainwright, "used to > think that if > religious fundamentalists are anti-capitalist, then > we don't need to > challenge them." > > All of the above reveals the bankruptcy of > liberalism and anarchism, > especially if they're mixed together. > > It wasn't the 'left's' war. Who said bin Laden is > the 'left' anyway? > > Of course, if he was, we can be sure good old > Chomsky would be there to > demoralize everyone by pointing out the 'moral' > divergence between > praxis and his utopian conceptions. > > Tariq Ali? When he compares bin Laden to Bush, we > can be sure he'd say > the same of Lenin. And plenty of 'left' > publications would -- they > certainly did -- give lots of air time to that sort > of stuff. > > Does the 'anti-globalization' movement have a > 'foreign policy'? Yes. > > Mostly it's a repudiation of everything global in > favor of regionalism > and localism, i.e. small time, early capitalism. > > Which brings me to the false claim that 'religious > fundamentalists are > anti-capitalist.' They're not. Usually they are also > in favor of > regionalism and localism, i.e. small time, early > capitalism. > > The Soviets took on all of that crap, in > Afghanistan to name but one > battleground. Where was Chomsky then? Where was the > 'left' then? Where > were the anarchists then? Ah, hell, we know the > answer, it's all > sickening. > > Lastly. Although it wasn't the 'left's' war, it > wasn't 'lost.' Bin Laden > won. He masterminded a great hit on the great > symbols of US power and > got clean away with it. > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > Barry Stoller > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ProletarianNews > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9WB2D Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: URGENT! - Undetectable virus ALERT [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Andrej, thanks, it was on mine, Richard --- Andrej Tisma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > > > > > > This is a VERY serious e-mail. Please read > and > > > act ASAP! > > > > > > > > I received an e-mail from friend warning of a > > > virus that was > > > > passed on to him. His PC was infected and > since I > > > was in his address book > > > > it had probably been spread to my computer. > (It > > > was!) > > > > But the good news is... I followed the > > > instructions he sent me and located > > > > the virus. By following his instructions, I > was > > > able to delete the virus. > > > > > > > > The bad news is that you probably have it, as > > > > you are in MY address book! More bad news is > that > > > > my anti-virus program did not detect this > virus. > > > > > > > > And it is a VERY bad one. This virus lies > dormant > > > for 14 days and then > > > kills > > > > your hard drive. Here is what to do. Please > > > follow the instructions and > > > > see if you have the virus, if so, you need to > send > > > a similar e-mail to > > > > everyone in your address book. > > > > > > > > Remove the virus by: > > > > > > > > 1. Go to "Start." Then to "Find" or "Search" > > > > (depending on your computer.) > > > > > > > > 2. In the "Search for files or folders" type > > > > sulfnbk.exe -- this is the name of the virus. > > > > > > > > 3. In the "Look in" section, make sure you > are > > > > searching Drive C. > > > > > > > > 4. Hit "Search" or "Find." > > > > > > > > 5. If your search finds this file, it will be > an > > > ugly > > > > blackish icon that will have the name > sulfnbk.exe. > > > > DO NOT OPEN IT! If it does not show up on > your > > > > first "Search," try a "New Search." > > > > > > > > 6. Right click on the file -- go down to > "Delete" > > > and > > > > left click. > > > > > > > > 7. You will be asked if you want to send the > file > > > to > > > > the Recycling Bin--say "Yes." > > > > > > > > 8. Go to your Desktop (where all your icons > are) > > > and > > > > right click on the Recycle Bin and either > manually > > > delete > > > > the sulfnbk.exe program or empty the entire > bin. > > > > > > > > 9. If you found the virus on your system, > send > > > this or a similar e-mail to > > > > all in your address book because this is how > it is > > >=20 > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9WB2D Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: Richard: On Latvia ( or: Why I hate Gorby) [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Churchill went to Moscow, (he was perpetually rallying his allies), and in a discussion with Stalin passed him a pece of paper with a list of the ratios of Sphers of Influence Both Britain and the Soviet Union would have the each Central (Eastern to us) European country. Stalin ticked it and passed it back to Churchill, who reportedly siad "as this is rather naughty, we'ed better put it away". You'll find reference to it in S. Ambrose's book, "The Rise to Globalism" as the easiest source. In 1951, the First Sea Lord, (the Admiral of the Fleet) wrote a circular minute in Whitehall to senior ministers, warning that the Americans apparantly were working on the intention of a nuclear first strike, and there was a grave danger that this might get out of hand. Churchill, having returned to office, alarmed, visited the US., ostensibly on a goodwill visit, bit in reality to counsel against this. This was recently posted on the net. Got to Antiwar.com and use their search archive. --- Richard Knox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > Richard Roper - > > You make references to two things that I don't know > anything about and/or > don't recall: > > 1. the famous "naughty piece of paper" with > Churchill > > 2. the famous "First Sea Lord's minute" and > churchill's visit to America > > If you have a moment, I would appreciate it if you > could tell me more or > point me to a place where I can read about them? > > Richard Knox > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9WB2D Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: Richard: On Latvia ( or: Why I hate Gorby) [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- I'm sorry I can't agree. In 1945 the US. wanted to turn these countries into a "sphere of American influence". No government in Russia, including the old Imperial one could allow that, and it was even more bonkers after the events of WWII. It is most unlikely that Stalin wanted to overrun W.Europe, remember the famous "naughty piece of paper" with Churchill, also the whole of the western Russia/Soviet Union was utterly devestated. NATO was formed, not for defensive purposes but for nuclear first strikes on the Soviet Union, the allies forming both the bases and "support" for this. Later, when this strategy failed, they would provide bases for a large army amd covert operations for the invasion of Eastern Europe. These plans were utterly serious and part of the reason they failed to come off was the understandable panic of the Brit allies - the famous "First Sea Lord's minute" and churchill's visit to America in 1951 to dissuade them. Whatever meglamania Stalin may have had they were matched by that of a certain Harry S. Truman and the merry men of the Council of Foreign Relations. --- Richard Knox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > Cossack - you and I see it exactly the same. > > I must admit there is one area that is not > completely clear and that has to > do with Europe. > > As I'm sure you know - the Soviet position was that > they merely wanted to > hold the countries that formed a buffer between them > and Germany/France who > had in past invaded Russia. In fact these countries > became their empire - > example - in Moscow the good busses and elevators > and other somewhat hi tech > stuff came from those countries - they were an > important part of the Soviet > economy. I really don't know what > Stalin would have done with regard to the rest of > Europe if the US had not > founded NATO. It is a matter open to speculation > since we can't ask him. It > is easy for me to imagine his taking the great bulk > - including past hated > enemy Germany and France - since of the great > megalomaniacs of the century - > I think Stalin might have exceeded little Bush. > -Original Message- > From: Mitchell Jackson > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 12 January, 2002 6:47 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Richard: On Latvia ( or: Why I hate > Gorby) > [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] > Importance: High > > > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > Richard, > > Bravo sir! Seems we share approximately similar > views. In sum total, > though the Soviet Union was involved in many > countries, it generally was in > response to either direct security concerns (such as > Afghanistan) or in > response to requests from forces fighting to create > some form of livable > society for the majority. This stands in stark > difference from the US which > involved itself in numerous countries' internal > affairs for the benefit of > the tiny minority of ruling elites to the deteriment > of majority of the > populace and always inclined to Uncle Sugar. > > Cossack > - Original Message - > From: Richard Knox > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 21:33 > Subject: RE: Richard: On Latvia ( or: Why I hate > Gorby) > [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] > > > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > David > > Isn't there also an issue of freedom that goes > thus. They draft > someones son to right a wrong somewhere -and he > gets killed. Was his life > less valuable than the lives he was sent to improve? > > Second: I suspect that in some situations you > can not help someone > without harming them indirectly. > > Finally - I don't think that the USSR sent > military to Afghnanistan > primarily to impose socialist values. As you know > the religous fanatics > funded by the US were making raids into Soviet > territory and then retreating > to Afghanistan. The military was sent to create a > stable situation and > eliminate the instability on its border - but its by > product was a modern > socialist life for the citizens of Afghanistan. > > Richard > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 12 January, 2002 4:18 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Richard: On Latvia ( or: Why I > hate Gorby) > [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] > > > > > Heather: > > > > I wasn't very clear. But yes -- if a country > imposes western values > for the sake of imposing western values (as opposed > to righting some > injustice), this is imperialism, and is no better > than imposing capitalism > on the rest of the world. If, on the other hand, a > country is intervening to > overturn an oppressive system -- not always easy > to determine by > outsiders -- than this, to me, is a ju
Re: Richard: On Latvia ( or: Why I hate Gorby) [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- The Afghan women didn't think so. These were not necessarily "Western" values. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > > > <<< freedom, educated the children, was trying to bring > Afghanistan out > of the > 7th century. > > > Dear Heather, > > the Afghan Islamist reenactment of the 7th century > is something > to oppose, but, imposing western values, for the > sake of bringing a > country out of the 7th century, is not > *necessarily* a good thing. > > David O Q > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 12 Jan 02, at 0:51, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > > --- > > > > Richard, > > They (before-Gorbachev leaders in the USSR) were > for socialism. Can you > > imagine them all taking money today from the > bourgeiosie and saying nothing > > about the death of socialism in the USSR? I guess > I can't. > > > > I am passionately on the side of the working class > around the world. Those > > who oppose it or who lend themselves to defending > capitalism are the enemies > > of the children of the world, they are the enemies > of freedom and dignity. > > > > I cannot imagine anyone who I respect working > consciously for the foundations > > and think tanks taking blood money to live and > "work," as Michial Gorbachev > > does. He is a class enemy. If he were not, he'd be > criticising everything; > > poverty, the wars in Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, the > World Bank, the IMF, WTO. > > > > He's be organizing Russians to take back their > nation by force of arms from > > the felons who are destroying it. He's be in the > streets of Moscow and (I > > hate this name) St. Petersberg (Leningrad, for > goodness sake, LENINGRAD!!), > > with the workers, on strike, looting the food > stores, defying authorities. > > Organizing, fighting, agitating. > > > > He'd be telling the world that the USSR came to > the aid of the Marxist > > government in Afghanistan because the US and > Pakistan was supporting the > > feudal brutal Mujahadeen. He'd be saying that that > government gave women > > freedom, educated the children, was trying to > bring Afghanistan out of the > > 7th century. And the US, in its most expensive CIA > contra war EVER destroyed > > it.supporting the Taliban and the Northern > alliance and the heroin trade. > > Gorbachev would talk truth. Silence. he is silent. > > > > > I don't know who you are, Richard, but you must > remember the part in John > > Reed's Ten Days that Shook the World in which a > revolutionary soldier stopped > > a bourgeois group from promenading across a bridge > and walking past the > > building that housed the Bolshevik government. > When they asked to pass, he > > refused them, saying that either you were with the > proleatiat or the > > bourgeoisie, and the only people who could pass > were with the proletariat. > > > > Or do you know the US labor song, Which Side Are > you On? > > > > That is what this is about. This isn't about > whether you think it was nice to > > have Glastnost or Peristroika, it is about how > these policies helped lead to > > the destruction of the USSR and led to the > wholesale death of the Soviet > > people. And the end of revoulionary movements > everywhere. > > > > This temporary cessation of the foward movement of > the working class will > > have cost several hundred million lives around the > globe by the time the > > workers of the world finally organize revolution. > > > > Under socialism ,one can't afford to have > well-intentioned policies. One must > > fight agaisnt bourgeois tendencies and resist the > imperialists who are always > > going to try to annihilate socialism. > > > > That cretin Fukayama talked about an end to > histroy. The Enlightenment was > > stopped. Capitalism won, all was ducky for the > rich. It was not; but in the > > 1980s and 1990s capitalism spread around the world > like a terrible scourge > > and the revolutionary immune system that was found > WHILE THE USSR WAS STILL > > EXTANT was destroyed. > > > > Now that the capitalist system is globally > tanking, now that the > > overproduction in every nation is choking the > economies, now that the only > > real profits can be found in war, now the working > class will be waking up. In > > Argentina, the left has put aside their > differences and is talking and > > working together. In the US, young people are > joining together to fight for > > civil liberties and agaisnt war. These are small, > but indicative > > developments. > > > > Are you familiar with the Turner Thesis? This is > the final appication of it. > > The US has rub out of frontiers, the capitalists > can't invest many more > > places, the system has really outlived its > usefulness, and Gorbachev isn't > > on the same page as those who know this. He > worr
Re: Milosevic wants NATO on trial [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- > Subject: Re: Milosevic wants NATO on trial > [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] > To: > In-Reply-To: > > Nancy, > > we agree, but a theme song of Western propaganda > was > how closely THEY worked with Mr.Milosevic, which we > have repeatedly heard from time to time beaten out > on > the propaganda drums in Britain - bong, bong, boom, > bong, "there it goes again!" - the reason being to > whip up desire for "Intervention" - - "the West > isn't > doing enough! Since then we've heard a different > variation - " Milosevic says how much the West > cooperated with him, he''ll say so at his trial!", > an > extension of the same theme, > > > --- Nancy Hey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > > --- > > > > Yes, I don't think this would be a good angle for > > Mr. Milosevic to take, to > > claim that Western leaders "worked closely with > > him". I don't know when Western > > leaders ever worked "with" Yugoslavia, clearly > their > > greatest crimes were > > committed by working AGAINST Yugoslavia! > > > > Mager Lee wrote: > > > > > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > > > --- > > > > > > "Commentators believe Milosevic hopes that by > > calling Western leaders as > > > witnesses he will be able to humiliate them and > to > > show that they worked > > > closely with him during much of the 1990s as the > > old Yugoslavia broke apart > > > in bloodshed." > > > > > > Not this pathetic theory again! The BBC said > last > > week that the killing of > > > 107 Afghan villagers could prove "embarrassing" > > for the US. Now Milosevic > > > might be able to "humiliate" western leaders? > Even > > if one is to accept the > > > implication that the only thing western powers > did > > that was morally wrong > > > was to "work closely" with Milosevic (a horrific > > lie which is sickening for > > > anybody who experienced Krajine, Djakovica, Nis, > > Novi Sad and so on ad > > > nazium (I know it's not a word, but it should > > be!), why is it only an > > > "embarrassment" for them, yet Milosevic's role > > (still assuming one accepts > > > the lies) is described as "genocidal", > "monstrous" > > and "tyrannical"? > > > > > > Perhaps this is the sort of thing we can expect > on > > television in the future: > > > > > > Interviewer: "So, Madeleine Albright, what was > > your most embarrassing moment > > > as Secretary of State?" > > > > > > Albright " well, there have been many, > > it's a difficult job with > > > so many eyes on you waiting for you to slip up, > > especially being a woman! > > > Perhaps the time I attended the NATO 50th > > anniversary gathering and I > > > discovered that one of the other ladies was > > wearing the same shoes as me! > > > That left me a little red-faced, I can tell you! > > Possibly I would say the > > > *most* embarrassing however was the time when > NATO > > dropped cluster bombs in > > > Nis marketplace on a busy afternoon in 1999, > > massacring the shoppers and > > > leaving the survivors terribly maimed. I > certainly > > get a little hot under > > > the collar when that one is brought up! > > " > > > > > > Interviewer: "No! The SAME shoes?? How awful!" > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Barry Stoller > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: 09 January 2002 20:16 > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: Milosevic wants NATO on trial > > [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] > > > > > > > > > -- > > > The information contained in this message is > > confidential and is intended > > > for the addressee only. If you have received > this > > message in error or there > > > are any problems please notify the originator > > immediately. The unauthorised > > > use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this > > message is strictly > > > forbidden. This mail and any attachments have > been > === message truncated === __ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9WB2D Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: "Terrorism is terrorism wherever it occurs".... Really??? [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- That seems to be a fairly accurate analyisis of Master Tony and the history of the British Labour Party. --- STEVE KACZYNSKI <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > Blair has more incentive to put a "humanitarian" > mask on what he does. He > comes from a party which was once considered > left-wing, though in my view > the British Labour Party has always supported > imperialism (not without some > hesitation and internal conflict at times). Also he > has a role to play as a > "soft cop" for GWB's "hard cop". But he's still a > cop. > Imperialism and capitalism need their sanctimonious > creeps as well as their > "John Wayne" types. There is a good French > expression to describe someone > like Blair. He is a "faux Jesus". > > Steve K. > _ > > > >From: Francisco Javier Bernal > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: "Terrorism is terrorism wherever it > occurs" Really??? > >[WWW.STOPNATO.ORG > >Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 20:43:25 - > > > >HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > >--- > > > >Sorry, I mean GWB not CWB !!! > > - Original Message - > > From: Francisco Javier Bernal > > To: STOP NATO! > > Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 8:25 PM > > Subject: "Terrorism is terrorism wherever it > occurs" Really??? > >[WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] > > > > > >HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > >--- > > [The only thing I like of CWB is that, at > least, he's not so > >hypocritical as this "human being": We all remember > how well did he choose > >in 1999] > > > > Choose politics not terror, Blair tells > leaders > > > > By Kate Kelland > > > > > > BANGALORE, India (Reuters) - Prime > Minister Tony Blair says "only > >politics, not terror" can solve the tense stand-off > between India and > >Pakistan over the disputed territory of Kashmir. > > > > > > In a speech in India, Blair said Kashmir > would be high on the > >agenda of his talks with leaders of India and > Pakistan in the coming days, > >and he urged them to move toward dialogue. > > > > > > "One thing is clear -- only politics, not > terror, can solve issues > >like this," he said. Blair said the starting point > of any dialogue must be > >"total and absolute rejection" of terrorism. > > > > > > "Terrorism is terrorism wherever it > occurs," he said. "The > >indiscriminate and deliberate murder of civilians > to cause chaos and > >mutilation defiles any political cause." > > > > > > Relations between the two countries have > nose-dived since an > >attack on the Indian parliament on December 13 in > which 14 people were > >killed. New Delhi blames the attack on two > Pakistan-based militant groups > >fighting Indian rule in Kashmir. > > > > > > Since then, India and Pakistan have > reinforced their border forces > >in the biggest such build-up in 15 years. > > > > > > The two countries, which have fought three > wars since gaining > >independence from Britain in 1947, have scaled back > diplomatic ties and cut > >cross-border transport services. > > > > > > Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee > and Pakistan President > >Pervez Musharraf joined other regional leaders on > Saturday at a summit of > >the South Asian Association for Regional > Cooperation (SAARC) in the > >Himalayan kingdom of Nepal. > > > > > > The leaders shook hands at the start of > the conference, taking > >place in Kathmandu. > > > > > > "CALMING INFLUENCE" > > > > > > Welcoming Blair to his country, Indian > minister for information > >technology and parliamentary affairs Pramod > Mahajan, suggested that it was > >Pakistan, not India, which would benefit from the > "calming influence" Blair > >has said he wants to have on the two nations. > > > > > > "People say that you have come to cool us > down," he said. "We have > >been cool enough for 50 years." > > > > > > Referring to the global coalition against > terror that Blair has > >helped build since the September 11 attacks on the > United States, Mahajan > >said: "There cannot be one set of rules for one and > another set of rules > >for another. > > > > > > And mentioning Maulana Masood Azhar, > leader of Pakistani-based > >Kashmiri militant group Jaish-e-Mohammad which > India blames for the attack > >on its parliament, the minister added: "There > cannot be one rule for Mullah > >Omar (the leader of Afghanistan's fallen Taliban > regime), and another for > >Maulana Azhar." > > > > > > "AN ATTACK ON DEMOCRACY ITSELF" > > > > > > Blair slammed the "appalling" attack on > the Indian parliament, > >saying such acts were the work of "fanatics". > > > > > > "I view an attack on your parliament with >
Re: British WWI air force officer spied for Japan, files show [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Britaiin WASN'T neutral in the Russo-Japanese War but maintained "Benevolent Neutrality" to Japan. I was amazed when I went into it how far we were involved, and the amazing manoevres in Europe to keep France and Germany from invervening on Russia's side. The decision to align with France and Germany came relatively late, (after the Russian threat to Britian's position in the Far East had been eliminated). There had been naval scares against RUSSIA in 1895 and 1901. The Anglo-America rivalry had faded out by 1940-41, the bridge being the Depression period when America looked in on its own affairs. But by 1940-41 we couldn't win except by America help, hence the British ivolvement with FDR in enticing japan into war, Richard PS. We have come full-circle, Britain invented Geo-Politics in the 1890's against Russia, and now its back in a big way, see Zbigiew Briszinski's "The Grand Chessboard, American Primacy and its geopolitical Imperitives". --- STEVE KACZYNSKI <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > We have seen in our own times how yesterday's "good > guy" can become today's > enemy or "terrorist", and this pattern clearly > occurred in the past. Britain > was neutral in the Russo-Japanese War, for example, > but with a clear bias > towards Japan. By 1941, Japanese warmth towards > Britain had clearly > evaporated. Whether there were still those in > Britain who cherished a > relationship with Japan right up to Pearl > Harbor/Hong Kong/Singapore, I > don't know. > Certainly in the 1920s there was bad blood between > Britain and the USA, when > there was no talk of a "special relationship", > probably because the > dominance of one partner had not yet been fully > established. > > Steve K. > > > >From: Richard Roper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: British WWI air force officer spied > for Japan, files show > >[WWW.STOPNATO.ORG. > >Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 05:14:31 -0800 (PST) > > > >HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > >--- > > > >There has been nothing, which is almost certainly > >significant. > > > >To be an "advisor" to a foreign government in that > >period required official approval and also meant > you > >would be some kind of Agent. > > > >It almost certainly meant between 1920-22 he was > >strenghtening Japan as Britain's ally in case of > >trouble with America in the Far East. > > > >As you say there are contradictions within > >Imperialism, and during this period there was real > >rivalry btween Britain and America as to who was to > be > >top commercially in the Far East as well as > infighting > >as to who was the be No1 Imperialist Power. > > > >Japan was Britain's key ally. > >There was real recriminations at the Washington > >Conference, and had it failed there would have been > a > >naval race B + J v A, as well as a continuation of > the > >Japanese Alliance. > > > >In which case war would probably, and almost > certainly > >would have resulted a few years later around 1928. > > > >See > >http://www.glasnost.de/hist/usa/1935invasion.html > >for American reaction to British plans. > > > >Japan considered she had been done regarding > >battleship numbers by the Washington Conference and > >was being encouraged by Britain to build carriers > on > >spare hulls in order to pacify her. > > > >It looks like he was acting on the instructions of > onw > >part of British intelligence and being detected by > >another. > > > > > > > >--- STEVE KACZYNSKI <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > > > --- > > > > > > Perhaps. There are contradictions within > > > imperialism. > > > Has there been any mention of this in the > British > > > media? I certainly haven't > > > seen any, and it is a rather embarrassing story > > > from the establishment point of view in the UK. > > > There is a lot of rubbish on > > > the internet, but occasionally you get nuggets > of > > > info that don't make it > > > into the mainstream media, for whatever reason. > > > > > > Steve K. > > > ___ > > >
Re: British WWI air force officer spied for Japan, files show [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- There has been nothing, which is almost certainly significant. To be an "advisor" to a foreign government in that period required official approval and also meant you would be some kind of Agent. It almost certainly meant between 1920-22 he was strenghtening Japan as Britain's ally in case of trouble with America in the Far East. As you say there are contradictions within Imperialism, and during this period there was real rivalry btween Britain and America as to who was to be top commercially in the Far East as well as infighting as to who was the be No1 Imperialist Power. Japan was Britain's key ally. There was real recriminations at the Washington Conference, and had it failed there would have been a naval race B + J v A, as well as a continuation of the Japanese Alliance. In which case war would probably, and almost certainly would have resulted a few years later around 1928. See http://www.glasnost.de/hist/usa/1935invasion.html for American reaction to British plans. Japan considered she had been done regarding battleship numbers by the Washington Conference and was being encouraged by Britain to build carriers on spare hulls in order to pacify her. It looks like he was acting on the instructions of onw part of British intelligence and being detected by another. --- STEVE KACZYNSKI <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > Perhaps. There are contradictions within > imperialism. > Has there been any mention of this in the British > media? I certainly haven't > seen any, and it is a rather embarrassing story > from the establishment point of view in the UK. > There is a lot of rubbish on > the internet, but occasionally you get nuggets of > info that don't make it > into the mainstream media, for whatever reason. > > Steve K. > ___ > > >From: Richard Roper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: British WWI air force officer spied > for Japan, files show > >[WWW.STOPNATO.ORG. > >Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 06:32:26 -0800 (PST) > > > >HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > >--- > > > >This may not entirely be as clear cut as it seems, > as > >many in Britain did not want to abandon the > japanese > >alliance after the 1921 Washington Treaty and were > >concerned about britian's position in the Far East. > > > >--- Steve Wagner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >wrote: > > > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > > > --- > > > > > > from > > > http://www.japantoday.com/ > > > __ > > > > > > British WWI air force officer spied for Japan, > files > > > show > > > > > > Will Hollingworth > > > > > > Friday, January 4, 2002 at 09:30 JST > > > > > > LONDON - A pillar of the British establishment > was > > > passing secret > > > information about aviation design to Japan > during > > > the 1920s, > > > according to secret government files > declassified > > > Thursday. > > > > > > The Foreign Office files from 1926 show that > Lord > > > Sempill, reputedly > > > one of the founders of the Royal Flying Corps in > > > World War I, passed > > > details of British "aeronautical construction" > to > > > the Japanese naval > > > attache in London, Capt Teijiro Toyoda. > > > > > > The records, which have remained classified > for > > > the last 75 years, > > > indicate that the espionage took place roughly > > > between 1922 and early > > > 1926. > > > > > > Sempill, who died in 1965, had worked in Japan > as > > > part of the British > > > air mission and served as an adviser to the > Japanese > > > naval air > > > service. From the files, it would appear that > > > Sempill was stationed > > > in Japan between 1920 and 1922. > > > > > > Sempill was apparently well respected within > > > Japanese circles and > > > received a personal letter from the then > Japanese > > > Prime Minister > > > Tomosaburo Kato (1922-1923) who thanked Sempill > for > > > his work with the > > > Japanese Navy which he described as "almost > epoch > > > making." > > > > > > The files show that after his return to > Britain, > > > intelligence > > > s
Re: British WWI air force officer spied for Japan, files show [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- This may not entirely be as clear cut as it seems, as many in Britain did not want to abandon the japanese alliance after the 1921 Washington Treaty and were concerned about britian's position in the Far East. --- Steve Wagner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > from > http://www.japantoday.com/ > __ > > British WWI air force officer spied for Japan, files > show > > Will Hollingworth > > Friday, January 4, 2002 at 09:30 JST > > LONDON - A pillar of the British establishment was > passing secret > information about aviation design to Japan during > the 1920s, > according to secret government files declassified > Thursday. > > The Foreign Office files from 1926 show that Lord > Sempill, reputedly > one of the founders of the Royal Flying Corps in > World War I, passed > details of British "aeronautical construction" to > the Japanese naval > attache in London, Capt Teijiro Toyoda. > > The records, which have remained classified for > the last 75 years, > indicate that the espionage took place roughly > between 1922 and early > 1926. > > Sempill, who died in 1965, had worked in Japan as > part of the British > air mission and served as an adviser to the Japanese > naval air > service. From the files, it would appear that > Sempill was stationed > in Japan between 1920 and 1922. > > Sempill was apparently well respected within > Japanese circles and > received a personal letter from the then Japanese > Prime Minister > Tomosaburo Kato (1922-1923) who thanked Sempill for > his work with the > Japanese Navy which he described as "almost epoch > making." > > The files show that after his return to Britain, > intelligence > services in Britain became suspicious about his > activities and > obtained a warrant from the Home Secretary to search > Sempill's home. > > They found correspondence between the Japanese > naval attache and > Sempill. In addition, there was evidence that > Sempill had been paid > for his services. > > According to the files, Sempill also tried to get > details of a secret > seaplane, codenamed Iris, which was being built by a > British company > where he also acted as an adviser. > > Sempill allegedly tried to get information by > getting into the > plane's hangar and then talking to the staff. > > It is unclear from the documents if any secret > information was > gleaned and whether it was passed on to Japan. > > The Foreign Office became involved in the Sempill > case after learning > that he was on the verge of being appointed Greece's > aeronautical > adviser in March 1926. > > The Security Services advised the Foreign Office > and the British > Embassy in Athens that Britain could not be seen to > endorse Sempill's > appointment because of his past activities. > > However, public prosecutors decided not to press > charges against > Sempill as the evidence against him involved > photographic copies of > letters written by Sempill to the attache and the > government would > have to reveal how it got this information and > disclose its sources. > > Regarding the flying boat incident, prosecutors > believed it would be > hard to take action against Sempill as he served as > an occasional > adviser to the company, and the employees he talked > to might not have > actually considered the project as being top secret. > > Sempill, who was frustrated by what he regarded > was a whispering > campaign designed to stop him from getting the > appointment in Greece, > demanded to see security chiefs. > > At the meeting they told him that they knew of his > links to the > Japanese attache. The documents say Sempill then > realized that he had > been lucky to get away without any charges and > stopped his complaints. > > The Daily Telegraph on Thursday described Sempill > as a "pillar of the > British establishment" and called him one of the > founders of the > Royal Flying Corps in World War I and that his > father was an aide to > King George V. > > Sempill was chairman of the Royal Aeronautical > Society in 1926 and > served as a member of the Royal Naval Air Service > between 1939 and > 1941, the newspaper said. > > Japan awarded Sempill the Order of the Rising Sun > in 1961, it said. > > (Kyodo News) > > > Click the link below to view this article and > related discussions on > Japan Today > http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&id=189487 > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > http://greetings.yahoo.com > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topic
Re: Western Puppets Call For More Bombing, Total Occupation [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Rick is right. Let's see what so called leftists now say. The object is a puppet government, and total hostility to anyone in the "Northern Alliance" with any links to the PDPA. Remenber Karzai was the US>'s heroin "Fixer" and organiser and has been brought out of retirement for this. --- Rick Rozoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > [Recall that Mssrs F.B., R. F., N. C., E. M. and too > many others to mention have - dutifully passed on to > this very list - aimed all their venom at the > so-called Northern Alliance, particularly those in > any > way linked to the former PDPA government. > Now that the US and NATO have installed their > 'Pushtun' puppets in Kabul - much to the delight of > the West's favorite 'leftists' no doubt - just see > how > more humane and 'progressive' they are. > Some people persist in following State Department > dictates.] > > > Karzai backs US bombings, wants peacekeepers all > over > Afghanistan > Afghanistan's interim leader Hamid Karzai backed US > bombings of terrorist targets in his country, but > expressed concern about mounting civilian > casualties, > in an interview published in The New York Times. > "We want to finish terrorists in Afghanistan; we > want > to finish them completely," Karzai said. "But we > must > also make sure our civilians do not suffer." > He also told the daily Tuesday in his office at > Gulkhanna Palace in Kabul that he wanted to see > multinational peacekeepers in other cities besides > Kabul, adding that Afghans from all over the country > had asked him to send peacekeepers. > Karzai, who took office December 22 after the > Taliban > regime was toppled by US-backed opposition forces, > acknowledged a problem of lawlessness in Afghanistan > and said he was appointing provincial governors to > deal with local security. > He said he was investigating the incident in which > some 70 civilians were killed during a US raid on a > suspected terrorist arms dump in Paktia province on > Saturday, which the Pentagon partly blamed on > members > of Osama bin Laden's terrorist al-Qaeda network for > hiding among the local population. > He told the paper that he had sent a helicopter to > ferry elders from Paktia to Kabul and that another > group of tribal leaders had driven to the capital to > help in the investigation. > Karzai said he also planned to raise the issue of > civilian deaths with US officials this week. > Asked when civilian casualties would become > unbearable > in the war on terrorism, he said, "We must make sure > there is no civilian cost at all." > An aide to Karzai suggested rival groups in the area > of the bombing may have deliberately fed faulty > information to US officials to help them in their > power struggle. > "People are using this to settle old scores. This is > politically motivated," said the aide whose identity > was not given. > Despite the civilian toll, Karzai said he was "glad > the United States has joined in" to fight terrorism, > adding that he had ordered the arrest of Taliban > leader Mullah Mohammad Omar and welcomed US > involvement in the mission. > Karzai said that lower-level Taliban fighters, whom > he > termed as "common people," would be let out of > prison > and allowed to go home. > But "The bad guys will stay," he added, referring to > the Taliban leadership and foreigners who fought on > the Taliban's side. > The president said restoring economic order to > Afghanistan was a top priority, "as important as > security." He said he was moving quickly to set up a > customs system and other mechanisms to generate > revenue, select a head of the central bank and work > out a new currency policy. > Karzai refused to give an explanation for the > continued presence of Afghan troops in Kabul > barracks, > implying a change in the Bonn agreement which called > for all Afghan armed units to leave the city. All he > would say was: "There is a new agreement." > According to Western military sources, the Afghans > insisted that in the Dari language the agreement > called for troops to be removed from the "streets of > Kabul." > On a separate issue, Karzai suggested that > disarmament > in Afghanistan would not be as comprehensive as some > believe. > "There are good and bad people," he said. "The bad > guys should be disarmed by whatever means." > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > http://greetings.yahoo.com > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9WB2D Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://ww
Re: From John Lennon to V.I. Lenin [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- This just shows how WSM are another oufit that ALWAYS get it wrong! John Lennon was considered sufficiently dangerous for the Dark Side to go out and assassinate him. Ever read the book? --- Barry Stoller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > > > Maybe it's because George Harrison recently died or > maybe it's that > Christmas time always reminds me of the Beatles -- > because, as a kid, a > Beatles (or post-Beatles) record was my favorite > Christmas present. > Either way, I surprised myself by pulling out some > Beatles records and, > at least momentarily, enjoying them. Against my > better judgment, I > should add. > > I really cannot stand the Beatles. > > And it's not just that I've heard it all to death, > although I have. If > you think the 1960s was bad, let me assure you the > 1970s was worse. At > least in the 60s, you didn't have to hear EVERY > Beatles album all the > time: some of those albums didn't yet exist. In the > 70s, though, every > last song was incessantly churning out of the radio > or the stereo > nearest you. All the time, year after year, the 70s > was one long dull > elegy for the 60s. > > And, of all the Beatles, it is John Lennon that > offends me the most. > > Probably it's a parent love-hate thing. Back in my > stupid teenybopper > days, I wanted to BE friggin' John Lennon. The hair, > the glasses, the > whole deal. > > And: I struggled in semi-pro bands for some 15 > years. > > The 'radical' Beatle, the 'revolutionary' Beatle. A > rebel hero for a > rebel wannabe. A middle class hero is something to > be (the working class > dudes who went off to Vietnam, they didn't like John > Lennon -- today, > the media airbrushes that out of the story). > > What sort of rebellion was it, though? A few > putdowns of Christianity > here and there. Dope. 'Protest' music, most of it > simple liberalism, > anarchism at the most daring -- plus an especially > infamous > anti-communist song. Naked on an album cover. > > I wonder what his kid, Julian, thought of that nude > album cover. Dad > with his new girlfriend. Julian was about 8 at the > time. Go to any store > and you'll find a copy of John Lennon's 'Drawings > for Sean.' There's no > 'Drawings for Julian,' though. > > 'And if ya go around with pictures of Chairman Mao, > you'll never make it > with anyone anyhow.' A few years later, John Lennon > was on the Dick > Cavett show, sporting a Mao pin. When Cavett pointed > out the obvious > contradiction, Lennon shrugged his shoulders and > said: 'Chairman Mao is > where its at right now.' Yoko grunted 'right on' or > something equally > profound. > > How 'revolutionary' was John Lennon? In the big > Rolling Stone interview, > the 1970 one later released as 'Lennon Remembers' > (jeez, the nerve), he > says 'In Britain, we have socialism, a nice > socialism.' So 'nice' was > that socialism, a couple of years later he went for > the big tax break in > the US. Hey, reminds me, the Beatles did a big > anti-tax song. > > Faux rebellion for faux radicals. Utopian socialism > for those > procapitalist supporters with a bad conscience. > 'Sure, I'm for socialism > ... er, as long as it's heaven on earth.' Funny > stance for a guy who > said 'imagine there's no heaven.' > > Yes, it's a parent thing. Angry at the father figure > for not earning his > pedestal. Angry at the hero for bullshitting me. > > Angry at the whole ideology of pop music, too. Smoke > pot, play guitar, > and you, too, can shine on. Pop stars are always so > happy to point that > they never bothered with college or anything like > that. Who needs skills > when biological determinism and lottery luck will > do? > > And here I am: on the other side of the equation. > > The Marxist is the complete reversal of the pop > star. While the pop > star, invariably coming up from 'humble origins,' is > the working class > class traitor, the prole who goes to shill for the > capitalist ideology, > the Marxist is invariably the middle class class > traitor, the educated > guy who turns his wits against the very ideology > that educated him. > > No one who 'believes' in the class ascension of pop > stardom can really > penetrate the Marxist perspective. Like the man > said, communism is for > people with nothing to lose but their chains. The > pop star, the whole > hero worship of pop stars, is, by contrast, one of > the chains. > > The whole 'star system' is a glamorized > reinforcement for wealth > stratification and social hierarchy. No said it > better than movie critic > Libby Gelman in Newsweek magazine: 'Gorgeous movie > stars prove that > there is no justice -- and that this is a good > thing.' A psychedelic > Rolls Royce is still a Rolls. > > So now I understand why V.I. Lenin once said that he > had no patience for > music or the arts. All of that stuff is great -- but > it's for after the > work is
Re: Re. The World Socialist Movement sucks! [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Oh no it's not back to the "State Capitalism" argument again is it! It is even more ludicrous to argue this because Cuba etc. have wages, money, a stste etc. it is farcical to argue every country on earth is a part of the capitalist systerm. --- John Tomson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > Hi Barry &all > > Barry Stoller wrote: > > The WSM sucks! > > Wow. What a way to get taken seriously. > According to your logic then, you must blow. > > > > The WSM criticize all actual socialism, supporting > only the > 'socialist > > ideal.' > > > What you think is actual socialism is a big fat lie. > Wake and smell the > > state capitalism. If you bothered to look into our > case, you would see > that we hold socialism attempted in one region or > country is doomed to > failure. So lets get past blunder #1 in attacking > our case and discover > > what socialism really is and not what the american > media tell you it > is. > > > According to the 'Objectivists,' there is no > 'real' capitalism. It's > an > > 'unknown ideal' corrupted in practice by horrible > 'collectivists' > like > > Bill Clinton. Only when there are no, absolutely > NO, restrictions on > > capital whatsoever -- child slavery, the works -- > then, and only > then, > > will the 'real' thing occur. Until then, it's only > 'degenerated' or > > 'deformed' capitalism. > > > > Get the comparison here? > > No, because invent our position and them condemn it > by association all > in > one breath. > > We could care less about Rand and the objectivists > opinions of > capitalism. If you want to commit the logical > suicide of attempting to > dismiss our case just because in your mind we > resemble a group you do > not like, then by all means go ahead. The crickets > will be your > audience. > We don't wish for the purest form of socialism, we > work for socialism, > which has not and does not exist anywhere on earth. > What is called > "socialism" or "communism" is really just > totalitarian state > capitalism. > In ChinaCubaKoreaUSSR, etc they still > - have money > - have a state > - work for wages > therefore what is going on in those places is not > socialism at all. > Every > country in the world is part of the capitalist > system. The management > styles differ, but they are all capitalist. > > > > The point: if we reject the crap Ayn Rand line > posited above as sorry > > utopian apologetics, then, following that > rejection, we must also > reject > > the same when it is practiced by leftists and > 'leftists.' > > > You can do what ever you want to do and sound like > some network tv > political pundit while you are doing it. If you > think you are going to > dismiss our case with a single wave of your logical > wand, without even > bothering to find out the most fundamental > principles of our > organization (you even used utopian as an > insult...puhleeez), then I > have no choice but to guffaw in your general > direction and hand you > your > troll certificate. We've been around since 1904 for > gawds sake! > > By the way, we are not leftists. We do not fit the > traditional > political spectrum which gauges the government's > involvement in the > lives of people because we don't want any > government. It's pretty plain > > you know very little of what we stand for and prefer > to make glaring > and > erroneous assumptions. > > > > Capitalism has a history -- a history in the real > world -- and that > > history forms its critique AND its support. > > > You are right here. > > > > Likewise, socialism has a history -- a history in > the real world -- > and > > that history forms its critique AND its support. > > > You are silly here. > > > > To criticize WITHOUT acknowledging ANY support is > to clearly take the > > other side. > > > Then why did you do it? > > jt > > www.worldsocialism.org > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for > all of > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at > http://shopping.yahoo.com > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9WB2D Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: WHY THE WORLD NEEDS TO KNOW ABOUT THE SOVIET PAST [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- This article, whilst appearing to address the issues, in fact ignores them. The key issues are;- The Wars of Intervention 1917-22, which naturally totally enraged the Russians. The Stab in the Back Imperial Russia had been the strongly courted ally of Britain, France etc., both before and during the war. Fairly naturally this was seen as a stab in the back, including by many former army officers. The pro-Nazi background of many Corporate Lawyers and Wall Street financiers now incorporated into the "NSE" after WWII. The Russians had a real grievance over "No Second Front in 1942". The original plan - see "The Victory that Never Was - 1943" called for a landing in N. France, Netherlands in 1943. There were plans, consequently to set up pro-Western governments in Eastern European capitals before the red Army got there. I could go on. --- Miroslav Antic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > Le Monde diplomatique > > December 2001 > > WHY THE WORLD NEEDS TO KNOW ABOUT THE SOVIET PAST > > The history of the Russian future > > By MOSHE LEWIN ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > Professor emeritus, University of Pennsylvania. > Author of The making of > the Soviet system: essays in the social history of > interwar Russia, > Methuen, London, 1985, and The Gorbachev phenomenon: > a historical > interpretation, Radius, London, 1988 The Soviet > system created in 1917 > finally collapsed a decade ago with Mikhail > Gorbachev's resignation, and > was replaced by the Russian Federation. But we still > do not understand > what the Soviet system was like. What was the > relationship between > Stalinism and Tsarism? How did conservatism > andbureaucracy defeat the > need for reform? Russia now is divided between > nostalgia and rejection > of its past. > > We need to correct two mistakes in contemporary > thought about the > Soviet Union: the confusion of anti-communism with > real analysis of the > USSR and the belief that the entire history of > the Soviet Union was > Stalinism, or one long gulag. > > Anti-communism is an ideology that pretends to > be scientific. Under > cover of a commitment to democracy, it ignores > reality and promotes > conservatism by exploiting the dictatorial nature of > a hostile regime. > German intellectuals who emphasised Stalin's > atrocities to whitewash > Hitler did this. McCarthyism in the United States > was based on the fear > of communism. The West, in defending human rights, > has been indulgent > to some and castigated others, but has contributed > little to a proper > understanding of the Soviet system. > We cannot easily classify the Soviet system > because except during > the civil war period, when it was little more than a > military camp there > were several different Soviet systems. Russian > history is a laboratory > in which we can study the development of different > authoritarian > systems and their crises down to the present day. > Socialism has been > understood as a deepening, rather than a rejection, > of political > democracy. Its tenets are socialisation of the > economy and > democratisation of the political regime. But in the > USSR, there was only > statification of the economy and bureaucratisation > of politics. We > cannot describe the Soviet system > after the death of Stalin in 1953 as socialism, > since a prerequisite > of socialism is that economic assets are owned by > society as a whole, > not by a bureaucracy. > The Soviet system has been discussed for too > long in the wrong, > "socialist" terms: the confusion arose because the > USSR was not a > capitalist economy its economic assets were owned by > the state and > entrusted to top-level bureaucrats. So the Soviet > system belongs in the > same category as traditional regimes where the > ownership of vast estates > conferred power over the state. The > pre-Soviet-Revolutionary Muscovy > autocracy maintained an influential bureaucracy, > even though the > sovereign held absolute power. The bureaucracy also > became all-powerful > in the Soviet Union, and the resulting "bureaucratic > absolutism" was a > modern version of Tsarist rule. > Although the bureaucratic Soviet state > recruited its personnel from > among the lower classes, it inherited Tsarist > institutions and used > Tsarist methods. Even Lenin complained that > whole sections of the > Tsarist administration remained in place after the > revolution unavoidably, since the new regime had > much to learn, and had > to rely on the experience of government departments, > which operated by > the old methods. A new state was created, but its > civil servants were > ancien regime. > Lenin's problem was improving efficiency. > Whenever a new government > department was needed, a special commission was > appointed to supervise > its establishment. The usual practice was to ask a > historian o
Re: The effects of Hollywood pro-war propaganda on our society [WWW.STOPNATO....
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- No, it's about Bosnia-Hercegovina, and is absolutely aweful. it really is at the level of war propaganda. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > >How about boycotting Hollywood altogether? It > serves me well. > > > On 13 Dec 01, at 0:03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > > --- > > > > In a message dated 12/12/2001 5:33:03 PM Pacific > Standard Time, > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > > > > I urge everybody to boycott this movie "BEHIND > ENEMY LINES"! > > > > Is this the one coming out about Somalia? How long > does it take to produce a > > movie? > > Cynthia > > > > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9WB2D Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: For Richard R, Barry S etc: On the SU's Afghan war, 1979-89 [WWW.STOPNATO.OR
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- The "Quislings Marxists" - good name - are people and organisations like you who are always there supporting the latest action of Imperialism and cuasing diversions. We have lots of them in Britain. --- Rolf Martens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > At 05:20 2001-12-10 -0500, "comrade mart", "Canada", > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, alias Thomas P. Murray, > USA, (only one of some 30 Murray "cyber ghosts" so > far) > wrote: > > >Rolf, you are one of the biggest ad most persistent > TROLLS on the > >the internet. *Nobody* gives a damn what you wrote > in 1996...or at > >any other time, before or since, for that matter. > You are a legend in > >your own mind and the sooner you are banned from > this list, (like > >you have been banned from PTTP and other lists) the > better. > >mart > > > Well, Thomas, you certainly are doing your best to > "give a > name to" what I've called "social-imperialism", > "social-fascism" > and "Quisling 'Marxism'". Confronted with what I'm > pointing > out (again), all you can say is "ban-ban-ban!" in > true Brezhnev > or - more pertinently today - Ashcroft style. Really > a good > "visual demonstration", Murray-"mart"! > > Rolf M. > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9WB2D Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: UNITE! Info #19en: 3/4 Social-imperialism's Afghan war [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- Kindly do not clutter up this antinato list with your cant and hypocrisy. Dick Casey took a keen interest in the whole operation and as he said "Go win it!". You persistently claim these operations never took place. The collaborators and Quislings were those who supported and were paid by the CIA> --- Rolf Martens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > UNITE! Info #19en: 3/4 Social-imperialism's Afghan > war > [Posted: 09.10.96] > > [Continued from part 2/4] > > > CHAPTER 3: CERTAIN "MARXISTS" TODAY ON > EVENTS '79-'89 > > A) *Opposing standpoints* > > On the recent execution of Najibullah, one of those > people in > Afghanistan on whose "political line" even the > Soviet revision- > ist chieftain Kosygin had earlier commented (see > Chapter 2): > "I cannot understand why this question arises...The > question of > sending people who would climb into your tanks and > shoot on your > people. This is a very serious political question.", > I wrote to > the Jefferson Village Virginia Marxism list on 02.10 > i.a.: > > >The islamic "Talibans" who have recently conquered > Kabul in > >Afghanistan, in the unfortunate internal fighting > which has > >followed on the social-imperialists' forced > retreat, are a > >pretty reactionary lot, it seems. But one thing > they did well: > >They hung Nadjibullah, the infamous pro-Soviet > Quisling. > > This stung one other writer to that list into > replying on the > same day, giving his own version of what had taken > place in Af- > ghanistan in 1979-1989: > > >I was frankly sickened by Rolf Martens recent post > celebrating > >the execution, by the new Taliban fundamentalist > regime in > >Kabul, of the former Afghan President, Najibullah. > > >I won't comment here on Mr Martens' assessment of > the histori- > >cal viccissitudes of the past 17 years, other than > to say that > >while the Peoples' Democratic Party of Afghanistan > [PDPA] made > >numerous (and highly visible) errors in their > twelve years of > >rule, their sins were and are dwarfed by the > actions of their > >enemies. > > >As far as Mr Martens' reading of the historical > record itself > >is concerned, well, the less said about that the > better. > > >The governments of the PDPA, it should be > remembered, > >instituted a system of universal education, > literacy, health > >care, and subsidized housing in nearly all of the > 30 provinces > >of the country. They fashioned a labor law that > was the most > >progressive in Asia, admitting workers from both > the public > >and private sectors to specialized secondary and > higher schools > >regardless of nationality, age, sex or other > factors, > >providing for free child care, and raising wages > by an average > >of 26 per cent (with the lowest paid receiving > raises of up to > >50 per cent). They subsidized the distribution > of petrol, > >diesel fuel, kerosene, sugar, wheat flour, and > firewood and > >other staples to such an extent that famine in > areas under > >their control was virtually eliminated. > > >But by far the most important reform instituted by > the > >successive PDPA governments involved land reform. > In the > >three major land reform acts (1978, 1981, 1985), > the effects > >were not confined to a redistribution of land in > favor of the > >poorest peasant families. They gave impetus to > the growing > >cooperative movement and freed the peasants from > the grip of > >landowners and usurers. The same acts provided > for the mass > >education of all in the countryside under the > slogan "Everybody > >at the school desk", and attempted to put an end > to > >discrimination against ethnic minorities, > especially in the > >areas of culture and language. > > >Opposed to this was the mujadaheen--a cancerous > class of > >parasites, the mullahs, the landowners, the > usurers- > >frenziedly feeding on the largesse of the Saudis, > the > Iranians, the Pakistanis >and, of course, the most > loathesome > >entity of all, the Reagan--Casey CIA.And > since this is > >the Marxism list, let us not fail to acknowledge > the SWP, > >the ISO, and others who, while as notably > effective as a wet > >fart in a monsoon as far as doing anything good, > are always > >willing to jump in at imperialism's behest, > increasingly now > >even before being asked. The back of my hand to > all of them. > > >And to you, Mr Martens. > > Reading this posting, you might think there wasn't > any war at > all in Afghanistan during that time - no 1.5 million > people > killed, no 5-6 million refugees, no 7,000 villages > completely > destroyed by the invader through helicopter gunship > bombing, > for instance. > > What that invader's puppet forces did, according to > this writer, > was in the main to "institute a system of universal > education", > "p
Re: UNITE! Info #19en: 1/4 Social-imperialism's Afghan war [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- You are spouting absolute nonsense, and indeed attempting to justify and support US. agressesion, as well as supporting Imperialism. The Russians did not "Invade" them on 7/12/79, in spite of what Jimmy "Human Rights" Carter said at the time since a major Covert Operation had started, under Carter's signature on 3/7/79. Quite clearly the government of that country was entitled to ask for assistance, as did Nicaragua, Angola, Mozambique etc. etc. But in any case was being subjected to an unparralleled Covert Operation in its scale. The country always has had the most enormous strategic significance throughout history and since the days of the "Great Game", and this point must be grasped. Your ASC. and demonstrations were Front-organisations designed to prevent protests/ gain support for the American action. We have encountered similar organisations in Britian supporting all aspects of the attack on jugoslavia, all the way through to the attack on Macedonia, which incidentally was carried out by the same islamic fundamentalist paramilitaries used against Afghanistan. You are in fact openly supporting the policies and actionds of the US. and of Imperialism --- Rolf Martens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > UNITE! Info #19en: 1/4 Social-imperialism's Afghan > war > [Posted: 09.10.96] > > Note / Anmerkung / Note / Nota / Anmaerkning: > On the UNITE! / VEREINIGT EUCH! / UNISSEZ-VOUS! / > !UNIOS! / > FOERENA ER! Info en/de/fr/es/se series: > See information on the last page / Siehe Information > auf der > letzten Seite / Verrez information a* la dernie*re > page / Ver > informacio'n en la u'ltima pa'gina / Se information > paa sista > sidan. > > > INTRO NOTE: > > Two recent "UNITE! Info" items, #16en and #17en, of > 04.10.96 and > 05.10.96 respectively, have been dealing indirectly > and in part > also directly with the question of the aggression by > Soviet so- > cial-imperialism (which today no longer is in > existence as such) > against a third-world country, Afghanistan, in > 1979-1989. This > item too, and now more or less wholly, will be > dedicated to the > same theme. Why? Why do I hold this question to be > such a rela- > tively important one? > > The social-imperialists' overt aggression in > Afghanistan in '79- > '89 today is already history. But it's still > something which > shows up with quite extraordinary clarity the sharp > difference > between Marxism, on the one hand, and revisionism, > on the other. > And the phenomenon of revisionism, that's one of the > most impor- > tant political phenomena of all in our century. > > What is revisionism? It's Marxism, socialism, > proletarian poli- > tics in *words* but bourgeois politics, even > imperialism, in > *deeds*. A discussion on this phenomenon and its > root causes > follows in one of the chapters below. > > The openly bourgeois media, in the Western > countries, for in- > stance, of course never use the word "revisionism", > at least not > in this important political sense. To them, > everybody *is* a > "Communist" who has proclaimed him/her/self to be > one, and the > same goes for parties - indeed, such revisionist > parties as no > longer even find it tactically wise even to try to > pose as > "Communist" still continue to be called so by the > openly bour- > geois media. This of course is done in order to make > it more > difficult for the masses of people to distinguish > between actual > Communism on the one hand and revisionism on the > other, and to > disredit the very idea of Communism. For Marxists, > naturally > it's vital to draw a sharp dividing line between the > genuine and > the faked (notwithstanding the fact that it > sometimes may be > difficult to see which is which) and to enlighten > everybody on > this. > > An infamous example of a state ruled by revisionists > is the Chi- > na of today, which, as all (who know some elementary > facts of > history) can see, is completely different from the > earlier, so- > cialist China which was guided by Mao Zedong's > genuinely Marxist > political line. An even more infamous example of > such a state > was the Soviet Union of yesterday (from > approximately the mid- > 50:s until 1991). > > The aggression of that state against Afghanistan > exposed to the > whole world, even more clearly than its earlier > crimes, the true > character of it, and importantly contributed to its > eventual > downfall. > > Just as the US war of aggression in Vietnam, Laos > and Cambodia > in the late '60:s and early '70:s very clearly and > to the whole > world exposed the true character of US imperialism, > and that of > its hackneyed supporters too, so did the Afghan war > of the So- > viet Union expose the true character of *that* state > and of > *its* hackneyed supporters. > > This was so, despite the fact that in both of those > cases of > superpower aggression there
Re: 10 years on: Capitalism brings ruin to Russia - no, 40 years [WWW.STOPN
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK
---
"Woe to those who read good for evil and evil for good
Woe to those who call light darkness and darkness
light"
Isaiah 5, v.7
It is you who are being ridiculous, apart from your
arrogance.
There was no "war of Social-Imperialist aggression",
that aggression was created in Washington.
Yes the Americans did covertly invade Afghanistan in
1979, with the specific intention of provoking Soviet
intervention, apparantly as "revenge" for Vietnam, a
major preoccupation by US. policy-makers at the time.
The horse's mouth says so.
Z.B. has bragged and boasted about this in interviews
and his book.
"No I've no regrets, it was a real smart thing to do"
$40 billion dollars is an aweful lot of bread and
clearly they expected big dividends for that kind of
money.
This is important as an tailor-made Islamic
fundamentalist movement was created by them by them
for this purposes, by since has revolted agianst it's
master with devestating consequences.
--- Rolf Martens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK
> ---
>
> At 11:28 2001-12-09 -0800, Richard Roper
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >Well I don't know why you are a member of this
> list.
>
> It's because I'm against the NATO and its actions,
> of course.
>
> You comment seems strange. It's probably caused by
> my saying I was and am against the former social-
> perialism in the Soviet Union and the present-day
> continued new tsarism in Russia too, together with
> your actually believing that ridiculous bullshit by
> the
> Washington Pest, the NY Slimes, Cee No Nothing,
> etc etc, that the Soviet Union (from the 60s on,
> say)
> represented "communism" and that what was going
> on in the world was a struggle between that "commu-
> nism", on the one hand, and the ("traditional") im-
> perialism, as represented by the USA and the NATO,
> on the other - that "if you're not in favour of one
> of
> these, then you're for the other".
>
> But that was and is a very wrong picture of things,
> you know. The people in the world had and have
> very good reason to be strongly against both of
> these reactionary forces. They should say "a plague
> on both your houses", and that's what most of them
> are doing too.
>
> "Those who're not with us [the US imperialists]
> are with the terrorists", Bush is saying today -
> all the more ridiculously of course, since they
> themselves precisely *are* the terrorists too.
>
> And there are some other people too who're
> saying: "If you oppose the US war against
> Afghanista, then you're an adherent of Usama
> bin Laden". Heard that one, Richard?
>
> Well, 20 or so years ago, those same people
> (or their predecessors) were saying, "if you
> oppose us, then you're with the Soviet Union".
> Equally ridiculous, of course. Then as now,
> this was a trick of trying to put people between
> to fires: "cholera or pest - choose what's best".
> That one always was one quite important
> "strategy" of the reactionaries', against ordinary
> people.
>
> >As it happens I am not a communist.
>
> I never accused you of being one either.
>
> Now that Washington Pest etc etc will tell you
> that "communists", that's people who supported
> that (really arch-reactionary) social-imperialism
> of the leaders of the Soviet Union, that it was
> "communism" that fell in East Europe in 1989-91,
> etc. Not true, I can inform you. This nonsense
> is intended to confuse people completely as to
> what has been, and is, going on in the world too.
>
> All actual communists know that what Mao Zedong
> said, as far back as in 1964, about the Soviet Union
> is quite true: That the earlier socialism there had
> been
> overthrown and replaced by a bourgeois dictatorship
> of the fascist type, of the Hitler fascist type. The
> adherents of that regime rightly were and are called
> revisionists, by the actual Marxists.
>
>
> >Well yes, it was Carter and Brisinki who invaded
> >Afganistan in July 1979 - it's just they did it in
> a
> >Covert Operation - caused five million to flee,
> >devestated large parts of the country, built up a
> huge
> >para-miltary force etc. etc. This is the fairly
> >standard description of a country subjected to a
> >protracted Covert Intervention.
> >
> >It was the largest operation of the CIA since
> Vietnam,
> >millions of dollars were spent on it, and
>
Re: 10 years on: Capitalism brings ruin to Russia - no, 40 years [WWW.STOPNAT
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK
---
Well I don't know why you are a member of this list.
As it happens I am not a communist.
Well yes, it was Carter and Brisinki who invaded
Afganistan in July 1979 - it's just they did it in a
Covert Operation - caused five million to flee,
devestated large parts of the country, built up a huge
para-miltary force etc. etc. This is the fairly
standard description of a country subjected to a
protracted Covert Intervention.
It was the largest operation of the CIA since Vietnam,
millions of dollars were spent on it, and
unparralleled propaganda operations took place in its
support.
The Soviet mistake was to try to fight a conventional
war themselves, but this, and the intervention itself,
had been the US. intention to provke.
See the horse's mouth, Brisinski admits it, Quote "
but surely you have some regrets...", "No, it was a
real smart idea!".
It is imperative that this is realised today and there
are no distractions from "Right-Leftists" who are in
fact doing the dirty work of imperialism.
--- Rolf Martens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK
> -----------
>
> At 03:27 2001-12-08 -0800, Richard Roper wrote:
>
> >---
> >
> >It's of crucial importance at this time to realise
> >what happened in Afghanistan for obvious reasons.
> >
> >I am amazed by this type of comment on this site.
> >
> >Jimmy Carter signed for large scale Covert
> Operations
> >against Afghanistan on 3rd July 1979, six months
> >before the intervention. This is all from the
> horse's
> >mouth - Zbigniew Brisinski - who also wrote Carter
> a
> >note on the same day saying it would produce Soviet
> >inteventionism.
> >
> >We should also be aware of Krushchev's -
> essentially
> >he was trying to do a deal economically with
> America -
> >but this is far being "socio-imperialism".
>
>
> So of course it was *Carter and Brezinski* (US)
> who invaded Afghanistan in 1979, eventually had
> 100,000+ troops there, devastated large parts
> of the country, forced some 5 millions to flee,
> etc, etc, and "not" the Soviet social-imperialists!
> Their scumbag oh-so-"communist" "friends", who
> kept applauding this "brotherly help" had nothing
> to do with this either, huh? Not one bit better than
> the US ("traditionally"-)imperialist murderers are
> those people; this it's imperative that everyone
> sees today too.
>
> Rolf M.
>
>
>
__
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Re: 10 years on: Capitalism brings ruin to Russia - no, 40 years [WWW.STOPNATO
HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK --- It's of crucial importance at this time to realise what happened in Afghanistan for obvious reasons. I am amazed by this type of comment on this site. Jimmy Carter signed for large scale Covert Operations against Afghanistan on 3rd July 1979, six months before the intervention. This is all from the horse's mouth - Zbigniew Brisinski - who also wrote Carter a note on the same day saying it would produce Soviet inteventionism. We should also be aware of Krushchev's - essentially he was trying to do a deal economically with America - but this is far being "socio-imperialism". --- Rolf Martens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --- > > At 06:58 2001-12-06 -0500, Barry Stoller > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > >AFP. 5 December 2001. Russia's dashed hopes. > > > >MOSCOW -- At a glance Russia has made remarkable > progress in the 10 > >years since the Soviet Union officially ceased to > exist... > > > Your subject line should have been "40 years on...", > Barry! > The former socialism in the Soviet Union was not > overthrown > in 1991, of course, but in the late 50s / early 60s, > and > social-imperialism, one kind of that impossible > capitalism too, > established there. This it's important to see, in > order fully to > understand the causes of the present disaster. One > of them > was that typically imperialist war against > Afghanistan, for > instance, 1979-1989. > > One very good article on that overthrow is the > Chinese one > from 1964: "On Khrushchov's Phoney Communism and Its > Historical Lessons for the World". It can be found > on David > Romagnolo's excellent site "Marx to Mao" at > www.marx2mao.org. > > Also for other reasons it's important today to see > the difference > between actual and phony socialism. > > Rolf M. > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9WB2D Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: PLEASE SIGN THIS CALL AND SEND TO IAC ASAP [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK - I wish to sign this, please add my name, Richard Roper England --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > Dear Friend of peace and foe of injustice. > > The International Action Center is putting out this > call, and would like all > people of conscience who agree with it to sign it > immediately. Please do so > if you can. We are calling for an international and > overwhelming response as > an answer to the war frenzy and vicious xenophobia > sweeping the U.S. since > the terrible events of September 11. Please join us. > Thank you, > Heather Cottin (for the IAC) > > A Call to Join a New Anti-War Coalition: > International A.N.S.W.E.R. > (Act Now to Stop War & End Racism) > > Please join us in signing this call: > > Our most heartfelt sympathies and condolences are > with all > those whose loved ones were lost or injured on > September 11, > 2001. At this moment, we would all like to take time > to > reflect, to grieve, to extend sympathy and > condolences to > all. But we believe that we must do more. We must > act now. > We are assembling International A.N.S.W.E.R. to call > for > worldwide rallies against war and racism. On > September 29, > there will be a national march and rally at the > White House > in Washington DC, as well as marches on the West > Coast of > the U.S. and around the world. We call on all > people of > conscience and progressive organizations to take up > this > call and organize rallies around the world. > We join with people all over the world who condemn > the > horrific killings of thousands of innocent civilians > on > Sept. 11th . But unless we stop President Bush and > NATO from > carrying out a new, wider war in the Middle East, > the number > of innocent victims will grow from the thousands to > the tens > of thousands and possibly more. A new, wider U.S. > and NATO > war in the Middle East can only lead to an > escalating cycle > of violence. War is not the answer. > We must also act against racism. Arab American and > Muslim > people in the United States, in Europe and > elsewhere, as > well as other communities of color, are facing > racist > attacks and harassment in their communities, on > their jobs > and at mosques. Anti-Arab and anti-Muslim racism is > a poison > that should be repudiated. > The U.S. government is attempting to curb civil > liberties > and to create a climate in which it is impossible > for > progressive people to speak their mind. The Bush > administration is attempting to take advantage of > this > crisis to militarize U.S. society with a vast > expansion of > police powers that is intended to severely restrict > basic > democratic rights. > On September 29, tens of thousands of people had > planned to > demonstrate against the Bush administration's > reactionary > foreign and domestic policy and the IMF and World > Bank. In > light of the current crisis, with its tragic > consequences > for so many thousands of people, we have refocused > the call > for our demonstration to address the immediate > danger posed > by increased racism and the grave threat of a new > war. We > call on people to demonstrate around the world on > that day. > Now is the time for all people of conscience, all > people who > oppose racism and war to come together. If you > believe in > civil liberties and oppose racism and war, > demonstrate on > September 29 in front of the White House and around > the > world. October 12-13 will be International Days of > Action > Against War and Racism. We urge all organizations > internationally to join together at this critical > time and > take action. > > Initial Signers: > Ramsey Clark, former U.S. Attorney General > Bishop Thomas Gumbleton, Auxiliary Bishop, Catholic > Archdiocese of Detroit > Samia Halaby, Al-Awda Palestine Right of Return > Coalition > Barbara Lubin, Exec. Director, Middle East > Children’s > Alliance > Rev. Lucius Walker, Pastors for Peace > Teresa Gutierrez, Co-Director, International Action > Center > Nania Kaur Dhingra, Sikh Student Organization, > George > Washington University > Michele Naar-Obed, Plowshares activist, Jonah House, > Baltimore > Pam Africa, International Family & Friends of Mumia > Abu-Jamal > Nino Pasti Foundation, Rome, Italy > Chuck Kaufman, National Co-Coordinator, Nicaragua > Network > Heidi Boghosian, Executive Director, National > Lawyers Guild > Tom Hanso
Re: Twin Towers, by Andrej Tisma (www.tisma.net) [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK - Because the Towers were of unconventional steel construction - grave doubts have been expressed over the years, but always splatted. The outer steel curtain wal and the central pylon held up what was essentially a concrete slab floor. If the supports at the edges go, the slab will fall. When this happens the top of the building becomes a pilegriver failing onto each floor in term, imploding the building. Steel becomes plastic and distorts at 800%, basically they had about an hour once the fire stated. --- Party of Citizens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > Can anyone explain how a tower hit at the corner > would fall 1-2 hours > later in a perfect demolition manner (straight > down)? How would the > aircraft fuel manage to get distributed so > consistently all over that > layer of the building so as to weaken all of the > vertical red iron to > the same degree at the same time? Why didn't it > collapse "lop-sided"? If > this method works so well, all future > construction-demolition projects > should emulate it. > POC > > - > This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old > stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down > > > __ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ - This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down ==^ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9spWA Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: archive@jab.org T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: The BBC are never getting a penny off me again [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK - Two thing, and I think the lady was treated despicably,;- Osborne House. This, whilst its existence is kept very low key, sets the parameters of BBC. reporting on any given subject. So much for independence and impartiality. Master Sebastian specialises in being the hatchetman interviewer for the BBC. and the British Establishment, including repeating emotive phrases again and again. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > Dear Lee, > > two comments: > > #1) LOL > #2) does the BBC website have transcripts of this > interview or a link to a > RealPlayer file with audio/visuals of the "hardtalk" > > cheers! > Kole > > In a message dated 10/09/01 19:02:08 Eastern > Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > Pasted below is the email i just sent the BBC > following a shameless > > half-hour tv assault (not interview) on Mira > Markovic (Milosevic's wife) a > > woman who obviously has enough to deal with. The > only enjoyable part about > > it (for those of you who did not have the > opportunity to view it) was the > > way Mira stood up for herself at the end telling > off Tim Sebastian for > being > > > > "unchivalrous" and "the rudest man (she has) ever > encountered". > > > > > > >Your hardtalk tonight with Tim Sebastian and > Mira Markovic was the most > > >shockingly rude, ill-informed, racist bullshit I > have EVER seen in this > > >country's televisual history save for the > appalling fabrications > concerning > > > > >conflicts in the Balkans. Mira was made to be > seen subhuman with the > > >ignorant Mr Sebastian constantly repeating the > phrase "trail of blood" > and > > >other such emotive crap. It's amazing - > everything Mira argued is backed > up > > > > >in history and anybody who can be bothered to > read into these matters > will > > >find this to be the case (i.e. the west being > the cause of the bloodshed > in > > > > >Yugoslavia) and yet his questions served only to > portray a Lady Macbeth > > >style villain and he refused to accept any of > what she said, her denials > > >seeming only to prove her lack of humanity. I > have never been so ashamed > to > > > > >be British and your organisation's racist hatred > towards Serbs for me > makes > > > > >you no better than nazis. The Serbian RTS > building was destroyed with 17 > > >murdered because it was a “propaganda” tool, > inciting hatred. What the > hell > > > > >does that make you? Your organisation is sick > and is not worth shitting > on. > > > > - > This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old > stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com - This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down ==^ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9spWA Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: archive@jab.org T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: War is a Racket! Germany/USA: Original Sin - From SS to OSS [WWW.STOPNATO...
Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK - Remember that had FDR not been elected in 1932 and instituted his modest New Deal measures, then the US> economy would have collapsed in the winter 0f 1933-34 and there would have been revolution. So it'd hardly surprising that multimillionaires, Wall St. financiers etc. should start thinking of a coup, particularly those who quite admired Adolf Hitler. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > In a message dated 11/09/01 09:31:22 Eastern > Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > writes: > > > > > one of the > > most interesting > > bits of US history>>> > > > > WOW -- that's news to me. Please, tell me more... > > > > thanks, > > David O Q > > > > > Tell us all more. Sounds really fascinating... > > cheers! > > Kole > > - > This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old > stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com - This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down ==^ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9spWA Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: archive@jab.org T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: The BBC are never getting a penny off me again [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK - Mr.Sebastian specialises in this technique with people regarded as political enemies of British foreign policy, and i have seen him do it before. Of course, he coos leading questions to those who are not! --- Lee Mager <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > Pasted below is the email i just sent the BBC > following a shameless > half-hour tv assault (not interview) on Mira > Markovic (Milosevic's wife) a > woman who obviously has enough to deal with. The > only enjoyable part about > it (for those of you who did not have the > opportunity to view it) was the > way Mira stood up for herself at the end telling off > Tim Sebastian for being > "unchivalrous" and "the rudest man (she has) ever > encountered". > > > >Your hardtalk tonight with Tim Sebastian and Mira > Markovic was the most > >shockingly rude, ill-informed, racist bullshit I > have EVER seen in this > >country's televisual history save for the appalling > fabrications concerning > >conflicts in the Balkans. Mira was made to be seen > subhuman with the > >ignorant Mr Sebastian constantly repeating the > phrase "trail of blood" and > >other such emotive crap. It's amazing - everything > Mira argued is backed up > >in history and anybody who can be bothered to read > into these matters will > >find this to be the case (i.e. the west being the > cause of the bloodshed in > >Yugoslavia) and yet his questions served only to > portray a Lady Macbeth > >style villain and he refused to accept any of what > she said, her denials > >seeming only to prove her lack of humanity. I have > never been so ashamed to > >be British and your organisation's racist hatred > towards Serbs for me makes > >you no better than nazis. The Serbian RTS building > was destroyed with 17 > >murdered because it was a propaganda tool, > inciting hatred. What the hell > >does that make you? Your organisation is sick and > is not worth shitting on. > > _ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > - > This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old > stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com - This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down ==^ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9spWA Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: archive@jab.org T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: Novi Sad's Lennon Street... [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK - It's ptretty outrageous when one considers the American establishment almost certainly gunned the guy down to prevent him taking up political work. --- Jim Yarker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > When I read Kosta's great reflections I thought > about how Russia stopped > issuing postage stamps picturing Nelson Mandela > after the Yeltsin takeover. > (I don't know what took their place - perhaps a > series of Sammy Davis Jr. > commemoratives?) and also, of course, Havel's claim > of being "influenced," > or whatever, by John Lennon. > > -Original Message- > From: Richard Roper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 2:14 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Novi Sad's Lennon Street... > [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] > > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > More important, what would John Lennon have thought > of > this? > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > > - > > > > [Not that I have anything against John Lennon, but > I > > have a problem with the > > DOS authorities of Novi Sad inviting Yoko Ono to > > comemorate a street in > > Lennon's name after she organized an "Albanian > > refugee benefit concert" in > > New York, when the CNN spotlights were firmly > > embedded on the region every > > single day and NATO's planes were obliterating > > Serbian cities, but probably > > doesn't even know or care about the plight of > > Serbian refugees over the past > > ten years. Note, Ono didn't stage a "Peace > Concert" > > or an "End the War > > Concert", but an "Albanian refugee benefit > concert" > > thus clearly taking NO > > POSITION on NATO's brutal aggression. > > Furthermore, I think that wiping the name of a > > Serbian leftist, who > > fought in the Spanish civil war, off of Novi Sad's > > city map, when hundreds of > > other streets could have been chosen instead to > name > > after Lennon, further > > illustrates the callous disregard of the DOS > > authorities to Yugoslavia' s > > long 20th century tradition of resistance to > fascism > > and acts of > > internationalist solidarity with other progressive > > forces around the world > > (this follows Kostunica's elimination of > > Anti-Fascist Resistance Day as > > well!!!). > > This is yet another small symptom of the DOS > > authorities attempts to > > reprogram Yugoslav and especially Serbian society > > into the codes of 21st > > century colonialism, rewire it into the > "high-speed" > > lanes of today's new > > servility and repackage it as yet another > commodity > > for the global market - > > an "investor friendly" place, full of "hip" > > pro-Western NGO-types who tell > > great jokes about the backwardness of their own > > people, who are apparently so > > ignorant that they "only know about Novi Sad, > well, > > Belgrade at the most", > > while for their part the new, more cosmopolitan > > Serbs - who btw raise their > > daughters "in the spirit of rock and roll, to give > > [them] a wider perception > > of the world" - fawn over individuals that are so > > unlike stale, old, and > > useless, Spanish Civil war resistance fighters and > > have actually really "left > > a mark on the world's cultural heritage" in a "new > > trend of honouring > > worldwide cultural icons in [Yugoslavia]". > > Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against > John > > Lennon (once again), its > > just that the context in which this particular > > commemoration is occuring in > > and the way it's being covered by the BBC are a > very > > interesting example of > > the way neoliberal, and especially Blair/Gidden's > > cuastic brand of "Third > > Way" propaganda appropriates what are considered > > counter-cultural trends to > > its own very establishmentarian positions. > Nothing > > new of course, but just > > something to definately pause and to mull over for > a > > second...] > > > > Fri
Re: Novi Sad's Lennon Street... [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK - More important, what would John Lennon have thought of this? --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > [Not that I have anything against John Lennon, but I > have a problem with the > DOS authorities of Novi Sad inviting Yoko Ono to > comemorate a street in > Lennon's name after she organized an "Albanian > refugee benefit concert" in > New York, when the CNN spotlights were firmly > embedded on the region every > single day and NATO's planes were obliterating > Serbian cities, but probably > doesn't even know or care about the plight of > Serbian refugees over the past > ten years. Note, Ono didn't stage a "Peace Concert" > or an "End the War > Concert", but an "Albanian refugee benefit concert" > thus clearly taking NO > POSITION on NATO's brutal aggression. > Furthermore, I think that wiping the name of a > Serbian leftist, who > fought in the Spanish civil war, off of Novi Sad's > city map, when hundreds of > other streets could have been chosen instead to name > after Lennon, further > illustrates the callous disregard of the DOS > authorities to Yugoslavia' s > long 20th century tradition of resistance to fascism > and acts of > internationalist solidarity with other progressive > forces around the world > (this follows Kostunica's elimination of > Anti-Fascist Resistance Day as > well!!!). > This is yet another small symptom of the DOS > authorities attempts to > reprogram Yugoslav and especially Serbian society > into the codes of 21st > century colonialism, rewire it into the "high-speed" > lanes of today's new > servility and repackage it as yet another commodity > for the global market - > an "investor friendly" place, full of "hip" > pro-Western NGO-types who tell > great jokes about the backwardness of their own > people, who are apparently so > ignorant that they "only know about Novi Sad, well, > Belgrade at the most", > while for their part the new, more cosmopolitan > Serbs - who btw raise their > daughters "in the spirit of rock and roll, to give > [them] a wider perception > of the world" - fawn over individuals that are so > unlike stale, old, and > useless, Spanish Civil war resistance fighters and > have actually really "left > a mark on the world's cultural heritage" in a "new > trend of honouring > worldwide cultural icons in [Yugoslavia]". > Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against John > Lennon (once again), its > just that the context in which this particular > commemoration is occuring in > and the way it's being covered by the BBC are a very > interesting example of > the way neoliberal, and especially Blair/Gidden's > cuastic brand of "Third > Way" propaganda appropriates what are considered > counter-cultural trends to > its own very establishmentarian positions. Nothing > new of course, but just > something to definately pause and to mull over for a > second...] > > Friday, 7 September, 2001, 17:22 GMT 18:22 UK > Lennon Street planned for Serbian city > > Lennon: Seen as symbol of peace and freedom > > John Lennon is to have a street in Yugoslavia's > second city, Novi Sad, named > after him as part of a new trend of honouring > worldwide cultural icons in the > country. > The former Beatle's name will replace that of a Serb > who took part in the > Spanish civil war in the 1930s. > > There is a growing fashion in Yugoslavia for naming > roads after artists and > sportsmen, rather than following the tradition of > honouring prominent > politicians. > > "We decided to name this street after a man who left > an important mark in the > world's cultural heritage," said Vladimir Vrgovic, > the president of the > commission that made the decision. > > Spirit > > "We have printed out the board with John Lennon's > name and we have decided to > invite his widow Yoko Ono and son Julian to attend > the opening ceremony." > > Yoko Ono recently opened the renamed John Lennon > Airport > > The idea to name the road after the musician, who > was murdered in 1980, came > from Vrgovic's daughter. > > She first came up with the idea in 1998, he said. > > "I raised my daughter Milena in the spirit of rock > and roll, to give her a > wider perception of the world, unlike many of her > peers who only know about > Novi Sad, well, Belgrade at the most." > > Peace > > The star has already had a street named after him in > Russian town of > Chelyabinsk, and Liverpool's airport was recently > renamed John Lennon > Airport. > > The star's image is also a symbol for peace and > freedom at Prague's Lennon > Wall, which was originally a makeshift billboard for > dissidents during the > communist era. > > Meanwhile, in London, fans have been given the > opportunity to see 150 of > Lennon's paintings and sketches, includin
Re: 30 days [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK - Yup! It's the Black Stuff, the Texas Tea, shipped out of Valona in super-supertankers to the US. of A. This means the area and Greater Albania have the most enormous strategic significance. The US. NSE. MUST have control of those ultra-strategic oil supplies as everywhere else runs out. --- apliedms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > It is all about oil after all. And oil to the US, > not Europe > (Vlore-Rotherdam-US). > > The NATO's map of the Balkans is shaping up more and > more > like the Axis' (Germany and Italy) map during WW2. > > Kosovo, Northern and Western Macedonia will be given > to > Albania/KLA in return for protecting their half of > the pipeline. > The reminder of Macedonia will be given to Bulgaria > for a > similar deal. > > Will Greece get anything? Not likely, but a little > present > around Southern Macedonian lakes is not completely > out > of the question. > > NLA/KLA has taken over the control of Northern > Macedonia, > which is, obviosly, on the chosen route for the AMBO > pipeline. > That was NATO plan from the start of the "Macedonia > crisis", > achieved through ethnic cleansing of the Macedonian > population > from this area. > > "Macedonian Slavs" are obviously not to be trusted > with > American oil, like their Serbian religious and > ethnic relatives. > > Bulgarians (although Slavs) have cooperated very > well with Nazi > Germany during WW2 so they, obviosly, can be > trusted. > Albanians were amongst the most trustworthy German > allies > during WW2, so they are implicitly trusted by the > US. > > The 6th Fleet will safeguard the Mediterranian oil > tanker route. > > That is it. Simple. > > - > This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old > stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com - This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down ==^ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9spWA Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: archive@jab.org T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: Peculiarly, all -or most- of them are funded by Soros... [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.U
Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK - Well, well, well, SURPRISE! Soi now we know where these organisations really stand, RR. --- Francisco Javier Bernal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > "...On top of all the troubles of the NGO Forum, at > the closing ceremony, > the delegates had to listen for over two hours to a > speech by Fidel Castro. > We are offended by the fact that one of the worst > dictators in the > contemporary world, particularly notorious for gross > violations of human > rights, was invited to address this world gathering > of non-governmental > organizations. Listening to Fidel speak, we only had > to wonder why the > organizers had failed to invite Alexander > Lukashenko, Turkmenbashi, Saddam > Hussein, or the Taliban regime" > > > - > > Joint Statement by Eastern and Central Europe NGO > Caucus and other NGOs > September 3, 2001 (Durban, South Africa) > > We, WCAR NGO Forum delegates of more than 50 > non-governmental organizations > from more than 20 countries of Eastern and Central > Europe and the former > Soviet Union and other countries of the world, state > that we do not support > the documents allegedly adopted by the NGO Forum and > come forth with a > forward-looking positive proposal. > > First and foremost, we declare that the process of > compilation and adoption > of the NGO Forum Declaration and Program of Action > was neither transparent > nor democratic and permeated with procedural > violations. The draft > documents were not submitted to the delegates in a > timely manner; the rules > of procedure were unclear and repeatedly changed; > the discussion was > heavily restricted. Finally, the delegates were not > given an opportunity to > vote on the draft documents in their entirety. This > enables us to affirm > that the documents cannot be considered adopted by > the NGO Forum and are > not consensus documents. > > We believe that as a result of this flawed process, > the contents of the > documents include unacceptable concepts and > language. We are particularly > concerned with certain ideas included in the > chapters "Globalization," > "Palestine," "Reparations," and a number of > paragraphs of the documents. > > We must emphasize that the language of the chapter > "Palestine" as well as > the deliberate distortions made to the chapter > "Anti-Semitism," is > extremely intolerant, disrespectful and contrary to > the very spirit of the > World Conference Against Racism, Racial > Discrimination, Xenophobia and > Related Intolerance. > > Nevertheless, despite the negative results of the > NGO Forum, we strongly > believe that the international NGO community should > not give up but > continue to work on the basis of the positive > aspects of the entire > preparatory process to the World Conference and the > Forum itself. In > particular, the following achievements represent a > sound foundation for > future consolidated efforts: reinforcement of the > available international > legal mechanisms of protection against racism and > discrimination; > development of national anti-discrimination > legislation and institutions; > creation of national plans of action; recognition of > the slave-trade as a > crime against humanity; acknowledgement of the > scourges of colonialism; > inclusion on the agenda of such issues as denial of > racism; double > discrimination; religious intolerance; state racism; > ethnic cleansing; > racism not rooted in the slave-trade; sexual > orientation; migrants and > internally displaced persons; indigenous peoples; > and specific groups of > victims such as Roma, Chechens, Tibetans, and > Dalits. > > We intend to immediately move on to implementation > of the above > achievements and call upon the international NGO > community to join us in > these efforts. > > * * * * * > > PS: On top of all the troubles of the NGO Forum, at > the closing ceremony, > the delegates had to listen for over two hours to a > speech by Fidel Castro. > We are offended by the fact that one of the worst > dictators in the > contemporary world, particularly notorious for gross > violations of human > rights, was invited to address this world gathering > of non-governmental > organizations. Listening to Fidel speak, we only had > to wonder why the > organizers had failed to invite Alexander > Lukashenko, Turkmenbashi, Saddam > Hussein, or the Taliban regime. > > For information, contact Yuri Dzhibladze at > 082-379-5768 until September 8, > and thereafter at +7-095-203-9196 and > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > The statement was adopted by 36 NGOs from 19 > countries of Eastern and > Central Europe at their Caucus meeting on September > 2, 2001. At the request > by NGOs from countries outside of the region of > Eastern and Central Europe
Re: JUSTIN RAIMONDO: WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON IN MACEDONIA? [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK
Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK - They don't intend to, there's going to be nothing WILLING about it, they intend to repeatedly infiltrate until the take-over's complete and getting repeated concessions from those in authority. It was a called APPEASEMENT at one time, RR. --- John Jay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > Right! > Although maybe nuclear-tipped NATO bombs from 15,000 > feet > up, might just do it...! > > John Jay > > -- > From: Miroslav Antic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: NSP <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, NATO > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > Siem-News <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, SNN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: SIN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: JUSTIN RAIMONDO: WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON IN > MACEDONIA? [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] > Date: Wed, Sep 5, 2001, 12:01 am > > > But all the benevolent smiles in the world, plus all > the > newspaper ads money can buy, are not enough to > convince an > occupied people to willingly give up their > sovereignty. > > JUSTIN RAIMONDO > > - > This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old > stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com - This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down ==^ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9spWA Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: archive@jab.org T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: Why Russia Didn't Veto the ICTY [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK - I'd missed that. For him to lay a wreath on Mannerheim's grave is almost unbelievable, RR. --- Rick Rozoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > Dear Jacques, > I agree with you on every point you > make. > There may some wisdom at the moment in focusing our > attention on the Western/NATO policy makers who are > creating and exacerbating conflicts around the > world, > but we can't afford to forget the betrayal of the > Yeltsin clique, which the Putin government seems to > be > continuing, of not only Yugoslavia, but Russia > itself > as well as other peoples and regions. > Just yesterday Vladimir Putin laid a wreath on the > grave of Mannerheim in Finland, Hitler's ally in > World > War II in the invasion of the then USSR. > A distinction should always be made, as you've done, > between Russia as a nation and the Russians as a > people - who have consistently demonstrated > solidarity > with the people of Yugoslavia and the Balkans in > general and firm opposition to NATO expansion and > aggression, and whichever particular person (lately > with Western bribes and 'election assistance') is > head > of state. > Leaders come and go, mass sentiment lasts. > Defending Yugoslavia in 1999 - with all means at its > disposal - was the best way of Russia also defending > itself. Those who abandoned Yugoslavia then are > complicit in the drive of NATO to encircle Russia. > I trust the Russian people to know how to deal with > such behavior. > > > --- Jacques Protic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > > - > > > > K, Many of us have been lead to accept the > > explanation as you have outlined, > > having said this I feel this is a feeble excuse on > > the part of Russians to > > justify their inactions. (the fact is that the > > overwhelming majority of > > Russian popular opinion and certainly amongst > armed > > forces has always been > > and still is very pro - Yugoslav). Unfortunately > for > > Yugoslavia, I believe > > the behind the scenes politics between the two > > (Moscow / Washington), has > > resulted in my opinion in the Russian fudge which > > deserted Yugoslavia (not > > Milosevic) at the perhaps most crucial point in > > their history. Even our > > Chinese friends who purport to be Yugoslav friends > > have chosen to remain > > neutral by abstaining from key UN votes. Jacques > PS > > - I would like to know, > > why the state of the art Russian anti - aircraft > > weapons have not been > > provided prior and during the bombing (sorry I > must > > have forgot the UN > > embargo that Russians have supported)! What > happened > > to the Russian > > satellite and other forms of intelligence when > > Croatia attacked Slavoinia > > with massive US logistic and other support > > particularly after the US have > > downgraded Bosnian - Serb military communications! > > by pre-emptive and timely > > bombing If I was cynical I would assume > Russians > > have been bought of and > > ignoring the public posturing on Star wars etc we > > may even see Russia as a > > full NATO member, sooner than later! Finally, > > Yeltsin is history, look out > > for Putin deeds on the same issues. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Monday September 03 2001 18:04 > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: Why Russia Didn't Veto the ICTY > > [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] > > > > > > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > > - > > > > Dear Party of Citizens, > > > > the Russian position in the Balkans is complex, > but > > was definately colored > > by animosity between the Yeltsin clan and > Milosevic, > > b/c this last one > > suported the "hardliner coup" in late August 1991 > > and also supported the > > forces of the parliament during the October 1993 > > standoff where Yeltsin > > order tanks to supress Russian communists and > > nationalists who were opposing > > his policies. Russia failed to use its veto on a > > number of key occasions > > especially during the Bosnian war. > > > > cheers! > > > > Kole > > > > - > > This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old > > stopnato @listbot.com that > > has been shut down > > > > > > - > > This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old > > stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant > messaging with Yahoo! Messenger > http://im.yahoo.com > > - > This Discussion List is the fo
RE: SCHRECKLICHKEIT [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK - Sorry to keep coming back. My only disagreement with the article is that British reporters didn't actually invent the Boer war atrocity stories of their own accord - they were carefully cued by the Colonial Office. Lord Milner, the instigator of the war and connected to the Liberal Party, knew quite well the opposition to the whole thing in the Liberal Party back home. It's an incredible article for June 1999, which i had missed, RR. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > Richard, > > "Refined" is a good way to put it, lest we overlook > the British media's > considerable achievements in mendacity during the > Boer War, mentioned by > Phillip Knightley in "Propaganda Wars." > (http://mujweb.atlas.cz/www/kutija/phknight.htm) > > jy > > > -Original Message- > From: Richard Roper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 5:20 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: SCHRECKLICHKEIT [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] > > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > Just three comments;- > > The British invented, or rather refined Atrocity > propaganda in Aug. 1914, the Belgium Atrocity > Stories > being classics of the genre. > > Northcliffe had formed his Political Warfare > Department ( pyschological warefare) for just such > at > task. > It was crucial in order to get british public > opinion > to accept the war. People don't realise Britain very > nearly remaining neutral and the Liberal Party, > (Liberal government at time) essentially being > Isolationist > Also to get America into the war. > Incidently Big Bertha was not built until two years > later, and the story was they burnt down the Louvain > medieval library. > > There are the gravest grounds to suspect the > American > bombing of Belgrade in April 1944, to get rid of > Partisan prisoners held by the Germans and frighten > the inhabitants. THe American OSS. still clung to > the > scheme of putting Mihailovic and his Partisans in > power, after the British had dumped them. certainly > it > was no accident. > > Dresden was intended to be the target for the BOMB, > it > but wasn't ready in time. It wasn't intended for > Japan > at all, but for Germany. > But conventional Strategic Bombing was meant to show > the Russians to watch out at the Peace Conference. > > RR. > > --- Francisco Javier Bernal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > > - > > > > > > > > Mass Murder: Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Urban Bombing > > > > Bob Petrovich > > > > > > War is hell and Hitler started it. He persuaded > his > > followers that their > > > > "moral superiority" > > excuse them from being human and having mercy > > towards their victims. > > Almost 60 years later, we struggle to answer the > > question: was it the > > universal crime or > > it is crime only because Hitler lost the war? > > > > SCHRECKLICHKEIT - Nazi way > > > > Schrecklichkeit (frightfulness) - an instrument of > > the German invasion > > of > > Belgium and France, > > intended to disarm or destroy any civilian > > resistance. > > > > "Since speed was of the essence, > > no civilian harassment or irregular warfare > > would be tolerated by the Germans. > > They used heavy artillery, > > including the siege gun 'Big Bertha' > > . . . on the town centre of the city of Louvain; > > they shot hostages; burnt villages, > > and when women were raped by German soldiers, > > their commanders did little about it" > > > > Winter and Baggett's The Great War and the Shaping > > of the 20th Century , > > p. 67 > > > > > > > > SCHRECKLICHKEIT , "we'll meet again" way > > > > "We'll meet again, > > Don't know where, > > Don't know when, > > But I know > > We'll meet again > > Some sunny day." > > -Vera Lynn, singer, 1942 > > > > When Winston Churchill became Prime Minister May > 10 > > 1940, he appointed > > Frederick Alexander Lindemann as his adviser. Soon > > Lindemann air > > doctrine > > followed, an adaptation of ideas of Italian > fascist > &g
RE: SCHRECKLICHKEIT [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK - Yup, We really did well in the Boer War as well, and in the run-up to the Spanish-American war, the British unofficially "advising" as part of an informal deal with the Americans brokered by Theodore Rooseveldt, the secretary of the navy, RR. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > Richard, > > "Refined" is a good way to put it, lest we overlook > the British media's > considerable achievements in mendacity during the > Boer War, mentioned by > Phillip Knightley in "Propaganda Wars." > (http://mujweb.atlas.cz/www/kutija/phknight.htm) > > jy > > > -Original Message- > From: Richard Roper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 5:20 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: SCHRECKLICHKEIT [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] > > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > Just three comments;- > > The British invented, or rather refined Atrocity > propaganda in Aug. 1914, the Belgium Atrocity > Stories > being classics of the genre. > > Northcliffe had formed his Political Warfare > Department ( pyschological warefare) for just such > at > task. > It was crucial in order to get british public > opinion > to accept the war. People don't realise Britain very > nearly remaining neutral and the Liberal Party, > (Liberal government at time) essentially being > Isolationist > Also to get America into the war. > Incidently Big Bertha was not built until two years > later, and the story was they burnt down the Louvain > medieval library. > > There are the gravest grounds to suspect the > American > bombing of Belgrade in April 1944, to get rid of > Partisan prisoners held by the Germans and frighten > the inhabitants. THe American OSS. still clung to > the > scheme of putting Mihailovic and his Partisans in > power, after the British had dumped them. certainly > it > was no accident. > > Dresden was intended to be the target for the BOMB, > it > but wasn't ready in time. It wasn't intended for > Japan > at all, but for Germany. > But conventional Strategic Bombing was meant to show > the Russians to watch out at the Peace Conference. > > RR. > > --- Francisco Javier Bernal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > > - > > > > > > > > Mass Murder: Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Urban Bombing > > > > Bob Petrovich > > > > > > War is hell and Hitler started it. He persuaded > his > > followers that their > > > > "moral superiority" > > excuse them from being human and having mercy > > towards their victims. > > Almost 60 years later, we struggle to answer the > > question: was it the > > universal crime or > > it is crime only because Hitler lost the war? > > > > SCHRECKLICHKEIT - Nazi way > > > > Schrecklichkeit (frightfulness) - an instrument of > > the German invasion > > of > > Belgium and France, > > intended to disarm or destroy any civilian > > resistance. > > > > "Since speed was of the essence, > > no civilian harassment or irregular warfare > > would be tolerated by the Germans. > > They used heavy artillery, > > including the siege gun 'Big Bertha' > > . . . on the town centre of the city of Louvain; > > they shot hostages; burnt villages, > > and when women were raped by German soldiers, > > their commanders did little about it" > > > > Winter and Baggett's The Great War and the Shaping > > of the 20th Century , > > p. 67 > > > > > > > > SCHRECKLICHKEIT , "we'll meet again" way > > > > "We'll meet again, > > Don't know where, > > Don't know when, > > But I know > > We'll meet again > > Some sunny day." > > -Vera Lynn, singer, 1942 > > > > When Winston Churchill became Prime Minister May > 10 > > 1940, he appointed > > Frederick Alexander Lindemann as his adviser. Soon > > Lindemann air > > doctrine > > followed, an adaptation of ideas of Italian > fascist > > general Giulio > > Douhet. > > The crown jewel of Lindemann doctrine is > > fan-patterned firebombing of > > Dresden. (Firebombing is newspeak for achieving > > effe
Re: SCHRECKLICHKEIT [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK - Just three comments;- The British invented, or rather refined Atrocity propaganda in Aug. 1914, the Belgium Atrocity Stories being classics of the genre. Northcliffe had formed his Political Warfare Department ( pyschological warefare) for just such at task. It was crucial in order to get british public opinion to accept the war. People don't realise Britain very nearly remaining neutral and the Liberal Party, (Liberal government at time) essentially being Isolationist Also to get America into the war. Incidently Big Bertha was not built until two years later, and the story was they burnt down the Louvain medieval library. There are the gravest grounds to suspect the American bombing of Belgrade in April 1944, to get rid of Partisan prisoners held by the Germans and frighten the inhabitants. THe American OSS. still clung to the scheme of putting Mihailovic and his Partisans in power, after the British had dumped them. certainly it was no accident. Dresden was intended to be the target for the BOMB, it but wasn't ready in time. It wasn't intended for Japan at all, but for Germany. But conventional Strategic Bombing was meant to show the Russians to watch out at the Peace Conference. RR. --- Francisco Javier Bernal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > > > Mass Murder: Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Urban Bombing > > Bob Petrovich > > > War is hell and Hitler started it. He persuaded his > followers that their > > "moral superiority" > excuse them from being human and having mercy > towards their victims. > Almost 60 years later, we struggle to answer the > question: was it the > universal crime or > it is crime only because Hitler lost the war? > > SCHRECKLICHKEIT - Nazi way > > Schrecklichkeit (frightfulness) - an instrument of > the German invasion > of > Belgium and France, > intended to disarm or destroy any civilian > resistance. > > "Since speed was of the essence, > no civilian harassment or irregular warfare > would be tolerated by the Germans. > They used heavy artillery, > including the siege gun 'Big Bertha' > . . . on the town centre of the city of Louvain; > they shot hostages; burnt villages, > and when women were raped by German soldiers, > their commanders did little about it" > > Winter and Baggett's The Great War and the Shaping > of the 20th Century , > p. 67 > > > > SCHRECKLICHKEIT , "we'll meet again" way > > "We'll meet again, > Don't know where, > Don't know when, > But I know > We'll meet again > Some sunny day." > -Vera Lynn, singer, 1942 > > When Winston Churchill became Prime Minister May 10 > 1940, he appointed > Frederick Alexander Lindemann as his adviser. Soon > Lindemann air > doctrine > followed, an adaptation of ideas of Italian fascist > general Giulio > Douhet. > The crown jewel of Lindemann doctrine is > fan-patterned firebombing of > Dresden. (Firebombing is newspeak for achieving > effects of atomic bomb > by > conventional explosives.) Dresden had no industry. > It was cultural > center > protected by treaty between Germans and Britons. > > Air Marshall "Bomber" Harris summed it up: > > "Whenever the fact that our aircraft OCCASIONALLY > (emphasis BP) > killed women and children is cast in my teeth I > always produce this > example of the blockade, although there are > endless others > to be got from the wars of the past. " > > Up to 2 million German civilians were killed > "occasionally" in British > area > bombing and American "precision bombing" of German > cities. > > "They reaped what they sow" one may rightfully say. > But what about > others? > > Civilians in occupied Europe were also > "occasionally" targeted, > especially > on Christian religious holidays. > They were bombed, although they did not follow > Hitler's murderous path, > even when fought against Hitler and were > recognized as allies. > During only one such air raid, USAAF air raid on > Belgrade, (Orthodox > Easter > Sunday, April 16 1944) > more than 2000 Serbian civilians were killed. Two > times more than > Luftwaffe killed in Rotterdam, > 4 times more than Luftwaffe killed in Coventry. > Damage to German > occupying > forces was insignificant. > > USAF boasted that U.S. bombers equipped with the > "top secret" Norden > bomb > sight > could drop a bomb "into a pickle barrel." > > What happened? Official USAAF history explains that > Belgrade residential > > quarters were bombed > by navigational error. But it does not explain why > more than 6000 Serbs > were killed in Nish and Pirot, > some 200 miles away. Nor it explains why, if the > target was indeed > Romania, > "Happy Easter" greetings > found on unexploded ordnance were written in > Serbian. > Gratitude for saving 500 American Airmen behind > enemy lines, perhaps. > > By comparison,
Re: William Mandel's comments re. "NATO Invades Macedonia" [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK - CORRECT! But there's just one thing, there ain't going to be a Black Sea ferry service. The pipeline will go all the way, with a Bosporus underwater crossing. As the key section they started that last month, RR. --- Nancy Hey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > > William Mandel's comments re. "NATO Invades > Macedonia" > > > > >From : [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To :"Nancy A. Hey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject :Re: NATO INVADES MACEDONIA > > Date : Sat, 25 Aug 2001 10:50:35 -0700 > > > > Macedonia is essential to the pipeline that is to > carry Caspian-area oil > > across Bulgaria and westward to the Adriatic > after having been brought > > across the Black Sea by tanker to a Bulgarian > port. That is the reason for > > the "NATO" action (read U.S.), as it was for the > Kosovo War. This is also > > why "NATO" has announced a number for total arms > in Albanian rebels' hands > > that is a ridiculously low fraction of the truth. > The point is that the > > country of Albania, plus the Albanians of Kosovo > and Macedonia, are regarded > > as the bulwark for protection of the pipeline, in > exchange for which a port > > in Albania is to be the Adriatic terminus of the > pipeline. Transit and port > > fees will give it money, and the Kosovo and > Macedonia Albanians are presumed > > to be beneficiaries to some degree. After all, > where did all those arms in > > the hands of the Macedonian Albanians suddenly > come from? > > > William Mandel > > > > > > - > This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old > stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down ==^ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9spWA Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: archive@jab.org T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: On Rwanda [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK - Yes, I had forgotten about the story of Louise Arbour abruptly shutting the investigation down. the article i saw stressed that Madeleine Albright had handpicked Arbour for the job. At the time of the fighting there was the story that when the RDF commander was killed, his replacement was rushed from Staff-Officer training at Fort Benning by US. transport aircraft. The RDF is the same RDF who were involved in the original fighting at the time of independence. We are asked to believe they suddenly reappeared from somewhere. Many apparantly had posts within the Ugandan army, then suddenly set oof en masse for Ruanda. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > http://www.geocities.com/iwacu.geo/explosive.htm > > > -Original Message- > From: Rick Rozoff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 3:00 PM > To: Anti-Nato > Subject: On Rwanda [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] > > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > Richard is absolutely right on both scores. The > Canadian newspaper the National Post had an article > two years ago quoting a Rwandan who insisted that he > had testified and presented evidence to then Hague > head Louise Arbour, that "a certain Western power > had > provided the Stinger missile, captured during > Operation Desert Storm," to shoot down the > president's > plane. > The same witness said that at first Arbour evinced > interest in his testimony, then hastiy dropped the > matter and refused further contact with him. > Not hard to figure this one out. > Rwanda wasn't a matter of benign neglect, as it's > currently presented, but of active complicity - or > worse. > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > - > This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old > stopnato @listbot.com that > has been shut down > > > - > This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old > stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down ==^ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9spWA Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: archive@jab.org T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: BYSTANDERS TO GENOCIDE. Re: Rwanda [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK - The article looks like establishment liberal disinformation. If the Americans hadn't supplied the Stinger missiles and trained the operatores in how to fire them, to shoot down the President's plan, and if they hasdn't allowed their assets to cut loose and invade the country from Ruanda, then none of these events would have occurred. --- Steve Wagner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > --- > + In THE ATLANTIC MONTHLY | September 2001 | Digital > Edition > > BYSTANDERS TO GENOCIDE > by Samantha Power > > The Clinton Administration knew enough about the > Rwandan genocide early on to save countless lives. > It > passed up every opportunity to do so. Why? > > http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2001/09/power.htm > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > - > This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old > stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down ==^ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9spWA Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: archive@jab.org T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: WOMEN IN BLACK APPEAL FOR PEACE IN MACEDONIA [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK - I do not "bash" or "stab" but state facts. WIB. were the ones bashing and stabbing their country when it was under attack. It is pointless opposing the latest CIA covert action/ piece of terrorism whilst supporting the instruments to carry out the policy. WIB is an exact clone copy of the "Mothers" organisation in Managua at the height of the Contra war , opposing young men fighting/ being conscripted to fight the contras and encouraging mothers to "reclaim" their sons. It played a crucial role, not in Jugoslavia, but in the West in marshalling support for the war by liberals/ lefties etc. In Britain their supporters have been an absolute nuisance, and those in this city totally disrupted antiwar protests and the antiwar committee in March-June 1999 with their "KLA has absolutely nothing to do with the Americans and are just an innocent group of bitterly oppressed people" line. if challenged the reply was always "Ah! This is what our organisation in belgrade is saying!". Generous funding from the NED and its fronts and cut-outs speaks for itself. I might add that in Britain they would have been interned immediately on the outbreak of open hostilities. I suggest to exanmine the British wartime emergency regulations. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > Perhaps you should write them directly and add your > thoughts instead of back > stabbing and bashing them... > > And do send me your proof that WiB is a CIA > front.Because I don't endorse > the CIA in any of its covert actions, or any of the > world wide terrorism that > it participate in. I did not vote for either Bush > Jr or Senior, as that > would be a vote for the CIA wouldn't it? > > Please give proof of your accusations > > - > This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old > stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down ==^ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9spWA Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: archive@jab.org T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: WOMEN IN BLACK APPEAL FOR PEACE IN MACEDONIA [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK - Isn't it about time someone did something about this bullshit from a CIA Front-Organisation? If women in Black want to get their act together why don't the simply condemn American involvement and arming and training their para-military client. the exposure of the American connection is the only way to stop it. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > : Sat, 18 Aug 2001 11:16:39 -0400 > From: "STEPHANIE Damoff" <074182@. newschool.edu> > [add to address book] [add > to spam block list] > Subject: WOMEN IN BLACK APPEAL FOR PEACE IN > MACEDONIA > To: "STEPHANIE Damoff" <074182@. newschool.edu> > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > > > As you know, the war in Macedonia has escalated. > So > > far, our group has organized a number of > protests > > against the violence and the war that is going > on in > > Macedonia. Our friends from Macedonia have > supported > > us over the past years and together we were > building > > bridges o peace and friendship. On 14th July, we > > had a joint peace gatheringand a peace action in > > Bujanovac. We are in daily contact with our > > Macedonian friends and they are desperate. In > our > > opinion, international solidarity could help to > stop > > this war. If you agree with us, please join our > > appeal and send it to your governments, > parliaments, > > to the media and to the public, in order to > arouse > > and stir public opinion as much as possible. We > > would appreciate if you kept us informed about > your > > activities. > > > > In peace and solidarity, > > > > Stasa > Zajovic > > > > Women in > Black, > > Belgrade > > > > > > > > LET US STOP THE WAR IN MACEDONIA! > > > > APPEAL TO THE INTERNATIONAL PUBLIC > > > > > > This is an appeal to the peaceful women and men > in > > the world, to all the activists for peace and > human > > rights, to the democratic public of the entire > > world, and particularly to the public of the > world > > powers; ultimately, we appeal to all the > powerful > > world figures, to those who make decisions about > the > > fate of humanity. > > > > The war in Macedonia has escalated to the > utmost. It > > is not only the soldiers, but also the civilian > > population who are being killed. There are > plausible > > reasons to fear the worst. > > > > Helplessness is the main feature of those who > are > > striving for the restoration of peace in the > only > > country among the successors of the former > > Yugoslavia that was spared from war and > destruction > > at the end of last century. Helplessness is the > > underlying feeling in the daily lives of the > > Macedonian population, regardless of their > ethnic > > denomination. Unlike them, belligerent > minorities > > have come to claim their own: the outrageous > > violence of illegal armed Albanian formations is > > countered by Macedonian chauvinists' retaliation > and > > crime. As a rule, the victims of retaliation are > > innocent civilians. > > > > Those who have beenfollowing our activities know > >that Women in Black intermittently and publicly > > condemned the repression and crimes committed by > the > > regime of Slobodan Milosevic, especially the > terror > > against the Albanian population in Kosovo. We > also > > publicly supported the Albanians' non-violent > > struggle for the respect of individual and > > collective rights of the majority population in > > Kosovo, who had been exposed to discrimination > and > > apartheid for years. Having ignored that > persistent > > struggle for years, the international community > > intervened only after the spiral of violence had > > begun spinning, culminating in double genocide, > > first against the Albanian majority, and > afterwards > > against non-Albanian minorities. > > > > There are numerous indications that the > > international community is, practically, > repeating > > the same mistakes in the case of Macedonia. We > > wonder why nobody would even think of stopping > the > > Albanian terrorists in Macedonia and exerting > their > > influence in order to reach a compromising > solution > > to the controversial issues in the Macedonian > state. > > How many more victims will there be before some > more > > efficient measures are undertaken? > > > > In whose interest is it to see a Macedonian > replica > > of the bloodstained scenarios from Bosnia and > > Kosovo? Is the democratic international public > able > > to force the governments of the major powers to > > start behaving in accordance with the principles > of > > humanity? > > >
Re: AND NOW, FROM LONDON, YOUR MILOSEVIC MISINFO FOR THE DAY [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.U
Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK
-
This is in fact not new, only now more specific. it's
atheme which has been pounded out on the Whitehall
propaganda drums regularly at invervals for about the
past year.
--- Miroslav Antic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK
> -
>
>
> Dear friends,
>
> Having just met with Chris Black, who heads
> Milosevic's legal team, I
> can say
> with conviction: the 'Telegraph' claim that
> Milosevic would 'defend'
> himself
> by repeating the Western media's slanders of him -
> some defense! - is a
> complete fabrication, pure disinformation. Please
> forward this denial
> to all
> to whom you may have sent the Telegraph's lies!!
>
> The 'Telegraph' telegraphed this same bullshit a
> month or so ago, and I
> refuted it in the following article:
>
> The URL for this article is
> http://emperors-clothes.com/analysis/dis.htm
> www.tenc.net * [Emperor's Clothes]
>
> AND NOW, FROM LONDON, YOUR MILOSEVIC MISINFO FOR THE
> DAY
>
> The excerpt below is from the London 'Telegraph.'
> This newspaper has no
> connection with the Belgrade 'Telegraph' which
> published a transcript of
> an
> alleged phone conversation between Serbian Prime
> Minister Djindjic and
> Yugoslav President Kostunica before they illegally
> kidnapped President
> Milosevic. (1)
>
> The London 'Telegraph' article is educational for it
> demonstrates the
> extent
> to which the media spreads pro-Washington
> misinformation about the
> Serbian
> people in general and Slobodan Milosevic in
> particular. (2)
>
> The 'Telegraph' writers claim they have spoken to
> Milosevic lawyers and
> ferreted out details of Mr. Milosevic's legal
> strategy. This is
> remarkable
> since Milosevic's Legal Defence team has not yet
> been assembled. That
> is,
> there is no lawyer in the world from whom they could
> have ferreted.
> These
> details of strategy are purely fictional.
>
> According to the 'Telegraph,' Mr. Milosevic will
> make the following
> argument:
> "Sure I did bad things, but British leaders helped
> me." According to the
>
> 'Telegraph,' in this way Milosevic will show that
> "NATO is guilty" and,
> adds
> the 'Telegraph,' NATO leaders are very nervous.
>
> Sure they are.
>
> I can tell you one thing with certainty. The
> "Yes-I-am-bad-but-you
> helped-me-do-it-so-you're-guilty-too" argument will
> NOT be part of Mr.
> Milosevic's legal strategy.
>
> For years, outrageous actions by NATO were preceded
> by a kind of
> mock-criticism in the press. Media pundits would
> attack the Serbs for
> some
> atrocity, invariably fictitious. They would then
> castigate this or that
> NATO
> government (particularly the governments of the U.S.
> and England) for
> failing
> to take sufficiently strong action against the
> 'Serbian monsters.'
>
> Since people tend to identify with anti-governmental
> critics, this
> approach
> has the beauty of producing public support for even
> harsher government
> actions in the guise of attacking uncaring
> officials.
>
> When the NATO governments proceeded to take harsh,
> unfair and
> unjustified
> actions against the Serbs, the ground had been
> prepared. Instead of
> being
> furious at the blatant imperialism of NATO
> intervention, a section of
> the
> public thought, "Well it's about time they did
> something about those
> Serb
> fascists. Better late than never."
>
> Now the 'Telegraph' is suggesting that Mr. Milosevic
> will use the same
> sort
> of argument, though in retroactive form, saying,
> "Who are they to preach
>
> about war crimes? While I was committing all those
> war crimes they sat
> on
> their hands or even helped me." If Mr. Milosevic
> were to adopt such an
> approach, he would accomplish two things for NATO.
> First he would agree
> that
> he (and of course the Serbian people) was guilty as
> charged. Second, he
> would
> justify NATO's most aggressive actions. And third,
> such a defence would
> be
> devastating to those who want to use this 'trial' to
> attack NATO and the
>
> Tribunal and clear the name of the Serbs.
>
> For the record, I have contacted a representative of
> the Socialist Party
> of
> Serbia. Speaking for the Head Committee, he had the
> following comment
> about
> the 'Telegraph's' claims:
>
> "This, and you may quote me, is *expletive meaning
> horse manure*." (SPS
> spokesman, interviewed by phone, 1 July 2001)
>
> When Mr. Milosevic was being 'processed' at The
> Hague. He reportedly
> said:
>
> "I am not afraid of the Hague tribunal...that is no
> court but a political circus aimed at jeopardizing
> the Serb
> peopleAnd let
> me tell you one thing - you are not arresting me,
> you are kidnapping me
> and
> you will answer for your crimes. Drop the
> buffoonery, let's hurry up."
> ('AP,'
> 30 June 2001)
>
> I contacted Chris Black, C
Re: NEWSWEEK: What Did the CIA Know? [ In Krajina ] [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK - It knew everything because it was its own Covert Operation. The whole thing is bullshit and "Plausible Deniability" - Eisenhower "it should not be obvious, but if it becomes obvious, there should be plausible deniability". The whole "Croatian" army was equipped and trained by the Americans, using allies whre necessary, but by them. --- Miroslav Antic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > > > [ And what about arms embargo imposed on the whole > ex-YU ? > Who supplied tanks and other military hardware to > Croats? > CIA, MPRI and Croatian forces launched operation > "Storm" against Krajina > Serbs and Canadian peacekeepers. The first sentence > in the report is > very untrue.] > > > http://www.msnbc.com/news/616111.asp > > What Did the CIA Know? > > Ante Gotovina stands accused of war crimes. Now the > Croat wants his > former allies in U.S. intelligence to help prove him > innocent > > By Roy Gutman > NEWSWEEK INTERNATIONAL > > > > Aug. 27 issue - At a secluded military base > on Croatia's Adriatic > coast, an unpiloted CIA plane rolled down the > runway, then climbed > slowly over tall pine trees and headed into hostile > airspace. It was > July 1995, and a new conflict was brewing. > > SERBIAN LEADER SLOBODAN MILOSEVIC had > conquered Croatia's > Krajina border zone with Bosnia in 1991, and now > Croatia was preparing a > lightning assault to get it back. Americans in > military uniform, > operating from a cream-colored trailer near the > runway, directed the > GNAT-750 drone to photograph Serb troop positions > and weapons > emplacements. The images were transmitted back to > base, analyzed and > then passed on to the Pentagon. According to top > Croat intelligence > officials, copies were also sent to the headquarters > of the Croatian > general in command of "Operation Storm." >The classified reconnaissance missions > continued for months, > until long after Croat forces had pushed the Serbs > into neighboring > Bosnia. And the information proved vital to the > success of Operation > Storm, according to the Croats. Late in the 72-hour > campaign, Croat > officials say, the drone photos showed Serb forces > massing for a > counterthrust. The Croatian commander of the > operation, Gen. Ante > Gotovina, massed his own troops at the point of the > Serb breakthrough > and shattered the assault. Now the successful CIA > operation is about to > become defense exhibit A in a war-crimes case at The > Hague tribunal. > Last month prosecutors announced the indictment of > General Gotovina for > atrocities committed during and after Operation > Storm, including the > murder of 150 Krajina Serbs, the forced displacement > of as many as > 200,000 others and the torching of thousands of > homes. Gotovina, 45, who > once served in the French Foreign Legion, denies any > role in the > atrocities, most of which occurred in the three > months after the > military operation ended. Yet he has refused to > surrender to the > tribunal, complaining that he would have to spend > years in jail awaiting > trial. Gotovina's Chicago-based lawyer, Luka > Misetic, argues that U.S. > intelligence will be vital to his case. "He was in > the chain of command, > but there was this other set of eyes and ears > watching this operation," > says Misetic. "No one there [in the CIA] saw there > was a problem with > war crimes or a crime against humanity ... The > information the United > States possesses is relevant to establishing General > Gotovina's > innocence." > > > Croatia: What Did the FBI Know? > > > Now a NEWSWEEK investigation has shown that > U.S. intelligence > cooperation with Croatia went far deeper than > Washington has ever > acknowledged. According to Miro Tudjman, son of the > late president > Franjo Tudjman and head of the Croatian counterpart > to the CIA in the > mid-1990s, the United States provided encryption > gear to each of > Croatia's regular Army brigades. He says the CIA > also spent at least $10 > million on Croatian listening posts to intercept > telephone calls in > Bosnia and Serbia. "All our [electronic] > intelligence in Croatia went > online in real time to the National Security Agency > in Washington," says > Tudjman. "We had a de facto partnership." > > A 'LIAISON RELATIONSHIP' >American officials familiar with intelligence > issues confirm that > the CIA operated drones from a base near Zadar on > the Adriatic coast, > during and after Operation Storm. They also > acknowledge what they > describe as "limited sharing" of intelligence > information with Croatia. > (Two former senior administration officials, > however, deny that such > sharing was ever approved by the White > House.) And although U.S. officials refuse to talk > about encryption > equipment, they co
The Yanks are Coming [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK - The International Herald Tribune , Friday, August 17, 2001 U.S. Media Blitz Set for Macedonia Peter Finn Washington Post Service Advertising Campaign Aims to Promote Peace Agreement SKOPJE, Macedonia - The U.S. government is planning to finance an intense political advertising and lobbying campaign here in the next 45 days to secure parliamentary passage of a peace deal that expands the rights of the ethnic Albanian minority, but is regarded with deep skepticism by Macedonian political parties and the Macedonian public, according to sources here and in Washington. The United States could spend up to $250,000, a significant amount of money for a media campaign in this country of two million, buying radio and television spots, and newspaper advertisements. U.S. officials are also considering direct mailings to every household, which would be the first such effort in this Balkan country. The campaign, which could be launched in the next few days with radio spots, will be coordinated with the office of President Boris Trajkovski, whose advisers, working with Western strategists, will help fashion a message that could change week to week as in an electoral campaign. The president´s involvement is regarded as critical because U.S. officials remain nervous that the project will be construed as interference. The media campaign, organized by the U.S. Agency for International Development and American nonprofit organizations, will be directed to the Macedonian and ethnic Albanian communities in each of their languages. Local advertising agencies will be hired to translate the strategy into a viable public campaign. And the message will differ from community to community. Macedonians are likely to hear that the deal offers "stability" and "security" without any great emphasis on the details of the agreement, which they largely regard as a sellout that could result in the ultimate partition of the country. Albanians are likely to hear that the agreement is a just response to their civil rights grievances and they should now abandon any extremists who want to push for more concessions from the Macedonians or continue a campaign of violence. Ali Ahmeti, political leader of the ethnic Albanian National Liberation Army, which launched an insurgency here six months ago, is "reasonably happy" with the agreement and prepared to cooperate with a NATO disarmament plan, according to a Western official who met him. Leaders of the moderate Social Democratic Alliance of Macedonia, one of the Macedonian political parties that signed the agreement, will attempt in the coming days to poll the 120 members of Parliament to learn their voting intentions. The United States will then encourage local mayors and community leaders to lobby those members who are opposed or wavering to vote "yes" on ratification of the agreement. Western diplomats are also expected to visit parliamentarians, and a Western donor conference for Macedonia is regarded as a particular sweetener. The United States is also considering flying Macedonian members of Parliament, particularly members who are hostile to the accord or uncertain about how they will vote, to some American states, possibly California or Texas, to see how bilingualism works in those places; one of the most controversial aspects of the agreement is the elevation of Albanian to the status of a second official language. All 25 ethnic Albanian members of Parliament are expected to support the deal, whose ratification requires 80 votes to amend the constitution. The International Republican Institute, a Washington-based nonprofit organization with some U.S. government funding, has already commissioned a nationwide voter survey with 35 questions, mostly about the peace agreement. The results of the survey, expected in the next few days, will allow Western consultants, working with the president´s advisers, to tailor what they are calling "public service announcements" to the public and legislators. The International Republican Institute was heavily involved with the media campaign of Otpor, the Serbian student movement that helped defeat former President Slobodan Milosevic in presidential elections last year. The campaign here is likely to be more restrained and overt, but the stakes are just as high because if Parliament fails to ratify the agreement, it could plunge the country back into a state of war, with North Atlantic Treaty Organization troops on the ground. "We are trying to ensure that the peace plan is widely discussed and that the public is well-informed," said a spokesperson for the U.S. Embassy in Skopje, who said the campaign may also include call-in shows on radio so that naysayers can make their arguements. But, clearly, the United States and its European allies desperately want passage of the agreement, and the campaign, if not explicitly advocating a
Re: JUST A MORAL OBLIGATION [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK - Heather, yes, I found it was one I had visited before. A lot of the Macedonian leadership STILL don't realise what's happening. What I really object to is the role of our very own Master Tony and his acolytes in this. One news item - they started work on the crucial underwater Bosporus crossing section of the pipeline last month - it was obvious that the stories of short-distance pipelines from Varna and a Black Sea ferry service of supertankers was a blind. Nice 0ne - I'd forgotten about the Pastor Neimoller quote. The reason for this is that in the US. and Canada many are related to Ustasa or Chetniks who left in 1945 or have been influenced by them. Another problem is lack of publicity on the WWII massacres - no co-incidence, i discovered that truman and the US. gov't were very strongly pro-Mikhailovic and the Chetniks, far more so than their British creators, with several spreads in "Time" devoted to him and a faction of the US. administration - (the C. on FR, and Dulles) - wanted to go for the old British scheme of an invasion in SE. Europe to put him in power, well after the British had switched to Tito. The result is more clarity in Britain, the Ustasa's activities were known years ago and strangely some of the strongest voices were right-wing - former militaty liaison officers to Tito's HQ. Straight in in 1991 - "Fourth Reich !". There were some very good documentaries on "The Ratlines". But we have another problem, the "Left" almost entirely went along with the official propaganda. I'm just firing off a few broadsides at the moment to try to get them to take some action on macedonia, RR. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > Rich, > Go to the link. Sadly, it is just a new group of > people in the Balkans > who thought they could be left undisturbed by the > rampages of the US > government and NATO. (good sources there, though, it > is well done, the > webpage). > > As they calmly went about their Macedonian > "independent" business for the > past 10 years or so, many of the people of Macedonia > may have thought they > would be safe from NATO machinations . Now, they > are learning the truth. The > same forces that broke up Yugoslavia and the liars > who talk out of two sides > of their mouths are coming after them. To paraphrase > Niemoeller, > " They came for the Slovenians but I wasn't a > Slovenian, so I didn't speak > out, and they came for the Croatians but I wasn't a > Croatian so i didn't > speak out, and they came for the Bosnians, but I > wasn't a Bosnian so i didn't > speak out, and they came for the Serbs (they ALWAYS > came for the Serbs) and I > didn't speak out., And now when they came for the > Macedonians (and make no > mistake it will be the Greeks, next, in "Chimeria, > as the fascists among the > Albanians call it), there was no one left to speak > out. " > > So many of the Yugoslav people in the US and > Canada are and were > conservative and anti-socialist, that they never > really understood why the > US/NATO went after their country. It is infuriating, > but that is a major part > of the problem. So many are bewildered and depressed > and confused by the > events of the last 12 years. They see the connection > with oil and resources, > pipelines and cheap labor of the east, but they > don't REALLY get it, > because they may not have opposed US policy toward > the rest of the world or > may have been beneficiaries of the system which > exploits others. > The Anti-Globalist movement needs to take this > on. To oppose NATO > expansion is a priority that has to make the links > with anti-imperialist > struggle and the anti-Militarist struggle. It's > coming. Some of the youth see > it. We are all trying to clarify it. I am > optimistic! > Regards, > Heather > > - > This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old > stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down ==^ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9spWA Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: archive@jab.org T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: JUST A MORAL OBLIGATION [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK - I'm sorry but where did this come from? It's DELIBERATE, it is policy, it is intended to pay off their Albanian nationalist clients, they want Macedonia anyway for the oil pipeline. It is TOTAL MADNESS to ask the US. to take action against the "KLA", cut off their arms supply, condemn them etc. as they are directly CIA clients and a Front-organsiation, and carrying out US. policy objectives. As to the ritual condemnation, it's what's called maintaining Plausible Deniability. WWhat do you imagine the 17 American advisors were doing there, had they taken a wrong turning. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > http://www.ok.mk/news/story.asp?id=2105 > > HREF="http://www.ok.mk/news/story.asp?id=2105";>MILCHO > MANCHEVSKI: JUST A MORAL OBLIGATION > > > Macedonia is collateral damage of the US policy in > Kosovo A report by the > Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe > (which monitors the > events in Macedonia), a statement by the State > Department, and a UN officer > this week all pointed at the Albanian separatists > fighting in this Balkan > country as perpetrators of ethnic cleansing directed > at the Macedonian (often > incorrectly called Macedonian Slav) population. The > good guys of yesteryear > became bad guys. > > This comes as no surprise to those diehard > Balkan-watchers who have been > following the evolving tragedy in Macedonia. > > During the ten years of brutal fighting in what once > was Yugoslavia, > Macedonia managed to stay unscathed. This she did > without help from the > international community. After tense negotiations, > the Yugoslav army left > peacefully, an admirable task credited mainly to the > first Macedonian > president Kiro Gligorov. There was tension (Gligorov > himself survived an > assassination attempt which left him with one eye > and with shrapnel lodged in > his brain), but no fighting. The government and the > people were repeatedly > applauded by the international community for their > efforts in creating and > maintaining a multiethnic society. (The > international community didn't help, > though. The embargo on Yugoslavia crippled > Macedonia's feeble economy; Greece > waged its own embargo on the young state.) Parties > representing ethnic > minorities sat in the parliament. Albanian parties > were coalition partners in > all governments since independence, and at present > six of seventeen > government ministers are ethnic Albanians, the > parliament vice-president is > Albanian, as well as several ambassadors. There are > primary, secondary > schools and colleges in Albanian; an Albanian > university is about to open. > There are tv stations, theaters, newspapers in the > languages of the > minorities. Why then the recent ethnic violence? > > The Albanian militants claim they are fighting for > human rights. This is a > mantra which has proven to be a winning argument in > the past. However, this > time the human rights issues are a front for armed > redrawing of borders. The > occupation of territory, abduction and murder of > civilians, the threats to > bomb the parliament building (in downtown Skopje, > the capital), cutting off > water supplies to the third largest city and - > finally - the ethnic cleansing > perpetrated on the majority Macedonians (who are a > minority in the area of > the conflict) point to the obvious: does one fight > for language recognition > with mortar fire and snipers? (Can someone kill cops > in LA or Miami demanding > that Spanish be spoken in the Senate?) > > The "ethnic cleansers" - NLA - are mainly old KLA > soldiers who fought in > Kosovo alongside NATO. (Even their initials are the > same in Albanian: UCK.) > Most of their arms and fighters come across the > border from NATO-administered > Kosovo. The UN Security Council last week requested > that KFOR and UNMIK > patrol the porous border more vigilantly. > > American, EU and NATO diplomats try to broker a > peace agreement which centers > on better guarantee for the Albanians' minority > rights, as a pre-requisite > for disarmament. This misses the point: the radical > Albanians fight for > territory. > > They are doing precisely what many observers have > been warning against for > years - escalating the violence until the average > citizen gets affected and > radicalized. > > Even though the diplomats insist they will not > negotiate with NLA (whom > NATO's secretary general George Robertson called > "thugs and murderers"), the > west is - de facto - legitimizing killing in the > name of a language dispute. > What a paradox! > > Meanwhile, the fragile and impoverished country > which was praised for its > multiethnic society and government, the same country > which was (and is) the > primary
Re: Yugoslav Scenario For Belarus [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK - Rick, It's on. Judging by the stories that have abruptly emerged in the last few days and are being played up and played up on British television channels, its already started, RR. --- Rick Rozoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > http://www.strana.ru > > Russian Issues > August 4, 2001 > > They Want to Play by Yugoslavian Scenario > Oleg Stepanenko > The plan is simple. A number of Belorussian cities > have US owned computer systems installed. The > electronic equipment is there to technically support > the very well known (from the Yugoslavian > chronicles) > operation. On the Election Day 15-17 thousand > observers will be brought by their western patrons > to > question voters about their preferences. It's not > that > important what the answers will be. By the time > local > polling districts close, the information will be > transferred via computer network into several > information accumulating centers. There will be > journalists (Western included) waiting for it. They > will immediately pass the pseudo objective > information > to all channels - BBC, CNN, Euronews, Russian > agencies, TV and radio companies. All Western > leaders > will get this information just like it was during > the > notorious elections in Yugoslavia. > Before official results are announces some > Belorussian > "Kostunica" will appear. Realizing the fact that > Alexander Lukashenko is going to be the only > favorite, > his nationalist opponents are going to bring not > less > than 10,000 of their regional supporters to make the > event look of a mass character. Shock-brigade will > attack the presidential residence and announce this > new Belarrusian "Kostinica" a new president. > "This plan will not go," Alexander Lukashenko said. > The radical opposition members have lost completely > to > the ruling forces during the first round of the > elections. The results of this round appeared to be > shocking not only to them but also to the West that > supported the opposition. They were left with a lot > of > money but at a great expense. Out of 15 candidates > that they planned to drag in only three made it. > "They got their money, distributed it, wasted it and > gave nothing to the people who had helped them to > gather all those signatures," Alexander Lukashenko > revealed one of the nationalistic democrats' > secrets. > Having lost the elections, the opposition decided to > go further and attack. Together with their overseas > sponsors they work on making new scenarios that > would > massively strike the president's team and the state > power structures. The opposition wants to discredit > the current government in front of the people so > that > it "can not stay on September 10." With this goal in > mind they throw in all this false information. > The source of this fake data is easy to detect. The > sites on the Internet created for the only > social-oppositionist candidate have their addresses > based in Texas, USA. Where do wives of those "lost" > people go? They go to the West, to the US. The US > state department, congressmen support the > Belarussian > opposition and dump all this fabricated information > on > Belarus. > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > - > This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old > stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down ==^ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9spWA Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: archive@jab.org T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: Zastava Workers Protest in Kragujevac [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK]
Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK - I agree, Louis, and it appears the "Free" (ha! ha!) TU. officials are almost certainly attempting to make any effective action ineffectual, since the object is to ensure the privatisation goes ahead. After all, the I.I.T.U and the I. I. for Free Enterprise, promoting these privatisation policies, are BOTH internal divisions of the SAME outfit. the US. gov't funded N.E.D. in Washington! This a Company Union with a vengeance, and gives new meaning to what you in America call "finks" - the NED. pay their salaries! --- Louis R Godena <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > - > > Let's not forget that the Zastava "workers" and > their "independent" trade > union "leaders" were among the biggest boosters of > NATO policy back in 1999. > I would be very suspicious of their motives, > regardless of appearances. > > Louis G > > > - Original Message - > From: Francisco Javier Bernal > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 1:20 AM > Subject: Zastava Workers Protest in Kragujevac > [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] > > > > Visit our website: HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > > - > > > > Please remember to use the new list address: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Refer > > to http://www.stopnato.org.uk for further > information. > > > > > .. > > > > > From: "Jim Yarker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Subject: FW: Zastava Workers Protest in > Kragujevac > > > Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 23:11:00 -0400 > > > Message-ID: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > > Content-Type: text/plain; > > > charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > X-Priority: 3 (Normal) > > > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > > > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 > (9.0.2910.0) > > > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE > V5.50.4522.1200 > > > Importance: Normal > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Gregory Elich > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 10:49 PM > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Jim Yarker > > > Subject: Zastava Workers Protest in Kragujevac > > > > > > Tanjug (Belgrade) > > > July 19, 2001 > > > > > > ZASTAVA WORKERS PROTEST IN KRAGUJEVAC > > > > > > Kragujevac, 19 Jul (BETA) -- Workers at > Zastava have gathered in > > > a protest rally in front of the Kragujevac > municipal assembly building > > > this morning, where representatives of the > Serbian Government are > > > outlining a proposal of the statutory and > organizational > > > transformation and strategic consolidation of > the Zastava Group. > > > > > > Serbian Ministers Aleksandar Vlahovic, > Bozidar Djelic, and Dragan > > > Milovanovic, as well as Nikola Zelic, chief of > the Serbian Government > > > expert team, outlined this program in a news > conference. > > > > > > The Zastava workers, led by Zorica > Djurdjevic, president of the > > > independent trade union of this automobile > factory, arrived in front of > > > the municipal assembly and demanded that the > ministers talk to them. > > > > > > A number of protesters broke into the > municipal assembly building. > > > The police and security staff are currently > attempting to diffuse the > > > situation. > > > > > > The workers are chanting: "Zastava is > Serbia," "Give us back our > > > factories," and "Come out." > > > > > > Access to the municipal assembly is blocked > by some 20 Zastava > trucks > > > and traffic on this street has ground to a halt. > > > > > > > > > > - > > This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old > stopnato @listbot.com > that has been shut down > > > > > > > > > > > > - > This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old > stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - This Discussion List is the follow-up for the old stopnato @listbot.com that has been shut down ==^ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9spWA Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: archive@jab.org T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
