[AsburyPark] Re: Henderson

[Gabrielle Obre]

Thanks Maureen, I trust your take on it.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, radio881gal restore88...@... wrote:

 Somehow I just don't think so.
 Sue has always struck me as someone who likes to do a lot of things 
 for the community, because they need doing -- not because the click 
 is doing something. And I think she keeps her own counsel, if you'll 
 pardon the pun. If Loffredo thinks he can run-herd on Sue, I think 
 he's in for a surprise. I've watched her conduct the Homeowners Assn. 
 meetings. She's fair and pretty stern. No nonesense. I don't see her 
 acquiescing to the Partners when they balked at developers having to 
 post performance bonds. No sir. That would not fly with Sue.
 Just a feeling.
 By the way, what about that letter of credit? Remember how Fishman 
 kept putting it off? Was that when MM came into the picture?
 Maureen 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj wernerapnj@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre
  gabrielleobre@ wrote:
   
   Someone told me that Henderson is a long time friend of Loffredo. 
 If
   that's true it sounds sorta incestuous. I could see the current
   council picking a yes man.
   
  ==
  
  Certainly seems like the case.
  
  Go along to get along 
  
  Instead of asking those hard to answer questions.
  
  
  Werner
 






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[AsburyPark] Re: Could the city benefit by adding a blog to it's website?

[Gabrielle Obre]

You're right Kevin..sorry. I was told they did and I just checked again. 

I would love to know which cities do. Again, a city that cared about
civic participation would tape them. Maybe the Obama spirit of open
government will trickle down.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Brown jersey...@... wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
 gabrielleobre@ wrote:
 
  Michael, 
  
  My guess is Jack wasn't thinking of something like what is posted
  here. This seems to have evolved into a community of all sorts of
  discussion. Besides, there are plenty of free discussion sites that
  wouldn't cost the taxpayers anything. I am sure there are plenty of
  current costs that lots of taxpayers are not happy with.
  
  Long Branch videotapes their council meetings. There is no reason 
 that
  city docs are not available in PDF form on the city's site. It would
  cost the city less. When I got a copy of the Budget (in completely
  unaccessible form for the average person) they handed me a pack of
  paper that would have cost a decent amount to photocopy.
  
  One of the reasons that I love the Center for Civic Responsibility 
 is
  that they teach citizens to go through a checklist of areas to
  discover how open cities are with information.
  
  A city that cares about open government would make information 
 easily
  available. 
  
  
 Actually, in Long Branch, the city refuses to video tape the 
 meetings. For the last year the people at meetings have asked the 
 Mayor  Council to cause Comcast to tape and view them as they are 
 renegotiating the cable contract.
 
 I have been taping them and putting them up at 
 http://www.longbranch.tv myself.  For the last 4 plus years, except 
 when I am out of town.  Then another volunteer has done it and gotten 
 the tape to me to place on the site.  It has been at no one's cost 
 but my own. (not complaining, it is my civic contribution)
 
 Also, it is easy for me to do as I have all the equipment, the 
 server, the software and I work on internet projects all day long.
 
 Kevin Brown
 www.jerseykev.com






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[AsburyPark] Re: January 21 Council Meeting mp3s on Asbury Radio.com

[Gabrielle Obre]

no, I had no trouble, but it does open a pop up. I don't know if all
blogger blogs do that, it may be in the settings. I'll play with mine
and see what happens.

The pop up may have been blocked by whatever Werner uses. I also have
a google and blogger account which made it easy for me.

Werner, you should write a blog. I hate to be a you should -er but
it would be a great ongoing story. and you wouldn't have to repeat it
over and over.

The comment about the contempt issue you posted is important, I didn't
think of it that way before. 


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, radio881gal restore88...@... wrote:

 I think the internet was kind of screwed up last night.
 Gabrielle - you had no trouble posting a comment to Asbury Radio, 
 right?
 If you don't want to try again, Werner, I'll post your comment here 
 as a new post on the site.
 You're welcome,
 Maureen
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj wernerapnj@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, radio881gal restore881FM@ 
 wrote:
  
   Speaking of hard questions, Werner, you asked a few last night.
   And Reidy's nonresponse response prompts a comment from you. 
   
   You can't let it hang like that. We've talked about it before. 
 It's a 
   confusing mess that contempt of court business. But you can find 
 a 
   way to summarize so we don't all die of legaleze. 
   Please post the comment on AsburyRadio.com where the exchange 
 can be 
   heard. And please explain why Bill Gray isn't heard on there 
 even 
   though his name is on the agenda. 
   I wrote Reidy to ask the reason for his not being there. If I 
 get a 
   reply, I'll post it.
  ===
  
  I tried to post a comment on your Blog, what a pain. I was directed
  through 4 or 5 windows trying to use my AOL id. Preview didn't 
 work,
  and finally got an error window saying Google had a problem.
  
  Here's the comment, sort of, since I lost the original.
  
  Reidy's non-answer is typical of Asbury Park. I was jailed twice 
 for
  issues with my porch, etc. The official record shows 'contempt' as 
 the
  charge. Nice way to bury the truth, anything can be 'contempt' at 
 the
  whim of the judge... sneezing, talking, cell phone ringing, etc. If
  the record had shown 'porch needs repair' it would have been 
 laughed
  out of Superior Court on appeal. So they get to say 'contempt' and
  save face while burying the whole episode.
  
  Werner
 






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[AsburyPark] Re: Could the city benefit by adding a blog to it's website?

[Gabrielle Obre]

Michael, 

My guess is Jack wasn't thinking of something like what is posted
here. This seems to have evolved into a community of all sorts of
discussion. Besides, there are plenty of free discussion sites that
wouldn't cost the taxpayers anything. I am sure there are plenty of
current costs that lots of taxpayers are not happy with.

Long Branch videotapes their council meetings. There is no reason that
city docs are not available in PDF form on the city's site. It would
cost the city less. When I got a copy of the Budget (in completely
unaccessible form for the average person) they handed me a pack of
paper that would have cost a decent amount to photocopy.

One of the reasons that I love the Center for Civic Responsibility is
that they teach citizens to go through a checklist of areas to
discover how open cities are with information.

A city that cares about open government would make information easily
available. 


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Michael W. Brim mw...@... wrote:

 Jack:
 
  
 
 Interesting concept.  
 
  
 
 Not sure if I would want my tax dollars going to support .. the like
 comments from this list!
 
  
 
 At least the posted would be signed.
 
  
 
 Michael 
 
  
 
 From: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com [mailto:asburyp...@yahoogroups.com] On
 Behalf Of Jack Pitzer
 Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 9:34 AM
 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [AsburyPark] Could the city benefit by adding a blog to it's
 website?
 
  
 
 Yesterday during the transition of power, a new website was launched.
 http://www.whitehouse.gov
 Part of the website is a section called The Office of Public
Liason which
 I've read will evolve 
 into a public forum.
 Wouldn't such a thing be a great addition to our cities website? 
 A place similar to this where people can brainstorm, post ideas, think
 aloud?
 
  
 
 
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[AsburyPark] Re: January 21 Council Meeting mp3s on Asbury Radio.com

[Gabrielle Obre]

Aren't they ALL homeowners. Renters pay taxes as well. 

Someone told me that Henderson is a long time friend of Loffredo. If
that's true it sounds sorta incestuous. I could see the current
council picking a yes man.

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Allan Peterson nnjalla...@... wrote:

 Good to have a homeowner on the council.  
 
 
 
 
 
 From: denise denisem...@...
 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 3:41:28 PM
 Subject: Re: [AsburyPark] January 21 Council Meeting mp3s on Asbury
Radio.com
 
 
 I missed council meeting so is Sue the new council woman
 
  _ _ __
 From: radio881gal restore881FM@ aol.com
 To: asburyp...@yahoogro ups.com
 Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 10:51:40 AM
 Subject: [AsburyPark] January 21 Council Meeting mp3s on Asbury
Radio.com
 
 Got a pic of Sue Henderson taking the oath and sound files for most of 
 the meeting, including the new appointments and reappointments to 
 committees and, of course, the public portion. 
 I put the mp3 recorder right up next to clerk Steve Kay, so you can 
 actually hear what he's saying now. That's important because most 
 times all you hear from the council is move it, pass, yes...etc. This 
 way you can hear what they're approving.
 Maureen
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
  
 
 
   
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[AsburyPark] Re: Pay Freeze and Freedom of Information Act relief

[Gabrielle Obre]

I was wondering if Ap would feel the pressure for a kind of similar
pay freeze.

Whenever I talk to people much more in the know than me all they talk
about is all the patronage jobs in AP. 



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakd...@... wrote:

 in Obama's Admin
 
 not in AP.
 
 In an attempt to deliver on pledges of a transparent government, 
 Obama said he would change the way the federal government interprets 
 the Freedom of Information Act. He said he was directing agencies 
 that vet requests for information to err on the side of making 
 information public — not to look for reasons to legally withhold it — 
 an alteration to the traditional standard of evaluation.
 
 Just because a government agency has the legal power to keep 
 information private does not mean that it should, Obama said. 
 Reporters and public-interest groups often make use of the law to 
 explore how and why government decisions were made; they are often 
 stymied as agencies claim legal exemptions to the law.
 
 For a long time now, there's been too much secrecy in this city 
 (washington), Obama said.
 
 He also called on pay Freeze for those making over 100k on the 
 current staff.






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[AsburyPark] Re: Pay Freeze and Freedom of Information Act relief

[Gabrielle Obre]

I have no idea if this is true, but something that I have listened to
a number of people complain about is that there are a good number of
patronage jobs in ap.




--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakd...@... wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleobre@ 
 wrote:
 
  I was wondering if Ap would feel the pressure for a kind of similar
  pay freeze.
 
 
 Why not?
 
 It ain't making no money and is running negative numbers.
 
 Sure it's not all the employees fault if at all. 
 
 Better a freeze vs no job.






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[AsburyPark] Re: Could the city benefit by adding a blog to it's website?

[Gabrielle Obre]

Don't forget to visit Maureen's site. I think she is the only one
doing the kind of thing she's doing. I don't go to it often enough.
You can leave comments there, which would obviously be more to the
point of her articles, and I am guessing she monitors them.

Also, maybe some help could be sent her way to have more advanced
recording equipment, tech help etc in the form of $$ or pro bono help.
just a thought.

There are two different sites, which I'm a little confused about, a
blog and regular site. Is there a difference Maureen?


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hing...@... wrote:

 Something Gabrielle said recently made me think of this concept.
 I think (hope) there are many people in our city who have good ideas
that they would like 
 to be heard and discussed on the city level, but I also think that
it may be tough to find 
 the time to actually attend council meetings and such.
 Of course, it would take moderation and time, which costs money, but
perhaps the 
 effectiveness of such a forum would justify the cost.
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Michael W. Brim mwbnj@ wrote:
 
  Jack:
  
   
  
  Interesting concept.  
  
   
  
  Not sure if I would want my tax dollars going to support .. the like
  comments from this list!
  
   
  
  At least the posted would be signed.
  
   
  
  Michael 
  
   
  
  From: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:asburyp...@yahoogroups.com] On
  Behalf Of Jack Pitzer
  Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 9:34 AM
  To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [AsburyPark] Could the city benefit by adding a blog to it's
  website?
  
   
  
  Yesterday during the transition of power, a new website was launched.
  http://www.whitehouse.gov
  Part of the website is a section called The Office of Public
Liason which
  I've read will evolve 
  into a public forum.
  Wouldn't such a thing be a great addition to our cities website? 
  A place similar to this where people can brainstorm, post ideas, think
  aloud?
  
   
  
  
  
  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 






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[AsburyPark] Re: January 21 Council Meeting mp3s on Asbury Radio.com

[Gabrielle Obre]

IF she is a long time friend, the photo with Loffredo's partner
holding the Bible makes it even more hilarious. I mean, wouldn't you
even attempt the appearance objectivity? LOL

What a show...

Still madly in love with the place, in some ways it just makes it a
funnier gay soap opera. Maybe the city could make money on a reality
show of the place...


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj wernera...@... wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre
 gabrielleobre@ wrote:
  
  Someone told me that Henderson is a long time friend of Loffredo. If
  that's true it sounds sorta incestuous. I could see the current
  council picking a yes man.
  
 ==
 
 Certainly seems like the case.
 
 Go along to get along 
 
 Instead of asking those hard to answer questions.
 
 
 Werner






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[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

[Gabrielle Obre]

Thank you so much Jennifer and Jadee for the perception thoughts.
Jennifer, your balance and equanimity is an inspiration for me and
something I need to learn from.

Werner, I am truly sorry for going off on you some weeks ago. I know
how valuable your knowledge of Asbury is. Your love is clear. But
science does tell us that perception has a lot to do with us. Is it
Heisenberg's principle that even suggests that we CHANGE reality with
our perceptions?

I just listened to a talk by Russel Targ, physicist, CIA trainer and
author of a new book called I think the end of suffering. Thats
where my passion lies. I used to be so negative about everything (ask
my mother). We have to change if we want our world to change. Be
negative if you want, but it really only hurts yourself.

Jack, you take things way too personally. Life is so much more
enjoyable when you don't. Whatever someone says has nothing to do with
us. Only egos get offended. No one can touch who you are at essence.
Thats freedom. And insanity is doing the same thing over and over and
expecting different results. And complaining is useless. I don't have
the time to be as involved as I would like, and I don't have the
tolerance for the BS, phoniness, scheming etc. And I don't live in the
past, or reminisce about it.

I am an optimist and most people would look at my life and wonder how
that is possible. I'm 41 about to enter vocational school. There are
so many good things happening in the world its amazing. Find a talk on
FORA tv by Paul Hawken. So beautiful. And it may sound kooky on this
board, but the only reason we are here is to expand in consciousness
and love. Yes for our enemies, those who would take us down, etc.

Happy Happy inauguration Day! 


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakd...@... wrote:

 -
 maybe change is needed in AP as well.
 
 Someone to figure out AP's decades old fiscal problems and devise a
 plan that will focus on becoming self funded with such a reliance on
 the state, fed gov, singers, builders etc..
 
 Story in the APP on how the 600 school districts are going to HAVE to
 go k-12 or form regional districts. 
 
 But that will up to the county to decide. 
 
 So right along the shore you have Bradley, Deal, Belmar etc - all will
 have to come to grips soon, as will having to pay a fairer sahre of
 our property taxes.
 
 Anyone see that Neptune has introduced an ordinance to charge a 3%
 hotel tax?






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[AsburyPark] Re: reality is a woman

[Gabrielle Obre]

My name isn't Gabie Dubie. Maybe I'm wrong, but businesses in AP seem
pretty busy, certainly on weekends. Do you drive around here much?
Maybe some are hurting, but there are lots of people around
considering it is the middle of winter in a harsh economy. 

I'll tell you what is not reality, a misogynist trader whose life is
money. I got to witness those cretins on the floor of NYMEX.
Positively devolution in action. But I do love the markets somehow. 


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Dubrow traderd...@... wrote:

 Gabrielle  wroteA thriving restaurant/entertainment  
 economy.
 
 Just where are you describing there Gabie?
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

[Gabrielle Obre]

Jack, I did NOT call you insane. I repeated a line I have heard over
and over that has been helpful to me. When I get insulted, I AM taking
something personally.

Complaining IS useless. I even found a site (connected to the work of
Eckhart Tolle) that aims to end complaining, gossip and criticizing
http://www.acomplaintfreeworld.org/howitworks.html

AND, I do not say this because I am free of complaining, gossip or
criticizing. 

There are tons of things that the city does that I find absolutely
ludicrous. The bike unfriendliness of cookman (the new section) is one
of the grossest examples of absolute idiocy. So I make fun of them for
it and ride my bike smack down the middle. But I also have to
acknowledge that I wasn't there at the meetings, so I have to take
some responsibility.

All of my experiences sitting in the council chambers were a hoot to
me. Ridiculous really. They are not smart people generally speaking. A
friend who lives out of state for part of the year and is very active
in his community once asked me about one of the council members. Does
that guy have ANY education he asked me, He's a buffoon. That's why
I can't go to those meetings. I once listened to one of the council
members respond to a question and it was perfectly clear that the guy
had no idea what the question was about. It was embarrassing. I'd give
anything for someone educated in communication and government to sit
and write comments about it.

Another thing as I yab on. I was at an event where women in smaller
government were being celebrated. A fairly well known woman asked me
where I lived and when I told her, her response was Oh boy, you've
got problems down there.

They should NOT be sitting above members of the community, they should
be sitting beneath them. 

Go sometime for entertainment. I recommend a few cocktails beforehand.
I'll go with you, but I need a buzz. And it will be killed fast.

That said, we can enjoy what is here. And it genuinely just makes me
sad when it seems to bum you out so much. One of my favorite spiritual
teachers says something like, everything is a mess and everything is
exactly the way its supposed to be. He's the I'm an ass your an ass
guy. Anthony DeMello. 

I will shut up with a quote from Ani Difranco The world owes me
nothing, we owe each other the world.

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hing...@... wrote:

 No, I actually don't take things too personally.
 I think you are blissfully unaware of how insulting you can be at times.
 You basically suggested I was insane in a recent post.
 You told me my perception is wrong.
 I love Asbury Park and I have a different vision where I wish the
city would go and you tell 
 me I'm wrong.
 Complaining isn't useless when it leads to meaningful discussion,
and it breaks down 
 when you interrupt that discussion by projecting thoughts in which
you suggest insanity.
 You refuse to understand that my thoughts about AP come from the
fact that I love this 
 place. I subject myself and my car to a 140 mile a day commute
because I don't want to 
 live any place else.
 
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleobre@
wrote:
 
  Thank you so much Jennifer and Jadee for the perception thoughts.
  Jennifer, your balance and equanimity is an inspiration for me and
  something I need to learn from.
  
  Werner, I am truly sorry for going off on you some weeks ago. I know
  how valuable your knowledge of Asbury is. Your love is clear. But
  science does tell us that perception has a lot to do with us. Is it
  Heisenberg's principle that even suggests that we CHANGE reality with
  our perceptions?
  
  I just listened to a talk by Russel Targ, physicist, CIA trainer and
  author of a new book called I think the end of suffering. Thats
  where my passion lies. I used to be so negative about everything (ask
  my mother). We have to change if we want our world to change. Be
  negative if you want, but it really only hurts yourself.
  
  Jack, you take things way too personally. Life is so much more
  enjoyable when you don't. Whatever someone says has nothing to do with
  us. Only egos get offended. No one can touch who you are at essence.
  Thats freedom. And insanity is doing the same thing over and over and
  expecting different results. And complaining is useless. I don't have
  the time to be as involved as I would like, and I don't have the
  tolerance for the BS, phoniness, scheming etc. And I don't live in the
  past, or reminisce about it.
  
  I am an optimist and most people would look at my life and wonder how
  that is possible. I'm 41 about to enter vocational school. There are
  so many good things happening in the world its amazing. Find a talk on
  FORA tv by Paul Hawken. So beautiful. And it may sound kooky on this
  board, but the only reason we are here is to expand in consciousness
  and love. Yes for our enemies, those who would take us down, etc.
  
  Happy Happy inauguration Day

[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

[Gabrielle Obre]

Good morning newbee, I was wondering where the anonymous malcontent
was. Just to let you know I drove through town and by the boardwalk
last night and there were LOTS of people enjoying AP. Spending their
money eating and drinking and taking up parking spaces and providing
work for all sorts of people paying sales sales tax etc. But you
wouldn't know that because you don't live here.

Rafferty's was busy, Brick wall looked busy, Market in the Middle's
bar looked busy. It was a little early for paradise but there were
cars in the lot (from my direct experience sat nights are usually
packed). Stella Marina had people at the Bar upstairs, there were no
open diagonal parking spaces open along ocean. Langosta appeared busy
(from what I could see, someone who worked last sat said it was
jammin). People were going into Wonder Bar.

All this on a freezing evening in the middle of one of the worst
economic downturns in American history. Well whatya know.

I may be a loner on this board (which I don't mind, I am fiercely
independent and was taught to stand on my own with out the need of a
pandering posse) but there were lots of those like me, enjoying
themselves, spending money and contributing to Asbury's economy last
night in AP. 

I don't care about the budget anymore. I said this before, the entire
world is in debt, 13 million for a city in redevelopment is nothing.
Should the city figure out ways to get some of the green coming in, of
course, but I'm not about to subject myself to city council meetings
you and jack can feel free. I know Werner is usually there. I am
figuring out other ways to serve that don't involve so many egos and
bullshit.

Maybe you, Werner and Jack should start a complaint and gripe board
where you can post the same things over and over and over. I'll send
some healing love over to you, do some tonglen meditation for ya
before I go out on my tight budget and have some fun dancing with
others who know how to express the joy of their spirit in community.
why dont' you come down on the 31st for the bartender mix off. I'll
spot the 5 bucks for you.

and again, I'll call you on who you really are. I think mark mentioned
it once. You probably aren't new to ap, just a shit stirrer. maybe a
failed business owner licking wounds and trying to create misery
(unhappy people are good at that).

cheers buddy!





--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, New Beetoap newbeet...@... wrote:

 Holed up in this freezing weather forced me to entertain myself again 
 (I had sworn off) with this group. What do I find? - the ongoing 
 attitude by some that AP is fine the way it is, 'just enjoy it and have 
 fun'.
 
 I'll bet that the people (you know who you are) with that attitude know 
 very little about what it takes to make a town work. Especially from a 
 financial perspective.
 
 What happened to that budget discussion? This is a New Year - what are 
 the projections for revenue, expenses. Is AP racking up a negative $13M 
 or more balance sheet again?
 
 BTW: Is that beachfront done yet? Its going on a year since that was 
 promised.






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[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

[Gabrielle Obre]

You've got to be kidding me. A thriving restaurant/entertainment
economy has nothing to do with a town's financial situation? That's
deluded, not you, the idea. All you do is berate this town and the
people who enjoy and love it.

You my friend are a master of projection.

Once again I'll try, what's your name and where do YOU live?


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, New Beetoap newbeet...@... wrote:

 Its very clear that you just dont get-it.
 
 All the good things you mention have nothing to do with if AP is 
 financially solvent or not. 
 
 All those good things have nothing to do with if the redevelopment 
 has been a success or not.
 
 Its ok to not care about the workings of a town, please continue, but 
 how dare you berate people who do care about things that you admit 
 you dont.
 
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
 gabrielleobre@ wrote:
 
  Good morning newbee, I was wondering where the anonymous malcontent
  was. Just to let you know I drove through town and by the boardwalk
  last night and there were LOTS of people enjoying AP. Spending their
  money eating and drinking and taking up parking spaces and providing
  work for all sorts of people paying sales sales tax etc. But you
  wouldn't know that because you don't live here.
  
  Rafferty's was busy, Brick wall looked busy, Market in the Middle's
  bar looked busy. It was a little early for paradise but there were
  cars in the lot (from my direct experience sat nights are usually
  packed). Stella Marina had people at the Bar upstairs, there were no
  open diagonal parking spaces open along ocean. Langosta appeared 
 busy
  (from what I could see, someone who worked last sat said it was
  jammin). People were going into Wonder Bar.
  
  All this on a freezing evening in the middle of one of the worst
  economic downturns in American history. Well whatya know.
  
  I may be a loner on this board (which I don't mind, I am fiercely
  independent and was taught to stand on my own with out the need of a
  pandering posse) but there were lots of those like me, enjoying
  themselves, spending money and contributing to Asbury's economy last
  night in AP. 
  
  I don't care about the budget anymore. I said this before, the 
 entire
  world is in debt, 13 million for a city in redevelopment is nothing.
  Should the city figure out ways to get some of the green coming in, 
 of
  course, but I'm not about to subject myself to city council meetings
  you and jack can feel free. I know Werner is usually there. I am
  figuring out other ways to serve that don't involve so many egos and
  bullshit.
  
  Maybe you, Werner and Jack should start a complaint and gripe board
  where you can post the same things over and over and over. I'll send
  some healing love over to you, do some tonglen meditation for ya
  before I go out on my tight budget and have some fun dancing with
  others who know how to express the joy of their spirit in community.
  why dont' you come down on the 31st for the bartender mix off. I'll
  spot the 5 bucks for you.
  
  and again, I'll call you on who you really are. I think mark 
 mentioned
  it once. You probably aren't new to ap, just a shit stirrer. maybe a
  failed business owner licking wounds and trying to create misery
  (unhappy people are good at that).
  
  cheers buddy!
  
  
  
  
  
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, New Beetoap newbeetoap@ 
 wrote:
  
   Holed up in this freezing weather forced me to entertain myself 
 again 
   (I had sworn off) with this group. What do I find? - the ongoing 
   attitude by some that AP is fine the way it is, 'just enjoy it 
 and have 
   fun'.
   
   I'll bet that the people (you know who you are) with that 
 attitude know 
   very little about what it takes to make a town work. Especially 
 from a 
   financial perspective.
   
   What happened to that budget discussion? This is a New Year - 
 what are 
   the projections for revenue, expenses. Is AP racking up a 
 negative $13M 
   or more balance sheet again?
   
   BTW: Is that beachfront done yet? Its going on a year since that 
 was 
   promised.
  
 






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[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

[Gabrielle Obre]

Of course it matters who you are. Anonymous people can say anything
they want without it reflecting on who they are. You could be a
disgruntled failure at a business here. You could be a failed council
member, someone who lost their home, a disgruntled city employee. That
matters. The source of an opinion matter. People who care are not
afraid to be known. You are just an anonymous troll. Anonymous posters
are cowards.

The entire nation is on state support. Most businesses carry debt. I
understand Asbury is struggling in ways that Deal isn't, that is to be
expected. Are all the best choices being made, probably not. If you
have some hard evidence of serious malfeasance bring it up, call the
feds, you can probably do it anonymously.

BTW where is that document that says the redevelopment was supposed to
be finished by now?

Are you creating work for people? Asbury has always been a retreat of
sorts, a vacation get away. Entertainment and restaurants are
precisely what sustains that type of town. We don't have a steel mill
here. Could we use some small manufacturing, definitely. 

The thing that is so pointless about your comments is that you come up
with nothing constructive, you just mock the place. 

Ignorance is far from bliss, and neither is seeing the world from a
disgruntled, unhappy perspective, you know about that.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, New Beetoap newbeet...@... wrote:

 You my friend are the master of Ignorance is Bliss.
 
 AP is host to the restaurant/entertainment economy you talk about 
 and everything else so dear to you.
 
 If the Host dies or suffers serious illness all of that dies or 
 suffers too.
 
 My name or where I live doesnt matter. Be glad that some people care 
 about the Host. Unfortunately its in intensive care on life support 
 (State Funded).
 
 
 In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleobre@ 
 wrote:
 
  You've got to be kidding me. A thriving restaurant/entertainment
  economy has nothing to do with a town's financial situation? That's
  deluded, not you, the idea. All you do is berate this town and the
  people who enjoy and love it.
  
  You my friend are a master of projection.
  
  Once again I'll try, what's your name and where do YOU live?
  
  
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, New Beetoap newbeetoap@ 
 wrote:
  
   Its very clear that you just dont get-it.
   
   All the good things you mention have nothing to do with if AP is 
   financially solvent or not. 
   
   All those good things have nothing to do with if the 
 redevelopment 
   has been a success or not.
   
   Its ok to not care about the workings of a town, please continue, 
 but 
   how dare you berate people who do care about things that you 
 admit 
   you dont.
   
   
   
   --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
   gabrielleobre@ wrote:
   
Good morning newbee, I was wondering where the anonymous 
 malcontent
was. Just to let you know I drove through town and by the 
 boardwalk
last night and there were LOTS of people enjoying AP. Spending 
 their
money eating and drinking and taking up parking spaces and 
 providing
work for all sorts of people paying sales sales tax etc. But you
wouldn't know that because you don't live here.

Rafferty's was busy, Brick wall looked busy, Market in the 
 Middle's
bar looked busy. It was a little early for paradise but there 
 were
cars in the lot (from my direct experience sat nights are 
 usually
packed). Stella Marina had people at the Bar upstairs, there 
 were no
open diagonal parking spaces open along ocean. Langosta 
 appeared 
   busy
(from what I could see, someone who worked last sat said it was
jammin). People were going into Wonder Bar.

All this on a freezing evening in the middle of one of the worst
economic downturns in American history. Well whatya know.

I may be a loner on this board (which I don't mind, I am 
 fiercely
independent and was taught to stand on my own with out the need 
 of a
pandering posse) but there were lots of those like me, enjoying
themselves, spending money and contributing to Asbury's economy 
 last
night in AP. 

I don't care about the budget anymore. I said this before, the 
   entire
world is in debt, 13 million for a city in redevelopment is 
 nothing.
Should the city figure out ways to get some of the green coming 
 in, 
   of
course, but I'm not about to subject myself to city council 
 meetings
you and jack can feel free. I know Werner is usually there. I am
figuring out other ways to serve that don't involve so many 
 egos and
bullshit.

Maybe you, Werner and Jack should start a complaint and gripe 
 board
where you can post the same things over and over and over. I'll 
 send
some healing love over to you, do some tonglen meditation for ya
before I go out on my tight budget and have some fun dancing 
 with
others who know how

[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

[Gabrielle Obre]

when and where did I say I was enlightened? I believe in
enlightenment, but I am no where near it. If I was I wouldn't be
responding to anonymous internet trolls. And when and where did I try
to silence anyone? You don't like what I have to say. I am supposed to
shut up?

Remember Jack, you are the one who thinks only educated people
should have a voice. I think everyone should. And use it.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hing...@... wrote:

 It's amazing that somebody who casts themselves as enlightened finds
the need to put 
 down and want silence other people who have a different vision then
yours...
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleobre@
wrote:
 
  Good morning newbee, I was wondering where the anonymous malcontent
  was. Just to let you know I drove through town and by the boardwalk
  last night and there were LOTS of people enjoying AP. Spending their
  money eating and drinking and taking up parking spaces and providing
  work for all sorts of people paying sales sales tax etc. But you
  wouldn't know that because you don't live here.
  
  Rafferty's was busy, Brick wall looked busy, Market in the Middle's
  bar looked busy. It was a little early for paradise but there were
  cars in the lot (from my direct experience sat nights are usually
  packed). Stella Marina had people at the Bar upstairs, there were no
  open diagonal parking spaces open along ocean. Langosta appeared busy
  (from what I could see, someone who worked last sat said it was
  jammin). People were going into Wonder Bar.
  
  All this on a freezing evening in the middle of one of the worst
  economic downturns in American history. Well whatya know.
  
  I may be a loner on this board (which I don't mind, I am fiercely
  independent and was taught to stand on my own with out the need of a
  pandering posse) but there were lots of those like me, enjoying
  themselves, spending money and contributing to Asbury's economy last
  night in AP. 
  
  I don't care about the budget anymore. I said this before, the entire
  world is in debt, 13 million for a city in redevelopment is nothing.
  Should the city figure out ways to get some of the green coming in, of
  course, but I'm not about to subject myself to city council meetings
  you and jack can feel free. I know Werner is usually there. I am
  figuring out other ways to serve that don't involve so many egos and
  bullshit.
  
  Maybe you, Werner and Jack should start a complaint and gripe board
  where you can post the same things over and over and over. I'll send
  some healing love over to you, do some tonglen meditation for ya
  before I go out on my tight budget and have some fun dancing with
  others who know how to express the joy of their spirit in community.
  why dont' you come down on the 31st for the bartender mix off. I'll
  spot the 5 bucks for you.
  
  and again, I'll call you on who you really are. I think mark mentioned
  it once. You probably aren't new to ap, just a shit stirrer. maybe a
  failed business owner licking wounds and trying to create misery
  (unhappy people are good at that).
  
  cheers buddy!
  
  
  
  
  
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, New Beetoap newbeetoap@ wrote:
  
   Holed up in this freezing weather forced me to entertain myself
again 
   (I had sworn off) with this group. What do I find? - the ongoing 
   attitude by some that AP is fine the way it is, 'just enjoy it
and have 
   fun'.
   
   I'll bet that the people (you know who you are) with that
attitude know 
   very little about what it takes to make a town work. Especially
from a 
   financial perspective.
   
   What happened to that budget discussion? This is a New Year -
what are 
   the projections for revenue, expenses. Is AP racking up a
negative $13M 
   or more balance sheet again?
   
   BTW: Is that beachfront done yet? Its going on a year since that
was 
   promised.
  
 






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[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

[Gabrielle Obre]

Look Jack, the world and Asbury are what they are. I happen to believe
that if we want the world to be better WE have to be better. Not the
world. Obama isn't our Saviour. Though many seem to behave that way.

I am not using your own beliefs against you, you can't be for free
speech for only the smart people. Any tyranny can choose who should
speak and who shouldn't. Freedom is freedom for everybody even the
people who disagree with you. If you want more tolerance you have to
be tolerant. Take it all personally and be appalled, you are only
hurting yourself. Gandhi wasn't being flippant, we have to be the
change, its not a joke.

I don't mind the complaining about Asbury, it just doesn't seem to be
to effective or constructive. Complaining never is. I used to complain
all the time. What is the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing
over and over and expecting different results.

I could say the same thing about you listening to different voices,
and I am the only one here saying what I am saying.

Don't forget, this city was founded by a bunch of white straight
christian married men. I thank god every day we don't live in that
city anymore. I would be dirt, you would be ok. That's history. I am
not nostalgic for times past, the past is over. There are things from
the past I loved that are gone, the carousel, the ferris wheel those
awesome fun houses that you rode those little carts on. And there are
tons of things in the present I love. The beach bar, the new stone
pony, the lanes, paradise, stella marina, market in the middle,
twisted tree, brick wall. I love looking at the carousel building in
the lights.

I think one of the ways to a more enlightened way of living is love
and acceptance for what IS. From there things change. Like I said
before, if you really want to affect what happens here you have to be
involved, go to city council meetings, join commissions, draw up a
realistic plan for how a music hall of fame would be profitable. No
one is going to take ranting seriously. 

I just don't see evidence that ap is currently some sort of failure.
But time will tell. Do the people at the lanes have a problem with the
music scene? What about the pony? Is live nation in trouble, the
saint? Are there musicians who won't play here or have trouble getting
booked here (assuming they warrant booking).

The bandshell is gone perhaps, but the lanes is here, a pretty cool
place to see a show. Being hung up on what was is just a path to misery.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hing...@... wrote:

 I honestly think that it's appalling that the freedom of speech that
America's founders 
 fought so hard for has at times become so twisted and ugly.
 When I see people on the internet posting horrible racist comments
about our new 
 president, I simply will not sit back and be silent. I'd love to see
the whole nation become 
 smarter and have a more educated and worldly voice, and I believe
our new president very 
 well may lead us in that direction.
 That being said, if you are going to use my own beliefs against me,
then think about 
 where I'm coming from and what I'm trying to say.
 As for AP, why are you so intent on complaining about complaining?
 You never respond to different visions then yours with curiosity or
even acknowledge that 
 maybe a bit of what we had could've had a positive effect on where
we are going.
 Why is it so wrong to be sad that the city made virtually no attempt
to preserve what once 
 made it famous?
 Take me being upset about the Arthur Pryor bandshell. Did you ever
go to a show there? I 
 did. I played at shows there. It was amazing. If it had been
preserved, it would be an 
 attraction. The brass band that plays on the boardwalk could perform
up there in a great 
 setting. Most of the shows used to be free, but money could be made
if it was utilized, 
 although I love that you once could see a free concert in such an
exceptional and unique 
 setting.
 If you truly are on a path toward the enlightenment you seek, you
should have a more 
 open mind and be willing to listen to other voices, because you
might learn something 
 along the way.
 
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleobre@
wrote:
 
  when and where did I say I was enlightened? I believe in
  enlightenment, but I am no where near it. If I was I wouldn't be
  responding to anonymous internet trolls. And when and where did I try
  to silence anyone? You don't like what I have to say. I am supposed to
  shut up?
  
  Remember Jack, you are the one who thinks only educated people
  should have a voice. I think everyone should. And use it.
  
  
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote:
  
   It's amazing that somebody who casts themselves as enlightened finds
  the need to put 
   down and want silence other people who have a different vision then
  yours...
   
   --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleobre@
  wrote:
   
Good morning

[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF

[Gabrielle Obre]

Well, the BW isn't ALL high end retail like you suggested. There is
entertainment like you think there should be and lets see...the music
scene seems pretty lively, just not to your liking for reasons I can't
figure out other than it not being the same as when you were in HS. 5
venues + a dance club.

I know you will get other chronically dissatisfied people to agree
with you but thats the way unhappiness works, sorta like a magnet.

How often do you go to any of the restaurants/bars on the BW?


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hing...@... wrote:

 I also think your perception about ap is
 off
 
 How can you judge somebody else's perception?
 That's kinda ridiculous.
 Not everybody sees the world thru your eyes.
 Sorry, but I disagree.
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleobre@
wrote:
 
  I certainly wasn't looking for an apology. People can be as unhappy as
  they wish. Lots of people live the things would be better if...
  life. I just think its kinda sad and I will reiterate it has more to
  do with us than the world. I also think your perception about ap is
  off and would like others to know that there is a tremendous amount to
  enjoy and love here. There are plenty of posts about ap's failings.
  
  i am probably ignorant about springsteen, i mostly listen to lesser
  known artists. Loved him when I was 11. springsteen is a tiny drop in
  a sea of great music. and he hardly needs the attention.
  
  It also seems sorta pointless to complain here. You should be at city
  council meetings. Volunteering for commissions. 
  
  In my experience, the people who complain the most (and i don't just
  mean here) are those that don't participate in the vibrancy of the
  place; the food, the nightlife, the celebrations. 
  
  people are enjoying it and will probably continue to do so. I wish you
  and the others for whom delight is so out of reach would but that's up
  to you. the world will never mold to our own ego's specifications so
  our choice is to become open loving participants, try to become a
  power mongering tyrant, or be miserable. not a difficult choice for
  me. (and i love a little dissatisfaction myself once in a while...all
  egos do).
  
  I hope others make it to the economical entertainment on the 31st. And
  paradise is always a great place to have ...dare i say it, FUN!
  
  
  
  
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote:
  
   You know what?
   I make no apologies about my opinions of AP.
   I'm not going to be dishonest to myself or anybody about it.
   I think what we have now is a pale version of what we could have,
  and once had.
   I think were merely accepting something marginal, and I don't feel
  bad at all in saying it.
   Sorry.
   Currently the boardwalk draws a fraction of what it once did. It's
  better then it was in 
   recent years, but nothing like what it could be. 
   And as part of the local music scene, yes, we have one, but once
  again, since I work in the 
   business I feel confident in saying that it also isn't what it could
  be, but it's the best that it 
   can be at the moment.
   Obviously you don't know much about Springsteen and his connection
  to the city.
   His most famous album is callled Greetings from Asbury Park and
  the album cover is a 
   classic post card from it's heyday.
   He rose up in the scene playing at local clubs, most of which no
  longer exist. His name is 
   inextricably associated with the city.
   We all have different likes and dislikes, and there's nothing wrong
  with expressing that.
   You ask me what I like about AP? Plenty. I love my classic apartment
  and being so close to 
   the beach for a reasonable price. I love the architecture of
  Convention Hall and the 
   acoustics of The Paramount. I love The Saint, where I work. I
  absolutely love Cookman 
   Avenue because it still has a classic look with character.
   But, i greatly dislike the way the boardwalk pavilions have been
  renovated. It says nothing 
   at all to me. I don't like the architecture at all. I see a strip
  mall, but that's just me. I 
   greatly dislike the fact that the band shell has been eliminated and
  that nobody is taking 
   MM to task about it. I think high end retail is a waste of space
  destined for failure.,
   On the other hand, I love that there's a bike store there, because
  bicycling by the sea 
   really appeals to me. It's a big fixture in Atlantic City, Cape May,
  and scores of similar 
   places across the country.
   My discontent has nothing to do with the vibe in the country, in
  fact, AP is a safe haven 
   away from it because it's my home.
   Finally, with all due respect, you've never met me. I'm probably the
  most immature 47 year 
   old person I know. Smarter, but still very similar to the teenage
  me. I'm more about 
   aesthetics then money, more about The Adriatic then Applebees.
   I've also spent a huge amount of time living and working

[AsburyPark] Asbury Apartment

[Gabrielle Obre]

If anyone knows of any studio/ 1 bed apartments in town I would love
to know about it. Dreamy tenant.




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[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF

[Gabrielle Obre]

once again, my unpopular I heart AP response.

for starters, ap HAS a vibrant music scene, right now. Perhaps it
doesn't stir the emotions of when you were a teen. We live now, not
20, 30 years ago. And the comments I have been hearing from people the
past few summers actually reflect that ap does stir good memories, not
sure how many of you spend time in the local bizes, but I do. I hear
it. I can't wait to check out the Stone Pony. English Beat..yippee.

Its not all high end anything. I think there are two design like
stores that are out of the average persons pay range, so what,
everyone is supposed to live on my budget? good for those who can buy
an 800$ chaise. and wonderful for the retail owners who can pay their
rent with it. this is monmouth county, there is lots of $$ here, let
them spend it in AP.

O'tools is reasonable, that fried food place in CH is reasonable there
were all sorts of little knick knack shops that remind me precisely of
what was BW like years ago.

On the 31st you can sample cocktails for 5 bucks in CH, bring a flask
if you need more of a buzz, then you can walk down to paradise and if
you get there before 9 ish you can dance for free. and be entertained
if you are prone to enjoyment. they usually have drink specials.
langostas menu looks reasonable and the space is beautiful (someone
mentioned they were packed last sat)

the mini waterpark looks like loads of fun, the numerous festivals
that come are a blast, thinking of the beautiful kite one at the
moment, volleyball, road trip etc. there is regularly free music on
the BW.

for someone who mentioned somewhere else they are sick of negativity,
you dish it out a lot Jack. is there anything you like about the place?

as far as the Bruce thing goes, what's the connection other than he
sung about how depressed the place was? I don't need to romanticize
the badlands anymore.

is it perfect? no way. but neither is anything else. I really wish
people would stop bitching about the place which often seems to me
people projecting their general unhappiness onto the world around
them. what you see in the world has more to do with what is in your
head than what is in the world.

its so weird to me, everything you want is already here. except
perhaps the teenage you. 


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakd...@... wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote:
 
 
 The wnew stuff was only around for a few years-  one day. Yep - we'd 
 make a killing in a few hours, but NOTHING like being able to open at 
 7am and close around midnight, at least in my time. If a big group came 
 into town and it was hot - we'd just stay open as long as we could - 
 not close at 9pm.
 
 That's how you run a business that relies on hot weather and more - you 
 open early and stay open late and you can't do it alone. If someone 
 needs to hit a golf ball, play for stuffed animal or share a kohr's as 
 it dribbles down your body or ride a carousel or just sit and look at 
 the water or lay in the sand - it's called summer. You stay open at 
 NIGHT, so people can spend money. Junk food = profit.
 
 It's 11 degrees.






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[AsburyPark] Re: Another lost opportunity for AP - Bruce exhibit at RnR HOF

[Gabrielle Obre]

I certainly wasn't looking for an apology. People can be as unhappy as
they wish. Lots of people live the things would be better if...
life. I just think its kinda sad and I will reiterate it has more to
do with us than the world. I also think your perception about ap is
off and would like others to know that there is a tremendous amount to
enjoy and love here. There are plenty of posts about ap's failings.

i am probably ignorant about springsteen, i mostly listen to lesser
known artists. Loved him when I was 11. springsteen is a tiny drop in
a sea of great music. and he hardly needs the attention.

It also seems sorta pointless to complain here. You should be at city
council meetings. Volunteering for commissions. 

In my experience, the people who complain the most (and i don't just
mean here) are those that don't participate in the vibrancy of the
place; the food, the nightlife, the celebrations. 

people are enjoying it and will probably continue to do so. I wish you
and the others for whom delight is so out of reach would but that's up
to you. the world will never mold to our own ego's specifications so
our choice is to become open loving participants, try to become a
power mongering tyrant, or be miserable. not a difficult choice for
me. (and i love a little dissatisfaction myself once in a while...all
egos do).

I hope others make it to the economical entertainment on the 31st. And
paradise is always a great place to have ...dare i say it, FUN!




--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hing...@... wrote:

 You know what?
 I make no apologies about my opinions of AP.
 I'm not going to be dishonest to myself or anybody about it.
 I think what we have now is a pale version of what we could have,
and once had.
 I think were merely accepting something marginal, and I don't feel
bad at all in saying it.
 Sorry.
 Currently the boardwalk draws a fraction of what it once did. It's
better then it was in 
 recent years, but nothing like what it could be. 
 And as part of the local music scene, yes, we have one, but once
again, since I work in the 
 business I feel confident in saying that it also isn't what it could
be, but it's the best that it 
 can be at the moment.
 Obviously you don't know much about Springsteen and his connection
to the city.
 His most famous album is callled Greetings from Asbury Park and
the album cover is a 
 classic post card from it's heyday.
 He rose up in the scene playing at local clubs, most of which no
longer exist. His name is 
 inextricably associated with the city.
 We all have different likes and dislikes, and there's nothing wrong
with expressing that.
 You ask me what I like about AP? Plenty. I love my classic apartment
and being so close to 
 the beach for a reasonable price. I love the architecture of
Convention Hall and the 
 acoustics of The Paramount. I love The Saint, where I work. I
absolutely love Cookman 
 Avenue because it still has a classic look with character.
 But, i greatly dislike the way the boardwalk pavilions have been
renovated. It says nothing 
 at all to me. I don't like the architecture at all. I see a strip
mall, but that's just me. I 
 greatly dislike the fact that the band shell has been eliminated and
that nobody is taking 
 MM to task about it. I think high end retail is a waste of space
destined for failure.,
 On the other hand, I love that there's a bike store there, because
bicycling by the sea 
 really appeals to me. It's a big fixture in Atlantic City, Cape May,
and scores of similar 
 places across the country.
 My discontent has nothing to do with the vibe in the country, in
fact, AP is a safe haven 
 away from it because it's my home.
 Finally, with all due respect, you've never met me. I'm probably the
most immature 47 year 
 old person I know. Smarter, but still very similar to the teenage
me. I'm more about 
 aesthetics then money, more about The Adriatic then Applebees.
 I've also spent a huge amount of time living and working overseas,
where they tend to 
 value history more then we do, and preserve things rather then
rebuild, and when they do 
 rebuild they tend to stay faithful to what went before.
 Here in America, it's the opposite for much of the country. We don't
build buildings to last 
 anymore, we build them to knock down and replace because of money.
And I think that's  
 a great loss.
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleobre@
wrote:
 
  once again, my unpopular I heart AP response.
  
  for starters, ap HAS a vibrant music scene, right now. Perhaps it
  doesn't stir the emotions of when you were a teen. We live now, not
  20, 30 years ago. And the comments I have been hearing from people the
  past few summers actually reflect that ap does stir good memories, not
  sure how many of you spend time in the local bizes, but I do. I hear
  it. I can't wait to check out the Stone Pony. English Beat..yippee.
  
  Its not all high end anything. I think there are two design like
  stores

[AsburyPark] Re: Why was a dumpster buried at the Met hotel site?

[Gabrielle Obre]

It can't possibly be legal to bury an entire dumpster can it? What if
you buy the prop down the line and want to build and need to dig?
sounds shady. i hope you post updates.



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dapawprint dapawpr...@... wrote:

 Hmm,
 
 I had to give this a few moments of thought, but I may be on to 
 something.
 
 That red dumpster has annoyed me too and I don't even live in the 
 city.  Thinking back to my frustration, I believe that I had wondered 
 how and why someone would allow a dumpster to sit there for so long.  
 Dumpsters are rented and the longer that they sit there, the more they 
 cost.  I recall wondering why Christiello - or whomever was paying for 
 that big red eyesore had not had it removed.
 
 I don't know who's dumpster it is/was, but it was clearly not a DeLisa 
 dumpster.  Knowing (and assuming) that Christiello is from Morristown, 
 the Carter might not have been local.
 
 So, let's suppose that the business of being Mayor of Morristown 
 distracts a person enough to have forgotten that there was a red 
 dumpster working up a large rental bill in Asbury Park.
 
 The bill goes to collections and a phone call is placed.
 
 The Billee calls one of thier friends and ask then to make the 
 dumpster disappear so that the billee can report to the Carter that 
 they have no idea where it went, Gee, I thought you took it away.
 
 Dumpster gets buried, proof is on the Carter, billee is laughing 
 privately.  Hinge's friend foil the plot.
 
 I looked through that dumpster.  I am sure that there *could* be toxins 
 in there, but it appeared to be just junk.
 
 It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.
 
 
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote:
 
  This morning, I was told by 2 reliable friends that the dumpster that 
 was sitting in front of 
  the Met hotel was recently buried on the site.
  What's in the dumpster?
  Why was it buried?
  They believe that some kind of toxic waste was buried along with it.
  Can somebody direct me who to report this to?
 






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[AsburyPark] Re: Why was a dumpster buried at the Met hotel site?

[Gabrielle Obre]

right above the descrip of the list is a link edit membership at the
bottom right of that page click on leave group.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, chrisgrac...@... wrote:

 Can you please tell me how to get off this group and stop receiving
these emails
 
 -- Original message -- 
 From: oakdorf oakd...@... 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, denise denisemchd@ wrote:
 
  NJ DEP would refer this to the local enforcement. Which is Monmouth 
 County Solid Waste Dept
  
 
 A file is created.
 
 
  
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[AsburyPark] Re: Brookdale and BRAC

[Gabrielle Obre]

I know people complain about how expensive MC is but with Brookdale,
our amazing parks and our libraries, we have incredible resources
here. The Brookdale Library is a gorgeous space and MC residents can
borrow books. And it is a beautiful campus.

My heart goes out to those who have been really comfortable in a
position and it gets pulled out from under them. But the reality is
that there is no such thing as security. A friend of mine has been a
union employee for 20 some years, company was bought, may lose her
job. She has never sat in front of a computer. Sorta makes me mad at
the union. If the union was there for her benefit wouldn't they have
urged her to diversify her skills? Instead they may strike. 


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, marioa...@... wrote:

 Colleges' Role in Military's Restructuring, January 2009
  
 from The Chronicle of Higher Education: Money and Management:  
 http://tinyurl.com/7kess7
  
  
 Brookdale Community College, in New Jersey, is advising local
businesses  
 that will be hurt by the impending closure of Fort Monmouth. The
college is  
 devising short-term training programs to help former military
employees make the  
 transition into other professions, including computer networking,
project  
 management, and teaching, says Linda Milstein, vice president for
outreach,  
 business, and community development. The majority of the base's
5,500 workers  are 
 civilians, and many are expected to stay behind.
  
 Colleges Play Crucial Role in Military's Restructuring - Chronicle.com 
  
 Those familiar with the base-realignment process, which is commonly
known  as 
 BRAC, say colleges--in particular community colleges, with their
experience  
 in work-force education and their ability to build up programs
quickly † will 
 play a vital role.
  
  
 Across the country, colleges like Anne Arundel are devising
strategies and  
 designing curricula to meet the demands created by the substantial
troop 
 shifts.  They are adding degree and certificate programs and
refashioning or 
 expanding  others, in areas as diverse as network security,
procurement and 
 contracting,  and nursing. 
 The colleges are attempting to anticipate the midcareer training
needs of  
 military personnel and government contractors who are moving. They
are trying to 
  prepare local residents, like Ms. Sanborn, to fill positions
vacated by 
 defense  workers who opt not to make the move. And in places where
the armed 
 forces are  scaling down or pulling out completely, they are
stepping in to teach 
 workers  new skills and counsel small businesses that have relied on
a military 
  clientele. 
 
 **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just
2 easy 
 steps! 

(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/10075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De
 cemailfooterNO62)
 
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[AsburyPark] Christmas Tree?

[Gabrielle Obre]

I was driving by Stella Marina and noticed that the tree that was
there was gone. Then I realized that it was cut down from it burlap
wrapped base. I had assumed that the tree was bought live to be
replanted, so it was a funny site.

I wasn't going to post anything til i spoke with someone else who
thought it was peculiar. he thought it was stolen which is another
funny story. sorta funny no? I was wondering if anyone else thought
the site was incongruous. or know what the story is.





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[AsburyPark] Re: Hot Gay Beach

[Gabrielle Obre]

I don't think anyone here was offended by the ad. There was
speculation that the curtain raised during road trip was there to
avoid offense. apparently speedos can be considered offensive. not
sure how but probably has something to do with american sexual repression.

of course there are no gay beaches, but clearly there is an
advantage to marketing it that way. a gay man who wants to wear a
speedo covered with a pink sarong and has every right to, is not going
to have a great time in Belmar. 

While I understand the need to make it clear that the beach isn't
gay, I hope AP always provides a space for gay people to be as
openly gay as they want. Not all spaces/beaches provide that freedom.
The suggestion that the Road Trip party needed shielding made me
nervous. Homophobia is alive and kicking and I have seen it in AP. I
can just hear some Middletown housewife commenting that she didn't
feel comfortable at the beach here because her kid saw two guys
kissing. If businesses or individuals even come close to caving to
that kind of offense, I hope the gay community goes ape shit. I will.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, agranito2002 anthonyg1...@...
wrote:

 I will try to explain from my point of view and you all happen to be 
 discussing our key words Anthony Granito and my business partner 
 Anthony Newarski.  We are not in advertising; we sell real estate in 
 Asbury Park and want nothing more for this town to succeed.  I can 
 not tell you how Google adds banners/advertisements to pages after 
 someone does a search.  What I can tell you is we picked and pay for 
 a handful of key words one being gay one being beach another 
 being Asbury Park. If someone searches using Google Asbury Park 
 beach or Asbury Park gay beach you may find our servlets: 
 PhillytoAsbury, DCtoAsbury and others promote Real Estate in Asbury 
 Park. NOTHING on them talk about Hot Gay Beaches, it may be how 
 someone searches and how the engine puts the words together, I 
 really can't tell you how it all works.  Please stop being over 
 sensitive to EVERYTHING that happens in this town, we are all here 
 trying to help our community. If it is offensive to someone, Sorry, 
 it is not meant to be.
 Thank You, justifiedright for seeing it for what it really is (and 
 going to the servlet to find out what it really is promoting): 
 It's a good ad seeking a certain buyer. Pretty smart.
 As for whether there is a Gay Beach - let's call it sales puffery.
 
 Anthony Granito
 600 8th Ave
 (pls if you would like to discuss and not bore our online community 
 with this, pls use our personal email ateamnjrealt...@... 
 and both AnthonyN and I will receive it)
 
 Thank you and have a nice day!






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[AsburyPark] speaking of gayness...

[Gabrielle Obre]

The other night on the bike at the gym I was flipping channels and
stumbled on some talk show. I think it was a jersey channel. There was
a woman being interviewed who was claiming that one of the decision
makers at the DSM (big psych manual that categorizes psych diseases)
was now coming out and saying that homosexuality should be included
(as a disease). She was claiming that cases of homosexuality have
been cured through therapy.

I was working hard and I think seinfeld was competing so i don't
remember the pertinent details. Would really love to get more details.
If anyone remembers it please...

can someone ask the gay list for me?




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[AsburyPark] Re: speaking of gayness...

[Gabrielle Obre]

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakd...@... wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleobre@ 
 wrote:
  She was claiming that cases of homosexuality have been cured 
 through therapy. 
 
 How many?

I dont' know...thats the thing, I need to find it again. I am sure
that was her claim and that it involved the DSM categorization. I
can't believe I didn't make a note of it. I will spend some time over
the wknd to google like a maniac. But I would love if someone else
caught it.

 
 then so should being straight, gay, boring or married or single be a 
 diease.

yeah, thats what is so funny. but ideology can make us believe
anything. I dont' actually doubt that there are people who go into
therapy identifying as same sex loving and change. Gender and
sexuality are much more fluid than we like to think. Lots of women
waffle in the bi scene I imagine.



 Many therapists need therapy themselves.

Amen! They are some of the sickest mental cases out there. and they
have savior complexes to boot. But there are also some great ones.





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[AsburyPark] Re: speaking of gayness...

[Gabrielle Obre]

ohhh...I truly love the human body in all its manifestations. Its our
media that makes us think there are some that are beautiful and others
not.

I saw this great postcard on a site called postsecrets, a really cool
site where people send in cards with their secrets and they get posted
on sundays. some are disturbing, but always great naked human stuff.

anyway,,,my favorite is a photo of a big bellied man in a speedo on a
crowded beach. written on it was

1. I am the fat man who wears speedos in public
2. I don't care what you think
3. I do it because it makes me feel sexy

Bravo!. I actually have the photo saved on my ipod.



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakd...@... wrote:

 ---most american males don't look that great in speedos...but according 
 to women who were checking out the beach at RTrip - there were quite a 
 few men who looked pretty good - no way...
 
 ...most americans look like out of shape americans in other countries 
 wearing our american bathing trunks and drinking beer.
 
 dad, don't you dare wear that...






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[AsburyPark] Re: Lost 3 Businesses

[Gabrielle Obre]

thank you! I have been thinking about writing a tirade about this. I
have gotten slightly bashed on this list and the politics list for
having the gall to enjoy the businesses in my community. I have
actually had fun (gasp, no) at some of them.

sorry, don't mean to sound harsh to the fun haters, but small
businesses are essential. I guarantee you all send lots of cash to
giant corporations. This is your community, spend it here.

once again an organic market would be delicious, MM? can you work on
that? like a natures corner or deans, or second nature, just a dream.




--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, jandlinap jandli...@... wrote:

 We lost espheria... the front store in the arcade...circut crusin...I
 i heard wish you were here is closing...we need to all make an extra 
 effort to shop and dine in town.. its only going to benefit us and 
 our property values in the long run
 
 jeffrey
 1701 Park Ave
 
 
 
 
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Allan Peterson nnjallans1@ 
 wrote:
 
  In the Tom Gilmour email today he said we loast 3 businesses over 
 the holidays and gained 2.� Anyone knows who we lost? 
   
  
  

  
  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 






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[AsburyPark] Citizen Service Act

[Gabrielle Obre]

Passing along some info from the Lauren at the Center for Civic
Responsibility.

Happy New Year!  We have big news for Monmouth County.
At last night's County Reorganization meeting, Freeholder Director
Barbara McMorrow announced her plans to roll out our Call to Service
for Monmouth County.  This includes:
1) Citizen Service Act - which creates a public web  hard copy
directory of all county boards/commissions and sets up a standard
application process.  Folks will now know what positions  vacancies
exist, and how to apply.

2) Citizen Service Day resolution - which will establish one day a
year to celebrate MC's exemplary residents who serve their communities.
3) Leadership Forums - to be held throughout the County, which will
teach people how to effectively get involved in creating change within
their communities.

This is fantastic because Freeholder McMorrow, and presumptively
Monmouth County's example will likely lead municipalities to launch
their own Calls to Service.  
I am asking that you check your schedule for 2 upcoming dates.  We
need to provide the Freeholders with the support they need to get this
done.  And to show them that the citizenry wants to see a Call to
Service in Monmouth County.  We were able to move Pay-to-Play Reform
this way.  And while this initiative does not warrant the same time
and resource commitment to get done, we still need to give a show of
support.


Please consider joining me in attending this Thursday's 2pm Freeholder
workshop meeting at the Hall of Records (2nd floor, Meeting Rm) in
Freehold.  Freeholder McMorrow plans to introduce the Call to Service
package at this meeting.

We will then need to show the same, or more support at Thurs 1/22's
regular Freeholder meeting (7pm Hall of Records, 2nd floor, Meeting
Rm, Freehold) where the package will presumptively be adopted - if all
goes well!


Let me know if you are available to come to the meetings.  And spread
the word.  This is something important to the citizens of Monmouth
County, and we can prove so by showing up!

lau...@jointhecampaign.com





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[AsburyPark] Re: Citizen Service Act

[Gabrielle Obre]

New Dates

OK, I just got a call from Susan at the Freeholder's office, and it
looks like with all of the commotion of the reorg meeting last night,
they didn't get the Call to Service documents into the Freeholders'
packets.   So it is being pushed back 2 weeks.  Nothing will be
happening this Thursday.  Instead:

Call to Service introduction:  Thurs 1/22 @ 2pm, Hall of Records, 2nd
floor
Call to Service adoption:  Thurs 2/12 @ 7pm, Hall of Records, 2nd floor

Let me know if these dates/times work for you.   Cheers, Lauren

-- 
Lauren Skowronski
State Campaign Director
Citizens' Campaign
450 Main Street, 2nd floor
Metuchen, NJ 08840
P: 732.548.9798 x2
F: 732.548.9298
www.jointhecampaign.com

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
change the world.  Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. - M. Mead


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre
gabrielleo...@... wrote:

 Passing along some info from the Lauren at the Center for Civic
 Responsibility.
 
 Happy New Year!  We have big news for Monmouth County.
 At last night's County Reorganization meeting, Freeholder Director
 Barbara McMorrow announced her plans to roll out our Call to Service
 for Monmouth County.  This includes:
 1) Citizen Service Act - which creates a public web  hard copy
 directory of all county boards/commissions and sets up a standard
 application process.  Folks will now know what positions  vacancies
 exist, and how to apply.
 
 2) Citizen Service Day resolution - which will establish one day a
 year to celebrate MC's exemplary residents who serve their communities.
 3) Leadership Forums - to be held throughout the County, which will
 teach people how to effectively get involved in creating change within
 their communities.
 
 This is fantastic because Freeholder McMorrow, and presumptively
 Monmouth County's example will likely lead municipalities to launch
 their own Calls to Service.  
 I am asking that you check your schedule for 2 upcoming dates.  We
 need to provide the Freeholders with the support they need to get this
 done.  And to show them that the citizenry wants to see a Call to
 Service in Monmouth County.  We were able to move Pay-to-Play Reform
 this way.  And while this initiative does not warrant the same time
 and resource commitment to get done, we still need to give a show of
 support.
 
 
 Please consider joining me in attending this Thursday's 2pm Freeholder
 workshop meeting at the Hall of Records (2nd floor, Meeting Rm) in
 Freehold.  Freeholder McMorrow plans to introduce the Call to Service
 package at this meeting.
 
 We will then need to show the same, or more support at Thurs 1/22's
 regular Freeholder meeting (7pm Hall of Records, 2nd floor, Meeting
 Rm, Freehold) where the package will presumptively be adopted - if all
 goes well!
 
 
 Let me know if you are available to come to the meetings.  And spread
 the word.  This is something important to the citizens of Monmouth
 County, and we can prove so by showing up!
 
 lau...@...






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[AsburyPark] Re: Hot Gay Beach

[Gabrielle Obre]

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakd...@... wrote:

 Then why did they block the Road Trip party on 5th ave beach from the 
 general public view
 
 Like it's ok to have this gay event on the beach - but we might 
 offend people - alot of people.
 
 Or make those that are wondering what the heck is going on stand on 
 benches to peak over the blue wall...
 

I didn't get the feeling that the blocking had anything to do with it
being a primarily gay event. I thought it was an attempt to get people
to pay to get in. If it was in fear of offending, lord help them and
the potential offendees. 

I always considered 5th ave the gay beach, and I mean that as merely
a description of a beach where a lot of the gay community hung out.
But 5th ave seemed pretty family full this summer.

I sorta sense a watering down of the fun, sexy gay vibe in AP. That
would be sad.





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[AsburyPark] Re: Hot Gay Beach

[Gabrielle Obre]

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakd...@... wrote:


 
 I took it, as did many other, as a shield to block the view of speedo 
 beach. 


that can't be it. ive seen cheezy gogo dancers on the bb stage with a
bunch of middle aged men looking like they didn't have enough fun in
their youth. I'd like, way prefer my kids see men in speedos getting
their groove on than candidates for viagra ogling go go dancers.




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[AsburyPark] Re: you say tomato... I say.....

[Gabrielle Obre]

wow you guys are depressing. i think you need to lay off the bad news
for a while, or jump on some anti depressants. 

whenever I get depressed, I think up superheroes. or do some mantra
meditation. simply repeat something like healing, love and light or
thank you over and over. Love, Jesus, healing, gratitude. Ya know,
anything positive.

I am well aware of the ugliness that lurks in our government. It has
nothing to do with American government, it has to do with human
beings. We are terrified of death, think being better, richer, more
armed, smarter etc will save us. it won't. humans (mostly men) abuse
their power over others to prove...well all sorts of idiotic things.
and I am ashamed that a good chunk of my compatriots with ovaries
continue to sleep and procreate with these emotionally stunted runts
while they perfect indirect aggression, the female brutality.  

i recently heard a man dis darwin's survival of the fittest. Its
supposed to be survival of those who cooperate. 

there are good things happening in the world. whats that story about
the good and evil monster? the one that grows is the one you feed with
your attention? 




--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, marioa...@... wrote:

 Be careful about doing anything about it.
  
 You might be Connellizedhttp://tinyurl.com/6vdjud 
  
 formerly known as Wellstoned:   http://tinyurl.com/7xrrro 
  
  
  
 In a message dated 1/1/2009 6:46:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
 jerseyshorej...@... writes:
 
 What  would you have me do  about it?
 
 On Jan 1, 2009, at 2:16 PM,  Gabrielle Obre wrote:
 
 so what are you gonna do about  it?
 In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jersey Shore  John
 jerseyshorejohn@ wrote:
 
 Unless it's stolen.
 
 On  Dec 30, 2008, at 6:28 PM, Gabrielle Obre wrote:
 
 its not thanks to Bush.  Its thanks to We the  People.
 
 
 **New year...new news.  Be the first to know what is making 
 headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom0026)
 
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[AsburyPark] Re: you say tomato... I say.....

[Gabrielle Obre]

one of the saddest stories of abortion i know involved a woman who got
pregnant and her boyfriend bullied her into aborting.



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
justifiedri...@... wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
 gabrielleobre@ wrote:
 
  humans (mostly men) abuse
  their power over others 
 
 Abortion






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[AsburyPark] Re: you say tomato... I say.....

[Gabrielle Obre]

i was thinking you were countering my thought that men are usually the
abusers of power, not talking about abortion in general. its an ugly
thing for sure, but we won't solve the problem of unwanted pregnancies
until women are more empowered in their sexuality. we need real sex
education for teens, not abstinence oaths.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
justifiedri...@... wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
 gabrielleobre@ wrote:
 
  one of the saddest stories of abortion i know involved a woman who 
 got
  pregnant and her boyfriend bullied her into aborting.
 
 Are you suggesting that one story should be what we judge, and not the 
 45 million discretionary killings?






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[AsburyPark] Re: you say tomato... I say.....

[Gabrielle Obre]

Does being mature include whining that there is nothing to be done,
and denying our own participation?


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jersey Shore John
jerseyshorej...@... wrote:

 Facing up to reality is not a symptom of depression, but of maturity.
 
 On Jan 2, 2009, at 9:04 AM, Gabrielle Obre wrote:
 
  wow you guys are depressing. i think you need to lay off the bad news
  for a while, or jump on some anti depressants.
 
  whenever I get depressed, I think up superheroes. or do some mantra
  meditation. simply repeat something like healing, love and light or
  thank you over and over. Love, Jesus, healing, gratitude. Ya know,
  anything positive.
 
  I am well aware of the ugliness that lurks in our government. It has
  nothing to do with American government, it has to do with human
  beings. We are terrified of death, think being better, richer, more
  armed, smarter etc will save us. it won't. humans (mostly men) abuse
  their power over others to prove...well all sorts of idiotic things.
  and I am ashamed that a good chunk of my compatriots with ovaries
  continue to sleep and procreate with these emotionally stunted runts
  while they perfect indirect aggression, the female brutality.
 
  i recently heard a man dis darwin's survival of the fittest. Its
  supposed to be survival of those who cooperate.
 
  there are good things happening in the world. whats that story about
  the good and evil monster? the one that grows is the one you feed with
  your attention?
 
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, MarioAPNJ@ wrote:
  
   Be careful about doing anything about it.
  
   You might be Connellized http://tinyurl.com/6vdjud
  
   formerly known as Wellstoned: http://tinyurl.com/7xrrro
  
  
  
   In a message dated 1/1/2009 6:46:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
   jerseyshorejohn@ writes:
  
   What would you have me do about it?
  
   On Jan 1, 2009, at 2:16 PM, Gabrielle Obre wrote:
  
   so what are you gonna do about it?
   In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jersey Shore John
   jerseyshorejohn@ wrote:
  
   Unless it's stolen.
  
   On Dec 30, 2008, at 6:28 PM, Gabrielle Obre wrote:
  
   its not thanks to Bush. Its thanks to We the People.
  
  
   **New year...new news. Be the first to know what is  
  making
   headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom0026)
  
  
   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  
 
 
  
 
 
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[AsburyPark] Re: you say tomato... I say.....

[Gabrielle Obre]

I never said alone Tommy Fox. I know women abuse power. I am one and
have spent lots of time around them.  I don't wish to discuss abortion
with you here. thats not why people come here.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
justifiedri...@... wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleobre@ 
 wrote:
 
  i was thinking you were countering my thought that men are usually 
 the
  abusers of power, not talking about abortion in general. its an ugly
  thing for sure, but we won't solve the problem of unwanted 
 pregnancies
  until women are more empowered in their sexuality. we need real sex
  education for teens, not abstinence oaths.
 
 Abuse of power was precisely the point so lets not change the topic to 
 abortion in general.  
 
 45 million killings of innocents.  Thats more than Hitler Stalin and 
 Mao combined.
 
 So yes, I counter your assertion that men alone abuse power over others 
 when they have it.






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[AsburyPark] Re: Is there a health clinic in AP?

[Gabrielle Obre]

Thanks. i have a NY massage license and assuming all goes as planned,
i will be in nursing school next month. I was wondering what was
available to the community. I would think AP would have one. thanks
again for the info


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, denise denisem...@... wrote:

 There was one in Neptune but I think they had to relocate since they
had a fire.  The walk-in clinic located in Shoprite is on a sliding
fee scale.  Call the Monmouth County Health Department (732) 431-7456
for a list of other local free or low cost clinics.  There is one in
Freehold that is similar to the Parker House in Red Bank
 
 
 
 
 
 From: Gabrielle Obre gabrielleo...@...
 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Thursday, January 1, 2009 2:13:16 PM
 Subject: [AsburyPark] Is there a health clinic in AP?
 
 
 Like the Parker in RB
 
  
 
 
   
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[AsburyPark] Re: you say tomato... I say.....

[Gabrielle Obre]

acknowledging it is very important. understanding that we all
participate and then therefore are responsible to at least discuss
potential solutions, alternative perspectives etc.

unless of course you don't use oil, live electrically off the grid,
grow all your own food, make your clothes and there are no products
from major corporations in your home. you don't use poisonous
chemicals to clean your home and if you eat meat it is sustainably
produced.

somehow i doubt that is the case.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jersey Shore John
jerseyshorej...@... wrote:

 I had no participation. Never voted for Bush and if you think  
 acknowledging the disaster of the Bush years is whining, well...  
 that's you.
 
 On Jan 2, 2009, at 11:11 AM, Gabrielle Obre wrote:
 
  Does being mature include whining that there is nothing to be done,
  and denying our own participation?
 
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jersey Shore John
  jerseyshorejohn@ wrote:
  
   Facing up to reality is not a symptom of depression, but of  
  maturity.
  
   On Jan 2, 2009, at 9:04 AM, Gabrielle Obre wrote:
  
wow you guys are depressing. i think you need to lay off the  
  bad news
for a while, or jump on some anti depressants.
   
whenever I get depressed, I think up superheroes. or do some  
  mantra
meditation. simply repeat something like healing, love and  
  light or
thank you over and over. Love, Jesus, healing, gratitude. Ya  
  know,
anything positive.
   
I am well aware of the ugliness that lurks in our government.  
  It has
nothing to do with American government, it has to do with human
beings. We are terrified of death, think being better, richer,  
  more
armed, smarter etc will save us. it won't. humans (mostly men)  
  abuse
their power over others to prove...well all sorts of idiotic  
  things.
and I am ashamed that a good chunk of my compatriots with ovaries
continue to sleep and procreate with these emotionally stunted  
  runts
while they perfect indirect aggression, the female brutality.
   
i recently heard a man dis darwin's survival of the fittest. Its
supposed to be survival of those who cooperate.
   
there are good things happening in the world. whats that story  
  about
the good and evil monster? the one that grows is the one you  
  feed with
your attention?
   
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, MarioAPNJ@ wrote:

 Be careful about doing anything about it.

 You might be Connellized http://tinyurl.com/6vdjud

 formerly known as Wellstoned: http://tinyurl.com/7xrrro



 In a message dated 1/1/2009 6:46:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
 jerseyshorejohn@ writes:

 What would you have me do about it?

 On Jan 1, 2009, at 2:16 PM, Gabrielle Obre wrote:

 so what are you gonna do about it?
 In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jersey Shore John
 jerseyshorejohn@ wrote:

 Unless it's stolen.

 On Dec 30, 2008, at 6:28 PM, Gabrielle Obre wrote:

 its not thanks to Bush. Its thanks to We the People.


 **New year...new news. Be the first to know what is
making
 headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom0026)


 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

   
   
   
  
  
  
   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  
 
 
  
 
 
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[AsburyPark] Is there a health clinic in AP?

[Gabrielle Obre]

Like the Parker in RB




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[AsburyPark] Re: you say tomato... I say.....

[Gabrielle Obre]

nice way to play the victim JJ. so what are you gonna do about it?



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jersey Shore John
jerseyshorej...@... wrote:

 Unless it's stolen.
 
 On Dec 30, 2008, at 6:28 PM, Gabrielle Obre wrote:
 
  its not thanks to Bush. Its thanks to We the People.
 
  George Bernard Shaw: Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be
  governed no better than we deserve.
 
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jersey Shore John
  jerseyshorejohn@ wrote:
  
   That's because we live in the Lite-version of a fascist state,
   thanks to Bush: The enabling media, the greedy corporations and a
   neutered government, all synchronized.
  
   On Dec 30, 2008, at 4:33 PM, Gabrielle Obre wrote:
  
I don't think the TCN is a real news paper. But the Press is a  
  joke
and people consider it a news outlet which is disturbing. Can't  
  say
much about the Coaster, everytime I look at it i see pretty  
  vanilla,
PR type stories. our area is completely malnourished in terms of
thought provoking, taking the powers/people to task journalism.  
  But
then again look at what is mainstream.
   
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, traderdube traderdube@
wrote:

 Has any one of these pundits looked at the TCN? It is not a
newspaper. It has zero
 journalistic qualitities. For every ten ads there an opinion  
  essay
by underpaid writers. This
 nonsense is an affront to the Caroll family and the Coaster  
  which is
a true newspaper with
 real reporters and real news and real ad rates.
 This is a joke and should be dismissed as a joke.
 No offense to Dan, he should run with the publicity and kudos  
  to him
for figuring out how to
 take advantage of of niche market but to compare him to other  
  true
newspapers like the AP
 Press or the Coaster is blatantly wrong.

   
   
   
  
  
  
   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  
 
 
  
 
 
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[AsburyPark] Re: you say tomato... I say.....

[Gabrielle Obre]

I don't think the TCN is a real news paper. But the Press is a joke
and people consider it a news outlet which is disturbing. Can't say
much about the Coaster, everytime I look at it i see pretty vanilla,
PR type stories. our area is completely malnourished in terms of
thought provoking, taking the powers/people to task journalism. But
then again look at what is mainstream.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, traderdube traderd...@... wrote:

 Has any one of these pundits looked at the TCN? It is not a
newspaper. It has zero 
 journalistic qualitities. For every ten ads there an opinion essay
by underpaid writers. This 
 nonsense is an affront to the Caroll family and the Coaster which is
a true newspaper with 
 real reporters and real news and real ad rates.
 This is a joke and should be dismissed as a joke.
 No offense to Dan, he should run with the publicity and kudos to him
for figuring out how to 
 take advantage of of niche market but to compare him to other true
newspapers like the AP 
 Press or the Coaster is blatantly wrong.






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[AsburyPark] Re: you say tomato... I say.....

[Gabrielle Obre]

its not thanks to Bush. Its thanks to We the People. 

George Bernard Shaw: Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be
governed no better than we deserve.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jersey Shore John
jerseyshorej...@... wrote:

 That's because we live in the Lite-version of a fascist state,  
 thanks to Bush: The enabling media, the greedy corporations and a  
 neutered government, all synchronized.
 
 On Dec 30, 2008, at 4:33 PM, Gabrielle Obre wrote:
 
  I don't think the TCN is a real news paper. But the Press is a joke
  and people consider it a news outlet which is disturbing. Can't say
  much about the Coaster, everytime I look at it i see pretty vanilla,
  PR type stories. our area is completely malnourished in terms of
  thought provoking, taking the powers/people to task journalism. But
  then again look at what is mainstream.
 
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, traderdube traderdube@  
  wrote:
  
   Has any one of these pundits looked at the TCN? It is not a
  newspaper. It has zero
   journalistic qualitities. For every ten ads there an opinion essay
  by underpaid writers. This
   nonsense is an affront to the Caroll family and the Coaster which is
  a true newspaper with
   real reporters and real news and real ad rates.
   This is a joke and should be dismissed as a joke.
   No offense to Dan, he should run with the publicity and kudos to him
  for figuring out how to
   take advantage of of niche market but to compare him to other true
  newspapers like the AP
   Press or the Coaster is blatantly wrong.
  
 
 
  
 
 
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[AsburyPark] Re: Is the Glass Half Empty or Half Full of Home Buyers?

[Gabrielle Obre]

I seem to remember something about people living longer in cities,
like NY. The older people there, because they saw others in their
community daily, lived healthier lives. They didn't need to drive places. 

One of the things that is so great about ap is that it is a sort of
middle ground. we have space, beautiful wide streets, but a city vibe
as well. all sorts of people walking, some you know from seeing over
the years, they are people in your life, part of your world and there
are many more in close proximity than if i were living in most of
middletown.

i love the intimacy that is forced on us when we live close together.
easier to feel that your family is wider than once assumed. It can
also be a pain in the ass as family can be. 

thanks for the mention of a mix of incomes being healthier. That seems
obvious to me, but i don't think that is a common understanding. we've
got lots of issues surrounding income. We are way too infatuated with
the monied folk.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, marioa...@... wrote:

 In a message dated 12/30/2008 8:42:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
 oakd...@... writes:
 
 My  daigheter called it the stepford wives...
 
 There's lots of communities  like that - you come in, buy a small
 condo either as a single or new  couple, move on to the next size, then
 the next, then the retirement home,  assisted living, full nursing
 care, hospice, then your final resting place.  Not for me either.
  
 ===
  
 Stepford Communities is great.  Seeking the bubble reputation.
  
 Long before that 1972 novel, Shakespeare nailed it with his Seven
Ages of  
 Man:  
 
 
 And one man in his  time plays many parts,
 His acts being seven ages. At first, the  infant,
 Mewling and puking in the nurse's arms.
 Then the whining  schoolboy, with his satchel
 And shining morning face, creeping like  snail
 Unwillingly to school. And then the lover,
 Sighing like furnace,  with a woeful ballad
 Made to his mistress' eyebrow. Then a soldier,
 Full  of strange oaths and bearded like the pard,
 Jealous in honour, sudden and  quick in quarrel,
 Seeking the bubble reputation
 Even in the canon's mouth.  And then the justice,
 In fair round belly with good capon lined,
 With eyes  severe and beard of formal cut,
 Full of wise saws and modern  instances;
 And so he plays his part. The sixth age shifts
 Into the lean  and slippered pantaloon
 With spectacles on nose and pouch on side;
 His  youthful hose, well saved, a world too wide
 For his shrunk shank, and his big  manly voice,
 Turning again toward childish treble, pipes
 And whistles in  his sound. Last scene of all,
 That ends this strange eventful history,
 Is  second childishness and mere oblivion,
 Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste,  sans everything.
  
  
 Cheers!;-)
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 **One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, 
 Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. 

(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dpicid=aolcom40vanityncid=emlcntaolcom0025)
 
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[AsburyPark] Re: Is the Glass Half Empty or Half Full of Home Buyers?

[Gabrielle Obre]

i see myself sitting on a bench on the bw checking out old men. livin
on my 2/3, if i haven't figured out how to live simply and joyfully by
that age, i don't deserve joy.

nothing dirty about the appreciation of youthful beauty. Being able to
see the beauty in age makes life a little sweeter.

happy new year



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakd...@... wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre
 gabrielleobre@ wrote:
 
  I seem to remember something about people living longer in cities,
  like NY. 
 
 I picture myself retired looking at the ocean and pool. Hopefully
 there will be some 20-40 somethings on the beach/pool that I can just
 look at and they can look at some dirty old man. It looks like Hugh
 Hefner is still alive.  
 
 You can't retire in NJ and stay so easy. Unless you retire with 2/3 of
 your salary maybe you can.
 
 Sitting on your rear no matter where you are is no good either.






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[AsburyPark] Re: YOU, That's Who!

[Gabrielle Obre]

Bravo Sharon. That was a beauty. 

Mike, obedience is un-American. 

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sharon_b283 sharon_b...@... wrote:

 Ditto!  If you have LOVE, as you claim to profess, you should have
 been out trying to do a citizen's arrest against Cheney, the ultimate
 draft dodger, who when questioned about his NON service, said, I
 had better things to do or his buddy Dubya, coke-snorting, pot
 smoking, alcoholic, AWOL, party-boy, from the Air National Guard, so
 he didn't HAVE to do Viet-Nam, got a pass from his diplomat/past
 CIA-Director/past-POTUS, father!
 
 Yeah, the past 8 years of a Supreme Court TAKE-OVER, of what passed
 for a democracy!  When you profess to protect the Constitution, then
 shred it, start 2 illegal wars, run up the largest economic deficit,
 that the Debt Clock, doean't have enough ZEROES for, what do you call
 that?  Patriotism?  Buy 3 tickets to Iraq, so that the three of you
 can stand trial for high crimes and misdeameanors, better yet, TREASON
 against the citizens of the United States, YOU!
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Mike Hemeon tvnetdude2000@ wrote:
 
  Unlike you two I don't hate the country. Whenever you bash it or
 spew your anti-American views you will you will get a response. 
  I am surpised such left wing crazies such as yourselves aren't out
 celebrating the winter solstice.
  
  Well it is a good thing the war will be over soon. What he is
 sending 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan this summer? Want to see the
 left protest their boy's decision to do that. Might need a draft that
 would be good to see what some of you sweet asses are really like.
  
  We are watching Bill Clinton's third term. No change here.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  From: sharon_b283 sharon_b283@
  To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 11:24:17 AM
  Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Humbug to such posts
  
  
  Mario,
  Thanks for standing up as usual! Misanthrope is too nice a word for
  the resident TROLL! 
  
  So TROLL, about that 0ne-way ticket; cash it in and purchase a one-way
  ticket to IDIOTSVILLE, for YOURSELF, SCROOGE!
  
  --- In asburyp...@yahoogro ups.com, MarioAPNJ@ . wrote:
  
   More malevolent Humbug (see below) from one of the few remaining 
   misanthropes posting here, always trying to poison the well.
   
   All the malice like that reminds me of Lee Atwater's words, a month
  before 
   he died:
   
   My illness helped me to see that what was missing in society is
  what was 
   missing in me: a little heart, a lot of brotherhood. ...
   
   Lots of other historical changes-of-heart, from George Wallace and
  Trent 
   Lott to Ken Mehlman.
   
   I guess they all finally realized that Luke added
   
   to Men of Good Will to
   
   And on Earth, Peace
   
   
   
   In a message dated 12/20/2008 5:24:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
   tvnetdude2000@ ... writes:
   
   The unions are the reason Obama is in office you will see how much
  he throws 
   thbeir way when he is in office. Don't expect any change he has all
  insiders 
   in his administration. He will be a little lighter in the wallet
  Blago got 
   caught selling his Senate seat no cut for him.
   
   There was always a lot of crime by those left behind becauee they
  are owed, 
   they are entitled. This is true even when the economy is good.
  Haven't read 
   anything on this board about those that were left behind that were
  mugging 
   people in AP during the black out. The greedy were stung by Madoff.
  He will be 
   sorry the people he crossed will kill him.
   
   You don't like Condi Rice because she can speak English and can
  complete a 
   sentence without throwing an Ax or a duh in there. The same is
  true of 
   Colin Powell neither of which you can hold a candle. Maybe Bush
  should have 
   selected Fat Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson they would have
  represented the US much 
   better. Maybe Jesse Jackson Jr could have bought the seat like he
  tried to 
   do in Chicago. 
   
   Yes indeed people elected Obama because of his vast experience
  after all he 
   was a communite organizer. 
   
   All I can say is I hope some of you, or your families, cross paths
  with the 
   people that are released from Gitmo. Probably the last thing you
  will see 
   before the end. 
   
   America is all about money. Work on getting some instead of whining
  about 
   it. When Obama is president who will you complain about? Blacks are
  the only 
   minority in the country just ask them. That one way ticket is still
  here 
   waiting. How about Africa? They don't care if you are black there
  they will kill 
   you anyway. Still hating the country.
   
    **One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL
 Mail, 
   Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. 
  
  (http://www.aol. com/?optin= new-dpicid= aolcom40vanity
 ncid=emlcntaolco m0025)
   
   
   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  
  
 

[AsburyPark] Merry Holidays

[Gabrielle Obre]

Wishing you all a joyous new year. 

Finding this site was like a gift to me. Two guys traveled the world
collecting music and wisdom which they have documented on a cd and
dvd. Lots of clips on the site and great world music on the home site.


http://www.whataboutme.tv/#home

Gabrielle




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[AsburyPark] Re: AC - Asbury Park Parallels

[Gabrielle Obre]

I'm not surprised you don't get my ramblings.

I was responding to Jack. He regularly expresses concern about
materialism/over consumption and the like. Commodity Fetishism is a
term coined by Marx to describe a part of the behavior that seems to
concern Jack. It was helpful to me to read about it so I wanted to
share it with him. Great thinkers, different ideas often shed light on
issues. Carl Jung gives me some comfort, Paul Krugman...I like to share.

yes, I regularly have fun. I enjoyed a little of the Cameo last night
a little of Paradise.  Sometimes I don't have fun. Often the day is
filled with the ordinary concerns of feeding, clothing and sheltering
myself. 

yeah i should probably pay more attention, though i don't care about
the time lines, AP continues to get more beautiful all the time. The
lights are really pretty right now. i would care about gross
malfeasance, which may or may not be happening. its jersey after all.
its the US after all. the entire planet is in debt so 13 million in AP
isn't going to make me lose sleep. i'm not gonna freak over the budget
when few others seem to be. did you read it?

The things that have concerned me have been the community. the lower
income people. Is there enough care and reverence for them. I have
learned that there is a huge amount of community care in this town. I
feel pretty confident that someone doing the best that they can with
shitty circumstances is cared for here. Is that care the best it could
be? probably not. Our entire approach toward social justice could use
a revolution. I loathe the help approach, I think people help
others so that they can feel better about themselves as opposed to
seeing others as ourselves. its a big question, how best do we serve.
you could have a lengthy series of discussions on it, which I would
love. I am still fantasizing about idea festivals.

I just care about different things than you. and I am in love with AP.
Maybe you have difficulty with love. Maybe your sad because you don't
love your town. Like one of those people in a passionless relationship
enviously watching a juicy couple dig one another. AP is the hot
couple. You and your town appear to be loveless. yeah we have our
issues and you and your mystery town have yours. 

i don't actually think you are a genuine person coming from a genuine
place. some kind of schemer stoking shit perhaps. who knows. im gonna
get back to lovin the town i live in. warts and all. thats what love
is newbee. and the world could could use lots more of it.








--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, New Beetoap newbeet...@... wrote:

 So..., Have you asked any questions lately? Or are you still too busy 
 just having fun and not caring about timetables?
 
 You chew me out for not being local yet I seem to care more about 
 whats going on than you do. I dont drive a mercedes BTW. Were you 
 just blowing smoke when you asked about the budget, not a peep since 
 the information was posted.
 
 How about it? Some questions about why a 7 year redevelopment has put 
 the city 13 million in hock? Instead of rambling about... well I cant 
 really figure out what you ramble about.
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
 gabrielleobre@ wrote:
 
  
   --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote:
   
Isn't this a symptom of a cultures reliance on a consumer 
 mentality?
America is all about money. 
  
  google commodity fetishism. read guy debord's society of the
  spectacle, you can read it online. i don't know what it means to be 
 a
  marxist, i enjoy my ipod touch, my poison free cleaning products and
  organic lotions, but he knew what was coming. people think anything
  can be bought. women turn themselves into products all the time. and
  think their products make them. 
  
  a few years ago my then young beauty of a dog was leaning out the
  window of my car. an man in a mercedes pulled up. how much for 
 her?
  i explained she wasn't for sale. aw come on, everybody's got a
  price. clearly the woman in the passenger seat did.
  
  what's real is rising. you gotta remember we live in a county of
  staggering wealth. as long as people have their hundred grand coming
  in, they aren't gonna question anything. we aren't exactly swimming 
 in
  a community pool of extraordinary thinking. pretty mainstream TV
  thinking going on here. work, spawn, consume and compare is pretty
  much the extent of most peoples' existence.
  
  as for the internet instead of sex...and if it was the same poll I 
 saw
  it was the women opting out...maybe they are watching youporn. or 
 more
  likely they are in a relationship, the intention of which was not to
  have a lover, it was to be a couple in a couple obsessed culture, 
 not
  to connect the masculine and feminine in a fun and delicious way.
  we're still too repressed to have that as an intent. 
  
  there are some thinkers that connect sexual repression/shame with
  fascism. 
  
  late capitalism. we can

[AsburyPark] Re: AC - Asbury Park Parallels

[Gabrielle Obre]

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote:
 
  Isn't this a symptom of a cultures reliance on a consumer mentality?
  America is all about money. 

google commodity fetishism. read guy debord's society of the
spectacle, you can read it online. i don't know what it means to be a
marxist, i enjoy my ipod touch, my poison free cleaning products and
organic lotions, but he knew what was coming. people think anything
can be bought. women turn themselves into products all the time. and
think their products make them. 

a few years ago my then young beauty of a dog was leaning out the
window of my car. an man in a mercedes pulled up. how much for her?
i explained she wasn't for sale. aw come on, everybody's got a
price. clearly the woman in the passenger seat did.

what's real is rising. you gotta remember we live in a county of
staggering wealth. as long as people have their hundred grand coming
in, they aren't gonna question anything. we aren't exactly swimming in
a community pool of extraordinary thinking. pretty mainstream TV
thinking going on here. work, spawn, consume and compare is pretty
much the extent of most peoples' existence.

as for the internet instead of sex...and if it was the same poll I saw
it was the women opting out...maybe they are watching youporn. or more
likely they are in a relationship, the intention of which was not to
have a lover, it was to be a couple in a couple obsessed culture, not
to connect the masculine and feminine in a fun and delicious way.
we're still too repressed to have that as an intent. 

there are some thinkers that connect sexual repression/shame with
fascism. 

late capitalism. we can move to conscious capitalism. just a choice. 






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[AsburyPark] Re: Happy Turkey Day..

[Gabrielle Obre]

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 And that is it, I guess. Ones perception/interpretation is based upon
 ones experience and knowledge base.
 
 I suppose there are more people who are uninterested in the details
 than people who are. That is what keeps the City from excelling, not
 enough 'watch dogs'.
 
 I can only suggest that if you are interested, you learn as much as
 possible about what has passed. Trust knowledgeable sources more and
 look at the broader view.
 
 If uninterested, just keep having fun, but realize that others may
 know more that you.
 
 Werner


perception is based on a whole lot. our subconscious (which makes up
about 90% of our consciousness) has a lot to do with our perception.
which BTW has more to do with our own expectations, ego, history etc
than it has to do with reality.

I know there are many many people who know more than me. I am sure you
know more than me about everything to do with AP. And it is obviously
knowledge that makes you unhappy pretty much all of the time. But as
much as I love this place and yes, enjoy it, AP is pretty minor in my
whole human experience, which is a minor blip in the universe.

I used to be really unhappy werner. couldn't enjoy anything. wallowed
in the negativity of everything that is around us...and there is a
lot. but we aren't here to have our egos fed by proving how right we
are (remember you told me you are NEVER wrong). 

i have gotten to this place where i consider chronically unhappy
people untrustworthy. they don't take responsibility for their
experience, they are incapable of gratitude, of recognizing how
connected they are to the entire universe, not just one little
(probably corrupt) city.

why don't you take a trip to a third world country, or a war zone, see
how huge your problems and the issues of this little city are. sell
one of your, what is it 3 properties? do you have any idea how rich
you are in the scheme of things? do you know what most of your fellow
world inhabitants live on? do you have any idea how few of them own
ANYTHING? while you obsess about lighting and timelines, there are
people without clean drinking water, children being fucked 15 times a
day by some skanks who pay a dollar to do so.

you see, i just can't take timelines all that seriously when my
perception includes those realities. i can't take my own little
grievances seriously when my perception understands those things.

yep, the city and anyone who takes pleasure in your woes are limp
little pricks trying to assert power they have no business having. but
you are a perfect partner for their pathetic dance. and worst of all,
you yourself have been castrated by your inability or unwillingness to
keep up your stupid fucking properties.

i give up on you werner, i think you have a victim complex. try some
meditation. it does wonders for your perception.





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[AsburyPark] Re: Happy Turkey Day..

[Gabrielle Obre]

Werner, you are utilizing selective attention. His disdain for the
progress ap has made fits your needs. that is not to suggest you don't
have valid issues, but you as well seem incapable of enjoying the place. 

All the guy does is make fun of the place, bitch about it etc. Maybe
he mentioned a good time once or twice. He also is regularly
complaining about the content of the list. I was going to dig for
quotes but...search his anonymous tag, you'll find plenty.

Thanks Jennifer, I have been completely dumbfounded by his attention
(mostly negative) to a place that he sees as a failure and doesn't
even visit all that much. pretty interesting behavior.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer jennifernjca@ wrote:
 
  Does anyone else find it curious that newbeetoap seems to be so 
  concerned about a place s/he claims to dislike so much?
 
 ===
 
 I didn't see that in the posts - I recall comment that he had a good
 time -- seems to be just asking questions. That's offensive?
 
 Werner






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[AsburyPark] Re: Happy Turkey Day..

[Gabrielle Obre]

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 I find your comment regarding me - 'fits your needs' - rather bizarre.
 My only need is to get to the facts and make the public's interests a
 priority.
 
 The reality is what it is, to date this redevelopment has been a
 failure. I understand that you personally are having fun, enjoying
 things but that is not the measure of success.

If I were the only one personally enjoying the place, it wouldn't be
busy, obviously. Others are enjoying it. 

 
 Visitors apparently have certain expectations beyond yours based upon
 regional advertising and media reports.

Who are the visitors whose expectations are not being met? Apparently
people keep coming. 

 
 Why are you so quick to shoot down other perceptions which may
 actually by more realistic than your own?

I'm not shooting down, just challenging with my own perceptions.
perhaps you see my perceptions as invalid. When people keep telling me
one thing and my experience is different, what am I supposed to do?



 
 Werner






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[AsburyPark] Re: Happy Turkey Day..

[Gabrielle Obre]

When i saw all your posts yesterday newbee i ignored them. You simply
spew the same old BS over and over. I told myself I wouldn't read your
posts anymore...why would I? It would be like listening to a badly
raised child whine over and over.

We all know you think AP is a joke and a failure. You still haven't
produced the evidence that the redev was supposed to be done by now. 

When I mentioned the wernerization, I was not talking about anything
that happens on the board. The only little man on the board who
criticizes werner is another anonymous tool, maubdy. Apparently
criticizing werner is his/her only ability.

i sincerely doubt there are any powers that be posting here other than
the occasional mention of an event or biz advert. though maubdy may be
a really politically stupid anonymous one.

you don't like it here, so what. don't come. every weekend i am
reminded that lots of other people do love it here. will probably see
the evidence again tonight. your seeming obsession with the place
makes me sad for you. i have wondered what it would be like to ponder
a place i don't live in such a negative manner again and again. 

you feel slighted and misled by marketing? are you just waking up to
being an american? we are lied to and misled every single day of our
lives. being misled about a timeline for a waterfront redevelopment
means nothing to me compared to being misled about a war that has
killed hundreds of thousands of people...

which, Glenn, brings me to the AP/Beirut comparison. everytime i here
some fat and happily ignorant American make that comparison, I wish I
had the power to teleport them to a genuine war zone or third world
country and leave them there for a month. Only a willfully ignorant
American would make that comparison. I used to be one of them.

go find something that brings you pleasure newbee, or do something
about your profound chronic dissatisfaction. you've made your point.
ap doesn't satisfy you. it probably never will.




--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, New Beetoap [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Thats a lot of bunk - major projects like your redevelopment are done 
 all over the place - they dont advertise great success and then dont 
 diliver.
 
 They dont take 7 years to get minimally along either - or lie to the 
 very people they are working for along with the customers they need 
 to attract.
 
 There are contracts, timetables, legal obligations.
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dapawprint dapawprint@ 
 wrote:
  
  Sure, dates have been missed, there are always obstacles to 
 overcome 
  and it all takes time.
 
 
 When I first posted I asked why things were not done on the beach and 
 I got jumped on. Thats got nothing to do with the people on this 
 group. But noone has ever really answered that except to acknowledge 
 it was a marketing ploy/lie.
 
 I think Gab was on the right track in questioning the 'powers in 
 charge'. Thats where the decissions are made but obviously 
 questioners get, as Gab said, 'wernerized'
 
 Seems that most everyone is just happy with the way things are and 
 takes it while AP sinks economically.
 
 I see asking questions as getting to the root of things not as you 
 say degrading the hope of a LOT of very hopeful people.
 
 Geee.. This place is addictive, I think its the disbeleif that a mile 
 of oceanfront could take so long and not feel the wrath of the 
 taxpayers. 
 
  
  I am hoping that you realize that when you are critical of Asbury 
  Park - specifically in this Yahoo Group that you are not being 
  critical of the Development Team or the City - you are being 
 critical 
  of the residents and the fans of Asbury Park.
  
  The majority of the residents of Asbury Park, until very recently, 
  lived in a city which was spiraling into decline. When you post 
 here 
  and challenge the milestones (I agree that they are late in 
 coming), 
  you are in a way degrading the hope of a LOT of very hopeful people.
 






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[AsburyPark] Re: Why is it we miss a simple attraction to AP???

[Gabrielle Obre]

I sometimes feel like I live in a different place than some of the
posters. ap has been crazy busy the past few weekends as far as I can
tell, isn't it ALREADY an attraction. Maybe fun is an attraction.
Feels that way to me. Sat nite Stella looked busy, Paradise was packed
and throbbing with dancers. Wonder Bar looked humming, there were cars
all over the place. 

it seems like there are a lot of people on the board trying to eat the
menu instead of the food. instead of living the coulda woulda shoulda
existence, how about getting out and diving into it? and dropping some
of your cash. lots of others are. you can be concerned about the
budget AND dig the place.

BTW drinks are affordable at Paradise and they had a special on
absolut. Paradise is a beautifully mixed crowd, lights and sound are
amazing. plus you get the buff men in cock socks. sorry guys it is
what it is.

you can spend a lot of time thinking ap (and life) could be better
than it is, but you'll just die without having tasted what is offered
which is pretty delicious. and you'll be as miserable and perception
challenged as the anonymous maubdy who only posts to bash Werner. or
the even more miserable code asshole who keeps getting off on giving
him violations. what is that guy's deal? and what in God's name sleeps
with him? he seems to be a perfect example of what Wilhelm Reich wrote
about in Listen Little Man. somebody's pawn, somebody's bitch. maybe
maubdy and he are the same person.?


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Yeah, but unless you are a history buff, or a local, how many people
would actually take 
 the time to visit just for the Morro Castle?
 The Hindenburgh disaster happened at Lakehurst, and people rarely
visit the memorial 
 there. I'm not sure if the airbase has been closed to the public
since 9/11, but before that, 
 when it was open, I made a visit once. The person at the visitors
center said that maybe a 
 few 100 people visit every year, with less as the years go by.
 If I had my say, I'd steer our boardwalk area to be focused on music
and entertainment.
 Those are proven attractions, and if the price is right, they are
usually recession proof.
 Austin TX thrives because of it's music and entertainment scene.
 Memphis has Beele street.
 Nashville is all about music tourism.
 NYC packs people into their theaters and concert halls, and below
that there's a myriad of 
 places that carry on the tradition of CBGBs etc.
 AP once had that kind of draw, but the venues are disappearing, and
the boardwalk has 
 been made into a high end retail location that I predict will fail
big time this winter.
 If AP had a rock and roll museum that highlighted Bruce and the
others who are tied to our 
 city, people would come from all over the US, Europe and the world
to check it out.
 But, my thoughts on this are a complete waste, because it's just not
going to happen, 
 because our city doesn't recognize what it let slip thru it's fingers.
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakdorf@ wrote:
 
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote:
  
   Isn't the simplest, and most obvious attraction to AP it's music 
  scene?
  
  Why just have ONE (type) attraction to bring people in?
  
  More people in town for MORE reasons, year round = more people 
  spending more money.
  
  Disaster Tourism.
  
  Ever go to universal and go on the earthquake ride (think they 
  changed the name) 
  
  There's a hundred angles you can go with this. Start simple. Some 
  memorial and few notes about the mystery of the Morro and the 
  scandals that followed it.
  
  Put it this way. If the Titanic sunk off the coast of AP, there 
  probably would of been no movie of it or no memorial.
  
  
   In the mid-1980s, HBO television aired a dramatization of the fire 
  in their Catastrophe series, called The Last Voyage of the Morro 
  Castle.  In 2002, the AE television network made a documentary 
  about the incident. .
  ---
  Despite the fascinating tragedy and mystery of the Morro Castle 
  Disaster, no film for theatrical distribution nor even a television 
  movie was made of the story. However there have been references to 
  it. In the 1938 film Boy Meets Girl, James Cagney (in dictating a 
  letter to Pat O'Brien regarding what a third person is supposed to be 
  saying to his missing wife) says, I did not go down on the Morro 
  Castle! And at the conclusion of the 1935 Spencer Tracy film 
  Dante's Inferno a gambling cruise ship (resembling the Morro Castle) 
  is completely ablaze. The 1944 movie Minstral Man also features the 
  fire and sinking of the Morro Castle.
 






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[AsburyPark] Re: NYT

[Gabrielle Obre]

this site is great, compared to any other ap site its phenomenal. i
can't believe i discovered it just last nite...could be me, but there
are no links to it on the city's site, i didn't see a link on the
ap.net site, not on asburyboardwalk.com, etc...are you sure you know
the site i am talking about? its pretty amazing actually, fun and
interactive. clips of music from upcoming bands etc...

http://www.theasburyparkboardwalk.com/


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sharon_b283 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 No, it's not new, I just forgot about it, because I tend to look at
 the city's website, which is always behind the rest of them.  This IS
 a better website!
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre
 gabrielleobre@ wrote:
 
  somehow from this link i got to http://theasburyparkboardwalk.com/
  
  ive never seen this site before, but its the best ap site i have seen
  so far. fun to play on. not sure if its new. 
  
  
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sharon_b283 sharon_b283@ wrote:
  
   Close Werner.  Looked at the MMpdf, then googled MM and found this:
   
 
   http://www.oceanfrontasbury.com/retail_progress_slideshow.htm
   
   Slide show and all!
   
   
   --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj wernerapnj@ wrote:
   
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sharon_b283 sharon_b283@
 wrote:

 First link said Page Not Found and the other is not the one.
 Maybe it was a brochure!  I could have sworn it was Madison
  Marquettes
 Web page.
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakdorf@ wrote:
 
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj wernerapnj@
  wrote:
  
   --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sharon_b283
 sharon_b283@
wrote:
   
Werner, not so long ago, I remember a post where there
was a
link to
MM's website showing a fantasy architectural drawing, of
  what
 was to
come including a fantasy ferris wheel, as though the
  Palace had
morphed onto the boardwalk.  
  
==

Sharon,

Go here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/files/WernerAPNJ/

Open the picture names MM-Proposal.jpg

Werner
   
  
 






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[AsburyPark] Re: Stone Pony Closing for Repairs....

[Gabrielle Obre]

couple of years ago i went to a memorial there. the place felt steeped
in its history and i felt terrible about its potential demise. now i
am not so attached to it. its kind of a dump and that outdoor area is
close to disgusting. i have many great music memories there. But this
sounds like good news, maybe the market helped out. And it will give
the wonder bar more action.



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sharon_b283 sharon_b283@ wrote:
 
  I could never understand how a small place could hold a venue for some
  of the big names there!  Acoustics are terrible and makes my ears
  bleed!  I think the entire block should just be the Stone Pony,
  instead of the closet, it seems to be!  Those that think everything
  in Asbury Park should be torn down and make way for the new, should
  build around and inside to enlarge the place, THEN, what a draw for
  the OTHER thing AP is known for, MUSIC!  I could see Bruce re-opening
  the place.  Yeah, I could!
  
 ==
 
 Visionary, VISIONARY... Guess we are the only ones.
 
 I have recommended many times that the Pony be retained and enlarged
 on the current site.
 
 Unfortunately those in charge are myopic.
 
 Werner






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[AsburyPark] Re: NYT

[Gabrielle Obre]

i didn't realize you work one of the sites.  i know what you mean
about canned, but its a fun site.  will check out the history site thanks


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
 gabrielleobre@ wrote:
 
 , but there
  are no links to it on the city's site, i didn't see a link on the
  ap.net site, not on asburyboardwalk.com, etc
 
 actually I noticed I didn't even have link link working and no, I 
 don
 t have them as a link. 
 
 Also, somewhere along the way I deleted some other good links to AP.
 
 If they got rid of the flash intro, it would be alot better. Their 
 site is built off a canned template that was modified - but they are 
 now The Official site of THE boardwalk...
 
 Maybe I ahve to add the words the UNoffical site of the the 
 boardwalk...
 
 Actually, the boardwalk and rest of ap. Without press releases or 
 emails or the time or any barters or paid ads it works for me.
 
 If you haven't done so already, (I've said this before) go see 
 noweverthen.com - the BEST overall history of ALL of AP - for now.






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[AsburyPark] Re: Friday night at Watermark then Sellas...

[Gabrielle Obre]

Hey Oak, is there a dance floor and dance music?


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Quick note:
 
 Watermark very neat upstairs. Gret fireplace anc chairs.
 
 Kind of tough with yet even smaller glass for those cosmos with 
 belevedere coming in at $12.50. Maybe a 6oz glass. No food there from 
 stellas, so we walked across to the stella's and had a pie and salad. 
 Beer at Watermark $5.00 Had a good crowd eating there service from 
 klitchen was a bit slow, but that can be expected. 
 
 Just need bigger martini glasses or someone else to buy the drinks.






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[AsburyPark] Re: Friday night at Watermark then Sellas...

[Gabrielle Obre]

as far as the 12.50 drinks, though i don't think your wife would be
into it...hit up the cameo first ;). a friend was just telling me
about an article somewhere talking about how dives are back.

after spending 20 bucks a round all summer for my friend and i we
started going to the cameo. half price, same drinks.  its actually a
fun place, good characters, good juke box, awesome bartender. i
wouldn't consider it a dive at all. not the same view. 

flask economy!


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hey Oak, is there a dance floor and dance music?
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakdorf@ wrote:
 
  Quick note:
  
  Watermark very neat upstairs. Gret fireplace anc chairs.
  
  Kind of tough with yet even smaller glass for those cosmos with 
  belevedere coming in at $12.50. Maybe a 6oz glass. No food there from 
  stellas, so we walked across to the stella's and had a pie and salad. 
  Beer at Watermark $5.00 Had a good crowd eating there service from 
  klitchen was a bit slow, but that can be expected. 
  
  Just need bigger martini glasses or someone else to buy the drinks.
 






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[AsburyPark] Re: NYT

[Gabrielle Obre]

somehow from this link i got to http://theasburyparkboardwalk.com/

ive never seen this site before, but its the best ap site i have seen
so far. fun to play on. not sure if its new. 


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sharon_b283 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Close Werner.  Looked at the MMpdf, then googled MM and found this:
 
   
 http://www.oceanfrontasbury.com/retail_progress_slideshow.htm
 
 Slide show and all!
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj wernerapnj@ wrote:
 
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sharon_b283 sharon_b283@ wrote:
  
   First link said Page Not Found and the other is not the one.
   Maybe it was a brochure!  I could have sworn it was Madison
Marquettes
   Web page.
   
   --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakdorf@ wrote:
   
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj wernerapnj@
wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sharon_b283 sharon_b283@
  wrote:
 
  Werner, not so long ago, I remember a post where there was a
  link to
  MM's website showing a fantasy architectural drawing, of
what
   was to
  come including a fantasy ferris wheel, as though the
Palace had
  morphed onto the boardwalk.  

  ==
  
  Sharon,
  
  Go here:
  
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/files/WernerAPNJ/
  
  Open the picture names MM-Proposal.jpg
  
  Werner
 






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[AsburyPark] Re: The Law,....

[Gabrielle Obre]

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Well - I'm off to the vegan restaurant to insist they cook me a
 cheeseburger.  Or I'll sue.


Oh God, please tell me you didn't ask for a cheeseburger in a vegan
restaurant! I worked in one for 6 years, I'd hate to think about how a
guy I cherish so much was mocked in the kitchen. It was really hard to
be a gracious server whenever someone thought they were being original
and funny with that old line. 

This whole debate simply circles around something we all hate to
admit... American narcissism gone nuclear. MOI MOI MOI MOI MOI MOI!
MY RIGHTS! MY RIGHTS! MY RIGHTS!

Meanwhile children are sold into sex slavery, people work for 50 cents
(or less) a day..yadda yadda yadda. and we are pissing people off and
boring them for not posting about AP.




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[AsburyPark] Web Sites That Dig for News Rise as Watchdogs

[Gabrielle Obre]

hmmm...

The New York Times
Printer Friendly Format Sponsored By

November 18, 2008
Web Sites That Dig for News Rise as Watchdogs
By RICHARD PÉREZ-PEÑA

SAN DIEGO — Over the last two years, some of this city's darkest
secrets have been dragged into the light — city officials with
conflicts of interest and hidden pay raises, affordable housing that
was not affordable, misleading crime statistics.

Investigations ensued. The chiefs of two redevelopment agencies were
forced out. One of them faces criminal charges. Yet the main
revelations came not from any of San Diego's television and radio
stations or its dominant newspaper, The San Diego Union-Tribune, but
from a handful of young journalists at a nonprofit Web site run out of
a converted military base far from downtown's glass towers — a site
that did not exist four years ago.

As America's newspapers shrink and shed staff, and broadcast news
outlets sink in the ratings, a new kind of Web-based news operation
has arisen in several cities, forcing the papers to follow the stories
they uncover.

Here it is VoiceofSanDiego.org, offering a brand of serious, original
reporting by professional journalists — the province of the
traditional media, but at a much lower cost of doing business. Since
it began in 2005, similar operations have cropped up in New Haven, the
Twin Cities, Seattle, St. Louis and Chicago. More are on the way.

Their news coverage and hard-digging investigative reporting stand out
in an Internet landscape long dominated by partisan commentary,
gossip, vitriol and citizen journalism posted by unpaid amateurs.

The fledgling movement has reached a sufficient critical mass, its
founders think, so they plan to form an association, angling for
national advertising and foundation grants that they could not compete
for singly. And hardly a week goes by without a call from journalists
around the country seeking advice about starting their own online news
outlets.

Voice is doing really significant work, driving the agenda on
redevelopment and some other areas, putting local politicians and
businesses on the hot seat, said Dean Nelson, director of the
journalism program at Point Loma Nazarene University in San Diego. I
have them come into my classes, and I introduce them as, `This is the
future of journalism.' 

That is a subject of hot debate among people who closely follow the
newspaper industry. Publishing online means operating at half the cost
of a comparable printed paper, but online advertising is not robust
enough to sustain a newsroom.

And so financially, VoiceofSan Diego and its peers mimic public
broadcasting, not newspapers. They are nonprofit corporations
supported by foundations, wealthy donors, audience contributions and a
little advertising.

New nonprofits without a specific geographic focus also have sprung up
to fill other niches, like ProPublica, devoted to investigative
journalism, and the Pulitzer Center on Crisis Reporting, which looks
into problems around the world. A similar group, the Center for
Investigative Reporting, dates back three decades.

But some experts question whether a large part of the news business
can survive on what is essentially charity, and whether it is wise to
lean too heavily on the whims of a few moneyed benefactors.

These are some of the big questions about the future of the
business, said Robert H. Giles, curator of the Nieman Foundation for
Journalism at Harvard. Nonprofit news online has to be explored and
experimented with, but it has to overcome the hurdle of proving it can
support a big news staff. Even the most well-funded of these sites are
a far cry in resources from a city newspaper.

The people who run the local news sites see themselves as one future
among many, and they have a complex relationship with traditional
media. The say that the deterioration of those media has created an
opening for new sources of news, as well as a surplus of unemployed
journalists for them to hire.

No one here welcomes the decline of newspapers, said Andrew Donohue,
one of two executive editors at VoiceofSanDiego. We can't be the main
news source for this city, not for the foreseeable future. We only
have 11 people.

Those people are almost all young, some of them refugees from older
media. The executive editors, Mr. Donohue, 30, and Scott Lewis, 32,
each had a few years of experience at small papers before abandoning
newsprint. So far, their audience is tiny, about 18,000 monthly unique
visitors, according to Quantcast, a media measurement service.

The biggest of the new nonprofit news sites, MinnPost in the Twin
Cities and the St. Louis Beacon, can top 200,000 visitors in a month,
but even that is a fraction of the Internet readership for the local
newspapers.

VoiceofSanDiego's site looks much like any newspaper's, frequently
updated with breaking news and organized around broad topics:
government and politics, housing, economics, the environment, schools
and science. It has few graphics, but plenty of 

[AsburyPark] Re: NYT

[Gabrielle Obre]

Tommy...i admit i didn't get the joke. and as far as
psychoanalyzing...we've all got psyches and they pretty much drive all
of our actions. and they are endlessly fascinating. like, why does
tommy take everything so personal and yet claim to never personalize?
you referred to me as mary magdalene twice. to lots of people you
essentially called me a whore. i don't give a shit, but you would.
that's interesting. and BTW in psycho babble its called projection.
you are a perfect study of it.

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Geez, Gabbi, does everything have to be psycho-analyzed so deeply?
 
 My wife isn't a Republican nor does she involve herself with 
 politics.
 
 The joke was like any other - on the surface - not a deep political 
 analysis.
 
 If you are a local, no wait even if you aren't,  and you've read 
 about AP, you know there have been many starts and stops to 
 redevelopment.  Like the place is cursed (many jokes have been made 
 about the C-8 site being cursed).
 
 So she used irony.  The folks running the global market obiously 
 didn't meet in Geneva or somewhere and whisper, Asbury Park is 
 making a comeback - tank the whole world economy!
 
 That's what makes it a joke.
 
 By the way - the last time AP tried this redevelopment was in the 
 late 80's - the whole American economy tanked in the middle of it, 
 causeing Carabetta to go bankrupt.  You are old enough to recall 
 it.  That too makes the joke work.
 
 I can't believe I had to spend this much time explaining a simple 
 joke to you, while you play Freud and try to find the meaning of 
 life in it.
 
 You really are a killjoy.
 
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
 gabrielleobre@ wrote:
 
  i never should have typed it. i was responding to tommy's wifes 
 joke,
  which i didn't read as a joke. i didn't get it, still don't. but it
  sounded to me like the whole world is against asbury park and 
 that
  is the reason for its struggle. not asbury park. the world, the 
 riots,
  the economy. now the fault is MM. not ap decision makers.
  
  so, if asbury were a person (apparently a pretty dysfunctional one)
  the reason for its dysfunction is the global economy, MM etc, not 
 AP
  itself. which sounds to me like something an addict would say. 
  
  it just sounded like someone placing the responsibility for ap's
  insane drama on everything else but itself. something republicans
  criticize individuals for all the time.
  
  sorry if it offended anyone.
  
  Asbury seems insanely dysfunctional to me right now. That last APP
  article that Jack posted tipped me over the edge. WTF is up with 
 this
  place? Is there anyone competent in charge?  I just wish I could
  understand it. I feel like I have a responsibility to try to, but 
 it
  just doesn't seem worth it sometimes.
  
  
  
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sharon_b283 sharon_b283@ 
 wrote:
  
   I didn't understand a word, you said!  I just realized, that I 
 don't
   understand street talk or I'm just naive!  Come again?
   
   --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote:
   
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre
gabrielleobre@ wrote:

 sorta sounds like something a scamming drug addict would say.
 
 just when i was 6 months clean, smack drops in price

Your statement would suggest exactly the opposite of what the 
 article
suggests. So what, AP is a scamming drug addict? Nice 
 metaphor - not.
   
  
 






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[AsburyPark] Re: Web Sites That Dig for News Rise as Watchdogs

[Gabrielle Obre]

I actually posted this before i read the whole thing...please
read...here are two excerpts the first made me think of ap in
particular. and lets be real, nancy shield is NO journalist. neither
is carol gorga williams. we live in a community with lots of cash
flying around and zero oversight, zero news coverage.

Voice is doing really significant work, driving the agenda on
redevelopment and some other areas, putting local politicians and
businesses on the hot seat, said Dean Nelson, director of the
journalism program at Point Loma Nazarene University in San Diego. I
have them come into my classes, and I introduce them as, `This is the
future of journalism.' 

Information is now a public service as much as it's a commodity, he
said. It should be thought of the same way as education, health care.
It's one of the things you need to operate a civil society, and the
market isn't doing it very well.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 hmmm...
 
 The New York Times
 Printer Friendly Format Sponsored By
 
 November 18, 2008
 Web Sites That Dig for News Rise as Watchdogs
 By RICHARD PÉREZ-PEÑA
 
 SAN DIEGO — Over the last two years, some of this city's darkest
 secrets have been dragged into the light — city officials with
 conflicts of interest and hidden pay raises, affordable housing that
 was not affordable, misleading crime statistics.
 
 Investigations ensued. The chiefs of two redevelopment agencies were
 forced out. One of them faces criminal charges. Yet the main
 revelations came not from any of San Diego's television and radio
 stations or its dominant newspaper, The San Diego Union-Tribune, but
 from a handful of young journalists at a nonprofit Web site run out of
 a converted military base far from downtown's glass towers — a site
 that did not exist four years ago.
 
 As America's newspapers shrink and shed staff, and broadcast news
 outlets sink in the ratings, a new kind of Web-based news operation
 has arisen in several cities, forcing the papers to follow the stories
 they uncover.
 
 Here it is VoiceofSanDiego.org, offering a brand of serious, original
 reporting by professional journalists — the province of the
 traditional media, but at a much lower cost of doing business. Since
 it began in 2005, similar operations have cropped up in New Haven, the
 Twin Cities, Seattle, St. Louis and Chicago. More are on the way.
 
 Their news coverage and hard-digging investigative reporting stand out
 in an Internet landscape long dominated by partisan commentary,
 gossip, vitriol and citizen journalism posted by unpaid amateurs.
 
 The fledgling movement has reached a sufficient critical mass, its
 founders think, so they plan to form an association, angling for
 national advertising and foundation grants that they could not compete
 for singly. And hardly a week goes by without a call from journalists
 around the country seeking advice about starting their own online news
 outlets.
 
 Voice is doing really significant work, driving the agenda on
 redevelopment and some other areas, putting local politicians and
 businesses on the hot seat, said Dean Nelson, director of the
 journalism program at Point Loma Nazarene University in San Diego. I
 have them come into my classes, and I introduce them as, `This is the
 future of journalism.' 
 
 That is a subject of hot debate among people who closely follow the
 newspaper industry. Publishing online means operating at half the cost
 of a comparable printed paper, but online advertising is not robust
 enough to sustain a newsroom.
 
 And so financially, VoiceofSan Diego and its peers mimic public
 broadcasting, not newspapers. They are nonprofit corporations
 supported by foundations, wealthy donors, audience contributions and a
 little advertising.
 
 New nonprofits without a specific geographic focus also have sprung up
 to fill other niches, like ProPublica, devoted to investigative
 journalism, and the Pulitzer Center on Crisis Reporting, which looks
 into problems around the world. A similar group, the Center for
 Investigative Reporting, dates back three decades.
 
 But some experts question whether a large part of the news business
 can survive on what is essentially charity, and whether it is wise to
 lean too heavily on the whims of a few moneyed benefactors.
 
 These are some of the big questions about the future of the
 business, said Robert H. Giles, curator of the Nieman Foundation for
 Journalism at Harvard. Nonprofit news online has to be explored and
 experimented with, but it has to overcome the hurdle of proving it can
 support a big news staff. Even the most well-funded of these sites are
 a far cry in resources from a city newspaper.
 
 The people who run the local news sites see themselves as one future
 among many, and they have a complex relationship with traditional
 media. The say that the deterioration of those media has created an
 opening for new sources of news, as well as a surplus

[AsburyPark] City's BW revenue

[Gabrielle Obre]

What revenue is the city receiving from the BW now other than parking
and beach badge fees?

Taxes from the pavilions? If yes, any idea how much?

What about the finished condos?






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[AsburyPark] Re: NYT

[Gabrielle Obre]

i never should have typed it. i was responding to tommy's wifes joke,
which i didn't read as a joke. i didn't get it, still don't. but it
sounded to me like the whole world is against asbury park and that
is the reason for its struggle. not asbury park. the world, the riots,
the economy. now the fault is MM. not ap decision makers.

so, if asbury were a person (apparently a pretty dysfunctional one)
the reason for its dysfunction is the global economy, MM etc, not AP
itself. which sounds to me like something an addict would say. 

it just sounded like someone placing the responsibility for ap's
insane drama on everything else but itself. something republicans
criticize individuals for all the time.

sorry if it offended anyone.

Asbury seems insanely dysfunctional to me right now. That last APP
article that Jack posted tipped me over the edge. WTF is up with this
place? Is there anyone competent in charge?  I just wish I could
understand it. I feel like I have a responsibility to try to, but it
just doesn't seem worth it sometimes.



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sharon_b283 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I didn't understand a word, you said!  I just realized, that I don't
 understand street talk or I'm just naive!  Come again?
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote:
 
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre
  gabrielleobre@ wrote:
  
   sorta sounds like something a scamming drug addict would say.
   
   just when i was 6 months clean, smack drops in price
  
  Your statement would suggest exactly the opposite of what the article
  suggests. So what, AP is a scamming drug addict? Nice metaphor - not.
 






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[AsburyPark] Re: Prevous Budgets

[Gabrielle Obre]

you mean an uploaded PDF? as long as tommy is willing to. they just
need to be faxed to him. 

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj wernerapnj@ wrote:
 
  Since it was so easy to get this years - we need the past years
  also... say from 2000 onward... to see what has been happening and why
  we are $13M in debt.
  
 
 
 How about it? Could the past years be made available via the same
 process as the current budget?
 
 2007, 2006, 2005
 
 Werner






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[AsburyPark] Re: NYT

[Gabrielle Obre]

sorta sounds like something a scamming drug addict would say.

just when i was 6 months clean, smack drops in price

do you think any of ap's failures have anything to do with the people
that have been making decisions and not making decisions here for the
past chunk of decades?

don't get me wrong, i don't mind the failures. I am not one of those
people who moved here because i thought its gonna be great in a
couple of years or because i invested in the place, i was happy to
take it as is. but lets be real about its issues. maybe not so easy to
do if you have tentacles reaching into the halls of mediocre power, or
if you are afraid of being wernerized. 


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 My wife told me the entire World Economy tanked BECAUSE Asbury Park 
 was making a comeback.
 
 Like it was a last ditch global effort to keep the place down.
 
 
 
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote:
 
  November 16, 2008
  Our Towns
  A Boardwalk Is Poised for Revival. Then the Economy Tanks.
  By PETER APPLEBOME
  
  ASBURY PARK, N.J.
  
  Yes, it is something of a bummer.
  
  Three or four decades of stops and starts — mostly stops — in this
  legendarily faded and ill-starred stretch of the Jersey Shore and
  finally, finally, things seem to reach a critical mass. Revived 
 music
  halls of all shapes and sizes. Cool bars, a Mexican taqueria, a 
 surfer
  shop, glass blowers and a potter on the Boardwalk. The renovated
  Convention Hall and Paramount Theater with its Greetings From 
 Asbury
  Park sign out front. And the famous Thursday night yappy hour for
  pets at the Wonder Bar.
  
  The idea is sort of Jersey Shore meets South Beach while still 
 staying
  Jersey Shore, and it's not nearly as much of a stretch as it might
  seem. But on a miserable rainy Thursday, with the economy blowing up
  like a joke cigar, it feels more like Springsteen meets Fellini: The
  ratty old Howard Johnson is now the hip seaside Salt Water Beach 
 Cafe;
  and the stalled Esperanza condominium project on Asbury Park's most
  famous lot of death, known for its doomed projects, is a hulking
  reminder of what has gone wrong in the midst of plenty that seems to
  be going right.
  
  Still, those who've bet their future that there really is one in a
  place that a decade ago was about as much of a wasteland as you 
 could
  find in America seem pretty philosophical about the bad timing. 
 Let's
  face it, we're all feeling our way through the smoke without much of
  an idea of what's around the corner. So maybe Asbury Park is just 
 like
  any other place, only more so, one foot just out of the crypt, the
  other reaching for firm ground, whistling past the graveyard into 
 the
  great beyond.
  
  Take Marilyn Schlossbach, a Jersey Shore native and a well-known 
 local
  restaurateur. Back in the false revival of the 1980s, she lost the
  land she'd inherited from her parents in a failed restaurant 
 venture.
  This time, she and her husband are presiding over Pop's Garage, the
  taqueria; Lightly Salted, the surf shop; and the just-opened 
 Langosta
  Lounge, billed as a global fusion restaurant. They are all part 
 of a
  $60 million investment by the Madison Marquette development firm in
  the Boardwalk, which this weekend has all its major attractions open
  for the first time. Altogether, at least $160 million has been
  invested in an area that a decade ago was a seaside ghost town.
  
  You might think this is pretty cruel timing, but Ms. Schlossbach, 
 who
  has seen enough over the years, figures that this is just another 
 hand
  to play.
  
  There's something about this place that sucks you in, she said on
  Thursday, the ocean a dark, angry swirl outside the window of the
  lounge. You could say it's cursed or you could say it's got karmic
  energy or you could say it's blessed. I don't know. But there's
  something about Asbury Park that keeps you coming back. I'm living
  proof of it. I've already lost and gained and lost and gained a 
 couple
  of times, but I'm here, and I still want to be here.
  
  If not for Bruce Springsteen, whose 1973 debut album, Greetings 
 From
  Asbury Park, N.J., turned this place from faded Jersey Shore town 
 to
  national icon, maybe no one would care all that much about Asbury
  Park. Developed as a seaside resort in 1871, its Boardwalk became a
  shore monument in the 1920s. The place waxed and waned over the 
 years,
  and lurched toward disaster after racial unrest that peaked with the
  riots of 1970. Then the waterfront slipped into total ruin and
  abandonment in the early 1990s.
  
  To see people on the Boardwalk in the winter, it's a miracle, said
  Leigh Grahill, who is moving her business, which sells hand-sewn
  couture, to the arcade in Convention Hall. Until last year, you 
 would
  not find a soul, not a soul, there. I remember when I first started
  looking at Asbury Park in 1999, parking my car 

[AsburyPark] Re: NYT

[Gabrielle Obre]

didn't read as a joke but whatever. sorry if i offended you or anyone
else. easy to do here. it seems people enjoy being offended.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
 gabrielleobre@ wrote:
 
 It was joke Gabbi, and a funny one.  The brunt of the joke is the 
 World, not Asbury, in case you didn't get it.
 
 I hope spouses are at least off limits for abuse around here.
 
 
 
  sorta sounds like something a scamming drug addict would say.
  
  just when i was 6 months clean, smack drops in price
  
  do you think any of ap's failures have anything to do with the 
 people
  that have been making decisions and not making decisions here for 
 the
  past chunk of decades?
  
  don't get me wrong, i don't mind the failures. I am not one of 
 those
  people who moved here because i thought its gonna be great in a
  couple of years or because i invested in the place, i was happy to
  take it as is. but lets be real about its issues. maybe not so 
 easy to
  do if you have tentacles reaching into the halls of mediocre 
 power, or
  if you are afraid of being wernerized. 
  
  
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
  justifiedright@ wrote:
  
   My wife told me the entire World Economy tanked BECAUSE Asbury 
 Park 
   was making a comeback.
   
   Like it was a last ditch global effort to keep the place down.
   
   
   
   
   
   --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny dfsavgny@ wrote:
   
November 16, 2008
Our Towns
A Boardwalk Is Poised for Revival. Then the Economy Tanks.
By PETER APPLEBOME

ASBURY PARK, N.J.

Yes, it is something of a bummer.

Three or four decades of stops and starts — mostly stops — in 
 this
legendarily faded and ill-starred stretch of the Jersey Shore 
 and
finally, finally, things seem to reach a critical mass. 
 Revived 
   music
halls of all shapes and sizes. Cool bars, a Mexican taqueria, 
 a 
   surfer
shop, glass blowers and a potter on the Boardwalk. The 
 renovated
Convention Hall and Paramount Theater with its Greetings From 
   Asbury
Park sign out front. And the famous Thursday night yappy 
 hour for
pets at the Wonder Bar.

The idea is sort of Jersey Shore meets South Beach while still 
   staying
Jersey Shore, and it's not nearly as much of a stretch as it 
 might
seem. But on a miserable rainy Thursday, with the economy 
 blowing up
like a joke cigar, it feels more like Springsteen meets 
 Fellini: The
ratty old Howard Johnson is now the hip seaside Salt Water 
 Beach 
   Cafe;
and the stalled Esperanza condominium project on Asbury Park's 
 most
famous lot of death, known for its doomed projects, is a 
 hulking
reminder of what has gone wrong in the midst of plenty that 
 seems to
be going right.

Still, those who've bet their future that there really is one 
 in a
place that a decade ago was about as much of a wasteland as 
 you 
   could
find in America seem pretty philosophical about the bad 
 timing. 
   Let's
face it, we're all feeling our way through the smoke without 
 much of
an idea of what's around the corner. So maybe Asbury Park is 
 just 
   like
any other place, only more so, one foot just out of the crypt, 
 the
other reaching for firm ground, whistling past the graveyard 
 into 
   the
great beyond.

Take Marilyn Schlossbach, a Jersey Shore native and a well-
 known 
   local
restaurateur. Back in the false revival of the 1980s, she lost 
 the
land she'd inherited from her parents in a failed restaurant 
   venture.
This time, she and her husband are presiding over Pop's 
 Garage, the
taqueria; Lightly Salted, the surf shop; and the just-opened 
   Langosta
Lounge, billed as a global fusion restaurant. They are all 
 part 
   of a
$60 million investment by the Madison Marquette development 
 firm in
the Boardwalk, which this weekend has all its major 
 attractions open
for the first time. Altogether, at least $160 million has been
invested in an area that a decade ago was a seaside ghost town.

You might think this is pretty cruel timing, but Ms. 
 Schlossbach, 
   who
has seen enough over the years, figures that this is just 
 another 
   hand
to play.

There's something about this place that sucks you in, she 
 said on
Thursday, the ocean a dark, angry swirl outside the window of 
 the
lounge. You could say it's cursed or you could say it's got 
 karmic
energy or you could say it's blessed. I don't know. But there's
something about Asbury Park that keeps you coming back. I'm 
 living
proof of it. I've already lost and gained and lost and gained 
 a 
   couple
of times, but I'm here, and I still want to be here.

If not for Bruce Springsteen, whose 1973 debut 
 album, Greetings 
   From
Asbury Park, N.J

[AsburyPark] Re: Responding to Mr. Keady's lies (again)

[Gabrielle Obre]

This thread is about something that matters to the people who were
participating in it.  there are threads that i am uninterested in,
don't understand or am bored by. i ignore them. who am i to, in any
way suggest that the thread shouldn't be happening for ANY reason? who
am i to express my boredom at a conversation happening between anyone?
perhaps you don't like to debate, discuss and try to understand sticky
issues and the people involved in them. obviously others do. people
should always be free to express themselves and have the conversations
they choose to have. it seems there is always someone here complaining
about what is discussed here. you get criticized if its not about ap,
bore people when it is. and the complaints usually come from people
who rarely participate. sorta like people who stand on the perimeter
of a dance floor criticizing the dancers as they stand there, barely
able to tap a toe.





--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, juicy jenn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I thought that this discussion board was a nice place to keep up on
current events and also to talk, discuss, and debate things that
matter to all of us, in a city, that we all chose to live in...But
instead these debates go on for days, with the same 6 people, that
tend to attack each other on this forum..It feels more like a gossip
column that most people dont understand..Thats whats boring..
 
 And as far as your rape statement, and for calling out the Lanes,
you should just ask me what the film was, and I would have let you
know that if you saw something that looked like rape on the screen
that offended you, it would have been taken off the screen. Bands tend
to bring films that fall into the genre of B films, or off the wall
artsy things..We do not censor what they chose, and if anyone,
complains, of course we take it off. If you did in fact know me, or
anyone that works at the Lanes, you would know how silly your
paragraph was..Now I am boring myself..
 
 Thanks for the perspective!
 
 xoxo






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[AsburyPark] Who owns the boardwalk?

[Gabrielle Obre]

Forgive my ignorance. I was told by someone that the city sold it,
therefore gains no revenue for it but obviously has to pay for the
services (police, sanitation etc).

If this is the case, when was it sold? price? who owns it? how was
that decision made? do other towns own their BW?




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[AsburyPark] Re: Top 10 Ugliest Buildings In The World

[Gabrielle Obre]

just sat at the beautiful bar at stella marina with a friend. we loved
seeing the casino edifice through the windows. i thought of werner
because the most annoying thing about sitting at the bar (and i
imagine some of the tables) is the obnoxious parking lot lights
beaming in at you.

love the casino building. its not ugly.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/10/22/ugliest.buildings/?
 iref=intlOnlyonCNN#cnnSTCPhoto
 
 or
 
 http://tinyurl.com/5rn24e
 
 I am shocked, SHOCKED, that the words Asbury  Park and Casino 
 don't appear on this list.






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[AsburyPark] Re: Who owns the boardwalk?

[Gabrielle Obre]

thanks, that makes sense, its like a street. the conversation i had
with someone led me to think ap gave up too much opportunity for
revenue which would make me wonder about the people making big
decisions. what about the green space?

i have a lot of faith in MM. asbury partners on the other hand seem
like typical jersey goons. which were not a part of my coming of age
in nj, but is now a meme that has taken over the jersey shore. goons
that is. goons come in all shapes, colors, faiths etc. 

one of my favorite memories is being at the pony watching one of the
goons, surrounded by young good looking black guys he appeared to be
buying drinks for, taking on the role he is too small to fill. 

goons. we all participate.



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleobre@
wrote:
 
  Forgive my ignorance. I was told by someone that the city sold it,
  therefore gains no revenue for it but obviously has to pay for the
  services (police, sanitation etc).
  
 
 
 The boardwalk is like a street and is technically owned by the city.
The city, in a way, gave 
 rights as to what can actually  take place on the boardwalk itself.
The buildings - the land 
 between the BW and OCean Ave, are MM/Partners. But within the zone -
it's a public/private 
 partnership with all bets on the developer to produce with the
city's blessings over the net 
 xx number of years.
 
 MM has not debt in this venture..






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[AsburyPark] The Goon in all of us

[Gabrielle Obre]

This is an article on dubya, but could easily translate to smaller
realms, like ours. Simply exchange Dubya or Bush with AP power
broker of any ilk.

http://www.commondreams.org/print/34524

Published on Sunday, November 16, 2008 by the Seattle Post-Intelligencer
The 'Dubya' in All of Us

by Donald M. Mihaloew

Until now, it has been easy criticizing George Dubya Bush, for he,
and his people, has made a debacle of their administration.
Criticizing him as president has been an attractive alternative to
looking at us as citizens. For few of us would want to admit that any
of this administration's dishonesty and incompetence would reside in
us as well.

Though still wealthy and strong, America is in decline. It has moved
beyond mere wealth acquisition and comfort seeking into a fear-based
attitude that requires satiation. It's as though cornering personal
and corporate markets has become the acceptable norm, where our
necessities need to be luxurious and our luxuries necessary.

No longer is it only an economic issue; but now has become a
psychosocial matter giving way to a craving that, in turn, always
brings on decadence. It's not about material any more; it's about
mindset. It raises the question of just how much is enough and can be
defined as a little more than I had yesterday.

When will it end? If it doesn't, we probably will. Are we there
already? Why is the American dream at stake? Precisely because it
wasn't a bona fide dream in the first place but rather a fantasy
vision based in a sense of insecure scarcity and manifested in a
craving, manipulative push for everyone to get theirs, otherwise
known as greed.

And greed comes directly from believing there isn't enough, as though
America isn't rich enough.

Why have we criticized Bush and his entire entourage? The seeds of
decay, now fully evident in a pitifully failed and pernicious
administration in D.C., are now showing up in an apparently failed
society in the rest of America as well. Note the banking industry as
only one example. But no one ambitious person or group can be
successful in any endeavor at any time without tacit, though cryptic,
agreement and co-operation from the general populace.

The question here is: Is this administration simply a manifested
excess of what the overall population secretly desires? If possibly
so, each of us has to look deeply in ourselves to find the answer to
this inevitable, near sudden collapse of the American lifestyle. The
issue is too complex for any single factor to be suspect, but nothing
will change unless we look inward before outward.

This kind of introspection has not been nor will it ever come from
Dubya. We have possibly all been co-conspirators and silent partners
with this quasi-government, not conservative in philosophy, but rather
narcissistic. Even if you did not vote for him, we are all still
somewhat responsible for allowing the baseness of this regime to rise
to the top of the vessel that once contained all the necessary
elements of sustainability.

This sustainability is all but gone now and will take decades to
redevelop. This redevelopment will not come only from any newly
elected president or Congress, nor should it. For while competent
leadership is essential, each of us must re-examine our values and
begin choosing to live in a manner that befits continued mutual
respect for other people, nations and for our total planet.

What is the Dubya that exists in all of us? Perhaps it stands for
Wanton, maybe even Wasteful, and maybe even just plain Wrong. It could
stand for Waking Up, or being Watchful, or Wrestling honestly with
ourselves and others in respectful dialogue. George W Bush needs to
but won't see the W's that still exist in others who care to change
a debilitative life style into something that allows for a Willingness
to examine values, a Widening of perspective, and a Welcoming of a
commitment to Wellness.

Dubya, and the Dubya in all of us, needs a fuller appreciation of what
life in this country could be without the craving. Will we do it? Or
will we continue criticizing him, others and future presidents for not
providing us with satiation?

It would be beneficial to start measuring wealth in terms of
character, integrity and gratitude rather than only in commodities,
possessions and investments. Thus the decline in America will stop if
we redefine wealth as worthy citizenship. What we pay attention to
determines what we miss.

As H.L. Mencken once said, As the office of the presidency is
perfected, it represents, more closely, the inner soul of the people.

Clearly, we are missing what is already writ large in past, present
and future history. Bush may leave office, but we citizens remain.
Let's get on with the necessary due diligence of change, growth, and
evolution.

 
©1996-2008 Seattle Post-Intelligencer
Donald M. Mihaloew is a marriage and family therapist and teaches at
Portland State University.

Article printed from www.CommonDreams.org
URL to article: 

[AsburyPark] Re: Who owns the boardwalk?

[Gabrielle Obre]

http://www.theasburyparkboardwalk.com/press/13

So far, in a short time, Madison Marquette has invested $60 million
in remaking the boardwalk, money that came from $500 in private equity
funds and carries no debt. Madison Marquette also spent just under $50
million to buy out Kushner Cos.'s Wesley Grove lakeside condominium
project last winter.

We have spent $60 million so far on just the boardwalk and
entertainment venues and have no debt on this, Mottola said. In
today's market, being debt-free is very important.



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
  MM has not debt in this venture..
 
 Oak, what makes you say that MM has no debt in the project?  
 
 No bank loans?  They are using company capitol?
 
 How do you know?






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[AsburyPark] Re: Who owns the boardwalk?

[Gabrielle Obre]

take it to the G-Man then. the quote is pretty plain. 

60 million cash is not all that much for some fish.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Shenanigans.
 
 They had $60 million liquid and put it here?
 
 I'm not sure I buy that.
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
 gabrielleobre@ wrote:
 
  http://www.theasburyparkboardwalk.com/press/13
  
  So far, in a short time, Madison Marquette has invested $60 
 million
  in remaking the boardwalk, money that came from $500 in private 
 equity
  funds and carries no debt. Madison Marquette also spent just under 
 $50
  million to buy out Kushner Cos.'s Wesley Grove lakeside condominium
  project last winter.
  
  We have spent $60 million so far on just the boardwalk and
  entertainment venues and have no debt on this, Mottola said. In
  today's market, being debt-free is very important.
  
  
  
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
  justifiedright@ wrote:
  
   
MM has not debt in this venture..
   
   Oak, what makes you say that MM has no debt in the project?  
   
   No bank loans?  They are using company capitol?
   
   How do you know?
  
 






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[AsburyPark] Re: Top 10 Ugliest Buildings In The World

[Gabrielle Obre]

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, nobepeymay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Stella Marina was very busy Friday night, beautiful bar and also a top 
 rate restaurant as well.it should do very well.  It was nice to 
 see all of the activiity in town Saturday as well, lots of energy with 
 all of the concerts going on.  It was kind of funny to see the 
 teenagers standing out in the cold rain on the bw at 3:30 PM for for 
 5:30 PM door at convention hall...some with just t-shirts on.
 

nice to hear it was busy. i was there thurs nite. my friend and i went
out onto the upstairs outside deck and were giddy with excitement and
anticipation for the summer feel there. thank you for those spaces. i
imagine watermark is going to be just as exciting and musically
delicious to boot.

last nite the area was packed. paradise was busy and fun and led me to
a new fascination. hetero women who go apeshit in gay bars. it may
have had something to do with the male dancers. but they required more
security attention than anyone i have ever seen in a bar. interesting.





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[AsburyPark] Re: Who owns the boardwalk?

[Gabrielle Obre]

this is over my head. to understand you would need to know the details
of lots of agreements that may not be publicly available. like the
agreement between MM and the asbury goons. there are probably public
docs that could explain this if anyone had the impetus and wherewithal
to deal with the people you must in order to obtain the docs.

being a born and bred jersey girl, i assume some sort of shady
dealings. i think most jersey folk would. but, being a jersey girl, i
can also laugh it off a bit with a glass of wine. just don't expect me
to believe your lies, complacency or your suck up to the people who
dangle power over you. (by you i mean any of the goons, goonettes,
or goon pawns). New Jersey wasn't always a set for the Sopranos. 


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
 gabrielleobre@ wrote:
 
  take it to the G-Man then. the quote is pretty plain. 
  
  60 million cash is not all that much for some fish.
 
 
 Whether 60 million is alot or not depends entirely on the level of 
 risk;  I don't care how much you have.
 
 AP retail was and is risky as hell, particularly when MM does not 
 have the hedge bet in place where they get to build the remainder of 
 the 3000 condos.
 
 If MM put 60 million of their own juice in with no deal on the 
 condos in place, then Gary M must have an abundance of man spheres, 
 or absolutely no brain sphere.
 
 Or he's misleading and they have debt on the project.
 
 Take your pick of the 3 possibilities.
 
 Provide a 4th if you know of one.






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[AsburyPark] Re: Budget

[Gabrielle Obre]

thanks, be there around 11am


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleobre@ 
 wrote:
 
  that was snort worthy! funny
 
 stop by my office and I'll fax it. someone's in by 9 am if I'm not. 
 leave either second floor secretary or first floor main desk (vacant) 
 with a note.
 
 708 Hwy 35, next to Perkins on the AP circle.
 
 Like it's a major production. At least the city employees were being 
 effective in time management and use of city property.






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[AsburyPark] Re: Budget's Up!

[Gabrielle Obre]

Thank you Tommy and Cassandra.

If anyone has any idea to put this in a format that is accessible to
non wonks, that would be great. I can do simple data entry.



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Go to the Files Section and look for AP.Budget.






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[AsburyPark] Re: Responding to Mr. Keady's lies (again)

[Gabrielle Obre]

Is this Juicy Jen from the lanes?  Funny you should bring up rape.
Last year some time I was at the lanes watching a band, and on the
screen behind the band you guys were showing clips of rape scenes. It
was really strange. I was exhausted so I wasn't reacting, but I
remember thinking wow, if i had been raped, this would be really
disturbing to me. Pretty sure a woman who was there complained. I saw
her talk to some of the women there and the film was changed. I
couldn't imagine what it would be like to be ok with footage like that
shown in a place I worked or ran.

Sorry this discussion has bored you. It does get that way. I just like
to get to the bottom of things, like why does Tommy try to divert
potential discussions of the city budget into personal brouhahas.

What would you like to talk about since we are boring you?




--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, juicy jenn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 wow-
 
 Snore..snore..wake us up when we are back to talking about things
that matter to the 75% of the people that are on this group..
 
 Columbus and his men raped the Indians,our land, and left us with
syphilis and the fact that we celebrate a day after him is
bizarro..And I dont have to have years of education to figure that
out..And the fact that someone will speak their mind about it, should
be commended..and will hopefully change things, cuz lord knows that
Asbury Park needs to spend money on a celebration for such an amazing
man that we all knew and loved and did sooo much for all of us..give
me a break!
 
 
 Can we move on and talk about more important things like which came
first, the chicken or the egg..
 
 xoxo
 sweet dreams-






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[AsburyPark] Re: It's Official: Help to Homeowners Now Completely Out of Bailout Plans

[Gabrielle Obre]

Ok, I hear you. Keady has never condemned the acts of Karenga. 

I don't really care about Councilman Keady's personal opinions on
Columbus day or Kwanzaa. I care that as a councilman he treats them
with fairness and a sense of responsibility to the city. Given what he
has posted here, that seems to be the case.

I have never seen Keady bash Columbus day from the dais. Perhaps it is
not wise for councilmen to meld their personal passions with duties as
an elected official. As a voter, his attention to transparency and
communication with the community trumps that lack of wisdom.

I understand your gripe and I don't think its that way off. I just
don't share your personal offense and it really seems you have a
personal issue with Keady. 

Lets move on, we are boring Juicy Jen.



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleobre@ 
 wrote:
 
  Tommy you are impossible.  Keady isn't unsupportive of columbus day 
 or
  kwanzaa...he is against the use of public funds for both events.
  Totally understandable given that the city is broke.
 
 Gabbi words mean things.  If you are going to comment on what I write, 
 please read it first.
 
 I said that He is unsupportive of the City's Columbus and Kwanaa 
 celebrations.  Not in general, the City's celebration.  That's what 
 he opposes.  That's His position, and you can't change that.
 
 That being said, he actually does oppose Columbus Celebrations in 
 general, evidenced by his past vitriolic attacks on the celebration in 
 public, not printed here.
 
 He wants Columbus celebrations infused with bad stories of Columbus.
 
 He does not similarly insist those who celebrate Kwanzaa infuse their 
 ceremonies with terrible crimes of Karenga.
 
 That is His hyporcrisy which I've repeated over and over that neither 
 He nor you nor any other of His supporters will comment on.
 
 Now go ahead and reply without again commenting on that differing 
 treatment by Him of the two groups.  Comment on something else so you 
 don't have to face that he's wrong.
 
 I'll just cite it again after that, and you can ignore it again and 'll 
 ask you again and you'll ignore it again and it will never end.
 
 Let's not do that. 
 
 Go talk about a private property owner who lights up his own hotel.  
 It's more important than a biased councilman.






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[AsburyPark] Re: Responding to Mr. Keady's lies (again)

[Gabrielle Obre]

Well perhaps they don't exist in your world mike. all I know is i
couldn't have voted 100 years ago. i can now. that to me proves we are
moving to greater and greater fairness and equality. its a process,
will probably never be an end point. but it matters to me and I hope i
treat people fairly.

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Mike Hemeon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Is fairness like equality? Neither exist in the real world.
 
 --- On Wed, 11/12/08, Gabrielle Obre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 From: Gabrielle Obre [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Responding to Mr. Keady's lies (again)
 To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:19 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Tommy you are hilarious. you do exactly what you accuse others of,
 which is actually a pretty common human foible. its called projection.
 
 why not have the discussion center on the celebrations and whether/how
 they should be supported by public funds/administratio n and get to a
 sense of fairness, instead of prodding at Keady.
 
 you watch too much Fox. check out some writing on non violent
 communication or Physicist David Bohm's book On Dialogue. Attorney
 speak has its value in a courtroom, not in a community like this.
 
 Keady's position seems pretty clear. he is against the funding of both
 celebrations which makes sense considering the financial state of AP.
 Like me buying a 30$ bottle of wine.
 
 His desire to have more truth told about Columbus is completely
 reasonable and doesn't suggest it go away.
 
 you seem to never be able to be satisfied with any answer that
 counters your desire to have something to be offended by. 
 
 --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com, justifiedright
 justifiedright@ ... wrote:
 
  Mr. Keady, your rhetorical game is clear.
  
  Your entire post is personalizing about you and me.
  
  You speak in laudatory terms about yourself and malign me.
  
  The issue, however, is again completely ignored.
  
  Your Apostles can yell Bitch Slap and Oh Snap all they wish, but
  neither of them will address the issue either.
  
  I judge you on positions you take. I have supported some of those
  positions at times, and quite publicly. But your ledger is one sided.
  You'll never credit the times I've supported you, and you will
  personalize against me when I disagree with a policy.
  
  So I'll state the issue again, on the sliver of hope that you or one
  of your Apostles will dare address it:
  
  I understand that you object to Columbus Day and Kwanzaa on the basis
  that you think the City should not expend public resources on either.
  
  My disagreement with you aside, at least you are consistent.
  
  My complaint about you is this:
  
  You put your lengthy public stance on the record each year against
  Columbus Day, which is reported in the paper, on the basis that
  Columbus did bad things, and you insist that information should be
  taught that day.
  
  You do not put a lengthy public stance against Kwanzaa on the record.
  You do not insist insist that as people celebrate that week, they
  should teach about the disgusting crimes of Ron Karenga - Kwanzaa's
  founder.
  
  It is on that ISSUE that you suffer hypocrisy. The different
  treatment is about votes, no matter how much you deny it.
  
  I take it I don't have to respond to the probing, thoughtful analysis
  of the issue provided by your Apostles in the form of Bitch Slap and
  Oh Snap.
  
  
  
  --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com, jwkeady james.keady@  wrote:
  
   Mr. Deseno:
   
   You wrote:
   
   The reason is you fear no loss of votes over Columbus, so you let 
   your bigotry toward that cultural identification fly in public. You 
   fear loss of votes over Kwanzaa, so you make your objection to
   Kwanzaa only in the proverbial smokey back room.
   
   While you may make political decisions based on vote
calculations and 
   encourage those you support to do the same, I do not. I have always 
   and will continue to do my homework on an issue, ask relevant 
   questions regarding that issue, then vote my conscience. If you
want 
   someone who changes his mind based on which way the political
wind is 
   blowing and how it might impact votes, I am not your guy. If you 
   want someone like that, you may want to continue to support your 
   party's most recent Presidential candidate. 
   
   It is clear that more than once in my tenure on City Council I have 
   upset some of my most strident supporters for decisions I have made 
   from the dais. I was not elected to make sure that I keep everyone 
   happy. I was elected to try and execute the platform on which I
ran, 
   to be a responsible steward of taxpayer dollars, and to uphold the 
   laws of our nation, our state and our city, and this what I have
done 
   to the best of my abilities. 
   
   Mr. Deseno, you have never, nor do I imagine you will ever, be a 
   supporter of mine. And believe me, I do not mind that as I find
your 
   politics short-sighted

[AsburyPark] Re: Responding to Mr. Keady's lies (again)

[Gabrielle Obre]

I would NEVER be a hater of JR. I took your answer as sort of
flippant. And what I need is a serious education on the budget. I also
see no reason why it can't be presented in an accessible manner. I
don't think its as simple a discussion as you suggest. I think there
is an argument for going over the spending line by line...or at least
by department. maybe im wrong. but if the city keeps have debt year
after year, the taxpayers are going to have a serious problem.

and you weren't the only one. someone emailed me privately.

I truly do see your side in the whole kwanzaa/colmbus/christmas thing.
imo you seem to get hung up on personal offenses is all. the budget is
clearly more important than keady and your personal causes.

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
 gabrielleobre@ wrote:
 
 I just like
  to get to the bottom of things, like why does Tommy try to divert
  potential discussions of the city budget into personal brouhahas.
 
 Gabbi, when you first proposed a discussion on the City budget a few 
 weeks back, I was the only one who responded.  I discussed mandated 
 vs discretionary spending.
 
 I was the only one who responded and tried to further your 
 discussion.  THE ONLY ONE!
 
 How in the world then do I go from being the only one who responded, 
 to your quote above that I'm trying to avoid it?
 
 I like you here and think you are a fun read.  Are you becomming a 
 full blown JR hater like the other Aposltes?
 
 Are you, Mary M?






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[AsburyPark] Re: Council Meeting - Lighting Costs

[Gabrielle Obre]

As obvious as dealing with your personal electric consumption habits.
Another reason to get a formal citizen discussion of the budget
together. line by line as keady suggested. Or at least get some kind
of report from the citizen budget committee. isn't there one?

have any idea how much AP spend on electricity? how does it compare to
other comparable cities?



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 At last nights CM the budget/bond discussion led me to make comment
 about the large waste being displayed by both the City and the
 Developers in electric consumption.
 
 I brought to their attention the large number of industrial light
 fixtures that are on utility poles, City property and the ConHall.
 
 My point was that there are a lot of redundant, unneeded fixtures that
 are costing everyone $$$ to operate. Some utility poles have 3
 separate lights on them in the same location. The ConHall has
 beautiful 1930s lighting that is being drowned out by unneeded flood
 lights.
 
 I asked who is responsible for the costs of publicly located fixtures,
 my 3 minutes were up and there was no answer, on to business.
 
 Later on during one of the Ordinance hearings I raised
 'point-of-order' and demanded an answer. Finally got one..
 The City pays the costs of lighting. That would be the taxpayers.
 
 It would reduce our budget deficit to remove redundant lighting and
 use only energy efficient fixtures. The developers would benefit
 financially also to follow the same path.
 
 Again, no comment or discussion from our leaders... Blank Stares.
 
 Werner






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[AsburyPark] Re: Budget

[Gabrielle Obre]

Awesome. But the budget as it looks now is pretty incomprehensible.
There must be a way to simplify it. Though maybe a first step is to
simply create a PDF of it. The city should have it in that form.  I am
willing to put in some time to do data entry into a spreadsheet out of
which something could be created, but someone who knows this stuff is
going to have to oversee what I do to make sure it is accurate.

There is surely a way to break it down into simple categories to give
people an idea of what is being spent where. 

you throw as many insults as anyone. making fun of the lights is a
perfect example. and I assume that is part of public works? You can't
really make fun of the suggestion we cut energy usage in this day and age.




--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I'm changing the topic heading so we don't see that whole Lie 
 thing posted any more.
 
 Gabbi my answer to your budget question was not flippant.  I was 
 moving the discussion along by narrowing the focus.
 
 Much of the budget is mandatory spending.  You can't touch it.  It's 
 mandatory.
 
 The three large areas of discretionary spending are Police, Fire and 
 Public Works.  That's where you have to look to save money.
 
 You could throw in Administration too.
 
 My point last time was that I doubt anyone in AP is going to want to 
 cut the police and fire budgets (I could be wrong).
 
 Those are the areas that you are likely to spend the most time 
 looking at.
 
 I'm not being flippant and trying to end the discussion.  I'm trying 
 now like last time to get it going.
 
 If anyone wants to get the budget I'll pledge the use of my 
 equipment to turn it into a pdf and put it online so we can see it 
 and discuss it.
 
 But I know this board - all talk no action.
 
 Lets throw out some insults instead!
 
 Blinded by the lights.






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[AsburyPark] Re: Budget

[Gabrielle Obre]

Nevermind. what are your thoughts on what I wrote about the budget?

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
 gabrielleobre@ wrote:
 
 
  you throw as many insults as anyone. 
 
 No I don't. Ever.  I take great pains not to personalize.  I point 
 it out when others do.
 
 
 making fun of the lights is a
  perfect example. and I assume that is part of public works? You 
 can't
  really make fun of the suggestion we cut energy usage in this day 
 and age.
 
 Disagreement on an issue is not making fun.
 
 I think the lights should be as bright as possible.  AP still has a 
 bad rep as scary place with bad folks waiting around every corner to 
 get you.
 
 Bright lights and filling a place with the activity of people is how 
 you fight that.
 
 Now is no the time for Asbury Park to dim the lights.  I have no 
 objection to folks doing it in their homes.  
 
 Right now, Asbury Park needs to be lit up so people are not afraid 
 of her.






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[AsburyPark] Re: Budget

[Gabrielle Obre]

I have a hard copy. Just got off the phone with someone at the finance
office. she was unaware if a PDF version exists and didn't seem too
interested in finding out. My scanner is not legal paper size. The
budget is 44 pages.

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
 gabrielleobre@ wrote:
 
  Nevermind. what are your thoughts on what I wrote about the budget?
 
 Probable won't have much to say until we get a PDA of the budget.
 
 It will lead to an interesting discussion about priorities instead of 
 platitudes.  Time to put philosophy into practice.
 
 Should be interesting to see if this group can handle that.






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[AsburyPark] Re: Budget

[Gabrielle Obre]

that would cost me 30 bucks. does anyone have a fax machine? or can't
i just get this to you?

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Go over to the UPS store near Clancy's Tavern and Fax it to me.
 
 732-807-7294.
 
 My system automatically turns it into a PDF.  I'll then post it to 
 the Group.
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
 gabrielleobre@ wrote:
 
  I have a hard copy. Just got off the phone with someone at the 
 finance
  office. she was unaware if a PDF version exists and didn't seem 
 too
  interested in finding out. My scanner is not legal paper size. The
  budget is 44 pages.
  
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
  justifiedright@ wrote:
  
   --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
   gabrielleobre@ wrote:
   
Nevermind. what are your thoughts on what I wrote about the 
 budget?
   
   Probable won't have much to say until we get a PDA of the budget.
   
   It will lead to an interesting discussion about priorities 
 instead of 
   platitudes.  Time to put philosophy into practice.
   
   Should be interesting to see if this group can handle that.
  
 






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[AsburyPark] Re: Budget

[Gabrielle Obre]

Just spoke with him, faxing would take forever, he is going to ask
Reidy to have a PDF created and posted on the city's website


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 See if JK is down at City Hall.  He can put it in the fax at the 
 City.  Local call so it won't cost the City any money.
 
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
 gabrielleobre@ wrote:
 
  that would cost me 30 bucks. does anyone have a fax machine? or 
 can't
  i just get this to you?
  
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
  justifiedright@ wrote:
  
   Go over to the UPS store near Clancy's Tavern and Fax it to me.
   
   732-807-7294.
   
   My system automatically turns it into a PDF.  I'll then post it 
 to 
   the Group.
   
   --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
   gabrielleobre@ wrote:
   
I have a hard copy. Just got off the phone with someone at the 
   finance
office. she was unaware if a PDF version exists and didn't 
 seem 
   too
interested in finding out. My scanner is not legal paper size. 
 The
budget is 44 pages.

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
justifiedright@ wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
 gabrielleobre@ wrote:
 
  Nevermind. what are your thoughts on what I wrote about 
 the 
   budget?
 
 Probable won't have much to say until we get a PDA of the 
 budget.
 
 It will lead to an interesting discussion about priorities 
   instead of 
 platitudes.  Time to put philosophy into practice.
 
 Should be interesting to see if this group can handle that.

   
  
 






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[AsburyPark] Re: Budget

[Gabrielle Obre]

The budget should be in PDF on the site to begin with. I'll check
again on monday.




--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 44 pages = forever?  
 
 How old is the City's fax machine?
 
 Maybe the first budge item is to buy them a new one.
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
 gabrielleobre@ wrote:
 
  Just spoke with him, faxing would take forever, he is going to ask
  Reidy to have a PDF created and posted on the city's website
  
  
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
  justifiedright@ wrote:
  
   See if JK is down at City Hall.  He can put it in the fax at the 
   City.  Local call so it won't cost the City any money.
   
   
   
   --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
   gabrielleobre@ wrote:
   
that would cost me 30 bucks. does anyone have a fax machine? 
 or 
   can't
i just get this to you?

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
justifiedright@ wrote:

 Go over to the UPS store near Clancy's Tavern and Fax it to 
 me.
 
 732-807-7294.
 
 My system automatically turns it into a PDF.  I'll then post 
 it 
   to 
 the Group.
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
 gabrielleobre@ wrote:
 
  I have a hard copy. Just got off the phone with someone at 
 the 
 finance
  office. she was unaware if a PDF version exists and 
 didn't 
   seem 
 too
  interested in finding out. My scanner is not legal paper 
 size. 
   The
  budget is 44 pages.
  
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
  justifiedright@ wrote:
  
   --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
   gabrielleobre@ wrote:
   
Nevermind. what are your thoughts on what I wrote 
 about 
   the 
 budget?
   
   Probable won't have much to say until we get a PDA of 
 the 
   budget.
   
   It will lead to an interesting discussion about 
 priorities 
 instead of 
   platitudes.  Time to put philosophy into practice.
   
   Should be interesting to see if this group can handle 
 that.
  
 

   
  
 






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[AsburyPark] Re: Budget

[Gabrielle Obre]

hey maybe that's the answer to ap budget woes. legal prostitution.
what with the economy tanking there are surely some game chicks.  just
the other day while discussing the spitzer saga a very respectable
looking guy said to me hey we all pay for it. not in my immediate
realm, but who am i to bash the other options in the noosphere.
there's all sorts of prostitution going on anyway.

i never get to see ap hookers. how much do they charge?



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote:
 
  I disagree. It's not the lights that scared the prostitutes away, 
 it's our PD and other task 
 
 
 well my daughter told me a kid she graduated with was spotted on the 
 streets hooking wig and all. 18 years old.
 
 Hopefully someone help her get going in a different profession.






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[AsburyPark] Re: Budget

[Gabrielle Obre]

that was snort worthy! funny

tommy, no one offered up the fax machine. sorry, but im not dropping
30 bucks. if someone gives me 20 ill chip in 10 and do it tomorrow,
otherwise we can wait for the city.


-


-- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre
 gabrielleobre@ wrote:
 
  hey maybe that's the answer to ap budget woes. legal prostitution.
  what with the economy tanking there are surely some game chicks.  just
  the other day while discussing the spitzer saga a very respectable
  looking guy said to me hey we all pay for it. not in my immediate
  realm, but who am i to bash the other options in the noosphere.
  there's all sorts of prostitution going on anyway.
  
  i never get to see ap hookers. how much do they charge?
  
 
 
 Like the old joke of the senior couple who tried to supplement their
 income by the wife hooking. After her first day on the streets
 
 how'd you do? the husband asked 
 
 $20.10 replied the wife
 
 what cheap bastard gave you $0.10? he asked
 
 they all did she said






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[AsburyPark] Re: Copy of the Budget

[Gabrielle Obre]

reposting here. I have a hard copy version but im not dropping 30
bucks. ill chip in 10 and go to ups if someone covers the rest. or
deliver my version to a free fax source. or we can wait.

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Thank you Mr. Keady. I sent a post before about this but it hasn't 
 shown up yet.
 
 I will post the budget here when it comes to me.
 
 When I get the budget I will send the pdf to you if you will tell me 
 what email address I should use.
 
 If anyone else here wants one emailed to them just let me know.
 
 Use my email address DeSeno @ msn.com.
 
 It is know after 5 and I still don't have the fax so I assume it 
 isn't coming tonight.  
 
 I'll check again in a couple of hours.
 
 
 
 
 
 -- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, James Keady james.keady@ 
 wrote:
 
  Mr. Deseno, 
  
   
  
  As per your request, I just placed a call to City Hall and the 
 budget will
  be faxed to you today.  If for some reason you to not receive it 
 by the
  close of business today, please email me tomorrow morning and I 
 will follow
  up.  Once you have received the budget, I would welcome receiving 
 the PDF
  file you plan to create and I will make sure that it is 
 appropriately placed
  on the City's website.  
  
   
  
  Thank you for your concern with this matter.  
  
   
  
  Peace, JWK 
  
   
  
  Councilman James W. Keady
  
  1 Municipal Plaza
  
  Asbury Park, NJ 07712
  
  TEL: 732.502.5196
  
  EM: james.keady@
  
  www.cityofasburypark.com
  
   
  
  
  
  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 






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[AsburyPark] Re: Stand Up For ........

[Gabrielle Obre]

SUFA taught me something I never expected to learn. 

Fear of the poor is quite possibly the ugliest human attribute there is. 



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy 
 angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 
 
  32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall 
 separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from 
 the goats: 
 
  33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the 
 left. 
 
  34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye 
 blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the 
 foundation of the world: 
 
  35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye 
 gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 
 
  36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in 
 prison, and ye came unto me. 
 
  37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we 
 thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 
 
  38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and 
 clothed thee? 
 
  39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 
 
  40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto 
 you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my 
 brethren, ye have done it unto me. 
 
  41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, 
 ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his 
 angels: 
 
  42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and 
 ye gave me no drink: 
 
  43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me 
 not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 
 
  44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an 
 hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, 
 and did not minister unto thee? 
 
  45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch 
 as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 
 
  46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the 
 righteous into life eternal.






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[AsburyPark] Re: So how about those beachfront lights?

[Gabrielle Obre]

hilarious. so which vapid bag of bones are you an anonymous shill for?
I know Werner's house makes him vulnerable, but someone with issues
with Werner who is not railing against the Metropolitan, Desperanza or
various other visual atrocities has some serious perception problems. 


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, maubddny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The only light in Asbury I would like to be dimmer is the one in front 
 of Werner's house.






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[AsburyPark] Re: It's Official: Help to Homeowners Now Completely Out of Bailout Plans

[Gabrielle Obre]

Your prejudice against him IS showing Jack, fortunately for you,
Tommy's prejudice against Keady is flying like a huge red flag.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Jack what the hell are you talking about?  This column is about the
 topic Oak and Mario and Jennifer and others have been discussing all
day.
 
 Your prejudice against me is showing.
 
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote:
 
  Read it. But it's in the wrong group forum. It should be in
 politics, just as the moderator 
  said. Political discussions shouldn't be here after Wed. It's Wed.
  Now, I'm sure Tommy will argue that this relates to AP, but the
 article doesn't demonstrate 
  a connection to AP.
  And Tommy, if you are so against the political group, because you
 think there will be 
  censorship, then I'll make you an admin. How does that sound. Please
 spare this group 
  from endless discussions that have nothing to do with AP.
  
  
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
 justifiedright@ wrote:
  
   Read it and weep:
   
   Paulson Speaks. But Will It Move Markets?
   
   By Liz Peek
   Financial Columnist
   
   Treasury Secretary Paulson held a press conference today to explain
   why his department has shifted the focus of the TARP program from
   buying distressed assets to injecting capital into banks.
   
   Financial Meltdown
   
   He emphasized that the goals of the program –- to stabilize the
   financial system and spur lending –- have not changed. However, in
   response to shifting events and the threat of potential systemic
   disruption from bank failures, Paulson and his team deemed direct
   capital infusions a more effective prop to the economy. Going
forward,
   Paulson emphasized that his three objectives were strengthening the
   capital base of the financial system, shoring up the asset-backed
   securities market (which is key to lending in numerous consumer
   sectors) and working to mitigate mortgage foreclosures.
   
   As to the latter, Paulson pointed to the FDIC's proposed loan
   modification metrics used at IndyMac as a guidepost to similar
   efforts. He called the agreement reached yesterday with Fannie
Mae and
   Freddie Mac extraordinary progress in attempting to limit mortgage
   foreclosures. He said, I have been working to avoid preventable
   foreclosures for some time and had reviewed innumerable proposals
   aimed at keeping people in their homes, but that mortgage
   modifications were extremely complicated.
   
   As to the outlook, Paulson described the economy's road ahead as
full
   of challenges. Questioned about the outlook for the Big Three
   automakers, clearly one of those `challenges,' Paulson described the
   auto industry as critical, and the administration as supportive of
   manufacturing.
   
   He declined to promise a bailout of the Big Three, however, and
   repeated the administration's view that the solution has to lead to
   long-term viability for the industry.
   
   Mr. Paulson said that there was no timetable for the Treasury to ask
   Congress for the second half of the original $700 billion TARP plan
   and also confirmed that the $700 billion in funds available
should be
   adequate.
   
   The Dow was off over 250 points as Paulson spoke. The secretary's
   comments are unlikely to alleviate investor concerns about the
length
   or depth of the economic downturn, since the numerous federal
programs
   that have already been initiated have barely taken effect. Also, the
   Treasury's flip-flop on the use of TARP funds confirms the reality
   that Paulson and his team are navigating uncharted waters –- and may
   not have the answers that investors so desperately crave.
   
   With the global economy weakening by the day, and with financial
   bailouts in countries like Iceland seemingly under stress, the
capital
   markets continue to struggle. One discouraging sign is that
spreads on
   speculative and investment grade debt have narrowed only a fraction
   from 5 year highs hit on November 4. That is the equivalent, in debt
   markets, of voting with your feet.
  
 






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[AsburyPark] Re: Responding to Mr. Keady's lies (again)

[Gabrielle Obre]

Tommy you are hilarious. you do exactly what you accuse others of,
which is actually a pretty common human foible. its called projection.

why not have the discussion center on the celebrations and whether/how
they should be supported by public funds/administration and get to a
sense of fairness, instead of prodding at Keady.

you watch too much Fox. check out some writing on non violent
communication or Physicist David Bohm's book On Dialogue. Attorney
speak has its value in a courtroom, not in a community like this.

Keady's position seems pretty clear. he is against the funding of both
celebrations which makes sense considering the financial state of AP.
Like me buying a 30$ bottle of wine.

His desire to have more truth told about Columbus is completely
reasonable and doesn't suggest it go away.

you seem to never be able to be satisfied with any answer that
counters your desire to have something to be offended by. 



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, justifiedright
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Mr. Keady, your rhetorical game is clear.
 
 Your entire post is personalizing about you and me.
 
 You speak in laudatory terms about yourself and malign me.
 
 The issue, however, is again completely ignored.
 
 Your Apostles can yell Bitch Slap and Oh Snap all they wish, but
 neither of them will address the issue either.
 
 I judge you on positions you take.  I have supported some of those
 positions at times, and quite publicly.  But your ledger is one sided.
  You'll never credit the times I've supported you, and you will
 personalize against me when I disagree with a policy.
 
 So I'll state the issue again, on the sliver of hope that you or one
 of your Apostles will dare address it:
 
 I understand that you object to Columbus Day and Kwanzaa on the basis
 that you think the City should not expend public resources on either.
 
 My disagreement with you aside, at least you are consistent.
 
 My complaint about you is this:
 
 You put your lengthy public stance on the record each year against
 Columbus Day, which is reported in the paper, on the basis that
 Columbus did bad things, and you insist that information should be
 taught that day.
 
 You do not put a lengthy public stance against Kwanzaa on the record.
  You do not insist insist that as people celebrate that week, they
 should teach about the disgusting crimes of Ron Karenga - Kwanzaa's
 founder.
 
 It is on that ISSUE that you suffer hypocrisy.  The different
 treatment is about votes, no matter how much you deny it.
 
 I take it I don't have to respond to the probing, thoughtful analysis
 of the issue provided by your Apostles in the form of Bitch Slap and
 Oh Snap.
 
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, jwkeady james.keady@ wrote:
 
  Mr. Deseno:
  
  You wrote:
  
  The reason is you fear no loss of votes over Columbus, so you let 
  your bigotry toward that cultural identification fly in public.  You 
  fear loss of votes over Kwanzaa, so you make your objection to
  Kwanzaa only in the proverbial smokey back room.
  
  While you may make political decisions based on vote calculations and 
  encourage those you support to do the same, I do not.  I have always 
  and will continue to do my homework on an issue, ask relevant 
  questions regarding that issue, then vote my conscience.  If you want 
  someone who changes his mind based on which way the political wind is 
  blowing and how it might impact votes, I am not your guy.  If you 
  want someone like that, you may want to continue to support your 
  party's most recent Presidential candidate.  
  
  It is clear that more than once in my tenure on City Council I have 
  upset some of my most strident supporters for decisions I have made 
  from the dais.  I was not elected to make sure that I keep everyone 
  happy.  I was elected to try and execute the platform on which I ran, 
  to be a responsible steward of taxpayer dollars, and to uphold the 
  laws of our nation, our state and our city, and this what I have done 
  to the best of my abilities.  
  
  Mr. Deseno, you have never, nor do I imagine you will ever, be a 
  supporter of mine.  And believe me, I do not mind that as I find your 
  politics short-sighted and self-serving, your tactics intellectually 
  barbaric, and your demeanor two-faced at best. 
  
  Having said that, I hope you enjoy the rest of the day.  
  
  Peace, Councilman Jim Keady
 






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