[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Million dollars to prove cables are worth money
I bet he wants DBT proof From Digg, this link: http://tinyurl.com/2ncuhd James Randi Offers $1 Million If Audiophiles Can Prove $7250 Speaker Cables Are Better. A rant about those $7,250 Pear Anjou speaker cables found its way to the James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF), and Randi offered $1 million to anyone who can prove those cables are any better than ordinary (and also overpriced) Monster Cables. Pointing out the absurd review by audiophile Dave Clark, who called the cables danceable, Randi called it hilarious and preposterous. He added that if the cables could do what their makers claimed, they would be paranormal. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Million dollars to prove cables areworth money
Pat Farrell;231962 Wrote: I bet he wants DBT proof From Digg, this link: http://tinyurl.com/2ncuhd James Randi Offers $1 Million If Audiophiles Can Prove $7250 Speaker Cables Are Better. I saw a video talk by James Randi. He is amazingly cool. One of the situations he talked about was the affect that causes people to think they perceive a stimulus if they think they should. He put a large magnet on a wooden table and had a person wave the coat hanger wire over it, of course the magnet pulled at the wire. He then covered the magnet with a cardboard box while using simple magician slight of hand tricks removed the magnet and put it in his pocket. The person still thought they could feel the magnet pull on the wire even though there was no magnet. -- SuperQ SuperQ's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38902 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Million dollars to prove cables areworth money
Now why would you want to believe some one who's business is to dupe you, ie an illusionist ? The last time I bothered to check ...the small print and exceptions would make it more than impossible to show sound changes between cable. Let alone things like amps or cdp. I can easily test two dissimilar cables [ic] in my own system an show to anyone who cares to pop in for a listen that they will sound different.My test method if you want to try something yourself. the cdp is quad99cdp2 with a fixed and variable output...the difference in sound between these two outputs is non existant using two identical cables. Fit cable A to the variable fit cable B to the fixed output [set the varriable to full output] these are then both taken to a quad 77pre using inputs 1 and 2 which are both electrically identical. Using the hand set to switch between the two, its possible to discriminate between dissimilar cable. Obviously the more different they are the bigger the perceived sound differences. Interestingly using this method with identical cables but different plugs you can hear the effect that various makes of rca connectors have on the signal passing through the cables. Its very clear that some of the more costly plugs don't sound as good as some of those with less base metal ie eichmann silver bullets are the best I've heard at any price but neutrik sy series at about 10% of the cost run them very close.The worse ones are those with two part earth returns that are crimped ie the cheap sort you'd get from maplin in the uk. Only slightly better are the big heavy wbt clones canare and audio note are particularly good but at a price. Remember Randi is an illusionist and therefore he's going to have any so called test weighted heavily in his favourhe's certainly not going to want to payout the illusionary million dollars. I'm happy to let people make there own minds up ...where as some people [randi ?] would like you to conform to there way of thinking. of course this is only my opinion and everyone is allowed to have ! Just don't believe things till you've heard it for yourselves -- zanash Acoustician and builder of interesting cables zanash's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12157 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38902 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Acoustic Foam
I use auralex mopad under my speakers rather than the suplied feet or spikes or other feet I've tried.. these allow the floorstander to be isolated from the floor. The effect is very pleasing in my system and domestic situation. I've heard the effect of platfoam too ...but not any of the room treatment products. I expect they do what it says on the tin but not certain thy will work in a domestic situation [there designed for studios etc] -- zanash Acoustician and builder of interesting cables zanash's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12157 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38859 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Test your ears, Speakers or generate impuls response characteristics of your room!
test your room by claping once and listen to the decay ...much easier and less damaging. I'll second the denson and I've the xlo disc thats relatively safe if you follow the instructions. -- zanash Acoustician and builder of interesting cables zanash's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12157 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Million dollars to prove cables areworth money
zanash;231990 Wrote: Now why would you want to believe some one who's business is to dupe you, ie an illusionist ? Give me a break. The guy is probably the best known scientific skeptic in the USA as of the last 30 years, has written several books on the subject, was awarded a MacArthur grant for his work, and established an educational foundation (the one that would award the $1 million). The fact that he was once a stage magician hardly damages his credibility - on the contrary, it makes him an expert in misdirection, which is what you just rather clumsily attempted. Now why don't you go use your golden ears to become a millionaire? -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38902 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] First shot at using Inguz
esbrewer;231946 Wrote: I checked the pspoints file, and it is indeed set to the bk-3-spline target. I have no explanation as to why DRC is allowing the HF increase to remain. It is my understanding that the HFs are rolled off to varying degrees in the bk target files. I've been reading posts suggesting the ecm8000 (which I used) can be inaccurate in the HF ranges - could this be contributing to that uncorrected upturn? Hmm, possible. I assume you're using an ecm8000 mic correction file? I wonder if you take a new Sweep w/EQ capture, using one of the corrections that you've shown us here, whether you'd get a similar actual response. -- tonyptony tonyptony's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3397 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35615 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Klimax DS - Network Music Player
rexflexall;231771 Wrote: In response to the wireless or wired issue, Linn wanted reliablility in their products and did not wish to struggle with a clients wireless environment. I may ridicule some of Linn's pronouncements from time to time, but in this case I think they have a point. Consider the numerous threads in these forums about dropout problems, and how nearly all of them are eventually traced to wireless networking problems. I think Linn have made a canny decision to avoid any of that headache. On the other hand, given the disruption that would be caused by routing Cat5e/Cat6 through walls, I suspect that many Klimax owners will end up with the server in the listening room. The background noise from a spinning hard disk (even the quietest type) will overwhelm any subtle advantages to be had from the state-of-the-art DAC and analogue circuitry that I assume is inside the Klimax. -- cliveb Transporter - ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 16/44 vs. 24/96 Format Comparison
amey01;231928 Wrote: I know you're disagreeing with me here, but I agree with you also. There can be placebo effect also. There is just so much we don't understand about sound. But really, frequencies in the inaudiable band can affect the way frequencies in the audiable band sound. Which is why we have science (and consequently engineering) and double-blind research studies. If someone just spent $10K on a tone arm, he is going to have a big inducement to think it improved the sound. Ditto for $500/ft cable. -- earthbased earthbased's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=334 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38596 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Klimax DS - Network Music Player
Phil Leigh;231727 Wrote: I'm a Linn devotee (sort of - I love their active speakers and I am devoted to my 5103)... Phil, from your postings here you appear to be that very rare animal - a Linn devotee with a sense of proportion (and a sense of humour). Most Linn afficionados get rather tetchy when the infallibility of Ivor and his products is questioned. I applaud your down-to-earth attitude. -- cliveb Transporter - ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Million dollars to prove cables areworth money
James Randi has offered million-dollar prizes in several other fields as well. To date he has never awarded any money, although he has had claimants. Gee, the test conditions don't seem to be that stringent: http://www.randi.org/research/challenge.html The money does indeed exist, held by a third party: 9. At the formal test, in advance, an independent person will be placed in charge of a personal check from James Randi for US$10,000. In the event that the claimant is successful under the agreed-upon terms and conditions, that check shall be immediately surrendered to the claimant, and within ten days the James Randi Educational Foundation will pay to the claimant the remainder of the reward, for a total of US$1,000,000. One million dollars in negotiable bonds is held by an investment firm in New York, in the James Randi Educational Foundation Prize Account as surety for the prize funds. Validation of this account and its current status may be obtained by contacting the Foundation by telephone, fax, or e-mail. James Randi, as a former professional illusionist, is intimately aware of the power of placebo, the power of suggestion and misdirection and it is precisely because he is such an expert in the field and sees it used so often in many areas to delude others that he does this. There is even a claim that audiophile nuts have actually killed the hobby, preventing it from ever going mainstream. http://www.randi.org/jr/121004science.html#11 I would say there is some truth to that. People who don't believe cables make a difference or do not have 5 figures+ invested in their equipment are made to feel ashamed, ridiculed and belittled for their lack of resources to devote to the hobby, for their inferior hearing abilities or for their adherence to known scientific and engineering principles. It's very intimidating for a newbie and it turns off 99% of the public at large. Which is too bad, because the public at large now believes that good sound comes from 128 kbps MP3 on an iPod or from Bose cubes. -- Mark Lanctot 'Sean Adams' Response-O-Matic checklist, patent pending!' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=200910postcount=2) Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38902 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Million dollars to prove cables areworth money
his business is as an illusionist ..that says it all I don't consider myself to have golden ears...there the same fleshy colour as everyone elses. More to the point why don't you think cables can make a difference ? if you were to get a cable of a slightly higher resistance will that change the sound ? the answer is it has to to maintain ohms law, lowering the signal level and therefore its changed the sound. Cables have two other factors capacitance and inductance if you change one or other of these you change the efect the cable has on the sound. You can then talk about metallurgy of the conductors, there are so many factors at play it amazes me that some people think that this would have no effect on the signal passing through. The next question I always ask is what cables do you use ? its often a surprise to read the answers as almost nobody uses the freebies...but these should sound as good as $1000 set if all cables sound the same ? -- zanash Acoustician and builder of interesting cables zanash's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12157 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38902 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Million dollars to prove cables areworth money
zanash;232067 Wrote: More to the point why don't you think cables can make a difference ? Of course cables make a difference, but is there a difference between expensive cables and horribly expensive cables? And can those differences be measured or detected -- funkstar funkstar's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38902 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] First shot at using Inguz
tonyptony;232034 Wrote: Hmm, possible. I assume you're using an ecm8000 mic correction file? I wonder if you take a new Sweep w/EQ capture, using one of the corrections that you've shown us here, whether you'd get a similar actual response. I believe all of my .drc files refer to the ecm8000 correction file. I suppose that could have changed with a reinstall, I will check. I'm still surprised by the conformity of my min/norm/insane convolutions though. Time to take new measurements I guess. Something isn't right. -- esbrewer esbrewer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35615 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Test your ears, Speakers or generate impuls response characteristics of your room!
Deaf Cat;231881 Wrote: Hi Phil, Do you find after playing it, you actually hear a difference ? Hard to say...if you stay in the room while it is playing it seems to rewire your brain (reminds me of early Hawkwind...) I generally fire up the FLAC every month just to (allegedly) demag the whole system - doesn't seem to do any harm and sometimes I can kid myself it does actually work. I think its main use is in burning in speakers... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... ...SB3+TACT+Altmann+MF DACXV3/Linn tri-amped Aktiv 5.1 system and some very expensive cables ;o) Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Test your ears, Speakers or generate impuls response characteristics of your room!
inguz;231580 Wrote: of course there's a name for that time interval. ohnosecond ;-) ohnosecondwell done! It had me and my co-worker chuckling in the lab over lunch! might use that one if you don't mind. -- sfraser 2 Chan. System SB3-Benchmark DAC-1- Bryston(BP-25,3B)-PMC TB2 Home theater System SB2- Bryston(SP1,4B,4B)- PSB Stratus Goldi sfraser's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2026 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Klimax DS - Network Music Player
cliveb;232037 Wrote: Phil, from your postings here you appear to be that very rare animal - a Linn devotee with a sense of proportion (and a sense of humour). Most Linn afficionados get rather tetchy when the infallibility of Ivor and his products is questioned. I applaud your down-to-earth attitude. Cheers Clive - I learned many years ago that I could never subscribe to that quasi-religious stuff that started in the late 70's... I was lucky enough to buy one of the very first Linn AKtiv systems (after they had the bust up with Naim and launched their own power amps). That alone put me in strange territory with the flat-earth society :o). I've done the whole LP12 bit but had to get out before I went bankrupt! (the CD12 was a bargain by comparison!). I do like Linn gear a lot - I like the engineering which is generally first-rate,,,and I like the sound. I do wish they would start producing sensibly priced gear again. I am not a millionaire, I don't have an Aston Martin or a luxury yacht. That seems to be their primary market these days. Fortunately they do still (just about) make reasonably priced power amps, but I have no idea what I would do if lost my 5103 or speakers... Actually I do. I'd go and get some active ATC's ;o) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... ...SB3+TACT+Altmann+MF DACXV3/Linn tri-amped Aktiv 5.1 system and some very expensive cables ;o) Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Power Supply Question
Greetings all. New SB user here, should have done this a lng time ago. My question is in regard to an upgraded power supply I just purchased and am using. Bought at Hosfelt Electronics, regulated 5V 1.5amp puppy, I bought a DC plug, checked polarity..soldered correctly and seems to function without issue. So my question, does the fluorescent display normally run warm? Honestly I never felt it with the original supply wall wart, but was wondering if it is normal. Just paranoid I guess.I could switch it back but that would mean getting back into the rats nest.thanks in advance for any info PS: Good lord, just saw the above post about the power supply thread issue, I am honestly just wanting some info.no flaming or heated discussions is intended, honestly...thanks -- bobcel bobcel's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13405 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38926 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Klimax DS - Network Music Player
Phil Leigh;232089 Wrote: I've done the whole LP12 bit but had to get out before I went bankrupt! I did go through the Linn/Naim phase a long time ago. I still have the LP12/Lingo/Ittok/Karma. If I was in the market for a turntable today, the LP12 wouldn't be on the shortlist, but it does the job rather well. Phil Leigh;232089 Wrote: I have no idea what I would do if lost my 5103 or speakers... Actually I do. I'd go and get some active ATC's ;o) Do it now, you know it makes sense :-) My SCM100A's replaced a pair of Isobariks and Naim 135s. Night and day is an oft-abused term in audio circles, but in this case it is entirely justified. -- cliveb Transporter - ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Acoustic Foam
I can just vouch for the mopads, under my mains, and the subdude, under my sub. I was having lots of extra vibes and rattling going on and for as inexpensive as these items were, they work awesome. Good clean bass, really cut down on the window rattles...except for the occasional explosion or depth charge, very nice. -- bobcel bobcel's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13405 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38859 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Klimax DS - Network Music Player
Thing is, my whole system is active (6x2-channel amps - 3 front, 1 centre, 2 rear) ...could get rather expensive... I only have the one large living room and can't seperate my AV and stereo. Actually, I don't want to. Movies sound GREAT! -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... ...SB3+TACT+Altmann+MF DACXV3/Linn tri-amped Aktiv 5.1 system and some very expensive cables ;o) Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Klimax DS - Network Music Player
Phil Leigh;232102 Wrote: Thing is, my whole system is active (6x2-channel amps - 3 front, 1 centre, 2 rear) ...could get rather expensive... Compared to the cost of a full active Linn (or Naim) setup, ATCs are actually pretty cheap. (And they sound better, of course :-). -- cliveb Transporter - ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Power Supply Question
Yes, the SB runs warm. It is normal. If the supply provides 5V it should not harm the unit or cause any other problems. TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38926 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Power Supply Question
Thank you so much, I appreciate it -- bobcel bobcel's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13405 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38926 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Million dollars to prove cables areworth money
funkstar;232069 Wrote: Of course cables make a difference, but is there a difference between expensive cables and horribly expensive cables? And can those differences be measured or detected I'm sure many think there are. Proving it though is the million dollar question. The standard audiophile response is to attack the credibility of the tester and the test itself. If they can't prove their point then the test is rigged. :rolleyes: Once one has faith, then their belief is always right, regardless of the facts. -- Bizarroterl Bizarroterl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13250 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38902 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Test your ears, Speakers or generate impuls response characteristics of your room!
zanash;231993 Wrote: test your room by claping once and listen to the decay ...much easier and less damaging. No need at the mo, its terrible :o , or if you like echos its Fab, I need a rug, book shelves, drape things etc... all in the plan :) Safe is good :D Phil Leigh;232086 Wrote: Hard to say...if you stay in the room while it is playing it seems to rewire your brain (reminds me of early Hawkwind...) I generally fire up the FLAC every month just to (allegedly) demag the whole system - doesn't seem to do any harm and sometimes I can kid myself it does actually work. I think its main use is in burning in speakers... I'll er have a bash at rugs books etc before I worry about the Denson cd then ;) however, the idea is now lodged and if one pops up I'll give it a go. :) -- Deaf Cat Deaf Cat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=515 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Million dollars to prove cables areworth money
Ah yes but does he have the golden ears all the audiophiles have? Probably not. He's getting on in years, his HF hearing probably isn't perfect. A million dollars does buy a lot of stuff, even Pear Anjou cables. -- Mark Lanctot 'Sean Adams' Response-O-Matic checklist, patent pending!' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=200910postcount=2) Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38902 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Million dollars to prove cables areworth money
Everyone knows the Pear Bartlett, Comice and Bosc blow the Anjous out of the water! -- Videodrome Two-channel System: SB3 - Behringer SRC2496 - Musiland MD-10 DAC; Outlaw 970 Pre/Pro; McCormack DNA-125 amplifier; Quad 11L speakers; Sota Sapphire ttbl. w/ Grado Ref. Platinum Cartridge - Rolls Bellari VP-129 tube phono stage; Marantz 10b; Nakamichi RX505; Cables Used: DH Labs, Van den Hul, Distech, Monster, many more. Videodrome's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11727 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38902 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter Lockup
i noticed mine was happening everytime I turned it on and tried to access the Music Folder. Guessing it was a network issue regarding access to my ever growing collection I thought there was nothing anybody could do. However, the latest version of SS (or should i say SC now) has stopped this completely. By the way, I am using the nightly builds of SS7. I have on a couple of occassions in the past had the menu lock-up for a couple of mintues while the music still played but then the menu caught up with any button presses afterwards (music unnaffected and no need for a reboot). This has not happened recently though. -- MikeFish MikeFish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12860 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38578 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter Lockup
MikeFish;232147 Wrote: i noticed mine was happening everytime I turned it on and tried to access the Music Folder. Guessing it was a network issue regarding access to my ever growing collection I thought there was nothing anybody could do. However, the latest version of SS (or should i say SC now) has stopped this completely. By the way, I am using the nightly builds of SS7. I have on a couple of occassions in the past had the menu lock-up for a couple of mintues while the music still played but then the menu caught up with any button presses afterwards (music unnaffected and no need for a reboot). This has not happened recently though. It sure is beginning to sound like there are some issues with the Transporter that owners have simply learned to put up with. (I agree with an earlier poster that this is unacceptable with a unit in this price range.) Hopefully, this thread will be brought to the attention of somebody at Slim/Logitech, and this will be investigated further. What version of the Transporter firmware is in the latest 7.x builds? I have a test system that I could use to run 7.x, without impacting my other units. -- CraigStevenson CraigStevenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8219 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38578 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] VDC-SB: Power supply for SB from CIAudio
Has anyone ordered one yet? If so, let it know how it looks, sounds, etc. Thanks -- USAudio SB3 - PS Audio Digital Link III - PS Audio Trio C-100 - Revel Concerta F12's / SVS SB12-Plus USAudio's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8580 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38738 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter Lockup
CraigStevenson;232153 Wrote: Hopefully, this thread will be brought to the attention of somebody at Slim/Logitech, and this will be investigated further Hi Craig, Unless the issue has been reported though the proper channels then it will not be assigned to anyone to fix, that is why I asked earlier if anyone has logged the problem. I the past when I logged problems I was told not to do so until I loaded the latest update. I have stepped back to 6.5.1 (no problem so far) and therefore cannot log the problem. regards -- Greg Erskine Greg Erskine's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7403 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38578 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter Lockup
The latest nightly builds (for the last 3 or 4 weeks) uses FW32 for the Transporter. This has only been modified for better sync'ing (I think) from FW31 which has been used since about 6.5.4. Just to reitterate, SS7 was using FW31 until a few weeks ago, but is now on FW32. -- MikeFish MikeFish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12860 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38578 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter Lockup
Greg Erskine;232159 Wrote: Hi Craig, Unless the issue has been reported though the proper channels then it will not be assigned to anyone to fix, that is why I asked earlier if anyone has logged the problem. I the past when I logged problems I was told not to do so until I loaded the latest update. I have stepped back to 6.5.1 (no problem so far) and therefore cannot log the problem. regards I just logged a report through the proper channels. I did reference this thread. Hopefully, somebody will contact us here, and see what the common factors are. -- CraigStevenson CraigStevenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8219 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38578 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter Lockup
CraigStevenson;232162 Wrote: I just logged a report through the proper channels. I did reference this thread. Hopefully, somebody will contact us here, and see what the common factors are. Excellent ! -- Greg Erskine Greg Erskine's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7403 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38578 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter Lockup
I just got done installing the October 2 build of SqueezeCenter 7.0 for testing. Although it is still early, after about 10-15 minutes, I could not reproduce the issues that I reported earlier, when using 6.5.4. There were a couple of times when I noticed a brief hesitation, but nothing approaching what I was seeing before. And I know in several of those instances, a brief message was flashed on the screen. Something about reloading... (Obviously, it wasn't there very long, because I couldn't read it.) And there was some sort of circular progress or activity icon in the top right, so I know that these short delays were entirely normal. Even when I held down the keys on the remote, the Transporter scrolled through everything quickly. I'm going to continue to test through the rest of this week. I do run a couple of plugins, so I think I will introduce them one at a time, after I'm satisfied that there isn't a problem with the basic 7.0 software/firmware. Perhaps one of them was causing the problem. I haven't tried 7.0 since January, and I must say, WOW! There has been some real progress made. It really looks nice. I have always felt that the weak link was the software, and it looks like that is going to change. My compliments to the people working on 7.0. I can't get over the improvement. Wow! (Again...) -- CraigStevenson CraigStevenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8219 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38578 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Million dollars to prove cables areworth money
Now why would you want to believe some one who's business is to dupe you, ie an illusionist ? You mean like people that make $7250 speaker cables? ;-) -- Kurt Main Entry: au·dio·phile Pronunciation: 'o-dE-O-fI(-)l Function: noun : a person who takes the pursuit of high-fidelity sound reproduction so seriously that they don't have to listen to music anymore. Kurt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2153 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38902 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter Lockup
CraigStevenson;232177 Wrote: I can't get over the improvement. Wow! (Again...) No offense to you or any of the hardworking chaps that are busy trying to improve the can of worms that is now called Squeezecenter It still stinks to high heaven. . -- haunyack Transporter - BK R200.2 - Vandersteen 3A Signature. (Listening room) SB3 (RWA analog) - Rotel RB1070 - BW Matrix 805. (Bedroom) Fridgidare - Mirror Pond pale ale - easy chair w/remote - irritated neighbors. haunyack's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9721 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38578 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 16/44 vs. 24/96 Format Comparison
earthbased;232035 Wrote: If someone just spent $10K on a tone arm, he is going to have a big inducement to think it improved the sound. Ditto for $500/ft cable. Absolutely! But there is just so much that science and DBT tests (which have been proven inaccurate) can't explain. If you enjoy it then go for it (placebo or not), but just remember that we are not at the pinnacle of reproduced sound quality yet - recordings sound nothing like the live event. Science (or anything else) can't explain this as yet, but it doesn't mean we should stop trying to get better sound quality. -- amey01 amey01's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11274 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38596 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Million dollars to prove cables areworth money
zanash;232067 Wrote: his business is as an illusionist ..that says it all It does? What does it say? Can you give us an actual _logical_ argument why it follows from the fact that he worked as a magician that he is in some way duplicitous in his attack on this aspect of audiophilia? Please note that a further incantation of this mantra does _not_ constitute a logical argument. -- totoro squeezebox 3 - mccormack dna .5 - audio physic tempo 4 totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38902 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Million dollars to prove cables areworth money
zanash;231990 Wrote: Now why would you want to believe some one who's business is to dupe you, ie an illusionist ? You mean like you , Zanash? After all, you are a cable maker. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38902 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 16/44 vs. 24/96 Format Comparison
amey01;231928 Wrote: I know you're disagreeing with me here, but I agree with you also. There can be placebo effect also. There is just so much we don't understand about sound. But really, frequencies in the inaudiable band can affect the way frequencies in the audiable band sound. Can you clarify what you mean? You mean a tone which is inaudible by itself can make an audible difference when played along with another tone? Do you have a reference? -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38596 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] VDC-SB: Power supply for SB from CIAudio
SatoriGFX;231314 Wrote: There are scads of people who deny that power cords make a difference. There are scads of people who say that any cable (power, speaker or otherwise) that sounds different or better must be altering the signal in some way and is not fathfull to the recording. I don't get your point. If changing the power cable makes a difference it means something bizarre is going on with whatever it's plugged into. At that point an audio objectivist would be worried, not conclude that the new cable must have added a coloration and should be removed. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38738 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 16/44 vs. 24/96 Format Comparison
amey01;232189 Wrote: Absolutely! But there is just so much that science and DBT tests (which have been proven inaccurate) can't explain. If you enjoy it then go for it (placebo or not), but just remember that we are not at the pinnacle of reproduced sound quality yet - recordings sound nothing like the live event. Science (or anything else) can't explain this as yet, but it doesn't mean we should stop trying to get better sound quality. Out of curiosity, do you have a reference regarding a well-constructed, statistically significant, double-blind test that has proven to be inaccurate? -- jeffmeh jeffmeh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3986 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38596 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] VDC-SB: Power supply for SB from CIAudio
opaqueice;232198 Wrote: I don't get your point. If changing the power cable makes a difference it means something bizarre is going on with whatever it's plugged into. At that point an audio objectivist would be worried, not conclude that the new cable must have added a coloration and should be removed. I'm not sure why you are having a problem with my statement. Yes, the typical objectivist claim is that cables are cables. That claim is usually followed by something like: And if the cable really does sound different it must contain some sort of filter or be acting as some sort of filter that is altering the signal (not adding anything but removing something). That's a bad thing. I don't want cables to color my sound I want them to transmit the signal unaffected so I can hear just what those who engineered/mastered the music heard. I have met many an objectivist who believes that good, quality, well built cables should all sound the same and anything that doesn't is not transmitting the signal unhampered. So, they will sometimes admit that all cables don't sound the same, they just don't accept that the ones that do sound different are anything other than glorified tone controls/filters that are less accuarate and, in fact, subtractive. -- SatoriGFX SatoriGFX's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8852 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38738 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] VDC-SB: Power supply for SB from CIAudio
SatoriGFX;232204 Wrote: And if the cable really does sound different it must contain some sort of filter or be acting as some sort of filter that is altering the signal (not adding anything but removing something). That's a bad thing. I don't want cables to color my sound I want them to transmit the signal unaffected so I can hear just what those who engineered/mastered the music heard. I have met many an objectivist who believes that good, quality, well built cables should all sound the same and anything that doesn't is not transmitting the signal unhampered. So, they will sometimes admit that all cables don't sound the same, they just don't accept that the ones that do sound different are anything other than glorified tone controls/filters that are less accuarate and, in fact, subtractive. I'm talking about power cables. What signal? What tone control? These are 60Hz sine waves. Again, if a power cable made a difference it would lead our imaginary objectivist to scratch her head in puzzlement and wonder how such a thing is possible at all, not to conclude that the power cables was coloring the sound. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38738 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Million dollars to prove cables areworth money
opaqueice;232195 Wrote: However the situations in which they are audible are typically very extreme (like 30 feet of 24 gauge zip cord compared to decent cables), and even in those extreme cases level matching makes it MUCH harder to hear the differences. OK... so which ones sound better? ;) -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38902 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Million dollars to prove cables areworth money
When I set up my listening room, I read as many articles as I could on whether power and cables make an impact on fidelity. It was impossible to determine which camp was right as both seemed to assert their perspective. When I finally listened and made my own comparisons, I was shocked at the results. I think the key is to listen, in your own environment, or somewhere you can take your time and be in control of the testing environment. Just my .02 for any one else who is seeking to answer this question for themselves. __ Transporter = ATC SCA2 = ATC SCM 100SL AT Ayre C5XE = ATC SCA2 = ATC SCM 100SL AT -- musiklov3r musiklov3r's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13166 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38902 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Million dollars to prove cables areworth money
Good, good...but the question was, do you want to make a million dollars? If anyone actually bothered to look at the challenge conditions, they have nothing to do with the fact that Randi is an illusionist at all. All he has done is ensure that a set of circumstances exist where -he- can't be fooled - because he knows very well how to do this. If you look at the conditions, they are quite reasonable. In fact, it's even up to the applicant to devise a suitable test - but it must be agreed upon by the JREF: Applicant must state clearly what is being claimed as the special ability upon which they wish to be tested, and test protocols must be agreed upon by both parties before any testing will take place. All tests must be designed in such a way that the results are self-evident, so that no judging or voting process is required. We do not design the protocol independently of the applicant, who must provide clear guidelines so that the test(s) may be properly designed and carried out. 1. This is the primary and most important of these rules: Applicant must state clearly in advance, and applicant and JREF will agree upon, what powers and/or abilities will be demonstrated, the limits of the proposed demonstration (so far as time, location and other variables are concerned) and what will constitute both a positive and a negative result. 15. EVERY APPLICANT MUST AGREE UPON WHAT WILL CONSTITUTE A CONCLUSION THAT, ON THE OCCASION OF THE PRELIMINARY OR THE FORMAL TEST, HE OR SHE DID OR DID NOT DEMONSTRATE THE CLAIMED ABILITY OR POWER. Every other rule just reinforces this central idea: that it is the applicant who must come up with the test procedure, not the JREF. Randi's previous training could only come into play if the applicant devises a test whereby expectation or misdirection can be employed. He would be most sensitive to that and would be able to detect it very well - better than almost anyone. It is, quite simply, a put your money where your mouth is kind of thing, to put it bluntly and to put out some flame bait here. But quite frankly I'm getting tired of all the BS I see here, so flame away...or better yet, rather than flaming me, use your superhuman hearing abilities to become a million dollars richer. Randi clearly is putting his money where his mouth is, in a very public way. I don't see Pear Cables doing the same - in fact, their lawyers have probably told them very specifically how to word their outlandish claims so they can avoid getting sued for false advertising. That may very well happen one day, and the only reason it hasn't yet is because boutique cables have such a limited market. If Proctor Gamble marketed laundry detergent like exotic cable manufacturers marketed cables, they would have been sued into the stone age... If it is night and day (like it ALWAYS is) then two words: PROVE IT. The onus of proof is on the one making the unverifiable claim. If the difference is that big you ought to be able to drag a crack-head in off the street and he'd be able to tell the difference. But it doesn't even have to go that far, you'd be the one doing the proving using your own test that you devise. What could be easier? -- Mark Lanctot 'Sean Adams' Response-O-Matic checklist, patent pending!' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=200910postcount=2) Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38902 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Million dollars to prove cables areworth money
opaqueice wrote: cables can make. And yes, they are real, and yes, they are sometimes audible. However the situations in which they are audible are typically very extreme (like 30 feet of 24 gauge zip cord compared to decent cables), and even in those extreme cases level matching makes it MUCH harder to hear the differences. Does anyone really use 24 gauge zip any more? Thats closer to bell wire. Even standard 18 gauge Radio Shack zip code is going to make it hard to tell. Bluejeans.com 10 gauge Belden, $.57/foot. So you really pushing 30 amps down your speaker wires? :-) Of course, I can't talk much, I've got some Cardas that are probably also 10 gauge. Came bundled with my amp and speakers. Lets see, 30 amps at 4 ohms 30*30*4 = 3600 watts. My Classé is audiophile class, but it can't deliver that for more than a few milliseconds. Perhaps if I was still using Large Advents ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] VDC-SB: Power supply for SB from CIAudio
Ron F.;231186 Wrote: ...If the UK cables have a core at the end, then the US cables ought to as well and if they don't - an explanation is in order. -Ron The US supplies don't have a core at the end. They don't need one to pass regulatory compliance where the UK supply does. Simple as that. *N.B.:* -This applies to Slim Devices-badged product. Logitech-badged products have the same power supply for all regions. And it doesn't have a ferrite core.- -= Jim -- JimC well, she wasn't all of that, but she sure was some of that. -- BKlaas' college buddy JimC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38738 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Records FLAC 24bit 44.1kHz to DVD Audio???
There seems to be a lot of info here on ripping DVD Audio with a WinDVD hack but I can't find anything about burning one of these files, FLAC 24bit 44.1kHz, to DVD-Audio. Any one care to give a brief synopsis of what authoring software they are using. I'm assuming that the file first needs to be converted to WAV but maybe the correct software does this on the fly? Some of the records are advertised as 5.1 for SACD and I guess I could always order that but some day maybe some of their Studio Master FLAC downloads will support this too. Or maybe I'm way off base in that assumption. Thanks -- Robert_W Robert_W's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6540 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best digital output... Coax or Tos?
gdg;231400 Wrote: If they both sound the same when they are both connected in your setup then the Toslink is probably better. The big advantage of Tos with the Squeezebox is that it isolates downstream components from the noise the SB produces. Since you have both connected even when the Coax is turned off it will be polluting your processor with noise. Disconnecting the coax will in all likelihood improve the Toslink performance. Personally I've notices an improvement in my system with a little more ease when I go with Toslink (though I must admit that the added jitter some people claim Toslink causes won't show up because I reclock with a Big Ben) Thanks gdg. Yep, disconnected the COAX and the TOSlink sounds terrific. I think the PS Audio Digital Link III does a good job handling any added jitter that might have been introduced. http://www.psaudio.com/products/digital_link_iii_overview.asp -- USAudio SB3 - PS Audio Digital Link III - PS Audio Trio C-100 - Revel Concerta F12's / SVS SB12-Plus USAudio's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8580 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38188 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
