Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
there are some nasty spikes out there -- gizek Transporter Adcom GFP-750 Monarchy Audio SM-70Pro monoblocks Proac Studio 100; Cardas Neutral Reference all over gizek's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34337 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Another Transporter that will not power up...
ntang;544148 Wrote: Hi... No...Bought mine new in box from ebay. What difference would it make? Depends on the seller. Some NIB units sold at discount are actually refurbs - which (who knows) may be more prone to certain issues than other units. If the majority of these AC power issues with Transporters are occurring through discount sellers, that could be worth identifying... Hope you get a fix - please let us know! :) -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78170 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DAC Resolution Test and Don't EVER use Digital Volume Control
mswlogo;544022 Wrote: When you turn it down in analog your noise floor goes down with it (for the most part). When you turn it down in digital it does not !! True (subject to the caveat pointed out by Phil). But the whole point I've been trying to get across is that if the noise floor starts out beneath the threshold of human hearing, it doesn't matter that it stays the same when you turn the volume down - you still can't hear it. mswlogo;544033 Wrote: Your saying the noise floor of the room is the limitation and I'm saying it's the DAC. In a simplistic way, I guess that about sums it up. Although my argument is more along the lines that the limitation is an attribute of the whole system: source material, playback devices (including the DAC, amp, speakers), room, and listener. I contend that of these components, the DAC is one of, if not *the*, least compromised component. mswlogo;544033 Wrote: You're also considering that floor as a discrete wall. It's not really, that's the problem. I'm well aware that it is possible to hear signal buried beneath noise. But actually the only discrete wall I've assumed is the threshold of hearing (0dB SPL), and I'm not aware of anyone who believes that a person can perceive anything below that level. All of the examples I've given throughout this thread have been based on an assumption that the listening room has a noise level of 0dB SPL, which is *very* friendly towards your point of view. When you factor in that a typical real-world listening room has an ambient level of at least 20dB SPL (most are more like 30dB SPL), then your argument is even less convincing. -- cliveb Transporter - ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77725 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
gizek;544186 Wrote: there are some nasty spikes out there You can ignore the spikes - they are an artifact of the RMAA software -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
Here is a similar test using RMAA on a Touch with a 16/44.1 RMAA generated test tone file... Note that whilst the Touch is slightly noisier than the TP (but not in a way you can actually hear!) it has less distortion. This is probably showing the difference of the TP PSU vs the Touch and the diference in DAC chips and output circuitry. I'm using a soundcard whose ADC outperforms (less noise/distortion) the one in the other test - so this isn't an apples to apples comparison and no conclusions on Touch vs TP can be drawn. +---+ |Filename: CropperCapture[1].jpg| |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9849| +---+ -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
Here is a similar test using RMAA on a Touch with a 16/44.1 RMAA generated test tone file... Note that whilst the Touch is slightly noisier than the TP (but not in a way you can actually hear!) it has less distortion. This is probably showing the difference of the TP PSU vs the Touch and the diference in DAC chips and output circuitry. I'm using a soundcard whose ADC outperforms (less noise/distortion) the one in the other test - so this isn't an apples to apples comparison and no conclusions on Touch vs TP can be drawn. +---+ |Filename: CropperCapture[1].jpg| |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9849| +---+ -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
Phil Leigh;544213 Wrote: You can ignore the spikes - they are an artifact of the RMAA software Interesting. The spikes are quite clearly a 60Hz fundamental plus harmonics. My initial assumption was that it is some kind of mains frequency breakthrough. But you say it's to do with the software, which confuses me. What possible software issue would create this effect? -- cliveb Transporter - ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
cliveb;544233 Wrote: Interesting. The spikes are quite clearly a 60Hz fundamental plus harmonics. My initial assumption was that it is some kind of mains frequency breakthrough. But you say it's to do with the software, which confuses me. What possible software issue would create this effect? Sorry - I meant the 1k/2k/3k spikes not the AC harmonic ones... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DAC Resolution Test and Don't EVER use Digital Volume Control
I've been thinking about Darren's comments on the DSP x-overs... I'm not sure of the block diagram of the Meridian DSP speakers, but with any multi-way speaker the driver sensitivities are usally different by a small number of dB. One of the benefits of (any form of) active crossover is that this can be taken care of - and response flattened - in the x-over at line level. Given that the DSP's have digital x-overs... and that a digital x-over (unlike an analogue one) cannot boost (0dB!)... IF the drivers need to be adjusted for relative sensitivity (which is almost certain) then there are 2 ways Meridian could do this: 1) by altering the relative ANALOGUE gain of the power amps, post x-over 2) reducing the level of all of them DIGITALLY by different amounts... If they used method 2... then regardless of what you put in, you won't get 96dB of SNR/Dynamic Range out on redbook material. Hypothetical example - let's say the bass and tweeter have sensitivities of 90dB but the midrange has one of 87dB. The Bass and Tweeter will need 3dB of attenuation. This is ignoring any additonal DSP (ie attenuation!) required to flatten the in-band frequency response of the individual drivers themselves. They could be using a hybrid approach with make-up gain in the analogue power amps as well as DSP attenuation. Therefore the problem/issue that mswlogo is describing may well be confined to / exacerbated by the Meridian implementation. This is all speculation - but it would explain the differences in opinion/findings in this thread! -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77725 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Musical Fidelity X-DACv3 and X-PSU v3
Hi, I Have upgraded my X-Dac V3 (replaced all electolytics, super regs, Better PSU, rhodium / gold Rca´s) But one last Mod modification remains.. and that is to upgrade the Clock to a Ultraclock/Superclock. Is there anyone who have the schematics for X-DAV V3 ? Regads /Mats :-) -- omega omega's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9336 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36396 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DAC Resolution Test and Don't EVER use Digital Volume Control
Phil Leigh;544239 Wrote: I've been thinking about Darren's comments on the DSP x-overs... I'm not sure of the block diagram of the Meridian DSP speakers, but with any multi-way speaker the driver sensitivities are usally different by a small number of dB. One of the benefits of (any form of) active crossover is that this can be taken care of - and response flattened - in the x-over at line level. Given that the DSP's have digital x-overs... and that a digital x-over (unlike an analogue one) cannot boost (0dB!)... IF the drivers need to be adjusted for relative sensitivity (which is almost certain) then there are 2 ways Meridian could do this: 1) by altering the relative ANALOGUE gain of the power amps, post x-over 2) reducing the level of some of them DIGITALLY by different amounts... If they used method 2... then regardless of what you put in, you won't get 96dB of SNR/Dynamic Range out on redbook material. Hypothetical example - let's say the bass and tweeter have sensitivities of 90dB but the midrange has one of 87dB. The Bass and Tweeter will need 3dB of attenuation. This is ignoring any additonal DSP (ie attenuation!) required to flatten the in-band frequency response of the individual drivers themselves. They could be using a hybrid approach with make-up gain in the analogue power amps as well as DSP attenuation. Therefore the problem/issue that mswlogo is describing may well be confined to/exacerbated by the Meridian implementation. This is all speculation - but it would explain the differences in opinion/findings in this thread! Exactly, thanks Phil. I think even with analogue boosting each crossover band, which is best case, you're still left with DSP EQ in-band - shifting bits down (in some or perhaps much of the frequency range). Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. (Inguz bass EQ'd) SB3 - (pre bypassed) Krell KAV-300i - PMC AB-1 (caps bass EQ'd) Desktop - Genius Slab SW-flat2.1 700 Sennheiser HD 25-1 II darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77725 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DAC Resolution Test and Don't EVER use Digital Volume Control
darrenyeats;544251 Wrote: Edit: I have said all this already but I'm not complaining. In fact I'm pleased that someone else has looked at it and come to similar conclusions - it means that I'm not going crazy! LOL. Darren Sorry - Darren - didn't mean to repeat you! -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77725 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DAC Resolution Test and Don't EVER use Digital Volume Control
darrenyeats;544251 Wrote: Exactly, thanks Phil. I think even with analogue boosting each crossover band, which is best case, you're still left with DSP EQ in-band - shifting bits down (in some or perhaps much of the frequency range) - as you say. Edit: I have said all this already but I'm not complaining. In fact I'm pleased that someone else has looked at it and come to similar conclusions - it means that I'm not going crazy! LOL. Darren You guys are willing to grab at anything to explain this. I guess you missed the transporter test that doesn't exactly trounce the squeezebox, does it? Only slightly better. But I'm sure that's f'ked up too for some reason. -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77725 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DAC Resolution Test and Don't EVER use Digital Volume Control
darrenyeats;544251 Wrote: Exactly, thanks Phil. I think even with analogue boosting each crossover band, which is best case, you're still left with DSP EQ in-band - shifting bits down (in some or perhaps much of the frequency range) - as you say. Edit: I have said all this already but I'm not complaining. In fact I'm pleased that someone else has looked at it and come to similar conclusions - it means that I'm not going crazy! LOL. Darren You guys are willing to grab at anything to explain this. I guess you missed the transporter test that doesn't exactly trounce the squeezebox, does it? Only slightly better. But I'm sure that's f'ked up too for some reason. -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77725 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
Phil Leigh;544219 Wrote: Here is a similar test using RMAA on a Touch with a 16/44.1 RMAA generated test tone file... Note that whilst the Touch is slightly noisier than the TP (but not in a way you can actually hear!) it has less distortion. This is probably showing the difference of the TP PSU vs the Touch and the diference in DAC chips and output circuitry. I'm using a soundcard whose ADC outperforms (less noise/distortion) the one in the other test - so this isn't an apples to apples comparison and no conclusions on Touch vs TP can be drawn. And it still shows for a 2-bit Shift you lose almost 1-bit of dynamic range. In my book that's a huge loss for a modest change. -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
cliveb;544233 Wrote: Interesting. The spikes are quite clearly a 60Hz fundamental plus harmonics. My initial assumption was that it is some kind of mains frequency breakthrough. But you say it's to do with the software, which confuses me. What possible software issue would create this effect? Good catch. I'll try to locate it. I hate unbalanced analog it's so susceptible that. I bet if I used balanced it would go away. Doing a different test with the exact same rig (in unbalanced analog as well) on the Meridian it's much cleaner. But there is 60hz bump. http://meridianunplugged.com/downloads/ComparisonG68AnalogCalTest/Comparison.htm -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DAC Resolution Test and Don't EVER use Digital Volume Control
mswlogo;544265 Wrote: You guys are willing to grab at anything to explain this. I guess you missed the transporter test that doesn't exactly trounce the squeezebox, does it? Only slightly better. But I'm sure that's f'ked up too for some reason. erm - I'm not trying to explain anything...I'm trying to get to the bottom of why you feel it so important not to attenuate anything digitally at all in YOUR setup, whilst other people (including me) have no issue with the concept, because they can't hear anything very bad happening. I'm pretty certain it isn't because you have golden ears or magic equipment or voodoo recordings! I'm doing some experiments with Omnia Sel Temperat from Carmina Burana - this is an incredibly quiet redbook recording, with a peak level of -33db! If I'm following you correctly, any attenuaton of this track would decimate it? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77725 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DAC Resolution Test and Don't EVER use Digital Volume Control
Phil Leigh;544274 Wrote: erm - I'm not trying to explain anything...I'm trying to get to the bottom of why you feel it so important not to attenuate anything digitally at all in YOUR setup, whilst other people (including me) have no issue with the concept, because they can't hear anything very bad happening. I'm pretty certain it isn't because you have golden ears or magic equipment or voodoo recordings! I'm doing some experiments with Omnia Sel Temperat from Carmina Burana - this is an incredibly quiet redbook recording, with a peak level of -33db! If I'm following you correctly, any attenuaton of this track would decimate it? Thanks for trying. Please stop saying nobody else hears it on their setup as well. There is at least half a dozen folks that jumped in along the way and said, Yup I hear too on my system, and always use Max. -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77725 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DAC Resolution Test and Don't EVER use Digital Volume Control
Phil Leigh;544274 Wrote: erm - I'm not trying to explain anything...I'm trying to get to the bottom of why you feel it so important not to attenuate anything digitally at all in YOUR setup, whilst other people (including me) have no issue with the concept, because they can't hear anything very bad happening. I'm pretty certain it isn't because you have golden ears or magic equipment or voodoo recordings! I'm doing some experiments with Omnia Sel Temperat from Carmina Burana - this is an incredibly quiet redbook recording, with a peak level of -33db! If I'm following you correctly, any attenuaton of this track would decimate it? Thanks for trying. Please stop saying nobody else hears it on their setup as well. There is at least half a dozen folks that jumped in along the way and said, Yup I hear too on my system, and always use Max. -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77725 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DAC Resolution Test and Don't EVER use Digital Volume Control
http://www.mlssa.com/pdf/Upsampling-theory-rev-2.pdf Last para, page 4. There was some mention earlier of all bits not being equal... indeed not. It would seem in fact the best bits are not the MSB's, because they exhibit the most differential non-linearity (aka one form of digital distortion). So it would seem advisable to trade off some SNR for that distortion. After all we humans are highly tolerant of non-correlated broadband noise (Brahms/Band, hiss etc) and highly intolerant of any sort of digital (i.e. unnatural) distortion such as jitter or DNL. So maybe it is better to keep our peaks away from the MSB... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77725 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DAC Resolution Test and Don't EVER use Digital Volume Control
mswlogo;544265 Wrote: I guess you missed the transporter test that doesn't exactly trounce the squeezebox, does it? Only slightly better. mswlogo, I was looking for that but I couldn't find it. Can you send a link please? Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. (Inguz bass EQ'd) SB3 - (pre bypassed) Krell KAV-300i - PMC AB-1 (caps bass EQ'd) Desktop - Genius Slab SW-flat2.1 700 Sennheiser HD 25-1 II darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77725 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DAC Resolution Test and Don't EVER use Digital Volume Control
mswlogo;544284 Wrote: Thanks for trying. Please stop saying nobody else hears it on their setup as well. There is at least half a dozen folks that jumped in along the way and said, Yup I hear too on my system, and always use Max. Yeah, probably because the DSP crossovers are pushing the signal partly under the SNR window as you put it earlier in the thread, of your DACs. I thought we explained that. None of the other technical aspects covered in this thread explain it, IMO. Unless someone wants to pipe in with new information. Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. (Inguz bass EQ'd) SB3 - (pre bypassed) Krell KAV-300i - PMC AB-1 (caps bass EQ'd) Desktop - Genius Slab SW-flat2.1 700 Sennheiser HD 25-1 II darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77725 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DAC Resolution Test and Don't EVER use Digital Volume Control
On 07/05/10 14:18, mswlogo wrote: Please stop saying nobody else hears it on their setup as well. There is at least half a dozen folks that jumped in along the way and said, Yup I hear too on my system, and always use Max. Can you please at least do us the courtesy of reading what we actually say? Phil did *not* say nobody else hears it; he said: ...whilst other people (including me) have no issue with the concept, because they can't hear anything very bad happening. ie. he can't hear anything bad, and he knows others that can't hear anything bad. This is not the same as saying nobody else hears it. R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
Touch graphs +---+ |Filename: CropperCapture[3].jpg| |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9852| +---+ -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
Phil Leigh;544219 Wrote: Here is a similar test using RMAA on a Touch with a 16/44.1 RMAA generated test tone file... Thanks for this. -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. (Inguz bass EQ'd) SB3 - (pre bypassed) Krell KAV-300i - PMC AB-1 (caps bass EQ'd) Desktop - Genius Slab SW-flat2.1 700 Sennheiser HD 25-1 II darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
Phil Leigh;544219 Wrote: Here is a similar test using RMAA on a Touch with a 16/44.1 RMAA generated test tone file... Thanks for this. -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. (Inguz bass EQ'd) SB3 - (pre bypassed) Krell KAV-300i - PMC AB-1 (caps bass EQ'd) Desktop - Genius Slab SW-flat2.1 700 Sennheiser HD 25-1 II darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
mswlogo;544182 Wrote: Enjoy. http://meridianunplugged.com/downloads/ComparisonTransporterDigitalAttenutionTest/Comparison.htm Ah this is what you referred to on the other thread! Thanks. Again, assuming this is accurate, the degradation is very non-linear like with the SB. 2.1db down on the first 12db of attenuation, then a further 8.1db down on the next 12db of attenuation. Of course much lower loss of dynamic range per db of attenuation and, as predicted, yet more non-linear. But I'm surprised the results don't show a much lower loss of dynamic range overall. I don't understand the -6db column. Is the dynamic range really worse at -6db than at -12db? That looks incorrect - or maybe I misunderstand. Was a 16 bit signal used for the test? Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. (Inguz bass EQ'd) SB3 - (pre bypassed) Krell KAV-300i - PMC AB-1 (caps bass EQ'd) Desktop - Genius Slab SW-flat2.1 700 Sennheiser HD 25-1 II darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
darrenyeats;544311 Wrote: Ah this is what you referred to on the other thread! Thanks. Again, assuming this is accurate, the degradation is non-linear like with the SB. 2.1db down on the first 12db of attenuation, then a further 8.1db down on the next 12db of attenuation. Of course much lower loss of dynamic range per db of attenuation and, as predicted, yet more non-linear. But I'm surprised the results don't show a much lower loss of dynamic range overall. I don't understand the -6db column. Is the dynamic range really worse at -6db than at -12db? That looks incorrect - or maybe I misunderstand. Was a 16 bit signal used for the test? Darren There's something odd about THAT test - the DR and Noise results don't add up at -6dB - and I'm not convinced the attenuation settings are correct. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Duet and Beresford Caiman DAC
Gazjam;543288 Wrote: Did I say that? Uhm..no, Im not being that technical or that specific. :) What Im saying is that there is a good jump in sound quality to my ears in my system (and lots of other User opinions seem to agree)using the Touch than there was with the SB3. My Dac/system is transparent enough to show up differences in digital transports...and its not that the SB3 is crap all of a sudden - its very much not...its just that to me the Touch is a lot better. Dont even think about it - buy a Touch. :) Have to admit i was making assumtions, but IMHO, the major source of audible differences originating from digtal domain is our old enemy jitter. Also youre indicating that there is a difference between SB2 and SB3. Isn't the SB3 just SB2 in new housing? Anyway: your thoughts an experiences are valued. Thanks PS! Have connected the Beresford Caiman to my old friend the SB2, and there is a quite noticable difference in sound: Midrange opens up, more air in the top and overall a more dynamic presentation. The slight tendency towards digital harshness from the SB2 is also gone. Other components: Electrocompaniet ECI-3, Monitor Audio Silver 7 -- stone stone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3440 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78036 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
My test of Touch dac repeated at 24/96 +---+ |Filename: CropperCapture[1].jpg| |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9854| +---+ -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DAC Resolution Test and Don't EVER use Digital Volume Control
mswlogo;544284 Wrote: Thanks for trying. Please stop saying nobody else hears it on their setup as well. There is at least half a dozen folks that jumped in along the way and said, Yup I hear too on my system, and always use Max. Nobody has successfully demonstrated a DBT that supports that... just saying it doesn't make it true :-) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77725 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DAC Resolution Test and Don't EVER use Digital Volume Control
mswlogo;544284 Wrote: Thanks for trying. Please stop saying nobody else hears it on their setup as well. There is at least half a dozen folks that jumped in along the way and said, Yup I hear too on my system, and always use Max. Nobody has successfully demonstrated a DBT that supports that... just saying it doesn't make it true :-) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77725 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DAC Resolution Test and Don't EVER use Digital Volume Control
darrenyeats;544295 Wrote: mswlogo, I was looking for that but I couldn't find it. Can you send a link please? Edit: found it in related thread. Too? Has someone claimed something else is f'ked up? Darren Actually it just may be. But willing to admit errors unlike some folks. I plan to run it with better unbalanced cables and making sure they are no where near AC cables (which I have all shielded) and I'll try to run it on balanced as well. I normally don't run analog on anything. Only place is within my DSP speakers. The Soundcard and Laptop were all on battery power. And other tests using that setup were much cleaner. I should have noticed the 60hz. But it was late. I doubt it's the transporter. So I suspect the analog cable picked it up. -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77725 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
darrenyeats;544311 Wrote: Ah this is what you referred to on the other thread! Thanks. Again, assuming this is accurate, the degradation is non-linear like with the SB. 2.1db down on the first 12db of attenuation, then a further 8.1db down on the next 12db of attenuation. Of course much lower loss of dynamic range per db of attenuation and, as predicted, yet more non-linear. But I'm surprised the results don't show a much lower loss of dynamic range overall. I don't understand the -6db column. Is the dynamic range really worse at -6db than at -12db? That looks incorrect - or maybe I misunderstand. Was a 16 bit signal used for the test? Darren I agree. It behaved oddly. That 60hz noise may be causing issues. I plan to run it on balanced. But I need to pickup a cable. -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
mswlogo;544365 Wrote: I agree. It behaved oddly. That 60hz noise may be causing issues. I plan to run it on balanced. But I need to pickup a cable. Cool. darrenyeats;544311 Wrote: Was a 16 bit signal used for the test? Darren I'm interested in a 16/44 signal, personally. Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. (Inguz bass EQ'd) SB3 - (pre bypassed) Krell KAV-300i - PMC AB-1 (caps bass EQ'd) Desktop - Genius Slab SW-flat2.1 700 Sennheiser HD 25-1 II darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
darrenyeats;544379 Wrote: Cool. I'm interested in a 16/44 signal, personally. Darren It was 16/44. It's in the Report. I will run 24/44 as well. -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
mswlogo;544381 Wrote: It was 16/44. It's in the Report. I will run 24/44 as well. Do you mean Sampling mode: 16-bit, 44 kHz? I assumed this was the ADC mode, not the digital signal that is input. Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. (Inguz bass EQ'd) SB3 - (pre bypassed) Krell KAV-300i - PMC AB-1 (caps bass EQ'd) Desktop - Genius Slab SW-flat2.1 700 Sennheiser HD 25-1 II darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Touch vs. Transporter digital output (again)
Hi, firstly, I've read most of the threads on this topic. Secondly, I will do a listening test myself at some point. But for now... Two questions. They are rather (over) simplified, strict, and probably flawed in many other ways. Nonetheless, on the other hand they perhaps could add something new to the discussion. Please answer both questions by indicating a number between 1 and 10. 10 is the top-reference defined by the TP. 1 is some guesstimated low/average-end level representing the big mass of consumer level electronics. Other comments are of course also appreciated. 1. In pure technical terms (i.e. design, quality of components, implementation, measurements, etc), how does the (output of the) coaxial digital output of the Touch compare to the Transporter. 2. Assuming use of good quality cable, connectors, and external DAC. How does the coaxial output of the Touch compare to the Transporter in terms of end sound quality. This is obviously much more subjective than 1, and rather than digging deep into each answer, I'd rather get many answers to gather some mass of opinions. Thanks in advance. Regards Bjørn -- bhaagensen bhaagensen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7418 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78441 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
darrenyeats;544386 Wrote: Do you mean Sampling mode: 16-bit, 44 kHz? I assumed this was the ADC mode, not the digital signal that is input. Darren Live in and Live out. It's both. All testing was Live in and out. There is only one data rate setting Per Action (Record/Play, Record, Play). I used Record/Play. I was also not sure if RightMark assumes it's always paired since it behaved that way when they are tied together (i.e. live in and live out). I think this is what they mean by loop back mode. -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Duet and Beresford Caiman DAC
stone;544321 Wrote: Have to admit i was making assumtions, but IMHO, the major source of audible differences originating from digtal domain is our old enemy jitter. Also youre indicating that there is a difference between SB2 and SB3. Isn't the SB3 just SB2 in new housing? Anyway: your thoughts an experiences are valued. Thanks PS! Have connected the Beresford Caiman to my old friend the SB2, and there is a quite noticable difference in sound: Midrange opens up, more air in the top and overall a more dynamic presentation. The slight tendency towards digital harshness from the SB2 is also gone. Other components: Electrocompaniet ECI-3, Monitor Audio Silver 7 Hi, I've never heard an SB2dont know anything about it to be honest. Asking the wrong Guy chief! Dont worry about all this stuff, sorry to be simplistic about this, but just GET A TOUCH. :) With the Caiman it'll blow your socks off. Just make sure you get a decent (doesnt have to be expensive) 1.5M length digital coax to connect them. As your the Jitter Man ;) you'll want to worry about signal reflections in the SPDIF transfer... Or better yet, just chill out and realise how good the Touch is. Wow. -- Gazjam Gazjam's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78036 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
Please try balanced configuration and let us know. Still not convinced about that 60Hz and harmonic group spikes existence ;-) -- gizek Transporter Adcom GFP-750 Monarchy Audio SE-100 monoblocks Proac Studio 100; Cardas Neutral Reference all over gizek's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34337 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Another Transporter that will not power up...
My experience says that usually refurb units are less prone to any faults. Anyway... I wonder if there is a way to verify if Transporter is refurb or not. I got one of those deals and so far, after 8 months, unit has been behaving perfectly. On the other hand it's modified so can't tell for sure what would happen if it was stock... -- gizek Transporter Adcom GFP-750 Monarchy Audio SE-100 monoblocks Proac Studio 100; Cardas Neutral Reference all over gizek's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34337 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78170 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Strange behavior testing with RightMark Audio Analyzer
Equipment TASCAM US144 MKII, MKI, and EMU 0404 (all similar devices) using ASIO Meridian G68 Transporter What works. If I Test My Meridian driving SPDIF from TASCAM and Recording Analog out with TASCAM it looks pretty clean. One small bump at 60hz. Normal Volume. More importantly Calibration Test passes. If I Test Transporter driving SPDIF from TASCAM and Recording Analog out with TASCAM is looks pretty clean. Max Volume. One small bump at 60Hz. Unbalanced. I did not do Volume test again with better cables and carefully routing unbalanced away from any power cords. Because I want to understand why a WAV won't work first. More importantly Calibration Test passes. What does not work: Then I do the exact same test on Transporter but instead of Driving with SPDIF. I play a .WAV file with test signal. Calibration Test says signal is distorted. I verified I can Play a WAV file on PC out on SPDIF and Analyze it from another PC recording it SPDIF. Got perfect results as expected. So I know the WAV procedure works. My balanced inputs on TASCAM don't seem to be correct level sensitivity to try balanced outputs on Transporter. I think it has something to do with clocks. When I drive the TASCAM (or EMU) the Clock from SPDIF output of TASCAM is used for the ADC of Analog coming back. I even tried using the internal clock of the TASCAM to drive clock on Transporter. I know this was clocking it. Because no data was actually going over it and if I pulled it everything stopped. Also if I changed RightMark to 88.2 the 44.1Khz the song Transport was playing played double speed. So I can record the analog great if driven by SPDIF directly. But I can't record it (and pass calibration tests) if it uses it's own internal clock. If I run the test anyway it's total junk. The exact same thing happens if I record the Meridian Analog while Transporter plays a file. I can record the file digitally out of the Transporter and it works perfect as expected. Since one side is analog you would not think clocks would matter. But I think they do. I'm curious how folks tested SqueezeBox and Touch with Right Mark. I tried 16/44, 24/44 and 24/88. All the same thing. Oh, if I play a DTS file on Transporter Meridian will decode it. Nothing is mucked with. To SqueezeServer and Transporter it looks just like a FLAC with a WAV in it. If Volume is changed from 100 it will not decode. But just in case I wiped SqueezeServer install and reinstalled (including all settings). -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78451 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
