Re: ***SPAM*** Re: Battlestar Galactica
On 11 Apr 2008, at 03:52, Curtis Burisch wrote: I have read almost all science fiction ever published, and my biggest gripe with the genre is that there are not enough authors publishing enough works to satisfy my appetite. There have been between two- and three-hundred new sf novels published in English every year since the seventies, and probably the sixties when the paperback boom began. SF as a recognisable genre has been published since the nineteenth century with Wells and Verne. SF magazines began in the 1920s and are still published today. That's around 10,000 SF novels published just since 1960 and another 5000 or so before, and 5000 or so issues of SF magazines. That's about 20,000 books worth of reading. I've read around 15% of that and I think I've read a great deal of science fiction :) There have been a few slow episodes, whose lack of compelling content has been attributed to excessively long story arcs (as a result of the producers overextending the story arc) however for the most part BSG have seldom disappointed me. The fairly powerful love/hate relationship between Kara Thrace and Captain Adama (the junior) enthralled me for some time. Personally I experienced a powerful attraction to Kara! I thought the worst episodes were the stand-alones in season 3 which were requested by the network in an attempt to attract new viewers unfamiliar with the complicated story. I've heard there is no filler in the fourth season though! -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ I believe OS/2 is destined to be the most important operating system, and possibly program, of all time. - Bill Gates, 1987 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: ***SPAM*** Re: Battlestar Galactica
There have been between two- and three-hundred new sf novels published in English every year since the seventies, and probably the sixties when the paperback boom began. SF as a recognisable genre has been published since the nineteenth century with Wells and Verne. SF magazines began in the 1920s and are still published today. That's around 10,000 SF novels published just since 1960 and another 5000 or so before, and 5000 or so issues of SF magazines. That's about 20,000 books worth of reading. I've read around 15% of that and I think I've read a great deal of science fiction :) Oops. Appears I overestimated my own coverage by a large margin. I've probably only read somewhere in the region of 5%, if your stats are accurate! But, this is the vast majority of SF I've ever come across or been able to get hold of. I've heard there is no filler in the fourth season though! Yay! Bring on the space battles! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
On 11/04/2008, at 12:09 PM, Curtis Burisch wrote: Interesting premise, reasonably executed. What makes it stand out are the long long (long) takes, 4 and 5 minute action sequences done with steadycam. Great stuff. I noticed that take, Takes, dude. More than once in the movie. Over and over, long takes. OK, no single one of them quite as special as the first chunk of Snake Eyes, but a collection of great sequences. Yes, you're talking about the sequence near the end in your post, but there were others. C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
On 4/11/08, Charlie Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I noticed that take, Takes, dude. More than once in the movie. Over and over, long takes. OK, no single one of them quite as special as the first chunk of Snake Eyes, but a collection of great sequences. The thing is the Snake Eyes take is done just because De Palma can. It is hollow spectacle. The long takes in Children Of Men really immerse you in the world. Yes, you're talking about the sequence near the end in your post, but there were others. Yeah, the long shot from inside of the car is brilliant. Martin ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
On 12/04/2008, at 2:24 AM, Martin Lewis wrote: On 4/11/08, Charlie Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I noticed that take, Takes, dude. More than once in the movie. Over and over, long takes. OK, no single one of them quite as special as the first chunk of Snake Eyes, but a collection of great sequences. The thing is the Snake Eyes take is done just because De Palma can. Yes. It is hollow spectacle. The long takes in Children Of Men really immerse you in the world. Sure. You'll agree with me that the long takes in Children of Men were very carefully thought out, and designed to suck you in to the scene, rather than the cinematic wanking of De Palma. (And yes, De Palma was just out to slap Altman about...). But the start of Snake Eyes, and the start of The Player were still very cool. Yes, you're talking about the sequence near the end in your post, but there were others. Yeah, the long shot from inside of the car is brilliant. That was fantastic. C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
On 4/8/08, Curtis Burisch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The first one only came out today in the UK! They are doing a bunch of films, aren't they? Is it one for each main character? Oh, don't you have internet in UK? I'm in SA, saw the movie about a month ago :) Well, I saw it yesterday. It is a bit rubbish. Didn't know they were doing one per character, but I suppose it makes sense. Judging from the DVD this is not the case. They are releasing four films two months apart and they do not focus on individual characters. In fact one of the problems with Bender's Big Score is that there is too much Fry and not enough Bender. Saw the Simpsons movie last night. Yawn. Yes, meh seems to have been the general response. It is the same with Bender's Big Score: too much plot, not enough jokes. Martin ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Battlestar Galactica
Interesting premise, reasonably executed. What makes it stand out are the long long (long) takes, 4 and 5 minute action sequences done with steadycam. Great stuff. I noticed that take, and rewound to watch it no less than 3 times. Great cameraman there, great teamwork in a LARGE cast, and great continuity. I've worked in many stage plays and been in several cinema productions; my experiences have sensitized me to the brutally extreme sensitivity of long takes such as the one you mention to even the slightest error, so my admiration for the scene you mention is nothing but extreme. My personal theory is they tried to push this scene all the way to the exit boat, but that inevitable snafus prevented them from being able to accomplish this. I give them enormous credit for what they did manage to accomplish, though! C ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: ***SPAM*** Re: Battlestar Galactica
Anyway, I hate it when someone criticizes my favorite shows, so I guess I should have known better. I have to disagree with William's response in the strongest possible terms -- not your response, Olin (what an unusual and wonderful name!) I have read almost all science fiction ever published, and my biggest gripe with the genre is that there are not enough authors publishing enough works to satisfy my appetite. If it comes to the crunch, the reason I adore BSG as much as I do is that the cinematics astound me. The shaky 'home movie' effects during the space battles; the authentically weathered hulls of the ostensibly ancient human ships; even the easy-to-accomplish (yet incredibly difficult to ensure a scitentifically-convincing appearance) thermonuclear explosions, all combine to overwhelm me with pure appreciation of the art of making science fiction movies as embodied in what the art crew of this series has managed to accomplish. Yet this is not the reason I've given this series a five-star rating. Like 'Children of Men' I was literally moved to tears on many occasions whilst watching it. Several episodes had a vehemently emotional impact on me, to the point of sporadic lacrimation. There have been a few slow episodes, whose lack of compelling content has been attributed to excessively long story arcs (as a result of the producers overextending the story arc) however for the most part BSG have seldom disappointed me. The fairly powerful love/hate relationship between Kara Thrace and Captain Adama (the junior) enthralled me for some time. Personally I experienced a powerful attraction to Kara! It's been a slightly mixed bag so far; I personally am not a critic, but I loved it to bits would love to see several more series, not to mention many, many movies :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
On 09/04/2008, at 2:14 PM, Julia Thompson wrote: On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Olin Elliott wrote: Anyway, I hate it when someone criticizes my favorite shows, so I guess I should have known better. You provoked some good discussion. :) (Babylon 5 is still my favorite. De gustibus non est disputandem, before anyone jumps on me about that, m'kay?) Yes. I finally watched S5 recently. Just wow. Sure it's flawed, sure JMS is a bit hokey, but it has two of the best characters in TV SF ever (Londo and G'Kar) and it's just so well tied together. C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
Already have Razor. Thanks. George A - Original Message - From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:48 AM Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica On 6 Apr 2008, at 08:00, G. D. Akin wrote: William T Goodall wrote: Subject: Battlestar Galactica That was not disappointing. Please, please, please, announce **SPOILERS** if you talk about season 4. I live in Korea. I just finished the season 3 DVD set last night (and can't wait for the final set). Then you need to watch the 'Razor' DVD too first. Feature length Maru. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If so, then Microsoft would have great products. - Steve Jobs ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Battlestar Galactica
The first one only came out today in the UK! They are doing a bunch of films, aren't they? Is it one for each main character? Oh, don't you have internet in UK? I'm in SA, saw the movie about a month ago :) Didn't know they were doing one per character, but I suppose it makes sense. Saw the Simpsons movie last night. Yawn. Saw Children of Men a few days ago. If you haven't seen this movie, you haven't lived. On IMDB, one critic wrote [this movie] restored my faith in cinema. PS BSG is balls. I'm not talking to you any more. Sniff. Curtis Insert something witty here Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
On 09/04/2008, at 2:45 AM, Curtis Burisch wrote: Saw Children of Men a few days ago. If you haven't seen this movie, you haven't lived. On IMDB, one critic wrote [this movie] restored my faith in cinema. Interesting premise, reasonably executed. What makes it stand out are the long long (long) takes, 4 and 5 minute action sequences done with steadycam. Great stuff. C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
I have to admit that I don't get the Battlestar Galactica craze. I have tried diligently to watch it and though I recognize the quality of the storylines -- I think it is written just about as well as any drama currently on television -- and characterizations, it doesn't grab me. I think there are two reason for that, primarily. One, I'm really just tired of the cold, calculating machines seeking to wipe out flawed-but-noble humanity theme. It seems to be everywhere in mass market sci-fi, from BSG to the Sarah Connor Chronicles. They even turned Isaac Asimov's wonderfully smart robot stories into an excuse for Will smith to shoot up evil robots. I think it's a failure of imagination, taking the most common track about the future of man's relationship to technology. Second, I just don't see that BSG, while it might be good drama, is good science fiction. Sure, it has a science fiction background, other planets, set on a space ship, etc. but that that doesn't make it sc ience fiction. If I re-write the plot of a western to give the cowboys ray guns instead of six-shooters, its still a western. Star Wars is still a fantasy no matter how many jumps to hyperspace the Millennium Falcon makes. Most of BSG's plotlines could be set in totally different locales -- it wouldn't matter for instance if the Cylons were any evil empire anywhere in history, you could still tell basically the same stories about the fleeing refugees. What BSG lacks, and what defines science fiction for me, are ideas -- new and challenging ideas about science, society, humanity, aliens -- etc. etc. etc. The society on the Galactica looks pretty much like 20th century society on Earth. BSG may be a very well written and produced tv drama, but it just doesn't seem like good science fiction to me. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
On 9 Apr 2008, at 01:22, Olin Elliott wrote: I have to admit that I don't get the Battlestar Galactica craze. I have tried diligently to watch it and though I recognize the quality of the storylines -- I think it is written just about as well as any drama currently on television -- and characterizations, it doesn't grab me. I think there are two reason for that, primarily. One, I'm really just tired of the cold, calculating machines seeking to wipe out flawed-but-noble humanity theme. BSG is more ambiguous than that. In this version the Cylons were created as slaves who then rebelled. They also have religion which is not machinelike at all. It's more like Philip K Dick, or even the movie version Blade Runner. It seems to be everywhere in mass market sci-fi, from BSG to the Sarah Connor Chronicles. They even turned Isaac Asimov's wonderfully smart robot stories into an excuse for Will smith to shoot up evil robots. I think it's a failure of imagination, taking the most common track about the future of man's relationship to technology. Second, I just don't see that BSG, while it might be good drama, is good science fiction. Sure, it has a science fiction background, other planets, set on a space ship, etc. but that that doesn't make it sc ience fiction. It makes it some kind of science fiction. Not hard sf perhaps but that has always been a very small niche in the sf field. If I re-write the plot of a western to give the cowboys ray guns instead of six-shooters, its still a western. It's a space opera actually :) Star Wars is still a fantasy no matter how many jumps to hyperspace the Millennium Falcon makes. Most of BSG's plotlines could be set in totally different locales -- it wouldn't matter for instance if the Cylons were any evil empire anywhere in history, you could still tell basically the same stories about the fleeing refugees. The fleeing refugees aren't really the point of the story. That's just to add tension and drive things along. The story is about the nature of reality and identity and Dickian themes like that. Those are stories that can't be told without the artificial Cylon race to contrast with the humans. What BSG lacks, and what defines science fiction for me, are ideas -- new and challenging ideas about science, society, humanity, aliens -- etc. etc. etc. I've been reading sf for forty years and there are very few new and challenging ideas in sf. Most ideas have been recycled many many times in slight variations and permutations. The society on the Galactica looks pretty much like 20th century society on Earth. Most societies in SF do, apart from whatever 'what if' is driving the story. Imagining a complete, consistent, plausible world is a bit much to ask for a story! Silly costumes and humanoid aliens with a few latex bumps aren't science fiction either. Look at 2001 - lots of experts were consulted at vast expense to get the 'future look' and it actually looks more dated and wrong than if they hadn't bothered. BSG may be a very well written and produced tv drama, but it just doesn't seem like good science fiction to me. It's science fiction and it's good even if it's not good science fiction Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If so, then Microsoft would have great products. - Steve Jobs ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
I'm mostly willing to agree with everything you said, except the part about there being few challenging ideas in science fiction. I thnk the best writers in the field are consistently engaged with interesting and challenging ideas. Otherwise I don't think I'd stay interested. I've almost stopped reading fantasy despite the fact that there are enormously talented writers working in the genre for pretty much that reason -- it constantly re-works the same themes in the same way. It is backwards looking and not forward looking. (I'm aware that there are exceptions to this.) I know its not very productive arguing over either definitions of genre or matters of taste -- I did after all admit that BSG was very well written and usually well acted. I don't think it has nearly the resonance of a Phillip K. Dick novel, or of Blade Runner. I probably did oversimplify the machine-human motif in BSG -- casual viewers usually see much less than true fans. The Dickian themes of the n ature of reality and identity certainly could be explored without the Cylons or any science fiction elements at all, for that matter. Shakespeare was doing it centuries ago, noir writers like Cornell Woolrich -- and directors like Hitchcock -- were doing it in the forties and fifties and even a novel like The Bourne Identity (not the grossly simplified movie version) grapple with those ideas. Albeit in very different ways. I agree that 2001 appears dated, but I would maintain that the ideas in 2001 and its sequels, and other Clarke novels, continue to be challenging and engaging. Anyway, I hate it when someone criticizes my favorite shows, so I guess I should have known better. - Original Message - From: William T Goodallmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussionmailto:brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:28 PM Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica On 9 Apr 2008, at 01:22, Olin Elliott wrote: I have to admit that I don't get the Battlestar Galactica craze. I have tried diligently to watch it and though I recognize the quality of the storylines -- I think it is written just about as well as any drama currently on television -- and characterizations, it doesn't grab me. I think there are two reason for that, primarily. One, I'm really just tired of the cold, calculating machines seeking to wipe out flawed-but-noble humanity theme. BSG is more ambiguous than that. In this version the Cylons were created as slaves who then rebelled. They also have religion which is not machinelike at all. It's more like Philip K Dick, or even the movie version Blade Runner. It seems to be everywhere in mass market sci-fi, from BSG to the Sarah Connor Chronicles. They even turned Isaac Asimov's wonderfully smart robot stories into an excuse for Will smith to shoot up evil robots. I think it's a failure of imagination, taking the most common track about the future of man's relationship to technology. Second, I just don't see that BSG, while it might be good drama, is good science fiction. Sure, it has a science fiction background, other planets, set on a space ship, etc. but that that doesn't make it sc ience fiction. It makes it some kind of science fiction. Not hard sf perhaps but that has always been a very small niche in the sf field. If I re-write the plot of a western to give the cowboys ray guns instead of six-shooters, its still a western. It's a space opera actually :) Star Wars is still a fantasy no matter how many jumps to hyperspace the Millennium Falcon makes. Most of BSG's plotlines could be set in totally different locales -- it wouldn't matter for instance if the Cylons were any evil empire anywhere in history, you could still tell basically the same stories about the fleeing refugees. The fleeing refugees aren't really the point of the story. That's just to add tension and drive things along. The story is about the nature of reality and identity and Dickian themes like that. Those are stories that can't be told without the artificial Cylon race to contrast with the humans. What BSG lacks, and what defines science fiction for me, are ideas -- new and challenging ideas about science, society, humanity, aliens -- etc. etc. etc. I've been reading sf for forty years and there are very few new and challenging ideas in sf. Most ideas have been recycled many many times in slight variations and permutations. The society on the Galactica looks pretty much like 20th century society on Earth. Most societies in SF do, apart from whatever 'what if' is driving the story. Imagining a complete, consistent, plausible world is a bit much to ask for a story! Silly costumes and humanoid aliens with a few latex bumps aren't science fiction either
Re: Battlestar Galactica
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Olin Elliott wrote: Anyway, I hate it when someone criticizes my favorite shows, so I guess I should have known better. You provoked some good discussion. :) (Babylon 5 is still my favorite. De gustibus non est disputandem, before anyone jumps on me about that, m'kay?) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
Agreed! My wife and are definitely looking forward to the rest of the season. - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Battlestar Galactica
That was not disappointing. Best televised sci-fi series EVER. Ok, so there were a couple of slow points in the plotline. But I can't wait for the rest of the series. And the movie. Disappointed I WILL be when it all ends :( On another note, I also loved Futurama. There's a second Futurama movie coming out soon, FYI. c ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
On 4/7/08, Curtis Burisch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On another note, I also loved Futurama. There's a second Futurama movie coming out soon, FYI. The first one only came out today in the UK! They are doing a bunch of films, aren't they? Is it one for each main character? Martin PS BSG is balls. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
On 7 Apr 2008, at 16:58, Martin Lewis wrote: PS BSG is balls. As in the the dog's or of steel or big hairy or minty ? None of the above Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance - Steve Ballmer ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
On 6 Apr 2008, at 08:00, G. D. Akin wrote: William T Goodall wrote: Subject: Battlestar Galactica That was not disappointing. Please, please, please, announce **SPOILERS** if you talk about season 4. I live in Korea. I just finished the season 3 DVD set last night (and can't wait for the final set). Then you need to watch the 'Razor' DVD too first. Feature length Maru. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If so, then Microsoft would have great products. - Steve Jobs ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
On 7 Apr 2008, at 16:58, Martin Lewis wrote: On 4/7/08, Curtis Burisch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On another note, I also loved Futurama. There's a second Futurama movie coming out soon, FYI. The first one only came out today in the UK! They are doing a bunch of films, aren't they? Is it one for each main character? Although I admire Futurama and find it clever and entirely watchable if I catch an episode I've never found it gripping enough to actually follow. There are only so many hours in a day after all, and so many ways of squandering them :) I remember watching the first episode of _The Shield_ and thinking 'this is a pretty good show' and not watching any of it after that because _Buffy_ and _Angel_ and _Alias_ and some other shows I found more engrossing were still airing new episodes then. Thanks to the writers' strike and Amazon's low low DVD set prices I am now on season three of _The Shield_ :) Stopped watching House maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Theists cannot be trusted as they believe that right and wrong are the arbitrary proclamations of invisible demons. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
William T Goodall wrote: Subject: Battlestar Galactica That was not disappointing. Please, please, please, announce **SPOILERS** if you talk about season 4. I live in Korea. I just finished the season 3 DVD set last night (and can't wait for the final set). We don't get it BSG here unless you're on active duty and live on a military post (I'm retired). George A P.S. Season 3 wasn't disappointing either. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
On Apr 6, 2008, at 12:00 AM, G. D. Akin wrote: P.S. Season 3 wasn't disappointing either. Srsly? There were things I liked, sure -- there were effects that were visually gorgeous, frex the translight jump of the BSG as it fell into atmo, I just about freaked as it vanished, leaving only a flaming imprint of its hull's own ablation in the sky, a fiery ghost and a *beautiful* image I think we'll be seeing again in other series -- but I felt the story began to drag heavily about halfway through (all shipboard, all the time: translation, we shot our eye-candy wad early). Definitely BSG is not about FX. However, it is an SF series, and FX matter. Playing cheap with them, keeping the budget lean visually, forced too much emphasis on the storytelling team -- and I don't think they were fully up to snuff there. That is, when the series had to rely on plot alone without interspace action sequences, I began to see some rather thin places in the plot. 26 eps in a season is too much for a series like BSG. It was much more tantalizing and intense, I thought, when they had more room for a good budget spread for FX throughout the story season, but had to tell a much tighter story in fewer shows. More = less = more. -- Warren Ockrassa Blog | http://indigestible.nightwares.com/ Books | http://books.nightwares.com/ Web | http://www.nightwares.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
Now that The Wire has finished its run, BSG is the best show on television. john On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 11:13 PM, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That was not disappointing. Final 19 Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
Damon Agretto wrote: I love the new BSG. I really do. It has complex character development and a storyline that is mercifully bereft of the reset button at episode's end. But damn, would it be so hard to not have dumpsters in the background when shooting dialogue in some alien world's back alley? There's a lot of bits in the show like that that break suspension of disbelief. If you know your firearms, it happens every ep... Case in point: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot5.htm Worth reading and viewing if you read or watch fiction. xponent Still Locked Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
At 09:41 AM Sunday 11/27/2005, Robert Seeberger wrote: Warren Ockrassa wrote: I love the new BSG. I really do. It has complex character development and a storyline that is mercifully bereft of the reset button at episode's end. But damn, would it be so hard to not have dumpsters in the background when shooting dialogue in some alien world's back alley? I have to disagree here. These are human worlds even if these people are not terrestrials, so why not dumpsters, shopping carts, wheels made of rubber, or even Doh!, doughnuts? Watching the show, I see no aliens, I see us. So if the solutions they use are often identical to solutions we use, what of it? Dumpsters are a design driven by pursuit of efficiency for the purpose of garbage collection. Why should we be surprised to see that garbage collection is done the same wherever humans live? I noticed the dumpsters on Caprica. I also saw cars, warehouses, streets, military vehicles and what-have-you, and have no doubts you might also see port-a-potties. In the scenes in question, buildings in the background are also typical 20th century warehouse/factory construction. Is this also problematic for you? It's not for me. Driving around my town, I can easily find buldings built in every decade of the last century, and know of one building still standing that was built in the mid 19th century. We have several here built in the early 19th century (though they are preservations to be quite honest). OK, having said all that and posed minor questions, let me make a more salient point here. Being involved in construction and having some awareness of the utility aspects of man made objects, I note that the older a building is the more likely it is to have been built with permanancy in mind. Newer buildings are constructed with a defined lifespan. In those terms, the WTC were temporary constructions as are all tall buildings built since.(And most before) This trend applies across the construction industry to all sorts of installations. From this, it should be understood that older buildings tend to stick around longer than newer buildings. So..in the Galactica universe, where the 12 worlds are all colonies, this effect would be exagerated. Buildings built soon after the establishment of a colony might still be in use over a much longer term, even though they are built to a more temporary standard. This to me, makes the dialogue scenes in front of 50s era warehouses more realistic than the scenes where someones idea of futuristic settings is edited into the background. Blade Runner is a very good example of how the past intrudes into the future to create a sense of realism that stays with you. So why not dumpsters? After a lengthy period of isolation, though, why should all of their artifacts look exactly like those found in contemporary North America? Even on Earth, you can tell a difference between the scenery, the clothing, etc., when you travel to Europe, Asia, Africa, . . ., even after centuries of contact and trade. Why should the people on a planet where the people have not had contact with Earth in so long that no one from either world knows of the other world except as an ancient legend just happen to wear suits and ties that look exactly like what some people on Earth wear, when styles in other parts of Earth and little more than a century ago in the parts of Earth where they are worn today look so different? --Ronn! :) Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country and two words have been added to the pledge of Allegiance... UNDER GOD. Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer and that would be eliminated from schools too? -- Red Skelton ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
At 09:44 AM Sunday 11/27/2005, Robert Seeberger wrote: Damon Agretto wrote: I love the new BSG. I really do. It has complex character development and a storyline that is mercifully bereft of the reset button at episode's end. But damn, would it be so hard to not have dumpsters in the background when shooting dialogue in some alien world's back alley? There's a lot of bits in the show like that that break suspension of disbelief. If you know your firearms, it happens every ep... I was going to mention something about firearms, but figured not everyone might know enough about them for it to be that meaningful . . . --Ronn! :) Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country and two words have been added to the pledge of Allegiance... UNDER GOD. Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer and that would be eliminated from schools too? -- Red Skelton ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: After a lengthy period of isolation, though, why should all of their artifacts look exactly like those found in contemporary North America? Even on Earth, you can tell a difference between the scenery, the clothing, etc., when you travel to Europe, Asia, Africa, . . ., even after centuries of contact and trade. I don't think that is a fair comparison really. On Earth, cultures developed in relative isolation for very long periods of time but are now becoming more and more monocultural as time passes. What is seen on BSG is a vast monoculture (for the greatest part the 12 colonies are almost identical) defined and evolving from its colonial origins. To some extent this development should parallel the development of the only example of cities carved out of virgin wilderness we have more than any examples we have of cities built on top of ancient cities as seen in our eastern hemisphere. How long does it take to fully develop a planetary colony? (I see evidence that the colonial planets are not fully developed and populated, and the total population of the entire polity is small multiples of earths population. Remember that 40 years in the past, the cylons had almost wiped out colonial civilisation.) This is a central question. How many different ways are there to transport garbage on a planet that is not fully populated? (All the evidence I've seen from the series points to the colonies being having much smaller populations than Earth [correct me if I'm wrong], and my speculation is that these are originally colonies *from* Earth since all the evidence shows that humans evolved here *first* and then emigrated, hence the lower populations.) This is a central question. Why should the people on a planet where the people have not had contact with Earth in so long that no one from either world knows of the other world except as an ancient legend just happen to wear suits and ties that look exactly like what some people on Earth wear, when styles in other parts of Earth and little more than a century ago in the parts of Earth where they are worn today look so different? See above. Of course there is another argument to be made. When you watch a biography of say...George Washingtons life, do you expect the actor to look *exactly* like George Washington? To sound exactly like George Washington? To *be* an exact copy of George Washington? Of course not! The actor is supposed to convey the *idea* of George Washington. In that sense, a terrestrial dumpster is supposed to convey the *idea* of a *pretend-makebelieve-doesn'texistintherealworld* dumpster. And yet another argument. If someone finds a dumpster jarring in a scene on pretend-Caprica, yet is not jarred by vehicles, asphalt, and average everyday warehouses also seen in the background, then ones suspension-of-disbelief is awfully selective. I'm pretty sure I know which scene Warren is speaking of and it reeked of ordinaryness of setting in turbulent times which I wouldn't doubt was intentional. Then too, my line of work brings me into contact with dumpsters on a regular and daily basis. Dumpsters are cheap, functional, and effective, and come in a variety of styles. I think you have to argue/show that there is a vastly different way to design dumpsters of equal or better utility that look nothing like our dumpsters in order to advance an argument that the BSG dumpsters are some sort of spatial twonky. Query: Are the events of BSG contemporary with *us* *now*? xponent Space Garbage Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
At 01:43 PM Sunday 11/27/2005, Robert Seeberger wrote: Ronn!Blankenship wrote: After a lengthy period of isolation, though, why should all of their artifacts look exactly like those found in contemporary North America? Even on Earth, you can tell a difference between the scenery, the clothing, etc., when you travel to Europe, Asia, Africa, . . ., even after centuries of contact and trade. I don't think that is a fair comparison really. On Earth, cultures developed in relative isolation for very long periods of time but are now becoming more and more monocultural as time passes. What is seen on BSG is a vast monoculture (for the greatest part the 12 colonies are almost identical) defined and evolving from its colonial origins. Agreed. My point (which may not have been clear) is that the 12 colonies have been *** isolated from Earth*** for umpty-ump years . . . so howcum the fashions worn by the colonists are identical to what is being worn in a specific part of Earth (North America) right now? To some extent this development should parallel the development of the only example of cities carved out of virgin wilderness we have more than any examples we have of cities built on top of ancient cities as seen in our eastern hemisphere. How long does it take to fully develop a planetary colony? (I see evidence that the colonial planets are not fully developed and populated, and the total population of the entire polity is small multiples of earths population. Remember that 40 years in the past, the cylons had almost wiped out colonial civilisation.) This is a central question. How many different ways are there to transport garbage on a planet that is not fully populated? Some would say that television is a good method . . . :P (All the evidence I've seen from the series points to the colonies being having much smaller populations than Earth [correct me if I'm wrong], and my speculation is that these are originally colonies *from* Earth since all the evidence shows that humans evolved here *first* and then emigrated, hence the lower populations.) This is a central question. Why should the people on a planet where the people have not had contact with Earth in so long that no one from either world knows of the other world except as an ancient legend just happen to wear suits and ties that look exactly like what some people on Earth wear, when styles in other parts of Earth and little more than a century ago in the parts of Earth where they are worn today look so different? See above. Of course there is another argument to be made. When you watch a biography of say...George Washingtons life, do you expect the actor to look *exactly* like George Washington? To sound exactly like George Washington? To *be* an exact copy of George Washington? Of course not! The actor is supposed to convey the *idea* of George Washington. In that sense, a terrestrial dumpster is supposed to convey the *idea* of a *pretend-makebelieve-doesn'texistintherealworld* dumpster. And yet another argument. If someone finds a dumpster jarring in a scene on pretend-Caprica, yet is not jarred by vehicles, asphalt, and average everyday warehouses also seen in the background, then ones suspension-of-disbelief is awfully selective. I'm pretty sure I know which scene Warren is speaking of and it reeked of ordinaryness of setting in turbulent times which I wouldn't doubt was intentional. Then too, my line of work brings me into contact with dumpsters on a regular and daily basis. Dumpsters are cheap, functional, and effective, and come in a variety of styles. I think you have to argue/show that there is a vastly different way to design dumpsters of equal or better utility that look nothing like our dumpsters Are they Pepto-Bismol pink, like those belonging to one company here are? in order to advance an argument that the BSG dumpsters are some sort of spatial twonky. Query: Are the events of BSG contemporary with *us* *now*? xponent Space Garbage Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l --Ronn! :) Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country and two words have been added to the pledge of Allegiance... UNDER GOD. Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer and that would be eliminated from schools too? -- Red Skelton ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
Rob said: If someone finds a dumpster jarring in a scene on pretend-Caprica, yet is not jarred by vehicles, asphalt, and average everyday warehouses also seen in the background, then ones suspension-of-disbelief is awfully selective. While we're at it, can't we have them all speaking Caprican (or whatever) with English subtitles? Rich GCU One Line Reply ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 01:43 PM Sunday 11/27/2005, Robert Seeberger wrote: Ronn!Blankenship wrote: After a lengthy period of isolation, though, why should all of their artifacts look exactly like those found in contemporary North America? Even on Earth, you can tell a difference between the scenery, the clothing, etc., when you travel to Europe, Asia, Africa, . . ., even after centuries of contact and trade. I don't think that is a fair comparison really. On Earth, cultures developed in relative isolation for very long periods of time but are now becoming more and more monocultural as time passes. What is seen on BSG is a vast monoculture (for the greatest part the 12 colonies are almost identical) defined and evolving from its colonial origins. Agreed. My point (which may not have been clear) is that the 12 colonies have been *** isolated from Earth*** for umpty-ump years . . . so howcum the fashions worn by the colonists are identical to what is being worn in a specific part of Earth (North America) right now? I don't find the suits identical myself. They would look quite strange on the street here. It's the ties that get me. Why are there ties? The suit itself looks like a truncated version of the formal robes from the original series. The cut looks odd to say the least, and the colors are as out of place as the ties. Query: What are the cultural antecedents for ties and for suits? It would make an odder case for cultural parallelism than the case I make for dumpsters.G To some extent this development should parallel the development of the only example of cities carved out of virgin wilderness we have more than any examples we have of cities built on top of ancient cities as seen in our eastern hemisphere. How long does it take to fully develop a planetary colony? (I see evidence that the colonial planets are not fully developed and populated, and the total population of the entire polity is small multiples of earths population. Remember that 40 years in the past, the cylons had almost wiped out colonial civilisation.) This is a central question. How many different ways are there to transport garbage on a planet that is not fully populated? Some would say that television is a good method . . . :P And remakes are recycling? G (All the evidence I've seen from the series points to the colonies being having much smaller populations than Earth [correct me if I'm wrong], and my speculation is that these are originally colonies *from* Earth since all the evidence shows that humans evolved here *first* and then emigrated, hence the lower populations.) This is a central question. Why should the people on a planet where the people have not had contact with Earth in so long that no one from either world knows of the other world except as an ancient legend just happen to wear suits and ties that look exactly like what some people on Earth wear, when styles in other parts of Earth and little more than a century ago in the parts of Earth where they are worn today look so different? See above. Of course there is another argument to be made. When you watch a biography of say...George Washingtons life, do you expect the actor to look *exactly* like George Washington? To sound exactly like George Washington? To *be* an exact copy of George Washington? Of course not! The actor is supposed to convey the *idea* of George Washington. In that sense, a terrestrial dumpster is supposed to convey the *idea* of a *pretend-makebelieve-doesn'texistintherealworld* dumpster. And yet another argument. If someone finds a dumpster jarring in a scene on pretend-Caprica, yet is not jarred by vehicles, asphalt, and average everyday warehouses also seen in the background, then ones suspension-of-disbelief is awfully selective. I'm pretty sure I know which scene Warren is speaking of and it reeked of ordinaryness of setting in turbulent times which I wouldn't doubt was intentional. Then too, my line of work brings me into contact with dumpsters on a regular and daily basis. Dumpsters are cheap, functional, and effective, and come in a variety of styles. I think you have to argue/show that there is a vastly different way to design dumpsters of equal or better utility that look nothing like our dumpsters Are they Pepto-Bismol pink, like those belonging to one company here are? The ones I see come in a variety of colors depending on the vendor and how long they have been onsite and if they have ever been set afire. xponent Contemporaneous? Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
Richard Baker wrote: Rob said: If someone finds a dumpster jarring in a scene on pretend-Caprica, yet is not jarred by vehicles, asphalt, and average everyday warehouses also seen in the background, then ones suspension-of-disbelief is awfully selective. While we're at it, can't we have them all speaking Caprican (or whatever) with English subtitles? Further, they have been seperated from us for long enough for there to be distinct ethniciation. Where are their ethnics that are distinct from Earths ethnics? Perhaps there has been time for race derivation. Why are there none of those? (Is 50,000 years long enough to produce distinct differences in populations that are visibly noticeable? I think the evidence from animal husbandry and pet husbandryG would say yes, but that is from *directed* breeding. Would such distinctions arise from more random patterns of breeding?) xponent Time For Changes Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
Robert Seeberger wrote: I don't find the suits identical myself. They would look quite strange on the street here. It's the ties that get me. Why are there ties? The suit itself looks like a truncated version of the formal robes from the original series. The cut looks odd to say the least, and the colors are as out of place as the ties. Query: What are the cultural antecedents for ties and for suits? Can't help on the suits right now. Check out http://www.twilightbridge.com/hobbies/festivals/father/necktie.htm and http://www.shop-usa.info/TIE_HISTORY/tie_history.html about the ties, see if those help at all. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Battlestar Galactica renewed
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Warren Ockrassa Sent: November 27, 2005 2:24 AM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed On Nov 22, 2005, at 4:09 PM, Kevin Street wrote: William T Goodall quoted: SCI FI Channel announced that it has renewed its original series Battlestar Galactica for a third season. Production on the 20-episode order is slated to begin in Vancouver, Canada, in February 2006 for premiere later in the year, the network said. This is great news, but it's kind of ironic too. The series is shot here in Canada, but we won't get to see the second season until January... I thought it was funny watching SI when Boomer was getting her ass kicked on the roof of some warehouse in Calgary or Toronto, wondering how the producers had managed to get just the right angle to make the city look like Caprica. The other good one was an OTS shot that showed a radio tower with a huge W on top of it. W what? I love the new BSG. I really do. It has complex character development and a storyline that is mercifully bereft of the reset button at episode's end. But damn, would it be so hard to not have dumpsters in the background when shooting dialogue in some alien world's back alley? -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://books.nightwares.com/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf http://books.nightwares.com/ockrassa/Storms_on_a_Flat_Placid_Sea.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l filmed in Vancouver BC. The W on that radio tower is a historical structure in Vancouver... not far from UBC campus if IIRC... and the building its on is part of a student housing and shop complex. nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
On Nov 22, 2005, at 4:09 PM, Kevin Street wrote: William T Goodall quoted: SCI FI Channel announced that it has renewed its original series Battlestar Galactica for a third season. Production on the 20-episode order is slated to begin in Vancouver, Canada, in February 2006 for premiere later in the year, the network said. This is great news, but it's kind of ironic too. The series is shot here in Canada, but we won't get to see the second season until January... I thought it was funny watching SI when Boomer was getting her ass kicked on the roof of some warehouse in Calgary or Toronto, wondering how the producers had managed to get just the right angle to make the city look like Caprica. The other good one was an OTS shot that showed a radio tower with a huge W on top of it. W what? I love the new BSG. I really do. It has complex character development and a storyline that is mercifully bereft of the reset button at episode's end. But damn, would it be so hard to not have dumpsters in the background when shooting dialogue in some alien world's back alley? -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://books.nightwares.com/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf http://books.nightwares.com/ockrassa/Storms_on_a_Flat_Placid_Sea.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
I love the new BSG. I really do. It has complex character development and a storyline that is mercifully bereft of the reset button at episode's end. But damn, would it be so hard to not have dumpsters in the background when shooting dialogue in some alien world's back alley? There's a lot of bits in the show like that that break suspension of disbelief. If you know your firearms, it happens every ep... Damon. Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: Bandai's Pz.H auf GWII (105mm) Wespe -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/183 - Release Date: 11/25/2005 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Battlestar Galactica renewed
William T Goodall quoted: SCI FI Channel announced that it has renewed its original series Battlestar Galactica for a third season. Production on the 20-episode order is slated to begin in Vancouver, Canada, in February 2006 for premiere later in the year, the network said. This is great news, but it's kind of ironic too. The series is shot here in Canada, but we won't get to see the second season until January... Kevin Street -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.5/178 - Release Date: 11/22/2005 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
(Update) 20 new episodes, shooting starts in March with new eps airing in the US in the summer. No news of when SKY will show them in the UK - probably with a later start given their preference for avoiding repeats and hiatuses. SPOILER ALERT! The linked story has some spoilerish casting information. http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire2005/index.php?id=30466 -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ 'The true sausage buff will sooner or later want his own meat grinder.' -- Jack Schmidling ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Battlestar Galactica renewed
Behalf Of Gary Denton The first series didn't crib only or mostly from the Mormons. It often has general religious names and beliefs from thousands of years ago. It was a reinforcement of the mythology of the series that they are descendent's of a lost advanced society on earth. Or alternately that they would settle Earth thousand of years ago and their beliefs would enter into our history. After the first couple episodes I like most people gave up on the original BS Gal. Gave up on it after a few episodes? You, obviously, were not 12 at the time and crazed about anything Star Warsy in nature! O, I think I may have dated myself there... - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
On Feb 13, 2005, at 3:40 PM, Damon Agretto wrote: I think in the old series the Cylons were the robotic soldiers of a dead race. IIRC the original Cylons were lizards or something... My recall of it's vague too, but I believe the centurions had only one brain lobe and the Imperious Leader had three; there was a two-lobed version that never appeared in the series as well. (This is from one of the books, actually.) There was something about the Cylons that made me think of Daleks, and it might have had something to do with degenerate mutations. Also, didn't they spend an inordinate amount of time watching Fox News Channel? -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
Warren said: My recall of it's vague too, but I believe the centurions had only one brain lobe and the Imperious Leader had three; there was a two-lobed version that never appeared in the series as well. Was the Imperious Leader the more human-looking one with the conical(?) head? Or was that an intermediate caste? Also, didn't they spend an inordinate amount of time watching Fox News Channel? No, that last part was Babylon 5 not Battlestar Galactica. Rich ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
At 11:04 AM Monday 2/14/2005, Warren Ockrassa wrote: On Feb 13, 2005, at 3:40 PM, Damon Agretto wrote: I think in the old series the Cylons were the robotic soldiers of a dead race. IIRC the original Cylons were lizards or something... My recall of it's vague too, but I believe the centurions had only one brain lobe and the Imperious Leader had three; there was a two-lobed version that never appeared in the series as well. I suppose that explains why they have three Cylons in their fighters, and that Cylon pilot in one episode reported that We were taking a vote when the ground came up and hit us. --Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
On Feb 14, 2005, at 12:50 PM, Richard Baker wrote: Warren said: My recall of it's vague too, but I believe the centurions had only one brain lobe and the Imperious Leader had three; there was a two-lobed version that never appeared in the series as well. Was the Imperious Leader the more human-looking one with the conical(?) head? Or was that an intermediate caste? I think the IL was the humanoid one, yeah, with the weird red coral (?) growing from his skull. Also, didn't they spend an inordinate amount of time watching Fox News Channel? No, that last part was Babylon 5 not Battlestar Galactica. Oh, right, I'm thinking of the Shadows. -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
On Feb 14, 2005, at 7:25 PM, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 11:04 AM Monday 2/14/2005, Warren Ockrassa wrote: My recall of it's vague too, but I believe the centurions had only one brain lobe and the Imperious Leader had three; there was a two-lobed version that never appeared in the series as well. I suppose that explains why they have three Cylons in their fighters, and that Cylon pilot in one episode reported that We were taking a vote when the ground came up and hit us. Was that really a line? (I wouldn't be surprised) -- but yeah, that was the reason there were three Cylons in a raider. -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
I don't recall that in the original series there was much emphasis being made on the idea of the Cylons being created by humans? Is that just my fuzzy old memory, or is this whole Terminator kind of theme peculiar to the new series? I think in the old series the Cylons were the robotic soldiers of a dead race. IIRC the original Cylons were lizards or something... Damon. Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: UM's PzKpfw 38(t) Ausf. C ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 19:28:04 -0600, Steve Sloan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Damon Agretto wrote: Which of course one should be willing to suspend in order to enjoy SF. I personally like how they're handling this aspect. Different enough from most other SF shows that have been on TV or the movies. Nothing original (and fans of Anime have seen this before), but no less plausable than warpspeed and the like... It's essentially Asimov's Foundation FTL drive, the hyperspace Jump. It takes a lot of time to calculate the right settings, then the jump to the next location is instantantaneous. It's hard to do a space show without FTL, so at least they're not zipping around the universe willy-nilly. There are real limits to how quickly you can get to the next point in your journey. it is much better than the original series which took a tragic and remarkable idea and turned it into a weekly light adventure show with pretty poor acting. This series is at least showing that they are refugees from genocide and are often having a tough time dealing with that. The first series didn't crib only or mostly from the Mormons. It often has general religious names and beliefs from thousands of years ago. It was a reinforcement of the mythology of the series that they are descendent's of a lost advanced society on earth. Or alternately that they would settle Earth thousand of years ago and their beliefs would enter into our history. After the first couple episodes I like most people gave up on the original BS Gal. I think it is a reasonable space drive, hyper jumps of some unknow but limited range, but don't see how the fleet is being tracked. I have missed a number of episodes and may have missed the technobabble.. -- Gary Denton Easter Lemming Liberal News ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
I think it is a reasonable space drive, hyper jumps of some unknow but limited range, but don't see how the fleet is being tracked. I have missed a number of episodes and may have missed the technobabble.. The fleet ISN'T being tracked, as far as we know (or, the evidence doesn't point that way). It WAS being tracked in the 1st regular season episode, but the nixed that pretty well. So far the Cylons are trying to find the fleet the old fashioned, hard way...by sending scouts out to look for them. Of course, there's that little secret so maybe they ARE, but aren't attacking...yet. Damon. Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: UM's PzKpfw 38(t) Ausf. C ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
I'm all full of TV happiness :) -- William T Goodall as am i...as am i. i jsut hope i dont have to wait tillnext january for teh shows to aired on skyone... as i have already seen this entire season Nick I love StarBuck Lidster ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
--- Nick Lidster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm all full of TV happiness :) -- William T Goodall as am i...as am i. me three! I was never exposed to the original series, but I'm loving BG so far - it has a wonderful B5 feel to the darkness. ..AND isn't it nice to see the same special effects shop that did Firefly getting work? They do some wonderful techniques. i jsut hope i dont have to wait tillnext january for teh shows to aired on skyone... as i have already seen this entire season BitTorrent, anyone? -k- __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
On Feb 10, 2005, at 12:29 PM, kerri miller wrote: I was never exposed to the original series, but I'm loving BG so far - it has a wonderful B5 feel to the darkness. The original series was OK in some respects, but *awfully* silly in many others. Much of the mythology mentioned in it was lifted more or less wholesale from Mormon beliefs, which made more than a few Mormons upset. I don't know if it was out of a sense of their beliefs being mocked or disrespected, or because in the context of the series the beliefs made sense, more or less -- but when promoted by the LDS church as truth, the image of Lorne Greene solemnly making declarations about sealing and such was what prospective new members ended up with rather than the sense of awe that the LDS church preferred. On top of that the FX were ... well, the scenes were *tolerable* but the same footage kept getting used over and over. Obvious budget issues. And the hair ... oh my, 1970s disco hair. Every. Where. Not as bad as _Buck Rogers_, but still, pretty bad. If you're in the mood for a giggle, rent the movie sometime to get a feel for what the series entailed. and note the changes; there are many, most of them improvements. AND isn't it nice to see the same special effects shop that did Firefly getting work? They do some wonderful techniques. They do. It's nice seeing an RCS on a spacecraft rather than traditional atmospheric maneuvering techniques, and using projectile weapons instead of beam type devices makes the whole thing a little more grounded in what we like to think of as reality. (Of course the lightspeed stuff is another matter...) -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
(Of course the lightspeed stuff is another matter...) Which of course one should be willing to suspend in order to enjoy SF. I personally like how they're handling this aspect. Different enough from most other SF shows that have been on TV or the movies. Nothing original (and fans of Anime have seen this before), but no less plausable than warpspeed and the like... Damon. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: Revell Germany's M60A3 __ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
On Feb 10, 2005, at 1:49 PM, kerri miller wrote: Wouldn't it be cool to have a show where the cast changed every week because it took them 14 generations to get to the next star system? That might be a stretch for most viewers, but a multiple year arc a la B5 or possibly in the spirit of _Robotech_ might be intriguing. Season 1 is the departure; season 2 is the transition phase with a whole new cast (plus cameos from age-makeup'd season 1 oldsters); season 3 is the arrival, with another cast. All 3 seasons would have plenty of room for adventure and lots of fun for set design as the once-pristine craft becomes aged, patched and takes on a lived-in look. And later seasons could have other cameos from the previous years in holographic avatar form or whatever -- recordings of earlier inhabitants used for reference or something. (My, I just realized I'm borrowing a little from Alastair Reynolds here, but I kind of like the idea.) Season 4 could be the well-established colony launching another craft for the generational return to Earth, with some of the crewmembers, being the great-grands (etc.) of the originals, the same cast from the first season (family resemblance). Hmm. Someone get someone on the phone. ;) -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
William T Goodall wrote: SCI FI Channel has ordered a second season of its hit series Battlestar Galactica, which has aired five episodes of its first season of 13 episodes. Details of the renewalincluding which cast members will return, how many episodes will be produced and when the second season will commencewere still being worked out at press time. Battlestar Galactica has been a ratings winner for SCI FI since its Jan. 14 premiere. The latest episode, Feb. 4's You Can't Go Home Again, scored the show's best ratings yet, with 3.2 million viewers. For the show's second season, creator and executive producer Ronald D. Moore previously told SCI FI Wire that he has already been working on as many as six new scripts to resolve the multiple cliffhangers that will end season one. Moore added that he wants to delve deeper into the show's religious themes and open up the Cylon world a bit more in the coming season. Moore continues to post his thoughts on a personal blog on SCIFI.COM. Battlestar Galactica airs Fridays at 10 p.m. ET/PT, part of the channel's SCI FI Fridays lineup. -- Call me an old fart, but when I was growing up, series used to produce 26-30 episodes a year. Now we' re happy with 13, and they probably won't be in consecutive weeks. George A ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [SPAM] Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
kerri miller asked: Wouldn't it be cool to have a show where the cast changed every week because it took them 14 generations to get to the next star system? --- That WOULD be cool and COULD be very interesting, if done well. Maybe not change the cast every week, but aperiodically during the season or at the end of the season. There wouldn't be too many season-ending cliffhangers tho'. Too easy to say (write), The rupture in Dock 13? Oh, that was repaired 55 years ago. There aren't many left who really remember it. I said if done well. The problem would be twofold. First, actors, like sports stars, would like long term contracts, but this is not insurrmountable. Second, SF series are rarely written by SF writers, but professional TV writers with directions from upstairs. I think they would ruin the show pretty quickly. George A ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
Call me an old fart, but when I was growing up, series used to produce 26-30 episodes a year. Now we' re happy with 13, and they probably won't be in consecutive weeks. Yeah, but the series started mid-season. Normal seasons include 24 episodes. Damon. Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: UM's PzKpfw 38(t) Ausf. C ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
-- Call me an old fart, but when I was growing up, series used to produce 26-30 episodes a year. Now we' re happy with 13, and they probably won't be in consecutive weeks. George A well when aired on SkyOne the only break was over christmas... and that was for 3 weeks. However who knows how SciFi will air them. and kerri with teh multinationalism of this list, im sure there are several memebrs that have seen the entire season. tho your assumption of BitTorrent is correct in my case :) jsut couldnt wait till january to start watching it, well more or less i was looking for teh miniseries to show a friend, and i came across ep01, and ep02, and aftera little searching discovered that it was airing in the UK. Temtation was made so here I stand waiting to find out when it will be aired on Skyone again for season 2 ;) Nick I would not have lasted 40 days in the Desert Lidster ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
Nick Lidster wrote: and kerri with teh multinationalism of this list, im sure there are several memebrs that have seen the entire season. You'd think the networks would be more aware of how much these shows are being propagated around the world ahead of various broadcast dates, especially among Sci-Fi fans. We are currently being blitzed with advertising for the coming soon BG Mini-series, without even a hint of the series (which I thought they'd mention to motivate people to watch the mini-series in case they want to watch the series) Australia is ahead of the rest of the world in Stargate SG-1, but never heard of Atlantis (even though I believe SciFi is trying to keep them more or less parallel) We are days behind US in some shows, weeks ahead in some, and years behind in others, but shows are available for download within hours of their broadcast in either the US or the UK. It's getting to where it is easier to watch downloads/DVD imports than TV. Cheers Russell C. --- This email (including any attachments) is confidential and copyright. The School makes no warranty about the content of this email. Unless expressly stated, this email does not bind the School and does not necessarily constitute the opinion of the School. If you have received this email in error, please delete it and notify the sender. --- GWAVAsig ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
On 10 Feb 2005, at 10:39 pm, Damon Agretto wrote: Call me an old fart, but when I was growing up, series used to produce 26-30 episodes a year. Now we' re happy with 13, and they probably won't be in consecutive weeks. Yeah, but the series started mid-season. Normal seasons include 24 episodes. Most US shows I can think of recently have 22. And some are down to 20. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ A bad thing done for a good cause is still a bad thing. It's why so few people slap their political opponents. That, and because slapping looks so silly. - Randy Cohen. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica renewed
Damon Agretto wrote: Which of course one should be willing to suspend in order to enjoy SF. I personally like how they're handling this aspect. Different enough from most other SF shows that have been on TV or the movies. Nothing original (and fans of Anime have seen this before), but no less plausable than warpspeed and the like... It's essentially Asimov's Foundation FTL drive, the hyperspace Jump. It takes a lot of time to calculate the right settings, then the jump to the next location is instantantaneous. It's hard to do a space show without FTL, so at least they're not zipping around the universe willy-nilly. There are real limits to how quickly you can get to the next point in your journey. __ Steve Sloan . Huntsville, Alabama = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brin-L list pages .. http://www.brin-l.org Science Fiction-themed online store . http://www.sloan3d.com/store Chmeee's 3D Objects http://www.sloan3d.com/chmeee 3D and Drawing Galleries .. http://www.sloansteady.com Software Science Fiction, Science, and Computer Links Science fiction scans . http://www.sloan3d.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
Damon Agretto wrote: Starbuck's a chick??? Maru Yes, and much better for it, IMHO. Given that Dirk Benedict is only about the single worst actor ever, I'd have to agree. :-p Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
On 22 Jan 2005, at 6:46 pm, Gary Nunn wrote: WARNING - VERY minor spoilers of the first three episodes below I liked the Galactica miniseries, but it felt emotionally distant. I did not have that same feeling with Friday's episodes. I am looking forward to seeing the rest of the series, and perhaps having a bit of discussion here about it, if enough people are interested. MD The miniseries had to cram a complex plot - along with complex and involved character dynamics, into three hours, so they were bound to miss out on something. However, as William mentioned, the episodes don't seem to suffer from that same problem. I am still undecided about the side story of Helio on Caprica. I am not quite sure where it is going. I do like the sudden discovery by Number 6 that she has emotions, wants and dislikes. I think that story arc will be very interesting. I also like the inner conflict that Boomer is dealing with now that she suspects that she is a Cylon. I like her character, I would hate to see them kill her off. I saw the second part of the two-part season finale tonight here in the UK, and it was awesome. It seems to be doing well in the USA too, so it is looking good for it be renewed. Now I have a long wait to see what happens next... -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Invest in a company any idiot can run because sooner or later any idiot is going to run it. - Warren Buffet ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
On Jan 24, 2005, at 5:04 PM, William T Goodall wrote: I saw the second part of the two-part season finale tonight here in the UK, and it was awesome. It seems to be doing well in the USA too, so it is looking good for it be renewed. Now I have a long wait to see what happens next... Mm. Nearly as long as we had to wait to see what happened first. :\ -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
I'm very pleasantly surprised so far. I went in expecting crap-o-la, since for every Farscape SciFi gives us five to ten Earthseas, but I caught the miniseries a few weeks ago and have seen the three espisodes since, and I'm hooked. It's on my short must watch list already. Jim Starbuck's a chick??? Maru ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
Starbuck's a chick??? Maru Yes, and much better for it, IMHO. Damon. Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: UM's PzKpfw 38(t) Ausf. C ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
On Jan 24, 2005, at 8:31 PM, Damon Agretto wrote: Starbuck's a chick??? Maru Yes, and much better for it, IMHO. Me too. I like her a lot more than Dirk Benedict's portrayal. Actually watching the miniseries made me forcibly face how sexist the original series was. Even by late 70s standards I think it's pretty damned embarrassing. -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Battlestar Galactica
WARNING - VERY minor spoilers of the first three episodes below I liked the Galactica miniseries, but it felt emotionally distant. I did not have that same feeling with Friday's episodes. I am looking forward to seeing the rest of the series, and perhaps having a bit of discussion here about it, if enough people are interested. MD The miniseries had to cram a complex plot - along with complex and involved character dynamics, into three hours, so they were bound to miss out on something. However, as William mentioned, the episodes don't seem to suffer from that same problem. I am still undecided about the side story of Helio on Caprica. I am not quite sure where it is going. I do like the sudden discovery by Number 6 that she has emotions, wants and dislikes. I think that story arc will be very interesting. I also like the inner conflict that Boomer is dealing with now that she suspects that she is a Cylon. I like her character, I would hate to see them kill her off. Also, on the Male Pig level, what's not to like about watching Tricia Helfer walk around in the tight dresses and a really short towel after the hot tub? :-) By the way, I know that they film in Canada, but I would love to find out the location of the balcony that Baltar and Number 6 were on after she got out of the hot tub. This is the balcony that was overlooking a lake and mountain range. Gary ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:10:06 +, William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Finally started airing in the USA last Friday. In the UK we saw the penultimate episode of the first (thirteen episode) season on Monday. (We got to see it first because SKY is putting in $400,000 per episode without which the show, which costs $1,800,000/ep wouldn't have been made at all.) I think it's very good, and gets even better in the later episodes. I liked the Galactica miniseries, but it felt emotionally distant. I did not have that same feeling with Friday's episodes. I am looking forward to seeing the rest of the series, and perhaps having a bit of discussion here about it, if enough people are interested. MD ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica (was: So it begins....)
John H said: Watch it! This doesn't show over on this side of the pond until January! No spoilers now! I know, and I am trying to remain spoiler-free. Although one thing that William said might be construed as a spoiler, I'm not entirely sure what it's spoiling as it is still vague and mysterious by this point in the series; and to know that the Cylons attack Caprica is nothing that shouldn't be well known from the 1970s version. What is very much surprising me is just how good this new one was. I was in two minds about the initial miniseries, but the series has hovered in the range of good to excellent. Rich ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica Was: Re: So it begins.... Evangelicals to Bush: Payback Time
William said: [For the benefit of foreigners...] S P O I L E R A L E R T S P O I L E R A L E R T [...some of whom I bet will read this anyway] I have no idea what the point of the Cylon-occupied Caprica thread is though. It gets us Boomer in the sun as well as Boomer in the Battlestar. Twice as much Grace Park can't be a bad thing. Also there may be some plot thingy involved that plays out slowly as an arc. A bit of suborning or such. I keep wondering if they are going to return the pair of them to the Galactica, but this would lead to two Boomers in one place, which would be obvious. I am also wondering whether the humanoid entities are really Cylons or if they are Something Else that have somehow taken over Cylon civilisation for their own ends. Have they ever themselves said they are Cylons? I don't recall. There isn't much of the old spaceships-blowing-each-other-up, is there? But they do it rather well when they do. Yes, they do. I think all things considered I'd rather have the battles as infrequent as they are because it's hard to believe that the remain few dozen Vipers could hold out against a weekly Cylon attack like in the old series. Rich ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica Was: Re: So it begins.... Evangelicals to Bush: Payback Time
On 29 Nov 2004, at 10:26 pm, Richard Baker wrote: William said: [For the benefit of foreigners...] S P O I L E R A L E R T S P O I L E R A L E R T [...some of whom I bet will read this anyway] [...and then regret it bitterly] I have no idea what the point of the Cylon-occupied Caprica thread is though. It gets us Boomer in the sun as well as Boomer in the Battlestar. Twice as much Grace Park can't be a bad thing. Also there may be some plot thingy involved that plays out slowly as an arc. A bit of suborning or such. I keep wondering if they are going to return the pair of them to the Galactica, but this would lead to two Boomers in one place, which would be obvious. I am also wondering whether the humanoid entities are really Cylons or if they are Something Else that have somehow taken over Cylon civilisation for their own ends. Have they ever themselves said they are Cylons? I don't recall. I still haven't seen all of both parts of the mini-series. Sky is still repeating it frequently on the Movie channels so I must try and catch up. I think some important clues were in there. The humanoid 'Cylons' were created by the original Cylons. Whether they are actual Cylons, brainwashed slave-humans or artificial life-forms allied with the Cylons is a mystery. The Cylon space-fighters being bio-mechanical hybrids is interesting. There isn't much of the old spaceships-blowing-each-other-up, is there? But they do it rather well when they do. Yes, they do. I think all things considered I'd rather have the battles as infrequent as they are because it's hard to believe that the remain few dozen Vipers could hold out against a weekly Cylon attack like in the old series. That's a good point. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ A bad thing done for a good cause is still a bad thing. It's why so few people slap their political opponents. That, and because slapping looks so silly. - Randy Cohen. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
Thomas Beck wrote: Space: Above and Beyond had a great first season, then it seemed like they started to run out of ideas by the end of the 2nd season. Except...it only _had_ one season... (http://epguides.com/SpaceAboveandBeyond/) (sorry about the late response, things a bit hectic...) Maybe I misremembered it. The show seemed (in my memory) to stretch over two years. Still, it had its good parts. I would have liked to see more. -- Matt ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
From: Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:14:16 -0700 (PDT) I can watch DBZ (my generic name for all things Dragonball) 24/7. I just can't get enough of it. Ugh! Oh come now...what's the problem with DBZ? Speaking of anime (or at least something like anime) has anyone heard anything about a new Astroboy series? What did you want to know? It was recently airing on the Cartoon Network, though I don't know if it still is. I wasn't too keen on watching it, as I wasn't keen on the original either. But if you liked the original, this has better quality animation, and maybe deeper stories (though I only watched a couple episodes at the most). Better animation and deeper stories? Allright! But is the new series a redux of the old? Or is it a continuation of that Universe with all new adventures? -Travis I know Goku wouldn't kick Astroboy's ass!! Edmunds _ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-capage=byoa/premxAPID=1994DI=1034SU=http://hotmail.com/encaHL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
Oh come now...what's the problem with DBZ? Every time I see it, it seems like they're fighting the EXACT same fight scene as the day before, and the day before that... But is the new series a redux of the old? Or is it a continuation of that Universe with all new adventures? Couldn't say more. I never watched the original Astroboy in anything approaching interest. Seen a bit for the anime history appreciation factor, but had/have very little interest. Besides, my intro to Anime was with Starblazers/Space Battleship Yamato... Damon. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
- Original Message - From: Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 03, 2004 11:32 AM Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica Oh come now...what's the problem with DBZ? Every time I see it, it seems like they're fighting the EXACT same fight scene as the day before, and the day before that... That's the basic idea. Each battle takes about 6 episodes to complete!G Actually, I like DB and DBZ, but have only seen a couple of episodes of DBGT. Its sort of a Kung Fu Anime Soap Opera. But is the new series a redux of the old? Or is it a continuation of that Universe with all new adventures? Couldn't say more. I never watched the original Astroboy in anything approaching interest. Seen a bit for the anime history appreciation factor, but had/have very little interest. Besides, my intro to Anime was with Starblazers/Space Battleship Yamato... It's something of a halfhearted re-imagining in the same way the new Speed Racer was. xponent Introduced My Wife's Best Friend To Princess Mononoke And She Had To Stay To Watch The End Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: War in Space, was Re: Battlestar Galactica
From: Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] You might check out Space Empires 4, highly recommended, as well as Star Fire, Traveler, GURPS Space and other space games. Ah Gary. I'm already a big-time gamer, so I'm well aware of all that! I was big into SE4 for a while. If you like turn-based strategy, have you checked out Dominions 2, from the same publisher as SE4? It's fantasy-based, rather than sci-fi, but it's an excellent turn-based strategy game. It's by a 2-man developer (and published by Shrapnel Games), so the graphics and user interface are just so-so, but the gameplay depth is amazing. It's already held my attention about 2-3 times as long as most similar-type games do, and I'm still hooked. _ Getting married? Find tips, tools and the latest trends at MSN Life Events. http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: War in Space, was Re: Battlestar Galactica
Robert Seeberger wrote: Offhand, I can think of different type of fighting craft a Space Carrier might deploy. A fighter craft that in swarms, protects the Carrier by forming a protective sphere, or singly or in small groups act as recon. A torpedo craft that launches attacks against carriers or other similarly large structures. An atmospheric fighter (lander too?) for planetary missions. Small scout craft with long range travel potential carrying equipment that makes it equivilent to our AWACs. Very small drones that act in concert and compliment all the other craft. A Carrier would have to be enormous to carry full compliments of each of these fighting machines, but that might be the way it would need to be done. Interesting discussion going on here, but did you guys read the article posted by Byron a week or so ago? It covers some of the same ground and goes into some detailed speculations. The url Byron gave was: http://www.denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2004/04/SpaceNavies2.shtml http://tinyurl.com/2xmzr Regards, Ray. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: War in Space, was Re: Battlestar Galactica
Interesting discussion going on here, but did you guys read the article posted by Byron a week or so ago? It covers some of the same ground and goes into some detailed speculations. Yes. I even commented on it. But no one replied... :( Damon. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: War in Space, was Re: Battlestar Galactica
You might check out Space Empires 4, highly recommended, as well as Star Fire, Traveler, GURPS Space and other space games. On Sat, 1 May 2004 13:14:42 -0400, Damon Agretto ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: War in Space, was Re: Battlestar Galactica
You might check out Space Empires 4, highly recommended, as well as Star Fire, Traveler, GURPS Space and other space games. Ah Gary. I'm already a big-time gamer, so I'm well aware of all that! Damon. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 19:26:51 -0500 Besides, how much Dragonball (can one tolerate???) I can watch DBZ (my generic name for all things Dragonball) 24/7. I just can't get enough of it. Speaking of anime (or at least something like anime) has anyone heard anything about a new Astroboy series? -Travis that little guy was tough!! Edmunds _ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-capage=byoa/premxAPID=1994DI=1034SU=http://hotmail.com/encaHL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
I can watch DBZ (my generic name for all things Dragonball) 24/7. I just can't get enough of it. Ugh! Speaking of anime (or at least something like anime) has anyone heard anything about a new Astroboy series? What did you want to know? It was recently airing on the Cartoon Network, though I don't know if it still is. I wasn't too keen on watching it, as I wasn't keen on the original either. But if you liked the original, this has better quality animation, and maybe deeper stories (though I only watched a couple episodes at the most). Damon. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Battlestar Galactica
Perfectly true, anyone can be a grunt, however when your in the middle of no where, have no backup, and need to get the job done what do you do? Though you fly in the clouds, a marine is a grunt first. The 58th was heralded as the best of the best. To me they were flying grunts, more then once the played in the dirt. A necessity then, more so then now, with the earth at the edge of defeat and loosing more men/women then we can replace even through invitro's it comes to a point that everyone no matter how trained must do the lowliest job. Of course that is my opinion. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Battlestar Galactica
Perfectly true, anyone can be a grunt, however when your in the middle of no where, have no backup, and need to get the job done what do you do? Though you fly in the clouds, a marine is a grunt first. The 58th was heralded as the best of the best. To me they were flying grunts, more then once the played in the dirt. A necessity then, more so then now, with the earth at the edge of defeat and loosing more men/women then we can replace even through invitro's it comes to a point that everyone no matter how trained must do the lowliest job. Of course that is my opinion. Still doesn't make sense. If you really are on the ropes, then a trained pilot you invested several million dollars and several months worth of training will be FAR MORE VALUABLE than some draftee pulled off the street, given cursory training and a rifle. To put this in perspective, in 11 months of combat, from 6 June 1944 to 8 May 1945, the 1st Infantry Division lost some 212% of its personnel. If you factor in the fact that not all personnel in the division are trigger pullers (probably 1/2 to 2/3 are), then the losses probably approach more like 300% or more. With that in mind, its just not cost effective to expend valuable, trained (and more importantly) EXPERIENCED pilots in something a teen ager with 2 months of training can do equally well. And I find it hard to believe that a carrier (or carrier battlegroup, as although escorts were never shown, they must have been there) wouldn't have embarked Marine platoons, or even assault ships, as part of their fleet, especially if ground combat would be known to be encountered. At the very least, it would be better to gather the cooks and other unessential personnel, give them rifles, and send them into combat, just as it was done at Bastogne, and really throughout the US campaign in Europe when we began to feel the manpower crunch when all the better suited troops were either dead or wounded. Damon. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
- Original Message - From: Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 11:02 AM Subject: RE: Battlestar Galactica Perfectly true, anyone can be a grunt, however when your in the middle of no where, have no backup, and need to get the job done what do you do? Though you fly in the clouds, a marine is a grunt first. The 58th was heralded as the best of the best. To me they were flying grunts, more then once the played in the dirt. A necessity then, more so then now, with the earth at the edge of defeat and loosing more men/women then we can replace even through invitro's it comes to a point that everyone no matter how trained must do the lowliest job. Of course that is my opinion. Still doesn't make sense. If you really are on the ropes, then a trained pilot you invested several million dollars and several months worth of training will be FAR MORE VALUABLE than some draftee pulled off the street, given cursory training and a rifle. To put this in perspective, in 11 months of combat, from 6 June 1944 to 8 May 1945, the 1st Infantry Division lost some 212% of its personnel. If you factor in the fact that not all personnel in the division are trigger pullers (probably 1/2 to 2/3 are), then the losses probably approach more like 300% or more. Wow. I realize losses were high, but I never thought about them being that high. My uncle was a chaplin with those forces and he was tremendously disturbed by what he saw...although he never went into details. I can see why. With that in mind, its just not cost effective to expend valuable, trained (and more importantly) EXPERIENCED pilots in something a teen ager with 2 months of training can do equally well. IIRC, in WWII, pilots were a tremendous bottleneck. It was far easier to produce 30,000 figher And I find it hard to believe that a carrier (or carrier battlegroup, as although escorts were never shown, they must have been there) wouldn't have embarked Marine platoons, or even assault ships, as part of their fleet, especially if ground combat would be known to be encountered. At the very least, it would be better to gather the cooks and other unessential personnel, give them rifles, and send them into combat, just as it was done at Bastogne, and really throughout the US campaign in Europe when we began to feel the manpower crunch when all the better suited troops were either dead or wounded. One thing I've always thought silly was the whole idea of carriers in space. Air craft carriers work well because the planes they launch travel in a different medium than the ships: air vs. water. Carriers in space are like two battle groups of large ships launching a number of small boats to engage in combat. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
One thing I've always thought silly was the whole idea of carriers in space. Air craft carriers work well because the planes they launch travel in a different medium than the ships: air vs. water. Carriers in space are like two battle groups of large ships launching a number of small boats to engage in combat. I'm not so sure about that. One of the reasons carriers were effective (and still are) is because you can fight your enemy at an arms distance...you don't have to close with him. In this context a carrier essentially becomes a battle transport for smaller attack craft, that can then be used to defend the ship at an arms distance, or to launch attacks of their own. The best protection a ship can have is to NOT expose itself to enemy guns... Damon. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
- Original Message - From: Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 12:02 PM Subject: Re: Battlestar Galactica One thing I've always thought silly was the whole idea of carriers in space. Air craft carriers work well because the planes they launch travel in a different medium than the ships: air vs. water. Carriers in space are like two battle groups of large ships launching a number of small boats to engage in combat. I'm not so sure about that. One of the reasons carriers were effective (and still are) is because you can fight your enemy at an arms distance...you don't have to close with him. In this context a carrier essentially becomes a battle transport for smaller attack craft, that can then be used to defend the ship at an arms distance, or to launch attacks of their own. The best protection a ship can have is to NOT expose itself to enemy guns... Right, but why do we only have aircraft carriers, and not small boat carriers for fleet vs. fleet operations? IMHO, its because aircraft has a different set of tradeoffs from boats/ships. I cannot imagine a carrier of, say PT boats being effective in fleet to fleet operations. If they were effective, wouldn't we have had at least one PT carrier in a fleet? Dan M. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
War in Space, was Re: Battlestar Galactica
At 12:02 PM 4/30/04, Damon Agretto wrote: One thing I've always thought silly was the whole idea of carriers in space. Air craft carriers work well because the planes they launch travel in a different medium than the ships: air vs. water. Carriers in space are like two battle groups of large ships launching a number of small boats to engage in combat. I'm not so sure about that. One of the reasons carriers were effective (and still are) is because you can fight your enemy at an arms distance...you don't have to close with him. In this context a carrier essentially becomes a battle transport for smaller attack craft, that can then be used to defend the ship at an arms distance, or to launch attacks of their own. The best protection a ship can have is to NOT expose itself to enemy guns... Also, given the distances involved, even if the two planets at war are neighbors in an astronomical sense, in most cases it is unrealistic for a one- or two-man craft to be able to travel the entire round-trip distance to the enemy world and back. First, whatever technology is assumed for traveling great distances, if it relies on known physics, it is going to be bulky (frex, reaching relativistic speeds requires, even assuming 100% conversion of fuel mass into motive energy, a mass of fuel at least several times the mass of the payload (off the top of my head I seem to remember that it would take 10x the mass of the ship to reach a speed of about 99.5% of c, assuming 100% efficiency, so you can multiply that by the reciprocal of the true efficiency), and that's just for accelerating from rest to relativistic speeds. To slow down, you have to bring that much fuel along, so the total fuel for a one way trip is that multiple of the ship's mass squared (100x in the above example), and for a round trip, unless you can count on refueling at your destination before starting back, the total fuel required at the start becomes the \fourth power\ of that multiple (10,000x in the above example), whereas a non-relativistic ship would be so slow that no one but virtual immortals would consider using one as a warship (what would be the point of launching an attack over a perceived insult in an interstellar radio message when it's possible that by the time your attack craft get there the \species\ that sent out the message may be extinct or evolved into something else), and even they would have to carry along enough consumables for the journey unless it is assumed they can be put in stasis for the duration), and if it relies on unknown physics(hyperdrive, warp drive, etc.), it is frequently assumed to be bulky. Even if we assume that a warp engine can be built small enough to install in something the equivalent of an F-15 or an F-16 or even a B-52, assuming that the crew is composed of humans or beings with similar limitations puts a rather low upper limit on how long such beings could remain on duty flying it without stopping to rest. Carrying the fighters or bombers on board an aircraft carrier allows for a much larger engine and fuel supply than would fit on a smaller craft and allows for enough personnel that the carrier crew can work in shifts around the clock, and the fighter pilots can rest until the carrier gets close enough to the enemy planet or fleet that the round-trip flight time is at most a few hours, similar to the duration of a mission for such aircraft today. (Granted, one can think of some ways around some of these limitations, but some of those will introduce additional complications of their own.) -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
Nick Lidster wrote: Perfectly true, anyone can be a grunt, however when your in the middle of no where, have no backup, and need to get the job done what do you do? Though you fly in the clouds, a marine is a grunt first. The 58th was heralded as the best of the best. To me they were flying grunts, more then once the played in the dirt. And aside from the other objections, why would that war even *need* ground troops? The enemy on the show constantly wore spacesuits in Earth-like environments, suggesting that they couldn't live on the planets they were trying to conquer. Early in the show, an alien prisoner even turned into a puddle of green goo after drinking ordinary water! Why would the aliens want to conquer planets where humans live, if they can't live there? Maybe they want to terraform the Earth-like planets so they can live there. Maybe the planets they've been living on are in the same solar systems as the human colonies, and they're too territorial to allow human colonies in solar systems they already claim. In either case, why wouldn't they just bomb the colonists from orbit, instead of wasting their ground troops? Ship-to-ship fighting and dogfights would make sense in that scenario, as humans fight to keep alien bombers or terraforming machines from their colonies, but I can't think of a good reason for ground fighting. __ Steve Sloan . Huntsville, Alabama = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brin-L list pages .. http://www.brin-l.org Science Fiction-themed online store . http://www.sloan3d.com/store Chmeee's 3D Objects http://www.sloan3d.com/chmeee 3D and Drawing Galleries .. http://www.sloansteady.com Software Science Fiction, Science, and Computer Links Science fiction scans . http://www.sloan3d.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
Maybe they want to terraform the Earth-like planets so they can live there. Maybe the planets they've been living on are in the same solar systems as the human colonies, and they're too territorial to allow human colonies in solar systems they already claim. In either case, why wouldn't they just bomb the colonists from orbit, instead of wasting their ground troops? Ship-to-ship fighting and dogfights would make sense in that scenario, as humans fight to keep alien bombers or terraforming machines from their colonies, but I can't think of a good reason for ground fighting. While the bombig from orbit point is a good one, the thing that immediately jumps to my mind is that these locations have some sort of strategic importance, and bases, supply dumps, forward listening posts, etc. And they may have felt threatened when another intelligent species parks right in their back yard. So while they may not neccessarily need or want to terraform (alienform?) the planets to their purposes, they may have wartime value beyond that. Thus, ground troops in spacesuits to provide ground security. Damon. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Battlestar Galactica
You cant win a war in the sky, you got to have troops to hold the ground. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Battlestar Galactica
From: Steve Sloan II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] machines from their colonies, but I can't think of a good reason for ground fighting. Mars needs women? - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: War in Space, was Re: Battlestar Galactica
Offhand, I can think of different type of fighting craft a Space Carrier might deploy. A fighter craft that in swarms, protects the Carrier by forming a protective sphere, or singly or in small groups act as recon. A torpedo craft that launches attacks against carriers or other similarly large structures. An atmospheric fighter (lander too?) for planetary missions. Small scout craft with long range travel potential carrying equipment that makes it equivilent to our AWACs. Very small drones that act in concert and compliment all the other craft. A Carrier would have to be enormous to carry full compliments of each of these fighting machines, but that might be the way it would need to be done. xponent We Come In Peace, You Got A Problem With That? Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Battlestar Galactica
At 02:56 PM 4/30/04, Nick Lidster wrote: You cant win a war in the sky, you got to have troops to hold the ground. Assuming you want to hold the ground. If for some reason you are simply interested in wiping out vermin (the alien race) who pose a threat to you, perhaps in the way that a nest of very nasty hornets in a tree right outside your back door would, you could simply sterilize the planet by nuking the entire surface from orbit (or even further away) . . . -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
Damon Agretto wrote: Combat in space, however, there is no equivalent (at least known) to aircraft; so essentially everything is a ship. So, rather than looking at space fighters as aircraft, rather look at them as small ships. But there may be: if we assume that interstellar travel is totally different from interplanetary travel, we would have two different classes of spaceships. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
Ronn! wrote: Assuming you want to hold the ground. If for some reason you are simply interested in wiping out vermin (the alien race) who pose a threat to you, perhaps in the way that a nest of very nasty hornets in a tree right outside your back door would, you could simply sterilize the planet by nuking the entire surface from orbit (or even further away) . . . The Mike Lee solution! -- Doug Hey Mikey! He likes it! maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
Robert Seeberger wrote: SciFi bats at a bit less than .100 IMO. I know a lot of people *like* SG1, but it seems fairly pedestrian to me, and people like it mainly because there is nothing substantially better offered. Julia Thompson wrote: Interesting. SG1 started out as a Showtime series. It may have gone downhill a bit since SciFi picked up the production. Nick Lidster wrote: Julia I beleive the timing of the switch over was during season 5.. Showtime droped it about half way through the season and SiFi picked it up. IN true SiFi channel style they have tried to reinvent the seris and make it more appealling to the general population, IMO there has been only 2 margionaly rewatchable episodes since then in season 6..(I know that season 7 is done in the states but up in the great white north we only just finished season 6)... that being said I can still sit down a watch almost all of teh older shows with no problem or question to story line... IMO SiFi has destroyed what was once a show with so much... potential and given far less... SG: atalantis i think will die a horrible death.. I'd agree, the quality has suffered recently, mostly from the misconception that more powerful enemies automatically makes for better stories. *sigh*. Oh anyone remember a show called Space Above and Beyond.. had some great potential but it got axed... Space: Above and Beyond had a great first season, then it seemed like they started to run out of ideas by the end of the 2nd season. I would like to see an outer limits style series of short stories all set in the same universe, but not necessarily featuring any of the same characters. Kind of a Thieves World on TV. -- Matt ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
Damon Agretto wrote: I only watch Cartoon Network religiously. I thought that IYO religion is evil . . . Any network that airs Ed, Ed and Eddy MUST be evil... Damon. They are TOTALLY redeemed by running Aqua Teen Hunger Force, Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law and Sealab 2021. -- Matt let's not forget Futurama and Family Guy... ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
let's not forget Futurama and Family Guy... And lets not forget Space Ghost! Unfortunately the anime they're showing now is either stuff I already have, or is just not very interesting. Besides, how much Dragonball or SD Gundam can one tolerate??? Damon. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Battlestar Galactica
Space: Above and Beyond had a great first season, then it seemed like they started to run out of ideas by the end of the 2nd season. Except...it only _had_ one season... (http://epguides.com/SpaceAboveandBeyond/) -- Tom Beck my LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/tomfodw/ New York (Football) Giants: http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Go_Big_Blue/ _The Universal Baseball Association, Inc., J. Henry Waugh, Prop._ Fan Club: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/j_henry_waugh/ I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never thought I'd see the last. - Dr. Jerry Pournelle -- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
