New CF5 Partner Hosting License
Allaire's Partners just received an email announcing ColdFusion Server 5 Hosting Service Provider Edition, which "consists of a new End-User License for commercial hosting service providers." The gist of it is that Hosting Providers will now be charged extra for the privilege of running multiple CF sites on a shared server. As far as I can tell, all the new features of CF5 will be in the Enterprise edition, so the only difference between Enterprise and Hosting is that the latter will cost more. Some value. I sent Allaire an email registering my strong disapproval of this new hosting partner penalty fee, pointing out that "GoTech is already subjected to marketplace pressures due to the free nature of Microsoft's Active Server Page (ASP) technology, and Allaire/Macromedia's continual ratcheting up of ColdFusion's price is potentially debilitating to our efforts to deploy your product." Perhaps they see their only competition in the BEA/WebLogic/IBM/Oracle application server space. This may be the case for Enterprise, but there's no way this is the case with hosting providers. We're competing in the trenches with ASP, which is free on NT/2000, and at some point the benefits of the CF environment will be outweighed by its cost... Maybe I'm just jumping to conclusions, and this is actually (somehow) a benfit to hosting partners. Thoughts? ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
Here's a real interesting line from the announcement: "The ColdFusion 5 Enterprise and Pro End-User License will no longer permit multiple ColdFusion applications and/or sites to be hosted on a single ColdFusion server." What the heck does this mean? What is the definitiion of multiple CF applications? If I create more than one application on a server then I need to pay more $$$? Howie - Original Message - From: "Dylan Bromby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 1:55 PM Subject: RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > wow. i'm not sure this is a good idea. if macromedia increases the cost of > CF dramatically, it makes it easier to choose alternatives whether they're > free or in the same price range of whatever the pricing under these new > terms turns out to be. > > > -Original Message- > From: Chris Colón [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 10:39 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > > > Allaire's Partners just received an email announcing ColdFusion Server 5 > Hosting Service Provider Edition, which > "consists of a new End-User License for commercial hosting service > providers." > > The gist of it is that Hosting Providers will now be charged extra for the > privilege of running multiple CF sites > on a shared server. As far as I can tell, all the new features of CF5 will > be in the Enterprise edition, so the > only difference between Enterprise and Hosting is that the latter will cost > more. Some value. > > I sent Allaire an email registering my strong disapproval of this new > hosting partner penalty fee, pointing out > that "GoTech is already subjected to marketplace pressures due to the free > nature of Microsoft's Active Server Page > (ASP) technology, and Allaire/Macromedia's continual ratcheting up of > ColdFusion's price is potentially > debilitating to our efforts to deploy your product." Perhaps they see their > only competition in the > BEA/WebLogic/IBM/Oracle application server space. This may be the case for > Enterprise, but there's no way this is > the case with hosting providers. We're competing in the trenches with ASP, > which is free on NT/2000, and at some > point the benefits of the CF environment will be outweighed by its cost... > > Maybe I'm just jumping to conclusions, and this is actually (somehow) a > benfit to hosting partners. Thoughts? > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
The newsgroups and mailing lists are always full of people searching for decent good value CF hosting, if this makes it more difficult for companies to offer that service it could be very bad news for CF. - Original Message - From: "Dylan Bromby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 6:55 PM Subject: RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > wow. i'm not sure this is a good idea. if macromedia increases the cost of > CF dramatically, it makes it easier to choose alternatives whether they're > free or in the same price range of whatever the pricing under these new > terms turns out to be. > > > -Original Message- > From: Chris Colón [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 10:39 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > > > Allaire's Partners just received an email announcing ColdFusion Server 5 > Hosting Service Provider Edition, which > "consists of a new End-User License for commercial hosting service > providers." > > The gist of it is that Hosting Providers will now be charged extra for the > privilege of running multiple CF sites > on a shared server. As far as I can tell, all the new features of CF5 will > be in the Enterprise edition, so the > only difference between Enterprise and Hosting is that the latter will cost > more. Some value. > > I sent Allaire an email registering my strong disapproval of this new > hosting partner penalty fee, pointing out > that "GoTech is already subjected to marketplace pressures due to the free > nature of Microsoft's Active Server Page > (ASP) technology, and Allaire/Macromedia's continual ratcheting up of > ColdFusion's price is potentially > debilitating to our efforts to deploy your product." Perhaps they see their > only competition in the > BEA/WebLogic/IBM/Oracle application server space. This may be the case for > Enterprise, but there's no way this is > the case with hosting providers. We're competing in the trenches with ASP, > which is free on NT/2000, and at some > point the benefits of the CF environment will be outweighed by its cost... > > Maybe I'm just jumping to conclusions, and this is actually (somehow) a > benfit to hosting partners. Thoughts? > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
> wow. i'm not sure this is a good idea. if macromedia > increases the cost of > CF dramatically, it makes it easier to choose alternatives > whether they're > free or in the same price range of whatever the pricing under > these new > terms turns out to be. Or makes it easier to not use the technology at all. Look at the effect of their price increases on the use of Generator. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
> Here's a real interesting line from the announcement: > > "The ColdFusion 5 Enterprise and Pro End-User License will no > longer permit > multiple ColdFusion applications and/or sites to be hosted on a single > ColdFusion server." > > What the heck does this mean? What is the definitiion of multiple CF > applications? If I create more than one application on a > server then I need > to pay more $$$? If that's true, we won't be moving to CF5. Sorry, Macromedia, but that would be a bad, bad licensing ploy on your part. I'm sure we're not unique in hosting about 20 CF sites of our own on one server. Ron Allen Hornbaker President/CTO Humankind Systems, Inc. http://humankindsystems.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ..¸_¸.·´¯) http://www.BookCrossing.com ~ Read and Release! (¯`·.¸_¸. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
Anyone seen a pricing structure for cf5? We're going to feel pretty ackward if they actually lower the prices. ;-) If not, then I agree with you. -Original Message- From: Chris Colón [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 12:39 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: New CF5 Partner Hosting License Allaire's Partners just received an email announcing ColdFusion Server 5 Hosting Service Provider Edition, which "consists of a new End-User License for commercial hosting service providers." The gist of it is that Hosting Providers will now be charged extra for the privilege of running multiple CF sites on a shared server. As far as I can tell, all the new features of CF5 will be in the Enterprise edition, so the only difference between Enterprise and Hosting is that the latter will cost more. Some value. I sent Allaire an email registering my strong disapproval of this new hosting partner penalty fee, pointing out that "GoTech is already subjected to marketplace pressures due to the free nature of Microsoft's Active Server Page (ASP) technology, and Allaire/Macromedia's continual ratcheting up of ColdFusion's price is potentially debilitating to our efforts to deploy your product." Perhaps they see their only competition in the BEA/WebLogic/IBM/Oracle application server space. This may be the case for Enterprise, but there's no way this is the case with hosting providers. We're competing in the trenches with ASP, which is free on NT/2000, and at some point the benefits of the CF environment will be outweighed by its cost... Maybe I'm just jumping to conclusions, and this is actually (somehow) a benfit to hosting partners. Thoughts? ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
At 14:19 26/04/01 -0400 Howie Hamlin said >Here's a real interesting line from the announcement: > >"The ColdFusion 5 Enterprise and Pro End-User License will no longer permit >multiple ColdFusion applications and/or sites to be hosted on a single >ColdFusion server." > >What the heck does this mean? What is the definitiion of multiple CF >applications? If I create more than one application on a server then I need >to pay more $$$? Does this mean they may be pricing it to handle one application per Domain. Along the lines of some mail servers where you pay more to handle multiple Domains? I do not see how else they can differentiate "Multiple Cold Fusion applications". It is the or sites that sounds like this is what they mean. Or am I way off track. Perhaps the base price will be less and you purchase a 10/20/50 or whatever Domains licence as required? Certainly sounds like a major change. Gordon ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
Hi, >Anyone seen a pricing structure for cf5? >We're going to feel pretty ackward if they >actually lower the prices. ;-) If not, then I >agree with you. I wouldn't want to calculate the chances of CF5 Hosting Edition costing LESS than CF4.5 Pro -- It won't happen. Please, MacroMedia -- Prove me wrong! David ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
> If that's true, we won't be moving to CF5. Sorry, Macromedia, but that > would be a bad, bad licensing ploy on your part. I'm sure > we're not unique > in hosting about 20 CF sites of our own on one server. Might be an idea to send these opinions to the folks at Macromedia. Anyone know of an appropriate contact email address to send comments about this licence change?> ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
> At 14:19 26/04/01 -0400 Howie Hamlin said > >Here's a real interesting line from the announcement: > > > >"The ColdFusion 5 Enterprise and Pro End-User License will no longer permit > >multiple ColdFusion applications and/or sites to be hosted on a single > >ColdFusion server." I've got 3 sites on my machine (HoF, FA and CT). They're all mine and not 'owned' by anyone else. Is this a hosting situation? The logical answer is no. CFHosting, VirtualScape and others have people renting space on box. The people don't own the box and there are multiple sites owned by multiple people. Is that a hosting situation? Logically, yes. The issue is making sure A/MM defines hosting properly. If they don't, then small guys like me and anyone else with more than one domain name will be hurt. On the other hand, if they're dropping the price for the 'single domain' version and keeping the price the same for the hosting version, then there's no real complaint. On the other hand, they use the term "Hosting Service Providers" throughout the document. While parts can apply to someone like me, the HSP doesn't. I think all they have to do is define what a HSP is. I know that A/MM is watching these lists and are gathering our reactions. I think they're going to come out with some solid information on this soon. I love you people but we are programmers and one of the psychological traits of a programmer is paranoia. How much is the question, but when we're all together we feed off each other. And of course, the paranoia may be totally real. :) ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
Hmm... good thing some of us know PhP and ASP... we may need those skills after all. -Original Message- From: Gordon Burns [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 3:01 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License At 14:19 26/04/01 -0400 Howie Hamlin said >Here's a real interesting line from the announcement: > >"The ColdFusion 5 Enterprise and Pro End-User License will no longer permit >multiple ColdFusion applications and/or sites to be hosted on a single >ColdFusion server." > >What the heck does this mean? What is the definitiion of multiple CF >applications? If I create more than one application on a server then I need >to pay more $$$? Does this mean they may be pricing it to handle one application per Domain. Along the lines of some mail servers where you pay more to handle multiple Domains? I do not see how else they can differentiate "Multiple Cold Fusion applications". It is the or sites that sounds like this is what they mean. Or am I way off track. Perhaps the base price will be less and you purchase a 10/20/50 or whatever Domains licence as required? Certainly sounds like a major change. Gordon ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
Heh. I agree, but I doubt that'll be the case. At the end of the announcement was this bit: "In an effort to help our Hosting Partners take advantage of the upcoming demand for ColdFusion 5 features, Macromedia will be providing a special promotional upgrade offer. More information regarding ColdFusion 5 Hosting Edition upgrade promotion, pricing and availability will be released on April 30, 2001." We probably wouldn't need a "special promotional upgrade offer" unless the cost is going up. Nevermind that the "upgrade" will probably consist of no new or extra features (unless you count complying with the new, more expensive license as a feature). Robert Long wrote: > Anyone seen a pricing structure for cf5? > > We're going to feel pretty ackward if they > actually lower the prices. ;-) If not, then I > agree with you. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
It really depends upon the price, if it's not to expensive, priced similar to a CAL for Win2k or thereabouts, this wont be a problem. However if the price goes higher than a couple hundred dollars per site it no longer is profitable to charge somone a competitive price for a simple CF shoppingcart or message forum on a shared server. What is the definition of a ColdFusion site? Any site that uses CF? What if they have a simple cfmail program and that's it? If the price becomes prohibitive, it makes sense to check out php or asp+. If the price is too high, we will probably be sticking with 4.5 on all of our servers, and not doing a wholesale upgrade like we were planning. and I was just starting to like Macromedia... jon - Original Message - From: "Chris Colón" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 1:39 PM Subject: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > Allaire's Partners just received an email announcing ColdFusion Server 5 Hosting Service Provider Edition, which > "consists of a new End-User License for commercial hosting service providers." > > The gist of it is that Hosting Providers will now be charged extra for the privilege of running multiple CF sites > on a shared server. As far as I can tell, all the new features of CF5 will be in the Enterprise edition, so the > only difference between Enterprise and Hosting is that the latter will cost more. Some value. > > I sent Allaire an email registering my strong disapproval of this new hosting partner penalty fee, pointing out > that "GoTech is already subjected to marketplace pressures due to the free nature of Microsoft's Active Server Page > (ASP) technology, and Allaire/Macromedia's continual ratcheting up of ColdFusion's price is potentially > debilitating to our efforts to deploy your product." Perhaps they see their only competition in the > BEA/WebLogic/IBM/Oracle application server space. This may be the case for Enterprise, but there's no way this is > the case with hosting providers. We're competing in the trenches with ASP, which is free on NT/2000, and at some > point the benefits of the CF environment will be outweighed by its cost > > Maybe I'm just jumping to conclusions, and this is actually (somehow) a benfit to hosting partners. Thoughts? > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
> Might be an idea to send these opinions to the folks at Macromedia. > > Anyone know of an appropriate contact email address to send comments about > this licence change?> I agree. The announcement came from [EMAIL PROTECTED], which is where I sent some feedback of my own... ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
OUCH! I don't care if they lower pricing..but the one thing I like about CF is being able to host multiple apps from one server with no worries about Per use, or Per application. If we have to go through anything further in terms of licensing, or cost, or managing all this stuff then I'm afraid CF will lose a great deal of its attractiveness for me, and it will be time to start looking elsewhere for Rapid web application development. :-\ *sigh* I don't think I like how this merger is turning out. -Gel -Original Message- From: zac [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Or makes it easier to not use the technology at all. Look at the effect of their price increases on the use of Generator. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
Like George Carlin say's: Just because you are paranoid that doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. - Original Message - From: "Michael Dinowitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 2:36 PM Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > > At 14:19 26/04/01 -0400 Howie Hamlin said > > >Here's a real interesting line from the announcement: > > > > > >"The ColdFusion 5 Enterprise and Pro End-User License will no longer > permit > > >multiple ColdFusion applications and/or sites to be hosted on a single > > >ColdFusion server." > I've got 3 sites on my machine (HoF, FA and CT). They're all mine and not > 'owned' by anyone else. Is this a hosting situation? The logical answer is > no. CFHosting, VirtualScape and others have people renting space on box. The > people don't own the box and there are multiple sites owned by multiple > people. Is that a hosting situation? Logically, yes. The issue is making > sure A/MM defines hosting properly. If they don't, then small guys like me > and anyone else with more than one domain name will be hurt. On the other > hand, if they're dropping the price for the 'single domain' version and > keeping the price the same for the hosting version, then there's no real > complaint. > On the other hand, they use the term "Hosting Service Providers" throughout > the document. While parts can apply to someone like me, the HSP doesn't. I > think all they have to do is define what a HSP is. > I know that A/MM is watching these lists and are gathering our reactions. I > think they're going to come out with some solid information on this soon. I > love you people but we are programmers and one of the psychological traits > of a programmer is paranoia. How much is the question, but when we're all > together we feed off each other. And of course, the paranoia may be totally > real. :) > > > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
>'owned' by anyone else. Is this a hosting situation? The logical answer is >no. and the stock optioned/bonussed suits' answer is ?? Len ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
>We probably wouldn't need a "special promotional upgrade offer" unless the >cost is going up. that´s "cost per server-side app and PER YEAR ad infinitum". MS h >Robert Long wrote: > > > Anyone seen a pricing structure for cf5? > > > > We're going to feel pretty ackward if they > > actually lower the prices. ;-) If not, then I > > agree with you. > > > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
Angél Stewart wrote: > If we have to go through anything further in terms of licensing, or cost, or > managing all this stuff then I'm afraid CF will lose a great deal of its > attractiveness for me, and it will be time to start looking elsewhere for > Rapid web application development. Which is exactly what happened with Generator. I was playing with the developer edition of it when it came out but then they increased the licence costs through the roof and I had no real choice about using it anymore. You would think that a company that has basically built itself via small-scale individual developers would know better than try to make these immediate, short term gains at the expense of long term usability but it appears that they don't. Pricing products with institutional or corporate users in mind ultimately just kills off the support of smaller developers. (qualified of course with the caveat that I am not totally sure of the exact nature of the pricing changes but that I am just being pessimistic) -- Remember, what we do here might seem like criminal fraud but its not. Its marketing! Scott Adams email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.pixelgeek.com/ ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
It sounds like MM is going to throw the CF community a bone and then stick us in the pound. They "kill" Spectra, restructure licensing, float our pallets, and make us develop with a Studio / UltraDev hybrid. All this comes from the boardroom, not a developer wish list. Former Drumbeat developers still don't have a comparable solution in UltraDev. You have to remember, MM wants to make money, not necessarily provide a better development environment for us. This can be achieved by bringing CF down to the point a general HTML developer can create a viable application. Paul -Original Message- From: Chris Colón [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 2:48 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License Heh. I agree, but I doubt that'll be the case. At the end of the announcement was this bit: "In an effort to help our Hosting Partners take advantage of the upcoming demand for ColdFusion 5 features, Macromedia will be providing a special promotional upgrade offer. More information regarding ColdFusion 5 Hosting Edition upgrade promotion, pricing and availability will be released on April 30, 2001." We probably wouldn't need a "special promotional upgrade offer" unless the cost is going up. Nevermind that the "upgrade" will probably consist of no new or extra features (unless you count complying with the new, more expensive license as a feature). Robert Long wrote: > Anyone seen a pricing structure for cf5? > > We're going to feel pretty ackward if they > actually lower the prices. ;-) If not, then I > agree with you. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
- Original Message - From: "Jon Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 1:54 PM Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > It really depends upon the price, if it's not to expensive, priced similar > to a CAL for Win2k or thereabouts, this wont be a problem. > However if the price goes higher than a couple hundred dollars per site it > no longer is profitable to charge somone a competitive price for a simple CF > shoppingcart or message forum on a shared server. Couple hundred dollars per site!!? If hosting providers lose the ability to offer CF hosting at prices comparable to ASP hosting, CF will see a DRAMATIC loss of users. How long a time period at $20-$30 per month would it take to recoup such an investment? A _long_ damned time. Many (probably MOST) CF hosts currently can't afford the luxury of CF Enterprise on all of their shared servers. They run CF Pro and restrict what tags can be run on the server. If we can't even host more than one of our _own_ sites off a CF Pro license, we'll be sticking at CF 4.x for the time being, while looking at moving to another technology. Jim ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
I think we should look at the original post again and calm down a bit. Notice how they say Hosting Service Providers? They're not talking about me with my 3 domains on a machine. They're not talking about you with your 2 or whatever domains on your machine. They're talking about CFHosting.com, who are defined as a business that provides hosting. They're talking about businesses, not people. While I could be wrong on this, I don't think I am. Relax. We'll see how it goes, but jumping to conclusions and thinking that we have to do the unimaginable (going to asp or perl) is not needed. ColdFusion will be here for us and I think that A/MM will see us for what we are, an asset to ColdFusion. We've just got to relax. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
I'm sure too many people will be chiming in, but I just wanted to drop my two cents worth. The reason I went with Cold Fusion vs. ASP to develop with was a combination of ease to learn and cost. It was just at (and still is) my upper end of pricing to support. This is especially important when it came to learning CF for the first time. I was just starting out, and didn't have a lot of money (sort of a delayed-student impoverishment situation). CF was my risk. In this case it paid off well, though I don't believe I would have chosen CF if it cost more. My thought is, increases in price may jeopardize "new young blood". And while they may not be skilled, and use a lot of support from lists like this, they do help in the face of the large .asp Mego-beast. Second, without much cash, I host/own about 32 domains. Not many are active, many are pointers to others (name variations - for example tallylist.com is my mailing list resource, so I also grabbed listtally.com). But if I had (have) to pay per (per what? processor, platform, function & features, IPs, domains - a combination all of this) - I can quickly see me moving platforms. Finally, one of my projects was building a four-city, TV station based system. I argued (successfully) for Cold Fusion as the back-end. But I did face resistance, so I'm not sure how much more hard cost they would have accepted before saying - no: .asp instead. You may argue that they had money - but the funds all came from different small budgets, each defended by individual managers. Even large projects might change in scope for the lack "of a nail" in one small department. In this case - the budget for IT hardware, capital costs. So, while I accept pricing changes (they are often reflective well of changes in market) - I do worry. The strongest, being the most personal, is the changes to "site licenses for each web site". How can I continue to have my fancy of developing specific, fun, cool, frolicking, just plain silly, home-page based, just for the hell of it or satire based web sites, and keep them all running if I have a hard cost looking me in the face each time. This is highly specific to programmers who also build recreationally, and build many small non-commercial web sites. "Well I could build a small site for the joy of blah, or to ridicule Stockwell Day (Canadian Politician), but now I've got a hard cost above my time. Does this mean so long for the recreational programmer? I would be required to switch to a platform which doesn't require hard costs (and no saying that I can re-use the license by taking down the first site. Sort of defeats the purpose of the web where you can leave information up, or pander to an uncommon interest. Yeah, that's my 2 cents worth. Stephen R. Cassady please visit my NON-COMMERCIAL WEB SITES WRITTEN IN COLD FUSION including: http://www.tallylist.com TallyList - where we utilize COLD FUSION TO SUPPORT THE DEVELOPER COMMUNITY BECAUSE OF THE LOW OVERHEAD AND START UP COSTS. -Original Message- i agree with your latter sentiments. we've been developing more and more non-CF (jsp, php, asp) applications for a variety of reasons. and now i'm very, very glad. i also agree this doesn't appear to be headed in a positive direction, but i suppose we need to wait and see what MM comes up with. like you, i hope they consider this very carefully. -Original Message- From: Jon Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 4:09 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
We love you people too Mike! *big grin* But its not Paranoia if they ARE out to get you! *casts furtive glances around himself* -Gel -Original Message- From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] I love you people but we are programmers and one of the psychological traits of a programmer is paranoia. How much is the question, but when we're all together we feed off each other. And of course, the paranoia may be totally real. :) ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
$200 would take a long time. However if we need to purchase site licenses for each web site AND it is possible to reuse them, it then becomes more palatable to me. I really hope Macromedia thinks this through thoroughly. Don't get me wrong, I think the whole idea is heading in the wrong direction. However it depends on the price and if Macromedia is going to do this we need some benefits. Maybe including more Generator components? Some of the security benefits from Enterprise? Around here, the word php and asp have even been mentioned by a couple of guys who not a week ago would have snarled fiercely if you asked them what they thought about either... jon - Original Message - From: "Jim McAtee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 5:33 PM Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > - Original Message - > From: "Jon Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 1:54 PM > Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > > > > It really depends upon the price, if it's not to expensive, priced similar > > to a CAL for Win2k or thereabouts, this wont be a problem. > > However if the price goes higher than a couple hundred dollars per site it > > no longer is profitable to charge somone a competitive price for a simple > CF > > shoppingcart or message forum on a shared server. > > > Couple hundred dollars per site!!? If hosting providers lose the ability to > offer CF hosting at prices comparable to ASP hosting, CF will see a DRAMATIC > loss of users. How long a time period at $20-$30 per month would it take to > recoup such an investment? A _long_ damned time. > > Many (probably MOST) CF hosts currently can't afford the luxury of CF > Enterprise on all of their shared servers. They run CF Pro and restrict > what tags can be run on the server. > > If we can't even host more than one of our _own_ sites off a CF Pro license, > we'll be sticking at CF 4.x for the time being, while looking at moving to > another technology. > > Jim > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
Totally agree with your comments on Generator... I looked at early versions of it, then when it came out, couldn't afford to purchase it either. We are a small web development company, who were priced out of Generator, and with Macromedias track record, I can see us being priced out of ColdFusion too. Are Macromedia only interested in targeting the 'large' web development companies out there?? (With the current state of our dollar, 'out there' = the US). Maybe I'll be proved wrong. but I doubt it. On Friday, April 27, 2001, at 07:08 AM, zac wrote: > AngÈl Stewart wrote: > >> If we have to go through anything further in terms of licensing, or >> cost, or >> managing all this stuff then I'm afraid CF will lose a great deal of >> its >> attractiveness for me, and it will be time to start looking elsewhere >> for >> Rapid web application development. > > Which is exactly what happened with Generator. > > I was playing with the developer edition of it when it came out but then > they increased the licence costs through the roof and I had no real > choice > about using it anymore. > > You would think that a company that has basically built itself via > small-scale individual developers would know better than try to make > these > immediate, short term gains at the expense of long term usability but it > appears that they don't. > > Pricing products with institutional or corporate users in mind > ultimately > just kills off the support of smaller developers. > > > (qualified of course with the caveat that I am not totally sure of the > exact > nature of the pricing changes but that I am just being pessimistic) > > > > -- > >Remember, what we do here might seem like criminal >fraud but its not. Its marketing! > >Scott Adams > >email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >WWW: http://www.pixelgeek.com/ > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
- Original Message - From: "Paul Sizemore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 3:57 PM Subject: RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > It sounds like MM is going to throw the CF community a bone and then stick > us in the pound. They "kill" Spectra, restructure licensing, float our > pallets, and make us develop with a Studio / UltraDev hybrid. All this comes > from the boardroom, not a developer wish list. > > Former Drumbeat developers still don't have a comparable solution in > UltraDev. > > You have to remember, MM wants to make money, not necessarily provide a > better development environment for us. This can be achieved by bringing CF > down to the point a general HTML developer can create a viable application. > > Paul > > -Original Message- > From: Chris Colón [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 2:48 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > > Heh. I agree, but I doubt that'll be the case. At the end of the > announcement was this bit: > > "In an effort to help our Hosting Partners take advantage of the upcoming > demand for ColdFusion 5 features, > Macromedia will be providing a special promotional upgrade offer. More > information regarding ColdFusion 5 Hosting > Edition upgrade promotion, pricing and availability will be released on > April 30, 2001." > > We probably wouldn't need a "special promotional upgrade offer" unless the > cost is going up. Nevermind that the > "upgrade" will probably consist of no new or extra features (unless you > count complying with the new, more > expensive license as a feature). > > > Robert Long wrote: > > > Anyone seen a pricing structure for cf5? > > > > We're going to feel pretty ackward if they > > actually lower the prices. ;-) If not, then I > > agree with you. > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
And the ironic thing is, that the Allaire brothers always stated they wouldn't loose a ColdFusion sale on the price!!! The price of ColdFusion over the last couple of years has gone through the roof... even more so with our crappy dollar. If this is the case for CF5, then I can see a lot of people down under giving CF the flick. As good and quick as it is, it's not going to go anywhere if people can't afford to use it. On Friday, April 27, 2001, at 04:50 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Here's a real interesting line from the announcement: >> >> "The ColdFusion 5 Enterprise and Pro End-User License will no >> longer permit >> multiple ColdFusion applications and/or sites to be hosted on a single >> ColdFusion server." >> >> What the heck does this mean? What is the definitiion of multiple CF >> applications? If I create more than one application on a >> server then I need >> to pay more $$$? > > If that's true, we won't be moving to CF5. Sorry, Macromedia, but that > would be a bad, bad licensing ploy on your part. I'm sure we're not > unique > in hosting about 20 CF sites of our own on one server. > > Ron Allen Hornbaker > President/CTO > Humankind Systems, Inc. > http://humankindsystems.com > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ..â_â.âÂ¥Ã) http://www.BookCrossing.com ~ Read and Release! (Ã`â.â_â. > > > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
- Original Message - From: "Paul Sizemore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 9:57 PM > > You have to remember, MM wants to make money, not necessarily provide a > better development environment for us. This can be achieved by bringing CF > down to the point a general HTML developer can create a viable application. MM would do much better to make CF Server free, and sell super high performance rich development tools to target that environment - the universe of developers would be much larger. Adrian Cooper. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
> and make us develop with a Studio / UltraDev hybrid. If this ever even gets proposed I'm going to move into a new field. Hell, any field. I would though hope that the company is not so blind as to even attempt anything that misguided. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
- Original Message - From: "Jim McAtee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 10:33 PM > > Couple hundred dollars per site!!? If hosting providers lose the ability to > offer CF hosting at prices comparable to ASP hosting, CF will see a DRAMATIC > loss of users. How long a time period at $20-$30 per month would it take to > recoup such an investment? A _long_ damned time. I would go as far as to say commercially unviable. Most major hosting companies in the UK will only support ASP because they won't pay for a copy of CF for each server when they don't get any additional revenue for offering it. They sure as heck won't pay per site! > If we can't even host more than one of our _own_ sites off a CF Pro license, > we'll be sticking at CF 4.x for the time being, while looking at moving to > another technology. Join the queue! Adrian Cooper. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
i agree with your latter sentiments. we've been developing more and more non-CF (jsp, php, asp) applications for a variety of reasons. and now i'm very, very glad. i also agree this doesn't appear to be headed in a positive direction, but i suppose we need to wait and see what MM comes up with. like you, i hope they consider this very carefully. -Original Message- From: Jon Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 4:09 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License $200 would take a long time. However if we need to purchase site licenses for each web site AND it is possible to reuse them, it then becomes more palatable to me. I really hope Macromedia thinks this through thoroughly. Don't get me wrong, I think the whole idea is heading in the wrong direction. However it depends on the price and if Macromedia is going to do this we need some benefits. Maybe including more Generator components? Some of the security benefits from Enterprise? Around here, the word php and asp have even been mentioned by a couple of guys who not a week ago would have snarled fiercely if you asked them what they thought about either... jon - Original Message - From: "Jim McAtee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 5:33 PM Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > - Original Message - > From: "Jon Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 1:54 PM > Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > > > > It really depends upon the price, if it's not to expensive, priced similar > > to a CAL for Win2k or thereabouts, this wont be a problem. > > However if the price goes higher than a couple hundred dollars per site it > > no longer is profitable to charge somone a competitive price for a simple > CF > > shoppingcart or message forum on a shared server. > > > Couple hundred dollars per site!!? If hosting providers lose the ability to > offer CF hosting at prices comparable to ASP hosting, CF will see a DRAMATIC > loss of users. How long a time period at $20-$30 per month would it take to > recoup such an investment? A _long_ damned time. > > Many (probably MOST) CF hosts currently can't afford the luxury of CF > Enterprise on all of their shared servers. They run CF Pro and restrict > what tags can be run on the server. > > If we can't even host more than one of our _own_ sites off a CF Pro license, > we'll be sticking at CF 4.x for the time being, while looking at moving to > another technology. > > Jim > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
But the small development companies, particularly outside the US where bandwidth is a lot more expensive, cannot afford to host their own machines, and so we rely on virtual hosts like the CFHosting and the Cyberhost etc etc. If we will have to pay extra for our sites to be hosted on these servers, to cover the cost of licensing, then we will have to rethink our 'commitment' to ColdFusion. The majority of our client choose to use virtual servers for obvious reasons, and because they don't have the resources to host or maintain in-house. If these restrictions and costs get imposed on the Host providers, then they are going to be passed on to us, and then our clients, who are simply going to say that XYZ company are going to write in ASP/PHP/JSP and hosting is going to be a fraction of the cost. It already costs more to have a CF site hosted than an ASP site... How much more is this going to make it?? For the individuals on this list, it may not be a worry... For the small development companies, it could well be. And we are talking about Macromedia See the references in other messages to Generator. Priced out of the small-business league. Macromedia are in it for the money, and this is a concern that I've had since the merger. on 4/27/01 1:04 PM, Michael Dinowitz at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I think we should look at the original post again and calm down a bit. > Notice how they say Hosting Service Providers? They're not talking about me > with my 3 domains on a machine. They're not talking about you with your 2 or > whatever domains on your machine. They're talking about CFHosting.com, who > are defined as a business that provides hosting. They're talking about > businesses, not people. > While I could be wrong on this, I don't think I am. Relax. We'll see how it > goes, but jumping to conclusions and thinking that we have to do the > unimaginable (going to asp or perl) is not needed. ColdFusion will be here > for us and I think that A/MM will see us for what we are, an asset to > ColdFusion. We've just got to relax. > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
Thank you. - Chris -Original Message- From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 10:05 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License I think we should look at the original post again and calm down a bit. Notice how they say Hosting Service Providers? They're not talking about me with my 3 domains on a machine. They're not talking about you with your 2 or whatever domains on your machine. They're talking about CFHosting.com, who are defined as a business that provides hosting. They're talking about businesses, not people. While I could be wrong on this, I don't think I am. Relax. We'll see how it goes, but jumping to conclusions and thinking that we have to do the unimaginable (going to asp or perl) is not needed. ColdFusion will be here for us and I think that A/MM will see us for what we are, an asset to ColdFusion. We've just got to relax. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
All I can say is, lets wait and see what the price change is. I can't see CFHosting saying that every customer has to fork up an extra $100 a month for licensing. An extra $5 or $10, maybe but not a major amount. And that's all based on the license. Lets say that the license is an extra $2000. On a shared box with 10 sites that can come to an additional start up fee of $200 or less. Now take into account that most smaller sites may be 50 or 100 to a box (I'm not sure of exact numbers). So a hosting company may say "If you want to move up to a box with CF 5 on it we're charging a moving fee of $20-$50". Doing that as a one time thing will either take care of the licensing or close enough to it. As I've said in the past, I know the people at CFHosting (yes, I'm biased). I don't think they're going to screw the community or themselves on this. Same goes for the other hosts as well. I also don't think that A/MM is going to try and destroy the hosting business. They want to make money (who doesn't) but they also have an eye towards the future. Getting licensing money from hosting companies isn't as painful as if they asked us ALL for an extra few thousand. But as I said in the beginning of this post, lets wait and see. > But the small development companies, particularly outside the US where > bandwidth is a lot more expensive, cannot afford to host their own machines, > and so we rely on virtual hosts like the CFHosting and the Cyberhost etc > etc. > > If we will have to pay extra for our sites to be hosted on these servers, to > cover the cost of licensing, then we will have to rethink our 'commitment' > to ColdFusion. > > The majority of our client choose to use virtual servers for obvious > reasons, and because they don't have the resources to host or maintain > in-house. If these restrictions and costs get imposed on the Host > providers, then they are going to be passed on to us, and then our clients, > who are simply going to say that XYZ company are going to write in > ASP/PHP/JSP and hosting is going to be a fraction of the cost. It already > costs more to have a CF site hosted than an ASP site... How much more is > this going to make it?? > > For the individuals on this list, it may not be a worry... For the small > development companies, it could well be. And we are talking about > Macromedia See the references in other messages to Generator. Priced > out of the small-business league. Macromedia are in it for the money, and > this is a concern that I've had since the merger. > > > > on 4/27/01 1:04 PM, Michael Dinowitz at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > I think we should look at the original post again and calm down a bit. > > Notice how they say Hosting Service Providers? They're not talking about me > > with my 3 domains on a machine. They're not talking about you with your 2 or > > whatever domains on your machine. They're talking about CFHosting.com, who > > are defined as a business that provides hosting. They're talking about > > businesses, not people. > > While I could be wrong on this, I don't think I am. Relax. We'll see how it > > goes, but jumping to conclusions and thinking that we have to do the > > unimaginable (going to asp or perl) is not needed. ColdFusion will be here > > for us and I think that A/MM will see us for what we are, an asset to > > ColdFusion. We've just got to relax. > > > > > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
On 4/26/01, Michael Dinowitz penned: >I think we should look at the original post again and calm down a bit. >Notice how they say Hosting Service Providers? They're not talking about me >with my 3 domains on a machine. They're not talking about you with your 2 or >whatever domains on your machine. They're talking about CFHosting.com, who >are defined as a business that provides hosting. They're talking about >businesses, not people. LOL I resemble that remark. While I do host about 30 CF sites at the moment, and maybe 75 static sites, it is just me and my wife, and while a business, we are a business consisting of just 2 "people" that decided to build our business around ColdFusion. And with the cost of 3 servers (SQL Server, Web/CF Server and Firewall), the cost of Cf 4.51, SQL 2000 licensing and gobs and gobs of other stuff, Mail Server, FTP Server, blah blah blah, we have close to $40k invested in the past year and are at about $1k per month in profit above operating costs. It's going to be a long time coming before we show a dime in the black. 10+ years would be my guess. LOL My point is, I'm not going to another platform. I have too much invested. The good thing about software is, it doesn't wear out. So unless I can get an upgrade to CF 5 when it comes out, and still run an unlimited number of sites on 2 CPUs, for near $2k, I'll just stick with 4.5. There are alot of small hosting companies out there, and large ones also probably, that simply won't give their cash to macromedia unless the return is worth it. I've done fine without querying queries and using built-in functions for 2 years now. I can go awhile longer. I tried my darndest to wait until the 30th when the official pricing is released. -- Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ColdFusion Solutions / eCommerce Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.twcreations.com/ 954.721.3452 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
Was this announcement sent to *all* A/MM Partners? I didn't see it. Can someone who received it shoot me a copy, please? Thanks. Chris Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Development & Consulting http://www.astutia.com Allaire Sales & Consulting Partner 210-490-3249/888-745-7603Fax 210-490-4692 Instant Messaging: AIM: astutiaweb; ICQ: 7381282; MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -Original Message- > From: Chris Colón [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 2:58 PM > > I agree. The announcement came from [EMAIL PROTECTED], > which is where I sent some feedback of my own... ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
But here is the rub. What about those companies that host 30 or 40,000 CF websites in the ultra competitive $9.95 per month. A $5 increase per domain is 50% increase in costs. Too many users will just bail. McAllaire never understood that it was the ISP's that offered low cost CF hosting created a small army of CF developers who then took their skills developing a small CF app to manage the local soccer club registration system into the corporate world and build enterprise applications. Putting the screws to the small ISP hosting company to try and generate revenue on a per domain license will just force these same ISP's to bail on CF and start offering PHP and ASP which has no licensing costs. It is too bad that McAllaire doesn't' get this. - Steve Steve Pierce, HDL "Co-Location starting $99 per month, no setup fee" (734) 482-9682 | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://HDL.com -Original Message- From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 11:46 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License All I can say is, lets wait and see what the price change is. I can't see CFHosting saying that every customer has to fork up an extra $100 a month for licensing. An extra $5 or $10, maybe but not a major amount. And that's all based on the license. Lets say that the license is an extra $2000. On a shared box with 10 sites that can come to an additional start up fee of $200 or less. Now take into account that most smaller sites may be 50 or 100 to a box (I'm not sure of exact numbers). So a hosting company may say "If you want to move up to a box with CF 5 on it we're charging a moving fee of $20-$50". Doing that as a one time thing will either take care of the licensing or close enough to it. As I've said in the past, I know the people at CFHosting (yes, I'm biased). I don't think they're going to screw the community or themselves on this. Same goes for the other hosts as well. I also don't think that A/MM is going to try and destroy the hosting business. They want to make money (who doesn't) but they also have an eye towards the future. Getting licensing money from hosting companies isn't as painful as if they asked us ALL for an extra few thousand. But as I said in the beginning of this post, lets wait and see. > But the small development companies, particularly outside the US where > bandwidth is a lot more expensive, cannot afford to host their own machines, > and so we rely on virtual hosts like the CFHosting and the Cyberhost etc > etc. > > If we will have to pay extra for our sites to be hosted on these servers, to > cover the cost of licensing, then we will have to rethink our 'commitment' > to ColdFusion. > > The majority of our client choose to use virtual servers for obvious > reasons, and because they don't have the resources to host or maintain > in-house. If these restrictions and costs get imposed on the Host > providers, then they are going to be passed on to us, and then our clients, > who are simply going to say that XYZ company are going to write in > ASP/PHP/JSP and hosting is going to be a fraction of the cost. It already > costs more to have a CF site hosted than an ASP site... How much more is > this going to make it?? > > For the individuals on this list, it may not be a worry... For the small > development companies, it could well be. And we are talking about > Macromedia See the references in other messages to Generator. Priced > out of the small-business league. Macromedia are in it for the money, and > this is a concern that I've had since the merger. > > > > on 4/27/01 1:04 PM, Michael Dinowitz at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > I think we should look at the original post again and calm down a bit. > > Notice how they say Hosting Service Providers? They're not talking about me > > with my 3 domains on a machine. They're not talking about you with your 2 or > > whatever domains on your machine. They're talking about CFHosting.com, who > > are defined as a business that provides hosting. They're talking about > > businesses, not people. > > While I could be wrong on this, I don't think I am. Relax. We'll see how it > > goes, but jumping to conclusions and thinking that we have to do the > > unimaginable (going to asp or perl) is not needed. ColdFusion will be here > > for us and I think that A/MM will see us for what we are, an asset to > > ColdFusion. We've just got to relax. > > > > > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
Please leave me alone now. The future is games! ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
- Original Message - From: "Paul Sizemore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 9:57 PM Subject: RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > It sounds like MM is going to throw the CF community a bone and then stick > us in the pound. They "kill" Spectra, restructure licensing, float our > pallets, and make us develop with a Studio / UltraDev hybrid. All this comes > from the boardroom, not a developer wish list. > > Former Drumbeat developers still don't have a comparable solution in > UltraDev. > > You have to remember, MM wants to make money, not necessarily provide a > better development environment for us. This can be achieved by bringing CF > down to the point a general HTML developer can create a viable application. But the cost of hosting those applications will make CF an unlikely choice. I would say the majority of CF development work is actually done on small sites running on shared servers. I have worked on dozens of such sites and I know of one problem that I always have to get over - the customer complaining about hosting costs, even when it's only £40 or so per month. I welcomed the Spectra announcement, it was obvious that something had to be done as it was way too expensive to be used on most sites, unfortunately it now looks like CF may become another product like Generator - very nice but out of most companies price range. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
I think it just went to hosting partners. I didn't get one either. It will be interesting to see how this pans out. After all, CF5 is just a stepping stone to Neo isn't it? Surely if they hike the pricing model too high, no-one will pick up CF5 when there is a MAJOR new release round the corner. I will have to look at the costs, the implications of not adopting it etc.. before we make a decision on CF5. I think if A/MM aren't careful this could turn around and bite them on the backside!! Just my opinion Will -Original Message- From: Chris Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 27 April 2001 06:21 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License Was this announcement sent to *all* A/MM Partners? I didn't see it. Can someone who received it shoot me a copy, please? Thanks. Chris Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Development & Consulting http://www.astutia.com Allaire Sales & Consulting Partner 210-490-3249/888-745-7603Fax 210-490-4692 Instant Messaging: AIM: astutiaweb; ICQ: 7381282; MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -Original Message- > From: Chris Colón [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 2:58 PM > > I agree. The announcement came from [EMAIL PROTECTED], > which is where I sent some feedback of my own... ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
- Original Message - From: "Adrian Cooper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 11:03 PM Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > > - Original Message - > From: "Paul Sizemore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 9:57 PM > > > > > You have to remember, MM wants to make money, not necessarily provide a > > better development environment for us. This can be achieved by bringing CF > > down to the point a general HTML developer can create a viable application. > > MM would do much better to make CF Server free, and sell super high performance > rich development tools to target that environment - the universe of developers > would be much larger. > > Adrian Cooper. Not a bad idea, they could even keep Enterprise as a paid for premium product and put Pro out for free. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
> I think we should look at the original post again and calm down a bit. > Notice how they say Hosting Service Providers? They're not > talking about me > with my 3 domains on a machine. They're not talking about you > with your 2 or > whatever domains on your machine. They're talking about > CFHosting.com, who > are defined as a business that provides hosting. Do you know how many companies offer ColdFusion hosting in the UK? I know of about 10-15, none of which are large, well-known companies. Why? Demon told me it was the cost of the Application Server versus demand. There response was "develop in ASP". If this pricing policy works its way through, hosting companies in the UK are going to be *less* likely to purchase CFAS, not more. And of the ones that have, all of them have a "price per domain" pricing structure. I was hoping to see "reseller" ColdFusion hosting options appear in the UK where you can host multiple domains for a fixed price per month (as a developer, that's ideal - we stand to generate monthly revenue the more we develop in ColdFusion), but I can't see that happening if this announcement comes into effect. So, end result, less ColdFusion hosting on offer, hosting prices don't come down, people reluctant to go down the ColdFusion route as it seems increasingly "marginialised", proprietary and costly to host. ColdFusion isn't particularly mainstream in the UK as it is. Why do something that runs the risk of making it even less-so? This announcement stands to hit hosting companies in the short term and developers (who have to source hosting solutions for the applications they develop) in the longer term. If the price squeeze is enough, ColdFusion Server sales in the UK will suffer, the effects of which will cascade down to the point at which developers learn other languages and suggest they develop applications in those instead. Methinks Allaire/Macromedia might be trying to recoup their losses on Spectra... -- Aidan Whitehall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Netshopperuk Telephone +44 (01744) 648650 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
Correct..especially for Off Shore development such as what I do here in Trinidad. Our net connections can't support an INternational Website, so we HAVE to host on shared servers abroad like Hostpro.net or CFHOSTING etc. If the COST of hosting on a CF Enabled server goes up..why the heck would anyone outside the US choose Coldfusion??? That market is going to die off. True some may say well its not a sizeable market..but why COULDN'T it be? :) The Caribbean, and Latin America is only now, I think, starting to experience the .COM burst that the States experienced two or more years ago..Companies are starting to realise that the net is there and the net can help them. Trinidad is only just getting Wireless Cable Modems, we have Direct PC etc. and its the same thing that's starting to happen all up the caribbean island chain...these people gonna want development done. Right now everyone here knows .ASP. If it costs much more to put up a client website in the states on Coldfusion..they're not going to even sniff at CF. -Gel www.carigamer.com Island Gaming At Its Best!(tm) -Original Message- From: Nick Texidor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] But the small development companies, particularly outside the US where bandwidth is a lot more expensive, cannot afford to host their own machines, and so we rely on virtual hosts like the CFHosting and the Cyberhost etc etc. If we will have to pay extra for our sites to be hosted on these servers, to cover the cost of licensing, then we will have to rethink our 'commitment' to ColdFusion. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
YES!! He ssss the light! -Gel www.carigamer.com ISLAND GAMING AT ITS BEST!(tm) hee hee -Original Message- From: Peter Tilbrook [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Please leave me alone now. The future is games! ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
- Original Message - From: "Aidan Whitehall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 11:27 AM Yes - having been in the Internet industry in Britain ever since there was one - I founded one of the first fully national ISP's - I can certainly endorse the comments of Aidan. What few hosting companies that have been willing hitherto to support Cold Fusion will surely do so no longer if the new pricing schema is at it would appear to be. Service providers of all types are used to getting things for free - Linux, Apache, Sendmail etc.., and premium charges for CF are hardly going to encourage service providers in general to consider actually paying for a server side application. I have to say - this is extremely myopic of Macromedia (subject to seeing the full details) - it will push developers who may have been waivering to ASP/PHP etc., and other free middleware. I still firmly believe that the best strategy would be to make CF Server free, and focus on marketing development tools to a much wider audience as a result. I think the Netscape browser is a good parallel - they had to make it free and open source to encourage people to use the portal. No one will pay for browsers anymore than they will for expensive middleware, when the alternatives are free and widely supported. Adrian Cooper. > > Do you know how many companies offer ColdFusion hosting in the UK? I know of > about 10-15, none of which are large, well-known companies. > > Why? Demon told me it was the cost of the Application Server versus demand. > There response was "develop in ASP". > > If this pricing policy works its way through, hosting companies in the UK > are going to be *less* likely to purchase CFAS, not more. > > And of the ones that have, all of them have a "price per domain" pricing > structure. I was hoping to see "reseller" ColdFusion hosting options appear > in the UK where you can host multiple domains for a fixed price per month > (as a developer, that's ideal - we stand to generate monthly revenue the > more we develop in ColdFusion), but I can't see that happening if this > announcement comes into effect. > > So, end result, less ColdFusion hosting on offer, hosting prices don't come > down, people reluctant to go down the ColdFusion route as it seems > increasingly "marginialised", proprietary and costly to host. ColdFusion > isn't particularly mainstream in the UK as it is. Why do something that runs > the risk of making it even less-so? > > This announcement stands to hit hosting companies in the short term and > developers (who have to source hosting solutions for the applications they > develop) in the longer term. > > If the price squeeze is enough, ColdFusion Server sales in the UK will > suffer, the effects of which will cascade down to the point at which > developers learn other languages and suggest they develop applications in > those instead. > > > Methinks Allaire/Macromedia might be trying to recoup their losses on > Spectra... > > > -- > Aidan Whitehall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Netshopperuk > Telephone +44 (01744) 648650 > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
Well, personally I get a feeling that this is the first nail in the coffin of CF Application Server - see the logic - increase the price to push it up to be in the same league as Broadvision and Vignette - drop spectra as the webtop never worked - over price the "back end" middle ware and wait and see if large companies buy it - in the meantime develop jrun to act as CF Application Server - if CF 5 at new price fails - drop it like spectra and release jrun CF at slightly increased prices to old CF Enterprise - get us all to use that instead - etc, etc, - I'm off to buy a PHP book. J -Original Message- From: Adrian Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 27 April 2001 12:24 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License - Original Message - From: "Aidan Whitehall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 11:27 AM Yes - having been in the Internet industry in Britain ever since there was one - I founded one of the first fully national ISP's - I can certainly endorse the comments of Aidan. What few hosting companies that have been willing hitherto to support Cold Fusion will surely do so no longer if the new pricing schema is at it would appear to be. Service providers of all types are used to getting things for free - Linux, Apache, Sendmail etc.., and premium charges for CF are hardly going to encourage service providers in general to consider actually paying for a server side application. I have to say - this is extremely myopic of Macromedia (subject to seeing the full details) - it will push developers who may have been waivering to ASP/PHP etc., and other free middleware. I still firmly believe that the best strategy would be to make CF Server free, and focus on marketing development tools to a much wider audience as a result. I think the Netscape browser is a good parallel - they had to make it free and open source to encourage people to use the portal. No one will pay for browsers anymore than they will for expensive middleware, when the alternatives are free and widely supported. Adrian Cooper. > > Do you know how many companies offer ColdFusion hosting in the UK? I know of > about 10-15, none of which are large, well-known companies. > > Why? Demon told me it was the cost of the Application Server versus demand. > There response was "develop in ASP". > > If this pricing policy works its way through, hosting companies in the UK > are going to be *less* likely to purchase CFAS, not more. > > And of the ones that have, all of them have a "price per domain" pricing > structure. I was hoping to see "reseller" ColdFusion hosting options appear > in the UK where you can host multiple domains for a fixed price per month > (as a developer, that's ideal - we stand to generate monthly revenue the > more we develop in ColdFusion), but I can't see that happening if this > announcement comes into effect. > > So, end result, less ColdFusion hosting on offer, hosting prices don't come > down, people reluctant to go down the ColdFusion route as it seems > increasingly "marginialised", proprietary and costly to host. ColdFusion > isn't particularly mainstream in the UK as it is. Why do something that runs > the risk of making it even less-so? > > This announcement stands to hit hosting companies in the short term and > developers (who have to source hosting solutions for the applications they > develop) in the longer term. > > If the price squeeze is enough, ColdFusion Server sales in the UK will > suffer, the effects of which will cascade down to the point at which > developers learn other languages and suggest they develop applications in > those instead. > > > Methinks Allaire/Macromedia might be trying to recoup their losses on > Spectra... > > > -- > Aidan Whitehall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Netshopperuk > Telephone +44 (01744) 648650 > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
MacroMedia/Allaire should know that a Server Side Application Server like Cold Fusion can't be compared to servers such as mail servers,webserver, etc.and push the big licensing fees. One big difference is those servers can be purschased & installed out of the box and do its thing with the existing software. Cold Fusion requires applications(thus developers). What good is a server if the applications aren't there to run on it? Developers developing Cold Fusion apps is what makes the demand for a ColdFusion Server. That does Macromedia little good if we are developing in PHP,ASP etc. They are either missing the whole boat here or they have another agenda on down the road for their plans of ColdFusion. Unfortunately, its probably the latter. I agree with the reply yesterday( i don't remember who posted it), but they should make ColdFusion Server free and then charge us the high end prices for the RAD environments and the rich tools that they can provide to develop applications. - Original Message - From: "James Maltby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 7:00 AM Subject: RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > Well, personally I get a feeling that this is the first nail in the coffin > of CF Application Server - see the logic - increase the price to push it up > to be in the same league as Broadvision and Vignette - drop spectra as the > webtop never worked - over price the "back end" middle ware and wait and see > if large companies buy it - in the meantime develop jrun to act as CF > Application Server - if CF 5 at new price fails - drop it like spectra and > release jrun CF at slightly increased prices to old CF Enterprise - get us > all to use that instead - etc, etc, - I'm off to buy a PHP book. > > J > > -Original Message- > From: Adrian Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 27 April 2001 12:24 > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Aidan Whitehall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 11:27 AM > > > Yes - having been in the Internet industry in Britain ever since there was > one - > I founded one of the first fully national ISP's - I can certainly endorse > the > comments of Aidan. > > What few hosting companies that have been willing hitherto to support Cold > Fusion will surely do so no longer if the new pricing schema is at it would > appear to be. > > Service providers of all types are used to getting things for free - Linux, > Apache, Sendmail etc.., and premium charges for CF are hardly going to > encourage > service providers in general to consider actually paying for a server side > application. > > I have to say - this is extremely myopic of Macromedia (subject to seeing > the > full details) - it will push developers who may have been waivering to > ASP/PHP > etc., and other free middleware. > > I still firmly believe that the best strategy would be to make CF Server > free, > and focus on marketing development tools to a much wider audience as a > result. > > I think the Netscape browser is a good parallel - they had to make it free > and > open source to encourage people to use the portal. No one will pay for > browsers > anymore than they will for expensive middleware, when the alternatives are > free > and widely supported. > > Adrian Cooper. > > > > > > Do you know how many companies offer ColdFusion hosting in the UK? I know > of > > about 10-15, none of which are large, well-known companies. > > > > Why? Demon told me it was the cost of the Application Server versus > demand. > > There response was "develop in ASP". > > > > If this pricing policy works its way through, hosting companies in the UK > > are going to be *less* likely to purchase CFAS, not more. > > > > And of the ones that have, all of them have a "price per domain" pricing > > structure. I was hoping to see "reseller" ColdFusion hosting options > appear > > in the UK where you can host multiple domains for a fixed price per month > > (as a developer, that's ideal - we stand to generate monthly revenue the > > more we develop in ColdFusion), but I can't see that happening if this > > announcement comes into effect. > > > > So, end result, less ColdFusion hosting on offer, hosting prices don't > come > > down, people reluctant to go down the ColdFusion route as it seems > > increasingly "marginialised", proprietary and costly to host. ColdFusion > > isn't particularly mainstream in the UK as it is. Why
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
And we'll all continue to develop in CFS 4.5... -Original Message- From: Tracy Bost [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 27 April 2001 13:25 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License MacroMedia/Allaire should know that a Server Side Application Server like Cold Fusion can't be compared to servers such as mail servers,webserver, etc.and push the big licensing fees. One big difference is those servers can be purschased & installed out of the box and do its thing with the existing software. Cold Fusion requires applications(thus developers). What good is a server if the applications aren't there to run on it? Developers developing Cold Fusion apps is what makes the demand for a ColdFusion Server. That does Macromedia little good if we are developing in PHP,ASP etc. They are either missing the whole boat here or they have another agenda on down the road for their plans of ColdFusion. Unfortunately, its probably the latter. I agree with the reply yesterday( i don't remember who posted it), but they should make ColdFusion Server free and then charge us the high end prices for the RAD environments and the rich tools that they can provide to develop applications. - Original Message - From: "James Maltby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 7:00 AM Subject: RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > Well, personally I get a feeling that this is the first nail in the coffin > of CF Application Server - see the logic - increase the price to push it up > to be in the same league as Broadvision and Vignette - drop spectra as the > webtop never worked - over price the "back end" middle ware and wait and see > if large companies buy it - in the meantime develop jrun to act as CF > Application Server - if CF 5 at new price fails - drop it like spectra and > release jrun CF at slightly increased prices to old CF Enterprise - get us > all to use that instead - etc, etc, - I'm off to buy a PHP book. > > J > > -Original Message- > From: Adrian Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 27 April 2001 12:24 > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Aidan Whitehall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 11:27 AM > > > Yes - having been in the Internet industry in Britain ever since there was > one - > I founded one of the first fully national ISP's - I can certainly endorse > the > comments of Aidan. > > What few hosting companies that have been willing hitherto to support Cold > Fusion will surely do so no longer if the new pricing schema is at it would > appear to be. > > Service providers of all types are used to getting things for free - Linux, > Apache, Sendmail etc.., and premium charges for CF are hardly going to > encourage > service providers in general to consider actually paying for a server side > application. > > I have to say - this is extremely myopic of Macromedia (subject to seeing > the > full details) - it will push developers who may have been waivering to > ASP/PHP > etc., and other free middleware. > > I still firmly believe that the best strategy would be to make CF Server > free, > and focus on marketing development tools to a much wider audience as a > result. > > I think the Netscape browser is a good parallel - they had to make it free > and > open source to encourage people to use the portal. No one will pay for > browsers > anymore than they will for expensive middleware, when the alternatives are > free > and widely supported. > > Adrian Cooper. > > > > > > Do you know how many companies offer ColdFusion hosting in the UK? I know > of > > about 10-15, none of which are large, well-known companies. > > > > Why? Demon told me it was the cost of the Application Server versus > demand. > > There response was "develop in ASP". > > > > If this pricing policy works its way through, hosting companies in the UK > > are going to be *less* likely to purchase CFAS, not more. > > > > And of the ones that have, all of them have a "price per domain" pricing > > structure. I was hoping to see "reseller" ColdFusion hosting options > appear > > in the UK where you can host multiple domains for a fixed price per month > > (as a developer, that's ideal - we stand to generate monthly revenue the > > more we develop in ColdFusion), but I can't see that happening if this > > announcement comes into effect. > > > > So, end result, less ColdFusion hosting on offer, hosting prices don't > come > > down, pe
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
I think I'm a partner, but I didn't get it. I believe it was sent to the hosting partners only. > Was this announcement sent to *all* A/MM Partners? I didn't see it. Can > someone who received it shoot me a copy, please? > > Thanks. > > Chris Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Web Development & Consulting http://www.astutia.com > Allaire Sales & Consulting Partner > 210-490-3249/888-745-7603Fax 210-490-4692 > Instant Messaging: > AIM: astutiaweb; ICQ: 7381282; MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -Original Message- > > From: Chris Colón [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 2:58 PM > > > > I agree. The announcement came from [EMAIL PROTECTED], > > which is where I sent some feedback of my own... > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
If the UK or other non-US ISPs talked to A/MM, maybe individual deals could be made. If I was at A/MM I'd talk to ISPs on a per company basis and for some wave the fee for a time to 'help get them on their feet'. ISP building is great in the long run but may cost a little in licensing in the short. But that's just me. > Do you know how many companies offer ColdFusion hosting in the UK? I know of > about 10-15, none of which are large, well-known companies. > > Why? Demon told me it was the cost of the Application Server versus demand. > There response was "develop in ASP". > > If this pricing policy works its way through, hosting companies in the UK > are going to be *less* likely to purchase CFAS, not more. > > And of the ones that have, all of them have a "price per domain" pricing > structure. I was hoping to see "reseller" ColdFusion hosting options appear > in the UK where you can host multiple domains for a fixed price per month > (as a developer, that's ideal - we stand to generate monthly revenue the > more we develop in ColdFusion), but I can't see that happening if this > announcement comes into effect. > > So, end result, less ColdFusion hosting on offer, hosting prices don't come > down, people reluctant to go down the ColdFusion route as it seems > increasingly "marginialised", proprietary and costly to host. ColdFusion > isn't particularly mainstream in the UK as it is. Why do something that runs > the risk of making it even less-so? > > This announcement stands to hit hosting companies in the short term and > developers (who have to source hosting solutions for the applications they > develop) in the longer term. > > If the price squeeze is enough, ColdFusion Server sales in the UK will > suffer, the effects of which will cascade down to the point at which > developers learn other languages and suggest they develop applications in > those instead. > > > Methinks Allaire/Macromedia might be trying to recoup their losses on > Spectra... > > > -- > Aidan Whitehall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Netshopperuk > Telephone +44 (01744) 648650 > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
One of the main strengths of CF has always been its developer community. MANY, MANY improvements came from them. I wonder how MM quantifies "Developer Community" and "Developer Community Good Will" in its cost/benefit analysis whose goal is to maximize profits. best, paul At 05:15 PM 4/26/01 -0700, you wrote: >i agree with your latter sentiments. we've been developing more and more >non-CF (jsp, php, asp) applications for a variety of reasons. and now i'm >very, very glad. i also agree this doesn't appear to be headed in a positive >direction, but i suppose we need to wait and see what MM comes up with. like >you, i hope they consider this very carefully. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
The first thing that sprang to mind when I read this was... Macromedia don't even have a partner program of any sort. At least not available here in Australia. So that could indicate that there isn't much of a 'Developer Community' within Macromedia! >One of the main strengths of CF has always been its developer community. > >MANY, MANY improvements came from them. I wonder how MM quantifies >"Developer Community" and "Developer Community Good Will" in its >cost/benefit analysis whose goal is to maximize profits. > >best, paul > >At 05:15 PM 4/26/01 -0700, you wrote: >>i agree with your latter sentiments. we've been developing more and more >>non-CF (jsp, php, asp) applications for a variety of reasons. and now i'm >>very, very glad. i also agree this doesn't appear to be headed in a positive >>direction, but i suppose we need to wait and see what MM comes up with. like >>you, i hope they consider this very carefully. > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
At 09:48 AM 4/27/01, you wrote: Michael, >If the UK or other non-US ISPs talked to A/MM, maybe individual deals could >be made. If I was at A/MM I'd talk to ISPs on a per company basis and for >some wave the fee for a time to 'help get them on their feet'. ISP building >is great in the long run but may cost a little in licensing in the short. >But that's just me. While this may serve to put some balm on the current wound, it indicates a mindset that, if it comes to pass, will amount to a significant dropoff in the vitality of this community. Waiving the fee for a time is not the issue, it's dealing with the competitive pressures. When crossing paths with micro$oft, one misstep is all it takes... Netscape made that misstep, and never recovered. I'm afraid that if a/MM takes licensing in this direction, they will not recover from that. I know that we will switch to another platform (probably asp) if, in fact this is where the licensing is headed. We've looked forward to the features in CF5 for awhile now, but it is just not going to be a viable alternative if a/MM goes down this road. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
MM could be positioning CF upmarket, abandoning the low-end web apps to PHP, open source platforms, and ASP, and targetting primarily, exclusively the corps, not the hosting services, knowing MM can´t run a business competing with free open source software, and the equally free MS security blanket. I remember Jeremy, I think, saying if you can´t get your tools adopted by the corps, strategically, you´re dead. He didn´t say anything about CF hosting shops. Len http://MenAndMice.com/DNS-training : Austin,TX: SFO,CA; 7,8 May http://BIND8NT.MEIway.com : ISC BIND 8.2.3 "NT3" for NT4 & W2K http://IMGate.MEIway.com : Build free, hi-perf, anti-abuse mail gateways ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
I really can't see A/MM abandoning us. Think about it, every author (with the exception of a few that they have in house) are in the low end. Every person who runs a community site is in the low end. With very few exceptions, every person who made CF what it is today is in the low end. They HAVE to know that abandoning us (and yes, I'm definitely in the low end as well) will only result in the death of CF. There's no chance in hell they're going to do that. Even if they're positioning CF for the upmarket they'll have to take care of us. Either that or just drop CF. > MM could be positioning CF upmarket, abandoning the low-end web apps to > PHP, open source platforms, and ASP, and targetting primarily, exclusively > the corps, not the hosting services, knowing MM can´t run a business > competing with free open source software, and the equally free MS security > blanket. > > I remember Jeremy, I think, saying if you can´t get your tools adopted by > the corps, strategically, you´re dead. He didn´t say anything about CF > hosting shops. > > Len > > > http://MenAndMice.com/DNS-training : Austin,TX: SFO,CA; 7,8 May > http://BIND8NT.MEIway.com : ISC BIND 8.2.3 "NT3" for NT4 & W2K > http://IMGate.MEIway.com : Build free, hi-perf, anti-abuse mail gateways > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
> MM could be positioning CF upmarket, abandoning the low-end > web apps to > PHP, open source platforms, and ASP, and targetting > primarily, exclusively > the corps, not the hosting services, knowing MM can´t run a business > competing with free open source software, and the equally > free MS security > blanket. And where would that leave smaller developers? Out in the cold or suddenly finding themselves having to learn PHP? ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
I don't think I can agree with that statement. Everything we've heard from A/MM so far points the opposite. MM has made it's mark with lower end applications. Even UltraDev is only a $500+ product. Supposedly, they dropped Spectra because it was too high of a dollar tag for their focus. I think we just need to see the details before we all jump to conclusions. Everything we've seen says that MM has a true commitment to CF. Dave - Original Message - From: "Len Conrad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 7:27 AM Subject: RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License MM could be positioning CF upmarket, abandoning the low-end web apps to PHP, open source platforms, and ASP, and targetting primarily, exclusively the corps, not the hosting services, knowing MM can´t run a business competing with free open source software, and the equally free MS security blanket. I remember Jeremy, I think, saying if you can´t get your tools adopted by the corps, strategically, you´re dead. He didn´t say anything about CF hosting shops. Len ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
At 07:27 AM 4/27/01, you wrote: Len, I certainly can't fault them on principle if this is their approach.. Whether or not this is a valid revenue model remains to be seen. From my perspective (which is different than most ), each developer needs to decide whether this fits THEIR business model.. I'm afraid without a critical mass of lower end stuff, there will be no energy base upon which to have and develop a brand name and a viable community. and it certainly doesn't fit OUR business model. I'm about as anti-m$ as you can get, but i'm ready to jump ship to asp if this comes to pass. I used to use webboard many years ago, but switched to IIS when our business model and approach dictated it. >MM could be positioning CF upmarket, abandoning the low-end web apps to >PHP, open source platforms, and ASP, and targetting primarily, exclusively >the corps, not the hosting services, knowing MM can´t run a business >competing with free open source software, and the equally free MS security >blanket. > >I remember Jeremy, I think, saying if you can´t get your tools adopted by >the corps, strategically, you´re dead. He didn´t say anything about CF >hosting shops. > >Len > > >http://MenAndMice.com/DNS-training : Austin,TX: SFO,CA; 7,8 May >http://BIND8NT.MEIway.com : ISC BIND 8.2.3 "NT3" for NT4 & W2K >http://IMGate.MEIway.com : Build free, hi-perf, anti-abuse mail gateways > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
Don't panic yet. I believe a FAQ is in the works that will explain all this. Stay tuned. --- Ben Forta -Original Message- From: Zac [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 1:08 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > MM could be positioning CF upmarket, abandoning the low-end > web apps to > PHP, open source platforms, and ASP, and targetting > primarily, exclusively > the corps, not the hosting services, knowing MM can?t run a business > competing with free open source software, and the equally > free MS security > blanket. And where would that leave smaller developers? Out in the cold or suddenly finding themselves having to learn PHP? ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
Let me preface this by saying that it isn't meant as a comment about Macromedia but is a general comment > They HAVE to know that abandoning us (and yes, I'm definitely > in the low end > as well) will only result in the death of CF. Publicly held software companies are beholden to their shareholders and the bottom line. If the management of the company thinks that they can make more money in a process that eliminates 90% of their small scale developers they will do it. No question. If the idea is sound in the long term is another matter entirely. And I think you can look at the history of software development firms to see that foresight and long-term planning are not necessarily skills that the management of software companies have in excess. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
At 01:35 PM 4/27/01, you wrote: Yet ??? >Don't panic yet. I believe a FAQ is in the works that will explain all this. that's good news... ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
>And where would that leave smaller developers? If the "smaller" developers aren´t worth their cost of sales, then, yes ... >Out in the cold and you don´t make significant money selling CF software, but from your CF apps and support contract revenue, none of which goes back to MM. Of course, "the other shoe" will drop, which will be software renting, time-limited product activation codes, since that´s where MS is officially going, sooner rather than later. Let´s not get emotional about it, it´s the brutal face of business. Remember, as long as one can do it in the name of (moral) religion or (amoral) business, you can do anything. :)) Len http://MenAndMice.com/DNS-training : Austin,TX: SFO,CA; 7,8 May http://BIND8NT.MEIway.com : ISC BIND 8.2.3 "NT3" for NT4 & W2K http://IMGate.MEIway.com : Build free, hi-perf, anti-abuse mail gateways ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
Do let us know when the FAQ is ready so we can begin panicking. ;-) In the mean time, that's for helping calm our fears. -- Hans Omli -Original Message- From: Ben Forta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 10:35 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License Don't panic yet. I believe a FAQ is in the works that will explain all this. Stay tuned. --- Ben Forta -Original Message- From: Zac [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 1:08 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > MM could be positioning CF upmarket, abandoning the low-end > web apps to > PHP, open source platforms, and ASP, and targetting > primarily, exclusively > the corps, not the hosting services, knowing MM can?t run a business > competing with free open source software, and the equally > free MS security > blanket. And where would that leave smaller developers? Out in the cold or suddenly finding themselves having to learn PHP? ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
- Original Message - From: "Angél Stewart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 12:16 PM > Correct..especially for Off Shore development such as what I do here in > Trinidad. > > Our net connections can't support an INternational Website, so we HAVE to > host on shared servers abroad like Hostpro.net or CFHOSTING etc. Same here in the Isle of Man - we it's all about the offshore industry and offshore hosting, and everyone except us is developing in ASP. I suspect that there must be alot of marginal situations like here, where it won't take much to go to ASP which is universally supported at no incremental cost. Adrian Cooper. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
- Original Message - From: "Ben Forta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 6:35 PM > Don't panic yet. I believe a FAQ is in the works that will explain all this. > Stay tuned. Well I hope they publish it quickly. I hear that Amazon are suddenly doing a roaring trade in teach yourself ASP and PHP books :-) Adrian Cooper. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
I agree, they also recently changed the price for Generator making it quite affordable and now available for multiple domains as well... I would wait to see every details of the new price policy before making any comment. Macromedia's move on Generator actually goes on the opposite direction, since they failed to target the high end market, they are going back to their traditional low end customers PS I am learning PHP anyway, who know :-) Massimo Foti [EMAIL PROTECTED] My own Corner of the web http://www.massimocorner.com Dreamweaver, Ultradev and Fireworks goodies It should be this hole in the ozone layer But I am not the coder I use to be... "Dave Hannum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message 00de01c0cf3c$650074d0$bd08eb84@jasper">news:00de01c0cf3c$650074d0$bd08eb84@jasper... > I don't think I can agree with that statement. Everything we've heard from > A/MM so far points the opposite. MM has made it's mark with lower end > applications. Even UltraDev is only a $500+ product. Supposedly, they > dropped Spectra because it was too high of a dollar tag for their focus. I > think we just need to see the details before we all jump to conclusions. > Everything we've seen says that MM has a true commitment to CF. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
As I hit SEND I wondered how long it would be until someone responded with that. -Original Message- From: Hans Omli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 2:18 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License Do let us know when the FAQ is ready so we can begin panicking. ;-) In the mean time, that's for helping calm our fears. -- Hans Omli -Original Message- From: Ben Forta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 10:35 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License Don't panic yet. I believe a FAQ is in the works that will explain all this. Stay tuned. --- Ben Forta -Original Message- From: Zac [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 1:08 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > MM could be positioning CF upmarket, abandoning the low-end > web apps to > PHP, open source platforms, and ASP, and targetting > primarily, exclusively > the corps, not the hosting services, knowing MM can?t run a business > competing with free open source software, and the equally > free MS security > blanket. And where would that leave smaller developers? Out in the cold or suddenly finding themselves having to learn PHP? ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
unless you go out of business or lose your religion. -Original Message- From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 8:11 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License >And where would that leave smaller developers? If the "smaller" developers aren´t worth their cost of sales, then, yes ... >Out in the cold . and you don´t make significant money selling CF software, but from your CF apps and support contract revenue, none of which goes back to MM. Of course, "the other shoe" will drop, which will be software renting, time-limited product activation codes, since that´s where MS is officially going, sooner rather than later. Let´s not get emotional about it, it´s the brutal face of business. Remember, as long as one can do it in the name of (moral) religion or (amoral) business, you can do anything. :)) Len http://MenAndMice.com/DNS-training : Austin,TX: SFO,CA; 7,8 May http://BIND8NT.MEIway.com : ISC BIND 8.2.3 "NT3" for NT4 & W2K http://IMGate.MEIway.com : Build free, hi-perf, anti-abuse mail gateways ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
Len Conrad wrote: >> And where would that leave smaller developers? > If the "smaller" developers aren´t worth their cost of sales, then, yes As has been mentioned before, I don't think that most companies factor in the value of small developers into their cost benefit analysis >> Out in the cold > and you don´t make significant money selling CF software, but from your > CF apps and support contract revenue, none of which goes back to MM. Or does it? No-one has, to my knowledge, spent any time examining the issue of how much a company makes (long term) from the support they give to small developers. Macromedia might not make a lot from direct sales but I think that the long-term profitability of the company has to be built on small developers. > Let´s not get emotional about it, it´s the brutal face of > business. Well that¹s certainly a logical approach but you really can't expect people to be anything other than emotional when there is a perceived direct threat to their ability to make a living. Or to the investment they have made in CF. I've just finished spending 3 months writing a CMS framework. I certainly don't want to see that effort go down the drain. -- Consistency is the refuge of the unimaginative Oscar Wilde email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.pixelgeek.com/ ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
is there any book called "PHP by April30th"?? ;) just wondering...does PHP run on windows?? coz if it comes to that i dont want to go for ASP. i was planning to do something like CFhosting, sortabut dang!!! my other friend was right... -Original Message- From: Zac [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 1:42 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License Let me preface this by saying that it isn't meant as a comment about Macromedia but is a general comment > They HAVE to know that abandoning us (and yes, I'm definitely > in the low end > as well) will only result in the death of CF. Publicly held software companies are beholden to their shareholders and the bottom line. If the management of the company thinks that they can make more money in a process that eliminates 90% of their small scale developers they will do it. No question. If the idea is sound in the long term is another matter entirely. And I think you can look at the history of software development firms to see that foresight and long-term planning are not necessarily skills that the management of software companies have in excess. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
Unfortunately, I will be moving most of my apps to ASP & PHP. These are free and easy to setup. I love CF, except for the cost. -- Original Message -- From: "Adrian Cooper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 19:30:44 +0100 - Original Message - From: "Angél Stewart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 12:16 PM > Correct..especially for Off Shore development such as what I do here in > Trinidad. > > Our net connections can't support an INternational Website, so we HAVE to > host on shared servers abroad like Hostpro.net or CFHOSTING etc. Same here in the Isle of Man - we it's all about the offshore industry and offshore hosting, and everyone except us is developing in ASP. I suspect that there must be alot of marginal situations like here, where it won't take much to go to ASP which is universally supported at no incremental cost. Adrian Cooper. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
> Don't panic yet. I believe a FAQ is in the works that will explain all this. > Stay tuned. Ahh, but will the FAQ arrive before we all spend the weekend planning our alternatives? :) ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
Anyone interested in writing a new SAMS book: Teach your coldfusion developers PHP in 5 hours? Sorry, I couldn't resist the urge. John -Original Message- From: Adrian Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 1:31 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License - Original Message - From: "Angél Stewart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 12:16 PM > Correct..especially for Off Shore development such as what I do here in > Trinidad. > > Our net connections can't support an INternational Website, so we HAVE to > host on shared servers abroad like Hostpro.net or CFHOSTING etc. Same here in the Isle of Man - we it's all about the offshore industry and offshore hosting, and everyone except us is developing in ASP. I suspect that there must be alot of marginal situations like here, where it won't take much to go to ASP which is universally supported at no incremental cost. Adrian Cooper. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
I'm sorry I don't have full word on this story... I'm mostly a clientside guy trying to learn more about the field. From what I read it sounds like there will be an announcement on Monday, and certain partners who host others got a bit of advance word this week. I'd echo Michael and Ben, about waiting for full details to arrive next week. Sorry I can't contribute anything more meaningful than that right now, but I do know there's a general desire to communicate privately with individuals affected before making public announcements... sounds like this may be what's happening here too. At 1:57 PM 4/26/1, Paul Sizemore wrote: > You have to remember, MM wants to make money, not necessarily > provide a better development environment for us. One sustainable way of achieving the former is by first achieving the latter ;-) jd John Dowdell, Macromedia Tech Support, San Francisco CA US Search technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ Offlist email risks capture by the spam filters. I may not see your email if it's not on the list. Private one-on-one email options are available via Priority Access: http://www.macromedia.com/support/ ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
"Macromedia might not make a lot from direct sales but I think that the long-term profitability of the company has to be built on small developers." I agree, if you look at it, who champions CF more loudly than the smaller developers? And smaller firms. The large firms have developers in several areas so cutting back CF probably wouldn't have a dramatic impact. >From what I can tell, hopefully this doesn't offend anyone, but we're all representing smaller organizations. Except maybe the guys from figleaf, and a few others, that have name recognition for me. The rest of us, as discussed a few days ago on community, are freelancers or members of very small firms. I think MM would be greatly impacted if a significant enough percentage of us had to stop representing CF. J. John Wilker Web Applications Consultant Allaire Certified ColdFusion Developer www.red-omega.com <http://www.red-omega.com> Lessons learned from movies: 5. It does not matter if you are heavily outnumbered in a fight involving martial arts, your enemies will wait patiently to attack you one by one by dancing around in a threatening manner until you have knocked out their predecessors. -Original Message- From: Zac [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 12:03 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License Len Conrad wrote: >> And where would that leave smaller developers? > If the "smaller" developers aren´t worth their cost of sales, then, yes . As has been mentioned before, I don't think that most companies factor in the value of small developers into their cost benefit analysis >> Out in the cold > and you don´t make significant money selling CF software, but from your > CF apps and support contract revenue, none of which goes back to MM. Or does it? No-one has, to my knowledge, spent any time examining the issue of how much a company makes (long term) from the support they give to small developers. Macromedia might not make a lot from direct sales but I think that the long-term profitability of the company has to be built on small developers. > Let´s not get emotional about it, it´s the brutal face of > business. Well that¹s certainly a logical approach but you really can't expect people to be anything other than emotional when there is a perceived direct threat to their ability to make a living. Or to the investment they have made in CF. I've just finished spending 3 months writing a CMS framework. I certainly don't want to see that effort go down the drain. -- Consistency is the refuge of the unimaginative Oscar Wilde email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.pixelgeek.com/ ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
> While I could be wrong on this, I don't think I am. Relax. We'll see how it > goes, but jumping to conclusions and thinking that we have to do the > unimaginable (going to asp or perl) is not needed. ColdFusion will be here > for us and I think that A/MM will see us for what we are, an asset to > ColdFusion. We've just got to relax. I believe this to be incorrect. I think that by expressing our opinions to this list where we *know* that A/MM is watching, we may be able to influence the decision before it becomes set in stone. By waiting until we hear there final decision we leave ourselves an uphill battle to change what we feel should be changed. I mean what if we did what our governments are doing and waited until the sky turned black before we accepted the idea that CO2 and other greenhouse gases where possibly dangerous. I say that if we think there is any possibility that this is what is going to happen then we should definitely speak up, so that our voices (text) may be heard (read)!!! That said... I believe that the statement above express my idea that a lot of little people can have a large influence over something bigger than themselves, and I think that is exactly what A/MM is going to find out when (assuming rumored pricing) no one upgrades to CF5. I've been watching the list and would love to get my hands on the new features of CF5, but if it means that I have to shell out what little profits I can squeeze out, then I feel that I will be sticking with 4.5 until I find the time to learn ASP. Don Kiggins ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
> From: Akbar Pasha [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 2:15 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > > > is there any book called "PHP by April30th"?? ;) Ha! > just wondering...does > PHP run on windows?? coz if it comes to that i dont want to go for ASP. ASP isn't that bad (no gasping please), although I like PHP and/or CF much better. But yes PHP does run on windows. http://www.google.com/search?q=PHP+windows+download Not only that, it's possible to have CF, ASP, and PHP (along with a few others) all running at once on the same server. - Bruce P.S. - I also think that all this speculation is *very* premature. I wouldn't be too quick to dump CF. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
PHP will run on Windows. Go to www.php.net to get it. -- Original Message -- From: "Akbar Pasha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 15:14:33 -0400 is there any book called "PHP by April30th"?? ;) just wondering...does PHP run on windows?? coz if it comes to that i dont want to go for ASP. i was planning to do something like CFhosting, sortabut dang!!! my other friend was right... -Original Message- From: Zac [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 1:42 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License Let me preface this by saying that it isn't meant as a comment about Macromedia but is a general comment > They HAVE to know that abandoning us (and yes, I'm definitely > in the low end > as well) will only result in the death of CF. Publicly held software companies are beholden to their shareholders and the bottom line. If the management of the company thinks that they can make more money in a process that eliminates 90% of their small scale developers they will do it. No question. If the idea is sound in the long term is another matter entirely. And I think you can look at the history of software development firms to see that foresight and long-term planning are not necessarily skills that the management of software companies have in excess. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
'is there any book called "PHP by April30th"??' - lol A couple folks have asked for it, so here's the text of the announcement that hosting partners received yesterday (apologies if my Netscape Communicator email program parses the line feeds weirdly): - Dear Partner, On April 30, 2001, Macromedia will be announcing the launch of ColdFusion Server 5 and the ColdFusion Server 5 Hosting Service Provider Edition, which consists of a new End-User License for commercial hosting service providers. We are excited to provide you with advanced notice of our announcement of the launch of a new Hosting Edition for ColdFusion 5.0 that offers Web Hosting partners improved functionality as well as new licensing terms. Improved Functionality ColdFusion Server 5 has new functionality that will help hosters improve the management and enhance the performance of hosted ColdFusion servers. It also provides existing ColdFusion users with numerous new features that should drive more business for ColdFusion hosters. The following is brief description of some of those features: * SNMP MIB (Management Information Base)- Provides performance and availability data so that ColdFusion servers can be monitored from within an enterprise systems management console. * Custom Logs - Provides administrators with the ability to customize log reports for individual applications on a shared hosted ColdFusion server. * Enhanced Hardware Load Balancer Integration - Provides the capability to run a server agent that is capable of passing CF application server load and application health information to any of the popular hardware load balancing devices, providing a higher level of site availability and better overall load balancing. * Application Monitoring- Enables server administrators to configure custom monitors that respond to page or application-specific thresholds. When a threshold is passed, the server can send an automatic notification, trigger an automated response, or send a notification to an enterprise management console via SNMP * Application Deployment Services- Provides site archiving features that enable easy back-up and deployment of applications and/or ColdFusion Server configuration data. This simplifies server(s) management by enabling the easy movement of applications between servers, such as from testing to production or from one production server to another in a data center. * Merant ODBC Drivers- ColdFusion 5.0 now includes the Merant ODBC 3.7 drivers on all platforms, including new wire protocol drivers which provide a consistently high-performance interface to all popular data sources. New Licensing Terms The new ColdFusion Server 5 Hosting Service Provider Edition is for web hosting service providers that provide shared hosting services (host multiple ColdFusion applications and/or sites on a single ColdFusion server) for the ColdFusion platform. Starting with the release of ColdFusion 5, the End-User License right to host multiple ColdFusion applications and/or sites on a single ColdFusion server will only be included in the ColdFusion 5 Hosting Service Provider Edition license. The ColdFusion 5 Enterprise and Pro End-User License will no longer permit multiple ColdFusion applications and/or sites to be hosted on a single ColdFusion server. Web hosters that are purchasing ColdFusion 5 servers to host multiple ColdFusion applications and/or sites on a single ColdFusion 5 server will need to purchase the ColdFusion 5 Hosting Service Provider Edition. Web hosters that provide dedicated ColdFusion hosting services (host one ColdFusion application and/or site on a single ColdFusion server), will be able to continue to host ColdFusion customers on either a ColdFusion Enterprise or Pro server license. The ColdFusion 5 Hosting Service Provider Edition: * Will be priced on a per CPU basis * Can be purchased directly from Macromedia on a per CPU basis, or through Macromedia's Commercial Service Providers (CSP) License Program that provides payment terms that map to a Hosting Service Providers business model. * Will also be offered through Macromedia's reseller and distributor channels. In an effort to help our Hosting Partners take advantage of the upcoming demand for ColdFusion 5 features, Macromedia will be providing a special promotional upgrade offer. More information regarding ColdFusion 5 Hosting Edition upgrade promotion, pricing and availability will be released on April 30, 2001. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
"Cheer up, things could be worse. So I cheered up, and sure enough things got worse". -Original Message- From: Ken Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 12:26 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > Don't panic yet. I believe a FAQ is in the works that will explain all this. > Stay tuned. Ahh, but will the FAQ arrive before we all spend the weekend planning our alternatives? :) ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
this topic brings up another, related topic. you can never go wrong learning more than one development language. i really like CF, but being able to create applications in ASP or JSP (we're learning PHP in-house now) has been of great benefit. when clients ask for an app and they're indifferent to the language, we use CF more often than not. but when they ask for ASP or JSP, we can do it. you'll only increase your value and experience by learning more than one language. don't get me wrong; i'm not saying it's necessary, but of all the developers i know, the most successful ones (not just financially) are adept in multiple languages. -Original Message- From: Ken Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 12:26 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > Don't panic yet. I believe a FAQ is in the works that will explain all this. > Stay tuned. Ahh, but will the FAQ arrive before we all spend the weekend planning our alternatives? :) ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
Probably not until the 30th, or it wouldn't answer the most important question...price. That's Monday for you Yahoo's. jon - Original Message - From: "Ken Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 3:25 PM Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > > Don't panic yet. I believe a FAQ is in the works that will explain all > this. > > Stay tuned. > > > > Ahh, but will the FAQ arrive before we all spend the weekend planning our > alternatives? :) > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
Yes, there is a PHP version for Windows. Regards, Howie Hamlin - inFusion Project Manager On-Line Data Solutions, Inc. www.CoolFusion.com 631-737-4668 x101 inFusion Mail Server (iMS) - The Intelligent Mail Server - Original Message - From: "Akbar Pasha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 3:14 PM Subject: RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > is there any book called "PHP by April30th"?? ;) just wondering...does > PHP run on windows?? coz if it comes to that i dont want to go for ASP. > i was planning to do something like CFhosting, sortabut dang!!! my > other friend was right... > > -Original Message- > From: Zac [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 1:42 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > > > Let me preface this by saying that it isn't meant as a comment about > Macromedia but is a general comment > > > They HAVE to know that abandoning us (and yes, I'm definitely > > in the low end > > as well) will only result in the death of CF. > > Publicly held software companies are beholden to their shareholders and > the > bottom line. If the management of the company thinks that they can make > more > money in a process that eliminates 90% of their small scale developers > they > will do it. No question. > > If the idea is sound in the long term is another matter entirely. And I > think you can look at the history of software development firms to see > that > foresight and long-term planning are not necessarily skills that the > management of software companies have in excess. > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
dBase and Sybase both thought they could increase their revenue by increasing their price and look where it got them. You can only increase your price when you don't have competition or you own significant market share. For example, has anyone tried to buy a copy of MS Word 2000 for $99 or $69 with a competitive upgrade. Not recently. When MS had competition, you could by Word dirt cheap. Now, no competition and Word is bundled with a bunch of other stuff you may not want and even upgrades can cost your $250 or more. SQL Server license with unlimited connections could be had for less than $1,000 5 years ago. Today, you can expect to pay $10,000 to $20,000 for a similar license. What changed, almost no competition in the NT-based SQL market. You could buy NT server for less than $500. Today, it can be $5,000. What changed, Novell is no longer a threat. Now these are all Microsoft examples but ask yourself, who is generally Allaire's competitor in this space. Is it IBM? How about OpenSource PHP? Perhaps OracleDev? So who has failed or is really struggling. Sybase, Ingres, cc:Mail, Banyan Vines, Wang Imaging and many more all tried substantial increase in licensing pricing when they ran into hard times. And look what happened. Who else is struggling? Well Allaire for one. Macromedia's performance hasn't been that stellar recently. Sure management can think that increasing price will increase revenue, but history of the software business will show that no company that has ever tried a significant price increase ultimately succeeded. The folks at Allaire and MM are very smart. But for them to believe that a price increase strategy is a good thing is for them to be so arrogant as to assume that all those other companies were run by stupid people. They weren't. In fact some of those same folks now work at Allaire/Macromedia. Cheers! - Steve -Original Message- From: Zac [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 1:42 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License Let me preface this by saying that it isn't meant as a comment about Macromedia but is a general comment > They HAVE to know that abandoning us (and yes, I'm definitely > in the low end > as well) will only result in the death of CF. Publicly held software companies are beholden to their shareholders and the bottom line. If the management of the company thinks that they can make more money in a process that eliminates 90% of their small scale developers they will do it. No question. If the idea is sound in the long term is another matter entirely. And I think you can look at the history of software development firms to see that foresight and long-term planning are not necessarily skills that the management of software companies have in excess. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
I just had a couple of thoughts to throw around here. Ok, one. ;p While it's probably premature to be talking about these things when we don't even have the real info yet, It's aways good to be prepared... Before CF was available on Linux, there were at least two efforts to create an open source CF parser. What happened to those? Who's to say that some of couldn't put some effort into a project like that? Tony Schreiber, Senior Partner Man and Machine, Limited mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.technocraft.com http://www.simplemessageboard.com ___Free Forum Software for Cold Fusion http://www.is300.net ___The Enthusiast's Home of the Lexus IS300 http://www.digitacamera.com __DigitA Camera Scripts and Tips http://www.linklabexchange.com _Miata Link ECU Data Exchange ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
And as I hit SEND I wondered if you'd realize I meant to say "thanks", not "that's"... which makes a very big difference in this case. :-) > -Original Message- > From: Ben Forta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 11:54 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > > As I hit SEND I wondered how long it would be until someone responded with > that. > > > -Original Message- > From: Hans Omli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 2:18 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > > Do let us know when the FAQ is ready so we can begin panicking. ;-) In the > mean time, that's for helping calm our fears. > > -- Hans Omli > > >-Original Message- > From: Ben Forta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 10:35 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > > Don't panic yet. I believe a FAQ is in the works that will explain all > this. Stay tuned. > > --- Ben Forta ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
> Ahh, but will the FAQ arrive before we all spend the weekend planning > our alternatives? :) I remember the CF community not being too excited about Allaire raising the price of CF a couple times in the past several years. But we're all still here developing with CF. And Allaire has even given us a "free" feature-limited version of CF since (ok, maybe it's of very little use to most of us, but...) Any decent CF developer is smarter than to drop CF based on the very limited information we currently have. Maybe we will all decide to move over to PHP, ASP, JSP, Perl, or whatever else after next week's announcement... but I highly doubt it. I'm betting the change isn't as drastic as we're making it out to be though. I'm going to spend my weekend reading through BF's Certified CF Developer Study Guide. Anyone want to share any other tips, hints, or relevant info on passing the exam? Hans Omli ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
One of these days someone will come up with a CF -> ASP.NET or CF-> PHP code converter, which simply converts CF templates to the new target code. That is the day when MM will need to worry! p.s. - there isn't such a thing is there? Adrian Cooper. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
If that is true, then maybe MM will take this advice... Ask Ben Forta before you do anything! ;-) jon - Original Message - From: "Don Kiggins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 4:26 PM Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > > While I could be wrong on this, I don't think I am. Relax. We'll see > how it > > goes, but jumping to conclusions and thinking that we have to do the > > unimaginable (going to asp or perl) is not needed. ColdFusion will > be here > > for us and I think that A/MM will see us for what we are, an asset > to > > ColdFusion. We've just got to relax. > > I believe this to be incorrect. I think that by expressing our > opinions to this list where we *know* that A/MM is watching, we may be > able to influence the decision before it becomes set in stone. By > waiting until we hear there final decision we leave ourselves an > uphill battle to change what we feel should be changed. I mean what > if we did what our governments are doing and waited until the sky > turned black before we accepted the idea that CO2 and other greenhouse > gases where possibly dangerous. I say that if we think there is any > possibility that this is what is going to happen then we should > definitely speak up, so that our voices (text) may be heard (read)!!! > > That said... I believe that the statement above express my idea that a > lot of little people can have a large influence over something bigger > than themselves, and I think that is exactly what A/MM is going to > find out when (assuming rumored pricing) no one upgrades to CF5. I've > been watching the list and would love to get my hands on the new > features of CF5, but if it means that I have to shell out what little > profits I can squeeze out, then I feel that I will be sticking with > 4.5 until I find the time to learn ASP. > > Don Kiggins > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
I am trying to find the "Zope by May 1" From: Chris Colón <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 13:51:38 -0700 'is there any book called "PHP by April30th"??' - lol A couple folks have asked for it, so here's the text of the announcement that hosting partners received yesterday (apologies if my Netscape Communicator email program parses the line feeds weirdly): - Dear Partner, On April 30, 2001, Macromedia will be announcing the launch of ColdFusion Server 5 and the ColdFusion Server 5 Hosting Service Provider Edition, which consists of a new End-User License for commercial hosting service providers. We are excited to provide you with advanced notice of our announcement of the launch of a new Hosting Edition for ColdFusion 5.0 that offers Web Hosting partners improved functionality as well as new licensing terms. Improved Functionality ColdFusion Server 5 has new functionality that will help hosters improve the management and enhance the performance of hosted ColdFusion servers. It also provides existing ColdFusion users with numerous new features that should drive more business for ColdFusion hosters. The following is brief description of some of those features: * SNMP MIB (Management Information Base)- Provides performance and availability data so that ColdFusion servers can be monitored from within an enterprise systems management console. * Custom Logs - Provides administrators with the ability to customize log reports for individual applications on a shared hosted ColdFusion server. * Enhanced Hardware Load Balancer Integration - Provides the capability to run a server agent that is capable of passing CF application server load and application health information to any of the popular hardware load balancing devices, providing a higher level of site availability and better overall load balancing. * Application Monitoring- Enables server administrators to configure custom monitors that respond to page or application-specific thresholds. When a threshold is passed, the server can send an automatic notification, trigger an automated response, or send a notification to an enterprise management console via SNMP * Application Deployment Services- Provides site archiving features that enable easy back-up and deployment of applications and/or ColdFusion Server configuration data. This simplifies server(s) management by enabling the easy movement of applications between servers, such as from testing to production or from one production server to another in a data center. * Merant ODBC Drivers- ColdFusion 5.0 now includes the Merant ODBC 3.7 drivers on all platforms, including new wire protocol drivers which provide a consistently high-performance interface to all popular data sources. New Licensing Terms The new ColdFusion Server 5 Hosting Service Provider Edition is for web hosting service providers that provide shared hosting services (host multiple ColdFusion applications and/or sites on a single ColdFusion server) for the ColdFusion platform. Starting with the release of ColdFusion 5, the End-User License right to host multiple ColdFusion applications and/or sites on a single ColdFusion server will only be included in the ColdFusion 5 Hosting Service Provider Edition license. The ColdFusion 5 Enterprise and Pro End-User License will no longer permit multiple ColdFusion applications and/or sites to be hosted on a single ColdFusion server. Web hosters that are purchasing ColdFusion 5 servers to host multiple ColdFusion applications and/or sites on a single ColdFusion 5 server will need to purchase the ColdFusion 5 Hosting Service Provider Edition. Web hosters that provide dedicated ColdFusion hosting services (host one ColdFusion application and/or site on a single ColdFusion server), will be able to continue to host ColdFusion customers on either a ColdFusion Enterprise or Pro server license. The ColdFusion 5 Hosting Service Provider Edition: * Will be priced on a per CPU basis * Can be purchased directly from Macromedia on a per CPU basis, or through Macromedia's Commercial Service Providers (CSP) License Program that provides payment terms that map to a Hosting Service Providers business model. * Will also be offered through Macromedia's reseller and distributor channels. In an effort to help our Hosting Partners take advantage of the upcoming demand for ColdFusion 5 features, Macromedia will be providing a special promotional upgrade offer. More information regarding ColdFusion 5 Hosting Edition upgrade promotion, pricing and availability will be released on April 30, 2001. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
On this same note, I am becoming more than a little concerned that MM sees Cold Fusion as nothing but a platform to help push Flash. If that's the case, I'm gone. Kevin >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/26/01 01:57PM >>> It sounds like MM is going to throw the CF community a bone and then stick us in the pound. They "kill" Spectra, restructure licensing, float our pallets, and make us develop with a Studio / UltraDev hybrid. All this comes from the boardroom, not a developer wish list. Former Drumbeat developers still don't have a comparable solution in UltraDev. You have to remember, MM wants to make money, not necessarily provide a better development environment for us. This can be achieved by bringing CF down to the point a general HTML developer can create a viable application. Paul -Original Message- From: Chris Colón [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 2:48 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License Heh. I agree, but I doubt that'll be the case. At the end of the announcement was this bit: "In an effort to help our Hosting Partners take advantage of the upcoming demand for ColdFusion 5 features, Macromedia will be providing a special promotional upgrade offer. More information regarding ColdFusion 5 Hosting Edition upgrade promotion, pricing and availability will be released on April 30, 2001." We probably wouldn't need a "special promotional upgrade offer" unless the cost is going up. Nevermind that the "upgrade" will probably consist of no new or extra features (unless you count complying with the new, more expensive license as a feature). Robert Long wrote: > Anyone seen a pricing structure for cf5? > > We're going to feel pretty ackward if they > actually lower the prices. ;-) If not, then I > agree with you. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
wow, I wonder how this will affect people who are using 4.52 Professional and got a 2 year subscription. I am hosting multiple sites on mine also. Your thoughts welcomed, Tom - Original Message - From: "Chris Colón" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 3:51 PM Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > 'is there any book called "PHP by April30th"??' - lol > > A couple folks have asked for it, so here's the text of the announcement that hosting partners received yesterday > (apologies if my Netscape Communicator email program parses the line feeds weirdly): > > - > > Dear Partner, > > On April 30, 2001, Macromedia will be announcing the launch of ColdFusion Server 5 and the ColdFusion Server 5 > Hosting Service Provider Edition, which consists of a new End-User License for commercial hosting service > providers. > > We are excited to provide you with advanced notice of our announcement of the launch of a new Hosting Edition for > ColdFusion 5.0 that offers Web Hosting partners improved functionality as well as new licensing terms. > > Improved Functionality > > ColdFusion Server 5 has new functionality that will help hosters improve the management and enhance the performance > of hosted ColdFusion servers. It also provides existing ColdFusion users with numerous new features that should > drive more business for ColdFusion hosters. The following is brief description of some of those features: > > * SNMP MIB (Management Information Base)- Provides performance and availability data so that ColdFusion > servers can be monitored from within an enterprise systems management console. > * Custom Logs - Provides administrators with the ability to customize log reports for individual applications > on a shared hosted ColdFusion server. > * Enhanced Hardware Load Balancer Integration - Provides the capability to run a server agent that is capable > of passing CF application server load and application health information to any of the popular hardware load > balancing devices, providing a higher level of site availability and better overall load balancing. > * Application Monitoring- Enables server administrators to configure custom monitors that respond to page or > application-specific thresholds. When a threshold is passed, the server can send an automatic notification, trigger > an automated response, or send a notification to an enterprise management console via SNMP > * Application Deployment Services- Provides site archiving features that enable easy back-up and deployment > of applications and/or ColdFusion Server configuration data. This simplifies server(s) management by enabling the > easy movement of applications between servers, such as from testing to production or from one production server to > another in a data center. > * Merant ODBC Drivers- ColdFusion 5.0 now includes the Merant ODBC 3.7 drivers on all platforms, including > new wire protocol drivers which provide a consistently high-performance interface to all popular data sources. > > New Licensing Terms > > The new ColdFusion Server 5 Hosting Service Provider Edition is for web hosting service providers that provide > shared hosting services (host multiple ColdFusion applications and/or sites on a single ColdFusion server) for the > ColdFusion platform. Starting with the release of ColdFusion 5, the End-User License right to host multiple > ColdFusion applications and/or sites on a single ColdFusion server will only be included in the ColdFusion 5 > Hosting Service Provider Edition license. The ColdFusion 5 Enterprise and Pro End-User License will no longer > permit multiple ColdFusion applications and/or sites to be hosted on a single ColdFusion server. Web hosters that > are purchasing ColdFusion 5 servers to host multiple ColdFusion applications and/or sites on a single ColdFusion 5 > server will need to purchase the ColdFusion 5 Hosting Service Provider Edition. > > Web hosters that provide dedicated ColdFusion hosting services (host one ColdFusion application and/or site on a > single ColdFusion server), will be able to continue to host ColdFusion customers on either a ColdFusion Enterprise > or Pro server license. > > The ColdFusion 5 Hosting Service Provider Edition: > * Will be priced on a per CPU basis > * Can be purchased directly from Macromedia on a per CPU basis, or through Macromedia's Commercial Service > Providers (CSP) License Program that provides payment terms that map to a Hosting Service Providers business model. > > * Will also be offered through Macromedia's reseller and distributor channels. > > In an effort to help our Hosting Partners take ad
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
A/MM just posted to the list a nice rundown on what's happening. Close enough for the weekend. > > Don't panic yet. I believe a FAQ is in the works that will explain all > this. > > Stay tuned. > > > > Ahh, but will the FAQ arrive before we all spend the weekend planning our > alternatives? :) > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
>dBase and Sybase neither could stand up to MS and Oracle >share. For example, has anyone tried to buy a copy of MS Word 2000 for $99 >or $69 with a competitive upgrade. Not recently. "competitive upgrade" from what? monopolists can charge whatever they want, and MS will bleed the market for every billion they can, and shrub will encourage them. >than $500. Today, it can be $5,000. What changed, Novell is no longer a >threat. Now these are all Microsoft examples but ask yourself, who is >generally Allaire's competitor in this space Win 2000 server and IIS are both strategic for MS, do you really think any other (commercial) players have a chance, over time, on that platform? The stock market doesn´t. if you can raise cash, you´re dead. >So who has failed or is really struggling. Sybase, MS´s version of sybase was always going to have more cred that sybase. >cc:Mail early player, but sucky product, Internet swamped it, price was not the pb >Banyan interesting but was never a threat to Novell through 80´s and 90´s. price was not the pb >Who else is struggling? Well Allaire for one. Macromedia's performance >hasn't been that stellar recently. It´s an MS world, period. Len ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
dont you all remember CFML -> ASP converter that was all the topic of rage discussion - Defroster!!! It sucked. It died. The last app to do a decent job of it was , and we know what happened to that :-) - Original Message - From: "Adrian Cooper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 3:13 PM Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > One of these days someone will come up with a CF -> ASP.NET or CF-> PHP code > converter, which simply converts CF templates to the new target code. > > That is the day when MM will need to worry! > > p.s. - there isn't such a thing is there? > > Adrian Cooper. > > > > ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
> I'm betting the change isn't as drastic as we're > making it out to be though. Actually, the wording of the first announcement really did make it out to be pretty bad if you paid attention to what it very specifically said, hence todays lengthy comments. The clarification just posted, however, clears that all up very nicely. Ken ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
I just spoke to 3 of my clients. Coincidently, one of them is in the process of hiring programmers. After a brief discussion, it appears instead of hiring cf developers, "based on the Coldfusion Press release, we have decided to extend our java staff". Fortunately my business is architecture and not coding, but it appears my web clients are going to either a) not upgrade their current boxes to 5.0 and/or b) find another solution for new business. So I guess its back to programming in Java, there goes all the free time I used for naked disco parties. Btw when they suggested doing stuff in Java I mentioned using JRUN as the engine, their reply was, "Right, Macromedia dicks us on licensing in CF5 so we can turn around and use one of their other products? No, we are going with weblogic because people know the product and we understand its licensing structure". Another client commented "M* f*, it already has a bad rap, the last think you wanna do is make it cost-ineffective for anyone to use they're trying to sell it for the price of a java app server w/o the performance". The last client said they were going to move new business to PHP. So here is my spin on the whole thing... Ben Forta says "Be patient, wait to see the pricing structure before you make a decision" Well, I think Macromedia needs to hire a press department that has an idea of how to relay information. In the record business, we had a saying. "If yer gonna scream "fire" in your own movie theatre, at least wait until the movie is over and the fire trucks are outside." That is, don't send out a press release saying you are going to dick your loyal customers with a new licensing scheme until you can send out that release WITH the new licensing scheme. Further more, from the response on these lists, it doesn't appear any research was done in regards to this new pricing structure. If Allaire counts on selling CF licenses for revenue, it looks like if you were ever going to sell them short on Wallstreet now would be the time, because I don't see them selling the same number of CF5 servers as they did previous versions and they do not make any "new" income on prior installations. And as I recall you can't buy previous versions after they release a new one. So they lose those sales as well.* If I am a hosting company I am just going to tell my clients that "sorry you can't query a query here", and continue to grab clients that do not need that functionality. Also, if you are a hosting company I would buy all the cf4.5 servers you think you are going to need for new boxes as Allaire doesn't make previous versions available after a new release. As for me, it doesn't really impact me. Anything I do on my own will be in 4.5. I am not going to argue Allaire's licensing plan with any of my clients that are otherwise inclined as I don't receive a check from Allaire to do so and my skill set gives me other options. I am curious however how big time partners like Figleaf and Autobytel are taking this news. As for Dinowitz and House of Fusion, Macromedia would have to be complete fucking morons to charge the purveyor of the ColdFusion community more to continue to be their glue. Sean Renet. - Original Message ----- From: "Chris Colón" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 1:51 PM Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > 'is there any book called "PHP by April30th"??' - lol > > A couple folks have asked for it, so here's the text of the announcement that hosting partners received yesterday > (apologies if my Netscape Communicator email program parses the line feeds weirdly): > > - > > Dear Partner, > > On April 30, 2001, Macromedia will be announcing the launch of ColdFusion Server 5 and the ColdFusion Server 5 > Hosting Service Provider Edition, which consists of a new End-User License for commercial hosting service > providers. > > We are excited to provide you with advanced notice of our announcement of the launch of a new Hosting Edition for > ColdFusion 5.0 that offers Web Hosting partners improved functionality as well as new licensing terms. > > Improved Functionality > > ColdFusion Server 5 has new functionality that will help hosters improve the management and enhance the performance > of hosted ColdFusion servers. It also provides existing ColdFusion users with numerous new features that should > drive more business for ColdFusion hosters. The following is brief description of some of those features: > > * SNMP MIB (Management Information Base)- Provides performance and availability data so that ColdFusion > servers can be monitored from within an enterprise systems management con
RE: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
"Macromedia" ColdFusion goes RC at http://beta.allaire.com ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License
What kind of looney decision making process does your client have, that they would make that kind of a decision based on the few facts that are currently available? I don't understand that at all. That's just plain bad business. Maybe it's the decision that they would ultimately come to AFTER the dust settles. But to make that call at this point, before the facts are even known is not smart. It very well could be that the pricing actually may even be MORE attractive - considering the added features that are supposed to be bundled in CF5. I can't imagine shifting programming platforms at this point - until I had enough information to make an educated decision. That's just "knee-jerk" management. I think everyone is short-changing and underestimating A/MM at this point. Everyone's going bezerk for no good reason . . . yet Dave - Original Message - From: Sean Renet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: CF-Talk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 8:33 PM Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > I just spoke to 3 of my clients. Coincidently, one of them is in the > process of hiring programmers. After a brief discussion, it appears instead > of hiring cf developers, "based on the Coldfusion Press release, we have > decided to extend our java staff". Fortunately my business is architecture > and not coding, but it appears my web clients are going to either a) not > upgrade their current boxes to 5.0 and/or b) find another solution for new > business. So I guess its back to programming in Java, there goes all the > free time I used for naked disco parties. Btw when they suggested doing > stuff in Java I mentioned using JRUN as the engine, their reply was, "Right, > Macromedia dicks us on licensing in CF5 so we can turn around and use one of > their other products? No, we are going with weblogic because people know > the product and we understand its licensing structure". Another client > commented "M* f*, it already has a bad rap, the last think you wanna > do is make it cost-ineffective for anyone to use they're trying to sell > it for the price of a java app server w/o the performance". The last client > said they were going to move new business to PHP. > > So here is my spin on the whole thing... > > Ben Forta says "Be patient, wait to see the pricing structure before you > make a decision" > > Well, I think Macromedia needs to hire a press department that has an idea > of how to relay information. In the record business, we had a saying. "If > yer gonna scream "fire" in your own movie theatre, at least wait until the > movie is over and the fire trucks are outside." That is, don't send out a > press release saying you are going to dick your loyal customers with a new > licensing scheme until you can send out that release WITH the new licensing > scheme. Further more, from the response on these lists, it doesn't appear > any research was done in regards to this new pricing structure. If Allaire > counts on selling CF licenses for revenue, it looks like if you were ever > going to sell them short on Wallstreet now would be the time, because I > don't see them selling the same number of CF5 servers as they did previous > versions and they do not make any "new" income on prior installations. > And as I recall you can't buy previous versions after they release a new > one. So they lose those sales as well.* If I am a hosting company I am > just going to tell my clients that "sorry you can't query a query here", and > continue to grab clients that do not need that functionality. Also, if you > are a hosting company I would buy all the cf4.5 servers you think you are > going to need for new boxes as Allaire doesn't make previous versions > available after a new release. > > As for me, it doesn't really impact me. Anything I do on my own will be in > 4.5. I am not going to argue Allaire's licensing plan with any of my > clients that are otherwise inclined as I don't receive a check from Allaire > to do so and my skill set gives me other options. I am curious however how > big time partners like Figleaf and Autobytel are taking this news. > > As for Dinowitz and House of Fusion, Macromedia would have to be complete > fucking morons to charge the purveyor of the ColdFusion community more to > continue to be their glue. > > > Sean Renet. > > - Original Message - > From: "Chris Colón" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 1:51 PM > Subject: Re: New CF5 Partner Hosting License > > > > 'is t
