subject:"Re\: Where is the error.log gone\?"



Le 15/09/2014 16:13, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :

On Sep 15, 2014, at 2:47 PM, Jacques Le Roux  
wrote:


I guess you speak about OFBIZ-5287. Then I have just reopened and assigned it 
to myself.

Don't mess up also with that; that ticket should be left closed. If you want to 
continue to waste our time on the error.log thing at least please create a new 
ticket for it. At least the release roadmap will be clean.


Good point

Jacques



Jacopo

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

2014-09-15 Thread Jacopo Cappellato

On Sep 15, 2014, at 2:47 PM, Jacques Le Roux  
wrote:

> I guess you speak about OFBIZ-5287. Then I have just reopened and assigned it 
> to myself.

Don't mess up also with that; that ticket should be left closed. If you want to 
continue to waste our time on the error.log thing at least please create a new 
ticket for it. At least the release roadmap will be clean.

Jacopo

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

I would be in favor of adding more comments if it will help end users 
configure their local copy.


But keep in mind those comments remove the necessity of adding the error 
log to the trunk - since they will know how to enable it themselves.


Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 9/15/2014 1:47 PM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:


Le 15/09/2014 14:29, Adrian Crum a écrit :

The issue has been resolved, so yes - I am trying to get you to shut
up about it.


I guess you speak about OFBIZ-5287. Then I have just reopened and
assigned it to myself.
My plan is to propose and alternative log4j2.xml with some inline
comments (never hurt if maintained) and to put back error.log. This is
in a patch submitted at OFBIZ-5287.
Then I will to ask users (on user ML) to vote for putting back the
error.log or not. This is called democracy and majority will tell us. I
have not much hope, but I want to try.

Jacques


If you spent half as much time creating a configuration patch as you
did making your silly pointless arguments, then your customers and
sysadmins would have the log configurations they need.

Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 9/15/2014 1:17 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:

I am not debating your point that configuring log settings is a standard
practice. I am debating the mimimum that OFBiz provides OOTB and whether
that is good enough for the majority of the users.

I use OFBiz in my business. I offer it as a business solution to my
prospective customers, and I provide services around around OFBiz.
So yes, I have a vested interest in having a solution that is easily
implemented, including ease of reporting on functioning in any kind of
operation setting. An OOTB error.log helps with that. Having someone
to go
into an extensive log file and extract from there the errors and report
those is eating up more time than having the report ready. Likewise is
having to configure every new instantiation to get it to the default
that
is needed in a business environment (and according to business needs).
Having a feature set and a configuration setting that satisfies the
majority is better than having one that satisfies a minority.

That you hold my argument as just for the sake of argumentative, is
beside
the reality I am faced with.  A reality that others might have as
well. It
seems to me that your last remark is rather intended to have me (and
others) shut up about this than trying to resolve this issue.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 1:52 PM, Adrian Crum <
adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com> wrote:


I agree the importance is in the arguments.

You have argued that *forcing* someone to configure their log
settings in
a production deployment places an undue burden on them. As I have
pointed
out, configuring log settings is standard practice - no one is being
forced
to do it. In fact, only a fool would run OFBiz in a production
environment
using the OOTB settings.

So, your argument has been contrived simply for the sake of being
argumentative. Clearly, your participation in this discussion is not
in the
best interest of the community.

Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 9/15/2014 12:35 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:


The timing of when an opinion is expressed in a posting should be
considered of a lesser importance than the arguments in such postings.

Given that your viewpoint only supports your personal case, makes me
wonder
whether you have the best interest of other community members and
users at
heart.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Pierre Smits

wrote:

  Having an error.log OOTB, for sure, doens't have a negative
impact on

you.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:19 PM, Scott Gray



wrote:

  Everyone?  So far we only have Jacques.  Well and you I guess, but

that's
debatable considering you only just decided yesterday to form a
strong
opinion so I have my doubts about it having a negative impact for
you.

Regards
Scott

On 15/09/2014, at 10:14 pm, Pierre Smits 
wrote:

  Why *force* EVERYONE not to have an error log OOTB? Why *force*



EVERYONE to


spend time and money to get it back in?

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Adrian Crum <
adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com> wrote:

  Jacques,


That perspective goes both ways. From my perspective, you are
trying
*force* everyone to do things your way.

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

Le 15/09/2014 14:29, Adrian Crum a écrit :

The issue has been resolved, so yes - I am trying to get you to shut up about
it.

I guess you speak about OFBIZ-5287. Then I have just reopened and assigned it
to myself.
My plan is to propose and alternative log4j2.xml with some inline comments (never hurt if maintained) and to put back error.log. This is in a patch
submitted at OFBIZ-5287.
Then I will to ask users (on user ML) to vote for putting back the error.log or not. This is called democracy and majority will tell us. I have not
much hope, but I want to try.

Jacques

If you spent half as much time creating a configuration patch as you did making your silly pointless arguments, then your customers and sysadmins
would have the log configurations they need.

Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 9/15/2014 1:17 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:

I am not debating your point that configuring log settings is a standard
practice. I am debating the mimimum that OFBiz provides OOTB and whether
that is good enough for the majority of the users.

I use OFBiz in my business. I offer it as a business solution to my
prospective customers, and I provide services around around OFBiz.
So yes, I have a vested interest in having a solution that is easily
implemented, including ease of reporting on functioning in any kind of
operation setting. An OOTB error.log helps with that. Having someone to go
into an extensive log file and extract from there the errors and report
those is eating up more time than having the report ready. Likewise is
having to configure every new instantiation to get it to the default that
is needed in a business environment (and according to business needs).
Having a feature set and a configuration setting that satisfies the
majority is better than having one that satisfies a minority.

That you hold my argument as just for the sake of argumentative, is beside
the reality I am faced with. A reality that others might have as well. It
seems to me that your last remark is rather intended to have me (and
others) shut up about this than trying to resolve this issue.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 1:52 PM, Adrian Crum <
adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com> wrote:

I agree the importance is in the arguments.

You have argued that *forcing* someone to configure their log settings in
a production deployment places an undue burden on them. As I have pointed
out, configuring log settings is standard practice - no one is being forced
to do it. In fact, only a fool would run OFBiz in a production environment
using the OOTB settings.

So, your argument has been contrived simply for the sake of being
argumentative. Clearly, your participation in this discussion is not in the
best interest of the community.

Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 9/15/2014 12:35 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:

The timing of when an opinion is expressed in a posting should be
considered of a lesser importance than the arguments in such postings.

Given that your viewpoint only supports your personal case, makes me
wonder
whether you have the best interest of other community members and users at
heart.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Pierre Smits
wrote:

Having an error.log OOTB, for sure, doens't have a negative impact on

you.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:19 PM, Scott Gray

wrote:

Everyone? So far we only have Jacques. Well and you I guess, but

that's
debatable considering you only just decided yesterday to form a strong
opinion so I have my doubts about it having a negative impact for you.

Regards
Scott

On 15/09/2014, at 10:14 pm, Pierre Smits
wrote:

Why *force* EVERYONE not to have an error log OOTB? Why *force*

EVERYONE to

spend time and money to get it back in?

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Adrian Crum <
adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com> wrote:

Jacques,

That perspective goes both ways. From my perspective, you are trying
*force* everyone to do things your way.

That is why everyone is trying to get you to realize that a
one-size-fits-all setting will not work - because everyone is

different.

If you want the error log on your installation, then configure it to
do
so. Why *force* EVERYONE to have an error log?

Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 9/15/2014 10:19 AM, J

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

The issue has been resolved, so yes - I am trying to get you to shut up 
about it.


If you spent half as much time creating a configuration patch as you did 
making your silly pointless arguments, then your customers and sysadmins 
would have the log configurations they need.


Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 9/15/2014 1:17 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:

I am not debating your point that configuring log settings is a standard
practice. I am debating the mimimum that OFBiz provides OOTB and whether
that is good enough for the majority of the users.

I use OFBiz in my business. I offer it as a business solution to my
prospective customers, and I provide services around around OFBiz.
So yes, I have a vested interest in having a solution that is easily
implemented, including ease of reporting on functioning in any kind of
operation setting. An OOTB error.log helps with that. Having someone to go
into an extensive log file and extract from there the errors and report
those is eating up more time than having the report ready. Likewise is
having to configure every new instantiation to get it to the default that
is needed in a business environment (and according to business needs).
Having a feature set and a configuration setting that satisfies the
majority is better than having one that satisfies a minority.

That you hold my argument as just for the sake of argumentative, is beside
the reality I am faced with.  A reality that others might have as well. It
seems to me that your last remark is rather intended to have me (and
others) shut up about this than trying to resolve this issue.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 1:52 PM, Adrian Crum <
adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com> wrote:


I agree the importance is in the arguments.

You have argued that *forcing* someone to configure their log settings in
a production deployment places an undue burden on them. As I have pointed
out, configuring log settings is standard practice - no one is being forced
to do it. In fact, only a fool would run OFBiz in a production environment
using the OOTB settings.

So, your argument has been contrived simply for the sake of being
argumentative. Clearly, your participation in this discussion is not in the
best interest of the community.

Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 9/15/2014 12:35 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:


The timing of when an opinion is expressed in a posting should be
considered of a lesser importance than the arguments in such postings.

Given that your viewpoint only supports your personal case, makes me
wonder
whether you have the best interest of other community members and users at
heart.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Pierre Smits 
wrote:

  Having an error.log OOTB, for sure, doens't have a negative impact on

you.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:19 PM, Scott Gray 


wrote:

  Everyone?  So far we only have Jacques.  Well and you I guess, but

that's
debatable considering you only just decided yesterday to form a strong
opinion so I have my doubts about it having a negative impact for you.

Regards
Scott

On 15/09/2014, at 10:14 pm, Pierre Smits 
wrote:

  Why *force* EVERYONE not to have an error log OOTB? Why *force*



EVERYONE to


spend time and money to get it back in?

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Adrian Crum <
adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com> wrote:

  Jacques,


That perspective goes both ways. From my perspective, you are trying
*force* everyone to do things your way.

That is why everyone is trying to get you to realize that a
one-size-fits-all setting will not work - because everyone is


different.





If you want the error log on your installation, then configure it to
do
so. Why *force* EVERYONE to have an error log?

Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 9/15/2014 10:19 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:

  Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily



fix



or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...


But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way
than you, are you an OFBiz prophet?

Jacques

Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :

  As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz

installations I can assure you that the error.log is redundant and
provides no true value over ofbiz.log.

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

2014-09-15 Thread Nicolas Malin


And in finaly, why not just adding this :

Index: framework/base/config/log4j2.xml
===
--- framework/base/config/log4j2.xml(révision 1625001)
+++ framework/base/config/log4j2.xml(copie de travail)
@@ -1,4 +1,8 @@
 
+
 
 
 



Le 15/09/2014 12:09, Adrian Crum a écrit :

Jacques,

That perspective goes both ways. From my perspective, you are trying 
*force* everyone to do things your way.


That is why everyone is trying to get you to realize that a 
one-size-fits-all setting will not work - because everyone is different.


If you want the error log on your installation, then configure it to 
do so. Why *force* EVERYONE to have an error log?


Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 9/15/2014 10:19 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:

Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily fix
or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...

But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way
than you, are you an OFBiz prophet?

Jacques

Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :

As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz
installations I can assure you that the error.log is redundant and
provides no true value over ofbiz.log.  As I've mentioned a few times
now, OFBiz errors are regularly worthless without knowledge of the
context of the error which can only be found in ofbiz.log.

With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and even
a basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when
investigating log files.

Regards
Scott

On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits  wrote:

On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting 
costs

money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in
identification
and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 2, etc),
specifically the error control process (in ITIL)

Without this OOTB more time is spend on:

   - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various 
OFBiz

   systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
   - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.



Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray 


wrote:


On what basis?

Regards
Scott

On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits  
wrote:



I support reverting this regression.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
jacopo.cappell...@gmail.com> wrote:


On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:


I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the
error.log in

log4j2.xml

Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure
logging:

it

is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better
than the
other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like 
it but

me or

others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways;
since

no

one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back this
confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better than

other;

for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.


and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.

I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you
have been
trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning
of this
thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently)
but I
will not start to fight with you.

Jacopo

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

I am not debating your point that configuring log settings is a standard
practice. I am debating the mimimum that OFBiz provides OOTB and whether
that is good enough for the majority of the users.

I use OFBiz in my business. I offer it as a business solution to my
prospective customers, and I provide services around around OFBiz.
So yes, I have a vested interest in having a solution that is easily
implemented, including ease of reporting on functioning in any kind of
operation setting. An OOTB error.log helps with that. Having someone to go
into an extensive log file and extract from there the errors and report
those is eating up more time than having the report ready. Likewise is
having to configure every new instantiation to get it to the default that
is needed in a business environment (and according to business needs).
Having a feature set and a configuration setting that satisfies the
majority is better than having one that satisfies a minority.

That you hold my argument as just for the sake of argumentative, is beside
the reality I am faced with.  A reality that others might have as well. It
seems to me that your last remark is rather intended to have me (and
others) shut up about this than trying to resolve this issue.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 1:52 PM, Adrian Crum <
adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com> wrote:

> I agree the importance is in the arguments.
>
> You have argued that *forcing* someone to configure their log settings in
> a production deployment places an undue burden on them. As I have pointed
> out, configuring log settings is standard practice - no one is being forced
> to do it. In fact, only a fool would run OFBiz in a production environment
> using the OOTB settings.
>
> So, your argument has been contrived simply for the sake of being
> argumentative. Clearly, your participation in this discussion is not in the
> best interest of the community.
>
> Adrian Crum
> Sandglass Software
> www.sandglass-software.com
>
> On 9/15/2014 12:35 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>
>> The timing of when an opinion is expressed in a posting should be
>> considered of a lesser importance than the arguments in such postings.
>>
>> Given that your viewpoint only supports your personal case, makes me
>> wonder
>> whether you have the best interest of other community members and users at
>> heart.
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *ORRTIZ.COM *
>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail & Trade
>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Pierre Smits 
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Having an error.log OOTB, for sure, doens't have a negative impact on
>>> you.
>>>
>>> Pierre Smits
>>>
>>> *ORRTIZ.COM *
>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:19 PM, Scott Gray >> >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Everyone?  So far we only have Jacques.  Well and you I guess, but
 that's
 debatable considering you only just decided yesterday to form a strong
 opinion so I have my doubts about it having a negative impact for you.

 Regards
 Scott

 On 15/09/2014, at 10:14 pm, Pierre Smits 
 wrote:

  Why *force* EVERYONE not to have an error log OOTB? Why *force*
>
 EVERYONE to

> spend time and money to get it back in?
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM *
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Adrian Crum <
> adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com> wrote:
>
>  Jacques,
>>
>> That perspective goes both ways. From my perspective, you are trying
>> *force* everyone to do things your way.
>>
>> That is why everyone is trying to get you to realize that a
>> one-size-fits-all setting will not work - because everyone is
>>
> different.

>
>> If you want the error log on your installation, then configure it to
>> do
>> so. Why *force* EVERYONE to have an error log?
>>
>> Adrian Crum
>> Sandglass Software
>> www.sandglass-software.com
>>
>> On 9/15/2014 10:19 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>
>>  Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily
>>>
>> fix

> or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...
>>>
>>> But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way
>>> than you, are you an OFBiz prophet?
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>> Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :
>>>
>>>  As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBi

Re: Where is the error.log gone?


I agree the importance is in the arguments.

You have argued that *forcing* someone to configure their log settings 
in a production deployment places an undue burden on them. As I have 
pointed out, configuring log settings is standard practice - no one is 
being forced to do it. In fact, only a fool would run OFBiz in a 
production environment using the OOTB settings.


So, your argument has been contrived simply for the sake of being 
argumentative. Clearly, your participation in this discussion is not in 
the best interest of the community.


Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 9/15/2014 12:35 PM, Pierre Smits wrote:

The timing of when an opinion is expressed in a posting should be
considered of a lesser importance than the arguments in such postings.

Given that your viewpoint only supports your personal case, makes me wonder
whether you have the best interest of other community members and users at
heart.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Pierre Smits 
wrote:


Having an error.log OOTB, for sure, doens't have a negative impact on you.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:19 PM, Scott Gray 
wrote:


Everyone?  So far we only have Jacques.  Well and you I guess, but that's
debatable considering you only just decided yesterday to form a strong
opinion so I have my doubts about it having a negative impact for you.

Regards
Scott

On 15/09/2014, at 10:14 pm, Pierre Smits  wrote:


Why *force* EVERYONE not to have an error log OOTB? Why *force*

EVERYONE to

spend time and money to get it back in?

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Adrian Crum <
adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com> wrote:


Jacques,

That perspective goes both ways. From my perspective, you are trying
*force* everyone to do things your way.

That is why everyone is trying to get you to realize that a
one-size-fits-all setting will not work - because everyone is

different.


If you want the error log on your installation, then configure it to do
so. Why *force* EVERYONE to have an error log?

Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 9/15/2014 10:19 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:


Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily

fix

or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...

But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way
than you, are you an OFBiz prophet?

Jacques

Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :


As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz
installations I can assure you that the error.log is redundant and
provides no true value over ofbiz.log.  As I've mentioned a few times
now, OFBiz errors are regularly worthless without knowledge of the
context of the error which can only be found in ofbiz.log.

With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and even
a basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when
investigating log files.

Regards
Scott

On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits 

wrote:


On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting

costs

money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in
identification
and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 2, etc),
specifically the error control process (in ITIL)

Without this OOTB more time is spend on:

   - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various

OFBiz

   systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
   - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.



Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray <

scott.g...@hotwaxmedia.com



wrote:

On what basis?


Regards
Scott

On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits 
wrote:

I support reverting this regression.


Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
jacopo.cappell...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <

jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:

I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the

error.log in


log4j2.xml

Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure
logging:

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

The timing of when an opinion is expressed in a posting should be
considered of a lesser importance than the arguments in such postings.

Given that your viewpoint only supports your personal case, makes me wonder
whether you have the best interest of other community members and users at
heart.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Pierre Smits 
wrote:

> Having an error.log OOTB, for sure, doens't have a negative impact on you.
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM *
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:19 PM, Scott Gray 
> wrote:
>
>> Everyone?  So far we only have Jacques.  Well and you I guess, but that's
>> debatable considering you only just decided yesterday to form a strong
>> opinion so I have my doubts about it having a negative impact for you.
>>
>> Regards
>> Scott
>>
>> On 15/09/2014, at 10:14 pm, Pierre Smits  wrote:
>>
>> > Why *force* EVERYONE not to have an error log OOTB? Why *force*
>> EVERYONE to
>> > spend time and money to get it back in?
>> >
>> > Pierre Smits
>> >
>> > *ORRTIZ.COM *
>> > Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>> > Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> > Services and Retail & Trade
>> > http://www.orrtiz.com
>> >
>> > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Adrian Crum <
>> > adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Jacques,
>> >>
>> >> That perspective goes both ways. From my perspective, you are trying
>> >> *force* everyone to do things your way.
>> >>
>> >> That is why everyone is trying to get you to realize that a
>> >> one-size-fits-all setting will not work - because everyone is
>> different.
>> >>
>> >> If you want the error log on your installation, then configure it to do
>> >> so. Why *force* EVERYONE to have an error log?
>> >>
>> >> Adrian Crum
>> >> Sandglass Software
>> >> www.sandglass-software.com
>> >>
>> >> On 9/15/2014 10:19 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily
>> fix
>> >>> or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...
>> >>>
>> >>> But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way
>> >>> than you, are you an OFBiz prophet?
>> >>>
>> >>> Jacques
>> >>>
>> >>> Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :
>> >>>
>>  As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz
>>  installations I can assure you that the error.log is redundant and
>>  provides no true value over ofbiz.log.  As I've mentioned a few times
>>  now, OFBiz errors are regularly worthless without knowledge of the
>>  context of the error which can only be found in ofbiz.log.
>> 
>>  With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and even
>>  a basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when
>>  investigating log files.
>> 
>>  Regards
>>  Scott
>> 
>>  On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>  On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting
>> costs
>> > money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
>> > An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in
>> > identification
>> > and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
>> > methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 2, etc),
>> > specifically the error control process (in ITIL)
>> >
>> > Without this OOTB more time is spend on:
>> >
>> >   - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various
>> OFBiz
>> >   systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
>> >   - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Pierre Smits
>> >
>> > *ORRTIZ.COM *
>> > Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>> > Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> > Services and Retail & Trade
>> > http://www.orrtiz.com
>> >
>> > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray <
>> scott.g...@hotwaxmedia.com
>> >>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > On what basis?
>> >>
>> >> Regards
>> >> Scott
>> >>
>> >> On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits 
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I support reverting this regression.
>> >>>
>> >>> Pierre Smits
>> >>>
>> >>> *ORRTIZ.COM *
>> >>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>> >>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> >>> Services and Retail & Trade
>> >>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>> >>>
>> >>> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
>> >>> jacopo.cappell...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>> >

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

Having an error.log OOTB, for sure, doens't have a negative impact on you.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:19 PM, Scott Gray 
wrote:

> Everyone?  So far we only have Jacques.  Well and you I guess, but that's
> debatable considering you only just decided yesterday to form a strong
> opinion so I have my doubts about it having a negative impact for you.
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On 15/09/2014, at 10:14 pm, Pierre Smits  wrote:
>
> > Why *force* EVERYONE not to have an error log OOTB? Why *force* EVERYONE
> to
> > spend time and money to get it back in?
> >
> > Pierre Smits
> >
> > *ORRTIZ.COM *
> > Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> > Based Manufacturing, Professional
> > Services and Retail & Trade
> > http://www.orrtiz.com
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Adrian Crum <
> > adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Jacques,
> >>
> >> That perspective goes both ways. From my perspective, you are trying
> >> *force* everyone to do things your way.
> >>
> >> That is why everyone is trying to get you to realize that a
> >> one-size-fits-all setting will not work - because everyone is different.
> >>
> >> If you want the error log on your installation, then configure it to do
> >> so. Why *force* EVERYONE to have an error log?
> >>
> >> Adrian Crum
> >> Sandglass Software
> >> www.sandglass-software.com
> >>
> >> On 9/15/2014 10:19 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> >>
> >>> Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily
> fix
> >>> or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...
> >>>
> >>> But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way
> >>> than you, are you an OFBiz prophet?
> >>>
> >>> Jacques
> >>>
> >>> Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :
> >>>
>  As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz
>  installations I can assure you that the error.log is redundant and
>  provides no true value over ofbiz.log.  As I've mentioned a few times
>  now, OFBiz errors are regularly worthless without knowledge of the
>  context of the error which can only be found in ofbiz.log.
> 
>  With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and even
>  a basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when
>  investigating log files.
> 
>  Regards
>  Scott
> 
>  On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits 
> wrote:
> 
>  On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting
> costs
> > money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
> > An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in
> > identification
> > and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
> > methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 2, etc),
> > specifically the error control process (in ITIL)
> >
> > Without this OOTB more time is spend on:
> >
> >   - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various
> OFBiz
> >   systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
> >   - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.
> >
> >
> >
> > Pierre Smits
> >
> > *ORRTIZ.COM *
> > Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> > Based Manufacturing, Professional
> > Services and Retail & Trade
> > http://www.orrtiz.com
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray <
> scott.g...@hotwaxmedia.com
> >>
> > wrote:
> >
> > On what basis?
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Scott
> >>
> >> On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> I support reverting this regression.
> >>>
> >>> Pierre Smits
> >>>
> >>> *ORRTIZ.COM *
> >>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> >>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >>> Services and Retail & Trade
> >>> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
> >>> jacopo.cappell...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>  jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:
> 
>  I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the
> > error.log in
> >
>  log4j2.xml
> 
>  Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure
>  logging:
> 
> >>> it
> >>
> >>> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better
>  than the
>  other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like it
> but
> 
> >>> me or
> >>
> >>> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways;
>  since
> 
> >>> no
> >>
> >>

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

Everyone?  So far we only have Jacques.  Well and you I guess, but that's 
debatable considering you only just decided yesterday to form a strong opinion 
so I have my doubts about it having a negative impact for you.

Regards
Scott

On 15/09/2014, at 10:14 pm, Pierre Smits  wrote:

> Why *force* EVERYONE not to have an error log OOTB? Why *force* EVERYONE to
> spend time and money to get it back in?
> 
> Pierre Smits
> 
> *ORRTIZ.COM *
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
> 
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Adrian Crum <
> adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com> wrote:
> 
>> Jacques,
>> 
>> That perspective goes both ways. From my perspective, you are trying
>> *force* everyone to do things your way.
>> 
>> That is why everyone is trying to get you to realize that a
>> one-size-fits-all setting will not work - because everyone is different.
>> 
>> If you want the error log on your installation, then configure it to do
>> so. Why *force* EVERYONE to have an error log?
>> 
>> Adrian Crum
>> Sandglass Software
>> www.sandglass-software.com
>> 
>> On 9/15/2014 10:19 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>> 
>>> Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily fix
>>> or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...
>>> 
>>> But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way
>>> than you, are you an OFBiz prophet?
>>> 
>>> Jacques
>>> 
>>> Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :
>>> 
 As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz
 installations I can assure you that the error.log is redundant and
 provides no true value over ofbiz.log.  As I've mentioned a few times
 now, OFBiz errors are regularly worthless without knowledge of the
 context of the error which can only be found in ofbiz.log.
 
 With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and even
 a basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when
 investigating log files.
 
 Regards
 Scott
 
 On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits  wrote:
 
 On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting costs
> money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
> An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in
> identification
> and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
> methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 2, etc),
> specifically the error control process (in ITIL)
> 
> Without this OOTB more time is spend on:
> 
>   - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various OFBiz
>   systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
>   - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.
> 
> 
> 
> Pierre Smits
> 
> *ORRTIZ.COM *
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
> 
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray > 
> wrote:
> 
> On what basis?
>> 
>> Regards
>> Scott
>> 
>> On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I support reverting this regression.
>>> 
>>> Pierre Smits
>>> 
>>> *ORRTIZ.COM *
>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
>>> jacopo.cappell...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
 jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:
 
 I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the
> error.log in
> 
 log4j2.xml
 
 Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure
 logging:
 
>>> it
>> 
>>> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better
 than the
 other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like it but
 
>>> me or
>> 
>>> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways;
 since
 
>>> no
>> 
>>> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back this
 confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better than
 
>>> other;
>> 
>>> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
 
 and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
> 
 I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you
 have been
 trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning
 of this
 thread (and you did the same in at least another thread

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

No one is being forced to configure their deployment - it is a process 
(and cost) associated with EVERY OFBiz installation, regardless of the 
outcome of this discussion.


Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 9/15/2014 11:14 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:

Why *force* EVERYONE not to have an error log OOTB? Why *force* EVERYONE to
spend time and money to get it back in?

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Adrian Crum <
adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com> wrote:


Jacques,

That perspective goes both ways. From my perspective, you are trying
*force* everyone to do things your way.

That is why everyone is trying to get you to realize that a
one-size-fits-all setting will not work - because everyone is different.

If you want the error log on your installation, then configure it to do
so. Why *force* EVERYONE to have an error log?

Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 9/15/2014 10:19 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:


Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily fix
or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...

But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way
than you, are you an OFBiz prophet?

Jacques

Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :


As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz
installations I can assure you that the error.log is redundant and
provides no true value over ofbiz.log.  As I've mentioned a few times
now, OFBiz errors are regularly worthless without knowledge of the
context of the error which can only be found in ofbiz.log.

With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and even
a basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when
investigating log files.

Regards
Scott

On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits  wrote:

  On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting costs

money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in
identification
and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 2, etc),
specifically the error control process (in ITIL)

Without this OOTB more time is spend on:

- going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various OFBiz
systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
- getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.



Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray 


wrote:

  On what basis?


Regards
Scott

On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits 
wrote:

  I support reverting this regression.


Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
jacopo.cappell...@gmail.com> wrote:

  On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <

jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:

  I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the

error.log in


log4j2.xml

Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure
logging:


it



is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better

than the
other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like it but


me or



others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways;

since


no



one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back this

confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better than


other;



for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.


  and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.



I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you
have been
trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning
of this
thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently)
but I
will not start to fight with you.

Jacopo

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

Why *force* EVERYONE not to have an error log OOTB? Why *force* EVERYONE to
spend time and money to get it back in?

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Adrian Crum <
adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com> wrote:

> Jacques,
>
> That perspective goes both ways. From my perspective, you are trying
> *force* everyone to do things your way.
>
> That is why everyone is trying to get you to realize that a
> one-size-fits-all setting will not work - because everyone is different.
>
> If you want the error log on your installation, then configure it to do
> so. Why *force* EVERYONE to have an error log?
>
> Adrian Crum
> Sandglass Software
> www.sandglass-software.com
>
> On 9/15/2014 10:19 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>
>> Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily fix
>> or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...
>>
>> But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way
>> than you, are you an OFBiz prophet?
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :
>>
>>> As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz
>>> installations I can assure you that the error.log is redundant and
>>> provides no true value over ofbiz.log.  As I've mentioned a few times
>>> now, OFBiz errors are regularly worthless without knowledge of the
>>> context of the error which can only be found in ofbiz.log.
>>>
>>> With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and even
>>> a basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when
>>> investigating log files.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits  wrote:
>>>
>>>  On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting costs
 money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
 An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in
 identification
 and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
 methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 2, etc),
 specifically the error control process (in ITIL)

 Without this OOTB more time is spend on:

- going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various OFBiz
systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
- getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.



 Pierre Smits

 *ORRTIZ.COM *
 Services & Solutions for Cloud-
 Based Manufacturing, Professional
 Services and Retail & Trade
 http://www.orrtiz.com

 On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray >>> >
 wrote:

  On what basis?
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits 
> wrote:
>
>  I support reverting this regression.
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *ORRTIZ.COM *
>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail & Trade
>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
>> jacopo.cappell...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>  I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the
 error.log in

>>> log4j2.xml
>>>
>>> Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure
>>> logging:
>>>
>> it
>
>> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better
>>> than the
>>> other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like it but
>>>
>> me or
>
>> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways;
>>> since
>>>
>> no
>
>> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back this
>>> confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better than
>>>
>> other;
>
>> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
>>>
>>>  and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.

>>> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you
>>> have been
>>> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning
>>> of this
>>> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently)
>>> but I
>>> will not start to fight with you.
>>>
>>> Jacopo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

I use ssh and terminal for all log research (until I need to dig deeply, in 
which case I download the logs and split the them into individual threads, 
again because context is so important).  When I need to monitor logs for errors 
connect via ssh and use tail + grep, after a deployment for example.

I guess you have a different workflow, which is fine.  I'm just surprised that 
so much value is placed in the error.log files since I personally find them to 
be almost useless and am glad to have them out of the way.

Regards
Scott

On 15/09/2014, at 9:16 pm, Jacques Le Roux  wrote:

> We talk about lo4j2, you mean zgrep I guess?
> 
> Now consider this with no error.log
> You have to
> 1) login (how many machines?)
> 2) move to runtime/logs directory (idem)
> 3) moving/searching in your preferred text editor is easier than in a 
> terminal. So at this stage you might want to do rather "zgrep ":ERROR" 
> ofbiz.log > error.log"
> 4) open error.log with your preferred text editor
> 5) reiterate when things change...
> 
> With error.log, if you have many machines you may have all the error.logs 
> opened somewhere (WinScp, SSH, you name it) and "it's a breeze" to update and 
> search, etc.
> 
> I guess you see my points?
> 
> I really don't understand why Jacopo and yourself are so reluctant to put 
> back the error.log and I have to fight so much to explain my POV :/
> 
> Jacques
> 
> Le 15/09/2014 10:41, Scott Gray a écrit :
>> grep ":ERROR" ofbiz.log is too complicated?  It achieves exactly the same 
>> result.
>> 
>> Regards
>> Scott
>> 
>> On 15/09/2014, at 7:41 pm, Jacques Le Roux  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Le 15/09/2014 02:29, Scott Gray a écrit :
> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to monitor 
> what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient mean, 
> beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to simply 
> monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
 Could you please explain how it is easier?  There are a lot of errors (I 
 would say the majority) where the single log line doesn't give you 
 anywhere near enough information to find out the source and cause.  For 
 those you ultimately always have to go to the ofbiz.log file to understand 
 the context of the error.
>>> To early discriminate if it's an important (or very important) error/s that 
>>> should be addressed ASAP. In other words to define priorities, notably when 
>>> in development step with a team.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for asking
>>> 
>>> Jacques
>>> 
 Regards
 Scott
 
 On 12/09/2014, at 8:35 pm, Jacques Le Roux  
 wrote:
 
> Le 12/09/2014 06:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>> On Sep 11, 2014, at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition.
>> Was there a question for me? I was hoping that this waste of time was 
>> finished
>> 
>>> We could, as suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in 
>>> log4j2.xml and add 2 commented out sections for error.log
>>> 
>> So, you are not happy until you mess up with the log4j2 config file? :-) 
>> Apart from you, Jacques, no one complained or asked for modifications to 
>> the config file (even after you asked for feedback).
> I could be wrong, but it seems to me Pierre and Nicolas expressed 
> something about it
> 
> I'm not asking to put back the error.log w/o good reasons and I already 
> explained them
> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to monitor 
> what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient mean, 
> beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to simply 
> monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
> Of course again, I can change the log4j2.xml there as I can schlep a 
> patch in all places I would have to in future :/
> 
> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in 
> log4j2.xml and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot. Could 
> you explain your reasons please?
> 
> For the other part (comments), I explained why I prefer to have comments 
> in files over having an online documentation, ever if of course having 
> both is not bad (as long as the online doc is updated).
> 
> Jacques
> 
> 
> 
>> Jacopo
>> 
>>> Agreed?
>>> 
>>> Jacques
>>> 
>>> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
 And for whom
 
 Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
 
> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux 
>  het volgende geschreven:
> 
> 
> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a

Re: Where is the error.log gone?


Jacques,

That perspective goes both ways. From my perspective, you are trying 
*force* everyone to do things your way.


That is why everyone is trying to get you to realize that a 
one-size-fits-all setting will not work - because everyone is different.


If you want the error log on your installation, then configure it to do 
so. Why *force* EVERYONE to have an error log?


Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 9/15/2014 10:19 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:

Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily fix
or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...

But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way
than you, are you an OFBiz prophet?

Jacques

Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :

As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz
installations I can assure you that the error.log is redundant and
provides no true value over ofbiz.log.  As I've mentioned a few times
now, OFBiz errors are regularly worthless without knowledge of the
context of the error which can only be found in ofbiz.log.

With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and even
a basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when
investigating log files.

Regards
Scott

On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits  wrote:


On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting costs
money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in
identification
and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 2, etc),
specifically the error control process (in ITIL)

Without this OOTB more time is spend on:

   - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various OFBiz
   systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
   - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.



Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray 
wrote:


On what basis?

Regards
Scott

On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits  wrote:


I support reverting this regression.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
jacopo.cappell...@gmail.com> wrote:


On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:


I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the
error.log in

log4j2.xml

Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure
logging:

it

is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better
than the
other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like it but

me or

others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways;
since

no

one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back this
confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better than

other;

for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.


and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.

I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you
have been
trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning
of this
thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently)
but I
will not start to fight with you.

Jacopo

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

This is not just about the fact that changes can be made by anybody in
their own implementations. This is also a message to all prospective users
of OFBiz, and to the organisations who are trying to sell OFBiz as a
solution to their prospective customers.

'OFBiz doesn't have an error log OOTB' is a stupid message to convey to
those parties.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Scott Gray 
wrote:

> I'm not trying to force anything, I didn't make the change.  I'm just
> stating my opinion in this debate the same as you or anyone else.  Even the
> change is not about forcing anyone into a specific workflow, the debate is
> about making sensible defaults for OFBiz.  Changes can be made to suit
> anyone's needs in their respective checkouts.
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On 15/09/2014, at 9:19 pm, Jacques Le Roux 
> wrote:
>
> > Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily fix
> or wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...
> >
> > But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way
> than you, are you an OFBiz prophet?
> >
> > Jacques
> >
> > Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :
> >> As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz
> installations I can assure you that the error.log is redundant and provides
> no true value over ofbiz.log.  As I've mentioned a few times now, OFBiz
> errors are regularly worthless without knowledge of the context of the
> error which can only be found in ofbiz.log.
> >>
> >> With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and even a
> basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when investigating log
> files.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Scott
> >>
> >> On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits  wrote:
> >>
> >>> On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting costs
> >>> money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
> >>> An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in
> identification
> >>> and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
> >>> methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 2, etc),
> >>> specifically the error control process (in ITIL)
> >>>
> >>> Without this OOTB more time is spend on:
> >>>
> >>>   - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various OFBiz
> >>>   systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
> >>>   - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Pierre Smits
> >>>
> >>> *ORRTIZ.COM *
> >>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> >>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >>> Services and Retail & Trade
> >>> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray <
> scott.g...@hotwaxmedia.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
>  On what basis?
> 
>  Regards
>  Scott
> 
>  On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits 
> wrote:
> 
> > I support reverting this regression.
> >
> > Pierre Smits
> >
> > *ORRTIZ.COM *
> > Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> > Based Manufacturing, Professional
> > Services and Retail & Trade
> > http://www.orrtiz.com
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
> > jacopo.cappell...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
> >> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the
> error.log in
> >> log4j2.xml
> >>
> >> Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure
> logging:
>  it
> >> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better than
> the
> >> other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like it
> but
>  me or
> >> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways;
> since
>  no
> >> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back this
> >> confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better than
>  other;
> >> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
> >>
> >>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
> >> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you have
> been
> >> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning of
> this
> >> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently)
> but I
> >> will not start to fight with you.
> >>
> >> Jacopo
> >>
> >>
> 
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

I'm not trying to force anything, I didn't make the change.  I'm just stating 
my opinion in this debate the same as you or anyone else.  Even the change is 
not about forcing anyone into a specific workflow, the debate is about making 
sensible defaults for OFBiz.  Changes can be made to suit anyone's needs in 
their respective checkouts.

Regards
Scott

On 15/09/2014, at 9:19 pm, Jacques Le Roux  wrote:

> Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily fix or 
> wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...
> 
> But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way than 
> you, are you an OFBiz prophet?
> 
> Jacques
> 
> Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :
>> As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz installations I 
>> can assure you that the error.log is redundant and provides no true value 
>> over ofbiz.log.  As I've mentioned a few times now, OFBiz errors are 
>> regularly worthless without knowledge of the context of the error which can 
>> only be found in ofbiz.log.
>> 
>> With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and even a 
>> basic knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when investigating log 
>> files.
>> 
>> Regards
>> Scott
>> 
>> On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits  wrote:
>> 
>>> On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting costs
>>> money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
>>> An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in identification
>>> and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
>>> methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 2, etc),
>>> specifically the error control process (in ITIL)
>>> 
>>> Without this OOTB more time is spend on:
>>> 
>>>   - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various OFBiz
>>>   systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
>>>   - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Pierre Smits
>>> 
>>> *ORRTIZ.COM *
>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 On what basis?
 
 Regards
 Scott
 
 On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits  wrote:
 
> I support reverting this regression.
> 
> Pierre Smits
> 
> *ORRTIZ.COM *
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
> 
> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
> jacopo.cappell...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in
>> log4j2.xml
>> 
>> Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure logging:
 it
>> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better than the
>> other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like it but
 me or
>> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways; since
 no
>> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back this
>> confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better than
 other;
>> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
>> 
>>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
>> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you have been
>> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning of this
>> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently) but I
>> will not start to fight with you.
>> 
>> Jacopo
>> 
>> 
 
>> 
>> 
>

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

Not only that, but many of the larger organisations I have worked for had
automated processes in place that emailed the daily error logs to specific
officers, so that not only first level sys admins had that information. And
this had all to do with certifications, CRG, etc. And cost of operations of
course.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 11:16 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:

> We talk about lo4j2, you mean zgrep I guess?
>
> Now consider this with no error.log
> You have to
> 1) login (how many machines?)
> 2) move to runtime/logs directory (idem)
> 3) moving/searching in your preferred text editor is easier than in a
> terminal. So at this stage you might want to do rather "zgrep ":ERROR"
> ofbiz.log > error.log"
> 4) open error.log with your preferred text editor
> 5) reiterate when things change...
>
> With error.log, if you have many machines you may have all the error.logs
> opened somewhere (WinScp, SSH, you name it) and "it's a breeze" to update
> and search, etc.
>
> I guess you see my points?
>
> I really don't understand why Jacopo and yourself are so reluctant to put
> back the error.log and I have to fight so much to explain my POV :/
>
> Jacques
>
> Le 15/09/2014 10:41, Scott Gray a écrit :
>
>  grep ":ERROR" ofbiz.log is too complicated?  It achieves exactly the same
>> result.
>>
>> Regards
>> Scott
>>
>> On 15/09/2014, at 7:41 pm, Jacques Le Roux 
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Le 15/09/2014 02:29, Scott Gray a écrit :
>>>
 If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to monitor
> what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient mean,
> beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to
> simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
>
 Could you please explain how it is easier?  There are a lot of errors
 (I would say the majority) where the single log line doesn't give you
 anywhere near enough information to find out the source and cause.  For
 those you ultimately always have to go to the ofbiz.log file to understand
 the context of the error.

>>> To early discriminate if it's an important (or very important) error/s
>>> that should be addressed ASAP. In other words to define priorities, notably
>>> when in development step with a team.
>>>
>>> Thanks for asking
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>>  Regards
 Scott

 On 12/09/2014, at 8:35 pm, Jacques Le Roux <
 jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:

  Le 12/09/2014 06:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>
>> On Sep 11, 2014, at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
>> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition.
>>>
>> Was there a question for me? I was hoping that this waste of time was
>> finished
>>
>>  We could, as suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in
>>> log4j2.xml and add 2 commented out sections for error.log
>>>
>>>  So, you are not happy until you mess up with the log4j2 config
>> file? :-) Apart from you, Jacques, no one complained or asked for
>> modifications to the config file (even after you asked for feedback).
>>
> I could be wrong, but it seems to me Pierre and Nicolas expressed
> something about it
>
> I'm not asking to put back the error.log w/o good reasons and I
> already explained them
> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to
> monitor what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient
> mean, beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to
> simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
> Of course again, I can change the log4j2.xml there as I can schlep a
> patch in all places I would have to in future :/
>
> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log
> in log4j2.xml and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot. 
> Could
> you explain your reasons please?
>
> For the other part (comments), I explained why I prefer to have
> comments in files over having an online documentation, ever if of course
> having both is not bad (as long as the online doc is updated).
>
> Jacques
>
>
>
>  Jacopo
>>
>>  Agreed?
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>>>
 And for whom

 Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad

  Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <
> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:
>
>
> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a

Re: Where is the error.log gone?


Not when you want to quickly spot obvious errors that you can easily fix or 
wait to fix later, and yes I spent my share of debugging also...

But anyway, why do you want to *force* everybody to use the same way than you, 
are you an OFBiz prophet?

Jacques

Le 15/09/2014 10:53, Scott Gray a écrit :

As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz installations I can 
assure you that the error.log is redundant and provides no true value over 
ofbiz.log.  As I've mentioned a few times now, OFBiz errors are regularly 
worthless without knowledge of the context of the error which can only be found 
in ofbiz.log.

With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and even a basic 
knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when investigating log files.

Regards
Scott

On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits  wrote:


On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting costs
money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in identification
and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 2, etc),
specifically the error control process (in ITIL)

Without this OOTB more time is spend on:

   - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various OFBiz
   systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
   - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.



Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray 
wrote:


On what basis?

Regards
Scott

On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits  wrote:


I support reverting this regression.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
jacopo.cappell...@gmail.com> wrote:


On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:


I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in

log4j2.xml

Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure logging:

it

is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better than the
other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like it but

me or

others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways; since

no

one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back this
confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better than

other;

for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.


and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.

I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you have been
trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning of this
thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently) but I
will not start to fight with you.

Jacopo

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

We talk about lo4j2, you mean zgrep I guess?

Now consider this with no error.log
You have to
1) login (how many machines?)
2) move to runtime/logs directory (idem)
3) moving/searching in your preferred text editor is easier than in a terminal. So at this stage you might want to do rather "zgrep ":ERROR" ofbiz.log
> error.log"

4) open error.log with your preferred text editor
5) reiterate when things change...

With error.log, if you have many machines you may have all the error.logs opened somewhere (WinScp, SSH, you name it) and "it's a breeze" to update
and search, etc.

I guess you see my points?

I really don't understand why Jacopo and yourself are so reluctant to put back
the error.log and I have to fight so much to explain my POV :/

Jacques

Le 15/09/2014 10:41, Scott Gray a écrit :

grep ":ERROR" ofbiz.log is too complicated? It achieves exactly the same
result.

Regards
Scott

On 15/09/2014, at 7:41 pm, Jacques Le Roux wrote:

Le 15/09/2014 02:29, Scott Gray a écrit :

If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to monitor what's
happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient mean, beside tests and
reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to simply monitor
an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.

Could you please explain how it is easier? There are a lot of errors (I would
say the majority) where the single log line doesn't give you anywhere near
enough information to find out the source and cause. For those you ultimately
always have to go to the ofbiz.log file to understand the context of the error.

To early discriminate if it's an important (or very important) error/s that
should be addressed ASAP. In other words to define priorities, notably when in
development step with a team.

Thanks for asking

Jacques

Regards
Scott

On 12/09/2014, at 8:35 pm, Jacques Le Roux wrote:

Le 12/09/2014 06:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :

On Sep 11, 2014, at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux
wrote:

Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition.

Was there a question for me? I was hoping that this waste of time was finished

We could, as suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml and
add 2 commented out sections for error.log

So, you are not happy until you mess up with the log4j2 config file? :-) Apart
from you, Jacques, no one complained or asked for modifications to the config
file (even after you asked for feedback).

I could be wrong, but it seems to me Pierre and Nicolas expressed something
about it

I'm not asking to put back the error.log w/o good reasons and I already
explained them
If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to monitor what's
happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient mean, beside tests and
reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to simply monitor
an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
Of course again, I can change the log4j2.xml there as I can schlep a patch in
all places I would have to in future :/

I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in
log4j2.xml and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot. Could you
explain your reasons please?

For the other part (comments), I explained why I prefer to have comments in
files over having an online documentation, ever if of course having both is not
bad (as long as the online doc is updated).

Jacques

Jacopo

Agreed?

Jacques

Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :

And for whom

Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad

Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux
het volgende geschreven:

Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :

Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :

This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible, instead
of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.

It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.

On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file contains few
enable element but so mostly commented configurations with context explication
of the reason to use it.
With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple and help
uncover some other view.

No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters with my own
method to deploy them :)

Nicolas

That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know what means "as
clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above

Jacques

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

Similar like not having a balance sheet and income statement in an
accounting statement and putting it of with 'you can use a grep-equivalent'
to retrieve the information on the financial health of the organisation to
report to the stakeholders.

An automated process to generate an error.log file has a better tco than
having an operator grep it daily from an other, more extensive log file to
report on errors.


Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Scott Gray 
wrote:

> How so?
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On 15/09/2014, at 8:42 pm, Pierre Smits  wrote:
>
> > Cost more time, more money...
> >
> > Pierre Smits
> >
> > *ORRTIZ.COM *
> > Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> > Based Manufacturing, Professional
> > Services and Retail & Trade
> > http://www.orrtiz.com
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Scott Gray  >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> grep ":ERROR" ofbiz.log is too complicated?  It achieves exactly the
> same
> >> result.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Scott
> >>
> >> On 15/09/2014, at 7:41 pm, Jacques Le Roux <
> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Le 15/09/2014 02:29, Scott Gray a écrit :
> > If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to
> >> monitor what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient
> >> mean, beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
> > Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to
> >> simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
>  Could you please explain how it is easier?  There are a lot of errors
> >> (I would say the majority) where the single log line doesn't give you
> >> anywhere near enough information to find out the source and cause.  For
> >> those you ultimately always have to go to the ofbiz.log file to
> understand
> >> the context of the error.
> >>>
> >>> To early discriminate if it's an important (or very important) error/s
> >> that should be addressed ASAP. In other words to define priorities,
> notably
> >> when in development step with a team.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for asking
> >>>
> >>> Jacques
> >>>
> 
>  Regards
>  Scott
> 
>  On 12/09/2014, at 8:35 pm, Jacques Le Roux <
> >> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:
> 
> > Le 12/09/2014 06:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
> >> On Sep 11, 2014, at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
> >> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition.
> >> Was there a question for me? I was hoping that this waste of time
> was
> >> finished
> >>
> >>> We could, as suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in
> >> log4j2.xml and add 2 commented out sections for error.log
> >>>
> >> So, you are not happy until you mess up with the log4j2 config file?
> >> :-) Apart from you, Jacques, no one complained or asked for
> modifications
> >> to the config file (even after you asked for feedback).
> > I could be wrong, but it seems to me Pierre and Nicolas expressed
> >> something about it
> >
> > I'm not asking to put back the error.log w/o good reasons and I
> >> already explained them
> > If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to
> >> monitor what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient
> >> mean, beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
> > Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to
> >> simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
> > Of course again, I can change the log4j2.xml there as I can schlep a
> >> patch in all places I would have to in future :/
> >
> > I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log
> >> in log4j2.xml and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
> Could
> >> you explain your reasons please?
> >
> > For the other part (comments), I explained why I prefer to have
> >> comments in files over having an online documentation, ever if of course
> >> having both is not bad (as long as the online doc is updated).
> >
> > Jacques
> >
> >
> >
> >> Jacopo
> >>
> >>> Agreed?
> >>>
> >>> Jacques
> >>>
> >>> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>  And for whom
> 
>  Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
> 
> > Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <
> >> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:
> >
> >
> > Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
> >> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
> >>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as
> >> possible, instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal
> preferences.
> >> It's clear and good to simplify the c

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

As someone who has spent thousands of hours debugging OFBiz installations I can 
assure you that the error.log is redundant and provides no true value over 
ofbiz.log.  As I've mentioned a few times now, OFBiz errors are regularly 
worthless without knowledge of the context of the error which can only be found 
in ofbiz.log.

With a few command line tools "clutter" is a total non-issue and even a basic 
knowledge of those tools is a total time saver when investigating log files.

Regards
Scott

On 15/09/2014, at 7:43 pm, Pierre Smits  wrote:

> On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting costs
> money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
> An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in identification
> and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
> methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 2, etc),
> specifically the error control process (in ITIL)
> 
> Without this OOTB more time is spend on:
> 
>   - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various OFBiz
>   systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
>   - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.
> 
> 
> 
> Pierre Smits
> 
> *ORRTIZ.COM *
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
> 
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray 
> wrote:
> 
>> On what basis?
>> 
>> Regards
>> Scott
>> 
>> On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits  wrote:
>> 
>>> I support reverting this regression.
>>> 
>>> Pierre Smits
>>> 
>>> *ORRTIZ.COM *
>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
>>> jacopo.cappell...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
 On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
 jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:
 
> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in
 log4j2.xml
 
 Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure logging:
>> it
 is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better than the
 other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like it but
>> me or
 others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways; since
>> no
 one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back this
 confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better than
>> other;
 for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
 
> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
 
 I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you have been
 trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning of this
 thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently) but I
 will not start to fight with you.
 
 Jacopo
 
 
>> 
>>

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

How so?

Regards
Scott

On 15/09/2014, at 8:42 pm, Pierre Smits  wrote:

> Cost more time, more money...
> 
> Pierre Smits
> 
> *ORRTIZ.COM *
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
> 
> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Scott Gray 
> wrote:
> 
>> grep ":ERROR" ofbiz.log is too complicated?  It achieves exactly the same
>> result.
>> 
>> Regards
>> Scott
>> 
>> On 15/09/2014, at 7:41 pm, Jacques Le Roux 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Le 15/09/2014 02:29, Scott Gray a écrit :
> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to
>> monitor what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient
>> mean, beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to
>> simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
 Could you please explain how it is easier?  There are a lot of errors
>> (I would say the majority) where the single log line doesn't give you
>> anywhere near enough information to find out the source and cause.  For
>> those you ultimately always have to go to the ofbiz.log file to understand
>> the context of the error.
>>> 
>>> To early discriminate if it's an important (or very important) error/s
>> that should be addressed ASAP. In other words to define priorities, notably
>> when in development step with a team.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for asking
>>> 
>>> Jacques
>>> 
 
 Regards
 Scott
 
 On 12/09/2014, at 8:35 pm, Jacques Le Roux <
>> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:
 
> Le 12/09/2014 06:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>> On Sep 11, 2014, at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
>> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition.
>> Was there a question for me? I was hoping that this waste of time was
>> finished
>> 
>>> We could, as suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in
>> log4j2.xml and add 2 commented out sections for error.log
>>> 
>> So, you are not happy until you mess up with the log4j2 config file?
>> :-) Apart from you, Jacques, no one complained or asked for modifications
>> to the config file (even after you asked for feedback).
> I could be wrong, but it seems to me Pierre and Nicolas expressed
>> something about it
> 
> I'm not asking to put back the error.log w/o good reasons and I
>> already explained them
> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to
>> monitor what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient
>> mean, beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to
>> simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
> Of course again, I can change the log4j2.xml there as I can schlep a
>> patch in all places I would have to in future :/
> 
> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log
>> in log4j2.xml and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot. Could
>> you explain your reasons please?
> 
> For the other part (comments), I explained why I prefer to have
>> comments in files over having an online documentation, ever if of course
>> having both is not bad (as long as the online doc is updated).
> 
> Jacques
> 
> 
> 
>> Jacopo
>> 
>>> Agreed?
>>> 
>>> Jacques
>>> 
>>> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
 And for whom
 
 Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
 
> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <
>> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:
> 
> 
> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as
>> possible, instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>> It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production
>> site.
>> 
>> On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file
>> contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with
>> context explication of the reason to use it.
>> With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and
>> simple and help uncover some other view.
>> 
>> No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own
>> parameters with my own method to deploy them :)
>> 
>> Nicolas
>> 
> That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to
>> know what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
> 
> Jacques
>> 
 
 
>>> 
>> 
>>

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

Cost more time, more money...

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Scott Gray 
wrote:

> grep ":ERROR" ofbiz.log is too complicated?  It achieves exactly the same
> result.
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On 15/09/2014, at 7:41 pm, Jacques Le Roux 
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Le 15/09/2014 02:29, Scott Gray a écrit :
> >>> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to
> monitor what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient
> mean, beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
> >>> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to
> simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
> >> Could you please explain how it is easier?  There are a lot of errors
> (I would say the majority) where the single log line doesn't give you
> anywhere near enough information to find out the source and cause.  For
> those you ultimately always have to go to the ofbiz.log file to understand
> the context of the error.
> >
> > To early discriminate if it's an important (or very important) error/s
> that should be addressed ASAP. In other words to define priorities, notably
> when in development step with a team.
> >
> > Thanks for asking
> >
> > Jacques
> >
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Scott
> >>
> >> On 12/09/2014, at 8:35 pm, Jacques Le Roux <
> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Le 12/09/2014 06:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>  On Sep 11, 2014, at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:
> 
> > Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition.
>  Was there a question for me? I was hoping that this waste of time was
> finished
> 
> > We could, as suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in
> log4j2.xml and add 2 commented out sections for error.log
> >
>  So, you are not happy until you mess up with the log4j2 config file?
> :-) Apart from you, Jacques, no one complained or asked for modifications
> to the config file (even after you asked for feedback).
> >>> I could be wrong, but it seems to me Pierre and Nicolas expressed
> something about it
> >>>
> >>> I'm not asking to put back the error.log w/o good reasons and I
> already explained them
> >>> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to
> monitor what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient
> mean, beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
> >>> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to
> simply monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
> >>> Of course again, I can change the log4j2.xml there as I can schlep a
> patch in all places I would have to in future :/
> >>>
> >>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log
> in log4j2.xml and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot. Could
> you explain your reasons please?
> >>>
> >>> For the other part (comments), I explained why I prefer to have
> comments in files over having an online documentation, ever if of course
> having both is not bad (as long as the online doc is updated).
> >>>
> >>> Jacques
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>  Jacopo
> 
> > Agreed?
> >
> > Jacques
> >
> > Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
> >> And for whom
> >>
> >> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
> >>
> >>> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <
> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>  Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
> > This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as
> possible, instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>  It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production
> site.
> 
>  On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file
> contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with
> context explication of the reason to use it.
>  With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and
> simple and help uncover some other view.
> 
>  No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own
> parameters with my own method to deploy them :)
> 
>  Nicolas
> 
> >>> That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to
> know what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
> >>>
> >>> Jacques
> 
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

grep ":ERROR" ofbiz.log is too complicated?  It achieves exactly the same 
result.

Regards
Scott

On 15/09/2014, at 7:41 pm, Jacques Le Roux  wrote:

> 
> Le 15/09/2014 02:29, Scott Gray a écrit :
>>> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to monitor 
>>> what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient mean, 
>>> beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
>>> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to simply 
>>> monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
>> Could you please explain how it is easier?  There are a lot of errors (I 
>> would say the majority) where the single log line doesn't give you anywhere 
>> near enough information to find out the source and cause.  For those you 
>> ultimately always have to go to the ofbiz.log file to understand the context 
>> of the error.
> 
> To early discriminate if it's an important (or very important) error/s that 
> should be addressed ASAP. In other words to define priorities, notably when 
> in development step with a team.
> 
> Thanks for asking
> 
> Jacques
> 
>> 
>> Regards
>> Scott
>> 
>> On 12/09/2014, at 8:35 pm, Jacques Le Roux  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Le 12/09/2014 06:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
 On Sep 11, 2014, at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux 
  wrote:
 
> Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition.
 Was there a question for me? I was hoping that this waste of time was 
 finished
 
> We could, as suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in 
> log4j2.xml and add 2 commented out sections for error.log
> 
 So, you are not happy until you mess up with the log4j2 config file? :-) 
 Apart from you, Jacques, no one complained or asked for modifications to 
 the config file (even after you asked for feedback).
>>> I could be wrong, but it seems to me Pierre and Nicolas expressed something 
>>> about it
>>> 
>>> I'm not asking to put back the error.log w/o good reasons and I already 
>>> explained them
>>> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to monitor 
>>> what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient mean, 
>>> beside tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
>>> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to simply 
>>> monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
>>> Of course again, I can change the log4j2.xml there as I can schlep a patch 
>>> in all places I would have to in future :/
>>> 
>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in 
>>> log4j2.xml and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot. Could 
>>> you explain your reasons please?
>>> 
>>> For the other part (comments), I explained why I prefer to have comments in 
>>> files over having an online documentation, ever if of course having both is 
>>> not bad (as long as the online doc is updated).
>>> 
>>> Jacques
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 Jacopo
 
> Agreed?
> 
> Jacques
> 
> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>> And for whom
>> 
>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>> 
>>> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux 
>>>  het volgende geschreven:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
 Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as 
> possible, instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal 
> preferences.
 It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.
 
 On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file 
 contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations 
 with context explication of the reason to use it.
 With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple 
 and help uncover some other view.
 
 No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters 
 with my own method to deploy them :)
 
 Nicolas
 
>>> That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know 
>>> what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
>>> 
>>> Jacques
 
>> 
>> 
>

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

On the basis that log analysis and error identification/reporting costs
money, and the more complex this process is the more it costs.
An error log contains less clutter and is the first point in identification
and triage of (severe) issues in any organisation that has adopted a
methodology for service delivery (e.g. ITIL, ISO/IEC 2, etc),
specifically the error control process (in ITIL)

Without this OOTB more time is spend on:

   - going through the other, more detailed log(s) in the various OFBiz
   systems an organisation might have (e.g. dev, test, prod, etc)
   - getting the error log back and ensuring that it stays in.



Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:29 AM, Scott Gray 
wrote:

> On what basis?
>
> Regards
> Scott
>
> On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits  wrote:
>
> > I support reverting this regression.
> >
> > Pierre Smits
> >
> > *ORRTIZ.COM *
> > Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> > Based Manufacturing, Professional
> > Services and Retail & Trade
> > http://www.orrtiz.com
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
> > jacopo.cappell...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
> >> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in
> >> log4j2.xml
> >>
> >> Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure logging:
> it
> >> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better than the
> >> other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like it but
> me or
> >> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways; since
> no
> >> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back this
> >> confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better than
> other;
> >> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
> >>
> >>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
> >>
> >> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you have been
> >> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning of this
> >> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently) but I
> >> will not start to fight with you.
> >>
> >> Jacopo
> >>
> >>
>
>

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

Le 15/09/2014 02:29, Scott Gray a écrit :

To early discriminate if it's an important (or very important) error/s that should be addressed ASAP. In other words to define priorities, notably
when in development step with a team.

Thanks for asking

Jacques

Regards
Scott

On 12/09/2014, at 8:35 pm, Jacques Le Roux wrote:

Le 12/09/2014 06:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :

On Sep 11, 2014, at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux
wrote:

Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition.

Was there a question for me? I was hoping that this waste of time was finished

We could, as suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml and
add 2 commented out sections for error.log

So, you are not happy until you mess up with the log4j2 config file? :-) Apart
from you, Jacques, no one complained or asked for modifications to the config
file (even after you asked for feedback).

I could be wrong, but it seems to me Pierre and Nicolas expressed something
about it

I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in
log4j2.xml and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot. Could you
explain your reasons please?

For the other part (comments), I explained why I prefer to have comments in
files over having an online documentation, ever if of course having both is not
bad (as long as the online doc is updated).

Jacques

Jacopo

Agreed?

Jacques

Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :

And for whom

Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad

Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux
het volgende geschreven:

Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :

Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :

This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible, instead
of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.

It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.

No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters with my own
method to deploy them :)

Nicolas

That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know what means "as
clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above

Jacques

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

2014-09-14 Thread Scott Gray

On what basis?

Regards
Scott

On 12/09/2014, at 9:44 pm, Pierre Smits  wrote:

> I support reverting this regression.
> 
> Pierre Smits
> 
> *ORRTIZ.COM *
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
> 
> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
> jacopo.cappell...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
>> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in
>> log4j2.xml
>> 
>> Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure logging: it
>> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better than the
>> other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like it but me or
>> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways; since no
>> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back this
>> confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better than other;
>> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
>> 
>>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
>> 
>> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you have been
>> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning of this
>> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently) but I
>> will not start to fight with you.
>> 
>> Jacopo
>> 
>>

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

2014-09-14 Thread Scott Gray

> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to monitor 
> what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient mean, beside 
> tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to simply 
> monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.

Could you please explain how it is easier?  There are a lot of errors (I would 
say the majority) where the single log line doesn't give you anywhere near 
enough information to find out the source and cause.  For those you ultimately 
always have to go to the ofbiz.log file to understand the context of the error.

Regards
Scott

On 12/09/2014, at 8:35 pm, Jacques Le Roux  wrote:

> 
> Le 12/09/2014 06:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>> On Sep 11, 2014, at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition.
>> Was there a question for me? I was hoping that this waste of time was 
>> finished
>> 
>>> We could, as suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml 
>>> and add 2 commented out sections for error.log
>>> 
>> So, you are not happy until you mess up with the log4j2 config file? :-) 
>> Apart from you, Jacques, no one complained or asked for modifications to the 
>> config file (even after you asked for feedback).
> 
> I could be wrong, but it seems to me Pierre and Nicolas expressed something 
> about it
> 
> I'm not asking to put back the error.log w/o good reasons and I already 
> explained them
> If you want an example of its handy use, here is one. I want to monitor 
> what's happening in the trunk demo. Because it's a an efficient mean, beside 
> tests and reviews, to early spot new introduced errors.
> Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to simply 
> monitor an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
> Of course again, I can change the log4j2.xml there as I can schlep a patch in 
> all places I would have to in future :/
> 
> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in 
> log4j2.xml and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot. Could you 
> explain your reasons please?
> 
> For the other part (comments), I explained why I prefer to have comments in 
> files over having an online documentation, ever if of course having both is 
> not bad (as long as the online doc is updated).
> 
> Jacques
> 
> 
> 
>> Jacopo
>> 
>>> Agreed?
>>> 
>>> Jacques
>>> 
>>> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
 And for whom
 
 Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
 
> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux 
>  het volgende geschreven:
> 
> 
> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible, 
>>> instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>> It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.
>> 
>> On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file contains 
>> few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with context 
>> explication of the reason to use it.
>> With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple 
>> and help uncover some other view.
>> 
>> No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters with 
>> my own method to deploy them :)
>> 
>> Nicolas
>> 
> That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know what 
> means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
> 
> Jacques
>> 
>>

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

If consensus can't be reached between the two of you, then a vote amongst
the community members would surely help find the direction we should follow.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:46 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
jacopo.cappell...@gmail.com> wrote:

> ok, if you want, call a vote
>
> Jacopo
>
> On Sep 12, 2014, at 11:44 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Le 12/09/2014 11:29, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
> >>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
> >> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you have
> been trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning of
> this thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently) but
> I will not start to fight with you.
> >
> > You said a mess for sure (several times). The error.log was there
> before. I call that a regression, we have not clearly discussed its
> removing before you did :/ What if one of my processes was based on it?
> >
> > Jacques
> >
> >>
> >> Jacopo
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

2014-09-12 Thread Jacopo Cappellato

ok, if you want, call a vote

Jacopo

On Sep 12, 2014, at 11:44 AM, Jacques Le Roux  
wrote:

> 
> Le 12/09/2014 11:29, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
>> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you have been 
>> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning of this 
>> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently) but I will 
>> not start to fight with you.
> 
> You said a mess for sure (several times). The error.log was there before. I 
> call that a regression, we have not clearly discussed its removing before you 
> did :/ What if one of my processes was based on it?
> 
> Jacques
> 
>> 
>> Jacopo
>> 
>> 
>>

Re: Where is the error.log gone?



Le 12/09/2014 11:29, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :

and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.

I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you have been trying 
to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning of this thread (and 
you did the same in at least another thread recently) but I will not start to 
fight with you.


You said a mess for sure (several times). The error.log was there before. I call that a regression, we have not clearly discussed its removing before 
you did :/ What if one of my processes was based on it?


Jacques



Jacopo

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

I support reverting this regression.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <
jacopo.cappell...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
> > I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in
> log4j2.xml
>
> Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure logging: it
> is a specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better than the
> other 1 million possibilities; you have explained why you like it but me or
> others could find similar arguments for the other millions ways; since no
> one seconded you in your attempt to add the configuration back this
> confirms to me that this specific configuration is not better than other;
> for this reason it should be left out of the trunk.
>
> > and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.
>
> I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you have been
> trying to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning of this
> thread (and you did the same in at least another thread recently) but I
> will not start to fight with you.
>
> Jacopo
>
>

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

2014-09-12 Thread Jacopo Cappellato

On Sep 12, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux  
wrote:

> I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in 
> log4j2.xml

Because it is just one of 1 million possible ways to configure logging: it is a 
specific one on not a generic one and so it is not better than the other 1 
million possibilities; you have explained why you like it but me or others 
could find similar arguments for the other millions ways; since no one seconded 
you in your attempt to add the configuration back this confirms to me that this 
specific configuration is not better than other; for this reason it should be 
left out of the trunk.

> and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot.

I didn't say this and the mail archive can demonstrate it; you have been trying 
to raise the tone of the conversation since the beginning of this thread (and 
you did the same in at least another thread recently) but I will not start to 
fight with you.

Jacopo

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

Le 12/09/2014 06:17, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :

On Sep 11, 2014, at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux
wrote:

Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition.

Was there a question for me? I was hoping that this waste of time was finished

We could, as suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml and
add 2 commented out sections for error.log

So, you are not happy until you mess up with the log4j2 config file? :-) Apart
from you, Jacques, no one complained or asked for modifications to the config
file (even after you asked for feedback).

I could be wrong, but it seems to me Pierre and Nicolas expressed something
about it

Of course I can got there and run zgrep, but it's much easier to simply monitor
an error.log file. The same apply in custom project.
Of course again, I can change the log4j2.xml there as I can schlep a patch in
all places I would have to in future :/

I don't understand why you are so not open to put back the error.log in log4j2.xml and qualify this as a mess and almost myself and idiot. Could you
explain your reasons please?

For the other part (comments), I explained why I prefer to have comments in files over having an online documentation, ever if of course having both
is not bad (as long as the online doc is updated).

Jacques

Jacopo

Agreed?

Jacques

Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :

And for whom

Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad

Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux
het volgende geschreven:

Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :

Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :

This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible, instead
of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.

It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.

No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters with my own
method to deploy them :)

Nicolas

That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know what means "as
clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above

Jacques

Re: Where is the error.log gone?



Le 12/09/2014 09:25, Pierre Smits a écrit :

Interesting observations in that openhub evaluation. Something to think
about!


Though it seems Openhub only refers to comments in Java, we have a lot of 
comments in XML
It was just an example to explain why I'd like to follow Nicolas's suggestion 
and add explaining comments in log4j2.xml

Jacques



Didn't know it existed. How OFBiz is perceived by others should be part of
the considerations regarding future roadmaps and (short term) plans.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 9:18 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:


The point with embedded documentation (in OOTB files) is, as long as it's
not in often changed files (where you have to be sure the documentation is
well maintained), you have it up to date at hand, without having to search
online which might be not always available (like Git is now often preferred
over svn for this reason)

And morevoer I don't see why we would not update embedded documentation,
it's as important as code, it's actually part of it. This reflects for
instance in project evaluation like does https://www.openhub.net/p/
Apache-OFBiz/factoids#FactoidCommentsLow

But who cares anyway? :/ It seems nobody got the importance and value of
error.log in the dev community, I really wonder about that!

Jacques

Le 12/09/2014 09:03, Pierre Smits a écrit :


That, or otherwise improve the OFBiz documentation regarding logging.
Referring to documentation on other sites is not enough.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *

Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:

  Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition. We could, as

suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml and add 2
commented out sections for error.log

Agreed?

Jacques

Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :

   And for whom


Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad

   Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <


jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:


Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :

  Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :

  This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as

possible,
instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.

  It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production

site.

On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file
contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations
with
context explication of the reason to use it.
With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple
and help uncover some other view.

No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters
with my own method to deploy them :)

Nicolas

   That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know


what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above

Jacques

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

Interesting observations in that openhub evaluation. Something to think
about!

Didn't know it existed. How OFBiz is perceived by others should be part of
the considerations regarding future roadmaps and (short term) plans.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 9:18 AM, Jacques Le Roux <
jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:

> The point with embedded documentation (in OOTB files) is, as long as it's
> not in often changed files (where you have to be sure the documentation is
> well maintained), you have it up to date at hand, without having to search
> online which might be not always available (like Git is now often preferred
> over svn for this reason)
>
> And morevoer I don't see why we would not update embedded documentation,
> it's as important as code, it's actually part of it. This reflects for
> instance in project evaluation like does https://www.openhub.net/p/
> Apache-OFBiz/factoids#FactoidCommentsLow
>
> But who cares anyway? :/ It seems nobody got the importance and value of
> error.log in the dev community, I really wonder about that!
>
> Jacques
>
> Le 12/09/2014 09:03, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>
>> That, or otherwise improve the OFBiz documentation regarding logging.
>> Referring to documentation on other sites is not enough.
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *ORRTIZ.COM *
>>
>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail & Trade
>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
>> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition. We could, as
>>> suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml and add 2
>>> commented out sections for error.log
>>>
>>> Agreed?
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>>>
>>>   And for whom
>>>
 Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad

   Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <

> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:
>
>
> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>
>  Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>
>>  This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as
>>> possible,
>>> instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>>>
>>>  It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production
>> site.
>>
>> On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file
>> contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations
>> with
>> context explication of the reason to use it.
>> With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple
>> and help uncover some other view.
>>
>> No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters
>> with my own method to deploy them :)
>>
>> Nicolas
>>
>>   That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know
>>
> what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
>
> Jacques
>
>

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

The point with embedded documentation (in OOTB files) is, as long as it's not in often changed files (where you have to be sure the documentation is 
well maintained), you have it up to date at hand, without having to search online which might be not always available (like Git is now often preferred 
over svn for this reason)


And morevoer I don't see why we would not update embedded documentation, it's as important as code, it's actually part of it. This reflects for 
instance in project evaluation like does https://www.openhub.net/p/Apache-OFBiz/factoids#FactoidCommentsLow


But who cares anyway? :/ It seems nobody got the importance and value of 
error.log in the dev community, I really wonder about that!

Jacques

Le 12/09/2014 09:03, Pierre Smits a écrit :

That, or otherwise improve the OFBiz documentation regarding logging.
Referring to documentation on other sites is not enough.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:


Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition. We could, as
suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml and add 2
commented out sections for error.log

Agreed?

Jacques

Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :

  And for whom

Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad

  Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <

jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:


Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :


Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :


This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible,
instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.


It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.

On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file
contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with
context explication of the reason to use it.
With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple
and help uncover some other view.

No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters
with my own method to deploy them :)

Nicolas

  That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know

what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above

Jacques

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

But a JIRA issue of the improvement type with a patch might also do the
trick. Users can then decide whether they leave it as is, or implement the
patch and have more insight.

It helps the user.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 9:03 AM, Pierre Smits 
wrote:

> That, or otherwise improve the OFBiz documentation regarding logging.
> Referring to documentation on other sites is not enough.
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM *
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
>> Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition. We could, as
>> suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml and add 2
>> commented out sections for error.log
>>
>> Agreed?
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>>
>>  And for whom
>>>
>>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>>>
>>>  Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <
 jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:


 Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :

> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>
>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as
>> possible, instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal 
>> preferences.
>>
> It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.
>
> On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file
> contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with
> context explication of the reason to use it.
> With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple
> and help uncover some other view.
>
> No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters
> with my own method to deploy them :)
>
> Nicolas
>
>  That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know
 what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above

 Jacques

>>>
>>>
>

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

2014-09-12 Thread Jacopo Cappellato

On Sep 12, 2014, at 9:03 AM, Pierre Smits  wrote:

> That, or otherwise improve the OFBiz documentation regarding logging.

Yes, I like this option!

Jacopo

> Referring to documentation on other sites is not enough.
> 
> Pierre Smits
> 
> *ORRTIZ.COM *
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
> 
> On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:
> 
>> Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition. We could, as
>> suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml and add 2
>> commented out sections for error.log
>> 
>> Agreed?
>> 
>> Jacques
>> 
>> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>> 
>> And for whom
>>> 
>>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>>> 
>>> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <
 jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:
 
 
 Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
 
> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
> 
>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible,
>> instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>> 
> It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.
> 
> On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file
> contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with
> context explication of the reason to use it.
> With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple
> and help uncover some other view.
> 
> No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters
> with my own method to deploy them :)
> 
> Nicolas
> 
> That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know
 what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
 
 Jacques
 
>>> 
>>>

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

That, or otherwise improve the OFBiz documentation regarding logging.
Referring to documentation on other sites is not enough.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote:

> Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition. We could, as
> suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml and add 2
> commented out sections for error.log
>
> Agreed?
>
> Jacques
>
> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>
>  And for whom
>>
>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>>
>>  Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux <
>>> jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> het volgende geschreven:
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>>>
 Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :

> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible,
> instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>
 It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.

 On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file
 contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with
 context explication of the reason to use it.
 With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple
 and help uncover some other view.

 No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters
 with my own method to deploy them :)

 Nicolas

  That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know
>>> what means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>
>>

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

2014-09-11 Thread Jacopo Cappellato

On Sep 11, 2014, at 9:40 PM, Jacques Le Roux  
wrote:

> Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition.

Was there a question for me? I was hoping that this waste of time was finished

> We could, as suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml 
> and add 2 commented out sections for error.log
> 

So, you are not happy until you mess up with the log4j2 config file? :-) Apart 
from you, Jacques, no one complained or asked for modifications to the config 
file (even after you asked for feedback).

Jacopo

> Agreed?
> 
> Jacques
> 
> Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>> And for whom
>> 
>> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
>> 
>>> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux 
>>>  het volgende geschreven:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
 Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible, 
> instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
 It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.

 On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file contains 
 few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with context 
 explication of the reason to use it.
 With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple and 
 help uncover some other view.

 No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters with 
 my own method to deploy them :)

 Nicolas

>>> That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know what 
>>> means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
>>> 
>>> Jacques
>>

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

2014-09-11 Thread Jacques Le Roux

Since Jacopo did not answer, here is my proposition. We could, as suggested Nicolas, add some educational comments in log4j2.xml and add 2 commented 
out sections for error.log


Agreed?

Jacques

Le 09/09/2014 15:10, Pierre Smits a écrit :

And for whom

Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad


Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux  
het volgende geschreven:


Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :

Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :

This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible, instead 
of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.

It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.

On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file contains few 
enable element but so mostly commented configurations with context explication 
of the reason to use it.
With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple and help 
uncover some other view.

No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters with my own 
method to deploy them :)

Nicolas


That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know what means "as 
clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above

Jacques

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

2014-09-09 Thread Pierre Smits

And for whom

Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad

> Op 9 sep. 2014 om 14:23 heeft Jacques Le Roux  
> het volgende geschreven:
> 
> 
> Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :
>> Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible, 
>>> instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>> It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.
>> 
>> On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file contains few 
>> enable element but so mostly commented configurations with context 
>> explication of the reason to use it.
>> With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple and 
>> help uncover some other view.
>> 
>> No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters with my 
>> own method to deploy them :)
>> 
>> Nicolas
>> 
> 
> That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know what 
> means "as clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above
> 
> Jacques

Re: Where is the error.log gone?



Le 09/09/2014 13:26, Nicolas Malin a écrit :

Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :

This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible, instead 
of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.

It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.

On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file contains few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with context 
explication of the reason to use it.

With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple and help 
uncover some other view.

No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters with my own 
method to deploy them :)

Nicolas



That's a very interesting point Nicolas. The problem is now to know what means "as 
clean as possible" in Jacopo's sentence above

Jacques

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

2014-09-09 Thread Nicolas Malin


Le 09/09/2014 12:41, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :

This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible, instead 
of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.

It's clear and good to simplify the configuration on production site.

On some other projet (mostly on debian ;) ), configuration file contains 
few enable element but so mostly commented configurations with context 
explication of the reason to use it.
With a good text editor (notepad no match) it's also clear and simple 
and help uncover some other view.


No I don't use trunk for my configuration, I have my own parameters with 
my own method to deploy them :)


Nicolas

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

Le 09/09/2014 11:42, Adrian Crum a écrit :

Jacques,

You still are not understanding what you are saying, and you are not
understanding our replies.

Thanks for clearing my brain :D

You are saying:

1. You want to change log settings because it benefits Jacques.
2. You want to change ignore settings because it benefits Jacques.

Jacopo and I are saying:

1. Every developer wants different log settings, so they are free to modify
them on their local copy.
2. Every developer uses different tools and shortcuts, so they are free to add
them to their local copy.
3. Since every developer is different, we should leave #1 and #2 out of the
trunk.

1) Seriously, *we had* the error.log before and I see no serious reasons and arguments in Jacopo's, Scott's and your answers to *remove it*. I find it
particularly handy when I want to quickly know the current issues (often minors) in a custom deployment. Without having to grep and such, just read a
short plain text file with all the errors collected in, no needs to look backward in zip files, etc.

2) Thank you for your permission of using my tools on my machine :)

Jacques

Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 9/9/2014 10:09 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:

My answer was
>What I mean is I don't see how and why (re-)adding error.log in
log4j2.xml will make it messy

I just added a point about performance issue because I knew it would be
the next argument on the table. Adding few lines in log4j2.xml does not
stand as an argument to me.

Jacques

Le 09/09/2014 10:55, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :

Jacques,

you are clearly not reading what I and others wrote.

Jacopo

On Sep 9, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Jacques Le Roux
wrote:

Le 09/09/2014 10:12, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :

On Sep 9, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Jacques Le Roux
wrote:

I understand you want to keep things as clean as possible, but are
we not going too far in our slimdown crusade?

This is ridiculous, Jacques. This is not about the slimdown
(crusade?), this ended up months ago. This is all about writing and
maintaining good, well-crafted artifacts and code. The current OFBiz
trunk is still a great mess and I am surprised (and a bit concerned)
that you think we are going too far in the attempt to keep things
clean.

What I mean is I don't see how and why (re-)adding error.log in
log4j2.xml will make it messy, really are we not splitting hairs here?
If you told me, "this will slow down and the system" or something
like that I could understand. But I explained why it should not,
except if you have an extremely big issue and then this big issue
would be your concern, not the error.log which would only be the
symptom.

Jacopo

Re: Where is the error.log gone?


On Sep 9, 2014, at 12:54 PM, Pierre Smits  wrote:

> I don't think that we should regard the committer of this project as the
> default user of OFBiz. With respect to evaluating logs, it most often is
> the system administrator. Again, think of the average user.
> 

Exactly: we shouldn't try to step in sys admin's shoes by trying to imagine and 
pre-configure OFBiz.
Keep it as simple as possible without pretending to understand other's needs.

Jacopo

> We also have to consider that not all development effort takes place in
> this project, but also at user sites. Would we help those organisations and
> their staff by leaving it out and having them take extra steps to get it in
> again?
> 
> If you can't find consensus amongst your selfs, ask the community.
> 
> Pierre Smits
> 
> *ORRTIZ.COM *
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
> 
> On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Jacopo Cappellato <
> jacopo.cappell...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Sep 9, 2014, at 12:24 PM, Pierre Smits  wrote:
>> 
>>> In stead of opposing each other, find consensus for the good of the
>> project
>>> and its community.
>> 
>> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible,
>> instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>> 
>> Jacopo

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

2014-09-09 Thread Pierre Smits

I don't think that we should regard the committer of this project as the
default user of OFBiz. With respect to evaluating logs, it most often is
the system administrator. Again, think of the average user.

We also have to consider that not all development effort takes place in
this project, but also at user sites. Would we help those organisations and
their staff by leaving it out and having them take extra steps to get it in
again?

If you can't find consensus amongst your selfs, ask the community.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Jacopo Cappellato <
jacopo.cappell...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sep 9, 2014, at 12:24 PM, Pierre Smits  wrote:
>
> > In stead of opposing each other, find consensus for the good of the
> project
> > and its community.
>
> This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible,
> instead of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.
>
> Jacopo

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

On Sep 9, 2014, at 12:24 PM, Pierre Smits  wrote:

> In stead of opposing each other, find consensus for the good of the project
> and its community.

This is the main reason the trunk should be kept as clean as possible, instead 
of changing stuff to fit committers' personal preferences.

Jacopo

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

2014-09-09 Thread Pierre Smits

Ok... Viewpoints are made clear.

But ask yourself this:

   - What is better for the community, leaving it in or leaving it out?
   Think of the default user, not of the exeption
   - How much will it affect performance when left in or out?

In stead of opposing each other, find consensus for the good of the project
and its community.

Pierre Smits

*ORRTIZ.COM *
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com

On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 11:42 AM, Adrian Crum <
adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com> wrote:

> Jacques,
>
> You still are not understanding what you are saying, and you are not
> understanding our replies.
>
> You are saying:
>
> 1. You want to change log settings because it benefits Jacques.
> 2. You want to change ignore settings because it benefits Jacques.
>
> Jacopo and I are saying:
>
> 1. Every developer wants different log settings, so they are free to
> modify them on their local copy.
> 2. Every developer uses different tools and shortcuts, so they are free to
> add them to their local copy.
> 3. Since every developer is different, we should leave #1 and #2 out of
> the trunk.
>
> Adrian Crum
> Sandglass Software
> www.sandglass-software.com
>
> On 9/9/2014 10:09 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>
>> My answer was
>>  >What I mean is I don't see how and why (re-)adding error.log in
>> log4j2.xml will make it messy
>>
>> I just added a point about performance issue because I knew it would be
>> the next argument on the table. Adding few lines in log4j2.xml does not
>> stand as an argument to me.
>>
>> Jacques
>>
>> Le 09/09/2014 10:55, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>>
>>> Jacques,
>>>
>>> you are clearly not reading what I and others wrote.
>>>
>>> Jacopo
>>>
>>> On Sep 9, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Jacques Le Roux
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>  Le 09/09/2014 10:12, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :

> On Sep 9, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Jacques Le Roux
>  wrote:
>
>  I understand you want to keep things as clean as possible, but are
>> we not going too far in our slimdown crusade?
>>
> This is ridiculous, Jacques. This is not about the slimdown
> (crusade?), this ended up months ago. This is all about writing and
> maintaining good, well-crafted artifacts and code. The current OFBiz
> trunk is still a great mess and I am surprised (and a bit concerned)
> that you think we are going too far in the attempt to keep things
> clean.
>
 What I mean is I don't see how and why (re-)adding error.log in
 log4j2.xml will make it messy, really are we not splitting hairs here?
 If you told me, "this will slow down and the system" or something
 like that I could understand. But I explained why it should not,
 except if you have an extremely big issue and then this big issue
 would be your concern, not the error.log which would only be the
 symptom.

  Jacopo
>
>
>
>
>>>
>>>

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

2014-09-09 Thread Adrian Crum


Jacques,

You still are not understanding what you are saying, and you are not 
understanding our replies.


You are saying:

1. You want to change log settings because it benefits Jacques.
2. You want to change ignore settings because it benefits Jacques.

Jacopo and I are saying:

1. Every developer wants different log settings, so they are free to 
modify them on their local copy.
2. Every developer uses different tools and shortcuts, so they are free 
to add them to their local copy.
3. Since every developer is different, we should leave #1 and #2 out of 
the trunk.


Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 9/9/2014 10:09 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:

My answer was
 >What I mean is I don't see how and why (re-)adding error.log in
log4j2.xml will make it messy

I just added a point about performance issue because I knew it would be
the next argument on the table. Adding few lines in log4j2.xml does not
stand as an argument to me.

Jacques

Le 09/09/2014 10:55, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :

Jacques,

you are clearly not reading what I and others wrote.

Jacopo

On Sep 9, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Jacques Le Roux
 wrote:


Le 09/09/2014 10:12, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :

On Sep 9, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Jacques Le Roux
 wrote:


I understand you want to keep things as clean as possible, but are
we not going too far in our slimdown crusade?

This is ridiculous, Jacques. This is not about the slimdown
(crusade?), this ended up months ago. This is all about writing and
maintaining good, well-crafted artifacts and code. The current OFBiz
trunk is still a great mess and I am surprised (and a bit concerned)
that you think we are going too far in the attempt to keep things
clean.

What I mean is I don't see how and why (re-)adding error.log in
log4j2.xml will make it messy, really are we not splitting hairs here?
If you told me, "this will slow down and the system" or something
like that I could understand. But I explained why it should not,
except if you have an extremely big issue and then this big issue
would be your concern, not the error.log which would only be the
symptom.


Jacopo

Re: Where is the error.log gone?


My answer was
>What I mean is I don't see how and why (re-)adding error.log in log4j2.xml 
will make it messy

I just added a point about performance issue because I knew it would be the next argument on the table. Adding few lines in log4j2.xml does not stand 
as an argument to me.


Jacques

Le 09/09/2014 10:55, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :

Jacques,

you are clearly not reading what I and others wrote.

Jacopo

On Sep 9, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Jacques Le Roux  
wrote:


Le 09/09/2014 10:12, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :

On Sep 9, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Jacques Le Roux  
wrote:


I understand you want to keep things as clean as possible, but are we not going 
too far in our slimdown crusade?

This is ridiculous, Jacques. This is not about the slimdown (crusade?), this 
ended up months ago. This is all about writing and maintaining good, 
well-crafted artifacts and code. The current OFBiz trunk is still a great mess 
and I am surprised (and a bit concerned) that you think we are going too far in 
the attempt to keep things clean.

What I mean is I don't see how and why (re-)adding error.log in log4j2.xml will 
make it messy, really are we not splitting hairs here?
If you told me, "this will slow down and the system" or something like that I 
could understand. But I explained why it should not, except if you have an extremely big 
issue and then this big issue would be your concern, not the error.log which would only 
be the symptom.


Jacopo

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

Jacques,

you are clearly not reading what I and others wrote.

Jacopo

On Sep 9, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Jacques Le Roux  
wrote:

> 
> Le 09/09/2014 10:12, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :
>> On Sep 9, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Jacques Le Roux  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I understand you want to keep things as clean as possible, but are we not 
>>> going too far in our slimdown crusade?
>> This is ridiculous, Jacques. This is not about the slimdown (crusade?), this 
>> ended up months ago. This is all about writing and maintaining good, 
>> well-crafted artifacts and code. The current OFBiz trunk is still a great 
>> mess and I am surprised (and a bit concerned) that you think we are going 
>> too far in the attempt to keep things clean.
> 
> What I mean is I don't see how and why (re-)adding error.log in log4j2.xml 
> will make it messy, really are we not splitting hairs here?
> If you told me, "this will slow down and the system" or something like that I 
> could understand. But I explained why it should not, except if you have an 
> extremely big issue and then this big issue would be your concern, not the 
> error.log which would only be the symptom.
> 
>> 
>> Jacopo
>> 
>> 
>>

Re: Where is the error.log gone?



Le 09/09/2014 10:27, Adrian Crum a écrit :
Plus, that ignore setting commit benefits only one person - Jacques. That concerns me because it appears Jacques considers the trunk to be his 
personal project.


I surely not, it's only that Git is missing the ignore-on-commit svn feature and I dislike having to uncheck, take care of it each time I need to 
commit :/


If you guys can't stand having desktop.ini in .gitignore file (it's a property in svn) I willl remove them, but seriously this is all completely 
ridiculous!


Jacques



Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 9/9/2014 9:12 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:

On Sep 9, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Jacques Le Roux  
wrote:


I understand you want to keep things as clean as possible, but are we not going 
too far in our slimdown crusade?


This is ridiculous, Jacques. This is not about the slimdown (crusade?), this ended up months ago. This is all about writing and maintaining good, 
well-crafted artifacts and code. The current OFBiz trunk is still a great mess and I am surprised (and a bit concerned) that you think we are going 
too far in the attempt to keep things clean.


Jacopo

Re: Where is the error.log gone?



Le 09/09/2014 10:12, Jacopo Cappellato a écrit :

On Sep 9, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Jacques Le Roux  
wrote:


I understand you want to keep things as clean as possible, but are we not going 
too far in our slimdown crusade?

This is ridiculous, Jacques. This is not about the slimdown (crusade?), this 
ended up months ago. This is all about writing and maintaining good, 
well-crafted artifacts and code. The current OFBiz trunk is still a great mess 
and I am surprised (and a bit concerned) that you think we are going too far in 
the attempt to keep things clean.


What I mean is I don't see how and why (re-)adding error.log in log4j2.xml will 
make it messy, really are we not splitting hairs here?
If you told me, "this will slow down and the system" or something like that I could understand. But I explained why it should not, except if you have 
an extremely big issue and then this big issue would be your concern, not the error.log which would only be the symptom.




Jacopo

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

2014-09-09 Thread Adrian Crum

Plus, that ignore setting commit benefits only one person - Jacques. 
That concerns me because it appears Jacques considers the trunk to be 
his personal project.


Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 9/9/2014 9:12 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:

On Sep 9, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Jacques Le Roux  
wrote:


I understand you want to keep things as clean as possible, but are we not going 
too far in our slimdown crusade?


This is ridiculous, Jacques. This is not about the slimdown (crusade?), this 
ended up months ago. This is all about writing and maintaining good, 
well-crafted artifacts and code. The current OFBiz trunk is still a great mess 
and I am surprised (and a bit concerned) that you think we are going too far in 
the attempt to keep things clean.

Jacopo

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

On Sep 9, 2014, at 9:52 AM, Jacques Le Roux  
wrote:

> I understand you want to keep things as clean as possible, but are we not 
> going too far in our slimdown crusade?

This is ridiculous, Jacques. This is not about the slimdown (crusade?), this 
ended up months ago. This is all about writing and maintaining good, 
well-crafted artifacts and code. The current OFBiz trunk is still a great mess 
and I am surprised (and a bit concerned) that you think we are going too far in 
the attempt to keep things clean.

Jacopo

Re: Where is the error.log gone?

Yes, I was maybe abusing there indeed. But note that I did not add a tool in the repo, only added something to ignore it. This should be transparent
to everybody.

Like for the desktop.ini entry in the .*ignore files I don't see a reason to not add a readymade patch for console.log. Again, it would be transparent
to everybody, but convenient for those who want it.

I understand you want to keep things as clean as possible, but are we not going
too far in our slimdown crusade?

Now about the error.log, I will re-add it. I think it makes sense and is not
really complicating log4j2.xml.

Jacques

Le 09/09/2014 08:30, Adrian Crum a écrit :

Jacopo,

Thank you for mentioning the .svnignore and .gitignore commit - that bothers me too. We should be ignoring things in the repo, not our personal
modifications.

Adrian Crum
Sandglass Software
www.sandglass-software.com

On 9/9/2014 7:20 AM, Jacopo Cappellato wrote:

On Sep 9, 2014, at 7:08 AM, Jacques Le Roux
wrote:

[...] On the other hand I can agree that having a lot of logs written can slow down the system. And I guess that's the reason why Jacopo and you
are against multiplying them. [...]

This is not what I wrote in my previous email; quoting here for your
convenience:

"The only reason is to keep the default configuration as simple, generic and minimal as possible. As you said, it is very easy for each developer
to customize to fit it to his/her own preferences."

I believe, contrary to console.log, simply re-adding error should not have an important impact in most circumstances, hopefully you have not that
much error in your instance.

The idea is I don't want to have to manually re-add it each time I want it. For console.log these cases are less frequent, so doing it by hand
then will not be a problem. I will even maybe add a patch for console.log in the repo, ready to use...

Please, don't do this: let's all try to keep the public repo as clean as possible without adding stuff to facilitate our personal workflow; for
example, the commit you did yesterday to .svnignore and .gitignore is really ugly (your commit message was "I found convenient to have an icon in
Windows File explorer for my local OFBiz checkouts, must ignore it"): I didn't comment because I don't want to be too peaky but in my opinion it is
a symptom of a wrong concept of the repository. I have plenty of tools and scripts in my local environment that are useful to me but not a good fit
for the project and I don't put them in the repository just because it will be easier for me to find them there every time I do a checkout.

Jacopo

Re: Where is the error.log gone?