Re: [steering-discuss] Re: confcall tomorrow
Hi all! Am Freitag, den 28.10.2011, 16:17 +0100 schrieb Charles-H. Schulz: Le Fri, 28 Oct 2011 12:45:38 +0200, Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com a écrit : On 10/28/2011 12:05 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote: tomorrow, at 1400 UTC, the next conference call takes place. Right now, we are in a transition phase from the Steering Committee to the Board of Directors, so I would like to explicitly invite those who are new with us to join this call. It would be ideal if we had most SC and BoD members to hand over the duties. And I just got the news that a family reunion I thought would start around 6:30 would actually start much earlier, around 15:30. So I won't be available... this sucks. I'll do better next time. Same for me ... most probably, I'll still be on the road tomorrow. If possible (but chances are low), I'll join ... however, my best wishes to the new BoD members. And thanks to the recent SC for handling stuff during this exciting first year :-) Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Wednesday's call
Hi Florian, thanks for the ping ... I'll have to check my schedule at work; if I remember correctly, I do have another call to the US at the same time. At the moment, there is only the donation button for nonprofits that might need a quorum. Is that right - or is this just a discussion? Cheers, Christoph Am Montag, den 03.10.2011, 09:02 +0200 schrieb Florian Effenberger: Hello, I might not be able to join Wednesday's call until the end - I have a meeting at 1700 UTC, and the call starts at 1600 UTC. In case we have the need for a quorum, I'd like to ask my deputy Christoph Noack to jump in if possible. Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Reminder: SC call tomorrow
Hi Florian, I won't be available due to a small family ride :-) Wish you all a successful meeting! Cheers, Christoph Am Freitag, den 30.09.2011, 13:59 +0200 schrieb Florian Effenberger: Hello, this is a short reminder that tomorrow, 1400 UTC, we will have our next SC call. Looking forward to hearing you, Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy
Hi Tom, all! A quick note ... mis-using the steering-discuss being an SC deputy. Am Mittwoch, den 10.08.2011, 10:35 +0100 schrieb Tom Davies: Sounds good to me but i'm curious about the Branding Team's thoughts on this. Italo? I'm not Italo, but I'm one of those who (with Bernhard, Nik, Ivan, ...) developed the today's branding. Personally, I would be happy if we could ship the non-tagline logo - and add the tagline on demand. This will make things more simple and even more visually attractive. When we worked on the motif design, Nik already made a draft how this could look like: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/b/b3/ScatterInContext_bunch.jpg So +1 to the proposal. One thing that - then - needs to be addressed is the todays tagline logo. Later this year, I'd like to propose a small revision to make non-tagline and tagline logo more consistent. Cheers, Christoph From: Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org Sent: Wed, 10 August, 2011 9:25:05 Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] addition to trademark policy Hi, Andre Schnabel wrote on 2011-08-08 13:17: ... our default logos in the source tree use the TDF tagline (at least this was when I last did a build from source), but the tagged logo should be used for instance on .. software builds compiled by the Document Foundation. Imho quite easy to resolve: use the community logos per default for builds from source. Enable the Logo with TDF tagline on build time and tell people to use this only when doing builds that are supposed to be distributed via TDF resources. that indeed sounds like a senseful idea. What do others think? -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: recent LibreOffice survey: missed opporunities
Hi Derrick! Am Dienstag, den 09.08.2011, 23:31 -0400 schrieb Anthropornis Nordenskjoldi: Wasn't sure if I could email screenshots, so here are links to them instead. The shelf tags: http://i.imgur.com/mynbl.png The order list: http://i.imgur.com/74nJP.png Thanks - indeed, attachments are currently disabled, but the brave admins are working hard to make those available via a separate storage system (in a few weeks/months). On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 11:04 PM, Anthropornis Nordenskjoldi anthropor...@gmail.com wrote: I'm a new subscriber, and if this is not the correct place to post my thoughts, please forgive and redirect me. I think it fits well for the first step, since general matters are discussed here. Maybe the Design mailing list would also be okay - but lets simply talk about your request. Thank you by the way, for your kind and extensive mail :-) [...] So I don't wish for developers to misinterpret the results of the rather simplistic survey, as some situations have additional meaning that cannot be expressed in such fairly boolean questions. True - so I'd like to address this by looking at it from different angels. First, the survey was organized via some friends providing professional services for stuff like that - this time being part of the LibreOffice design team. Such surveys itself do have certain issues - for example: * the number of questions people might answer without getting bothered (it seems that you are one of those guys who provide detailed feedback, but that's not usual) * the effort to analyze such a survey (thus, closed questions help here) The usual idea is to gain knowledge ... sometimes where we lack knowledge. For example, when we did the User Feedback (feature usage statistics) at OpenOffice.org, we always told people that an unused feature might be a feature thats a) not needed, or b) is too complicated, or c) is indiscoverable. Consequently, if the data reveals such stuff, then its time to consider this in one of the next surveys. One survey will never be able to gain full-depth knowledge. So, be assured, we won't stop ;-) Next, the survey was done to get insights in our users ... that doesn't mean that (at the moment) any developer takes more or even less care of the code he is interested in. Thus, if (volunteer) developers are interested in Base, they won't stop to improve the software :-))) Moreover, I went into the survey hoping I would be able to suggest my most desired feature to have further developed. Since I couldn't do that in the survey, I hoped I might be able to do it here. And it is on the subject of mail merges, or more broadly, just merges (I don't actually use this feature in Microsoft Word for anything mailing related). In the past (with OpenOffice), I've done basic web searches to find out how to replace MS Word (2003 edition) for the mail merges I do, but I've never come across any straightforward way to do this with LibreOffice. My request would be for the LibreOffice team to make this as painless as it is in MS Word 2003, in terms of both the design and implementation of the feature in the software, as well as providing a canonical and straightforward tutorial on how to use the improved feature. Ideally the latter would become the FIRST result in searching on any search engine, and be kept UP TO DATE. Let attach two screenshots to show how I use MS Word mail merge. In both cases the fields are being populated via an ODBC connection to a remote MySQL database. In the first case, Avery labels are populated to become shelf tags in a retail store. That means one 8x10 sheet of labels is not a full page of the same label, but each label is different, and if necessary, a second or even third page of labels is generated until all the rows selected from the database are rendered into Avery labels. In the second case, a weekly order list is generated in what looks like a datasheet view in MS Access or an Excel tabular format. Again, this spills over into as many pages as needed, but each row of the merged table is different. None of this is address book type fare, or full sheets of the same thing. It was very easy for me to do in MS Word, but I haven't a clue how to do these use cases in LibreOffice Writer. It's been easier to keep MS Word around, so for the time being I've given up. For all I know it is absurdly easy to do in LibreOffice, but this is not at all discoverable for me, in either the software UI, or in documentation. To be honest, I never used mail-merge that much ... but I know that Jacqueline has been collecting such issues since years. Thus, I'd like to simply forward that information to her - I hope she'll find it helpful for future activities. So, Derrick, thanks for your mail - and enjoy your day! Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems?
Re: [steering-discuss] decision on screenshots
Hi Florian, sorry if this turns out to be a discussion (here) again, but ... Am Sonntag, den 07.08.2011, 13:12 +0200 schrieb Florian Effenberger: Hi Christoph, Christoph Noack wrote on 2011-08-06 14:57: Screenshots for documentation, website and marketing should preferably be taken on GNU/Linux, but may also be taken on any other operating system. The Steering Committee acknowledges that there is a small legal risk involved for screenshots on non-free operating systems, but the risk is deemed low. The Steering Committee recommends a consistent visual appearance (e.g. theming) for the screenshots taken on the selected operating system. It is up to the LibreOffice community how to achieve that consistency. thanks for that! Honestly, I would leave out that last paragraph. This is something indeed the teams should decide, so I am not in favor of having that mentioned in an official SC decision. Although I also think that the paragraph I've proposed looks weird from the SC point-of-view, let's try it the other way round: Is the currently proposed SC decision (the first two paragraphs) helpful for the community and the project? At least it says that each individual, all of the teams are free in their decision - which is somehow good. But: when I've summarized the issue some mails ago, I got aware that screenshots are taken across all the teams (e.g. website, marketing, documentation, development). Screenshots and videos heavily influence how we (as a project) are perceived (by e.g. customers). In this case, some (balanced) recommendation by the SC might provide guidance across the teams. Unfortunately, decisions within the individual teams are hard, across the teams close to impossible :-) Consequently, I think that the two parts: decision (use any OS) and _recommendation_ (strive for some consistency, but decide yourself how to do that) adds value in this case. Let's try to keep the SC decisions as easy as possible. We could also mention that the resolution, the icon sets etc. should be decided by the teams, but I think this is out of scope for any SC decision True. So, would you object to leave out the third paragraph? :-) At least not hard - but please keep in mind that the originally proposed SC decision causes more uncertainty and inhomogeneity than we had before. So, I think that's the last pro active mail on this topic from my side (I already can hear some relief *G*). Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[steering-discuss] SC Meeting: Minutes, 2011-08-06
Hi all, the today's meeting was (due to only few attendees, unfortunately) a very short one - here are the meeting minutes: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/Steering_Committee_Meetings#Minutes_2011-08-06 SC members: Voting on the both proposals by Florian (logo/trademark policy, Windows screenshots) shall be done on the sc-discuss mailing list. Meeting Attendees: Please quickly check the meeting minutes (rather a formal request). Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Reminder: SC call this Saturday
Hi Florian, all! Am Donnerstag, den 04.08.2011, 20:55 +0200 schrieb Florian Effenberger: Hello, this is just a quick reminder that the next steering committee call is this Saturday, 1400 UTC. Thanks! :-) Please feel free to add your agenda items to the wiki: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/Steering_Committee_Meetings @Christoph: I might be on the road on Saturday, so would you be able to jump in as my deputy in case I cannot make it? Yep, and in the ideal case you'll be able to take over 14:30 UTC, since I have to leave then :-\ So if we can manage the important decisions within 30 mins, everything is fine (for me). Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Please approve Simon Phipps as election secretary
Am Dienstag, den 19.07.2011, 16:39 +0200 schrieb Andre Schnabel: Hi, this was briefly discussed in our last SC-Call and in the following MC-meeting. To ease the work of the current MC and help with the BoD elections (help with communication, organization and overseeing the election process), we would like to name Simon Phipps as election secretary for our next BoD elections. MC will still be responsible to prepare and oversee the elections, but Simon will do most of the communication on the topic. So I'd ask each SC member / deputy to approve this proposal. +1 (but both members I'm deputy-ing already agreed) Thanks to Simon for his offer to make things run smoother for the whole community - that's great! Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] wording on TDF website
Hi Florian! Am Montag, den 11.07.2011, 16:10 +0200 schrieb Florian Effenberger: Hello, I received some complaints that the wording on the TDF website (http://www.documentfoundation.org) is not accurate. While the meta tag correctly states The Document Foundation has the mission of facilitating the evolution of the LibreOffice Community into a new, open, independent, and meritocratic organization over the next few months, the website itself says that TDF is already a foundation, which is not totally correct. I therefore propose we change that text slightly, until we are legally established. Any proposals? Shall we just remove the first bullet point for the moment? Well, I remember some discussions when we worked on the mission statement - the difficulty to distinguish between the legally established foundation and the group/community/activity working towards that goal. So my proposals ... If we state Foundation (without The and Foundation) let's state activity - I'd like to keep this first bullet point. Its our history :-) If we say The Document Foundation, how about saying The Document Foundation group or The Document Foundation activity. I know the latter might sound a bit passive, but it might suite our needs until the legal status is established. Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Poll Daily-Builds usage - we need your experience
1 My OS is: Linux 2 Update Info: ??? 3 I test: occasionally 4 I test for: User Experience related issues (new / changed behavior) 5 My suggestion: (for improvement) * Regular / on-demand CWS builds to separate changes (regularly, I stumbled over other issues that prevented testing the features I was interested in) * Some possibility to easily track what items are included in the build (e.g. bug fixes, Easy Hacks) * Somehow stable naming scheme for the builds to easily download / install them in a VM via e.g. scripts (reduced effort on my side) Note: Maybe some of the issues are already solved - but then I'm unaware of that. I'm computer enthusiast, but by no means a developer :-\ -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[steering-discuss] Re: SC Call on Saturday
Hi Florian! Am Dienstag, den 21.06.2011, 14:39 +0200 schrieb Florian Effenberger: Hi, I might not be able to join the SC Call on Saturday, as I am on the TDF admin weekend in Munich. Christoph, can you jump in for me? Hehe, I'm visiting my sister's family as well - but should be doable somehow; as long as we can stick with a usual phone conference. Unfortunately, I won't be able to test/stabilize the mumble service until the weekend. I hope this will be okay for the other participants. And, nice having the opportunity (duty?) to join again :-) Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Enhancement Request: Comment Ranges
Hi Thorsten, all! Am Sonntag, den 12.06.2011, 17:21 +0200 schrieb Thorsten Behrens: Christoph Noack wrote: Mmh, I'm CCing Thorsten who may know whether/how this could be turned into some easy/advanced/serious hack ... Since I'm currently not that active, I don't really know what the current hack status is. Thorsten, could you please have a look at that? Hi Chris, all, well, the how is explained here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/EasyHacks_Bugzilla_Migration Thanks a lot! Can someone posting in this thread familiar with the scenario please collect the available information within a bug report fill the appropriate whiteboard entries? Mmh, seems that might be me :-) I added this and several other EasyHacks related to OOoNotes2 - our activities related to comments at OpenOffice.org. Search in bugzilla: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advancedshort_desc=OOoNotes2bug_status=NEWbug_status=ASSIGNEDbug_status=REOPENEDshort_desc_type=allwordssubstr The cumbersome side of life: the whiteboard can only be added after the bug has been initially committed Do you know where to forward this feedback - there is also another one: If you select Writer as component, then the following text appears ... For all problems concerning the Word Processor including HTML editor. If applicable, please use one of the following key words in the Summary for more detailed specification: CONFIGURATION, EDITING, FILEOPEN, FILESAVE, FORMATTING, MAILMEGE, TABLES, PRINTING, UI, VIEWING. I think it should be MAILMERGE (with R), or? Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Enhancement Request: Comment Ranges
Hi Charles! Am Montag, den 13.06.2011, 09:43 -0400 schrieb Charles Jenkins: Thank you for everyone who commented on this. I'm actually getting a little misty because you liked my idea... Cristoph, heck, yes! Your proposal is perfect. If only, if only we had that, I could delete Word off my Mac and have a party to celebrate. I will remember you to do that ;-))) Will you be posting the bug proposal as Thorsten suggested, or should I learn how to do it? Oh, only a few minutes before you sent this mail I announced the issues - here is the one related to comment ranges: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=38244 All notes related easy hacks: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advancedshort_desc=OOoNotes2bug_status=NEWbug_status=ASSIGNEDbug_status=REOPENEDshort_desc_type=allwordssubstr What I'm currently unsure about - how to proceed. Although I'm not that convinced about voting, maybe it should be added to: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Vote_for_Enhancement Could you do that, please? Any other opinions? Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Enhancement Request: Comment Ranges
Hi Kazar! Am Samstag, den 11.06.2011, 20:09 -0400 schrieb adept techlists - kazar: Christoph Noack wrote: Quite some time ago, I defined the corresponding behavior so that it matches which the today's notes. The visual design: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2_Design_NoteAnchor#Proposal_.22Boxes_.28Note_Anchor_Area.29.22 The behavior when inserting notes / editing text: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes_Design_WorkingWithNotes#Proposed_Designs perfect. Not a developer (so what good am i :-)) but I can say, these mockups represent what is really needed. Thanks ... but I am also a bit sad that this stuff had been discussed over three years ago and is still lying around. Mmh, I'm CCing Thorsten who may know whether/how this could be turned into some easy/advanced/serious hack ... Since I'm currently not that active, I don't really know what the current hack status is. Thorsten, could you please have a look at that? Cheers, christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Enhancement Request: Comment Ranges
Hi Charles, hi Cor! Am Samstag, den 11.06.2011, 01:50 +0200 schrieb Cor Nouws: Charles Jenkins wrote (10-06-11 20:03) In LibreOffice, it appears that comments always have zero length. I would have sworn I had seen it with a selection somewhere. But maybe it only was on the old OOo wiki (1) about the notes feature? True, so called Notes Anchors are currently special (invisible) characters being embedded in the text. Sadly, there is no Notes Anchor Area ... although (as fas as I now) ODF would support that. Quite some time ago, I defined the corresponding behavior so that it matches which the today's notes. The visual design: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2_Design_NoteAnchor#Proposal_.22Boxes_.28Note_Anchor_Area.29.22 The behavior when inserting notes / editing text: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes_Design_WorkingWithNotes#Proposed_Designs By the way, the current Note Anchors really need some improvement ... so if there is any developer willing to work on that. That would be awesome! I'm happy to help (with the non-developer tasks *g*). Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] PinterSettins are no longer persistent (windows)
Hi Fernand, some weeks ago I spoke with some guys at OOo and they know this problem. Because of your mail, I did a quick search both at the OOo issue tracker and the LibreOffice issue tracker. The only information (related to that) is: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33639 So please, go ahead and file and issue for that ... since you have some more insight, I'd like to ask you. But I'd also like to ask whether you could CC me (username Christoph). Once the bug is filed, I'll upload a document I did some time ago. I've started to analyze the print items stored in the ODF files. So even some versions ago, the office suite wasn't able to store half of the settings offered in the printing dialog (that resulted in a funny mixture of both saved / non-saved) items. Thanks in advance! Cheers, Christoph Am Donnerstag, den 10.03.2011, 12:43 +0100 schrieb Fernand Vanrie: Hallo Sinds 3.3 (windows) all PrinterSettings except the Printer Names are no longer persistent and not stored anywhere not in the profile, and not in the document. Within the printer settings we have the options who are not Printer specific and we have Settings who are bound to a specific printer. Both are all lost after reloading the document, We can use the Printer specific settings during but only when starting the printing itself the choosen settings are remenbered as lo,ng the document stays open. Setting the PageSizes using the API is also broken, please trie the included code with a printer who accept to changes the PaperSizes PLease can someone confirm this, so i can fill a issue Greetz Fernand REM * BASIC * Sub printdocument Dim Doc As Object doc = thiscomponent Dim PrinterProperties(0) As New com.sun.star.beans.PropertyValue Dim PaperSize As New com.sun.star.awt.Size PaperSize.Width = 2 ' corresponds to 20 cm PaperSize.Height = 2 ' corresponds to 20 cm 'PrinterProperties (0).Name= Name 'PrinterProperties (0).Value= Adobe PDF PrinterProperties (0).Name=PaperFormat PrinterProperties (0).Value= 8 'PrinterProperties (1).Name=PaperSize 'PrinterProperties (1).Value= PaperSize Doc.setPrinter(PrinterProperties()) 'xray Doc.getPrinter Doc.print(PrinterProperties()) Dim PrinterProps(1) As New com.sun.star.beans.PropertyValue PrinterProps(0).Name=wait PrinterProps(0).value=true PrinterProps(1).Name = IsBusy dim bIsBusy as boolean bIsBusy = True While bIsBusy 'dim aPrintConditions as object aPrintConditions = thiscomponent.getPrinter() dim i as integer For i = LBound( aPrintConditions ) To UBound( aPrintConditions ) If aPrintConditions(i).Name = IsBusy Then bIsBusy = aPrintConditions(i).Value EndIf Next Wait 10 wend DisplayPrinterProperties end sub Sub DisplayPrinterProperties Dim Props 'Array of com.sun.star.beans.PropertyValue Dim i% 'Index variable of type Integer Dim s$ 'Display string Dim v ' Dim sName$ ' On Error Resume Next Props = ThisComponent.getPrinter() For i = 0 To UBound(Props) sName = props(i).Name v = props(i).Value s = s sName = If sName = PaperOrientation Then REM com.sun.star.view.PaperOrientation.LANDSCAPE also supported s = s IIf(v=com.sun.star.view.PaperOrientation.PORTRAIT,_ Portrait, Landscape) = CStr(v) ElseIf sName = PaperFormat Then Select Case v Case com.sun.star.view.PaperFormat.A3 s = s A3 Case com.sun.star.view.PaperFormat.A4 s = s A4 Case com.sun.star.view.PaperFormat.A5 s = s A5 Case com.sun.star.view.PaperFormat.B4 s = s B4 Case com.sun.star.view.PaperFormat.B5 s = s B5 Case com.sun.star.view.PaperFormat.LETTER s = s LETTER Case com.sun.star.view.PaperFormat.LEGAL s = s LEGAL Case com.sun.star.view.PaperFormat.TABLOID s = s TABLOID Case com.sun.star.view.PaperFormat.USER s = s USER Case Else s = s Unknown value End Select s = s = CStr(v) ElseIf sName = PaperSize Then REM type is com.sun.star.awt.Size REM The size is in TWIPS and there are 1440 twips per inch s=s CDbl(v.Width)/1000 x CDbl(v.Height)/1000 (cm) Else s = s CStr(v) End If s = s CHR$(10) Next s= Sometimes the PrinterName is correct but never the wanted papersize of 20x20 cm CHR(10) s MsgBox s, 0, Printer Properties End Sub -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] Approval of our Trademark Policy
Hi Charles, hi all! Am Donnerstag, den 03.03.2011, 16:42 +0100 schrieb Charles-H. Schulz: - changes requested by Christoph: I added one sentence about the english version being the official one. As for usability, please go ahead :-) make sure people understand there's one page dedicated to the logos though. Okay, I had a look (or two) on the pages ... TRADEMARK POLICY Fortunately, there seems to be sufficient protection, since I was unable to edit the Trademark Policy wiki page. Thus, I've edited the content on my user page that should be (if the changes are perceived as improvements) copied to the real page. Charles, could you take care of that, please? http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:ChristophNoack/Temporary_Work_Space#The_Document_Foundation_Trademark_Policy Changes: * Overall: Added some headings to improve the structure of the text and to ensure proper TOC creation by the wiki (although some changes might appear awkward) * Section Related Information: Added this section (referring to Logo Policy, Branding Guidelines) and linked from within the text to this section. * Section The Trademarks: Added list of the trademarks to ease the understandability -- By the way, the information is duplicated in Purpose; is that helpful? * Overall: Converted the text-only mail address into a clickable mail address * Overall: Changed hard formatting to a style that better fits to the wiki LOGO POLICY I've overhauled the logo policy, although the naming of some items seems still to be strange (I'd like to have some shorter names like: TDF Logo, Community Logo - or something like that). http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Logo_Policy Major Changes: * Moved the content to a table * Changed the point-of-view from we to TDF, and they/external to other -- Rationale: Most of the people will be part of the community, so it would be strange to tell them being external. The we for TDF seemed a bit too self-centered ... although it is correct from our point-of-view :-) * Added Usage Examples -- Are these descriptions okay, are more important ones missing? I think these examples have great value in describing when to use, when to avoid the TDF subline logo. * Overall: Improved description of legal mailing list (now: non-public) * Overall: Changed hard formatting to a style that better fits to the wiki Since there have been major changes, could you please thoroughly check whether the text still fits to your thoughts and our goals? Thanks a lot! Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: RE : Re: [steering-discuss] Approval of our Trademark Policy
Hi Charles, argh, sorry ... of course you said that you won't be fully available during the end of the week. Cheers, Christoph Am Freitag, den 04.03.2011, 06:53 +0100 schrieb Charles-H. Schulz: Christoph, Darn, i only have my phone with me today and this weekend, Florian and/or the admin team can help you out... Sorry, Charles. Le 4 mars 2011, 12:13 AM, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.com a écrit : Hi Charles, hi all! Am Donnerstag, den 03.03.2011, 16:42 +0100 schrieb Charles-H. Schulz: - changes requested by Christoph: I added one sentence about the english version being the off... Okay, I had a look (or two) on the pages ... TRADEMARK POLICY Fortunately, there seems to be sufficient protection, since I was unable to edit the Trademark Policy wiki page. Thus, I've edited the content on my user page that should be (if the changes are perceived as improvements) copied to the real page. Charles, could you take care of that, please? http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:ChristophNoack/Temporary_Work_Space#The_Document_Foundation_Trademark_Policy Changes: * Overall: Added some headings to improve the structure of the text and to ensure proper TOC creation by the wiki (although some changes might appear awkward) * Section Related Information: Added this section (referring to Logo Policy, Branding Guidelines) and linked from within the text to this section. * Section The Trademarks: Added list of the trademarks to ease the understandability -- By the way, the information is duplicated in Purpose; is that helpful? * Overall: Converted the text-only mail address into a clickable mail address * Overall: Changed hard formatting to a style that better fits to the wiki LOGO POLICY I've overhauled the logo policy, although the naming of some items seems still to be strange (I'd like to have some shorter names like: TDF Logo, Community Logo - or something like that). http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Logo_Policy Major Changes: * Moved the content to a table * Changed the point-of-view from we to TDF, and they/external to other -- Rationale: Most of the people will be part of the community, so it would be strange to tell them being external. The we for TDF seemed a bit too self-centered ... although it is correct from our point-of-view :-) * Added Usage Examples -- Are these descriptions okay, are more important ones missing? I think these examples have great value in describing when to use, when to avoid the TDF subline logo. * Overall: Improved description of legal mailing list (now: non-public) * Overall: Changed hard formatting to a style that better fits to the wiki Since there have been major changes, could you please thoroughly check whether the text still fits to your thoughts and our goals? Thanks a lot! Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+help@documentfoundatio... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] Approval of our Trademark Policy
Hi Charles, thanks for the effort - besides the stuff already mentioned ... some less legal, but rather understandability related comments: * Understandability: Most of the tdf mail addresses refer to mailing lists, but le...@documentfoundation.org is just a normal mail address. This difference might be important for some people - would it be helpful to say ... send an email to the non-public address le...@documentfoundation.org? * Usability: Most of the text doesn't use wiki capabilities like headings or second outline level enumeration (e.g. no TOC is added by the wiki that might make finding the desired information more quickly). * Usability: Once the text is finalized, we may ask to add the logo examples - the logo graphics are already in the wiki, so why not use them? Concerning the usability items; I can work on this once the text is approved ... or (just ping me), I can try to improve things tomorrow evening - if it is needed before any final approval. Am Dienstag, den 01.03.2011, 18:19 +0100 schrieb Charles-H. Schulz: *** SC Members and their deputies*** Please vote +1 or -1 in order to approve the trademark policy (text is here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TradeMark_Policy) +1 (having in mind the comments above and below, and by the others) Please also make sure you have read the additional material here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Logo_Policy and there: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding#Resources_for_external_use Another small comment - I've asked on the design list whether external use is a proper name for that. There is an ongoing discussion how to name that, and whether to separate the different logos for TDF / community use. So please be aware that we might (ask to) change this naming in the near future ... Charles, thanks for your work! Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Notes Printing (was: Re: [tdf-discuss] Printing)
Hi Zaphod, you are right ... this is one of the most demanded features for Writer (as far as I know). So it is already contained in my small list of proposed EasyHacks for the development. Now the downside - I wasn't able to work on this list since two weeks ... but I hope to propose these list to the development very soon. Here is my user page describing this easy hack: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:ChristophNoack/Temporary_Work_Space#Enable_Printing_for_the_Notes_.28Writer.29 Cheers, Christoph Am Montag, den 28.02.2011, 20:52 + schrieb Zaphod Feeblejocks: Hi All, Since v 2.4 (I think), OO set comments beside the text, in little call-out bubbles. This is a good idea. LibO still does it, as does Word. However, when I print, the comments go (a) on a new page or (b) at the end of the document, with line-numbers printed by each one. This is not friendly. I expected it give me an option to have it look like what I see on- screen (which Word does). What's the best way to report this as a 'desired improvement'. It's not a bug, so I haven't filed it as a bug-report. TIA, Zaphod-- Zaphod -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: table tool bar keep open
Hi Rick! Am Dienstag, den 22.02.2011, 09:56 +0200 schrieb Avraham Hanadari: By the way, hard to believe that this is a feature. Were that the case, in my opinion, it would appear as an option to have a given toolbar be permanent or just appear when the curser was in a certain place. Well, if it would be an option, than we could ship a thousand more options for the rest of the LibreOffice behavior :-) But of course, sometimes this kind of behavior can be annoying. Since some of you asked - here is the toolbar specification: http://specs.openoffice.org/ui_in_general/toolbars/openoffice_org_toolbar_spec.odt Most probably, section 6.3 Context Sensitive Toolbars will be interesting for you. Cheers, Christoph PS: I don't say that it behaves correctly, it's just about providing the requested information :-) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] OpenOffice.org articles in Linux Format March 2011
Hi Kevin! Am Freitag, den 11.02.2011, 15:35 -0500 schrieb Kevin Hunter: How fast do they WANT it to load? Both those times compare VERY favourably with MS Office and in fact on Windows OO is FASTER then MS Office for the above reason. The short answer is that the quickstarter doesn't count: I want it to load as fast or faster than MSO /without/ the quickstarter. MSO can do it, from a cold boot, fast. Why can't LO? Because we are more or less platform neutral and that requires (under the given circumstances) to rely on own code that has to be loaded. Microsoft Office can share many of the components with the operating system - that's a bit easier. Consequently, it will be hard to be fast as Microsoft Office, but there is potential - for sure :-) And for those who are interested to dig a bit deeper: http://uxopenofficeorg.blogspot.com/2009/04/openoffice-user-survey-2009-performance.html And: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Performance Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] the Meaning of access in manifesto
Hi Johannes, having monitored the discussion on the German list as well :-) Am Dienstag, den 08.02.2011, 22:28 +0100 schrieb Johannes A. Bodwing: Hello, what does access mean in the manifesto: to eliminate the digital divide in society by giving everyone access to office productivity tools free of charge to enable them to participate as full citizens in the 21st century Is it only the possibility for someone to download from TDF/LO-Sites or a more active way like a distribution by pre-installed LO on PC too? What does TDF really/precisely understand with access? The topline states WE COMMIT OURSELVES - so I interpret these as our general goals. More detailed, being the final state we are heading to. Does this tell us how to reach these goals? Not really ... so access is primarily meant to be make available, maybe even your bring to the people (in terms of: make people aware of that). How we reach that goal is a personal matter, or better, related to the local infrastructure. So whether this might be a CD in a magazine, a copy by friends, a download, or a pre-installed version (e.g. with GNU/Linux based distributions) - it doesn't matter, as long as we come closer to our initial goal. The manifesto should rather be our guiding principle - not so much a cookbook ;-) In the case above, I assume the local marketing teams will figure out a way to distribute LibreOffice ... to suit the needs of that many people. Does this help? Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] the Meaning of access in manifesto
Hi Johannes! Am Dienstag, den 08.02.2011, 23:12 +0100 schrieb Johannes A. Bodwing: The manifesto should rather be our guiding principle - not so much a cookbook ;-) In the case above, I assume the local marketing teams will figure out a way to distribute LibreOffice ... to suit the needs of that many people. Does this help? I'm feeling like stumbling through the fog. If I look at words like independent ..., then is it enough to make people aware of LO? Or should there be a more active way like: What, you have a lousy internet connection? Try it in Internet-Café netlink, XY-Street 45. Use a 500-MB-Stick to download your personel LO, and so on. What would you do, personally? If you think that its helpful to actively bring LibO to the people, then please consider to do that. :-) This is a manifesto, neither a mission statement, nor a strategic marketing plan, nor an action plan (these, by the way, may be derived from that). If we cover such things in detail, then you might have the chance to translate hundreds of pages to cover all the different aspects (I assume that your questions are still related to the translation of the manifesto...). A manifesto is meant to guide on a higher level. Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: Alternative communication platform (was: Re: [tdf-discuss] Best time for Conference Calls)
Hi Michael! Am Donnerstag, den 03.02.2011, 19:11 +0930 schrieb Michael Wheatland: On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 3:44 AM, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.com wrote: ... Enough ranting ... you may remember that I talked about an open platform that provides text, voice, video, whiteboard capabilities in different virtual meeting rooms, and that (when the call has been finished) also provides a downloadable video. It also provides (limited) managing of people's schedules, so maybe we can give it a try - a test installation? What do you think? Project page videos: http://code.google.com/p/openmeetings/ ... If this really would work, it would be a great resource for the whole community, I think. I think that any move to a well built open source product is very progressive for our community. Not sure if you have the time for this at the moment, I know that I am snowed under with work so I am only just getting enough time to do a little work on the current site. Okay, understandable - same for me with the Design Team and its topics, I love to work with / on. [...] If you want to setup a demonstration server I am sure there will be people interested in trying it out for a time to evaluate the benefit to the community. Well, I think I trust Florian's comment that this might not be as urgent as other things (I'm still delaying the FOSDEM talk preparation, grrr). But since you asked whether the phone conference system is the single one, I thought it might be helpful for the website guys. Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Alternative communication platform (was: Re: [tdf-discuss] Best time for Conference Calls)
Hi Michael, all! Am Donnerstag, den 03.02.2011, 03:28 +0930 schrieb Michael Wheatland: Is Talkyoo a free service? This would allow others to establish accounts and host calls. The alternative is Skype, which I am a BIG fan of, which now supports group calling. Although I cannot answer the first question, I can say that I know some people (including myself) who feel not comfortable by using Skype (closed source, closed communication protocol, somehow bypasses most firewalls...), although it works nearly everywhere (in terms of network infrastructure). Enough ranting ... you may remember that I talked about an open platform that provides text, voice, video, whiteboard capabilities in different virtual meeting rooms, and that (when the call has been finished) also provides a downloadable video. It also provides (limited) managing of people's schedules, so maybe we can give it a try - a test installation? What do you think? Project page videos: http://code.google.com/p/openmeetings/ Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmeetings Demo Portal: http://www.openmeetings.de/openmeetings/ If this really would work, it would be a great resource for the whole community, I think. Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Best time for Conference Calls
Hi Italo, hi Michael! Am Sonntag, den 30.01.2011, 12:21 +0100 schrieb Italo Vignoli: On 01/30/2011 09:05 AM, Michael Wheatland wrote: Might I suggest That we move the times earlier in the day to around 1200-1400 GMT. Hi Michael, for me, this would make the conference calls accessible only during the week end. During the week, I already have problems in attending them when they are before 8PM. In this case, the world makes the life of a global community far more difficult than it should be. Same for me ... but that's okay in general, if there is some preparation and some minutes, so that everybody is in the information loop. Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] SC Vote on first members of TDF
Hi all, Florian voted, Cor voted for Sophie ... nothing left for Christoph, except to express a double +1 as an opinion. Cheers, Christoph Am Samstag, den 29.01.2011, 10:51 +0100 schrieb Cor Nouws: Acting as deputy for Sophie: Charles-H. Schulz wrote (28-01-11 16:51) 1) approve that people listed at http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/ are current members of TDF according to our ByLaws Yes 2) approve Fridrich Strba as member of TDF Yes Cor -- - giving openoffice.org its foundation :: The Document Foundation - -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Feature request for LibreOffice Impress
Hi Chynte! Am Samstag, den 22.01.2011, 22:13 +0100 schrieb Chynte: Hi, after following this mailing list for a while, today I want to ask for your opinion about two features I miss in Impress. The first feature is linked to the custom slide shows. [...] The problem is, that the automatic page side numbering is not able to handle custom slide shows. Mmh, I don't know a solution for this. Sorry :-\ But since Impress usually supports jumping to other (hidden) slides in the presentation in any case, this might be required ... even if you exclude (e.g.) slide 5, you can change to slide 5 by 5 ENTER (another feature important for some other users). To solve this, it requires a bit more work ... The second missing feature is support for automatic ToC- and Index-Tables as they are implemented so nicely in Writer. Concerning the ToC - what is missing when using the Insert - Summary Slide feature? [...] What is your opinion? Do you agree that these two features could be helpful for others? I think yes - do you know whether there are issues (request) for this at OOo or LibreOffice? This might help to evaluate how much this is requested by others as well. Regards, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] Minutes of SC call 2011-01-13 for review
Hi Stefan, Tom, David! Thanks for raising this question ... since David already answered, I'd like to comment some parts as well. Personally, I think the current decision doesn't convey the very positive mood of the discussion within the SC. Once the recording is online, I suggest to listen to some of the statements ... I found it very encouraging. Am Freitag, den 14.01.2011, 21:34 +0100 schrieb Stefan Weigel: Hi SC, Am 14.01.2011 16:20, schrieb Andre Schnabel: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/Steering_Committee_Meetings#Minutes_2011-01-13 quote # decision: SC appoints a team of 4 people that will be responsible for managing the website for a trial period of two months this team consists of: * David Nelson (for textual content) * Christoph Noack (for user experience) * Ivan Miskovic (for design) * Christian Lohmaier (for infrastructure) /qoute Is this for the international (main) site only? Are we still allowed to use our roles as authors and publishers in Silverstripe, as we have done the past weeks? As far as I understand - no changes with regard to the local teams. I think the SC tried to achieve, that we do have a coordinated effort for the international site - and all the local teams can benefit. For example, I currently aim to raise some issues at the website mailing list, since I hope that some local teams will listen there as well - in the end, the English site addresses only a part of the whole community. Next, I consider myself to be someone who may provide help and support ... e.g. to help to evaluate proposals that are made with regard to UX. Our aim should be to actively invite people to provide feedback and shape content. But to implement this consistently, the team has been set up. I hope very much that the website team grows, so that we can share the responsibility with many more people :-) Historically, the local teams have much more experience providing dedicated sites ... Stefan, does this help? Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] libreoffice.org e-mail accounts
Hi all! Am Freitag, den 14.01.2011, 23:47 +0100 schrieb Christoph Noack: And if there are still some concerns, my proposal would be: forename.lastn...@community.libreoffice.org Sorry for this proposal, I totally missed Florian's earlier mail containing a statement concerning sub-domains. Bad if one starts reading from the most recent mails ;-) Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] Minutes of SC call 2011-01-13 for review
Hi Sophie, hi André, ... Am Freitag, den 14.01.2011, 18:59 +0300 schrieb sophie: Hi André, On 14/01/2011 18:56, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Le Fri, 14 Jan 2011 16:20:04 +0100, Andre Schnabelandre.schna...@gmx.net a écrit : Dear SC members, please read, review and correct the minutes at http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/Steering_Committee_Meetings#Minutes_2011-01-13 Thanks for the minutes! As far as I remember, my proposal to draft a wiki page for the website team had been discussed as well. I hope this is correct (and helps to understand the SC decision), otherwise please remove the statement I've added recently ... During the trail period, the team is asked to draft a (e.g.) wiki page how the community can contribute. Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: LibreOffice version for Android platform
Hi Tom! Am Mittwoch, den 12.01.2011, 22:00 + schrieb Tom Tasche: [... OpenOffice Document Reader for Android ...] As you can see, I don't feel very comfortable with this mailing list... ;) Well, maybe you feel more comfortable when I say downloaded your app and looking forward to do some real use :-) Thanks for making something like that available! [...] Glad you like the idea behind my app! I hope we can build a lot more stable, robust and functional app in the future (hopefully together). Sounds great! [...] Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] libreoffice.org e-mail accounts
Hi all! Am Freitag, den 14.01.2011, 20:45 +0100 schrieb Italo Vignoli: On 1/14/11 8:21 PM, Olivier Hallot wrote: So, nickn...@libreoffice.org Leave the mail for TDF oficials as @documetnfoundation.org I totally agree with Olivier. Just to make the concept stronger, and to protect us from possible email trolls, we can add a specific paragraph in the bylaws. Yep, agree as well. (Especially since we'll never get rid of less informed people who spread strange information ... independent of any email address.) And if there are still some concerns, my proposal would be: forename.lastn...@community.libreoffice.org Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] LO 3.3 RC 2 - Colour for insert columns and rows in Writer
Hi Johannes, hi Christophe! Am Donnerstag, den 06.01.2011, 17:48 +0100 schrieb Christophe Strobbe: At 10:45 3/01/2011, Johannes A. Bodwing wrote: it's about a table in writer and the icons to insert columns and rows. The colour now is yellow. I find it not a good choice because it's a pale kind of yellow and not good to see. What about a more saturated yellow or a kind of blue or purple or orange? I'd propose to chose what had been in OOo - although it is not 100% color safe green and blue are industrial (and defined) standards that already convey positive/negative actions. To anyone else who wants to check colour contrast, I can recommend the (free) Contrast Analyser by the Paciello Group: http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/contrast-analyser.html. This tool is available for Windows and Mac. Just make sure that you check the luminosity algorithm. (There is some guidance for this tool at http://www.spotlessinteractive.com/articles/accessibility/colour-contrast-analyser.php, but it's really very easy to use.) Christophe, would you mind to add this information to the tools list in the wiki (somebody was so kind to transfer from OOo to LibO)? Within OOo, I've already added the Colorblind Web Page Filter. And if you know something for Linux as well ... would be great (as well *g*). Here is the link: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/User_Experience/Tools#Evaluation Cheers, Christoph PS: See you at the FOSDEM :-) Cool! -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Using free, open microblogging
H Fabián, all! Forwarding this to the website list as well ... it is about offering an open alternative to Twitter on the start page. Please read Fabián's suggestion. I agree with that, that we should prefer the open alternatives ... There is already a group, you find it on the TDF website [1], see Social Networks and IRC (Extract): Twitter and Identi.ca: Follow us @docufoundation on Twitter and on Identi.ca. Feel free to use the tag #docufoundation for posting interesting news about us. We've also set-up a dedicated group at Identi.ca. Thanks for that! Bye, Christoph [1] http://www.documentfoundation.org/contact/ Am Dienstag, den 11.01.2011, 10:23 -0500 schrieb Fabián Rodríguez: I noticed today there is a Twitter feed on the home page at http://www.libreoffice.org/. In the spirit of using free, open-source software as we advocate other users doing with LibreOffice, would it be possible to link the libreoffice account in identi.ca to the libreofficenews in Twitter and post from Identi.ca so both audiences are served equally ? I'd also like to see the identi.ca feed featured on the home page (not Twitter exclusively). At some point TDF could setup their own status.net server too. There are many reasons for not using Twitter exclusively, but I won't go into that Anyone with an account on identi.ca can link their account to Twitter by visiting this link while logged in: https://identi.ca/main/twitterlogin Cheers, Fabian -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [tdf-discuss] Using free, open microblogging
Hi David, all! David, thanks for the answer ... Am Mittwoch, den 12.01.2011, 06:19 +0800 schrieb David Nelson: Hi, :-) Ivan and I discussed the choice between a Twitter widget on the home page, and an identi.ca widget, when we were working together last week, ultimately deciding on a Twitter widget simply because more people in the project seemed to be Twittering... Mmh. That might be discussed later again, because more people use MS Office documents doesn't mean to change that to the default behavior of LibreOffice :-) But, in fact, this triggers a discussion for a need for a more-centralized, more-harmonized management of all the project's communications media: - libreoffice.org website - Twitter accounts - Identi.ca accounts - TDF blog account on WordPress.com - Planet web - documentfoundation.org website - Facebook account - IRC (2 accounts...) - etc No need to trigger that ... it is available :-) Thanks to Florian, Drew, ... and many others: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/Web_Sites_services [...] Cheers, Christoph Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [tdf-discuss] Using free, open microblogging
Hi David! Am Mittwoch, den 12.01.2011, 06:37 +0800 schrieb David Nelson: Hi, :-) On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 06:31, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.com wrote: No need to trigger that ... it is available :-) Thanks to Florian, Drew, ... and many others: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/Web_Sites_services Oh, sure, it's essential to already have a centralized list of the various resources on a wiki page, but that still doesn't equate to a harmonized management... ;-) Our harmonized management - in this case - is currently called Florian :-) He worked on most of the names / tags for the infrastructure and the social media. If there is a need to change / adapt something, I propose to ping him ... Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Off-topic (was: Re: [tdf-discuss] Download libreoffice button in new LibreOffice website)
Hi Christian! Am Montag, den 10.01.2011, 19:38 +0100 schrieb Christian Lohmaier: use the source :-) Make it so! :-) Great, just great! Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Gallery -- toggle off/on
Hi Marc, some additional remarks to those by Regina (Thanks!). The reason for not having a x-button to close some of the window is, that the source code and the interaction concepts are very old. Just look at the selection decoration - looks quite dated ... In comparison, the task panes in Impress (e.g. Slide Format Selection) are much more up to date and thus more flexible. But some improvements concerning task panes / windows / ... are in progress at Oracle. But it is hard to align the behavior of all of them. You may have noticed (or your students) that the functions to toggle the visibility of those windows is spread among different menus (problem: visibility issue vs. functionality issue), that they behave different (missing 'x', docking/undocking), that they look different (old vs. new decorators), that they are used differently (task panes for Impress only). Let's sum it up that way - there is plenty to do for both the devs and the UX design team ;-) Cheers, Christoph Am Montag, den 27.12.2010, 09:30 -0500 schrieb Marc Paré: Yes you are right. One looses sight that it is a docked window when it appears as a tool window as well. If you click through all of the tools, Gallery is the only tool where there is no exit button. Maybe it should then be treated in the same way? -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-website] Website status
Hi Tom! Am Mittwoch, den 22.12.2010, 10:33 + schrieb Tom Davies: Hi David :) I prefer http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/bbnG0Hny0SpccJIZsGp72A?feat=directlink because it has less information and looks prettier. Sadly, that seems to be what people want. Information confuses people and seems to need to be on subsequent pages. Also the picture on Well, there is no the people ... there are people having different requirements and living/working in different environments. Some guys want to have in-depth information in advance, some consume basic information and just want to give things a try. Thus, it is not about hiding information, but to provide it step-by-step - managing the concept what people can grasp. That is why I think that we miss the requirements of quite some users at the moment ... http://test.libreoffice.org took ages to appear and people don't seem to have patience beyond a couple of milliseconds and when it appeared the first image was 'horribly' complicated. Isn't it a gif? Could it be less size byte-wise? Same for me ... By contrast competitors websites show almost nothing and give almost no information. [...] I do think both are great and both do the job of easy access to the download. The text needs to be somewhere on the site and preferably just 1 click away or reached when the page is scrolled down, something easy. Yep. I would say keep the one we have already or switch to the one that is closest to completion whichever one that is. I'd say ... whatever helps us to satisfy the needs of the majority of our users. So even if it might take some additional work, it seems worth the effort. Regards from Tom :) PS this is only my opinion and i might be a little bitter and twisted nowadays Sorry to hear that :-\ Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] poll on next confcall
Hi Florian, all, I added my votes. But just for the record - I just got the information that I'll be on a business trip during the second half of the week (being offline). Moreover, we get several furniture deliveries the days after. Thus, there won't be that much time in general :-( Cheers, Christoph Am Montag, den 06.12.2010, 18:37 +0100 schrieb Florian Effenberger: A short reminder: Please cast your vote. Only five votes out of eight SC members are yet in. Florian Effenberger wrote on 2010-12-03 10.41: Hello, you know how it works. :-) Here's the poll for next week: http://www.doodle.com/ctpptfzggtfsht4m Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: next SC call TOMORROW (was: Re: [steering-discuss] poll on next SC confcall)
Hi all! Am Mittwoch, den 01.12.2010, 10:22 +0100 schrieb Florian Effenberger: the next confcall will be TOMORROW, Thursday, at 1900 UTC. See http://www.doodle.com/aerzqaxtwydrg9w4 for your local date and time. Again, I'm sorry for being unable to join ... I'll enjoy our Christmas Party within our department. And I fear that we won't be finished by that time :-) [And I really wonder why I missed that when answering the Doodle poll ... sorry!] Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
a bit off-topic (was: Re: [tdf-discuss] accessibility mailing list)
Hi Christophe, hi Jonathon! Am Dienstag, den 30.11.2010, 11:42 +0100 schrieb Christophe Strobbe: Hi, At 18:13 29/11/2010, jonathon wrote: On 11/29/2010 02:14 PM, Friedrich Strohmaier wrote: (...) It's only solution is to get Your tools and Your communication partners help You achieving that task. LibO intrinsically fails Section 508 criteria. Given how low that bar is, I suspect that any country whose a11y legislation has any merit, should automatically disqualify LibO from consideration. Mmh, why do we fail? At least for OOo, I'm sure that we complied to the requirements, since OOo was used within the US administration. So what is missing for LibO? The USA are ahead of most other countries (including much of Europe) with regard to accessibility legislation. (The EU wants to create a standard for accesibility requirements for ICT in public procurement, but I don't expect a final standard before 2012.) Good thing :-) This can be shurely be demanded by someone willing tho help development. Someone looking for advice is a completely different story and should be handled as such. When it comes to a11y, the first step is to learn if the program works with the software that sort of succeeds in providing the data they need, so that the program can almost be used. Just to make sure that we are all on the same page: people with disabilities do not always use assistive technology. Sometimes it is just a matter of setting high contrast and bigger font size in the OS, which any app should than inherit. For others, keyboard access is essential. Well said! And to Jonathan - for the majority of our users, the current UI has major drawbacks (e.g. numerous unnecessary modal dialogs, minor intelligence in toolbars, plain controls, ...). But for people requiring assistive technology, this is pretty helpful - our UI is made of very simple elements that can be addressed easily In addition: older people can also benefit from accessibility features software, but they don't want to be considered as people with disabilities? (Decreased vision? That's just part of getting old, dear.) Correct! And to emphasize that - what does older mean today? Given the demographical change and the today's life expectancy, it is just a matter of fact that any kind of technology has to support broad target groups. Skipping the infamous mistakes that some people started to develop things that even looked like being made for old people, today we are back on track with design for all (but I still wonder why we need such slogans for things that should be common sense ...). Looking at the content of my mail, I should say my 2 ct. Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] missing tomorrow's marketing call
Hi Florian! I'm sorry as well ... since my day job is kind of insane at the moment (the amount of things to do, not the job itself *g*), I'm unable to say that I will be available that time. Thus, may anybody else be able to host the call? Am Dienstag, den 30.11.2010, 20:26 +0100 schrieb Florian Effenberger: Hi, I'm sorry to say, but I totally overlooked that I'm out tomorrow evening on a family birthday party, so I most likely will not be able to make it to the marketing confcall :-( Please enjoy the party ... send pictures of delicious cake :-) Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org List archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] accessibility mailing list
Hi Florian, after reading some of the replies, I still need to sort that out ;-) Am Montag, den 29.11.2010, 12:51 +0100 schrieb Florian Effenberger: Because of the missing working space for accessibility issues, I already added that topic to the Design wiki page draft some days ago [1]. Thus, from my point-of-view, we may add this to the LibreOffice Design team mailing list as well ... as a starting point. I guess the main concern is, that especially for people in need of accessibility, following large mail threads not related to that topic, can be a problem - so a dedicated list indeed might make sense. So we do talk about several things here: 1. People (with disabilities) who might want to work with other contributors (developers, UX people, ...) to improve accessibility. Or, the might want to discuss their experience with the product. 2. Contributors who design features and workflows that are - per se - accessible. Let's say, that this is a basic criteria if something gets added/changed within LibreOffice. 3. Contributors who deal with assistive technology that enables users with disabilities to access both the software and the data. Concerning 1: Here, I do understand the request for lower volume mailing lists. But I do think that this is an international issue - not only limited to English. But at least, an international a11y-users list (or however it is called) may make sense. But, we have to make sure that contributors are aware of that. Concerning 2: This is what I had in mind when I initially replied to your mail. To me, it makes some sense to combine both the workflow and UI design along with accessibility. To me, it is not about providing any UI that will be made available via assistive technology, moreover, it should be worked on right from the start. Concerning 3: This is the more technical part of a11y - and a very important one. Here, it might make sense to get (at least) a special interest group or a team. But I'm unable to suggest what they might need to do a proper job :-) Okay, rather statements, limited number of proposals. Pick any :-) Cheers, Christoph PS: I don't think that LibO fails here; OOo was not that bad - as far as I remember. Our job is to continue to work on, and to improve the accessibility of LibO. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Survey: Usage of LibreOffice components
Hi Sebastian! Am Sonntag, den 28.11.2010, 19:09 +0100 schrieb Sebastian G. : I'd like to know which components are most used and maybe why others are not. If you used OpenOffice before you can include your usage data as well. I hope it's allowed to add other's peoples usage data ;-) http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Renaissance:Phase_1 Detailed data on the application use can be found here: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/w/images/f/fb/OOoUserSurvey2009_Final.ods [...] This is more or less private. There's no goal (other than to satisfy my curiosity) of this survey, but someone might use it for it's own purposes. e.g. discussing about changing installer defaults, creating a light installer... and so on. The private approach is perfect - roughly 99,998% of the people who would be affected by these answers are not addressed via this mailing list. I start (OpenOffice usage included): Writer = 90% Calc = 09% Impress = 01% Draw = 00% Base = 00% Math = 00% Depends on what I'm working on, I would say ... Writer = 50% Calc = 25% Draw = 0% (or, just reproducing bugs *g*) Base = 0% Math = 0% I don't use the quick starter. It's up to the distribution default. Since it is usually residing in the RAM (I only suspend my computer), it doesn't matter (to me). Writer: to write private letters Same here. Or to read / review some larger texts my girlfriend works on. Calc: to create some listings and calculations Same here. Impress: to watch presentations from others (Just created one on my own for fun) Mostly creating presentations, e.g. for the trade fairs and conferences and such stuff. Draw: I just don't draw anything. If I did in the past there was paint (gulp). Inkscape works pretty good for me and it's a multi-platform tool. (Just for used for testing purpose) Inkscape, of course :-) Base: I don't create any databases. Math: I don't needed that in the past. Well, I don't use Math at the moment, but I used it heavily in the past. Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [steering-discuss] next SC call on Saturday
Hi all! I'm sorry, but I won't make it. We'll have some family party outside ... which means no internet access. But - this is the good side - traveling will require some time. So I can (maybe) work on the stack of oh-so-long delayed things :-) Cheers, Christoph Am Mittwoch, den 17.11.2010, 20:58 +0100 schrieb Volker Merschmann: Hi, 2010/11/17 Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org: Volker Merschmann wrote on 2010-11-17 11.02: I've updated the wiki page and will try to attend hearing. The SC members are asked to add an agenda. Please remember taking notes this time. thanks! Can you add taking notes to the wiki agenda? I'm on the road with flaky internet access... Done. Please add your AI now Thx Volker -- ++ Volker Merschmann - ODF-Software Contributor -- E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/steering-discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Using Tango (was: Re: [tdf-discuss] New Icon theme set)
Hi all! Am Dienstag, den 16.11.2010, 20:27 +1300 schrieb Graham Lauder: I agree the tango set is great however it is already shipped with OOo and LibreO as an option. (ToolsoptionsLibreOffice ViewIcon size and style) However I admit that I would like to see tango as the default. Does anybody know how complete Tango is at the moment? How many missing, or maybe not that matching (in terms of icon metaphor and thus usability) icons left to make it a drop-in replacement? Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Apply button
Hi Ian, hi RGB ES (???)! During the analysis of special use cases within the Renaissance project, this has been one of the TOP10 issues. But, the basic idea behind this dialog is different (tweaking). The software misses an efficient tool to set the position of objects easily. Partly, this is addressed by the recent Better Defaults activity that aims to re-consider the values for the grid (OOo). This might help (a bit). But this doesn't help for e.g. objects (like pictures) that do have content and an empty margin (thus, there is content that is smaller than the bounding box). The bounding box snaps to the grid (or other helpers), but the content does not. This is something which has been solved since ages in Microsoft Office. If you move objects (e.g. via the cursor keys), then the bounding box as well as the (calculated) content box is considered. Today, the UI designers within IDEs are great tools - they consider the position and size of all the objects on the page and propose alignment automatically. This is something that would be extremely helpful in many cases. Concerning the dialog - yes, it might help. But if an Apply button gets added, then - in perceived 99% of all cases - the dialog will just hide the object that gets transformed. So people are fighting against the dialog window :-) Any developer here that may derive an easy hack for the consideration of the content box idea? ;-) Cheers, Christoph Am Sonntag, den 14.11.2010, 11:50 + schrieb Ian Lynch: Good idea, you should never have to close a dialogue box in any multi-tasking environment in order to do anything. It seems to have been a peculiar thing that sprang up in Windows 3 applications and has persisted. Ok if the dialogue is linked to an object and you unselect that object the values in the dialogue become undefined so greyed out. If you click on another objet its properties appear in the dialogue. Inkscape is much better than Draw in this respect and it is one reason I use Inkscape almost exclusively now. On 14 November 2010 08:44, RGB ES rgb.m...@gmail.com wrote: If you search for apply button on OOo's issue tracker, more than 1100 issues appears. The lack of a simply apply option, specially on Draw and Impress were you need to continually modify (and check!) the position and properties of several objects is something I never understood on OOo. I think it is important in several dialogues (specially those that refers to graphical objects and frames) to have the possibility to apply changes without closing the dialogue itself. What do you think? -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] FreeDesktop Bugzilla
Hi Michel! Am Samstag, den 13.11.2010, 18:01 -0500 schrieb Michel Gagnon: Le 2010-11-12 22:20, Duane a écrit : On 11/12/2010 06:43 PM, Michel Gagnon wrote: I don't know about others, but I, for one, NEVER send those automated crash reports. It feels a bit like big brother watching over my shoulder. You are kidding right? How do you expect problems to be resolved if they are not reported? I much prefer to analyse the situation thoroughly before I send a report. If it happens only once, it could be a system error, a program error or a human error. If I can reproduce 2 or 3 times, then it is likely to be a bug and I can say what happens, what should have happened, what was the situation before it crashed, etc. The automated report doesn't say anything like It crashes when I convert long document into PDF, but only when I use the Optima font Good point - but this is the sort of thing which is targeted by using such automated reports (more clearly, one of the main reasons to use automated reporting for some issues). So it is great that you try to reproduce this error - to provide some more in-depth analysis. At the same time, nobody can say if somebody else is affected too. The more users are affected (usually), the more important is the bug. And here we move the evaluation to the automated system - the more similar crashes/bugs, the more important to work on. The Hamburg guys for example, collect crash reports and prioritize them according their occurrence. This is something the single (and experienced) end-user is usually be unable to do. So, things like automatic reports are more helpful when we think about user groups instead of single users. Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Apply button
Hi Ian! Am Sonntag, den 14.11.2010, 17:34 + schrieb Ian Lynch: Concerning the dialog - yes, it might help. But if an Apply button gets added, then - in perceived 99% of all cases - the dialog will just hide the object that gets transformed. Just move the dialogue to the side of the screen. Inkscape seems to manage this situation well enough. With hi-res screens there is normally plenty of space. From my point-of-view, this is different. Inkscape is a graphic tool that is used by experienced designers. We may assume that those guys do have better hardware (e.g. larger screens). And, Inkscape does have another concept with docked panes ... We - in contrast - develop an office suite that also targets other markets like developing countries. Although the minimum system requirements state 1024x768, the design for OOo still targets netbook resolutions. If there would have been more space, I would have designed the new printing dialog differently :-) So people are fighting against the dialog window :-) Dialogues associated with objects works well for me, you can always not call it up if yo don't want to use it. What I read here is just move it aside, you can always not call it up. This - so my understanding - just creates more manual effort for the users (moving, clicking, calling, closing), although a simple feature like that should just work. And just works starts with moving with cursor keys or mouse dragging. Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Inkscape vs. Draw (was: Re: [tdf-discuss] Apply button)
Hi Ian, just a few thoughts ... some other topics made my spare time reserve disappear :-) Am Sonntag, den 14.11.2010, 20:30 + schrieb Ian Lynch: From my point-of-view, this is different. Inkscape is a graphic tool that is used by experienced designers. We may assume that those guys do have better hardware (e.g. larger screens). And, Inkscape does have another concept with docked panes ... Inkscape is used by kids in primary schools so the argument about professional designers doesn't really hold water - I use it on a netbook! So why not have docked panes in Draw? If it works well offer it. Simple. Because the topic wasn't about docked panes, but about the transformation dialog. And, used varies. If we compare functionality, then it should be compared on a given use case. I agree that Inkscape is a great tool and much more handy for kids - in my point of view, because simple things like like moving objects, drag-and-drop, ... works better. But, to be efficient within complex graphics, the task pane of Inkscape just grabs a lot of space (which then has to be scrolled, or you have to undock it and move it around, ...). Fortunately, in our case, position control is given via the toolbars - not only via the task pane. By the way, Christian Lippka offered a nice private teaser some weeks ago. This is about how the layout might work for such task panes: http://lippka.com/teaser.png However, the original discussion was about avoiding iterative opening/closing the position dialog. And the given proposal was to - first - improve the positioning first. We - in contrast - develop an office suite that also targets other markets like developing countries. Although the minimum system requirements state 1024x768, the design for OOo still targets netbook resolutions. If there would have been more space, I would have designed the new printing dialog differently :-) I don't buy this at all. I use a netbook regularly and I don't see any advantages in using Draw over inkscape in that environment. Neither are ideal on that size screen. If you are short of RAM and processor power I'd say OOo is going to cause you more problems that Inkscape ;-) That's correct. I come back to comparing use cases - I find it very difficult to write longer documents with Inkscape ;-) The point is, the main design (was/is) based on the whole office suite with all the applications. Currently, Draw is more or less a nice addition, because the codebase nearly identical with Impress. Sometimes a huge advantage, sometimes not ... [... effort of moving / opening / closing dialogs over and over again ... ] If you don't have to call it up why is there any manual effort? Just ignore it exists. [...] Because it (guess *g*) - doesn't help to solve the initially given use case. If you want to precisely move objects, you have to use it. That is a design flaw ... it wouldn't be necessary (that often) if we could improve the resizing and moving behavior. Okay, back to other topics ... or better, back to doing something with Inkscape :-) Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] FreeDesktop Bugzilla
Hi Johannes! Am Samstag, den 13.11.2010, 10:05 +0100 schrieb Johannes Bausch: [WinXP Crash Report Example] better: * ask the user once at the beginning if he wants to report crashes and list the information THERE * NEVER include things like the current program's memory page dump or something alike * then DO NOT ask again but just send it alternative: * pop-up which sais that a crash report can be sent if the user wishes, but: * it only has a input field where the user can say for himself what happened and when * checkbox saying something like: include relevant data, where data really leads to ALL the data being sent I mentioned it before, there is already a crash reporter that is documented in a specification at [1]. It allows to view the sent information and it allows people to add feedback - so the user is still in control. The current problem is that hardly anyone trusts these crash reports - that's what I experience when talking to friends about that issue. So we first have to make the user think that something is being done. I've repeatedly used the Firefox made me sad-thing but I've never used the crash report before. We, the UX team, thought similar when Sun worked on the OpenOffice Improvement Program - the underlying framework collects (non-content) information during the usage of OpenOffice.org [2]. There has been a huge risk concerning credibility, trust, ... and it all turned out to be wrong. There are some people who do not use this feature - but many other people do. So even if some people deny that, it might still be a great resource for information. At the end, it is about being open - not only open-source ;-) Cheers, Christoph [1] http://specs.openoffice.org/appwide/errorreporter/error_report_2_0_ui_specification.odt [2] http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User_Experience/OpenOffice.org_User_Feedback_Program -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
OOoCon 2010 Talk (was: Re: [tdf-discuss] FreeDesktop Bugzilla)
Hi Charles! Am Freitag, den 12.11.2010, 07:43 -0500 schrieb Charles Marcus: On 2010-11-12 6:01 AM, Michael Meeks wrote: Perhaps we want a simple hash in addition to that - that combines vendor, version, platform, and so on - and that we demand - so we can detect wrong values that people enter for version / etc. - thus not tempting them to file an old bug vs. a newer version just to get attention ;-) would be easy to do. Version key (paste from help-about): I don't understand why this should have to be manually entered by the user. Good question, short answer: There is no reason. At least no real technical reason ... At the OOoCon 2010 (and before), we already talked how to improve the issue gathering and tracking from the user's and the supporter's point-of-view. The current idea is a small first step to some agreement between the different contributors ... because - from what I understand - it is more the differences how the projects handle these issues, than a technical problem. The discussion at the OOoCon 2010 made clear to me, that - if people go for such a (let's call it) automated issue gathering system, to say yes, software does contain bugs. And it requires some agreement across different projects / Linux distributions how to harmonize such a system, so that every contributor can have some benefit. And here, the experience of the projects and the current workflows seem to differ to such an extend, that the given manual system provides reasonable flexibility. Another experience people talked about was, that fixing the known bugs is already a lot of effort. But, I still consider this costly for the users and the people doing the support on the mailing lists. However, we collected some ideas within the presentation / workshop ... so if you like dynamic camera movements and emotional debates, then please have a look at the conference video [1]. As strange as it sounds, I'm happy for each of the tiny improvements ... and after a long time, we start to address these improvements. Okay, the remaining comments might better be located on another mailing list :-) Cheers, Christoph [1] Video (approx. 700 MB!) http://users2.ooodev.org/~ooocon2010/01_september/FT_409/18.15_charles_schulz_mechtilde_stehmann.flv -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] where do i submit bugs?
Hi Frank! Am Samstag, den 06.11.2010, 09:37 -0500 schrieb Frank Esposito: Although I have been a OO user for many years, I never really cared about the development of the project because I thought Sun would never listen to just one person. Then when Oracle bought Sun, I gave up on the product entirely. Now however, with the document foundation, I actually see a real chance that input from someone like me can actually help the project. Great! So I would like to help. Where can I submit bugs for Libre Office?? fun Well, I hope you talk about submitting bug reports - from my personal point-of-view, we don't need more bugs at the moment. /fun The information is documented in the wiki - maybe you should skip all the content that seems weird to you: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/BugReport Bye, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
LibO Idea Handling (was: Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: [tdf-discuss] priorising feature-requests [was: LO mobile phone version])
Hi Ian, all! Before I start - I cross-post this mail to both disc...@tdf and webs...@libo, because I think it could be helpful to collect some requirements concerning the future web infrastructure. For answers, please use the original thread at disc...@tdf. Thanks! The issue: There has been a proposal for a mobile version of LibO. Although being a bit visionary in my opinion, the valid question came up, whether there is a procedure how to propose and to rate such (feature) proposals. People on the lists proposed a dedicated wiki table, or a proposal forum. Some mentioned ratings by the Steering Committee to somehow accept the ideas. The problem isn't that new, so please read on ... Am Freitag, den 05.11.2010, 10:55 + schrieb Ian: On Fri, 2010-11-05 at 11:25 +0100, Dr. Bernhard Dippold wrote: Hi Ian, * Ian Lynch wrote: [...] Establish a simple Forum called proposals. I'd prefer a sortable list at the wiki / website with columns for name, date and proposal (up to 100 char), link to description, bug entry (if already filed), number of votes, necessary resources and proirity. I don't have any strong preferences about the detail of implementation, I was just really looking at the outline procedure. We discussed that intensively within the OOo project some time ago, since there have been many ideas within the User Experience team. The goal was to have a transparent, community driven and developer friendly process to propose and to rate (feature) ideas. One of the larger projects (Ubuntu) maintains a website that is called Ubuntu Brainstorm [1]. You can add any kind of idea that gets a short formal check by moderators - then, anybody can rate the idea and add additional solution ideas. Finally, there are some pretty interesting numbers that can be used to find the high- and lowlights. I started to document ideas for OpenOffice.org (whereas I got plenty of help, e.g. by Ivan doing a mockup for an OOo version [2]). The summary is available at [3] and should summarize what might be helpful for LibO, too. So why didn't we implement that for OOo? The biggest problems were the availability/maintenance of the new website infrastructure (although we got some help within the Sun UX team), and the what to do if people really desire a certain feature when it comes to resources of development. So we concluded that it is not that helpful to collect ideas, if the chance for implementation is close to zero. But there have been ideas. We ended up in creating wiki pages for individual ideas that got tagged by UX Idea [4]. One proposal is here (including rating at the bottom) [5], that I usually announced in the blog [6]. Well, that works only for a few ideas, but not (really) for a number of ideas that developers might be interested to have a look at. So where do we stand now - people do have ideas (threads covering UI Design, icons, ...), there is plenty of discussion (but too much for the mailing lists), and there are more and more interested developers (assumption, but the current activity at the developer lists is just great). So, do we consider this to be helpful? If yes, then please add it to the requirements list for the website infrastructure :-) A last thing - a visual highlight embedded into the (from my point-of-view) very good web infrastructure of KDE: [7]. Cheers, Christoph [1] http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ [2] Example for OOo Brainstorm http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/w/images/2/2d/IdeaHandling_Proposal_IdeaTorrent1.png [3] Summary of potential OpenOffice.org Idea Handling approaches http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org_Idea_Handling [4] UX Ideas in the OOo Wiki http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Category:UX_Idea [5] Example UX Idea http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User_Experience/DocumentCheck [6] UX idea announcement in a blog http://uxopenofficeorg.blogspot.com/2010/01/brainstorm-new-ideas-contextual-undo.html [7] KDE Brainstorm (both a website structure and visual highlight) http://forum.kde.org/brainstorm.php#cat83 -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice UI should be tweaked, not reinvented
Hi Gianluca! Am Mittwoch, den 03.11.2010, 09:01 +0100 schrieb Gianluca Turconi: And, as a 10 years OOo user, I usually don't talk about concepts (theory), but about productivity (reality). Cool! We are definitively on the same side. What counts is usability and productivity ... it is less about if people (dis)like a rectangular area. Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Accessibility (was Java dependency)
Hi Jonathon! Am Mittwoch, den 03.11.2010, 06:47 -0400 schrieb Michael Meeks: On Wed, 2010-11-03 at 02:08 +, jonathon wrote: [... Important Accessibility Stuff ...] Maybe helpful, maybe not ... there has been a talk about the current A11Y status within OOo at the OOoCon this year. Maybe interesting for some guys ... OOo Accessibility - past, present and future Malte Timmermann, Bing Yin http://www.ooocon.org/index.php/ooocon/2010/paper/view/217 Something I hadn't thought of earlier, was what the Libre Colour palette looked like to a person that was colour blind. My colour blind palette only covers the websafe color palette. None of the colours are in that palette. Good thinking; it would be great to ping Christoph Noack on that presumably he has thought at least a bit about it - the monochrome outline is quite good I imagine. Pong! :-) Good points! Jonathan, a question to get a better understanding. With Libre Colour palette, do you mean a) the default color palette within LibreOffice, or b) the LibreOffice Branding Colors [1] (not shipped with LibO)? If the latter, then you are right - when presenting the first beta version of the colors, I skipped some color testing as mentioned here [2]. And as Michael already mentioned, we currently go for high luminance contrast which avoids problems right from the start (although people sometimes find it a bit boring). We really don't perform that bad - as you can see here [3]. It might even require some minutes rendering time - it is a Colorblind Filter I use from time to time. On the right side, there will be a control box that lets you chose different . Currently we refine the colors to make it easier to work with. Some people already added their ideas at [4]. From the branding perspective, it is just difficult to use standard palettes (branding means usually being rather unique). Thus, I plan to do some basic simulation (e.g. with The Gimp) before we finalize the colors. This helps a bit, but ... ... from experience it is known that we have to be careful with colors - not only color blindness, but also cultural differences in what color means to people. However, did that address some of your concerns? I'm happy to hear your opinion and - maybe - some proposals how we can get further improvements. Especially since the colors should be finalized as soon as possible (other related items are stalled at the moment). Thanks! Bye, Christoph [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding#Color_Table [2] http://luxate.blogspot.com/2010/10/united-colors-of-liberty.html [3] http://colorfilter.wickline.org/?a=1;r=;l=0;j=1;u=www.documentfoundation.org;t=p [4] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Ideas#Refined_LibreOffice_Branding_Colors -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice UI should be tweaked, not reinvented
Hi T.J.! Am Dienstag, den 02.11.2010, 13:05 -0500 schrieb T. J. Brumfield: I truly believe the current approach works and should be maintained, but improved. There might be some slight tweaks in how the menus are organized. Toolbar defaults might be optimized. And the overall UI could be shined up with some gloss, new icons, gradients, spot color, etc. Many people asked itself whether some tweaks might make the current UI more usable in the long-run. To make a long story short: no. To address some of your points: * Visual Design: New icons / gradients / gloss doesn't improve the interaction quality, people rely on. We might only get a short positive effect, but no improvement. People will notice that :-) * Cleaning: When designing functionality for the UI, one will notice that the menus itself are the problem. We have far too many small atomic features combined with workflow related topics. Here, our UI doesn't scale (The where to put problem comes up quite regularly). Thus, in the meantime (e.g. the Renaissance Team) improves selected workflows that will finally lead to a better menu structure (because you won't need some of the options any more). But after all, too many features and the (for this kind of application) wrong interaction concept. * Defaults: There is work done on that - the Renaissance team works on Better Defaults already and RGB ES did also propose to work on better defaults (as he also mentioned). This is a very good start - defaults and templates are two dark chapters ;-) * Step-by-step improvements: I hope that we'll be able to improve many things - besides the menus. For example, Mirek put in some nice ideas ... Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibreOffice UI should be tweaked, not reinvented
Hi T.J.! Am Dienstag, den 02.11.2010, 16:27 -0500 schrieb T. J. Brumfield: Restructuring the menus isn't the massive drastic change many people have talked about. I'm fine with restructuring the menus, and encourage it. However, all the Renaissance mock-ups/prototypes I've seen seem to mimic the Ribbon UI. What kind of specification used for implementation you talk about? All of the mock-ups (by the core team) I know about, did include the application menu. So this seems to be different to what you describe. I would like to avoid the term ribbon in such discussions - if possible. I know that many people do have mixed feelings (sometimes very strong opinions) and sometimes require some more substantial knowledge what the Microsoft Fluent concept is about. For example, most people don't know that the often requested live previews part of the ribbon. And to be honest - it is very likely that any good interaction concept that will be proposed will include these live previews, too. Is this bad? The previous paragraph was just my attempt to ask for having a look at the core problem. Many people proposed to clean up / reorganize the menus - this always sounds good, but assumes that it really works (really includes that it is validated with users). We tried, and we found that there are quite inevitable limitations. So I'd like to ask all to also consider something which might imply changes - without the need to clone Microsoft Fluent. That's it for now ... first, let's get a working project to continue such thrilling discussions ;-) Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] [UI] Splash screen
Hi Ivan, Mirek, all! I really would like to overcome my previous telegram style messages and to focus on topics like that I'm very much interested in. Sadly, time is still very limited, so (a bit late) a big thank you to all who invest a lot of time to shape these ideas (some of these are great, e.g. the page is an object idea). Back to the splash screen ... Am Freitag, den 29.10.2010, 19:50 +1300 schrieb Ivan M.: Hi Mirek, On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 5:42 AM, Mirek M. maz...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, Here's my proposal on how to replace the splash screen: http://clickortap.wordpress.com/2010/10/28/splash/. It's fantastic to see your creativity being unleashed here. I really hope we can see some of these ideas in LibreOffice in the near future. The start centre and splash screen are topics that I'm really interested in, especially since Christoph put forward a hybrid proposal on the OOo wiki page he just mentioned. Aehm, do you mean this one? http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:ChristophNoack/Drafts/WelcomeCenter_2010 The Start Center would lose the standard chrome of LibO and stand as a very lightweight application that opens while LibO loads, removing the need for a splash screen. For individual applications (where the Start Center is skipped over), there would be an undistracting notification that the app is opening. The *perceived* speed of startup is something that should really be considered by the designers here. [...] I wonder if a similar analysis could be done with LibreOffice to identify design strategies that enhance the user experience (felt experience) of LibreOffice's start up. Maybe serving as a starting point: There has been (much) work that has been done within OOo already. There is a dedicated project for improving the performance. For example, we (UX) did a survey to identify general problems concerning speed. And Frank worked on something called User Experience Index to rate perceived speed of the software. The project can be found here: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Performance I have some ideas how this could be linked with automated testing to check perceived speed/slowness ... but maybe later :-) Mirek, you've put forward some great ideas and possible solutions, but I think we should analyse the problem in more depth first (if you have any data or did any research on this, please share it with us). Again, a starting point? Along with my Welcome Center 2010 idea, there has been some thinking on how the next StartCenter in OOo should be revised. Frank (the same person, UX team) collected information on the start-up process. (Oh, I see in the wiki page versioning that Mirek already helped with that ... cool!) http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User_Experience/Projects/Start-up_process So I wonder whether there is some interest to form some kind of interest group or even a dedicated UX team. At least, there might be better places than [tdf-discuss] ... or? Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibO program icon brainstorming
Hi Ivan, thanks for the cleanup! And ... Am Samstag, den 30.10.2010, 11:01 +1300 schrieb Ivan M.: Hi all, The number of proposals has grown considerably enough to (IMO) justify their own page, so I have moved the proposals to the Branding section of the marketing wiki: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding/Mimetype_Icons/Proposals There's a link to the new page on the Marketing Ideas wiki page. ... just a few words concerning your recent work: Absolutely great! And a bit more specific: * LibreOffice Banner: * Nice refinement, especially the slight emboss effect for the logo works great. Also the different shaped gradient works very well ... * I am only unsure whether the homogeneous background pattern is still able to repeat the document icon triangle idea. (It still reminds me of the stylish elevator in You Only Live Twice.). * However, I really this style - should this be the basis for the final LibO branding? (Without having any deadlines in mind). * Icons: Just a question - is the lighter region intended? Personally, it irritates me a bit (it is hard for my brain to come up with the 3D equivalent). To me, the first draft felt a bit better (except the slight gradient in the invers-S-element in the Draw icon). * Colors: Blue, green are great. For the orange, yellow and purple color, the lightest shadings seem to be different from its base color (e.g. the lightest orange looks a green on my computer). I'm sure you already invested some time, so this is intended, or? So, how to proceed? May we start to iterate the current LibO colors? Or do you think it might be helpful to further work on your file? At your service, so to say ;-) Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] Better defaults
Hi Sveinn! Am Donnerstag, den 28.10.2010, 07:52 + schrieb Sveinn í Felli: Anyway, I think also that a request of registration during installation [...] +1 Maybe such a popup, asking whether one would like to register and/or send usage data, should be activated a bit later than right after installation ? First time users may think it's a bit bullying/alienating having this coming up right after installation. If this pops up after some days or a certain number of launches, then the users have become a bit accustomed to the software and may thus be a bit less overwhelmed by this additional information. Just a hunch. This is like it is handled today in OpenOffice.org. Unfortunately, there is no connection between registration dialog and OOo Improvement Program dialog. So two separate dialogs appear :-\ http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User_Experience/OpenOffice.org_User_Feedback_Program#Query_Dialog Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Re: [tdf-discuss] [UI] Splash screen
Hi Mirek! Am Donnerstag, den 28.10.2010, 18:42 +0200 schrieb Mirek M.: Hi everyone, Here's my proposal on how to replace the splash screen: http://clickortap.wordpress.com/2010/10/28/splash/. Here are some similar proposals that have been collected for the OOo StartCenter quite some time ago. Also valid for LibO, of course ;-) http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User_Experience/StartCenter#Mockups Up-/Down-Scrolling required ... Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: Email to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Posting guidelines: http://netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html Archive: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived ***
Yellow Color Idea (was: Re: [tdf-discuss] LibO program icon brainstorming)
Hi Jonathon! Am Samstag, den 23.10.2010, 09:33 + schrieb jonathon: On 10/22/2010 10:15 PM, Christoph Noack wrote: And by the way: I also included yellow color idea and updated the proposal which is based on your proposal ... a) What are the Hex values, RGB values and CYMK values for the shades of Yellow that you added? b) Will you be adding the values for yellow to http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding#Colors If we decide to do so - of course :-) The main proposal was done by Bernhard who sent me a color proposal. I just extended the palette and changed the colors a bit. Now it's time to have a look at it and to decide whether it works well on all monitors and if the color addition itself is pleasing. Since we talk about branding colors ... there is a need for balance concerning reduction (improve impact) and completeness (variability, pleasantness). Due to some time restrictions (there is a huge pile of stuff to do), I won't be able to extract the colors. But if there is somebody willing to help out, I can send the SVG file to document the colors on the idea page (which would be great, by the way). If we come to the conclusion that the colors work well, then they will be added here and there (already 5 places or so). Proposal: Let's follow up on libreoffice-marketing for that. Cheers, Christoph -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] [SC] Meeting Minutes 2010-10-20 Available
Hi everyone, the most recent Steering Committee meeting minutes are available: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/Steering_Committee_Meetings#Minutes_2010-10-20 Agenda 2010-10-20: * Update on: get discussion about community structure started (how to define members?) * Website: should we open a LibreOffice website having more product-focus as soon as cms is available * do we want to have developer / user sites seperated or joint as at OOo? * discuss results of the talk between Cor and Martin and consequences for OOo Council members. See OOo council minutes, item 2010-10-14#1 Enjoy ;-) Regards, Christoph -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [tdf-discuss] A copy of MSOffice
Hi! Am Dienstag, den 19.10.2010, 19:35 +0800 schrieb Xi Embalsado: Basically, you NEED to change the UI itself. According to what I've watched in the Renaissance project of OpenOffice.org, they will try a UI that will look like the Ribbon but a more dynamic strip of UI above and below the document contents. After these mockups they actually similar to the ribbon that includes live previews and everything. Change the UI, it's for the best. Many people watched Renaissance activity, but sometimes missed some information bits and pieces. In fact, the it will be a ribbon approach has been highlighted by many people. But primarily it is about workflow improvements that will also have impact on the UI. There is still some degree of freedom ;-) A recommended reading (still): http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Renaissance/FAQ Cheers, Christoph -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] I like the name LibreOffice
Hi Friedrich! Am Dienstag, den 12.10.2010, 23:01 +0200 schrieb Friedrich Strohmaier: Finally there will be several flavors of pronunciation - and good moments if they meat each other! :o)) I hope this was just a typo ;-))) Cheers, Christoph -- To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
[tdf-discuss] Why green? (Blog Posting Advertisement)
Hi everyone, just to do some selfish promotion with regard to our growing planet ... if you are interested in knowing Why green? (blue, maroon, purple), then have a look at: http://planet.documentfoundation.org/ And since the world (planet) moves on, here is the direct link to the blog posting: http://luxate.blogspot.com/2010/10/united-colors-of-liberty.html Cheers, Christoph (who is away for the rest of the day, so he won't be able to comment on replies ... sorry!) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] Proposal for a more updated and modern standard icon theme.
Hi Olav, just a short note concerning the icons - yes, icons are a very visible way of changing the look and the overall appearance of the office suite. I also hope that we will be possible to have some coordinated effort to improve them - e.g. why not partner with the Tango3 team? However, please consider that we talk about thousands of icons that are required ... Stella (Oracle) did a very good job in refreshing the icons in the last years. And the invested a lot of effort ... she showed me (real) folders of icons she printed to improve the underlying methaphors. This is _real_ hard work, but maybe we have brave guys around? ;-) Cheers, Christoph Am Freitag, den 08.10.2010, 16:53 +0200 schrieb Olav Dahlum: Fresh start and fresh look, with the classical interface intact, isn't such a bad idea is it? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: US Group Status ( was: Re: [tdf-discuss] Media contact for the USA )
Hi Drew, hi all, first, I'm really looking forward to see some more activity for LibreOffice in the US :-) Am Donnerstag, den 07.10.2010, 12:00 -0400 schrieb Drew Jensen: Note for instance the name of the ML that will open US-Events, because when we get to talking about things that will happen in physical locations, then yes those locations are in the US and it is IMO good to have this, targeted, communication channel. In another thread, we had some discussion on the website structure. So I had a look at different projects and how they organize things. To me, it seems that some people are interested in one topic - that seems to be like a Special Interest Group. Those SIGs are a less formal way (in comparison to teams) within the Fedora community to address these kind of requests. Besides the language and the general marketing activities... Just a(nother) thought :-) Cheers, Christoph -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] I like the name LibreOffice
Hi Klaus, please don't mind that I respond to your mail ;-) Am Donnerstag, den 07.10.2010, 18:42 +0200 schrieb Klaus Doblmann: Ordinary people have just started to recognise the brand OpenOffice, it might take them years to adapt to a new name. Some minor correction - either OpenOffice.org, or Open Office. Here we see the difficulties with brands in general. So at the moment we do have two different brands (but similar naming), and an .org that gets omitted most of the time. To me, it depends on us - the community - to communicate that new brand. May it be the press, trade fairs or even personal contact with our friends (you know, most of the people using OOo get it recommended by friends or colleagues). The good thing is, the community values didn't change, only the name. So it might cause effort, but it's doable. And for me - personally - it's worth the effort (disclaimer: if there is no way to use OOo). Cheers, Christoph -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] I like the name LibreOffice
Hi Klaus, all! Before I forget it: I really had to smile today when I read some of your messages - starting with the one by Jean. So I took some and compiled a blog posting [1]; I hope that's okay to you. Am Donnerstag, den 07.10.2010, 19:48 +0200 schrieb Klaus Doblmann: On Thu, 07 Oct 2010 19:26:21 +0200 Christoph Noack christoph.no...@documentfoundation.org wrote: [...] Am Donnerstag, den 07.10.2010, 18:42 +0200 schrieb Klaus Doblmann: Ordinary people have just started to recognise the brand OpenOffice, it might take them years to adapt to a new name. Some minor correction - either OpenOffice.org, or Open Office. Here we see the difficulties with brands in general. So at the moment we do have two different brands (but similar naming), and an .org that gets omitted most of the time. Hi Christoph, I was referring to it as OpenOffice because that's what ordinary people on the street call it. That's also why I wouldn't call Libreoffice Libreoffice.org as it might create confusion and saying dot org or Punkt org is something most people won't do and don't want to do because it's - for most - not clear to pronounce. You addressed a good point here - people skip the .org and therefore it is a less good name with regard to a product name. Moreover, even the press missed/omitted the .org part. However, when the name was chosen, there was a reason for this. Luckily, there is no need to add a .org to LibreOffice (although it is a real .org product *g*). To me, it depends on us - the community - to communicate that new brand. May it be the press, trade fairs or even personal contact with our friends (you know, most of the people using OOo get it recommended by friends or colleagues). Definitely! I've already switched a few people over - that's how it's done. But it'll be difficult to get - especially the mainstream- media behind the new concept (and abandon OOo more or less) but that will also be the effort of us as a community. Im currently studying to get my master's degree in media and communications (in the Bavarian city Passau) so that would definitely be a field where I could/would help out - if, as you said, there's no way to continue using the name OOo. Wow! First, the media and communications (that's really interesting to me, by the way), and second, that you are living in Passau. Do you have any connections to the rest of the German community. As far as I know, they are rather active in the south. Back to your great offer - did you already subscribe to the marketing list? My mail program tells me that you are on l10n and tdf-discuss ... so don't miss it :-) Enjoy your evening! Christoph [1] http://luxate.blogspot.com/2010/10/thats-what-others-say-i-like-name.html also on http://planet.documentfoundation.org/ -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Move and ... Re: [tdf-discuss] [WEBSITE] Improvements for the wiki?
Hi Benjamin, all, thanks for your kind offer! But before I continue - many of you may have noticed that we know have some dedicated website mailing list. It is meant for coordination of all the web presence stuff like the Website, the Wiki, the Planet, ... So I propose to continue our discussion there, once all the interested people are subscribed. You http://www.documentfoundation.org/contact/ Am Dienstag, den 05.10.2010, 20:03 -0400 schrieb Benjamin Horst: Clearly, multilingual support will be very important to a successful wiki. Will we have pages generated in one language and then translated to others, or do we expect unique pages to be developed in lots of languages? My guess is that we need to support both--core content will be translated and mirrored in many languages, while certain content (especially local projects, for example) will generate new unique content in their languages. I've investigated briefly and found this possible approach to the problem: http://foswiki.org/Extensions/TopicTranslationsPlugin I talked with the current he does a lot of things at the same time-admin and it seems that he proposes MediaWiki. So I asked him for resolving the language issue ... and there are two answers at the moment: a) If we are fine with an English only / mixed language wiki, then we might get a wiki tomorrow. b) If we require to handle the language thing in a nice way, then some more preparations are required that will need a bit more time. Concerning the latter, I had a look how Wikipedia handles that ... this seems good to me. As far as I understood, there is a need for a Wiki family that can inter-link several wikis. Each of the wikis is then accessible via an own sub-domain ... the search will work fine, and resources like images could be shared. That is what I (a less technical guy) understands ... Is there anybody (on this list) who has some experience with that? :-) I also strongly support Regina's earlier points, especially regarding the licensing of content community members add. That may be something to add to the footer of each page in the wiki. Absolutely! We are really aware of that, since the license is important if we want to share our work ... [...] Just a question: Do you expect news to be in the Wiki, or on the rather website? Or both? I'd like us to consider using the wiki for the website, or at least for a large part of it. (My comment above, why not use the wiki for the main part of the site... was meant to convey that idea.) Ahh, okay. Since we don't have a dedicated website for LibreOffice yet, this would be more than fine. Still, I do like the front page of the Fedora Wiki very much (hint hint *g*). Regardless of whether we decide on using the wiki for the main site, I think a strong case can be made to use it to manage our News page. (I would not recommend duplicating content, News or other, on both the wiki and separately elsewhere on the site. We should ultimately choose just one location, wherever it is.) Agreed :-) Cheers, Christoph -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] [WEBSITE] Improvements for the wiki?
Hi Nino! I try to add some thoughts to better understand what my intention is. Skipping the Wiki discussion a bit and go to ... Am Mittwoch, den 06.10.2010, 11:45 +0200 schrieb Nino Novak: [...] A wiki is a wiki is a wiki - so just set one up and let it self-organize. Do not define too much contstraints in advance. It's less about constraints, but to provide some basis to work on it. Once we get the wiki, it will be (or maybe become) our primary platform to share information. So my aim is to reduce the initial hurdles ... The problem I see (and have addressed in the other mail) are: - who are *we* ??? Basically, tdf has announced its foundation. Some people are setting up an OOo fork infrastructure. Other do not like to mention the word fork at all. Therefore, I strongly suggest to set up an empty wiki and NOT make the mistake to make any assumption about it structure in advance. At least for me, TDF seems to aim to develop (in general terms) the best ODF-user-interface possible. But still nobody knows if forking OOo is the way to go or - just to bring in some differet ideas - integrating KOffice code with OOo code?, or setting up a product independend worldwide ODF QA community which just organizes testing? or doing mainly UX work? Or... we simply don't know. Let's have a look at the mission by those, who want to establish TDF: [...] We will protect past investments by building on the solid achievements of our first decade [...] Project investments means, that it is - at the moment - primarily about LibreOffice when talking about software. A piece of software, where we (all together) invested a lot of effort. It is still be developed and it requires maintenance. Thus, we can learn a lot from the past/current experiences when developing OpenOffice.org. So - at least this is my take - we can get a clear high-level understanding what will be required. Having the TDF, there is also the potential to enhance the software or to start real new things ... and now, it nicely fits to your proposals. And - what structure do all the people involved want? How do we organize? Who will be responsible for what? How do we want to organize decision processes? Representative elections? and so on... Therefore my guess is: let the community decide! I think you are aware of the mail by André who provided some brief statement what the current status is - with regard to the TDF group. However, I don't understand yet why things like shaping a front page, or doing some rough categorization like Website, Marketing, ... heavily affects the processes you are talking about. It is just a wiki, that has to be filled with content and will be refined over time. We just provide a starting point ... and referring to your latter statement: we are the community, and we are here at the very moment ;-) Absolutely, that is the reason for my questions :-) Most of you are already actively using wikis, so why not learn from your experience right from the start? Because our experiences are related to different communities / groups. If this would be true, then somebody would just create something. Of course, this somebody hopes that this might be the perfect solution, but there are other people who do have a different opinion. Now we are in the dilemma of User Experience ... shaping something for people with different tasks, background, culture, ... and at the end it shall still work well. The good thing is, that many people interested in FLOSS and LibreOffice are already here to discuss their experiences and their expectations. So I expect a rather good outcome :-) [...] And concerning users of the wiki, Liz (being part of the OOo UX Team), did a survey last year to check whether people are happy with the OOoWiki: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/a_peek_at_the_wiki Do you really just want to copy OOowiki and apply some improvements? Well, it's one possibility, but my feeling about this new community which is just about starting to form - they should be given a solid infrastructure but not told where to go. It seems we talk about different levels of structure. I am talking about something similar to our website mailing list. So we might get a website category and a website start page. That's it ... does it enforce how to work with it? To me, it just makes things discoverable when people start to add content (documentation, best practices, ...). Currently, I lack some more details, but hey, why are we here? All that said, I'd prefere to have a wiki farm for different languages and not one multilanguage wiki - just to enhance usability (mainly the search function). It seems that we get quite a pile of related to language requirements. yes, the international collaboration should be supported as good as possible :) Not only the international collaboration, any kind of collaboration. And so we can GOTO 10 ;-) Cheers, Christoph
Re: [tdf-discuss] New name
Hi Andy! Am Montag, den 04.10.2010, 17:03 -0700 schrieb Andy Brown: On Mon Oct 04 2010 16:29:37 GMT-0700 (PDT) Christoph Noack wrote: Am Montag, den 04.10.2010, 16:10 -0700 schrieb Andy Brown: On Mon Oct 04 2010 15:12:06 GMT-0700 (PDT) Christoph Noack wrote: Martin, from Oracle, was linking to this article: http://tinyurl.com/36u3ksn Well, a person from Oracle referred to that article ... so they might also know where they put that statement. :-) It would be interesting to get a copy of the comment. Indeed :-) But then we have to ask Graham, whether he is so kind to tell us where to find Martin's mail. It has already been cited by Kürti on this list: http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/msg00282.html A repeat of the news article. Aha. But what you mean? :-) Cheers, Christoph -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] New name
Good evening Graham! Am Dienstag, den 05.10.2010, 19:24 +1300 schrieb Graham Lauder: Thorsten, Charles and Christoph, please accept abject apologies. I shall now go hide in a hole somewheres. Oh, please do not :-) I owe you a lot of respect to state this here, really. Vice versa, please (everyone) please accept our apologies if things sometimes don't work like expected. Especially if it takes us so long to resolve such a (rather) small mis-understanding. So please let's continue to work together ... at the end, it is about the value of the idea :-) Bye, Christoph -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] New name
Hi Friedrich, hi Andy! Am Dienstag, den 05.10.2010, 23:55 +0200 schrieb Friedrich Strohmaier: Indeed :-) But then we have to ask Graham, whether he is so kind to tell us where to find Martin's mail. I think Andy expects - like I do - that Oracle one of the big companies worldwide is able to give an official statement. This isn´t true yet. The info mentioned aparently was passed to computerworld: http://blogs.computerworld.com/17097/the_openoffice_fork_is_officially_here Seems, they have to stay hidden for some reason. ;o)) Personally, the statement we are currently referring to, is the only one I am aware of. Moreover, I am also unaware of any official (like some of us expect) statement for any of the other projects there are working on. So at least I cannot tell you more, although I'd like to :-) Cheers, Christoph -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] TDF and KOffice
Hi André, thanks for answering this question... Am Dienstag, den 05.10.2010, 15:04 +0200 schrieb Andre Schnabel: Hi, Is there any collaboration between KDE's KOffice and TDF? there is no formal agreement, you know - we are very new in the game :) But people work together at several levels. E.g KOffice and people from TDF both work on ODF standard conformance. Christoph Noack had several talks with KOffice people regarding UX related work (although they have much better technical options that we have, they face similar problems when it comes to workflows ...). If anybody is interested in some details, here is the link to my CeBit 2010 Experience :-) http://uxopenofficeorg.blogspot.com/2010/03/cebit2010-ribbonator.html In general, I hope that we can improve the collaboration with the other projects like KOffice, OpenUsability.org, ... at least, they share a very similar vision. Cheers, Christoph -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] [WEBSITE] Improvements for the wiki?
Hi Benjamin, great collection :-) Am Dienstag, den 05.10.2010, 07:38 -0400 schrieb Benjamin Horst: I agree that overthinking and overburdening a wiki with rigid process is harmful, but some upfront organization and planning is still necessary. Yes, rigid processes are harmful for a wiki - even if they want to achieve something good. But as you already point out, I'd like to guide some people initially, to not get lost. If one doesn't find information, then it is like nobody ever published it :-\ Some major sections that could be defined in the wiki: - Site Home (why not use the wiki for the main part of the site, including the homepage and download page?) - Documentation (bring this dynamic and enthusiastic group back home to the main site) - Development (public planning and release schedule) - Community Council (private section, if desired) - News Just a question: Do you expect news to be in the Wiki, or on the rather website? Or both? - Events - Marketing and Advocacy - Design and Artwork - Teams and Projects By the way, I really like the idea of Special Interest Groups at Fedora. - More? Most presumably yes :-) So thanks for the great start! Adding to Christoph's list of other project wikis: * Mozilla https://wiki.mozilla.org/Main_Page * Ubuntu https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ Interesting, Ubuntu seems to separate the official Documentation (Wiki) and the do the work wiki. * Foswiki http://foswiki.org/Home/WebHome Mmh, din't knew that. Thanks! Benjamin, thanks for the comments ... most appreciated! Christoph Cheers, just my 2 Cents: On Monday 04 October 2010 23:54, Christoph Noack wrote: ... Step forward, and share your thoughts, too, please! But how to get started ... I mean ... without a wiki to document the statements. A wiki is a wiki is a wiki - so just set one up and let it self-organize. Do not define too much contstraints in advance. Do not define too special rules in beforehead but rather let them evolve. People in free projects tend to be very constructive, so let them do their work. The final decision which wiki engine to take should be made by the prospective core admins (as they will have to handle it). A bad engine with a good admin is far better than a good engine with a poor admin. Rules should be made only _after_ a certain period of experience. And they should be defined by the users of the wiki. All that said, I'd prefere to have a wiki farm for different languages and not one multilanguage wiki - just to enhance usability (mainly the search function). Nino -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] [WEBSITE] Improvements for the wiki?
Hi Benjamin, I'm sorry for answering your second mail first ... I totally missed this one. So to make it easy for me, thank you very much for this (your) introduction ... and also the hint Foswiki. I'm those guys who will set up the wiki technically, will have a look at it (just for the record: if I am the one who should set it up, we might never have one *g*). I'd be more than happy if you help us to get the wiki in a good shape. Cheers, Christoph Am Montag, den 04.10.2010, 19:52 -0400 schrieb Benjamin Horst: Thanks, Christoph. I've long been interested in wikis and the capabilities they can provide, the data structures and usage patterns that tend to work well, and the various wiki platforms available. -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] [WEBSITE] Improvements for the wiki?
Hi Nino! Am Dienstag, den 05.10.2010, 10:08 +0200 schrieb Nino Novak: [...] On Monday 04 October 2010 23:54, Christoph Noack wrote: ... Step forward, and share your thoughts, too, please! But how to get started ... I mean ... without a wiki to document the statements. A wiki is a wiki is a wiki - so just set one up and let it self-organize. Do not define too much contstraints in advance. It's less about constraints, but to provide some basis to work on it. Once we get the wiki, it will be (or maybe become) our primary platform to share information. So my aim is to reduce the initial hurdles ... [...] True :-) But basically, the wiki engine should fit our needs - the technical and the non-technical ones. Rules should be made only _after_ a certain period of experience. And they should be defined by the users of the wiki. Absolutely, that is the reason for my questions :-) Most of you are already actively using wikis, so why not learn from your experience right from the start? And concerning users of the wiki, Liz (being part of the OOo UX Team), did a survey last year to check whether people are happy with the OOoWiki: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/a_peek_at_the_wiki Currently, I lack some more details, but hey, why are we here? All that said, I'd prefere to have a wiki farm for different languages and not one multilanguage wiki - just to enhance usability (mainly the search function). It seems that we get quite a pile of related to language requirements. Thanks, and good night! Christoph -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
[tdf-discuss] [WEBSITE] Improvements for the wiki?
Good evening everyone, the subject already tells you, this mail is about Wiki improvements. What Wiki? you might ask. Correct, there is none ... but if we want to change that, it'll be great to know what we require. Once it is set up, I'm confident that a reasonable structure will greatly help us. I assume that our Wiki will be used by all kinds of community members - being it users, all kinds of contributors, the final foundation people. And it will be used for very different things, e.g. planning conferences, documenting best practices, providing documentation. Well, although there are still discussions whether we need team ABZ or XYZ ... some topics can't be avoided to shape a complex thing like LibreOffice. As far as I understand, many of you have a great experience to work with tools like Wikis. Very good! And - also my hope - we will also hear some voices who are less experienced. Step forward, and share your thoughts, too, please! But how to get started ... I mean ... without a wiki to document the statements. My proposal is to collect some experiences when working with Wiki content (not so much the Wiki system itself) ... what is good, what can be improved? It would be great if you could explain why, e.g. I always find everything I need within a few clicks., and stating what you usually do (e.g. QA work). And you may add what you expect from a website - being different from a wiki. Just to give you an idea, I've picked some of the larger projects to state examples. A certain size is required, since we are complex too ... but we don't want to be complicated. Feel free to add any kind of project you like to refer to... * Fedora Project Wiki https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Project_Wiki * Gnome Live! http://live.gnome.org/ * KDE Wiki http://wiki.kde.org/ * Apache General Wiki http://wiki.apache.org/general/ At the moment, it seems appropriate to use this mailing list. But, I'm sure we'll have a dedicated website list tomorrow or Wednesday latest. So please also decide what to do ... discuss it here, or wait for the list. It is up to us :-) Thank you so much! Cheers, Christoph -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] New name
Hi Jean! Thanks for pointing that out ... Am Dienstag, den 05.10.2010, 08:02 +1000 schrieb Jean Hollis Weber: On Mon, 2010-10-04 at 23:36 +0200, Thorsten Behrens wrote: Graham Lauder wrote: Oracle made an interim response, do we have link to that somewhere. Martin, from Oracle, was linking to this article: http://tinyurl.com/36u3ksn That article refers to a statement from Oracle. Where is that statement? I don't consider a media report an authoritative source. ... please have a closer look. The statement has been divided in several parts, so anytime Oracle said appears, this really is their statement. Does that help? Cheers, Christoph -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] Website status?
Hi Jonathan! Am Montag, den 04.10.2010, 14:31 +0200 schrieb Florian Effenberger: Hi Jonathan, Am 04.10.2010 um 14:08 schrieb jzacsh: So I'm just looking for a definitive answer: Will anyone be giving us access to any way we can help with the website? I'd hate to be pushy, but I wake up with 70 emails a morning from the discuss list and I'd like to help with what I'm knowledgeable in. There's no way I'm reading through some kind of digest just to see if the website has been addressed. Well said ... true! And to be honest, each of us has some sort of interest and therefore an idea how to help. So our interest is also in having some better infrastructure / organization. By the way, to me it seems that we should go on and separate the LibO and the TDF page in some way. What's your perception, when to do that? sorry for the delay - we're working hard on the infrastructure, and will see some news this week. There soon will also be news for the website. Stay tuned ;) Florian, I really know what you currently invest in terms of effort. Thanks for that! And also thanks to all on this list, especially since we ask you for some patience at the moment. I think we are just overwhelmed by all your kind and also critical feedback ... Cheers, Christoph -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
Re: [tdf-discuss] Explanation . . . ?
Hi Sophie, hi Marc! Am Samstag, den 02.10.2010, 10:21 +0200 schrieb Sophie: I don't know if I missed this or not, maybe Sophie could answer this, but, have Go-oo, OxygenOffice, NeoOffice and Symphony express any interest in joining forces with LibreOffice. I also agree that it would be nice if we could all eliminated the duplication. Actually only Symphony didn't join yet, the other guys are there. As far as I can see it, there is only few cooperation between the former OpenOffice.org and the IBM Lotus Symphony team. But - this is the good message - the situation seems to improve in general. Since quite some time, I see more and more talking on the list and also at conferences (e.g. the OOoCon). I hope we all are able to improve that in the near future. Thus, we may learn from each other ... whether this is how problems are addressed or whether this may be code. And for those who might not believe ... there is a minor contribution by my side in Symphony. Based on discussion between the IBM Lotus Symphony UX Team and the OOo UX Team ;-) Cheers, Christoph -- To unsubscribe, send an empty e-mail to discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/
