Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Issue?

[Lee Hiers]

Thanks Mike - it was an ID-10T error:  I had the RX antenna selected with
nothing on the RX antenna port.

73 de Lee, AA4GA


On Thu, May 11, 2023 at 9:47 PM Michael Carter  wrote:

> Hi Lee,
>
> Do you also have a reduced RX signal level
> on 30 meters as well as 20 meters, at least
> by comparison with your KX3?
>
> Since the TX output is OK, I will hazard a
> guess that one of the relays in the
> 20/30M bandpass filter is not making
> good contact or has developed a weak
> solder joint on the RF board.  While that
> should also reduce the TX output, the
> TX Power control loop may compensate
> enough to make the added loss through
> the relay less noticeable.
>
> I would carefully inspect all solder joints
> in the 20/30M bandpass filter circuit,
> maybe do the same for the lowpass
> filter.  I would try gently pressing on the
> relay casings while listening to a good
> strong signal on 20 meters and 30 meters
> to see if there is an audible change in RX signal
> level.
>
> 73,
> Mike, K8CN
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Issue?

[Michael Carter]

Hi Lee,

Do you also have a reduced RX signal level
on 30 meters as well as 20 meters, at least
by comparison with your KX3?

Since the TX output is OK, I will hazard a
guess that one of the relays in the
20/30M bandpass filter is not making
good contact or has developed a weak
solder joint on the RF board.  While that
should also reduce the TX output, the
TX Power control loop may compensate
enough to make the added loss through
the relay less noticeable.

I would carefully inspect all solder joints
in the 20/30M bandpass filter circuit,
maybe do the same for the lowpass
filter.  I would try gently pressing on the
relay casings while listening to a good
strong signal on 20 meters and 30 meters
to see if there is an audible change in RX signal
level.

73,
Mike, K8CN
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Issue?

[Gary K9GS]

Glad you got it sorted out Lee73,Gary K9GS
 Original message From: Lee Hiers  Date: 
5/11/23  5:21 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: Elecraft Mailing List 
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Issue? I thought about 
quoting Jack Nicholson from A Few Good Men when he said"well don't I feel like 
a" but thought better of it.100% operator error.  As diagnosed by N7GP and 
W0GHZ, I had my RX antennabutton pushed.  I don't have an RX antenna, so I 
never push it...onpurpose.I'm glad it wasn't a problem like K9GS had...although 
I had suspectedsomething like that.All looks well now - thanks everyone for the 
help.73 de Lee, AA4GAOn Thu, May 11, 2023 at 11:38 AM Lee Hiers 
 wrote:> Hi All,>> Recently I've noticed that signal 
levels have been down on 20m on my> K3/10.  At first, I thought it was just 
band condx and didn't pay much> attention to it, but over the weekend I 
switched to the KX3 and signals> were much better - S-meter, P(X)3, and my 
ears...like maybe 30dB or so.  40> meters seems fine on the K3.  I think I'm OK 
on 15m and up as well, but I'm> not 100% sure I listened there.>> Output is 
normal on 20m.>> I've checked the preamp and attenuator on/off and those don't 
seem to be> the issue.>> Obviously, I need to do some more digging on this 
before I contact> Elecraft service, but I was wondering if anyone had any 
ideas?>> 73 de Lee, 
AA4GA>>>>__Elecraft 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Issue?

[Lee Hiers]

I thought about quoting Jack Nicholson from A Few Good Men when he said
"well don't I feel like a" but thought better of it.

100% operator error.  As diagnosed by N7GP and W0GHZ, I had my RX antenna
button pushed.  I don't have an RX antenna, so I never push it...on
purpose.

I'm glad it wasn't a problem like K9GS had...although I had suspected
something like that.

All looks well now - thanks everyone for the help.

73 de Lee, AA4GA



On Thu, May 11, 2023 at 11:38 AM Lee Hiers  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Recently I've noticed that signal levels have been down on 20m on my
> K3/10.  At first, I thought it was just band condx and didn't pay much
> attention to it, but over the weekend I switched to the KX3 and signals
> were much better - S-meter, P(X)3, and my ears...like maybe 30dB or so.  40
> meters seems fine on the K3.  I think I'm OK on 15m and up as well, but I'm
> not 100% sure I listened there.
>
> Output is normal on 20m.
>
> I've checked the preamp and attenuator on/off and those don't seem to be
> the issue.
>
> Obviously, I need to do some more digging on this before I contact
> Elecraft service, but I was wondering if anyone had any ideas?
>
> 73 de Lee, AA4GA
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX does not always work at power up

[David Hachadorian]

Does your K3 have gold pins on the front panel connector?  The old 
tinned pins were apt to cause a lot of weird/intermittent problems.


Glad you were able to fix the D25 issue.

Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, AZ

On 11/2/2022 9:54 AM, George Fremin III wrote:


The K3 that went deaf and I replaced D25 in - has had another issue
that I have not understood - and it is only annoying when it happens.

Sometimes I will turn it on and it all seems fine but it hears zero
signals - it is not that it is deaf it is more like it is not
working. It does have receiver hiss that makes you think it is fine
and it seems to transmit (although I have not tried to listen to it to
confirm) but it just does not work at a receiver.

I should try the TX next time.

Power cycling the radio once or twice usually makes it work right away
and it is fine.  It does not fail like this at every power on.

This radio is being used as a remote radio - and I leave it on almost
all the time - that is one reason this is not been more of an issue
and often I forget it does this - until I power it on.  Like last
night after replacing D25 - and the radio seemed deaf - but even more
deaf than before as it coudl not even fainly here the signal
generator.  Then I remembered the power on issue and I turned it off
and back on and it came to life.

It is an older K3 that has been mostly upgraded to a K3S.
Single receiver.
2m module.
Newer pre amp.
USB interface.
RX ant ports.

Anyone recall seeing this symptom before?

Thanks


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX does not always work at power up

[David Sumner]

George, something like that happened to me a while ago. Reloading the firmware 
fixed it.

73,
Dave K1ZZ

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 2, 2022, at 12:56 PM, George Fremin III  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> The K3 that went deaf and I replaced D25 in - has had another issue
> that I have not understood - and it is only annoying when it happens.
> 
> Sometimes I will turn it on and it all seems fine but it hears zero
> signals - it is not that it is deaf it is more like it is not
> working. It does have receiver hiss that makes you think it is fine
> and it seems to transmit (although I have not tried to listen to it to
> confirm) but it just does not work at a receiver.
> 
> I should try the TX next time. 
> 
> Power cycling the radio once or twice usually makes it work right away
> and it is fine.  It does not fail like this at every power on.
> 
> This radio is being used as a remote radio - and I leave it on almost
> all the time - that is one reason this is not been more of an issue
> and often I forget it does this - until I power it on.  Like last
> night after replacing D25 - and the radio seemed deaf - but even more
> deaf than before as it coudl not even fainly here the signal
> generator.  Then I remembered the power on issue and I turned it off
> and back on and it came to life.
> 
> It is an older K3 that has been mostly upgraded to a K3S.
> Single receiver. 
> 2m module.
> Newer pre amp.
> USB interface.
> RX ant ports. 
> 
> Anyone recall seeing this symptom before?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> -- 
> George Fremin III - K5TR
> geo...@kkn.net
> http://www.kkn.net/~k5tr
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX dead 80/20 meters

[Jim Kennedy]

Tnx Vic, yes Mike K6MKF pointed that out to me also and that was the problem. 
Operator error once again. Thanks guys ! Now, excuse me while I go wash the egg 
off my face.  This is an awesome group.

Jim
W7OUU

- Original Message -
From: "Vic Rosenthal" 
To: "Jim Kennedy" 
Cc: "elecraft" 
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2020 10:49:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX dead 80/20 meters

RX ANT not activated on 80 and 20?

Victor 4X6GP 

> On 1 Oct 2020, at 6:58, Jim Kennedy  wrote:
> 
> Hello all, I need some help ! My K3 s/n 3378 has gone deaf on 80 and 20 
> meters, all other bands are good. It does not have a second receiver 
> installed. I have confirmed the receive signal on the other bands is good 
> with my HP 8640B signal generator. I can get a signal thru it on 80/20 meters 
> but it takes a ton of RF from the signal generator. The attenuator is not on 
> nor the preamp. The internal antenna tuner works as expected. I have normal 
> power out on all bands including 80/20 meters measured with a Bird 43 and 
> Bird dummy load. Any help would be much appreciated. 
> 
> Jim 
> W7OUU 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX dead 80/20 meters

[Vic Rosenthal]

RX ANT not activated on 80 and 20?

Victor 4X6GP 

> On 1 Oct 2020, at 6:58, Jim Kennedy  wrote:
> 
> Hello all, I need some help ! My K3 s/n 3378 has gone deaf on 80 and 20 
> meters, all other bands are good. It does not have a second receiver 
> installed. I have confirmed the receive signal on the other bands is good 
> with my HP 8640B signal generator. I can get a signal thru it on 80/20 meters 
> but it takes a ton of RF from the signal generator. The attenuator is not on 
> nor the preamp. The internal antenna tuner works as expected. I have normal 
> power out on all bands including 80/20 meters measured with a Bird 43 and 
> Bird dummy load. Any help would be much appreciated. 
> 
> Jim 
> W7OUU 
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX ant without KXV3?

[Keith Trinity WE6R]

There are two jumpers on J66 (either wire ones in the socket,,, OR on 
OLD boards, you cut jumpers on the RF board).

See schematic and see the silk screen for jumpers W1 & W2

It is nice to have a receiver there because it bypasses the LPF 
circuitry, a MUST for Lowfer operation!

I jack IN there for testing boards.
**Remember the TX goes thru that too, so you would have to manage that too.

HOWEVER:
I have upgraded MANY radios to the new KXV3B, so there are PLENTY of 
folks that have their old KXV3 boards!

You might also need:
Escutcheon E100224SS
Two longer bolts E700177
Might as well get the IF out cable too E850292
Keith WE6R


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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX ant without KXV3?

[Martin Sole]

Hi Ilya,

This might be possible. Take a look at it he K3 schematics. Before I found a 
KXV3 I was considering this, certainly the IF out. 

As I recall on the main board there is a connector with the rf in and out. 
These are jumpered on the main board when no KXV3is fitted.

Then there should be a control signal to switch the relays for rx antenna 
routing. 

I think if you are reasonably technically proficient you can produce a way to 
make this work for you. You can probably do away with the relays if you use a 
jumper or manual switch when you don’t want the rx in-outfunction.

Martin, HS0ZED


Sent from my iPad

> On 4 Oct 2019, at 03:10, Ilya  wrote:
> 
> Hi mates!
> 
> Is there a way to connect an RX antenna without using a KXV3 option?
> I've got an IF-output socket connected directly to P86 on RF board on one
> of my K3's, maybe there is a similar way for an RX ant?
> 
> Thanks and 73!
> Ilya R3XA
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX IN/OUT and Splitters

[Don Wilhelm]

Frank,

You are definitely on the right track.

The RX IN/OUT jacks are for the insertion of an external preamplifier or 
a splitter to tap off the main TX antenna.  If using only RX IN, that 
antenna input will be used when you select RX ANT.


Since you are using a separate RX antenna and want to split it to the K3 
as well as another receiver, put the "T" or splitter on the antenna, one 
output to the K3 RX IN and the 2nd to the other receiver.
On the K3, you will have to activate the RX ANT - if you do not, the 
receive will be from the main TX antenna.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/6/2018 6:15 PM, Frank VO1HP wrote:

I am want to split my BOG RX antenna between my K3 RX IN jack and the ANT
port on my AFEDRI-LAN SDR at my remote site.  I am going to access the SDR
remotely using SDR Console and run CW SKIMMER on the ARRL DX Contest PC in
the home shack.  My K3 has no built in Tuner and no 2nd RX.

I have been  looking at various schemes people are using to split antenna
feeds.  Some are using a splitter between the RX IN/OUT jacks on the K3.
  What is the point of doing that?  The MAIN Ant port is always used as TX
antenna.  When  RX  ANT (Tap) is activated the RX IN Port is connected to
the RX/TX and the MAIN ANT Port is connected to the RX OUT port.   I see
people talking about the RX ANT "LOOP" .  As far as I can see there is no
RX ANT "LOOP".  What is the point of the splitter between those those two
jacks.?  The jacks are labelled RX IN and RX OUT.  The labels imply that
the RX antenna also appears at the RX OUT jack but that is not the case.

I am just going to connect a BNC "T" in the BOG RG6 line at the radio  and
feed the K3 RX IN port and the AFEDRI-LAN ANT port.  If that doesn't work
satisfactorily ...I'll use a passive splitter in the RG6.


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Equalizer

[Don Wilhelm]

Chris,

To set the levels for DATA modes on Elecraft transceivers, see my 
website www.w3fpr.com.  Go to the bottom of the left column and click 
the link.


Yes, the Elecraft transceivers are different than other radios - you 
must first set the audio level to produce 4 bars with the 5th bar 
flashing on the ALC meter.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 12/29/2017 4:02 PM, Chris Hallinan wrote:

Hi, Lyle.

Thanks for helping me understand the K3 even better ;)

I'm working on building a remote solution using remotehams.com software.  I
hope I can use my SignaLink USB as the TX/RX audio interface to the
server.  I can hear very nicely on the remote (same room still!), but the
transmit audio seems very low.  Basically I've set MIC SEL to LineIn, and
selected my SignaLink USB as the audio source for the server.  I'm still
experimenting with levels, etc, and that's what led to the question.

Best regards,

Chris
K1AY


On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Lyle Johnson  wrote:


Yes.

73,

Lyle KK7P


On 12/29/17 9:53 AM, Chris Hallinan wrote:


I understand that the K3 has two separate equalizer settings for CW and
SSB.  I also understand it is not active in the Data modes.

However, there are four sources of audio output:

1) Internal Speaker
2) SPKRS (rear panel)
3) Phones (front panel)
4) Line Out (rear panel)

Does the equalizer operate for all four outputs?

Thanks,

Chris
K1AY



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Equalizer

[Jim Brown]

On 12/29/2017 12:52 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:

That would suggest that using hi-cut is a better choice than RX EQ for cutting 
high frequency hiss. The ultimate rejection for hi-cut is greater than the max 
RX EQ cut, right?


The smarter guys writing software for digital modes have finally learned 
what we learned in the world of pro audio at least 40 years ago -- 
filters introduce phase shift, and both our ears decoding speech and 
software decoding digital signals don't like the time smear that comes 
with it. In general, the steeper the amplitude response, the more phase 
shift occurs in the passband.


Current recommendations for RTTY decoding is 500 Hz bandwidth, and this 
is echoed by guys who regularly WIN major RTTY contests. Indeed, the 
double-hump RTTY filter built into firmware for K3/K3S/KX2/KX3 is no 
longer recommended. K1JT urges WSJT-X users to run the receiver IF wide 
open and let the software do the discrimination between signals. I set 
my K3 IF to its widest settings.


The same thing happens when narrow filters are used on CW in the 
presence of static -- the crashes ring the filters, defeating the 
purpose of reducing overall noise level. K3/K3S firmware has some 
specially shaped filters to minimize this effect. RTFM to learn about them.


73, Jim K9YC

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Equalizer

[Nr4c]

So I’m correct. The EQ is disabled in digital modes. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Dec 29, 2017, at 4:02 PM, Chris Hallinan  wrote:
> 
> Hi, Lyle.
> 
> Thanks for helping me understand the K3 even better ;)
> 
> I'm working on building a remote solution using remotehams.com software.  I
> hope I can use my SignaLink USB as the TX/RX audio interface to the
> server.  I can hear very nicely on the remote (same room still!), but the
> transmit audio seems very low.  Basically I've set MIC SEL to LineIn, and
> selected my SignaLink USB as the audio source for the server.  I'm still
> experimenting with levels, etc, and that's what led to the question.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Chris
> K1AY
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Lyle Johnson  wrote:
>> 
>> Yes.
>> 
>> 73,
>> 
>> Lyle KK7P
>> 
>> 
>>> On 12/29/17 9:53 AM, Chris Hallinan wrote:
>>> 
>>> I understand that the K3 has two separate equalizer settings for CW and
>>> SSB.  I also understand it is not active in the Data modes.
>>> 
>>> However, there are four sources of audio output:
>>> 
>>> 1) Internal Speaker
>>> 2) SPKRS (rear panel)
>>> 3) Phones (front panel)
>>> 4) Line Out (rear panel)
>>> 
>>> Does the equalizer operate for all four outputs?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Chris
>>> K1AY
>>> 
>>> 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Life is like Linux - it never stands still.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Equalizer

[Chris Hallinan]

Hi, Lyle.

Thanks for helping me understand the K3 even better ;)

I'm working on building a remote solution using remotehams.com software.  I
hope I can use my SignaLink USB as the TX/RX audio interface to the
server.  I can hear very nicely on the remote (same room still!), but the
transmit audio seems very low.  Basically I've set MIC SEL to LineIn, and
selected my SignaLink USB as the audio source for the server.  I'm still
experimenting with levels, etc, and that's what led to the question.

Best regards,

Chris
K1AY


On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Lyle Johnson  wrote:

> Yes.
>
> 73,
>
> Lyle KK7P
>
>
> On 12/29/17 9:53 AM, Chris Hallinan wrote:
>
>> I understand that the K3 has two separate equalizer settings for CW and
>> SSB.  I also understand it is not active in the Data modes.
>>
>> However, there are four sources of audio output:
>>
>> 1) Internal Speaker
>> 2) SPKRS (rear panel)
>> 3) Phones (front panel)
>> 4) Line Out (rear panel)
>>
>> Does the equalizer operate for all four outputs?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Chris
>> K1AY
>>
>>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Equalizer

[Walter Underwood]

That would suggest that using hi-cut is a better choice than RX EQ for cutting 
high frequency hiss. The ultimate rejection for hi-cut is greater than the max 
RX EQ cut, right?

Does the KX3 work the same way? I would assume so, but might as well ask.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Dec 29, 2017, at 12:36 PM, Lyle Johnson  wrote:
> 
> The K3 filter is a little unusual in that the receiver equalizer is part of 
> the DSP bandpass filter, not a different or subsequent filter.  This helps 
> minimize latency.
> 
> As a result, the equalization is applied before the audio paths are 
> separated, so it is on all receive paths.
> 
> In data modes, the equalizer is disabled (the filter coefficients are 
> re-computed ignoring the equalizer settings).
> 
> 73,
> 
> Lyle KK7P (author of the K3 DSP code)
> 
> 
>> Prob the first 3. The 4th is mostly for digital and thus not needed.
>> 
>>> On Dec 29, 2017, at 11:53 AM, Chris Hallinan  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I understand that the K3 has two separate equalizer settings for CW and
>>> SSB.  I also understand it is not active in the Data modes.
>>> 
>>> However, there are four sources of audio output:
>>> 
>>> 1) Internal Speaker
>>> 2) SPKRS (rear panel)
>>> 3) Phones (front panel)
>>> 4) Line Out (rear panel)
>>> 
>>> Does the equalizer operate for all four outputs?
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Equalizer

[Lyle Johnson]

The K3 filter is a little unusual in that the receiver equalizer is part 
of the DSP bandpass filter, not a different or subsequent filter.  This 
helps minimize latency.


As a result, the equalization is applied before the audio paths are 
separated, so it is on all receive paths.


In data modes, the equalizer is disabled (the filter coefficients are 
re-computed ignoring the equalizer settings).


73,

Lyle KK7P (author of the K3 DSP code)



Prob the first 3. The 4th is mostly for digital and thus not needed.


On Dec 29, 2017, at 11:53 AM, Chris Hallinan  wrote:

I understand that the K3 has two separate equalizer settings for CW and
SSB.  I also understand it is not active in the Data modes.

However, there are four sources of audio output:

1) Internal Speaker
2) SPKRS (rear panel)
3) Phones (front panel)
4) Line Out (rear panel)

Does the equalizer operate for all four outputs?


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Equalizer

[Nr4c]

Prob the first 3. The 4th is mostly for digital and thus not needed. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Dec 29, 2017, at 11:53 AM, Chris Hallinan  wrote:
> 
> I understand that the K3 has two separate equalizer settings for CW and
> SSB.  I also understand it is not active in the Data modes.
> 
> However, there are four sources of audio output:
> 
> 1) Internal Speaker
> 2) SPKRS (rear panel)
> 3) Phones (front panel)
> 4) Line Out (rear panel)
> 
> Does the equalizer operate for all four outputs?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Chris
> K1AY
> 
> -- 
> Life is like Linux - it never stands still.
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Equalizer

[Lyle Johnson]

Yes.

73,

Lyle KK7P


On 12/29/17 9:53 AM, Chris Hallinan wrote:

I understand that the K3 has two separate equalizer settings for CW and
SSB.  I also understand it is not active in the Data modes.

However, there are four sources of audio output:

1) Internal Speaker
2) SPKRS (rear panel)
3) Phones (front panel)
4) Line Out (rear panel)

Does the equalizer operate for all four outputs?

Thanks,

Chris
K1AY



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX broken :-( ... where to look at first?

[Oliver Dröse]

Thanks to Dave's, K6LL, tip on the 3C0L thread, I could identify D25 on 
the RF board to have gone south. Ordered spares already and thanks to 
Heiko, DG1BHA who is lending his K3 so I can do the contest at least ... 
73, Olli


Contest, DX & radio projects: http://www.dh8bqa.de


Am 27.10.2017 um 20:32 schrieb Oliver Dröse:

Hi,

just setting up for WWDX SSB and probably due to too much RF around 
(HIGH RFI indication shortly on the display) my K3 main RX died. Seems 
the 2nd RX is still operational, at least I can hear signals when 
switching to AUX antenna which is wired from ATU to sub-RX if I 
remember correctly.


Any hint?

Seem to remember there were similar cases in the past where a 
protection diode died which was not on the main board but somewhere else?


Thanks,
Olli - DH8BQA



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Ant - first try - nothing

[Mark E. Musick]

Also, make sure the KXV3 is set to "ON" in the configuration menu.

Mark, WB9CIF

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bob Wilson, N6TV
Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2017 6:40 AM
To: Jim Miller <jimmil...@stl-online.net>; Elecraft Reflector
<Elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Ant - first try - nothing

On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 10:07 PM, Jim Miller <jimmil...@stl-online.net>
wrote:

> I have not tried to use Rx ant previously.
>
> K3 (sn 1442) Manual Rev D pf 43 - I have KXV3 and KAT3.
>
> Antenna connected to BNC on KXV3 and Rx ant selected on main receiver.
>
> No receive.
>

Connect the RX antenna to the BNC labeled "RX ANT IN", not the BNC labeled
"AUX".  Tap RX ANT to listen to the RX ANT on MAIN.

If you have the Sub RX (KRX3), you can connect the RX antenna to the BNC
labeled AUX.  Enable the SubRx (tap SUB), then HOLD the RX ANT button to
toggle the SUB RX ANT between MAIN and AUX.

There is no way to listen to the AUX BNC connector on the MAIN receiver,
only the Sub RX.

I assumes you have CONFIG:KRX3 set to ANT=BNC.  If you have CONFIG:KRX3 set
to ANT=ATU *and* you have wired the radio that way (there are two antenna
wiring options for the SubRx), then the SubRx can listen on ANT1 or ANT2,
whichever is not being used by the MAIN, instead of AUX.

It seems there was a decision to make when I assembled it that had to do
> with antenna configuration and I cannot find it in the manual.


This is best explained in the KRX3 Installation on Operation manual
<http://www.elecraft.com/manual/KRX3%20Subreceiver%20Installation%20and%20Op
eration%20Rev%20F1.pdf>,
page 26.

If you have two transmit antennas, say an all band vertical and a multi-band
dipole, the ANT=ATU wiring option allows you to transmit on whichever one is
hearing best on any particular signal, or you can use diversity reception
and listen on both, one in each ear.

73,
Bob, N6TV
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Ant - first try - nothing

[Don Wilhelm]

Jim,

If you connect an antenna to either ANT1 or ANT2 (select the right one), 
then tap RX ANT the signal should drop drastically.  Do that test first.

You should see the RX ANT icon in the display.

Then with the RX ANT still selected, move the antenna to the jack 
labeled RX ANT IN (not RX ANT OUT) and you should once again hear the 
signal at full strength.


If not you have a problem with the KXV3 and should contact support.

If you have the SUB RX, the situation becomes more complex, so do not 
select SUB when trying this testing.  We can deal with that later if 
necessary.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/6/2017 1:07 AM, Jim Miller wrote:

I have not tried to use Rx ant previously.

K3 (sn 1442) Manual Rev D pf 43 - I have KXV3 and KAT3.

Antenna connected to BNC on KXV3 and Rx ant selected on main receiver.

No receive.

If I connect same antenna to Ant 1 or Ant 2 - it works very well.


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Ant - first try - nothing

[Bob Wilson, N6TV]

On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 10:07 PM, Jim Miller 
wrote:

> I have not tried to use Rx ant previously.
>
> K3 (sn 1442) Manual Rev D pf 43 - I have KXV3 and KAT3.
>
> Antenna connected to BNC on KXV3 and Rx ant selected on main receiver.
>
> No receive.
>

Connect the RX antenna to the BNC labeled "RX ANT IN", not the BNC labeled
"AUX".  Tap RX ANT to listen to the RX ANT on MAIN.

If you have the Sub RX (KRX3), you can connect the RX antenna to the BNC
labeled AUX.  Enable the SubRx (tap SUB), then HOLD the RX ANT button to
toggle the SUB RX ANT between MAIN and AUX.

There is no way to listen to the AUX BNC connector on the MAIN receiver,
only the Sub RX.

I assumes you have CONFIG:KRX3 set to ANT=BNC.  If you have CONFIG:KRX3 set
to ANT=ATU *and* you have wired the radio that way (there are two antenna
wiring options for the SubRx), then the SubRx can listen on ANT1 or ANT2,
whichever is not being used by the MAIN, instead of AUX.

It seems there was a decision to make when I assembled it that had to do
> with antenna configuration and I cannot find it in the manual.


This is best explained in the KRX3 Installation on Operation manual
,
page 26.

If you have two transmit antennas, say an all band vertical and a
multi-band dipole, the ANT=ATU wiring option allows you to transmit on
whichever one is hearing best on any particular signal, or you can use
diversity reception and listen on both, one in each ear.

73,
Bob, N6TV
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Re: [Elecraft] K3, RX ANT and Band Outputs

[Don Wilhelm]

Per-Tore,

The band data outputs should follow the band set on VFO A.  That should 
not change with RX ANT in or out.


If you have VFO IND set to ON, the band outputs should still reflect the 
band for VFO A.


The other thing that affects the band data output is the menu 
CONFIG:KIO3 - if set to TRNS, then the band data output for HF-6 m will 
all be zero.  If set to NOR, they should conform to the chart in the manual.


If you have different results, please report it to Elecraft support as a 
problem.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/30/2016 6:17 PM, Per-Tore Aasestrand wrote:

Hello,

It appears that the Band Outputs are not according to the selected band
when RX ANT is active.

Anyone who can explain how this is supposed to function?




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX EQ Settings

[Gary]

This is me, not for all folks ok?
1.8 filter installed, Hi Cut set to 1.7 - 1.8, Lo Cut set to .10.
Now, to MY EARS 99% of stations I work are perfect to my ears.
I defer to excellent advice from Jim, k9yc and othersyou know who you are.
On the RX EQ, I have -16db on 1-3, 4-6 are flat, 7-8 are +3db

Again, these are for my ears, Tinitus runs rampart and one ear canal is 40% 
smaller from birth. Guess I am special after all?
 73
Enjoy the ride.

-Original Message-
From: "Don Wilhelm" <w3...@embarqmail.com>
Sent: ‎25/‎02/‎2016 9:51 AM
To: "Doug Renwick" <ve...@sasktel.net>; "Elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
<Elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX EQ Settings

Doug,

This is not a question where there is a 'best' setting for everyone - it 
all depends.

Your RX EQ settings will have to be customized to your ears and the 
listening devices you typically use (headphones, speakers, etc.).
I just leave mine set flat for both SSB and CW.  Make it sound 'natural' 
to your ears.

For the SSB Lo and Hi cut points, I generally start out with 200 to 300 
Hz as the lo  cut point, and 2800 to 3000 for the high cut point.
If I find interference on the high frequency side, it is an easy matter 
to reduce the hi cut, and you will be surprised how much it can be cut 
while still maintaining intelligibility.  Interference on the low 
frequency side is more difficult to combat since you will lose 
significant intelligibility if you increase the low cut significantly.

With the NR settings, you will have to experiment.  It will depend on 
the type of noise you are trying to deal with.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/24/2016 6:29 PM, Doug Renwick wrote:
> Have a new K3S and need to find the best settings.
> What are people using for their SSB and CW RX EQ 8 band settings.
> Same for the SSB Lo and Hi cut points.
> What seems to be the best NR settings.
>

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX EQ Settings

[Don Wilhelm]

Doug,

This is not a question where there is a 'best' setting for everyone - it 
all depends.


Your RX EQ settings will have to be customized to your ears and the 
listening devices you typically use (headphones, speakers, etc.).
I just leave mine set flat for both SSB and CW.  Make it sound 'natural' 
to your ears.


For the SSB Lo and Hi cut points, I generally start out with 200 to 300 
Hz as the lo  cut point, and 2800 to 3000 for the high cut point.
If I find interference on the high frequency side, it is an easy matter 
to reduce the hi cut, and you will be surprised how much it can be cut 
while still maintaining intelligibility.  Interference on the low 
frequency side is more difficult to combat since you will lose 
significant intelligibility if you increase the low cut significantly.


With the NR settings, you will have to experiment.  It will depend on 
the type of noise you are trying to deal with.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/24/2016 6:29 PM, Doug Renwick wrote:

Have a new K3S and need to find the best settings.
What are people using for their SSB and CW RX EQ 8 band settings.
Same for the SSB Lo and Hi cut points.
What seems to be the best NR settings.



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX issue with KAT3A?

[Udo Langenohl - DK5YA]

The suspect was pursued, caught, arrested and taken to the garbage with 
the soldering iron. It was a defective pin diode that caused the loss of 
10 dB. Thanks to all who have given me advice.


73 Udo, DK5YA

Am 02.11.2015 um 16:18 schrieb Udo Langenohl - DK5YA:

Gents,

in spring I made an upgrade to my K3 (#59xx) with the internal ATU
KAT3A. After this I guessed that there is a noise drop on all bands from
160 up to 10, but was not 100% sure. The strange thing: neighbor
stations with similar setup always gave much better reports than me, at
least 10 dB better. I was struggling a lot with my antennas, checked
coax every now and than etc. but everything was o.k. At that time my
main RX became suspicious.

Last week I bought a K3/10W (#39++) from a local ham as a backup here in
my shack. Comparing both rigs shows a huge difference in sensitivity.
Very weak signals, almost in the noise on 10 Meters are clearly audible
in the freshly bought K3 while there's almost nil on my old one. So i
fired up my HP8664A signal generator today and found my old K3 to be at
least 9dB worst compared to new one. This is for the main RX in my old
K3 while the second RX iny my old K3 is almost similar to the new K3
when fed through the AUX input (not through ANT 1!!).

So whats going on here? Something broken in my old K3 when I made the
upgrade with KAT3A? Wrong wired? I have no idea, perhaps you got one?

Udo, DK5YA

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX issue with KAT3A?

[Mark E. Musick]

Jerry and Udo,
You can't save the configuration file from one K3 and then load it into
another K3. The configuration file contains the serial number and
calibration information specific to the K3 you're saving the configuration
file for.
I think you can print out the configuration files for each K3 and compare
them. Then change only the parameters that are not K3 specific.
There was an earlier thread that addressed a possible way to remove the
specific K3 information from the configuration file and only load the non K3
specific parameters.
I don't remember the details or even if it was determined that it was
possible. You will have to search the archives.
Hope you find the solution.

73,

Mark, WB9CIF
K3-3505 and K3-7436


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
ae...@carolinaheli.com
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2015 5:09 PM
To: 'Udo Langenohl - DK5YA' <dk...@dk5ya.de>; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX issue with KAT3A?

Use the K3 utility to save the config from the "Good" K3, then use the same
utility to save the config from the "suspect" K3. Finally use the K3 Utility
to restore the config from the "good" K3 into the "suspect" K3 and retest. 

If that doesn't fix the issue then I'd start double checking the connections
per the assembly manual.


Jerry Moore
CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
Patriotic.


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Udo
Langenohl - DK5YA
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2015 10:19 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 RX issue with KAT3A?

Gents,

in spring I made an upgrade to my K3 (#59xx) with the internal ATU KAT3A.
After this I guessed that there is a noise drop on all bands from
160 up to 10, but was not 100% sure. The strange thing: neighbor stations
with similar setup always gave much better reports than me, at least 10 dB
better. I was struggling a lot with my antennas, checked coax every now and
than etc. but everything was o.k. At that time my main RX became suspicious.

Last week I bought a K3/10W (#39++) from a local ham as a backup here in my
shack. Comparing both rigs shows a huge difference in sensitivity. 
Very weak signals, almost in the noise on 10 Meters are clearly audible in
the freshly bought K3 while there's almost nil on my old one. So i fired up
my HP8664A signal generator today and found my old K3 to be at least 9dB
worst compared to new one. This is for the main RX in my old
K3 while the second RX iny my old K3 is almost similar to the new K3 when
fed through the AUX input (not through ANT 1!!).

So whats going on here? Something broken in my old K3 when I made the
upgrade with KAT3A? Wrong wired? I have no idea, perhaps you got one?

Udo, DK5YA
--
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Webs by DK5YA:   *
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX issue with KAT3A?

[ae4pb]

Ok, ty..
 The only way I know of currently to save the settings out is to use HRD.
I'm actually writing a program in my spare time to see if I can write a
utility to read/write configs specifically for this purpose. 
Jer

Jerry Moore
CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
Patriotic.


-Original Message-
From: Mark E. Musick [mailto:markmus...@sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2015 1:32 PM
To: ae...@carolinaheli.com; 'Udo Langenohl - DK5YA';
elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 RX issue with KAT3A?

Jerry and Udo,
You can't save the configuration file from one K3 and then load it into
another K3. The configuration file contains the serial number and
calibration information specific to the K3 you're saving the configuration
file for.
I think you can print out the configuration files for each K3 and compare
them. Then change only the parameters that are not K3 specific.
There was an earlier thread that addressed a possible way to remove the
specific K3 information from the configuration file and only load the non K3
specific parameters.
I don't remember the details or even if it was determined that it was
possible. You will have to search the archives.
Hope you find the solution.

73,

Mark, WB9CIF
K3-3505 and K3-7436


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
ae...@carolinaheli.com
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2015 5:09 PM
To: 'Udo Langenohl - DK5YA' <dk...@dk5ya.de>; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX issue with KAT3A?

Use the K3 utility to save the config from the "Good" K3, then use the same
utility to save the config from the "suspect" K3. Finally use the K3 Utility
to restore the config from the "good" K3 into the "suspect" K3 and retest. 

If that doesn't fix the issue then I'd start double checking the connections
per the assembly manual.


Jerry Moore
CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
Patriotic.


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Udo
Langenohl - DK5YA
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2015 10:19 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 RX issue with KAT3A?

Gents,

in spring I made an upgrade to my K3 (#59xx) with the internal ATU KAT3A.
After this I guessed that there is a noise drop on all bands from
160 up to 10, but was not 100% sure. The strange thing: neighbor stations
with similar setup always gave much better reports than me, at least 10 dB
better. I was struggling a lot with my antennas, checked coax every now and
than etc. but everything was o.k. At that time my main RX became suspicious.

Last week I bought a K3/10W (#39++) from a local ham as a backup here in my
shack. Comparing both rigs shows a huge difference in sensitivity. 
Very weak signals, almost in the noise on 10 Meters are clearly audible in
the freshly bought K3 while there's almost nil on my old one. So i fired up
my HP8664A signal generator today and found my old K3 to be at least 9dB
worst compared to new one. This is for the main RX in my old
K3 while the second RX iny my old K3 is almost similar to the new K3 when
fed through the AUX input (not through ANT 1!!).

So whats going on here? Something broken in my old K3 when I made the
upgrade with KAT3A? Wrong wired? I have no idea, perhaps you got one?

Udo, DK5YA
--
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http://www.mmmonvhf.de/  [editor]*
http://www.vhfdx.de/ [owner] *
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX issue with KAT3A?

[ae4pb]

Use the K3 utility to save the config from the "Good" K3, then use the same
utility to save the config from the "suspect" K3. Finally use the K3 Utility
to restore the config from the "good" K3 into the "suspect" K3 and retest. 

If that doesn't fix the issue then I'd start double checking the connections
per the assembly manual.


Jerry Moore
CDXA, INDEXA, SKCC, Fists
AE4PB, K3S - S.N. 010324
http://www.qrz.com/db/AE4PB
An Amateur is - Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, and
Patriotic.


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Udo
Langenohl - DK5YA
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2015 10:19 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 RX issue with KAT3A?

Gents,

in spring I made an upgrade to my K3 (#59xx) with the internal ATU KAT3A.
After this I guessed that there is a noise drop on all bands from
160 up to 10, but was not 100% sure. The strange thing: neighbor stations
with similar setup always gave much better reports than me, at least 10 dB
better. I was struggling a lot with my antennas, checked coax every now and
than etc. but everything was o.k. At that time my main RX became suspicious.

Last week I bought a K3/10W (#39++) from a local ham as a backup here in my
shack. Comparing both rigs shows a huge difference in sensitivity. 
Very weak signals, almost in the noise on 10 Meters are clearly audible in
the freshly bought K3 while there's almost nil on my old one. So i fired up
my HP8664A signal generator today and found my old K3 to be at least 9dB
worst compared to new one. This is for the main RX in my old
K3 while the second RX iny my old K3 is almost similar to the new K3 when
fed through the AUX input (not through ANT 1!!).

So whats going on here? Something broken in my old K3 when I made the
upgrade with KAT3A? Wrong wired? I have no idea, perhaps you got one?

Udo, DK5YA
--
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX issue with KAT3A?

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

Adding the KAT3A gives you the possibility to be listening to a coax jack
with no antenna connected. To get started...

Make sure that CONFIG: KAT3 is *not* set to "not inst".  Be certain of that
by hitting the "ANT" and "RXANT" buttons that you are on the coax connector
you intend. After that there is the possibility that connecting the
mini-coax you may not have seated the mini-coax connectors correctly. When
fully seated, the little tabs on the connectors should be nearly up to the
shoulder of the mini-coax jacks.

73, Guy K2AV

On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 10:18 AM, Udo Langenohl - DK5YA 
wrote:

> Gents,
>
> in spring I made an upgrade to my K3 (#59xx) with the internal ATU KAT3A.
> After this I guessed that there is a noise drop on all bands from 160 up to
> 10, but was not 100% sure. The strange thing: neighbor stations with
> similar setup always gave much better reports than me, at least 10 dB
> better. I was struggling a lot with my antennas, checked coax every now and
> than etc. but everything was o.k. At that time my main RX became suspicious.
>
> Last week I bought a K3/10W (#39++) from a local ham as a backup here in
> my shack. Comparing both rigs shows a huge difference in sensitivity. Very
> weak signals, almost in the noise on 10 Meters are clearly audible in the
> freshly bought K3 while there's almost nil on my old one. So i fired up my
> HP8664A signal generator today and found my old K3 to be at least 9dB worst
> compared to new one. This is for the main RX in my old K3 while the second
> RX iny my old K3 is almost similar to the new K3 when fed through the AUX
> input (not through ANT 1!!).
>
> So whats going on here? Something broken in my old K3 when I made the
> upgrade with KAT3A? Wrong wired? I have no idea, perhaps you got one?
>
> Udo, DK5YA
> --
> **
> Webs by DK5YA:   *
> http://www.mmmonvhf.de/  [editor]*
> http://www.vhfdx.de/ [owner] *
> http://www.palekastro.de/[owner] *
> http://www.solweb.de/[owner] *
> http://www.spessartwetter.de/[owner] *
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX in real world

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

One thing I notice with better and better RX with less and much less RX
generated cr*p, is that TX/amp generated cr*p is presented quite a bit
clearer with much less disguise. Once upon a time that was all "band noise"
to us. Ain't clarity interesting?

What is really cool is to listen to an SSB pileup in correctly done K3
diversity and hear cr*p coming from the same point on the sound stage as
just one of the voices, not at all spread around like the true "band
noise".

73, Guy K2AV

On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 5:50 PM, Hisashi T Fujinaka 
wrote:

> On Tue, 15 Sep 2015, Jim Brown wrote:
>
> On Tue,9/15/2015 1:29 PM, Bill wrote:
>>
>>> the technical performance differences between the top rigs can only be
>>> discerned in a "copper" room.
>>>
>>
>> That is definitely not true. Digging weak ones out in a big contest, or
>> with a close by ham neighbor, will tell you right away. An inferior dirty
>> radio a few miles away driving a power amp will make your life miserable.
>>
>
> Exactly. Get on during CQWW. I could hear interesting transmitter widths
> from people half a continent away and interesting effects in my receiver
> as well (mostly noise blanker effects). I heard this all just on my
> dipole with no hams close by. Actually, K7VIT is 5 miles away but I can
> hardly hear him.
>
> --
> Hisashi T Fujinaka - ht...@twofifty.com
> BSEE + BSChem + BAEnglish + MSCS + $2.50 = coffee
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX in real world

[Wes (N7WS)]

When you turn on the noise blanker, all bets are off.


On 9/15/2015 2:50 PM, Hisashi T Fujinaka wrote:


Exactly. Get on during CQWW. I could hear interesting transmitter widths
from people half a continent away and interesting effects in my receiver
as well (mostly noise blanker effects). I heard this all just on my
dipole with no hams close by. Actually, K7VIT is 5 miles away but I can
hardly hear him.



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX in real world

[Hisashi T Fujinaka]

On Tue, 15 Sep 2015, Jim Brown wrote:


On Tue,9/15/2015 1:29 PM, Bill wrote:
the technical performance differences between the top rigs can only be 
discerned in a "copper" room. 


That is definitely not true. Digging weak ones out in a big contest, or with 
a close by ham neighbor, will tell you right away. An inferior dirty radio a 
few miles away driving a power amp will make your life miserable.


Exactly. Get on during CQWW. I could hear interesting transmitter widths
from people half a continent away and interesting effects in my receiver
as well (mostly noise blanker effects). I heard this all just on my
dipole with no hams close by. Actually, K7VIT is 5 miles away but I can
hardly hear him.

--
Hisashi T Fujinaka - ht...@twofifty.com
BSEE + BSChem + BAEnglish + MSCS + $2.50 = coffee
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX in real world

[Hank P]

I held this for three days  deciding whether to send it or not – here ‘tis.

I went from TT Orion - 3 of them at various times - to K3 . I was more than a 
little  concerned by size and Hold/Tap functions etc - I read all the stuff 
from Sherwood ,keep reading stories here about KSYN3A wonders.

Here is my take - I live in a hot bed of BIG time DXers and contesters  - it 
takes  quite a receiver to hold up when they all get going .I need a rig I can 
use when they are on. 

One guy about 4 miles away has K3/ALPHA8410 - and puts a measured 75 millivolts 
into the K3 ant jack on 160. I can copy and work weak DX with a 2khz split –  
(250hz 8pole)  I kind of  know he is there ,(no doubt about it  looking at P3) 
but stuff is copyable. (I can see his carrier on a scope on my antenna input , 
that’s something like S9+65dB) 

Another guy about 2 miles farther away has a bit better TX antenna  and is 
usually within plus/minus 1 dB of the closer guy – but he is painful +/- 15 
khz- and 30 dB of external pad does not make it go away. Its NOT my  K3 RX. (he 
DID find an arcing filter last year  that was making him +/- 50 khz or worse ) 

I do really wonder what I would notice with KSYN3As on my main /sub rx -  I 
live in a “field of RF noise”  even before the big guns. I DO really like both 
main and sub rx now truly  being fed by same LO. 

So I am a happy camper  PLUS  Elecraft  support has been BEYOND superb – I have 
found no-one to begin to compare. I could go on with a page of my experiences 
with other vendors. 

My K3  “feels” smooth to me – every bit as “smooth” as the Orions were - 

Just hope Elecraft  lasts longer than I do   Ham for 64 years – the K3 / P3 
/ KAT500  / KPA500 is such a SWEET combo. 

73 Hank K7HP

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX in real world

[Jim Brown]

On Tue,9/15/2015 11:35 AM, Hank P wrote:

I do really wonder what I would notice with KSYN3As on my main /sub rx -  I 
live in a “field of RF noise”  even before the big guns. I DO really like both 
main and sub rx now truly  being fed by same LO.


It won't help a bit when the other guy(s) are dirty, putting trash in 
your IF passband (that is, what your BW is set to), but it can help a 
lot with strong signals outside that passband.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX in real world

[Bill]

Real World - that is all that really counts. All the testing and arguing 
that has been appearing of late is great, if you are a numbers cruncher 
and chart maker. But, to my thinking - the technical performance 
differences between the top rigs can only be discerned in a "copper" room.


Real world experience with QRM, QRN, good or poor antennas, band 
conditions are all the great equalizers. Reported real world experience 
- comparing one rig (A to B) - is of far greater value to me than a list 
of numbers.


Lots of explanations why one rig is preferred over another: handles 
QRM/QRN better, has more pleasing audio, better/worse ergonomics, more 
??? for the money, too many menus, great audio reports, great 
keyer/break-in, eye candy, etc.


Of course, all that said - it would be a very hard sell to get me away 
from my K3-Line. But, it would be interesting reading never-the-less.


Bill W2BLC K3-Line
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX in real world

[Jim Brown]

On Tue,9/15/2015 1:29 PM, Bill wrote:
the technical performance differences between the top rigs can only be 
discerned in a "copper" room. 


That is definitely not true. Digging weak ones out in a big contest, or 
with a close by ham neighbor, will tell you right away. An inferior 
dirty radio a few miles away driving a power amp will make your life 
miserable.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX audio (was MH2 question)

[Don Wilhelm]

We are drifting way off the original post question which was related to 
the K2 and transmit audio.
If the discussion is to morph to the K3 and its receive audio, someone 
needs to change the subject line.

The K3 does have the RX EQ which can change the RX audio substantially.
The internal speaker is pretty good, but is not of Hi-Fi quality. Put 
a pair of good bookshelf speakers on the rear speaker jack and the 
character of the K3 receive audio changes drastically.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/9/2015 8:52 PM, Tom Schaefer wrote:

I'm missing something. Wayne said that's in the K3 now. He did not say only the 
K3S did he?

Tom NY4I

Principal Solutions Architect
Better Software Solutions, Inc.
727-437-2771


On Jul 9, 2015, at 7:09 PM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX rmcg...@blomand.net wrote:

This system, being in the new K3S, should make a big difference in receive 
audio.  I certainly look forward to receiving my new K3S-F.

Thanks Wayne!

73 Bob, K4TAX


On 7/9/2015 6:05 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
Also note that the K3 has stereo, 4-ohm-capable external speaker outputs. You 
can really get pet-hair-raising amounts of audio out if you need it. Using two 
speakers allows you to take advantage of the left/right main/sub RX audio as 
well as audio effects.

73,
Wayne
N6KR




On Jul 9, 2015, at 3:34 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
wrote:

I think the issue of the audio output of the K series is sufficient to anyone 
needing a simple system. I for one have never used any of the inboard speaker 
on any radio preferring to use external devices to suit my needs.  Having said 
that the audio sharpness / crispness is good on the internal speaker in 
general.  Fidelity is a different story.  That' s what earphones and external 
devices are for.  The Tx audio is par excellence.  IMHO.
Mel.  K6KBE

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Antenna QSK

[Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO]

I just stuck a piece of folded-up bubble wrap underneath the Pixel 
control box which made it much quieter!


On 1 Feb 2015 13:20, Mike K2MK wrote:

Hi Jim,

My Pixel loop is about 15 feet away from my BigIR vertical. I run 1500 watts
QSK and have not had any problem at all. In fact since the recent
improvements to the K3 QSK it's become a pretty pleasant way of operating.
As Vic stated, there is a mechanical relay in the Pixel power box that
resides inside the shack which could be distracting. However, the clicking
from my amp's relay is much louder. So headphones are pretty much mandatory
at my QTH. I should note that this amp is new and I've only been running QSK
for about 5 months.

If you are noise sensitive and if you are running a silent amp like the
KPA500 you'll probably be dissapointed in the sudden appearance of noise
from the Pixel power box. I don't know how the Wellbrook does its switching.
Perhaps the bigger question is how many cycles does this little relay go
through in a typical weekend DX contest and how long will it last. Is it
10,000 cycles? Is it a million cycles? I always switch the Pixel off on the
higher frequency bands for the sole purpose of extending the life of the
relay.

73,
Mike K2MK



James Bennett wrote

Hi all,

Have a K3/P3/KPA500/KAT500 and have been working 160 meters more the past
year or so than in the previous 49 years. Only need three more states for
WAS. Got a lot of noise here at this QTH, and have limited antenna space.
Using an Inverted L up about 40 feet with a K2AV FCP under it.

I'm looking at perhaps getting a magnetic loop receiving antenna, and have
looked at the Wellbrook ALA 1530 and the Pixel RF Pro 1B.

But my question is on the T/R switching of the K3. As I operate 99% CW, I
depend on QSK operation. If I connect either of those receive only antenna
to the RX Ant, does the K3 switch between Ant1 and the RX Ant fast enough
to protect the K3?

Thanks, Jim

Jim Bennett / W6JHB
Folsom, CA


--
73,
Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Antenna QSK

[Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO]

I just tried it at speeds from about 24 to 35 wpm. As you say, not much 
difference in what you hear and a big reduction in relay operations. 
0.005 extends the useful speed range downward without changing what you 
hear much.


I'll try it in the next pileup and see if I think it matters. I have two 
relays in my amp and the one in the loop, and the less work they do the 
better.


On 1 Feb 2015 15:58, d...@lightstream.net wrote:

Is there a significant benefit to running full QSK at speeds = 30 WPM as
opposed to just running break-in w/ a delay of 0.04? I use the Pixel loop
here on 40 and 30 meters w/ my K3, and doing the latter saves a lot of
relay operations. Although you won't hear the band between keying
elements, you will definitely hear it between letters.

No sarcasm intended w/ my question; just trying to understand when and how
full QSK provides a benefit over break-in w/ minimal delay.

73, Dale
WA8SRA




The Pixel can be connected to your amp key circuit. It turns off the
power and grounds the antenna on transmit. It works fine with the K3 QSK
at 30 wpm (haven't really tried it faster). The relay is a little noisy,
but I wear phones and it doesn't bother me. I am using it about 6m from
my vertical transmitting antenna with up to 1200 watts, so it is a good
idea to use this feature.

On 1 Feb 2015 06:52, James Bennett wrote:

Hi all,

Have a K3/P3/KPA500/KAT500 and have been working 160 meters more the
past year or so than in the previous 49 years. Only need three more
states for WAS. Got a lot of noise here at this QTH, and have limited
antenna space. Using an Inverted L up about 40 feet with a K2AV FCP
under it.

I'm looking at perhaps getting a magnetic loop receiving antenna, and
have looked at the Wellbrook ALA 1530 and the Pixel RF Pro 1B.

But my question is on the T/R switching of the K3. As I operate 99%
CW, I depend on QSK operation. If I connect either of those receive
only antenna to the RX Ant, does the K3 switch between Ant1 and the
RX Ant fast enough to protect the K3?

Thanks, Jim

Jim Bennett / W6JHB Folsom, CA


--
73,
Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Antenna QSK

[Mike K2MK]

Hi Jim,

My Pixel loop is about 15 feet away from my BigIR vertical. I run 1500 watts
QSK and have not had any problem at all. In fact since the recent
improvements to the K3 QSK it's become a pretty pleasant way of operating.
As Vic stated, there is a mechanical relay in the Pixel power box that
resides inside the shack which could be distracting. However, the clicking
from my amp's relay is much louder. So headphones are pretty much mandatory
at my QTH. I should note that this amp is new and I've only been running QSK
for about 5 months. 

If you are noise sensitive and if you are running a silent amp like the
KPA500 you'll probably be dissapointed in the sudden appearance of noise
from the Pixel power box. I don't know how the Wellbrook does its switching.
Perhaps the bigger question is how many cycles does this little relay go
through in a typical weekend DX contest and how long will it last. Is it
10,000 cycles? Is it a million cycles? I always switch the Pixel off on the
higher frequency bands for the sole purpose of extending the life of the
relay.

73,
Mike K2MK



James Bennett wrote
 Hi all,
 
 Have a K3/P3/KPA500/KAT500 and have been working 160 meters more the past
 year or so than in the previous 49 years. Only need three more states for
 WAS. Got a lot of noise here at this QTH, and have limited antenna space.
 Using an Inverted L up about 40 feet with a K2AV FCP under it.
 
 I'm looking at perhaps getting a magnetic loop receiving antenna, and have
 looked at the Wellbrook ALA 1530 and the Pixel RF Pro 1B. 
 
 But my question is on the T/R switching of the K3. As I operate 99% CW, I
 depend on QSK operation. If I connect either of those receive only antenna
 to the RX Ant, does the K3 switch between Ant1 and the RX Ant fast enough
 to protect the K3?
 
 Thanks, Jim
 
 Jim Bennett / W6JHB
 Folsom, CA





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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Antenna QSK

[d...@lightstream.net]

Is there a significant benefit to running full QSK at speeds = 30 WPM as
opposed to just running break-in w/ a delay of 0.04? I use the Pixel loop
here on 40 and 30 meters w/ my K3, and doing the latter saves a lot of
relay operations. Although you won't hear the band between keying
elements, you will definitely hear it between letters.

No sarcasm intended w/ my question; just trying to understand when and how
full QSK provides a benefit over break-in w/ minimal delay.

73, Dale
WA8SRA



 The Pixel can be connected to your amp key circuit. It turns off the
 power and grounds the antenna on transmit. It works fine with the K3 QSK
 at 30 wpm (haven't really tried it faster). The relay is a little noisy,
 but I wear phones and it doesn't bother me. I am using it about 6m from
 my vertical transmitting antenna with up to 1200 watts, so it is a good
 idea to use this feature.

 On 1 Feb 2015 06:52, James Bennett wrote:
 Hi all,

 Have a K3/P3/KPA500/KAT500 and have been working 160 meters more the
 past year or so than in the previous 49 years. Only need three more
 states for WAS. Got a lot of noise here at this QTH, and have limited
 antenna space. Using an Inverted L up about 40 feet with a K2AV FCP
 under it.

 I'm looking at perhaps getting a magnetic loop receiving antenna, and
 have looked at the Wellbrook ALA 1530 and the Pixel RF Pro 1B.

 But my question is on the T/R switching of the K3. As I operate 99%
 CW, I depend on QSK operation. If I connect either of those receive
 only antenna to the RX Ant, does the K3 switch between Ant1 and the
 RX Ant fast enough to protect the K3?

 Thanks, Jim

 Jim Bennett / W6JHB Folsom, CA

 --
 73,
 Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
 Rehovot, Israel
 http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Antenna QSK

[Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO]

The Pixel can be connected to your amp key circuit. It turns off the 
power and grounds the antenna on transmit. It works fine with the K3 QSK 
at 30 wpm (haven't really tried it faster). The relay is a little noisy, 
but I wear phones and it doesn't bother me. I am using it about 6m from 
my vertical transmitting antenna with up to 1200 watts, so it is a good 
idea to use this feature.


On 1 Feb 2015 06:52, James Bennett wrote:

Hi all,

Have a K3/P3/KPA500/KAT500 and have been working 160 meters more the
past year or so than in the previous 49 years. Only need three more
states for WAS. Got a lot of noise here at this QTH, and have limited
antenna space. Using an Inverted L up about 40 feet with a K2AV FCP
under it.

I'm looking at perhaps getting a magnetic loop receiving antenna, and
have looked at the Wellbrook ALA 1530 and the Pixel RF Pro 1B.

But my question is on the T/R switching of the K3. As I operate 99%
CW, I depend on QSK operation. If I connect either of those receive
only antenna to the RX Ant, does the K3 switch between Ant1 and the
RX Ant fast enough to protect the K3?

Thanks, Jim

Jim Bennett / W6JHB Folsom, CA


--
73,
Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Antenna QSK

[Chester Alderman]

In my opinion, you do not gain anything by running full QSK with your K3
below about 40 wpm. But if you do run full QSK, you do lose the use of
RIT/XIT and SPLIT. For me using RIT during contest is quite important,
therefore I do not use full QSK in any contest. But during the now seldom
times I have QRQ (above 60 wpm) QSO's, I always use full QSK. Relay noise
from amplifiers T/R relays can not be avoided so therefore you either have
to train yourself to ignore the relay noise or wear good headphones, or
both. I am presently trying to learn to use VFO A for receiving and VFO B
for transmitting as I normally operate in the RUN mode during contest, but
of course with the K3 you lose full QSK when running SPLIT. However this
also makes using spotting cluster almost impossible.

YMMV!!
73,
Tom - W4BQF


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Vic
Rosenthal 4X6GP/K2VCO
Sent: Sunday, February 1, 2015 9:41 AM
To: d...@lightstream.net
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Antenna  QSK

I just tried it at speeds from about 24 to 35 wpm. As you say, not much
difference in what you hear and a big reduction in relay operations. 
0.005 extends the useful speed range downward without changing what you hear
much.

I'll try it in the next pileup and see if I think it matters. I have two
relays in my amp and the one in the loop, and the less work they do the
better.

On 1 Feb 2015 15:58, d...@lightstream.net wrote:
 Is there a significant benefit to running full QSK at speeds = 30 WPM 
 as opposed to just running break-in w/ a delay of 0.04? I use the 
 Pixel loop here on 40 and 30 meters w/ my K3, and doing the latter 
 saves a lot of relay operations. Although you won't hear the band 
 between keying elements, you will definitely hear it between letters.

 No sarcasm intended w/ my question; just trying to understand when and 
 how full QSK provides a benefit over break-in w/ minimal delay.

 73, Dale
 WA8SRA



 The Pixel can be connected to your amp key circuit. It turns off the 
 power and grounds the antenna on transmit. It works fine with the K3 
 QSK at 30 wpm (haven't really tried it faster). The relay is a little 
 noisy, but I wear phones and it doesn't bother me. I am using it 
 about 6m from my vertical transmitting antenna with up to 1200 watts, 
 so it is a good idea to use this feature.

 On 1 Feb 2015 06:52, James Bennett wrote:
 Hi all,

 Have a K3/P3/KPA500/KAT500 and have been working 160 meters more the 
 past year or so than in the previous 49 years. Only need three more 
 states for WAS. Got a lot of noise here at this QTH, and have 
 limited antenna space. Using an Inverted L up about 40 feet with a 
 K2AV FCP under it.

 I'm looking at perhaps getting a magnetic loop receiving antenna, 
 and have looked at the Wellbrook ALA 1530 and the Pixel RF Pro 1B.

 But my question is on the T/R switching of the K3. As I operate 99% 
 CW, I depend on QSK operation. If I connect either of those receive 
 only antenna to the RX Ant, does the K3 switch between Ant1 and the 
 RX Ant fast enough to protect the K3?

 Thanks, Jim

 Jim Bennett / W6JHB Folsom, CA

--
73,
Vic, 4X6GP/K2VCO
Rehovot, Israel
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Rx antenna

[Bill Frantz]

The question, particularly on the lower bands is signal to noise 
ratio and not absolute receive strength. While connecting a 
receive antennas to two radios will involve a 3db loss, that 
loss will be to both the signal and the noise. The signal to 
noise ratio will be unchanged.


Cheers - Bill, AE6JV

On 2/2/14 at 11:05 PM, g...@ka1j.com (Gary Smith) wrote:

My concern with the dB loss is only when it comes to the 
faintest of stations which is what I like to work, I like the 
most difficult ones to pull out because they are the most 
interesting ones to me; DX, QRP or someone with a really 
compromised location, that gives me the greatest pleasure and 
when such signals are in the mud, 3 dB is a lot of loss. When 
copying a signal that moves the meter the loss is no problem. 
All these options to select what antenna configuration to use 
with the K3  its sub receiver are tools each has unique 
benefits  liabilities, sometimes a different choice lets me 
make the Q.


---
Bill Frantz|Security, like correctness, is| Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  |not an add-on feature. - Attr-| 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |ibuted to Andrew Tanenbaum| Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Rx antenna

[Mike K2MK]

Hi Gary,

You didn't indicate if you are running split or diversity. Here's a solution
if you are in diversity.

There are times that you would like the RX ANT to be steered to both your
MAIN RX and SUB RX. I do that with a splitter on my RX antenna cable. One
leg goes to the AUX RF BNC socket for the SUB RX and the other leg goes to
the RX ANT IN BNC socket on the KXV3A board. When I want to use my RX
antenna for both receivers I press the RX ANT button. I'm still in diversity
but I'm using the same antenna for both ears.

73,
Mike K2MK



Gary Smith-2 wrote
 I connect my Rx antenna via the BNC below the SO239 outputs. I have a 
 sub Receiver and have the Rx on the sub and listen to the vertical 
 transmitting antenna on the main with my stereo headset.
 
 There are times when I'd like to only hear the Rx antenna and not the 
 vertical and to this point to do that, I turn off the audio from the 
 main receiver  listen with the one ear to the sub Rx.
 
 Listening to the transmit antenna with both ears I just don't use the 
 sub rx. The question I'd like to know is: How can I listen to the sub 
 Rx only with both ears? I could do it by inserting a stereo to mono 
 adapter in line but that's going to be bothersome quickly. Any easy  
 quick way to do this?
 
 73,
 Gary
 KA1J





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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Rx antenna

[Gary Smith]

David,

Its a Hi-Z Triangular array, it is only a rx antenna, not for 
transmit. Used to be sold by Hi-Z themselves but now sold are now 
sold albeit at a higher price by DXEngineering. You can read about 
their antennas here: http://www.hizantennas.com There are links on 
their antenna pages to DXEngineering to purchase the one of your 
choice. I chose the triangular array because it offers 6 directions 
of forward  of course, 6 opposite directions of null.

They have other options which may suit you better depending on your 
spare pounds and QTH. Look on eham for reviews:

http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/11548

The following link also but it reviews several of their systems:

http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/8579

I am extremely happy with this triangular array with the K3; lower 
price and very effective. Hi-Z notes they are for low band use but I 
have found them a godsend on the upper bands as well for I have no 
beam and use wire antennas hung in not very tall trees. 

If you are looking for even better performance but only 4 directions, 
their 4 square gets very high ratings. Their 8 element gives the 4 
square performance but with eight directions to chose from. And... 
their 8 element comes in two different varieties optimised for 80 or 
160M.

73,

 Gary
 
 I am very interested in your 'steerable' antenna for 160m, would you care to 
 advise what you are using?
 
 73
 
 David
 G3UNA
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Gary Smith g...@ka1j.com
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2014 7:03 AM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Rx antenna
 
 
  Hello Brian,
 
  I was hoping there would be a way to do this selectively within the
  confines of the K3 and not use something external. I found in the
  last 160M contest that there were many DX I could hear on the Rx
  antenna as it is steerable while the Inv-L picks up sounds equally
  from all directions. I found I could almost completely eliminate
  stateside QRM if I listened only through the Rx antenna and aimed it
  towards the DX but it could only be heard in one ear.
 
  Considering the high amount of QRM coming in on the Inv-L and the
  high amount of desired signals coming in on the Rx, I needed to shut
  off the noise in the Inv-L  hear with both ears, the DX on the Rx
  antenna.
 
  Funny thing for me about the diversity mode; I use it but not often
  because of the signal loss when diversity is engaged. What I find I
  prefer is to link the two receivers and use the sub. This allows a
  better sounding signal to me and its in sync so there's no offset in
  the Rx. I let my head do the diversity and it seems to work really
  well.
 
  About the only time I use diversity is when there is a wide split the
  XIT won't reach and the DX is faint on the main antenna. Then I'll go
  split find a hole in the pileup, perch there and go into diversity so
  I can still hear the DX on their transmit freq till the band changes.
  The twin receivers  diversity is a very cool thing.
 
  Gary, KA1J
 
  I have all of my receive antennas switchable into the sub RX or the
  rx input (a six by two matrix in my case) K9ay makes a box that can
  do this or you can build your own. K9ay has a preamp in his box so
  that there is no loss of level when both inputs are on the same
  antenna. The RX ant switch will toggle the main receiver between
  receive antenna(s) and the tx antenna. The diversity feature of
  listening on the same frequency with different antenna in each ear
  makes it possible to pick out stations in the sound field. On good
  nights it's really obvious when a station is not on this continent
  with one dash or dot.
 
 
 
   On Jan 31, 2014, at 8:57 PM, Gary Smith g...@ka1j.com wrote:
  
   I connect my Rx antenna via the BNC below the SO239 outputs. I have a
   sub Receiver and have the Rx on the sub and listen to the vertical
   transmitting antenna on the main with my stereo headset.
  
   There are times when I'd like to only hear the Rx antenna and not the
   vertical and to this point to do that, I turn off the audio from the
   main receiver  listen with the one ear to the sub Rx.
  
   Listening to the transmit antenna with both ears I just don't use the
   sub rx. The question I'd like to know is: How can I listen to the sub
   Rx only with both ears? I could do it by inserting a stereo to mono
   adapter in line but that's going to be bothersome quickly. Any easy 
   quick way to do this?
  
   73,
  
   Gary
   KA1J
  
  
  
  
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Rx antenna

[Gary Smith]

Hi Mike,

What you're suggesting sounds like a good idea. I don't often use 
diversity because of the dB loss and the stations I am usually trying 
to work are the faintest ones out there. instead, I use the two 
receivers linked on the same frequency, that gives me the best 
sensitivity and I just listen in stereo.

My goal is to be able to select the option of hearing from only the 
Rx antenna and nothing from the transmit antenna. I use my Rx as a 
beam in that I can null out undesirable signals /or peak the station 
I am listening to. The transmit antenna hears 360 degrees and I want 
to at times eliminate that. I figured with all the options on the K3 
that there would be an easily selectable way to hear the Rx antenna 
on both receivers just like you can hear only the Tx antenna on both 
receivers. And maybe you can? I haven't figured out how to do that if 
it is built in.

73,

Gary
KA1J

 Hi Gary,
 
 You didn't indicate if you are running split or diversity. Here's a solution
 if you are in diversity.
 
 There are times that you would like the RX ANT to be steered to both your
 MAIN RX and SUB RX. I do that with a splitter on my RX antenna cable. One
 leg goes to the AUX RF BNC socket for the SUB RX and the other leg goes to
 the RX ANT IN BNC socket on the KXV3A board. When I want to use my RX
 antenna for both receivers I press the RX ANT button. I'm still in diversity
 but I'm using the same antenna for both ears.
 
 73,
 Mike K2MK
 
 
 
 Gary Smith-2 wrote
  I connect my Rx antenna via the BNC below the SO239 outputs. I have a 
  sub Receiver and have the Rx on the sub and listen to the vertical 
  transmitting antenna on the main with my stereo headset.
  
  There are times when I'd like to only hear the Rx antenna and not the 
  vertical and to this point to do that, I turn off the audio from the 
  main receiver  listen with the one ear to the sub Rx.
  
  Listening to the transmit antenna with both ears I just don't use the 
  sub rx. The question I'd like to know is: How can I listen to the sub 
  Rx only with both ears? I could do it by inserting a stereo to mono 
  adapter in line but that's going to be bothersome quickly. Any easy  
  quick way to do this?
  
  73,
  Gary
  KA1J
 
 
 
 
 
 --
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Rx antenna

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Gary,

If you want to hear the same antenna in both ears, connect it
to the RX IN jack and press RX ANT on the Main RX.  Yes, you
will see a 3 dB loss due to the splitting on both receivers
but that's unavoidable *anytime* you feed a single antenna to
both receivers.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2/1/2014 8:37 AM, Gary Smith wrote:

Hi Mike,

What you're suggesting sounds like a good idea. I don't often use
diversity because of the dB loss and the stations I am usually trying
to work are the faintest ones out there. instead, I use the two
receivers linked on the same frequency, that gives me the best
sensitivity and I just listen in stereo.

My goal is to be able to select the option of hearing from only the
Rx antenna and nothing from the transmit antenna. I use my Rx as a
beam in that I can null out undesirable signals /or peak the station
I am listening to. The transmit antenna hears 360 degrees and I want
to at times eliminate that. I figured with all the options on the K3
that there would be an easily selectable way to hear the Rx antenna
on both receivers just like you can hear only the Tx antenna on both
receivers. And maybe you can? I haven't figured out how to do that if
it is built in.

73,

Gary
KA1J


Hi Gary,

You didn't indicate if you are running split or diversity. Here's a solution
if you are in diversity.

There are times that you would like the RX ANT to be steered to both your
MAIN RX and SUB RX. I do that with a splitter on my RX antenna cable. One
leg goes to the AUX RF BNC socket for the SUB RX and the other leg goes to
the RX ANT IN BNC socket on the KXV3A board. When I want to use my RX
antenna for both receivers I press the RX ANT button. I'm still in diversity
but I'm using the same antenna for both ears.

73,
Mike K2MK



Gary Smith-2 wrote

I connect my Rx antenna via the BNC below the SO239 outputs. I have a
sub Receiver and have the Rx on the sub and listen to the vertical
transmitting antenna on the main with my stereo headset.

There are times when I'd like to only hear the Rx antenna and not the
vertical and to this point to do that, I turn off the audio from the
main receiver  listen with the one ear to the sub Rx.

Listening to the transmit antenna with both ears I just don't use the
sub rx. The question I'd like to know is: How can I listen to the sub
Rx only with both ears? I could do it by inserting a stereo to mono
adapter in line but that's going to be bothersome quickly. Any easy 
quick way to do this?

73,
Gary
KA1J






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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Rx antenna

[Gary Smith]

Hi there Paul,

Mike K2MK mentioned that  Joe, W4TV along the same line. I made up 
the pieces today and did as was suggested. Indeed this is exactly 
what I wanted to do with the K3  the directional Rx antenna, mission 
accomplished. Now I can null out offending stations sometimes to the 
point of really not hearing them to a level that is bothersome. 

There were some SOBs intentionally QRMing FT5ZM on 160 and while I 
didn't work him there I was able to null some of the QRM to the point 
I could hear him. On diversity I still heard the QRMers over his 
signal. (What unhappy people those QRMers must be to live every day 
with that defect in their thoughts, but I digress) In the absence of 
intentional QRM I would have been able to have heard them marvelously 
with diversity.

My concern with the dB loss is only when it comes to the faintest of 
stations which is what I like to work, I like the most difficult ones 
to pull out because they are the most interesting ones to me; DX, QRP 
or someone with a really compromised location, that gives me the 
greatest pleasure and when such signals are in the mud, 3 dB is a lot 
of loss. When copying a signal that moves the meter the loss is no 
problem. All these options to select what antenna configuration to 
use with the K3  its sub receiver are tools each has unique benefits 
 liabilities, sometimes a different choice lets me make the Q.

Thanks to everyone who replied.

73,

Gary
KA1J

 Hi Gary,
 
 I also have the Hi-Z triangle array and K3. I use a splitter to feed 
 the receive antenna to the Aux-In and RX-In ports.
 
 About your concern of the 3 db loss when using a splitter -- is this 
 really a problem since you are reducing both the noise and the signal 
 by 3 db? I find I stll have enough gain to hear noise, so I feel if the 
 signal was above noise, I will not lose any ability to hear the signal 
 when I use the splitter.
 
 73,
 Paul - K5ESW
 Raleigh, NC 
 
 
  Hi Mike,
  
  What you're suggesting sounds like a good idea. I don't often use 
  diversity because of the dB loss and the stations I am usually trying 
  to work are the faintest ones out there. instead, I use the two 
  receivers linked on the same frequency, that gives me the best 
  sensitivity and I just listen in stereo.
  
  My goal is to be able to select the option of hearing from only the 
  Rx antenna and nothing from the transmit antenna. I use my Rx as a 
  beam in that I can null out undesirable signals /or peak the station 
  I am listening to. The transmit antenna hears 360 degrees and I want 
  to at times eliminate that. I figured with all the options on the K3 
  that there would be an easily selectable way to hear the Rx antenna 
  on both receivers just like you can hear only the Tx antenna on both 
  receivers. And maybe you can? I haven't figured out how to do that if 
  it is built in.
  
  73,
  
  Gary
  KA1J
  
   Hi Gary,
   
   You didn't indicate if you are running split or diversity. Here's a 
   solution
   if you are in diversity.
   
   There are times that you would like the RX ANT to be steered to both your
   MAIN RX and SUB RX. I do that with a splitter on my RX antenna cable. One
   leg goes to the AUX RF BNC socket for the SUB RX and the other leg goes to
   the RX ANT IN BNC socket on the KXV3A board. When I want to use my RX
   antenna for both receivers I press the RX ANT button. I'm still in 
   diversity
   but I'm using the same antenna for both ears.
   
   73,
   Mike K2MK
   
   
   
   Gary Smith-2 wrote
I connect my Rx antenna via the BNC below the SO239 outputs. I have a 
sub Receiver and have the Rx on the sub and listen to the vertical 
transmitting antenna on the main with my stereo headset.

There are times when I'd like to only hear the Rx antenna and not the 
vertical and to this point to do that, I turn off the audio from the 
main receiver  listen with the one ear to the sub Rx.

Listening to the transmit antenna with both ears I just don't use the 
sub rx. The question I'd like to know is: How can I listen to the sub 
Rx only with both ears? I could do it by inserting a stereo to mono 
adapter in line but that's going to be bothersome quickly. Any easy  
quick way to do this?

73,
Gary
KA1J
   
   
   
   
   
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Rx antenna

[Brian Moran]

I have all of my receive antennas switchable into the sub RX or the rx input (a 
six by two matrix in my case) K9ay makes a box that can do this or you can 
build your own. K9ay has a preamp in his box so that there is no loss of level 
when both inputs are on the same antenna. The RX ant switch will toggle the 
main receiver between receive antenna(s) and the tx antenna. The diversity 
feature of listening on the same frequency with different antenna in each ear 
makes it possible to pick out stations in the sound field. On good nights it's 
really obvious when a station is not on this continent with one dash or dot.

Sent via iPhone

 On Jan 31, 2014, at 8:57 PM, Gary Smith g...@ka1j.com wrote:
 
 I connect my Rx antenna via the BNC below the SO239 outputs. I have a 
 sub Receiver and have the Rx on the sub and listen to the vertical 
 transmitting antenna on the main with my stereo headset.
 
 There are times when I'd like to only hear the Rx antenna and not the 
 vertical and to this point to do that, I turn off the audio from the 
 main receiver  listen with the one ear to the sub Rx.
 
 Listening to the transmit antenna with both ears I just don't use the 
 sub rx. The question I'd like to know is: How can I listen to the sub 
 Rx only with both ears? I could do it by inserting a stereo to mono 
 adapter in line but that's going to be bothersome quickly. Any easy  
 quick way to do this?
 
 73,
 
 Gary
 KA1J
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Rx antenna

[Gary Smith]

Hello Brian,

I was hoping there would be a way to do this selectively within the 
confines of the K3 and not use something external. I found in the 
last 160M contest that there were many DX I could hear on the Rx 
antenna as it is steerable while the Inv-L picks up sounds equally 
from all directions. I found I could almost completely eliminate 
stateside QRM if I listened only through the Rx antenna and aimed it 
towards the DX but it could only be heard in one ear. 

Considering the high amount of QRM coming in on the Inv-L and the 
high amount of desired signals coming in on the Rx, I needed to shut 
off the noise in the Inv-L  hear with both ears, the DX on the Rx 
antenna.

Funny thing for me about the diversity mode; I use it but not often 
because of the signal loss when diversity is engaged. What I find I 
prefer is to link the two receivers and use the sub. This allows a 
better sounding signal to me and its in sync so there's no offset in 
the Rx. I let my head do the diversity and it seems to work really 
well. 

About the only time I use diversity is when there is a wide split the 
XIT won't reach and the DX is faint on the main antenna. Then I'll go 
split find a hole in the pileup, perch there and go into diversity so 
I can still hear the DX on their transmit freq till the band changes. 
The twin receivers  diversity is a very cool thing.

Gary, KA1J

 I have all of my receive antennas switchable into the sub RX or the 
rx input (a six by two matrix in my case) K9ay makes a box that can 
do this or you can build your own. K9ay has a preamp in his box so 
that there is no loss of level when both inputs are on the same 
antenna. The RX ant switch will toggle the main receiver between 
receive antenna(s) and the tx antenna. The diversity feature of 
listening on the same frequency with different antenna in each ear 
makes it possible to pick out stations in the sound field. On good 
nights it's really obvious when a station is not on this continent 
with one dash or dot.


 
  On Jan 31, 2014, at 8:57 PM, Gary Smith g...@ka1j.com wrote:
  
  I connect my Rx antenna via the BNC below the SO239 outputs. I have a 
  sub Receiver and have the Rx on the sub and listen to the vertical 
  transmitting antenna on the main with my stereo headset.
  
  There are times when I'd like to only hear the Rx antenna and not the 
  vertical and to this point to do that, I turn off the audio from the 
  main receiver  listen with the one ear to the sub Rx.
  
  Listening to the transmit antenna with both ears I just don't use the 
  sub rx. The question I'd like to know is: How can I listen to the sub 
  Rx only with both ears? I could do it by inserting a stereo to mono 
  adapter in line but that's going to be bothersome quickly. Any easy  
  quick way to do this?
  
  73,
  
  Gary
  KA1J
  
  
  
  
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX Audio/AGC

[Bill W2BLC]

This debate comes up way too often - so I rather think there is an 
inherent problem with the perceived comfort of the receive audio.


First, I am a long-time Kenwood user and am very used to armchair copy - 
as most of my hamming is rag chew on 75 and 40 meters.


To that end, I have spent too much money on speakers and too much time 
trying to get the K3 to sound as good as my TS-480 or a TS-590. That 
said, you can see the current settings I am using on my K3 at:


http://www.w2blc.net/K3.htm

The above captioned settings are not carved in stone and I tweak them 
often. Tweakability is one of the strong features of the K3. You can 
arrange the radio to suit your specific needs and desires - not just 
what some lab-rat decided at the manufacturer.


Bill W2BLC K-Line (?)


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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX Audio/AGC

[Don Wilhelm]

Mike,

I don't know if it will help in your situation, but take a look at my 
webpage www.w3fpr.com article on Noisy K3 for some guidance to setting 
the AGC parameters.  Yes, changing the slope may be helpful, but you 
will have to experiment a bit.


Turning the preamp off and perhaps the attenuator on may help as well.  
Then too, if you are running with noise reduction turned on, that could 
create some 'funny situations' that are similar to what you are hearing 
- try with NR turned off.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/23/2014 6:39 PM, mikerodgerske5...@yahoo.com wrote:

I have a ongoing nuisance.  On USB it seems high voices will pop/crack just 
like if AGC was off and hitting the AF limiter. Reducing RF Gain clears it up.
Turning agc threshold down has no effect.

Is there a agc setting that might correct this?  I haven't tried slope which is 
15 (max).

I get the qth list as daily digest and yahoo as individual email. It's much 
easier to respond on yahoo. I've posted to both.

Thanks
Mike R



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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX Audio/AGC

[Don Wilhelm]

Mike,

An added note - when experimenting with the AGC settings, do take heed 
of the information on how to evaluate the results of your changes - 
listen between pauses in the signal rather than listening to the noise 
on the band.  Listening to the noise level without an intermittent 
signal will lead you in the wrong direction.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/23/2014 6:55 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Mike,

I don't know if it will help in your situation, but take a look at my 
webpage www.w3fpr.com article on Noisy K3 for some guidance to 
setting the AGC parameters.  Yes, changing the slope may be helpful, 
but you will have to experiment a bit.


Turning the preamp off and perhaps the attenuator on may help as 
well.  Then too, if you are running with noise reduction turned on, 
that could create some 'funny situations' that are similar to what you 
are hearing - try with NR turned off.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/23/2014 6:39 PM, mikerodgerske5...@yahoo.com wrote:
I have a ongoing nuisance.  On USB it seems high voices will 
pop/crack just like if AGC was off and hitting the AF limiter. 
Reducing RF Gain clears it up.

Turning agc threshold down has no effect.

Is there a agc setting that might correct this?  I haven't tried 
slope which is 15 (max).


I get the qth list as daily digest and yahoo as individual email. 
It's much easier to respond on yahoo. I've posted to both.


Thanks
Mike R



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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX Audio/AGC

[Fred Jensen]

Adding on Don's post, my experience is to go slow, make one change and 
try it out in real situations.  I was about to give up on the RX Eq, and 
got that advice from K9YC.  I did finally zero it in where I want it. 
With a radio that has as many configurable parameters as the K3, some of 
which interact, it's very easy to get things totally out of whack with 
big and rapid moves.


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014
- www.cqp.org

On 1/23/2014 3:55 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Mike,

I don't know if it will help in your situation, but take a look at my
webpage www.w3fpr.com article on Noisy K3 for some guidance to setting
the AGC parameters.  Yes, changing the slope may be helpful, but you
will have to experiment a bit.



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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX Audio/AGC

[mikerodgerske5gbc]

Let me add, I don't mind reducing rf gain more one on one BUT its aggravating 
after a while in a group to turn it up and down for one or two guys with high 
pitch voices. 

Seems AGC should do that?

Once again, it's like the high pitch voice is activating th AF limiter or a 
similar sound. AGC fast or slow. AF limiter 30. 
Signal around s7. 
I run into this frequently on a 20m rag chew net. 

73
Mike R



RIP- Mr 500.  STP's Andy Granatelli from racing fans everywhere. 

On Jan 23, 2014, at 6:11 PM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote:

 Mike,
 
 An added note - when experimenting with the AGC settings, do take heed of the 
 information on how to evaluate the results of your changes - listen between 
 pauses in the signal rather than listening to the noise on the band.  
 Listening to the noise level without an intermittent signal will lead you in 
 the wrong direction.
 
 73,
 Don W3FPR
 
 On 1/23/2014 6:55 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
 Mike,
 
 I don't know if it will help in your situation, but take a look at my 
 webpage www.w3fpr.com article on Noisy K3 for some guidance to setting the 
 AGC parameters.  Yes, changing the slope may be helpful, but you will have 
 to experiment a bit.
 
 Turning the preamp off and perhaps the attenuator on may help as well.  Then 
 too, if you are running with noise reduction turned on, that could create 
 some 'funny situations' that are similar to what you are hearing - try with 
 NR turned off.
 
 73,
 Don W3FPR
 
 On 1/23/2014 6:39 PM, mikerodgerske5...@yahoo.com wrote:
 I have a ongoing nuisance.  On USB it seems high voices will pop/crack just 
 like if AGC was off and hitting the AF limiter. Reducing RF Gain clears it 
 up.
 Turning agc threshold down has no effect.
 
 Is there a agc setting that might correct this?  I haven't tried slope 
 which is 15 (max).
 
 I get the qth list as daily digest and yahoo as individual email. It's much 
 easier to respond on yahoo. I've posted to both.
 
 Thanks
 Mike R
 
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX Audio/AGC

[Don Wilhelm]

Mike,

The high pitched voices should have no connection with AGC.  I would 
suggest that those signals are off frequency.  Using the RX EQ might 
help, or reducing the HiCut may be the answer to make your RX more 
comfortable.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/23/2014 11:33 PM, mikerodgerske5...@yahoo.com wrote:

Let me add, I don't mind reducing rf gain more one on one BUT its aggravating 
after a while in a group to turn it up and down for one or two guys with high 
pitch voices.

Seems AGC should do that?

Once again, it's like the high pitch voice is activating th AF limiter or a 
similar sound. AGC fast or slow. AF limiter 30.
Signal around s7.
I run into this frequently on a 20m rag chew net.

73
Mike R





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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX Audio/AGC

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Mike,

Do you have CONFIG:AF LIM reduced from NOR 030 and MENU:RX EQ set to
boost high frequencies?

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 1/23/2014 11:33 PM, mikerodgerske5...@yahoo.com wrote:

Let me add, I don't mind reducing rf gain more one on one BUT its aggravating 
after a while in a group to turn it up and down for one or two guys with high 
pitch voices.

Seems AGC should do that?

Once again, it's like the high pitch voice is activating th AF limiter or a 
similar sound. AGC fast or slow. AF limiter 30.
Signal around s7.
I run into this frequently on a 20m rag chew net.

73
Mike R



RIP- Mr 500.  STP's Andy Granatelli from racing fans everywhere.

On Jan 23, 2014, at 6:11 PM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote:


Mike,

An added note - when experimenting with the AGC settings, do take heed of the 
information on how to evaluate the results of your changes - listen between 
pauses in the signal rather than listening to the noise on the band.  Listening 
to the noise level without an intermittent signal will lead you in the wrong 
direction.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/23/2014 6:55 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Mike,

I don't know if it will help in your situation, but take a look at my webpage 
www.w3fpr.com article on Noisy K3 for some guidance to setting the AGC 
parameters.  Yes, changing the slope may be helpful, but you will have to experiment a 
bit.

Turning the preamp off and perhaps the attenuator on may help as well.  Then 
too, if you are running with noise reduction turned on, that could create some 
'funny situations' that are similar to what you are hearing - try with NR 
turned off.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/23/2014 6:39 PM, mikerodgerske5...@yahoo.com wrote:

I have a ongoing nuisance.  On USB it seems high voices will pop/crack just 
like if AGC was off and hitting the AF limiter. Reducing RF Gain clears it up.
Turning agc threshold down has no effect.

Is there a agc setting that might correct this?  I haven't tried slope which is 
15 (max).

I get the qth list as daily digest and yahoo as individual email. It's much 
easier to respond on yahoo. I've posted to both.

Thanks
Mike R


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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX Audio/AGC

[mikerodgerske5gbc]

Joe,

Thanks. I should double check AF Lim. I've always set at 30. 

EQ mostly flat with band 8 -16. I may experiment with -3 or -6 on some EQ 
bands. 

73
Mike R

RIP- Mr 500.  STP's Andy Granatelli from racing fans everywhere. 

On Jan 23, 2014, at 11:04 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com wrote:

 
 Mike,
 
 Do you have CONFIG:AF LIM reduced from NOR 030 and MENU:RX EQ set to
 boost high frequencies?
 
 73,
 
   ... Joe, W4TV
 
 
 On 1/23/2014 11:33 PM, mikerodgerske5...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Let me add, I don't mind reducing rf gain more one on one BUT its 
 aggravating after a while in a group to turn it up and down for one or two 
 guys with high pitch voices.
 
 Seems AGC should do that?
 
 Once again, it's like the high pitch voice is activating th AF limiter or a 
 similar sound. AGC fast or slow. AF limiter 30.
 Signal around s7.
 I run into this frequently on a 20m rag chew net.
 
 73
 Mike R
 
 
 
 RIP- Mr 500.  STP's Andy Granatelli from racing fans everywhere.
 
 On Jan 23, 2014, at 6:11 PM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote:
 
 Mike,
 
 An added note - when experimenting with the AGC settings, do take heed of 
 the information on how to evaluate the results of your changes - listen 
 between pauses in the signal rather than listening to the noise on the 
 band.  Listening to the noise level without an intermittent signal will 
 lead you in the wrong direction.
 
 73,
 Don W3FPR
 
 On 1/23/2014 6:55 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
 Mike,
 
 I don't know if it will help in your situation, but take a look at my 
 webpage www.w3fpr.com article on Noisy K3 for some guidance to setting 
 the AGC parameters.  Yes, changing the slope may be helpful, but you will 
 have to experiment a bit.
 
 Turning the preamp off and perhaps the attenuator on may help as well.  
 Then too, if you are running with noise reduction turned on, that could 
 create some 'funny situations' that are similar to what you are hearing - 
 try with NR turned off.
 
 73,
 Don W3FPR
 
 On 1/23/2014 6:39 PM, mikerodgerske5...@yahoo.com wrote:
 I have a ongoing nuisance.  On USB it seems high voices will pop/crack 
 just like if AGC was off and hitting the AF limiter. Reducing RF Gain 
 clears it up.
 Turning agc threshold down has no effect.
 
 Is there a agc setting that might correct this?  I haven't tried slope 
 which is 15 (max).
 
 I get the qth list as daily digest and yahoo as individual email. It's 
 much easier to respond on yahoo. I've posted to both.
 
 Thanks
 Mike R
 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio Roll-off below 400 Hz

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

 Is this roll-off similar to what other folks are seeing?

That is slightly less roll off than I see with either the FM (13 KHz)
or 2.8 KHz filters in the data modes.  It is in line with the 200 Hz
cut off for data modes.

In LSB/USB the low cut is less steep.  In SSB it looks to be about
10 dB per octave below 300 Hz (-10 dB at 150 Hz, -20 dB at 75 Hz,
-30 dB at 40 Hz) vs. 0.2 dB/Hz below 250 Hz in DATA modes.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 9/7/2013 11:55 AM, Bob wrote:

My K3 is in the 61XX serial number range (almost 2 years old), and I'm
running FW 4.67/2.81.

While setting up WSJT-X, I've noticed a rather pronounced audio roll-off on
the waterfall display.  By other means I've verified that the sound card
being used is flat down to below 20 Hz, so it isn't that.  Assuming that it
is an attribute of the K3 itself, things are flat down to 400 Hz.  Then
there is a -3 dB roll-off at 300 Hz, -10 dB at 200 Hz, and -20 dB at 100 Hz.

At the moment, my widest filter is an 8-pole 2.8 KHz (A 6 KHz AM filter is
on order), and it properly centered and wide open.

Is this roll-off similar to what other folks are seeing?

73, Bob, WB4SON
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio

[Trevor Dunne]

Thank you all that replied to me direct and via the mailing list, There is too 
many to reply to,
 
There was a good balance between positive and negative, But I think I can be 
happy to proceed with getting a K3 and not worry about this issue.
 
Thanks again


Trevor
EI2GLB

From: Trevor Dunne trevor_du...@yahoo.com
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Friday, 19 July 2013, 12:16
Subject: K3 RX Audio



Hi All

I am allmost ready to order my K3 but I keep reading about people that are 
unhappy with the RX audio,

Is this still a problem or has there been changes made to slove it, Can someone 
point me to a good guide on how to set the RX up to remove the harsh sounding 
audio.

I will mainly be using a headset as DXing is my main interest.

 
Thanks
Trevor
EI2GLB
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio

[Carl Clawson]

Yes, please! Irritating when I've been on speaker and then put on
headphones and blast myself with my own sidetone.

A fixed L-R balance adjustment somewhere in a menu would be great too, for
guys like me who have one weak ear. Can't find a headset that I like that
also has individual volume controls.

73 -- Carl WS7L


On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Ralph Parker ve...@dccnet.com wrote:

 Only one thing left to do to make me ecstatic -
 separate audio gain menu settings for headset and speakers.
 Lo gain setting is best for my headset, but nowhere near loud enough for
 a speaker (I've tried many external speakers).
 High gain setting hurts my ears inside my headset, but has good level for
 speaker monitoring while I'm in the shack.


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio

[Gary Gregory]

H...that would be a huge improvement for all I reckon.

I have always had to be careful when switching from speaker to headphones.

Didn't always turn out too good though.
Gary

On 22 July 2013 16:04, Carl Clawson clawso...@gmail.com wrote:

 Yes, please! Irritating when I've been on speaker and then put on
 headphones and blast myself with my own sidetone.

 A fixed L-R balance adjustment somewhere in a menu would be great too, for
 guys like me who have one weak ear. Can't find a headset that I like that
 also has individual volume controls.

 73 -- Carl WS7L


 On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Ralph Parker ve...@dccnet.com wrote:

  Only one thing left to do to make me ecstatic -
  separate audio gain menu settings for headset and speakers.
  Lo gain setting is best for my headset, but nowhere near loud enough
 for
  a speaker (I've tried many external speakers).
  High gain setting hurts my ears inside my headset, but has good level
 for
  speaker monitoring while I'm in the shack.
 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX AUDIO

[mikerodgerske5gbc]

I think the audio voice quality has been remedied long ago. 
What lingers is the high end hiss that I and a few others hear. Apparently this 
only bothers a minority. 
On my 5047 it occurs with hi cut of about 2500 and gets worse to 3000. If you 
run bandwidth 2.1 or below you will never hear it. 2.4 probably hear it some. 
It's most prevalent scanning a vacant band 6-20. Not as noticeable when people 
are talking. 
On the noisier bands I'm not sure you hear it at all. I was on 40 the other 
night using NR and didn't hear it. 

This issue in general comes up frequently on other groups and is negative 
press. It's usually called something like fatigue factor like during a contest. 
I think some of this is holdover and bad press before the dsp upgrade several 
years ago. I don't see anything wrong with the audio itself, just the high end 
hiss. My top 3 eq bands at -16 by the way. 
Something that comes up also is how well the k handles lightning noise spikes 
in agc and why can't others do it? That's positive press. 

73
Mike R
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX AUDIO

[Don Wilhelm]

Mike,

If that 'hiss' is reduced when the bandwidth is reduced, then it is 
atmospheric noise that you are hearing, not any internally generated noise.


The audio LPF that was added to the DSP board has a cutoff frequency 
somewhere near 3.4 kHz if I recall.  There is little falloff at 
frequencies lower than that.
The K3 does have a very flat passband with steep skirts out to the 
hi-cut value.  I am guessing that the flat passband is what is bothering 
you.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/21/2013 7:18 PM, mikerodgerske5...@yahoo.com wrote:

I think the audio voice quality has been remedied long ago.
What lingers is the high end hiss that I and a few others hear. Apparently this 
only bothers a minority.
On my 5047 it occurs with hi cut of about 2500 and gets worse to 3000. If you 
run bandwidth 2.1 or below you will never hear it. 2.4 probably hear it some.
It's most prevalent scanning a vacant band 6-20. Not as noticeable when people 
are talking.
On the noisier bands I'm not sure you hear it at all. I was on 40 the other 
night using NR and didn't hear it.

This issue in general comes up frequently on other groups and is negative 
press. It's usually called something like fatigue factor like during a contest. 
I think some of this is holdover and bad press before the dsp upgrade several 
years ago. I don't see anything wrong with the audio itself, just the high end 
hiss. My top 3 eq bands at -16 by the way.
Something that comes up also is how well the k handles lightning noise spikes 
in agc and why can't others do it? That's positive press.




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX AUDIO

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

 The audio LPF that was added to the DSP board has a cutoff frequency
 somewhere near 3.4 kHz if I recall.

The cutoff is 4.2 KHz - the same as the high limit of the DSP.


The K3 does have a very flat passband with steep skirts out to the
hi-cut value. I am guessing that the flat passband is what is
bothering you.


I'm convinced of that ... the vast majority of rigs I've tested over
the years have a low-pass roll off characteristic to their audio -
generally in the 3 to 6dB per octave range from about 5OO Hz up.
This can be simulated in the K3 by setting 400 Hz at 0, 800 at -3,
1600 at -6, 2400 at -8 and 3200 at -9 (3 dB per octave - double
for -6 dB per octave).  If one couples the 6 dB/octave roll off
with a bandwidth of 2.6 KHz (200 - 2800 Hz) there is very little
difference in the audio sound between the K3 and other mainline
rigs.

I prefer to keep my RX EQ flat from 400-2400 Hz, set 3200 at -16
and bring the bandwidth in to 2.4-2.6 KHz.  The flat setting at
2400 effectively provides a little intelligibility boost compared
to the other rigs for those times I have to use SSB.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 7/21/2013 7:43 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Mike,

If that 'hiss' is reduced when the bandwidth is reduced, then it is
atmospheric noise that you are hearing, not any internally generated noise.

The audio LPF that was added to the DSP board has a cutoff frequency
somewhere near 3.4 kHz if I recall.  There is little falloff at
frequencies lower than that.
The K3 does have a very flat passband with steep skirts out to the
hi-cut value.  I am guessing that the flat passband is what is bothering
you.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/21/2013 7:18 PM, mikerodgerske5...@yahoo.com wrote:

I think the audio voice quality has been remedied long ago.
What lingers is the high end hiss that I and a few others hear.
Apparently this only bothers a minority.
On my 5047 it occurs with hi cut of about 2500 and gets worse to 3000.
If you run bandwidth 2.1 or below you will never hear it. 2.4 probably
hear it some.
It's most prevalent scanning a vacant band 6-20. Not as noticeable
when people are talking.
On the noisier bands I'm not sure you hear it at all. I was on 40 the
other night using NR and didn't hear it.

This issue in general comes up frequently on other groups and is
negative press. It's usually called something like fatigue factor like
during a contest. I think some of this is holdover and bad press
before the dsp upgrade several years ago. I don't see anything wrong
with the audio itself, just the high end hiss. My top 3 eq bands at
-16 by the way.
Something that comes up also is how well the k handles lightning noise
spikes in agc and why can't others do it? That's positive press.




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX AUDIO

[Al Lorona]

That could be what it is. The hissy sound that some folks are hearing is 
probably simply a passband that's unusually flat. Those interested should 
familiarize themselves with the plots on Barry N1EU's page: 
http://n1eu.com/K3/K3_notes.htm .
 
So, I am not sure why, if at say, 2.8 kHz you find the hiss objectionable, 
you wouldn't simply limit the upper cutoff frequency to 2.75 kHz??? I find 3.4 
kHz too noisy; I leave my HI CUT frequency far below that point, always. That's 
why that control is variable.
 
There might be another factor involved. I don't recall if I made this point 
before-- and I apologize if I am repeating myself-- but I find that hams who 
grew up copying signals buried in QRM on less-than-perfect receivers tend to do 
much better later in life dealing with the psychoacoustical effects this thread 
has morphed into discussing. But this is only an anecdotal observation and I 
think some psychology student somewhere should do their dissertation on this!
 

 The K3 does have a very flat passband with steep skirts out to the
 hi-cut value. I am guessing that the flat passband is what is
 bothering you.


 
For a similar reason, we have hams who dislike copying stations who are less 
than S9. 
 
The 'ear-brain filter' that you hear about is an amazing thing, but especially 
if the skill to use it has been cultivated from a young age.
 
Al  W6LX
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio

[Gary Gregory]

Trevor,

With the 8 band EQ settings I think most operators either forget or are
unfamiliar with how much the received (perceived?) audio can be tailored to
the individuals hearing.

Sure you can use stereo headsets (which I do) and or use the internal
speaker provided. Again, audio is really dependent on the individuals
hearing and this of course varies widely. I have Tinitus (no, I am not
complaining, well, too much) and this reduces somewhat my ability to hear
many of the frequencies others might hear but having said that, the K3
produces good quality audio IF you take the time to adjust the audio via
the EQ, AGC, Slope and other subsets as detailed in the manual.

I doubt any internal speaker in any of the current crop of offerings will
produce a full rich sounding audio and I will leave it to others to
comment on why as I think most of us understand why anyway. The CM500
headset does a real nice job for me and I have also used stereo computer
speakers as well. Both work well and the internal speaker is OK but as
others will testify it is not designed or intended (my opinion only) to
produce broadcast quality audio. It is a communications device.

After market Pro Audio gear from Behringer and such used for transmit
doesn't help anyone's receive audio in my view, it just consumes bandwidth
and on the P3 it does not look real flash either. I have tried changing the
settings in the EQ when listening to these operators and it does improve
the audio quality somewhat but at the expense involved for those using
Pro-Audio gear I don't see the bang for your buck justification at all.

Just my rambling thoughts on the subject...YMMV...:-)

Regards,
Gary (Deaf as a post)

On 19 July 2013 21:32, Stephen Prior eastbrantw...@gmail.com wrote:

 Trevor

 My #930 has always sounded nice to me with a pair of high end sennheiser
 headphones with far less background hiss than either the ts480 or IC7000
 which preceded it. I did the dsp board swap a couple of years ago and that
 made it even more pleasant to listen to. In my opinion, even for its size,
 the built in speaker in the k3 is disappointing and I don't use it.

 73 Stephen G4SJP

 Full of typos from my iPhone


 On 19 Jul 2013, at 13:16, Trevor Dunne trevor_du...@yahoo.com wrote:

  Hi All
 
  I am allmost ready to order my K3 but I keep reading about people that
 are unhappy with the RX audio,
 
  Is this still a problem or has there been changes made to slove it, Can
 someone point me to a good guide on how to set the RX up to remove the
 harsh sounding audio.
 
  I will mainly be using a headset as DXing is my main interest.
 
 
  Thanks
  Trevor
  EI2GLB
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The Shack*
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P3 Panadapter
KPA500FT
KAT500FT**

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio

[Ian Kahn]

Trevor,

I purchased a used K3 (s/n 281) a bit over two years ago and have never had
a complaint about receive audio.  I love this rig and will, in all
likelihood, never buy another rig again.

Good luck with your purchase decision.

73,

--Ian
Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA  EM74ua
km4ik@gmail.com
K3 #281, P3 #688, KPA500 #1468
HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team


On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 7:16 AM, Trevor Dunne trevor_du...@yahoo.comwrote:

 Hi All

 I am allmost ready to order my K3 but I keep reading about people that are
 unhappy with the RX audio,

 Is this still a problem or has there been changes made to slove it, Can
 someone point me to a good guide on how to set the RX up to remove the
 harsh sounding audio.

 I will mainly be using a headset as DXing is my main interest.


 Thanks
 Trevor
 EI2GLB
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio

[Stephen Prior]

Trevor

My #930 has always sounded nice to me with a pair of high end sennheiser 
headphones with far less background hiss than either the ts480 or IC7000 which 
preceded it. I did the dsp board swap a couple of years ago and that made it 
even more pleasant to listen to. In my opinion, even for its size, the built in 
speaker in the k3 is disappointing and I don't use it. 

73 Stephen G4SJP

Full of typos from my iPhone


On 19 Jul 2013, at 13:16, Trevor Dunne trevor_du...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Hi All
 
 I am allmost ready to order my K3 but I keep reading about people that are 
 unhappy with the RX audio,
 
 Is this still a problem or has there been changes made to slove it, Can 
 someone point me to a good guide on how to set the RX up to remove the harsh 
 sounding audio.
 
 I will mainly be using a headset as DXing is my main interest.
 
  
 Thanks
 Trevor
 EI2GLB
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio

[Bill]

I am mostly a rag chewer and enjoy armchair copy audio. To that end, I 
found the K3 was sadly lacking in good receive audio. Too much hiss and 
too tinny sounding. In a word, tiring to listen to for long periods of 
time.


I thought about giving up and going back to my trusty TS480 with its 
inherent excellent audio. However, as good as the 480 is, when the chips 
are down for lousy conditions, the K3 shines. It is so flexible in 
operation.


Therein lies the K3's strengths - flexible.

I spend a long time trying many different settings with the K3 (learning 
a lot about the K3's operations along the way), I eventually found some 
settings of the K3's menus that do the job for me. My settings can be 
found at:


http://www.w2blc.net/K3.htm

However, note these are my settings, and you may not like them. They are 
meant for the 75 and 40 meter rag chewer - not the typical DX or contest 
settings.  Your enjoyment may vary.


I had a long-term power outage here the other day and had to resort to 
using the 480 (which had been gathering dust for several months). It 
works very well and does the job well for me - however - (yes, however) 
it just doesn't do as well as the K3 when it comes to summer static and 
adjacent channel interference. It doesn't have a P3 either.


This got a little longer than I intended, but the K3 is the best rig I 
have ever used - and I have been using for over well fifty years.


Bill W2BLC
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio

[Ted Bryant]

Bill,

Are you using headphones or a speaker?  And can you please describe?

73, Ted W4NZ



-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 9:48 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio

I am mostly a rag chewer and enjoy armchair copy audio. To that end, I
found the K3 was sadly lacking in good receive audio. Too much hiss and too
tinny sounding. In a word, tiring to listen to for long periods of time.

I thought about giving up and going back to my trusty TS480 with its
inherent excellent audio. However, as good as the 480 is, when the chips are
down for lousy conditions, the K3 shines. It is so flexible in operation.

Therein lies the K3's strengths - flexible.

I spend a long time trying many different settings with the K3 (learning a
lot about the K3's operations along the way), I eventually found some
settings of the K3's menus that do the job for me. My settings can be found
at:

http://www.w2blc.net/K3.htm

However, note these are my settings, and you may not like them. They are
meant for the 75 and 40 meter rag chewer - not the typical DX or contest
settings.  Your enjoyment may vary.

I had a long-term power outage here the other day and had to resort to using
the 480 (which had been gathering dust for several months). It works very
well and does the job well for me - however - (yes, however) it just doesn't
do as well as the K3 when it comes to summer static and adjacent channel
interference. It doesn't have a P3 either.

This got a little longer than I intended, but the K3 is the best rig I have
ever used - and I have been using for over well fifty years.

Bill W2BLC

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio

[Ted Bryant]

Ok, I see it on your website.

73, Ted W4NZ

-Original Message-
From: Ted Bryant [mailto:w...@comcast.net] 
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 11:02 AM
To: 'elecraft@mailman.qth.net'
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio

Bill,

Are you using headphones or a speaker?  And can you please describe?

73, Ted W4NZ



-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 9:48 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio

I am mostly a rag chewer and enjoy armchair copy audio. To that end, I
found the K3 was sadly lacking in good receive audio. Too much hiss and too
tinny sounding. In a word, tiring to listen to for long periods of time.

I thought about giving up and going back to my trusty TS480 with its
inherent excellent audio. However, as good as the 480 is, when the chips are
down for lousy conditions, the K3 shines. It is so flexible in operation.

Therein lies the K3's strengths - flexible.

I spend a long time trying many different settings with the K3 (learning a
lot about the K3's operations along the way), I eventually found some
settings of the K3's menus that do the job for me. My settings can be found
at:

http://www.w2blc.net/K3.htm

However, note these are my settings, and you may not like them. They are
meant for the 75 and 40 meter rag chewer - not the typical DX or contest
settings.  Your enjoyment may vary.

I had a long-term power outage here the other day and had to resort to using
the 480 (which had been gathering dust for several months). It works very
well and does the job well for me - however - (yes, however) it just doesn't
do as well as the K3 when it comes to summer static and adjacent channel
interference. It doesn't have a P3 either.

This got a little longer than I intended, but the K3 is the best rig I have
ever used - and I have been using for over well fifty years.

Bill W2BLC

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio

[Grant Youngman]

Maybe I'm just deaf to the hiss everyone complains about, but I have to say my 
impression of K3 receive audio is considerably different.  I do have the 
modified board, etc.  And I haven't used the internal speaker since the first 
day I finished the radio.

I do use a pair of RCA 40-5035 speakers that were sold by RatShack some years 
ago but are long discontinued.  These look like the old Minimus 7 but are 
larger and MUCH better, with a 5 speaker and leaf tweeter.  (I have 4 of these 
in the shack, and use them on everything).  The K3 has enough gain to drive 
them with plenty of audio.   In any case, the audio is full, clean, lacking in 
hiss, and just generally good.  I do keep the bandwidth opened up to 3Khz or 
more if conditions are suitable, and the station(s) on the other end aren't 
using a straw for a transmit audio filter.

I generally find that if the receive audio is tinny it's because of what's 
being transmitted … 

YMMV, of course

Grant NQ5T


On Jul 19, 2013, at 8:47 AM, Bill b...@w2blc.net wrote:

 I am mostly a rag chewer and enjoy armchair copy audio. To that end, I 
 found the K3 was sadly lacking in good receive audio. Too much hiss and too 
 tinny sounding. In a word, tiring to listen to for long periods of time.\
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio

[Wayne Burdick]

Trevor Dunne wrote:

 I am allmost ready to order my K3 but I keep reading about people that are 
 unhappy with the RX audio,
 
 Is this still a problem ….


Hi Trevor,

No, it is not still a problem.

When the K3 first shipped, it had a few issues affecting audio that have all 
since been corrected. First, we added a balanced audio low-pass filter to the 
DSP board to remove sampling artifacts above 8 kHz that some operators could 
hear. Next, we made two rounds of firmware changes to improve in-band audio 
IMD. These changes included new AGC algorithms and a bug fix that corrected AGC 
attack/decay linearity. 

The K3's speaker amplifier is a type-AB linear device that can put out 
considerable power into a pair of 4-ohm speakers. While it's true that 
amplifiers in this class can have some low-level IMD products in the -60 to -80 
dB range, I personally cannot hear them, and I have excellent hearing. The 
headphone amplifier is fully class A and will be even cleaner.

What we hear from most K3 owners is how much they enjoy the full-stereo output 
of the radio, which applies to both speakers and headphones. We provide audio 
effects unique to the K3, including simulated stereo and left/right phase 
inversion (AFX MD menu entry), and full control over main/sub RX audio panning 
(L-MIX-R menu entry). These features can reduce fatigue and create a much 
richer audio experience.

There is a small statistical probability that I'm biassed, so seek other 
opinions as well :)

73,
Wayne
N6KR


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio

[Jim Brown]

On 7/19/2013 8:45 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

No, it is not still a problem.


I'm a retired audio professional, and I've always been happy with the 
K3's audio. I have always used headphones for serious operating, and 
have outboard speakers for armchair monitoring.


The only issues I have had with the K3 audio relate to really dumb 
implementation of the I/O (RF chokes in series with cable shields, 
transformers where they are not needed, 600 ohm resistors in series with 
transformer primaries, 600 ohm termination of inputs), some of which 
have been corrected.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

While the internal speaker is certainly adequate for most listening, you
want headphones or a pair of external speakers to enjoy all of the
possibilities when using AFX or the subreceiver. And there is no doubt the
pair of inexpensive bookshelf speakers I have produce better audio than
the internal speaker, but that is not surprise to me. 

Further, the K3 has a multi-band audio equalizer accessed through the menu
that allows you to tailor the audio bandpass to your liking.

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Trevor Dunne
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 4:16 AM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio

Hi All

I am allmost ready to order my K3 but I keep reading about people that are
unhappy with the RX audio,

Is this still a problem or has there been changes made to slove it, Can
someone point me to a good guide on how to set the RX up to remove the harsh
sounding audio.

I will mainly be using a headset as DXing is my main interest.

 
Thanks
Trevor
EI2GLB

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 RX Audio

[Ralph Parker]

...I found the K3 was sadly lacking in good receive audio. Too much hiss and
too tinny sounding... tiring to listen to for long periods of time.

My sediments exactly, when I first got my K3 (#1823). I'm an ex-audio pro too.
However, after the audio board upgrade, and the 'newer' software (4.51?),
I'm  happy with the audio quality. Definitely a worthwhile mod.

Only one thing left to do to make me ecstatic -
separate audio gain menu settings for headset and speakers.
Lo gain setting is best for my headset, but nowhere near loud enough for
a speaker (I've tried many external speakers).
High gain setting hurts my ears inside my headset, but has good level for
speaker monitoring while I'm in the shack.

You could consider this a feature request.

Ralph, VE7XF

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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX Gain Calibration

[Fred Smith]

Amen! I have worked stations SSB that never move the S-Meter at all.




73,
Fred/N0AZZ
K3 Ser #'s 6730/5299--KX3 # 2573--K2/100--KAT100
P3/SVGA--KPA500--KAT500--W2




-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Gary Gregory
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 9:45 PM
To: Ron D'Eau Claire
Cc: Elecraft List
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX Gain Calibration

Exactly

Gary
Vk1ZZ
K3, KX3, KPA500-FT, KAT500-FT,P3.
On 20/03/2013 11:59 AM, Ron D'Eau Claire r...@cobi.biz wrote:

 Sometimes I truly believe that one of the worst plagues imposed on the 
 Hams of the world was the S-Meter.

 In short, it means little about whether you can hear a signal or how 
 easily it can be copied.

 True signal reports are given by what you hear, not what the meter says.

 73 Ron AC7AC


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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX Gain Calibration

[Wes Stewart]

If he was DX, I'll bet he was 59.

--- On Wed, 3/20/13, Fred Smith m...@mo-net.com wrote:


Amen! I have worked stations SSB that never move the S-Meter at all.




73,
Fred/N0AZZ
K3 Ser #'s 6730/5299--KX3 # 2573--K2/100--KAT100
P3/SVGA--KPA500--KAT500--W2


Exactly

Gary
Vk1ZZ
K3, KX3, KPA500-FT, KAT500-FT,P3.
On 20/03/2013 11:59 AM, Ron D'Eau Claire r...@cobi.biz wrote:

 Sometimes I truly believe that one of the worst plagues imposed on the 
 Hams of the world was the S-Meter.

 In short, it means little about whether you can hear a signal or how 
 easily it can be copied.

 True signal reports are given by what you hear, not what the meter says.

 73 Ron AC7AC


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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX Gain Calibration

[Edward R Cole]

This discussion prompts me to make the comparisons on my K3 (4340) 
and KX3 (475).  I have an XG3 which I have installed in a diecast 
aluminum box (Hammond Box) so it is able to produce signals down to 
-155 dBm using external attenuators and double-shielded coax cables.


I calibrate the XG3 at 0-dBm with my mw power meter (HP432A) and it 
is within a dB accurate.  Above 200-MHz harmonics are used so one 
cannot measure output without using a bw filter, since the 
fundamental freq and harmonics add to total power.


One should note measurements with preamp on/off and what bandwidth 
they are made.  I believe all Elecraft specs are made at 500-KHz bw.


May be a few days until I get the results to post, but I love both 
these radios for their differences, as well.


73, Ed - KL7UW

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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX Gain Calibration

[Stan AE7UT]

Travis I was in your same situation and understand what your experiencing.
I got my KX3 first and was blown away by how quiet and sensitive it was.
The KX3 was so impressive I sold my entire Ten-Ten station and built a K3.

I was disappointed that the K3 receiver didn't seem to be as good as the
KX3.
I finally broke down and bought the XG3 signal generator and did all the
calibrations.  That has made the world of difference... but I still like the
KX3
receiver more.  I also read and implimented Don's Noisy K3 article.  The
K3
still doesn't seem as quiet and sensitive as the KX3.  

Let me know if you find the secret formula!  I'm still working on it myself.
I'm 100% satisfied with my K3 and LOVE it compared to the TT stuff.
I just want to be 110% satisfied.  LOL

73
Stan AE7UT



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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX Gain Calibration

[Travis Brown]

Thanks Stan.  I ordered a XG3 yesterday and I hope to have it here this
week.  I wasn't expecting such a huge discrepancy between the KX3 and K3,
and it really surprised me.  If I figure out the secret sauce, I'll
definitely let you know.  I am curious, with did you put the KX3 and K3 on
the XG3 and see a discrepancy in the  S-Meter reading?  If so, how much?

Thanks,
Travis K2NP

On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 7:16 PM, Stan AE7UT ae7...@gmail.com wrote:

 I was disappointed that the K3 receiver didn't seem to be as good as the
 KX3.
 I finally broke down and bought the XG3 signal generator and did all the
 calibrations.  That has made the world of difference... but I still like
 the
 KX3
 receiver more.  I also read and implimented Don's Noisy K3 article.  The
 K3
 still doesn't seem as quiet and sensitive as the KX3.

 Let me know if you find the secret formula!  I'm still working on it
 myself.
 I'm 100% satisfied with my K3 and LOVE it compared to the TT stuff.
 I just want to be 110% satisfied.  LOL

 73
 Stan AE7UT



 --
 View this message in context:
 http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-RX-Gain-Calibration-tp7571455p7571525.html
 Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX Gain Calibration

[Don Wilhelm]

Travis,

The real measure of any receiver in the ability to hear weak signals is 
not in the S-meter deflection.  Within limits both the K3 and KX3 
S-meters can be calibrated to read most anything you want to see.
The measurement of actual sensitivity is in the MDS measurement. That 
indicates how weak a signal can be heard at 3 dB above the receiver 
noise floor.
When you get your XG3, I encourage you to follow the instructions in the 
XG3 manual for determining the MDS of a receiver.  With the XG3, that is 
a number inferred by the response at -107 dBm rather than a measurement 
using a well shielded signal generator and switching in attenuation, but 
the approximation should be within 1 dB of the actual MDS if you do the 
procedure (and math) as instructed.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/19/2013 7:26 PM, Travis Brown wrote:

Thanks Stan.  I ordered a XG3 yesterday and I hope to have it here this
week.  I wasn't expecting such a huge discrepancy between the KX3 and K3,
and it really surprised me.  If I figure out the secret sauce, I'll
definitely let you know.  I am curious, with did you put the KX3 and K3 on
the XG3 and see a discrepancy in the  S-Meter reading?  If so, how much?




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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX Gain Calibration

[Travis Brown]

Hi Don,

 I agree 100%!   The S-Meter isn't as big of a concern to me as the fact that 
the noise floor seems to be so much more prevalent on the K3 than the KX3. I do 
understand that the more sensitive receiver will dip deeper into the noise 
floor and you will hear more of it.  If I always have to turn down the RF gain 
though, and the S-Meter shows something even when their is no antenna attached, 
I think it is worth it to calibrate things.  It's not like me to read manual, 
but so far, I have a pretty good track record of reading everything Elecraft 
sends me from cover to cover :)

73,
Travis K2NP

On Mar 19, 2013, at 8:12 PM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote:

 Travis,
 
 The real measure of any receiver in the ability to hear weak signals is not 
 in the S-meter deflection.  Within limits both the K3 and KX3 S-meters can be 
 calibrated to read most anything you want to see.
 The measurement of actual sensitivity is in the MDS measurement. That 
 indicates how weak a signal can be heard at 3 dB above the receiver noise 
 floor.
 When you get your XG3, I encourage you to follow the instructions in the XG3 
 manual for determining the MDS of a receiver.  With the XG3, that is a number 
 inferred by the response at -107 dBm rather than a measurement using a well 
 shielded signal generator and switching in attenuation, but the approximation 
 should be within 1 dB of the actual MDS if you do the procedure (and math) as 
 instructed.
 
 73,
 Don W3FPR

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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX Gain Calibration

[Don Wilhelm]

Travis,

The S-meter should not indicate anything with the antenna disconnected.  
You should be searching for the reason the AGC is being activated on 
receiver noise - or it could be S-meter calibration.  The XG3 can allow 
you to properly calibrate the S-meter - the Utility program will guide you.


73,
Don W3FPR
On 3/19/2013 8:34 PM, Travis Brown wrote:

Hi Don,

  I agree 100%!   The S-Meter isn't as big of a concern to me as the fact that 
the noise floor seems to be so much more prevalent on the K3 than the KX3. I do 
understand that the more sensitive receiver will dip deeper into the noise 
floor and you will hear more of it.  If I always have to turn down the RF gain 
though, and the S-Meter shows something even when their is no antenna attached, 
I think it is worth it to calibrate things.  It's not like me to read manual, 
but so far, I have a pretty good track record of reading everything Elecraft 
sends me from cover to cover :)

73,
Travis K2NP

On Mar 19, 2013, at 8:12 PM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote:


Travis,

The real measure of any receiver in the ability to hear weak signals is not in 
the S-meter deflection.  Within limits both the K3 and KX3 S-meters can be 
calibrated to read most anything you want to see.
The measurement of actual sensitivity is in the MDS measurement. That indicates 
how weak a signal can be heard at 3 dB above the receiver noise floor.
When you get your XG3, I encourage you to follow the instructions in the XG3 
manual for determining the MDS of a receiver.  With the XG3, that is a number 
inferred by the response at -107 dBm rather than a measurement using a well 
shielded signal generator and switching in attenuation, but the approximation 
should be within 1 dB of the actual MDS if you do the procedure (and math) as 
instructed.

73,
Don W3FPR

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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX Gain Calibration

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Sometimes I truly believe that one of the worst plagues imposed on the Hams
of the world was the S-Meter. 

In short, it means little about whether you can hear a signal or how easily
it can be copied.

True signal reports are given by what you hear, not what the meter says.  

73 Ron AC7AC


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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX Gain Calibration

[Don Wilhelm]

Travis,

I doubt the RX gain calibration will make that much difference, but 
rather I suggest that some alteration of the AGC parameters will make 
the most difference for you.  Take a look at the Noisy K3 article on 
my website www.w3fpr.com for some guidance in adjusting your settings.   
That article was written before the AGC parameters were expanded, so you 
will have to experiment a bit, but the article should give you some 
guidance on which direction to go.


Turning the preamp off and even turning the attenuator on for lower 
bands where the band noise is higher will make a great difference too.  
If you can hear an increase in band noise when the antenna is connected, 
you have ample gain - turn off the preamp and try connecting the antenna 
again - if there is still a substantial increase, try turning on the 
attenuator.  You are not going to be able to copy signals below the 
noise level, so you don't need the added gain - it just makes everything 
(including the noise) sound louder.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/18/2013 8:24 AM, Travis Brown wrote:

All,

  I put together a K3 kit about 6 weeks ago. Wow, that was an amazing
project.  Many thanks to Elecraft for making that option available.  The
problem I am having is that on 180/80/75/40 and sometimes 20, the noise
floor is about S7-9.  It is about the same on both my antennas (OCF dipole
and 43' vertical) with the OCF being a smidge quieter.  My first thought
was that I had some local noise and asked my dad to bring over is KX3 so I
could walk around the house to find the source of the noise.  I did find
that the power supply in the iMac is ridiculously noisy, but that wasn't
getting into my signal, especially since my antennas are almost 100' from
the house.  What I DID notice was that when I plugged my antennas into the
KX3, the noise floor was at S0 on 20/40 and around S1 or S2 on 75/80/180
with the pre-amp off.  That was MUCH better.  Of course, if I fiddle with
the RX gain knob, I can make the noise go away, but it does mess with the
S-Meter and it becomes increasingly useless.  So, my thought was that since
my dad had his KX3 factory built, they did a proper RX Gain calibration.
Since I didn't have a calibrated signal generator, I just used the factory
defaults which maybe aren't so great?  My question is this: would it make
sense to seek out a calibrated RF source and try and run a proper RX Gain
calibration?  Would it likely solve my problem?

Thanks,
Travis
K2NP
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX Gain Calibration

[Travis Brown]

Thanks Don.

I will definitely tweak the AGC settings. Someone else recommended that
too. However, I thought the KX3 and K3 had basically the same receiver, and
if I hook the KX3 up to the same antenna that to which my K3 was connected,
the S-meter should report the same values regardless of the AGC setting,
correct?

Thanks,
Travis


On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote:

 Travis,

 I doubt the RX gain calibration will make that much difference, but rather
 I suggest that some alteration of the AGC parameters will make the most
 difference for you.  Take a look at the Noisy K3 article on my website
 www.w3fpr.com for some guidance in adjusting your settings.   That
 article was written before the AGC parameters were expanded, so you will
 have to experiment a bit, but the article should give you some guidance on
 which direction to go.

 Turning the preamp off and even turning the attenuator on for lower bands
 where the band noise is higher will make a great difference too.  If you
 can hear an increase in band noise when the antenna is connected, you have
 ample gain - turn off the preamp and try connecting the antenna again - if
 there is still a substantial increase, try turning on the attenuator.  You
 are not going to be able to copy signals below the noise level, so you
 don't need the added gain - it just makes everything (including the noise)
 sound louder.

 73,
 Don W3FPR


 On 3/18/2013 8:24 AM, Travis Brown wrote:

 All,

   I put together a K3 kit about 6 weeks ago. Wow, that was an amazing
 project.  Many thanks to Elecraft for making that option available.  The
 problem I am having is that on 180/80/75/40 and sometimes 20, the noise
 floor is about S7-9.  It is about the same on both my antennas (OCF dipole
 and 43' vertical) with the OCF being a smidge quieter.  My first thought
 was that I had some local noise and asked my dad to bring over is KX3 so I
 could walk around the house to find the source of the noise.  I did find
 that the power supply in the iMac is ridiculously noisy, but that wasn't
 getting into my signal, especially since my antennas are almost 100' from
 the house.  What I DID notice was that when I plugged my antennas into the
 KX3, the noise floor was at S0 on 20/40 and around S1 or S2 on 75/80/180
 with the pre-amp off.  That was MUCH better.  Of course, if I fiddle with
 the RX gain knob, I can make the noise go away, but it does mess with the
 S-Meter and it becomes increasingly useless.  So, my thought was that
 since
 my dad had his KX3 factory built, they did a proper RX Gain calibration.
 Since I didn't have a calibrated signal generator, I just used the factory
 defaults which maybe aren't so great?  My question is this: would it make
 sense to seek out a calibrated RF source and try and run a proper RX Gain
 calibration?  Would it likely solve my problem?

 Thanks,
 Travis
 K2NP
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX Gain Calibration

[Don Wilhelm]

Travis,

The KX3 is a direct to baseband receiver with the DSP being done at 
baseband (or if RX shift is on at 8 kHz.) while the K3 downconverts to 
the 8 MHz IF before digitizing and sending the data to the DSP.


So the two receiver architectures are different.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/18/2013 9:25 AM, Travis Brown wrote:

Thanks Don.

I will definitely tweak the AGC settings. Someone else recommended that
too. However, I thought the KX3 and K3 had basically the same receiver, and
if I hook the KX3 up to the same antenna that to which my K3 was connected,
the S-meter should report the same values regardless of the AGC setting,
correct?

Thanks,
Travis



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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX Gain Calibration

[Mike Rodgers]

Travis, that's interesting that the KX3 was quiet. Sometimes I think the k3 is 
just too sensitive. I don't know if that's it or not. I've certainly wondered. 

Please share if you find the secret sauce. 

73
Mike R

Play me some fiddle, but no stinkin' violin!

Amateur/Ham Radio KE5GBC
HF  Echolink mobile
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX Attenuator value, and COR activation level.

[Brett Howard]

the ATTN is 10dB.  Not sure where the CORs activate however.  I do know
that I've hit them before though.. :)
Not sure if this helps you but I do also know that you can get to +20dBm
and as long as you have the extreme signal protection mod done to your
radio (or it was built after 9/1/2009) before the CORs are activated and
your ATT will be automatically engaged to protect the RX post amp.

~Brett (N7MG)

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 12:52 AM, g0afh g0...@g0afh.com wrote:

 Hi,

 What is the value of the RX attenuator in the K3?

 At what level does the carrier operated relay protection operate?

 73
 Ian
 G0AFH
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] RX Attenuator value, and COR activation level.

[g0afh]

Thanks for the link. I recall seeing the wire when I checked to see if 
the IF out level mod had been done.

73
Ian

On 13/06/2012 10:16, Brett Howard wrote:
 If you want to check and be absolutely certain check this document out:
 http://www.elecraft.com/K3/mods/K3%20rx%20protection%20mod,%20rev%20B.pdf

 ~Brett (N7MG)

 On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 2:14 AM, g0afh g0...@g0afh.com 
 mailto:g0...@g0afh.com wrote:

 Thanks, useful to know.

 I am trying to optimise my 2m system to deal with some
 exceptionally strong signals. The transverter o/p can reach about
 +15dBm before compression, but I think the K3 may be overloaded
 before then. I managed to activate the COR during testing last night.

 My K3 was made in June 2010 so should have the extreme signal
 protection mod.

 73
 Ian
 G0AFH.


 On 13/06/2012 09:19, Brett Howard wrote:
 the ATTN is 10dB.  Not sure where the CORs activate however.  I
 do know that I've hit them before though.. :)
 Not sure if this helps you but I do also know that you can get to
 +20dBm and as long as you have the extreme signal protection mod
 done to your radio (or it was built after 9/1/2009) before the
 CORs are activated and your ATT will be automatically engaged to
 protect the RX post amp.

 ~Brett (N7MG)

 On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 12:52 AM, g0afh g0...@g0afh.com
 mailto:g0...@g0afh.com wrote:

 Hi,

 What is the value of the RX attenuator in the K3?

 At what level does the carrier operated relay protection operate?

 73
 Ian
 G0AFH
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - RX audio degradation with ANF

[Lu Romero]

I agree, in more ways than one, that we are talking apples
and oranges here.  The code between the devices has similar
applications, but a Sabine Feedback Destroyer has multiple
instances operating in a dedicated processor with nothing
else to do but find the carriers while the K3 ANF is
sharing its runtime with lots of other priorities.

Another issue is that the ANF cannot remove the audio
covered up by the interfering carrier, NOTHING can do this. 
All ANF can do is throw a notch over the interfering
frequency... That is what it does, it cant actually REMOVE
the coherent interferance from the incoherent
intelligence.

I was just at the NAB show where I saw a demonstration of a
technology that does extract the underlying audio, which was
truly magic. Also saw a demo of a video editing system
(Adobe Premiere) that has a similar feature built in. Lots
of non real time processing is needed to do this magic,
however. 

If the ANF can be made better, great.  I find it acceptable.
 Not perfect, but acceptable.  If making it better doubles
the price of the radio, then Im not for it, for what its
worth :)

-lu-w4lt-



Message: 24
Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 16:50:24 -0500
From: W4ATK w4...@bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - RX audio degradation with ANF
To: Bill b...@w2blc.net
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Message-ID:
74bdcaf3-fca6-44df-a0e5-21728e101...@bellsouth.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I think we may be comparing apples to oranges here.

In the K3 digital ANF, the notch filter is looking for
coherent signals. The premise
is that audio is less coherent than a CW carrier.  Thus the
ANF finds the
coherent CW carrier and notches it out,  leaving the
remaining audio.



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - RX audio degradation with ANF

[Lu Romero]

I hear it.  I have always heard it.  Its always been there.

I think the distortion you are hearing and seeing in the
waterfall you looked at is the notch in the audio itself and
the ANF routine's hunting around for the frequency to
notch as it samples the audio its being fed.  

Within the audio spectrum of a voice there are many
frequencies, and they are constantly changing as speech is
being produced.  The tone (of the carrier) you are trying to
notch also falls within those frequencies.  The notch
produced by the ANF has a finite width and depth plus or
minus several cycles, as you noticed in the waterfall, which
has a rise time and a fall time. When that is superimposed
over a voice, there is a comb filter like effect in some
frequencies adjecent to the tone you are notching as the
automatic notch routine samples and then attempts to blank
the interfering tone.  

We are talking about notching audio here, ANF cant magically
get rid of just the tone and leave what is being covered up
by the tone alone, it has to get rid of ALL the energy in
the spectrum occupied by the tone, plus or minus the notch
filter width and depth, so there literally is a hole
there, and it moves as the voice and the tone mix.  You
hear the hole, and notice that something is missing.  The
hole moves around as the interference is blanked and the
ANF refreshes its decision at whatever frequency it samples
of what it needs to blank.  That's why you dont see it in
the manual notch, that one does not move around on its own.

At least this is my long winded guess to what one hears
here.  K9YC may have a better way of explaining this than me
(Im a duffer, he's a pro at this game).

Ive always heard this to a greater or lesser extent in any
radio or device that notches audio frequencies
automatically.  So called feedback destroyers in stage and
studio audio have the same function as ANF, I hear this
effect on them as well to a greater or lesser extent.  They
have gotten so good lately that it is barely preceptible,
but its there, you can see it on a spectrum analyser.
(Google Sabine Adaptive Audio to see a representative
device, their older devices sound quite similar to what you
hear in the K3 ANF; the newer ones are truly magical!). 

I dont think that it is *THAT* objectionable... It is there,
I hear it, but I know why it is happening. Is it normal?
Maybe. Could it be better?  Possibly.  I find it acceptable.
Its a great aural reminder that you have the auto notch
turned on!

-lu-w4lt-

---

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Tim Tucker
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:57 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - RX audio degradation with ANF

ANF is the common use abbreviation for Auto Notch Filter.  A
lot of rigs use
that nomenclature.

The K3's ANF on SSB has not worked correctly IMO for several
firmware
releases.  Someone posted a fix a while back that involved
resetting back to
factory settings, rolling back to a previous firmware,
reloading all your
settings and then loading the current firmware.  That's a
lot of work and I
was hoping a more elegant fix could be implemented in a
firmware update.

In my experience, the issue isn't so much extreme distortion
on the signal,
it's that it doesn't notch the offending signal properly. 
To reproduce,
watch your RX signal with a strong carrier on a waterfall
with a computer
application like MixW.  Turn on the ANF and you'll see that
the K3 notches
on either side of the offending carrier, but not actually
right on the
carrier.  If you have good ears, you can hear this yourself.
 The manual
notch works fine, of course.

I haven't tried the latest beta firmware, so I don't know if
this issue has
been addressed yet.  It needs to be addressed, though.

Tim



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - RX audio degradation with ANF

[Bill]

You said, They have gotten so good lately that it is barely 
preceptible, but its there, you can see it on a spectrum analyser. 
(Google Sabine Adaptive Audio to see a representative device, their 
older devices sound quite similar to what you hear in the K3 ANF; the 
newer ones are truly magical!).

Professional musicians are the pickiest sound folks in the world. What 
the K3 does would be most unacceptable to them and I can say that, for 
sure, I have never heard similar at any professional music venue. The 
musicians would strangle the audio tech if it were so.

All professional automatic notch filtering used in the music field is 
done at the what we call the audio level. It is their ONLY level, as 
they are not working with IFs etc. Hence, I can only assume that the 
audio level automatic notch filtering found in the K3 is not yet up to 
par. I say yet as that is the advantage of updates. At some point in 
the future, the ANF can be brought up to higher standards.

In the interim, there are AGC settings that can be varied - resulting in 
more acceptable listening. Specifically, using AGC SLP level at 2 makes 
a major improvement to my ears.

-- 
IN GOD I TRUST (but, NOT a single politician)
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - RX audio degradation with ANF

[W4ATK]

I think we may be comparing apples to oranges here.

In the K3 digital ANF, the notch filter is looking for coherent signals. The 
premise is that audio is less coherent than a CW carrier.  Thus the ANF finds 
the coherent CW carrier and notches it out,  leaving the remaining audio.


On May 19, 2012, at 4:27 PM, Bill wrote:

 You said, They have gotten so good lately that it is barely 
 preceptible, but its there, you can see it on a spectrum analyser. 
 (Google Sabine Adaptive Audio to see a representative device, their 
 older devices sound quite similar to what you hear in the K3 ANF; the 
 newer ones are truly magical!).
 
 Professional musicians are the pickiest sound folks in the world. What 
 the K3 does would be most unacceptable to them and I can say that, for 
 sure, I have never heard similar at any professional music venue. The 
 musicians would strangle the audio tech if it were so.
 
 All professional automatic notch filtering used in the music field is 
 done at the what we call the audio level. It is their ONLY level, as 
 they are not working with IFs etc. Hence, I can only assume that the 
 audio level automatic notch filtering found in the K3 is not yet up to 
 par. I say yet as that is the advantage of updates. At some point in 
 the future, the ANF can be brought up to higher standards.
 
 In the interim, there are AGC settings that can be varied - resulting in 
 more acceptable listening. Specifically, using AGC SLP level at 2 makes 
 a major improvement to my ears.
 
 -- 
 IN GOD I TRUST (but, NOT a single politician)
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - RX audio degradation with ANF

[Don Wilhelm]

Bill,

Please enlighten me - I have searched through the K3 manual, and do not 
find anything labeled ANF
If you would please give whatever you are trying to run the same label 
used in the K3 manual perhaps we can provide some answer.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/18/2012 7:52 AM, Bill wrote:
 I am reposting this question, as I received no responses the first time:

 I generally only use the ANF when it is needed. I do not run it all the
 time. The reason I do not run the ANF all the time is a slight
 degradation of the quality of the SSB received audio when it is engaged.
 Although it does not interfere with the intelligibility of the audio -
 it does introduce a fuzzy aspect to otherwise armchair copy.


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