[Emc-users] Hello everyone!

[Jim Coleman]

Hello everyone on the emc users list!  My name is Jim and I hope we'll be
getting to know each other pretty well.  I'm a machinist, living in Ohio.
Straight out of high school (vocational school, 2 years of 'Precision
Machining Technologies') I'm working part time at a local machine shop
running 3 and 4 axis vertical mills or sometimes a lathe.  If I ever go on
to college, I think I'll major in business management or electrical
engineering.  I've been into tinkerin with electronics since i was around 5,
mostly involved ripping toys apart and rigging speakers together, until I
got a radioshack experamenting kit for Christmas when i was 6, the cardboard
ones with spring terminals, and I've since gotten into radio (CB, scanners)
and computers and overclocking, and dabbled a tiny bit in microcontrollers.

I recently purchased (actually still have to get the damn thing moved!) an
older Hitachi Seiki VM-40 VMC, which has some damage and the computer is
going senile as i like to put it.  As you've probably already figured out,
this is where EMC is coming into the picture.  I am planning on replacing
the control with a P4 2.6 rig, 1 gig ECC ram PC with a mesa 5i20 card.  I
have seen discussion of using a filtered PWM signal to drive a servo amp,
and was wondering how accurate this would be, and if it was a viable option
to buying a servo amp interface.  If not that, could a DAC be used?  I'm
still cloudy on how the servo amp works with the signaling and stuff, but
trying to learn none the less.  The servos are Sanyo Denki BL Super, 1.3 kw
for x and y and 2.8 for Z, spindle is a mitsubishi freqrol VFD on a 7.5 hp
6000 rpm motor.  after I get those working, I'd like to get the tool changer
fixed, one of the problems with the machine, the Y axis either encoder or
amp malfunctioned, and ran the spindle into the tool changer arm and bent it
up.  and I need to figure out if its the encoder or amp, but I should be
able to hook the encoder's a and b to a parallel port and find out right?
and use the parport to hook up the handle, its a 100 count encoder in a
little box with XYZ 1 10 100 buttons.

I plan on starting individual threads when I get things together (money for
a mesa card, getting the machine moved...) and run into problems.  really
looking forward to using emc, and glad I found it before I went with mach.
Jim Coleman
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Re: [Emc-users] Hello everyone!

[Jim Coleman]

i was gonna use pixies.  and i have a scope, an old tektronix dual trace,
only problem is it was recently through a flood, and i havnt cleaned it out
and i'll probably have to replace a bunch of pots i think, hopefully the
varialbe caps will be alright.  it hasnt been in calibration for 20 years,
so its a 'near idea' tool, i need to get around to cleanin it out and all,
but between lack of time and dreading how its gonna look, i still havnt.
the manual says +/- 9V max for the servo control.  i was wondering, if
anyone might have some source to datasheets or anything for the sanyo
denkis, ive googled the model numbers and havnt gotten very far.

i found a little piece of software for reading encoders for running a DRO on
a manual machine, i think that will do the trick for testing the encoders,
i'll run to radioshack when im out and about and buy the parts to hook it
all up.

On 10/1/07, Jon Elson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Jim Coleman wrote:
> >
> > I recently purchased (actually still have to get the damn thing moved!)
> > an older Hitachi Seiki VM-40 VMC, which has some damage and the computer
> > is going senile as i like to put it.  As you've probably already figured
> > out, this is where EMC is coming into the picture.  I am planning on
> > replacing the control with a P4 2.6 rig, 1 gig ECC ram PC with a mesa
> > 5i20 card.  I have seen discussion of using a filtered PWM signal to
> > drive a servo amp, and was wondering how accurate this would be, and if
> > it was a viable option to buying a servo amp interface.  If not that,
> > could a DAC be used?  I'm still cloudy on how the servo amp works with
> > the signaling and stuff, but trying to learn none the less.  The servos
> > are Sanyo Denki BL Super, 1.3 kw for x and y and 2.8 for Z,
> First, you need to find out what the old controller sent to the
> servo amps to control them.  If it is +/- 10 V velocity
> commands, then it would be best to drve that with a real DAC.
>   spindle is a
> > mitsubishi freqrol VFD on a 7.5 hp 6000 rpm motor.
> Again, you need to check out what the control sent to the VFD to
> control speed, but likely 0 to +10 V for 0 to max speed.
>after I get those
> > working, I'd like to get the tool changer fixed, one of the problems
> > with the machine, the Y axis either encoder or amp malfunctioned, and
> > ran the spindle into the tool changer arm and bent it up.  and I need to
> > figure out if its the encoder or amp, but I should be able to hook the
> > encoder's a and b to a parallel port and find out right?  and use the
> > parport to hook up the handle, its a 100 count encoder in a little box
> > with XYZ 1 10 100 buttons.
> >
> it might be time to buy a second-hand oscilloscope on eBay.
> > I plan on starting individual threads when I get things together (money
> > for a mesa card, getting the machine moved...) and run into problems.
> > really looking forward to using emc, and glad I found it before I went
> > with mach.
> You probably could not run this machine in the intended servo
> mode with Mach.
>
> Jon
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Hello everyone!

[Jim Coleman]

I'm hooking up the encoder to parport circuit right now, decided to take a
break from that and check the email.  the mill is going to be set even
farther back, until i can get my car fixed.  i wrecked it tonight, a deer
jumped out and between the brakes and swerving, i lost it.  so if anyone has
an 88 cavalier parts car they can give me cheap let me know haha.  aside
from minor body work the only thing that seems to be wrong is the fact that
the rear driver side wheel found itself a new happy place a few inches
toward the center of the car, and doesnt turn.  i got the car home on it's
own power at least, and for that im glad.  i've been trying to keep my mind
off of it, thus working on the encoder stuff  but my solder and
multimeter are conveniently out in the car :'(

as for the wiring, i plan to keep most of the runs for like motors / linear
scales and such in place, and everything else will likely get redone, maybe
keep the power distribution for the servo amps as well.  We're supposed to
get it moved soon as harvesting is over, then i'll be able to spend more
time diggin through everything.  i managed to rip off the computer and the
servo amps and power supply, its sittin in the shop waitin for the rest of
the machine.  i figured i could play with the amps and the motors on the
table till they all goin good then put them back on the machine.

i thank you all for your input so far
Jim

On 10/2/07, Mark Pictor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> --- Jim Coleman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> snip
>
> > I'd like to get the
> > tool changer
> > fixed, one of the problems with the machine, the Y axis either
> > encoder or
> > amp malfunctioned, and ran the spindle into the tool changer arm
> > and bent it
> > up.  and I need to figure out if its the encoder or amp, but I
>
> It could be the controller itself, rather than the encoder or drive
> - you did say the controller was going senile.
>
> > should be
> > able to hook the encoder's a and b to a parallel port and find
> > out right?
>
> yup
>
> > and use the parport to hook up the handle, its a 100 count
> > encoder in a
> > little box with XYZ 1 10 100 buttons.
> >
> > I plan on starting individual threads when I get things together
> > (money for
> > a mesa card, getting the machine moved...) and run into problems.
>
> The Mazak stuff will help you.  First thing to test is the estop
> button. :)
>
> >  really
> > looking forward to using emc, and glad I found it before I went
> > with mach.
> > Jim Coleman
>
> Mark
>
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Re: [Emc-users] hal servo questions

[Jim Coleman]

im pretty sure the 7805 5V regulator would work for ya, to provide a 5V
logic supply from the 24V supply, they should only be a dollar or 2 at
radioshack.  then you could eliminate the atx supply.  I would also stick in
a wire to ground to the chassis of the pc. i'd be afraid of the port sinking
a decent amount of current and frying out.  even a wire from the parport
plug to a ring terminal on one of the case screws in the back should do the
trick.

On 10/11/07, Sebastian Kuzminsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Chris Radek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I think my linearity is much better than you describe.  Maybe try
> > pure pwm mode (not pdm)?  Or it may just be a matter of your low
> > power supply.  I'm using 24V on mine.
>
> I picked up a new power supply (24 VDC, 3.6 A), but I couldnt get my
> setup to work with it.
>
>
> The old setup that does work:
>
> PC on its own internal ATX power supply.
>
> PC parallel port connected to L298 driver circuit.
>
> Driver logic powered by a stand-alone ATX power supply.
>
> Driver ground tied to PC ground via parallel port ground lines.
>
> Driver gets motor power from the stand-alone ATX +12V.
>
>
> What I tried was this:
>
> Tied the new PS ground to the rest of the system ground on the driver
> circuit board.
>
> Unplugged the stand-alone ATX 12V from the L298 motor supply input.
>
> Plugged the 24V from the new PS to the L298 motor supply input.
>
>
> When I plugged this in, the stand-alone ATX power supply would shut down.
> Sketchy!  Disconnecting the 24V supply and powercycling the stand-alone
> ATX PS would bring it back.  The PC stayed up through all this and
> seemed unaffected.
>
>
> My theory is that the new 24V PS ground was sinking current that the
> stand-alone ATX was sourcing, tripping some sort of GFCI protection in
> the stand-alone ATX power supply, causing it to temporarily shut down.
>
>
> So now my plan is to get rid of the stand-alone ATX power supply entirely,
> and substitute a little 5VDC, 500+ mA wall-wart transformer for the
> driver logic power supply.  Seem reasonable?
>
>
> What power architecture are other people using?
>
> Do you worry about ground loops?
>
> Motor noise in the logic supply?
>
> Is optical isolation between the PC and the servo drivers common?
>
>
> --
> Sebastian Kuzminsky
>
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Re: [Emc-users] hal servo questions

[Jim Coleman]

On 10/11/07, Sebastian Kuzminsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "Jim Coleman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > im pretty sure the 7805 5V regulator would work for ya, to provide a 5V
> > logic supply from the 24V supply, they should only be a dollar or 2 at
> > radioshack.  then you could eliminate the atx supply.
>
> Heh, I just discovered the LM7805, and yeah it looks like it'd work.  :-)
>
>
> >I would also
> stick in
> > a wire to ground to the chassis of the pc. i'd be afraid of the port
> sinking
> > a decent amount of current and frying out.  even a wire from the parport
> > plug to a ring terminal on one of the case screws in the back should do
> the
> > trick.
>
> Are you suggesting a fat ground wire from the ground on the driver
> circuit to the case of the PC?


pretty much, in case there is some wicked ground loop, or an accident, you'd
have a current path directly to the computer's case instead of having to go
through the parallel port and across the ground traces on the motherboard.
i dont know the parallel port's limit on the ground, but i know i would feel
better having a second ground in place.

--
> Sebastian Kuzminsky
>
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[Emc-users] cheap source for m5i20?

[Jim Coleman]

hey everyone, im planning on using the m5i20 card for my conversion of my
hitachi seiki VM40, and was wondering if anyone has a source for the cards
for cheaper than on the site.  I know that from experience with equipment we
bought when i was with a wireless ISP, we could usually source boards
cheaper than from the manu's site.  if i could get the mesa for a little
cheaper, i can start playin with all my goodies sooner, caus right now its
gonna be a while, me and the lady are gettin our first place together, and
that's gonna pretty much consume my whole paycheck, so its gonna be savin
pennies till i can afford it.

on a different note, if theres anyone in the central ohio area lookin for a
full time machinist, and it isnt too much of a drive let me know, i'm
looking to move from my current part time job.

thanks guys
Jim
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Re: [Emc-users] Threading Hickups

[Jim Coleman]

On 10/18/07, Jon Elson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Kirk Wallace wrote:
> > Thanks again Jon and Chris. What should have been obvious turns out to
> > be the problem. Graphing the encoder index shows random pulses mixed in
> > with the regular pulses. I really did not want this to be the problem
> > since I had already gone through fixing another issue with this encoder.
> > I guess wishing is not a valid method for repairing machinery.
> >
> > Before, I had a problem with the encoder disk position coupled with a
> > wobble. Now it seems to be an EMI problem because I get occasional index
> > pulses with the disk removed and the spindle turning. I haven't been
> > able to get a reliable reproduction of the fault, so I will be busy with
> > trouble shooting for a while.
> Check the grounding carefully.  The best is to not have the
> encoder grounded to the machine frame, but grounded through the
> board reading the encoder signals.  Shielding of the encoder
> cables is almost always required.  Check the lay of probable
> interference sources like motor-VFD cables and any other that
> might have 120 or 240 VAC on them.
>
> Jon



in my hitachi seiki manual, it says that twisted pair wire should be used
for the encoders.  not sure if this would help eliminate noise in your
situation or not.
also what about an inductor or capacitor at the encoder in its power line to
help smooth any noise introduced there?

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Re: [Emc-users] oversize transformer question

[Jim Coleman]

i was thinking the light bulb idea when i read it, i remember reading an
article on a homebuilt 1000 watt audio amp, he did that because of the
inrush current tripping a breaker.  i was just wondering how many bulbs in
parallel it would take to handle the current without blowing instantly?
thinking of standard 100 watt incandescents.

off topic, i bet that would look like a scene from an old horror movie when
he turns it on haha.
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Re: [Emc-users] Off Topic, Broaching

[Jim Coleman]

my hitachi mill uses a taper lock type system that works kindof like
compression fittings for steel tubing.  the end pieces squeeze on little
rings that apparently do the holding.
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Re: [Emc-users] Off Topic, DC Spindle Motor

[Jim Coleman]

>
> How close would a golf cart controller be?



aren't golf carts like 4 batteries?  wouldn't that be only 48 volts or so?
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Re: [Emc-users] DRO with VFD-acurite scales-index

[Jim Coleman]

anyone happen to know anything about sony magnescale DROs?  would it be
possible to interface the scales on my lathe to emc to work as a dro?  one
of the axis on the sony are dead.

On Dec 15, 2007 8:49 PM, Dave Engvall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> This may get  you started:
>
> http://www.acu-rite.com/index.cfm?PageID=56ABA3A7-F620-11D4-
> BC6400A0CC271CB6
>
>  From there you can get the details on which scale you have.
> Good luck.
>
> Dave
> On Dec 15, 2007, at 5:16 PM, Chris Morley wrote:
>
> >
> > Some acu-rite scales have index pulses,some have the wire and no
> > pulse, some use an 'absolute' distance coded marks so when u move
> > maybe and inch or so it will know exactly where it is (after the
> > dro/controller evaluates with an algorithm)  . Heidenhain more
> > commonly has two indexes or the distances coded marks . Anilam
> > sometimes have index pulses. What model and plug style do u have?
> > ( round or D9). if u include the serial# of reader and scale I
> > might be able to look it up.
> >
> >
> > Chris Morley
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:02:18 -0800
> >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] DRO with VFD
> >>
> >> On Sat, 2007-12-15 at 10:32 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 2007-12-14 at 23:29 -0500, Stephen Wille Padnos wrote:
>  Hi Kirk
> 
>  Your fast period is way too fast to do a PPMC read/write.
> 
>  The PPMC update is meant to run in the servo thread, which might
>  be 1-2
>  KHz.  The read function has to write several control bytes to the
>  parport, then read 12 bytes for the 4 encoder registers, plus other
>  data.  That will take you well beyond the 20 us base period in
>  the HAL file.
> 
>  - Steve
> >>>
> >>> Steve - I put a gold star by your name. The Bridgeport VCP is usable
> >>> now. I posted the latest files:
> >>>
> >>> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/bridgeport/pyvcp-dro2-
> >>> bp2.hal
> >>> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/bridgeport/pyvcp-dro2-
> >>> bp2.hal
> >>>
> >>> I still have the  problem but spinbox is working. I found
> >>> that if I click the data entry box, from that point on, the up down
> >>> arrows ramp the numbers. It's pretty handy.
> >>>
> >>> The X axis encoder polarity happened to be wrong, so I changed the
> >>> ppmc.0.encoder.00.scale to a negative value, but that didn't fix
> >>> it. I
> >>> could switch the A and B wires, but I thought the encoder scale
> >>> should
> >>> have. I need to look into this a little more.
> >>
> >> Opps. I entered the encoder scale settings twice.
> >>
> >>> For anyone wanting to play with pyVCP, I found these pages helpful:
> >>>
> >>> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal_vcp.html
> >>> http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/tkinter-
> >>> reference.htm
> >>> http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/XUL:hbox
> >>> http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/XUL_Tutorial:The_Box_Model
> >>>
> >>> I haven't been able to get a few things like the flex option to work
> >>> yet, so I am wondering if pyVCP has a full implementation of XUL or
> >>> Tkinter.
> >>
> >> From:
> >> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal_vcp.html#r1_5_3
> >>
> >> It says:
> >> "
> >> Inside a Hbox, you can use the ,  anchor=""/>, and tags to choose
> >> how items in the
> >> box behave when the window is resized. For details of how fill,
> >> anchor,
> >> and expand behave, refer to the Tk pack manual page, pack(3tk). By
> >> default, fill='y', anchor='center', expand='yes'.
> >> "
> >>
> >> It's amazing what ends up in the documentation.
> >>
> >>> It sure is fun to be able to customize the display, but I guess I
> >>> need
> >>> to get some real work done.
> >>>
> >>> (I have an "extra" wire on my Accurite linear scales, does anyone
> >>> know
> >>> if linear scales normally have an index?)
> >>
> >> --
> >> Kirk Wallace (California, USA
> >> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
> >> Hardinge HNC lathe,
> >> Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now,
> >> Zubal lathe conversion pending)
> >>
> >>
> >> -
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Re: [Emc-users] DRO with VFD-acurite scales-index

[Jim Coleman]

the part that concerned me was the name of the DRO, magnetron.  wasnt sure
if it used magnetics as opposed to the optical, so i dont know if it would
be ttl or some analog signal or what.  and my oscilloscope was through a
flood and i dont even know if it still works, i havnt even cleaned all of
the mud and gunk out of it caus im afraid of how it'll look in there.  and
without a scope to use, i dont really know how i should start tryin to
figure it out.


On Dec 15, 2007 11:00 PM, Chris Morley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> Though I am not sure about sony scales, if it produces TTL compatible,
> square edged pulses in quadrature  then yes. I remember seeing an ebay ad
> for scales that were compatible with sony's dro (and others) and they were
> TTL square edged pulses, so probably they would work. If the scales use
> current or voltage sin wave signals (such as some heidenhain , older
> acu-rite with d9 plugs and others) or some other scheme then a conversion
> 'blackbox' is needed. Then nice thing about the sin wave signals is that the
> conversion 'blackbox' can multiply the resolution by factors such as
> x1,x5,x10,x25 etc. I tried to find good info on sony scales a while back and
> had little success- I don't own any so I didn't try that hard...
> 
> > Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 21:03:22 -0500
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] DRO with VFD-acurite scales-index
> >
> > anyone happen to know anything about sony magnescale DROs?  would it be
> possible to interface the scales on my lathe to emc to work as a dro?  one
> of the axis on the sony are dead.
> >
> > On Dec 15, 2007 8:49 PM, Dave Engvall < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > This may get  you started:
> >
> > http://www.acu-rite.com/index.cfm?PageID=56ABA3A7-F620-11D4-
> > BC6400A0CC271CB6
> >
> >  From there you can get the details on which scale you have.
> > Good luck.
> >
> > Dave
> > On Dec 15, 2007, at 5:16 PM, Chris Morley wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Some acu-rite scales have index pulses,some have the wire and no
> >> pulse, some use an 'absolute' distance coded marks so when u move
> >> maybe and inch or so it will know exactly where it is (after the
> >> dro/controller evaluates with an algorithm)  . Heidenhain more
> >> commonly has two indexes or the distances coded marks . Anilam
> >> sometimes have index pulses. What model and plug style do u have?
> >> ( round or D9). if u include the serial# of reader and scale I
> >> might be able to look it up.
> >>
> >>
> >> Chris Morley
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:02:18 -0800
> >>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] DRO with VFD
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, 2007-12-15 at 10:32 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
>  On Fri, 2007-12-14 at 23:29 -0500, Stephen Wille Padnos wrote:
> > Hi Kirk
> >
> > Your fast period is way too fast to do a PPMC read/write.
> >
> > The PPMC update is meant to run in the servo thread, which might
> > be 1-2
> > KHz.  The read function has to write several control bytes to the
> > parport, then read 12 bytes for the 4 encoder registers, plus other
> > data.  That will take you well beyond the 20 us base period in
> > the HAL file.
> >
> > - Steve
> 
>  Steve - I put a gold star by your name. The Bridgeport VCP is usable
>  now. I posted the latest files:
> 
>  http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/bridgeport/pyvcp-dro2-
>  bp2.hal
>  http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/bridgeport/pyvcp-dro2-
>  bp2.hal
> 
>  I still have the  problem but spinbox is working. I found
>  that if I click the data entry box, from that point on, the up down
>  arrows ramp the numbers. It's pretty handy.
> 
>  The X axis encoder polarity happened to be wrong, so I changed the
>  ppmc.0.encoder.00.scale to a negative value, but that didn't fix
>  it. I
>  could switch the A and B wires, but I thought the encoder scale
>  should
>  have. I need to look into this a little more.
> >>>
> >>> Opps. I entered the encoder scale settings twice.
> >>>
>  For anyone wanting to play with pyVCP, I found these pages helpful:
> 
>  http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal_vcp.html
>  http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/tkinter-
>  reference.htm
>  http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/XUL:hbox
>  http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/XUL_Tutorial:The_Box_Model
> 
>  I haven't been able to get a few things like the flex option to work
>  yet, so I am wondering if pyVCP has a full implementation of XUL or
>  Tkinter.
> >>>
> >>> From:
> >>> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal_vcp.html#r1_5_3
> >>>
> >>> It says:
> >>> "
> >>> Inside a Hbox, you can use the ,  anchor=""/>, and tags to choose
> >>> how items in the
> >>> box 

Re: [Emc-users] DRO with VFD-acurite scales-index

[Jim Coleman]

correction on myself...  magnescale, not magnetron.  guess the morning
caffeine hasnt kicked in yet.

On Dec 16, 2007 7:51 AM, Jim Coleman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> the part that concerned me was the name of the DRO, magnetron.  wasnt sure
> if it used magnetics as opposed to the optical, so i dont know if it would
> be ttl or some analog signal or what.  and my oscilloscope was through a
> flood and i dont even know if it still works, i havnt even cleaned all of
> the mud and gunk out of it caus im afraid of how it'll look in there.  and
> without a scope to use, i dont really know how i should start tryin to
> figure it out.
>
>
>
> On Dec 15, 2007 11:00 PM, Chris Morley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > Though I am not sure about sony scales, if it produces TTL compatible,
> > square edged pulses in quadrature  then yes. I remember seeing an ebay ad
> > for scales that were compatible with sony's dro (and others) and they were
> > TTL square edged pulses, so probably they would work. If the scales use
> > current or voltage sin wave signals (such as some heidenhain , older
> > acu-rite with d9 plugs and others) or some other scheme then a conversion
> > 'blackbox' is needed. Then nice thing about the sin wave signals is that the
> > conversion 'blackbox' can multiply the resolution by factors such as
> > x1,x5,x10,x25 etc. I tried to find good info on sony scales a while back and
> > had little success- I don't own any so I didn't try that hard...
> > 
> > > Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 21:03:22 -0500
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] DRO with VFD-acurite scales-index
> > >
> > > anyone happen to know anything about sony magnescale DROs?  would it
> > be possible to interface the scales on my lathe to emc to work as a dro?
> >  one of the axis on the sony are dead.
> > >
> > > On Dec 15, 2007 8:49 PM, Dave Engvall < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > This may get  you started:
> > >
> > > http://www.acu-rite.com/index.cfm?PageID=56ABA3A7-F620-11D4-
> > > BC6400A0CC271CB6
> > >
> > >  From there you can get the details on which scale you have.
> > > Good luck.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > > On Dec 15, 2007, at 5:16 PM, Chris Morley wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Some acu-rite scales have index pulses,some have the wire and no
> > >> pulse, some use an 'absolute' distance coded marks so when u move
> > >> maybe and inch or so it will know exactly where it is (after the
> > >> dro/controller evaluates with an algorithm)  . Heidenhain more
> > >> commonly has two indexes or the distances coded marks . Anilam
> > >> sometimes have index pulses. What model and plug style do u have?
> > >> ( round or D9). if u include the serial# of reader and scale I
> > >> might be able to look it up.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Chris Morley
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> 
> > >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >>> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 11:02:18 -0800
> > >>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] DRO with VFD
> > >>>
> > >>> On Sat, 2007-12-15 at 10:32 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> > >>>> On Fri, 2007-12-14 at 23:29 -0500, Stephen Wille Padnos wrote:
> > >>>>> Hi Kirk
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Your fast period is way too fast to do a PPMC read/write.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The PPMC update is meant to run in the servo thread, which might
> > >>>>> be 1-2
> > >>>>> KHz.  The read function has to write several control bytes to the
> > >>>>> parport, then read 12 bytes for the 4 encoder registers, plus
> > other
> > >>>>> data.  That will take you well beyond the 20 us base period in
> > >>>>> the HAL file.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> - Steve
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Steve - I put a gold star by your name. The Bridgeport VCP is
> > usable
> > >>>> now. I posted the latest files:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/bridgeport/pyvcp-dro2-
> > >>>> bp

Re: [Emc-users] Parallel DAC

[Jim Coleman]

ive been wondering on how well the parport would work for a pwm based DAC,
i'm interested in getting enough from it to test out and play with my servo
amps and motors and encoders...  and i'll need to hook up the VFD as well
once i get the axis and limit switches and all that fun stuff going, but i
plan on that being with a mesa card.


On Dec 17, 2007 9:25 PM, Kirk Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I would like to build a parallel port DAC board capable of running a
> VFD. My VFD's use 0 to +10 Volts for setting speed, then a Forward and a
> Reverse pin which sink to a Common. My plan so far, includes a pair of
> 74244 buffers, maybe a 7224 8-bit DAC, +10 Volt regulator, +5 Volt
> regulator and a pair of opto-isolators. I looked through the HAL
> components that I could find, but couldn't find one that would convert
> an unsigned 32 to binary, I guess a wsum in reverse. I may need to write
> a new component, but if there is a component I overlooked, please let me
> know.
>
> If there is interest, I would like to make it an open project, maybe
> with a wiki, so that everyone can submit input, then collect
> documentation and orders to have boards made. Wudyathink?
>
> --
> Kirk Wallace (California, USA
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
> Hardinge HNC lathe,
> Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now,
> Zubal lathe conversion pending)
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] ADC into EMC

[Jim Coleman]

arent there digital indicators with a serial connection?  i know ive seen
calipers with it, would figure theyd make indicators too.  i've thought
about this for probing.  not sure how close you could get the plunger to the
arc from the cutter tho.

On Jan 3, 2008 7:33 AM, John Thornton < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 2 Jan 2008 at 6:15, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> What I'm looking at is the arc voltage signal from my plasma cutter.
> It is 300vdc max.
>
> > A simple voltage divider on any inputs greater than 10v will work
> > fine. If you mean voltage divider as a kind of voltage supply
> > regulator then no, don't do it. Most especially ADCs. I also assume
> > you are not talking about sampling audio with this ADC but data
> > acquisition? Audio sampling needs to be done with a real codec IC.
> > Standard ADC's sampling audio are really poor quality due to aliasing
> > artifacts and other issues. The difference between say a burr-brown
> > pcm codec (audio) and the ADC's you mention are *clearly* heard,
> > speaking personally.
>
> My thought was to use a simple resistor circuit to divide the voltage.
> By 5-20k do you mean the total resistance of the circuit? The input
> impedance of the card I would use is <20K
>
> http://web3.automationdirect.com/static/specs/f004ad2.pdf
>
>
>
> > Btw: The impedance of the ADC input can slightly affect the value of
> > the voltage divider. You can find the impedance in the datasheet and
> > adjust your ladder if needed...in most cases the impedance is
> > negligable for most people. Also, lower overall impedance of the
> > dividor will make the ADC input impedance more negligable, but will
> > draw more power. 5-20k is prob suitable.
>
> laser sensors that I've used for work are very accurate and use
> triangulation
> to figure the distance. I'm not sure how the arc would effect the laser.
> It would
> have to be mounted parallel to the cutting head but up above it out of the
> way
> on the Z axis somewhere.
>
> > I am not sure what kind of distance sensing could be done, but I am
> > interested in it too. I think sonic wouldn't be accurate enough. Laser
> > would but I don't know how to do that yet, but sounds awesome. ;)
> > Anything else? I know many people are just using bump probes to do 3d
> > scanning. --- simple and digital.
> >
> > C
>
> A bump probe would work for initial height setting.
>
> Thanks
> John
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] spring loaded engraving tool

[Jim Coleman]

I'm curious how well the compression / extension tap holders would compare.
and isnt the nature of springs to require more force to compress farther?
wouldnt that result in more pressure being applied to the cutter on Z?  or
could it be gravity fed to overcome this?  I wouldnt mind doing some
engraving myself once i get my mill done.

On Jan 4, 2008 8:34 PM, Dean Hedin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> - Original Message -
> From: "William Scalione" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
> > I would suggest that if you plan to engrave metal with text or other
> > fine lines that you
> > try to find a spring loaded floating engraving spindle. They keep the
> > depth of cut at
> > an exact depth for the entire job. Doing letters, a difference of only a
> > few thousandths
> > of an inch in depth of cut, when using a "V" type engraving tool will
> > make the lettering
> > look very bad. You can get a constant depth on a 5000 pound bed mill
> > pretty easily, but
> > on a home made machine, built from aluminum and Ace hardware parts, it's
> > not so easy.
> > I have made a couple of non floating engraving spindles into floating
> > ones pretty easily.
>
> Interesting.  I had never heard of a spring loaded engraving tool.
> I googled this to see what one looks like.
> http://www.2linc.com/engraving_mini.htm
>
> Unfortunately they are pretty exspensive from that place.  However I have
> now decided that I need one of these.
>
> Looks like something I could turn on the lathe but with the telescoping
> portion it might be hard to keep
> the bit runout to a minimum.  They must be made out of ground tool steel.
>
> I would be grateful if you could elaborate on converting  "non floating
> engraving spindles into floating ones"
>
>
> > Also, I used a small laminate router on my machine for about a week
> > before it was totally
> > shot. Problem is it was designed to run for 2 minutes at a time, not an
> > hour or more that
> > will be required when doing engraving jobs. The  bearings get hot and
> > then the plastic
> > that holds them get soft. Now you have a piece of crap spindle with an
> > 1/8 inch end play
> > which is not suitable for engraving fine lines, much less anything else.
>
> I would agree with the above. But I have had pretty good results with the
> first generation Rotozips.
> They seem to have a really good cooling design and decent sized bearings.
>  I
> have run them for up to
> an hour without trouble.
>
> Although I have from time to time considered turing a new housing out of
> some aluminum tubing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] spring loaded engraving tool

[Jim Coleman]

On Jan 5, 2008 1:20 PM, John Thornton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> How do you keep the nose cone from marking up the work?
>

i was wondering the same thing.  at a few k rpm, seems like anything would
leave some nasties, unless the coolant keeps everything lubricated enough to
just slide over it happily?
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Re: [Emc-users] Cabin Fever presentation

[Jim Coleman]

what about just audio, caus with audio of your speakin and the slides, we
should be able to get a good portion of the experience.

On Jan 15, 2008 8:04 PM, Ed Nisley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > with the 'patter' would be golden.
>
> I briefly considered hitching a Webcam+mic to my laptop, the
> one running the presentation, and recording on the fly.
>
> Then I came to my senses.
>
> If anybody else will be there with audio or video recording
> gear, we'll go for it... but I'll have enough to do, what
> with  simultaneously standing up -and- talking!
>
> --
> Ed
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Pick-n-Place

[Jim Coleman]

I've been real curious about how pick and place machines work, and would
like to eventually build or buy one.  I'll be eagerly looking forward to
your vid, suprising as it is now that i look back at it ive never seen one.

On Jan 22, 2008 11:56 AM, Jon Elson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Len Shelton wrote:
> >
> > In Central Illinois, about 30 minutes south of Galesburg, actually. I
> > mention Galesburg because that is where the CNC Workshop is held. So if
> > anyone wants to swing by and watch it run while they are in town for the
> > Workshop, let me know.
> >
> Hey!  I'd definitely like to do that, maybe show you some of the
> boards I do, and compare notes.  If you ever get down to St.
> Louis, I can show off my machine.
> > Concerning the other machines, I won't be doing anything with them until
> it
> > warms up. And one may have a hard time finding feeders for them. I
> believe
> > that MannCorp is what used to be Mamiya, but I cannot confirm that. I
> have
> > seen some MannCorp feeders that look from a distance like these, but I
> > cannot confirm that yet either.
> Manncorp just resells a variety of gear.  I'm not sure if they
> make anything at all, but they do recondition machines.  So,
> they may have sold a Mamiya series at one time (Superhand?).
>
> Jon
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Running on a G4 MAc (new world)

[Jim Coleman]

if i was in the situation i'd try to ebay the mac and use the money to buy
parts to either rebuild the old PC or build a new one.  I havnt looked
lately, but macs seem to retain value, more than PCs at least.  i guess to
me it would seem easier to fix the old pc than to compile emc to run on a
mac, but im more of a hardware person.

On Feb 3, 2008 12:35 AM, Jason Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi all,
>my i386 class emc pc just died :(
> as luck would have it, I was given recently an old G4 Mac. is it posible
> to run EMC on a ppc32?
> any pointers ?
> thanks
> Jason
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Stepper torque measurement article

[Jim Coleman]

what about a spring coupler and 2 encoders?  and do current measurements
while exerting known levels of torque, make a chart so you know how much
current = how much torque, use current monitoring...  isolated ADC across
shunt resistors for each phase of each motor be it AC or DC.  It'd jsut be
quite a few inputs to watch, and might end up being not the fastest of all.
i know from watching the load meter on the mills at work that you can easily
see a change in the trend when the tool's wearing.  so if you could script
it to alarm when it's increased by X% from an average of the first number of
runs on that tool.  I know the new fadal's my work has does have spindle
load limits for you can set for each tool...

Sorry if this has been a long ramble, i guess i'm getting all i can out of
'computer time' before i have to go do the dishes  hehe...

On Feb 11, 2008 2:36 PM, Geoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tuesday 12 February 2008 04:55, W. Jacobs wrote:
> > aram,
> > It would be easier to measure current to the motor as this would be what
> > creates the torque.  Current measurement is easy.
> > If you want to truly measure the torque, it is done either with a strain
> > gauge on the shaft or with a spring coupled drive and measure the
> > deflection of the spring.  Either way, you need a pair of slip rings to
> > get the information to the outside world.  These are noisy and will be
> > hard to use.
> >
> > bill
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > Hi
> > > Can you measure torque on AC servo motor?
> >
> >
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>  Hi Guys,
>another way of measuring torque involves 2 toothed rings and hall
> effect
> pick-ups. Ensure that the rings are rigidly fixed to the shaft and you
> will
> find that you will get a varying phase difference between the output of
> your
> two pick-ups as the shaft twists under torque loading. No noisy slip
> rings :-) .
>
> Cheers, Geoff.
>
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[Emc-users] step type... which one?

[Jim Coleman]

I've got 3 little steppers that i want to use, they're 5 wire and i believe
bipolar?  if anyone knows where to find datasheets for teac 14769070-30
motors from old 5 1/4 floppy drives, i'd sure like to get a copy.  i know
the motor is tiny, i'm only using it for a toy, might push a table around
with laser or maybe a sharpie, something of that nature.

I figure it'll be easy to build a simple little set of switching transistors
to run the motors from the parport output, using step type...  6?  maybe?
im not doing so well interpreting the figures in the integrators manual.

after i get that set up, I'll need to build somethin to do the switching
from the parport.  I really need to do some reading on using transistors, i
got into them slightly years back, and everything i did have sunk in has
floated away.  I dont think these motors will draw much current, they're
pretty small.

I figure this little project will be a good experience before i'm diving
into a mesa m5i20 with my hitachi seiki VMC, with 1.3 and 2.8KW servos and a
7.5hp spindle
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Re: [Emc-users] step type... which one?

[Jim Coleman]

the motors wont even be on the machine till everything is running right.  I
run machines this size all day at work, so im pretty familiar with what i
can and can't do with them.  all of the original contactors or relays or
whatever you want to call them are still in place in the control cabinet,
and i will use it all, no worries there.

with these motors im not looking for step direction, i want to use stepgen
to switch the 4 coils, thats why I'll use a higher step mode, like 5 or 6.
I was thinkin about just usin NPN transistors from the parport to switch the
coils.  if i end up killin the parport by not usin optoisolators, big whoop
ill use a different computer to play with.  i will use the diodes to keep
rid of the inductance problems.  and it being a headache; its a hobby, so im
not in any massive hurry or anything and it keeps me entertained in the time
while the wife's at work (FREEE!! time) and it might even make some smoke
and get rid of some of these old computers i couldnt turn down.

BTW, what kinda cutters you usin / breakin?  3/4 inch end mills can plow
through quite a bit. :-D

On Tue, Feb 19, 2008 at 1:16 AM, Rob Jansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Jim Coleman wrote:
> > I've got 3 little steppers that i want to use, they're 5 wire and i
> > believe bipolar?  if anyone knows where to find datasheets for teac
> > 14769070-30 motors from old 5 1/4 floppy drives, i'd sure like to get
> > a copy.  i know the motor is tiny, i'm only using it for a toy, might
> > push a table around with laser or maybe a sharpie, something of that
> > nature.
> >
> > I figure it'll be easy to build a simple little set of switching
> > transistors to run the motors from the parport output, using step
> > type...  6?  maybe?  im not doing so well interpreting the figures in
> > the integrators manual.
> Controlling a 5 wire type stepper motor is fairly easy, there is one
> common and 4 coils. You'll have to figure out what the common is,
> something you can easily do with an ohm meter (mayby this helps:
> http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~ih/doc/stepper/others/example2/<http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/%7Eih/doc/stepper/others/example2/>
> )
> You could something like the schematics as shown in the two-wire
> connection diagram found at this page:
> http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~ih/doc/stepper/control2/connect.html<http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/%7Eih/doc/stepper/control2/connect.html>but
>  you
> will need to add some logic to do the conversion of the coil exitation
> sequence to step/direction signals. Google around will give a vast
> amount of links with stepper motor controllers.
>
> Just make sure you start at low voltage/current settings since these
> small motors are not meant for higher currents (it would be nice if you
> still have the original controller board of the drive to check the
> current).
>
> > after i get that set up, I'll need to build somethin to do the
> > switching from the parport.  I really need to do some reading on using
> > transistors, i got into them slightly years back, and everything i did
> > have sunk in has floated away.  I dont think these motors will draw
> > much current, they're pretty small.
> Just make sure you have protection diodes installed. When you remove the
> power of a coil you'll get a voltage spike on it's terminals and even
> with smaller motors these may damage your transistors.
> When selecting transistors you could use simple MOS-FETs. The IRF 7403
> (http://chipdig.com/datasheets/parts/datasheet/232/IRF7403.php) is an
> SMD component, but most pins can be soldered together. I use these
> little thingies to control high power LEDs at 350 mA, use the simple
> schematics as given in figure 10a in the datasheet - just make sure you
> install an extra diode accros the D-S connection, should be a schottky
> diode like a 1N5819
>
> But it may be a lot easier to just buy a set of motors with controllers.
> May save you a lot of head aches and damaged components.
> > I figure this little project will be a good experience before i'm
> > diving into a mesa m5i20 with my hitachi seiki VMC, with 1.3 and 2.8KW
> > servos and a 7.5hp spindle
> Yes indeed, that project is a little too powerfull to be used for newbies.
> I'm a newbie too - in CNC machining that is, I'm an electronics/computer
> engineer for about 20 years by now - and mistakes do happen.
> My machine has 250 and 500 W stepper motors and a 2 kW spnidle and I
> make sure I stay close to the E-stop button (an external E-stop, the ESC
> key from Axis is not enough as you can read in another thread) and out
> of range of the spindle motor.
>
> When starting up your big machine for the first time, use a virtual
&g

Re: [Emc-users] step type... which one?

[Jim Coleman]

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 6:27 AM, Stephen Wille Padnos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Rob Jansen wrote:
>
> [snip]
> He's saying that he wants to run directly from the parallel port by
> directly driving four transistors with four parport outputs per motor.


bingo!

>
>
> >You do have motor drivers? There is no way you can control them directly
> >from the parport.
> >
> >
> Actually, you can.  I didn't look at the step types, but there are two
> types of direct 4-phase drive: full-stepping and half-stepping.


im pretty sure that 6 is full stepping, and 7 is half stepping.  my choice
to skip the optoisolators is because they cost money, and would take either
an order online or me hoping my hiney off that radioshack could be of any
use there and actually have one.  I guess i could always salvage some from
old networking equipment, far as i know all those ports are optoisolated.
By the looks of it, i could have done without asking here.  just read things
a few times and do some more googlin, and i think im gettin it figgered
out.  but It'd still be nice to hear from someone running one of these modes
and how they're doing it.
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Re: [Emc-users] home-mad CNC machine project.

[Jim Coleman]

If you're going for the cheap, and dont need to really cut anything more
than wax or foam, i would think some of these motors could do nicely for
less than $10 each.
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category/400600/Stepper_Motors.html

I think we could provide some better direction if we know exactly what
you're going for.  you tryin to get your toes wet with cnc stuff, or are you
wanting to produce parts?  what tools / supplies / resources do you have
available?  if you happen to have access to say a school or employer's
machines, that could be very handy in building your machine.  im assuming
you have at least bsic electronics skills if you're wanting to build those
stepper drives.

I've seen that instructables, and thought about trying something like that
but decided I'd come up with my own design using mostly MDF.

On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 8:28 PM, Dean Hedin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  Sean,
>
> If your on a budget then go with one of the Allegro chipset based
> controllers (Hobbycnc etc..)
>
> Try to get motors that are rated at 2.5-3 amps (about the max
> that an Allegro chip can drive) and are rated around 3-5 volts.
> Also, make sure you run the highest voltage the controller can handle
> (usually around 36-42volts with an Allegro base controller).
> These means hunting down a good 30VAC 10 amp transformer.
>
> Don't waste your time or money with anything that is not a constant
> current, pwm type controller.
> There are schematics for Allegro based controllers to be found on the web
> if you want to roll your own.
>
> If you don't mind spending a bit more then go with the Geckos.  You won't
> regret it.
>
>
>
> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> *To:* emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> *Sent:* Friday, February 29, 2008 10:59 PM
> *Subject:* [Emc-users] home-mad CNC machine project.
>
> I was wondering if anyone has ever tried a do-it-yourself CNC project like
> this.
> http://www.instructables.com/id/Easy-to-build-CNC-Mill-Stepper-Motor-and-Driver-ci/and
>  this
> http://www.instructables.com/id/Easy-to-Build-Desk-Top-3-Axis-CNC-Milling-Machine/.
>  If so, any pointers or words of knowledge before I dive in?
> Also, I'm still looking for some stepper motors to use if anyone has a
> good source..  I'm a college student, so I'm obviously broke and starving.
> So, inexpensive would be good.  Thanks guys.
>
> Sean
>
>
> -
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Marketing

[Jim Coleman]

kirk, one of my intended markets to persue will be custom automotive parts.
look at how simple these "underdrive" pulleys that all the import kids are
buyin up.  $100 plus for half an hour of work on manual machines, seems like
a decent turnout to me.  If you can make parts for hobbyist/diy machines and
sell them on places like cnczone or similar (do they even have classifieds?
guess im not too familiar with that place) you might be able to get some
business. I really have no idea where to find production level work, but one
thing you could consider as a side service could be anodizing aluminum.
from googling a bit, it seems it wouldnt be too hard to set up and do.  I'm
planning on using my rotary phase converter to turn a 90 amp alternator from
a junked hyundai, should be plenty of current for small batches.


I'm definately looking forward to the suggestions you get.


On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 6:01 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi
> Yes I am interesting to buy one similar machine. Simple build frame. Lead
> screw or ball screw optional. Slade can be optional also, same as on ebay
> or round bar with ball bearing slide. It is hard to describe machine in
> general, when machine ready and have real price than is easy to talk.
> I want to buy one that machine and put my motors on it. I want to have
> bridge type and not gantry type. Let me know if you can do building.
>
> Concerning tax write-off on new machine. Buying new machine can and will
> ruin small or big business. Today business may be up, slow or down for a
> while. How you can pay any payments to bank that loan a money at all
> In this situation even write-off will not help.
> In the case when machine purchased as a scrap metal for $ 2000. and
> retrofitted than when business slow or down nobody will demand payments
> from you  and you have chance to establish sustainable business.
> Today money crunch credit crunch will make those loans for machine more
> and more expensive.
>
> Thanks
> Aram
>
> > On Sat, 2008-03-01 at 12:22 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> Hi Kirk
> >>
> >> I can't say about retrofitting machine but I know whole very good –
> >> large
> >> mill sold for scrap metal because control got bad and minor mechanical
> >> problem.
> >> When ask how much for retrofit answer – better to buy new machine
> >> $50-250K
> >> Here is the money. Need open your own shop and retrofit machine and it
> >> is
> >> not simple.
> >
> > I presently have a working EMC CNC mill and lathe, so for my situation,
> > that is not a problem. For me retrofitting was easily the way to go
> > because I could do all the work. Now if I had a pile of money to invest,
> > I suppose buying a new machine, making loan payments and using tax
> > write-off's would be better as a whole.
> >
> >> Another ides, I want to buy small 12 by 12 inches frame of bridge type
> >> machine to install my motor on. Sample on e-bay machine for $770.0 I
> >> search on ebay CNC  MILL an on page 4 or so picture of machine and
> price
> >> $770. Custom Built CNC
> >>  Router Mill Engraver
> >>
> >>  Very simple machine.
> >>  I want to ask if you or someone that you know that can build similar
> >> type
> >> simple machine?
> >
> > Yes. I have the capability to make this type of CNC machine.
> >
> >> I think there are market for not expensive small demo machine
> >>
> >>  Thanks
> >> Aram
> >
> > I am a little unclear as to what you want to do. Do you want to be able
> > to manufacture or market inexpensive CNC machines? Do you want to buy a
> > CNC machine for yourself, or have someone make a custom machine or
> > parts?
> >
> > I agree that there seems to be increasing interest all types of CNC
> > machinery.
> > --
> > Kirk Wallace (California, USA
> > http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
> > Hardinge HNC lathe,
> > Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now,
> > Zubal lathe conversion pending)
> >
> >
> >
> -
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> >
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] restart in the middle of a program

[Jim Coleman]

I never realised this was something EMC had trouble with.  guess there'll be
alot of stuff I'll find out after i get a machine actually running with it.

At work, we number each section of the program that has each tool, N1 for
t1, N2, etc...  then if we have a tool break or whatever we go to that N and
start from there. then it goes over the G43, 54, M03, etc for that tool.

On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 5:57 PM, Gene Heskett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> On Wednesday 05 March 2008, Stuart Stevenson wrote:
> >Gentlemen,
> >Does anyone have a procedure for starting (correctly) in the
> >middle of a program?
> >thanks
> >Stuart
>
> About the only way I've been able to bypass steps that have already been
> done,
> is to set 2 identical vars for the starting location at the top of the
> program, with one set at 0.00 and the other commented out.  Then if I
> break a
> bit or have some other problem that requires the resetting of the 0.00
> points, I'll reset those and re-home them, then switch vars by setting the
> second of to the depth I had achieved, and comment out the 0.00 starter
> setting.  Works great for drilling big holes and such with a 1/4 end mill.
>
> >-
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>
>
> --
> Cheers, Gene
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> The hatred of relatives is the most violent.
>-- Tacitus (c.55 - c.117)
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Singular realtime delay error

[Jim Coleman]

could it be fsb / memory and the like are the limiting factor, and not the
CPU speed?  i've been curious how overclocking would affect the speeds
attainable.  i've only ran emc on a slightly overclocked athlon XP
barton2500 system, i might have to get around to doing some more testing,
huh.

On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 12:21 AM, Gene Heskett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> On Monday 03 March 2008, Ed Nisley wrote:
> >Gene Heskett wrote:
> >> When starting emc on its own screen, I
> >> do get a realtime error, just one that never repeats.
> >
> >That just cropped up here after I updated to 2.2.3. There's
> >one realtime error when Axis starts up, then nothing else.
> >I run it either locally or through rdc, with the same
> >results.
>
> 2.2.3, AIUI, does its own latency test at startup, and apparently seems to
> detect a lag of some kind because something related to the video isn't
> quite
> ready at the time it is getting everything initialized.  I've been
> clearing
> it and otherwise ignoring it.  Its possible that the test could be moved
> someplace else so it was done after all the initial screen redraws have
> been
> done.  But my coding expertise is fading as the years pile up, 73 of them
> now
> and I never was up to the scale of a 32 bit linux framework, I did all of
> mine on 8 & 16 bit stuff 20 years ago, usually in assembly or even
> entering
> hex by hand in a monitor program.  1802/z80(spit)/and 6x09 stuff.
>
> >The info in dmesg looks like this:
> >
> >[  187.772175] I-pipe: Domain RTAI registered.
> >[  187.772183] RTAI[hal]:  mounted over
> >IPIPE-NOTHREADS 1.3-00.
> >[  187.772186] RTAI[hal]: compiled with gcc version 4.0.3
> >(Ubuntu 4.0.3-1ubuntu5).
> >[  187.772192] RTAI[hal]: mounted (IPIPE-NOTHREADS,
> >IMMEDIATE (INTERNAL IRQs VECTORED), ISOL_CPUS_MASK: 0).
> >[  187.772194] PIPELINE layers:
> >[  187.772197] f8bca780 9ac15d93 RTAI 200
> >[  187.772200] c02d1680 0 Linux 100
> >[  187.791834] RTAI[malloc]: vmalloced extent f8c3e000, size
> >2097152.
> >[  187.791902] RTAI[malloc]: loaded (global heap
> >size=2097152 bytes).
> >[  187.793705] RTAI[sched_lxrt]: loaded (IMMEDIATE, UP,
> >USER/KERNEL SPACE ).
> >[  187.793716] RTAI[sched_lxrt]: hard timer type/freq =
> >8254-PIT/1193180(Hz); default timing mode is periodic;
> >linear ordering of timed lists.
> >[  187.793729] RTAI[sched_lxrt]: Linux timer freq = 1000
> >(Hz), CPU freq = 2392319000 hz.
> >[  187.793732] RTAI[sched_lxrt]: timer setup = 2010 ns,
> >resched latency = 2689 ns.
>
> Humm, lemme see what I'm getting for this, crazy but I get identical
> timings,
> but my cpu is a gigahertz slower.
>
>
> >[  187.843547] RTAI[math]: loaded.
> >[  188.027891] config string '0xecf8'
> >[  190.667837] RTAPI: ERROR: Unexpected realtime delay on
> >task 1
> >
> >Running the latency tests for an hour didn't turn anything
> >up, so it looks like a startup glitch.
> >
> >Suggestions?
>
> Ignore it till 2.2.4 maybe?
>
> --
> Cheers, Gene
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Hardware, n.:
>The parts of a computer system that can be kicked.
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Powerdex Tool Changers

[Jim Coleman]

what about sliding a pin into the turret when its in place to lock it? then
no lifting is needed, just rotate about it's axis and lock.  maybe pins
coming in from the sides in multiple locations to help rigidity?  a
mechanism similar to the self centering thing on tap wrenches, the outward
spiral type guide...  then you rotate that ring to engage the pins...  taper
the entrance to the pin holes on the turret to allow it to pull into place
if it's indexing isnt the greatest.  I would try to rough out a quick
drawing to try to help depict my thoughts but i guess i dont have any cad
installed on this computer, so i hope you're able to visualize what im
trying to describe.  it actually looks kinda purdy inside my head, assuming
the mechanism would actually work.

on a side note...  when you huys see HAL, do you think of it as 3 letters,
like LED or SUV, or d oyou think of it as a single word, like the name...
kinda like shallow Hal?  noticed you referred to it as "an HAL module"  and
i usually think "a HAL module" which would imply it's being said as if it
were a name.  Not like it really matters, just the thoughts churning in my
head

Jim



On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 7:03 PM, Kirk Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> On Fri, 2008-03-07 at 17:05 -0500, Dave Keeton wrote:
> > If it is like a Barrafaldi or a Duplomatic I can help..I have
> installed
> > both of these...It looks alot like them and I would assume they use
> the
> > same kind of encoder. Reading the encoder is fairly easy using ladder,
> If
> > you happen to have FAPT Ladder III editing software I can send you what
> I
> > wrote for this. I installed a Duplomatic turret on a Fanuc 21i TB
> controlled
> > lathe about 6 months ago. Alot of these turrets are built and operate
> pretty
> > much the same. I can get you the time and operation sequence if you need
> it.
> > Timing on these turrets is critical. Control (including propagation
> delay)
> > should be very accurate to +- 10ms or it will mis-index. What questions
> do
> > you have?
>
> I have my Hardinge HNC turret working through an HAL module. Part of
> what makes EMC and HAL so cool is that it allows someone with my skills
> to make it work.
>
> I am looking for general design examples, in order to try to come up
> with a design for lathe tool changers for Sherline and bench-top class
> machines. The issues that are bothering me now are how to stop the
> turret in eight positions, with high accuracy and rigidity. The Hardinge
> accomplishes this by having just one broad and short zero clearance
> interface between the movable turret table and the carriage. Plus a
> pneumatic piston which clamps evenly across the table. I won't be using
> pneumatics, so I can't utilize the Hardinge design for clamping. And the
> other examples I have seen don't have the two direction motion (rise
> rotate, park) of the Hardinge, suggesting a different internal design
> altogether.
>
> Checking the Barufaldi and Duplomatic links:
> http://www.baruffaldi.it/eng/interne/prodotti/macchine_utensili/index.html
> http://www.duplomatic.com/duplomatic/auto/uk/2/frame2.html
> reminded me that I need to worry about live tooling too. ;)
>
> --
> Kirk Wallace (California, USA
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
> Hardinge HNC lathe,
> Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now,
> Zubal lathe conversion pending)
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] newb question: multiple cnc program over multiple *.ngc files

[Jim Coleman]

I'm pretty sure it's reffered to as O words, my understanding is that it
should open a program and run it within a program, but ive never done it in
EMC.

On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 1:33 AM, rtwas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> In the "Language Overview" section of the manual:
>
>
> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/gcode_main.html#cha:Language-Overview
>
> I'm seeing this line:
>
> "A single program may be in a single file, or a program may be spread
> across several files.".
>
> However the only way I can see to make use of g-code over multiple files
> is by using "m100-m199"
> (user defined commands):
>
> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/gcode_main.html#sec:M100-to-M199:
>
>
> Is this the only way to spread g-code over multiple files (and use them)?
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Robert W.
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Large Retrofit Advice

[Jim Coleman]

I have a hitachi-seiki vmc that i will be retrofitting, and I am planning on
using the mesa electronics M5i20 PCI card.  see http://www.mesanet.com/ .

On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 6:59 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> hi Tony,
>
> we are releasing a new motenc board that will provide servo and stepper
> controls.  the io are similar to motencLite with opto22 style connectors.
> In addition, we are also planning fieldbus I/O support (most likely
> devicenet) that will extend the i/o points to accomodate large mills.  the
> fieldbus I/O come in a variety of ac/dc/relay contacts. so you don't need to
> use opto22 style i/o boards.
>
> Abdul Rafiq
> www.VitalSystem.com
>
>
>
> - Original Message 
> From: Tony Bussan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 10:16:02 AM
> Subject: [Emc-users] Large Retrofit Advice
>
> I am hoping that I can get some advice from those of you that have done
> large scale retrofits of bigger machines.  We have a Cincinnati Millicron
> with tool changer that we are retrofitting with EMC2.
>
> What motion control cards have you had good success with?  Right now I am
> leaning toward the Motenc-lite.
>
> How are you handling the 5/24 volt transition between computer and
> machine?
> Are the Motenc breakout boards good enough or is OPTO22 the only way to
> go?
>
> How are you handling the massive number of I/O?  I have something like 116
> in and 38 out digital.  I don't think I want to use parports.  Is there a
> generic large digital I/O PCI board I am not finding?
>
> Has anyone done much modification to AXIS to make it more compatible with
> existing physical control panels?  Removing duplicate buttons and sliders
> from AXIS, etc.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Tony Bussan
>
>
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[Emc-users] Audio hardware as EMC output?

[Jim Coleman]

I've been playing with using an audio amplifier with a tone generator to
make a low power VFD, and have been wondering what it would take to build a
HAL module to produce simple audio waveforms.  After I got to thinking, it
seems that audio hardware could probably do a higher frequency PWM than the
parport can, too.  I'm just not sure how fast of a response could be had,
although playing music and the like is constant changes in the output...
even if it was a little slow, it seems like it could work for something like
spindle in pwm or if it was just driving tones to an amplifier to run the
motors directly...

So does anyone have any thoughts on this?  I'd love to hear 'em.

Jim Coleman
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Re: [Emc-users] Audio hardware as EMC output?

[Jim Coleman]

My original intentions were to create the sine to drive an AC motor.  After
i started thinking about incorporating it with EMC, i thought that it might
be possible to get a higher frequency output than the parport, for running
pwm driven amps.  I'm curious if anyone is familiar with coding involving
sound, and if anyone knows what kind of latencies are typical with changing
sound outputs and such.  I think it would be an interesting alternative to
be able to use cheap sound blaster cards (SB16 pci) to drive a couple PWMs
each.  if it would be possible to generate PWM, how much more complicated
would it be to use the surround / center channels on sound cards so
equipped?

I guess i'm thinking of this as a possible new hardware option, it's as
common as the parport, and if it could be faster too, why not?  jut sharing
the ideas with the community, not trying to get anything specific
accomplished right now.

as for why i wanted to use an amplifier as a VFD, I'm into doing stuff that
can actually be productive from junk that is  otherwise laying around in one
of the many "i can use this some day" piles. (with little to no money
spent)  The amp I'm using for my experimentation is a 4 channel class D car
amp rated for 200 watts / channel at 4 ohms, bridgable and runs 2 ohm stable
while bridged.  Powering the amp during play time is a 26AH 12V lead acid
battery, in actual use it would probably be a 600 watt power supply i have.
when i was playing around i was seeing 60V peak to peak while powering a
small dollar store food processor.  I got the idea from an electric mixer
that on the lowest setting was waayyy too fast.

On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Gene Heskett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> On Tuesday 01 April 2008, Roland Jollivet wrote:
> >I'm sure this will fit the bill
> >
> >http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LME49811.html
> >
> >
> >Regards
> >Roland
>
> As a driver for the high power analog stages yes, but note that its forte
> is a
> 200 volt output swing, at only 9 milliamps of output, so to continue from
> my
> other message, the end result, given a sufficiently robust output stage
> for
> it to drive, would be something very badly in need of heavy duty, noisy,
> cooling.  A 29 db rated muffin fan could cool quite a few of those gizmo's
> from Ramsey.  All we need are motors that run at full song on a 40 volt
> peak
> to peak drive.  The question then becomes, are such motors available?
>
> I do not know without googling.
>
> We can switch many tens of amps of current on and off with little power
> loss
> with the right devices today.  To do analog control of that much voltage
> and
> current would lose 80% of the input power in the devices that would need
> to
> get rid of 2kw worth of heat for a 500 watt motor drive, and the devices
> have
> to be 100 times as rugged.  That doesn't make sense today when a class D
> circuit can do this 500 watt motor with maybe 10 watts of heat loss, and
> probably, because it doesn't run that hot, 10x as dependable as the analog
> version.
>
> [...]
>
> --
> Cheers, Gene
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Don't confuse things that need action with those that take care of
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Re: [Emc-users] Newbie wants to find wizard

[Jim Coleman]

you might want to try turning the feed override down to like 1%, with my
little play i have with stepper motors, that's what they do when you try to
run them too fast.  I dont know where to find stepconf, you might try
running it from command line?  ive never used it.

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 5:56 PM, aaron Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Hi EMC
> I am finally the proud owner of three Nema 34 stepper motors, stepper
> drivers and a power supply all wired up with power lights ablaze, ready to
> go.  However EMC does not seem to be communicating with them.  I get some
> weeere sounds but no movement.  I see in the documentation there is a
> configuration wizard, but I can't for the life of me find it.  Can someone
> help me out here please.
> All the best
> Aaron
>
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Re: [Emc-users] SATA hard drive

[Jim Coleman]

have you changed the boot order in the computer's BIOS settings to make it
boot from the CD?  if this is set to only look on the hard drive or floppy
and not the cd, it wouldnt work.

On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 1:05 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi
> My question about SATA hard drive.
> I removed Hard Drive from one computer and install on other.
> It doesn't not work.
> First, on old computer I (we) change X11 file and it explained part of the
> trouble.
> Second I tried to reinstall UBUNTU and it does not work ether. I can not
> explain that part. When I put disk into CD it looks like system can not
> see those CD.
> So, HD uses SATA cable but CD drive uses flat ribbon cable, can that
> explain the problem with inability in reinstalling of UBUNTY?
> Thanks
>  Aram
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CNC-Workshop

[Jim Coleman]

I'd love to come to the workshop, hopefully transportation and funds will
permit.  If i can come, i will hopefully bring some of my axis servos and
drives and maybe the VFD off of my machine, just to play with.  if i
actually have it running at that time i might not be able to, but i dont
know.  No way i could bring the whole machine, as it's roughly 4 tons.  I'll
also hopefully have a mesa card to be playin with

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 10:04 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi
>
> I just received a call from Roland Friestad, the guy who puts together the
> CNC-Workshop each year.  He has had a fairly severe heart attack.  Got home
> from the hospital today and called me.  He will try to get the web
> registration up in the next week and was wondering if we could help with
> some of the coordination.
>
> He plans to contact the other major players and want's to run the workshop
> in spite of the lateness of starting up the web site.  He and his wife will
> get the site going and handle the registration.  If you are one of those
> other folk and need to get ahold of him directly, post a note to me here --
> rayhswan (at)  yahoo.com and I'll get back to you asap with his new cell
> number.
>
> He'd like us to take the responsibility for all of the EMC side of
> things.   There is the start of a wiki page at
>
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC_Fest_2008
>
> If you'd update this page with info about when you will arrive and what
> equipment you'll bring along it would be a big help.  Also if there are
> things that you are specifically interested in, put it in there as well and
> we'll try to get a class setup for your topics.
>
> There are other activities more directly connected with the workshop that
> he could use some help with. If someone is willing to assist with the
> scheduling of presentations I'll get you in contact with him.  We could put
> a preliminary page or two on our wiki for his classrooms and times and then
> transfer info to him as things come in.   If you can take the point on this
> let me know.
>
> It would probably also help if someone could serve as a focal point for
> the raffle.  Twist arms for contributions and keep track of who gave what so
> that Roland has the info he needs during the event.Then that person(s)
> would need to keep all the stuff in one place once at the workshop and set
> it up.
>
> I'll plan to show up down there Thursday/Friday before and help arrange
> things.  If a couple of you could do the same it would really help us,
> Roland, and Joe a lot.
>
> Thanks for your kind attention.  Contact me if you need to contact Roland
> directly.
>
> Rayh
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Micro stepper driver MSD542 / KL-5042 cont

[Jim Coleman]

I'm not really experienced with steppers at all, most all of my knowledge is
just from reading, and not actual experience, but if I were faced with your
problem, I would try reducing the microstepping in your drives and see how
well that works for you.  to me it seems like yo might be at the limit of
some of your hardware on the step rate, and if you reduce the microstepping
you'll effectively reduce the number of steps to move the same distance.
Have you tried increasing the duration of the step pulses and the direction
hold etc?  I saw it suggested earlier but dont recall if you tried it or
not.

One last thing that just came to mind is to see what voltage your parallel
port is outputting, or if you have a breakout board what it's opto's are
outputting.  I know that logic voltage can affect rise time of a signal, not
sure if this would have anything to do with your attainable step rates.
Hope to see your machine cutting accurately and repeatably soon, i'm glad to
help what little i might be able to.

Jim

On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 5:00 PM, aaron Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Hi agian
> If anyone can bear to listen to my woes
> I am still having problems configuring my stepper machine.  As someone
> suggested, the problem seems to be with the rapid moves.  I
> have got one good result with Velocity @ 20mm acceleration @ 10 with micro
> stepping set @ 16 with the motors wired in parallel,
> but I have not been able to repeat this success.  Acceleration set above 20
> and the motors sound terrible and miss stepps.  Below
> 20 the rapid moves do not go to the right place.
>
> Can anyone explain why the machine moves correctly on cutting moves and
> rapid moves go wonky?
> Thanks
> Aaron
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Vishay Pot

[Jim Coleman]

possible to replace it with a transistor circuit?

On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 7:18 PM, Kirk Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> I have a ten-turn eight Watt Spectrol/Vishay potentiometer.
>
> http://www.vishay.com/doc?57093
>
> I was having trouble getting sensible voltage readings through it, so I
> took it apart. It looks like it may not be made to be taken apart. The
> solder posts are mounted with a screws. The end of the screws have a
> short less than hair thin wire on it. I suppose I broke the wire when I
> loosened the screw? Has any one worked on these and have advise on how
> to repair them. Newark has them for $80 each so I'd like to fix the one
> I broke.
>
> --
> Kirk Wallace (California, USA
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
> Hardinge HNC/EMC CNC lathe,
> Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now,
> Zubal lathe conversion pending
> Craftsman AA 109 restoration
> Shizuoka ST-N/EMC CNC)
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Power Supply. was Re: ini.fiiles (aaron Moore)

[Jim Coleman]

or even watch a multimeter on the voltage when running a program, and see if
it's dropping.

On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 7:59 AM, Daniel Kavanagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Aaron,
>
>  Try splitting the power supplies, one to x, one to y and z ummm,
>
>  Z and side to side, other to the big heavy gantry alone.
>
>  If it's also happening in Mach then it's prolly power supply.
>
>  I looked up those power supplies, they are switch mode, as opposed to
> chunks of transformer. Copper and Iron are your friends.
>
>  I tried a switching supply on my router and it acted crazy, worked on
> one axis at a time but on multi axis moves it would stutter and stall.
>
>  Dan
>
>  P.S. My first machine was a hell of a learning curve. I think I made
> every mistake possible.
>
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[Emc-users] running 3 phase components on 2?

[Jim Coleman]

hello all, I've recently moved and now finally have convenient access to a
220V outlet.  I have a Sanyo Denki BL Super servo power supply and amps and
motors from the machine I bought nearly a year ago now, and i really want to
get around to getting them all running.  I'm wondering how safe on the power
unit it is to run it off of 2 phase, for both testing and on the machine
running.  where the machine is, there is 2 phase service and i have a
home-built rotary phase converter with a 7.5 hp motor.  This was built to
run the lathe on, which also has a 7.5 hp motor in it (non CNC)

For testing, i want to go buy a cord that'll plug into the outlet in the
garage and run the power supply and vfd off of it for testing.

Would you guys think it'd be safe to try it with only 2 phases?  Or should I
reverse engineer the initial stages of the power supply to determine how it
handles the input.  I'm figuring it probably just rectifies the 3 phases to
a single DC supply, but im not sure.  to my knowledge it's output is 180V,
and the 3 axes are 1.2,1.2, and 2.8KW power ratings, per the mills manual.
for testing, I'll only be playing with 1, maybe 2 amps on it at a time and
no load on the motor shaft except maybe a laser pointer taped onto it.  If I
had to, it seems I could put in bigger rectifiers and all to step up the 2
phases of the input, if thats what it does with it.

The VFD is a mitsubishi freqrol, i think the spindle is 7.5 hp as well, and
im not sure how often i'd ever hit anywhere near this much power.  If anyone
knows where to find documentation for the sanyo denki or mitsubishi stuff,
I'd love to know.  I havnt managed to find anything on the net, and the
print stuff i have that looks to be a datasheet for the servo amps is in
japanese.

thanks for all suggestions and advice
Jim Coleman
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Re: [Emc-users] aio-500

[Jim Coleman]

If the motors are humming, you might have the pins and everything set up
right in EMC, just tryin to use a feed rate that is too fast for the motors
to keep up with.  try moving the feed override slider in AXIS down to just a
couple percent, and see how that works out.

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 9:10 PM, rick dell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> thanks for your help i will try a different computer the motors would just
> hum so this makes sense thanks
> rick
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:49:20 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] aio-500
> >
> > On Wed, 2008-07-23 at 00:18 +, rick dell wrote:
> > > yes the link you sent me is the correct item. the computer i am
> > > trying to use is an old compaq laptop. as far as my configuration goes
> > > i am lost, i set it up according to there directions on the program
> > > they suggest to use but have not configured it correctly ( or even
> > > close for emc) which is the program i really want to use. any help is
> > > appreciated
> > >
> > > rick
> >
> > Laptops can have a number of problems with EMC2. See:
> >
> > http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Hardware_Requirements
> > http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Latency-Test
> >
> > Some don't work well with the real-time kernel. Some laptops and
> > motherboard parallel ports have 3 Volt outputs or drivers that don't
> > have enough power to drive some motor board inputs. I would suggest
> > trying to find a free or nearly free desktop computer and use a PCI
> > parallel port. The PCI cards seem to have better output drivers and if
> > you blow one up you are only out ~$16.
> >
> > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815166007
> >
> > You may want to start with EMC2 straight away because I don't think what
> > you might learn from another software program will apply to EMC2. There
> > is a Stepconf wizard or utility that will do allot of the setup for you.
> >
> > http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//config_stepconf.html
> >
> > If needed, you can manually edit the configuration files to work out any
> > details.
> >
> > --
> > Kirk Wallace (California, USA
> > http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
> > Hardinge HNC/EMC CNC lathe,
> > Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now,
> > Zubal lathe conversion pending
> > Craftsman AA 109 restoration
> > Shizuoka ST-N/EMC CNC)
> >
> >
> > -
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Reply to thread 'Survey about EMC 2 ( Aimed at non users)'

[Jim Coleman]

so i guess hurco should go around sueing all the high schools that have
classes called "conversational spanish" ?

If I was the king of the world, people would be jailed for trying to sue
over ridiculous things such as that.  then the number of lawsuits would
surely drop.

On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 9:10 AM, Emory Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Well, the lawyers oughtta like that.
>
> Please don't use the word  "Word".
> It's trademarked by Microsoft .
> Now, I'll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> probably be sued by MS,
> whoever owns "Conversational " _and_
> whoever owns "Happy Birthday " since I left them in
> this email .
> Going for my 15 minutes ... (or was that 15
> seconds? ;^) of fame.
>
> In future, the Internet  will break down not from
> Youtube  and other video/high
> bandwidth consumers  but from the 
> gigabytes
> of required citation s, disclaimers
> and copyright  notices for each and every 
> wordused in
> email . I have several
> friends who work in law offices and often their corporate sigs are much
> longer
> than the message.
>
> Sorry, this is no place for ranting and I won't do it again ;^)
> Emory <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 12:09 AM, Kirk Wallace <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Sorry about that, I guess it's coming to the point where each person on
> > the planet will need a personal lawyer to get through the day. I saw on
> > TV recently that "Happy Birthday" is copy righted.
> >
> > On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 00:39 -0400, CNCzone.com-The Ultimate Machinist
> > Community wrote:
> > > Dear kirk_wallace,
> > >
> > > skullworks has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to
> > > entitled - Survey about EMC 2 ( Aimed at non users) - in the EMC/Linux
> > > (Enhanced Machine Control) forum of CNCzone.com-The Ultimate Machinist
> > > Community.
> > >
> > > This thread is located at:
> > > http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59635&goto=newpost
> > >
> > > Here is the message that has just been posted:
> > > ***
> > > Please don't use the Word "Conversational".
> > >
> > > It is Trade marked and Copywrited and integrated into serveral
> > > patents. And the holder of which has made more profit from suing
> > > people who use that term than from the sale of the machine tool
> > > software which IS "Conversational".
> > >
> > > Fanuc was bleeding green when the term was used in a translation - and
> > > the translated terms were used in an a sales add. Cost them several
> > > million or so I heard.
> > >
> > > Perhaps "Fully Interactive" ( IIRC someone else holds claim to
> > > "Interact" )
> > > ***
> >
> >
> >
> > -
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Re: [Emc-users] Following error joint 2

[Jim Coleman]

I could be wrong, but I think the BDI is a REALLY old version of emc.  I
would try to download the newest version and go through the stepconf wizard
to set up your pins on the parport, and then try running the g code again.

On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 9:57 PM, Andi Frommel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> hi folks
>
> i'm new to this...
> new to cnc
> new to emc2
> new to linux
>
> since i've almost finished a conversion of a desktop micro mill, i tried
> some of the example g-code files installed from the bdi.
>
> i use brushed dc motors together with whale2 drivers in
> step/dir mode.
> so far so good - but sometimes i get a following error joint 2
> (which is my z-axis).
>
> emc2 does not actually know the position of the axis in that
> mode (i assume)  'cos it continues anyway even if one of the drivers
> switches off due to a following error.
>
> that's why i want to ask you if you can help me with this nasty error
> which stops all movements.
> the error repeats every time when executing the same line in the g-code.
>
> thanks for your help
> andy
>
>
>
>
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[Emc-users] etch-servo pwm output to servo amp's input?

[Jim Coleman]

Tonight I hooked up the jogwheel and one of the motor's encoders (100 line
and 2500 lines) to the parport, and with turning up the ferror in the ini I
can use it like a DRO, turning the encoders moves the axis readings.  I was
wondering if i could just build an H bridge or similar switching circuit to
run the output between the -12 and +12V rails on an AT or AT power supply,
maybe use 7809 and 7909 regulators to keep it below 10V, to run to the
analog VCMD input on the servo amp? the manual to the mill says that it runs
+/- 9V, which seems odd compared to everything else. Then I'll have to
likely put in a couple switches on the a and b's of the encoders to send the
quadrature to both the amp and back to EMC.  If I managed my math right, if
i can get the parport sampling at 30 khz (i think i read somewhere that that
should be realistic) I should be able to keep track of 180 RPM or so on the
encoders, if everything stays ideal.

Also, what do I need to add in the hal and everything to enable an index on
the encoders?  I'm thinking I can see if it is missing counts if I have an
index to reference.

I hope all of this makes sense, its been a long day and I'm excited I've
actually made a little progress.

Thanks guys,
Jim Coleman
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Re: [Emc-users] etch-servo pwm output to servo amp's input?

[Jim Coleman]

I've hooked the encoders to the parport right now just to see if I could get
that feedback working directly from the encoders to the parport.  My goal is
to get closed loop motion out of my motors without having to buy a card like
a mesa.  I think that if I can use the PWM output to derive an analog Vcmd
for the servo amps, I'll be able to run it, slow enough for a parport to
keep up with the encoder.

I have the mill, the original control has been ripped out of it after it had
a runaway on Y during a tool change (Y and Z axes are mounted on a gantry
like, and X is under the table)
I've only been making enough money to pay the bills and keep the car puttin
along, so I havnt  been able to invest any money into the m5i20 and 7i33
combo, but I sure would love to be able to get it running at minimill speeds
with like $20 worth of hardware.  buying 40 taper tooling definitely wont be
easy, I might end up turnin some of my own if i have to.

On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 11:54 PM, Kirk Wallace
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> On Sat, 2008-08-09 at 22:34 -0400, Jim Coleman wrote:
> > Tonight I hooked up the jogwheel and one of the motor's encoders (100
> > line and 2500 lines) to the parport, and with turning up the ferror in
> > the ini I can use it like a DRO, turning the encoders moves the axis
> > readings.  I was wondering if i could just build an H bridge or
> > similar switching circuit to run the output between the -12 and +12V
> > rails on an AT or AT power supply, maybe use 7809 and 7909 regulators
> > to keep it below 10V, to run to the analog VCMD input on the servo
> > amp? the manual to the mill says that it runs +/- 9V, which seems odd
> > compared to everything else. Then I'll have to likely put in a couple
> > switches on the a and b's of the encoders to send the quadrature to
> > both the amp and back to EMC.  If I managed my math right, if i can
> > get the parport sampling at 30 khz (i think i read somewhere that that
> > should be realistic) I should be able to keep track of 180 RPM or so
> > on the encoders, if everything stays ideal.
>
> It sounds like you want to go directly from a jog wheel to a motor
> driver for axis movement. Then have EMC as a DRO. If that is the case,
> why not have EMC2 do the motion control and do manual machining with the
> jog wheel through EMC2? This is the normal setup. The hardware would be
> the same except you wouldn't need to build an encoder to motor drive
> interface. This could be tricky because the jog wheel is a position
> device and the amp input is a velocity signal. One unit change on the
> jog wheel doesn't correspond to a particular amp signal.
>
> I would look into setting up EMC2 to have a two parallel port pins for
> PWM Forward and PWM Reverse. Each of these could feed an opto-coupler
> that would switch your +9 or -9 Volts to convert them to a PWM modulated
> analog signal for your amp input. I am not sure of the details, and
> there might be vastly better ways to do this, but this is just to convey
> an idea of how EMC2 could output a voltage (velocity) that your amps
> need and have EMC2 do the position thing from the encoder feedback.
>
> > Also, what do I need to add in the hal and everything to enable an
> > index on the encoders?  I'm thinking I can see if it is missing counts
> > if I have an index to reference.
>
> I think you would need to write a custom component that reads the
> software decoder counter on the first index trigger and then compares
> that with subsequent counts on index to see if they happen on multiples
> of encoder counts per rev. I wouldn't mind seeing more background error
> checking of hardware subsystems.
>
> > I hope all of this makes sense, its been a long day and I'm excited
> > I've actually made a little progress.
> >
> > Thanks guys,
> > Jim Coleman
>
> Are you doing more than one project? I thought you where well along on a
> mill conversion. Could you give us a summary of what you are doing?
>
> --
> Kirk Wallace (California, USA
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
> Hardinge HNC/EMC CNC lathe,
> Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now,
> Zubal lathe conversion pending
> Craftsman AA 109 restoration
> Shizuoka ST-N/EMC CNC)
>
>
> -
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> ___
>

Re: [Emc-users] etch-servo pwm output to servo amp's input?

[Jim Coleman]

Runaway is something i was worried about, and I still havnt determined the
culprit of why the Y ran off that last day the machine was in service in the
shop it was in.  So far I know that the A and B signals from the encoder are
good, havnt tested the z, znot, anot and bnot yet, and I have to solder a
couple wires into the tach because one of the cats got to it and thought it
was tasty enough to chew in half.

I was hoping that if I limit the commanded voltage to the amp and turn the
gain down enough, I could keep it from turning fast enough to miss counts,
but im not sure how safe this would  be. the last time this machine crashed,
it had a tool changer arm there to help it decel.  When(if)  I  do  get EMC
connected up to the amps  this way, it'll  go through  considerable  testing
on the bench before putting the motors back on the machine.   I'm just
hoping to be making some chips before I have saved enough to buy the mesa,
but dont want to see how hard i can smack the end of a ballscrew or the hard
stops.  not sure if the tach's signal could somehow be used, to switch the
estop on if the voltage gets over a certain point.

for the tooling and the spindle, im pretty sure its CAT 40.  I've always
just heard it refered to as '40 taper' and it's the same holders (minus
pullstuds) that the fadals and the haas VF2,4, and 5 use at the shop.

the motors and amps are sanyo denki BL-super
>From the machine's manual the motor and amp combinations are..
X motor 20BM090MXP42 amp 27BA030FTH1 torque cont./stall 90/200 kg-cm
Y motor 20BM090MXP41 amp 27BA030FTH1 torque cont./stall 90/200 kg-cm
Z motor 20BM220MBP41 amp 27BA050FXTH2 torque cont./stall 200/340 kg-cm
all max 1500 RPM, overspeed detection speed at 2400 rpm
I've googled around but couldnt find any info on these, i have what looks
like a datasheet, but it's in japanese, so i sure cant make anything of it.
If anyone happens across some docs i'd love to see them.


On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 10:11 AM, Peter C. Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Sun, 10 Aug 2008, Jim Coleman wrote:
> SNIP___
> >>
> >>> Also, what do I need to add in the hal and everything to enable an
> >>> index on the encoders?  I'm thinking I can see if it is missing counts
> >>> if I have an index to reference.
> >>
> >> I think you would need to write a custom component that reads the
> >> software decoder counter on the first index trigger and then compares
> >> that with subsequent counts on index to see if they happen on multiples
> >> of encoder counts per rev. I wouldn't mind seeing more background error
> >> checking of hardware subsystems.
>
>
> This brings up a real hazard here: If you get going so fast you miss counts
> with your software encoder counter, you can lose control of your servo.
> Index
> pulses tend to be short so they may disappear at the same time. Normally I
> would expect this set of circumstances to throw a FE, but I would not trust
> my
> life or even a small appendage to this always happening.
>
> Servo runaway can also happen with hardware failure in ways that will not
> throw a FE ( say a broken encoder wire+ an integral term in the PID
> loop...),
> so I think its good to have some kind of excessive drive detection (maybe
> as
> simple as detecting full drive for 20 or so samples in a row)
>
>
>
>
> >>
> >>> I hope all of this makes sense, its been a long day and I'm excited
> >>> I've actually made a little progress.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks guys,
>
> >>> Jim Coleman
> >>
> >> Are you doing more than one project? I thought you where well along on a
> >> mill conversion. Could you give us a summary of what you are doing?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Kirk Wallace (California, USA
> >> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
> >> Hardinge HNC/EMC CNC lathe,
> >> Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now,
> >> Zubal lathe conversion pending
> >> Craftsman AA 109 restoration
> >> Shizuoka ST-N/EMC CNC)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> -
> >> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's
> >> challenge
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> >> ___
> >> Emc-use

Re: [Emc-users] etch-servo pwm output to servo amp's input?

[Jim Coleman]

the spindle / tooling arent a draw bar like on a bridgeport, they have
pullstuds in the back, which get grabbed by some kind of mechanism inside
the head, im still curious to see how it goes about doing it, I know its
spring tensioned and hydraulically released.

the amps look identical at a glance, im on lunch break so im tryin to keep
it quick.  the motors are all directly connected to the amps, thats why i
thought to send the quadrature to both emc and the amp.

there are aluminum strips along the ways, i havnt seen any connectors on
them where they would be scales, but it's a possibility.  If i go to the
town where the machine is I'll try to remember to get the camera and some
pictures.

Thanks again for all the help, its REALLY appreciated
Jim

On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 6:49 PM, Kirk Wallace
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> On Sun, 2008-08-10 at 11:43 -0400, Jim Coleman wrote:
> ... snip
> > for the tooling and the spindle, im pretty sure its CAT 40.  I've
> > always just heard it refered to as '40 taper' and it's the same
> > holders (minus pullstuds) that the fadals and the haas VF2,4, and 5
> > use at the shop.
>
> Your machine has a threaded draw bar?
>
> > the motors and amps are sanyo denki BL-super
> > From the machine's manual the motor and amp combinations are..
> > X motor 20BM090MXP42 amp 27BA030FTH1 torque cont./stall 90/200 kg-cm
> > Y motor 20BM090MXP41 amp 27BA030FTH1 torque cont./stall 90/200 kg-cm
> > Z motor 20BM220MBP41 amp 27BA050FXTH2 torque cont./stall 200/340 kg-cm
> > all max 1500 RPM, overspeed detection speed at 2400 rpm
> > I've googled around but couldnt find any info on these, i have what
> > looks like a datasheet, but it's in japanese, so i sure cant make
> > anything of it.  If anyone happens across some docs i'd love to see
> > them.
>
> Here is the only Sanyo link I have found useful for my P5's.
>
> http://www.motiononline.com/NewFiles/download.html
> http://www.motiononline.com/index.html
>
> These are similar to your drives and motors?
> http://www.circuitcnc.co.uk/details.aspx?ProductID=96#
> http://www.circuitcnc.co.uk/details.aspx?ProductID=95#
> http://www.circuitcnc.co.uk/details.aspx?ProductID=111#
> http://www.circuitcnc.co.uk/details.aspx?ProductID=112#
>
> It looks like the amps are really controllers which have some sort of
> motion control in them. So the motor feed back goes back to the
> controller and not EMC, similar to step/direction controllers except it
> seems you have velocity inputs.
>
> Here are links to a related thread:
>
> http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,2303.0.html
> http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,2303.10.html
>
> The amp diagrams shown in the thread don't seem to match the picture of
> your amps above though. Without real data on this system, it's hard to
> make any conclusions on how it works.
>
> --
> Kirk Wallace (California, USA
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
> Hardinge HNC/EMC CNC lathe,
> Bridgeport mill conversion, doing XY now,
> Zubal lathe conversion pending
> Craftsman AA 109 restoration
> Shizuoka ST-N/EMC CNC)
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Puma560

[Jim Coleman]

possibility of replacing the encoders with one with index?

would there be enough room on the us digital discs to drill a couple holes
closer to the center for the purpose of limits?

On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 3:44 PM, sam sokolik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  Well that sucks :)  my plan is to make some inexpensive h-bridges and
> using one of the mesa cards we have to run it.  40v and a few amps should be
> easy.  I am very surprised that it is sin/cos.  Darn.  I will  keep tabs on
> this  thread for sure .
>
> Thanks again.
> sam
>
> Jonathan Hancock wrote:
>
>   Hi all - just a quick update on my Puma project.
>
> As a thought, the output from the original encoders is a sin/cos waveform
> (to see goto http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ). I will try to
> convert this low level signal into a ttl level square wave using an op-amp.
> The encoder has a pair of leds and photo sensors in.
>
> I am looking at using a pic adc to gain limit and homing signals from the
> pots on the back of the motors. This is looking quite promissing.
>
> I've installed ubuntu and emc2 on my machine and now baffled!
>
> Jon - am I sorting the correct things out to interface to your cards?
>
> I'll keep you posted...
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Problem on EMC2 starting with rtai_hall.ko

[Jim Coleman]

your base period and those timings need adjusted to a higher number, the
computer isnt able to keep up with the speeds the configs are trying to
run.  these are in the stepper_mm.ini file.

this talks about using the latency test to set the timings.
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TweakingSoftwareStepGeneration

2008/9/25 Евгений Александрович <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> Hello,
>
> I have more information.
>
> I installed linux&emc2 on real machine.
>
> I have same result :(
>
> But if I try to start emc second time withour reboot system starts, but
> with errors. (Both on VM and RM)
> It is log of second start.
>
> # emc
> EMC2 - 2.2.5
> Machine configuration directory is
> '/usr/local/etc/emc2/sample-configs/stepper'
> Machine configuration file is 'stepper_mm.ini'
> Starting EMC2...
> libnml/cms/tcp_srv.cc 278: bind error: 98 -- Address already in use
> libnml/cms/tcp_srv.cc 279: Server can not bind the connection socket on
> port 5005.
> libnml/rcs/rcs_exit.cc 99:
>  Errors Reported!!!
>  Press ^C to exit.
> RTAPI: ERROR: Unexpected realtime delay on task 1
>
> I can start program, but this way I get messagebox "Unexpected realtime
> delay on task 1" several times.
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Евгений Александрович<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller \(EMC\)
> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 13:19:07 +0400
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users]Problem on EMC2 starting with rtai_hall.ko
>
> >
> >
> > > sounds like rtai is already loaded. Either you compiled it into the
> kernel,
> > > not as a module.
> > What do you mean. Did I somesing worng in kernel?
> >
> > > Or you had a latency test still running, or the last time you had
> realtime
> > > run there was some problem during unload.
> > > A lsmod should tell you more, and a reboot will probably cure it.
> > Reboot is not solution. I tried it many times.
> > At bottom is my log after reboot
> >
> > > > I user VMWare machine under WinXP
> > >
> > > I do that too sometimes without problems. (I don't expect to run any
> real
> > > machine this way..)
> >
> > Any way I will try to install on real machine.
> >
> >  EMC DEBUG FILE
> > Stopping realtime threads
> > Unloading hal components
> >
> >  EMC PRINT FILE
> > RUN_IN_PLACE=no
> > EMC2_DIR=
> > EMC2_BIN_DIR=/usr/local/bin
> > EMC2_TCL_DIR=/usr/local/share/emc/tcl
> > EMC2_SCRIPT_DIR=
> > EMC2_RTLIB_DIR=/usr/realtime/modules/emc2
> > EMC2_CONFIG_DIR=
> > EMC2_LANG_DIR=/usr/local/share/emc/tcl/msgs
> > INIVAR=/usr/local/bin/inivar
> > HALCMD=/usr/local/bin/halcmd
> > EMC2_EMCSH=/usr/local/bin/emcsh
> > EMC2_IOSH=/usr/local/bin/iosh
> > INIFILE=/usr/local/etc/emc2/sample-configs/stepper/stepper_mm.ini
> > PARAMETER_FILE=stepper.var
> > EMCMOT=motmod
> > EMCIO=io
> > TASK=milltask
> > HALUI=
> > DISPLAY=axis
> > NML_FILE=emc.nml
> > Starting EMC2 server program: emcsvr
> > Loading Real Time OS, RTAPI, and HAL_LIB modules
> > Removing HAL_LIB, RTAPI, and Real Time OS modules
> > Removing NML shared memory segments
> >
> >  CONSOLE LOG
> > # lsmod
> > Module  Size  Used by
> > usb_storage84160  0
> > usbcore   138220  1 usb_storage
> > ide_cd 39584  0
> > cdrom  36384  1 ide_cd
> > evdev  11648  0
> > hal_lib36376  0
> > rtapi  35796  1 hal_lib
> > rtai_math  27140  0
> > rtai_sem   23552  1 rtapi
> > rtai_shm   12164  1 rtapi
> > rtai_fifos 29640  1 rtapi
> > rtai_sched102360  4 rtapi,rtai_sem,rtai_shm,rtai_fifos
> > rtai_hal   39868  5
> rtapi,rtai_sem,rtai_shm,rtai_fifos,rtai_sched
> > snd_mixer_oss  16384  0
> > snd_hda_intel 283548  0
> > snd_pcm76936  1 snd_hda_intel
> > snd_timer  22788  1 snd_pcm
> > snd51940  4
> snd_mixer_oss,snd_hda_intel,snd_pcm,snd_timer
> > soundcore   7392  1 snd
> > snd_page_alloc 10376  2 snd_hda_intel,snd_pcm
> > apm20432  0
> > nls_utf82048  0
> > nls_cp866   5248  0
> >
> > # cd /usr/realtime/testsuite/kern/latency/
> > # ./run
> > *
> > *
> > * Type ^C to stop this application.
> > *
> > *
> >
> > ## RTAI latency calibration tool ##
> > # period = 10 (ns)
> > # avrgtime = 1 (s)
> > # do not use the FPU
> > # start the timer
> > # timer_mode is oneshot
> >
> > RTAI Testsuite - KERNEL latency (all data in nanoseconds)
> > RTH|lat min|ovl min|lat avg|lat max|ovl max|
> overruns
> > RTD|  0|  0|  91538|2443889|2443889|
> 8498
> > RTD|  0|  0|  92556|1709717|2443889|
>  17202
> > RTD|   -838|   -838|  92385|1765031|2443889|
>  25888
> > RTD|  0|   -838|  91617|1727317|2443889|
>  34456
> > RTD|  0|   -838|  92610|17

Re: [Emc-users] Parallel port in the future - query

[Jim Coleman]

alan, have you considered replacing the fan?  this seems like the cheapest
solution to me :-D  and you could probably find a complete heatsink with fan
for your laptop on ebay, people part out laptops alot on there.
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[Emc-users] Sanyo Denki power supply

[Jim Coleman]

Hey everyone, I just got the wires replaced inside the tachogenerator on one
of my servo motors (cat chewed them in half while it was sitting out where i
was working), and I think it's time to get everything hooked up and see what
happens when i feed the amp a Vcmd.

My first hangup is the wiring for the power supply.  I guess it's not a
hangup, but more of a double-check.

On the inputs to the suppley, the terminals are labeled R, S, T, E, COM,
PON, and PAL.  R, S, T, and are the 3 phase input and ground.

The mill's manual specs say there is a "Power ON signal", "contact opened on
normal power continuity" and "Power error", "contact short-circuited on
pegenerative abnormality or open collector TrON"

So after reading this, I'd guess that PON goes float during normal
operation, and is pulled to ground by relay contact when theres problem?
and for PAL, I'd guess that... well...  the same thing?  Is it me not
comprehending what little info I have?  I'm hoping that for testing, I wont
need to use these at all.

If anyone knows where to find sanyo denki BL-super manuals or datasheets or
any info at all, I'll be extremely grateful if you share.   I've googled and
all i can find is people selling them.  the part numbers are:
Power supply: BP060RXB
Amps, X+Y: 27BA030FXTH1
Amp, Z:  27BA050FXTH2
Motors X,Y:20BM090MXP42


as far as whether or not the supply will run on single phase power, the 3
phases run from the breaker to a rectifier,
http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets_pdf/R/M/3/0/RM30TA-H.shtml  so i
think it would be fine running single phase.  I'm still trying to figure out
where the PON and PAL wires run, but there isnt much room to see in there,
let alone poke my fat fingers around.  Dont worry, the capacitor is fully
discharged :)
The machine was built late 1987, if this helps any at all.

I really dont know how i can show my appreciation for all the help you guys
give, and I cant wait till i can afford to go to fest and meet some of you.
If I could bring my machine, I would but it's WAYYY too big for that, but
the servos and amps will fit in the trunk of the neon :D
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Re: [Emc-users] Syncing an EMC program to other CNC system

[Jim Coleman]

will 'halui.program.resume' start a program after m30?  just wondering how
that would work.

and what about on the haas?  i remember reading the g code quick reference
and it saying the haas has optional outputs, but what about an input to wait
untill input is high or low, then resume next line of program, something
like that?

On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 10:32 PM, Chris Radek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 08:57:37PM -0600, Jon Elson wrote:
>
> > it is just the synch between the two CNC controllers that has
> > to be figured out.  I think that is all part of EMC2 already, I just
> > have to learn how to do it.
>
> I think my answer was simple and pretty sure to work - is there
> something I missed?
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] I need an RF TRANSMITTER and RECEIVER DATA LINK FOR PARALLEL PORT

[Jim Coleman]

i'm not an expert, but i dont think any position critical motion control
being done over wireless would be a good idea, especially if it was a cheap
wireless solution.  I would think that it would be susceptible to noise ad
interference, which could cause parts of the machine being somewhere they
aren't supposed to be.

Is there any reason you cant just run 4 wires there?  or  8 if you want to
convert the parallel
 port to differential logic(3 signals, their suppliment signals, ground and
+supply for the differential to open ended logic converter circuit.  I would
trust copper more than RF.  If i did go RF i would avoid anything higher
than 900 mhz due to penetration / signal reflection issues. also plenty of
power to make sure nothing around overpowers your transmitted signal.

good luck in your build
Jim


On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Olusegun A. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Good day all,
> Please I would be glad if someone could help me out with a simple RF DATA
> LINK TRANSMITTER AND RECEIVER for Parallel port. I intend to extend my
> paralle port by wireless means. I got one but I could not get the ICs here
> in Nigeria, Even if the circuit will just transmit only 3 pins of the
> Paralel port and ground. Thank you all
>
> Olusegun Abode
> +234 8037045535
> Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Control of AC motor in antenna rotor

[Jim Coleman]

could you use 3 outputs from a parport to control the sync. motors?  an
enable pin, and then 2 of them on H bridges pulsing 90 degrees out of phase
to run the motors?  also, am i missing something big here, or would these
motors run kinda like bipolar steppers, but designed to turn constant speed
instead of being more position oriented?  wondering if a stepper drive would
be easily adaptable to run a rotor.

another thought regarding the 'home', how hard would it be to put a little
microswitch on the hard stop so just as it's about to hit the hard stop it
can close the switch and gently coast into the stop instead of whackin it
full speed?  also, MPJA.com has proximity switches for $20, not sure if
that's expensive or not in todays market, I just know ive seen receipts at
work for replacements on machines that make the $20 look cheap.

I'm interested in a project like this for aiming wifi antennas with tight
radiation patterns, like 7 degrees or less.  also, a coworker has a rotor
with a broken control box, if something was simple enough to impliment he
might swing towards something like that rather than just not watchin certain
channels.

last thought regarding the UPS / generator.  couldnt you use an old laptop
with a rebuilt battery pack in it, and keep it in standby and have it wake
when power goes out?  not sure off hand how you could impliment the wake, i
have no idea how the wake on LAN connector on the motherboard works, and
dont know if you'd be able to poll the parport while in sleep.  maybe a
modem with wake on ring, and somehow send an AC signal to that when the
power drops off?  I've never implimented wake on LAN or wake on ring, so all
of this is just wild guesses on my part.  but I'd definitely like to see
what you come up with, if nothing else im sure it's be a good read or some
pretty pictures to gander at.

On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 12:07 PM, Kirk Wallace
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> On Fri, 2008-11-28 at 06:38 -0500, Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote:
> ... snip
> > Kirk,
> >
> >  Just curious, but how would it boot with a power outage, and
> > the generator not up and running?  For a generator control I'd leave
> > the machine up and running all the time, plugged into a decent sized
> > UPS.  That way, there's no lag in the boot up time, the UPS would
> > keep he PC up and running until the generator came on line, and the
> > PC could still monitor the power.  Keep it simple.
> >
> > Mark
>
> Having a UPS(s) to bridge the time between mains outage to generator
> output was part of the plan. I would bridge just the equipment needed.
> If I can boot the generator controller in a minute or two, it won't need
> to be on all of the time. I'd like to save energy wherever I can.
>
> Thinking a little more, I guess I could use something like a solar
> inverter as a UPS which would have a fair amount of intelligence built
> in. Or, I could try to get the Ubuntu/HAL computer to do the UPS and
> generator function together, in which case it would need to be on all of
> the time. This is getting more complex.
>
> But, ... UPS's are complex due to having to come on-line instantly,
> which a solar inverter might not be designed to do. It would be nice to
> have one unit that backed up power to the whole house, but I may be
> better off having stand alone UPS's on just the critical equipment.
>
> I haven't put enough effort into this yet.
> ---
> Kirk
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Strange problem with position feed back

[Jim Coleman]

I'm not sure if theres a reason you used Z to power the laser, but have you
considered wiring the laser to a spindle speed output?  then you wouldnt
have to be programming moves in Z in order to power the laser (at least
thats how it seems it works to me?) then you just connect the spindle speed
as read from the program to a scale if necessary then to the pwmgen.  then
instead of moving Z you could use m03 s to set power, 0 to 100 would be
simple for a percent power setting, or if you scale it to the laser's mw,
you could program by that.

just some ideas, sorry i hav nothing to contribute about what you really
asked about
Jim Coleman

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 7:03 PM, Eric H. Johnson wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I have a strange problem which looks like it is related to the position
> feedback, but I also suspect I may be looking in entirely the wrong place.
> I
> have a three axis configuration where the Z axis is mapped to a PWM for a
> laser. The hardware is the Mesa m5i20 controller with the hostmot2
> firmware.
> Z is directly fed to the laser, the feedback settings are just to prevent
> following errors. I have tried several ways of connecting the Z command and
> position feedback, but this is the way that so far works the best (X and Y
> are shown just for completeness):
>
> net Xpos-cmd axis.0.motor-pos-cmd => hm2_5i20.0.stepgen.00.position-cmd
> net Ypos-cmd axis.1.motor-pos-cmd => hm2_5i20.0.stepgen.01.position-cmd
> net Zpos-cmd axis.2.motor-pos-cmd => axis.2.motor-pos-fb
>
> net Xpos-fb hm2_5i20.0.stepgen.00.position-fb => axis.0.motor-pos-fb
> net Ypos-fb hm2_5i20.0.stepgen.01.position-fb => axis.1.motor-pos-fb
> net Zpos-cmd  => hm2_5i20.0.pwmgen.00.value
>
> setp hm2_5i20.0.stepgen.00.position-scale [AXIS_0]SCALE
> setp hm2_5i20.0.stepgen.01.position-scale [AXIS_1]SCALE
> setp hm2_5i20.0.pwmgen.00.scale 1.0
>
> Now here is the strange part, if scale in the last line is set to 1.0,
> everything seems to work fine (except as below). If scale is set to
> something less that 1.0 it runs gcode for some length of time until the
> system e-stops, but no error message is generated. The length of time
> (number of lines of gcode) is dependent on several factors, among them:
>
> 1> Increasing FERROR (in the ini file) causes it to run longer to a point.
> 2> Decreasing scale decreases the amount of time before e-stop
> 3> Increasing the period of the servo thread increases how long the gcode
> runs before encountering an estop, at least to a point.
> 3> Changing the axis type from linear to angular usually increases the
> number of lines of g-code executed, however when scale is 1.0 only angular
> eventually results in the error, if it would occur with the axis as linear,
> I do not have a g-code file long enough (3000+ lines) to encounter it.
>
> For example, FERROR of 10.0, servo period of 100, and scale of 0.1 will
> execute about 1000 lines of my test program. Decreasing scale to 0.01
> decreases the number of lines executed to about 200.
>
> I am directly feeding the commanded position back to the feedback position,
> so I do not see how scale can affect the feedback loop, or really anything
> else. It isn't connected to anything except the PWM output itself. The
> scale
> in the ini file is set to 1.0, and directly set in the hal file.
>
> It may be something else entirely, but I do not see it. I checked for an
> over temp condition on the laser for example, because as scale decreases,
> laser power increases, but it is not faulting, and would only shut down the
> laser if it did. As a stepper system, basically everything runs open loop,
> so there really aren't any conditions which would cause it to shut down.
>
> I have another box, which I can upgrade to the same version of Linux and
> EMC, and see if it generates the same error when completely disconnected
> from the hardware. I just need to force the NC limit switches.
>
> Any other ideas or speculations appreciated.
>
> Regards,
> Eric
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Strange problem with position feed back

[Jim Coleman]

another thought.  can you take out the pid loop completely?  that way the
pwmgen just gets the Zpos-cmd and thats the end of it, no following to worry
about.  or do i need to do a bit more reading?

It just hit me how that would work, Z doesnt have to be constantly moving,
it's more like moving a sliding pot up or down setting the power.

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 8:04 PM, Eric H. Johnson wrote:

> Jim,
>
> I have done that too, but the problem with using the spindle is that the
> system stutters when the spindle speed changes. Using Z allows smoothly
> changing laser power on the fly. I make Z values very small, then use large
> multipliers on the PWM scale so that laser power can change quickly without
> getting slowed down much by the kinematics. I have also been playing with
> using an angular axis instead of a linear axis for the laser.
>
> There was some discussion a year or so ago about high speed I/O, which I
> would still like to do for laser writing and 3D engraving. That would
> require updating a PWM output as fast as every 200 microseconds (5Khz) or
> gating an output perhaps as fast as 50 microseconds.
>
> Regards,
> Eric
>
> I'm not sure if theres a reason you used Z to power the laser, but have you
> considered wiring the laser to a spindle speed output?  then you wouldnt
> have to be programming moves in Z in order to power the laser (at least
> thats how it seems it works to me?) then you just connect the spindle speed
> as read from the program to a scale if necessary then to the pwmgen.  then
> instead of moving Z you could use m03 s to set power, 0 to 100 would be
> simple for a percent power setting, or if you scale it to the laser's mw,
> you could program by that.
>
> just some ideas, sorry i hav nothing to contribute about what you really
> asked about
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] EMC 2.2.7 + 7i43 + Ted's sample, and same error than using EMC 2.2.6 + 7i43 + Ted's sample.... What now?

[Jim Coleman]

>> Without seeing what's happening on your computer, we can not help.
>> Do what produces the error, then pastebin the dmesg output and any other
>> relevant logs, then email us the pastebin URL.
>>
>
> HAVE POSTED THE MESSAGES SEVERAL TIMES ¿SHOULD I POST AGAIN WHAT I
> POSTED ALREADY?
>
> cmon...!!

Richard, I think there might be a misunderstanding.  Every time that emc
crashes, it creates a dmesg file that tells what was going on and what
happened when it crashed.  the guys that are way better than I am can look
at this info and figure out what to do to fix the crashes.  Every time
something is different and it crashes with different errors, the dmesg will
be different telling what's going on.  so every time progress is made, we
(more like the other guys, wish i could personally help) will need a new
dmesg and copies of the current configurations being used in order to see
everything that is being done by the computer and where things go wrong.
Hope I'm able to help you and your situation, I just got an M5i20 card and
7i33, working on drawing and programming a board to go from 50 pin header on
7i33 to screw terminals to the wiring in the machine.

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 7:54 PM, Richard Acosta  wrote:

> El 21/12/2008 05:42 p.m., John Kasunich escribió:
> > Stuart Stevenson wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 1:01 PM, Richard Acosta 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Is nothing about lazyness... is about being tired of to do something
> >>> that is supossed to work.. and it does not! again and again and again.
> >>>
> >>> When going your lazy path i got the following two messages.
> >>>
> >>> "Acercar linea 10 en /usr/shareaxis/images/axis.ngc: bad character "x"
> used"
> >>>
> >> this message tells you there is something wrong near line 10 of the
> file:
> >> /usr/shareaxis/images/axis.ngc
> >>
> >> it even tells you what is wrong:
> >> bad character "x" used
> >>
> >> your response to this should be:
> >> open the file with an editor and look for an "x" character on or near
> line 10
> >> if you cannot figure out what the error is then post a copy of a few
> >> lines prior and a few lines past
> >>
> >> someone will try to help you
> >> people are trying to help you now - they just don't have enough
> information
> >>
> >
> > Something is fishy here though - isn't axis.ngc the EMC2 splash screen
> > program?  Hundreds of users are loading that g-code file every time they
> > start EMC, and it isn't causing errors.
> >
> > Also, "X" is a perfectly legitimate character in g-code.
> >
> > Stuart is exactly correct in that the proper action is to READ the
> > message, THINK about what it means, and LOOK for the cause of the
> problem.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > John Kasunich
> >
> I didn't wrote that file!!!
> it comes with the last install of EMC2 wich was suppossed to be working
> on a lazy path and a couple of clicks as i did this time.
>
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Re: [Emc-users] latency-test Results .avi makes the numbers huge

[Jim Coleman]

you might look for different video drivers?  I dont know what chipset you
have or if its onboard or a card or what, but maybe it would affect cpu
usage to play the video?

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 10:39 PM, Jeff Epler  wrote:

> After identifying things that cause large latencies, one possible
> solution is to simply remember not to do that thing--at least if it's
> something easy to not do, like start viewing a movie.
>
> One nice thing about servo systems with hardware encoder counting is
> that after a large latency, you'll get a following error but retain
> position.  With steppers, a large latency means you probably stall the
> motors and lose position.
>
> Jeff
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Bad motherboard capacitors?

[Jim Coleman]

If you can replace caps, i dont see why one couldnt build one of these.
Probably turn out cheaper than a commercial unit and be plenty accurate for
most of us troubleshooting.
http://ludens.cl/Electron/esr/esr.html

On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 8:35 PM, Greg Michalski <
emc2usrl...@distinctperspectives.com> wrote:

> My experience has I admit been limited but useful for my purposes.  I see
> the math though of your tool and appreciate its importance - learned
> something today :)  Thanks!
>
> Greg
> www.distinctperspectives.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:gene.hesk...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 2:27 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Bad motherboard capacitors?
>
> On Sunday 28 December 2008, Greg Michalski wrote:
> >I've repaired no less than 2 dozen MOBOs of varying brands (Soyo, MSI,
> Tyan,
> >Dell, etc.) that all were simply in need of a capacitor or 6.  Never
> >bothered with a kit, just grabbed some from the 'Shack or the junk drawer
> or
> >tacked onto an order to Digi-Key or Mouser.  Easiest way to diagnose a bad
> >electrolytic is a bulge on the top of the caps, or in the worst case fluid
> >on or around it.  Most are usually in the power section (usually have a
> >toroid bearby) but some were in varying locations causing the odd
> behaviors
> >you mention.
> >
> >Saved my tail on a MOBO based RAID situation where I'd have most likely
> lost
> >it all if I couldn't have gotten the board up again.  They really aren't
> >hard to replace, get the same MFD value and a voltage rating equal to or
> >higher than the original (hopefully it didn't get too hot and melt the
> >wrapper) and just like any soldering on a multi-layer board that has SMT
> >components nearby, use the finest tip you have and medium heat for minimum
> >time.
> >
> >If it's a dead board then the couple bucks are a no brainer.  If you have
> a
> >decent multi-meter with capacitance metering, remove the suspect unit(s)
> and
> >check to see if they're ok or not.  Got nothing to loose at that stage.
>
> I've not found those types of multimeters to be very informative, Greg.
> They
> will tell you that a cap marked 2200uf is only 1900uf ok, but that isn't
> really germain to what they are supposed to do, and generally, a good 220uf
> would function just as well although the ripple currents would soon destroy
> the smaller valued capacitor.  The multimeter is not looking at the most
> important characteristic of a capacitor, its Equivalent Series Resistance.
>
> The capacitor wizard I've mentioned measures the capacitors ESR, at 100khz,
> using a very low level drive so as not to temporarily heal a failing
> capacitor, in circuit or out as long as the circuit is powered down.
> Anything over .25 ohms in those big boys makes them suspect because they
> are
>
> then allowing high frequency switching noises to stick their head up
> looking
>
> for a bit of logic to screw up.
>
> In terms of keeping the digital stuff at a tv station working, that
> nominally
> $175 I spent for the wizard multiplied my productivity at restoring
> operation
> by a factor of at least 5.  That is something you see as a plus on the P&L
> sheet very easily.
>
> >Good subject to bring up.  Curbside finds are prominent around me because
> no
> >one wants to wait for the biannual county electronics recycling drive to
> >come around so they set them at the curb and usually someone like me comes
> >along and snags them.  $5 in caps can make for a nice Christmas gift to a
> >digitally challenged relative :)
>
> Been there, done that.  :)
>
> >HTH - as always YMMV :)
> >
> >Greg
> >www.distinctperspectives.com
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Kent A. Reed [mailto:knbr...@erols.com]
> >Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 12:14 AM
> >To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >Subject: [Emc-users] Bad motherboard capacitors?
> >
> >Gentle persons:
> >
> >In part because of the need for a parallel port and in part because of
> >the latency-inducing problems that seem to arise more often with recent
> >chipsets, we EMC'ers often seek out older motherboards/cpus.
> >
> >I'm curious to know if anyone has run into the problem of bad capacitors
> >on their older boards, in particular, with Nichicon capacitors. (see,
> >for example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague or
> >
> http://news.cnet.com/PCs-plagued-by-bad-capacitors/2100-1041_3-5942647.html
> )
> >
> >If bad caps always left the system as dead as a Norwegian Blue parrot,
> >then they'd be easy to diagnose. Unfortunately, it is also possible for
> >them to result in various headscratchingly odd behaviors in systems that
> >seem as if they ought to be working, which is tough to diagnose.
> >
> >This problem is by no means found only with Dell Optiplex systems of a
> >certain age, but Dell sold or leased so many to businesses that they're
> >statistically the most likely brand to be bitched about.
> >
> >I know several on this list 

Re: [Emc-users] Live boot from a USB stick, are there issues with running EMC?

[Jim Coleman]

I have no idea if this would be feasible, but would it be possible to load
the contents of the flash drive to a ram drive before booting, then boot
from that?  It would take a while copying the flash to ram, but after that
it should have more bandwidth than the fastest SATA drives even on a RAID
0.  Again, I'm a complete noob when it comes to boot time and kernel stuff.
If I were to guess I'd say it'd probably be done before grub somehow, the
way bootable CDs can boot to a menu before booting to a hard drive.

Just some ideas to consider
Jim

On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 1:29 PM, sam sokolik  wrote:

> It depends on the motherboard hardware.  Some motherboards work just
> fine with usb memory sticks plugged in.
>
> sam
>
> Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Monday 19 January 2009, Renewables Not Reactors wrote:
> >
> >> Can EMC be used from a USB boot stick?
> >>
> >>
> > I'd say no based on having a 64 meg key plugged in creates astronomical
> lags
> > every 5 seconds here.
> >
> >
>
>
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[Emc-users] OT: heavy steel for sale in ohio

[Jim Coleman]

Hey everyone, long story short my employer is replacing a hitachi seiki
VA-45 vertical mill, and would like to sell it.  Boss said he is willing to
part it out or sell whole, and i suggested that someone on the mailing list
might be interested in it for a retrofit.  The machine is still operating
with the original fanuc control and is still in service, but is having a
problem with drifting about .010 after an hour of running, .020 after an
hour and a half.  Basically we've been shutting down and restarting the
machine every hour to keep the parts within tolerance.

The machine has fanuc DC servos, but they might be pulled off and the
machine sold without servos or amps, but the VFD and spindle will still be
original and in tact.  Also has tool changer, coolant, chip auger, full
shields...  it looks similar to the mazak that was retrofitted at fest.

The buyer of the machine would be responsible for getting the machine from
the parking lot of the shop to wherever they'll be taking it.  If interested
I could find the contact info for the local place that has unloaded the new
haas's from the trucks for us, but as I recall it was a few hundred dollars
to move the smaller hitachi seiki that I bought over a year ago from them
onto a trailer.  I would buy this machine too, but I'm wayy too broke and
already have one retrofit in progress that's moving very slowly mostly due
to funds and time.

Doing a quick google search, I found this link to a machine that looks
identical, but seems to be missing all of the shielding and coolant tank.
http://www.machineco.com/1899_Mach_Center_Hitachi-Seiki_VA-45.htm
Please keep in mind that the machine has been in service almost daily for 20
years, the paint looks a whole lot worse than the one pictured.  To my
knowledge backlash isnt a problem, but at the same time I've never seen this
machine mill a circle to show how bad it really is.  I should be able to get
some pictures monday if anyone wants to see it.

If interested contact me and I can relay info / phone numbers.  I'm not sure
what he's looking to get out of it, when he brought it up to me he mentioned
Ebay, so I'm pretty sure any reasonable offer will be considered.  I'm
hoping to see someone get this and retrofit it, It would be good to see
another machine like the mazak for people to reference :-D

I nearly forgot to mention WHERE in ohio, it's in Mansfield ohio, 44902,
just off of state rt. 13.  It's maybe a little closer to cleveland than
columbus, but its in between them.

If you have any questions, please ask away and i'll try to answer them the
best I can.

Jim
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Re: [Emc-users] EMC2 Lathe

[Jim Coleman]

Is your spindle on your left hand side when you're standing next to the
machine?  to my knowledge that's how all lathes are usually set up, with
headstock on left and tailstock on right.

On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 12:30 AM, Len Shelton  wrote:

> >> I'm pretty sure you will find it the other way
> >> around- X is the cross slide,  Z longitudinal
>
> Cool - that clears up a lot. Now how can I rotate the Axis display and keys
> to match how I stand next to the machine?
>
> >Len
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CNC 101

[Jim Coleman]

EMC can be run on something as simple as single step / direction drive
connected to the parallel port, or as complex as a 5 axis (capable of 9 last
i knew) servo machine with toolchanger and other goodies using a PCI card
for interface.  I guess that in sim mode you can run as simple as it gets,
with NO hardware, just to get a feel for the G code programming and see the
virtual cutter move about in AXIS, one of the user interfaces for EMC.  I
think that with stepconf, setting up a stepper machine shouldnt be a problem
for ya if you're proficient enough with the computer to make it as far as
finding EMC and subscribing to this list.  The hardest part will probably be
finding out the right numbers to use for step length and direction hold and
all those numbers that have to do with how fast your stepper drives can take
pulses.

I dont have any direct links, but if you havnt already, you should poke
around wiki.linuxcnc.org

Hope EMC works out for ya,
Jim

On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Stuart Stevenson  wrote:

> Raymond,
>   My vote is YES - it is worth the effort.
>   After the learning curve the world opens up and you dream of
> impossible things as they are now possible.
> having some fun now
> Stuart
>
> On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 2:29 PM, raymondj  wrote:
> > Greetings,
> >
> >I've been lurking here for a few weeks and I'm starting to wonder if
> I'm
> > in the right place.  I'm looking for a primer to help me understand the
> > recommended or possible hardware configurations that EMC will run.  I
> will
> > be using stepper motors.  I doubt I'll use much of the power of EMC and
> am
> > wondering if the learning curve is too steep to be worth while to gain
> > access to the small portion of EMC I'll find useful.  I am just getting
> > started with CNC as a hobby.
> >
> > Raymond Julian
> > Kettle River, MN.
> >
> >
> >
> --
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> >
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[Emc-users] OT: PMTS 2009 Columbus, Ohio

[Jim Coleman]

Hey everyone, I was just wondering if anyone else from the EMC world would
be attending.

Copied from their site: "The successful *Precision Machining Technology Show
* - North America's only production machining focused show - returns to the
Greater Columbus Convention Center in Columbus, Ohio, April 28-30, 2009. Now
in its fifth edition, PMTS 2009 is projected to be even bigger and better
than ever."

http://www.pmts.com/

Jim
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emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net

[Jim Coleman]

Tripod for the win! :D

On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Tom  wrote:

> Alex Joni  writes:
>
> >
> > > I am a happy camper. ( I will spare you the Youtube videos and
> > > stills this time )
> >
> > Now why would you do that?
> >
>
> LOL!
> (There is only so much you can intelligibly show with only one hand
> on the camera)
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CNC 101

[Jim Coleman]

a 3 axis machine with a probe in the spindle is a 3d scanner :-)  I know
theres been some talk here about probing before, i dont remember any details
tho.

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 1:27 AM, raymondj  wrote:

> Thanks to all who wrote.  I have emc installed on a way...way... too old
> and
> slow computer but I've been playing with it.  I am mostly interested in
> using CNC to make shapes that would be almost impossible to machine by
> hand.
> I assume that will entail many more than 3 axis control.  Can anyone
> recommend a book focused on this type of work.  I hope to have a 3D scanner
> someday.
>
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "raymondj" 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 2:29 PM
> Subject: [Emc-users] CNC 101
>
>
> > Greetings,
> >
> >I've been lurking here for a few weeks and I'm starting to wonder if
> > I'm
> > in the right place.  I'm looking for a primer to help me understand the
> > recommended or possible hardware configurations that EMC will run.  I
> will
> > be using stepper motors.  I doubt I'll use much of the power of EMC and
> am
> > wondering if the learning curve is too steep to be worth while to gain
> > access to the small portion of EMC I'll find useful.  I am just getting
> > started with CNC as a hobby.
> >
> > Raymond Julian
> > Kettle River, MN.
> >
> >
> >
> --
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> > Adobe(R)AIR(TM)
> > software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and
> code
> > to
> > build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of
> > local
> > resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK
> > and
> > Ajax docs to start building applications
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> >
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CNC 101

[Jim Coleman]

"Optional: Automatically stitch several scans/meshes with DAVID-Shapefusion
and export .STL or .PLY"

think it gets 'right' with tons of scans?  im curious to see a scan of a
1-2-3 block and see how true it turns out.

But im glad i have seen this, I think it will probably come in handy.

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Tuesday 10 February 2009, Ádám Novák wrote:
> >Raymond,
> >
> >I have recently finished to set up a 3D scanning system which works just
> >fine. You may be interested in the project:
> >http://www.david-laserscanner.com/
> >
> >I know its based on XP but it is still a cost effective solution compared
> to
> >other industrial 3D scanning systems and gives fairly nice results (click
> on
> >gallery for more).
> >
> >Adam
>
> I wonder how they compensate for the camera parallax?  That would need to
> be
> calibrated anew every time the camera was setup I'd think.
>
> --
> Cheers, Gene
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Fifty flippant frogs
> Walked by on flippered feet
> And with their slime they made the time
> Unnaturally fleet.
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] EMC2 Servo on the cheap

[Jim Coleman]

I'm certainly interested in anything you find for the fadals, my employer
has a few and just recently replaced the cpu board in one which was over
$1000 itself.  they're probably going to be the next to go after the hitachi
seiki gets replaced, they'll be the oldest in the shop after its gone

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Kirk Wallace
wrote:

> On Mon, 2009-02-16 at 10:05 -0600, cogo...@verizon.net wrote:
> > Thanks Kirk , Tom and Jon for the quick replies, and the good
> > suggestions.
> >
> >   The time frame is very loose.  We have a FADAL 4020 that's been
> > doing all we need for years, and another one that's been dead for
> > years.  At the end of last year I mentioned to the machinist that we
> > should probably get another mill running, just to have a backup ...
> > just in case...
> >
> >   About a month later the working FADAL blew a servo drive card.  We
> > were operating on the old hand operated mills in the shop for a week,
> > until we found out that the drive cards, though of different sizes
> > between the two machines, were compatible.
> >
> >   The FADAL that's not working has an issue either with the tach, or
> > the resolver, and with this economy we don't want to just throw money
> > at the problem.
> >
> >   We are also a little slow with work right now, so if I can do
> > something with the spare time I have, that would be good.
> >
> >   If we were in a booming economy, I'd probably suggest getting 3
> > Viper drives, 3 expensive quadrature encoders, and a MESA 5i20 card;
> > but we're not in a booming economy.
>
> I think the FADAL's are also good candidates for EMC conversion. Having
> an idle machine to work on is a big plus. You might consider just
> getting one axis working to get started. Posting pictures of your
> Shizuoka and FADAL would help us provide more information.
>
> One advantage on converting one or both FADAL's is that there are allot
> of them out there. Just like your company, other companies are probably
> looking at repairing an old mill instead of buying a new one. If you
> develop an inexpensive FADAL conversion, you can expand your business.
> If you need help, I suspect that one or more people might be available
> (hint). The only unknown I can think of right now, is the tool changer
> which probably just needs a few digital IO pins and a short C or Classic
> Ladder program.
>
> If I had a vote, I would replace everything up to the axis motors with
> new parts that could be second sourced. When I started out working in
> technology, second sourcing was a big deal, somehow, as companies and as
> a nation we got away from this. You don't need expensive smart motion
> controller/motor drivers. EMC does first class motion control, so all
> you need is a dumb driver. A big advantage to having EMC do all of the
> motion control is that you can use HALscope for tuning and
> troubleshooting:
>
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?PWM_Servo_Amplifiers
>
> US Digital can provide encoder disks and sensors that allow you to refit
> to your current sensor locations. Their 2500 line (10,000 count) disks
> should provide more than enough resolution.
>
> To help offset the cost, you can probably make a fair amount selling the
> usable leftovers from the Bandit and the FADAL.
>
> If you are concerned about EMC, here is an example of size not being an
> issue with EMC:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxxdq6y8z8M
>
> (see Big Iron in:
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Videos
> )
> -
> Kirk
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
>
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Cheap VFD

[Jim Coleman]

At the risk of sounding like an idiot...  what's an RCD? I'm guessing it's
along the liens of GFCI, but don't recall ever seeing the term.

Thanks,
Jim

On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 2:25 PM, Dave  wrote:

> On 10/3/2011 1:03 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> > On 3 October 2011 17:53, Dave  wrote:
> >
> >
> >> I thought that EU standards dictated the use of input side filters.. yet
> >> they trip your RCDs..  so how does that work in real life?
> >>
> >> Are RCDs not required in factories?
> >>
> > RCDs are not required on outlets>20A rated, or those to be used by
> > trained operators.
> > (According to a cursory read of a poster in TLC)
> >
> >
>
> >>or those to be used by trained operators.
>
> That is interesting.  I don't think that we have any rules based on the
> skill of the person using the outlet.
> I think they tend to assume that everyone is of the same mental means in
> the US, one notch above an idiot.  ;-)
>
> Dave
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] plea for help tuning a servo system in Ann Arbor area

[Jim Coleman]

At my employer, cutting with a 200A plasma torch running liquid oxygen, we
don't cut faster than 160 IPM or so.  This is cutting mild steel from .060
to 1".  I'm usually the shear / brake press guy, but I've ran the burn table
a number of times.  I've wondered if our cutting rates are ideal, but
they've been using them for years now.  Not sure if this'll be useful or
not, these are the people who run the bandsaw at arount 330 IPM surface
speed and run the drill press at it's highest speed(900 RPM) for every size
drill they use.  And I don't know what I'm talkin about when I suggest
different.  Guess this turned into a bit of a vent.  Sorry about that.

Jim Coleman
On Oct 20, 2011 7:07 PM, "Dave"  wrote:

> Thanks for looking anyway.  :-)  My mistake.
>
> Dave
>
> On 10/20/2011 2:17 PM, John Thornton wrote:
> > Ok, nevermind my last reply...
> >
> > John
> >
> > On 10/20/2011 11:33 AM, Dave wrote:
> >
> >>>>> John, is there an EMC2 demo configuration using the Mesa THC board
> >>>>>
> >> anywhere?  I thought there used to be one in the Master?, but now I
> >> don't see it.<<
> >>
> >> Forget this request.It was right in front of me named "Plasma-5i20".
> >>
> >> Dave
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 10/20/2011 11:49 AM, Dave wrote:
> >>
> >>> For those who are not familiar with the Hypertherm 1250, that plasma
> >>> cutter is a beast.
> >>> I used one on a production machine cutting large diameter coil springs.
> >>> It is very impressive.
> >>>
> >>> John, is there an EMC2 demo configuration using the Mesa THC board
> >>> anywhere?  I thought there used to be one in the Master?, but now I
> >>> don't see it.
> >>>
> >>> Dave
> >>>
> >>> On 10/20/2011 7:31 AM, John Thornton wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On my Hypertherm 1250 plasma table cut charts I don't see any cut
> speeds
> >>>> higher than 500IPM.
> >>>>
> >>>> John
> >>>>
> >>>> On 10/19/2011 10:22 PM, Tom Easterday wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> We are mainly going to be using a plasma torch so may be cutting at
> 200-1000 ipm (will be based on material and I haven't researched actual
> rates - but should obviously).  We would like rapids to be as fast as
> reasonable, and this was part of the reason for selecting servos at all and
> those motors specifically.  With the current setup we will probably have
> rapids at 2500 ipm.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> --
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> >>> demand for specialized networking skills is growing even more rapidly.
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>
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Re: [Emc-users] stepper power supply

[Jim Coleman]

Gene, was it you I read about building edm power supply from re-wound
microwave oven transformers?  Or was it somebody else who was into the edm
discussion a couple/few years back?
On Dec 29, 2011 1:36 PM, "gene heskett"  wrote:
>
> On Thursday, December 29, 2011 01:10:20 PM kqt4a...@gmail.com did opine:
>
> > On Thu, 29 Dec 2011, gene heskett wrote:
> > > On Thursday, December 29, 2011 10:08:23 AM kqt4a...@gmail.com did
> opine:
> > >> On Thu, 29 Dec 2011, gene heskett wrote:
> > >>> On Thursday, December 29, 2011 09:05:54 AM kqt4a...@gmail.com did
> > >
> > > opine:
> >  Just in case y'all run out of something to ponder
> >  I do not have one of those fancy meters Gene mentioned but I do
> >  have a Kill-A-Watt
> > 
> >  118.7 volts ac
> >  3 motors at rest - 1.15 amps
> >  3 motors running - 1.6 amps
> >  4 motors at rest - 1.43 amps
> >  4 motors running - 1.85 amps
> > 
> >  This is killing my electric bill :)
> > 
> >  Richard
> > >>>
> > >>> Love it, Richard.  I have been meaning to get me one of those
> > >>> critters myself.  Could you elaborate on the size of the motors and
> > >>> the PSU's output voltage?
> > >>
> > >> 1 - Probotix 40VDC 10Amp Linear Power Supply, no manual
> > >
> > > And linear is not as efficient, but far more tolerant of surges.
> > > What did they want for it?
> >
> > $85.95
> > It was an upgrade when I bought a V90
>
> That would make me search my junk box. It is also a bit close to the 42
> volt rating of my new drivers. Rich is not on of the bennies of being
> retired, darnit.
>
> In fact, I may have something I can use now that I think about it.  I
> believe the supplies I use in series for EDM when I need to, could be
> paralleled as the 2 in series make about 80 volts, which when used for
EDM,
> with a 25 ohm limiter and a 10 UF capacitor, work very well but sent me to
> the truck for my rifle range muffs, as it is ring your ears noisy.  Now if
> I can just recall where I got them from because I don't want to tear that
> rig off the wall. I hate it when that happens. :(
>
> > > I'm currently running on a 28 volt switcher
> > > good for 12.5 amps if actively cooled.  42 volt rated drivers, so I
> > > would like to locate a higher voltage (36?)supply.  OTOH, I've only
> > > $30 from All Electronics in this one, which also has 5 and 12 volt
> > > outputs at logic circuit currents.  They are live full time but the
> > > main output is switchable, medical grade stuffs they claim.
> > >
> > >> 3 -
> > >> http://www.probotix.com/index.php?view=product&path=14&product_id=51
> > >> # 280 Oz In. Hybrid
> > >> # 1.8 /200 Steps Per Rev.
> > >> # 3 Amps Current Per Phase (Uni-polar)
> > >> # 8-wire Uni-polar or Bi-polar
> > >> # NEMA 23 Frame
> > >
> > > 262's, 4 wire for XYA, 425 on Z, 8 wire used as 4.
> > >
> > >> 1 - Pacific Scientific Powermax II stepper model P21NRXA-LNF-NS-00
> > >> http://www.electromate.com/db_support/downloads/Nema23PowermaxII.pdf
> > >> 200 steps per rev
> > >> 2.8 amps
> > >> 8-wire
> > >
> > > I think the 28 volts is making the MM-542's run warmer, so a 36 would
> > > be better.  Running at 2.4 amps, could raise that 1 notch I think.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Gene
> > >
> > > --
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>
> Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] stepper power supply

[Jim Coleman]

Ed, do you know how stable the voltage remains across a range of loads from
open to dead short?  Curbside microwaves and some heavy gauge wire sounds a
whole lot cheaper than commercially produced transformers.  1KW at 13.5V
+/- 1.5V could come in handy, but not handy enough for my budget to justify
a commercially available solution.  I also read that transformers are put
under more stress when the secondaries are rectified. I'll need to do some
more reading on this as well.

One last question...  any reason this tecnique couldn't be used for higher
voltages on the secondaries?  Like around 140 to 165V? (Assuming secondary
winding's insulation is adequate)  I'm thinking that transformer isolation
might be safer than running on rectified 110.

Thanks for the food for my thoughts
Jim Coleman

On Dec 30, 2011 1:56 PM, "gene heskett"  wrote:
>
> On Friday, December 30, 2011 01:42:36 PM Ed Nisley did opine:
>
> > On Thu, 2011-12-29 at 21:14 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> > > pointers to the articles
> >
> > That was a series on transformers & triac triggering, with a resistance
> > soldering setup as the McGuffin. CC doesn't put articles online (if you
> > know where to look, go for April/June/August 2008), but I put up some
> > notes a while ago; start at the first post and rummage through the next
> > few days:
> >
> > http://softsolder.com/2010/09/07/resistance-soldering-gizmo-overview/
> >
> > The transformer notes, complete with a B-H curve, may be most useful:
> >
> > http://softsolder.com/2010/09/08/resistance-soldering-transformer/
> >
> > The triac trigger circuitry was *insanely* complex, because I wanted to
> > show what happens during four-quadrant triggering with sub-cycle
> > control. In real life, you'd just fire a triac driver for the entire
> > heating pulse and be done with it.
> >
> > A while back, Eks forced me to take his homebrew water-cooled pulser
> > built around a stack of hockey-puck transistors that he'd been using for
> > EDM. All I need is a bulk supply behind the thing, a bit of Z axis
> > control, and I could sink dies with the best of 'em... [sigh]
>
> Chuckle, thanks for copying the mail Ed.  But that last one will need some
> very good earmuffs, 30db or better if you intend to be in the same
building
> with it.  Of course I had a whole 10" circular saw blade on the table,
> which predictably rang like the bells hell most likely uses for an escape
> alarm bell.  I also was using too big a cap (10 mics, 600 volt, its what
> was on the shelf for spares for a 55 yo GE transmitter & I wasn't being
too
> fussy about whose junkbox shelf I was raiding given that transmitters
> limited 45 day future in mid-May of 2008)  :)
>
> Cheers, Gene
> --
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>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
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>
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Re: [Emc-users] Fest

[Jim Coleman]

I too am curious where it is on the map, makes all the difference of whether
I could come or not.

Jim

On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Matt Shaver  wrote:

> On Sun, 2009-03-15 at 20:34 -0600, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> > I'm pretty sure i'll make it to the Fest, at least the weekend days.
>
> If Sebastian goes, I'll go. I could use some help though; I need to
> convince Steve Stallings to go because then we can split the driving &
> hotel (it's 1200+ miles...)! So if all of you could badger him
> mercilessly from now on, that would be great!
>
> Thanks,
> Matt
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Fest

[Jim Coleman]

I guess spring is a happenin' time for shows, I'm goin to PMTS 2009 in
columbus on april 28th.

Fest looks like it'll be around 900 miles for me, quite a drive in cars that
make me nervous driving an hour away to columbus.  but it does look like
it'd be prett simple to get there, 71 to 70 west all the way there.  If
anyone coming from the east would like to carpool and split gas costs, I
would certainly enjoy attending, even if all I do is meet everyone and buy a
round of beers (or coffees)

Has anyone contacted local lodging and asked about event discounts?  Just an
idea to save us some money for toys.

Jim

On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:

> John Kasunich wrote:
> > Nope.  There are two threads going on, about two COMPLETELY different
> > events.  The NAMES show is in late April, in Toledo, Ohio.  It is a
> > model engineering show, with some CNC demos.  That is another thread.
> >
> > The "Fest" mentioned in this thread is a much smaller, EMC-only event
> > that Stuart is offering to host at his shop in Wichita, Kansas, in late
> May.
> >
> >
> AHHH!  Brain fart!  Sorry!  I'm kind of focusing on NAMES as it comes up
> in only 4 weeks!
> Fortunately, I'm not trying to make much new to show there.  But,
> several people are trying to put together a pretty impressive EMC booth
> at NAMES this year.
>
> Yes, of course, the EMC Fest is something else, and SOMEPLACE else, and
> will be a much more in DEPTH affair for EMC, and I wouldn't miss it for
> anything.
>
>
> Sorry for causing confusion, and awfully early in the evening for me to
> be so out of it!
>
> Jon
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Linux installation problem

[Jim Coleman]

has it yet been determined that the cd is in fact working and bootable?
I've seen people download the iso with winrar or a similar compression
program installed, see the icon and open and extract the files to a folder,
then burn the dir to a cd.  autorun works, but no bootability.

another issue that i have personally encountered with attempting to boot
from a cd is an older drive being (excessively) slow to read, whether its
from dirty lense or a fading laser diode, whatever... and timing out before
reading the boot info.  since the computer has an 8.4 gig hard drive, I
would guess it's got some age to it.

I dont know if I missed it or if it hasnt been said, but how was the
previous ubuntu installed?  what's different from this time?

hope this might help
Jim

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Ian W. Wright wrote:

> Jon wrote:-
> < partition table
> and the boot sector from the boot partition during the
> self-test, and
> will hang there for a long time if they can't find it.  I
> guess it is a
> stupid timeout waiting for the drive to come on line.  10
> seconds would
> be reasonable, but many BIOS wait for 5 - 20 minutes in this
> condition.
> I usually just wait it out, but if I am going to be powering
> off and on
> a few times before loading software, then I will format the
> first
> partition so I only have to experience the long wait the
> very first time.
>
> When you let the long timeout finally run out, you get a
> message "no
> boot sector found" or similar unless there is a bootable
> floppy or CD
> enabled in the BIOS boot list ahead of the hard drive and in
> the drive.>>
>
> That was really my intention with the suggestion I made -
> boot from a utility floppy and partition the hard drive so
> that it won't wait around looking for partitions - plus, you
> at least have the reassurance that you are doing something
> positive!! We know from Jim's original post that the hard
> drive was working OK in that computer before he scrubbed it
> with DBan, so the problem is not to do with hardware
> compatibility, BIOS etc. etc. - its simply that all the
> partitions and maybe the boot sector have been nuked...
>
> Ian
>
>
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[Emc-users] VMC retrofit candidate in ohio

[Jim Coleman]

Hey everyone, Just wanting to let you guys know that my employer is
going to be scrapping a hitachi seiki VA-45 VMC.  It has a Fanuc 11m
control with Fanuc DC servos.  I know the Z axis servo is a 20M, not
sure on the others.  Machine is 40 taper and has toolchanger, coolant,
chip auger.  The machine was purchased in 1986 IIRC and has remained
with my employer in service until last week.  The Z axis began to give
troubles, machine stopped and in jogging / homing attempts the axis
will sit still then jump .100 or more, then sit again.  I dont know if
it's a problem in the servo amp or the control, the spindle also won't
turn on while it's uncooperative.  After sitting ~20 hours, it will
start up and run fine for an hour or so, I figure as a failing
component somewhere heats up it decides to stop working.

Boss said he might sell it whole or pull the motors, drives and
possibly control to sell seperately.  I know that in the past he's
sold them for near scrap steel prices, but considering the prices he
was quoted for replacement parts, he might sell the motors and
electronics to other people with same machines.  I would think this
would be a great start for an EMC machine either way, and if it had
new servos put on it should be a super-solid machine.  It's sad that
the oldest machine they have has givin the least problems of all of
them, but it's finally getting to the point where no more money can be
put into it.  I havnt personally inquired too much because I already
bought the last one to go, and have nowhere this big beast would fit.

If anyone is interested let me know and I will pass along phone
numbers.  Also, A buyer would be responsible for pickup and transport,
and it's a machine we have to use a ladder to get to the Z motor... so
professional level services will probably be required.

Jim

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Re: [Emc-users] VMC retrofit candidate in ohio

[Jim Coleman]

yeah its like that one, but has plexiglass guards around the front and
a bed to catch chips.  The machine is in Mansfield, Ohio 44902.  Few
minutes south of I-30, maybe 20 minutes north of I-71.

Sorry it took me a few days, just started packing the house up for a
move.  Also, I dont think that I mentioned that I've only seen this
machine cutting aluminum, if that might mean less wear on the
ballscrews than if it were chewing steel all day.  I think the boss
will be trying to get the tooling out of it sometime this week, If
anyone is interested I can let him know so he doesnt get destructive
with it.

Jim

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Kirk Wallace
 wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-05-29 at 06:35 -0400, Jim Coleman wrote:
>> Hey everyone, Just wanting to let you guys know that my employer is
>> going to be scrapping a hitachi seiki VA-45 VMC.  It has a Fanuc 11m
> ... snip
>> If anyone is interested let me know and I will pass along phone
>> numbers.  Also, A buyer would be responsible for pickup and transport,
>> and it's a machine we have to use a ladder to get to the Z motor... so
>> professional level services will probably be required.
>>
>> Jim
>
> It's like this one?
> http://www.machineco.com/1899_Mach_Center_Hitachi-Seiki_VA-45.htm
>
> I didn't find you on the EMC2 map, so what area is the machine?
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Engrave.py cuts deeper and deeper

[Jim Coleman]

I saw you were going to check for slip on the belt drive to your Z
axis, how did that turn out?  also, how much backlash is there in the
screw?  another thing...  the belt is a timing belt, right?  and there
is no possibility of slipping there?

one last thing...  if you suspect the amp on Z might be problematic,
have you swapped it with another axis to see if the problem follows
the amp or stays on Z?

Just some thoughts I had while reading this topic, hopefully you find
your culprit soon.
Jim

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Re: [Emc-users] Question about using a rotary table

[Jim Coleman]

I searched the messages i have from the list, and seen this...  hope
it helps, not sure if something new has been implimented since this
message.

dateMon, Oct 29, 2007 at 5:22 PM
subject Re: [Emc-users] zero motion homing in program
mailing listemc-users.lists.sourceforge.net


Unfortunately, emc doesn't handle the repeating nature of rotational
axes very well.  I feel that the ultimate solution is for an A-axis
traverse move to always move less than one revolution, even if the axis
is "wound up" by a move to A3600.  If this approach is adopted, then
unwinding would be as simple as:
   G0 A0
.. but that's for the future, not for today.

For now, I you can use G92 offsets for this purpose.  If you program
"G92 A0", then the G92 coordinate system offset is modified so that the
current position of the A axis is now called 0.

If you use this method, I recommend adding G92.1 (cancel and zero G92
offsets for all axes) in the preamble of all your gcode files.
Otherwise, the first "G92 A0" in your program will erroneously apply
offsets for other axes that were previously set, even in a previous run
of emc.

Another caveat when using G92 offsets in this way is that if you are
actually at A3599 when you issue "G92 A0", subsequent moves will be
offset by one degree.

Finally, when you use this approach you have to make sure that the
machine coordinate (the "wound up" coordinate) never reaches the limits
set for the A axis in the inifile.

You might also consider using relative coordinates, so that your command
is in effect the number of revolutions to move, rather than the angle to
move to."

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Alan Battersby
 wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> If I make a full turn from 0 to 360 degrees say on the C axis, I want
> then to reset the coordinate system back to angle zero degrees in order
> to save an "unwinding" movement that occurs if I make a rapid move back
> to zero.  For a couple of rotations I could use g54 etc but there is
> obviously a limit to this method. Perhaps I could use g92 but can it be
> cumulatively used over and over again?
>
> I envisage cutting paths which require several depth and width passes
> and this is multiplicative so 3 width passes and 4 depth passes gives 12
> rotations to be unwound when the path is complete in order to go onto
> the next path and that is with the pattern cut in a single rotation. I
> can generate patterns that take up to 20 rotations to complete.
>
> So I am wondering which is the best way of resetting back to the
> original zero position and can I avoid multiple unwindings? On should I
> think in terms of many smaller programs run sequentially?
>
> My apologies If this is an obvious beginners question I admit it I am,
> band I could not see anything obvious in the emc documentation.
>
> Thanks
> Alan
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Just a little off topic, forgive me...

[Jim Coleman]

http://www.david-laserscanner.com/

this might help?

On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Andy Pugh  wrote:
> 2009/12/23 Frank Tkalcevic :
>>
>> Sorry, I can't help you with the digitizing.  What I do for things like that
>> is build up a 3D solid model using a good set of digital calipers,
>
> This has generally been my apprach too, as converting a point cloud to
> surfaces is a fairly non-trivial task.
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Plumbing Parts

[Jim Coleman]

if there was a simple interface where the operator selected from a
menu / dropdown box what threads need to be on each side, load a plug
into the machine and hit go...  it might be pretty feasable.  i think
the problem would be convincing stores to buy the machine as opposed
to ordering loads of fittings to make things work.

reminds me of when i recently replaced brake lines on a family
member's minivan.  I could either buy lots of lines and adaptors, or
some steel line, 4 fittings and a flaring tool.  I passed the decision
to the family member, and they ended up spending more on fittings and
adapters than i would have on the flaring tool.  It sure would have
been nice to have the option of specifying the threads i needed and
have the fittings offed right there on the spot instead of having to
use the adapters and everything.

On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 12:47 PM, Kirk Wallace
 wrote:
> I was at the local hardware store buying brass fittings, of course I had
> to buy three fittings each to get a connector with the two ends that I
> needed. I got to shooting the breeze with the counter person and the
> conversation wandered a bit but an idea came to mind.
>
> I wonder if it would be commercially viable to have an small EMC2 CNC
> machine setup which would use hex and round stock to make standard
> fittings from a customer request, very much like a key machine. It may
> be possible to fit the machine in the same space that would be taken up
> by a decently stocked shelf. No matter what fitting was needed, as long
> as the machine had brass rod, the fitting would be in stock. The chips
> could be recycled and send back as new hex or rounds. I think the major
> issue would be to set up the software so that a typical sales person
> could handle the customer request and monitor the machine. With EMC2's
> tapered threading a steel pipe machine could be set up too. Again the
> software would need to properly prompt a sales person to load the
> machine and check the pipe for proper pipe placement and size. If you
> wanted to get fancy and had the space, the pipe machine could have an
> auto loader with 20 meter lengths of pipe which could be threaded and
> cut to a customer's cut list.
>
> Anyone have thoughts on using an application specific EMC2 in a retail
> setting?
>
> --
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> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
> California, USA
>
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Re: [Emc-users] oddity's galore

[Jim Coleman]

Gene,
Did you have to address latency issues?  Are you using a dual-core cpu
and kernel?

I've considered using this intel pentium-D 2.8ghz comp with an ATI
X-1300 for my EMC machine, but I'm doubting any real gains over the
'old' comp, which is a P4 1.8 (non HT), 512 megs PC133 and 32 meg
nvidia TNT2.  my main influence for thinking of changing is the video
drivers, and the dual core can keep RT and video threads separate.

The machine will be running a mesa 5i20, so I'm not sure how much
latencies will matter.

Thanks,
Jim


On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> Greetings all;
>
> I have, over the last few days while resuscitating my mills computer, seems
> that Antec psu's don't like below freezing temps & it froze to death,
> permanently.  Either that, or my preferred explanation is that Antec psu's
> have a built in timer that kills them 10 days after the warranty runs out.
> That is the 3rd one in 2 years that has done almost exactly that.  So, having
> the shell & psu out of an old 66mhz p1 machine, that 200 watt psu got moved
> to my machine, leaving the shell as just a box with a 4Gb drive & a floppy in
> it.  Raw material.
>
> Anyway, while working on it, I had it hooked up to a 22" samsung hdtv, but
> the tnt card was making noisy, streaky video.  Taking local inventory I came
> across a x-1650 radeon that I had bought for this machine, but it didn't like
> the AGP socket ASUS supply's & refused to even output any video during post
> when it was in this box.
>
> So I though, WTH, this is more card than emc needs, but as it was just
> sitting in the box, why not.  Mind you this is a card with a drives female
> power socket on it, along with a pretty decent cooling fan.   needs more
> power than the boards traces can supply.  Plugged it in & a session with
> dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg and emc was running on a 1920x1050 screen!
>
> Nice and warm today (62F) so I took it back to the shop & plugged in the old
> 17" samsung, which is about as big as I have room to go in that cubby-hole.
> No video, even during post but it acted like it was booting normally, several
> times from a power down.  I hauled the 22" out there and made room enough on
> the tool shelf so that its video cable could each.
>
> Worked so good I double checked the measurements, but like the carpenter who
> cut the board off twice and it was still too short, no way.
>
> Hooked the old crt's cable back up after eyeballing it for bent pins.  None
> of those.  Fired it up, worked, without a reconfigure, and its been working 4
> more power ups since?
>
> snilmerg?  Murphy proving he exists?  DamnifIknow.
>
> That screen is almost too sharp for that old crt, but emc sure looks great on
> it now.  Sweet even. :-)
>
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] Feed override by external input device?

[Jim Coleman]

--snip
>
> One more thing: Is it possible to setup something to make the machine
> (while running an NC programm) move only when the hand wheel is turned
> and at the speed the wheel is turned (i.e. for 1, 0.1 or 0.01 mm per
> click)?
--snip

I too think this would be a handy feature, like you're jogging an axis
+ is moving through the program, turn the wheel back and it goes
backward (or selectable feed hold?) so you can jog through a program
to check clearances etc, instead of turning down the rapid and holding
your finger on the feed hold button.  A bell or whistle to add would
be a beep every new line of code, just so the user knows it finished
one move and could be completely changing directions. or whatever
comes next in the program.  I've only set up and run jobs (at work)
that I already remembered every move / cut it makes, so I dont know if
you'd remember every move a program you just wrote would be making.

Just some thoughts on a feature i've always thought would be really
handy.  I really dont know what would have to be done between the
traj. planner and motion controller.

Jim

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Re: [Emc-users] Automatic Drawbar

[Jim Coleman]

happen to have any sketches or drawings of a cutaway view?  I think that
would help us understand just what's going on inside.



On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Andy Pugh wrote:

> On 30 July 2010 12:31, Erik Christiansen  wrote:
>
> > Unfortunately I don't have working audio on either computer, so I don't
> > know if there are any hints on whether the nipple in the back of the
> > INT30 holder rotates in the grabber, or somehow compressed air gets into
> > a rotating actuator?
>
> There is no audio other than the sound of compressed air.
>
> The drawbar and release cylinder are completely separate, and actually
> have a few mm of clearance between each other most of the time.
> The drawbar consists of the gripper fingers, the outer tube and a
> stack of belville washers that all sit inside the spindle in the place
> of the normal drawbar. This rotates with the spindle.
> On top is the release cylinder, that pushes down on the central rod of
> the drawbar whilst simultaneously pulling up on a collar screwed onto
> the outer tube. This is stationary.
>
> Engaging the release while the spindle was spinning would be bad.
>
> --
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>
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Re: [Emc-users] Wichita fest

[Jim Coleman]

if I have the funds, transportation and time i'd love to come down and
play.  if I can make it I'll bring my big servos and their drives, if anyone
would want to fiddle with them.  I havnt been keeping to close track on what
people are finding on fanuc drives lately.

Jim

On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 5:54 PM, Stuart Stevenson  wrote:

> Gentlemen,
>  I have not heard much about an EMC Fest other than the CNC Workshop. I am
> willing to host a meeting here again this year. I just need a week or two
> notice.
>  I have some projects to be worked on. If someone has a project they need
> some machining done on we have machines to use here.
>  The G&L may still need some development. If we have a meeting scheduled I
> will not work on it until the meeting. I noticed an anomaly on the X axis.
> I
> may need a little work on the marriage between the encoder and scale. I was
> working on the four speed gearbox when I noticed the noise that was teeth
> missing from a gear in the gear box. The gear should be reinstalled by the
> end of next week. It will need some EMC attention then.
>  I have the robot. I purchased mesa cards to do the interface. The mesa set
> up will need some attention. I certainly need some help with the
> programming
> and compilation of the fpga process.
>  The tool changer may not be completed on the Enshu.
>  The Junior needs a retrofit.
>  We could play with the laser tracker to collect geometric data for a
> machine.
>  My geometric compensation kinematics on the Cinci needs to be expanded to
> allow motion past 90 degrees. This will allow me to put EMC on the Viper.
>  I have another project I would like to try. I haven't built anything yet.
> I want to move a hydraulic cylinder using a positive displacement pump on a
> servo motor. The pump would be connected to each end of the cylinder and
> pump oil from one end to the other. The system would be pressurized by a
> separate pump. Thoughts or comments?
>  As of this moment I don't know of anything here that would interfere with
> any scheduled EMC Fest. If we want to do this let's agree on a date have
> some fun.
>  With the Enshu running I will have two machines with the Axis interface
> and two machines with Touchy.
>  Even without an official meeting the shop is open to anyone to come here
> and play (or work a project).
> thanks
> Stuart
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Wichita fest

[Jim Coleman]

my motors are brushed dc servo motor 10M and 20M, yellow caps. dont know the
drives off hand.  machine was built in i believe 86.  the price on the
motors was free and i got paid $10 an hour stripping the machine, so i cant
complain a bit.  I've toyed with the idea of buying the mesa dc servo drives
and just using them with the 5i20 ive had over a year and havnt done
anything with

Jim

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:

> Stuart Stevenson wrote:
> >>
> >>   We just pulled a Fanuc 10/11 off the Enshu. We are using the Fanuc
> drives
> >>
> > and motors for XYZ and spindle. We will be installling PPMC and I/O
> hardware
> > today. I should have the final schematics today. The machine was built in
> > 1985. It should be a good test.
> >
> Wish I was there!  November or thereabouts might work out well for me, I
> don't want to take too
> much vacation time all at once.
>
>
> Jon
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Enshu progress

[Jim Coleman]

thats a nice clean lookin setup.  good job.  I plan on re-using as many of
the honda connectors I have as I can.  did you buy new or re-use?  I've got
a bunch of MR-25L, MR-30L and MR-50Ls from my mill and the one I scrapped
for the employer.  looks like it should be pretty easy o clean up the solder
tabs and reuse them.

On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 10:05 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:

> the Enshu lives again
> I moved the XYZ axes under EMC2 control this afternoon.
> I should be able to work on the I/O config and tuning tomorrow.
> I will post some more pictures.
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Watchdog Sizing

[Jim Coleman]

I like the idea of a dip switch or solder bridges if one doesn't plan on
changing the setting alot and wants to save the cost of the dip switch.
while the pot would be easy to adjust, it's less precise than a truth table
of the dip/bridge positions and the resultant reset timer.

Jim

On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 6:46 AM, Kirk Wallace wrote:

> I'm working on using an ATtiny to watch EMC2's charge pump. The plan is
> to have a count down that gets reset by a charge pump edge. If the
> counter reaches 0, then an alarm pin gets set. The counter reset value
> determines how long the charge pump has to do a reset. I can write code
> with the appropriate value, but if I wanted to make the watchdog watcher
> generic, I should have a way for a user to make the setting on the fly.
> My problem is that I can do this with a dip switch, potentiometer,
> serial or SPI link, or some other way I haven't thought of yet. Does
> anyone have any thoughts on what would be a good way to do this? The
> primary purpose for the watcher is to keep the motor drivers powered
> down until the PC boots and EMC2 is running.
> --
> Kirk Wallace
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
> California, USA
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?

[Jim Coleman]

has anyone done any tweeking of RAM timings past those provided by SPD and
compared latencies?  I've seen a stick of "quality" DDR400 have slower SPD
timings than a cheap-o stick of DDR-400.  I know that in benchmarks the RAM
timing can net quite a bit of improvement.  I have no idea if the intel
boards even have settings to lower the timings, and if they do I'm sure
there'd be differing opinions on stability issues running RAM at tighter
timings than are defined by SPD, but even if the timings do impact
latencies considerably enough, one could look for ram rated by it's
manufacturer for lower timings.

This is just a thought I've had concerning latencies, and I don't recall it
ever being discussed.

Jim
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Re: [Emc-users] Floating plasma torch - asking to share experience

[Jim Coleman]

I know that the big commercial machine I interacted with at my previous job
would run over diamond plate and run it's head up and down to maintain the
distance from the surface without actually touching the surface.  I'm
guessing it had to do with it's current/voltage sensing feedback.  I did
not follow the THC module that the guys here were working on years ago, I'd
bet those threads have alot of info regarding the subject, how it works and
how to implement it. I would think that just riding the surface on a
floating head would be rather stressful to the mechanisms involved.  Then
again I doubt you'll want your machine to be running every possible second
it can, 10 hours a day 5 days a week.

Jim

On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 1:20 AM, Marius Liebenberg
wrote:

> I dont think your idea is a good practical idee for a production
> machine. The torch does touch off thousands of times and the loose nuts
> will wear out in no time. There is nothing wrong with a well designed
> floating head and in my opinion it is the best possible pactise to date.
> I do call out service to cnc machines as part of my income and most of
> the problems that I attend to re badly designed or built mechanics on
> machines. Sometimes the electronics are not good but mostly mechanics.
> I will leave you with his idee - Because a thing works once does not
> mean it will work well forever.
>
>
> On 2012/11/10 02:51 AM, Tom Easterday wrote:
> > Perhaps a drawing or something?  I am not following what you are
> proposing.  Sounds like you are talking about having a set up where the
> z-axis ball nut (and hence the whole z-axis) is "sloppy" and can move
> 10-15mm up/down?  While it might work (if that is what you are describing)
> then won't there be a lot of slop in the actual movements of the whole axis
> and won't that effect other movements such as adjustments in response to
> the THC during cutting?  Or perhaps I totally misunderstand what you are
> saying
> > Tom
> >
> > On Nov 9, 2012, at 5:42 PM, Viesturs La-cis wrote:
> >
> >> Hello!
> >>
> >> Little too late but still - I suddenly realized that I need some
> >> provisions for something similar to floating head for plasma torch.
> >> I would like to ask plasma table owners to share their experience, how
> >> they have solved the following issue:
> >> Hypertherm (and most probably other manufacturers' as well) plasma
> >> sources have a signal for cnc controller, when torch has touched the
> >> material, which is used to probe the material surface and then retract
> >> to pierce height. Since decelerating the plasma torch from the moment,
> >> when touch is sensed, takes some time and distance of travel, some
> >> provisions for that extra travel are needed.
> >>
> >> I have seen lots of videos on Youtube with floating torches, but there
> >> are 2 things that keep me reserved about them:
> >> 1) vast majority of them are not used with LinuxCNC
> >> 2) they require additional construction - bearings etc that I would
> like to skip
> >>
> >> So the question is - how do other plasma table owners feel about my
> >> superior invention of non-fixed fixture of Z axis ballscrew nut:
> >> The basic concept is something like this - motor and ballscrew is
> >> attached to Z axis, ballscrew nut is attached to Y axis. And I thought
> >> that I could leave the screws, holding the ballscrew nut in place,
> >> turned (sorry, I do not know the correct word for that) so that they
> >> allow for something like 10 mm free travel of nut to accommodate the
> >> deceleration distance. What I mean here is to have the Z axis balscrew
> >> nut to lay on its support plate, have screws in place that do not
> >> allow it to rotate, but that allow it to move extra 10-15 mm for the
> >> situations, when torch has touched material and is not supposed to
> >> move further in -Z direction.
> >>
> >> The question is - has anyone ever attempted something similar and are
> >> there any potential issues that I am running into? I am not sure that
> >> the nut will be so eager to slide along those screws and that the
> >> whole concept would generally fail...
> >>
> >> --
> >> Viesturs
> >>
> >> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> >> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
> >>
> >>
> --
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> >
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>
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Re: [Emc-users] Floating plasma torch - asking to share experience

[Jim Coleman]

Is the reason behind the floating head so there won't be damage if the head
hits an object while cutting, like a warped part sticking up?  I'm having
trouble grasping why it's needed.  Again, I have very little experience
with plasma tables, being limited to the one machine my former employer
had.  That machine had a "rigid" Z axis with the plasma torch coupled with
a device that used air pressure to hold the assembly in place.  If the head
crashed into a raised part, it would knock the 2 parts off from each other
and the torch side would fall loose within the constraints of the other
side of the housing and trigger an error on the control.  To reset the head
you had to pull it outward and lift slightly to reform the seal and the
head would stick back in place.  It took some tries before getting it to
seal and stick, before you developed "the touch".  The mechanism was maybe
4 inches square, with the joining interface itself appearing to be round.
A very similar machine can be seen at
http://www.plasma-automation.com/mod_fabricatorHD.html and the page has a
link to a slightly better image of their "collision protection" but they
don't seem to provide many details.  When the machine touched off, it
appeared to use some form of conductivity to probe the surface.  Holding a
piece of steel off of the surface of the table and letting the head touch
it wouldn't trigger the probe, until it pushed the steel down to the
surface of the table.  If it was strictly capacitance based, it seems it
would trigger as soon as it touched, unless a human body holding onto a
piece of scrap doesn't have enough capacitance to set it off.

I'm sorry if I'm completely missing the point of wanting the floating head,
I'm trying to comprehend the need.  At first I thought the intention was
for the head to just ride the surface of the workpiece and not use THC, but
now I see that THC is to be implemented for cut height so I'm a little
lost.  Unless the float will replace the need for an electronic probing.  I
hope someone can clear up my confusion, and sorry if all of this is
irrelevant.

Jim

On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 7:17 AM, andy pugh  wrote:

> On 12 November 2012 11:32, Les Newell  wrote:
>
> > I have been thinking about this for some time and a while back I came up
> > with a very different design to all of the others I have seen. First of
> > all, you don't need or want a ball screw on Z. Z doesn't need to be
> > hugely accurate. It needs reasonable resolution and it needs to be dirt
> > resistant.
>
> Are double-helical racks available? It seems to me that those would
> give good location in a number of degrees of freedom, and allow direct
> stepper control.
> (Google) I can't find any. It would be reasonably expensive to make as
> an injection moulding, though relatively expensive to hob.
>
> --
> atp
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Floating plasma torch - asking to share experience

[Jim Coleman]

Ok so I should have re-read the first message in this thread before sending
that.  I now see the OP is looking for a way to handle the overtravel from
decel on the Z axis after the probe has touched.  I'm guessing that just
probing slow enough to be able to stop quickly is less than desirable
because of the amount of time it will take for probing before every cut.

How far will the head overshoot at probing speed once the probe event
occurs?  Is the machine too rigid to just handle the flexing while the axis
decelerates?  Do people regularly use automated probing on a mill to set
tool length to work surface, or is it only done on a special pad to absorb
any overshoot?  When I worked running Haas and Fadal machines we just
jogged by hand while sliding a gauge block back and forth until it hit snug
to set length offsets, and the Hitachi-Seiki had a special "tool setter"
that was set on the table and the machine probed down to it's surface.  I
would guess there was some give to the surface on that device.

Jim

On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 11:00 AM, Jim Coleman wrote:

> Is the reason behind the floating head so there won't be damage if the
> head hits an object while cutting, like a warped part sticking up?  I'm
> having trouble grasping why it's needed.  Again, I have very little
> experience with plasma tables, being limited to the one machine my former
> employer had.  That machine had a "rigid" Z axis with the plasma torch
> coupled with a device that used air pressure to hold the assembly in
> place.  If the head crashed into a raised part, it would knock the 2 parts
> off from each other and the torch side would fall loose within the
> constraints of the other side of the housing and trigger an error on the
> control.  To reset the head you had to pull it outward and lift slightly to
> reform the seal and the head would stick back in place.  It took some tries
> before getting it to seal and stick, before you developed "the touch".  The
> mechanism was maybe 4 inches square, with the joining interface itself
> appearing to be round.  A very similar machine can be seen at
> http://www.plasma-automation.com/mod_fabricatorHD.html and the page has a
> link to a slightly better image of their "collision protection" but they
> don't seem to provide many details.  When the machine touched off, it
> appeared to use some form of conductivity to probe the surface.  Holding a
> piece of steel off of the surface of the table and letting the head touch
> it wouldn't trigger the probe, until it pushed the steel down to the
> surface of the table.  If it was strictly capacitance based, it seems it
> would trigger as soon as it touched, unless a human body holding onto a
> piece of scrap doesn't have enough capacitance to set it off.
>
> I'm sorry if I'm completely missing the point of wanting the floating
> head, I'm trying to comprehend the need.  At first I thought the intention
> was for the head to just ride the surface of the workpiece and not use THC,
> but now I see that THC is to be implemented for cut height so I'm a little
> lost.  Unless the float will replace the need for an electronic probing.  I
> hope someone can clear up my confusion, and sorry if all of this is
> irrelevant.
>
> Jim
>
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 7:17 AM, andy pugh  wrote:
>
>> On 12 November 2012 11:32, Les Newell  wrote:
>>
>> > I have been thinking about this for some time and a while back I came up
>> > with a very different design to all of the others I have seen. First of
>> > all, you don't need or want a ball screw on Z. Z doesn't need to be
>> > hugely accurate. It needs reasonable resolution and it needs to be dirt
>> > resistant.
>>
>> Are double-helical racks available? It seems to me that those would
>> give good location in a number of degrees of freedom, and allow direct
>> stepper control.
>> (Google) I can't find any. It would be reasonably expensive to make as
>> an injection moulding, though relatively expensive to hob.
>>
>> --
>> atp
>> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
>> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [Emc-users] Floating plasma torch - asking to share experience

[Jim Coleman]

What about, instead of it actually floating, if you were to soften the
structure a little so it could handle the impact of hitting on the probe
operation?  I'm envisioning the torch mounted on rubber standoffs
resembling the body mounts to a car.  I'd think they could allow enough
flex to keep from breaking stuff, but be rigid enough for accurate cutting,
as accurate as plasma can be.  Again I'm not all that familiar with plasma
tables and their results, I know that the one I ran occasionally and bent
parts from every day, would be doing great to give 1/16 inch repeatability
cutting 13g steel.

Jim

On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 11:14 AM, andy pugh  wrote:

> How I would do it:
>
> Use a trapezoidal screw and a delrin nut.
>
> Allow the nut to float axially in its housing, with a microswitch to
> detect when it has moved.
>
> Normally the head hangs on the nut. When the head touches then the nut
> slides down in its housing, operating the microswitch. (Use the probe
> G-code)
> back off to the required height + the known actuation distance and
> start the arc.
>
> I think I would use a leaf-spring suspension to supply the required
> angular constraint on the nut.
>
> --
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> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Floating plasma torch - asking to share experience

[Jim Coleman]

I like it when pros weigh in.  The machine I used (it was in a production
environment) didn't have any floating mechanism that I could see, but then
again I wasn't at all impressed by that machine.  It's homing sequence
would get you within a repeatability of 2 inches or so in both X and Y,
resuming a stopped cut was a headache of rehoming over and over till it
chose the right spot.  I do wish I had experience with a machine of higher
quality, I'd probably think better of plasma tables.  I developed a disdain
for it, having to bend the parts and keep holes located consistently
relative to a bends, and keep overall part widths consistent while bending
with opposite sides of the burnt parts against the press' stops.

Jim

On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 12:06 PM, Marius Liebenberg
wrote:

> I concur with Andy. Some of us use plasma cutter on a daily basis in
> production and some of us (Me) do consultation to sort out machine
> problems on a daily basis. From experience and seeing many good and many
> bad machines, the best production solution is a floating head that will
> detach when run into a job.
> I have seen many alternative solutions that all end up being scraped and
> redone to floating head.
> It is my opinion that the only good and maybe better alternative is the
> capacitive sensing THC system. The simpler the solution the lesser the
> troubles:)
>
>
> On 2012/11/12 06:08 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> > On 12 November 2012 16:00, Jim Coleman  wrote:
> >> Is the reason behind the floating head so there won't be damage if the
> head
> >> hits an object while cutting, like a warped part sticking up?  I'm
> having
> >> trouble grasping why it's needed.
> > While cutting you can measure the head-to-work distance using the arc
> voltage.
> > However, to start cutting you need to have the head at the correct
> > height then strike the arc.
> >
> > The idea is to use the head as a probe, lower to find the work, raise
> > to the correct height, strike the arc then continue to cut while
> > adjusting height based on arc voltage.
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Nintendo Wii U Controller looks like a natural

[Jim Coleman]

I think this is the thing he's referring to in his first message
http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/wii_u_gamepad_black-580x358.jpg
I hope the site allows hotlinking to the picture

Jim

On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Przemek Klosowski
 wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 1:19 PM, Kent A. Reed wrote:
>
>> Nitendo Wii U
>
>
> Nice find---apparently they'll be available Nov 18 for $49. I wonder how
> long it'll take until people figure out how to root it and/or connect as a
> slave to a Linux box:
>
> http://www.polygon.com/gaming/2012/9/13/3323140/wii-u-pro-controller-price-release-date
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Re: [Emc-users] linuxcnc 3 development whiteboard wiki page

[Jim Coleman]

I think I've seen this sort of function called 'backplot' on machines I've used.

Jim


On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 6:07 PM, Chris Morley
 wrote:
>
>
>
>> From: marcus.thebowm...@virgin.net
>> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 22:50:46 +
>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] linuxcnc 3 development whiteboard wiki page
>>
>> Chris,
>>
>> I can't see the EDIT button on that Whiteboard. I have logged in etc but it 
>> remains Read-only.
>>
>> How about a simple "simulation" button?  That's different from the Cutting 
>> simulation. I envisage the code running and the backplot window showing the 
>> result, without attempting to simulate the real workpiece. That would be a 
>> simulation in the single existing program, rather than a separately compiled 
>> simulation version of LinuxCNC.
>> Click to run in simulation mode; click to run for real.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>
> hmm no idea what the problem is -check again later.
> I will add it for now.
>
> I think that was called dry-run on the Okuma lathe.
> Everything was honoured except actual moment and I/O
> so no coolant or tool changes either.
>
> AFAIK AXIS already sorta does this behind the scene when you load a program.
> That's how it draws the picture and figures out out-of-bounds.
>
> Chris M
>
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