[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Jan 16, 2006, at 3:22 AM, sparaig wrote: > > > Of course, is Buddhism what the Buddha taught? > > Which Buddha? > whichever. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
anonff write to Peter: The experiece was very confusing to have and moreso to describe. If I were the one doing the witnessing, I would experience myself as separate from Being. This was not that. I would be, say, standing and talking to someone, see them, see their mouth moving, hear the words but they seemed puppetlike and along with that I was very aware of them as separate from Beimg and Being seemed pervasive. That's as good as I can describe it. Tom T: It sounds like anon knew He was THAT, at the same time he also knew all this is THAT. When he looked at the apparent other he was not sensing Thou, they or You are THAT. Of course if he knew that All this is THAT he would by nature be willing to include himself in the description as it was happening through his nervous system.. I have heard others describe the inability to know You or thou is THAT. It sounds like it could be Unity on a local or limited scale. One suggestion is to know that the steps do not need to be known in order and that there seems to be a wide variety of how it shows up in peoples lives. I have one friend who can't get any of the I am, thou are or this is THAT. WHat lites him up is when he knows THAT IS. This is his experience and though it seems different he has found his way to be comfortable with how it is for him and not fight what he knows because it doesn't follow the prescribed norms. Enjoy TOm T Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
On Jan 16, 2006, at 3:22 AM, sparaig wrote:Of course, is Buddhism what the Buddha taught? Which Buddha? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mrfishey2001" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > "Any idiot who had only read "Buddhism For Dummies" > > (and yes, there is such a book, and strangely enough > > it's actually pretty good) could come up with a dozen > > things in Bevan's talk that indicate he has never even > > read that much about the subject, or if he has, he was > > too involved in projecting Maharishi's ideas *onto* the > > subject to understand what the subject was." > > > > > > It is considered good practice when writing criticism to first > > establish a credible foundation. Citing "Buddhism For Dummies" > > weakens your critique by referencing a text some consider less > > than scholarly. > > Says someone who has obviously never read the > book in question. I was serious; it's actually > very well done, as are many of the books in that > series. I was shocked at how well the editors > put together a concise, accurate overview of > Buddhism. Of course, is Buddhism what the Buddha taught? > > My original point (the quote dredged up from the > archives by Willytex, who is obviously off his > meds again, is mine) was that Bevan, in the talk that > is being referred to, had obviously not even read > "Buddhism for Dummies," or, in my opinion, any- > thing about Buddhism, period. I suspect that, > like many TMers, he just assumed that he knew > all about that path because he practiced TM and > that is "the highest path." Just as you assumed > that it was Ok to trash a book you've never read > because of its pop-culture title. Elitists tend > to think alike. :-) > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mrfishey2001" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > "...Just as you assumed that it was Ok to trash a book > you've never read because of its pop-culture title. > Elitists tend to think alike." > > My heavens we ve struck a nerve. How you've divined from the pixels > before you've not read this book is beyond me. Barry is omnicient. He can tell all sorts of things about strangers just by a short post: their motivations, inner dynamics, moods, agendas, state of consciousness, intelligence, and many more things. He is totally amazing. We ought to put him on David Lettermen. (No, not the Stupid Pet Tricks segment). Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: "...Just as you assumed that it was Ok to trash a book you've never read because of its pop-culture title. Elitists tend to think alike." My heavens we have struck a nerve. How youÕve divined from the pixels before you that IÕve not read this book is beyond me. The Dummies series is in fact well produced, donÕt recall saying otherwise. I simply suggested that a more believable case might be built using scholarly texts. The work of Robert Thurman, Jey Tsong Khapa Professor of Indo-Tibetan Buddhist Studies at Columbia University is a good place to start. Landaw is a delightful writer; I have a niece in love with his 1996 Prince Siddhartha Coloring Book Ð oh yes, quite serious... IÕd give it another read - something tells me you have a copy laying about, perhaps under your crayons? --- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mrfishey2001" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > "Any idiot who had only read "Buddhism For Dummies" > (and yes, there is such a book, and strangely enough > it's actually pretty good) could come up with a dozen > things in Bevan's talk that indicate he has never even > read that much about the subject, or if he has, he was > too involved in projecting Maharishi's ideas *onto* the > subject to understand what the subject was." > > > It is considered good practice when writing criticism to first > establish a credible foundation. Citing "Buddhism For Dummies" > weakens your critique by referencing a text some consider less > than scholarly. Says someone who has obviously never read the book in question. I was serious; it's actually very well done, as are many of the books in that series. I was shocked at how well the editors put together a concise, accurate overview of Buddhism. My original point (the quote dredged up from the archives by Willytex, who is obviously off his meds again, is mine) was that Bevan, in the talk that is being referred to, had obviously not even read "Buddhism for Dummies," or, in my opinion, any- thing about Buddhism, period. I suspect that, like many TMers, he just assumed that he knew all about that path because he practiced TM and that is "the highest path." Just as you assumed that it was Ok to trash a book you've never read because of its pop-culture title. Elitists tend to think alike. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: "Any idiot who had only read "Buddhism For Dummies" (and yes, there is such a book, and strangely enough it's actually pretty good) could come up with a dozen things in Bevan's talk that indicate he has never even read that much about the subject, or if he has, he was too involved in projecting Maharishi's ideas *onto* the subject to understand what the subject was." It is considered good practice when writing criticism to first establish a credible foundation. Citing "Buddhism For Dummies" weakens your critique by referencing a text some consider less than scholarly. Furthermore, it is doubtful any self-respecting critic would include herself in a group she has just characterized as "idiotic." Your insights may have merit; sadly youÕve undermined any appreciable benefit we might gain from reading them. - Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
TurquoiseB wrote: > But as it turns out I have neither had, nor have > I ever sought, any experience that could in any way be > descried as "there is no me-vs-them, we are all one." > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Sri Bevan Morris to be Mahesh's successor Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Date: Tues, Oct 11 2005 9:20 am http://tinyurl.com/bl838 Any idiot who had only read "Buddhism For Dummies" (and yes, there is such a book, and strangely enough it's actually pretty good) could come up with a dozen things in Bevan's talk that indicate he has never even read that much about the subject, or if he has, he was too involved in projecting Maharishi's ideas *onto* the subject to understand what the subject was. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
TurquoiseB wrote: > The thing I'm still working on is how to improve > my compassion when dealing with skunks. > Heh. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "qntmpkt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- So, you have that "experience" of witnessing. Good, and may I > ask, has this led to a total eradication of suffering in the world? It has allowed me to see Reality, that everything is in balance. Do bad things still happen to people? Yes. By the way, I don't really use the term, 'witnessing' to describe my experience. The term 'witnessing' is more appropriate, imo, to describe CC-type of experience, where the clear distinction between my Self, and what I perceive as my body and senses and outer world, is the hallmark of the experience. My experience now is that my Self permeates my whole world; no concrete distinctions. So that witnessing term doesn't really apply. As I've said before, it is now as if that small kernel of Light within me, nurtured over many years of meditation and contemplation, has turned inside out, naturally. > If not, why not? Everyone as an eternal Being has a choice whether or not they will do good or bad, suffer or not. We all literally create the world we live in. The thought we are having right now is doing this, as solidly as if we were using our hands to build a golden temple, or a sewage treatment plant. Your experience, if that word can be used (since > it's happening to a relative body) leaves one in the dark as to "so > what?"...what are the consequences? The consequences of such an experience are that I am now in touch with Reality 24/7. I no longer live in the past or future. I no longer filter my experiences as I'd like them to be. I no longer make up stories to create a false world that I am more comfortable with. I create most any experience I want to. I have access to my Self during all of my states of consciousness. I naturally like other people a lot more than I used to. Life is also both much fuller, and much simpler. So back to your question about eradicating suffering, it occurs one Being at a time. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Do you treat people as well as you are able to > > treat them, Barry? > > I think he does. He just apparently is severely challenged in that > area. All compassion to him that he might grow in that area. I think he has to have more compassion for himself before he can have compassion for others. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "qntmpkt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > --- So, you have that "experience" of witnessing. Good, > > > and may I ask, has this led to a total eradication of > > > suffering in the world? > > > > > > Is total eradication of suffering in the world the > > only worthy goal to have while living in that world? > > I mean, it's noble and all that, and people have been > > claiming to be pursuing it for eons. But many of those > > same people have been responsible for much of the > > suffering this planet has seen. Might it not be more > > socially responsible to set one's sights a little lower, > > like ferinstance, "Be as happy as I can be and treat > > the people I run into along the Way as well as I am > > able to treat them" and influence the suffering of > > the world that way? :-) > > Do you treat people as well as you are able to > treat them, Barry? I think he does. He just apparently is severely challenged in that area. All compassion to him that he might grow in that area. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "qntmpkt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > --- So, you have that "experience" of witnessing. Good, > > > and may I ask, has this led to a total eradication of > > > suffering in the world? > > > > > > Is total eradication of suffering in the world the > > only worthy goal to have while living in that world? > > I mean, it's noble and all that, and people have been > > claiming to be pursuing it for eons. But many of those > > same people have been responsible for much of the > > suffering this planet has seen. Might it not be more > > socially responsible to set one's sights a little lower, > > like ferinstance, "Be as happy as I can be and treat > > the people I run into along the Way as well as I am > > able to treat them" and influence the suffering of > > the world that way? :-) > > Do you treat people as well as you are able to > treat them, Barry? Absolutely. The thing I'm still working on is how to improve my compassion when dealing with skunks. :-) :-) :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "qntmpkt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- So, you have that "experience" of witnessing. Good, > > and may I ask, has this led to a total eradication of > > suffering in the world? > > > Is total eradication of suffering in the world the > only worthy goal to have while living in that world? > I mean, it's noble and all that, and people have been > claiming to be pursuing it for eons. But many of those > same people have been responsible for much of the > suffering this planet has seen. Might it not be more > socially responsible to set one's sights a little lower, > like ferinstance, "Be as happy as I can be and treat > the people I run into along the Way as well as I am > able to treat them" and influence the suffering of > the world that way? :-) Do you treat people as well as you are able to treat them, Barry? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
Sounds like the perfect duality of CC. There is Self/nothingness/consciousness and then everything else which has this "flat" or false quality to it. As if it isn't real at all. I used to call it the cardboard world. No substance to it. It all hung like a tiny basket within That. --- anonyff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Peter > The experiece was very confusing to have and moreso > to describe. If I > were the one doing the witnessing, I would > experience myself as > separate from Being. This was not that. I would be, > say, standing and > talking to someone, see them, see their mouth > moving, hear the words > but they seemed puppetlike and along with that I was > very aware of > them as separate from Beimg and Being seemed > pervasive. > That's as good as I can describe it. > > > > ]. witnessing --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, > Peter > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- anonyff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I have/had an experience for a few months and on > and > > > off since, that > > > left me baffled and I spoke directly to > Maharishi > > > about it on a coufse > > > back in 1980. My experience was one in which > while I > > > was standing > > > there talking to someone I experienced that they > > > were separate from > > > Being. The way I described it to Maharishi was, > it > > > was as if when I > > > looked at another person I experienced that they > > > were witnessing. > > > > > > Maharishi told me that this was growing Unity > > > consciousness. > > > > Can you detail your experience some more? I don't > > quite understand it. You experienced others as > > "separate from Being" meaning they were outside of > or > > distinct from Self, as if "other"? What do you > mean > > by, ..."that they were witnessing"? > > If I'm understanding your experience correctly, it > > sounds more like growing CC than UC, but I'll wait > for > > your response ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, > "authfriend" > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, > TurquoiseB > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, > > > "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, > > > TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > The first is that I am > > > > > > > *immensely* grateful that, unlike them, > I > > > have had my own > > > > > > > experiences of enlightenment > > > > > > > > > > > > But apparently not the "There is no > > > me-versus-them, > > > > > > we-are-all one"-experience... > > > > > > > > > > Actually, even though it's being asked by > the > > > Judybot, > > > > > I'll deal with this one. :-) > > > > > > > > > > That is correct. I have had quite a few > > > experiences > > > > > that map to what TMers might call 'CC.' I > have > > > had > > > > > other experiences that don't map to anything > > > that has > > > > > *ever* been mentioned in a TM context, but > were > > > pretty > > > > > neat. But as it turns out I have neither > had, > > > nor have > > > > > I ever sought, any experience that could in > any > > > way be > > > > > descried as "there is no me-vs-them, we are > all > > > one." > > > > > > > > > > I suspect that this description has almost > > > nothing to > > > > > do with real experiences of the direct > > > perception of Unity. > > > > > In other words, what I think Judy is > describing > > > is a > > > > > guess, *from the point of view of someone > who > > > hasn't > > > > > even experienced CC*, of what Unity might be > > > like. > > > > > > > > Actually not. Not only is it a frequently > > > reported > > > > experience on this forum (odd that you've > somehow > > > > managed to miss it) and elsewhere, but I've > had it > > > > myself on occasion. I don't know whether it's > a > > > > "direct perception of Unity," but then I > didn't > > > claim > > > > it was. It *is* an experience of perceiving > the > > > Self > > > > in others. > > > > > > > > > Me, I consider her description NewAgeSpeak > at > > > its > > > > > worst, so admit with some *pride* to never > > > having > > > > > experienced anything like it. > > > > > > > > Actually, I'm pretty sure that with a bit of > > > > searching, I could find posts of yours in > which > > > > you've said something very much like this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Carry on... :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ~--> > > > Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured > and > > > poor with hope and healing > > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM > > > > > > > ~-> > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to:
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "qntmpkt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- So, you have that "experience" of witnessing. Good, > and may I ask, has this led to a total eradication of > suffering in the world? Is total eradication of suffering in the world the only worthy goal to have while living in that world? I mean, it's noble and all that, and people have been claiming to be pursuing it for eons. But many of those same people have been responsible for much of the suffering this planet has seen. Might it not be more socially responsible to set one's sights a little lower, like ferinstance, "Be as happy as I can be and treat the people I run into along the Way as well as I am able to treat them" and influence the suffering of the world that way? :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- So, you have that "experience" of witnessing. Good, and may I ask, has this led to a total eradication of suffering in the world? If not, why not? Your experience, if that word can be used (since it's happening to a relative body) leaves one in the dark as to "so what?"...what are the consequences? > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Is Awakening something to be "believed in"? Does what > > > > you believe in have anything to do with becoming > > > > enlightened? > > > > > > Yes, you must absolutely believe in the fact that you can and > > > will gain enlightenment, no matter what happens. Be one > > > pointed on the Goal. > > > > Yup. Either that or don't care about it at all, and > > just live your life as it seems best to you, never > > giving even a thought to enlightenment. Or something > > in between. > > > > The thing is, I've seen all three approaches work. > > I suspect the bottom line is that there are no rules, > > and no single approach that works best for everyone. > > > Absolutely right. Its difficult to put one pointedness into words. > Some would call it a faint intention that is everpresent, but never > entertained on a surface level. Or a near silent momentum growing > towards manifestation. Or a feeling in the heart. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
Peter The experiece was very confusing to have and moreso to describe. If I were the one doing the witnessing, I would experience myself as separate from Being. This was not that. I would be, say, standing and talking to someone, see them, see their mouth moving, hear the words but they seemed puppetlike and along with that I was very aware of them as separate from Beimg and Being seemed pervasive. That's as good as I can describe it. ]. witnessing --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- anonyff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I have/had an experience for a few months and on and > > off since, that > > left me baffled and I spoke directly to Maharishi > > about it on a coufse > > back in 1980. My experience was one in which while I > > was standing > > there talking to someone I experienced that they > > were separate from > > Being. The way I described it to Maharishi was, it > > was as if when I > > looked at another person I experienced that they > > were witnessing. > > > > Maharishi told me that this was growing Unity > > consciousness. > > Can you detail your experience some more? I don't > quite understand it. You experienced others as > "separate from Being" meaning they were outside of or > distinct from Self, as if "other"? What do you mean > by, ..."that they were witnessing"? > If I'm understanding your experience correctly, it > sounds more like growing CC than UC, but I'll wait for > your response ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, > > "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, > > TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > The first is that I am > > > > > > *immensely* grateful that, unlike them, I > > have had my own > > > > > > experiences of enlightenment > > > > > > > > > > But apparently not the "There is no > > me-versus-them, > > > > > we-are-all one"-experience... > > > > > > > > Actually, even though it's being asked by the > > Judybot, > > > > I'll deal with this one. :-) > > > > > > > > That is correct. I have had quite a few > > experiences > > > > that map to what TMers might call 'CC.' I have > > had > > > > other experiences that don't map to anything > > that has > > > > *ever* been mentioned in a TM context, but were > > pretty > > > > neat. But as it turns out I have neither had, > > nor have > > > > I ever sought, any experience that could in any > > way be > > > > descried as "there is no me-vs-them, we are all > > one." > > > > > > > > I suspect that this description has almost > > nothing to > > > > do with real experiences of the direct > > perception of Unity. > > > > In other words, what I think Judy is describing > > is a > > > > guess, *from the point of view of someone who > > hasn't > > > > even experienced CC*, of what Unity might be > > like. > > > > > > Actually not. Not only is it a frequently > > reported > > > experience on this forum (odd that you've somehow > > > managed to miss it) and elsewhere, but I've had it > > > myself on occasion. I don't know whether it's a > > > "direct perception of Unity," but then I didn't > > claim > > > it was. It *is* an experience of perceiving the > > Self > > > in others. > > > > > > > Me, I consider her description NewAgeSpeak at > > its > > > > worst, so admit with some *pride* to never > > having > > > > experienced anything like it. > > > > > > Actually, I'm pretty sure that with a bit of > > > searching, I could find posts of yours in which > > > you've said something very much like this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Carry on... :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ~--> > > Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and > > poor with hope and healing > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM > > > ~-> > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Or go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- anonyff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I have/had an experience for a few months and on and > > off since, that > > left me baffled and I spoke directly to Maharishi > > about it on a coufse > > back in 1980. My experience was one in which while I > > was standing > > there talking to someone I experienced that they > > were separate from > > Being. > The way I described it to Maharishi was, it > > was as if when I > > looked at another person I experienced that they > > were witnessing. > > > > Maharishi told me that this was growing Unity > > consciousness. > > Can you detail your experience some more? I don't > quite understand it. You experienced others as > "separate from Being" meaning they were outside of or > distinct from Self, as if "other"? Its an experience of "seeing" (sensing /knowing) Being / Silence is at the core of anyone and everyone. Its seeing them glide on silence. (I think is what anonff is referring to). > What do you mean > by, ..."that they were witnessing"? Its an experience of "seeing" that the Silence at the core of others is separate from their body, mind, speech and all. It facilitates / invites an appreciation, even a celebration of the other regardless of their outer characteristics. The other may not yet "sse" or "experience" this within themselves. > If I'm understanding your experience correctly, it > sounds more like growing CC than UC, but I'll wait for > your response ! Its seeing silence / Being outside ones own sphere. In others. Not yet in stars and water and the earth. But in some things. Its a beginning. CC is distinct from this, it is "knowing" silence "within", not "outside" in other things. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- anonyff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have/had an experience for a few months and on and > off since, that > left me baffled and I spoke directly to Maharishi > about it on a coufse > back in 1980. My experience was one in which while I > was standing > there talking to someone I experienced that they > were separate from > Being. The way I described it to Maharishi was, it > was as if when I > looked at another person I experienced that they > were witnessing. > > Maharishi told me that this was growing Unity > consciousness. Can you detail your experience some more? I don't quite understand it. You experienced others as "separate from Being" meaning they were outside of or distinct from Self, as if "other"? What do you mean by, ..."that they were witnessing"? If I'm understanding your experience correctly, it sounds more like growing CC than UC, but I'll wait for your response ! > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, > "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, > TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > The first is that I am > > > > > *immensely* grateful that, unlike them, I > have had my own > > > > > experiences of enlightenment > > > > > > > > But apparently not the "There is no > me-versus-them, > > > > we-are-all one"-experience... > > > > > > Actually, even though it's being asked by the > Judybot, > > > I'll deal with this one. :-) > > > > > > That is correct. I have had quite a few > experiences > > > that map to what TMers might call 'CC.' I have > had > > > other experiences that don't map to anything > that has > > > *ever* been mentioned in a TM context, but were > pretty > > > neat. But as it turns out I have neither had, > nor have > > > I ever sought, any experience that could in any > way be > > > descried as "there is no me-vs-them, we are all > one." > > > > > > I suspect that this description has almost > nothing to > > > do with real experiences of the direct > perception of Unity. > > > In other words, what I think Judy is describing > is a > > > guess, *from the point of view of someone who > hasn't > > > even experienced CC*, of what Unity might be > like. > > > > Actually not. Not only is it a frequently > reported > > experience on this forum (odd that you've somehow > > managed to miss it) and elsewhere, but I've had it > > myself on occasion. I don't know whether it's a > > "direct perception of Unity," but then I didn't > claim > > it was. It *is* an experience of perceiving the > Self > > in others. > > > > > Me, I consider her description NewAgeSpeak at > its > > > worst, so admit with some *pride* to never > having > > > experienced anything like it. > > > > Actually, I'm pretty sure that with a bit of > > searching, I could find posts of yours in which > > you've said something very much like this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Carry on... :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ~--> > Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and > poor with hope and healing > http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM > ~-> > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > Is Awakening something to be "believed in"? Does what > > > you believe in have anything to do with becoming > > > enlightened? > > > > Yes, you must absolutely believe in the fact that you can and > > will gain enlightenment, no matter what happens. Be one > > pointed on the Goal. > > Yup. Either that or don't care about it at all, and > just live your life as it seems best to you, never > giving even a thought to enlightenment. Or something > in between. > > The thing is, I've seen all three approaches work. > I suspect the bottom line is that there are no rules, > and no single approach that works best for everyone. > Absolutely right. Its difficult to put one pointedness into words. Some would call it a faint intention that is everpresent, but never entertained on a surface level. Or a near silent momentum growing towards manifestation. Or a feeling in the heart. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
I have/had an experience for a few months and on and off since, that left me baffled and I spoke directly to Maharishi about it on a coufse back in 1980. My experience was one in which while I was standing there talking to someone I experienced that they were separate from Being. The way I described it to Maharishi was, it was as if when I looked at another person I experienced that they were witnessing. Maharishi told me that this was growing Unity consciousness. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > The first is that I am > > > > *immensely* grateful that, unlike them, I have had my own > > > > experiences of enlightenment > > > > > > But apparently not the "There is no me-versus-them, > > > we-are-all one"-experience... > > > > Actually, even though it's being asked by the Judybot, > > I'll deal with this one. :-) > > > > That is correct. I have had quite a few experiences > > that map to what TMers might call 'CC.' I have had > > other experiences that don't map to anything that has > > *ever* been mentioned in a TM context, but were pretty > > neat. But as it turns out I have neither had, nor have > > I ever sought, any experience that could in any way be > > descried as "there is no me-vs-them, we are all one." > > > > I suspect that this description has almost nothing to > > do with real experiences of the direct perception of Unity. > > In other words, what I think Judy is describing is a > > guess, *from the point of view of someone who hasn't > > even experienced CC*, of what Unity might be like. > > Actually not. Not only is it a frequently reported > experience on this forum (odd that you've somehow > managed to miss it) and elsewhere, but I've had it > myself on occasion. I don't know whether it's a > "direct perception of Unity," but then I didn't claim > it was. It *is* an experience of perceiving the Self > in others. > > > Me, I consider her description NewAgeSpeak at its > > worst, so admit with some *pride* to never having > > experienced anything like it. > > Actually, I'm pretty sure that with a bit of > searching, I could find posts of yours in which > you've said something very much like this. > > > > > > > > Carry on... :-) > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In > FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Of course one needs to be aware of the true definition of Assume. > > As I remember the statement goes, When we use that word it makes > > an ass out of me. Thanks for another old forgotten joke. Ha Tom T > > Actually, its Ass out of U and me. AssUme. Interesting that you > misremember it in a way that puts only one person down while the > original was a put down on both parties.. Well, it could be a blazing Brahman thang -- it all being "me" in Unity, that sorta thing. Or maybe "U" just weren't important enough to bother with. Whatever. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Spare egg writes: > Of course, Barry has never denied his intent to laugh AT people. > Rather he has embraced and defended it. Seems a not very difficult > job of mind-reading to assume something, comment on that assumption, > and get CONFIRMATION of that assumption and therefore to continue to > assume that one's original assumption was correct. > > TOm T: > Of course one needs to be aware of the true definition of Assume. As I > remember the statement goes, When we use that word it makes an ass out > of me. Thanks for another old forgotten joke. Ha Tom T > Actually, its Ass out of U and me. AssUme. Interesting that you misremember it in a way that puts only one person down while the original was a put down on both parties.. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > Is Awakening something to be "believed in"? Does what > > you believe in have anything to do with becoming > > enlightened? > > Yes, you must absolutely believe in the fact that you can and will > gain enlightenment, no matter what happens. Be one pointed on the > Goal. That doesn't seem to have been the context, however. I was responding to this from you: That is why he now proclaims that liberation, enlightenment, > Brahman, identifying with the Self, Awakening, etc. are not useful > terms, labels or concepts. Every attempt to have him state what he > *does* believe in just results in his challenging the perception of > the person asking. (Your first sentence isn't what he actually *said*, but that's a different issue.) You appeared to be suggesting that he should hold beliefs about the *nature* of Awakening, not that he should believe such a thing was possible. > > > OK akashanon, you, unlike all of the spiritual teachers in the > > > world, have declared the very concept of Awakening as invalid; > that > > > there can be no legitimate transition between ignorance and > > > Awakening, that all we can apparently hope for is some small, > > > incremental experiences of expanding our awareness, maybe, and > that > > > no phase transition occurs between one state, ignorance, and > > > liberation, enlightenment, Brahman, identifying with the Self, > > > Awakening, etc. > > > > Boy, that isn't what I understand him to be saying. > > > Si? Que? I don't recognize what you write above as being any of the points he made. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > Is Awakening something to be "believed in"? Does what > > you believe in have anything to do with becoming > > enlightened? > > Yes, you must absolutely believe in the fact that you can and > will gain enlightenment, no matter what happens. Be one > pointed on the Goal. Yup. Either that or don't care about it at all, and just live your life as it seems best to you, never giving even a thought to enlightenment. Or something in between. The thing is, I've seen all three approaches work. I suspect the bottom line is that there are no rules, and no single approach that works best for everyone. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is Awakening something to be "believed in"? Does what > you believe in have anything to do with becoming > enlightened? Yes, you must absolutely believe in the fact that you can and will gain enlightenment, no matter what happens. Be one pointed on the Goal. > > > OK akashanon, you, unlike all of the spiritual teachers in the > > world, have declared the very concept of Awakening as invalid; that > > there can be no legitimate transition between ignorance and > > Awakening, that all we can apparently hope for is some small, > > incremental experiences of expanding our awareness, maybe, and that > > no phase transition occurs between one state, ignorance, and > > liberation, enlightenment, Brahman, identifying with the Self, > > Awakening, etc. > > Boy, that isn't what I understand him to be saying. > Si? Que? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Never a dull moment in MahaRicky's Yahoovad Gita, where the > > > mahafuckyas flow fast and furious. > > > > > A couple of question for you: > > 1. what is the natural dynamic being expressed as the result of the > > above? > > The ridiculous pseudo-Vedic terminology was burning a hole in my brain > and needed to be released. > > > 2. what is the value of doing this? > > For the pure silliness of it. > > > PS This isn't some bizarre test, > > I dunno... seemed pretty bizarre to me. > > > just honestly curious about your thinking on this... > > Well, there ya have it. How'd I score? > A-plus! Hope you have a great weekend!! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Never a dull moment in MahaRicky's Yahoovad Gita, where the > > > mahafuckyas flow fast and furious. > > > > > A couple of question for you: > > 1. what is the natural dynamic being expressed as the result of the > > above? > > The ridiculous pseudo-Vedic terminology was burning a hole in my brain > and needed to be released. > > > 2. what is the value of doing this? > > For the pure silliness of it. > > > PS This isn't some bizarre test, 108? > > I dunno... seemed pretty bizarre to me. > > > just honestly curious about your thinking on this... > > Well, there ya have it. How'd I score? > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Never a dull moment in MahaRicky's Yahoovad Gita, where the > > mahafuckyas flow fast and furious. > > > A couple of question for you: > 1. what is the natural dynamic being expressed as the result of the > above? The ridiculous pseudo-Vedic terminology was burning a hole in my brain and needed to be released. > 2. what is the value of doing this? For the pure silliness of it. > PS This isn't some bizarre test, I dunno... seemed pretty bizarre to me. > just honestly curious about your thinking on this... Well, there ya have it. How'd I score? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Never a dull moment in MahaRicky's Yahoovad Gita, where the > mahafuckyas flow fast and furious. > A couple of question for you: 1. what is the natural dynamic being expressed as the result of the above? 2. what is the value of doing this? PS This isn't some bizarre test, just honestly curious about your thinking on this... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Jan 13, 2006, at 11:08 AM, jim_flanegin wrote: > > > So, the same with akashanon. > > He actually prefers "Akashic Moose". > for dessert? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > But as it turns out I have neither had, nor have > > > I ever sought, any experience that could in any way be > > > descried as "there is no me-vs-them, we are all one." > > > > > > I suspect that this description has almost nothing to > > > do with real experiences of the direct perception of Unity. > > > In other words, what I think Judy is describing is a > > > guess, *from the point of view of someone who hasn't > > > even experienced CC*, of what Unity might be like. > > > Me, I consider her description NewAgeSpeak at its > > > worst, > > > > Tom T: > > As Neil DOnald Walsh once wrote, "there is only one of US". Once > > awakening occurs that is one of the basic understandings that is > > unadvoidable. Given that an awake person "gets" or "groks" THAT, > > then there is no differrence between being laughed at or with. > > As a matter of fact it just becomes another opportunity to just > > laugh at the craziness inside the monkey house and out. Laughter > > is just laughter. No Attack. No Attacker. Just me and the other > > me rolling on the floor whooping it up. TOm T > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/85017 > > > > Interesting hypothesis Barry. Maybe Tom Traynor is "someone who > > hasn't even experienced CC*, of what Unity might be like." > In other words, what you're trying to do is claim > that if any two people say that they've experienced > awakening or enlightenment or *whatever* one chooses > to call it, and they don't AGREE with each other, > something is not right. Did I get your basic thesis? um, if they describe mutually exclusive attributes of enlightenment, and describe mutually exclusive experiences of E., yes, I am skeptical that they are talking about the same thing. You don't? Also when I see self-proclaimed E. steeped cognitive errors and hallucination, one even claiming that NOT making cognitive errors is a characteristic of E, I get a bit skeptical that they are not making cognitive errors in interpreting their experiences. And because of the above, I doubt the value of the label of enlightenment? > Well, I'm suggesting that your basic thesis is a > rather dimwitted, simplistic view of a far more > complicated reality, Well, I grant you that I hold you quite well qualified to know what dimwittedness is all about. :) An expert witness. > and that you choose to believe > the dimwitted view because your time > has made you intellectually lazy and taught you to > settle for consistent, easy answers. But in your time with him, you were immune? And you know my educatioanal, work and life experience in the almost 30 years since I saw MMY. And you know this had no effect on my so-called mmy induced "dimwittedness"? HAHAHAHAHAHA. Keep it up Barry. I don't mind the bloody fist from pounding the floor in laughter. You are such a trip! > And if settling for consistent, easy answers makes > you happy, I say more power to you. Good deal. I > wish you the best of luck with that. And where did I say I sought that? You are making more cognitive errors, barry. Still having that flashback problem? > Me, I'd rather have experiences than spout theories > about them, ME TOO! We finally have something in common!. But who is that voice in your head that says I like to spout theories. Fire him. He is way drunk. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > But as it turns out I have neither had, nor have > > > I ever sought, any experience that could in any way be > > > descried as "there is no me-vs-them, we are all one." > > > > > > I suspect that this description has almost nothing to > > > do with real experiences of the direct perception of Unity. > > > In other words, what I think Judy is describing is a > > > guess, *from the point of view of someone who hasn't > > > even experienced CC*, of what Unity might be like. > > > Me, I consider her description NewAgeSpeak at its > > > worst, > > > > Tom T: > > As Neil DOnald Walsh once wrote, "there is only one of US". Once > > awakening occurs that is one of the basic understandings that is > > unadvoidable. Given that an awake person "gets" or "groks" THAT, > > then there is no differrence between being laughed at or with. > > As a matter of fact it just becomes another opportunity to just > > laugh at the craziness inside the monkey house and out. Laughter > > is just laughter. No Attack. No Attacker. Just me and the other > > me rolling on the floor whooping it up. TOm T > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/85017 > > > > Interesting hypothesis Barry. Maybe Tom Traynor is "someone who > > hasn't even experienced CC*, of what Unity might be like." > > Or, he has his way of expressing things, Neil Donald > Walsh has his, and I have mine, and *none* of them > has anything whatsoever to do with Judy's NewAgeSpeak. :-) Well, yes, it does, actually. I was thinking specifically of what Tom had just said, quoted above. "There is only one of US" seems to me pretty similar to my paraphrase "There is no me-vs.-them, we are all one." > I'm not responsible for how Tom describes his exper- > iences and interprets them, I'm not responsible for > how this Walsh guy does it, and I'm not responsible > for how you react when you hear any of them. All I'm > responsible for, if I'm silly enough to try to > describe experiences that I *know* can *NEVER* be > expressed in words, is doing the best I can at *that* > inachievable task. But you do appear to consider yourself responsible for inferring what experiences others have and have not had, as well as where they got their descriptions from, and for "proudly" insisting that you have never had such experiences, as if they were somehow beneath you. > In other words, what you're trying to do is claim > that if any two people say that they've experienced > awakening or enlightenment or *whatever* one chooses > to call it, and they don't AGREE with each other, > something is not right. Did I get your basic thesis? I suspect what he's pointing out, and you're avoiding dealing with, is that by rejecting the "There is only one of US" experience as simply someone's idea of what Unity might be like, you're implying that Tom (and the others who have reported this experience) has no experiential knowledge of CC and certainly not of Unity. > Well, I'm suggesting that your basic thesis is a > rather dimwitted, simplistic view of a far more > complicated reality, and that you choose to believe > the dimwitted view because your time with Maharishi > has made you intellectually lazy and taught you to > settle for consistent, easy answers. In fact, as anyone who has read Anon's posts with any attention realizes, settling for consistent, easy answers is about as far from what he's doing as it's possible to be. That's exactly what he's inveighing *against*. > > And if settling for consistent, easy answers makes > you happy, I say more power to you. Good deal. I > wish you the best of luck with that. > > Me, I'd rather have experiences than spout theories > about them, and it's a Friday night, so I'm off to > have a few experiences right now. I leave you to > talk about them. :-) > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > The first is that I am > > > *immensely* grateful that, unlike them, I have had my own > > > experiences of enlightenment > > > > But apparently not the "There is no me-versus-them, > > we-are-all one"-experience... > > Actually, even though it's being asked by the Judybot, > I'll deal with this one. :-) > > That is correct. I have had quite a few experiences > that map to what TMers might call 'CC.' I have had > other experiences that don't map to anything that has > *ever* been mentioned in a TM context, but were pretty > neat. But as it turns out I have neither had, nor have > I ever sought, any experience that could in any way be > descried as "there is no me-vs-them, we are all one." > > I suspect that this description has almost nothing to > do with real experiences of the direct perception of Unity. > In other words, what I think Judy is describing is a > guess, *from the point of view of someone who hasn't > even experienced CC*, of what Unity might be like. Actually not. Not only is it a frequently reported experience on this forum (odd that you've somehow managed to miss it) and elsewhere, but I've had it myself on occasion. I don't know whether it's a "direct perception of Unity," but then I didn't claim it was. It *is* an experience of perceiving the Self in others. > Me, I consider her description NewAgeSpeak at its > worst, so admit with some *pride* to never having > experienced anything like it. Actually, I'm pretty sure that with a bit of searching, I could find posts of yours in which you've said something very much like this. > > Carry on... :-) > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > But as it turns out I have neither had, nor have > > I ever sought, any experience that could in any way be > > descried as "there is no me-vs-them, we are all one." > > > > I suspect that this description has almost nothing to > > do with real experiences of the direct perception of Unity. > > In other words, what I think Judy is describing is a > > guess, *from the point of view of someone who hasn't > > even experienced CC*, of what Unity might be like. > > Me, I consider her description NewAgeSpeak at its > > worst, > > Tom T: > As Neil DOnald Walsh once wrote, "there is only one of US". Once > awakening occurs that is one of the basic understandings that is > unadvoidable. Given that an awake person "gets" or "groks" THAT, > then there is no differrence between being laughed at or with. > As a matter of fact it just becomes another opportunity to just > laugh at the craziness inside the monkey house and out. Laughter > is just laughter. No Attack. No Attacker. Just me and the other > me rolling on the floor whooping it up. TOm T > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/85017 > > Interesting hypothesis Barry. Maybe Tom Traynor is "someone who > hasn't even experienced CC*, of what Unity might be like." Or, he has his way of expressing things, Neil Donald Walsh has his, and I have mine, and *none* of them has anything whatsoever to do with Judy's NewAgeSpeak. :-) I'm not responsible for how Tom describes his exper- iences and interprets them, I'm not responsible for how this Walsh guy does it, and I'm not responsible for how you react when you hear any of them. All I'm responsible for, if I'm silly enough to try to describe experiences that I *know* can *NEVER* be expressed in words, is doing the best I can at *that* inachievable task. In other words, what you're trying to do is claim that if any two people say that they've experienced awakening or enlightenment or *whatever* one chooses to call it, and they don't AGREE with each other, something is not right. Did I get your basic thesis? Well, I'm suggesting that your basic thesis is a rather dimwitted, simplistic view of a far more complicated reality, and that you choose to believe the dimwitted view because your time with Maharishi has made you intellectually lazy and taught you to settle for consistent, easy answers. And if settling for consistent, easy answers makes you happy, I say more power to you. Good deal. I wish you the best of luck with that. Me, I'd rather have experiences than spout theories about them, and it's a Friday night, so I'm off to have a few experiences right now. I leave you to talk about them. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Never a dull moment in MahaRicky's Yahoovad Gita, where the > > > mahafuckyas flow fast and furious. > > > > "Mahafuckyas. Now THAT cracked me right up! > > > > All Glory to Sri Sri Tom T for that one. > Raja of the Mahafuckyas? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Never a dull moment in MahaRicky's Yahoovad Gita, where the > > mahafuckyas flow fast and furious. > > "Mahafuckyas. Now THAT cracked me right up! > All Glory to Sri Sri Tom T for that one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > But as it turns out I have neither had, nor have > I ever sought, any experience that could in any way be > descried as "there is no me-vs-them, we are all one." > > I suspect that this description has almost nothing to > do with real experiences of the direct perception of Unity. > In other words, what I think Judy is describing is a > guess, *from the point of view of someone who hasn't > even experienced CC*, of what Unity might be like. > Me, I consider her description NewAgeSpeak at its > worst, Tom T: As Neil DOnald Walsh once wrote, "there is only one of US". Once awakening occurs that is one of the basic understandings that is unadvoidable. Given that an awake person "gets" or "groks" THAT, then there is no differrence between being laughed at or with. As a matter of fact it just becomes another opportunity to just laugh at the craziness inside the monkey house and out. Laughter is just laughter. No Attack. No Attacker. Just me and the other me rolling on the floor whooping it up. TOm T http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/85017 Interesting hypothesis Barry. Maybe Tom Traynor is "someone who hasn't even experienced CC*, of what Unity might be like." Tom? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > The first is that I am > > *immensely* grateful that, unlike them, I have had my own > > experiences of enlightenment > > But apparently not the "There is no me-versus-them, > we-are-all one"-experience... Actually, even though it's being asked by the Judybot, I'll deal with this one. :-) That is correct. I have had quite a few experiences that map to what TMers might call 'CC.' I have had other experiences that don't map to anything that has *ever* been mentioned in a TM context, but were pretty neat. But as it turns out I have neither had, nor have I ever sought, any experience that could in any way be descried as "there is no me-vs-them, we are all one." I suspect that this description has almost nothing to do with real experiences of the direct perception of Unity. In other words, what I think Judy is describing is a guess, *from the point of view of someone who hasn't even experienced CC*, of what Unity might be like. Me, I consider her description NewAgeSpeak at its worst, so admit with some *pride* to never having experienced anything like it. Carry on... :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, the same with akashanon. The more he challenges what we > who > > > > have Awakened express, the stronger it gets. I don't know > whether > > > > it helps him or not, though... > > > > > > acting out their > > > "I'm in ignorance and proud of it but I'm willing to tell > > > you all about enlightenment anyway" thang here on FFL, > > > > HAHAHAH. If this is not projection, what is!! > > > > You acknowledge you are not "enlightened", yet expound on it > > constantly. "I'm in ignorance and proud of it but I'm willing to > tell > > you all about enlightenment anyway" thang here on FFL," describes > you > > perfectly. Good job. > > > > And more cognitive errors, which is to be expected with posts from > > Barry (and Jim, Tom, etc.) For example, when have I ever said "let > me > > tell you all about enlightenment"? Read my posts. I think E is NOT > a > > useful term, label or concept. > > Akashanon thinks that if he can challenge and equivocate, or > rationalize, every experience he and others report, and keep from > acknowledging that real progress can be made, and that there are > clear milestones for such, he can avoid his painful realization that > all of his seeking has for him come to nought. (of course it hasn't, > but he *thinks* it has...). > > That is why he now proclaims that liberation, enlightenment, > Brahman, identifying with the Self, Awakening, etc. are not useful > terms, labels or concepts. Every attempt to have him state what he > *does* believe in just results in his challenging the perception of > the person asking. Is Awakening something to be "believed in"? Does what you believe in have anything to do with becoming enlightened? > OK akashanon, you, unlike all of the spiritual teachers in the > world, have declared the very concept of Awakening as invalid; that > there can be no legitimate transition between ignorance and > Awakening, that all we can apparently hope for is some small, > incremental experiences of expanding our awareness, maybe, and that > no phase transition occurs between one state, ignorance, and > liberation, enlightenment, Brahman, identifying with the Self, > Awakening, etc. Boy, that isn't what I understand him to be saying. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Oh, I thought Tom said we are all one. Are you contradicting > > him? Or just not walking your talk? > > What makes you think that one person's experiences, > even the experiences of enlightenment, have anything > to do with anyone else's? What makes you think that's what he thinks? He was *asking* you. I make no such assumption. > Tom has had his own experiences, and has his own way > of describing them and interpreting them. I find that > many of them don't map to my own experiences. Yet at > the same time what he says is perfectly valid, and > reflects a perfectly valid set of experiences with > and interpretations of enlightenment. > > If you find all that contradictory, that's just because > you haven't been there, done that. > > But you will, sooner or later. Until then, I reserve > the right to laugh at your posturing. How you feel > about that is probably related to how you feel about > Judy and her relationship to God. *She* obviously > feels that when she says that laughing at someone is > an 'attack,' that's essentially the same as if God > had said it. Wow, talk about *projection*! If you agree with her, you may consider > my ongoing laughing at you as an attack. Or you can > consider it anything you want; it doesn't really affect > me at all. I'm just stuck with laughing at you, because > you're so doggoned laughable. Make of it what you will... > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > The first is that I am > > *immensely* grateful that, unlike them, I have had my own > > experiences of enlightenment > > But apparently not the "There is no me-versus-them, > we-are-all one"-experience... Or the "no-EGO" experience. HAHAHAHAHAHA. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The first is that I am > *immensely* grateful that, unlike them, I have had my own > experiences of enlightenment But apparently not the "There is no me-versus-them, we-are-all one"-experience... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > So, the same with akashanon. The more he challenges what we > who have Awakened express, the stronger it gets. I don't know > whether it helps him or not, though... acting out their > > > "I'm in ignorance and proud of it but I'm willing to tell > > > you all about enlightenment anyway" thang here on FFL, > > > > HAHAHAH. If this is not projection, what is!! You acknowledge you are not "enlightened", yet expound on it constantly. "I'm in ignorance and proud of it but I'm willing to tell > > you all about enlightenment anyway" thang here on FFL," describes > you> > perfectly. Good job. > > > > And more cognitive errors, which is to be expected with posts from > > Barry (and Jim, Tom, etc.) For example, when have I ever said "let > me tell you all about enlightenment"? Read my posts. I think E is NOT a useful term, label or concept. > > Akashanon thinks that if he can challenge and equivocate, or > rationalize, every experience he and others report, and keep from > acknowledging that real progress can be made, and that there are > clear milestones for such, he can avoid his painful realization that > all of his seeking has for him come to nought. (of course it hasn't, > but he *thinks* it has...). Wow Jim. You delusions are increasing at light speed. Which of the following is causing your massive cognitive errors this time: 1)your faulty senses, or 2) your muddled intellect or 3) your darkened heart --- (those being the reasons you listed previously) Just try to find any examples of of these in any of my posts. i) challenge and equivocate, or rationalize, every experience he and others report, what I challenge are: meaningless labels, cognitve errors, contradictions betweens words and actions. I encourage reporting and discussion of experiences. and keep from ii) acknowledging that real progress can't be made, Never said this. iii) and that there are not > clear milestones for such, Never said this. "he can avoid his painful realization that > all of his seeking has for him come to nought. (of course it hasn't, > but he *thinks* it has..." HAHAHAHA. This precious. Projections? I gave up seeking sometime ago. Seeking is a huge vassana. Sooner or later all need to deal with it. > > That is why You are omnicient now too??? > That is why he now proclaims that liberation, enlightenment, > Brahman, identifying with the Self, Awakening, etc. are not useful > terms, labels or concepts. I believe I said that about "enlightenment". You are hallucinating the rest. Flashbacks? Every attempt to have him state what he > *does* believe in just results in his challenging the perception of > the person asking. Read my posts. I have stated many things I believe in. The distrotions in your head are scary jim. > > OK akashanon, you, unlike all of the spiritual teachers in the > world, Wow, now you are hallucinating me as a spiritual teacher. > that > there can be no legitimate transition between ignorance and > Awakening, $100 if you cite a post where i say that hallucinating jim. > that all we can apparently hope for is some small, > incremental experiences of expanding our awareness, maybe, and that > no phase transition occurs between one state, ignorance, and > liberation, enlightenment, Brahman, identifying with the Self, > Awakening, etc. $200 if you cite a post where i say that hallucinating jim. So jim, I hope these and your recent posts, are enough examples of your delusions, halucinations, and large cognitive errors that i) you seek some third party psych appraisal ii) you understand that if you interpret what on the page in black and white with such distortions, that some might be reasonable skeptical of your reports of your interpretations of your experiences. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Never a dull moment in MahaRicky's Yahoovad Gita, where the > mahafuckyas flow fast and furious. "Mahafuckyas. Now THAT cracked me right up! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, the same with akashanon. The more he challenges what we > who > > > > have Awakened express, the stronger it gets. I don't know > whether > > > > it helps him or not, though... > > > > > > acting out their > > > "I'm in ignorance and proud of it but I'm willing to tell > > > you all about enlightenment anyway" thang here on FFL, > > > > HAHAHAH. If this is not projection, what is!! > > > > You acknowledge you are not "enlightened", yet expound on it > > constantly. "I'm in ignorance and proud of it but I'm willing to > tell > > you all about enlightenment anyway" thang here on FFL," describes > you > > perfectly. Good job. > > > > And more cognitive errors, which is to be expected with posts from > > Barry (and Jim, Tom, etc.) For example, when have I ever said "let > me > > tell you all about enlightenment"? Read my posts. I think E is NOT > a > > useful term, label or concept. > > Akashanon thinks that if he can challenge and equivocate, or > rationalize, every experience he and others report, and keep from > acknowledging that real progress can be made, and that there are > clear milestones for such, he can avoid his painful realization that > all of his seeking has for him come to nought. (of course it hasn't, > but he *thinks* it has...). Wow Jim. You delusions are increasing at light speed. Which of the following is causing your massive cognitive errors this time: 1)you faulty senses, or 2) your muddled intellect or 3) my darkened heart (those being the reasons you listed previously) Just try to find examples of each of these in any of my posts. i) challenge and equivocate, or rationalize, every experience he and others report, what I challenge are: meaningless labels, cognitve errors, contradictions betweens words and actions. I encourage reporting and discussion of experiences. and keep from ii) acknowledging that real progress can't be made, Never said this. iii) and that there are not > clear milestones for such, Never said this. "he can avoid his painful realization that > all of his seeking has for him come to nought. (of course it hasn't, > but he *thinks* it has..." HAHAHAHA. This precious. Projections? I gave up seeking sometime ago. Seeking is a huge vassana. Sooner or later all need to deal with it. > > That is why You are omnicient now too??? > That is why he now proclaims that liberation, enlightenment, > Brahman, identifying with the Self, Awakening, etc. are not useful > terms, labels or concepts. I believe I said that about "enlightenment". You are hallucinating the rest. Flashbacks? Every attempt to have him state what he > *does* believe in just results in his challenging the perception of > the person asking. Read my posts. I have stated many things I believe in. The distrotions in your head are scary jim. > > OK akashanon, you, unlike all of the spiritual teachers in the > world, Wow, now you are hallucinating me as a spiritual teacher. > that > there can be no legitimate transition between ignorance and > Awakening, $100 if you cite a post where i say that hallucinating jim. > that all we can apparently hope for is some small, > incremental experiences of expanding our awareness, maybe, and that > no phase transition occurs between one state, ignorance, and > liberation, enlightenment, Brahman, identifying with the Self, > Awakening, etc. $200 if you cite a post where i say that hallucinating jim. So jim, I hope these and your recent posts, are enough examples of your delusions, halucinations, and large cognitive errors that i) you seek some third party psych appraisal ii) you understand that if you interpret what on the page in black and white with such distortions, that some might be reasonable skeptical of your reports of your interpretations of your experiences. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
On Jan 13, 2006, at 11:08 AM, jim_flanegin wrote:So, the same with akashanon. He actually prefers "Akashic Moose". To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Jim Flanegin: > So, the same with akashanon. The more he challenges what we who have > Awakened express, the stronger it gets. I don't know whether it > helps him or not, though... > > Tom T: > Darn Jim you weren't supposed to tell him. He is such a perfect mirror > of how it used to be that is not hard to remember how it used to be. > Oh Well! Maybe he will continue to play the game even if he knows the > truth about it. Or on the other hand he may choose not. > Tom T the guy who embraces the A word but definitely not the E word. Amen > Yeah, I just wanted to clearly get everyone's cards on the table, and not continue to inadvertently confuse others who may be listening in... I appreciate what you said about remembering what it used to be like. Boy did that suck! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The cool thing about akashanon's constant parrying and challenging > is that it strengthens the Awakening experience of those who are > challenged. > > Its like this dude I encountered in the post office the other day, > where I'm plunking endless amounts of change into the one > functioning stamp machine, and the machine is rejecting about every > third coin, and given that, along with the price of a book of twenty > stamps these days, it is taking a long time to buy my stamps. > > So I'm putting in coins, and putting in coins, and then I hear from > behind me, an annoyed and persistent voice, "Buy the stamps! C'mon > buy the stamps!". I ignore it, not really catching the connection, > and keep plunking my change in, and several seconds later, "Buy the > stamps! Buy the stamps!". At this point I turn around, and see that > it is this guy in line, addressing me. So I stop what I am doing and > begin calmly explaining what I am doing, and why it is taking so > long. > > This doesn't satisfy him, and he interrupts with, "Well, then just > push the button! Buy some stamps with what you have!". So I explain > that the machine only offers 20 stamp books and I haven't put enough > stamps in. He isn't satisfied by my explanation, because he has > apparently made up his mind that I am wrong, and dammit, I'm not > conforming to that view of his. Anyway, he got frustrated and left, > and I got my stamps. > > Afterwards, I realized how much such an experience had validated and > reinforced the silence which now permeates my Being, is an > everpresent constituent of me, and how such experiences stretch and > test our true Nature. > > So, the same with akashanon. The more he challenges what we who have > Awakened express, the stronger it gets. I don't know whether it > helps him or not, though... Never a dull moment in MahaRicky's Yahoovad Gita, where the mahafuckyas flow fast and furious. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Oh, I thought Tom said we are all one. Are you contradicting > > him? Or just not walking your talk? > > What makes you think that one person's experiences, > even the experiences of enlightenment, have anything > to do with anyone else's? I make no such assumption. > Tom has had his own experiences, and has his own way > of describing them and interpreting them. I find that > many of them don't map to my own experiences. Yet at > the same time what he says is perfectly valid, and > reflects a perfectly valid set of experiences with > and interpretations of enlightenment. OK. Good. Just asking. > But you will, sooner or later. Until then, I reserve > the right to laugh at your posturing. They take reservations? :) Laugh away at whatever is, and also all the filters and overlays in your head. You should be quite amused for some time. > How you feel > about that is probably related to how you feel about > Judy and her relationship to God. *She* obviously > feels that when she says that laughing at someone is > an 'attack,' that's essentially the same as if God > had said it. If you agree with her, Gee, you really don't read posts carefully at all do you. Read my lips: i) I do not take laughter as an attack. i) I don't hold you as having any power or substance to attack, iii) for real "attackers" -- ofsubstance, I don't buy into being a victim -- which is the only way one can be "bloodied" by a so-called attack. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Akashanon writes: I have said, 'hey guys, lets focus on substance.' > > TorquiseB writes: > Dude, why don't you try being honest with yourself > for once. What you *meant* by "Let's focus on > substance" was "Let's all talk about what *I* want > to talk about, in the pseudointellectual way I like > to talk about such things. Anything else is off-topic." > It's your whole act here. > > Tom T: > That is why he is so careful in his self appointed role as the > Dogma/thought patrol. Wouldn't want anyone here to have any > substantive opportunity to discuss and share experiences. Must clear > it with the Dogma patrol and get the blessing of substance that only > the intellect can understand. Anyone who deviates from that script and > role playing must certainly be OTP and subject to intense scrutiny on > a word by word basis for error and wrong thinking. Must keep that > thinking in a very narrow path. Must Must Must. Should should should. Actually Tom, if you actually read the words on the page of my posts, instead of repeatedly adding in all the cognitive distortions that appear from your head, imputing a lot of agendas. intentions, motives,etc (something you advise against -- another example of you not walking your talk), you would know a regular theme of my posts is about ways to create and enhance substantive opportunity to discuss and share experiences. Not labels, not dogma, not irrational contradictions between speech and action, not cognitive errors, but real eperiences. And you would know that my primary interest with regards to intellect is not what it can understand, not describing or analyzing the undescribable, but rather to discern "what is not". What is your view on the role of self-inquiry? Is the intellect used in that? If so, why are you so against and perhaps afraid of the intellect? "Anyone who deviates from that script and role playing must certainly be OTP" --What program is that? Unlike you, I am not part, much less the leader of any program or dogma. You appear to be the one one with, and promoting, a "program" -- and a pretty set "rap" that goes along with that program. " intense scrutiny on a word by word basis for error and wrong thinking.error and wrong thinking" As you know "cognitive errors" something, I do comment on, are not content focussed. They are, among other things, about the divergence of what is "objectively" there -- like words on a page, and the distortions people add from their heads alone-- from biases, pre-judgments, logical fallacies, etc. " Must keep that thinking in a very narrow path. Must Must Must. Should should should." I agree those words do describe some of your posts, but you may be being a bit harsh on yourself. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
Jim Flanegin: So, the same with akashanon. The more he challenges what we who have Awakened express, the stronger it gets. I don't know whether it helps him or not, though... Tom T: Darn Jim you weren't supposed to tell him. He is such a perfect mirror of how it used to be that is not hard to remember how it used to be. Oh Well! Maybe he will continue to play the game even if he knows the truth about it. Or on the other hand he may choose not. Tom T the guy who embraces the A word but definitely not the E word. Amen Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > So, the same with akashanon. The more he challenges what we who > > > have Awakened express, the stronger it gets. I don't know whether > > > it helps him or not, though... > > > > acting out their > > "I'm in ignorance and proud of it but I'm willing to tell > > you all about enlightenment anyway" thang here on FFL, > > HAHAHAH. If this is not projection, what is!! > > You acknowledge you are not "enlightened", yet expound on it > constantly. "I'm in ignorance and proud of it but I'm willing to tell > you all about enlightenment anyway" thang here on FFL," describes you > perfectly. Good job. > > And more cognitive errors, which is to be expected with posts from > Barry (and Jim, Tom, etc.) For example, when have I ever said "let me > tell you all about enlightenment"? Read my posts. I think E is NOT a > useful term, label or concept. Akashanon thinks that if he can challenge and equivocate, or rationalize, every experience he and others report, and keep from acknowledging that real progress can be made, and that there are clear milestones for such, he can avoid his painful realization that all of his seeking has for him come to nought. (of course it hasn't, but he *thinks* it has...). That is why he now proclaims that liberation, enlightenment, Brahman, identifying with the Self, Awakening, etc. are not useful terms, labels or concepts. Every attempt to have him state what he *does* believe in just results in his challenging the perception of the person asking. OK akashanon, you, unlike all of the spiritual teachers in the world, have declared the very concept of Awakening as invalid; that there can be no legitimate transition between ignorance and Awakening, that all we can apparently hope for is some small, incremental experiences of expanding our awareness, maybe, and that no phase transition occurs between one state, ignorance, and liberation, enlightenment, Brahman, identifying with the Self, Awakening, etc. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > So, the same with akashanon. The more he challenges what we who > > have Awakened express, the stronger it gets. I don't know whether > > it helps him or not, though... > > I suspect it has the opposite effect, but I agree with you. > When I watch one of the "clingers to self" acting out their > "I'm in ignorance and proud of it but I'm willing to tell > you all about enlightenment anyway" thang here on FFL, I > have several simultaneous reactions. The first is that I am > *immensely* grateful that, unlike them, I have had my own > experiences of enlightenment and don't have to try to fake > knowledge of enlightenment based on the intellectual > bullshit we've all been told *about* it over the years. > > Second, I often find myself laughing, often out loud, > because the intellectual posturing and trying to sound > knowledgeable about something they've never experienced > really *IS* laughable. (Sorry, but it is...if you guys are > going to continue to do this shit, *somebody* should tell > you the truth.) Third, *even as I'm laughing*, I tend to > feel sorry for the person doing the intellectual posturing > about enlightenment, remembering that if I hadn't been > lucky enough to have a few experiences of awakening myself > that I'd probably be posturing the same way and spouting > the same intellectual bullshit. And fourth, I try to > remind myself *never* to try to explain the subjective > experience of enlightenment to anyone who hasn't already > experienced it, because then I'd be just as laughable. > > All in all, it's a real multidimensinoal learning experience... > Yep, I agree with all that you are saying. To the last point, 'explaining...', this forum is quite a unique place in which to attempt that, in that as far as I can tell, all are meditators of some form or stripe, and it is within this context that I feel comfortable sharing my experiences, both to clarify them through this forum, and to help dispel this notion and very damaging myth from the Christian tradition I suspect, that, try-as-we-might-we- never-get-there, oh-us-humble-sinners and on and on and on and on... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
> Oh, I thought Tom said we are all one. Are you contradicting > him? Or just not walking your talk? What makes you think that one person's experiences, even the experiences of enlightenment, have anything to do with anyone else's? I make no such assumption. Tom has had his own experiences, and has his own way of describing them and interpreting them. I find that many of them don't map to my own experiences. Yet at the same time what he says is perfectly valid, and reflects a perfectly valid set of experiences with and interpretations of enlightenment. If you find all that contradictory, that's just because you haven't been there, done that. But you will, sooner or later. Until then, I reserve the right to laugh at your posturing. How you feel about that is probably related to how you feel about Judy and her relationship to God. *She* obviously feels that when she says that laughing at someone is an 'attack,' that's essentially the same as if God had said it. If you agree with her, you may consider my ongoing laughing at you as an attack. Or you can consider it anything you want; it doesn't really affect me at all. I'm just stuck with laughing at you, because you're so doggoned laughable. Make of it what you will... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > So, the same with akashanon. The more he challenges what we > > who have > > > > Awakened express, the stronger it gets. I don't know whether it > > > > helps him or not, though... > > > > > > I am glad it helps. > > > > You should've stopped here- quit while you're ahead. > > > > If my posts help reduce the contradictions, > > > cognitive errors, dogma and baseless assumptions, then discussions > > of > > > substance will be clearer and deeper. > > > > They don't, but are a help nonetheless, despite yourself...The help > > is not in who you are or think you are, but in what you represent ;) > > > > > I get value in seeing how oddly ones words can be read. Its helps > > > writing skills -- > > > > Ah, so there is the trade-off; our discourse deepens my Awakening, > > yet it improves your writing skills... > > > > a challenge to try to make ones writing clear even > > > to those who respond primarily to voices in their heads and not > > whats > > > on the page. > > > > > > And I get huge a huge source of laughter seeing the contradictions, > > > cognitive errors, dogma and baseless assumptions that some posters > > > make everyday. Including you. Thanks for that. Its a great gift. > > > > > That sounds frankly like a real big load of the smelly stuff.. > > > Why is that Jim? > > oh well, the world is as we are, right jim? I see clarity and you see > shit. > Right. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > So, the same with akashanon. The more he challenges what we > who have > > > Awakened express, the stronger it gets. I don't know whether it > > > helps him or not, though... > > > > I am glad it helps. > > You should've stopped here- quit while you're ahead. > > If my posts help reduce the contradictions, > > cognitive errors, dogma and baseless assumptions, then discussions > of > > substance will be clearer and deeper. > > They don't, but are a help nonetheless, despite yourself...The help > is not in who you are or think you are, but in what you represent ;) > > > I get value in seeing how oddly ones words can be read. Its helps > > writing skills -- > > Ah, so there is the trade-off; our discourse deepens my Awakening, > yet it improves your writing skills... > > a challenge to try to make ones writing clear even > > to those who respond primarily to voices in their heads and not > whats > > on the page. > > > > And I get huge a huge source of laughter seeing the contradictions, > > cognitive errors, dogma and baseless assumptions that some posters > > make everyday. Including you. Thanks for that. Its a great gift. > > > That sounds frankly like a real big load of the smelly stuff.. Why is that Jim? oh well, the world is as we are, right jim? I see clarity and you see shit. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > So, the same with akashanon. The more he challenges what we who have > > Awakened express, the stronger it gets. I don't know whether it > > helps him or not, though... > > I am glad it helps. You should've stopped here- quit while you're ahead. If my posts help reduce the contradictions, > cognitive errors, dogma and baseless assumptions, then discussions of > substance will be clearer and deeper. They don't, but are a help nonetheless, despite yourself...The help is not in who you are or think you are, but in what you represent ;) > I get value in seeing how oddly ones words can be read. Its helps > writing skills -- Ah, so there is the trade-off; our discourse deepens my Awakening, yet it improves your writing skills... a challenge to try to make ones writing clear even > to those who respond primarily to voices in their heads and not whats > on the page. > > And I get huge a huge source of laughter seeing the contradictions, > cognitive errors, dogma and baseless assumptions that some posters > make everyday. Including you. Thanks for that. Its a great gift. > That sounds frankly like a real big load of the smelly stuff.. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > So, the same with akashanon. The more he challenges what we who > > have Awakened express, the stronger it gets. I don't know whether > > it helps him or not, though... > > acting out their > "I'm in ignorance and proud of it but I'm willing to tell > you all about enlightenment anyway" thang here on FFL, HAHAHAH. If this is not projection, what is!! You acknowledge you are not "enlightened", yet expound on it constantly. "I'm in ignorance and proud of it but I'm willing to tell you all about enlightenment anyway" thang here on FFL," describes you perfectly. Good job. And more cognitive errors, which is to be expected with posts from Barry (and Jim, Tom, etc.) For example, when have I ever said "let me tell you all about enlightenment"? Read my posts. I think E is NOT a useful term, label or concept. When you read posts, try actually looking whats on the page and not whats in your head. And maybe take Tom's advice of facing near impossibility of discerning a posters intentions, moods, or states. >I > have several simultaneous reactions. For each personality? :) >The first is that I am > *immensely* grateful that, unlike them, Oh, I thought Tom said we are all one. Are you contradicting him? Or just not walking your talk? > I have had my own > experiences of enlightenment well you ARE special (unlike"them".) > and don't have to try to f ake > knowledge of enlightenment based on the intellectual > bullshit we've all been told *about* it over the years. Well, glad you are not referring to me, since I don't talk about enlightenment -- other than to point out the mutiple mutually exclusive defintions and reports of experience by others. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In > FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Akashanon writes: I have said, 'hey guys, lets focus on substance.' > > > > TorquiseB writes: > > Dude, why don't you try being honest with yourself > > for once. What you *meant* by "Let's focus on > > substance" was "Let's all talk about what *I* want > > to talk about, in the pseudointellectual way I like > > to talk about such things. Anything else is off-topic." > > It's your whole act here. > > > > Tom T: > > That is why he is so careful in his self appointed role as the > > Dogma/thought patrol. Wouldn't want anyone here to have any > > substantive opportunity to discuss and share experiences. Must > clear > > it with the Dogma patrol and get the blessing of substance that > only > > the intellect can understand. Anyone who deviates from that script > and > > role playing must certainly be OTP and subject to intense scrutiny > on > > a word by word basis for error and wrong thinking. Must keep that > > thinking in a very narrow path. Must Must Must. Should should > should. > > > > The cool thing about akashanon's constant parrying and challenging > is that it strengthens the Awakening experience of those who are > challenged. > > Its like this dude I encountered in the post office the other day, > where I'm plunking endless amounts of change into the one > functioning stamp machine, and the machine is rejecting about every > third coin, and given that, along with the price of a book of twenty > stamps these days, it is taking a long time to buy my stamps. > > So I'm putting in coins, and putting in coins, and then I hear from > behind me, an annoyed and persistent voice, "Buy the stamps! C'mon > buy the stamps!". I ignore it, not really catching the connection, > and keep plunking my change in, and several seconds later, "Buy the > stamps! Buy the stamps!". At this point I turn around, and see that > it is this guy in line, addressing me. So I stop what I am doing and > begin calmly explaining what I am doing, and why it is taking so > long. > > This doesn't satisfy him, and he interrupts with, "Well, then just > push the button! Buy some stamps with what you have!". So I explain > that the machine only offers 20 stamp books and I haven't put enough > stamps in. He isn't satisfied by my explanation, because he has > apparently made up his mind that I am wrong, and dammit, I'm not > conforming to that view of his. Anyway, he got frustrated and left, > and I got my stamps. > > Afterwards, I realized how much such an experience had validated and > reinforced the silence which now permeates my Being, is an > everpresent constituent of me, and how such experiences stretch and > test our true Nature. > > So, the same with akashanon. The more he challenges what we who have > Awakened express, the stronger it gets. I don't know whether it > helps him or not, though... I am glad it helps. If my posts help reduce the contradictions, cognitive errors, dogma and baseless assumptions, then discussions of substance will be clearer and deeper. I get value in seeing how oddly ones words can be read. Its helps writing skills -- a challenge to try to make ones writing clear even to those who respond primarily to voices in their heads and not whats on the page. And I get huge a huge source of laughter seeing the contradictions, cognitive errors, dogma and baseless assumptions that some posters make everyday. Including you. Thanks for that. Its a great gift. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > So, the same with akashanon. The more he challenges what we who > have Awakened express, the stronger it gets. I don't know whether > it helps him or not, though... I suspect it has the opposite effect, but I agree with you. When I watch one of the "clingers to self" acting out their "I'm in ignorance and proud of it but I'm willing to tell you all about enlightenment anyway" thang here on FFL, I have several simultaneous reactions. The first is that I am *immensely* grateful that, unlike them, I have had my own experiences of enlightenment and don't have to try to fake knowledge of enlightenment based on the intellectual bullshit we've all been told *about* it over the years. Second, I often find myself laughing, often out loud, because the intellectual posturing and trying to sound knowledgeable about something they've never experienced really *IS* laughable. (Sorry, but it is...if you guys are going to continue to do this shit, *somebody* should tell you the truth.) Third, *even as I'm laughing*, I tend to feel sorry for the person doing the intellectual posturing about enlightenment, remembering that if I hadn't been lucky enough to have a few experiences of awakening myself that I'd probably be posturing the same way and spouting the same intellectual bullshit. And fourth, I try to remind myself *never* to try to explain the subjective experience of enlightenment to anyone who hasn't already experienced it, because then I'd be just as laughable. All in all, it's a real multidimensinoal learning experience... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Akashanon writes: I have said, 'hey guys, lets focus on substance.' > > TorquiseB writes: > Dude, why don't you try being honest with yourself > for once. What you *meant* by "Let's focus on > substance" was "Let's all talk about what *I* want > to talk about, in the pseudointellectual way I like > to talk about such things. Anything else is off-topic." > It's your whole act here. > > Tom T: > That is why he is so careful in his self appointed role as the > Dogma/thought patrol. Wouldn't want anyone here to have any > substantive opportunity to discuss and share experiences. Must clear > it with the Dogma patrol and get the blessing of substance that only > the intellect can understand. Anyone who deviates from that script and > role playing must certainly be OTP and subject to intense scrutiny on > a word by word basis for error and wrong thinking. Must keep that > thinking in a very narrow path. Must Must Must. Should should should. > The cool thing about akashanon's constant parrying and challenging is that it strengthens the Awakening experience of those who are challenged. Its like this dude I encountered in the post office the other day, where I'm plunking endless amounts of change into the one functioning stamp machine, and the machine is rejecting about every third coin, and given that, along with the price of a book of twenty stamps these days, it is taking a long time to buy my stamps. So I'm putting in coins, and putting in coins, and then I hear from behind me, an annoyed and persistent voice, "Buy the stamps! C'mon buy the stamps!". I ignore it, not really catching the connection, and keep plunking my change in, and several seconds later, "Buy the stamps! Buy the stamps!". At this point I turn around, and see that it is this guy in line, addressing me. So I stop what I am doing and begin calmly explaining what I am doing, and why it is taking so long. This doesn't satisfy him, and he interrupts with, "Well, then just push the button! Buy some stamps with what you have!". So I explain that the machine only offers 20 stamp books and I haven't put enough stamps in. He isn't satisfied by my explanation, because he has apparently made up his mind that I am wrong, and dammit, I'm not conforming to that view of his. Anyway, he got frustrated and left, and I got my stamps. Afterwards, I realized how much such an experience had validated and reinforced the silence which now permeates my Being, is an everpresent constituent of me, and how such experiences stretch and test our true Nature. So, the same with akashanon. The more he challenges what we who have Awakened express, the stronger it gets. I don't know whether it helps him or not, though... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > OTOT, a working set of hypotheses of a persons moods and > > > > intentions may help one be more sesnsitive. For example, > > > > thinking, "It sounds like he MAY be mad at something. Just > > > > in case, I will be careful not to use ambiguous language, > > > > in case, I will be careful not or jokes that might be > > > > misinterprested." > > > > > > It sounds like the person who wrote this is attached > > > to being interpreted the way he wants to be interpreted. :-) > > > > Congratulations Barry. The point of the post was trying to "guess" or > > speculate about intentions of a poster is pointless. So right out of > > the chute, you speculate on intentions. Incorrectly. Without basis. > > Thats our Barry! > > Sorry, no cigar. :-) > > To use the word 'misinterpreted' implies that something > could possibly *be* misinterpreted, which implies that > the person who is concerned about being misinterpreted > (you, in the original post) believes that there is only > one *valid* interpretation. That, to me, implies a lot > of attachment. Or, perhaps, insisting on one's own interpretation of something somebody else has said, even after being told that is not what they meant, represents an attachment to being able to interpret anything and everything as one pleases. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > OTOT, a working set of hypotheses of a persons moods and > > > > intentions may help one be more sesnsitive. For example, > > > > thinking, "It sounds like he MAY be mad at something. Just > > > > in case, I will be careful not to use ambiguous language, > > > > in case, I will be careful not or jokes that might be > > > > misinterprested." > > > > > > It sounds like the person who wrote this is attached > > > to being interpreted the way he wants to be interpreted. :-) > > > > Congratulations Barry. The point of the post was trying to "guess" or > > speculate about intentions of a poster is pointless. So right out of > > the chute, you speculate on intentions. Incorrectly. Without basis. > > Thats our Barry! > > Sorry, no cigar. :-) > > To use the word 'misinterpreted' implies that something > could possibly *be* misinterpreted, which implies that > the person who is concerned about being misinterpreted > (you, in the original post) believes that there is only > one *valid* interpretation. That, to me, implies a lot > of attachment. > > A less attached person could just say shit and allow > others to interpret it however they wanted. > > To reiterate, more slowly and in all caps, since you > don't seem to grasp the concept: > > ONLY SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES HE HAS THE ONE, TRUE, > VALID INTERPRETATION OF SOMETHING WOULD BE > CONCERNED ABOUT BEING "MISINTERPRETED." RIGHT? > > :-) > As you say, oh baseless one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
> > > OTOT, a working set of hypotheses of a persons moods and > > > intentions may help one be more sesnsitive. For example, > > > thinking, "It sounds like he MAY be mad at something. Just > > > in case, I will be careful not to use ambiguous language, > > > in case, I will be careful not or jokes that might be > > > misinterprested." > > > > It sounds like the person who wrote this is attached > > to being interpreted the way he wants to be interpreted. :-) > > Congratulations Barry. The point of the post was trying to "guess" or > speculate about intentions of a poster is pointless. So right out of > the chute, you speculate on intentions. Incorrectly. Without basis. > Thats our Barry! Sorry, no cigar. :-) To use the word 'misinterpreted' implies that something could possibly *be* misinterpreted, which implies that the person who is concerned about being misinterpreted (you, in the original post) believes that there is only one *valid* interpretation. That, to me, implies a lot of attachment. A less attached person could just say shit and allow others to interpret it however they wanted. To reiterate, more slowly and in all caps, since you don't seem to grasp the concept: ONLY SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES HE HAS THE ONE, TRUE, VALID INTERPRETATION OF SOMETHING WOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT BEING "MISINTERPRETED." RIGHT? :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Akashanon writes: I have said, 'hey guys, lets focus on substance.' > > TorquiseB writes: > Dude, why don't you try being honest with yourself > for once. What you *meant* by "Let's focus on > substance" was "Let's all talk about what *I* want > to talk about, in the pseudointellectual way I like > to talk about such things. Anything else is off-topic." > It's your whole act here. > > Tom T: > That is why he is so careful in his self appointed role as the > Dogma/thought patrol. Wouldn't want anyone here to have any > substantive opportunity to discuss and share experiences. Must clear > it with the Dogma patrol and get the blessing of substance that only > the intellect can understand. Anyone who deviates from that script and > role playing must certainly be OTP and subject to intense scrutiny on > a word by word basis for error and wrong thinking. Must keep that > thinking in a very narrow path. Must Must Must. Should should should. Wow, even more baseless speculation on intentions and a posters inner world not only from barry, but now from Tom. And Tom just posted that such is futile and baseless. A paradox of Brahman no doubt. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > I'll try again, briefly. To laugh *at* someone is, > > virtually by definition, an attack. Confirming that > > one is laughing *at* somebody is therefore equivalent > > to stating one's intention, so no minds need to be > > read. > > > > Please note that in this instance neither Lawson > > nor myself was the target of the attack; we were > > commenting on the hypocrisy of the attacker > > claiming it *wasn't* an attack on the person being > > attacked. > > > > (The attacker, needless to say, went on to attack > > both of us, not even under the guise of laughing > > at us; and among other absurdities, pretended that > > we were somehow "threatened" when we hadn't been > > the targets in the first place.) > > And all of this because I found something > that Anon said so funny that I laughed out > loud about it, and said so. What I found > so funny was the glorification of the > intellect by someone stuck in the intellect. > > And so, as it turned out, who on FFL chose to > turn my laughter into a big battle? The other > members of FFL who are classically stuck in the > intellect, so much so that they consistently > attempt to present being stuck in the intellect > as a pathway to enlightenment, that's who. The > whole scene really *IS* pretty funny, IMO. :-) > > I don't know about anyone else, but the > thing that *I* have learned from all of > this is that for some people the idea of > being laughed at is so painful and so scary > that it *always* feels like an attack to > them. That's essentially very, very sad, > because it implies that for these people, > laughing at one's *self* is probably equally > scary. Because being able to laugh at one's > self is, in my experience, essential to the > process of discarding it (realizing the Self), > I have come to the conclusion that the people > who consistently act like this have made a > conscious choice to *not* realize enlightenment > in this lifetime. They're that afraid of > losing the self. > > And because anyone who *has* glimpsed the Self > and spent some time free from self realizes how > silly this fear is, they will laugh at the people > who fear losing the self even more, which in turn > will make them even crazier than they are now. > > It's ALL very funny, in a weird sort of way. > > The laughter is going to win. The clinging > to self is going to lose. That's just the > way the world works. Barry, Evern more baseless speculation on intentions and a posters inner world from you. You are becoming a master of vaccuous, baseless posts. I would speculate that may correspond to whats inside your head, but that would be idle specualtion. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > OTOT, a working set of hypotheses of a persons moods and intentions > > may help one be more sesnsitive. For example, thinking, "It sounds > > like he MAY be mad at something. Just in case, I will be careful not > > to use ambiguous language, or jokes that might be misinterprested." > > It sounds like the person who wrote this is attached > to being interpreted the way he wants to be interpreted. :-) Congratulations Barry. The point of the post was trying to "guess" or speculate about intentions of a poster is pointless. So right out of the chute, you speculate on intentions. Incorrectly. Without basis. Thats our Barry! > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Laughing at someone is always an attack, > > virtually by definition. As I've noted > > several times, however, that doesn't mean > > that the person laughed at *feels* attacked. > > You're conflating the perspective of the > > attacker with the perspective of the target > > of the attack. It's entirely possible to > > recognize that someone has attacked you > > without feeling victimized by the attack, > > you see. > > I love it. Judy wants to play the victim and > claim that she is one Hmm, where have I claimed that I was a victim? while at the same time > claiming that she doesn't feel like a victim. > > It's really difficult NOT to laugh at her... :-) > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Laughing at someone is always an attack, > virtually by definition. As I've noted > several times, however, that doesn't mean > that the person laughed at *feels* attacked. > You're conflating the perspective of the > attacker with the perspective of the target > of the attack. It's entirely possible to > recognize that someone has attacked you > without feeling victimized by the attack, > you see. I love it. Judy wants to play the victim and claim that she is one while at the same time claiming that she doesn't feel like a victim. It's really difficult NOT to laugh at her... :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > I'll try again, briefly. To laugh *at* someone is, > > virtually by definition, an attack. Confirming that > > one is laughing *at* somebody is therefore equivalent > > to stating one's intention, so no minds need to be > > read. > > > > Please note that in this instance neither Lawson > > nor myself was the target of the attack; we were > > commenting on the hypocrisy of the attacker > > claiming it *wasn't* an attack on the person being > > attacked. > > > > (The attacker, needless to say, went on to attack > > both of us, not even under the guise of laughing > > at us; and among other absurdities, pretended that > > we were somehow "threatened" when we hadn't been > > the targets in the first place.) > > And all of this because I found something > that Anon said so funny that I laughed out > loud about it, and said so. What I found > so funny was the glorification of the > intellect by someone stuck in the intellect. Right, you attacked anon, just as we said. > And so, as it turned out, who on FFL chose to > turn my laughter into a big battle? Actually, you did, if you'll recall. All I did was point out that laughing at someone constituted an attack. Then you attacked me, at considerable length, for saying so, and went on to attack Lawson for agreeing with me, then posted a long diatribe in which you suggested laughing at someone was a teaching method. The other > members of FFL who are classically stuck in the > intellect, so much so that they consistently > attempt to present being stuck in the intellect > as a pathway to enlightenment, that's who. Since neither Lawson (as far as I can recall) nor I have ever suggested being stuck in the intellect is a pathway to enlightenment, it's not clear who you're referring to here. In fact, I can't think of *anyone* on this forum who has ever made such a suggestion. The > whole scene really *IS* pretty funny, IMO. :-) > > I don't know about anyone else, but the > thing that *I* have learned from all of > this is that for some people the idea of > being laughed at is so painful and so scary > that it *always* feels like an attack to > them. Laughing at someone is always an attack, virtually by definition. As I've noted several times, however, that doesn't mean that the person laughed at *feels* attacked. You're conflating the perspective of the attacker with the perspective of the target of the attack. It's entirely possible to recognize that someone has attacked you without feeling victimized by the attack, you see. That's essentially very, very sad, > because it implies that for these people, > laughing at one's *self* is probably equally > scary. Because being able to laugh at one's > self is, in my experience, essential to the > process of discarding it (realizing the Self), > I have come to the conclusion that the people > who consistently act like this have made a > conscious choice to *not* realize enlightenment > in this lifetime. They're that afraid of > losing the self. > > And because anyone who *has* glimpsed the Self > and spent some time free from self realizes how > silly this fear is, they will laugh at the people > who fear losing the self even more, which in turn > will make them even crazier than they are now. > > It's ALL very funny, in a weird sort of way. > > The laughter is going to win. The clinging > to self is going to lose. That's just the > way the world works. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I believe that Barry has indicated that he believes that laughing > AT is good for the person being laughed at, or something along > those lines. He's even implied that he WAS attacking, but won't > quite own up to it explicitly. No, it went like this: Barry attacked anon for having (as he saw it) reacted to being laughed at (by Barry) as if it were an attack, denying that laughing at a person was an attack. You and I noted that laughing *at* someone was ipso facto an attack; then Barry attacked us for saying this; *then* he made his post about laughing at people being good for them. Far from implying that he was attacking by laughing at someone, he's denied it vigorously (again, while attacking those who said laughing at was attacking). Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
Akashanon writes: I have said, 'hey guys, lets focus on substance.' TorquiseB writes: Dude, why don't you try being honest with yourself for once. What you *meant* by "Let's focus on substance" was "Let's all talk about what *I* want to talk about, in the pseudointellectual way I like to talk about such things. Anything else is off-topic." It's your whole act here. Tom T: That is why he is so careful in his self appointed role as the Dogma/thought patrol. Wouldn't want anyone here to have any substantive opportunity to discuss and share experiences. Must clear it with the Dogma patrol and get the blessing of substance that only the intellect can understand. Anyone who deviates from that script and role playing must certainly be OTP and subject to intense scrutiny on a word by word basis for error and wrong thinking. Must keep that thinking in a very narrow path. Must Must Must. Should should should. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
Spare egg writes: Of course, Barry has never denied his intent to laugh AT people. Rather he has embraced and defended it. Seems a not very difficult job of mind-reading to assume something, comment on that assumption, and get CONFIRMATION of that assumption and therefore to continue to assume that one's original assumption was correct. TOm T: Of course one needs to be aware of the true definition of Assume. As I remember the statement goes, When we use that word it makes an ass out of me. Thanks for another old forgotten joke. Ha Tom T Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > But, why bother with what often/usually is perceived as an > > attack, and then criticize for saying "that's an attack?" > > I don't believe I have. > > Others have been involved in the laugh-attack debate. I have > not said anyone was attacking. Including barry. > > I have said, 'hey guys, lets focus on substance.' Dude, why don't you try being honest with yourself for once. What you *meant* by "Let's focus on substance" was "Let's all talk about what *I* want to talk about, in the pseudointellectual way I like to talk about such things. Anything else is off-topic." It's your whole act here. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'll try again, briefly. To laugh *at* someone is, > virtually by definition, an attack. Confirming that > one is laughing *at* somebody is therefore equivalent > to stating one's intention, so no minds need to be > read. > > Please note that in this instance neither Lawson > nor myself was the target of the attack; we were > commenting on the hypocrisy of the attacker > claiming it *wasn't* an attack on the person being > attacked. > > (The attacker, needless to say, went on to attack > both of us, not even under the guise of laughing > at us; and among other absurdities, pretended that > we were somehow "threatened" when we hadn't been > the targets in the first place.) And all of this because I found something that Anon said so funny that I laughed out loud about it, and said so. What I found so funny was the glorification of the intellect by someone stuck in the intellect. And so, as it turned out, who on FFL chose to turn my laughter into a big battle? The other members of FFL who are classically stuck in the intellect, so much so that they consistently attempt to present being stuck in the intellect as a pathway to enlightenment, that's who. The whole scene really *IS* pretty funny, IMO. :-) I don't know about anyone else, but the thing that *I* have learned from all of this is that for some people the idea of being laughed at is so painful and so scary that it *always* feels like an attack to them. That's essentially very, very sad, because it implies that for these people, laughing at one's *self* is probably equally scary. Because being able to laugh at one's self is, in my experience, essential to the process of discarding it (realizing the Self), I have come to the conclusion that the people who consistently act like this have made a conscious choice to *not* realize enlightenment in this lifetime. They're that afraid of losing the self. And because anyone who *has* glimpsed the Self and spent some time free from self realizes how silly this fear is, they will laugh at the people who fear losing the self even more, which in turn will make them even crazier than they are now. It's ALL very funny, in a weird sort of way. The laughter is going to win. The clinging to self is going to lose. That's just the way the world works. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > OTOT, a working set of hypotheses of a persons moods and intentions > may help one be more sesnsitive. For example, thinking, "It sounds > like he MAY be mad at something. Just in case, I will be careful not > to use ambiguous language, or jokes that might be misinterprested." It sounds like the person who wrote this is attached to being interpreted the way he wants to be interpreted. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > And then there is the one-on-one put down. Not the most > > refined > > > > > > behavior. But for it to be an attack, to draw blood, the > > insultee > > > > > > has to play victim and accept it as an insult. > > > > > > > > > > "For it to be an attack" and "for it to draw blood" are two > > > > > different things, as I've noted a couple of times now. An > > > > > attack that fails to draw blood is still an attack. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I am not sure I agree. > > > > > > > > For, example, if an ant gets mad at you, and tries to "get" you, I > > > > would not consider that an attack. Not something I would report > > to > > > > the police as an assault. They would laugh. "The ant has no > > ability to > > > > hurt you." they would laugh. "Thats not an attack". > > > > > > > > I sort feel the same way about Barry. > > > > > > > > > But regardless of how we define "attack", if one does not play > > victim, > > > no one can touch them with mere words. > > > > > > > But, why bother with what often/usually is perceived as an attack, > > and then criticize for saying "that's an attack?" > > I don't believe I have. Sorry. I was actually making a reference to Barry when I said that. > > Others have been involved in the laugh-attack debate. I have not said > anyone was attacking. Including barry. I believe that Barry has indicated that he believes that laughing AT is good for the person being laughed at, or something along those lines. He's even implied that he WAS attacking, but won't quite own up to it explicitly. > > I have said, 'hey guys, lets focus on substance.' > > I just wrote a post, saying one has to buy into being a victim, buy > into being "insultable" to be (or feel any effects from) some venting, > unstressing, or venting by others. I don't buy into any of that. > > Who is criticizing others saying "that's an attack?" Not me that I > recall. Point it out for my illumination if I have. > Again, was really referring to Barry while responding to you,sorry. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > And then there is the one-on-one put down. Not the most > refined > > > > > behavior. But for it to be an attack, to draw blood, the > insultee > > > > > has to play victim and accept it as an insult. > > > > > > > > "For it to be an attack" and "for it to draw blood" are two > > > > different things, as I've noted a couple of times now. An > > > > attack that fails to draw blood is still an attack. > > > > > > > > > Well I am not sure I agree. > > > > > > For, example, if an ant gets mad at you, and tries to "get" you, I > > > would not consider that an attack. Not something I would report > to > > > the police as an assault. They would laugh. "The ant has no > ability to > > > hurt you." they would laugh. "Thats not an attack". > > > > > > I sort feel the same way about Barry. > > > > > > But regardless of how we define "attack", if one does not play > victim, > > no one can touch them with mere words. > > > > But, why bother with what often/usually is perceived as an attack, > and then criticize for saying "that's an attack?" I don't believe I have. Others have been involved in the laugh-attack debate. I have not said anyone was attacking. Including barry. I have said, 'hey guys, lets focus on substance.' I just wrote a post, saying one has to buy into being a victim, buy into being "insultable" to be (or feel any effects from) some venting, unstressing, or venting by others. I don't buy into any of that. Who is criticizing others saying "that's an attack?" Not me that I recall. Point it out for my illumination if I have. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Judy writes: > Sure. But it would be more accurate to say (of the > ant and Barry), "That isn't the kind of attack that > can do you any damage." What makes it an attack is > the intention of the attacker, not the effect on the > attackee. > > Tom T: > The thought stopper for me in this was who and how is the intention of > the attacker known. By inferrence it can not be an atack until the > intention is known so it starts out as just a statement intended to > cause a laugh. At some point it would appeat that the person recieving > the statement intending to cause a laugh has to go inside and make a > judgement that they know that the writer of said statement intended to > hurt them specifically. It kind of sounds like mind reading in that > the uninttending attacker has to read the mind of the attackee to > know AH this will really p*ss this one off and then goes ahead and > posts it anyway. On the other hand the supposed attacked may have a > world view that assumes all comments are attacks, or the supposed > attacker has a personal vendetta that is a known fact. This seems > pretty convoluted to me. Maybe we just need to laugh more and worry > less. Tom T > Of course, Barry has never denied his intent to laugh AT people. Rather he has embraced and defended it. Seems a not very difficult job of mind-reading to assume something, comment on that assumption, and get CONFIRMATION of that assumption and therefore to continue to assume that one's original assumption was correct. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > And then there is the one-on-one put down. Not the most refined > > > > behavior. But for it to be an attack, to draw blood, the insultee > > > > has to play victim and accept it as an insult. > > > > > > "For it to be an attack" and "for it to draw blood" are two > > > different things, as I've noted a couple of times now. An > > > attack that fails to draw blood is still an attack. > > > > > > Well I am not sure I agree. > > > > For, example, if an ant gets mad at you, and tries to "get" you, I > > would not consider that an attack. Not something I would report to > > the police as an assault. They would laugh. "The ant has no ability to > > hurt you." they would laugh. "Thats not an attack". > > > > I sort feel the same way about Barry. > > > But regardless of how we define "attack", if one does not play victim, > no one can touch them with mere words. > But, why bother with what often/usually is perceived as an attack, and then criticize for saying "that's an attack?" Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > And then there is the one-on-one put down. Not the most refined > > > > behavior. But for it to be an attack, to draw blood, the > insultee > > > > has to play victim and accept it as an insult. > > > > > > "For it to be an attack" and "for it to draw blood" are two > > > different things, as I've noted a couple of times now. An > > > attack that fails to draw blood is still an attack. > > > > Well I am not sure I agree. > > > > For, example, if an ant gets mad at you, and tries to "get" you, I > > would not consider that an attack. Not something I would report to > > the police as an assault. They would laugh. "The ant has no > > ability to hurt you." they would laugh. "Thats not an attack". > > > > I sort feel the same way about Barry. > > And yet you've now written hundreds of lines of > text in quite a few posts since the ant laughed > at you, defending yourself and your ideas. Just > think what how much verbiage we all would've had > to wade through if it had been a "real" attack. > > :-) :-) :-) > While my [...] gets you all riled up... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I assume most view laughing with someone as a good thing. > > I think satire is an attempt to get everyone laughing. The target may > see themselves in the satire, but can take refuge and think "well at > least I am not that bad" and laugh. > > With friends, we often make a joke at their expense --laughing at > them, to get them to laugh with us. Its a friendly way to point out a > perceived foilble without getting all serious. "Dude, you have got > your head up your ass on this issue", says one friend to another. Its > mocking the first, so he can step back and maybe take some > perspective. The insultee then may often respond witb a retort, again > attempting to help the other gain some perspective, "At least I am not > pussy-whipped like you." They both laugh, but GET each others point. > Thats an at/with laugh. > > This ussually does not work with strangers. Imagine the same convo > between two guys on the street. Blood in the streets. > > I sense some communication on FFL occurs when someone assumes too > close a sense of friendship with other poster, throws out a laugh > at/with perspective-inducing barb, and the receiver takes it as an > insult, not as intended. > > In groups, there can be pure laugh ats, when its deemed the insultee > beyond help, but the barb is a cautionary tale to the group --"lets us > not be such assholes". > > And then there is the one-on-one put down. Not the most refined > behavior. But for it to be an attack, to draw blood, the insultee has > to play victim and accept it as an insult. A "sticks and stones" sort > of thing. > Requires a certain eveness of relationship between the comedian and the audience for this to work, I think... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
Alright already I humbly suggest folks, it's time to move on. Maybe go to law school. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In > FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Judy writes: > > Sure. But it would be more accurate to say (of the > > ant and Barry), "That isn't the kind of attack that > > can do you any damage." What makes it an attack is > > the intention of the attacker, not the effect on the > > attackee. > > > > Tom T: > > The thought stopper for me in this was who and how is the intention > > of the attacker known. By inferrence it can not be an atack until > > the intention is known so it starts out as just a statement > > intended to cause a laugh. At some point it would appeat that the > > person recieving the statement intending to cause a laugh has to go > > inside and make a judgement that they know that the writer of said > > statement intended to hurt them specifically. It kind of sounds > > like mind reading in that the uninttending attacker has to read > > the mind of the attackee to know AH this will really p*ss this one > > off and then goes ahead and posts it anyway. On the other hand the > > supposed attacked may have a world view that assumes all comments > > are attacks, or the supposed attacker has a personal vendetta that > > is a known fact. This seems pretty convoluted to me. Maybe we just > > need to laugh more and worry less. Tom T > > > > I'll try again, briefly. To laugh *at* someone is, > virtually by definition, an attack. Confirming that > one is laughing *at* somebody is therefore equivalent > to stating one's intention, so no minds need to be > read. > > Please note that in this instance neither Lawson > nor myself was the target of the attack; we were > commenting on the hypocrisy of the attacker > claiming it *wasn't* an attack on the person being > attacked. > > (The attacker, needless to say, went on to attack > both of us, not even under the guise of laughing > at us; and among other absurdities, pretended that > we were somehow "threatened" when we hadn't been > the targets in the first place.) > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Judy writes: > Sure. But it would be more accurate to say (of the > ant and Barry), "That isn't the kind of attack that > can do you any damage." What makes it an attack is > the intention of the attacker, not the effect on the > attackee. > > Tom T: > The thought stopper for me in this was who and how is the intention > of the attacker known. By inferrence it can not be an atack until > the intention is known so it starts out as just a statement > intended to cause a laugh. At some point it would appeat that the > person recieving the statement intending to cause a laugh has to go > inside and make a judgement that they know that the writer of said > statement intended to hurt them specifically. It kind of sounds > like mind reading in that the uninttending attacker has to read > the mind of the attackee to know AH this will really p*ss this one > off and then goes ahead and posts it anyway. On the other hand the > supposed attacked may have a world view that assumes all comments > are attacks, or the supposed attacker has a personal vendetta that > is a known fact. This seems pretty convoluted to me. Maybe we just > need to laugh more and worry less. Tom T I'll try again, briefly. To laugh *at* someone is, virtually by definition, an attack. Confirming that one is laughing *at* somebody is therefore equivalent to stating one's intention, so no minds need to be read. Please note that in this instance neither Lawson nor myself was the target of the attack; we were commenting on the hypocrisy of the attacker claiming it *wasn't* an attack on the person being attacked. (The attacker, needless to say, went on to attack both of us, not even under the guise of laughing at us; and among other absurdities, pretended that we were somehow "threatened" when we hadn't been the targets in the first place.) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Judy writes: > Sure. But it would be more accurate to say (of the > ant and Barry), "That isn't the kind of attack that > can do you any damage." What makes it an attack is > the intention of the attacker, not the effect on the > attackee. > > Tom T: > The thought stopper for me in this was who and how is the intention of > the attacker known. By inferrence it can not be an atack until the > intention is known so it starts out as just a statement intended to > cause a laugh. At some point it would appeat that the person recieving > the statement intending to cause a laugh has to go inside and make a > judgement that they know that the writer of said statement intended to > hurt them specifically. It kind of sounds like mind reading in that > the uninttending attacker has to read the mind of the attackee to > know AH this will really p*ss this one off and then goes ahead and > posts it anyway. On the other hand the supposed attacked may have a > world view that assumes all comments are attacks, or the supposed > attacker has a personal vendetta that is a known fact. This seems > pretty convoluted to me. Maybe we just need to laugh more and worry > less. Tom T I agree. There is a fair amount of assuming motives, moods, agendas, and intentions on FFL. And Life. Its pretty funny at times. Unless you really know a person well, in person, for years (and even then its problematic), it is a cognitive error to attribute moods, intentions and all. Its stuff in one's head that is shaping their vision. OTOT, a working set of hypotheses of a persons moods and intentions may help one be more sesnsitive. For example, thinking, "It sounds like he MAY be mad at something. Just in case, I will be careful not to use ambiguous language, or jokes that might be misinterprested." Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
Judy writes: Sure. But it would be more accurate to say (of the ant and Barry), "That isn't the kind of attack that can do you any damage." What makes it an attack is the intention of the attacker, not the effect on the attackee. Tom T: The thought stopper for me in this was who and how is the intention of the attacker known. By inferrence it can not be an atack until the intention is known so it starts out as just a statement intended to cause a laugh. At some point it would appeat that the person recieving the statement intending to cause a laugh has to go inside and make a judgement that they know that the writer of said statement intended to hurt them specifically. It kind of sounds like mind reading in that the uninttending attacker has to read the mind of the attackee to know AH this will really p*ss this one off and then goes ahead and posts it anyway. On the other hand the supposed attacked may have a world view that assumes all comments are attacks, or the supposed attacker has a personal vendetta that is a known fact. This seems pretty convoluted to me. Maybe we just need to laugh more and worry less. Tom T Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > And then there is the one-on-one put down. Not the most refined > > > > behavior. But for it to be an attack, to draw blood, the > insultee > > > > has to play victim and accept it as an insult. > > > > > > "For it to be an attack" and "for it to draw blood" are two > > > different things, as I've noted a couple of times now. An > > > attack that fails to draw blood is still an attack. > > > > Well I am not sure I agree. > > > > For, example, if an ant gets mad at you, and tries to "get" you, I > > would not consider that an attack. Not something I would report to > > the police as an assault. They would laugh. "The ant has no > > ability to hurt you." they would laugh. "Thats not an attack". > > > > I sort feel the same way about Barry. > > And yet you've now written hundreds of lines of > text in quite a few posts since the ant laughed > at you, defending yourself and your ideas. Just > think what how much verbiage we all would've had > to wade through if it had been a "real" attack. > > :-) :-) :-) A real ant attack? Sounds more funny than scary. Many posts? I wrote one post on the role of the intellect, to figure out what is not. Just a clarification, since it appears to be such a strange idea to many. I have pretty much stayed out of the laugh-attack -- other than to start this thread -- the theme of which seems to be consistant with yours -- laughing "at" is not really an attack. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > And then there is the one-on-one put down. Not the most refined > > > > behavior. But for it to be an attack, to draw blood, the > insultee > > > > has to play victim and accept it as an insult. > > > > > > "For it to be an attack" and "for it to draw blood" are two > > > different things, as I've noted a couple of times now. An > > > attack that fails to draw blood is still an attack. > > > > Well I am not sure I agree. > > > > For, example, if an ant gets mad at you, and tries to "get" you, I > > would not consider that an attack. Not something I would report to > > the police as an assault. They would laugh. "The ant has no > > ability to hurt you." they would laugh. "Thats not an attack". > > > > I sort feel the same way about Barry. > > And yet you've now written hundreds of lines of > text in quite a few posts since the ant laughed > at you, defending yourself and your ideas. Just > think what how much verbiage we all would've had > to wade through if it had been a "real" attack. > > :-) :-) :-) A real ant attack? Sounds more funny than scarry. Many posts? I wrote one post on the role of the intellect, to figure out what is not. Just a clarification, since it appears to be such a strange idea to many. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > And then there is the one-on-one put down. Not the most refined > > > behavior. But for it to be an attack, to draw blood, the insultee > > > has to play victim and accept it as an insult. > > > > "For it to be an attack" and "for it to draw blood" are two > > different things, as I've noted a couple of times now. An > > attack that fails to draw blood is still an attack. > > Well I am not sure I agree. > > For, example, if an ant gets mad at you, and tries to "get" you, I > would not consider that an attack. Not something I would report to > the police as an assault. They would laugh. "The ant has no ability > to hurt you." they would laugh. "Thats not an attack". > > I sort feel the same way about Barry. Sure. But it would be more accurate to say (of the ant and Barry), "That isn't the kind of attack that can do you any damage." What makes it an attack is the intention of the attacker, not the effect on the attackee. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > And then there is the one-on-one put down. Not the most refined > > > behavior. But for it to be an attack, to draw blood, the insultee > > > has to play victim and accept it as an insult. > > > > "For it to be an attack" and "for it to draw blood" are two > > different things, as I've noted a couple of times now. An > > attack that fails to draw blood is still an attack. > > > Well I am not sure I agree. > > For, example, if an ant gets mad at you, and tries to "get" you, I > would not consider that an attack. Not something I would report to > the police as an assault. They would laugh. "The ant has no ability to > hurt you." they would laugh. "Thats not an attack". > > I sort feel the same way about Barry. But regardless of how we define "attack", if one does not play victim, no one can touch them with mere words. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > And then there is the one-on-one put down. Not the most refined > > > behavior. But for it to be an attack, to draw blood, the insultee > > > has to play victim and accept it as an insult. > > > > "For it to be an attack" and "for it to draw blood" are two > > different things, as I've noted a couple of times now. An > > attack that fails to draw blood is still an attack. > > Well I am not sure I agree. > > For, example, if an ant gets mad at you, and tries to "get" you, I > would not consider that an attack. Not something I would report to > the police as an assault. They would laugh. "The ant has no > ability to hurt you." they would laugh. "Thats not an attack". > > I sort feel the same way about Barry. And yet you've now written hundreds of lines of text in quite a few posts since the ant laughed at you, defending yourself and your ideas. Just think what how much verbiage we all would've had to wade through if it had been a "real" attack. :-) :-) :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > And then there is the one-on-one put down. Not the most refined > > behavior. But for it to be an attack, to draw blood, the insultee > > has to play victim and accept it as an insult. > > "For it to be an attack" and "for it to draw blood" are two > different things, as I've noted a couple of times now. An > attack that fails to draw blood is still an attack. Well I am not sure I agree. For, example, if an ant gets mad at you, and tries to "get" you, I would not consider that an attack. Not something I would report to the police as an assault. They would laugh. "The ant has no ability to hurt you." they would laugh. "Thats not an attack". I sort feel the same way about Barry. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > And then there is the one-on-one put down. Not the most refined > behavior. But for it to be an attack, to draw blood, the insultee > has to play victim and accept it as an insult. "For it to be an attack" and "for it to draw blood" are two different things, as I've noted a couple of times now. An attack that fails to draw blood is still an attack. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
