Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
Hi! This RBL, even if is a bit extremist, is something used by a few of our customers's commercial spam filtering product. I'd say they should stop using it. If somebody has a dog that bites everybody who wears black or green, the solution is not everybody wearing orange and blue, the solution is to train the dog to behave properly or stop visiting them at all. If somebody uses RBL that has a cowboy attitude of block first, think maybe later then they need as much education by their users as ISPs do - up to stopping using their services and saying they are just harmful. During the years I've encountered my share of overzealous and irresponsible RBL maintainers, and sometimes the best way to deal with them is just not using them and saying others to not use them, period. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
Hi! This dog is not biting those who wear black or green. This dog is biting ISP's who let their users send spam. I hate spam as much as the next guy - probably more, since I have to keep publicly available mailing addresses for my job. But at the end it comes to the point where people who have nothing to do with spam or all those arguments around how to handle spam - they get harmed. They get their mails lost and their business disrupted. And when this happens and RBL people take position of we'll just block whatever we want and until everybody complies with our demands we'll not move then it is time to remind them they are not kings of the world either. If they do more harm then good, then it's time to show them the door. Blocking whole countries is no solution for spam and whoever does this is just behaving childishly and irresponsibly. I do not believe anybody seriously thinks the users will be better off getting no email from any Israeli address at all. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Career advice needed
course), get travel directions and so on - have been solved problems by 1992 or so. It was just a matter of being able to work the They were solved in theory. In practice, AFAIK there were next to no applications - at least ones accessible to average user, don't know what happened in the military or other government business - that did it. Neither the server nor the flash client are done by web programmers. I don't know how you define web programmer but client side was what I talked about. Including Flash/Flex, AJAX, soon-to-be Silverlight and others. server. All of the interesting stuff is done in the server. Some semi- interesting things are done in the flash client (things HTML is incapable of - zoom, pan, vector graphics, texts drawn in angles or following a path...) HTML is capable of many of that, BTW - with some help from Javascript/CSS of course. And will be capable of more as future web standards get developed and supported (canvas, SVG, whole HTML 5 business). = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Career advice needed
you can build using the HTTP protocol that I'm sick of - web services, forms, buttons, integrity checks. Oh, and Javascript is, in fact, my least favourite platform. I find it unreliable, with compatibility problems between platforms, and it's generally being used in order to force HTML to do things it is not supposed to do. Eventually you may have nice interfaces, but they are interfaces into nothing. If there is anything interesting to be done on the backend, it's I would disagree here. I think what is happening in this area is the return of HTML to what it meant to be, only better. The applications are moving towards the old MVC paradigm, where HTML moves back towards the Model (though you can use other model data source, like JSON or XML sources), CSS takes over much of the View and Javascript makes Controller. There's still some uncleanness (especially that data and GUI are still mixed) and some growing pains but I think it's where the things are heading to, and it's a healthy direction. As a result, nowdays HTMLs become more clean - as CSS/JS begin to allow to do what they were meant to do from the start - provide presentation layer over the independent content layer. The truth is that all web applications are just sugar coated information systems, and nowadays, with Ajax, they are really no different than the client-server applications people used to write back in the late '80s and early '90s. Yes and no. Yes because it's not that there's new computer science being born or something :), no - because things are being done that weren't done before, because now it's easier for people to do them. As an example, let's look at one of the tons of google maps mashups - which *are* very useful if google maps covers the area you are interested in - too bad Israel isn't covered :( - and see how something like that was done in 80s. The answer is - it wasn't done. Such applications just didn't exist. Of course, there's a ton of boring stuff and needless bells and whistles there too - can't be helped, that's Sturgeon's Second Law at work. But there's some cool stuff too. But then again, if you don't feel interested in it - definitely don't do it. There's always a ton of other things to do :) = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Career advice needed
Would like to learn MBA or marketing? Languages will change one another, but economic will lasts forever. It's not 6 monthes, however. Also, not having any marketing experience would mean very base-level job for at least a number of years, I think. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Career advice needed
I want to do something new. That's why I asked what the current market demands are. I have an opportunity to change. The choice what to change to depends on what's available, and out of what's available I'm hoping to select what will seem the most interesting to me, given the time and money constraints. If you want to stay in web arena, but not deal much with LAMP anymore, you may try to go client-side - rich applications, AJAX, etc. These days I think it is becoming a real programming market. Not sure if there's easy to find such job without it being combined with design (which are two entirely different jobs, but not everybody understands it). It doesn't have to do much with Linux, though :) = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Investment house
I'm sick and tired of the my bank (discount) support for firefox. I'm looking for an Israeli investment house with a decent internet portal that works well with firefox/linux. I heard that all Israeli private investment companies use the same platform (I believe it's called ordernet or something like that) which is IE only and is not great even at that, so I wouldn't set hopes too high to find anything working in Firefox. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Firefox and any credit card services company
I know, that Isracard's website works if you use User Agent Switcher extension of Firefox. What is status of Mozilla/Firefox support of websites of other Israel-accessible credit cards? Share your experiences please! For CAL site, it is possible to log in if you switch user agent. Then you can see most of the things, but top menu works only partially so it's hard to access some functions, and the design is broken by silly news scroller. Also, clicking on some links does not work but produces some technical problems message, though the same function might very well work if accessed differently (i.e. menu ws. link on the page). = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Freedom of speech online
me :-) Maybe they're more afraid from nonviolent terrorists than from violent ones. After all, I do admit to the most dangerous crime of being a pacifist. It's contagious! Uri, I think I want to express my gratitude to you for the first-class entertainment you are providing on the list. Observing people to openly get in touch with their tinfoil-hat side is a refreshing addition to the routine boredom of distributions and configuration tweaks. Good job! Wish you luck in your struggle against the mighty Big SMTP Brother and his omnipresent IP-minions. Please keep us posted if you discover that Mossad had replaced our government with insectoid aliens. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PHP unexpectedly speaking Hebrew on me - explanation found
It seems that an Israeli PHP programmer (probably working for Zend) didn't know how to say double colon in English, so he coded the token's name in transliterated Hebrew (Zend/zend_language_scanner.l, Well, almost true, but not entirely. The Israeli programmer are actually Zeev Suraski and Andi Gutmans, who are Israeli and who wrote the engine for PHP 3 and who later indeed created the Zend company. They know very well how to say double colon in English, but this token name was a kind of inside joke and it was left there for PHP 4 and 5 and will be there in PHP 6. This joke, as you imagine, is known to everybody in business and is listed in all online resources like Wikipedia for years. You can consider it a sort of easter egg (btw, there is at least one other easter egg in PHP :) Now I'm wondering whether to submit a patch? In any case, google knows You might do that, but chances of it being accepted are zero :) Google and Wikipedia rule, however. = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Wpedia nitpick was: PHP speaking Hebrew
ARRGH!! this is why I have a speck of disrespect for Wikipedia. you can't call yourself an encyclopedia and actually compare sizes with the Britanica in terms of number of articles, when more than half of your articles (or maybe over 90%?) are about in-jokes, TV series, TV series' characters and episodes (see the simpsons and lost), movies, programs Well, apparently there are different things for different purposes. If you want to know the biography of Gaius Cornelius Tacitus, then maybe Britannica would be better for you (though the wiki can do it too) but if you want PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM or Snoopy's character traits, nothing compares to the wikipedia :) Why not? that's what Rob Makda'a Everything2 is for, isn't it? That's like saying Linux is irrelevant since there's already FreeBSD ;) = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Looking for another ISP (a bit off topic)
GD Switching ISP might not solve the problem... It's just a matter of time GD till all other ISPs follow suite. That might depend on how many users would leave Netvision and tell them the reason they left is the bandwidth limitations. If there's enough the idea might seem less appealing to other ISPs. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-54-6524945 /\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bank Leumi site lack of adherence to web standards
MZ Installing wine and winetools on Fedora core is simple with apt, yum MZ or synaptic. Installing internet explorer is then just five button MZ clicks on winetools GUI. I tried today to install IE on Wine on FC4. For starters, there are about 5 ways to install it. I tried winetools way, and it didn't work. I tried various hacky ways which were described on the sites posted recently - it didn't work either. I tried ies4linux way - it worked, but IE didn't show hebrew in normal way (and since most of the sites that I need and are IE-only are Israeli sites this makes it close to useless for me) - it shows in reverse and in some weird fonts. I tried all ways of installing fonts I could find - copied them in .wine/c/windows/fonts, in /usr/share/wine/fonts and where not - nothing changed, hebrew broken. Anybody knows how to fix it? I tried looking up but none of the advices I found - like copying fonts, etc. - helped much. Anybody knows a fix for it? MZ How much simpler can CXOffice be? I didn't use it, but I tried installing wine, so I can say there's definitely some space for improvement. You know, like I install it and it works - some apps do that :) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-54-6524945 /\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: please enlighten me
OA Americans, specifically of the U.S. type (Canadians are OK and south OA americans I can deal with), are - generally - very stupid. (I'm talking That's the most idiotic remark I have read on the list in years. Congratulations on the achievement. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-54-6524945 /\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [off topic] Wikipedia Jimmy Wales
If we're so much offtopic... NH dollars to pour into his defence, and another guy can literally get away NH with murder in criminal court, and yet be found guilty in a civilian court. That happens because the burden of proof in the civil court is lower than in the criminal court. And that is because civil courts mostly deal with matters of money and such and with conflicts between citizens, while criminal courts can use incanceration and sometimes even death penalty and represent the state against citizens. Since the state has superior power and is the only entity that is entitled to use violence up to, in certain circumstances, killing humans, it is considered reasonable that this exercise of power is restricted by requiring high degree of certainity that the actions are indeed correct and just. Sometimes it happens that due to the circumstances or the incompetence of the state's agents this degree can not be reached, and thus the power of the state can not be exercised in these cases. It is, of course, regretful, but results of an unrestricted exercise of the state power would be much more regretful. Of course, those with more money can more successully exploit said circumstances and incompetence, because they are able to hire better professionals and more of them. That does not meanthe law is different for rich and poor, just that the rich has more chance to achieve proper execution of the law. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-54-6524945 /\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [off topic] Wikipedia Jimmy Wales
UE happens in Wikipedia and it happens in the police, army or any system UE where people have power. But in Wikipedia there is nowhere to complain. UE Nobody will do anything to people who abuse their power. So UE eventually, I think Wikipedia is corrupt. You won't believe if I told you what happens in paper encyclopedia. These evil pits of corruption are ruled by absolute dictators hiding under the name of editors, and not only they are not obliged to accept input from anybody - everybody is actually permanently banned from making any change into their work even before it is published and remains banned forever! And there's no place you can complain except to the dictator editors themselves and even then there's absolutely no way to ensure that they would accept your correction or at least note its existance in the proper place in the next release of their so called encyclopedia. I can not believe something so corrupt is not only allowed to exist but actually is referred to as an ultimate information source! Some people have no shame, indeed. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-54-6524945 /\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My Anti-qmail Page
iF I set up an anti-qmail page at: iF iF http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/anti/qmail/ I think that if you make some claims (like: qmail lags behind other MTA's in its feature-set), it is good to substantiate them, like say which features it lacks and how important are they. With that, it is worth to verify if patches exist for qmail that do that and state that too. The same for all other talking points. Then the page would look more like a credible resourse than a rant. Not that I have something against rants, everybody likes a good rant now and then, but opening a webpage just for that... I think they had invented blogs for that purpose ;) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-54-6524945 /\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Connecting from Linux to MSN Messenger?
RR on RH9; it was quite a time ago ; I don't remember the RR exact details of configuration (it could be that I downloaded some plugin) I use GAIM to connect to MSN, AIM, ICQ and googletalk, and it works perfectly. It can do more protocols, generally, I just have nobody to talk to with them :) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-54-6524945 /\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PC-to-phone VoIP
GSM That's not quite it. My argument is that someone richer than I am GSM comes along and gives away free water until everyone else goes out GSM of the bucket business and then starts charging. Actually, in our case it's someone signs agreement with municipality workers, so they probably start charging from the start, but municipality is doing charging services for them so citizens think it's free since they see it in their municipal tax bills and not billed separately. And municipality workers are reelected because they provided a vital service for citizens for free and are so technologically advanced. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-54-6524945 /\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: A new venture - preventing spam
UE mail from [EMAIL PROTECTED] (for example), which is desirable. Right UE now it's technically possible for anybody to send mail from UE [EMAIL PROTECTED], although in some sense it's illegal. But spammers UE don't care much about laws. I think the problem is not technical here - I can think of a few methods to implement sender verification with minimal adjustment to existing protocols and with introducing entirely new ones. The problem here is that until the significant part of the email-sending crowd does not use that method, whatever it be, you can not reliably filter your email based on this method. Meaning, corporate clients probably won't pay for implementing such a method - or would not pay enough for this feature to become necessary in every common software. Which means, common software won't have it or won't rely on it - back to square one. Now, there are two obvious ways out of this vicious circle: 1. Widespread world-wide conspiracy of sysadmins and programmers to implement and install the protocol. 2. Adoption of the protocol by some company like Microsoft or IBM that can make anything an industry standard. As they say, nobody ever got fired for buying IBM, and I'd add - for following IBM (or Microsoft) advice either. So if they say it's a good way to fight spam/viruses/etc - whatever it be it probably would get widespread acceptance - enough to catch momentum. And more importantly - enough to make those who didn't implement it yet somewhat uncomfortable - like when users ask administrator why our clients complain that emails from our company come out as 'Unaunticated sender - probably spammer!' in Outlook - please fix it ASAP. Network effect is required for such things. UE OK, we can do without SSL certificates, but we can't do without UE domain names and DNS. Some things have to be centralized. But I UE agree that my proposed solution will have to deal with a lot of UE beurocracy. It is not easy to authenticate a person even in RL - identity theft and various scams are not unheard of, and it is much harder online when you can't see or touch a thing. However, most of the cases with email for the recipient it is enough to know that the sender of the email is authorized by the domain administrator to send it. At least, for detecting email forgery it would be enough - and mass-hosters of course would have to implement some internal mechanism to not allow users impersonate one another - but this would be outside of the email communication domain. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-54-6524945 /\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: A new venture - preventing spam
OA Microsoft has announced that starting this November (11/2005) Hotmail OA will implement Sender ID(*) notifications to clients - when an email OA is received w/o Sender ID verification the user will be displayed OA with a warning bar. I'm assuming this is kind of adoption you were OA thinking of ? Yes, partially. Except that it would better be open standard (your (*)) and it should be implemented strategically - i.e. not only in Hotmail but in Exchange, Outlook, etc. OA mainly as MS are known to do only things that promote their OA proprietary protocols and not others. IBM is probably not much That is not entirely correct, at least for now - they are vigorously promoting any protocols or standards they chose, but they do value standartization and open protocols lately - e.g. most of their .net specs are public. While there is no doubt that they have their own agenda and would promote it, it would not necessary contradict with my needs or OSS software developers' and users' needs. Last but not least, I think I can tolerate protocol controlled by some Big Corporate Entity, provided the protocol itself is public and possible to implement independently and that it is actually used and accepted. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-54-6524945 /\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Acting against anti-file-swapping Lawsuits in Israel
UB Your own argument was based on may more people see nothing wrong UB with it - so many people are only relevant when they appear to UB support your view? No. The point was people actually are divided on that - and there aren't many things that are illegal and immoral (meaning by that that it is universally accepted it is immoral) and still many people do it and consider OK to do it. The very fact that many people do it and consider it OK to do it makes the immorality questionable - it does not automatically means it is OK, but it requires additional justification to show why it is immoral even though it is custom and accepted. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-54-6524945 /\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Acting against anti-file-swapping Lawsuits in Israel
GSM Yes. Your house of cards is built on the concept that copyrighted GSM material is not intelectual property. In most countries it is. The IP is a very peculiar concept - it's a property for the thing that is not scarce. You have regular property right on, say, your car because cars are scarce - you can't have them as much as you want without digging up metals and oil and other resources and performing other costly operations on _each_ car - i.e. you can not create a new car easily, so if someone took your car and you would be deprived of the car, you would suffer. However, thoughts are not scarce (at least I hope nobody in whose head they are scarce would read this :) - you can repeat same thought without much effort and if I took a thought from you, you would not suffer any loss - you still had the same one. Thus, concept of property on the thought (which is at base of the most of the IP) is radically different from other kinds of property. Thus, equating violating regular property rights and violating IP rights would just add mess to the discussion - even if we wanted to discourage both, they are different things. GSM Just because someone else placed it out on the internet for you to GSM steal does not make it right. In this case it would be ok for me to GSM walk into your home and clean it out if someone else opened the GSM door. If you manage to clean it out and leave everything in place and in precisely the same condition at the same time - why not? If you manage to do so without violating my privacy - I see no problem with that. GSM electricity, food, etc. Some people need to make a living and choose GSM to do it by their creativity. Just because you don't dosen't give you GSM the right to steal from them. The fact that they want to earn their money by some way doesn't give them by itself any right to demand money from anybody. It is true that the state can force people to pay, but this does not _automatically_ means this is just. If you want to prove the need of paying for copyrighted works beyond the trivial point of it's the law, so shut up and obey or go to jail - the argument along the lines of artists like to earn money this way is no good - I'd like to have a law so that anybody I meet on the street paid me a thousand dollars for encounter rights but you would agree that such a law would not be just. Neither legality nor usefulness of a thing to somebody is a proof that this thing is a good thing. You need better proof. GSM Do you get payed to program? Please give me the names of three companies GSM that paid you to program for them so I can ask for copies of the code. GSM After all, since they are not real property, I'm entitled to them. No, you are not. Sunlight is owned by nobody, but that doesn't mean if you want sunlight at night, you are entitled to get it. If you manage to get it - good for you, if you don't - tough luck. GSM Absolute ethics? Absolute bullsh*t. As I said at the begining it's GSM against the law of the land just about everywhere. If you don't like Law and ethics are different things. In ideal, law should be based on ethics, in practice, they sometimes happen to be the exact opposite... -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-54-6524945 /\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Acting against anti-file-swapping Lawsuits in Israel
GSM It's taking of something that you don't have permission to. If that GSM is not stealing, what is? I hereby deny you permission to breath the air. You are still breathing. Are you stealing, are you a thief? GSM Note that without copyright laws the GPL would not exist. It would be Actually, I don't see absolute value in GPL existance. With all due respect to RMS, his crusade against commercial software vendors doesn't seem very important to me. Creating free software does seem, but I'm not sure how much the restrictive nature of GPL had contributed to the free software growth. Actually, I experienced numerous cases and heard about even more cases that people had to rewrite certain pieces of code just to get around GPL restrictions - which seems to me the contrary to the purposes of the free software as I see them. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-54-6524945 /\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Acting against anti-file-swapping Lawsuits in Israel
UB That's the everybody's doing it argument. There's a whole of a lot UB of immoral and illegal stuff you can justify with that. Actually, I have hard time thinking about anything illegal and immoral that a lot of people are doing and even more people see nothing bad in doing even if they don't do it themselves. Could you name, say, three such things, not related to IP laws? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-54-6524945 /\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Acting against anti-file-swapping Lawsuits in Israel
EE Many people are also avoiding taxes or not follow traffic rules. Do EE you think we need to change our laws to fit what is comfortable to EE most people? Actually, what can be the nobler purpose for the law if not making life more comfortable to the most people? ;) EE is chosen by the majority, and if it decides on a law that says EE a certain part of the land will be evacuated, then it *will*. Law created by people can be abolished by people, though in this case it ineed seems unlikely. Also, civil disobedience practice has deeps roots in democratic societies and actually had brought change in laws and policies numerous times - though, again, I don't think this instance would succeed. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-54-6524945 /\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Acting against anti-file-swapping Lawsuits in Israel
IZ Domino Effect? Music for example pays salaries of numerous of people, IZ allowing them to be able to buy other products and services, and by that IZ help other people receive a paycheck. Producing and trading copyrighted If music industry ceased to exist, these people without any doubt would find for themselves other profitable activites. There are so much things to do in this world that it is not reasonable to believe anybody could work in music industry and no other place. It is true that some people (especially people earning obscene amount of money for doing things that seem like total c**p to me ;) would suffer some income loss - so, these things happen and that's the way of life. Each day of the stock market trade can bring example of people losing money, and each bankrupcy filing is full of such stories. I see nothing special in music industry that would entitle it to special protection. Moreover, I have no doubts that if copyright laws would tomorrow be abolished, music industry would find a way to make profits by other meeans - in a matter of weeks. Human genius has no limits, and there's absolutely no reason to suppose current state of things is the only possible or sustainable one. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-54-6524945 /\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Acting against anti-file-swapping Lawsuits in Israel
IZ You seem to forget that the music industry is only one of the MANY IZ industries who rely on the copyrights laws. All these industries IZ provide work and job places for many other industries and etc. etc. IZ etc. I do not forget this - I just considered it obvious that everything applying to music industry can be in the same way applied to any other industry of similiar nature. Now, industries providing job places is a very misleading tem - job place is not a privilege distributed by industries, it is an activity that is beneficial to the others (actually, so very beneficial that it allows not only the individual to profit from it but also helps other members of the industry to profit). Now, if it is not enough beneficial by itself so it needs laws to coerce citizens to pay for some activity they would not pay otherwise - then I am inclined to think that this activity is not as good and necessary to the society as they present it. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-54-6524945 /\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Acting against anti-file-swapping Lawsuits in Israel
UB There are a lot of people who believe, as I do, that disrespecting IP is UB immoral. So your presentation of it is misleading, and your question is UB better unasked. OK, they do believe so, so what? My point is entirely different - that there are not many things that everybody does it but it is still siscerely considered illegal and immoral (note that people also could proclaim something immoral and privately consider it moral out of conformism). In most cases, this points out that the issue is not as clear-cut as the partisans from both sides would like others to believe. UB Artist spend a lot of time and sometimes money, to bring their to UB where you can enjoy them. You ask, no, you DEMAND, free and unlimited UB access to their product. What right have you to demand that? I do not demand anything. Why should I demand what I already have? This is him who demands from me to cease certain activities he dislikes or he would make the state use the violence against me. Now, if I had not such an access, we could argue if I could demand it from him - and I would agree I could not and had no reason to, and if I wanted one and he would not willingly give me one, I would have to find out one by myself. However, this hypotetical discussion is not to the point since I already have everything I need, so I don't have to demand anything. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-54-6524945 /\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How do you upgrade RH without booting from CD?
SD too old to recognize newer larger drives. Is it still possible (I SD know it used to be on older distros of RH) to boot off a floppy and I had sucessfully booted and run Linux on the machine with old BIOS and large HD - from the floppy. However, I didn't go through install since I have copied system from old smaller disk, but I don't think there should be a problem with install either - you probably can make a grub boot floppy and then tell grub to continue booting from the CD. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-54-6524945 /\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bank Leumi Web Access (again ;-( )
GD Seems like a normal service-down problem. God knows it happens GD *alot* to the Internet Explorer site too... I once had these messages for a couple of days straight with IE. Then I called their support and they told me to enable various security settings for the bank hostname (put it in trust zone, etc.) and it worked instantly. Thus, I think this is not a normal service-down. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-54-6524945 /\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
New software for old RedHat systems (like 6.2)
Is there anybody out there who still uses system like RedHat 6.2? If so, do you know if there's some good people out there who build new software releases for it? I am mostly interested in Mozilla, but some other new software would be good too. Building it myself, before you ask, is not a good alternative, since I have here some Pentium 200 machine (yes, it works perfectly well and I do not want to uprade it just yet) which may make building Mozilla a very long task... On the other hand, did anyone have experience with running recent distribution releases (such as Fedora or maybe Gentoo) on such machines (Pentium 200, 128M)? I suspect they are too much graphics for my poor old fellow, but I could be underestimating it... What do you think? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-54-6524945 /\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New software for old RedHat systems (like 6.2)
TC That's because you use memory-hungry programs. You don't have TC to. I'm pretty happy using FVWM2 as window manager and xterm+pine for reading mail and mozilla for browsing (it doesn't even use much of a swap). Mozilla is a bit slow, but not to the point of being a problem. The only reason why I actually want a new Mozilla is because the version I have keeps crashing every couple of days (and in most cases, right in the middle of lengthy posting I write to some forum or blog, so that it really manages to piss me off). So one doesn't have to use memory- and CPU-hungry programs, indeed. The only problem is that most of new distributions are configured to use them by default in many places (and it's generally right thing to do , just not the right thing for me). -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-54-6524945 /\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: zk rootkit
AVK that I, for some strange reason, can not delete. Whenever I AVK try to change, delete, erase or do anything of the sort with AVK them - I get the permission denied error. Even if I do that AVK with my own removal code, writte from try chattr -i filename. They may have immutable attribute set, which prevents file from being deleted even by root. See man chattr. Of course, before that, if we talking about contaminated machine, verify that chattr is the original one :) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-54-6524945 /\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux 2.2 and Intel e1000 cards
I am trying to install an Intel Gigabit ethernet card (PRO/1000 MT model) on the machine running 2.2 kernel. I use e1000 driver version 4.3.15 from Intel - and it doesn't work. With 2.4 (on other machines) and 5.x version of the same drive for 2.4 everything works good, and the card is working, however I need to get it to work with 2.2 too, if possible - and Intel doesn't have driver version 5 for 2.2. Did anybody had any expirience with such kind of a problem? Is upgrade to 2.4 the only way to make it work? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-54-6524945 /\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: yad-vashem.org.il Hebrew site not accessible from non-IE!
IK Can you see a governmental body make a change just to please the citizen IK (rather than to please the superiors)? In such simple case as this (needs just removing silly blocking javascript), it probably would be done if the email reaches the right person in the GB. In more complicated cases, it depends. Usually such change means they need to go to the site designers - which are usually some external company, chosen somewhere is the past for reasons hardky including Web standards compliance, unless the person in charge in the GB is uncommonly enlightened. Now, the site designers had already received their money, so they would either say it's impossible to make it better, or would require some additional sum of money - probably a substantial sum, why not, they do not have to compete anymore at this stage of the game. Usually, the person in chage in GB does not possess the expertise to know if the change is as complicated as design company claims or costs as much as they ask. So either he would - on his own risk - convince his superiors to allocate the additional budget - for improving the apparently working site - in which case advocacy could help, or he would pressure the design company into doing it with lower (or null) cost, arguing the web standards support is so important that any site not providing it is in fact malfunctioning. And here advocacy is even more important, since before convincing anybody about that would require the person in charge - again, probably not a very technical person - to be convinced. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-66-524945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT]nesws regarding vigros chicks
DI no ones buy merchandise which was promoted with spam mail. at DI least most of us don't. No one works with Windows. At least most of us don't. ;) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-66-524945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT]nesws regarding vigros chicks
NH of 10,000,000 copies for $1000 and pays them. The spam provider NH guarantees nothing beyond this - they do not guarantee any ROI. Actually, from what I have read in Wired, some spamvertizers work for sales percentage, and they make a good buck on it, from what they say. NH Often, I believe, the spamvertiser will find that he is getting NH mounds of hate mail, legal threats, and very little, if any, NH ROI, but he has already paid his $1000. Having seen the From the same Wired article, it turns out not to be exactly the case. I.e., it might be, but there are examples of spamvertized businesses being profitable. Surprisingly, there are a lot of people out there wishing to elongate their reproductive organs with pills at $50 a bottle. Provided these pills cost the producer about $5 a bottle and the spammer gets $10 per order - looks good for them both. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-66-524945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The Proliferation of Linux and its Effect on Programmers
OG Most of the reports I've seen make an unattributed (editorial?) OG statement that our Treasury is after Thai-style discounts on MSOffice OG more than after FLOSS or open standards. Can anyone in the know OG confirm or deny this? I cannot do either, but, logically thinking, I would not be surprised if it was true. After all, one of the duties of the Treasury - ideally - is to make government services to do most with least possible budget. If they can get this done by scaring Microsoft into large discounts - very good (for them). It is not their direct duty to support open source movement. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-66-524945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Analysis of the Y1 authentication scheme (RE: An approach I made to 1st yashir bank)
SS2e11 possibilities this field is now only the number of SScities in Israel (less than 1000, I think), with some Good luck guessing my city of birth this way :) But, in fact, your concerns are very real - I, for instance, know these details for quite a few people just out of generic conversations, etc. SS anyone about it. I even worked out a scheme where I can do this SS practically using only a cell-phone frequency scanner. I feel this Aren't cellular conversations encrypted? I though they should be long ago... -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-66-524945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: happy birthday!
OK that's not surprising. heck, even i do not like Israel and I OK live here. A hell of a good audience you have chosen to proclaim urbi et orbi about it. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-66-524945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fw: What's wrong with this code?
BR Isn't that a demonstration of the *real* (no FUD) open source model BR security break points? Well, that looks like open source _strong_ point. If the same code was closed, what chance someone - except, of course, for original programmer and probably his associates - would notice that? If, say, Windows function GetProcessSomeObscureAttribute would get you administrator privilege for some combination of flags - what is a chance someone would ever discover that? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-66-524945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ???: Re: ???: http://www.orange.co.il/catalog/ is unviewable in Mozilla {ID:36786727} (fwd)
GF The orange site is payed for by your money (as a client) and as part of GF the service you are entitled to. What also surprises me is that in your face attitude of the webmaster. Like: we like our site and if you don't, screw you. Though, most isrraely companies did not grow out of the stage where they think of a corporate webside as a cool toy and not as customer service tool. I wonder would they, say, sell mobile phones that operate only in Hungarian and say to the customers - we think Hungarian is a magnificent language and we spent a lot of money to get such phones. I think somehow this line of behaviour would not fit them. But for websites that's not only acceptable, that's actually the code of behaviour for Israeli corporate web presense. So sad. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-66-524945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: AOL doesn't accept mail - free relaying of email
AB And they should. They should suffer for choosing an ISP that AB disrespects its own acceptable use policy, and gets itself into AB some kind of blackhole or another. What the customer must do is Oh come on. It is a common knowledge that at least some of these relays are too quick to add whole netblocks and too slow to explain why they did that or how to make this not happen again. And the ISP couldn't care less what some freak out there thinks about its policies - its responcibility is its own paying clients and not convinvcing some trigger-happy sysadmin jumping out of his pants to be BOFH-like and blacklist whatever possible without too much investigation. It is impossible to prevent sending email from a customer of an ISP to any address on the internet - be the mail contents UCE or not. It is not possible for the ISP to know if the content of the message is UCE or not. So what the hell you want them to do? Cut their own throats by terminating contracts with paying customers just because some obsucre email address claiming to be sysadmin demands that? This all spam blocking fun have gotten by far out of proportion nowdays. Every week, and later - almost every other day I hear from legitimate users having their legitimate emails blocked because of some spamblocking usually from third-party relay lists that answer along the line of somebody from your country once sent spam, so we blocked the whole class A - if you want to send email again, you better choose another country to live or piss off. Do you propose for these users to start hopping ISPs (on the way convincing all relatives and acquaintances to change their address books) in hope they will find one that would satisfy the spamblockers? Do you really think this is the solution for anything? For the spammer to change ISP is a matter of one configuration setting in his spam machine. For the legitimate Joe User is like moving to another city. So who do you want to punish? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ADSL - What is the current recommendation?
HMhttp://www.ezbuyus.co.il/ HM Which doesn't work with Mozilla either - at least their price calculator throws errors instead of working. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Israeli NTP server with support for Day Light Savings
But do other distributions keep the Israeli timezone up-to-date out of the box? I didn't know about the link above and didn't have to go AFAIK that's impossible to keep Israeli timezone up-to-date out of the box for a prolonged period of times - Israeli timezone is not fixed but set by the Knesset on case-by-case basis. Unless I have missed something and sanity made a small victory in this field. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OS-X rules, X sucks (Was: Forthcoming Blitz of Announcements)
SF Actually, they said that no beginner needs a two button mouse. SF And if you ever gave tech support to beginners (or SF not-so-beginners) you will appreciate that. The OS supports out Come on. I gave support to five year child (the real one, not proverbial) and she was perfectly able to know to handle the mouse. It took about couple of days to teach her what it is and what it means, but it is certainly doable. After all, everybody of us three-buttons-and-wheel geniuses was novice once. I don't by this people are idiots thing. Most people aren't _that_ idiotic. SF When the application is in the background, what would you need it's SF menu for anyway? You still need to click on it to get it into focus Guess what, I have more than one applications in foreground. Actually, for me amost all of them are in foreground. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OS-X rules, X sucks (Was: Forthcoming Blitz of Announcements)
HM go. No. What GNU/Linux (or BSD, or my mother) should learn is that to HM design a good human interface, you need to research that topic and find Actually I'm not sure that MACs nobody needs more than one button on mouse, nobody wants two user menus on the screen or user menu attached to the actual application it belongs to, let's invent a number of modifier keys and call them with confusing icons instead of names user interface ideas can be called good. There's a lot of very confusing UI stuff in Mac, which is not seen to a Mac devotee, but is obvious to the fresh eye. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OS-X rules, X sucks (Was: Forthcoming Blitz of Announcements)
HM I never use multiple desktops and I don't understand why anyone would HM need to. I do use multiple *monitors*, because sometimes it's very Well, let me assure you there are some people that do understand that :) HM with the nethack readme is the third one on the top row. That's HM bad user interface. And multiple desktops would not change that. Actually, this has nothing to do with multiple desktops. This has to do with you having no adequate tools to manage them. I used desktop pager that showed window contents in... let me remember... 1998? 1999? A years ago, that is. I don't know if they are available now - I'm pretty sure they are, I just don't need them enough to change my environment - but they very well existed long before Apple invented them :) BTW, Mac's idea we can fit any number of applications on a tiny toolbar - and we mean *any* even if you have as much as four or five of them! doesn't appear that appealing to me. But that must be just my bad taste :) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Israeli DMCA looming?
EM Regarding the first one, I divide between patents that STOP EM technological advances (like LZW) and patents that HELP EM technological advances (like RSA). I don't agree that EVERYTHING Hm. Only difference I see is that the owner of the RSA was less greedy than owner of the LZW, but that difference does not lie in the field of patents but of owners. EM Maybe conflicts between patents and technology advances were caused EM because of non-professional staff of the patent office? Asking that, let's ask what kind of professionality is required from them? Should they be an experts in software knowing to the least detail every part of every program existing, for example? What would be requirements to professional patent office worker? Note that patent office is not exclusively software - they should also work on other things too. EM Maybe a better computerization will help the patent office EM reject patents that were prior arted by open technologies? It is pretty hard to know this - for this, detailed analysis of the functions of patented and potentially prior-art (meaning, just almost every other in the field) applications required. I fear for a patent office which is not really overbudgeted it is not actually feasible. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Israeli DMCA looming?
BC Well, I see no reason why the person reviewing the software BC patents shouldn't be an expert in programming (but not knowing BC every existing program, of course). He should be required to be BC an expert, else how can we entrust him to grant patents in this BC field? OK. Then let's see - first of all, there is no such thing as expert in programming - no more than expert in medicine - there are specialisations. So either patent office should have a staff of an university and more, or it should retain the services of external experts. Which means patent application is going to cost _a real lot_ of money and take a real lot of time to complete. Which is not exactly what the patents are meant for. BTW, even with this scheme nobody really guarantees that expert will do thorough work (after all, what means of control over him does the office have?) or that he will not just be bribed by the patent submitter. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FS/OS in schools: why don't *they* tell us what they want?
VV the best programming language? Is it widely used? Well, yes, it VV is, but will it be widely used in five years? I guess, yes. Last three times of five years nothing happened that made C irrelevant. What is going to happen in next five years that will? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FS/OS in schools: why don't *they* tell us what they want?
NH Anyway, if you consider C++ an extension of C, studying C first NH is time well spent. Of course, if the teacher will emphasise I think this is very wrong. C++ is not an extension of C, even though C++ syntax is an extension of C syntax. Teaching C++ as extension of C is a very wrong path to follow. Using C++ right requires very different state of thinking about programming tasks, and the similiarity of syntax does not change this a bit. I hold the strong opinion that the mindset is what makes the language and not the sequence of letters that allocates memory - this does not need to be even taught, this can be looked up in the reference guide in 5 minutes. This does not say C and C++ should not be studied - but they are different languages for different mindsets. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: C flame (was: FS/OS in schools)
HM Last time that I heard, in Ben-Gurion university, the first programming HM language was Java. That's a swell idea in my opinion. Java is HM feature-complete, you can't argue with that. It also means that students I can. Too many times I have heard from Java guys working next door phrases like This feature works starting with Java 1.x and saw This feature is deprecated. Also, Java is not exactly the most effective language (try doing integer array sorting on C and proper Java) and also it's interfaces with other languages are pretty arcane, especially for the beginner. HM hackers, I think it is extremely important to teach beginners to HM think object-oriented, even if all they'll ever use is an I don't know why OO is the single concept that needs to be taught before all. Imagine the guy is going to be a relational DBA - how OO is going to help him there? OO is an important concept, but it is not the only concept in existance. HM The basic stuff you need to teach people is algorithms and data HM structures. You want to save them from all the clutter around Hear, hear! And C is actually _better_ for teaching data structures, because you can _feel_ how these data structures work. In Java, a lot of things are masked by gc is going to make it for me and I don't need to know how hashes are working - I have standard class for that and I don't need to initialize - it will be null anyways. That's good sometimes for work - but for teaching, that's not always good. The same way as they make you to solve problems even though the answers are in the book - to make you not only know to use it, but know to understand it. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: C flame (was: FS/OS in schools)
AM and many other universities teach Scheme in their introduction
AM to CS classes. Scheme has garbage collection, no pointer
AM arithmetics, unboundedly
Well, I personally never understood how anybody can use, let alone like, a
language that has '(' and ')' as it's only syntax and I personally think
it's an assembler for people with twisted minds - so I cannot
wholehertedly support or even reasonably evaluate the usefulness of
teaching Scheme to the beginners.
AM (is that a word?) big integers/fractions. Heck, even arrays in
No big deal. My second (the first was Basic, obviously) programming
language was one that could easily calculate 100! without resorting to any
special algorithms or libraries. :) Actually, with existance of GNU GMP,
any language can do this now ;)
--
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phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR.
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Re: C flame (was: FS/OS in schools)
AM The main change since JDK1.1 was the clean and fairly complete AM Collections framework in JDK 1.2, but that's of course not a AM language change (although it's much more important than scrictfp AM or assert). It definitely is. Standard Java library is a part of Java language package, as well as libc is a part of C and STL is now, AFAIK, part of C++. Imagine you write program using new collections and intend to ship it to a client. What do you ask him? Do you have Java 1.1 or Java 1.2. That's the trick. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FS/OS in schools: why don't *they* tell us what they want?
Seriously - the average person in the street isn't aware about the alternatives. The standard costs the tax payers a lot of money and locks out the competition. This is what brought us to the current situation. Government decision that all schools should use OpenOffice would also cost the taxpayers (maybe less) and lock out the competition. The only visible difference is that we win and they lose. That's OK, but speaking in these terms and speaking about public benefit and freedom in the same time doesn't sit well. Microsoft seems to DO have the us vs. them mentality, as you put it. They They have to. Otherwise the shareholders would sue them :) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] BEOS IS ALIVE!!!!1!
GD with the RedHat 9), the Windows NT/2K/XP/2K3 has better security GD and scheduling (Though performance is impressive) Windows security is a funny thing. It is so good almost no one understands/uses it :) I mean, certainly, using it like it was intended. GD In short, the Win32API is impressive... but the OSs that use it GD are *not*. (Again being polite and all) I heard from someone once working in MS that it suffers from the same problem you just have outlined - bloat (a lot of unneeded things, duplication, etc.) and clumsyness. I, not being MS Internals pro, can not confirm or deny that, but I tend to believe. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Fwd: BSA Accuses OpenOffice ftp sites of piracy]
EB Whatever I think about IP laws, I can't escape the bare fact EB that KWord violates quite a few of them. When _I_ think about IP laws, I can't help thinking it is basically wrong to give people ownership of ideas. This concept have gone way too far. If someone discovered the fact that humans like menues on top of the text and not on the bottom - why he should own this fact? How at all one can own a fact? But leaving that aside - I do not believe Microsoft may make move as stupid as to claim unique ownership on common windows look-n-feel. In the meantime they always did exactly the opposite - promoted the common lf so that as many applications as possible would look similiar on windows. The reason, of course, is simple - to attract developers and users. Now, it would be very weird if any law would allow anyone to have MS-like lf as long as it runs on MS OS, but made the same code illegal as soon as it uses any other OS to load. Do you know about such a law? EB First and foremost, the fact that open source programmers see MS EB applications as a model to imitate. This applies for many GUI EB applications that we see lately: They smell MS without being MS. EB (GNOME KDE included) Well, Windows XP smells KDE without being KDE. Not that I like wither XP or KDE too much, but I can't help thinking of similiarity :) EB Linux and GNU has the vast advantage, that it doesn't have to be EB popular to survive, so we can do things the Right way. Why are Yeah, yeah. I know one project that does OS the right way for how long? Twenty years? Anybody used that OS? Anybody did something productive on it? Can I use it as my home OS? My workplace OS? Face the reality - to survive and prosper, the project *has* to have strong backup by either money or public - and it better to be both. EB And the other sad thing, is that Linux is risking its legitimate EB status by offending laws of intellectual property. And for no EB reason at all. If anyone is stupid enough to link Linux 'legitimate status', whatever this could be, to the fact that some program looks like some other program - I really could not care less what this dude thinks about Linux - or anything else, for that matter. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: egged.co.il works
NH Yes. Bank Leumi is the worst as far as I'm concerned. What is funny - once it was the best. But it looks like some greedy site-forge managers were in need of some cash so that they succeeded to convince BL people that they need to break perfectly working system and erect in its place another one that has exactly the same function with one difference - it uses a lot of weird Javascript (which, of course, makes it more expensive - if plain HTML page is $10, Javascript-enabled Web solution can be already a $100 or $500...) and doesn't work in many browsers. Win for the said site-forge, lose for us poor linuxers... -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Browsers, compatility, and price
NH I want every link in the page to be an HTML A HREF= What do you NH think will happen? They'll increase their price? I seriously doubt that. NH Their work will actually become easier! No, but it'd have to become cheaper! You can't anymore charge for sophisticated link direction system, only for plain HTML. And HTML is cheap and not a buzzword anymore. That's why flash front pages are so popular - you can charge for flash much more than for simple pictures with HTML links! NH are supposed to go out and see in the cinema), so if the people NH in charge there asked for cute features like sophisticated NH Javascripts - they completely didn't understand the job they NH were asked to do. Here you got to the root of the problem on the Israeli web design market. When the person responicble for the design of the major government or financial organisation says you the site is dull and suggests to add more colors and a couple of animations - all you can do is either go work in other business or think I'm going to have so much bad carma that I would be lucky to be a worm in the next life and go and do it and to hell with all freaks that would not like it. They don't pay your bills - the bored site manager does. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Fwd: BSA Accuses OpenOffice ftp sites of piracy]
SF Mac OS9 is one of the best UI out there for your grandma. OSX does a Maybe for grandma, I don't know, had no chance to ever teach my grandma computers... But as for me, the mac OS appeared to me first very much unusable. The concept of one application per system is rather confusing - where are the others? What happened to them? Oh, I have to look at that strange symbol on the screen to see them, thank you. The concept of one-button mouse that has click, double click, triple click and long click lacks only one brilliant idea - to remove the keyboard and replace it with the Morse key. To avoid confusing users with a lot of buttons, of course. And the magnificent modifier key with symbol on it that has no name and impossible to describe without waving your hands and making faces and saying phrases this thing that looks like whatever - you just will know it's it because there's nothing else like this. That's so that the imaginary grandma would have easier time - as we all know, grandmas are illiterate and couldn't read if on the key there would be actually some writing - so the designers decided to use the approach one sees in the kindergartens - you, Mike, put your closes where there's an apple, and you, Peter, put your closes where there's a dog. And to make life yet easier, they invent own symbols so that nobody could effectively communicate key sequences to strangers. And so on, and so on - if you catch me in a good moment, I can go on for a good hour on how the best GUI ever is only the best for one who was trained to use it for years but is outright confusing and weird to anyone looking from the outside. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bork, Bork, Bork!
IA Chillisoft attempted that (non-free), but the real answer comes from the IA industry itself, statistics shown by the Zend guy at the IBM conference IA (Doron whats-his-last-name) are that LAMP is much more popular on the Doron Gerstel. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: policy routing question
gk and where is the definition of your 'adsl' routing table? there is no If you mean for 'symbol' adsl - it's in /etc/iproute2/rt_tables. gk 'adsl routing table' by default. perhaps you forgot to add 'adsl' gk somewhere in the 'ip ro add' command? something like: gk gk ip ro add default table adsl via PPP-host dev ppp0 Yes, that's what I did. I mean, I did not forget - this is the command I used to set conditional default route. That's why packets went through ppp0 and not through global default. The problem is that the packets going in don't work as intended, only ones going out. gk ofcourse it does - after all, your default route for the default routing gk table is set to go via ppp0 - thus, _All_ your traffic will be going out No, it is not. The global default route is through eth0. Sorry for forgetting to mention it. gk via that interface. this, while the incoming data is defined to go gk according to routing table 'adsl', which was not defined. It is defined. That's why the packets go out through ppp0 - otherwise they would go out through eth0 - just as other ones which do not match firewall mark rule. I wish it was as simple as that... -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
policy routing question
I have rather strange problem with routing on Linux. The host in question is 2.2.19. It is connected to Frame Relay and ADSL (eth0 and ppp0 interfaces, accordingly). The intranet is on eth1, all connections outside are masqueraded. What I want to do is to make requests to port 80 go to ADSL and all other things got to FR. Manual suggest following setup: ipchains rule along the lines: ipchains -A input -s 10.0.0.0/8 80 -i eth1 -m 1 10.0.0.0/8 and eth1 being the intranet addresses and interface, and then iproute setup: ip ru add fwmark 1 lookup adsl ip ro add default via PPP-host dev ppp0 The problem is that the setup doesn't work, and in a very weird way. The packet from inside gets out through ppp0, as intended, gets MASQed, is sent out, the responce from the host comes in, goes through the input firewall chain, is accepted - and _disappears_. It does not come to the output chain. Somehow seems that the packet is not demasqueraded, though the entry in the masquerade table for this port/host exists. If I set up the unconditional route (i.e., not via the iproute2 table rules, but as host route or default route) - everything works OK. Packets travel through the firewall and masquerading without any problem. The tcpdump and firewall report look exactly the same as in the above case - but this time the return packet gets demasqueraded successfully and gets output to the intranet interface. If I switch back to conditional rule - return packets are disappearing again. Does anyone has any idea what might be the problem here? Does anyone has any experience with such setups (web connections go through one interface, all other connections go through another) - maybe I just went the wrong way? TIA, -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Multiple instances
MM 4. buy vmware MMPros: extended hardware simulation(scsi,...), multiple instance. MMCons: the host and guest distros are limited. ( I wanted to try MM debian,slackware) What's the problem to run Debian on Slack on vmware? I have run three different debians on vmware and had no problems ever. Don't know about slackware, but I see no problem either. If you need more than 3-4 OSes and you have the budget (note that you will also need more powerful machine if you intend to run X on guest machine) for VMware - I would definitely recommend this solution. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Net Loss of $100000000000 to AOL for 2002
OG It was a loss in one trading day. If you were to buy (the whole of) OG Intel in the morning and sell it in the evening you would have lost 91 OG billion dollars (wrong, of course - you would be a market maker for OG Intel then). Think what you may of stock prices, they reflect what OG the markets think of how much a company is worth, which is just about OG the only half-reasonable notion of value there is. I did not quite OG understand the they decided in what you wrote - they do not decide OG what their stock is worth. That is not what happened with AOL-TW. From my limited understanding of accounting what happened is that AOL-TW owns a number of other companies, like AOL per se, cable companies, etc., etc. Each of these companies has value (which in most cases to certains degree immaterial and given to various valuations and disagreement, as true value is only known when the thing is sold and that's only the value for that sale) that is represented in 'assets' in their balance sheets. Now let's suppose one of the companies lose its value, either because of stock fall or just because, for example, research that was considered as promising (and thus listed in 'assets') was declared as failed (and thus has zero value and has to be removed from 'assets'). The value of the 'assets' part of the balance sheet is decreased. Accordingly, the other part of balance sheet shoud decrease too, and the part where it decreases is 'revenue'. That's what happened to AOL-TW - it has to subtract from their assets about $45 last quarter and some serious sums on previous quarters, which even with positive operating revenues can lead to serious losses in the bottom line. That also means somewhere at the past some of these sums were probably listed as 'huge profits' of 'new economy dreadnought' and some managers once received fat bonuses for them :) Bottom line - these losses are not directly connected to AOL-TW stock prices, though in part may be consequences of price drops for various companies. P.S. IANAA(ccountant) ;) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: Net Loss of $100000000000 to AOL for 2002
gk btw, in israel, there is an attempt now to pass a decision that gk will force public copanies to value their holdings in other gk companies based on the stock price (its called Teken 15 by the gk people dealing with this) in order to avoid situations such as gk when Kur wrote E.C.I's value in its books, as being about 4 gk times their value in the stock market, after the change was not gk realy temporary. As I understood from casually reading Maariv yesteday by chance, this effort has mostly failed for now, but people interested in it do not intend to give up. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: spam mail filter
DH M!--lvPVVE--y n!--lvPVVE--am!--lvPVVE--e i!--lvPVVE--s Rimma,BR DH etc. etc. DH DH A dumb question. Do you take any measures against the sender of such a spam DH message like complaining to authorities ? No. As I mentioned, I have about 50 (low spam day) to 100 (spammer carnage day) spams per day. Complaining about each of them would take too much time, especially that most of the complaints, by my experience, in the best case would lead to closing spammer account - which is not a punishment even if it was the paid account, since the account price is anyway included in the spam distribution costs (and is about $10 anyway) and the spammer knows beforehand that the account will be closed. For free mail account, it doesn't even cost him a dime. Before you ask, no, I don't know the solution, so I do what I can - I protect myself. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: spam mail filter
DV OTOH, what we could do, is that after we confirm it's spam (my DV MUA simply files it automatically away. The folder is emptied DV with the trash folder), the mail could be forwarded to some DV central authority, for further use in making life hard for the DV originating spammers. Well, if there were such autority and it would be effective enough to be of any use and selective enough to distinguish between someone who I don't know sent me a spam and I subscribed to commercial mailing list but forgot about this and now I think it's a spam - it would be nice. But I personally doubt this is possible even in theory, let alone in practice. And I let alone the question of trust, which would inevitable arise - look at the spam blockers battles where whole networks landed in the blackhole lists just because somebody's egos and personal views on how to deal with spam clashed. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: spam mail filter
DH Are you kidding? this would - DH Of course, the problem is someone would have to BE this DH central authority, and we'd have to trust it not to misuse all of our DH addresses... DH DH What about spamcop: http://spamcop.net/ I once tried to understand how they are filtering the mail and what exactly are their procedures from both sides - i.e., what algorithms they use to filter mail? How can I configure it? What they do on spam complain (that one I know - they send mail something like 'someone reported your mail as spam' to the apparent source - which works like charm to annoy maintainers of legitimate commercial mailing lists and would not bother any hardcore spammer since they forge their headers or use throw-away accounts on ISPs with overloaded triple-automated abuse@ addresses)? How do they resolve conflicts and what is their position on various op-in/opt-out/double-opt-in issues? I could not find any information on this. Probably I didn't look hard enough - or they didn't work hard enough to make their info accessible. And without this info I don't see in them any added value to my personal filter. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: spam mail filter
EL what about that new statistical spam filter(using bassian alg) EL did anyone try it out? If you mean bayesian filters like bogofilter, I'm using it (bogofilter) at home and at work and so do a number of my colleaugues and the results are rather satisfying. The downside of the filter is that it requires training - it took me about a week to train it to level where I was satisfied, though it started to give tolerable results immediately, because I had large arvhives of both legitimate mail and spam (don't ask me why I was archiving spam, I don't really know, but it came handy). For now, it has no more than one-two false negatives per day (daily spam amount is about 50 to 100 items, daily mail amount about 400-500 mails) and usually not more than one false positive per day, which usually is non-routine mail (i.e., not from lists or people you are communicating with frequently) and something that 'looks like' spam (e.g., has a lot of HTML, 'spam' words, etc.). This means you still have to skim over the spam folder about once a day or to employ some additional mechanism. But I find the results of using bogofilter highly satisfying. However, this kind of filter seems to be rather for personal use - because if I would pass our sales/marketing communication through my database as it is now, a lot of legitimate mails would end up in 'spam' bin, since they talk exactly about the same things that many spams talk - prices, sales, discounts, commercial opportunity of your lifes, etc. So statistics of different person to what should be considered spam is very different and this filter has to be personally tuned. This makes it not very suitable to company-wide deployment, for example - though I see that on the bogofilter list people are talking about this and may come to some good solution. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: spam mail filter
DV you don't get non-spam html comments, eventually !-- and --! will be DV considered strong indicators to spam, and that's it, they're filtered. DV That the learning in the filter. Here I have an example - a spam looking like: M!--lvPVVE--y n!--lvPVVE--am!--lvPVVE--e i!--lvPVVE--s Rimma,BR etc. etc. just landed in my spam box today. My bogofilter spam filter killed it, I even don't know what exactly it didn't like. Maybe it was server name or HTML or from address or something else. The beauty of it is that I don't care - it did its job. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client
BA Discriminators are users. Customer (Leumi in this case) looking BA at Browser Statistics won't pay money on customization for BA Netscape+Mozilla. If you and all your friends will browse about I'm already paying money as BLL client. Part of these money is website budget. Just website users for some reason still do not account as customers that require service... Sad. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-50-624945/\ JRRT LotR. whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mozilla 0.9.2
IK See this bug for more info: IK http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=63054 Well, I guess people that want it should vote for this bug... -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mozilla 0.9.2
EL Actualy we don't owe them anything mozilla might has been a nice project EL but seriously. EL konqurer and opera are doing much better job Very debatable claim. EL opera might not be complitly free but it's the best linux browser I saw so EL far it doesn't crash at all it's VERY fast and it's not over massive work Well, s/doesn't crash/didn't crash for me/. Because I saw it crash many times. And Opera is by far not the best browser. It doesn't support non-english languages in any sane manner, for instance. This one is enough to rule out any serious use of it. Also, their DHTML support seems to be lacking - a lot of scripts that worked with Mozilla, MSIE Netscape do not work with Opera. Yet another reason to drop it. EL like konqurer (which comes as part of the basic kde, they really learn EL everything from ms) ro mozilla which has more and more useless modules EL while not even being able to handle simple web pages without crashing *bzzt* FUD alert! Which simple web page Mozilla can't handle without crashing? Could you quote Bugzilla bug number that you submitted for this crash? Also, s/useless/ones that I do not use/. Because, you know, there are some people that do use them. As for Konqueror, I tried it once. It misrendered so many pages I tried and also didn't have sane charset handling too. And last time I tried SSL wasn't working either. Maybe for browsing me and my pussy cat home pages it's OK, but for serious browsing it is way below the cutoff line. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mozilla 0.9.2
EL If asked I'm sure they would add that feature. Yeah, somewhere in this millennium. Thanks a lot, by this time my grandchildren will read it for me, so I would not care then. EL how about instead of saying opera lacking some features get EL people who would but it (yea paying it's not that evil you know) EL if they would add certain features, you would be suprised how EL fast it would happen and how bug free it would be yeah, yeah. I want to see this happening. How much should I pay to add normal charsets support (this is while I have perfect implementation in Mozilla for free?) Look how much of HTML 4 they do not support. Do you think nobody required them to support it? They just decided well, let's make this quick-n-dirty. That's their right, but claiming that they have best product on the market is a bit of overstatement. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MS prohibits licensees using open source as development tools?
MT the Windows MSIE used to suck bigtime as well. theyv'e got the corporate MT funding and manpower to improve it. and they will. I do not believe that. Solaris MSIE was proof of concept product. It had played it's purpose, there's no slightest reason to spend on it any more - it will never be as good as the real MSIE, since the real power of MSIE in is OS integration, component export and immediate availability. Nothing of this will work with Solaris MSIE. MT Probably a part of their .Net strategy, a transition to service MT providing. And dominating the *NIX web browser market it a Microsoft doesn't need Unix market to exist. The less products will work on Unix, the stronger will be the urge to move it to Windows. So simple. They just wanted to show that they can make it on Unix if they wanted. But I do not believe they want this market to flourish and to support it. And this has nothing to do with .net, .net is just DCOM-on-steroids, so if they wanted .net on Solaris, they would port the .net infrastructure, starting with Visual and bytecode tools, and not the browser. MT definite goal, since the browser is a key element in feeding MT people with the information of their choice. (i.e, the recently MT popular smart tags) Smart tags technology was available from various providers for years. I really don't understand this hype about it. Most people will turn it off, like infamous office paperclip, and those who will indeed find any use of it, will use it. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SSH
EL Hi, Is there any alternative program for SSH-win? and a free EL program? There's SecureCRT (not free) and there's some plugins to TeraTerm (don't remember if it's free). I saw once a free command-line client, but not a GUI one. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: MS prohibits licensees using open source as developmenttools?
I remember I saw it one, somehere... it's not a linux specific but There's a version of MSIE for Solaris - that's what they call MSIE for UNIX. I have yet to see one person that saw it (MSIE for Solaris) and doesn't think it sucks big time. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Vgames
OA True. also - a lot of scripts (which of course don't check for OA browser support other then document.all vs. document.layers) use OA document.all and no other IE specific extensions which isn't in OA the DOM. Well, these scripts are antic and will die out, as soon as Netscape 4 dies out. And, obvious, these scripts are outright broken since they ignore W3C standard. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Vgames
IK As to KHTML (used by Konq), it's much more forgiving than Mozilla. IK Heck, it implements a 'document.all' object (for IE compatibility)! If it implements full MSIE DOM (including all properties and methods ans stuff) it's cool. But somehow I doubt it. But if it does not, this only means they do a great disservice for the users, because now this browser is detected by all scripts as MSIE (while if it didn't support MSIE but did support W3C DOM, it would be detected as W3C DOM browser) and all scripts that have different versions for MSIE and W3C DOM (a lot of them) try now to use MSIE version and fail miserably. It's very bad to masquerade as supporting something unless you do support it 100%. Actually, if you support W3C DOM, you don't need any document.all's, since the former is the accepted standard, all current major browsers support it and all serious DHTML makers know about it and support it. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Vgames
TC Actually the latest news is that the newest nightly builds of mozilla TC /should/ contain bidi support compiled in (haven't tried it yet. just read TC a message in a newgroup). Does this mean there's a chance 0.9.[12] will have BiDi in? Can I already order wine and candies to celebrate? :) TC Netscape 4.x is indeed a problematic browser, with hebrew and with other TC issues. It has been under-developed for a couple of years now... Calling this pile of crap problematic browser is a great mercy to it. It never was out of beta. It's stability would make Microsoft BSOD division blush. It's standard compliance never existed. And it has blink tag. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Vgames
MR Unfortunately their site is rendered wrong in konqueror, but I'm MR not sure which side is buggy. I fear it's Konq. I saw a number of sites rendered OK with Mozilla but bad with Konq. Or Mozilla is very forgiving (which rises aquestion why Konq isn't), or Konq is buggy. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Another Semaphore question.
gk not terribly good portability, according to gk /usr/src/linux/Documentatino/mandatory.txt , for mandatory locks? gk advisory locks can be used, but then you only have a single such lock gk available per file. if you need to use several locks, you need to keep What? You sure should use advisory ones, for if you thought about semaphores, you are surely writing cooperative application. But advisory lock can be set one per each _byte_ of the file, not one per file. And since you are not limited by the filesize, this gives you, IIRC, about 4G of locks per file. Each lock, though, wastes certain amount of kernel memory, so you should not use all of them ;) gk several files open, and since there's a limit on file descriptors per gk process, this is not scaleable. Frankly, how many locks do you need? Thousands? Billions? Most probably two or three, really. gk well, i'm not sure that usage of locks performs any file I/O (after all, No, it does not. As for speed - this is very OS-dependant. I remember seeing some numbers in Stevens, but I don't remember what they told. IIRC, for Linux it's pretty much the same. gk and sometimes get traversed - thus, if you have many locks active on a gk single file, that'll be less efficient then using semaphores. Well, that's true - but really,, how many apps except databases (where semaphores are irrelevant anyway, since you need to lock real files) have more than ten locks? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Another Semaphore question.
OA I don't think its an option I have for the current OA implementation - it's file IO, and should be much slower, right OA ? Wrong. Record locking has nothing to do with file I/O - it is done entirely in memory. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Another Semaphore question.
OA I'll think about, but I don't think I'll change from semaphores just yet. OA I don't like the idea of creating temp files for locks, and I can't lock Actually, cleaning temp file is by far easier than cleaning semaphore. Especially if your app can be killed any moment. OA against an existing file, since I sometimes need to create several OA different locks in the same application, and w/o creating files, this OA mechanism would need to be way too complicated. Why? Create one file and lock bytes 1, 2 and 3. BTW, semaphores are much more scarce resource than files - they are system-wide and defaults are pretty low on them. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: virtual pc for pc
ML cares ?) each in its own VEnv on top of ME or 2000. Although the ML price on macs is 70 $ for a PC DOS version, VPC for PCs will ML cost... 299 $. I suppose the price tag will fall by the day. VMWare WS costs exactly $299. Coincidence? :) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Another Semaphore question.
This is not a PROBLEM but a FEATURE. All Sys-V IPC (semaphores, message queues, shared memory) outlive their creators. Wrong. Shared memory can be pre-deleted, so that it is removed when last process is detached. Just like files. Semaphores can not. In fact, there's no good way to insure that application cleans up its semaphores on exit. If you know one, you are more than welcome to share. However, semaphore aren't being used just for Mutual-Exclusion problems. A classical counter example is producer-consumer that aren't running continuously. Well, in fact in most cases sempahores are used for mutual exclusion or usage control (something like does anyone uses this resource or can I mess with it?). From my experience, file locks work way better in this case. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Another Semaphore question.
OA One more semaphore question if you please - if I create a semaphoer set, OA and then leave it lying around and exit the process - will it stay in the OA system when no current process uses it ? Yes. This is one of the problems with semaphores. BTW, why not using file locking instead of it? It has much cleaner and richer semantics and almost none of the problems semaphores have. OA If so - what does it take to clear it from the system : loging out ? going OA to runlevel 1 ? rebooting ? Or you do RMID operation on it (btw, you can RMID used semaphore too, so you will need to check if it's in use manually), or reboot. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Public NTP servers in Israel
OG Can anyone point me to a list of public NTP servers in Israel. A There's ntp.ac.il, and there are ntp.tau.ac.il, ntp.technion.ac.il and I guess more, most of them uses ntp.ac.il. I'm not sure about others, but ntp.ac.il is public. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Public NTP servers in Israel
AB timeserver.iix.net.il | ntp.iix.net.il| stratum 2 | public AB ntp.ilan.net.il| ntp.ac.il | stratum 0/1 | only stratum 2 AB servers Seems that ntp.ac.il still allows connection to everybody. But then it's better to use timeserver.iix.net.il. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: bezeqint customers should now be able to access ftp.cs.huji.il
ABThis thread is a bit moot. TAU's policy stands, and that is AB what we require for the free service we provide. That's what I thought it is, right? We do it because we can, not because it has any reason behind it... Well, you in are your own right, and nobody will sue you because he's denied your service - as you rightly pointed out, it's free and no contractual relationship exists between users and TAU. But why some people on the list try to convince me it's done because of security reasons? I see no single security reason, I see two reasons here: it's our policy, and we are not going to change it and we can do it, so we do. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: bezeqint customers should now be able to access ftp.cs.huji.il
YR I believe you're missing a crucial point. I believe that YR wu-ftpd does not only verify that a certain IP address has a PTR YR record, but it also ensures that the PTR's respective A record YR is identical to the original IP address. The previous statement So? That's why I wrote If I also own harder.com, you will never know what happens. If I control both PTR and A records, I can match them on whatever values I want. And, contrary to IP, these values don't have to be meaningful - they just have to end on registered domain name - which I control, so all your complaints you will be sending to the same person that is responsible for your problems. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: bezeqint customers should now be able to access ftp.cs.huji.il
SK 530- It seems your IP address isn't properly registered in SK 530-the DNS - You must allow reverse DNS lookups. What I can't get in this story - what is the meaning of this restriction? Like, what for do you need reverse DNS? What it gives to you? Just to show that you are security-tough guy or has it any practical meaning? If so, what meaning? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: bezeqint customers should now be able to access ftp.cs.huji.il
YR It provides a better audit trail. It is trivial to setup PTR records, and Just how better? Why PTR (which can be easily faked) is better than IP, which determines uniquely the offending host? As for triviality, many things are trivial to do and yet it is not the reason to require people to do them. YR DNS admins should be clued enough to know that their configuration must be YR consistent. When all IP addresses have PTR records the admin can determine YR more quickly the possibly offending ISP. Yes, I know, I could query RIPE, That's bull. For a small pay I can talk my ISP into giving control of PTR to my hands. Then I can setup my DNS to resolve all my IPs into fsck.me.harder.com and now go and determine my ISP from that. If I was smart enough to register harder.com on myself, you will never know who I am from DNS records. On the contrary, IP blocks are assigned to ISPs and by IP you _can_ determine my ISP very fast and efficiently. YR but registrant information may not always lead to the desired person. It will at least _always_ lead to my ISP, and at ISP, if it's cooperative, you will find out who has bought the IP. If ISP is incooperative, reverse DNS won't help you a bit anyway. They could just make reverse DNS to be copy of the IP (most dialup providers do that, so you get 1.2.3.4.provider.net as reverse for 1.2.3.4) and you are back to square one. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Zope programmer STILL needed.
NSC On one hand you're holding the flag of open source and free NSC code. And on the other hand, you're saying that uithout 300 NSC shekels an hour, you're not gonna get off your ass. You sound NSC alot more like a Microsoft developer than a Linux developer. That's bull. If you ask somebody to participate in OSS initiative, that's one thing. If you ask somebody to be a paid employee, that's another thing. I can donate some of my valuable time to worthy cause, like writing OSS software, on the terms that I can do it whenever I want and whatever I want and leave any moment. But that in no way means I want to work (be employed) for free or will work on the wage that I consider not enough compensation for my efforts. When I'm employed, I enter contractual relationship and take on myself some responsibilities. It has nothing to do with the fact that my employer gives away the product. Microsoft gives away MSIE too, so do you expect MSIE team to have their wages halved because of that? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Where is Marc's differential SCSI cable? (was: Re: Counterproductive posts.)
OZ There is a separate mailing list for newbie questions, and the regular OZ Linux-IL subscribers' time is too precious for clueless newbie questions. Franskly speaking, I'm freaking stunned such a topic is discussed on the list at such length, and with such an arguments. First, is this Linux-IL or il.linux.personal.attitudes.suck.suck.suck? Shoud there be talking about Linux or about attitudes of list members? This applies to me too (self-LART will be deployed), obviously, but sometimes one just can't help doing the wrong thing... Second, if you time is so precious, why you do read and answer the list, especially those silly newbie questions? If you have time to teach clueless newbie his manners, your time is obviously not so scarce as you try to make everybody believe. And if you have time to discuss such topics on the list, you probably just wasting your time this very moment. OZ clueless newbies and those who respect the oldtimers' time - must be OZ re-fought. :-( Here I clearly refuse to respect anyone based solely on the time of the subscribtion on the list, or time of the first knowledge about any particular software or any particular matter at all. To earn respect, one needs more valuable basis that having list-uptime of years. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: php IDE.
EB Just started to write PHP and I cant find an IDE which EB will give me good debugging capabilities (step, break EB points ). EB EB Anybody can recommend one to me ? Zend IDE, but it's not free. There's also a free one, which claims to support debugging (nexus?), but I don't know how good is it. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: SUSE 7.1
NM It's wrong because that's not the idea of linux, it ment to be a free NM software. Let's get it straight. Let's compare - how many hours of work did you invest in Linux (as OS, trademark, concept, etc.) and how many SuSE people did? After you make the balance, think again if you have any right on the Earth to ask anything for free from SuSE or tell them what to do. They are not your slaves to work for you for free. If they give _anything_ to you for free, you should say "thank you", if they do not, you should say "oh, I have to earn more money and buy it". Or just download Linux kernel from kernel.org for free and start there. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] \/ There shall be counsels taken Stanislav Malyshev /\ Stronger than Morgul-spells phone +972-3-9316425/\ JRRT LotR. http://sharat.co.il/frodo/ whois:!SM8333 = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
